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england_n work_n write_v writer_n 54 3 7.4035 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A09103 A discussion of the ansvvere of M. VVilliam Barlovv, D. of Diuinity, to the booke intituled: The iudgment of a Catholike Englishman liuing in banishment for his religion &c. Concerning the apology of the new Oath of allegiance. VVritten by the R. Father, F. Robert Persons of the Society of Iesus. VVhervnto since the said Fathers death, is annexed a generall preface, laying open the insufficiency, rayling, lying, and other misdemeanour of M. Barlow in his writing. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610.; Coffin, Edward, 1571-1626. 1612 (1612) STC 19409; ESTC S114157 504,337 690

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3._o pag._n 524._o a_o examination_n of_o certain_a sentence_n and_o authority_n of_o ancient_a father_n allege_v by_o cardinal_n bellarmine_n in_o his_o letter_n to_o m._n blackwell_n and_o impugn_a by_o m._n barlow_n chap._n vi_o pag._n 536._o the_o preface_n to_o the_o reader_n in_o which_o be_v lay_v open_a some_o few_o example_n of_o the_o singular_a ignorance_n lie_v and_o other_o bad_a deal_n of_o m._n barlow_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o apology_n three_o thing_n gentle_a reader_n at_o the_o come_n forth_o of_o this_o book_n may_v occur_v unto_o thy_o mind_n in_o which_o thou_o may_v perhaps_o desire_v some_o satisfaction_n first_o the_o cause_n why_o so_o idle_a a_o work_n as_o m._n barlowes_n answer_n be_v know_v and_o take_v to_o be_v shall_v be_v answer_v at_o all_o by_o so_o grave_a and_o learn_v a_o man_n as_o f._n person_n be_v second_o why_o this_o answer_n be_v publish_v so_o late_o after_o his_o death_n and_o last_o of_o all_o what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v have_v of_o m._n barlowes_n talent_n learning_n &_o method_n in_o answer_v or_o what_o other_o hear_v do_v judge_v of_o the_o same_o satisfaction_n and_o albeit_o this_o latter_a may_v seem_v to_o some_o to_o be_v of_o least_o moment_n for_o that_o one_o adversary_n most_o common_o will_v hold_v a_o other_o write_v in_o high_a contempt_n and_o therefore_o from_o they_o so_o much_o interest_v no_o sound_a judgement_n may_v be_v expect_v yet_o do_v i_o think_v it_o very_o necessary_a to_o insist_v most_o thereon_o or_o rather_o be_o force_v to_o the_o same_o for_o that_o m._n barlow_n be_v so_o desirous_a of_o honour_n as_o like_o the_o ape_n he_o think_v his_o own_o whelp_n fair_a and_o himself_o will_v needs_o persuade_v his_o majesty_n that_o he_o have_v so_o answer_v as_o that_o no_o sound_a reply_n can_v ever_o be_v make_v thereunto_o wherefore_o as_o well_o for_o thy_o instruction_n good_a reader_n as_o also_o to_o rectify_v m._n barlowes_n judgement_n which_o in_o this_o seem_v to_o be_v very_o erroneous_a and_o to_o teach_v he_o to_o examine_v his_o conscience_n better_a before_o he_o presume_v again_o so_o far_o as_o either_o to_o promise_v to_o a_o prince_n or_o put_v forth_o in_o print_n i_o shall_v set_v down_o my_o opinion_n &_o worth_n of_o his_o book_n and_o that_o upon_o no_o other_o ground_n than_o i_o shall_v produce_v out_o of_o the_o book_n itself_o whereby_o thou_o shall_v have_v more_o light_a to_o discern_v in_o this_o affair_n between_o we_o and_o m._n barlow_n less_o cause_n to_o complain_v of_o any_o hard_a measure_n see_v that_o against_o m._n barlow_n non●_n be_v bring_v to_o plead_v but_o m._n barlow_n himself_o 2._o to_o the_o first_o point_n then_o this_o brief_o i_o answer_v that_o f._n person_n have_v see_v the_o base_a manner_n &_o method_n of_o write_v which_o m._n barlow_n hould_v through_o his_o whole_a book_n person_n esteem_v the_o work_n not_o worthy_a of_o any_o answer_n and_o so_o resolve_v with_o himself_o to_o be_v silent_a therein_o and_o in_o lieu_n of_o refute_v this_o answer_n to_o set_v forth_o the_o other_o two_o part_n of_o resolution_n so_o long_o before_o promise_v by_o he_o and_o so_o much_o desire_v of_o the_o catholic_n in_o england_n which_o while_o he_o go_v about_o to_o do_v a_o copy_n of_o this_o answer_n of_o m._n barlow_n come_v to_o the_o inquisitor_n hand_n and_o be_v by_o they_o send_v to_o the_o say_a father_n with_o order_n to_o refute_v the_o same_o persuade_v themselves_o that_o a_o book_n of_o that_o bulk_n &_o argument_n write_v by_o a_o pretend_a prelate_n &_o dedicate_v to_o his_o majesty_n can_v not_o but_o bear_v some_o show_n of_o learning_n and_o therefore_o be_v not_o to_o be_v leave_v unanswered_a and_o that_o good_a opinion_n get_v m._n barlow_n by_o write_v in_o english_a for_o can_v these_o have_v but_o understand_v what_o be_v write_v &_o with_o what_o modesty_n and_o learning_n he_o may_v be_v sure_a f._n person_n shall_v never_o have_v be_v 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it_o will_v appear_v that_o i_o have_v neither_o dally_v with_o he_o nor_o illude_v the_o reader_n so_o that_o for_o any_o sound_a reply_n thereto_o i_o assure_v myself_o security_n from_o he_o and_o be_v not_o this_o very_o confident_o speak_v trow_v you_o and_o be_v not_o this_o minister_n well_o persuade_v of_o himself_o and_o his_o own_o learning_n that_o thus_o crake_v audivimus_fw-la superbiam_fw-la moab_n superbus_fw-la est_fw-la valde_fw-la 1●_n sed_fw-la superbia_fw-la eius_fw-la &_o arrogantia_fw-la eius_fw-la &_o indignatio_fw-la eius_fw-la plus_fw-la quam_fw-la fortitudo_fw-la eius_fw-la we_o have_v hear_v the_o pride_n of_o moab_n m._n barlow_n he_o be_v very_o proud_a but_o his_o pride_n and_o arrogancy_n and_o wrath_n be_v more_o than_o his_o strength_n 5._o neither_o be_v this_o swell_a
sco●land_n which_o be_v the_o quite_o contrary_a ●o_o that_o which_o i_o say_v and_o mean_v for_o i_o say_v that_o those_o three_o example_n be_v like_a if_o not_o in_o individ●●_n for_o that_o they_o may_v have_v different_a individual_a quality_n and_o circumstance_n yet_o be_v they_o like_v in_o specie_fw-la kind_n and_o nature_n but_o he_o make_v i_o to_o say_v that_o though_o they_o be_v not_o like_a in_o specie_fw-la yet_o they_o be_v in_o indi●iduo_fw-la which_o be_v most_o absurd_a and_o ridiculous_a for_o it_o be_v as_o much_o as_o if_o for_o example_n fake_v a_o man_n will_v say_v that_o a_o ox_n and_o a_o ass_n that_o agree_v not_o in_o specie_fw-la or_o kind_n may_v agree_v in_o individuo_fw-la whereas_o all_o philosophy_n teach_v that_o individual_a unity_n and_o agreement_n be_v the_o last_o presuppose_v all_o other_o unity_n go_v before_o both_o specifical_a &_o generical_a 3._o and_o can_v never_o be_v without_o they_o and_o consequent_o wheresoever_o specifical_a 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which_o we_o shall_v more_o easy_o have_v understand_v if_o he_o have_v set_v down_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o powder-treason_n in_o general_a for_o than_o we_o may_v have_v see_v whether_o the_o say_v flemish_a and_o scottish_a attempt_n of_o powder_n treason_n have_v agree_v in_o substance_n &_o nature_n with_o that_o of_o england_n though_o different_a in_o some_o circumstance_n that_o be_v not_o so_o essential_a but_o now_o we_o shall_v try_v the_o matter_n somewhat_o by_o his_o answer_n to_o these_o three_o instance_n of_o i_o 21._o to_o the_o first_o then_o of_o the_o powder_n plot_n of_o antwerp_n he_o say_v t●at_a t●is_n be_v do_v in_o open_a hostility_n what_o time_n say_v he_o all_o action_n ●or_a d●●●●s●ture_n be_v lawful_a either_o by_o fl●ig●t_n or_o force_v but_o by_o his_o leave_n these_o that_o do_v practice_v this_o plot_n of_o powder_n against_o their_o governor_n the_o prince_n of_o parma_n be_v his_o subject_n and_o little_o it_o import_v whether_o they_o be_v 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treason_n be_v complot_v by_o one_o alone_a which_o be_v hard_o to_o be_v imagine_v against_o a_o whole_a senate_n or_o by_o many_o and_o for_o discontentment_n give_v by_o the_o state_n who_o he_o will_v or_o have_v blow_v up_o that_o he_o be_v distract_v as_o some_o will_v fain_v for_o excuse_v the_o matter_n certain_a it_o be_v that_o it_o be_v powder-treason_n and_o direct_v and_o intent_a to_o the_o ruin_n of_o many_o which_o be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v it_o of_o the_o same_o species_n at_o least_o with_o that_o of_o eng●and_n but_o to_o the_o three_o of_o edinburgh_n in_o scotland_n edinburgh_n for_o the_o ruin_n of_o his_o majesty_n father_n when_o he_o come_v to_o answer_v he_o be_v exceed_o trouble_v and_o entangle_v how_o to_o defend_v it_o &_o therefore_o lay_v aside_o reason_v he_o fall_v to_o open_a rail_n say_v but_o by_o his_o note_n of_o the_o last_o powder-plot_n of_o scotland_n this_o censurer_n discover_v the_o rancour_n of_o his_o hart_n against_o our_o sovereign_n for_o though_o the_o execution_n of_o parricide_n and_o murder_n upon_o prince_n have_v est_fw-la soon_o alight_v upon_o some_o of_o the_o great_a and_o best_a of_o that_o royal_a sort_n that_o ever_o be_v and_o therefore_o no_o dishonour_n to_o they_o nor_o their_o posterity_n yet_o to_o cast_v up_o such_o a_o disastrous_a example_n in_o his_o majesty_n tooth_n prove_v well_o that_o he_o be_v sorry_a that_o his_o majesty_n escape_v the_o like_a peril_n who_o he_o so_o earnest_o wish_v to_o be_v his_o father_n successor_n in_o such_o a_o fortune_n so_o he_o and_o who_o will_v not_o think_v this_o malicious_a speech_n fit_a for_o a_o parasite_n then_o for_o a_o pretend_a prelate_n yea_o for_o the_o devil_n of_o lincoln_n then_o for_o any_o william_n lincoln_n make_v no_o scruple_n to_o condemn_v i_o of_o parricide_n for_o that_o i_o make_v only_a mention_n o●_n so_o
or_o ecclesiastical_a power_n have_v hitherto_o be_v or_o may_v be_v lawful_o exercised●_n for_o the_o reformation_n and_o correction_n of_o all_o manner_n of_o error_n heresy_n schism_n 〈◊〉_d etc._n etc._n all_o and_o all_o manner_n of_o jurisdiction_n priu●ledges_n and_o preeminence_n in_o any_o wise_a touch_v any_o spiritual_a or_o ecclesiastical_a jurisdiction_n with_o in_o the_o realm_n be_v give_v unto_o she_o and_o unite_v unto_o the_o cr●●●e_n this_o be_v the_o high_a doctrine_n in_o those_o day_n of_o the_o prince_n supreme_a ecclesiastical_a and_o spiritual_a power_n o●er_v the_o church_n of_o england_n no_o less_o they_o of_o the_o pope_n himself_o over_o his_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o now_o of_o late_a day_n and_o by_o late_a writer_n the_o case_n seem_v wonderful_o alter_v for_o not_o only_o have_v they_o take_v away_o the_o name_n &_o title_n of_o head_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v treason_n by_o king_n henry_n statute_n to_o deny_v and_o many_o be_v put_v to_o death_n for_o not_o yield_v thereunto_o but_o have_v take_v away_o the_o authority_n also_o itself_o if_o we_o respect_v the_o substance_n and_o shift_v in_o word_n to_o seem_v still_o to_o retain_v somewhat_o wherein_o among_o other_o m._n barlow_n seem_v eminent_a and_o under_o a_o show_n of_o defend_v the_o king_n supremacy_n to_o take_v it_o quite_o away_o for_o let_v we_o hear_v first_o how_o he_o handle_v the_o question_n about_o the_o prince_n authority_n for_o judge_v in_o case_n of_o religion_n which_o be_v the_o principal_a of_o all_o the_o rest_n he_o both_o propose_v and_o solve_v the_o question_n thus_o may_v not_o then_o say_v he_o a_o prince_n judge_v in_o case_n of_o religion_n and_o faith_n no_o not_o iudicio_fw-la definitivo_fw-la authority_n to_o determine_v what_o be_v sound_a divinity_n or_o not_o and_o so_o impose_v that_o upon_o the_o conscience_n of_o man_n for_o faith_n which_o he_o alone_o define_v to_o be_v so_o but_o iudicio_fw-la executivo_fw-la or_o iurisdictionis_fw-la he_o may_v and_o aught_o when_o the_o church_n have_v determine_v matter_n of_o say_v command_v the_o prosess_n thereof_o within_o his_o kingdomed_a as_o the_o sound_a and_o worthy_a to_o be_v receive_v this_o be_v his_o determination_n whereby_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o he_o permit_v only_o unto_o the_o king_n to_o execute_v that_o which_o his_o church_n in_o england_n to_o wit_n the_o bishop_n and_o clergy_n thereof_o shall_v determine_v about_o matter_n of_o religion_n which_o be_v no_o one_o jot_n more_o of_o power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n then_o that_o which_o catholic_n do_v ascribe_v unto_o their_o temporal_a prince_n to_o execute_v what_o the_o church_n determine_v but_o yet_o with_o this_o difference_n of_o much_o more_o dignity_n that_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o the_o execution_n only_o of_o that_o which_o the_o universal_a church_n shall_v determine_v &_o not_o of_o their_o own_o subject_n alone_o as_o it_o fall_v out_o on_o the_o behalf_n of_o his_o majesty_n of_o england_n in_o this_o case_n in_o which_o point_n also_o i_o do_v not_o see_v how_o he_o can_v wind_v himself_o out_o of_o this_o maze_n that_o must_v necessary_o follow_v of_o his_o own_o doctrine_n to_o wit_n that_o one_o shall_v receive_v from_o another_o that_o the_o other_o receive_v from_o he_o as_o for_o example_n if_o the_o bishop_n be_v his_o majesty_n subject_n as_o well_o in_o spiritual_a as_o temporal_a affair_n have_v no_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n but_o from_o he_o as_o the_o statute_n of_o king_n edward_n do_v determine_v and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n his_o majesty_n to_o have_v no_o authority_n to_o define_v of_o any_o matter_n belong_v to_o religion_n at_o all_o but_o only_o to_o execute_v that_o which_o the_o bishop_n do_v define_v it_o seem_v that_o they_o receive_v from_o his_o majesty_n that_o authority_n which_o they_o deny_v to_o be_v in_o he_o and_o so_o that_o he_o give_v they_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o have_v not_o in_o himself_o but_o be_v to_o receive_v from_o they_o moreover_o it_o be_v evident_a by_o this_o doctrine_n of_o they_o that_o the_o bishop_n do_v make_v their_o court_n &_o tribunal_n for_o matter_n of_o religion_n to_o be_v absolute_o great_a than_o the_o king_n for_o that_o they_o do_v allow_v he_o no_o other_o power_n for_o judge_v in_o spiritual_a matter_n but_o only_o to_o execute_v that_o which_o they_o shall_v define_v and_o determine_v and_o albeit_o for_o dazzle_v the_o simple_a reader_n eye_n m._n barlow_n do_v in_o this_o place_n fumble_v up_o a_o certain_a distinction_n fumble_v not_o well_o understand_v by_o himself_o take_v out_o of_o some_o schoolman_n as_o he_o say_v note_v occam_n in_o the_o margin_n that_o there_o be_v three_o part_n of_o this_o executive_a judgement_n the_o one_o discretive_n to_o discern_v the_o other_o directive_a to_o teach_v other_o the_o three_o decretive_n which_o three_o he_o say_v be_v in_o the_o prince_n both_o affirmative_o to_o bind_v to_o the_o observe_n of_o that_o which_o be_v so_o try_v and_o adjudge_v and_o negative_o to_o suppress_v the_o contrary_a and_o that_o this_o last_o be_v to_o judge_n for_o the_o truth_n and_o the_o former_a of_o define_v be_v to_o judge_v of_o the_o truth_n yet_o do_v all_o this_o reach_n no_o further_o but_o to_o the_o power_n of_o execution_n of_o that_o which_o other_o have_v determine_v which_o may_v be_v call_v a_o power_n of_o impotency_n in_o that_o behalf_n for_o that_o therein_o he_o be_v subject_a and_o not_o superior_a especial_o if_o it_o lie_v not_o in_o his_o power_n either_o to_o execute_v or_o not_o to_o execute_v as_o he_o shall_v think_v best_a which_o m._n barlow_n here_o denve_v say_v that_o he_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o execute_v when_o the_o church_n have_v determine_v but_o on_o the_o other_o side_n if_o he_o have_v power_n and_o liberty_n to_o execute_v or_o not_o to_o execute_v then_o be_v the_o other_o power_n of_o define_v in_o the_o bishop_n to_o small_a purpose_n for_o that_o they_o may_v define_v and_o he_o not_o execute_v his_o judgement_n be_v that_o they_o have_v define_v e●ill_o and_o by_o that_o way_n become_v he_o their_o judge_n again_o to_o define_v whether_o they_o have_v define_v well_o or_o no._n and_o this_o be_v another_o circle_n or_o labyrinth_n which_o i_o see_v not_o how_o m._n barl●●_n will_v easy_o avoid_v i_o do_v pretermit_v diverse_a other_o childish_a thing_n that_o be_v in_o this_o speech_n of_o he_o as_o where_o he_o propound_v thus_o the_o question_n as_o first_o whether_o a_o prince_n may_v judge_v in_o case_n of_o religion_n use_v say_v as_o though_o these_o two_o be_v sinonyma_n and_o all_o one_o whereas_o religion_n contain_v many_o case_n as_o well_o of_o life_n manner_n and_o cerimonye_n as_o of_o faith_n in_o all_o which_o case_n it_o may_v be_v demand_v how_o far_o the_o king_n may_v be_v judge_n second_o he_o say_v that_o the_o king_n can_v define_v and_o determine_v what_o be_v sound_a divinity_n or_o not_o which_o be_v far_o from_o the_o purpose_n for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o the_o king_n may_v judge_v and_o determine_v what_o be_v sound_a divinity_n or_o theology_n but_o what_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n and_o what_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v or_o not_o be_v believe_v by_o a_o true_a christian_a within_o his_o realm_n three_o in_o like_a manner_n when_o he_o say_v that_o the_o king_n have_v only_o iudicium_fw-la executiwm_fw-la or_o iurisdictionis_fw-la division_n as_o though_o they_o be_v all_o one_o whereas_o executio_fw-la and_o iurisdictio_fw-la be_v two_o different_a thing_n &_o jurisdiction_n be_v more_o proper_o in_o that_o party_n that_o define_v then_o in_o the_o other_o that_o execute_v for_o that_o the_o former_a command_v and_o the_o second_o obay_v four_o his_o term_n also_o of_o discretiwm_fw-la ascribe_v by_o he_o unto_o all_o christian_n to_o have_v power_n to_o try_v spirit_n whether_o they_o be_v of_o god_n or_o no_o beside_o that_o it_o seem_v contrary_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n to_o the_o corinthian_n who_o reckon_v up_o discretion_n of_o spirit_n to_o be_v a_o peculiar_a and_o several_a gift_n unto_o some_o alone_a say_v alij_fw-la discretio_fw-la spirituum_fw-la etc._n etc._n be_v nothing_o well_o apply_v by_o he_o to_o iudicium_fw-la execu●iwm_fw-la for_o that_o it_o appertain_v rather_o to_o iudicium_fw-la definitiwm_fw-la for_o somuch_o as_o those_o that_o have_v power_n to_o define_v &_o to_o determine_v of_o matter_n be_v principal_o to_o judge_v of_o spirit_n &_o not_o their_o subject_n to_o judge_v of_o they_o for_o that_o other_o wise_a there_o must_v needs_o ensue_v a_o inextricable_a confusion_n of_o try_v &_o judge_v of_o one_o the_o other_o spirit_n as_o if_o for_o example_n the_o bishop_n o●_n england_n shall_v try_v &_o condemn_v the_o spirit_n of_o the_o purytan_n and_o they_o again_o the_o spirit_n of_o the_o bishop_n by_o