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A42872 Master Glyn's reply to the Earle of Straffords defence of the severall articles objected against him by the House of Commons Published by speciall direction, out of an authentick copy. Glynne, John, Sir, 1603-1666.; England and Wales. Parliament. House of Commons. 1641 (1641) Wing G892; ESTC R213348 35,221 58

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them upon the bowels of the Kings subjects It is no more in effect Your Lordships have heard him the other day mentioning two Acts of Repeale and I expected he would have insisted upon them but it seemes he hath beene better advised and thinks them not worthy repetition nor indeed are they And if the matter of fact be proved upon the fifteenth Article I am confident he will find the Statute of 18. H. 6. to be of full force My Lords I am very sorry to heare that when levying of warre upon the Kings subjects is in agitation and he charged with high Treason he should make mention of the Yorkshire men and the army now on foot whereby he would insinuate that if he be charged with high Treason then they must be likewise though they lye quartered and have meat and drink with the assent of the people which may breed ill bloud for ought I know From the fifteenth Article he descends to the three and twentieth and that is the Article whereby he stands charged with speaking of words and giving of councell to his Majestie to incense him against his Parliament pretending a necessity and telling him he is loose and absolved from all rules of government that he had an Army in Ireland which he might make use of to reduce this kingdome In this he is pleased to begin with the testimony of my Lord Ranelagh conceiving an apprehension and feare in him that the Army should goe over to England which my Lord sayes is no more but his saying and master Treasurer Vane's I pray God my Lord Ranelagh had not much cause to feare but by the same rule he may lay a charge of unwarrantable feare upon all the Commons for sure the Commons of England did feare it else they would not make an Article of it But my Lord Ranelagh's feare did not arise from a slight cause and he shewed himselfe a good Common-wealths man in expressing it and he is to be commended for it howsoever it be apprehended by my Lord of Strafford For his observation of the single testimony of Mr. Treasurer Vane give me leave to take the same latitude as his Lordship did for he shewes to three or foure Articles what he could have proved as to the Article concerning the Army he could have proved the designe of it by Sir John Burlacy and some others if they had beene here But by this rule and liberty hee hath taken to alledge what he could have showne give me leave to tell you what we might have showne and are ready to shew We could have made it expresse and proved it by notes taken by Secretary Vane the fifth of May when the words were spoken which notes should have beene proved if we had proceeded on the three and twentieth Article to corroborate the testimony of Mr. Secretary Vane and that by two witnesses Wee could likewise have showne how we came to the knowledge of it it being by means unknowne to master Secretary Vane and have made him an upright Councellour and witnesse but we shall prove his intentions to bring in the Irish Army another way when I come to open my owne course and method My Lords hee pretends these words were spoken the fift of May but when they were testified by master Treasurer he did not speak of the fifth of May and yet now my Lord remembers the day and I wonder how hee came to the knowledge of the day unlesse he likewise remembred the words But that my Lord observes is That being spoken then how should he perswade the King that he had an Army in Ireland when in truth he had none there for the Army was not on foot till a moneth after This my Lords is plainly answered and if he had thought of his owne answer he had answered himselfe for he tels you that in April before he had taken a course for the levying of the Army he had nominated the officers giving direction for raising it And the day of the Rendezvous of the Army was appointed the 18. of May And so in his owne answer he makes an answer to the objection and the objection is taken away out of his own confession From that Article he falls to the seven and twentieth Article whereby he stands charged with levying money by force upon the Kings people in Yorkshire he is pleased to observe that all the proofes for the maintenance of that Article is onely the levying of money with foure souldiers by Sergeant Major Yaworth Where he is pleased to disdaine the war because it was so weak yet it was too strong for them God help them that were forced upon pain of life to pay it And whereas he pretends the warrrant was not from him I shall reserve that till I come to the Article and when I come to the proofes I beleeve it will remain fixed upon him And there he left his Statute Treason and now he fals to the second kind of Treason and that was the introductive or constructive Treason He begins with the third Article that is concerning some words that he should be charged to have spoken in Ireland I shal desire that your Lordships would be pleased to look upon your notes how he answers that Article My Lords sayes he I am charged to say that Ireland was a conquered Nation and that their Charters were nothing worth and bind the King no further then he pleaseth therefore I am a Traitor because I speak the truth There was his answer in his collection And for their Charters he sayes he might might very well say so for he intended it no otherwise but according to the validity of them for they were severall wayes questionable and ought not to bind unlesse they were good in law But if you look upon his Arguments he hath like a cunning Oratour omitted the principall part of the Article and that is that Ireland is a conquered Nation and they were to be governed as the King pleaseth the King might doe with them what he lists this hee omits although they be proved by three witnesses and are appliable to his intentions fully yet he could make use of so much as makes for him and leaves out the rest like your Lordships know whom Then he descends to the fourth Article and this concerns some words he should speak upon an occasion betwixt him and my Lord of Cork that he should tell my Lord of Cork he would have neither Law nor Lawyers dispute or question his orders And upon another occasion that he would make my Lord of Cork and all Ireland know that all Acts of State which are Acts of Councel there made or to be made should be as binding as any Act of Parliament This he said was proved but by one witnesse and I extremely marvell to heare him say so for the latter words wee proved by foure or five or six witnesses that is that he would have Acts of State as binding as Acts of Parliament Whereas he
that must enforce the King what to doe to levie money to use his Prerogative to raise supplies upon his subjects without their consent against their will necessity must be his argument and this warre must be thē occasion of that necessity and without that he cannot suggest to the Kings eare or advise this necessity till this bee brought to passe And now he hath brought it to passe he began in the one and twentieth two and twentieth and three and twentieth Article to perswade the King that necessity hath surprized him by the Parliaments deserting of him that the Parliament had forsaken the King in denying supply and having tried the affections of his people hee was loose and absolved from all rules of government and had an Army in Ireland which he might employ to reduce this Kingdome That he spake these words to the King part is proved by two concurrent witnesses that is that having tried the affections of his people he was now loose and absolved from all rules of government which words are proved by two witnesses of eminent quality that is my Lord of Northumberland and Sir Henry Vane and truly howsoever my Lord in his speech pretends that the most materiall words are proved but by one witnesse it seeming that hee held it not a materiall charge that he counselled the King that he was absolved from all rules of government for my part if your Lordships be satisfied those words were proved I could willingly satisfie my owne Conscience in it and make no great matter to quit the rest for I know not how he could expresse it in higher termes then that the King was absolved from rules of government for then he might doe what he would It is true the latter words touching the Irish Army are expresly proved but by one witnesse master Secretary Vane but are fortified againe with such circumstances as make up more then one yea more than two other witnesses if your Lordships will have the patience to have it represented as it is proved For howsoever it be slighted by him if your Lordships will call to mind the words of Sir George Radcliffe his bosome friend to whom he had contributed without question his advice in all causes the said Sir George Radcliffe expressed it before and told some of his friends supposing that he never should be called in question and that the power of my Lord of Strafford had been enough to protect any thing he had done and out of the aboundance of the heart his mouth spake the King must now want no money if he did no body would pity him now he had his sword in his hand Sir Robert King proves it so My Lord Renula discovered the smoake of the fire that hee had just cause to suspect and on good grounds I am sure and if the Commons of England had not just cause to suspect him as I beleeve he is convinced they had good cause what is the reason this suspition should bee entertained at that time my Lord of Strafford being not then questioned for it and yet my Lord Renula should say Shall wee turne our swords upon our owne bowels shall we bring this Army to turne the points of our blades upon that Nation from whence we were all derived and that was before any conference with master Secretary Vane Sir William Penniman himselfe his owne witnesse and friend sayes at York before my Lord of Strafford was questioned that there was a common fame of bringing the Army into England and there is something in that surely and after all this to produce one witnesse that expresly proves the very words spoken in terminis as they bee charged if your Lordships put the whole together see whether there be not more then one witnesse And under favour my Lord Cottington if you call to mind his testimony I must justifie he did declare that he heard my Lord of Strafford tell the King that some reparation was to be made to the subjects property which must inferre he had advised an invasion upon the property else by no good coherence should a reparation bee made And that he testifies this I must affirme and most here will affirme it and I think your Lordships well remember it and that is an addition to it for if your Lordships cast your eye upon the interrogatory administred to my Lord Admirall and my Lord Cottington that very question is asked so that his owne Conscience told him he had advised something to invade upon the people when he advised to a restitution after things should be settled and so I referre it to your Lordships consideration whether here bee not more then one witnesse by farre It is true he makes objections to lessen this testimony first that this Army was to be landed at Ayre in Scotland and not here and this was declared to Sir Thomas Lucas master Slings by Sir William Penniman and others Secondly that others that were present when the words are supposed to be spoken did not heare any such words For the first perhaps the Army might be originally intended for Scotland and yet this is no contradiction but he might intend it afterwards for England surely this is no Logick that because it was intended for one place it could never be intended for another place so his allegarion may be true and the charge stand true likewise Beside that it was intended orriginally for Scotland what proofe makes hee Hee told severall persons of the designe but I will be tryed by himselfe he told some it was for Scotland he told others it was for England and why you should beleeve his telling on one side more then on the other side I know not though he pretends a reason of his severall allegations that the world should not know his designe but if you will not beleeve him one way why should he be beleeved the other way and if not the other way why the first way For the second severall persons were present when the words were spoken touching the Irish Armie and they were examined and remember not the words but one man may heare though twentie doe not heare and this is no contradiction at all For those persons whom he examined the Lord Treasurer Marquesse Hambleton my Lord Cottington did not heare the words that are proved by two witnesses concerning the Kings being loose and absolved from rules of government and if they did not heare those words no marvaile they did not heare the other and therefore that which hee himselfe pretends to be a convincing testimonie is nothing at all so that his objections are clearely taken away and the single testimonie fortified with testimonies that make above one witnesse and so the words are fully proved But to fortifie the whole I shall handle all these Articles together This designe to subvert the Law and to exercise an arbitrary power above the Law in this kingdome will upon the proofes putting them altogether and not taking them in pieces as my Lord
of Strafford hath done appeare to have been harboured in his thoughts and settled in his heart long before it was executed You see what his Counsels were That the King having tryed the affections of his people was loose and absolved from all rules of government and might doe every thing that power would admit and his Majesties had tryed all wayes and was refused and should be acquitted of God and man and had an army in Ireland wherewith if hee pleased he might reduce this kingdome so there must be a triall of his people for supply that is denyed which must be interpreted a defection by refusall and this refusall must give advantage of necessity and this necessity must be an advantage to use his Prerogative against the rule of the Law and consent of the People this is his advice which shewes that this very thing that hapned did harbour in his thoughts long before the breach of the Parliament and the occasion of the Armie Your Lordships have heard it confessed by himselfe That before this last advice he had advised the calling of a Parliament to the Parliament a proposition of twelve Subsidies was made for supply and which may be spoken with great assurance before they had consulted or given any resolution to that proposition the Parliament was dissolved upon a supposal that the supply was denied Now that this was predesigned by my L. of Strafford himselfe I beseech you observe these things following that is the words in the two and twentieth Article That his Majestie was first to try the Parliament and if that did not supply him then he would serve the King any other way His words are proved by Mr. Treasurer That if the Parliament supplyed him not hee would serve him any other way and this is before the Parliament set now if your Lordships heare the proofes of my Lord Primate which my Lord of Strafford slights taking it singly My Lord Primate before the Parliament was called when my Lord of Strafford was in Ireland and not yet come into this kingdome testifies my Lords saying That if the Parliament will not supply his Majestie the King was acquitted before God and Man if hee tooke some other course to supply himselfe though against the will of the Subjects I beseech your Lordships observe how he prophecies these things must come to passe and advised them accordingly My Lord Conway testifies that before the Parliament sate my Lord of Strafford said that if the Parliament would not supply his Majestie the King was acquitted before God and Man if hee tooke another course to supply himselfe though it were against the will of the subject and he doubts not but the Parliament would give what twelve Subsidies and your Lordships very well remember twelve were propounded but I beseech you observe the coherence of all the Parliament must be called they must be tryed if they deny there is necessity and this necessity is a warrant for the King to proceed so that my Lord of Strafford must be judged to be either a Prophet or to have this designe before hand in his thoughts Now the Parliament being broken before answer to the demand given he vents his counsell in the three and twentieth Article and how far it is proved your Lordships have heard Now comes the Bullion to be seized the Copper money to be advised and now comes he to tell the King that the Aldermen of London must be put to fine and ransome and laid by the heeles and no good would be done till some of them bee hanged so you heare his advice I beseech your Lordships observe what successe this advice tooke foure Aldermen were instantly committed and then the Councell of the three and twentieth Article is fomented First he foments the warre then there is a necessitie the defection of the Parliament must set the King loose from rules of government and now see whether the occasion of the warre the calling of the Parliament the dissolving of it be not adequate to what he propounded to himselfe namely to set up an arbitrary government Your Lordships remember how fresh my Lord of Bristowes memorie is touching my Lord of Straffords opinion upon the dissolution of the Parliament how he declared unto my Lord of Bristow instantly within three or fower dayes after That the King was not to be mastered by the frowardnesse of his people or rather of some particular persons and your Lordships remember Sir George Wentworths words spoken the very day of dissolving the Parliament which may be very well applyed as a concurrent proof to his intentions of bringing the Army into England He was my Lords owne brother that knew much of his Councell and his words are That the English Nation would never be well till they were conquered over againe So my Lords put all together if he declared his owne intentions if actions in executing of this tyrannicall and arbitrary power if Counsels of as dangerous consequence in as high a strain as can be be not a sufficient evidence to prove an intention and desire to subvert the Law I know not what can prove such an Interpretation and now I referre it to your Lordships judgements whether here be not a good proofe of the Article laid to his charge My Lord in the seven and twentieth Article hee is charged with levying of warre upon the Kings people by forcing them in Yorkshire to pay money to prove they were so forced you have heard by two witnesses that Sergeant Major Yaworth by Musketeers fower together in the towne and one by one out of the towne did compell them to pay the fortnights contribution else they were to serve in person That hee did this by warrant is likewise confessed by Sir William Penyman and whether this were an authoritie derived from or commanded by my Lord of Strafford that is the question and my Lords it is plainly proved that it was commanded by my Lord of Strafford for Sr. William Penyman himselfe being examined alledged that the warrant was made in pursuance of the relation and direction made by my Lord of Strafford Your Lordships heard what my Lord of Strafford did say before hand as is proved by two witnesses Sir William Ingram and Mr. Cholmeley that this money should be paid or levied on the subjects goods Then his declaration to Sir William Penyman in pursuance of which he made his warrant That it was the assent of the Lords of the great Councell that this money should be levied and taking all together whether it fixes it not upon him to be the authour and instrument it rests in your judgements in point of fact and so I suppose the seven and twentieth Article rests on him and so I shall conclude the evidence produced on the behalfe of the Commons And now give me leave to put your Lordships in mind of some evidences offered by my Lord of Strafford himselfe in his answer and in the passages of his defence for his clearing and