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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33979	A supplement to a little book entituled, A reasonable account why some pious nonconforming ministers cannot judg it lawful for them to perform their ministerial acts in publick solemn prayer, ordinarily, by the prescribed forms of others : wherein is examined whatsoever Mr. Falconer in his book called, Libertas ecclesiastica, and Mr. Pelling in a book called, The good old way, have said to prove the ancient use of forms of prayers by ministers : and it is proved, that neither of the two aforementioned authors have said anything that proveth the general use, or imposition of such forms of prayer in any considerable part of the church, till Pope Gregories time, which was six hundred years after Christ, nor in any church since the reformation, except that of England, and (which is uncertain) some in Saxony.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.; Falkner, William, d. 1682. Libertas ecclesiastica.; Pelling, Edward, d. 1718. Good old way.	1680 (1680)	Wing C5343; ESTC R18940	53,644	120

saith Platina There were some free forms up and down and some particular orders in some Churches none forced but he brought them into a Canon Platina who was a later Popes Secretary saith he came not to be Pope before 619. Yet it plainly appears by Pope Gregories answer to Augustine the Monks questions which he sent to him out of England that he did not tye all to the use of his Missal It pleaseth me saith he that you sollicitously make choice of what you find in the Church of Rome or France or any other Church which may best please God and infuse it into the English Church which is yet young in the faith particularly instructing it in things which you can gather out of many Churches for things are not to be loved for places but places are to be loved for good things I therefore out of several Churches pick out what things are pious religious and right and do you accustom your English mens minds to these things collected in a bundle Some years after by succeeding Popes it was enforced and by Charles the Great about 800 if we may believe Durandus The Popes were then at such an heighth as they could not expect that they and their Bishops should be quiet if they had a Clergy consisting of men of parts and piety they therefore suffered any ignorant sottish persons to fill the Ministry who so they might be gratified in their lusts and laziness would fawn upon the Pope and the Bishops of those times and humour their superstition pride and luxury and grandeur provided they would humour them in sparing their lusts and their pains the latter of which was eminently done by enjoining all Ministers to use the same Missal and laying all Religion in the use of it and making Preaching a rare and almost useless thing or a Lecturing out of Aquinas and Scotus and the Legend and this was the whole trade till the Reformation 1516. Nor can I think this would have so generally been swallowed by people but for another unhappy accident About this time Latin was the common language of Italy France and Spain and in that language their Divine service was but the Goths and Vandals and other Barbarians over-ran these Countrys and possessed them for many years which corrupted the Latin tongue so that it was understood no where ordinarily though the Italian French and Spanish languages are manifest Dialects of it but still the Mass-book was not altered Thus came in the Latin service used in Popery till the Reformation understood by very few of them that heard it So the Papists worshipped they knew not how and being ignorant were very tame The Reformation began in Germany 1517 in England not to speak on till Edward the Sixths time 1547 and had a present interruption of five years after it had been on foot seven years then began something more to purpose with Queen Elizabeth 1558 in France at Geneva it was sooner 1535. It is true our first Reformers both in King Edw. 6. and in Q. Eliz. time thought fit to compose a Liturgy or rather to reform what was used in Popery leaving out the idolatrous and highly superstitious part of the Mass-book Yea they thought fit to command the universal use of it under penalties which may charitably be interpreted to prevent a Popish Clergy or a Clergy newly reform'd from Popery using their old Mumpsimus Nor indeed in that face of things was it reasonable to expect that any number of Ministers should be able to pray as they ought in publick and if they were not they might for a time lawfully use forms Yet whoso will read the Book called The troubles at Francfort will find that even then all godly Ministers and people did not judg it lawful which much more appeared in the succeeding years of the Reigns of Queen Elizabeth King James and King Ch. I. In the mean time it must be agreed many both learned godly and worthy Ministers did thus perform their Ministerial acts in solemn publick prayer and so do many now which speaks them to judg it lawful The Ministers in Scotland the Nonconformists in England all those in New-England judg otherwise and we believe many hundreds that conform in England think it just lawful not eligible only a thing may be submitted to rather than lay down their Ministry If this be not as to matter of practise the true state of the case as to Forms of Prayer to be universally enjoined or used I must confess I do not understand it and should gladly learn of those that are wiser But let us now enquire what is said by Mr. Falconer or Mr. Pelling THE Summary OF THE SUPPLEMENT TO The Reasonable Account SEction 1. The reason of the Supplement What Mr. Falconer saith little concerneth the Nonconformists in the terms he hath expressed it Sect. 2. There may be a double sense of Mr. Falconer's assertion of God and Christ appointing forms of Prayer in the first they are true and granted by Nonconformists in the second they are false and denied by them Sect. 3. God may make things necessary by his command which without it are unlawful Sect. 4. The only medium to prove that forms of Prayer made by men are lawful to be used by all Ministers propounded but not proved Sect. 5. An examination of what Mr. Falconer hath said to prove that God and Christ appointed forms of Prayer to be used without variation in Devotion What he saith of the Lords-Prayer examined His reasons answered why he thinks our Saviour gave it as a form They conclude not Two great presumptions to the contrary The thing admitted nothing proved by it His instances from the Old Testament examined Five Reasons making it probable that those instances were never intended by God as Syllabical forms to be used without variation The practice of the Jews in or after Christs time invaluable Sect 6. An examination of Mr. Falconer's answers to the Nonconformists proof from Justine Martyr and Tertullian that in the first 300 years after Christ there were no such Liturgies used by Ministers A further proof added from Socrates Scholasticus extending to more than 400 years after Christ. An answer to Mr. Falconer's pretended proof from Justine Martyr Ignatius Origen Cyprian nothing is proved from them as to the first 300 years Sect. 7. His proof from Constantine's making prayers for his Army makes against him signifying that then there was no publick Liturgies Constantine did nothing but what Nonconformists will allow and practice Sect. 8. Nonconformists do not grant that forms of Prayer have been of general use by all Ministers or imposed upon all by any Church since the year 1300. Neither the Canon of the Council of Laodicea nor that of Carthage proves it nor that of the Council at Mela 402 more than as to Ministers of that Province upon a special cause Sect. 9. It is doubtful whether there was such a third Council at Carthage Justellus saith if there were they

A Supplement TO A LITTLE BOOK ENTITULED A Reasonable account why some pious Non-conforming Ministers cannot judg it lawful for them to perform their Ministerial Acts in publick solemn prayer ordinarily by the prescribed Forms of others Wherein is examined whatsoever Mr. Falconer in his Book called Libertas Ecclesiastica and Mr. Pelling in a Book called The Good old way have said to prove the ancient use of Forms of Prayers by Ministers And it is proved That neither of the two aforementioned Authors have said any thing that proveth the general use or imposition of such Forms of Prayer in any considerable part of the Church till Pope Gregories time which was six hundred years after Christ nor in any Church since the Reformation except that of England and which is uncertain some in Saxony Multa videntur dicuntur quae non sunt LONDON Printed in the Year 1680. COURTEOUS READER ALthough where the question is about the lawfulness or unlawness of any action the pleading of Antiquity be a great impertinency and if the Plea be true it can rise no higher than a presumptive argument and be so far from a demonstration that it is not a good Topick for there is no prescribing to error So that nothing can incline the scale of Conscience in which every one is obliged to weigh every Proposition relating to his practice but his apprehension of the revealed will of God either from the letter or reason of Holy Writ yet because every one is not thus spiritually instructed and it makes a great noise to hear men talking That the Church in all ages all the Fathers judged otherwise than these men and if it were true in any case it ought highly to oblige all Dissenters again and again to examine those arguments upon which they have founded their particular practical judgment I who know the world too well to believe all that I read in mens Books have thought it reasonable to examine what Mr. Falconer and one Mr. Pelling have said to prove the pretended antiquity of forms of prayer as generally used or required to be used by Ministers in their publick Ministrations as to Prayer I the rather did it because truly Mr. Falconer hath said as much as hath been said on that argument or as that Cause will bear The Reader will find Mr. Pelling hath added little but words I must profess to my Reader there appears to me no shadow or pretence of proof of the matter in question till Pope Gregory and Boniface's time more than 600 years after Christ nor do I believe any can be made to satisfie any inquisitive man I leave it to thee to judg whether I have not given a reasonable answer to any thing brought by these two and shewed that they have made no proof that can satisfie the conscience of any man of any reasonable understanding and thinks the thing is unlawful if indeed it were a thing granted indifferent these little flourishes might do something but the conscience of a good man judging a thing unlawful from grounds of Scripture and Reason cannot be dispossessed of that judgment by any thing but by Scripture and Reason and though the general judgment of the Church might stumble him if his opinion were contrary yet that general judgment must be proved not meerly talkt of and plainly proved too before it can have any operation at all Now whether either of these Authors have done this I leave thee to judg The one of them is very confident and can speak nothing of this nature in a lower stile than with questionless doubtless without all doubt The other though much more modest yet possibly hath some freer and smarter expressions in his Pages on this Argument than in any other part of his Book But my humour is always to suspect a soft place in that part of any Book where I meet with most confidence or passion Reason is so beautiful and noble a thing that it needeth not the service of passion or paint of confidence It commends it self to the next rational soul it meets with without any such black patch or foot-boy at its heels I will freely tell thee my opinion about forms of Prayer in publick Ministrations not imposing upon thee with any such thing as questionless and without doubt I do believe that forms of Prayer are very ancient that is that there were by some good and pious men forms of Prayer made both for their own publick use and for the private instruction of others and teaching them to pray without forms I do think that our Saviour Christ made the Lords-Prayer for the temporary use of his Disciples not so as to oblige them to use no other or to use that Sillabically but to pray for those things either in those words or other words and that they might for a time use that very form particularly until his Resurrection and Ascension after which I believe they were obliged to a more particular mention of his sacred name I believe that forms of Prayer were much more in use before the pouring out of Gods Spirit in the days of Pentecost than after for although the effects of that effusion of the Spirit were some of them peculiar to the Apostles such as speaking with Tongues Miracles Healing c. yet from that day to this I believe from Zach. 12. 10. there hath been a more full effusion of the spirit of grace and supplication upon all both Ministers and people than ever was before generally Notwithstanding which in regard that until men come to believe and be Christians indeed they have not the Spirit of God and even then the Spirit of God works in them by the use of means I do believe there were many forms of Prayer made by good men teaching beginners in Christianity how to pray and what to pray for I am not difficult to believe that many both Ministers and people in those days might make use of such forms till their exercise in Scripture and in the ways of God rendred them as to them needless and turned what were before helpers into hinderances of Devotion But I believe it cannot be proved that for more than 400 years after Christ any one Church commanded her Ministers generally to use such and no other in any part of their publick ministration though possibly some particular men that had not the gift of Prayer or at least feared themselves or suspected they had it not might use some forms made before by themselves or some others Pope Gregory the Great who is commonly call'd the worst of all that went before him though the best of all the Popes that followed him I believe was the first that commanded the general use of forms of Prayer by Ministers in their publick Ministrations Platina saith thus of him What should I speak more of this most holy man for all the ordering of the Ecclesiastical Office especially the old one was by him invented and approved Haec in Canonem redegit