in the Property of the Peers and Church whose Lands five parts of six have been alienated and mostly is come into the same hands with those of the King and Peers have inherited likewise according to the course of nature their Power But being kept from it by the established Government which not being changed by any lawfull Acts of State remains still in being formally whereas virtually it is abolished so that for want of outward Orders and Provisions the people are kept from the Exercise of that Power which is faln to them by the Law of Nature and those who cannot by that Law pretend to the share they had do yet enjoy it by vertue of that Right which is now ceased as having been but the natural Effect of a Cause that is no longer in being and you know sublata causa tâ—llitur I cannot say that the greater part of the people do know this their condition but they find very plainly that they want something which they ought to have and this makes them lay often the blame of their unsetledness upon wrong causes but however are altogether unquiet and restless in the Intervals of Parliament and when the King pleases to assemble one spend all their time in Complaints of the Inexecution of the Law of the multiplication of an Infinity of Grievances of Mis-spending the Publick Monies of the danger our Religion is in by practices to undermine it and the State by endeavours to bring in Arbitrary Power and in questioning great Officers of State as the Causers and Promoters of all these Abuses in so much that every Parliament seems a perfect State of War wherein the Commons are tugging and contending for their Right very justly and very honourably yet without coming to a Point So that the Court sends them packing and governs still worse and worse in the Vacancies being necessitated thereunto by their despair of doing any good in Parliament and therefore are forced to use horrid shifts to subsist without it and to keep it off without ever considering that if these Counsellers understood their Trade they might bring the Prince and People to such an Agreement in Parliament as might repair the broken and shipwrack'd Government of England and in this secure the Peace Quiet and Prosperity of the People the Greatness and Happiness of the King and be themselves not only out of present danger which no other course can exempt them from but be Renowned to all Posterity Noble Ven. I beseech you Sir how comes it to pass that neither the King nor any of his Counsellors could ever come to find out the truth of what you discourse for I am fully convinced it is as you say Eng. Gent. I cannot resolve you that but this is certain they have never endeavoured a Cure though possibly they might know the Disease as fearing that though the Effects of a Remedy would be as was said very advantagious both to King and People and to themselves yet possibly such a Reformation might not consist with the Merchandize they make of the Princes Favour nor with such Bribes Gratuities and Fees as they usually take for the dispatch of all Matters before them And therefore our Counsellors have been so far from suggesting any such thing to their Master that they have opposed and quashed all Attempts of that kind as they did the worthy Proposals made by certain Members of that Parliament in the beginning of King Iames's Reign which is yet called the Undertaking Parliament These Gentlemen considering what we have been discoursing of viz. That our old Government is at an end had framed certain Heads which if they had been proposed by that Parliament to the King and by him consented to would in their Opinion have healed the Breach and that if the King would perform his part that House of Commons would undertake for the Obedience of the People They did believe that if this should have been moved in Parliament before the King was acquainted with it it would prove Abortive and therefore sent three of their number to his Majesty Sir Iames a Croft Grandfather or Father to the present Bishop of Hereford Thomas Harley who was Ancestor to the Honourable Family of that Name is Herefordshire and Sir Henry Nevill who had been Ambassador from Queen Elizabeth to the French King These were to open the matter at large to the King and to procure his leave that it might be proposed in Parliament which after a very long Audience and Debate that wise Prince consented to with a promise of Secresie in the mean time which they humbly begged of His Majesty However this took Vent and the Earl of Northampton of the House of Howard who ruled the Rost in that time having knowledg of it engaged Sir R. Weston afterwards Lord Treasurer and Earl of Portland to impeach these Undertakers in Parliament before they could move their matters which he did the very same day accompanying his Charge which was endeavouring to alter the established Government of England with so eloquent an Invective that if one of them had not risen and made the House acquainted with the whole Series of the Affair they must have been in danger of being impeached by the Commons but however it broke their designe which was all that Northampton and Weston desired and prevented Posterity from knowing any of the Particulars of this Reformation for nothing being moved nothing could remain upon the Journal So that you see our Predecessors were not ignorant altogether of our condition though the Troubles which have befallen this poor Kingdom since have made it much more apparent for since the Determination of that Parliament there has not been one called either in that King's Reign or his Son 's or since that hath not been dissolved abruptly whilst the main businesses and those of most concern to the publick were depending and undecided And although there hath happened in this Interim a bloody War which in the Close of it changed the whole Order and Foundation of the Polity of England and that it hath pleased God to restore it again by his Majesty's happy Return so that the old Government is alive again yet it is very visible that its deadly Wound is not healed but that we are to this day tugging with the same difficulties managing the same Debates in Parliament and giving the same disgusts to the Court and hopes to the Country which our Ancestors did before the Year 1640. whilst the King hath been forced to apply the same Remedy of Dissolution to his two first Parliaments that his Father used to his four first and King Iames to his three last contrary to his own visible Interest and that of his people and this for want of having Counsellors about him of Abilities and Integrity enough to discover to him the Disease of his Government and the Remedy which I hope when we meet to Morrow Morning you will come prepared to enquire into for the Doctor says he will
an Oath to be true Vassals and Tenants to their Lords and to pay their Rents and perform their Services and upon failure to forfeit their Estates and these Tenants were divided according to their Habitations into several Mannors in every one of which there was a Court kept twice every year where they all were to appear and to be admitted to their several Estates and to take the Oath above mentioned All these Peers did likewise hold all their Demesnes as also all their Mannors of the Prince to whom they swore Allegiance and Fealty There were besides these Freemen or Francklins other Tenants to every Lord who were called Villains who were to perform all servile Offices and their Estates were all at the Lâ—â—â—â— disposal when he pleased these consisted mostly of such of the former Inhabitants of these Countries as were not either destroyed or driven out and possibly of others who were Servants amongst them before they came from their own Countries Perhaps thus much might have been unnecessary to be said considering that these Lords Tenants and Courts are yet extant in all the Kingdoms in Europe but that to a Gentleman of Venice where there are none of these things and where the Goths never were something may be said in excuse for me Noble Ven. 'T is true Sir we fled from the Goths betimes but yet in those Countries which we recovered since in Terra firma we found the Footsteps of these Lords and Tenures and their Titles of Counts though being now Provinces to us they have no influence upon the Government as I suppose you are about to prove they have in thâ—se parts Eng. Gent. You are right Sir for the Governments of France Spain England and all other Countries where these People setled were fram'd accordingly It is not my business to describe particularly the distinct Forms of the several Governments in Europe which do derive from these People for they may differ in some of their Orders and Laws though the Foundation be in them all the same this would be unnecessary they being all extant and so well known and besides little to my purpose excepting to shew where they have declined from their first Institution and admitted of some change France and Poland have not nor as I can learn ever had any Free-men below the Nobility that is had no Yeomen but all are either Noble or Villains therefore the Lands must have been Originally given as they now remain into the hands of these Nobles But I will come to the Administration of the Government in these Countries and first say wherein they all agree or did at least in their Institution which is That the Soveraign power is in the States assembled together by the Prince in which he presides these make Laws Levy Money Redress Grievances punish great Officers and the like These States consist in some places of the Prince and Nobility onely as in Poland and anciently in France before certain Towns for the encouraging of Trade procured Priviledges to send Deputies which Deputies are now called the third Estate and in others consist of the Nobility and Commonalty which latter had and still have the same right to Intervene and Vote as the great ones have both in England Spain and other Kingdomes Doct. But you say nothing of the Clergy I see you are no great friend to them to leave them out of your Politicks Eng. Gent. The truth is Doctor I could wish there had never been any the purity of Christian Religion as also the good and orderly Government of the World had been much better provided for without them as it was in the Apostolical time when we heard nothing of Clergy But my omitting their Reverend Lordships was no neglect for I meant to come to them in order for you know that the Northern People did not bring Christianity into these parts but found it here and were in time converted to it so that there could be no Clergy at the first but if I had said nothing at all of this Race yet I had committed no Solecism in the Politicks for the Bishops and great Abbots intervened in the States here upon the same FoundaÌ„tion that the other Peers do viz. for their great possessions and the dependence their Tenants and Vassals have upon them although they being a People of that great sanctity and knowledg scorn to intermix so much as Titles with us profane Lay-Ideots and therefore will be called Lords Spiritual But you will have a very venerable opinion of them if you do but consider how they came by these great possessions which made them claim a third part of the Government And truely not unjustly by my rule for I believe they had no less at one time than a third part of the Lands in most of these Countries Noble Ven. Pray how did they acquire these Lands was it not here by the Charitable donation of pious Christians as it was elsewhere Eng. Gent. Yes certainly very pious men some of them might be well meaning people but still such as were cheated by these holy men who told them perpetually both in publick and private that they represented God upon Earth being Ordained by Authority from him who was his Viceroy here and that what was given to them was given to God and he would repay it largely both in this World and the next This wheedle made our barbarous Ancestors newly Instructed in the Christian Faith if this Religion may be called so and sucking in this foolish Doctrine more than the Doctrine of Christ so zealous to these Vipers that they would have pluckt out their eyes to serve them much more bestow as they did the fruitfullest and best situate of their possessions upon them Nay some they perswaded to take upon them their Callings vow Chastity and give all they had to them and become one of them amongst whom I believe they found no more sanctity than they left in the World But this is nothing to another trick they had which was to insinuate into the most notorious and execrable Villains with which that Age abounded Men who being Princes and other great Men for such were the Tools they work'd with had treacherously poisoned or otherwise murdered their nearest Relations Fathers Brothers Wives to reign or enjoy their Estates These they did perswade into a belief that if they had a desire to be sav'd notwithstanding their execrable Villanies they need but part with some of those great possessions which they had acquired by those acts to their Bishopricks or Monasteries and they would pray for their Souls and they were so holy and acceptable to God that he would deny them nothing which they immediately performed so great was the ignorance and blindness of that Age and you shall hardly find in the story of those times any great Monastery Abbey or other Religious House in any of these Countries I speak confidently as to what concerns our own Saxons that had not its Foundation from some
such Original Doct. A worthy beginning of a worthy Race Noble Ven. Sir you maintain a strange Position here That it had been better there had been no Clergy Would you have had no Gospel preached no Sacraments no continuance of Christian Religion in the World or do you think that these things could have been without a Succession of the true Priesthood or as you call it of true Ministry by means of Ordination do's not your own Church hold the same Eng. Gent. You will know more of my Church when I have told you what I find the word Church to signifie in Scripture which is to me the only rule of Faith Worship and Manners neither do I seek these aditional helps of Fathers Councels or Ecclesiastical history much less Tradition for since it is said in the word of God itself That Antichrist did begin to work even in those days I can easily believe that he had brought his Work to some perfection before the word Church was by him applied to the Clergy I shall therefore tell you what I conceive that Church Clergy and Ordination signified in the Apostolical times I find then the word Church in the New Testament taken but in two sences the first for the Vniversal Invisible Church called sometimes of the First-born that is the whole number of the true Followers of Christ in the World where-ever resident or into what part soever dispersed The other signification of Church is an Assembly which though it be sometimes used to express any Meetings even unlawful tumultuous ones as well in Scripture as prophane Authors yet it is more frequently understood for a gathering together to the Duties of Prayer Preaching and Breaking of Bread and the whole Number so Congregated is both in the Acts of the Apostles and in their holy Epistles called the Church nor is there the least colour for appropriating that word to the Pastors and Deacons who since the Corruptions of Christian Religion are called Clergy which word in the Old Testament is used sometimes for Gods whole People and sometimes for the Tribe of Levi out of which the Priests were chosen for the word signifies a Lot so â—â— Dispencer of the Christian Faith And I cannot sufficiently admire why our Clergy who very justly refuse to believe the Miracle which is pretended to be wrought in Transubstantiation because they see both the Wafer and the Wine to have the same Substance and the same Accidents after the Priest has mumbled words over those Elements as they had before and yet will believe that the same kind of Spell or Charm in Ordination can have the Efficacy to Metamorphose a poor Lay-Ideot into a Heavenly Creature notwithstanding that we find in them the same humane Nature and the same Necessities of it to which they were subject before such Transformation nay the same Debauch Profanness Ignorance and Disability to preach the Gospel Noble Ven. Sir this discourse is very new to me I must confess I am much inclined to joyn with you in believing that the power Priests Exercise over Mankind with the Iurisdiction they pretend to over Princes and States may be a usurpation but that they should not have a Divine Call to serve at the Altar or that any person can pretend to perform those Sacred Functions without being duly Ordained seems very strange Eng. Gent. I am not now to discourse of Religion it is never very civil to do so in Conversation of persons of a different belief neither can it be of any benefit towards a Roman Catholick for if his Conscience should be never so cleerly convinc'd he is not yet Master of his own Faith having given it up to his Church of whom he must ask leave to be a Convert which he will be sure never to obtain But if you have the Curiosity when you come amongst the learned in your own Country for amongst our Ordination-Mongers there is a great scarcity of Letters and other good Parts you may please to take the Bible which you acknowledg to be the Word of God as well as we and intreat some of them to shew you any passage the plain and genuine sense of which can any way evince this Succession this Ordination or this Priesthood we are now speaking of and when you have done if you will let your own excellent Reason and Discourse judg and not your Priest who is too much concerned in point of Interest I make no doubt but you will be convinced that the pretence to the dispensing of Divine things by virtue of a humane Constitution and so ridiculous a one too as the Ordination practised by your Bishops and ours who descend and succeed from one and the same Mother is as little Justifiable by Scripture and Reason and full as great a Cheat and Vsurpation as the Empire which the Ecclesiasticks pretend to over the Consciences and persons of men and the Exemption from all Secular power Noble Ven. Well Sir though neither my Faith nor my Reason can come up to what you hold yet the Novelty and the grace of this Argument has delighted me extreamly and if that be a Sin as I fear it is I must confess it to my Priest but I ask your pardon first for putting you upon this long Deviation Eng. Gent. Well this Digression is not without its use for it will shorten our business which is grown longer than I thought it would have been for I shall mention the Clergy no more but when-ever I speak of Peerage pray take notice that I mean both Lords Spiritual and Temporal since they stand both upon the same foot of Property But if you please I will fall immediately to discourse of the Government of England and say no more of those of our Neighbours than what will fall in by the way or be hinted to me by your Demands for the time runs away and I know the Doctor must be at home by noon where he gives daily charitable audience to an Infinity of poor people who have need of his help and who send or come for it not having the confidence to send for him since they have nothing to give him though he be very liberal too of his Visits to such where he has any knowledg of them But I spare his Modesty which I see is concerned at the Just Testimony I bear to his Charity The Soveraign Power of England then is in King Lords and Commons The Parliaments as they are now constituted that is the assigning a choice to such a Number of Burroughs as also the manner and form of Elections and Returns did come in as I suppose in the time of Henry the third where now our Statute-Book begins and I must confess I was inclined to believe that before that time our Yeomanry or commonalty had not formally assembled in Parliament but been virtually included and represented by the Peers upon whom they depended but I am fully convinced that it was otherwise by the learned Discourses lately
five or six Thousand pounds a year as it is probable you have and keep forty Servants and at length by your neglect and the industry and thrift of your Domesticks you sell one Thousand to your Steward another to your Clerk of the Kitchen another to your Bayliff till all were gone can you believe that these Servants when they had so good Estates of their own and you nothing left to give them would continue to live with you and to do their service as before It is just so with a whole Kingdom In our Ancestors times most of the Members of our House of Commons thought it an honour to retain to some great Lord and to wear his blew Coat And when they had made up their Lord's Train and waited upon him from his own House to the Lords House and made a Lane for him to enter and departed to sit themselves in the Lower House of Parliament as it was then and very justly called can you think that any thing could pass in such a Parliament that was not ordered by the Lords Besides these Lords were the King 's great Council in the Intervals of Parliaments and were called to advise of Peace and War and the latter was seldom made without the consent of the major part if it were not they would not send their Tenants which was all the Militia of England besides the King's tenth part Can it be believed that in those days the Commons should dislike any thing the Lords did in the Intervals or that they would have disputed their Right to receive Appeals from Courts of Equity if they had pretended to it in those days or to mend Money-bills And what is the reason but because the Lords themselves at that time represented all their Tenants that is all the People in some sort and although the House of Commons did Assemble to present their Grievances yet all great Affairs of high Importance concerning the Government was Transacted by the Lords and the War which was made to preserve it was called the Barons Wars not the War of both Houses for although in antienter times the word Baron were taken in a larger sense and comprehended the Francklins or Freemen yet who reads any History of that War shall not find that any mention is made of the concurrence of any assembly of such men but that Simon Monford Earl of Leicester and others of the great ones did by their Power and Interest manage that contest Now if this Property which is gone out of the Peerage into the Commons had passed into the King's hands as it did in Egypt in the time of Ioseph as was before said the Prince had had a very easie and peaceable reign over his own Vassals and might either have refused justly to have Assembled the Parliament any more or if he had pleased to do it might have for ever managed it as he thought fit But our Princes have wanted a Ioseph that is a wise Councellor and instead of saving their Revenue which was very great and their expences small and buying in those Purchases which the vast expences and luxury of the Lords made ready for them they have alienated their own Inheritance so that now the Crown-Lands that is the publick Patrimony is come to make up the interest of the Commons whilest the King must have a precarious Revenue out of the Peoples Purses and be beholding to the Parliament for his Bread in time of Peace whereas the Kings their Predecessors never asked Aid of his Subjects but in time of War and Invasion and this alone though there were no other decay in the Government is enough to make the King depend upon his People which is no very good condition for a Monarchy Noble Ven. But how comes it to pass that other Neighbouring Countries are in so settled a State in respect of England does their Property remain the same it was or is it come into the hands of the Prince You know you were pleased to admit that we should ask you en passant something of other Countries Eng. Gent. Sir I thank you for it and shall endeavour to satisfie you I shall say nothing of the small Princes of Germany who keep in a great measure their ancient bounds both of Government and Property and if their Princes now and then exceed their part yet it is in time of Troubles and War and things return into their right Chanel of Assembling the several States which are yet in being every where But Germany lying so exposed to the Invasion of the Turks on the one side and of the French on the other and having ever had enough to do to defend their several Liberties against the encroachments of the House of Austria in which the Imperial dignity is become in some sort Hereditary if there had been something of extraordinary power exercised of late years I can say Inter arma silent leges but besides their own particular States they have the Diet of the Empire which never fails to mediate and compose things if there be any great oppresson used by Princes to their subjects or from one Prince or State to another I shall therefore confine myself to the three great Kingdoms France Spain and Poland for as to Denmark and Sweden the first hath lately chang'd its Government and not only made the Monarchy Hereditary which was before Elective but has pull'd down the Nobility and given their Power to the Prince which how it will succeed time will shew Sweden remains in point of Constitution and Property exactly as it did anciently and is a well-Governed Kingdom The first of the other three is France of which I have spoken before and shall onely add That though it be very true that there is Property in France and yet the Government is Despotical at this present yet it is one of those violent States which the Grecians called Tyrannies For if a Lawfull Prince that is one who being so by Law and sworn to rule according to it breaks his Oaths and his Bonds and reigns Arbitrarily he becomes a Tyrant and an Usurper as to so much as he assumes more than the Constitution hath given him and such a Government being as I said violent and not natural but contrary to the Interest of the people first cannot be lasting when the adventitious props which support it fail and whilst it does endure must be very uneasie both to Prince and People the first being necessitated to use continual oppression and the latter to suffer it Doct. You are pleased to talk of the oppression of the People under the King of France and for that reason call it a violent Government when if I remember you did once to day extol the Monarchy of the Turks for well-founded and natural Are not the people in that Empire as much oppressed as in France Eng. Gent. By no means unless you will call it oppression for the grand Seignior to feed all his People out of the Product of his
Nos que valemos tanto camo nos y podemos mos os eligimos nuestro Rey conque nos guardeys nuestros Fueros y Privilegios y si no no. That is We who are as good as you and more Powerful do chuse you our King upon condition that you preserve our Rights and Priviledges and if not not Notwithstanding all this Philip the Second being both King of Castile and Arragon picked a quarrel with the latter by demanding his Secretary Antonio Perez who fled from the King's displeasure thither being his own Country and they refusing to deliver him it being expresly contrary to a Law of Arragon that a Subject of that Kingdom should be against his will carried to be tryed elsewhere the King took that occasion to Invade them with the Forces of his Kingdom of Castile who had ever been Rivals and Enemies to the Aragoneses and they to defend themselves under their Iusticia who did his part faithfully and couragiously but the Castilians being old Soldiers and those of Arragon but County-Troops the former prevailed and so this Kingdom in getting that of Castile by a Marriage but an Age before lost its own Liberty and Government for it is since made a Province and Governed by a Vice-Roy from Madrid although they keep up the formality of their Cortes still Doct. No man living that knew the hatred and hostility that ever was between the English and Scots could have imagined in the years 1639 and 1640 when our King was with great Armies of English upon the Frontiers of Scotland ready to Invade that Kingdom that this Nation would not have assisted to have brought them under but it proved otherwise Eng. Gent. It may be they feared That when Scotland was reduced to slavery and the Province pacified and Forces kept up there That such Forces and greater might have been imployed here to reduce us into the same condition an apprehension which at this time sticks with many of the common People and helps to fill up the measure of our Fears and Distractions But the visible reason why the English were not at that time very forward to oppress their Neighbours was the consideration That they were to be Invaded for refusing to receive from hence certain Innovations in matters of Religion and the worship of God which had not long before been introduced here and therefore the People of this Kingdom were unwilling to perpetuate a Mungrel Church here by imposing it upon them But I do exceedingly admire when I read our History to see how zealous and eager our Nobility and People here were anciently to assert the right of our Crown to the Kingdom of France whereas it is visible that if we had kept France for we Conquered it intirely and fully to this day we must have run the fate of Arragon and been in time ruined and opprest by our own Valour and good Fortune a thing that was foreseen by the Macedonians when their King Alexander had subdued all Persia and the East who weighing how probable it was that their Prince having the possession of such great and flourishing Kingdoms should change his Domicilium Imperii and inhabit in the Centre of his Dominions and from thence Govern Macedon by which means the Grecians who by their Vertue and Valour had Conquered and subdued the Barbarians should in time even as an effect of their Victories be opprest and tyrannized over by them and this precautious foresight in the Greeks as was fully believed in that Age hastened the fatal Catastrophe of that great Prince Doct. Well I hope this consideration will fore-arm our Parliaments That they will not easily suffer their eyes to be dazled any more with the false glory of Conquering France Noble Ven. You need no great cautions against Conquering France at this present and I believe your Parliaments need as little admonition against giving of Money towards new Wars or Alliances that fine wheedle having lately lost them enough already therefore pray let us suffer our Friend to go on Eng. Gent. I have no more to say of Foreign Monarchies but only to tell you That Poland is both Governed and Possessed by some very great Persons or Potentates called Palatines and under them by a very numerous Gentry for the King is not onely Elective but so limited that he has little or no Power but to Command their Armies in time of War which makes them often chuse Foreigners of great Fame for Military Exploits and as for the Commonalty or Country-men they are absolutely Slaves or Villains This Government is extreamly confused by reason of the numerousness of the Gentry who do not always meet by way of representation as in other Kingdoms but sometimes for the choice of their King and upon other great occasions collectively in the Field as the Tribes did at Rome which would make things much more turbulent if all this body of Gentry did not wholly depend for their Estates upon the favour of the Palatines their Lords which makes them much more tractable I have done with our Neighbours beyond Sea and should not without your command have made so long a digression in this place which should indeed have been treated of before we come to speak of England but that you were pleased to divert me from it before However being placed near the Portraicture of our own Country it serves better as contraria juxta se posita to illustrate it but I will not make this Deviation longer by Apologizing for it and shall therefore desire you to take notice That as in England by degrees Property came to shift from the few to the many so the Government is grown heavier and more uneasie both to Prince and People the complaints more in Parliament the Laws more numerous and much more tedious and prolix to meet with the tricks and malice of men which works in a loose Government for there was no need to make Acts verbose when the great Persons could presently force the Execution of them for the Law of Edward the First for frequent Parliaments had no more words than A Parliament shall be holden every year whereas our Act for a Triennial Parliament in the time of King Charles the First contained several sheets of paper to provide against a failer in the Execution of that Law which if the Power had remained in the Lords would have been needless for some of them in case of intermission of Assembling the Parliament would have made their Complaint and Address to the King and have immediately removed the obstruction which in those days had been the natural and easie way but now that many of the Lords like the Bishops which the Popes make at Rome in partibus infidelium are meerly grown Titular and purchased for nothing but to get their Wives place it cannot be wondred at if the King slight their Addresses and the Court-Parasites deride their Honourable undertakings for the safety of their Country Now the Commons succeeding as was said
besides it is possible that if such a Regulation as this come in Debate amongst them the Parliament will reserve to it self the Approbation of the Great Officers as Chancellor Judges General Officers of an Army and the like and that such shall not have a settlement in those Charges till they are accordingly allowed of but may in the mean time exercise them As to particulars I shall always refer you to what the Parliament will judge fit to Order in the Case but if you have any thing to Object or to shew in general that some such Regulation as this cannot be effectual towards the putting our Distracted Country into better Order I shall think my self oblig'd to Answer you if you can have Patience to hear me and are not weary already as you may very well be Noble Ven. I shall certainly never be weary of such Discourse however I shall give you no further trouble in this matter for I am very fully satisfied that such Reformation if it could be compassed would not only Unite all Parties but make you very Flourishing at home and very Great abroad but have you any hopes that such a thing will ever come into Debate what do the Parliament-men say to it Eng. Gent. I never had any Discourse to this purpose either with any Lord or Member of the Commons house otherwise than as possibly some of these Notions might fall in at Ordinary Conversation For I do not intend to Intrench upon the Office of God to teach our Senatours Wisdom I have known some men so full of their own Notions that they went up and down sputtering them in every Mans Face they met some went to Great Men during our late troubles nay to the King himself to offer their Expedients from Revelation Two Men I was acquainted with of which one had an Invention to reconcile differences in Religion the other had a project for a Bank of Lands to lye as a Security for summs of Money lent both these were Persons of Great Parts and Fancy but yet so troublesome at all Times and in all Companies that I have often been forced to repeat an Excellent Proverb of your Country God deliver me from a man that has but one business and I assure you there is no Mans Reputation that I envy less than I do that of such Persons and therefore you may please to believe that I have not imitated them in scattering these Notions nor can I Prophesie whether any such Apprehensions as these will ever come into the Heads of those men who are our true Physitians But yet to answer your Question and give you my Conjecture I believe that we are not Ripe yet for any great Reform not only because we are a very Debauch'd People I do not only mean that we are given to Whoring Drinking Gaming and Idleness but chiefly that we have a Politique Debauch which is a neglect of all things that concern the publick welfare and a setting up our own private Interest against it I say this is not all for then the Polity of no Country could be Redrest For every Commonwealth that is out of order has ever all these Debauches we speak of as Consequences of their loose State But there are two other Considerations which induce me to fear that our Cure is not yet near The first is because most of the Wise and Grave Men of this Kingdom are very silent and will not open their Budget upon any terms and although they dislike the present Condition we are in as much as any Men and see the Precipice it leads us to yet will never open their Mouths to prescribe a Cure but being asked what they would advise give a shrug like your Country-men There was a very considerable Gentleman as most in England both for Birth Parts and Estate who being a Member of the Parliament that was called 1640. continued all the War with them and by his Wisdom and Eloquence which were both very great promoted very much their Affairs When the Factions began between the Presbyters and Independents he joyned Cordially with the latter so far as to give his Affirmative to the Vote of No Addresses that is to an Order made in the House of Commons to send no more Messages to the King nor to receive any from him Afterwards when an Assault was made upon the House by the Army and divers of the Members taken violently away and Secluded he disliking it though he were none of them voluntarily absented himself and continued retired being exceedingly averse to a Democratical Government which was then declared for till Cromwell's Usurpation and being infinitely courted by him absolutely refused to accept of any Employment under him or to give him the least Counsel When Cromwell was dead and a Parliament called by his Son or rather by the Army the chief Officers of which did from the beginning whisper into the Ears of the Leading Members that if they could make an honest Government they should be stood by as the Word then was by the Army This Gentleman at that time neither would be Elected into that Parliament nor give the least Advice to any other Person that was but kept himself still upon the Reserve Insomuch that it was generally believed that although he had ever been opposite to the late King 's coming to the Government again though upon Propositions yet he might hanker after the Restoration of His Majesty that now is But that Apprehension appeared groundless when it came to the pinch for being consulted as an Oracle by the then General Monk whether he should restore the Monarchy again or no would make no Answer nor give him the least Advice and de facto hath ever since kept himself from Publick Business although upon the Banishment of my Lord of Clarendon he was visited by one of the Greatest Persons in England and one in as much Esteem with His Majesty as any whatsoever and desired to accept of some great Employment near the King which he absolutely refusing the same Person not a Stranger to him but well known by him begged of him to give his Advice how His Majesty who desired nothing more than to unite all his People together and repair the Breaches which the Civil War had caused now my Lord Clarendon was gone who by his Counsels kept those Wounds open might perform that Honourable and Gracious Work but still this Gentleman made his Excuses And in short neither then nor at any time before or after excepting when he sate in the Long Parliament of the Year 40. neither during the distracted Times nor since His Majesty's Return when they seemed more reposed would ever be brought either by any private intimate Friend or by any Person in Publick Employment to give the least Judgment of our Affairs or the least Counsel to mend them though he was not shye of declaring his dislike of Matters as they went And yet this Gentleman was not only by repute and esteem a
themselves in any thing And it is full as impossible that any person or persons so inconsiderable in number as Magistrates and Rulers are should by force get an Empire to themselves Though I am not ignorant that a whole people have in imminent Dangers either from the Invasion of a powerful Enemy or from Civil Distractions put themselves wholly into the hands of one Illustrious Person for a time and that with good Success under the best Forms of Government But this is nothing to the Original of States Noble Ven. Sir I wonder how you come to pass over the Consideration of Paternal Government which is held to have been the beginning of Monarchies Eng. Gent. Really I did not think it worth the taking notice of for though it be not easie to prove a Negative yet I believe if we could trace all Foundations of Polities that now are or ever came to our knowledge since the World began we shall find none of them to have descended from Paternal Power we know nothing of Adam's leaving the Empire to Cain or Seth It was impossible for Noah to retain any Jurisdiction over his own three Sons who were dispersed into three parts of the World if our Antiquaries Calculate right and as for Abraham whilst he lived as also his Son Isaac they were out ordinary Fathers of Families and no question governed their own Houshold as all others do but when Iacob upon his Death-bed did relate to his Children the Promise Almighty God had made his Grandfather to make him a great Nation and give his Posterity a fruitful Territory he speaks not one word of the Empire of Reuben his first-born but supposes them all equal And so they were taken to be by Moses when he divided the Land to them by Lot and by Gods command made them a Commonwealth So that I believe this fancy to have been first started not by the solid Judgement of any man but to flatter some Prince and to assert for want of better Arguments the jus Divinum of Monarchy Noble Ven. I have been impertinent in interrupting you but yet now I cannot repent of it since your Answer hath given me so much satisfaction but if it be so as you say that Government was at first Instituted for the Interest and Preservation of Mankind how comes it to pass That there are and have been so many absolute Monarchies in the World in which it seems that nothing is provided for but the Greatness and Power of the Prince Eng. Gent. I have presumed to give you already my Reason why I take for granted that such a Power could never be given by the Consent of any People for a perpetuity for though the People of Israel did against the will of Samuel and indeed of God himself demand and afterwards chuse themselves a King yet he was never such a King as we speak of for that all the Orders of their Commonwealth the Sanhedrim the Congregation of the People the Princes of the Tribes c. did still remain in being as hath been excellently proved by a learned Gentleman of our Nation to whom I refer you it may then be enquired into how these Monarchies at first did arise History being in this point silent as to the Ancient Principalities we will Conjecture that some of them might very well proceed from the Corruption of better Governments which must necessarily cause a Depravation in manners as nothing is more certain than that Politick defects breed Moral ones as our Nation is a pregnant Example this Debauchery of manners might blind the understandings of a great many destroy the Fortunes of others and make them indigent insuse into very many a neglect and carelesness of the publick good which in all setled States is very much regarded so that it might easily come into the Ambition of some bold aspiring Person to affect Empire and as easily into his Power by fair pretences with some and promises of advantages with others to procure Followers and gain a numerous Party either to Usurp Tyranny over his own Countrey or to lead men forth to Conquer and Subdue another Thus it is supposed that Nimrod got his Kingdom who in Scripture is called a Great Hunter before God which Expositers interpret A great Tyrant The Modern Despotical Powers have been acquired by one of these two ways either by pretending by the first Founder thereof that he had a Divine Mission and so gaining not only Followers but even easie Access in some places without Force to Empire and afterwards dilateing their Power by great Conquests Thus Mahomet and Cingis Can began and established the Sarazen and Tartarian Kingdoms or by a long Series of Wisdom in a Prince or chief Magistrate of a mixt Monarchy and his Council who by reason of the Sleepiness and Inadvertency of the People have been able to extinguish the great Nobility or render them Inconsiderable and so by degrees taking away from the People their Protectors render them Slaves So the Monarchies of France and some other Countries have grown to what they are at this day there being left but a Shadow of the three States in any of these Mocarchies and so no bounds remaining to the Regal Power but since Property remains still to the Subjects these Governments may be said to be changed but not founded or established for there is no Maxim more Infallible and Holding in any Science than this is in the Politicks That Empire is founded in Property Force or Fraud may alter a Government but it is Property that must Found and Eternise it Upon this undeniable Aphorisme we are to build most of our subsequent Reasoning in the mean time we may suppose that hereafter the great power of the King of France may diminish much when his enraged and oppressed Subjects come to be commanded by a Prince of less Courage Wisdom and Military Vertue when it will be very hard for any such King to Govern Tyrannically a Country which is not entirely his own Doct. Pray Sir give me leave to ask you by the way what is the Reason that here in our Country where the Peerage is lessened sufficiently the King has not gotten as great an Addition of Power as accrews to the Crown in France Eng. Gent. You will understand that Doctor before I have finisht this discourse but to stay your Stomach till then you may please to know that in France the greatness of the Nobility which has been lately taken from them did not consist in vast Riches and Revenues but in great Priviledges and Jurisdictions which obliged the People to obey them whereas our great Peers in former times had not only the same great Dependences but very Considerable Revenues besides in Demesnes and otherwise This Vassallage over the People which the Peers of France had being abolisht the Power over those Tenants which before was in their Lords fell naturally and of course into the Crown although the Lands and possessions divested of those Dependences did
and do still remain to the Owners whereas here in England though the Services are for the most part worn out and insignificant yet for want of Providence and Policy in former Kings who could not foresee the danger a far off Entails have been suffered to be cut off and so two parts in ten of all those vast Estates as well Mannours as Demesnes by the Luxury and Folly of the Owners have been within these two hundred years purchased by the lesser Gentry and the Commons which has been so far from advantaging the Crown that it has made the Country scarce governable by Monarchy But if you please I will go on with my discourse about Government and come to this again hereafter Noble Ven. I beseech you Sir do Eng. Gent. I cannot find by the small reading I have that there were any other Governments in the World Anciently than these three Monarchy Aristocracy and Democracy For the first I have no light out of Antiquity to convince me that there were in old times any other Monarchies but such as were absolutely Despotical all Kingdoms then as well in Greece as Macedon Epirus and the like and where it is said the Princes exercised their Power moderately as in Asia being altogether unlimited by any Laws or any Assemblies of Nobility or People Yet I must confess Aristotle when he reckons up the Corruptions of these three Governments calls Tyranny the Corruption of Monarchy which if he means a Change of Government as it is in the Corruptions of the other two then it must follow that the Philosopher knew of some other Monarchy at the first which afterwards degenerated into Tyranny that is into Arbitrary Power for so the Word Tyranny is most commonly taken though in modern Languages it signifies the ill Exercise of Power for certainly Arbitrary Government cannot be called Tyranny where the whole Property is in the Prince as we reasonably suppose it to have been in those Monarchies no more than it is Tyranny for you to govern your own House and Estate as you please But it is possible Aristotle might not in this speak so according to Terms of Art but might mean that the ill Government of a Kingdom or Family is Tyranny However we have one Example that puzzles Politicians and that is Egypt where Pharaoh is called King and yet we see that till Ioseph's time he had not the whole Property for the Wisdom of that Patriarch taught his Master a way to make a new use of that Famine by telling him that if they would buy their Lives and sell their Estates as they did afterwards and preserve themselves by the Kings Bread they shall serve Pharaoh which shews that Ioseph knew well that Empire was founded in Property But most of the Modern Writers in Polity are of Opinion that Egypt was not a Monarchy till then though the Prince might have the Title of King as the Heraclides had in Sparta and Romulus and the other Kings had in Rome both which States were Instituted Common-Wealths They give good Conjectures for this their Opinion too many to be here mentioned only one is That Originally as they go about to prove all Arts and Sciences had their Rise in Egypt which they think very improbable to have been under a Monarchy But this Position That all Kings in former times were absolute is not so Essential to the intent I have in this Discourse which is to prove That in all States of what kind soever this Aphorisme takes place Imperium fundatur in Dominio So that if there were mixed Monarchies then the King had not all the Property but those who shared with him in the Administration of the Soveraignty had their part whether it were the Senate the People or both or if he had no Companions in the Soveraign Power he had no Sharers likewise in the Dominion or Possession of the Land For that is all we mean by Property in all this Discourse for as for Personal Estate the Subjects may enjoy it in the largest Proportion without being able to invade the Empire The Prince may when he pleases take away their Goods by his Tenants and Vassals without an Army which are his Ordinary Force and answers to our Posse Comitatus But the Subjects with their Money cannot invade his Crown So that all the Description we need make of this Kind or Form of Government is That the whole possession of the Country and the whole power lies in the Hands and Breast of one man he can make Laws break and repeal them when he pleases or dispense with them in the mean time when he thinks fit interpose in all Judicatories in behalf of his Favourites take away any particular mans personal Estate and his Life too without the formality of a Criminal Process or Trial send a Dagger or a Halter to his chief Ministers and command them to make themselves away and in fine do all that his Will or his Interest suggests to him Doct. You have dwelt long here upon an Argumentation That the Ancients had no Monarchies but what were Arbitrary Eng. Gent. Pray give me leave to save your Objections to that point and to assure you first That I will not take upon me to be so positive in that for that I cannot pretend to have read all the Historians and Antiquaries that ever writ nor have I so perfect a memory as to remember or make use of in a Verbal and Transient Reasoning all that I have ever read And then to assure you again that I build nothing upon that Assertion and so your Objection will be needless and only take up time Doct. You mistake me I had no intent to use any Argument or Example against your Opinion in that but am very willing to believe that it may be so What I was going to say was this that you have insisted much upon the point of Monarchy and made a strange description of it whereas many of the Ancients and almost all the Modern Writers magnifie it to be the best of Governments Eng. Gent. I have said nothing to the contrary I have told you de facto what it is which I believe none will deny The Philosopher said it was the best Government but with this restriction ubi Philosophi regnant and they had an Example of it in some few Roman Emperours but in the most turbulent times of the Commonwealth and Factions between the Nobility and the People Rome was much more full of Vertuous and Heroick Citizens than ever it was under Aurelius or Antonius For the Moderns that are of that Judgement they are most of them Divines not Politicians and something may be said in their behalf when by their good Preaching they can insuse into their imaginary Prince who seems already to have an Image of the Power of God the Justice Wisdom and Goodness too of the Deity Noble Ven. We are well satisfied with the Progress you have hitherto made in this matter pray go on to