Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	truth_n	zeal_n	zealous_a	18	3	8.8792	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A11532	A conference betvvixt a mother a devout recusant, and her sonne a zealous protestant seeking by humble and dutifull satisfaction to winne her vnto the trueth, and publike worship of god established nowe in England. Gathered by him whose hearts desire is, that all may come to the knowledge of God, and be saued.; Conference betwixt a mother a devout recusant, and her sonne a zealous protestant.	Savage, Francis, d. 1638.	1600 (1600)	STC 21781; ESTC S106433	62,438	140

A CONFERENCE BETVVIXT A MOTHER A DEVOVT RECVSANT AND HER Sonne a zealous protestant seeking by humble and dutifull satisfaction to winne her vnto the trueth and publike worship of god established nowe in England Gathered by him whose hearts desire is that all may come to the knowledge of God and be saued 2. Corinth 11.1 Would to God you coulde a little tollerate my foolishnesse yea indeede beare with me For I am zealous ouer you with a godly zeale PRINTED BY IOHN LEGAT Printer to the Vniversitie of Cambrige 1600. TO THE REVErend father in God my VERY GOOD LORD GERVASE by the prouidence of God Lord Bishop of Worcester WHat maketh me willing to publish this pamplet your L. will easily iudge by the argument what helpes I haue had therein so many as haue hard your Lorships publike exhortations or priuate conferences in matter of religion will as easily coniecture it being indeede nothing els but a gleaning of your L. great haruest and a cluster of your owne vintage And therefore what cause I haue to sue for your honourable approbation I neede not proclaime vnto the world saue that I must needes confesse my selfe by many many bonds more then I may well make knowne to be tyed in all duty vnto your L. to whome next vnder almightie God and her sacred Maiestie I owe whatsoeuer I haue besides this corruptible man I may not particularize your honourable and innumerable fauours least I exceede the limits of a preface and breake the bonds of sobrietie and so incurre the iust displeasure of your Lordship Only I craue pardon herein to acknowledge that as once in the Vniuersity by your Lordships happie hand I was brought into the sheepfolde of the great sheapheard so in your honours seruice I haue beene led continually by the same gratious hand in and out to the greene pastures and pleasant streames of euer liuing water and learned that which may stead me all my life long and in the worlde to come for euer it I be not wanting vnto my selfe Wherefore may it please your Lordship to vouchsafe me your wonted honourable fauour to couer whatsoeuer my defects in this attempt and to accept this testimonie of my true and due affection to your L. I shall be still more and more bounde and I hope alwaies mindfull to bowe the knees of my heart vnto the highest whose recompence is a sufficient reward for the continuāce of his gratious eye vpon you and all your honourable affaires for euer Your L. humble chaplaine Francis Sauage To the Reader LActantius for eloquence in the publishing of gods holy truth writeth eloquētly Licèt veritas posset sine eloquentiâ defendi vt est à multis saepè defensa tamen claritate ac nitore sermonis illustranda quodāmodo disserenda est vt potentius in animos influat Wherein he seemeth somewhat to censure all those that want this skill but by a little transposition we may keepe his meaning and turne the sentence thus Although its meete with perspicuitie and purity of speech to illustrate and set forth the trueth and so as it were 〈◊〉 104 with skilfull hand to sowe it that it may more forcibly flowe into the mindes of men yet may it be maintained well without eloquence and ornament of wordes which is a sufficient motiue to all honest mindes which wish well to the prosperitie of Sion to put to their helping hands though weake and feeble in the spirituall building of Gods house Yet a greater incouragemēt is that which S. Hierom saith Fides pura non quaerit strophas argumenta verborum The purity of faith hunteth not after coulourable sleightes and wil●e wordy arguments But Tertullians speech in some sort enioyneth this service and exacteth it as a dutie Veritas amat Spiritus sancti figuram ●●ra Valent Orientem amat nihil erubescit nisi solummodò abscondi The trueth loues the light the morning starre breaking of the day shee is abashed at nothing saue only the couer and night of darkenes and obscurity And sure howe homely soeuer shee seeme in the eies of some and in regard of the habite wherewith shee is some times attired yet beeing alwaies in her selfe like the kings daughter all glorious within and in the estimate of the wise full of maiestie and grace and iustified euer of all her children shee commeth forth like the Sunne rising as a bridegrome out of his chamber and as a giant readie to runne his course Wherefore gentle Reader accept in good part I pray thee this my seruice and goodwill woone by these inducements and if this man of might meete thee in any corner of this simple cotage looke not vpon the outward earthen walls but cast thine eie within vpon the prince himselfe yeelding thine homage of reuerence and obedience euer due Fran. Sauage August de Trin. lib. 1. cap. 2. 3. Nec pigebit me sicubi haesito quaerere nec pudebit sicubi erro discere Proinde quisquis haec legit vbi paritèr certus est pergat mecum vbi paritèt haesitat quaerat mecum vbi errorem suum cogno scit redeat adme vbi meum reuocet me Ita ingreaiamur simul charitatis viam Psal 104. tē●entes adeum de quo dictum est Quaerite faciē eius semper A DIALOGVE BETVVIXT A Mother and her sonne being a student in the vniversity come ouer into the country to see his friends profitable to be be read of all that desire to be satisfied touching matter of religion and comming to Church M. COme Sonne you shall goe with me to your fathers farme this faire day is very fit to walke abroad and moderate walking is comended of all as good phisicke S. I will gladly attend you Mother both in regard of your pleasure and this fit opportunity for the exercise of our bodies which is the best phisicke that many a poore scholler hath in the vniuersity but I hope the farme you goe vnto is not far off because you speake of mod●rate walking M What knowe you not your fathers houses this is the good that cometh of your long absence your fathers care to send you so farre away which hath much grieued me and in which respect I haue often reques●●● him ●o send for you home S Good Mother I see and feele to my 〈…〉 I haue euer done your tend●● 〈◊〉 and bowels of louing kinden●●●●●wards me and I must needes acknowledge my fathers great loue euen in this which you seeme to mislike that he sent me to the vniuersity for sure he did it in his speciall care ouer me and in wisdome for my safety M. Safety I pray you from what would your mothers eye haue done you any harme S. I would be very loath mother to offend you and therefore if I haue spoken any thing vnadvisedly I humbly craue pardon M. Nay sonne we haue not beene so long a sunder to fall out at first and therefore I will not be offended

and nowe concerning substance Wilt thou be baptized in this faith was not meant of the errour of the time but of this faith now rehearsed contained in the 12. articles which except then it was some other because it was latin and nowe is saide in English we see plainely they were then baptized in the same faith with vs and that was a right true Catholicke faith and not the Romish errours that then ruled and were receiued of the state Our godfathers also holding the same faith to wit of the tvvelue articles and vve being christened in the faith of our godfathers godmothers so long as vve hold and continue in this our creede vve continue in the same faith if our godfathers and godmothers deceiued by the time held any other points in deede and trueth not agreeing vvith these 12. articles vve ansvver that the sacrament of our baptisme doth not binde vs in all points to the opinions of them who baptised vs but in the faith of him in whose name we were baptised and to the doctrine of the 12. articles then propounded vnto vs for as if a man were christened of an heretique the baptisme notwithstanding were good and the partie baptised not bound to hold that heresie so if our godfathers o● fathers which christened vs were taught any thing not consonant to Christian doctrine neither is our baptisme worse for that nor we bound to follow them in all points especially beeing caried away vnwittingly by subtill deceiuers from the truth Thus good mother is your doubt truely answered and your heart I trust assured that by receiuing this faith novv established through her Maiesties most blessed hand in England you shall not depart from your vovve made at the some but keepe it nor svvarue from your faith vvherein you vvere baptized and vvhich your godfathers and godmothers helde but cleaue fast vnto it to Gods great glorie and your ovvn soules health M. Truely sonne you haue more satisfied me then I thought in this matter any man liuing could haue done And I see there is great mistaking in many matters for vvant of loue one to endure talke with another Whilest I liue therefore I will neuer refuse conference as I haue done and I wish with all mine heart that others whome I knowe woulde doe the like S. Yea mother but the enemie knowing the good hereof and what a fall his kingdome may thus take laboureth to stop that willingnes in men and womē trained to their errors by taking othes of them not to doe it threatning all manner of danger to thē if they doe it and you would blesse your selfe to heare what grosse praises they vtter of ignorance and simple obedience without ground or reason saying it belongeth no more to you or any other to aske a reason of their teachings then it doth to the horse to know why his master turneth his head this way or that M. Mary God forbidde It is but a slaunder I hope as we are to light of beleefe on both sides S. Truely Mother no slaunder nor mean mans doctrine but a great Cardinall of Rome although in this grosly carnall the Cardinall Cusanus The place is knowen and cannot be denied Excitationum lib. 6. pag. 547. I shall shewe you his wordes if I can borrowe the booke M There is a story as I remember in the olde testament of one that would condition to haue their right eies if he made peace with them Surely this is to take our right eies from vs not to suffer vs to vse reason and to aske for a satisfaction where we doubt True it is Mother It was Naash the Ammonite that so answered the men of Iabesh Gilead 1. Sam. c. 11.2 and you most rightly apply it full easie was it to rule and ouer rule to mocke and abuse the strong Sampson when once they had put out both his eies To tell vs that ignorance is the mother of deuotion when the Councell saith it is the mother of errour to tell vs that pearles may not be cast before swine the people may not haue the scriptures in english whē it is spoken to all Ioh. 5. Search the scriptures to tell vs we will become heretiques if we meddle with the scriptures when Christ saith you erre because you know not the scriptures surely this is not to wish vs to see but to wish end●uour both to make and keepe vs blinde But I trust the god of all mercie and goodnesse will both giue sight and keepe sight in despite of all their fetching pollicies M. To returne then where we left you say our fathers held the faith of the 12. articles and were baptized in the same as we also are so that we forsake not their faith or the faith of our baptisme if we embrace the gospell nowe preached because in nothing it is contrarie to these articles notwithstanding you say they were happely touched with some errours of the time I pray you therefore what shall we say of them were they damned or saued if they were damned all why may not we doe as they did and hope of like mercy god being the same still and as rich in goodnesse and grace as euer S. Your question containeth two points one of the saluation or damnation of our fathers another of the imitation of them what is beco● of our father In both which I shall indeauour to giue you a tru answer And touching the first I say we ought not to sit in iudgement vpon our fathers for God was able to preserue them euen in that darke time wherein they liued as he preserued the bush in the middest of the flame Daniel in the Lyons den the three children in the furnace and the Israelites in the red sea for all these were in mans eye subiect to daunger and yet by a powerfull hand of an omnipotent god saued And by the manifolde graces of god vouchsafed vnro our fathers we may comfortably hope that almighty God was willing also to preserue thē vnto an euerlasting inheritance and did that which he was able to doe vnto them for they were good mē and good women in their times charitable and merciful iust and true in their dealings their honest word was better then many a mans bond nowe they brought vp their children in honest labour not in idlenesse and vanitie they were giuen to hospitalitie they hated pride loued plainnes they loued the Church went duly vnto it in a worde as one saith of them though they had minùs scientiae lesse knowledge yet they had plus conscientiae more conscience wherfore that god that thus wrought in them by his guiding grace I may well and cheerefully hope was further also good vnto them and had mercy vpon them pulling them out of the fire as S. Iude saith yea I haue heard of some that in those darke times deliuered to their children some little treatises of Wickleff and badde them keepe them secret and yet reade

by integritie of lawe In a worde Aliter non persequimur vos nisi quemadmodum veritas persequitur falsit atem We persecute you no otherwise but as trueth persecuteth falshood namely to saluation not to destruction M. Surely your answeres I must confesse are farre otherwise then either I looked for at your handes or thought coulde haue beene giuen in your cause Wherefore I say againe we on our side are greatly wronged when we are forbidden to read your bookes or to conferre with you But yet if some learned man were here to dispute with you happely he would contrarie this which to me seemeth plaine S. Surely mother euen this also which you name is a good point be touched For indeede it is an vsuall shift of men and women thus giuen to say I cannot answere you but if such and such were here they would and would God we might haue some disputation then should wee see which part were better Yea such bragges are made by some learned of your side to blinde the eyes of the people as if either there neuer had bin triall of their strēgth this waie or as if they alwaies had had the vpper hand in disputation when God knoweth and the world can witnesse herein their weaknes and great foiles to the glorie of God and victory of his truth in the hearts of many thousandes both men and vvomen For confirmation whereof let me remember you of the disputation at Berne in Heluetia in king Henry the 8 his daies which is thus published in Chronicle to the worldes knowledge There was in ☞ the yeare of our Lord 1527. in the moneth of december order taken by the senate and people of Berne whose power amongst all the Switzers chiefly excelleth in regard of the varience of religion that then was and still more more increaseth that there should be a publike disputation in that cittie and to that ende they sent forth writings of the same and called thither all the Bishops bordering neere about them as the bishop of Constance Basil Sedune Lausanna warning them to come both themselues and to bring with them their devines or els to loose all such professions as they had lying within the boundes of their precinct They also appointed learned men amōgst them preachers of the Gospell to be readie to dispute against all commers in defence of their doctrine prescribing the disputation to be decided onely by the authority of the olde and newe testament They graunted safe conduct to all that would come They appointed likewise that all things should be done modestly without iniurie and brawling words and that euery one should haue leaue to speake his minde freely and with such deliberation that euerie mans saying might be receiued by the notarie and penned And to the end men might come thither better prepared they caused their ministers to publish such questions as they should dispute on before hand in writing that euery man might studie to say what he coulde against them and they were tenne in number 1. The true Church riseth out of Gods worde continueth in the same and heareth the voice of none other 2. The true Church maketh no lawes without the word 3. Traditions binde not but as firre as they are agreeable to the written word 4. Christ onely hath satisfied for the sinnes of the vvorld and therefore if any make any other waie the same denieth Christ 5. The body and blood of Christ cannot be receiued really and corporally by the testimony of scripture 6. There is no place of purging after this ☞ life and therfore all dirges prayers ceremonies lampes tapers c. bestowed for the dead profitte nothing 7. Christ onely is to be prayed vnto as the mediator of mankind to God the father 8. The masse is wicked and derogatory to Christs sacrifice offered for vs. 9. Images ought not to be set vp in Churches and praied vnto 10. Marriage is allowed by God vnto all degrees These things I say thus agreed vpon before hand were sent abroad to al places and the day appointed the 7 of Ianuarie for the disputation to beginne At which day nowe see the courage of Catholicks not one of the bishops before named came neuerthelesse the citty of Basil Zuricke Schasuse Abbacelle Sangallium Mallusia with the neighbours of Rhetia also they of Strawsburge Vlmes Ausburge Lindaue Constance and Isue sent thither their Embassadours The doctors of Berne began the disputation whereat were present Zuinglius Oecolampadius Bucerus Capito and Blaurecus with others One the other side of them that were opponents the chiefe was Conzadus and Tregerus a frier Augustine who no way able to prooue his cause out of the olde and newe testament as was appointed and decreed at first desired that he might alledge Doctours which the moderators refusing to graunt because it was contrarie to the order appointed he to his great shame and to the preiudice of all his side departed out of the place and would dispute no more The disputation endured 19. daies and in the ende by the greater part of that assembly the protestantes hadde the victorie and the Papists the foile And it was agreed vpon that the themes before mentioned were all true and agreeable to Gods holy worde that they shoulde be ratified and proclaimed according to promise and that masses altars images c. should in all places be abolished So they were at Constance Berne and Geneva they causing the day and yeare of this reformation from poperie to Christianity to be ingrauen in a pillar with golden letters for a perpetuall memorie to all posteritie This was anno 1528. After the rumour of this disputation Reformation followed at Strawsburge Basil and other places to Gods great glorie the comfort of his people the true witnessing to the world what strength Romish Catholicks haue in disputation when they are desired to keepe to the scriptures which onely is the ground of trueth and conscience I may not repeat others at large but blessed be God the like triall of them was made and the like foile giuen them at Wittenberge and Ravensburge at Ausburge at Spire at Wormes at Pois and here in England at London at Cambridge at Oxford and in private houses and consistories of Bishops often That notable seruice of Beza at Pois gone through the worlde when the Cardinall of Lotharinge wished that either Beza had beene dumme or they his auditours and aduersaries dea●e will witnesse for euer what pith popish falshood hath had against Christian trueth held and taught by protestants whē they came to disputation Reade our owne Chronicles of the cowardly refusall of the popish Bishops to dispute at the happy entrance of her Maiesty to the Crowne howe also they behaued thēselues in Queene Maries time when one of them said vve had the word but they had the sword c. Indeede indeede the sword and the fire are their best arguments and in blood they build whatsoeuer they build Neuer neuer therefore let them