immediately But I mnst needs say this Errour of Mr. Hunt's is the most excusable of any I meet with in his Book because the great Lord Cook leads him the way For he tells us and refers to the Mirror for Proof That by the Laws and Ordinances of ancient Kings and especially of King Alfred it appeareth that the first Kings of this Realin had all the Lands of England in demesne and les Grandes Mannors Royalties they reserved to themselves and of the Remnant they for the Defence of the Realm enfeoft the Barons of the Realm with such Jurisdiction as the Court Baron now hath and instituted the Free-holders to be Judges of the Court Baron Then he tells us in his second Institutes That till the Statute of 24. E. 3. whereby 't is provided that Alienations of Lands made by Tenants which held of H. 3. or of other Kings before him to hold of themselves should stand in force saving to the King his Prerogative of the time of his Great Grand-Father his Father and his own It was doubted whether the King's Tenant might have given part of the Tenancy to hold of himself Which is in Effect the same with Mr. Hunt's Notion of all the Tenants holding of the King in Chief 1. But 't is obvious that by what the Lord Cook said of the Laws of King Alfred and others whereby he supposes Tenures were erected not only of the King but of his Grantees who had their Court Barons His Opinion was that the King's Tenant might have granted out to hold of himself for otherwise how could he have had his Court of Tenants 2. Whereas he supposes that the Laws of King Alfred shew that the Kings had all the Lands in Demesne there is but one Law of King Alfred mentioned in the Mirror and that is for the great Councils assembling at London twice a year or oftner if need be Not any thing of Tenures 3. But amongst the Establishments made per cel estate per plusors Royes by several Kings in Parliament the Mirror says Assentus fuist que les choses suivant serrent appendant aux Roys al droit de la corone Soveraigne jurisdiction la Soveraign Signory c. come Franchises treasnre trove c. Then it goes on Ceux droits retiendrent les primers Roys delremnant de la terre enfefferont les Countees Barons c. Here 't is plain that no more than the Rights aforesaid amongst which Chief Cities Chief Ports and Great Mannors were named not all the Lands were retained by the first Kings And tho they are said to have Infeoff'd others of the rest of the Land to hold of them yet that does not necessarily imply that they had all in them before Nay the Mirror shews the contrary for it says That after God pleased to abate the British Nobility who used Force rather than Law he left the Realm to the most humble and simple of all the adjacent Countries the Saxons who came to conquer it from Almain de la quel gent il y eurent iesque quarant Soveraigns que touts soy tiendrent a Companions Amongst these forty Princes being equal and independent here was no King till they came to make a Choice And so the Mirror tells us they did having felt the smart of their Competitions Then Eslierent de eux un Roy a reigner sur eux Governer le People de dieu a Maintainer Defendre les Persons les Biens en quiet per les Rules de droit This shews they did not resign their Properties to the King for they chose him to defend them yet it seems they consented to take Grants from the King by such Services as were in common agreed upon And though they were principally from him as Head of the Body Politick yet any Man that observes the Forms of the Saxon Kings Grants will not think it a vain Imagination that such as I speak of should have been with universal Consent 4. But I cannot find any Warrant to question the Tenants Power at the Common Law to Grant out to hold of himself And I am sure there is an express Resolution for it in Dyer the Words are thus in English A Man seized of a Mannor in Fee held of the King in Capite before the Statute of Quia Emptores Enfeoffs J. S. of part of the demeans in Fee without saying more the Feofee enfeoffs another to hold of the Feoffor and his Heirs by 26 s. and 8 d. Rent for all Services The Land clearly is not held in Capite And the first Mesnalty is not held of the Feoffor as of the Mannor by Knights Service The Statute of 34 E. 3. mentioned before by the Lord Cook is not in the least contrary to this For whereas before Magna Charta the King's Tenant might have alien'd as he pleas'd and Magna Charta's Provision Quod nullus liber homo det de caetero amplius alicui vel vendat alicui de terrâ suâ quà m ut de residuo terrae suae possit sufficienter fieri Domino feodi servitium ei debitum quod pertinet ad feodum illud interpretatively gave a Fine to the King when his Tenant alien'd which was not due before that great Charter was made The Statute 34. E. 3. gave the King Fines for Alienations made in the time of any King even before the making of the Charter The Lord Cook cites an Answer to a Petition in Parliament 18. E. 1. Rex non vult aliquem medium which is no more than that he would not grant his Tenant who then petition'd Licence to alien However he had not forfeited his Land if he had alien'd but the King might have entred and seized the Land in the Name of Distress for a reasonable Fine for the Trespass Which the Lord Cook takes for the better Opinion And if the Land were forfeited to be sure the indivisible Service could not have been multiplied as Mr. Hunt imagines 'T is certain that tho at the Common Law the King or any other Lord might have distrained for his Services reserved upon the Original Grant in the Lands of any inferiour Grantee as well as in the Lands of his immediate Tenants yet there was this Inconvenience that the Wardships and Marriages were not so considerable when the Lands were parcell'd out and the Lands of the immediate Tenant who only was to be in Ward or to be married by the first Grantor were of less value Therefore was that Provision by Magna Charta by the Interpretation of which the King was to have Fines upon Alienations But tho the Inconvenience of Tenants aliening to hold of themselves was taken away by the Statute of Quia emptores Terrarum 18 Edw. 1. which gave Tenants free Power to alien their Lands and provided that the Alienees should hold of the Alienors immediate Lords with an Apportionment of Services Yet Licences of Alienation being
a Simon de Bereford Chebalier c. Item in the same Parliament our Lord the King charged the said Earls Barons and Peers to give a right and loyal Iudgement upon Sir Simon de Bereford c. It follows afterwards Si agarderent aviggerent les ditz Countes Barons Piers come Iuges du Parlement per assent du Roy que le dit Simon come treitre fast treisne pendu So the said Earls Barons and Peers as Iudges of Parliament did with the Kings assent award and adjudge Sir Simon de Bereford to be Drawn and Hanged You see the same persons were his Judges who had before Tryed and Condemned the Earl of March yet I must observe a little difference in the expressions The King in giving the charge to the Peers in the Earls Case the words of the Record are The King charges you Earls Barons Les Piers de son Royalme The Peers of his Realm which must be construed Who are the Peers or Being the Peers of his Realm And then their Judgement comes to be set down the Record saith Les queux Countes Barons Piers c. The which Earls Barons and Peers did so and so with a Conjunction Copulative and before Peers as if there were some other Peers after the Earls and Barons which if there were we are sure it could not be the Bishops which is all that we are to enquire into We know that heretofore the Kings of England did sometimes send Writs of Summons to other persons that were not Peers of the Realm but persons of Quality as Bannerets and some Officers as the Warden of the Cinque-Ports whom I find commonly to be the last set down in the List of those who were summoned And those persons so summoned came and attended the Parliament and had Voice and Vote with the Peers as Members of their House and as Peers pro tempore and might be comprized under the general name of Peers and being Lay-men might act as Peers in all Tryals and in all other Judgements of Parliament both Civil and Criminal even in Capital Causes but these could in no sort be esteemed to be Peers of the Realm though they might pass in a large acceptation and a vulgar construction of the expression be termed Peers in Parliament These now might be summoned to a Parliament or two or three Parliaments one after another as pleased the King and then be summoned no more if the King was otherwise minded and they could not pretend to have wrong done them their former Summons having been Ex mera gratia without any right of theirs to them So then I may conclude that it is all one whether you will take it as it is expressed in the Kings charge then The Earls Barons Peers of the Realm c. or as it is when they come to give Judgement and as it is likewise expressed in the Case of Sir Simon de Bereford The said Earls Barons and Peers c. and whether that Conjunction and before the word Peers be of any signification or no to mark out other Peers subsequent to the Barons is not material to what our Asserter would have to be understood of my leaving out any thing for it had all made for me and against him making it clear enough that the Bishops had no part in those Judgements The next Precedent is the Judgement of Iohn Mautravers the Record says Trestouz les Piers Countes Barons assemblez a ceste Parlement a Westminster 〈◊〉 on t examine estroitement sur ce sont assentuz accordez que John Mautravers 〈◊〉 est culpable c. All the Peers Earls and Barons assembled in this Parliament at Westminster have strictly examined and thereupon have agreed and accorded that John Mautravers is guilty c. I appeal now to any man that hath but common sense if it can be imagined that the Prelates or Bishops can be thought to be meant by that expression of All the Peers and if it be not the same in signification as when the King charged them to give righteous Judgement upon the Earl of March saying Si vous charge Countes Barons les Piers de mon Roialme c. And so I charge you Earls Barons the Peers of my Realm c. There the several ranks of Peers are first named and the general word which denotes their Quality common to both which makes them competent Judges of those matters that is their being Peers is put last And here in this Record concerning Mauâ—…avers it is put first Which comes all to one And it is further observable that at the time of that Parliament there were no Temporal Lords before Earls neither Dukes nor Marquesses So if any others were to be understood to be comprised under that General Title of Peers it could be only the Lords Spiritual which is a thing very ridiculous to believe Can it be thought nay can our Asserter himself think I trow not that when the other particular ranks and degrees of the Peerage are expressed and set down nominatim by name as one may say by Tale and by Token Earls and Barons that I say at the same time and to be joyned with them in the same action another rank of men viz. Bishops must pass under a General Title and that put in the first place as if Peerage were an Apellativum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to them or a Genus Imperfectum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the two Species the Lords Spiritual and Lords Temporal which Genus the Logicians define to be Quod speciebus suis non communicatur ex aequo sed alteri magis alteri minus uni speciei immediatè propriè alteri mediatè in ordine ad primariam And that so the Lords Spiritual should still be principally and chiefly meant by the General Name of Peers they Primariò and the Temporal Lords Secundarió Those Logical expressions I know our Asserter understands well who blames others for bringing Illogical arguments therefore I put this to him But that they are not at all Peers of the Realm to speak properly and truly and as they are in the eye of the Law though they have sometimes been stiled so both by themselves and others I have in my former Letter I think made it clear and all that our Asserter saith to the contrary hath not made me change my opinion and I shall say more to it when I come in course to answer what is there said by him In the mean time I shall only add this which I lay for a ground that I do verily believe no instance can be given of an enumeration of some particulars in an Universal Collective Proposition and to leave out that particular which is first in Rank and ought to be first named if any at all be named and to have that to be tacitely implied under the General Term the Signum Collectivum As in this Proposition All the Peers Earls and Baâ—…ons gave such a Iudgement This
concerning Breakers of Truce and a Proviso in it That this Act shall not extend to any Act or Ordinance made 2 H. 5. late indeed and not of right King of England But still he is acknowledged King of England de facto which goes a great way to authorize any thing done under their power Therefore 11 H. 7. c. 1. A Law is provided to indemnifie all persons that shall do service to the King in being whether he have right or no. As for what is said of the Bishops making their Common Proxy at the prayer of the House of Commons That their Proceedings might be valid and not questioned in future Parliaments by reason of their absence and that divers Judgements had been reversed because they were not present It is true it is so expressed in the Roll of that void Parliament which as it hath no authority nor validity in it self so it is very strange that if there had been ground for this apprehension there should remain nothing upon Record in all the Rolls of Parliament that ever any Judgement or any other act done in any Parliament had been so repealed We know it was once attempted 2 H. 5. by Thomas Montacute Earl of Salisbury as I told you in my former Letter who brought his Writ of Error to reverse the Judgement given against his Father 2 H. 4. because the Bishops as he alledges there being Peers of Parliament were not parties to that Judgement but it was declared to be no Error and his Petition was rejected And we know that in Edward the First 's time there was a Parliament held at St. Edmonds-bury Clero excluso not a Prelate admitted to it And in Henry the Eighth's time all the Judges of England declared it for Law That the King might hold a Parliament with his Lords Temporal and Commons altogether without the Lords Spiritual Tout sans les Spirituels Seigneurs it is in Keilwayes Reports in Dr. Standish's Case Therefore there is no reason to think that any Judgements were repealed upon the Bishops being absent seeing their presence is not of necessity for the constituting and sitting of a Parliament And especially not for the Judgements which we treat of in Capital Cases because by what appears upon Record and by all the Laws Canon Common and Statute Law they never were present I always except that Unparliamentary Extravagant Proceeding and Judgement of Henry the Sixth in the twenty eighth of his Reign upon William de la Pool Our Asserter tells us of some Judgements reversed 15 E. 2. particularly in the Case of the Spencers but he doth not tell us where he finds it nor I believe doth he know himself having only taken it up some where upon trust as he doth other things But in this 21 R. 2. upon the Petition of the Earl of Gloucester it appears by the Record of the proceedings against the two Spencers Father and Son in that 15 E. 2. which are there repeated at large that there was nothing Capital in their Case neither in the Charge nor in the Judgement so as this signifies nothing to the matter in question which is all can be said to it And as little shall I say to his witty allusion of bringing me to a sight of my self as Alexander did his Horse to the Sun that he might not kick only this I might say if I were as foul-mouthed as he that indeed such a scoffing injurious Scribbler were fitter to be answered with a kick than with fair reasoning by way of Argument Next we come to the 1 H. 4. Sir William Rickhill's Case where I think I should do well only to transcribe what he hath written to shew it needs no answer but that I should waste too much Ink and Paper I represented in my Letter to you that Rickill being sent for into Parliament no formal charge being against him to give an account only by what order he had taken the Duke of Gloucester's Confession at Calais which he did the Bishops present but when they came to consider what was to be done upon it then only the Lords Temporal were asked their opinion which I alledge to shew that the Bishops there were not advised with because it might be preparatory to a further proceeding by way of Tryal And this our Asserter says is to serve an Hypothesis and learnedly gives it us in Greek and bids the Reader judge and so do I. Then for the Tryal of Hall who was one of the murtherers of the Duke of Gloucester he hath the condescension to acknowledge it probable that the Bishops were not there but then saith that they left it to the Temporal Lords without any Impeachment to their right it being secured before by the security of a confessed Act of Parliament 11 R. 2. it is their Protestation he harps at And if I had as much Greek as he I would say it in Greek that he now doth serve an Hypothesis or in good English beg the Question for that is his meaning of serving an Hypothesis for the Right which the Bishops there saved he will have to be and hath forty times repeated it to judge Capitally when they please but I have clearly shewed it was not of their assisting in those Judgements as he still will have it to be but other Judgements and proceedings in Parliament where in truth they had a right to assist Then follows the Case of William Sautre 2 H. 4. where he is pleased to give me a wipe for stiling him the Protomartyr of England and out of his great reading informs that St. Alban lived some hundreds of years before him but he must give me leave to inform him that the common acceptation of Martyrs amongst us Protestants now is of such Orthodox persons as have suffered for the truth whom the Papists have put to death for Hereticks and this man was the first of them in England He hath some other notable Remarks one is that whereas I said that the Bishops and Clergy of those times were the chief Promoters of bringing him to his end which I meant of their declaring him an Heretick and then turning him over to the Secular Power he observes upon it That then they acted in a Capital Case which he saith makes against me And that if it was the Lords Temporal who signed the Warrant for his execution that the Bishops had no hand in it and so have escaped my lash but who were his Judges nondum constat I am sure it doth not constare to me to what purpose he saith all this which I do not find to make either for him or against me No more than what he saith of the Case of the Earls of Kent Huntington and Salisbury 2 H. 4. who he grants were declared and adjudged Traytors by the Temporal Lords and no Bishops present and then saith he will give a Parallel Case it is of the Earl of Cambridge and the Lord Scroope 3 H. 5. where the Bishops were present and
their share in making new ones This one would think were enough to content them without desiring to have a Judicial Power in Cases of Blood which I doubt not to prove is by Law forbidden them But I fear the charging this Desire upon them is rather an Artifice of their Enemies who by assixing this Calumny upon them which indeed is not their Design labour to lessen them in the Estimation of the World and by that means bring into Contempt both their Persons and Callings Many Examples I confess are given where Christian Emperours and Princes have made use of the Service of Bishops as Counsellors Chancellors and Chief Justices and the like but upon Examination it will appear that as to our own Kingdom the Offices of these Persons were much mistaken The Office of Capitalis Justiciarius Angliae was not to sit and judge Causes among Associates as at this day but was the Chief Officer of the Nation had the Appellation of Prorex and had Power in the Absence of the King to displace any Officer of the Cinque-Ports and to do any thing as Vice-Roy and Protector of the Kingdom of which see at large Sir Henry Spelman's Glossary in the Word Capitalis Justiciarius Upon Examination it will be manifest that when they sate in any such places their Service rather was to direct the Conscience to make amicable ends of Controversies to preach Peace to others and pursue it themselves till the Subtilty of Rome turned Religion into Policy and destroyed the Power of it How far the Edicts of Princes were binding is not my Task to enquire but only how far that of their not medling in Blood was a part of the Law and Custom of this Kingdom and observed here But what I have said in this Chapter especially as to the Baronies of Bishops I have delivered by way of Proposal not Determination and upon a clear Answer of my Reasons shall be ready to retract any thing I have written CHAP. II. I Come now to the Examination of his second Chapter in which the Recognitions made at the Parliament held at Clarendon come under Examination together with the Protestation made 11 R. 2. I call it a Parliament because I find it generally so esteemed by our best Lawyers and I think denyed to be so by very few Mr. Selden calls it that great Parliament at Clarendon Tit. Hon. part 2. ch 5. p. 703. the first Edit in fol. Coo. 2. Instit. ch 2. p. 6. and in many other places Hoveden saith there met Clerus Populus Angliae Where note he makes Clerus comprehend Bishops Abbots and all Ecclesiastical Persons and Populus both Lords and Commons contrary to what Dr. Brady hath asserted but very weakly proved But before I enter into a more narrow Examination of this Statute I think it not amiss to give a short Account of the History of those times from William the First to the tenth year of Hen. the Second when this Meeting was with Relation only to the King and the Church It will not be denyed that William the First disclaimed all Title to the Crown of England by Conquest and swore to observe the Laws of Edw. the Confessor which were our Laws before yet notwithstanding it is generally agreed that he erected Tenures in Capite and Baronies and that amongst others he obliged the Bishops who before held their Lands in Frankalmoign to do Service to his Courts and to hold their Lands in Cap. sicut Baroniam and not to make their so frequent Appeals to Rome and Journeys thither without his License being a thing contrary to the known Laws of his Kingdom which is made evident by Sir Edward Cook in Cawdryes Case and Sir Roger Twysden in his Vindication of the Church of England in point of Schism These were the Servitutes ecclesiasticae and the Pessimae consuetudines so much complained of by Mat. Paris and other Monks of that Age. But however so it stood during the Times of Will the First Will. the Second and Hen. the First after whose Death Stephen without any Right and contrary to their Oaths made to Maud Daughter to Henry the First then alive by the Aid of the Bishops gets into the Throne and by their Power was kept there till a Composition was made with Maud. In Recompence of this their breach of Oath Stephen frees them and the rest of the Clergy from answering in any other Courts but Ecclesiastical by which they now look'd upon themselves as free from the secular Power because they were answerable for no Offences but in their Courts In this State of things Stephen dies and Hen. the Second Son to Maud according to Capitulation is received to the Crown who after he had setled his Affairs in Normandy resolves to do the like in England but fearing some Opposition to his Designs might arise from the Clergy he first calls together an Assembly or Council at Westminster in the ninth year of his Reign where he propounds That all such of the Clergy as should be taken and convicted for any heinous Crime should lose the Priviledge of the Church and be delivered to the civil Magistrate to be punished for their Offences as other the Kings Subjects were To this the Arch-bishop Becket with the rest of his Brethren refused to give their Consent as being against the Liberties of the Church which were confirmed to them by King Stephens Charter This Answer put the King to a second Question Whether the Arch-bishops and Bishops would submit themselves to the Laws and Customs observed by them in the time of his Grand-father Henry the First They answered equivocally They would their Order the Honour of God and the Holy Church in all things saved with which Answer the King was more enraged But the News of this Breach coming to Rome the Pope writes and sends a Messenger from Rome charges the Arch-bishop to make Peace with his Lord the King and to promise to observe his Laws without Exception The Arch-bishop thus humbled repairs to the King at Woodstock and there promises to observe the King's Laws so far forth as was required Upon this Submission the King having before broken up his Council at Westminster summons this Parliament to meet at Clarendon in the tenth Year of his Reign where he gives in Charge that they should call to Mind and put in Execution and Writing the Laws of his Grand-father Henry the First Of which these following were the chief First that there should be no Appeals to Rome without the Kings leave That Lay-men might handle cases of Tithes That no Arch-bishop or Bishop should excommunicate any person who held of the King in Cap. or interdict any official of his without his leave c. The eleventh of them was at large what we have now under Consideration which I shall repeat and translate as it ought to be by and by But by this short Relation I have made of the History of those
comprehends them all so that our Question being concerning their Rights in Parliament if this be not meant of one it will neither advantage nor prejudice me but only shew how willing they were to break through all Rubs when they could in those times of their Power and the Blindness of the People The whole Sentence by our Author abridged to his purpose is as followeth Illud coelestem exasperat iram plerisque discrimen aeternae damnationis accumulat quod quidam principes sacerdotum seniores populi licet non dictent judicia sanguinis eadem tamen tractant disputando disceptando de illis seque ideo immunes à culpa reputant quod mortis truncationis Membrorum decernentes à pronunciatione duntaxat executione paenalis sententiae se absentent Sed quid hac simulatione perniciosius est Nunquid definire discutere licitum est quod pronunciare non licet In English This doth exasperate the Wrath of Heaven that certain of the Chief Priests or Bishops and Elders of the People notwithstanding they do not dictate or pronounce Judgments of Death yet they handle them in their Disputations and discussions of the same yet notwithstanding think themselves free from Guilt because though they Decree the Sentence of Death or loss of Members they only absent themselves at the pronunciation of the Penal Sentence But what is more pernicious than this Simulation Is it lawful to discuss and determine what is unlawful to pronounce And in the whole Treatise inveighs against the general neglect of the Bishops in performing their Duty not confining himself to any place and seems a prophetical description of the practise of the Inquisition afterward brought in by S. Dominick But if it were referred to the practise of some of the Bishops and Clergy of England probably it may be meant of such as were made Secular Judges or sate with the Earls in the County Court where they perhaps were present at the discussion though not at the Sentence which was left to be pronounced by the Secular Judge till after the time of Edw. 1. See 28 Edw. 1. c. 3. where it is ordained that the Justices appointed to take Assizes in every County where they do take as they be appointed Assizes shall remain together if they be Lay-men but if one of them be a Clerk then one of the most discreet Knights of the Shire being Associate to him that is a Lay-man by our Writ shall deliver the Goals of our Shires Here we see their Power though Justices to meddle in Capital Cases was prohibited nay some Records are in the Tower that when two have been commissioned as Judges for the same Circuit the Commission of the Clerk has been restrained to common Pleas that to the Lay-man unlimited see Iani Ang. facies nova pag. 209. 210. Shall we now believe that what was prohibited to Clerks in Edward the First his Time was permitted to them in the High Court of Parliament in subsequent times I have given my Reasons why I think Seniores Populi could not comprehend the Abbots Priors Lords and Commons yet if any man will contend this was a Parliament then must Seniores Populi comprehend amongst others the Commons and their Proceedings to be in a legislative way in which the Commons could only meddle and in which we deny not the Clergy to have their part so that this doubty Precedent will no way serve our Author's Turn His second Instance to make good his Assertion is taken from the Authority of Will. Fitz-Stephen a Monk of Canterbury in MSS. in Sir Rob. Cotton's Library and some other private hands in which he relates what happened to Arch-bishop Becket in the Contest between the King and him in the great Council at Northam ton called soon after Becket's obstinate Carriage at Clarendon in which Relation among others that Author hath these Words Secunda die considentibus Episcopis comitibus Barenibus Angliae omnibus Norpluribus Roffensis Episcopus quidam alius nondum venerat Archiep. lesae majestatis coronae regiae Arguitur quia se ut supra narratum est à rege citatus ro causa Johannis to wit Iohn the Marshal neque venerat neque idonee se excusasset Archiepiscopi depulsio nullum locum habuit Allegata tamen Johannis supradicti injuria jurisdictione hujus causae propria curiae suae integritate Rex exigit judicium Archiepiscopi nulla ratio est approbata Then after much debate who should do it Judgment was pronounced by the Bishop of Winchester which ended in the Confilcation of all his personal Estate The Sum of what Fitz-Stephen saith which is cap. 10. col 2. p. 21. in that Copy I have seen is this That when the Bishops and Barons of England and many of Nor. Normandy as Mr. Selden thinks were met together the Arch-bishop is there accused of Treason because having been cited by the King in the Cause of one Iohn he appeared not nor gave in a sufficient Excuse To let pass what is materially replyed by the Author of the Letter to this Authority I shall make some Observations of my own not yet taken Notice of First That this Assembly held at Northampon was not a Parliament but a great Counsel summoned by the King soon after Becket's stubborn carriage to his Prince at Clarendon to be advised by them how to humble that proud Man where it was lawful for him to use the Counfel of any of his Subjects of Normandy or others as he thought good who certainly in an English Parliament could not be admitted amongst the natural English Secondly we hear nothing of the rest of the Clergy nor the commons but of the Bishops Earls and Barons but that the Commons had allways right to appear in Parliament is learnedly made good by Mr. Petit in his Tractate of the ancient Rights of the Commons In the next place the relation of Fitz-Stephens is not only different from the relation of other Historians but in it self is subject to many Exceptions For first it is plain he was not accused of High Treason in the case of John the Marshal as he saith which appears by the Judgment of that Council which upon the whole matter reac'hd only a Confiscation of his personal Estate which shews clearly the Accusation was not in that Case for Treason because they here punished him with a lesser Punishment than was due to Treason now 't was not in their Power to change the nature of the Crime but must have either found him guilty of Treason or have acquitted him But the Truth is there was a second Accusation by the King about the same time and in the same Place concerning Accounts to the King of Receits during the Vacancy of the Sees of some Bishopricks when he was Chancellor to which he refused to give other Answer saying He was not cited in that Cause and over and above that he was fully
having then made his Appeal Neither to speak my Mind freely can I see how he could be accused of Treason for Who was the Accuser The King could not because by reason of the dignity of his Person no Averment could be made against him neither could any man be tryed but by his Peers Now we hear of no Articles exhibited no Jury summoned nor no legal Proceedings in case it had been a Parliament for though Mag. Charta was not so perfect as in Henry the Third's Time yet all Historians agree 't was granted in Henry the First 's Time of the chief Points whereof Stephen Langton Arch-bishop of Canterbury brought a Copy into the Parliament in King John's Time a worthy Prelate he was though an Italian though it were the Law of the Land before and though the Council of the King might in some Misdemeanours proceed arbitrarily yet in Treason they could not as is well observed by Mr. Selden Priv. of Bar. ca. 4. pa. 10. but they were in those Cases to be tryed by their Equals Co. 2. Inst. pag. 50. tells you 't was as ancient as William the First gives you an Example of Roger Earl of Hereford so tryed in his Time But we have not yet done with Fitz-Stephens for our Author tells you that the King upon the proud Answer of Becket charges the Bishops that together with the Barons by virtue of their Allegiance they would give Judgment upon the Arch-bishop They excuse themselves The King presseth them Fitz-Steph Words are Rex responso Archiep accepto instat Episcopis praecipiens obtestans per homagium fidelitatem sibi debitam juratam ut simul cum Baronibus de Archiepiscopo sibi dictent sententiam c. This he translates That the Bishops together with the Barons would give Judgment upon the Arch-bishop This appears to be after his Appeal when the giving of Judgment or medling farther in the Business was refused beside the undue Translation of the Words which signifie no more but the desire of the King that they would tell him their Opinion touching the Arch-bishop I wish he would give me any good Authority where dictare Regi sententiam for sibi here is the same can signifie giving Judgment upon a Criminal as he translates them I know very well that dictare judicium may be taken to deliver any Sentence leisurely Linw. lib. 3. Ne Cler. vel Mon. where it is all one with dicere or suggerere sententiam Beside no such Sense can be affixed to these Words for the King's Question refers to them all in general but certainly the King did not mean they should all pronounce Sentence but only privately tell him their Thoughts yet from hence would our Author infer that this was a Parliament and that the Bishops had Power to give Judgment in Criminal Cases when he hath proved neither because in Truth this was only an Attempt of the King 's to draw them to his Party having then Intentions to send to Rome about this matter The Words of the Bishop of Chichester which he spake to Becket after his Appeal to Rome will do him as little Service for they import no more than that the Interdict laid upon him and the rest from doing any thing against him during his Absence hindred them from being present at such Proceedings against him as the King required from them 'T is not to be doubted but the King would have pressed them to deliver their Opinions whither his Appeal were Treason or not what their Judgment would have been no man knows If it had been a Parliament then summons must have been sent out for his Appearance and Proceedings by Bill of Attainder in a Legislative way not arbitrary in Cases Capital Seld. pri Bar. cap. 4. pag. 10. as before noted He closes this Head of Discourse with a pretended Confutation of the Author of the Tractate of Peerage a Book by some snarl'd at but by none answered but let us examine what they both say The Author of the Discourse of Peerage tells you pag. 14. and backs what he saith by the Authority of Justice Doddridge Sir Edward Cook and Mr. Selden that these were only certain Recapitulations of the King's Prerogative and the Peoples Right then sought to be infringed by the Pope and Clergy That these Recapitulations were avite consuetudines is confessed and that that Canon concerning Blood is as ancient in England as the Conquest our Author acknowledgeth that Gervasius Dorobernensis reckons this Article among the Laws then established from all which the Discourser of Peerage might very well argue That which was a Custom in Henry the First 's Time taken notice and allowed in Henry the Second's Time and of the beginning whereof there is no Memorial extant nor account to be given ought reasonably to be esteemed as part of the ancient Custom which is the common Law of the Kingdom All that the grand Questionist thinks fit to reply to this is that it is little to his Purpose because this Clause in Question is not a Limitation of their Power but a Priviledge and Indulgence for their Absence That this Fancy is erroneous I have before shewed from the natural Sense of that Clause as also that long before these Constitutions they were both by their own Canon Law and Custom of the Nation prohibited from being present in Cases and Consultations of Blood and that themselves admitted not only the Liberty but the Obligation by their constant Obedience given to that Law and Custom in absenting themselves in those Cases as the Author of the Letter hath asserted and shall by me be farther cleared in my Answer to his Precedents Now I do not think that this Author believeth that these Constitutions gave them a greater Liberty than they had before but if it found them bound that Statute left them so and was as all affirmative Statutes are though not introductory of a new Law yet are they corroborative of the old and in their Oath they swear Obedience to this Article as well as to the rest to wit that they would according to their Duty be present in all Proceedings in Parliament with the rest of the Barons except in Cases of Blood in which they tell us afterwards that it was not lawful for them to be present at any hand so that upon their Allowance there was more than a Liberty for there was a Law against them Beside could this Sense be allowed it would no way serve to make good his main Hypothesis that they might be present till the definitive Sentence came to be given for if the Law were obligatory as to any part why not to every part of it Our Aurhor is as little fortunate in his attempt to evade the Authority of Roger Hoveden pag. 40. who saith That 't was agreed in the Synod at Westminster that no Clergy-man should agitare Iudicium sanguints He tels you this was part of a Canon agreed at Toledo which
they had a place to go to when 't was fit they should consult apart not that they always did so no more than it doth that the Prelates sate not among the Lords because they sometimes went apart and had a place to go to as well as the Commons We know that 7 Iacobi when Prince Henry was created Prince of Wales they all sate together in the Court of Requests and may do again when the King pleaseth I have now done with this rather curious than necessary Question which I had not touched upon had not Percy 's place in Parliament given me occasion a little to search into it Yet I think it not amiss here to insert the Prayer of the Commons and the form of the Proxy made by the Clergy to Sir Thomas Percy in 21 Rich. 2. memb 6. no. 9. as it is at large upon the Record that the Reader may be able to give a rational Judgment both what his Power was and how the Clergy were represented by him The Commons first pray the King that whereas divers Judgments and Ordinances before time made in the time of his Progenitors had been recalled and made null because the Estate of the Clergy were not present Et pour ceo prierent au Roy que pour surety de sa person salvation de son royaum les Prelates le Elergy ferroient un Procurateur avet povoir sufficient pour consentir en leur nome a toutes choses ordonances a justifier en cest present Parlament que sur ceo chacun seigneur spirituel diront pleinment son avis Sur quoy le dicts seigneurs spirituels commetterent leur plein povoir generalment a un lay personne nomerent en especial Thomas Percy Chevalier sur ceo baillerent au Roy une schedule contenant leur povoir la quelle nostre seigneur le roy receust commanda le dit Mardy estre entre de record en rolle de Parlement de quelle cedule la form sensuit Nos Thomas Cantuariensis Robertus Ebor. Archiepiscopi ac praelati Clerici utriusque provinciae Cantuar. Eborac jure ecclesiarum earundem habentes jus inter essendi in singulis Parlamentis Domini nostri Regis regni Angl. pro tempore celebrandis nec non tractandi expediendi in eisdem quantum ad singula in instanti Parlamento pro statu honore Domini nostri Regis nec non Regaliae suae ac quiete pace tranquillitate regni judicialiter justificand Venerabili viro Domino Thomae de Percy Mil. nostram plenarie committimus potestatem ita ut singula per ipsum facta in praemissis perpetuis temporibus habeantur It is observable in this Prayer the Commons recite Ordinances as well as Judgments to have been made null by reason of the Bishops Absence and comprehended not Judgments alone Now of what Latitude Ordinances were taken whether temporary or otherwise look'd upon as Laws is not very certain Secondly they desire such a Proctor as might have Power to confent to such things as should be done Thirdly they naming a Lay-man who had no Right of his own to sit there and giving the King a Schedule of their Procuration was enough to make their Right be preserved to them without any explicite Consent by their Proctor or perhaps his being so much as present at any Debate But I now proceed to observe how ready our Author is to pick what Advantage he can against the Author of the Discourse of Peerage from the words by him quoted out of the Manuscript History written by the Abbot of Molros in Scotland where the King of England sent Bishop Fox as I remember to treat with the King of Scotland Iames the Fourth then there touching a Match between the Children of those two Princes 'T is a Book to be seen in some few hands and writes of the Parliament in 21 R. 2. The Author of the Discourse pag. 20. tells you that that Manuscript Author blames the Prelates much for the Opinion they gave generally about the Revocation of Pardons but in this as in many other Authorities that make against him our Author curtails the Words and cites no more than makes for his turn The Words at large are these Dederunt ergo locum judicio sanguinis in hoc facto Ita quod dubitabatur à pluribus si non incurrerent in poenam irregularitatis pro negotio memorato unde contigit quod propter istud minus peccatum inciderent in aliud majus peccatum consequentur ut laicam personam constituerent procuratorem pro iisdem qui illorum vice consentirent ad judicium sanguinis dandum in isto Parliamento si necesse foret occasio emersisset The Prelates by this act of theirs gave Allowance or Countenance to Tryals of Blood insomuch that it was doubted by many whether they did not fall under the Penalty of Irregularity by reason of the foresaid business from whence it happened that instead of that lesser Offence they fell into a greater by Consequence in that they made a Lay-man their Proctor who in their Room might consent to a Judgment of Blood to be given in that Parliament if it were needful or occasion had happened I have translated dare locum fudicio sanguinis to give way or Allowance to a Judgment of Blood because it appears by the subsequent Words he meant them so The use the Author of the Discourse of Peerage makes of these Words is to shew that the Canons were not the only Cause that hindred their presence in II Rich. 2. For then when they had no Encouragement from the King or Lords then they ought not at any hand to be present in such Cases but here in 21. when they had any Allowance or Connivence as to the Laws against them then the Canons were neglected altogether His Inference seems to me rational and good Oh! but saith the Grand Questionist they were present in voting the Pardon to the Earl of Arundel revocable Under his Favour I think he is mistaken for the Book warrants no such matter only tells you that they gave a general Vote that Pardon 's granted in Parliament were revocable by the King by consequence whereof some of those who were pardoned in 11. were executed in 21. which Votes I hope might pass though the Parties concerned were not present and this meaning the book seems to enforce For first that Author saith it was a doubt amongst many whether that act did not make them incur the Penalty of Irregularity which would have been none had they personally by their Votes revoked the Pardon granted to the Earl of Arundel Secondly he saith by making a Proctor in that Case of Blood they committed a greater Fault than the former but certainly the making a Lay Proctor was not a greater Fault than actual Allowance and personal voting in Blood which that Author charges them with Lastly they made a
but of the better Opinion of such as were the Judges The Records of the Court were not to be denyed to any man others it seems might by understanding men concerned in the Cause The meaning of the Law I take to be that Cases of Right might be tryed here of any Value but criminal Cases were not medled withall I remember not to have read any where that Capitalia placita had that Signification our Author suggests Placita Coronae Placita Parliamentaria and Placita Communia I have met with but Capitalia Placita for Placita Capitalium criminum is new to me However the meaning of that be yet the Manuscript Life of Saint Cuthbert as to the thing it self will help us out He tells you it may be with as much Truth as Brompton that one Hamel the Son of Earl Godwin being imprisoned by the Earl of Northumberland his Friends earnestly interceded with the Earl that he might not loose his Head Here indeed we find a man imprisoned by an Earl Application made to the Earl in his behalf no mention of any Bishop any Tryal or any farther Proceeding in the business but the Tryal and the Bishops Presence at it are both supplyed by our Author who hath proved neither or produced greater Proof than the Authority of a loose Legend and that lame too and yet upon this he triumphs as if the Point were clearly gained when there is nothing of what he would have made good by him Is it not now a thousand Pities that so well sounding Words so well put together should signifie nothing The next Precedent our Author takes into Consideration is that of Nicholas Segrave cited by the Author of the Letter pag. 55. by this Author pag. 76. which he would evade by supposing the Bishops might be comprehended under the Name of Magnates or Counsellors and shews that some of the Bishops were probably then of his Counsel For a clear Answer to these Surmises I shall give you shortly the whole Case as you shall find it at large inter placita Parlam 33 Ed. 1. Riley pag. 266. Nicholas Segrave had Summons by the Sheriff and the Command of the King to answer to such things as should be objected against him and to hear and stand to what the Curia Domini Regis to wit the Parliament consideraret in praemissis Segrave upon this Summons Venit in pleno Parliamento in praesentiâ ipsius Domini Regis Arch. Cantuariensis plurimorum Episcopor Comitum Baronum aliorum de Consilio Regis tunc ibidem existentium Nicholas de Warwick perhaps the King's Atturney accuseth him of many and great Crimes which he offers to prove Segrave confesseth all submits to the King de alto basso Et super hoc Dom. Rex volens habere avisamentum Comitum Baronem Magnatum aliorum de consilio suo injunxit eisdem in Homagio fidelitate ligeantia quibus ei tenentur quod ipsum fideliter consulerent qualis poena pro tali facto sic cognito fueri infligenda The Comites Barones Magnates c. adjudge him worthy of Death After this the King pardons him and orders him to put in seven Sureties and to render himself a Prisoner at the King's Command and to be accountable to the King for the Issues of his Land held in his own or his Wifes Name This in short is the Case of Segrave in which it is very clear that at the Accusation the Bishops were present as of Right they might be but at the Tryal they are omitted Now to suppose them comprehended under a general Name and out of Order who were particularly expressed when their Presence was lawful is both unusual and unreasonable unusual because it is against the Rule of Law to comprehend the greater after the Nomination of the lesser and so to take the Bishops under the name of great Men who are constantly first named and were so here at the Beginning Secondly 't is unreasonable to make a different Construction of the same Words in different Cases or Laws now we know that in the Statute de Asportatis Religiosorum the Words are Comites Barones Magnates where we know the Bishops were not comprehended under the Name Magnates nor ought to be here and to suppose the contrary is against the Current of all Acts of Parliament and Records By the Magnates and alii de Consilio were meant the Judges and other Counsellors at Law whose Advice the King required as was very just and usual in those times 'T is likewise observable that the Word Consilio is written with an s which shews those Counsellors he advised with were not necessarily Members of Parliament for then the Word would have been written with a c Concilio His remarkable Precedent of the D'Spencers will stand him in as little stead in the Reign of Edward the Second they were both condemned and the Exilium Hugonis D'Spencer is to be seen in the old Natura brevium Those Judgments were afterward reversed at York in 15 Edward the Second but in 1 Edward the Third the first Judgments were affirmed and so they were look'd upon as condemned Persons which continued though themselves were dead for above seventy years til by the prevailing Party in 21 Richard the Second that Act was again called in question as void in regard the Bishops were absent and the Bishops desired to make a Proctor by the Commons which they accordingly did but at last through their exorbitant Proceedings that whole Parliament was repealed in 1 Henry the Fourth To this I have largely spoken before to which I shall refer the Reader with this farther Advertisement that in troublesome times things are not always carryed as they ought to be wherefore we are not always to look at what was but what ought to have been done neither are we to be governed by seeming Precedents such as sometimes as in the Case of Ship-money may be produced against Law I have before made it manifest that the Canons of the Church long before Lanfrank's time forbad Clergy-men to meddle either in Blood or secular Employments neither is it reasonable to believe the Laws of this Land were different from the general Rule incumbent upon all Clergy-men to observe especially when we see the Immunities granted them by King Stephen were so early recalled by Henry the Second and the Constitutions then made at Clarendon look'd upon as the ancient Customs of the Nation insomuch that the Discourser had very good reason to say 't was the common Usage which is the common Law of England Pag. 88. Our Author comes to the Examination of those Records urged against him and his Exceptions in general are First That they are Negative the Bishops were not present at Tryals of Blood therefore they had no Right to be present Secondly They were sometimes absent when they were not prohibited therefore their Absence was voluntary Thirdly they are sometimes comprehended under the
must now meet under such Qualifications and no other as were by him allowed them which by all Men is agreed to be as Tenants to the King in Capite for their Possessions which they held in the Nature and by the Service of Baronies This being so I see not what use he can make of the Distinction made in Parliament between the several Estates of the Clergy and Laity The Question is not Whether the Clergy and Laity are distinct Estates which no Man ever denied but whether the Bishops distinct from the other Clergy in Convocation be an entire third Estate in the Lord's House that they are so no Man hath yet proved His Authority out of Eadmerus speaking of what was done in Parliament in 3 Hen. 1. saith it was done Utriusque ordinis concordi Curâ sollicitudine by the unanimous care and trouble of both Orders Ranks or Degrees Why must Ordo signify an Estate rather than a Degree or Rank Now I hope Men of different Degrees may sit together without being different Estates Dukes Earls Marquesses Viscounts Barons now sit together yet may make but one Estate But let Ordo signify that Estate as he would have it and as he thinks it doth why must it signify an intire Estate or what doth it more import than that it was done by the Joint-Consent of the Lords and Commons who might then sit together and were not at any time left out as is sufficiently proved by Mr. Petyt Matth. Paris his Clerus and Populus and the other Cases by him there mentioned comprehended the whole Body of the Clergy and Laity met together in Parliament including as well the Inferiour Clergy as the Superiour sitting in their due Ranks All the rest of his Precedents made use of by him seem rather to enforce that the King is not a third Estate than that the Bishops are more than a part of a third Estate among the Lords But this Point whether the King be one Estate or not in Parliament and how an Head can be considered as no part of the Body I leave to others to dispute but must rest in this undeniable Conclusion that there can be no legal co-ordinate Power however the case stands for as in the Body natural nothing can be done without the concurrence of the Head So in the Body Politick nothing can justly be done without the concurrence of the King in matters of publick concern in Parliament except their Proceedings deviate from the ordinary Rules of the known Laws of England I have put off the Examination of the first part of his fourth Chapter that I might conclude this Discourse with an Answer to the Matters he there alledgeth He finds himself pressed with that strong Argument drawn as well from Magna Charta as from divers Precedents that the Bishops were not Peers to Noble-Men but were themselves tried by a common Jury in Matters Capital and therefore were not of Condition to try Noble-Men who had in themselves Inheritable Noble Blood To this Argument he opposes two things First That the matter of Fact cannot be made out that a Bishop hath always been tried by Commoners Secondly That if it could it doth not overthrow their Peerage in Parliament This second Assertion I will easily grant if by Peerage in Parliament be no more meant than a Community of Appellation by reason of their sitting amongst the Lords and their Precedence in place with some other Priviledges as to Amerciaments days of Grace and the like But certainly if it can be cleared that they have of right been tried by common Juries and that as well before as after the time of Henry the 8th Nay that they have not look'd upon the Lords in Parliament as their Peers and proper Judges I may then rationally conclude that they are not Peers in Parliament to that end to try or be tried by Noble-Men there It is plain by all our Law-books that out of Parliament no such Priviledg belongs to them For first out of Parliament over and above the express Authority of Stanford a Judg in Queen Mary's time Sir Edward Coke a great Judg in our time Mr. Selden a great Lawyer and Antiquary Mr. Cambden an Herauld great Scholar and Historian all agree that Bishops shall not be tried by Noble-Men and that manner of Triall hath never been put in use as to them Now if this be confessed to be the Law out of Parliament let the Author give me one Example that a Man of right ought for a like Offence to be tried by one sort of Jury out of Parliament and another in it The Case of Appeals under which Covert he endeavours to hide himself I shall discuss anon The Priviledg they claimed as Clerks was common to all other Clerks as well as to them but there are many Cases of Clerks tried in Secular Courts and the Trial allowed to be good to which purpose see Cook 's second Instit. 638 but never any Exception of theirs allowed of as if those Trials were illegal As to the Case of Bishops and their Trials by common Juries Mr. Selden is very clear and gives many Examples both before and after Hen. 8th's time which are not so to be slighted as this Author seems to do That of John de Isle the Bishop of Ely's Brother is full to the point where the Bishop was arraigned and upon Question how he would be tried stood upon his Priviledg as Clerk that he was a Member of the Pope's and therefore ought to be brought to his Answer before his Ordinary the Arch-bishop of Canterbury who was there ready to demand him affirming that he ought not to answer before a Lay-Judg this Plea was rejected and a day given to the Bishop and a Jury impannelled sworn and tried which shews he had his Challenge The Jury bring in their Verdict and find that the Bishop was not guilty of the Fellony laid to the Charge of John de Isle his Brother and his Companions but they find that after the Felony committed the said Bishop knowing that these Persons had committed Felony did receive and harbour them upon which a Writ was directed to enquire what Goods and Chattels he had and his Person upon request of the Arch-bishop delivered him to be kept as it behoved him to do Now let any Man judg whether here were not in every respect a legal proceeding The matter of Fact tried by the Verdict of twelve Men Inquisition made concerning his Goods Lands and Chattels himself the Crime being only receiving of Felons delivered to the Arch-bishop either to make his Purgation or to be kept in due manner Was here now any Willingness in the Court to break the Law as our Author saith pag. 146. or not rather a perfect Observation of it Is not this perfectly agreeable to what Dr. Ridley in his view of the Civil and Ecclesiastical Laws saith pag. 86. If a Clerk be first arrested by a Spiritual Judg and found
by the Earl of Gloster against whom the Bill was found whereas here the Reference is made by both and to the Kingalone Next we find the King here was present with the rest which was not usual if the Lords had proceeded judicially wherever the matter was heard whether in Parliament or else-where Besides it is observable that the word Consilium is twice written with an s whereas if it had been a Parliament the word would have been written with a c as was generally observed by the Writers of those Times In Conclusion this Record makes nothing either to the Bishops Power of judging in Criminal Cases or that Submission of a matter to the King should be a waver of Peerage but was a making the King an Arbitrator for they knew the Verdict was void being not upon Oath I have before denied that such Persons as sate in the Lord's House by virtue of their Office had any Right to be tried by Noble-Men except they had an inheritable Right of their own as well as their Office I am not therefore concerned to examine as to Predial Feudal or Personal Right what is urged by our Author or any other because I have throughout this Discourse maintained that no Man can have any Priviledg or Right of Trial but according to the nature of his Peerage which seems to me not only reasonable but within the plain meaning of Magna Charta that the Triers and Party tried ought to be of the same Condition and capable to undergo the same Penalties in like Case That what the Discourser hath said as to the Regradation of their Peerage when their Office shall be taken away means no more than that Officers shall no longer sit among the Peers not that they had any Right of Peerage during the continuance thereof tho they were placed among them by a particular Law or Usage Neither is our Author's Reason of any force that because Persons enobled in Blood in a Forreign Country shall not try a Peer of England therefore the Parity is not of Blood but of Priviledg in Parliament For he cannot but know that all Laws are originally made for the benefit of those who are born subject to them or adopted into them by Naturalization and such shall have the full benefit of all things appliable to their English Condition as if they were natural born-Subjects Others that are Strangers tho of equal or greater Quality shall not enjoy the Rights invested in the Natives by their Birth but only the Protection and Priviledge of the Laws of that Country where they are during their abode there Another Argument is drawn by our Author from the Proceedings in Cases of Appeal against a Noble-Man at the Suit of the Party He argues thus If in Appeal of Murther or the like at the suit of the Party a Noble-Man shall be tried by a Jury of good Free-holders then their Exemption from being always so tried proceeds from their sitting in Parliament and not from Nobility of Blood and therefore all those who have Right to sit in that House have Right to the same Priviledg But the Bishops have Right to sit in the same House and are called Barons therefore they ought to enjoy the same Priviledge other Barons have This Argument how specious soever it may appear is unconclusive in many respects First It doth not follow that those that have Priviledg to sit in the same House have the same Priviledges to all Intents and Purposes My Lords the Judges and all Justices of the Peace sit upon the same Bench and by the same Commission yet are not equal in all Circumstances Nay my Lords the Bishops themselves though they are of the same Order and Quality yet are not equal in Priviledges I have before shewed that there were Barones Minores who were not properly Barons but so called and might be left out at the King's Pleasure But such as are enobled in Blood may demand their Writs which the Barones Minores could not And if now the Bishops have that Right which is not certain it is because they are to summon the Clergy without which the Parliament would not be compleat as to the Convocation And were it not for that Reason the Bishops might be now wholly left out for they being only Barons by Tenure cannot be in any other Rank than were the Barones Minores who were left out at the King's Pleasure I have before asserted they hold their Possessions per Servitium Baroniae as a Burthen not Honour to them and their sitting among the Lords was only indulged to the Dignity of their Function as Bishops they being indeed no more than Commoners Neither secondly doth it any way follow that because Peers in some Cases shall be tried by a Common Jury therefore those who are properly Commoners and only priviledged to sit among the Lords should participate of the same Honour with them To examine farther into the Reason why in all Criminal Cases at the Suit of the King the Trial shall be by Peers not so in an Appeal for the same Crime Sir Edw. Coke will tell you One reason is because the Trial if it ought to be so must be before a Lord Steward and no Appeal can be brought before a Lord Steward who is but only Temporary but ought to be brought before the Judges in the King 's ordinary Courts of Justice We are likewise further to consider that Inequality of Persons is not of the Law of Nature but of Human Constitution and that the Statute of Magna Charta is but a Confirmation of our ancient Rights in which all Subjects were Pares But since it is apparent that ever since Magna Charta and perhaps long before the Trials at the Suit of the Party have been as they now are we must look upon them as a Branch of the common Law of England never taken away from the Commoners but that the King and Noble-Men as to what concerned the Crown were contented to introduce that manner of Trial as to the Nobles and long use and Custom hath now made it to be received as the Law of England yet the poor Commoner never received that way of Trial as to his own Right who look'd upon the Verdict of twelve substantial Men of his Neighbourhood as much better Security for them and their Heirs than a Trial upon Honour When upon their Appeal it would always have been in the Power of the King to name again the same Lords for Triers which they had before and by that means defeat them of the benefit of their Appeal to which the Law gives so great respect that upon an Appeal brought all Proceedings at the King's Suit should as has been taken for Law stay till the Appeal were determined because a particular wrong to a private Person in the Murther of an Husband or very near Relation is of greater Consideration to the Party than the general loss of a Subject is to the King I shall
of Parliament and learned Monks or other old Authors be taxed with heedless Impertinencies nay even want of understanding what they wrote Eadmerus who was a very corrrect Writer and lived in the time of which he wrote tells us that at one General Convention in the Reign of Hen. I. there were tota Nobilitas cum Populi numerositate at another tho it was held only for Ecclesistical Affairs there were Nobilitas Populusque minor The Election of King Stephen as a grave Prior of those Times tells us was a primoribus Regni cum favore Cleri Populi Clericorum Laicorum universitate In that King's Reign there was adunatum Concilium Cleri Populi a General Council of the Clergy and Laity together which now one would say were a Parliament and Convocation united the Members of this Council follow Episcoporum atque Abbatum Monachorum Clericorum Plâ—…bisque iufinita multitudo the Authority for this is a Legier Book of the Abby of Ely wrote as it should seem in the time of Hen. I. These kind of Books were generally kept with great Exactness and were in the nature of Records From the like Authority we have it that Archiepiscopi Episcopi Comites atque alij omnes were consenting to the Election of King Iohn But to mention a few undoubted Records to this purpose In the 15 th of King Iohn there were Precepts to all the Sheriffs of England to summon in every County Milites who were to come with Arms Barones without Arms and four Knights for every Shire quatuor discretos Milites de comitatu to a General Council at Oxford In the 38 th of Hen. III. besides the Tenants in Chief two legales discreti Milites were required to come for every County vice omutom singulorum to be chosen by the Milites alij de Comitatu And several Records before the 49th of H. 3. describing the Members of Parliaments mention besides the Clergy Comites Barones Milites liberi Homines some libere Tenentes others omnes de Regno Now can there be the least colour to believe that all these were no more than the Prelates and great Barons or only the greater and less Nobility holding in Chief whatever Dr. Brady or others may obtrude upon the World That the Commune Concilium Baronum may sometimes be used in the same sense with Commune Consilium Regni affords no help to Mr. Hunt because where the expressions are too lax and general Barones shall be taken in it's utmost extent and consequently shall comprehend ordinary Free-holders who were Nobiles Barones minores long before the 49th of Hen. 3. But the Question is Whether when Records or Histories make a Distinction between Barones and others coming after the Distinction can be thought to be without any manner of Difference and so vain and idle as that the Porulus minor or Populi numerositas after Nobilitas is a Term comprehensive of the Nobility before mentioned or when there were Primores Regni cum Clero Populo the chief of the Kingdom with all the Clergy and People the word People was but comprehensive of the Primores so that the Primores were there together with themselves But surely I need not run over all these Instances and many more produceable to convince even Dr. Brady Mr. Hunt and Mr. W. of the absurdity of interpreting Records after their manner But Mr. W. thinks to help out his Record by an Historian and cites the Additaments to Matthew Paris mentioning the Letter wrote to the Pope in the Case of Adomar de Valens which begins thus Communitas Procerum Magnatum aliorumque Regni Angliae and was subscribed by some Earls and great Men and Peter de Monteforti vice totius Communitatis this Mr. W. says was in the name of the whole Baronage not the House of Commons or Commonalty of England there being mention of the universitas Baronagij but not universitas Regni Popularis I take it to be manifest that all the Question which can arise upon these words is not as Mr. W. puts it whether Symon Montfort subscribed in the names of the Barons only or of the Commons only But whether some of the great Barons having set their hands themselves Montfort being the last Man that subscribed did not do it in the name of the rest of the Great Barons not subscribing and of the Commons too as part of the Baronage or Communitas of Earls Barons and others And I think nothing is more clear then that the Commons were part of the Community here intended Matthew Paris tells us that 't was ex parte Regni totius Angliae universitate and this he says was scriptum a Farnagio and that the Commons were part of the Kingdom at Parliaments and went under the Denomination of the Faronage at that very time is evident beyond Contradiction from Record for whereas the Title of the Writ expressing some Matters agreed upon between the King and his People in that very Parliament is pro Rege Faronagio Anâ—…liae the body of the Writ runs Rex omnibus c. cum pro negotiis nostris arduis Regnum nostrum tangentibus proceres Fideles Regni nostri ad nos London in Quindena Pasche prox praeterit faceremus convocari c. And another Record explains and reduces to a certainty the Proceres Fideles and the Faronage and calls them Hanshomes the high Men the Prelates and great Barons Prodes homes the Magnates and Grands of the Counties and the Commune de Reaum the Commons of the Cities and Boroughs and with this his own Instance out of Matthew Paris exactly agrees for there were the Comites and Proceres the great Barons the Magnates or Grands of the Counties and alij who must needs be the Commons of the Cities and Boroughs as they were distinguished from the Grands of the Counties even as late as the 27th E. 3. This may serve for a full and clear Answer to Dr. Brady's Exposition of the forementioned Letter whom both Mr. Hunt and Mr. W. may thank for misleading them in this Point and this sufficiently shews the Vanity and Falshood of the Doctor 's Assertion that the Commons as at this day known are not to be found amongst the Community of England in old Historians except he will place Matthew Paris amongst the Moderns This I think may suffice in answer to any thing wherein Mr. W. his Authority may be used against me I cannot be so short in my Observations upon Mr. Hunt because he aims many Blows at me in the dark and may be thought in many places to have wounded my Arguments or the Reputation of my Endeavours which he represents as impertinent or like a Contest de lanâ Caprinâ In opposition to my Notion of the Curia Regis he produces another
that of the Nation British Saxon Danish and Latine almost as unintelligible as either of the other that if they had been all digested into the English that was then spoken we should very little better have understood it than we do the French in which the Laws were afterwards rendred And it is no wonder since a Reduction into order was necessary that the King who was to look to the Execution took care to have them in that Language which himself best understood and from whence issued no Inconvenience the former remaining still in the Language in which they had been written CHAP. III. That Mr. Hunt himself in Effect grants that more than Tenants in Chief had right to come to the Great Council of the Nation in which the Nation 's Rights were involved I Do not deny says he but upon a Change in the Succession to the Crown there might have been in this time extraordinary Conventions of the People to declare their universal Assent for better assuring such Successors discountenancing the real Prince and preserving the Peace as in the Case of William the second Henry the first King Stephen and King John c. with an assent of such an Assembly as this at least King John should only if so have made his Kingdom Tributary to the Pope 1. Here he grants that sometimes more than Tenants in Capite assembled at Council 2. That to some purposes such Assemblies were needful not only to quiet the Minds of the People but to transfer over a National Right For he says if ever there were extraordinary Conventions which he owns to have been in some Cases then King John could have made the Kingdom Tributary only in such a Council viz. an extraordinary Convention Wherefore Government being as he says Rei Publicae Communis Sponsio he grants that the Government here was not absolutely in the King and his Tenants in Chief For if it had they might have disposed of all the Nation 's Rights Wherefore in effect he yields That the Men of that Order were not chosen once for all interpretatively by the People in their Consent to the Government But further if he yields us those Authorities which shew that the People of the Land the Free-holders used to assemble for the declaring their Assent to the Supream Governour with what colour can he set aside those Authorities which mention Assemblies to other purposes in as general Terms If an ordinary Free-holder was under the word Populus at an Election to the Crown or Recognition of a Title how comes the Signification to be restrained at other times Will not Vulgus Plebs Populus minor Laici mediocres and the like denote more than Tenants in Capite as well at one publick Assembly in the some King's Reign as at another Unless a prior Law be shewn which excludes the Commons from one Council but admits them to the other But I cannot find any thing more in this Supposition than a downright begging the Question Indeed if William the first made a Conquest of England so as that he divided out all the Lands of the Kingdom to be held of him in Chief And the Alienees of Tenants in Chief still held immediately of the King neither of which will readily be proved then indeed but not till then the Populus Minor at the Councils would be taken for the Tenants in Chief only But the admittance that the presence or consent of more than Tenants in Chief was at any time needful to any Act of rightful Civil Power wholly destroys the supposition of a Conquest unless we can believe that the conquer'd ought to give Laws to the Conqueror or that notwithstanding any kind of Establishment the dernier resort and Supremacy of Power is always in the People Which is a Notion that would unsetle all Governments making them precarious Whereas he himself tells us No Government can be legally or by any lawful Power chang'd but must remain for ever once establish'd CHAP. IV. That even according to Mr. Hunt's Notion of Tenure in Capite all Proprietors of Land as such had till the 49th of H. 3. right to come to Parliament THis though never so strange I think will be granted me that he does if he makes all the Free-holders of the Kingdom Tenants in Capite per Baroniam He supposes that the whole Kingdom was upon the matter turn'd into one great Mannor by William the First all Men made his Tenants And that all the great Possessions by which he must mean the Mannors of which others held were made Baronies Now this Feudal Baronage he says was capable of being multiplied several ways For every part of the Fee however divided the Services reserved upon that Fee that were entire and indivisible were to be performed by the several Proprietors of the several parts of the divided Fee Since he uses this as a Proof of the Multiplication of Baronies according to the Argument Baron-Service was indivisible Thus every Proprietor as he had part of the divided Fee was part of the Baronage and consequently If all the Baronage both Spiritual and Temporal de jure ought to have Summons now to Parliament without respect to Estate or Tenure there would be a great many Pretenders But to be sure when all the Baronage were summoned antiently these inferior Tenants came by his own Rule as owing the Service of Barons and so ratione Tenurae were Barones Regni But the Baronage of England having been always in his Opinion the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Nobility having been Foudal or because of the Feud the Burgesses being all according to him till about the time of H. 3. under Tenure by Baronage were as good Lords as the best And why were not honest Free-holders so too as well as Traders most of them then 't is likely Mechanicks CHAP. V. Whereas he would set aside the Questions of what the Government was till 49th of H. 3. as impertinent 1. His own Notion by which he would supplant the Labours of others destroys it self while mine maintains what he aims at 2. He puts such matter in Issue for asserting the present Government as can never be maintained 3. He yeilds so much of the Fact against me as sets aside the whole Foundation of his Postscript And yet admit he answers all Objections against his Postscript the Grounds which I go upon are of the most General Use. FOr preventing the Worlds being troubl'd with impertinent Labours and to divert those that thus employ themselves to Undertakings more useful to the Publick advantagious to themselves he thought fit to tell us that the Parliament was always materially the same But we are at a loss to know what he means by materially the same For 't is manifest that according to his Notion if the Government were from the time of our Dispute always in one it would have been materially the same as 't is now and
yet he will not allow the Legislative Power to be in one here Every Government says he is the Representative of the People in what they are to be governed by it by their consent to it in the first erecting thereof they do trust their Governours with the Rule and Order of their Lives and Estates for the Common-Weal This seems to be his meaning of materially the same as 't is brought to shew that 't is not needful in order to the maintaining the present right of the Commons to shew That the Counties in all this time had their Representatives in Parliament by the formality of a Choice Which no Man that I know of has of late laboured to prove But if this be his meaning of materially the same then all Governments are materially the same Whereas they may be so formally as founded in the consent of the People which he presupposes But if William the First was an absolute Conqueror as he all along yeilds to Dr. Brady where was the consent of the People to his Government And how can a Government by consent now of constituent parts different from what he thinks ours was at the first Erection by the Conquest be either materially or formally the same with such a Government by Conquest But we must seek further for his meaning in materially the same He tells us the Parliament and the Curia Regis were materially the same that is as one would think there consisted of the same Members the only difference being laid to be in the nature of the Summons And yet he tells us that the ancient Burroughs sent Members to Parliament but that such were not Suitors to the Curia Regis How then were these materially the same Thus 't is plain that he has laid no manner of Foundation for our Government by King Lords and Commons or by King and three States which he takes to have been the Eâ—…entials of our Government from the Conquest but what himself undermines Whereas what I go upon prevents all manner of Pretences for unhinging of it and is the same in effect with what the Great Fortescue observed in the time of H. 6. Et in omnibus Nationum harum Regum earum temporibus regnum illud eisdem quibus jam regiter consuetudinibus continuè regulatum est quae si non optimae extitissent aliqui illorum justitiâ ratione vel affectione concitati eas mut assent Indeed this Assertion of that famous Chancellor has been much exploded by those who think that the altering of some Laws or Customs is a change of the Government And therefore say that he was greatly mistaken because many old Customs have been abolish'd Whereas he certainly meant it of the Fundamental Constitution Which as far as ever I could learn was and is that every Proprietor of Land especially should in the General Council of the Kingdom consent to the making those Laws under which they were to Live In the time of the Confessor as appears in the Transcript of his Laws there was a Folcmote or General Assembly of the People of all the Counties of England which was to be held once a Year on the Kalends of May to treat of all Matters of State and Publick Concern the very Law for such Assembly was received and confirmed in the 4th of William the First So that then by Law and of Right whatever was the Fact the People of all the Counties of England that is all the Members of the County Courts the Free-holders were to meet in a Great Council or Parliament as we now call it Admit that this is to be taken of every County respectively which were to make as many distinct Governments as Counties still the Adunatio Conciliorum or Calling together of the Counties and Hundreds as often as there was need which H. the â—…st promis'd by his Charter would come to the same thing And that all the Members of the several County Courts were Members of the Great or General Council and came accordingly if they pleased Not to mention the several Authorities by me formerly insisted on I conceive may appear by comparing two Authors of undoubted Credit and sufficient Antiquity who shew what the Great Council was in the time of Henry the second In the 16 of Henry the second that King held his Easter Court Baron at Windsor as Bromton shews us Rer tenuit Curiam suam in solemnitate Paschali Thither indeed were flock't most of the Nobility fere omnes Regni Anglae Episcopii Magnates But this being a Curia de more or an ordinary Court which no more than Tenants in Chief were obliged to take notice of nothing of universal Obligation could then be Establish'd Wherefore from hence the King went to London where as that Historian says de Coronatione Filij sui Henrici majores Regui sui Statutis magnum celebravit Concilium Gervasius who lived in that very time acquaints us particularly with the Summons and Appearance thereupon Convenerunt die Statuto ex mandato Regis ad Londoniam totius Angliae Episcopi Abbates Comites Barones Vice-comites Praepositi Aldermanni cum Fide-iussoribus suis. There assembled at London according to the King's Summons the Bishops Abbots Sheriffs the Heads of Hundreds and of Tythings with all the Frank-pledges throughout England unless the Fide-jussores Answer to the Manucaptores of which immediately If this take not in all the Free-holders of England I know not what will for he that was within no free-pledge or was no Fide-jussor was either an Out-Law or not his own Man but his that was to be answerable for him But every Master of a Family or Free-holder that was within the Protection of the Laws was one of the Frank-pledges And indeed Bronton tells us in express Terms that all the Libere sui Regni tenentes all the Free-holders of the Kingdom were there for they all swore Allegiance to the young King as well as to the Father Omnes Comites Barones liberos Regni sui tenentes devenire homines novi Regis Filij sui sibique super reliquias sanctorum Ligeantias Fidelitates jurare Fidelitate semper nihilominus suâ salvâ But if the Fidejussores mentioned in Gervasius were no more than the Manucaptores which used to answer for the Appearance of them that were chose to represent the Counties Cities and Boroughs in Parliament then here is positive proof of such Representation of the Commons as was in the times of Edw. I. Edw. II. and so downwards Yet 't is not improbable that the Pledges or Manucaptors for the Knights Citizens and Burgesses chose to parliament were introduced long after this time instead of the Fidejussors or Frank-pledges when that admirable ancient Polity about Frank-pledges became impracticable and was discontinued or broken through the general Corruption of Manners which rendred it impossible for whole Neighbourhoods to answer for
258 to A a 263 wherefore the Point of Conquest examined and what improvement is made of the admittance of it 293 to 300 Constitutions of Clarendon expounded and the Bishops Wings clipt there 144 to 166 Convocation of the Clergy 81 82 127 137 S 290 Corporations an account of them and of their ancient Interest in Parliament 276 to 286 3d part Coventry its first Representation in Parliament B b 279 Crimes some that did laedere Majestatem Regiam not capital 172 in marg Curia Regis of various Acceptation 150 Curia Regis how far Mr. W. and Mr. Hunt agree with the Author against Dr. Brady as to its being distinct from the General Council of the Nation V 204 Objection against them where their Notion of it differs from the Authors 205 particular Objections against Mr. W's Notion of it 209 X 210 Mr. Hunt's mistake about it 231 to Y 235 D. DAnby's Plea O 197 Demeasn the Kings of England never had all the Lands of the Kingdom in demeasn 3d part p. 253 to 255 Dictare Sententiam how understood N 179 Doctor Oates vndicated P 222 Doctor Standish his Case 47 S 291 E. EArls and Barons are the Peers of the Realm 22 23 24 R. 263 Earls and Barons consiliarij nati 138 Earl of Arundel's Case O 208 Earl of Hereford and Glocester their Case T 287 V 189 Earl Godwin his Appeal Q 227 Earl of Northumberland 51 54 R 274 275 Earl of Salisbury Kent Huntington their Case 50 Ellis William's Case 35 Errors none by the Bishops absence 47 Estate Bishops but part of a 3d Estate 80 to 85 Exegetical where words used exegetically 52 X 213 Explication of several words quosque Judicium pervenior 155 156 Exposition of words according to the standing 18 to 25 52 X 212 to Y 226 and Q 233 234 F. FErrer's Sir Ralph's Case 39 Fitstephen's Authority examined 77 Fortescuâ—… his Authority B b 271 Form of Writs no Proof of Right 86 Franck-pledges at a Great Council of the Kingdom and who within them B b 273 274 275 283 284 G. GEntlemen how became so C c 285 Glocester Earl and Hereford their Case T 287 and V 189 Godwin Earl his Appeal Q 227 Gomentez and Weston their Cases 37 Grants where the Bishops not comprehended under that word itsextent 32 S 278 279 Government the same before 49 H. 3. as since 3d part 271 to 290 Gurney Thomas 26 H. HAxy Thomas his Case 43 Henry Hotspur's Case S 281 282 283 Huntington's Earl Case 50 S 280 Hunt Mr. the Censure of his Book Pref. to the second Treatise His wrong Translation of non licet in mar 157 His Mistakes Y 229 c. Reasons why he might have spared his Censures Y 228 229 I. IMpeachment when by the Commons the Lords obliged to to try a Commoner 14 Interesse ubi judicium sanguinis tractatur vel exercetur prohibited 158 John Imperial's Case 39 R 264 Irregularity P 221 222 223 Judicial Power in Capital Cases denied the Bishops in the Northern Kingdoms 90 Judicial Power denied them here by Canon Common and Statute Law Vid. Bishops Absence not meerly from the Canons Judgments in which the Bishops had share 11 Judicium a word of various Acceptations 155 Judgments alledged to be void for the Absence of the Bishops 11 195 O 196 Judgments in Parliament and the Curia Regis how reconciled General Pref. V fin K. KEnt Earl S 280 King cannot make an Estate 126 127 King Stephen's Grants reversed at Clarendon 141 142 King Rich. II. undecently reflected on O 194 L. LAwyers confessedly differ from the Questionist as to the Trial of Bishops T 277 and V 194 Laws made upon a dubious Title good 45 46 P 209 to 214 Laws concerning the matter and manner of their making 44 45 Lay-men used to meet with the Clergy in their Councils 157 Lee Sir John's Case 35 Legislative Power in capital Matters allowed to Bishops yet no judicial Power inferred Gen. Pref. 87 88 131 132 and even that an Abuse crept in since Hen. VIII 88 London a Corporation at the Common Law B b 282 Lord Latimer Lions Richard c. 35 Lords of Parliament 36 Lords Temporal expresly named in the Record as sole Iudges 40 58 and R 276 S 280 M. MAnucaptors B b 274 March Earl 22 Mautraver's Case 20 51 279 S 280 281 ibid. Modus tenendi Parl. its Antiquity 121 Molross the Abby its Case and the Authority of that Book answered G 206 207 Mortimer Sir Iohn's case whether judg'd by Act of Parliament 56 to 59 R 262 Mortimer Roger's Case 14 and R 262 N. NAmes equivocal no good Argument from thence P 227 Nevel Lord 35 Nobilitas Major how made 113 Bishops no part of such Nobility S 287 Northumberland Earl R 51 54 274 275 O. OAts Dr. vindicated P 222 Objections from Reason against Mr. W. and Mr. Hunt where they differ from the Autthor's Notion of the Curia Regis 3d part 205 206 Ocle William 26 Old-Castle Sir John 55 Old Modus its Antiquity 121 Omnipotency and the Bishop's Affectation of it in what sense understood by Lord H. 152 153 Orlton's Case R 267 P. PArdons made revocable at Pleasure O 195 Parliament when the word first in use 121 Parliament at Clarendon 139 Peace of the Bishops refusing to give Counsel about it 30 31 R 266 269 Percy Henry's Case 53 Peers of the Realm who 20 21 Pessimae Consuetudines what 140 142 Petrus Blessensis his Testimony 97 98 125 167 168 R 261 Plain dealing 147 Plea of the Earl of Danby O 197 Pool William Duke of Suffolk 13 T 286 Pool Michael's Case 33 34 R 272 Presidents urged against Lord Hollis make for him 14 Proctors or Proxies why the Bishops desire to make them 12 concerning their making them 46 162 197 199 B 200 201 204 205 Proprietors of Land as such their Interest in the Great Council of the Kingdom Y 230 231 and B b 273 to 291 Protestations of the Lord Hollis his Sincerity 6 Protestation made by the Bishops 11 R 2 5 6 7 8 41 42 43 and O 185 to 194 Protestations in the names of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal 8 13 Protomartyr 49 Q. QUestion concerning the Bishops stated 10 11 R. REcapitulation of Arguments against the Bishops being Iudges in case of Blood N 184 Again more fully P 223 224. Q 225. S 277 Rickhil Sir William's Case 48 Reflections upon R. the 2d undecent O 194 Regradation of Peers V 190 S. SAlisbury Earl's Case 50 Sautree William's Case 49 Scheme of the Government as it anciently stood and now stands B b 271 to 291 Scripture against the Bishops their medling in Secular Affairs 134 Scroop Lord. 50 Segrave's Case 61 62 and Q 232 233. T 287 Seniores Populi who meant by them 167 170 Sinister ends in the Parliament 21 R. 2. O 195 Spencer's their Case 48 O 197 198. and Q 234 Standish his Case 47 and S 291 Statute 27. Ed. Ist. c. 3.
by the institutions of the Holy Canons to be personally present and that of Right they cannot nor ought to be there and therefore they do not intend in any sort quomodolibet to be present but wholly to absent themselves while those matters are handling Can any man now have the fore-head to maintain that they could have a thought of challenging still a right contrary to such prohibitions and to say that it was only the Canon Law that did prohibit them I say still that the Canon Law was to them above all Laws and the Prelates of those times conceived themselves to be above all other Laws even not to be subject to them but what the Canon Law did allow or forbid was accordingly by them held to be most lawful or unlawful The Salvo they add makes it clear Iure paritatis nostrae cujuâ—…ibet eorum interessendi in dicto Parliamento quoad omnia singula inibi exercenda nostris eorum cujuâ—…ibet Statui Ordini congruentia in omnibus salbis The right of our Parity and of every one of them that is our equal right in the general and of every one of us in particular with the rest of the Lords of being present and acting in the said Parliament as to all things and every thing befitting our State and Order always remaining unto us safe and entire Now I would ask if it can be imagined that they would by way of Protestation reserve to themselves a liberty when they pleased to do what they said was not lawful for them to do and that which of right and according to the Law to which they were subject and must obey they could not nor ought to meddle with And if such things can be thought to be Statui Ordini congruentia for their Salvo extends only to such things as are agreeable to their State and Order Indeed I think it a solecism to have such a thought And I know it will be excepted against that I do take Paritas here in such a sense and not to be Nomen Apellativum to signifie Peerage a rank of men but I consider how it is put that it is Paritas interessendi in Parliamento which in my opinion is proper to render a Parity or an equal right with others to be present in Parliament But let them construe it Peerage it matters not to me I have handled that point fully by it self in my former Letter and shall do it again in this before I make an end to shew I am not afraid of that expression and though in those times the Prelates gave themselves sometimes that Character that it did not at all belong unto them And he beats upon this again That this was left out purposely by me in my citing this Protestation which I have sufficiently cleared already amongst his Postulata's therefore I shall not trouble you with it again in this place In the Case of Thomas Haxey 20 R. 2. my Gentleman is so ingenious as to say He believes the Bishops were not present but then he tells you why because it was an erroneous Judgment and an Irregular Condemnation and so commends their Prudence And sure he hath been with some Witch to raise some of those Prelates from the Grave as the Witch of Endor did Samuel to tell him the true cause why they withdrew themselves and did then forbear to use their Right as he saith it is lawful for every man to do else he could never have hit so pat upon the true cause of their withdrawing whereas otherwise a man might say it was because they knew they had no right to be there and if it had been their right they should the rather have made use of it to prevent and hinder an unrighteous Judgement and have caused a righteous one to be given And more than that if it was their Right and that they had a calling to be there they were bound to attend the Service and I think it would have been a breach of Duty and a Sin in them to withdraw themselves from it And now I come to a Bundle of Words indeed it is what he says concerning their Proxies 21 R. 2. out of which one shall have much ado to pick some sense and what it is he would be at I will do my endeavour in it He first puts us in mind of his fifth Postulatum and of what he said there of the difference between the Matter of a Law and the Manner of its enacting and that a Law may be repealed for the Matter of it and yet the Manner of making it still hold good This I suppose he saith because I except against the authority which that Parliament at the desire of the Commons gave the Bishops to make their Common Procurator in regard that whole Parliament was afterwards repealed and consequently all it did made null and void Yes saith he the Parliament was repealed by 1 H. 4. because it condemned those who were his friends as Traytors to the King and Government yet the proceedings in that Parliament were just and lawful To which I answer That what was done that Parliament agreeing with the practice and usage of other Parliaments was certainly just for the Manner of the doing though the Matter might be repealed and made null But what was never done before in any Parliament nor any thing like it could not receive any stamp of Authority for its being done in this Parliament because the Parliament it self had no authority a subsequent Parliament repealing it and making it as if it had never been And this of all the Bishops joyning to make a Common Proctor was never done in any Parliament before nor since If any should object that Henry the Fourth was an Usurper and had no right nor Title to repeal former Parliaments nor to make any Laws This were an Objection if it should be allowed would have a long tail and carry a very bad consequence for it would sweep away at once all the good Laws that were made in three Kings raigns and would make such a Hiatus in our Statute Laws as would put things into a very great disorder We know that in Edward the Fourth's time which followed immediately after those three Henries in all the Acts of Parliament which passed when mention is made of any thing done in those Kings Reigns still what was done is allowed of and confirmed and to their Persons and Government the Parliament still gives this Character that they were Kings indeed but not of right Which implies the stamp of Soveraign power and authority to be set upon all their actions and so upon the Parliaments that were summoned and held by them and principally there because of the concurrence and conjunction of the whole Kingdome in all things there done Nay in some Acts of Parliament we find care taken that nothing should clash with what had been done in Parliament by some of those Kings as 14 E. 4. c. 4. there is a Statute