Religion neither is the true Religion nor that it leads men the true way to salvation And affirmes that hee groundedly and absolutely denies that either the Church of England is or ever was a true Church innumerable more such sentences might be produced out of this Pamphlet to this effect and from many such premises as these hee exhorts all good people that are in the bosome of the Church of England as they love their own inward peace and spirituall joy to withdraw their spirituall obedience and subjection from her Now here againe I appeale to all judicious Christians what the Devill the Accuser of the brethren could have spake more raylingly and falsely against the faithfull servants of God both Ministers and people then what Iohn Lâ—lburne in the name of all those of his Fraternity hath uttered against them all Surely if any Enemies Persecutors Raylers and Revilers of the people of God and false Accusers ever lived upon the earth they are those of the congrâ—gationall way and therefore they are no Sâ—ints Yeâ— when they write most mildly against the Presbyterians they call them Lyons Beares Wolves Tygers and in their ordinary language in towne and countrey they never see almost any Minister passâ— by them but they call them Baals Priests the lims of Antichrist the Antichristian brood the Devils Ministers Presbytyrants with a thousand other words of conâ—umely and of all their Presbyterian brethren both Scots and English they speake of them most shamefully upon all occasions terming them sonnes of earth sinners carnall people enemies of Christ Jesus and his Kingdom nay they revile us in the open streets when we passe by them and all that I now say the Independents themselves cannot deny to be most truly related by mee and their very bookes and all their Pamphlets are now in the hands of the people and daily read by them and they all can witnesse for mee that I have wronged them in nothing by all which that part of my Minor is sufficiently proved that all the Independents are notorious Raylers Revilers and false Accusers and therefore no Saints nor good Daemons but such as ought to be separate from and not to be communicated with in holy things as not formed into a church or churches after the New-Testament forme which ought to consist of all visible Saints And that they have caused divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine of Christ is also apparent and that from the great rents schismes and factions they have causelessely made amongst their brethren in church and state having neither Precept nor President in the whole Booke of God for any of their practises and proceedings in their new congregations and therefore this truth also being by the sad experience of all men notoriously knowne wee have a command to shun them and take heed of them as of a company of Seducers and false Teachers who so long as they persevere and continue in these their ungodly wayes they proclaime themseves to be no Saints nor good Daemons but a Generation of vipers and serpents and such as all godly soules ought to have no communion with whatsover their pretences of holinesse and sanctity be And that they are notorious covenant breakers it is most evident and apparent to all that will not wilfully shut their eyes for they have entred into a solemne covenant and oath and that made in the presence of God to labour for a through reformation of Religion in the Kingdome of England and Ireland in Doctrine Worship and Discipline according to the word of God and the example of the best reformed Churches and in expresse words also they have vowed and covenanted in the presence of Almighty God the searcher of all hearts with a true intention to performe the same as they shall answer it at the great day that they will without respect of persons indeavour the extirpation of Popery Prelacy Superstition Heresie Schisme Prophanenesse and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound doctrine and the power of godlinesse lest they partake in their sinnes and thereby be in danger to receive of their plagnes They have vowed also with all faithfulnesse to indeavour the discovery of all such as have beene or shall bee Incendiaries Malignants or evill Instruments by hindring the reformation of Religion dividing the King from his people or one of the Kingdomes from an other or making of any factions or parties amongst the people contrary to thâ—s league and covenant And all the Independent Ministers in the Reverend Assembly did faithfully promise unto their brethren and under their owne hands by writing confirme it that they would preach such doctrines publickly only as tended to Faith Repentance and Salvation and that they would not trouble the people with any of those controversies concerning Discipline and Church-government till they saw what Plat-forme of Discipline the Parliament and the Assembly should set downe and solemnly promised also by such a time to bring in their modell and others of the Ministers of the congregationall way when they came out of New-England entring into serious discourse with some of their brethren the Ministers of the Church of England that had suffered much under the Prelates tyrannie and that indeed had indured the brunt and undergone the heate of the day of their cruelty and persecution and of whom they had experience for their faithfulnesse and constancy in the truth I say some of these fugitive Ministers after their returne entring into communication with them and demanding of them what Discipline and Government they intended now in place of the Prelaticall usurpation to establish and set up for answer they told them that their indeavour God assisting them should be to set up a Government according to the word of God as nigh as they could after the example of the best reformed churches in Scotland France Germany and Low-countries whereupon they immediately replying said if this be indeed your reall intention then in the presence of God wee give you the right hand of Fellowship resolving to stand to you and by you faithfully unto the death All that I now relate can be proved by an Iliad of witnesses Notwithstanding all these Covenants Promises and serious ingagements and that in the presence of God they have all of them blake all these covenants and promises made both to God and man and have violated them all and every one of them and have not only neglected to bring in their modell of government though promised by them and againe and againe urged to it but made factions rents and schismes in the Church and preached up the congregationall way and brought an odium and hatred of the Presbyterie amongst the people and most shamefully continually inveighd against their brethren the Presbyterians and all their proceedings and have laboured also with all their might and power to hinder the reformation of Religion and to breake the union betweene the two nations Scots and English and to bring in a toleration of all
nothing â—ut Peacocks Parrets and Jackanapes or more mischievous things though gayly set forth with the which he befooles himself and amases yea deceives the poor and ignorant people whiles they go gazing after them For saith he We distinguish between authority and jurisdiction on the one hand and power and interest on the other and this latter belongs unto the people the other is proper to the officers c. But before I come to my answer I must tell I. S. that from whom soever he hath borrowed this distinction it is groundlesse and has no Warrant for it in sacred writ yea I hope to make it good that it is contrary unto it and therefore it was well said by a learned Professor of Divinity in the University of Oxford that it was an easie thing to finde distinctions in schoolmen to mocke God and destroy their own souls and thereupon exhorted all his Scollers to be very carefull lest out of respect to mens persons and from the conceipt they had of their piety and abilities in learning they were not deceived And the same exhortation may now in these our dayes be of very good use especially when a lying spirit is gone out into innumerable false Prophets as it did in Ahab his time and when a spirit of error is gone out into the world and is to be found in every house of the Independents in all these regards I say the caveat and exhortation of that reverend Divine may now be very usefull and serviceable for these our times And therefore it stands all men upon to prove and examine all things according to the Apostles rule 1 Thess 5. ver 21 and hold fast that which is good Now in Divine matters and in the matters of our God we must be especially careful that we see a ground warrant out of his word or from excellent reason or good consequences deduced from thence for whatsoever opinion or distinction in sacred things shall be brought and propounded unto us and if it have not its authority or ground from thence or some example or president or sollid reason or good consequence out of the same word to warrant and confirm it it is to be rejected by all good Christians especially if it consist of captious doubtful and ambiguous expressions and which will admit of various and different interpretations and to all the rest be found contrary to the word of God as this grollish distinction brought by I. S. doth for he makes a distinction between authority and jurisdiction on the one hand and power and interest on the other as if there were some vast difference between them when all learned men know that authority jurisdiction and power are all one as when a Magistrate making use of either of these words says such an one is under my authority or jurisdiction or power all men know that either of those words signifies his authority over him and those expressions intimate one the same thing But as for the word interest which he makes a Synonima with power it is a meer grollery for that is a word of ambiguity and of various significations and admits of divers interpretations and therefore cannot be the same with power the meaning of the which I am confident that I. S. himselfe knoweth not but this word serves the turne of our American brethren and those of the Congregationall way here to juggle withall But if a man would but seriously consider and weigh what the meaning of this word interest signifieth in their dialect and what they understand by it if they would speak out they shall finde that by that distinction of power and interest in the people by interest they mean and understand a title or right or due in the people both to the property and possession of all the power in Church and State and beleeve that it is originally and radically in the people and that it is properly their due and right and from them onely delegated to the officers of Church and State whom as they do betrust with it so they may at pleasure take it from them again and this that I now say the Pamphlets of these times many of them can witnesse is their meaning by interest amongst others that of Englands birth right and John Lilburns learned Letter who in the 14 Page of the same hath these words For my part saith he I looke upon the House of Commons as the supreme power of England who have residing in them that power that is inherent in the people who yet are not to act according to their owne wils and pleasures but according to the constitutions and customes of the Land c. out of whose words it is apparently evident that they make all power to be inherently in the people as their birth-right to which they may at any time make as good title and claime as to their inheritance and that they in their language call interest this also can be proved out of many of the Independents Pamplets and from their words that if they conceive the Parliament use not that power they are intrusted with according to the constitutions and customes of the land they may at any time by the people be devested of it or at least questioned I am confident I say there would be no great difficulty to prove as much as I now say has beene uttered by the Sectaries of these our times and I am most assured if they increase but to a little greater number that unlesse the Lord shew his mighty power in preserving the Parliament if they should in the least displease them and not humour them to their content they would put that in execution and really act what now they but mutter in corners and set forth in libellous Pamphlets and in warning peeces as in Londons late Warning-peece so that this truth is very wel knowne that by power and interest in the Independents language which they place in the people and not in the officers they meane the soveraigne and supreme authority and all say that it is their peculiar birth-right and that they are the Parliament and Iudges and that the officers are but their servants either to prepare matters for their hearing or for executing of what they would have them to doe and that whatsoever they speake of authority and jurisdiction in the officers it is onely to please them a little by putting a rattle into their hand that may looke gayly and make a little noyse but have no strength in it for they keepe all power in their owne hands and this I hope to make good out of I. S. his distinction and that to the dishonour of God himselfe as well as to the overthrowing of all authority in time through the world and therefore this distinction must necessarily be against the word of God But that my charge against I. S. and those of his party for hee writeth in the name of them all may the better appeare to all that shall
revile us and we have Christs example for it who said Father forgive them they know not what they do speaking of those that persecuted him which Saint Stephen imitating said Lord lay not this sin to their charge supplicating likewise for his enemies And so Saint Paul prayed for all those that forsook him when he appeared before Nero. Now when the Independents and Sectaries transgresse thus against precept upon précept and against the example of all the holy Prophets and Christ himselfe and his blessed Apostles and Martyrs and dayly by these their practices fight against God himselfe and are in every thing so unlike the old Puritans of England it is manifest that they have not outgrown them in this point of duty and that the way of Independency is not the way of righteousnesse but the way of error and open rebellion against God so that those glorious titles they assume unto themselves of being the onely holy and praying people and the Saints and but the old Puritans of England overgrown do not belong unto the Independents and Sectaries when they are so like the devill in all their practices For it is sufficiently known can be abundantly proved that many of the Independents Sectaries wil neither pray with the Presbyterians nor for them no nor for King and Parliament nor for the Assembly nor for the Scots yea if need be it can be proved that they have prayed and that publickly against them all yea their dayly Pamphlets witnesse what good affection they have towards them all whose chiefe imployment it is except it be now and then by the way of slattery when they coaks the Parliament a little to gain their favour that by their party in the house they may do the more mischiefe against the Presbyterians I say except it be at such a nick of time the whole imployment of all the Sectaries generally is abominably to abuse them and to raile and revile both the House of LORDS and COMMONS and the Assembly and the Scots and the City and for the King they cannot hear of his very name with patience I can say thus much of them and men also of good rank and reputation that I never have heard more reviling speeches in my life against any men then they have uttered in my hearing and in the audience of many and that at the Parliament door affirming openly that they were more tyrannicall then either Strafford or the Prelate and greater persecutors then those of the High Commission Court and this was the general language of all the Sectaries through the Kingdome within this twelve Moneths indeed since the recruiting of the House and since by that means they have strengthned their party and they have of late shewed lesse favour to the Presbytery and the City they have not been altogether publickly so boysterous in their expressions yet notwithstanding privately amongst themselves they can speak daggers both against many worthy Members in the House of Commons and against many of the Lords and against the City and against the Scots and especially against the Assembly all the which they traduce at pleasure with most of the proceedings of the House of Commons if at least they do not humor them to their desires and designes yea many of their printed Pamphlets can witnesse for me that I wrong them not and amongst others those that were writ by John Lilburne who is but the mouth of the rest who dares speak out what the other Sectaries dare but mutter and therefore he is adored and exceedingly animated and countenanced by them all and superlatively cryed up as the onely man of courage and animosity amongst all those of that fraternitie and he makes all the Lords but Prerogative and King creatures and the very House of Commons but the creature of the people who may call them to an account when they please and therefore for all their flatterie in their Petition it highly concerns the Great Councel and the whole kingdom timely to look into their proceedings their clandestine machinations lest that in recruting of the Parliament they doe so strengthen their faction that in fine they destroy not only the Parliament it selfe but the whole Kindome and make themselves soveraigne Lords indeed as they pretend they are over both the King and Parliament and all the people and so become really our Lords and Masters so that whereas formerly this nation was called the Popes and Prelates Asses we may now justly be called and termed the Independents Mules a monstrous brood indeed for it is sufficiently knowne and can be proved and that by good witnesse that it is their maxime that the Saints only ought to rule the world and to have the sword in their hand aud they prove this their Doctrine out of the 149. Psame where the Prophet saith v. 5 6 7. c. Let the Saints be jeyfull in glory let them sing abroad upon their beds let the high prayses of God be in their mouth and a two edged sword in their hand to execute vengeanee upon the Heathen and punishments upon the people to bind their Kings with chaines and their Nobles with fetters of Iron to execute upon them the judgement written this honour have all his Saints prayse yee the Lord. Upon this place of Holy Scripture they ground their opinion that the Saints only ought to rule the Earth now they account none Saints but themselves and all the Presbyterians enemies of Jesus Christ yea they have beene heard say when they are amongst themselves where they may speake freely that they see no reason why the Saints may not compell any nation by the sword to come under obedience to Christs Kingdome So that howsoever they challenge liberty of conscience now saying that conscience is a tender thing and that it ought not be forced yet if they but once get the day they will give no toleration I beleeve to any Presbyterians yea I am most assured had but the Parliament voted for Independency as they did for the Presbyterie they would have found Scripture enough then by which they would have proved that the Christian Magistrate might have forced any to come under obedience to Christs yoake and then the example of Nehemiah would have beene exceedingly urged by them all who seeking a through Reformation would not suffer so much as the language of Ashdod to be spoke within his jurisdiction but constrained them all to imbrace the true Religion and sweare by God that is to set up Gods true worship this example of Nehemiah I am confident would have beene urged and that eagerly by them all who at their first comming over from their pretended banishment I meane the Homothumadon Brethren and those of new-New-England as long as they had any hopes of setting up their Independency were very frequently heard speake of a through Reformation and alwayes commend noble Nehemiah for his zeale that hee would not suffer any false worship in Ierusalem but since they perceive their
not the onely Saints nor the old Puritans of England over-growne for it is notorious that all of them abhorred all these their ungodly proceedings and therefore the way of Independency is not the way of righteousnesse but the open way of sinne heresie and apparent Rebellion But I will yet in a few things more compare the old Puritans of England and the Sectaries and Independents together before I come to speake of the prayer of that Homothumadon brother I first made mention of It is well knowne that the old Puritans of England were all of them very zealous for the sanctifying of the Lords day and their whole imployments on that day sufficiently declared to all those that were familiarly acquainted with them that they were heavenly minded men and such as were truly mortified and dead unto the world who denyed unto themselves usually those ordinary necessaries on that day that at other times they would more freely partake in they dressed but little meat on that day no more then very necessitie called for not out of any penuriousnesse but for this end that their servants might be eased from all toyling workes that they might the better attend upon the duties of the day and they were especially carefull that both they and their children with the strangers that were within their gates should sanctifie that day they left none of them to ramble whether they pleased they had well learned that Lesson that they and their men-servants and maid-servants with the stranger within their wals should keepe holy the Sabbath day and did both by themselves and with their families take order that no duty of the day should be omitted the whole day being taken up either in prayer or meditation or reading of the holy Scriptures or hearing the Word or repeating of Sermons or singing of Psalmes or instructing and catechising their Families or in the works of charity or visiting the sick or in holy conference or in reading godly books or in performing of some duty or other that might bring glory to God and honour to their holy profession and their houses were generally so well ordered and all things carried in such comelinesse and decencie as he that had beene brought up in profane company and had accidentally lighted into owne of their houses would as much have wondred to see the excellent carriage of all things there as the Queene of Sheba did to behold the ordering of Solomons house I may truly speake this to their immortall praise that I never saw in their Families the least disorder on those dayes nor never saw a Feast on that day though at other times they were very free in their entertainments and much given to Hospitalitie and nigardly in nothing and commonly they caused their Table-cloath to be spread on the Saturday before they went to bed and they were carefull that all that were well in the Family should go to Church with them and they had a singular care that all their servants might have no hindrances or impediments by any worldly imployments that might in the least disturbe them or dictract them from the duties of the day all these things I can witnesse with thousands more besides my selfe were the practices of the old Puritans of England and this was the way of Righteousnesse that they walked in for the sanctifying of the Lords day Now if the practice of the Independents and Sectaries about this busines and point of obedience be looked into there will be found a vast difference betweene them and the old Puritans of England for it is well knowne that they ordinarily make all their greatest entertainments on that day as that I spake of before for instance and many more that I could mention where the whole Church was feasted to no small distraction to their poore and godly servants that were taken up with more attendance that day then Martha was on an ordinary day in entertaining of Christ himselfe which not withstanding hee then blamed in very godly and beleeving Martha who had learned to give Christ an honourable confession of her faith concerning her beliefe in him and doubtlesse if Martha were then blamed by Christ and had from him a reproofe for her too much care about many things in entertaining himselfe I beleevee the Independents and Sectaries will receive but little thankes at his hand for profaning his owne day and causing others to doe the same and for their thus breaking and violating his holy Lawes and hindring of his servants by their needlesse entertainments from the duties of pietie and holinesse that he requires at their hands on those dayes and he will say to them at the last judgement as for these their disorderly walkings so for their new and needlesse traditions who required these things at your hands nay did I not forbid these things will the Lord say Truly it is most notorious that the Sectaries and Independents are very loose in the sanctifying of the Lords day and although many of them before they fel into the way of Independencie were very conscionable observers of that day and were greatly displeased with the King for granting but a toleration for sports on that day and could then say that very sinne alone had beene enough to bring downe the judgements of God upon the whole Land yet since they turned Sectaries they can now not only feast and ryot on that day but if need be work on the same in their ordinary imployments as can be proved and many of them that were then great zealots for the performances of all duties of holinesse that day with all their Families now regard not that day no more then an other nay they let their servants and children goe whether they please leaving them all to the liberty as they speake of their owne consciences and it is ordinarily observed that all the Independents and Sectaries in the Armie and through the whole Kingdome will frequently journey on that day and for the Homothumadon Predicants they are trundled about on the Lords day in their Coaches with foure Horses needlessely disquieting both men and beasts that they have a command to give rest unto A Tumbrell or a Dung-cart were fitter for these proud and profane Fellowes to be carried about in and if they will not leave these their licentious courses and surcease thus to profane the Lords day I see no reason but that the Magistrate should take some order with them and punish them for profaning it it being not only against the Lawes of God but contrary unto the Lawes of the Land It may be that is one of the Lawes that the Sectaries would have abrogated and made null for most certaine it is their practises are both contrary to that Law and the knowne Law of God and the practise of all the old Puritans of England and therefore the way of Independency in this point also is not the way of Righteousnesse but of profanesse and licentiousnesse neither are they overgrowne Puritans in this But
are mentioned and therefore if I in Gods quarrell and cause be a little more earnest and use a little more tartnesse which I shall ever wave in my owne it may with any good nature easily plead excuse But before I conclude my Epistle I shall desire you all to consider three passages omitting many I shall here set before your eyes the one out of Master Knollys his Answer the other out of I. S. his Flagellum the third out of my Brother Burtons Vindiciae that you may take notice of the vanity and futility of these men and how much they have wronged your cause before you reade the insuing Discourse Master Knollys thus speaks upon the Frontispice of his Booke A moderate Answer unto Doctor Bastwicks Booke wherein the manner how some Churches in this Citie were gathered and upon what termes their Members were admitted that so both the Doctor and the Reader may judge how neere some ` Beleevers who walke together in the Fellow-ship of the Gospel doe come in their practise to these Apostolicall rules which are propounded by the Doctor as Gods method in gathering Churches and admitting Members These are Master Knollys his own words and in the nineteenth and twentieth page he more fully there testifies his good liking of that method for gathering of Churches that I out of the Word of God propounded and would perswade the world that their Congregations were gathered after that method or manner or came very nigh unto it by all which his expressions and by that their practice he declares that in his judgement I have writ nothing but what is agreeable to Gods Word I appeale now therefore unto you all whether this man deserves not condigne punishment that will goe about undertake and endeavour to confute that Booke which he in his judgement alloweth of and according to which he pretendeth he practiseth andall this for the deluding and misleading of unstable soules to the trouble both of Church and State I am most assured that those that are rationall amongst you and not blinded with passion will say that Master Knollys is not only an unworthy trifler but that hee goeth contrary unto his owne Principles and ought deservedly to be severely punished for his thus wickedly mispending his pretious time and abusing the simple people For if I have writ nothing concerning the gathering of Churches but what he in his conscience beleeveth and practiseth then how unexcusable is that in this man that will speake against what his owne soule dictates unto him to be according to GODS holy Word By all which it is manifest that he is not onely a vain jangler but hath lost the day and wronged that your cause the defence of which notwithstanding he entred into the field to vindicate and maintain against all the Presbyterians And that which I have said of him may deservedly be spake of I. S. and my brother Burton For I. S. in the 13. Page of his Flagelli hath these words If it were granted saith he that many Churches did aggregate and unite in the beginning yet would not this example be bindingly presidential c. and seems there to prove it by arguments and my brother Burton in the 9. and 10. pages of his Pamphlet assenteth unto I. S. his doctrine as you may see at large if you look into it in which you shall find also that he acknowledgeth there were many congregations of beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem and at that time when according to his own reckoning there were but three thousand beleevers in that Church His words are these saying that though they wanted a convenient place so spacious as wherein to break bread or to receive the Lords Supper altogether so as they were constrained to sever themselves into divers companies in severall private houses to communicate c. So that by the learning of all these your great Champions you will in the sequell of this discourse evidently perceive that they have utterly overthrown your doctrine of Independency and of the Congregational way and that whiles they all came out to maintain it For Mr Knollys as I said even now he fights against the light of his own understanding and opposeth that truth which he in his judgement alloweth of And for I. S. and my brother Burton they have ignorantly murthered your cause For all the contention hitherto both in the Synod between the reverend Presbyters there and the Homothumadon dissenting brethren and between all the Independents and Presbyterians through the Kingdome hath been concerning the Church of Jerusalem and the number of beleevers in that Church which the dissenting brethren with all the Independents in England hold were never at first and last more then could all meet in one place or Congregation to partake in all acts of worship and they assert moreover that that Church ought to be a patern for all Churches to the end of the world in respect of its government and do peremptorily affirme that the example of that Church is bindingly presidentiall to all succeeding ages for imitation which is the opinion not only of the Homothumadon dissenting brethren but of all the Sectaries that I know yea the orthodox Presbyterians do all beleeve that the Church of Ierusalem the Mother-Church is to be a pattern of Government to all Churches in all succeeding ages to the end of the World Now I. S. saith that the example of the Church of Ierusalem is not bindingly presidential wickedly comparing it to the confused chaos that indigested moles in the first creatiō so that he makes the church of Ierusalem an imperfect patern So that by his doctrine it is left arbitrary for any Church or State to set up what kind of Church government they please Now whether or no this opinion of his be not contrary to all divinity and the judgement of all orthodox Divines yea to the very tenent of all the Independents I leave it to the consideration of all those amongst you that can judge of things that differ So that you may see that this Champion also of yours hath absolutely overthrown your own principles when he came out to maintain and defend your cause My brother Burton also hath given a fatall blow to that cause he came out so desperately to maintain For all the Independents through the world that ever I heard of with all the Homothumadon brethren in the Assembly by all their arguments have hitherto laboured to evince that there were no more beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem then could all meet in one place or Congregation to communicate in all ordinances acknowledging that if it could be proved there were more Assemblies and Congregations of beleevers in that Church that then they would yeeld the cause and they spake according to reason For if there were many Congregations of beleevers in Ierusalem and all those made up but one Church and were all under one Presbytery as they must of necessity be if they made all but one entire
Argument I may gather that the Christian Churches now through the world at least all the reformed Churches may as well be called nationall Churches as the Jewish Church was especially if we looke unto the requisites that make a nationall Church for two things are required for the making of a nationall Church first a nationall agreement in the same faith and worship Secondly a nationall union in one Ecclesiasticall body in the same community of Ecclesiasticall government as now the Church of England Scotland and Ireland have all by covenant bound themselves to maintaine the same faith and worship and by a nationall union and agreement they have accorded to be under a Presbyteriall government and this they all acknowledge to be Gods Ordinance and a way appointed by him of governing his church and that the Presbyterian government is Gods Ordinance the Independents themselves doe acknowledge but they hold only a congregationall Presbyterie and we hold and that from all reason and from the good word of God and from many presidents both Citie classicall provinciall and nationall Presbyteries and oecumenicall also upon occasions for of these kinds of Presbyteries both the Word of God and many Ecclesiasticall Histories doe furnish us with some presidents and therefore for the one wee have divine institution for it and many examples in the Booke of God but wee have neither precept nor example of that of the congregationall way and therefore it is none of Gods institutions nor none of his devices nor composures that I may use some of I. S. his Rhetoricke but a meere figment of their own braine But now I am to answer to something my Brother Burton hath to say concerning the Presbyters of the Church of England who pag. 6. 7. of his Booke If you saith he have not a good Presbyterie where shall hee viz. that is scandalized or offended goe to complaine Hee may goe and appeale higher you will say and what if the higher the worse Good Brother saith hee either provide the people of the Land an honest godly Presbytery that may be as so many Angels to gather out of Christs Kingdome every thing that offends or else let there be a tender care of tender consciences and some provision made for them that they may not be scandalized by being forced to be the companions of the scandalous Thus my Brother Burton Here is a double If propounded meerly to amuse the people for it is not unknowne to all men that the Parliament the great Councell of the Kingdome endeavoureth to cast out all scandalous Ministers so farre as their power extendeth through the Kingdome if by information and sufficient witnesses they can be proved to be such so that every conscientious and intelligible man may see there is very small ground for the doubts and feares either of my Brother Burton or any of that Fraternity that there will not be a good Presbytery set up and as little when they cannot deny but the godly if offended may goe and appeale higher for either he himselfe or they to make such a supposition what if the higher the worse If I should conclude that these doubts were conceived nourished and brought forth out of the wombe of faction my Brother Burton with his complices would call it rayling therefore to avoid ifit be possible their unjust censures I onely say thus much that both hee and all his brethren use an uncharitable way of arguing which is the best construction can be made of it for thus they may traduce any man yea any government or any way of God at pleasure with a detracting if But here lies the mysterie the onely way my Brother Burton and his associats have to advance Independency is to cloud the truth of God under darke expressions and to eclypse those shining Lights the faithfull godly Ministers throughout the kingdom that the Lord hath set up in his Church that so the people may not heare the voice of God speaking in them by which meanes the understandings of many are wrapped up in error obscurity and darkenesse as in a mantle and the ungrounded and unwarrantable notions of Independency are received by them as new Lights they being very pleasing to flesh and blood for man naturally hath an ambitious boundlesse spirit and from the beginning would not be limited by God himselfe and the Independent doctrine being without bounds teaching that it is free for men to beleeve practise and preach abroad their severall opinions calling it liberty of conscience this is such a Light that all the sons and daughters of darkenesse will willingly walke in But should the Independents obtaine their desire whereever this new Light were set up it would prove no other liberty then that which our first Parents Adam and Eve gained for their Rebellion against Gods command which was to inslave themselves and all their posterity to sinne and Satan and most certaine it is that such a liberty as the Independents doe teach seeke and joyning with all sort of Sectaries and Libertines plead and stand for would bring confusion and an irrevocable curse on those Kingdomes and countries as shall tolerate so great abominations and cause the Lord who hates Laodicean Lukewarmenesse in Religion to spue them out of his mouth Revel 3. 15. 16. But before I passe on I will take this liberty to say unto my Brother Burton that whatsoever with his Ifs hee can plead against our Presbyters may be said with much more and with farre better reason against the independent Presbyters if they be wicked or hereticall for from them there is no appeal for reliefe by any amongst them never so much wronged and therefore all such kinds of arguing against our Presbyters is as altogether uncharitable so but trifling But my Brother Burton cals upon me to provide the people of the Land an honest and godly Presbyterie from whence it appeares that in his and his brethrens account all the Orthodox faithfull and godly Presbyters in the Land at this day who differ from the opinions they have lately received are neither honest nor godly for if there be as most certaine it is there are many honest godly Presbyters provided for the people of the Land it is strange he should speak in such a manner as if they were altogether wanting for so his words doe intimate for why otherwise should he make such a request to me of providing an honest godly Presbyterie if he or they beleeved wee had a godly Presbytery already who notwithstanding he knows hath no power to performe it Truly all his Argumentations are very uncharitable no way beseeming a Brother for charity is kind and thinks no evill 1 Cor. 13. 4. 5. But were it so that it might be taken pro confesso that ther were not any such set up in this land which were to deny the Suns shining at noon-day did hee and the Independents indeed and in truth unfainedly desire such a Presbyterie should be set up established why
do they not as they falsly accuse them first prove them to be enemies of Jesus Christ and his Kingdom and not a godly and an honest Presbyterie and then as in duty they are all bound earnestly in the first place seeke to God that he would send faithfull Labourers into his Vineyard and secondly to authority that they would set up an honest and a godly Presbyterie and give unto them full power that they may be as so many Angels to gather out of Christs Kingdom every thing that offends according to the Word of God which all the knowing godly Presbyterians Ministers and people do heartilydesire that so no truly tender consciences may be scandalized this I say were the duty of them all and not to make suppositions needlesse requests to those that have neither power nor authority to doe it But the Independents are so farre from this that they have made it their designe hitherto to hinder the worke of Reformation by raysing up questions continually as being alwayes unsatisfied and by seeking to stirre up the people in their preachings and Pamphlets against the Presbyterians and that meerly to oppose retard and keepe off a setled government in the Church of God saying what haste is there of that and in the meane time they fish in our troubled waters and yet their strongest and most effectuall baits wherewith they allure and catch the poore silly fishes I meane the simple and unstable people is this to tell them that there is not any Church government setled and that as they have waited many years already so they may waite as many more and be as farre off from Discipline and a through Reformation as they now are saying withall if they doe waite to have a Presbyterie set up what if it be not a good one and what if they have not power to gather out of Christs Kingdome every thing that offends affirming that as it is uncomfortable so it is absolutely sinfull to live without the Ordinances which amongst the Saints and none but Beleevers in their Congregations they may injoy Thus whiles the Independents doe labour and endeavour with all their might to oppose the setling of Church government they make the want thereof the most powerfull and prevalent Engine and Argument to draw the people into their way and upon the occasion of these Interrogatories or queries and of these Ifs and An ds of my Brother Burton and his confedertes I shall set downe some of their Independent practises well known to many thousands in this Kingdome besides my selfe by which their ingratitude both to God and men and the restâ—esnesse of these mens spirits will the better appeare to all such as are not blinded with a previous or prejudicated opinion So that all men of discerning spirits by beholding their juglings and unwarrantable proceedings may learne to shun them and to take heed of them and all their by-wayes It is well knowne that in the time of the Prelats power the removall of a very few things would have given great content unto the most scrupulous consciences for I my selfe can speake thus much not only concerning the conscientious Professors here in England but the most rigid Separatists beyond the Seas with many of which I had familiar acquaintance at home and abroad and amongst all that ever I conversed with I never heard them till within these twenty yeares desire any other thing in Reformation but that the Ceremonies might be removed with their Innovations and that Episcopacy might be regulated and their boundlesse power and authority taken from them and that the extravagances of the High Commission Court might be annihilated and made void and that there might through the Kingdom be a preaching Ministery every where set up This was all that the most that I was then acquainted with desired in the Reformation of Church matters Indeed within this sixteene yeares I met with some that desired a more full Reformation and yet if they might have injoyed but that I now mentioned they would have beene very thankfull to God and authority and have sate downe quietly But yet I say the extreamest extent of their desires reached but to the removall of all the Ceremonies and Innovations the taking away of the Service Booke and the putting downe of the High Commission Court which was called the court Christian though it was rather Pagan and the removall of the Hierarchy root and branch and the setting up and establishing of a godly Presbyterie through the Kingdome this was I say all and the uttermost Reformation that was required by the most scrupulous men then living that I knew yea I can speake thus much in the presence of God that Master Robinson of Leiden the Pastor of the Brownist Church there told mee and others who are yet living to witnesse the truth of what I now say that if hee might in England have injoyed but the liberty of his Ministry there with an immunity but from the very Ceremonies and that they had not forced him to a subscription to them and imposed upon him the observation of them that hee had never separated from it or left that Church This I can depose so that all men may see the very dispensing with the ceremonies would then have given great content to the most austere professors how much more may any man suppose would they have sate down satisfied if but the very ceremonies then might have bin removed Surely if the Prelats had not beene infatuated and had they but in those things a little connived and would have abated somewhat of their rigour for ought I know they might have never been questioned but they might have injoyed all their honours and greatnesse and whatsoever they could have desired and that with the good liking of all the people had they I say but dispensed with those needlesse vanities and had they but favoured honest and godly Ministers and set up Lights I meane good Preachers in the darke places and corners of the Kingdome they would have beene beloved and reverenced of all men and no man would have envied their Magnificence yea I am most assured had they but favoured good and godly men the whole Kingdome would have beene their friends and whereas they all at last petitioned against them they would have supplicated in their behalfe that they might still have continued in their authority But through their owne pride and from an ambition of Lording it over their brethren and by their tyrannicall practices and licentious living they have brought confusion upon themselves and beene one of the principall causes of all the miseries and distractions and of all the blood-shed that the three Kingdomes are now involved with and for ought I can discerne our Independent Predicants now treading in their steps and seeking to be the sole and onely men and to set up their new government which is more groundlesse then that of the Prelates if the Lord of his infinite power and goodnesse prevent
words which I have set downe at large omitting many other such expressions the summe of them briefly is this that all the Ministers of the Church of England that are not in their combination doe deny disclaime and preach against Christs Kingly Government over mens consciences and churches and are no better then the persecuting Jewes that made a mocke scorne and ludibry of Christ and that all the people under their Ministry are men unconverted or at least converted but in part wanting the maine thing to wit Christs kingly office men visibly out of the covenant of grace who have not so much as an outward profession of faith who deny Christ to be their King to whose persons and infants the very Sacraments and seales of grace with all church communion may and ought to be denyed Now I referre my selfe to the judgement of all learned and impartiall Christians whether there can be uttered with the tongue or pen of men any more injurious unjust raâ—lings and revilings or more untrue and false accusations against their brethren For all those godly Christians through the thrâ—e Kâ—ngdomes can witâ—esse the contrary who by the pâ—eaching of the Word and Gospel have beene converted by the Ministry of the chuâ—ch of England Yea the Independents themselves and my brother Burton if they will no belye the truth must acknowledge next under God their conversion to the Ministers of the church of England for none but converts and beleevers are to be admitted into their new congregations and I never yet heard that the Independent Ministers converted any and therefore when my brother Burton accuseth all the Ministers and beleeving people of the church of England to be enemies of the Lord Jesus when they all indeavour to set him up upon his Throne as King it is a most horrid wickednesse in him and those of his party to beare false witnesse against their Neighbours and so to calumniate and revile the true servants of the Lord by which they come to take the Devils office upon themselves and become all of them false Accuâ—ers of the brethren Raylers and Persecutors and Seducers and therefore no Saints Yea it is ordinary with my brother Burton as can be proved both to speake and print untruths and notorious falsehoods but passing many of them by in some of his last bookes as Truth shut out of doores and in this his Booke called Vindiciae veritatis which may bee more properly stiled Vindiciae mendacii in the 24. page speaking there most maliciously against learned Master Edwards and my selfe hee saith that hee by his pen and preaching and that I by my pen labour to take an order that the Independents shall have no Pulpits to preach in at all Witnesse saith he that late mis-rule at your towne of Colchester upon your bookes and T. E. his preaching by which words of his hee would make the deluded people beleeve that there was some great Persecution stirred up at Colchester against some Independent Ministers there to hinder them from preaching in their Pulpits which is a most notorious falshood the contrary of which is true for the Independents made a mis-rule in the very Church against Master Edwards and openly reviled him in the congregation using many rayling speeches against him and that against all the Laws of Christianitie and civilitie and had almost by their barborous carriage against him raysed a tumult in the Towne to the disturbance of them all had it not timely by the wisedome of some beene prevented So that it may easily be perceived what the Independents would doe against the Presbyterian Ministers if the authority were once wholly in their hands when they so timely begin where their faction is any thing powerfull yet such is the boldnesse or rather impudencie of these men that when they are the only Persecutors of others and the Raysers up of tumults and commotions against the faithfull Ministers of the Gospel they falsely spread it abroad that they are persecuted by us and not suffered to come in our Pulpits as my brother Burton doth here accuse the good people of Colchester and those of Alderman-bury as if they also had shut truth out of doors when notwithstanding it can by a cloud of witnesses from Colchester bee proved that the Independents made the mis-rule and that my brother Burton shut himselfe out of doores at Aldermanbury and yet hee untruly accuseth them of that crime of persecution and this is the generall practise of all the Independents falsely to accuse and calumniate their brethren and my brother Burton and Iohn Lilburne are Masters in this art and therfore surely they can be no Saints without Devils be Saints for so the holy Scripture calleth such I have cited some of my brother Burtons expressions I shall now set downe some of Iohn Lilburnes language concerning both the Ministers and beleevers of the church of England In his Letter to my brother Prynne to omit many of his rayling and violent calumnies there against the Ministers hee saith that they are the sworne enemies of Iesus Christ yea the profest enemies of their anoynted Christ and in his one of his Pamphlets which he made in prison which he lately againe set forth upon more mature deliberation hee hath many most unchristian bitter and unsavery expressions and so apparently untrue that every child can say hee is a notorious calumniator and Lyer Some of them I will here set downe amongst other things hee speaketh of the church of England and of the faithfull hee thus uttereth himselfe affirming That the Church of England is a true whorish Mother and that they that are of her were base begotten and bastardly children and that shee neither is nor never was truly married joyned or united unto Jesus Christ in that espousall band which his true churches are and ought to be bnt is one of Antichrists nationall whorish Churches and Cities spoken of Revel 16. 19. c. That the Church of England is false and Antichristian and as shee is a false and Antichristian church shee can never make true Officers and Ministers of Iesus Christ and absolutely denies that conversion and confirmation and building up in the wayes of God are wrought by the Ministry of the church of England for how saith he can they build them up in that which they themselves are ignorant of and enemies unto for as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses so doe these men also resist the truth c. and further asserteth that as hee hath taken paines by the word of God and demonstrable arguments grounded thereupon to prove the church of England antichristian so hee promiseth to all the world that hee will in the strength of the Lord of Hosts for ever separate from Church Ministry and Worship of England and all and every one of them as Antichristian and false And concludes that all the Ministers of the church of England are not true Ministers of Christ but false and Antichristian Ministers and that our
every Church that is to say in all or through all Churches these are his own words as you may see it in the third page of his wise Pamphlet So that when it makes for his turne hee can make no difference betweene the singular and the plurall yea hee translates 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 domatim that is house by house which is as much as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as houses by houses and per singulas domas for hee that saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 man by man sayes as much as men by men and therefore hee playes the Iugler and cheate thus to cloud the light that he may put off his base wares the better and to darken the truth with his trifling about words al this to shew to the people that hee hath some skill in the Greeke and Latine because hee can write the words out of the Text which every Schoole boy can doe But I pray see how the poore creature troubles himselfe in beating the ayre hee saith it is in the Originall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 domatim they brake bread from house to house but it is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 per singulas domos that is to say they did not breake bread in all houses or through all the houses Ergo there were not many Congregations in Ierusalem which is a meere wickednesse in him to trifle thus for hee himselfe a little before translates 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 per singulat Ecclesias and here hee would make a great difference betweene the singular and the plurall when notwithstanding in the Originall there is none for in the twentieth of the Acts v. 20. there the Holy Ghost saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the plurall which is all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but if Master Knollis Interpretation be good that when the word is used in the plurall it signifies many Congregations and Assemblies then in the Church of Ephesus by his owne confession there were many Congregations and yet they all made but one Church within that Precinct and doubtlesse so it was in Ierusalem there were many Congregations there and yet they all made but one Church and the truth is so evident that Master Knollys his owne interpretation of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the singular will carry it for hee translates it domatim house by house Now I appeale to any intelligible man that knowes but the English tongue or any other language where civility dwels and barbarism is banished whether or no when the Magistrate sends Messengers or Officers to search for any Delinquents and gives them in charge to search through such a street house by house I demand I say whether the Messengers by this their warrant are not in joyned to search every house in that street whether house by house be not to be understood every house and all the houses in that street and when the Officers returne againe to the Magistrate relate unto him that according to his command order they have diligently searched house by house through the street doe they not I pray in this acknowledge that they have searched every house in that street yea all the houses all men that know any thing in reason know that house by house in every street or in every Citie is as much as all houses in that street and in all houses in that Citie Now when the word of God sayes Acts 2. that the Christians in Jerusalem and Beleevers brake bread from house to house and when in the 5. of the Acts v. 42. it is recorded that the Apostles daily in the Temple and in every house or from house to house or house by house as Mr. Knollys would have it ceased not to teach and preach Iesus Christ It is manifestly apparent that in every of those houses and in all those houses they had an Assembly or Congregation of beleevers and for ought any thing can be said to the contrary there might be as many congregations then in Ierusalem as they had Ministers and Pastors there which were in abundance For none but the Ministers might administer the Sacrament of Baptisme and the Lords Supper the Apostles and the Ministers of the Gospell only had the charge to feed Christs sheep and Lambes so that the sheep and lambes were not to feede their Pastor Now all the people under them were either sheepe or lambs and they were not to intermedle in those holy Ordinances to administer them though they might receive them from them and therefore what the holy Word of God relateth to us that we are bound to believe but the holy Word of God relates unto us that in Ierusalem and that in the very infancy of the Church they had congregations and Assemblies every day in many severall houses at one time yea in every house Ergo there were many Assemblies and Congregations of believers in the Church at Ierusalem and that in the very infancy of it and this Master Knollys doth acknowledge for he confesseth they had their meetings day by day and house by house that is to say every day and in every house they had their Congregations in Ierusalem and so he is constrained to confesse that which he had so often and peremptorily denied but such is the force power and efficacy of truth as it will breake out of the mouth of the enemie and fly in their faces for Master Knollys doth confesse that besides their meetings in the Temple and in Solomons Porch and that daily they had their meetings also house by house Domatim so that their meetings and congregations in Jerusalem were numberlesse if they were from house to house But if neither the Scripture nor his owne confession can convince his error at least let his owne Words take some place with him who in the 23. pag. of his learned answer hath these expressions Some godly and learned men of approved gifts came to sojourne in this city and preached the Word both publickly and from house to house and daily in the Temples and in every house they ceased not to Teach and Preach Iesus Christ and some of them have dwelt in their owne houses and received all that came unto them c. Thus Mr Knollys speaks and for proof of what he saith he quotes the very places of Scriptures in the Margent of his booke that I produced as Act. 2. ver 46. Acts the 5. 42. Acts 20. vers 20. Where from house to house and in in every house in his dialect is all one which it was not when I quoted it out of the Word of God And very reason and common experience teaches all men that wheresoever the Independents have their meeting houses they have a Church or congregation there and as many meeting houses as they have so many Churches ordinatly they have witnesse Toleration-streete which they call the holy streete I meane Coleman-streete which an Independent one day meeting me passing through it tould me was the Saints streete
and that their were more precious Churches in that street then in all England besides and he did confidently believe it And I was no sooner passed from him but turning on the right hand I saw many of the Independents going into the Nags-head a Taverne a little above Coleman-streete there they call their Parliament and make Committees and Chayre-men for preparing of businesses for the great Councell and for the advising of them what to do and there they order how they will deale with the Presbyterians and this is one of their meeting houses also whither the Saints resort upon all occasions to consult together about the affairs of the Church State and that is the holy drinking Schoole of the Saints for they say they are all Saints and to the pure all things are pure and therefore they must have a pure drinking Schoole But passing from Toleration-streete and leaving their drinking schoole and they together Let us consider their practices and what Master Knollys saith who tells us that some godly and learned men of approved gifts came to Sojourne in this City and preached the Word of God both publickly and from house to house and daily in the Temples and in every house they cease not to teach and preach Jesus Christ I demande of any of the Independents now whether or no wheresoever any of those gifted men preach they have not a congregation to preach to and whether or no wheresoever any of them hath a gatherd Church as they call it he hath not there â—n his meeting house a Congregation and assembly and whether or no wheresoever they have preaching of the Word and breaking of bread amongst them they have not a Church or Congregation there I am confident they will none of them deny it Yea they will acknowledge that in as many places as the Word of God is preached amongst them and the Sacraments administred that in all those they have a severall Church congregation and assembly this very reason will dictate unto any man And therefore if in this City there be many Congregations and assemblies in all those places where they preach publikely and from house to house and in every house not onely because Mr Knollys saith it but because every mans reason will convince him of it after the same manner every man will conclude That in the Church of Ierusalem there was many Congregations and Assemblies for the Scripture relates That the word of God was preached publikely in the Temple and in Solomons Porch and that the Saints brake bread from house to house and that the Apostles ceased not to teach and preach Iesus Christ in every house and therefore all Christians are bound to beleeve this because the mouth of the Lord hath spoke it yea and it is acknowledged by Master Knollys from all which it doth now evidently appear to all the world that there were many Congregations and Assemblyes of beleevers in the Church of Ierusalem which Mr Knollys notwithstanding doth wickedly deny affirming there were no more beleevers in Ierusalem then could all meet in any one place and so he not onely contradicts himselfe and fights against the very light of reason but which is more he gives the spirit of God the lye and therefore he ought by all those of the seven Churches to be severely dealt with as a wicked impostor and deceiver and ought indeeed to be thrown out of all their Congregations as a jugler and a false prophet Having thus evidently proved that there were many Congregations in the church of Jerusalem before the persecution I will by Gods assistance make good that there were also many Assemblyes under the persecution and after the persecution and this I do the rather undertake because some of the brethren have said that howsoever it could be proved that before the persecution there were many severall Assemblies yet by reason of the dispersion of the beleevers the Church of Ierusalem was so wasted and scattered that there were no more left then could all meet in one Congregation And were it so that after the scattering of the Beleevers and Christians in Ierusalem it could never be evinced and made good that there were more then could meet together in one place yet all this were nothing for the enervating of the argument for we must ever look upon the first constitution and government of the Church and what it was originally and by divine constitution and not what it was accidentally and through persecution and oppression and by the violence of men for governments of Churches are often changed from their Primordiall State through many casualties as it happened often in the Church of the Jewes and therefore in all reformations things are to be reduced to the first rule and originall pattern and we are not to look upon them as by occasion they vary and change through the injury of the times And therefore if we look into the Church of Ierusalem as she was in her youth and in her most flourishing age we shall finde her consisting of divers Congregations and many Assemblies and all them governed by a Common Councell and joynt consent of a Presbytery which must be the patterne of all Church Government to the end of the world if wee will in our Reformation conforme our selves to Gods Ordinance and to the first constitution But because I say they think it so difficult a thing to prove many Congregations in Jerusalem after the persecution I will now God willing make it evident and not onely after the persecution but even in and under the persecution and I will do it first out of that very place our brethren bring against us and by which they labour to evince the contrary the place is in the 8. of the Acts verse 1 2 4. In these words And at that time there was a great persecution against the Church which was at Ierusalem and they were all scattered abroad through the Regions of Iudea and Samaria except the Apostles verse 3. As for Saul he made havock of the Church entring into every house and haling men and women committed them to prison Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word From whence the brethren gather that there were no more beleevers left than could meet in one Congregation Before I come to prove my Assertion I must give some Reasons to evince and make good that this dispersion and scattering of the Beleevers here spoken of was not so generall and universall and so great as that there might not yet remain more Congregations in Jerusalem and more people then could possibly meete in any one place or two for persecution is the bellowes of the Gospell which blowes every spark into a flame so that this their division proved their multiplication at home and abroad as wee shall see after I have set down my Arguments and Reasons so that it was no cause why we should conceive that there were fewer assemblies in the Church of