Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	john_n	king_n	lewis_n	3,557	5	11.1220	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A61556	The grand question, concerning the Bishops right to vote in Parliament in cases capital stated and argued, from the Parliament-rolls, and the history of former times : with an enquiry into their peerage, and the three estates in Parliament.	Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699.	1680 (1680)	Wing S5594; ESTC R19869	81,456	194

the Examination of a Case Capital What the importance of this phrase of full Parlament is will best appear by the use of it in the Records of that time 4 Ed. III. n. 6. Et est assentu accorde per nostre Seigneur le Roi touz les Grantz en pleyn Parlement Where it was agreed that the procedings at that time by the Lords against those who were not Peers should not be drawn into consequence and that the Peers should be charged onely to try Peers Which hath all the formality of an Act of Parlament and therefore all the Estates were present n. 8. Accorde est per nostre Seigneur le Roi son Conseil en pleyn Parlement Which was an Act of Pardon concerning those who followed the Earl of Lancaster 5 Ed. III. n. 10. we have the particular mention of the Bishops as some of those who do make a full Parlament Accorde est per nostre Seigneur le Roi Prelatz Countes Barons autres Grantz du Roialm en pleyn Parlement and n. 17. En pleyn Parlement si prierent les Prelatz Countes Barons autres Grantz de mesme le Parlement a nostre Seigneur le Roi c. 6 Ed. III. n. 5. the Archbishop of Canterbury made his Oration en pleyn Parlement which is explained by en la presence nostre Seigneur le Roi de touz les Prelatz autres Grantz n. 9. Si est accorde assentu per touz en pleyn Parlement who those were we are told before in the same number viz. les Prelatz Countes Baronns touz les autres somons a mesme le Parlement Which is the clearest explication of full Parlament in the presence of all those who were summon'd to Parlament From whence it follows that where a full Parlament was mention'd at that time the Bishops were certainly present and consequently did assist at the Trial of Thomas Lord Berkely who appeared before the King in full Parlament as Nich. de Segrave did 33 Ed. I. and there the Bishops are expresly mention'd as present as appears by what hath been said before concerning his Case 5 H. IV. Henry Hotspur Son to the Earl of Northumberland was declared a Traitour by the King and Lords in full Parlament and the same day the Father was upon examination acquitted of Treason by the Peers It is not said that this was done in full Parlament as the other was but there are several circumstances which make it very probable the Bishops were then present 1. When the Earl of Northumberland took his Oath of Fidelity to the King he did it saith the Record upon the Cross of the Archbishop which was to be carried before him if he went out of the House 2. The Archbishop of Canterbury pray'd the King that forasmuch as himself and other Bishops were suspected to be in Piercie's Conspiracy that the Earl might upon his Oath declare the truth who thereupon did clear them all Which shews that the Archbishop was then present in the House And for the same reason that he was present we may justly suppose the other Bishops to have been so too 3. The Earl of Northumberland beseeched the Lords and Earls and Commoners that if he brake this Oath they would intercede no more with the King for him Now the better to understand this we are to consider that H. IV. takes notice in his declaration upon the Rebellion of Sir Henry Piercy that the Earl of Northumberland and his Son gave out that they could have no access to the King but by the Mediation of the Bishops and Earls and therefore did beseech them to intercede with the King for them It is not then probable that those should be now left out when the words are large enough to comprehend them and no one circumstance is brought to exclude them For that general one of their not being Peers will be fully refuted afterwards But that which puts this out of dispute is 4. that the Record saith n. 17. the Commons not onely gave the King thanks for the pardon of the Earl of Northumberland but the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in these remarkable words Et au●i mesmes les Cōes remercierment les Seigneurs Espirituelx Temporelx de lour bon droiturell judgment quils avoient fait come Piers du Parlement And likewise the Commons gave thanks to the Lords Spiritual and Temporal for the good and right Iudgment which they had given in this case as Peers of Parlament Which is a clear Precedent of the Bishops judging in a Capital Case and that as Peers 2 H. VI. n. 9. Iohn Lord Talbott had accused Iames Boteler Earl of Ormond of sundry Treasons before the King and his great Council and after before Iohn Duke of Bedford Constable of England The King takes advice of his Parlament about it and then it is expresly said in the Record De avisamento assensit Dominorum Spiritualium Temporalium ac Communitatis Regni Anglie in eodem Parlamento existent ' facta fuit quedam abolitio delationis nuntiationis detectionis predict c. Here the King adviseth with the Lords Spiritual in an accusation of Treason and therefore they must be present in the debates concerning it I leave now any considerate person to judge impartially on which side the Right lies For on the one side 1. There is the Constitution of Clarendon interpreted by H. II. and the Bishops at Northampton 2. A Protestation of their Right enter'd and allowed by King Lords and Commons 11 R. II. 3. A Reversing of Iudgments owned by Parlament for want of their presence 21 R. II. 4. A Preserving of their Right by Proxie when they thought their Personal attendance contrary to the Canons 5. A Bar to a total discontinuance of their personal Right by an allowed Precedent 28 H. VI. 6. A Restoring them to their former Right by removing of the force of the Canon-Law upon the Reformation 7. No one Law or Precedent produced for excluding them even in those Times when they thought the Canons did forbid their presence 8. Several Precedents upon Record wherein they were present at Examinations and Debates about Cases Capital On the other side 1. The Precedents are General and Negative 2. Or relating to such Cases wherein they are allowed to be present 3. Or of Iudgments condemned as erroneous by Parlament 4. Or of voluntary Withdrawing with Protestation of their Right and making of Proxies 5. Or of not being present at the passing of Iudgment out of regard to the Canon-Law And now on which side the Right lies let the Authour of the Letter himself judge CHAP. IV. The Peerage of the Bishops cleared how far they make a third Estate in Parlament Objections against it answered THERE remain Two things to be considered which are put in by way of Postscript by the Authour of the Letter the one concerns the Peerage of the Bishops the other their Being a Third Estate in Parlament 1.

Rochester in H. VIII ' s time which is the great Precedent in the Law-Books 3. The method of Proceeding as to the Trial of Bishops by Common Iuries while the Pope's Power continued in England is not so clear that any forcible Argument can be drawn from thence Because the Bishops then looked on themselves as having no Peers out of Parlament in point of Judgment but Bishops As in the famous Case of Adam Bishop of Hereford under Edw. II. who was rescued from the King's Bench by his Brethren the Bishops because they looked on his appearing there as a Violation of the Liberties of the Church I do not go about to defend these Proceedings but I am sure the Authour of the Peerage c. very much misrepresents this business for he makes it as if the Bishop were legally convicted in Court by a common Iury and that after conviction he was deliver'd to the Archbishop to the intent as he supposes that he should be degraded Whereas in truth the Bishops carried him out of the Court without his giving any Answer to the Endictment and when he was absent the King commanded the Iury to bring in their Verdict and without ever being heard to make any Defence for himself they found him guilty in all the Articles laid to his Charge That Authour very freely bestows the terms of Impudence on the Bishops of that time and Ignorance on those who go about to defend them but I desire to know whether of these two makes a man thus misrepresent a matter of fact For it was so far from being true that upon Conviction he was deliver'd to the Archbishop to be degraded that he never appeared in Court after but continued under the Archbishop's care till after a while he fully reconciled him to the King notwithstanding the Jury found him guilty of Treason I desire to be informed whether we are to understand Magna Charta by such a Trial as this Whether he were judged by his Peers I know not but I am sure he was not by the Law of the Land which I think is as good a part of Magna Charta as the other And this our Historians tell us is the First Instance of any Trial of this kind of any Bishop in England which hath too much of force and violence in it to be a good Interpreter of Magna Charta The Second Precedent is verbatim out of Mr. Selden concerning Iohn de Isle and the Bishop of Ely his Brother which concerns such matters wherein himself confesses the Privilegium Clericale was allowed and the Record saith the Archbishop entering his plea that he was to be deliver'd to him as a member of his Church he was accordingly deliver'd after the Jury had given in their Verdict Which shews indeed the good will that was then used to take away even the allowed Privileges of the Clergy by common Juries And this is another stout Interpreter of Magna Charta when Bracton Briton Fleta Stat. West 1. Articuli Cleri c. 15. are confessed even by Sir Edw. Coke to be so clear in the Clergie's behalf in these matters The Third Precedent which is likewise out of the same Authour is of Thomas Merks Bishop of Carlisle who for his fidelity to R. II. and the true Heirs of the Crown against the Usurpation of H. IV. was found guilty of Treason by a common Iury. But Mr. Selden is so ingenuous as to take notice that the Writ directed to the Justices had in it a Non obstante to a Statute lately made at Westminster Licèt in Stat. apud Westm. nuper edito inter caetera continetur quòd nullus Archiep. nec Episcopus coram Iusticiariis nostris occasione alicujus criminis impetatur absque speciali praecepto nostro quousque c. Which was read in Court but the Judges urging that the Liberties of the Church did not extend to high Treason then it is said he did ponere se super Patriam just as Thomas Lord Berkely did 4 Ed. III. This is the onely Precedent that proves that a Bishop before the time of H. VIII did put himself upon a common Iury and yet we find as good a Precedent of this sort concerning an allowed Peer of the Realm And whether this single Precedent be sufficient to interpret Magna Charta against the plain sense of the words and to make a constant practice I leave any rational man to judge But if this were yielded in Cases of high Treason wherein the Privilege of Clergy holds not especially since the Statutes 25 Ed. III. c. 4. and 4 H. IV. c. 2 3. Mr. Selden tells them that there is no consequence from hence because they are not to be tried by Peers therefore they are not Peers since the Common Law may limit this Privilege of Peers in one particular case which may hold in all others As it is no diminution to the Peerage of the Temporal Lords to be tried by a common Iury at the Suit of the Party I conclude the Answer to this Argument as Mr. Camden doth his Discourse about this subject who having proved that the Bishops do enjoy all other Privileges of Peers except this of being tried by them which he seems to attribute to a kind of Revenge upon them for pleading such exemptions by the Canon-Law after all he leaves it to the Lawyers to determine whether this be juris explorati The meaning of which I am sure is not as the Authour of the Letter expresseth it that it was always so and never otherwise But the great difficulty to some is that a Praedial or Feudal Barony doth not ennoble the Bloud and therefore can give no Right of Peerage Whereas it is well known that all the Baronies of England were such from the Conquerour's time till after the Barons Wars when for Reason of State it was thought necessary to make the Nobility more dependant on the Crown And all that were Barons were Pares i. e. Peers So du Fresn quotes an old Poem of the Common Laws of England Barons nous appellons les Piers del Realm In France from whence our Baronies first came Ecclesiastical Persons with praedial Baronies are thought as capable of Peerage as any For there at first all the Barones Regni who both in France and England were the same with the Barones Regis however some of late have distinguished them sate in the great Council and all publick Affairs passed through them and they were judged by their own Order and these were called Pares Regni among whom the Bishops were comprehended At last Lewis VII A. D. 1179. as most Authours agree chose Twelve out of the great number of the Peers of France of which half the number were Bishops who held feudal Baronies of the King and the Archbishop of Rheims is the First of the whole Number And because these enjoy'd greater Privileges then other Peers their number was increased by particular Favour but the ancient