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england_n world_n year_n young_a 193 4 6.4399 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A04474 A replie vnto M. Hardinges ansvveare by perusinge whereof the discrete, and diligent reader may easily see, the weake, and vnstable groundes of the Romaine religion, whiche of late hath beene accompted Catholique. By Iohn Iewel Bishoppe of Sarisburie. Jewel, John, 1522-1571.; Harding, Thomas, 1516-1572. Answere to Maister Juelles chalenge. 1565 (1565) STC 14606; ESTC S112269 1,001,908 682

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divise_v but_o this_o name_n be_v confirm_v and_o stablissh_v in_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a therefore_o m._n hardinge_n as_o well_o herein_o as_o also_o else_o where_o have_v report_v untruthe_n as_o for_o transubstantiation_n est_fw-la it_o be_v number_v here_o emonge_o these_o word_n homousios_n humanatio_n and_o incarnatio_fw-la as_o judas_n be_v number_v emonge_o the_o apostle_n god_n wot_v a_o very_a young_a name_n new_o bring_v at_o last_o into_o the_o world_n about_o twelve_o hundred_o year_n after_o the_o birth_n of_o christ_n at_o what_o time_n king_n john_n be_v king_n of_o england_n neither_o have_v it_o any_o manner_n face_n or_o fundation_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n yet_o be_v the_o same_o name_n give_v a_o long_a while_n before_o any_o such_o child_n be_v thorough_o bear_v for_o as_o it_o appear_v by_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n the_o east_n church_n of_o graecia_n ultim●_n and_o asia_n receive_v it_o not_o nor_o never_o will_v receive_v it_o until_o this_o 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etc._n etc._n he_o speak_v unto_o the_o sacrament_n as_o if_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n endue_v with_o sense_n and_o life_n and_o well_o for_o so_o gregory_n the_o great_a divine_a saithe_n o_o magnum_fw-la &_o sanctum_fw-la pascha_fw-la o_o great_a and_o holy_a passeover_n for_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n as_o he_o be_v our_o passeover_n so_o be_v he_o that_o holy_a mystery_n and_o unto_o he_o the_o bishop_n direct_v his_o speech_n unto_o he_o be_v in_o heaven_n not_o unto_o the_o thing_n that_o present_o lie_v before_o he_o upon_o the_o table_n and_o that_o this_o be_v dionysius_n very_a meaning_n it_o appear_v by_o that_o immediate_o go_v before_o ingrediamur_fw-la ab_fw-la effectis_fw-la ad_fw-la causas_fw-la let_v we_o enter_v from_o these_o outward_a effect_n into_o the_o cause_n that_o be_v to_o say_v let_v we_o withdraw_v our_o eye_n from_o the_o visible_a sacrament_n and_o spiritual_o let_v we_o behold_v christ_n who_o sacrament_n they_o be_v and_o who_o by_o the_o same_o be_v 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that_o be_v promise_v unto_o i_o of_o my_o lord_n receive_v thou_o i_o o_o thou_o choose_a cross_n that_o be_o thus_o humble_a for_o my_o god_n and_o help_v the_o poor_a servant_n unto_o his_o master_n here_o be_v plain_a word_n of_o invocation_n here_o be_v manifest_a adoration_n yet_o may_v the_o force_n of_o these_o word_n make_v we_o believe_v that_o s._n andrew_n in_o deed_n give_v godly_a honour_n to_o a_o cross_n of_o tree_n but_o because_o m._n hardinge_n seem_v to_o make_v some_o account_n of_o this_o place_n of_o dionysius_n let_v we_o answer_v one_o mystery_n by_o a_o other_o s._n ambrose_n speak_v thus_o to_o the_o water_n of_o baptism_n 22._o o_o aqua_fw-la quae_fw-la humano_fw-la aspersum_fw-la sanguine_fw-la etc._n etc._n o_o thou_o water_n that_o have_v wash_v the_o world_n stain_v with_o man_n blood_n o_o thou_o water_n that_o deserue_v to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n thou_o begin_v thou_o fulfille_v the_o perfect_a mystery_n etc._n
his_o geography_n that_o where_o as_o there_o be_v then_o sixteen_o sundry_a nation_n in_o asia_n the_o less_o three_o only_a of_o they_o be_v greek_n and_o the_o rest_n barbarous_a i_o know_v not_o whether_o m._n hardinge_n be_v unwittinge_o deceive_v himself_o or_o wilful_o go_v about_o to_o deceive_v other_o but_o well_o i_o know_v that_o this_o be_v no_o part_n of_o straboes_n meaning_n for_o strabo_n 14._o speak_v not_o this_o of_o his_o own_o time_n but_o of_o the_o time_n of_o ephorus_n that_o live_v well_o near_o five_o hundred_o year_n before_o he_o this_o ephorus_n report_v that_o in_o his_o time_n there_o be_v but_o three_o greek_a nation_n as_o yet_o enter_v into_o asia_n but_o all_o the_o rest_n than_o be_v barbarous_a and_o therefore_o apollodorus_n say_v that_o before_o the_o battle_n of_o troy_n no_o people_n of_o the_o greek_n at_o all_o ever_o come_v over_o to_o dwell_v there_o for_o if_o strabo_n have_v mean_v this_o of_o his_o own_o time_n to_o what_o end_n shall_v 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that_o only_o three_o nation_n be_v right_o call_v greek_n and_o that_o the_o rest_n be_v of_o the_o barbarien_n in_o that_o he_o saithe_v proditur_fw-la it_o be_v write_v he_o mean_v by_o ephorus_n apollodorus_n or_o such_o other_o as_o have_v live_v long_o before_o in_o that_o he_o saithe_v caeteras_fw-la barbarorum_fw-la esse_fw-la the_o reaste_n be_v of_o the_o barbariens_n he_o mean_v that_o they_o have_v arrive_v thither_o not_o out_o of_o graecia_n as_o have_v the_o other_o three_o but_o out_o of_o other_o country_n that_o be_v barbarous_a but_o in_o that_o he_o saithe_v tres_fw-la tantùm_fw-la gentes_fw-la graecas_fw-la jure_fw-la dici_fw-la that_o only_o three_o nation_n be_v right_o or_o natural_o call_v greek_n he_o must_v needs_o mean_v that_o the_o rest_n be_v call_v greek_n also_o although_o not_o so_o right_o and_o natural_o as_o the_o other_o for_o else_o the_o exception_n of_o this_o word_n jure_fw-la that_o be_v right_o or_o natural_o have_v be_v in_o vain_a and_o 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accipere_fw-la debemus_fw-la qui_fw-la mal●_n graeca_n pronuntiant_fw-la we_o take_v a_o barbarismus_fw-la or_o a_o barbarous_a manner_n of_o speech_n to_o be_v in_o they_o that_o speak_v the_o greek_a disorderly_a and_o not_o in_o they_o that_o speak_v a_o strange_a tongue_n as_o be_v the_o tongue_n of_o the_o carians_n so_o we_o ought_v to_o take_v they_o to_o be_v barbarous_a or_o man_n of_o barbarous_a speech_n that_o be_v favored_o pronounce_v the_o greek_a thou_o may_v see_v good_a reader_n with_o what_o ●aithe_v m._n hardinge_n allege_v the_o authority_n of_o old_a writer_n he_o will_v prove_v by_o strabo_n that_o these_o people_n speak_v no_o greek_a because_o they_o be_v barbarous_a and_o strabo_n himself_o saithe_v not_o withstand_v they_o be_v barbarous_a yet_o they_o speak_v greek_a now_o therefore_o seeinge_v the_o syllogismus_fw-la syllogism_n itself_o as_o i_o have_v say_v be_v a_o fallace_n the_o mayor_n false_a the_o minor_a false_a and_o neither_o of_o they_o any_o 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orient_a to_o speak_v the_o greek_a tongue_n ergo_fw-la the_o service_n in_o greek_a to_o they_o be_v not_o strange_a and_o unknowen_a to_o this_o i_o answer_v s._n hierome_n mean_v that_o some_o of_o all_o country_n of_o the_o orient_a or_o easte_n speak_v greeke_n as_o the_o learned_a man_n gentle_a man_n merchaunte_n all_o of_o liberal_a education_n and_o such_o other_o as_o have_v cause_n to_o travail_v those_o country_n to_o be_v short_a it_o be_v without_o doubt_n very_o common_a as_o be_v their_o only_a learned_a tongue_n for_o all_o science_n and_o the_o tongue_n that_o may_v best_a serve_v to_o travail_v withal_o from_o country_n to_o country_n within_o the_o east_n right_o so_o as_o the_o latin_a tongue_n serve_v to_o the_o like_o intentes_fw-la for_o all_o nation_n of_o the_o weaste_n and_o he_o mean_v not_o that_o all_o and_o singular_a personne_n of_o what_o degree_n and_o condition_n so_o ever_o they_o be_v all_o uplandishe_v people_n tiller_n of_o the_o ground_n herdsman_n and_o woman_n speak_v greeke_n for_o if_o it_o have_v be_v so_o then_o have_v they_o not_o have_v peculiar_a and_o proper_a tongue_n for_o it_o be_v not_o for_o their_o simple_a head_n for_o the_o most_o part_n to_o bear_v away_o two_o language_n in_o that_o s._n hierome_n call_v the_o galathians_n tongue_n propriam_fw-la linguam_fw-la a_o proper_a and_o a_o peculiar_a tongue_n to_o that_o nation_n he_o do_v we_o to_o understande_v the_o same_o to_o perteine_v to_o all_o in_o particular_a that_o be_v to_o every_o one_o of_o that_o province_n and_o the_o greek_a to_o all_o in_o general_n in_o respect_n of_o other_o nation_n there_o so_o as_o not_o of_o necessity_n it_o be_v understand_v of_o every_o one_o the_o b._n of_o sarisburie_n m._n hardinge_n over_o much_o pain_v himself_o to_o prove_v that_o thing_n that_o no_o wise_a man_n will_v deny_v he_o for_o how_o can_v it_o seem_v likely_a that_o the_o whole_a easte_n which_o be_v in_o a_o manner_n the_o one_o half_a part_n of_o the_o world_n conteininge_v so_o many_o and_o so_o sundry_a nation_n shall_v speak_v all_o one_o tongue_n seeinge_v we_o ourselves_o in_o this_o one_o little_a kingdom_n of_o england_n have_v the_o use_n of_o five_o tongue_n and_o not_o one_o of_o they_o understand_v a_o other_o i_o marvel_v that_o m._n hardinge_n allege_v not_o the_o fable_n of_o herodotus_n herodotus_n that_o bek_n in_o the_o phrygian_n tongue_n signify_v bread_n kiki_n in_o the_o egyptian_n tongue_n a_o ointment_n achmach_n one_o of_o the_o guard_n or_o alila_n or_o vrotal_a in_o the_o arabike_a tongue_n and_o such_o like_a for_o these_o may_v have_v stand_v he_o in_o steed_n of_o good_a proof_n that_o all_o the_o nation_n of_o the_o whole_a east_n part_n of_o the_o world_n speak_v not_o greek_a and_o although_o we_o agree_v with_o he_o in_o the_o principal_a that_o in_o the_o easte_n part_n be_v use_v sundry_a language_n and_o likewise_o that_o the_o greek_a tongue_n be_v common_o use_v emonge_n the_o learned_a yet_o his_o distinction_n of_o all_o in_o general_n
29._o the_o word_n of_o god_n woork_v in_o our_o heart_n non_fw-la quia_fw-la dicitur_fw-la sed_fw-la quia_fw-la creditur_fw-la not_o because_o it_o be_v speak_v but_o because_o it_o be_v believe_v likewise_o saithe_v s._n basile_n non_fw-la qui_fw-la ore_fw-la profert_fw-la verba_fw-la psalmi_n psallit_fw-la domino_fw-la sed_fw-la quicunque_fw-la de_fw-la puro_fw-la cord_n proferunt_fw-la psalmodiam_n he_o sing_v not_o unto_o the_o lord_n that_o utter_v the_o word_n of_o the_o psalm_n but_o they_o that_o from_o a_o pure_a heart_n pronounce_v the_o psalmody_n likewise_o origen_n 25._o fiduciam_fw-la habet_fw-la ad_fw-la deum_fw-la non_fw-la propter_fw-la verba_fw-la orationis_fw-la vel_fw-la psalmi_n quamuis_fw-la videantur_fw-la bene_fw-la composita_fw-la &_o the_o scripture_n electa_fw-la sed_fw-la quia_fw-la altar_n cordis_fw-la svi_fw-la bene_fw-la construxit_fw-la he_o that_o pray_v have_v trust_v in_o god_n not_o for_o the_o word_n of_o his_o prayer_n or_o of_o the_o psalm_n although_o they_o seem_v to_o be_v well_o make_v and_o choose_v out_o of_o the_o scripture_n but_o because_o he_o have_v well_o make_v up_o the_o aultare_fw-la of_o his_o heart_n this_o be_v origens_n whole_a and_o only_a purpose_n he_o exhort_v not_o the_o people_n to_o hear_v service_n in_o a_o strange_a language_n neither_o be_v m._n harding_n able_a to_o show_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o service_n in_o the_o whole_a church_n of_o god_n either_o then_o in_o origens_n time_n or_o within_o four_o hundred_o year_n after_o he_o only_o he_o encourage_v the_o people_n to_o read_v the_o scripture_n yea_o although_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o reatche_v the_o bottom_n of_o they_o as_o it_o plain_o appear_v by_o his_o own_o word_n folowinge_v in_o scripture_n sanctis_fw-la est_fw-la vis_fw-la quaedam_fw-la quae_fw-la legenti_fw-la etiam_fw-la sine_fw-la explanatione_fw-la sufficiat_fw-la in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n there_o be_v a_o certain_a virtue_n sufficient_a for_o the_o reader_n yea_o although_o they_o be_v not_o expound_v and_o therefore_o he_o allege_v these_o word_n of_o s._n paul_n 14._o my_o spirit_n pray_v but_o my_o sense_n be_v without_o fruit_n not_o to_o warrant_v m._n hardinge_n strange_a order_n of_o prayer_n which_o neither_o s._n paul_n nor_o origen_n himself_o ever_o know_v but_o only_o to_o show_v that_o as_o god_n of_o his_o mercy_n healp_v our_o weakness_n in_o praieinge_v so_o likewise_o in_o read_n the_o scripture_n he_o healp_v our_o weakness_n in_o understand_v s._n paul_n saithe_v 8._o quid_fw-la oremus_fw-la quemadmodum_fw-la oporteat_fw-la nescimus_fw-la sed_fw-la ipse_fw-la spiritus_fw-la postulat_fw-la pro_fw-la nobis_fw-la gemitibus_fw-la inenarrabilibus_fw-la we_o know_v not_o what_o to_o pray_v as_o it_o be_v meet_v for_o we_o to_o pray_v but_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n intreat_v for_o we_o with_o sigh_n that_o can_v be_v express_v thus_o saithe_n origen_n the_o angel_n of_o god_n delight_n to_o see_v we_o praieinge_v thus_o they_o delight_v to_o see_v we_o read_n but_o if_o they_o delight_v only_o to_o see_v we_o pray_v or_o hear_v in_o a_o strange_a tongue_n we_o know_v not_o what_o as_o m._n hardinge_n will_v gather_v then_o be_v they_o the_o angel_n of_o darkness_n and_o not_o of_o god_n out_o of_o this_o place_n of_o origen_n m._n hardinge_n geather_v these_o reason_n the_o angel_n be_v delit_v to_o hear_v we_o read_v or_o pray_v although_o we_o of_o our_o weakness_n know_v not_o thorough_o what_o we_o speak_v ergo_fw-la the_o people_n in_o origens_n time_n have_v the_o common_a service_n in_o a_o strange_a tongue_n the_o error_n or_o fraud_n hereof_o may_v the_o better_o appear_v by_o that_o i_o have_v before_o declare_v it_o be_v call_v fallacia_fw-la ab_fw-la amphibologia_fw-la that_o be_v of_o the_o doubteful_a take_n of_o one_o word_n for_o this_o word_n understanding_n have_v two_o signification_n for_o we_o understande_v the_o word_n &_o we_o understande_v the_o meaning_n of_o the_o word_n origen_n saithe_v the_o people_n understand_v not_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n ergo_fw-la saithe_n m._n hardinge_n they_o understand_v not_o the_o word_n of_o the_o scripture_n again_o origen_n saithe_v they_o have_v no_o full_a and_o perfect_a understand_v ergo_fw-la saithe_n m._n hardinge_n they_o have_v no_o understand_v at_o al._n and_o therein_o stand_v the_o falseheade_n of_o his_o argument_n and_o again_o the_o word_n that_o origen_n write_v of_o read_v the_o scripture_n m._n hardinge_n appli_v the_o same_o to_o the_o common_a service_n and_o so_o violent_o and_o perforce_o alter_v and_o deprave_v origens_n meaning_n and_o conclude_v one_o thing_n for_o a_o other_o and_o thus_o this_o good_a father_n be_v draw_v in_o to_o prove_v that_o thing_n that_o he_o never_o neither_o know_v nor_o do_v nor_o will_v to_o be_v do_v m._n hardinge_n the_o .34_o division_n i_o trust_v wise_a godly_a and_o steadfast_a man_n who_o be_v not_o carry_v about_o with_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n will_v be_v move_v more_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o origen_n a_o man_n always_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o christian_a world_n account_v most_o excellent_o learn_v then_o with_o the_o scorninge_n of_o caluine_n who_o speak_v of_o the_o ancient_a latin_a service_n use_v in_o england_n and_o france_n saithe_v institutionib_n ad_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la ex_fw-la sono_fw-la non_fw-la intellecto_fw-la nullus_fw-la penitus_fw-la fructus_fw-la redit_fw-la that_o of_o the_o sound_n not_o understand_v no_o fruit_n at_o all_o return_v to_o the_o church_n usinge_v that_o word_n of_o despite_n that_o may_v better_o be_v speak_v by_o a_o mynstrel_n of_o his_o pipe_n and_o taburret_n then_o by_o a_o preacher_n of_o the_o divine_a service_n neither_o hereof_o with_o any_o mild_a spirit_n speak_v his_o disciple_n and_o subminister_v theodore_n beza_n the_o hot_a minister_n of_o the_o deform_a church_n of_o france_n 16._o quaecunque_fw-la preces_fw-la ab_fw-la aliquo_fw-la concipiuntur_fw-la eo_fw-la idiomate_fw-la quod_fw-la ipse_fw-la non_fw-la intelligat_fw-la pro_fw-la dei_fw-la ludibrio_fw-la sunt_fw-la habendae_fw-la what_o prayer_n so_o ever_o be_v make_v saithe_v he_o of_o any_o man_n in_o a_o tongue_n that_o he_o understand_v not_o they_o be_v to_o be_v take_v for_o a_o mockery_n of_o god_n who_o so_o ever_o here_o allow_v caluine_n and_o beza_n condemn_v of_o the_o church_n must_v condemn_v origen_n for_o this_o point_n never_o reprove_v or_o toutch_v of_o any_o that_o have_v not_o spare_v he_o where_o so_o ever_o they_o can_v charge_v he_o with_o any_o error_n if_o all_o prayer_n make_v in_o a_o unknowen_a tongue_n be_v a_o mock_n of_o god_n as_o beza_n saithe_v then_o be_v the_o prayer_n utter_v by_o miracle_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n with_o tongue_n which_o the_o utterer_n themselves_o understand_v not_o after_o the_o mind_n of_o chrysostome_n a_o mock_v of_o god_n for_o i_o see_v nothing_o whereby_o they_o be_v exclude_v from_o his_o 87_o report_v general_a saieinge_v and_o universal_a proposition_n very_o this_o teachinge_a of_o beza_n be_v not_o sound_v i_o ween_v if_o he_o be_v out_o of_o the_o protection_n of_o his_o deform_a church_n and_o convent_v before_o a_o catholic_a bishop_n to_o geve_v a_o account_n of_o this_o doctrine_n he_o will_v step_v back_o and_o revoke_v that_o rasshe_n saieinge_v again_o for_o else_o he_o shall_v seem_v to_o grant_n that_o god_n give_v at_o the_o begin_v of_o the_o church_n the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n to_o be_v mockte_v withal_o which_o be_v very_o absurd_a and_o blasphemous_a s._n paul_n wish_v that_o all_o the_o corinthian_n speak_v with_o tongue_n but_o rather_o that_o they_o prophesy_v the_o b._n of_o sarisburie_n i_o marvel_v much_o what_o soundenesse_n of_o doctrine_n m._n hardinge_n can_v mean_v have_v thus_o take_v upon_o he_o to_o be_v the_o proctor_n of_o ignorance_n or_o how_o he_o can_v well_o commend_v other_o for_o constancy_n and_o steadfastness_n find_v himself_o with_o so_o light_o wind_v so_o often_o remove_v or_o wherefore_o he_o shall_v so_o high_o commend_v that_o old_a father_n origen_n at_o who_o hand_n he_o find_v so_o small_a relief_n that_o he_o thus_o bitter_o charge_v that_o godly_a learned_a father_n john_n caluine_n for_o saieinge_v thus_o of_o the_o unknowen_a service_n there_o redound_v no_o manner_n profit_v unto_o the_o church_n 3._o it_o toutch_v many_o other_o more_o &_o not_o he_o only_o s._n augustine_n saithe_v thus_o si_fw-mi moses_n mihi_fw-la haebraea_n voce_fw-la loqueretur_fw-la frustrà_fw-la pulsaret_fw-la sensum_fw-la meum_fw-la nec_fw-la inde_fw-la mentem_fw-la meam_fw-la quicquam_fw-la tangeret_fw-la if_o moses_n shall_v speak_v unto_o i_o in_o the_o hebrew_n tongue_n for_o that_o i_o understande_v it_o not_o he_o shall_v beat_v my_o sense_n in_o vain_a neither_o shall_v there_o any_o thing_n thereof_o enter_v into_o my_o mind_n s._n chrysostome_n saithe_v 35._o nisi_fw-la dixero_fw-la quod_fw-la percipi_fw-la facilè_fw-la clareque_fw-la à_fw-la vobis_fw-la possit_fw-la sed_fw-la linguarum_fw-la munere_fw-la praeditum_fw-la i_o esse_fw-la tantùm_fw-la ostendam_fw-la