to subiect his kingdome to a forraine Realme or change the forme of the common wealth from imperie to tyrannie or neglect the Lawes established by common consent of Prince and people to execute his owne pleasure In these and other cases which might be named if the Nobles commons ioyne togither to defend their auncient accustomed libertie regiment and lawes they may not well be counted rebels Phi. You denied that euen now when I did vrge it Theo. I denied that Bishops had authoritie to prescribe conditions to kinges when they crowned theÌ„ but I neuer denied that the people might preserue yeâ—sundation freedom form of their common-wealth which they forprised when they first consented to haue a king Phi. I remember you were resolute that subiectes might not resist their Princes for any respectes and now I see you slake Theo. As I sayde then so I say now the Law of God giueth no man leaue to resist his Prince but I neuer said that kingdoms and common-wealthes might not proportion their States as they thought best by their publike lawes which afterward the princes theÌ„selues may not violate By superior powers ordained of God we vnderstaÌ„d not only princes but al politike states regimeÌ„ts somwhere the people somwhere the Nobles hauing the same interest to the sword y Princes haue in their kingdoms in kingdoms where princes beare rule by the sword we do not meane the princes priuate wil against his lawes but his precept deriued froÌ„ his lawes agreeing with his lawes which though it be wicked yet may it not be resisted of any subiect with armed violence Mary when Princes offer their subiects not iustice but force and despise all Lawes to practise their lustes not euery nor any priuate man may take the sword to redresse the Prince but if the lawes of the land appoint the nobles as next to the king to assist him in doing right withhold him from doing wrong theÌ„ be they licensed by mans law so not prohibited by Gods to interpose themselues for the safegard of equitie innocencie and by all lawfull and needefull meanes to procure the Prince to bee refourmed but in no case depriued where the scepter is inherited Phi. If I should assent to this how doth it acquite your fellowes in Germanie Flaunders France and Scotland that resist their Catholike Princes for maintenance of their heresies Theo. Not vnlesse they proue their states to be such as I speake of Phi. That they shall neuer Theo. You be deeper in policie than in diuinitie that belike fitteth your affection better and yet therein you shew but what a malicious conceit and a slipperie tongue may soone suspect and vtter It is easie for a running and rayling head to sit at home in his chamber and call all men rebelles himselfe being the rankest otherwise I see neither trueth in reporting nor sense in debating the matters that are so often in your mouth Why should the Germanes submitting themselues to the Emperour at his election but on conditioÌ„ not enioy the same liberties securities of their publik State which their fathers did before them Why should they be counted rebels for preseruing their ciuill policie more than Italians which cut them-selues vtterly from the Empire by no consent nor allowance but only by force and disturbance The like we say for the Flemmings What reason the King of Spaine should alter their State and euert their auncient Lawes his stile declaring him not to be King but Earle of Flaunders And being admitted for a protectour if hee wil needes become an oppressour why should they not defend the freedome of their countrie The Scottes what haue they doone besides the placing the right heire and her own sonne when the mother fledde and forsooke the realme Be these those furious attempts and rebellions you talke of In France the King of Nauarre and the Prince of Condey might lawfully defend themselues from iniustice and violence and be ayded by other Princes their neighbours if the King as too mightie for them sought to oppresse them to whom they owe not simple subiection but respectiue homage as Scotland did to England and Normandie vnto Fraunce when the Kings notwithstanding had bitter warres ech with other The rest of the Nobles that did assist them if it were the Kings act that did oppresse them and not the Guises except the Lawes of the land doe permit them meanes to saue the State from open tyranny I will not excuse and yet the circumstances must be fully knowen before the fact can bee rightly discerned with which I confesse I am not so exactly acquainted But graunt you could find vs where PROTESTANTS haue taken armes in some one place or other for religion their armes were defenciue not inuasiue as yours are they resisted the Popes inquisitions not the lawes of their Countries as you doe they rescued their wiues and children from horrible butcherie they depriued not Princes as you would And yet all these imparities considered if I doe not shew by your owne stories an hundreth outrages of your side for one of ours I am content to lose the cause Looke backe therefore Sir Auditor to your owne accompts and view with shame enough how many rebellions your fellowes haue made within these last fiue hundreth yeres how many Princes they haue displaced poisoned and murdered and make no such tragicall exclamations at others for sauing them selues and their innocent families from your cruell and incredible furies Phi. We put you in mind of the Protestants in other Countries because you make so much adoe for one poore commotion in England made in defence of the Catholikes in twentie six yeres of the greatest persecution and tribulation that euer was since the Gothes and the Vandals times Theophi That we had but one commotion in this realme wee may thanke God and not you you did your best by procuring inuasion abroade and ripening rebellion at home to multiplie that one to twentie six twise tolde but that the mightie hand of GOD did alwaies vnioint your deuises Neither make we not so much adoe that you did once rebell but that you still seeke to continue the same by comforting forraine powers to enter the land by disposing the heartes of all Catholikes as you call them within the realme to waite for that day by maintaining and auouching the Popes wicked claime to depose Princes for a point of Christian faith by canonising the Northerne rebels in your open writings for Martyrs by proclaiming as you doe in this booke such warres against the Prince to be Godlie iust and honorable and last of all by resoluing directing and encouraging Parry Somerfield other that with violent hands sought to attempt your soueraignes life These be the things for which we make so much adoe and which if there be but one iote of true religion or obedience in you my masters of Rhemes you would not so
that Heretikes should be put to death for onely religion as S. Augustine verie earnestly auoucheth Their sixt chapter is a maruelous profound Rhetorication that it is much to the benefite and stabilitie of Common wealthes and specially of Kinges Scepters that the differences betwixt them and their people for Religion or any other cause for which them may seeme to deserue depriuation may rather be decided by the Pope as the Iesuits would haue it and so they shall be on the surest side than by Popular mutinie and phantasie of priuate men as wee desire and practise or else they bely vs which is no wonder in such Seminists To these trifling and tedious discourses of men trusting wholie to their tongues and seeking with deintie speach and couched termes to hoodwinck Princes eyes and delight subiects eares that all the world may daunce in a string after the pope and his nourceries what other aunswer should we giue then that if there were not a God to be serued and honoured who hath committed the sword to Princes and will exact at their hands the well vsing of the same for the publike maintenance of his will and worship surely Princes should doe more safely to followe that aduise of the Iesuits For their holie father will neuer leaue practising by all the meanes hee possibly may to subuert their states and shorten their liues except they receiue his keyes and busse his shoes The warres of Ireland and dangers of England which this roming man so much bableth of as matters of State I referre to such as be Common-wealth men I will not passe the bounds of my profession the Pope may continue his olde worme-eaten claime to the Soueraigntie of Ireland which these louing subiects pleade in open writing against the Crowne of England and God no doubt hath meanes enow to visite our sinnes vnlesse it please him to be mercifull and gracious to this Realme but as we from the bottome of our harts submit our selues to his holy will and wisdome as well to tast of his chastisement whereof all his children are partakers as to enioy his blessings so let these prophane Rouers and Vaunters vnderstand that the arme of God is long enough to reach euen them and their holy father at Rome and to take from him his desired vsurpation of the kingdomes of England Scotland Fraunce and Spaine c. though he shuffle neuer so shamefully to keepe them in his obeysaunce For the matters handled this may suffice for the manner I haue not many thinges good Christian Reader to warne thee of By forme of Dialogues I thought best to lay open the whole before thine eyes as well for auoiding of tedious repetitions as for adding of perspicuitie to the pointes which I would haue knowen to the simpler sort as farre as the nature and weight of the thinges them-selues permit And being to refute no certaine text I was constrained to take this course that I might in the aduersaries person obiect not only what they had said if it were worth the hearing but I am sure what they could say that the matter might be more manifest If any thinke I fauour my selfe in opposing besides that in euery part I bring the very choice of their strongest and latest proofs as in the first and second part their Apologie in the third their Defence of Catholikes in the fourth their Rhemish Testament whether I spare to presse and persue the same to the vttermost let the Christian Reader in Gods name be my iudge It may be the aduersarie would haue often replied in hotter and larger manner but my intent was to discusse the thinges and not to holde on a brable in wordes and of that which to any purpose might bee saide I haue omitted nothing And yet somtimes though seeldom where the place so forceth I stick a little at a letter and shew howe greate a chaunge it maketh in the sense which is soone missed in the printe As where in Sainct Augustine they printe Esset I thinke it should bee Esse And so likewise in Chrysostome whose Greeke exemplar I then hadde not when I first mistrusted the Latine the worde is printed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Suffer thy selfe to bee intreated to write Which the verbes precedent consequent import should be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Suffer your selues to be intreated to write so the other parte of the sentence doth plainly conuince where hee saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and graunt vs to enioy your letters still your loue and all other things as before for is easily ouerseene and yet in the matter the difference is much though not so much that it shoulde either helpe them or hurte vs as they perhaps will imagine In these and such like corrections of words or printes I leaue the learned reader to his iudgement when he considereth the sentence and yet I see no reason why the aduersarie should builde himselfe on such suspected places In the fourth parte I haue examined the chiefe and publike actions of the Rhomish Church which are nowe reformed by the lawes of this Realme and not only refuted them as vncatholike but confirmed the Sacramentes and Seruice of the Church of England to bee consonant to the sacred Scriptures and Catholike Fathers In handling the which where their Rhemish Testament offered any shew of proofe I haue particularly refelled their authorities where they fayled I was constrained to make the Iesuite supply of his owne the best obiections that they haue Other thinges named in the beginning of my fourth parte because the volume increased and they were not so materiall partes of the Church Seruice as the former I haue reserued to bee handled by themselues in a seuerall treatie Of quotations and translations I had speciall care in my copy that they should be direct and true howsoeuer the Composers haue now and then displaced the one and in the other not distinguished my additions which I sometimes interserted to illustrate the rest with an other letter and two inclosures in my copy and this caueat I am forced to giue thee gentle Reader that whatsoeuer in alleaging is inclosed with two halfe Moones though it bee the same letter with the rest yet it is no part of that authoritie which I cite but my adiection to shewe the force of the place I produced because I could not stand beating on euerie word without extreme losse of time and labour The Lord treade downe Satan vnder our feete that the honour may bee his and the comfort ours and abolish the strength of wickednesse till his comming THE TRVE DIFFERENCE BETWEENE CHRISTIAN SVBIECTION AND VNCHRISTIAN REBELLION THE FIRST PART EXAMINETH ALL THE PROOFES AND places of the Iesuits Apologie their forsaking the Realme and running to Rome what aide the Fathers sought at Rome and how the Bishop thereof in all ages hath beene resisted the intent of his Seminaries and vertues of his Clergie THEOPHILVS the Christian. PHILANDER the Iesuite THEOPH
your selues and confute your aduersaries but onely the breath of your own mouthes Phi. Wee giue you an oth for our discharge will you not beleeue vs when wee sweare Theo. If wee do it is more of our good meaning than your wel deseruing you dispence so fast with the breach of othes Phi. You misreport vs we do not so Theo. That shal appeare in place conuenient I will not now disgresse from the matter An oth you say we haue to purge al suspition Let vs hear it Phi. The principall of the viage doth protest that he neither ioyned with rebell nor traitor nor any other against the Queene or Realme or traiterously sought or practised to irritate any Prince or potentate to hostility against the same Further inuocating vpoÌ„ his soul that he neither knew saw nor heard during his aboad in the court of Rome of any such writings as are mentioned in the proclamation of Iuly containing certaine articles of confederation of the Pope king of Spaine other Princes for the inuasion of the Realme Theo. We heare you sweare but meane you plainly Phi. Why doubt you that Theo. You teach others wheÌ„ they be called before such as you count heretiks sophisticè iurare sophisticè respoÌ„dere sophistically to swear sophistically to answere that is to mocke the Magistrate with a captious cunning oth or answere And therefore vnlesse you giue vs a preciser strickter oth than this we trust you not You did not traiterously seeke or practise to irritate any Prince or Potentate to hostilitie against the Queene or Realme What needed this addition you sought it not traiterously Your meaning may bee you sought it but lawfully Phi. What fraud you suspect where we meane simply Theo. Then for the better explication of our selues do you thinke it treason for an English man to ioyne with the Pope or any other appointed by him to inuade the Land for the restoring of Religion and execution of the sentence which Pius the fift pronouÌ„ced against her Maiestie Phi. That sentence is extrauagant Theo. Not so For if you count it no treason as we can proue the most part of you do not to obey the Pope deposing the Queene then in your own conceits may you safely sweare you did not these thinges trayterouslie though touching the factes it were certaine you did them Phi. What a compasse you fet to intrap vs Theo. What euasions you get to delude vs but how doth this cleare the rest of your side Phi. Wee bee most assured that no English Catholike woulde or coulde bee the author thereof Theo. It is much to bee sure what euerie man of your faction would or could doe you must bee gods and not men if you can doe that Phi. Wee knowe they woulde not Theo. Leaue this follie you can not search the secretes of other mens heartes nor accompt for their deedes in a matter so impossible the more vehement the more impudent Phi. It verily may bee thought and so is it certaine that some of the principall ministers of the forenamed Princes haue aâ—nswered being demaunded thereof that the Protestantes hauing exercised skill and audacitie in such practises and counterpractises of which Fraunce Flaunders Scotland and other countries haue had so lamentable experience did contriue them to alter her Maiesties accustomed benignitie and mercie towards the Catholickes Theo. It is great pitie that Papistes bee no practisers Aske England Scotland Flaunders Fraunce Spaine Italie Scicile Germanie what practises they haue found I say not in your temporall men but in the Priestes Prelates and Pillours of your Church Righter Macheuels than the Popes them-selues Christendome hath not bred mary this indeede you were alwayes better with poysons and Treasons than with papers and pamflets and yet you spared neither Scriptures Councels nor Fathers but corrupted and enterlaced them to serue your turnes As for the procurers and setters of this late confederacie to assaulte the Realme if you knowe not who they were Charles Paget and others with you can tell or if they would dissemble Throckmorton hath tolde There shall you see whether this were a meere deuise and sleight of ours or a lewde intente and practise of yours These bee the chiefe pointes of your seconde Chapter the rest is lippe-labour and noe waye concerneth your cause Phi. Yes wee prooue it lawfull for men in our case to flie to the Bishoppe of Rome for reliefe either of bodie or soule Theo. Wee bee sure you will saie it with boldnesse enough but will you prooue it Phi. Wee will prooue it Theo. Howe Phi. Whither should wee rather flie than to the head or as Sainct Hierom speaketh to the most secure part of our Catholike communion to the rocke of refuge in doubtfull dayes and doctrines to the chiefe Pastour and Bishoppe of our soules in earth to the Vicar generall of Christ out of the compasse of whose fold and familie no banishment can bring vs to him that by office and vnction had receiued the grace of loue pitie and compassion to him that counteth no Christian nor domesticall of faith a stranger to him whose Citie and Seat is the natiue home of all true beleeuers and the paterne of all Bishoply hospitalitie and benignitie Theo. Whither nowe Maisters are you well aduised Phi. Why not Theo. You presume that to be most true which is most in question betwixt vs and as if your vnshamefast flatteries were sounde and substantiall verities you conclude without prouing the precedents or respecting the consequent For first what witnesse bring you that the Pope is as you say the head the rocke of refuge in doutful daies doctrines the chiefe Pastor and Bishop of your souls in earth the Vicar generall of Christ or that his seat is the natiue home of all true beleeuers and the whole Church his folde and familie What auncient Father or Councell euer liked or suffered these proude and false titles Why proue you not that which you speake Or why speake you that which you can not proue In so weightie matters do you thinke it enough to saie the worde and by and by wee must hush Phi. Wee haue else-where brought you so manie demonstrations for these thinges that nowe wee take them to bee cleare Theo. Omit these vauntes we aske for proofes and till you bring them by your owne rule we neede frame you no farther answere Phi. Make you merrie with that aduantage but yet Sainct Hierom is not so shifted Theo. His name you set in the forefront to lead on the rable of your vnsauorie speeches but the wordes of Sainct Hierom doe little releeue you For let it be that Athanasius and after him Peter Bishops of Alexandria declining the persecution of the Arian heresie fled to Rome as to the safest port of their communion because Rome was then free from the tumults of Arians so long as Constans liued and readie to receiue such as suffered affliction for
blood and bowels against them And therefore no maruaile if king Henrie relented somewhat of his former stoutnesse when the king of Fraunce the Earle of Flaunders the king of Scots the yong king his sonne and two other of his children the Duke of Aquitane and Earle of Britaine cōspired against him but it is euident that frō the conquest till the time these lawes and liberties stood in their full force and were publikely receiued and vsed in this Realme Phi. Did the Pope procure him these enemies Theo. What packing there was betweene the French king and the Pope though the stories in this place do not confesse yet we may soone coniecture by the generall drift of your holy Father his blessed adherents in those daies specially by the exāple of king Iohn the sonne of the said king Henrie whom for refusing the disordered election of Stephen Langton to the church of Canterbury Innocentius the 3. so terrified with open inuasion of enemies secret defection of subiects that for safegard of himselfe he was driuen to resigne his kingdome take it againe at the Popes hands in fee farme vnder the yearly rent of a thowsand marks binding himself his heires for euer to do the like homage fealtie to the Bishops of Rome for the crowne of England Which shamefull seruitude of the Prince vtter ruine of the Realme so much displeased the barōs bishops that before toke the Popes part against the king that in plaine contempt of the Popes keies curses they chose them an other king chased king Iohn the Popes farmour from place to place in despite of al y his new Landlord could do or deuise But this I omit because the quarel touched the right title to the crown I medle only with those resistances which the kings of England made for men and matters ecclesiastical Phi. I trust they were not many Theo. For the first hundred yeares next the cōquest it is clear the kings of this Realm would neuer allow their subiects to run to Rome nor suffer appeals to be made to the Pope without their expresse consent now shall you see what they which came after did When king Edw. the 3. reuiued the statute of Premunire made by king Edw. the 1. in the 35. year of his raign against such as sought to Rome to prouide thē of benefices other ecclesiastical promotions wtin this realm enacting the same penalty for those that by processe frō thence impugned any iudgement giuen in the kings courts or brought from Rome any Bul writing or instrumēt to those other like effects Gregory the 11. then Bishop of Rome vnderstanding therof was very earnest against it protesting this was nothing else but to make a schism in the church of Christ to abolish religion to subuert right reason infringe al coūcels speedily dealt with king Edw. to abrogate this law A schisme rising not long after in the church of Rome there was not a Pope that had any care of this til at lēgth Martin the 5. wrote more vehemēt letters to K. H. the 6. But these two bishops of Rome receiued one the same answer which was that an act of Parliament could not be repealed without the autority of a Parliamēt that shortly one should be called to that end which neuer after was performed Yea the king that came after did not only cause that law to be kept put in vre but increased the terror of it with a rigorous punishmēt which is that the party so offending shal forfeit his goods himself be condemned to perpetual imprisonmēt This writer an Italian born a man wedded to the See of Rome confesseth the Popes authority was abated restrained by the lawes of this Realm in the time of king Edward the 3. and so continued euer after that not only the Popes letters were twise refused but the sharpnesse of the punishment increased to strengthen the Statute that pared their power and limited his iurisdiction within this Realme Phi. Perhaps they wtstood him for tēporal matters Theo. The matters were such as your own church accoūteth spiritual to wit electiōs of Bishops gifts of benefices procedings in other causes tending as the cōmplaint of Gregory teacheth you to the diuision of the church extirpation of religion subuersion of al councels which you may not thinke to be temporall matters And this resistance which the Bishop of Rome so much repined at in the daies of king Edward the 3. neuer ceased till king Henry the 8. of famous memory banished the Popes vsurped power cleane out of this Land Phi. So did none of his progenitors before him Theo. It may be they wēt not so far as he did but as Polydor writeth R. Rich. the 2. wēt fairly towards it In a Parliament held the 14. yeare of his raigne the king his princes were of opinion that it would be very good for the realme of England if some part of the Popes dominion were determined with the Sea that is excluded out of this lād for that many wer daily vexed for causes which they thought could not so easily be ended at Rome Wherefore they made a law that no mā euer after should deal with the Bishops of Rome that any person in Englād should by his autority for any cause be excōmunicated that none should execute any such precept if it were sent him If any mā brake this law the pain apointed was he should lose al he had ly in prison during his life And where the pope trauailed by al means to ouerthrow the statute of prouisiō premunire the parliamēt held in the 13. year of Rich. the 2. for the better establishing surer executing of the law made it death for any mā to bring or send Bul or other proces frō Rome to impugn the same These be the words Itē it is ordained established that if any mā bring or send within this realm or the kings power any sūmōs sentēce or excōmunicatiō against any persō of what cōditiō that he be for the cause of making motiō assent or executiō of the said statute of Prouisors or premunire he shal be takē arested put in prison forfeit al his lands tenements goods catle for euer moreouer incur the pain of life mēber So the kingdoms cōmonwelths as wel as councels of al others Frāce England haue from time to time resisted your holy father in the midst of his terror tyrany P. You shew they did it but you do not shew they did wel in it Th. I need not you must shew they did il The prince by gods ordināce beareth the sword not the pope therfore the presumption lieth for the prince against the pope til you proue the cōtrary besids if bishops in a synod may lawfully resist him why may not princes in their parliamēts
pleasure wisedome to vtter of himselfe nor any hauing iust cause to deeme worse or otherwise of his doings than is agreeable to his high calling approued good affection to our Country his great vertue and the euidence of the thing Theo. In trueth we seeke for your founders intentions not for yours and therefore this onely sentence in all your third chapter maketh toward the matter in question which you conclude with an ignoramus protesting his holines intentions to be vnknowen to you Phi. Uerily so are they Theo. You may winke at noone dayes say you see nothing yet this you know that subiects should not leaue their prince vpon euery dislike and flee the Country much lesse linke and ioyne themselues with the Princes foes least of all take the crowne from the Princes head at the Popes becke His secretes though you search not these doings you may soone discerne Phi. We be farre from any such dealings Theo. As farre as water from the Tems Do none flee the realme to come to your Seminaries Phi. They may flee that be persecuted Theo. Doth the prince persecute children in Grammer schooles Phi. That in cōscience were too much Theo. Yet you confesse Grammer scholers from al parts of the realme haue yeelded you many youthes many gentlemens sonnes specially aduenture ouer to you without their parents consent and sometimes much against their wils And think you this lawful to entice children from their parents subiects frō their Prince to be infected by you before they can iudge of you Phi. We do not entice them to come but instruct them when they come Theo. Remember you not your third purpose was to draw into these Colleges the best wittes out of England So that your owne wordes conuince you to be drawers which is all one with enticers of boyes from their schooles of childrē from their parents and this I winne you can hardly defend to be Catholike Besides your purpose was to draw for this is your terme those that were desirous of exact education or had scruple of conscience to take the oth of the Queenes supremacie or that misliked to be forced to the ministerie or that were doubtful whether of the two religions were true So that your Seminaries be not only receits for such as be lightly touched by the lawes of this Realme but harbours for all that bee desirous scrupulous dislykers or doubters that is in effect baits for all mens appetites marts for all mens purposes that be any way greeued with the State or affect nouelties Next that you be fedde and clothed at the Popes expences and in such thraldome to the Popes agent your superiour as you call him that you will and must accept his voice as a warrant from heauen and an oracle of Christ since you proclaime it we need not proue it And this is to be right of the Popes fold and familie whose hatred and hostilitie to the Prince and this Realme how deadly and daily it hath been and is England Ireland yea Rome it selfe can witnes and if you would dissemble neuer so deeply you neither are nor can be ignorant Lastly what you thinke and teach of her Maiesties right to the Crowne since Pius the fift gaue foorth his Bull to depriue her of the same if Sanders monarchie Bristoes motiues Campions Parsons dispensation did not fully conuince the answere of your fellowes vpon their examinacions at their araignements your refusal to speake when you be required and ambiguous maner of speaking when you be therto pressed do plainely shew you that you thinke that which you dare not vtter teach more than you would haue known Or if that which is past be not proofe enough for your better discharge let vs haue your answere at this present Is her Maistie right and lawfull Queene of this Realme notwithstanding the Pope did or doe depose her Phi. You now digresse from our purpose Theo. Then belike obedience to the magistrate doth not stand with your purpose Phi. Your question is very dangerous Theo. No danger at all if you be good subiects Phi. As good subiects as you for your liues Theo. And as Bristowe saith better saue that crakes be common with Iesuites But this is a shrewd signe of an ill subiect to refuse to confesse your rightfull Prince Phi. Wee be not Iudges betweene the Pope and the Queene Theo. So said Campion at the kings bench but til you make vs some directer answere geue vs leaue to take your seminaries if not for schooles of treason yet at least for nourceries of disobedience Your opinion in this point if it be good why doe you not confesse it If it be nought why doe you not reuoke it Your Apologie should haue either defied it as no part of your meaning or els defended it as honest and lawfull You doe neither in this place but flattering the Pope you beleeue it and fearing the Prince you conceale it And least your dissembling should be suspected you fill this chapter with needlesse vagaries from your selues to your aduersaries from doctrine to manners from Englande to Scotland auouching what you list defaming whom you can presuming al that you dreame to be true without care without cause without shame without sense Phi. You raile Theophilus Theo. And what doe you Philander when you say The fruites of the Protestants doctrine their prophane life and manners their restlesse contentions debates and dissentions among themselues their scandals mo in those fewe dayes of their felicitie than was giuen of the true Clergie in a thousand yeres before though al the aduersaries slaunderous reports of them were Gospel as many of them bee more false than Esops Fables And againe of Scotland you say The Caluinists horrible infamous murdering of his highnesse father and more than barbarous vilany and misuse of his deerest mother whiles shee was among them the sundry detestable treasons cōtriued against his Roial person when he was yet in his mothers womb as oftē since as wel otherwise by wonted treacheries as by infecting his tender age both with their damnable heresie and with ill affection towards his deerest parents What cal you this if it bee not railing What libell could be more lewde and infamous than this Happie men are you that may thus disdaine reproch belie and reuile others and not be counted railers Touching our liues we will say litle we referre the iudgement therof to such as be sober neither doe we denie but that among so great a number as this realm yeeldeth it is easie to finde some that serue not God but their bellies and seeke not Christ but theire owne And yet I see no cause why you should ouerlash so much in excusing your selues and accusing others as if our scandals so it pleaseth you to speake were mo in these fewe daies than yours in a thousand yeres before For if those things be true which not our fauorers but
but by deiecting and disgracing those that vtterly refused him as lewd light persons And this maketh you so falsly without al truth so boldly without al shame so desperately without all feare to belie both England Scotland as if our disorders in twentie yeres were mo than yours in a thousand and the treacheries treasons murders vilanies done in Scotland were the protestants doings which virulent impudent reproches vttered against two Christian Common weales without any maner or colour of truth shew what liquor boyleth in your hearts and what humour raigneth in your heades Phi. And what salt seasoneth your mouth when you raile at Rome so fast as you do Theo. If I report any thing of Rome which your own fellowes doe not witnes let it go for a slander but what proofe bring you that in Scotlande the professors of the Gospell murdered the kinges father or sought to destroy their Prince when he was yet in his mothers wombe Phi. Sure it is the kings father was horribly murdered amongst them Theo. Can you tel by whom Phi. I can not tel but he lost his life Theo. No doubt of that but who did the deed Phi. It was secretly done in the night season we know not by whom of likelyhood by enemies Theo. It could be no friendship to murder him in his bed neuer heard you A mans enemies shal be they of his owne houshold But since you know not the doer is it not mere malice in you to charge your enemies and not his with it especially those that did hazard their liues to reuenge his death Phi. A faire reuenge to displace their Queene for other mens faults Theo. If y◠Nobles of Scotland did any thing against their Queen which the lawes of that land did not warrant wee defend them not you were best obiect it to them they can answere for themselues Yet are you not ignorāt whom they deepely charge with the death of that Earle but I wil not meddle with other mens matters I returne to this land where you say you haue wrought great alteration of mindes throughout the whole Realme wonderfull increase of courage in all sortes not only to thinke well in heart but openly and boldly to prosesse their faith and religion and refuse all actes contrarie to the same Phi. And this haue we done only by the power of priesthood in spiritual silent and peaceable maner not with riots tumults or warlike concourse we haue done it as the Apostles other holy mē did in the primatiue church by trauels watchings fastings perils at the Portes perils in the Sea perils on the Land perils of open enemies perils of false brethrē feares of the laws feares of hurting our frinds feares for scandalising the weake by contumelies disgraces pouerties prisonmēts fetters dungeons racks deaths And this the omnipotent God because it is his owne worke enterprised by order and authoritie of his chiefe Minister in earth hath prospered exceedingly though it seemed at the beginning a thing hard or impossible you hauing so many yeres the lawes the sword the pulpits and al humane helps for you Theo. Neuer vaunt of your victories vnlesse they were greater Papists that before dissembled are now by your meanes encouraged to professe your religion against a day this was no such conquest The priuie report of a forraine power to be landed in this realme was enough to turne them al. For they which twentie yeres together perished their cōsciences to saue their goods would they now rather hazard their lands life which you threatned hinder that action which they long desired than shew themselues The rest of your conuerts be fearefull women hungrie craftesmen idle prentices seelie wenches and peeuish boyes for the most part voyd of all reason sense desirous of nouelties by nature and soone enticed to any thing al the religion you haue taught them is to name the catholik church as parats to pretend their cōsciēces when they lacke al vnderstāding of god godlines Such in some places for want of good order haue bin of late inueigled by you to mislike those with whō they liue to fansie that they neuer saw which was no masterie cōsidering the mildenes of our discipline the maner of your whispering the rudenes of those simple soules whom you peruerted Phi. We did nothing but in spiritual silent peaceable maner as the Apostles other holy men did in the primatiue Church Theo. We know you can cōmend your selues but a man may soone discerne the fierbrands of Rome from the disciples of Christ. Throckmortōs kalēder was the chiefest end of your running ouer which was to soūd whether your pretēded catholiks wold not back any such force as should be sent to inuade the land This no Apostle nor any other holy man in the primatiue Church did they neuer made religion a cloake for rebellion Phi. God is our witnes we knew no such thing when we were sent ouer Theo. But they which sent you knew what they did Phi. That was counsell to vs we are bound to obey our superiour that sent vs. Theo. To rebell against your Prince and to procure others to doe the like if the Pope commaund you Phi. We say not so Theo. But you must doe so Phi. Can you proue that Theo. We neede no plainer proofe than your silence For how say you will you take her maiestie for lawful and rightful Queene of this Realme notwithstanding the Pope depriue her Phi. You still aske mee that question Theo. Wee must still aske it till you answere it One woorde of your mouth woulde suffice vs and discharge you from all suspition which you would neuer refraine if it were not against you Phi. Remoue the daunger of your lawes and I will quickly tell you what I think Theo. That speach is enough to bewray your affection Our Lawes be not dangerous vnlesse you say the Pope may take the crowne from the Princes head licence her subiects to rebell against her which is the treason we charge you with Phi. Is that so trayterous a position that Popes may depose Princes Theo. That point you should either freely defend or flatly deny By that we shall see what the bent and drift was of your late perswading reconciling so many to the Church of Rome For if this be your doctrine that such as wil be Catholikes must obey the Pope deposing the prince then is it euident that you sow religion but intend to reape treason and make your first entrance with preaching that afterward you may prepare the people to rebelling Phi. This is your false surmise not our meaning Theo. Then answere mee What if the Pope publish a Bull to depriue the Queene which part will you teach the people to followe The Popes or the Queenes Phi. We will tell you that when the Pope doth attempt it Theo. Wel sayde Philander you play sure to
to be subiect or free from the kinges power The people likewise tooke Ieremy when hee had prophesied against them and said thou shalt die the death These places haue perswaded some and might leade Zuinglius to think that the people of Israell notwithstanding they called for a king yet reserued to themselues sufficient authority to ouerrule their king in those thinges which seemed expedient needfull for the publike welfare else God would not punish the people for the kings impietie which they must suffer might not redresse But yet in the 15. of Ieremie there is no such cause pretended their consent rather and zeale to please Manasses in his wickednesse their generall shrinking back from truth so lately professed vnder Ezechias for feare of his cruelty that did next succeede were the causes why God would punish both the king and the Realme For God neuer required of the people to displace their Prince that we can reade but onely that they should rather yeeld their liues than forsake his truth when any tyrant offered to deface his glory Phi. By Zuinglius decision the people may depose the Prince Theo. Zuinglius doth shew the causes for which magistrats may be iustly deplaced by those that haue authoritie to doe it but hee giueth no priuate man leaue to take the sword or offer violence to any Prince though he be a tyrant againe he speaketh of Rulers elected and limited not succeeding and absolute In which ease by the Lawes of sundrie Realmes much is permitted which otherwise may not bee presumed Phi. Nay hee speaketh of all sortes of Princes whether they bee made by succession election or vsurpation Theo. In that Article hee mentioneth them but hee neither resolueth any certainetie of them or alloweth any force to bee vsed against them Of hereditarie succession these be his wordes Mihi ergo compertum non est vnde hoc sit vt regna per successiones quasi per manus posteris tradantur I confesse I haue no skill in this how kingdomes should be deriued to posterity by succession as it were by haÌ„d If then a tyrant chosen by no man get a kingdom by inheritance which hath his foundation I know not how ferre hunc oportet sed quomodo imperitabit he must be indured but how shall he gouern His answere is Regnum aliquo sapiente administranduÌ„ erit the kingdom must be gouerned by some wise maÌ„ that shal assist him If a tyrant succeeding may not be repelled from his inheritance but suffered and assâ—sted then by this confession may he not be deposed And that no violence may be vsed to any Prince promoted by succession or election his words are plaine Disputing quo pacto mouendus sit officio by what means a magistrat may be displaced he saith Non est vt eum trucides nec vt belluÌ„ tumultis quis exitet quia in pace vocauit nos Deus Thou maist not kil him nor leauie warre or any tumult against him because God hath called vs in peace Phi. How then shal he be displaced since no Prince will yeeld his crown without force Theo. He answereth hic iam labor est this is the difficulty but his coÌ„ceit is that they which chose him should denouÌ„ce him vnfit to weare the crown if he yeeld it is wel if not they must offer their liues in so good a cause as to dy for iustice truth Phi. In faith that were folly first to prouoke a tyraÌ„t with depriuatioÌ„ after to lay down their necks to his furie The. Yet that is his resolution for he addeth Qui hoc ferre noÌ„ possunt ferant insolenteÌ„ tyrannuÌ„ They that caÌ„ not abide to die for the defence of iustice let theÌ„ tolerate the pride of the tyraÌ„t Phi. Are you of that minde Theo. You are not to seeke after al our reasoning what I thinke I haue meetely well repeated it And as for Zuinglius though he measure all Nations by the Germanes proportion other kingdomes to the Empire in that respect speake somwhat strangely yet he iustifieth no tumult against a tyrant much lesse rebellion against lawfull and absolute Princes which is the case at this instant in question betwixt vs. That touching rebellion now for succession as I muse at his wordes so I like not his iudgement when he saith he can not tell whence it is that kingdoms should go by successioÌ„ The Romane Empire it self from Constantine the great and before till the time of Otho the third that is 700. yeares and vpward went by successioÌ„ saue where the right lines failed or seditioÌ„ disturbed the heire The greatest kingdomes of the West partes as Fraunce England Spaine Scotland and others haue alwayes gone by succession since they were diuided from the Empire and neuer by election The like I might say almost of all prophane kingdoms and Monarchies where not election but successioÌ„ hath preuailed But omit them God him selfe gaue this to Dauid as a great blessing of the fruit of thy body will I set vpon thy throne this was it which was denied to Saull for reuenge of his disobedience Thou hast done foolishly for the Lord had now established thy kingdom vpon Israel for euer All the recompence which Iehu had for his zealous seruice was this Because thou hast deligently executed that which was right in mine eies therefore shall thy sonnes vnto the fourth generation sit on the throne of Israell So that succession in kingdoms hath not only the consent of al ages Nations but the manifest subscription of God himself that it is his speciall fauor blessing to continue the successions of godly Princes Phi. And what our english Protestantes write or thinke of this matter you shal well perceiue by their opinion and high approbation of Wiats rebellion in Queene Maries dayes wherof one of your chiefe Ministers called GoodmaÌ„ thus speaketh in his treatise intituled How superiour Magistrates ought to be obeyed Wiat did but his duty and it was the duty of all others that professe the Gospell to haue risen with him maintenance of the same His cause was iust and they all were traytours that tooke not part with him O noble Wyat thou art nowe with God and those worthy men that died for that happie interprise Theo. It is much that you measure the whole Realme by one mans mouth and more that you drawe the wordes which he spake from the meaning which he had to warrant your rebellions The partie which you name at the time wheÌ„ he wrote tooke Queene Mary for no lawful Prince which particular and false supposal beguiled him made him thinke the better of Wyats war but our question is of lawful Princes not of violent intruders And therefore Goodmans opinion which himselfe hath long since disliked is no way seruice-able for your seditions Ph. Hold you Queene Mary for an intruder Theo. Not I but he
he giueth vs cause enough to resist him with good conscience The matter standing as it doth we may resist as may be shewed both by sacred and profane stories Vniust violence is not Gods ordināce neither are we bound to him by any other reason than if he keep the conditions on which he was created Emperour The same defence was alleaged not by the ministers but by the magistrats of Magdeburg So our religiō liberty left vs by our forefathers may be permitted we refuse no kind of duty that ought to be yelded to Caesar or the empire Now by the lawes thēselues it is prouided that the inferior Magistrate shall not infringe the right of the superior so likewise if the magistrate exceed the limittes of his power cōmmaund that which is wicked not onely wee neede not obey him but if he offer force wee may resist him I aske not what fault you can find with their answere but what propinquity or neernes hath your fact to theirs They were magistrates and bare the sword in their own dominions you are priuat men wāt lawful autority to vse the sword Their states be free may resist any wrōg by the lawes of the Empire you be subiects simply bound by the lawes of your coūtry to obey the prince or abide the pain which the publike state of this realm hath prefixed The germane Emperor is elected his power abated by the liberties prerogatiues of his princes that ow not many seruices those cōdicional The Queene of England inheriteth hath one the same right ouer all her subiects be they Nobles or others And that which is most to be detested in you they hauing so good warrāt for their interprise did but ioin togither to saue thēselues their coūtries from seruitude subuersion you hauing nor one of those reasōs to iustify your doings take arms to pul the prince frō her throne to shorten her dayes with violence Phi. We haue better reason for our doings than the Germans had for theirs We haue the lawes of holy church the iudgemēt of Christs vicar to bear vs out Theo. The church of christ hath not to do with deliuering or drawing the tēporal sword She cānot make lawes for princes crowns neither cā she licence priuate men to stād in armes against a Magistrat much lesse cā the Pope whose presumptuus proud medling with the swords scepters of earthly princes no law gods nor mans but of his own making did euer alow If this be al the warrant you haue for bearing arms against your prince the Germans for ought y◠I see may be commēded for retaining their liberty you not excused for impugning autority Phi. The Protestantes of al sects do both hold practise it England it selfe specially alowing of the same And therfore there is no treason in this case if we folow the present diuinity of Englād nor new exāple if we respect the furious attēpts rebelliōs of Scotland Flāders Frāce Germany against their superiors for maintenāce of their heresie al wel alowed by the ministery of euery prouince And vpō these exāples you shold look my masters of Englād whē you make so much adoe for one poore cōmotion made in defence of the catholiks in 26. yeares space of the greatest persecution tribulatiō that euer was since Gothes Vādals times Where if the Q. had holden her ancestors faith had ruled ouer so many protestāts but a quarter of the time afflicting thē as she hath done catholiks though perhaps not her selfe so much as her vnmerciful Ministers her Maiestie should haue seene other maner of attempts against her state and quietnesse than haue fallen by Catholikes either in England or Ireland in this her raigne Theo. A boulde face a bitter tongue bee your best obiections throughout your booke The Protestants you say of al sects do both hold practise it England it selfe specially allowing of the same How loud a ly the first is we haue already seen now to the rest The tumults of any subiects against their soueraignes as we do not alow so may we not cōdemn the poore afflicted christians our neighbors before we heare them what they can say for their defence Admit thē to their answere then if their attempts be like yours or themselues of the same minde that you are we reiect their doings as hateful before God man no lesse than yours Your Spanish inquisitions French massacres where you murdered men women children by 1000. 10000. against the very grounds of al equity piety charity humanity without cōuicting accusing or so much as calling them before any iudge to heare what was misliked in them are able to set graue men good men at their wits ends to make them iustly dout since you refuse the course of all diuine humane lawes with them whether by the law of nature they may not defend themselues against such barbarous bloodsuckers yet we stand not on that if the lawes of the land where they conuerse do not permit thē to gard their liues when they are assaulted with vniust force against law or if they take arms as you do to depose princes we wil neuer excuse thē frō rebelliō Phi. Then they may resist but we may not Theo. Your liues are not hunted after for religiō as theirs be nothing is attēpted against you wtout due course and triall of law towardes them no law is obserued no punishment is laide on you but by the full consent of the Nobles and Commons of this realme that openly decreed in Parliament The Friers presume to put them to death vpon his sole authority that hath naught to doe with other mens subiectes you meane to depriue Princes they seeke no farther but to defende themselues not denying to their princes any tribute subiectiō or honor which the lawes of their Countrie require onely they will not haue the Pope ouerrule Princes as his maner is and tease them on to all kinde of tyrannyes These bee differences enough betweene your warres and theirs and yet for my part I must confesse that except the lawes of those Realmes doe permit the people to stand on their right if the Prince would offer that wrong I dare not allow their armes Phi. What their Lawes permit I know not I am sure in the meane time they resist Theo. And wee because wee doe not exactly know what their Lawes permit see no reason to condemne their doinges without hearing their answere Phi. Thinke you their Lawes permit them to rebell Theo. I busie not my selfe in other mens common-wealthes as you doe neither will I rashly pronounce all that resist to bee rebels cases may fall out euen in christian kingdoms where the people may plead their right against the Prince and not bee charged with rebellion Phi. As when for example Theo. If a Prince shoulde goe about
the bosome of the Catholike Church as you terme it to obay their Prince against the censures of your Church Phi. I haue hast in my way Theophilus and I haue said as much as I wil at this time Theo. I can hold you Philander no longer than you liâ—t but yet remember this as you ride by the way which I reiterate because both your Seminaries shall think the better of it that as many as you reconcile so long as you teach this for a point of faith that the Pope may depose Princes and must bee obayed in those his censures of all that will be Catholikes so many both heretikes against God and traytors against the Prince you hatch vnder the hoode of religion and also that the thinges now reformed in the Church of England are both catholik and christian notwithstanding your fierce bragges and fiery wordes lately sent vs in your RHEMISH Testament To the KING euerlasting immortall inuisible vnto GOD which is only wise be honour and praise for euer and euer Amen The speciall contents of euery part The contents of thâ— first part The Iesuits pretenders of obedience Pag. 2 The causes why they fledde the Realme 5 The proofes and places of their Apologie 7 Forcing to Religion 16 Two Religions in one Realm 21 Toleraunce of error 26 Toleraunce of error in priuate places and persons 27 Compulsion to seruice and Sacraments 29 Exacting the oth 30 Their running to Rome 35 This Lande receiuing the faith from Rome 40 Preachers sent from Rome with the Kings consent 41 Preachers not conspirators froÌ„ Rome 41 Howe the Fathers soughte to Rome 42.48 Athanasius at Rome 44 Chrysostomes request to Innocentius 51 A forged Bull against Arcadius 53. Chrysostomes banishment 55 How Saint Augustine sought to Rome 56 How S. Basil sought to Rome 58 S. Ieroms letters to Damasus 60 The Rocke on the which the Church is built 62 S. Cyprian lately corrupted 65 Gratian suspected 66 Peters person laide in the foundation of the Church 67 Theodoret and Leo. 67 The Bishop of Rome resisted 68 Paul resisted Peter 69 Polycarpus resisted Anicetus 70 Polycarpus resisted Victor 70 Cyprian resisted Stephanus 71 Flauianus withstoode foure Bishops of Rome 72 Cyrillus withstoode the Bishop of Rome 72 Councels resisting the Byshop Rome 73 The Councell of Africa resisted the Byshop of Rome 74 Forged Decretals 76 The councel of Ephesus threatning the Legates of Rome 78 The Councell of Chalcedon against the Bishop of Rome 79 The Councell of Constantinople against the Bishoppe of Rome 81 CorruptioÌ„s in the CanoÌ„ lawe 81 The Brytons resisting the Bishop of Rome 82 The Grecians detesting him 83 The Germans deposing him 84 His owne Councels depose him 85. Fraunce resisting the Pope 92 Paris appealeth from him 94 The french King resisting the Pope 95 The Kinges of England against the Pope 97 Our resistaunce more lawefull than theirs 104 Peters dignitie not imparted to the Pope 104 S. Ieroms praise of Rome 105 The manners of Rome since his time 105 The manners of Rome in his time 106 S. Cyprian forced to make for Rome 106 S. Augustine forced to make for Rome 107 From Peters seate is from Peters time 107 The intent of the Seminaries 108. High experiments of Popes 112 High experiments of the Popes clergie 114 The Iesuits slaunder England and Scotland 118 What the Iesuits worke teach in this land 119 The Pope succeedeth his Auncestors neither in seate nor beliefe 12â— The contents of the second part The Princes power to COMMAVND for trueth 124 Princes be gouernours of countries Byshops be not 127 Byshops by Gods lawes subiect to Princes as well as others 128. The Prince by Gods law charged with Religion 129 Princes may commaund for religion 133 Constantine commaunding for Religion 134 Constantius commaunding Bishops in causes ecclesiastical 135. Iustinian commanding for causes Ecclesiasticall 137 Charles commanding for causes Ecclesiasticall 139 The lawes of Charles for causes Ecclesiasticall 140 Ludoâ—ikes lawes for causes Ecclesiasticall 144 Ludouikes lawes visitors 144 What is ment by SVPREME 146. Supreme is subiect to none on earth 146 Princes subiect onely to God 147. Princes not subiect to the Pope 147. The Pope subiect to his Prince 148. Constantine superiour to the Pope in causes ecclesiastical 150 Emperours superiour to the pope in causes Ecclesiasticall 152 The Prince superiour to the Pope 160 Ieremies words expounded 160 How Prophets may plant and roote out kingdoms 161 Howe Kinges must serue the Church 162 How Byshops are to be obeied 164 How the Church is superiâ—ur to Princes 167 What is ment by the Church 168. The Prince not aboue the Church 171 Princes haue power ouer the persons of the Church 172 The woordes of S. Ambrose to Valentinian 173 The behauiour of S. Ambrose towards Valentinian 174 Valentinian refused to be iudge betweene Byshops 177 Valentinians fault 178 Theodosius searched and established the trueth 178 Princes decreeing for truth 179 Athanasius Osius Leontius 179 Athanasius reproued Constantius 180 Athanasius expounded 181 Why Constantius was reproued 182 Osius words examined 188 Leontius discussed 189 What Hilarie misliked in Constantius 190 Kings commended in the scriptures for medling with religion 191 Moses â—oshuaes example 192 King Dauids care for religioÌ„ 193 Princes charged with the whole law of God 194 Asa Iehosaphat Ezekiah perfourmed that charge 193 Manasses Idolatry repeÌ„tance 196 Iosiah reformed religion 197 Nehemiah correcteth the high Priests doings 197 Princes medled with religioÌ„ 198 Princes vsed to commaund for religion 198 God commaÌ„deth by their harts 199. Princes commanding for Religion 200 Princes haue ful power to command for trueth 202 Princes may prohibite and punish error 203 To commaund for causes Ecclesiasticall was vsuall with Princes 204 To commaund Bishops for causes Ecclesiasticall was vsuall with auntient Princes 206 The Iesuites purposely mistake the Princes supremacie 213 The Iesuits cauelling absurdities against the Popes power 221 This land oweth no subiection to tribunals abroade 228 This lande not subiect to the Popes tribunall 229 What subiection the Pope requireth 231 The Pope maketh it sacrilege blasphemie to doubt of his tribunall 231 A right Rhomish subiection 232 Patriarks of the west 233 Patriarks subiect to Princes 234 This Realme not in the Popes Prouince 135 The Patriarkeâ—dome dissolued 235 The words of the oth examined 236 It is easie to plaie with wordes 237 Princes gouerne with the sword Bishops do not 238 Princes only beare the sword in all spirituall things causes 238. Princes supreme bearers of the sword 240 Supreme gouernour displaceth not Christ. 241 Princes may not commaunde against the faith or Canons 242. Gregorie shamefully corrupted 243. Spirituall men aâ— matters 244. Carnall things called spirituall 245 Carnall thinges made spirituall to increase the Popes power and gaine 245 Carnall things made spirituall 246 Princes charged with spirituall things 247 Princes chiefely charged with things truly spirituall 247 Princes charged at Gods hands with things spirituall not