the 13th of February 1688. When that was said there was another of the Commissioners that did say I was always of opinion that this was a Forfeiture within the Act because tho King James had not forfeited before yet he coming into Ireland on March 15. 1688. he committed Treason against King William and Queen Mary and forfeited that Estate It was then objected that this private Estate of the late King was parcel of the Possessions of the Crown of England and was vested in him as parcel of the Crown of England and the Crown being vested in K. William and Queen Mary by an Act of Parliament made in this Kingdom which settled the Crown in K. William and Q. Mary the Crown and all the Possessions were vested in them Feb. 13. 1688. so that that Estate being actually in his Majesty then and tho otherwise it might have been conceived that K. James had forfeited afterwards tho not then attainted it could not be conceived how he could forfeit that Estate because it was before in the King and Queen And the same Gentleman that urged that upon the 15th of March King James landed in Ireland and committed Treason pleased to say I don't dislike the 30th of January nor the Deed that was done that Day I like both the Day and the Deed. I confess I was surprized at it and said if those be your Reasons and this is your Agreement I declare I will never join in it One of the Commissioners at this time was absent but the next day that Gentleman was brought into the Room with the other Commissioners and then this was debated again and upon that Debate much of that matter was spoke over again not that relating to the 30th of January but then it was again urged that that Estate might be said to be forfeited and the same Objections were repeated and it seemed to be assented to by the other Commissioners that it was not strictly a Forfeiture and some of them said it might not be within the Commission then it was asked Why then will you report it And one of the Gentlemen did answer that it was a villanous Grant and therefore fit to be exposed I did not write down the words at that time because I had then no intention of making any complaint or publishing these matters But since they have cut off our Hands and Seals from the Report it made us think it necessary to do what we have done And it being said by a Commissioner not here but in Ireland If we take it not to be within our Commission why will you do it why will you report it for it will fly in the King's Face To which another answered Why the Commission flys in the King's Face if you won't fly in his Face you can't execute this Commission or you must not execute it one of them two Upon this it was further urged That this matter should be reported and one of the Commissioners said Tho it was not clearly within the Act yet he had received several Letters from several Members of this House to report this matter and he said it was as good or contained in the Letter that it was as good do nothing as not to report it There was upon this an expression by one of the Commissioners that a great Person was concerned That was my Lady Ork-y and the application of that was that if he was so tender of that Person we should not join with them in any thing else For Sir the Debate was grown to this pass whether if we did not join in this thing we should join in any thing else This I think is the substance of what I told that worthy Member if I am asked as to any other Person I shall give you a true Account Mr. Speaker I am commanded to ask you who was by upon this discourse between you and the rest of the Commissioners concerning the differences in opinion and how many and particularly at that time that one of the Commissioners did say that he thought that since it was not in your Commission to report that Grant it would be a flying in the King's Face c. Sir R. Leving It was the day that the Commissioner that was sick first came to us I believe about the 24th of October last There was present at that time the Lord Dr-gh-da Sir Francis Brewster Mr. Annesly Mr. Trenchard Mr. Hamilton Mr. Langford the Secretary and my self all were in the room when this was said Mr. Speaker Who was it said it was a flying in the King's Face and who made answer that the Commission did fly in the King's Face Sir R. Leving It was my Lord Dr-gh-da said the first part and Mr. Hamilton was the Person that said the other Mr. Speaker Who said that concerning the 30th of January that it was a good Day and a good Deed Sir R. Leving That was the day before the other Discourse was there was all but Mr. Trenchard who was sick and came next day Mr. Speaker Who said it and upon what occasion Sir R. Leving It was not a particular direction to any person as I remember but it was spoke by way of Answer it was told Mr. Langford when he came in the Objection that was made against this being returned as a Forfeiture c. And then he said I was always of opinion that this was a Forfeiture and that Kings might forfeit as well as others and he thereupon said he did not dislike the 30th of January Mr. Speaker You mentioned that some of the Commissioners said they received Letters from Members of Parliament to insert this Grant into the Report Please to repeat who had them and from whom Sir R. Leving The first time I heard mention of any such Letter was the first night After we rose we went to Mr. Trenchard's Chamber who was sick to consult for this Debate occasioned some concern in our minds and we did apprehend some breach amongst us and went to his Chamber to see if we could come to an accommodation and offered Mr. Trenchard and the rest of the Gentlemen present That if they would take the whole Report without the private Estate and sign it we could join with them and if they would put in an Article of the private Estate they might sign it by themselves for we thought if we could not agree to it we would be no hindrance to them if they thought fit to do it and then Mr. Trenchard said he had Letters from several Members to report this private Estate and that it would signify nothing if we did not report it Mr. Speaker Did he say that from himself or that it was in any Letter Sir R. Leving I do not say that positively he shew'd me no Letter Mr. Speaker Did he name any Member Sir R. Leving I do not remember that he named any Member Mr. Speaker Who was present at that time in Mr. Trenchard's Chamber Sir R. Leving Most of those Gentlemen I have
done 36. To the Right Honourable the Earl of Alb-m-rle 2 Grants now in being containing 108633 Acres in Possession and Reversion in consideration of services done 37. To William B-nt-nck Esq commonly called Lord W -- dst-ck 135820 Acres of Land no particular consideration mentioned in the Grant 38. To the Right Honourable the Earl of Athl-ne 2 Grants containing 26480 Acres in consideration of services done in the reduction of Ireland 39. To the Right Honourable the Earl of G-llw-y one Grant containing 36148 Acres in consideration of many good and faithful services by him performed 40. To the Right Honourable the Earl of R-chf-rt 2 Grants containing 39871 Acres in consideration of Services done 41. To the Marquiss of P-z-r 2 Grants containing 30512 Acres in consideration of services done 42. To the Right Honourable the Lord C-n-ngsby 5966 Acres with several Chiefrys Tythes and many Houses in the City of Dublin with 1000 l. Mortgage in consideration of Services done 43. To the Right Honourable the Lord M-ntj-y 11070 Acres for 21 years in consideration of his Services done in the War of Ireland the losses he suffered in his Estate the Imprisonment of his Father in the Bastile and his being kill'd in the Battle of Steynkirk 44. To the Honourable Thomas Keightly Esq 2 Grants containing 12381 Acres for 99 years as a portion for his Daughter Mrs. Kaetherine Keightly who was a dependant on her late Majesty Q. Mary of ever blessed memory and in consideration of a pension of 400 l. per ann and his lossesin the War 45. To Colonel Gustavus Hamilton 5382 Acres whereof 1900 are no part of the Forfeitures in consideration of his great and early service in the War of Ireland his wading through the Shannon and storming the Town of Athlone at the head of the English Granadeers 46. To Dr. John Lesly 16077 Acres in consideration of his early service in the War of Ireland his great expence in raising and arming considerable numbers of men and fighting at the head of them in several Engagements 47. To Thomas Pendergaest Esq now Sir Thomas Pendergast Baronet 2 Grants containing 7082 Acres upon the most valuable consideration of his discovering a most barbarous and bloody Conspiracy to Assassinate the King 's Most Excellent Majesty to destroy the Liberties of England and in consequence the Protestant Religion throughout Europe 48. To Mr. John Baker 1647 Acres in consideration of the great and memorable services his Father Colonel Henry Baker performed in the defence of the City of Londonderry 49. To Thomas Corry Esq 2 Grants one of a Mortgage of 2000 l. in Fee of several Lands in the County of Wicklow due to Sir Edward Scott from the Earl of T-r-ne the other of 1725 Acres The considerations mentioned in the Letters Patents are his House being burnt and his having furnished the Garison of Enniskilling with provisions and materials to the value of 3000 l. at his own expence But enquiring into the merits of this Gentleman it appears to us that he gave no assistance to the Garison of Enniskilling that in the Town of Enniskilling he publickly declared he hop'd to see all those hang'd that took up Arms for the Prince of Orange and his House was burnt by the said Garison 50. The rest of the Grants with the former appear in the Book N. 6. and are comprehended in the general values 51. It is to be observed that all the Acres mentioned in this Report are meant Plantation Acres which bear a proportion to English as 441 is to 264. 52. It is further to be observed that the Estates above-mentioned do not yield so much to the Grantees as they are here valued at for as most of them have abused his Majesty in the real value of their Estates so their Agents have imposed on them and have either sold or let the greatest part of them at great under value 53. We are further to take notice that most of the Lands in the several Grants aforesaid were granted under the Exchequer Seal in Custodium for small numbers of years or during pleasure either to the present Grantees or other persons by which means very little profit of them hath accrued to his Majesty The greatest part of the Custodiums are now expired but those few yet in being appear in a Book at the lower end of the Grants N. 6. 54. In the next place we humbly acquaint your Honours with the several Incumbrances that affect the Estates forfeited and not restored and here we shall take notice of such only as are found by Inquisition or have been allowed by his Majesty's Court of Exchequer most of which last have been in pursuance of her late Majesty's Letter dated _____ to the Lords Justices of Ireland which required that all Protestants should try the validity of their Incumbrances in the most speedy manner without subjecting them to dilatory or chargeable methods 55. All the Statutes Judgments Mortgages or other Debts which appear to us as aforesaid to affect the Estates not restored amount to 161936 l. 15 s. 6 d. the particulars whereof appear in a Book delivered in with this Report N. 7. The reality of the said incumbrances which of them have been made upon a valuable consideration and what have been since discharged by Receipt of Rents or otherwise we have had neither time nor opportunity duly to examine but we humbly conceive there are many deductions to be made upon the following considerations 56. In all Judgments and Statutes we have set down the Penal Sums not being able to know what Interest is due upon the several particulars 57. It appears probable to us that oftentimes the Judgment and Mortgage is for the same Debt 58. It is probable that many of the said Judgments are only for performance of Covenants and the defeazances remain in the hands of the Covenanters 59. In many cases Protestants and Papists have been equally bound and the whole Debt is demanded on the Lands of the forfeited persons tho there may be other security 60. It does appear that many Deeds and Copies of Judgments were produced to the Juries in several Enquiries and found without any proof of the execution of such Deeds or the considerations therein expressed 61. It is probable that in many cases the Statutes and Judgments have been satisfied and do not appear discharged upon Record 62. Many incumbrances have been bought up by the Grantees their Agents and Under-purchasers and oftentimes at small values and are kept on foot to cover the Estates tho probably they might have over-paid themselves by the Preception of Profits 63. Many persons have been put in possession of the Lands incumbred by virtue of her late Majesty's Letter and have received all or a great part of their Debts 64. It is probable that several of the Incumbrances have been taken in trust for forfeiting persons and many others were entred into covenously 65. In conclusion it appears to us that all the contrivances possible were made
Life and almost all the old Leases determine in May 1701 and then the Estate will answer the values above-mentioned All which with the utmost deference we humbly submit to your Honours Dublin Signed Fra. Annesley John Trenchard Ja. Hamilton Hen. Langford FINIS To Francis Annesly John Trenchard James Hamilton and Henry Langford Esquires Commissioners with us in the Execution of so much of a late Act of Parliaament made in England as relates to the Enquiring into and taking an Account of the forfeited Estates of Ireland The Memorial of Henry Earl of Dr-gh-da Sir Francis Brewster and Sir Richard Leving Knights Gentlemen WE having jointly acted with you in the Execution of the Power to us given by a late Act of Parliament made in England unto this present day and having Signed and Sealed three Books of Outlawries N. 1. three Books of Forfeitures N. 2. and also three Books of Adjudications at the Council Board N. 3. and three Books of Adjudications at the Court of Claims N. 4. and three Books of Pardons and Reversals N. 5. and three Books of Grants N. 6. and three Books of Incumbrances N. 7. and three Books of Debts due to forfeiting Persons not restored N. 8. which we conceive contain the Substance of the Account required from us by the said Act and our Secretary having drawn up the Report by the immediate Directions and Privity of some of you We have been present at the first and second Reading thereof and have delivered our Sentiments concerning the several Paragraphs thereof which in all amount to the number of ninety or thereabouts after having done our utmost Endeavors to satisfy You and our Selves and to come to a perfect Agreement with you for the publick Good on the 28th day of this instant November three Parts or Books of the said Report were prepared read and compared and contain amongst other things the Paragraph concerning the private Estate of the late K. James which we have before affirmed in our Opinions was not any forfeited Estate within the meaning of the said Act and the said Paragraph was much altered from what it was on the 24th day of October last or at any time after till the 23d day of this instant November at which time it appear'd that mention is therein made of forfeited Leases which are Granted together with the said Estate tho neither the continuances of such Leases nor the value of them above the reserved Rent nor other certainty of the said Leases does appear to us We have declared and do declare that whenever the aforesaid Matters shall appear we will join in the Reporting of whatever is a Forfeiture within the meaning of the said Act Whereupon you were told by Henry Earl of Dr-gh-da that we could not give an Account to the last Paragraph containing the said private Estate nor to Paragraphs 8 10 25 32 66 78 79. But that we would agree to all the said Report except the abovementioned Paragraphs Which you Gentlemen opposing the said Earl did enter on one of the Books or parts of the Report addressed to the Honourable the House of Commons a writing to the Effect following We agree to all the above Report except the 8 10 25 32 66 78 79 Paragraphs to which we cannot Assent for reasons which we will be ready to lay before your Honours when we shall be thereunto required which being written we Signed and Sealed the same and pray you to join with us therein or to subscribe your Names above the said writing thereby testifying your Assent to all the Paragraphs in the said Report But you Gentlemen insisting upon your Majority of four to three have not only refused to sign the said Book addressed to the House of Commons but have taken the other Books containing the said Report and addressed to his Majesty and the House of Peers from us and will not suffer us to join with you in such manner as will as we conceive both answer the ends of the said Act and satisfy our Minds in matters which we are to Certify upon our Oaths And when you propounded to us to make a separate Report which we thought no way convenient for the Service you yet were not willing to let us have Copies either of that we had agreed to or dissented from We therefore pray you as well in consideration of the Publick Trust reposed in us all as of preserving a good Correspondence amongst us that you will not be any hindrance to our Writing and Subscribing and Sealing on the other Books and Parts of the Report addressed to his Majesty and the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in such manner as we have done on the Book address'd to the Honourable the House of Commons we leaving you sufficient space above such Writing of ours to Subscribe and Seal the whole Report which if it be not done already we will Consent to make such Alterations as to make that feasible And we do insist and in virtue of the aforesaid Act of Parliament pray and caution you that you do not obliterate cancel or otherwise deface what we have as we believe solemnly Signed Sealed and delivered as aforesaid pursuant to the said Act but that the same without Alteration be laid before the Honourable House of Commons And we do likewise make instance to you that we may be ordered and not hindered from having Copies of the Paragraphs we have agreed to but more especially and speedily those to which we cannot agree to the end we may not be hindred by you from laying before his Majesty and the two Houses of Parliament the reasons why we cannot give our Assent to the said 8 Paragraphs We also put you in mind of the several Instances we have made to you of comparing at our Board the original Depositions taken before us with the Entry thereof in our Book and signing such Book by us after due comparing which we think extreamly necessary to be done because the original Depositions appear too much blotted and interlined and are thereby capable of great Alterations which may tend to the discredit of our Proceedings And lastly we pray you and insist that this our Memorial be kept ready to be produced amongst the Papers and Proceedings of our Commission Given and delivered unto you under our Hands and Seals this 29th day of November 1699. A Copy of a Letter to the Lord Ch-nc-ll-r of England And the like Letter being sent to the Speaker of the House of Commons the House would not hear it read as not Signed by a Quorum of the Commissioners sent Our very good Lord WE having been appointed Commissioners with four others for executing so much of the late Act of Parliament made in England as relates to the forfeited Estates of Ireland and having acted jointly with them therein to the Expiration of the Time limited by that Act and from that time attended the putting in order and perfecting the matters of our Enquiry unto this present day and having
otherwise I should have been more observant thereof but the particular Expressions which some of us are charged with by the Evidence now given are of so extraordinary a nature that I could not easily have forgotten them flying in the face of the King is so great a Reflection and so foolish an Expression that I think I could not have passed it by without the Censure it deserved Sir I do affirm to you upon my Reputation my Credit and all that is dear to me that I never heard the least Reflection upon the King by any of the Commissioners either in their Debates or otherwise in execution of their Authority When I had the Honour to be appointed by you one of your Commission I naturally reflected upon the part I was to act in it the many enemies I must in likelihood create upon a faithful Discharge of my Duty as well amongst Men in power the Grantees as the Purchasers and others claiming under them of which I had some knowledg having been formerly in Ireland However I was resolved upon a very short notice not only to subject my own private Concerns to Disappointments but to dispose of other Mens business with which in the way of my profession I was intrusted to their best advantage in my absence In discharge whereof I did act and I hope it will appear I did so with all imaginable Integrity And it will be my hard fortune if after such my Endeavours I should fall under your Displeasure As to what is alledged with respect to Mr. Harcourt I do not remember that I ever mentioned his Name upon any Debate at our board whereby to influence any Man in his Judgment nor indeed upon any other account except in private Conversation by drinking his Health and by expressing my self with that gratitude which became me towards one whom I had received particular Obligations from and deserved well from me I never had any Letter from Mr. Harcourt that took the least notice of the private Estate nor indeed that related to the execution of our Commission except in one Letter he said I might easily imagine with what pleasure he heard of the success of our Labours and that he was glad to find by the account I gave him that the Forfeitures were likely to answer the End for which we were sent over and that was the only Letter I received from him during my stay in Ireland hearing abroad of such a Letter being mentioned in the House I lookt all the Letters I received from any of the Gentlemen of this House during my stay in Ireland but I own I am very unwilling to produce the Letters of any person who favoured me with his correspondence and do hope I shall not be obliged to it Mr. Speaker For that you will have the further pleasure of the House but do you say you never heard of those words of flying in the King's face or that your Commission did fly in the King's Face Mr. Annesly From the time we first began to execute our Commission till our Power was determined I never was absent one hour I think I may say one moment from business and I assure you I never heard those words nor any thing like them fall from any one of the Commissioners As to the Debate among the Commissioners about returning the private Estate some hot words did pass and I will take notice to you if you please of some of them The Gentleman on my left hand did give very abusive Language to one of the other Commissioners Mr. Speaker To whom Mr. Annesly To Mr. Trenchard Another of the Commissioners said he would battle it with us at the Bar of the House of Commons Mr. Speaker Who was that Mr. Annesly That was my Lord Dr-gh-da Says Sir Francis Brewster I have as good Friends as you meaning Mr. Trenchard and we shall be as well heard there as you Mr. Trenchard answered I don't fear what you can do if you won't be an Evidence against me the ill Language Sir Francis gave forced that Expression from him the Resentments were high and the rest of the Commissioners then present endeavoured to pacify and make them Friends I own I then little suspected that Sir Francis that took the Expression so ill would have made good Mr. Trenchard's words at this Bar if I had I should have taken more notice of what passed There might be some other particulars that Sir F. Brewster has charged us with which I may have omitted answering if you please Sir to remind me of them I will give them the best Answer I can Mr. Speaker Mr. Trenchard if you please to give the House an Account of what you know of this matter Mr. Trenchard I was present at the Debate about the private Estate which was managed with great warmth and much said on both sides but I do not remember one word which this Gentleman speaks of that was directly so said I do own there were some words that might give umbrage to this Accusation with those that were resolved to misunderstand them The occasion was this My Ld Dr-gh-da as I remember or Sir Richard Leving said it would be flying in the King's Face to report this Grant Upon which one of the Commissioners replied my Lord We have heard too much of this Argument already and 't is time to have done with it we were not sent here to flatter and if the enquiring into the mismanagement of the Forfeitures be a flying in the King's Face then our whole Commission is a flying in his Face 'T is not dishonouring but vindicating his Majesty to shew he has been abused by ill Men and I doubt not but he will desert them when he has discovered it as the best and wisest Princes in all Ages have done More than this I do affirm upon the Reputation of a Gentleman and the word of an honest Man was not said whilst I was at the Board Mr. Speaker Who said the words you have repeated Mr. Trenchard 'T was I Sir Mr. Speaker You don't remember that Mr. Hamilton said any thing as to the flying in the King's Face Mr. Trenchard I do affirm that Mr. Hamilton to the best of my memory and I think I could not mistake it did not say any words relating to that matter more than that since we had enquired into the private Estate and it was known in both England and Ireland we should be thought bribed and corrupt if we did not report it but I am very sure he said no words dishonourable of his Majesty and if he had I would have resented it at the time as I suppose these Gentle men would have done and call'd upon others to have taken notice of it Mr. Speaker What words did you hear said in your Chamber Mr. Trenchard A great part of the time I was in that Kingdom I was confined to my Chamber being sick which I impute in a great measure to the fatigue of our Commission during which time