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england_n	john_n	lord_n	sir_n	20,088	5	6.7459	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A90187	Severall papers of the treatie between His Excellencie Iames Marques of Ormond, Lord Lieutenant Generall of Ireland for the King, on the one part; and Sir Thomas Wharton, Sir Robert King, Sir John Clotworthy, Sir Robert Meredith, knights, and Richard Salwey Esquire, commissioners authorized by the two Houses of Parliament of England; on the other part. VVith the commissioners instructions concerning the Lord of Ormond; the instructions concerning the Protestants of Ireland, & compositions of delinquents: His Excellencies answer; and the Lord Lieutenants reply. With their reply to all his exceptions. And the Kings Maj. directions.	Ireland. Lord Lieutenant (1641-1649 : Ormonde); Ormonde, James Butler, Duke of, 1610-1688.; Wharton, Thomas, Sir.; England and Wales. Sovereign (1625-1649 : Charles I); England and Wales. Parliament.	1646 (1646)	Wing O458A; Thomason E378_4; ESTC R201374	32,080	45

SEVERALL PAPERS OF THE TREATIE BETWEEN His Excellencie IAMES Marques of ORMOND Lord Lieutenant Generall of IRELAND for the KING on the one part AND Sir Thomas Wharton Sir Robert King Sir John Clotworthy Sir Robert Meredith Knights and Richard Salwey Esquire Commissioners authorized by the Two Houses of PARLIAMENT of ENGLAND on the other part VVith the Commissioners Instructions concerning the Lord of Ormond the Instructions concerning the Protestants of Ireland Compositions of Delinquents His Excellencies Propositions and the Commissioners their Answer and the Lord Lieutenants Reply With their Reply to all his Exceptions And the Kings Maj. Directions DVBLIN Printed by William Blad●n Printer to the Kings most Excellent Majesty Anno Dom. 1646. At the Committee of Lords and Commons at Darby house BY Vertue of an Ordinance of Parl. of the 15. of this instant October authorizing us We do constitute and appoint you Sir T. Whatton Sir Rob. King Sir John Clatworthy and Sir Robert Meredith Knights and Rich. Salwey Esq Commissioners to treat with the Lord of Ormond for and concerning the delivery of the Sword the City of Dublin and all other Garrisons and Holds in his power And you or any three of you have hereby power to treat with the said L. of Ormond concerning the premises and to agree conclude with him concerning the same acoording to such instructions as are delivered unto you Given this 23 of October 1646. Northumberland E. Manchester P. Lisle P. Wharton W. Peirrepoint Denzel Hollis P. Stapleton W. Lewis J. Temple Ro. Goodwyn Copia vera Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Die Lunae 12. October 1646. IT is this day Ordered by the Commons assembled in Parliament That it be referred to the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdomes to consider of these Letters and to receive the Addresses of the Commissioners from Ireland and their Prop●sitions and to view and consider of their Instructions and the Members of this House that are of the Committee of both Kingdomes or any four of them have power to meet this Afternoon at two of the clock in Darby-house for the purposes aforesaid and haue power to report tomorrow if they shall see occasion And the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland Mr. Hollis Sir John Clotworthy and Sir Iohn Temple have power and are desired to be present at the meeting of this Committee Mr. Na. Fi●es Sir W. Lewis and Mr. Rob. Goodwyn are added to this Committee Hen. Elsynge Cler. Parl. D. Com. Die Jovis 15. Octobris 1646. THE Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament do declare that they resolve to proceed upon the second way of Overture made by the Earl of Ormond and will appoint some way of treating with him for his Retirement and will imploy such as they shall think fit in the Trust of that Kingdome John Brown Cler. Parliament Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Die Jovis 15. Octobris 1646. ORdered by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled That the whole Affaire concerning Ireland in respect of the secresie and expedition thereunto necessary be referred back to the former Committee And the Committee hath power to give Instructions to such as they shall imploy for the pursuance and transaction of that Affaire and to Order the Forc●s that shall go thither and to dispose of the Ammunition and other Provisions for the Service of Ireland as they shall judge best for the Publique Service and are to meet this Afternoon and so from time to time as they shall see cause John Brown Cler. Parliament Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Instructions for Sir Tho. Wharton Sir Rob. King Sir John Clotworthy Sir Rob. Meredith Knights and Rich. Salwey Esq concerning the Lord of Ormond YOu are to declare to the L. of Ormond the E. of Roscommon and the rest of those that signed the Instructions to Sir Gerrard Lowther Sir Francis Willoughby and Sir Panl Davies That the Parliament will take into their Care and Protection the Protestants of Ireland If the L. of Ormond do within foure dayes deliver up the Swo●d render all the Garrisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament Then you or any three of you are to give these ensuing Conditions 1. That the L. of Ormond shall enjoy his estate without molestation or disturbance from the Parl. And shall have indempnity against all debts contracted by reason of any Goods Money Debts or Victuals taken up by vertue of any Warrants signed by him and the Councel from any person for the maintenance and support of the Armies or any of the Garrisons now under his Command 2. That he shall be protected in his Person and Goods for the space of 12 moneths against all Suits Arrests Molestation or Disturbance from any person whatsoever for any Debts owing by him to any person whatsoever before the Rebellion there 3. That the L. of Ormond and all such Noblemen Gentlemen and Officers as shall be desirous to go with him or by themselves into any other place out of that Kingdom shall have free Passes for themselves their Families Goods travelling Arms and a competent number of servants sutable to their respective Qualities 4. That the L. of Ormond shall have 5000. l. paid him in England or Ireland in such manner as shall seeme best to the Commissioners now sent And shall have also 2000. l. per annum for 5 yeares And if the Warre shall longer continue in such manner as he cannot receive 2000. l. per annum out of his owne Estate That then he shall have the said Pension of 2000. l. per annum still continued untill he can receive so much out of his own estate 5. That the L. of Ormond shall have liberty to come and live here in England With the like liberty that others have he submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament And for the time of 12 moneths shall not be pressed to any Oaths he ingaging his honour to do nothing in the mean time that shall be disservice to the Parliament Darby-house 17 Octob. 1646. A. Northumberland E. Manchester P. Lisle P. Wharton W. Pierrepoint Denzel Hollis W. Waller W. Armyn Ph. Stapleton Iohn Temple W. Lewis Ro. Wallop Vera Copia Ex. W. Rowe Secr. Novemb. 15. 1646. VVE find in the Instructions delivered in by you unto us That you are to declare unto us and the rest that signed the Instructions to Sir Gerard Lowther c. That the Parl. will take into their Gare and Protection the Protestants of Ireland We desire to know whether by these words viz. That the Parl. will take into their Gare and Protection the Protestants of Ireland All the Protestants of Ireland are to enjoy their Laws Liberties Estates and Imployments without molestation or disturbance from the Parliament of England ORMOND Novem. 15. 1646. VVEE find by the Instructions delivered in by you unto us these words viz. If the Lord of Ormond doe within 4 dayes deliver up the Sword render all the Garrisons and other Commands

Rich. Salwey 18 November 1646. In the Copy of some of the Instructions delivered by you unto us it is thus expressed That if the Lord of Ormond do within 4 dayes deliver up the sword render up all the Garcisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament then you or any three of you are to give these ensuing Conditions c. And in your second paper of the 15. of Novemb 1646. you expresse your selves amongst other things as followeth viz. Wee who are appointed Commissioners by authority from the Parl. of England are to receive from your Lordship if the treaty succeed the Sword and Garrisons under your Command for the use of the Parl. of England To which and your other papers before we can make answer we desire to know whether you have his Majesties Direction and Command unto us for our so doing Ormond 18. November 1646. To your Lordships first paper of the 18. of this moneth we answer that we have not his Maj. direction and command unto your Lordship for delivering up the Sword rendring up all the Garrisons and Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament Rob. Meredith Tho. Wharton Rob. King John Clotworthy Rich. Salwey 18. Novemb. 1646. The papers delivered by you unto us whereunto you desire our positive answer gave occasion vnto us to take into consideration aswell the Propositions and Instructions signed by us alone and sent by our Commissioners to be presented to the Parliament of England as also the Propositions and Instructions signed by us and the Councell of this Kingdome and other Propositions and Instructions signed by the said Councell a-part and sent by our said Commissioners to be in like sort presented all which Propositions and Instructions they delivered to the Committee of both honses appointed to consider thereof who took Copies of the said Propositions and Instructions Copies of which Propositions signed by us alone we think fit to insert herein viz. Propositions of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to be presented c. THat the said Lord Lieutenant will prosecute the Warre against the Irish Rebels as vigorously as he shall be thereunto enabled by the Pari. of England and that he will faithfully serve the Crown of England therein 2 That whilst he hath the Government of this Kingdom and the Command of the Armies therein none of the Supplies of Men Money Arms Munition Victuals or any other provisions of what kind or nature soever which shall by the PARLIAMENT of ENGLAND be sent over or joyned with the Forces already under his Command nor any other Forces that shall be under his Command shall in any wise be imployed either within this Kingdome or out of it but by the expresse direction of the said Parliament of England 3 That he will not upon any Command or by vertue of any power or authority whatsoever enter into any Treaty with the said Irish Rebels or conclude any Peace or Cessation with them without the consent and expresse Command of the King and Parliament of England 4. He will ingage himself to the true performance of all these things by Oath or by any other meanes that can be proposed to a man of Honour and Conscience 26 Septemb. 1646. Ormond Now forasmuch as we do not find by our papers that any one of the said Propositions which haue been transmi●●ed from hence is assented unto by the Parl. of England though we have pressed you by severall papers to know how farre they were assented unto And for that it appeareth unto us by those papers that no Copies of the said Propositions or Instructions were delivered unto you and that when we upon that signification did offer unto you copies of both you did not think it expedient upon this occasion to receive the same from us And for that by the papers and copies of Instructions delivered by you unto us We find ●o security offered to any of the Protestants but to such as you shall condition withall and who shall submit to all Ordinances of Parliament whereas we expected that all should bee included and provided for in and by the present Treaty and what those conditions o● Ordinances of Parliament are you doe not ascertaine by any of your papers And for that it doth not appear unto us by any the Instructions whereof you have delivered copies unto us that you have power to secure any other of his Majesties Subjects who have constantly adhered to the Government here since the 22 of October 1641. in their persons and estates And for that the Officers of his Majesties Army here and the Judges and Ministers of the Civil List have no assurance given them for their continuance in their respective imployments your expression as unto them being as follo weth viz. Concerning the continuation and displacing of the Judges and Ministers of the civill List in their imployments we are not instructed therein but for the Officers of the Martiall List we have power by our Instructions and do intend accordingly to imploy such of them as shall be found fit for the service which giveth no assurance unto any one of the Martiall List and leaveth the Civill List without any security taketh no notice of the poore distressed Clergy of the Kingdom In all which particulars being contained in our Propositions and Instructions we did hopr that the Parl. of England would have giuen us satisfaction which being not yet done for any thing made known by you to us and for that you have by your paper of the 18. of Novemb. 1646. declared unto us that you have not his Maj. direction and command unto us for delivering up the Sword rendring up all the Garrisons and Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament which you by your second paper of the 15. of Novemb. 1646. desire to be rendred unto you to the use of the Parliament without any relation in your said paper to the King we hold it not consistent with our Duty to his Majesty to part with so great a Trust committed to our charge in manner as by your papers is desired without his Maj. expresse and positive Directions and therefore may not assent thereunto Ormond 18. Novemb. 1646 Whereas we did together with our first paper of the 16. of Novemb. deliver in to your Lordship an authentique copy of the additionall instruction concerning the Protestants of Ireland unto which your Lordship hath taken severall exceptions we think good for your satisfaction therein now to declare that we intend that all Protestants whatsoever of the Kingdome of Ireland not having been in the Irish Rebellion shall be included in this treaty and receive the full benefit expres●n the said instruction And that the conditions implyed in that instruction to be imposed on them shall be understood as followeth viz. Whereas it is said they shall enjoy those their Estates and Goods without any molestation or question from the Parl. as nay others do who have not offended the Parl. they submitting to all Ordinances

your Answer the strength of your reason being thus That we did submit to the direction of both Houses of Parliament for the ordering of the Army c. therefore no inconvenience can happen to the Protestants in Ireland who are to be included in this Treaty if they should thereby conclude themselves to submit to all Ordinances of the Parliament of England which sure is no good Consequence from one particular to conclude a generall And if you would declare that by submitting to all Ordinances of Parliament were onely intended such Ordinances as concerne the ordering and disposing of the Army though that offer of Ours was in case that way of accommodation which is waved by the Parliament were laid hold of of any thing wherein we therefore conceive no use should be made in this Treaty since that way laid aside yet such a declaration would as that point give satisfaction The fifth exception is That the Kings Direction for the delivery up of the Government is not obtained and that our Commissioners were commanded to forbeare the delivering unto the Scottish Commissioners the Duplicate of the Letters which Wee and the Councell had written to his Majesty concerning the same To which you make these Answers viz. That our Commissioners did declare That if Supplies were not instantly dispatched that We would take it for granted that none would be sent which was the ground of hastning the said Supplies whereas the words of our Instructions wero That if within a reasonable time after landing of our Commissioners they did not advertise us that those things we desired were on the way hither or at least a considerable proportion of Money and Munition and probable hope of the rest speedily after that then wee would take it for granted not that no Supplies would come but that our Propositions were rejected there which strongly implyed and so was intended that if we understood Supplies were on the way we might then take it for granted our propositions were accepted which also we had cause to believe for that our Commissioners by command of the Committee before whom they were heard signifyed to us their message was cheerfully accepted whereof the sending of Supplies was but a part nor can it be reasonably objected to us that we refuse those Supplies since none of the Conditions wherein we expressed our willingnes to receive them is offered to us in manner as was desired especially that fundamentall one of procuring the Kings Command for delivering up the Sword and Garrisons which being the way fixed on by the Parliament we much wonder was not endeavoured as well it might have been and an answer had before you came from London and if it had been obtained there had been no need of sending it to us till your arrivall and if it had been refused the Parliament in their great wisdome and knowledge of the duty of one so highly trusted would have found some other expedient to extend their assistance and protection to the Protestants other then such as must blemish our honour and fidelity to all Posterity nor is it a sufficient discharge to us that his Majesty hath not inhibited us to proceed and conclude with you his expresse command being in this case absolutely necessary And as for the suppositions and inferences which you make out of the Letters writ by us to his Majey and both houses of Parliament as that it could not be imagined the necessities being so great under which we then were that we would refuse such supplies from the Parliament in manner as they directed till our letter should be from hence sent to New castle and answer thereof returned to us And that the Parliament had no reason to conceive that we intended so to insist on the Kings direction as without it we would not conclude c. As also considering how passionately we represented to the Parliament the importance of the City and Castle of Dublin c. and how undoubtedly all must miscarry if Supplies did not speedily come that yet the Kings consent should be so insisted upon as none of the forementioned considerations should purchase a dispensation therein And to induce us thereunto you propose unto us examples of the delivering up of other Garrisons and Forces in England as in particular that of Oxford c. without having any explicite direction from the King to deliver up the same We conceive the case of Oxford to be different from this For Sir Thomas Fairfax to whom the City of Oxford was rendred after some time of formall Singe and the shedding of blood on both fides was not invited thither by those within to defend and relieve it against the expected attempts of another enemy as those Forces now here with you were upon certain Conditions by us but his comming before Oxford was unsent for openly and declaredly to take by force of Armes that City In the case of Oxford also we have seen his Majesties Command directed to the Governour for the rendring thereof which if you can produce to us for the giving up of these Garrisons with the E●sig●es of Royalty belonging to the Crown of this Kingdome we will in like sort readily obey the same notwithstanding some other disparity in the cases And if the instructions we gave our Commissioners be looked into Copies whereof were delivered by them to the Committee of both houses all these suspitions inferences and Arguments will vanish it being a certain and true rule that no inference nor application is to be made contrary to that which is exprest as our instructions were in this particular for our first and principall instruction was That we would surrender our place of Lievtenant c. to such as the Parliament should appoint upon these following conditions First that they procure his Majesties direction for the doing thereof c. But further to cleere it in our seventh and last instruction delivered unto our Commissioners whereof the said Committee had likewise a Coppy it is further given in charge unto them in this manner viz. If in the mean time whilest they take these Propositions and the rest into their considerations and till they have procured his M●j●sties direction as aforesaid the Parliament be pleased to send over such Supplyes as may relieve the Garrisons from ruine through want or by the hostile attempts of the Rebels the same shall be well husbanded for them and imployed only to those ends both which instructions leave no place for inference or implication to be made contrary to expresse instructions If the Parliament hath procured his Majesties direction the condition is performed but if that be not done the Forces notwithstanding may be received and imployed in the present service and ●o all those inconveniencies may be prevented which are feared But if nothing that we can do can give satisfaction but to deliver up the Sword render all the Garrisons and other Commands to the pleasure of the Parliament which we are bound by Oath to