Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	high_a	lord_n	steward_n	3,887	5	11.1026	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A44187	A letter of a gentleman to his friend, shewing that the bishops are not to be judges in Parliament in cases capital	Holles, Denzil Holles, Baron, 1599-1680.	1679 (1679)	Wing H2461; ESTC R204379	41,325	145

that he was ill spoken of and defamed to the close of all the Judgment given by the King by the mouth of the Chancellour for his banishment in regard he had not put himself upon his Peerage which yet the Chancellour said the King did not do as his Judge for that he was not in the place of Judgment And it was an odd thing and unusual that some Prelates and some Lords should be sent down to the House of Commons to receive the Articles of this Impeachment All this was such a Hodge-podge of a Trial as no man can tell what to make of it nor can it be of any signification to be a president and a rule of proceeding in matters of that nature in Parliament But admit it had been never so regular it is but one single president of Bishops and Prelates acting in a Judicial capacity in a Capital cause in Parliament against multitudes excluding them it was once so and never but once And can that be thought sufficient to alter and change the constant course and practice of Parliaments which hath been otherwise Had it been questioned then and upon a debate and mature consideration been so resolved at that time this had signified something but it was done and no exception taken which they call a passing Sub silentio and more it was never done but once But Sir Edward Coke goes further and saith that two or three presidents are nothing if forty be contrary and it is so here he tells you too when it is that they signifie nothing that is Quand les Presidents passe sans challenge del partie ou debate des Iustices When they be not challenged by the party concerned or not considered of and debated by the Iudges as neither of them was here done it is in Slades case in the 4. Reports It is a rule in Law A facto ad jus non valet argumentum but it may withal be said and truly A saepe facto ad jus contra semel factum valet argumentum Upon the whole matter one may boldly affirm that this President of 28 H. 6. is no ground for the Bishops to build their claim upon of having a right to sit and vote in Parliament in Capital Causes 31 H. 6. is the Earl of Devonshire's Case the Record runs thus Be hit remembred that where the 14. day of March the said 31 year of this present Parliament Thomas Earl of Devonshire upon an Indictment of High Treason by him supposed to be done against the Kings honourable estate and person afore Humfrey Duke of Bucks Steward of England for that time assigned and of the same Treason by his Peers the noble Lords of this Royaume of England being in this said present Parliament was acquitted of all things contained in the same Indictment Now I suppose no man will say That the Bishops were either his Peers or Lords of the Realm 38 H. 6. The Lord Stanley was accused by the Commons for being in confederacy with the Duke of York and they desire he may be committed to prison the Answer is The King will be advised which is all was done And this is the last president of any Impeachment or of any person questioned in Parliament in a Judicial way that is upon the Rolls in the Tower And I do not remember that I have read or heard of any Trial in Parliament in a Judicial way since that time till the E. of Straffords in our memory whose Trial was compleated in that way but he was attainted and condemned by the Legislative power During all the Trial from the beginning to the end the Bishops were never present at any part of it And it yet appears upon the Journal Book of the House of Peers though many passages be razed but this is not That upon the 9. of March 1640. upon a Report brought in by the Lord Privy Seal of something concerning that business and a debate arising upon it the Bishops withdrew it being In agitatione cause sanguinis It is true there was in that same Parliament the February before an Impeachment of High Treason brought up from the House of Commons against the Lord Keeper Finch but it never came to Trial for he fairly ran away and got beyond Sea whereupon by the Order of the Lords Temporal a Proclamation was issued forth for him to appear the 10. of March following the words of the Proclamation are Rex Uice-comiti c. Cum Communitas Regni nostri Anglie in presenti Parliament Iohannem Dominum Finch de Fordich nuper Custodem Magni Sigilli Anglie de Alta Proditione accusaverit impetierit Cumque per Dominos Temporales in eodem Parliamento de assensu advisamento nostris Ordinatum existit quod Proclamatio per totum regnum nostrum Anglie publice fiat qd idem Iohannes Dominus Finch in propria persona sua compareat se reddat coram nobis prefatis Dominis decimo die Martii proxime futuro ad respondendum standum recto coram nobis prefatis Dominis ex hoc parte Nos volentes c. The King to the Sheriff c. Whereas our Commons of this our Kingdom of England have in this Parliament accused and impeached John Lord Finch of Fordich late Lord Keeper of the Great Seal of England of High Treason And whereas the Lords Temporal have in the same Parliament with our consent and advice Ordered a Proclamation to be published throughout our whole Kingdom of England that John Lord Finch do personally appear and yield up himself to us and the foresaid Lords upon the 10. of March next following to answer for his Treason and stand to the Iudgment of us and the foresaid Lords in that behalf We willing that the Order have its due effect do command and strictly enjoyn you that upon the receipt of these presents you do in all Cities Market Towns and such other places within your Bayliwick as to you shall seem expedient cause in our name to be publickly proclaimed That John Lord Finch do appear in person and render himself before us and the foresaid Lords in this present Parliament upon the 10. of March aforesaid to answer for the Treason aforesaid and stand to the Iudgment of us and the foresaid Lords in that behalf according to the tenor of the foresaid Order This was the Proclamation Ordered to be made onely by the Temporal Lords and no Bishops present yet was it no part of the Trial but meerly a course taken to have him in Court that he might be tried But because it looked towards a Trial the Bishops must have no hand in it And it is further observable in this president that the Kings learned Counsel was ordered to draw up this Proclamation according to the antient Parliamentary way which shews that it was the ancient Parliamentary way That only the Lords Temporal should be interested in such Proceedings and have the ordering of them and not at all the Bishops And I

upon the Trial of Commoners Though to speak the truth I doubt those Prelates did not much desire this Priviledge but the Salvo to their Right of sitting in all Parliaments to have been what they aimed at most in their Protestation and which they would have to be enrolled but the one could not be without the other and upon no terms would they admit the least scruple should be of their right to sit in Parliament which their withdrawing at that time might seem else to call in some question as they thought and therefore they would make that Protestation For that Popish Clergy was very ambitious and loved to have the rule over all persons and things we see it by Matthew Paris how he branded those Constitutions of Clarendon with terming them Consuetudines iniquas and the Archbishop Becket himself after he had sworn to them repented him of it and enjoyned a severe Penance to himself and suspended himself from the Office of the Altar for several months till he had the Popes Absolution This makes me doubt if the Clergy was of another mind in Richard the Seconds time and if they could not have been well enough contented to have continued sitting as Judges in all Cases if the Canon Law had not debarred them but that being they would make that Protestation consisting as I say of those two parts both which being so approved of by the Parliament and there enrolled became then and so continue to be the Law of the Kingdom For in those times all Laws were so made Only the substance of the Law was agreed upon in Parliament by King Lords and Commons and entred in the Journal Book And the Kings Justices did afterwards draw it up into form and then publish it to be the known standing Law of the Kingdom But that was not needful here because it was not a new thing that did then receive its first being Neither I say was it new before in Henry the Seconds time it appearing by what was then transacted that it was in usage in Henry the Firsts time only it was ratified in that Great Council of Clarendon under Henry the Second with a little more solemnity and the addition of an Oath for the better observance of it And we may carry it yet a little higher to Edward the Confessors days as appears by his Appeal against Earl Godwin in a Great Council which was their Parliament and how long it had been the use and practice before that God knows In E. 4 th time it was the declared Law of the Land you have it in the Year-Book of 10 E. 4. Term. Pas. n. 35. the words are Quant un Sr. est endite ceo serra maunde en le Parliament la le Seneschal d' Engleterre le mettra a respondre il dira De rien culpable se sera trie per Pares suos donque les Seigniors Espirituelx que ne poient consent al mort de home ferront un Procurator en le Parliament donque le Seneschal doit examiner primes le pluis puisne Seignior que est sil soit culpable issint separatim a toues les Seigniors queux sont la c. When a Lord is indicted it shall be returned into Parliament and there the Steward of England shall put him to answer and he shall say Not guilty and this shall be tried by his Peers and then the Lords Spiritual who may not consent to the death of any man shall make their Procurator in Parliament and then the Lord Steward shall ask the youngest Lord if he be Guilty and so severally all the Lords that are there c. This I alledge to shew that even by the Law of the Land the Bishops cannot be Judges in a Case Capital it is true here is mention made of their making a Proctor which was Error Temporis the Errour of those times grounded upon what was so lately done as they looked upon it though irregularly done in the last Parliament of R. 2. whom they considered as their last lawful King and in truth he was so the three Henries that came between being but Usurpers and therefore they had it seems a deference for what was then done though as I have already said it was never done before nor is it in truth a thing very practicable and not at all Parliamentary to have one man or two men as we see it was also done that Parliament represent the whole Bench of Bishops And more than all this as I have already observed which it seems was not then thought of that whole Parliament of R. 2. stands repealed and all that was done in it declared by a subsequent Act of Parliament to be Null and Void But this is but by the way my intent in quoting this Book Case is onely to shew that the Bishops were not excluded Judging in Capital Cases by the Canon Law alone but that the Law of the Land did likewise confirm it and the Courts of Westminster did so conceive of it So I think I may well conclude and with some confidence affirm that Bishops now are not to be Judges to Sit and Vote in Parliament in any Trial or part of a Trial that is in any circumstance which doth any ways lead or conduce to such a Trial of any Capital Offender but the whole Judgment is singly and wholly in the Lords Temporal and to them onely such Judgments do belong as was challenged by them in the Case of the Earl of Northumberland 5 H. 4. and is so declared to be in several other Cases upon the Rolls of Parliament And having thus delivered you my opinion and my grounds for that opinion I submit it to your judgment and rest SIR Your Humble Servant POSTSCRIPT SIR AS I was closing my Letter two Papers were brought me one in Written hand the other Printed which maintain an Opinion clean contrary to mine I shall tell you what they say and give my Answer to it then leave it to you to determine who is in the right The written Paper to prove their right of Judicature in all Cases none excepted declares Bishops to be Peers of the Land and a Third Estate in Parliament and therefore are not to be excluded from being Judges in all Cases as well Capital as other To prove them Peers of the Land he urges Statute Law and Common Law for the Statute Law he alledges the 25 of Ed. 3. c. 6. and the 4 of H. 5. c. 6. First For the Statute Law let me tell you It is not every expression Obiter upon the By that is in the Preamble of a Statute as this is of Bishops to be called Peers in these Statutes that makes a thing pass for Law except it be by way of Declaration declaring it to be a Law or reciting it as a Law before made And then I shall shew you how these two particular Statutes run and what they are That of the 25 E. 3. it is true hath in