Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	henry_n	king_n	richard_n	15,475	5	9.2713	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A37313	The debate at large, between the House of Lords and House of Commons, at the free conference, held in the Painted Chamber, in the session of the convention, anno 1688 relating to the word, abdicated and the vacancy of the throne in the Common's vote.	England and Wales. Parliament. House of Lords.; England and Wales. Parliament. House of Commons.	1695 (1695)	Wing D506; ESTC R14958	49,640	162

changing of the Monarchy from an Hereditary to an Elective E. of N m. After this long Debate pray let us endeavour to come as near as we can to an Agreement We have proposed some Questions about which my Lords desired to be satisfied You Gentlemen have not been pleased to give an Answer to them and we have no great Hopes of getting one from you as this Debate seems to be managed On your part you have declared That you do acknowledge the Monarchy is Hereditary and Successive in the Right Line then I cannot see how such an Acknowledgment consists with the Reasons you give for your Vacancy for I cannot imagine how a Kingdom can be an Hereditary Kingdom and that King who hath Children now in being at the time of his forsaking the Government can have the Throne Vacant both of him and his Children The Course of Inheritance as to the Crown of England is by our Law a great deal better provided for and runs stronger in the right Line of Birth than of any other Inheritance No Attainder of the Heir of the Crown will bar the Succession to the Throne as it doth the Descent to any common person The very Descent by Order of Birth will take away any such Defect And so was the Opinion of the great Lawyers of England in the Case of Henry the seventh Then cannot I apprehend how any Act of the Father's can bar the Right of the Child I do not mean that an Act of Parliament cannot do it I never said so nor thought so but I say no Act of the Father's alone can do it since even the Act of the Son which may endanger an Attainder in him cannot do it so careful is the Law of the Royal Line of Succession This is declar'd by many Acts of Parliament and very fully and particularly by that Statute 25 Henry the Eighth Cap. 22 entituled An Act concerning the King's Succession where the Succession of the Crown is limited to the King's Issue-Male first then Female and the Heirs of their Bodies one after another by course of Inheritance according to their Ages as the Crown of England hath been accustomed and ought to go in such Cases If then the King hath done any thing to divest himself of his own Right it doth not follow thence that That shall exclude the Right of his Issue and then the Throne is not Vacant as long as there are any such Issue for no Act of the Father can Vacant for himself and Children Therefore if you mean no more than but the divesting his own Right I desired you would declare so And then suppose the Right gone as to him yet if it descend to his Lineal Successor it is not Vacant And I told you One Reason my Lord 's did stand upon against agreeing to the Vacancy was Because they thought your Vote might extend a great deal further than the King 's own Person But your all owning it to be a Lineal Inheritance and this Vacancy methinks do not by any means consist You declare you never meant to alter the Constitution then you must preserve the Succession in its ancient course So I did hear a worthy Gentleman conclude it to be your Intention to do But by what methods can it be done in this Case by us I desire to be satisfied in a few things about this very matter I desire first to know Whether the Lords and Commons have Power by themselves to make a binding Act or Law And then I desire to know Whether according to our ancient Legal Constitution every King of England by being seated on the Throne and possessed of the Crown is not thereby King to him and his Heirs And without an Act of Parliament which we alone cannot make I know not what Determination we can make of his Estate It has been urged indeed That we have in Effect already agreed to what is contain'd in this Vote by Voting That it is inconsistent with our Religion and Laws to have a Popish Prince to Rule over us But I would fain know Whether they that urge this think that the Crown of Spain is Legally and Actually excluded from the Succession by this Vote No Man sure will undertake to tell me That Vote of either House or both Houses together can Alter the Law in this or any other point But because I am very desirous that this Vote should have its Effect I desire that every thing of this Nature should be done in the antient usual Method by Act of Parliament GOD forbid that since we are happily deliver'd from the Fears of Popery and Arbitrary Power we should assume any such Power to our selves What Advantage should we then give to those who would quarrel with our Settlement for the Illegality of it Would not this which we thus endeavour to crush break forth into a Viper For that Record of 1. Henry the Fourth I acknowledge the words of the Royal Seat being Vacant are us'd But since you your selves tell us of it That Henry the Fourth did claim by Inheritance from his Grandfather that methinks may come up to what I would have the declared sence of both Houses upon this Question to wit The Throne might be Vacant of Richard the Second but not so Vacant but the claim of the immediate Successor was to take place and not be excluded but entirely preserved And Richard the Second seems to have had the same Opinion by delivering over his Signet to them Our Laws know no Inter regnum but upon the Death of the Predecessor the next Heir is in uno eodem instanti It was so Resolv'd even in Richard the Second's own Case for at his Grandfather's Death it was a Question Whether King Richard the Second or the Eldest Son of his Grandfather then living should succeed and it was Resolved That he ought to have it because of his Right of Inheritance which is the more remarkable because of the contest And when Richard the Third usurped his Crown to make his Claim good to the Right of Inheritance he Bastardized his own Nephews And so it was in all the Instances of the Breaches that were made upon the Line of Succession which were some Seven but all illegal for such was the Force of the Laws that the Usurpers would not take the Crown upon them unless they had some specious pretence of an Hereditary Title to it That which I would have Avoided by all means is the Mischievous Consequences that I fear will ensue upon this Vacancy of the Throne to wit the utter Overthrow of the whole Costitution of our Government For if it be so and the Lords and Commons only remain as parts of it Will not this make the King one of the Three Estates Then is he the Head of the Commonwealth all united in one Body under him And if the Head be taken away and the Throne Vacant by what Laws or Constitutions is it that we retain Lords and Commons For they are

need of standing upon a Vacancy If we are to Fill it according to the Humour of the Times and of those that are to make the Choice that diverts the course of Inheritance puts it into another Line And I cannot see by what Authority we can do that or change our Ancient Constitution without committing the same Fault we have laid upon the King These are the Objections against the Vacancy of the Throne which occur to me and We my Lords desire a Satisfaction to them before we agree to the Vacancy And I think the Answering them will lead us unto that which I take to be the main point in question Whether the Vacancy of the Throne and Filling it again will not as my Lords say endanger the turning this Hereditary Monarchy of ours into an Elective one Mr. S l. My Lords it seems very strange to us that this Question should be asked us when we come to shew That your Lordships Reasons for leaving out this part of our Vote are not satisfactory neither do answer the Reasons we gave for our not agreeing to your Lordships Amendmonts And it is much stranger that we should be asked Whether this Vacancy extend to the Heirs when you will not tell us whether it be Vacant as to King James himself You put it upon us to say the Execution or Exercise of the Government is ceased but you will not say the Throne is vacant so much as to him And if it be not what have we to do or consider or debate of any consequence whether it will infer an Election or not We desire of your Lordships that which we think is very proper first to know whether the Throne be vacant at all If it be then our Proposition in the conclusion of our Vote is true That the Throne is thereby vacant My Lords I think we come here very much in vain till this Point be setl'd What Satisfaction can it be to your Lordships or Us or the Nation to know that such things as are mentioned in the Votes have been done by King James and that he has deserted as you say the Government if he still retain a Right to it and your Lordships will not declare he hath no Right but amuse the Kingdom with the doubtful words of the Exercise as to him Ceasiug If that be all you mean what need the Question be asked how far it is vacant for it should seem it is not vacant at all E. of N m. Will you please to suppose it Vacant as to King James that is that he hath no Right Then let us go on to the next step Mr. S l. That my Lords we cannot do for all our business is to maintain our own That the Throne is Vacant Mr. S s. My Lords your Lordships as a Reason against the word Abdicate say It is not a word known in our Common Law But the word Vacant about which we are now disputing cannot have that Objection made to it for we find it in our Records and even apply'd in a parallel Case to this of ours in 1 Hen. IV where it is expresly made use of more than once and there it doth import what I think it doth import in this Vote of the House of Commons now in debate and to require any further or other Explication of it than the Record gives will be very hard and unreasonable for we are here to give the Commons Reasons for maintaining their own Vote and nothing else If your Lordships please to look into the Record in that case there was first a Resignation of the Crown and Government made and subscribed by King Richard the Second and this is brought into the Parliament and there they take notice that the Sedes Regalis those are the words fuit vacua and the Resignation being read both in Latin and in English in the Great Hall at Westminster where the Parliament was then assembled it was accepted by the Lord's and Commons After that it proceeds further and there are Articles exhibited against Richard the Second and upon these Articles they went on to Sentence of Deposition and Deprivation and then followeth the words in the Record Et confessim ut constabat ex proemissis eorum occasione Regnum Angliae cuui pertinentiis suis vacare Then Henry the Fourth riseth up out of his place as Duke of Lancaster where he sate before and standing so high that he might be well enough seen makes this Claim to the Crown The words in the Record are Dictum regnum Angliae sic ut praemitur Vacans una cum Corona vendicat After that the Record goeth on That upon this Claim the Lords and Commons being asked What they thought of it they unanimoufly consented and the Archbishop took him by the Hand and led him ad Sedem Regalem Proedictum c. Nay and after all this it is there taken notice of and particularly observed that prius Vacante sede Regali by the Leasion and Deposition aforesaid all the publick Officers ceased there is care taken for Hen. IV's taking the Royal Oath and granting of new Commissions My Lords the Commons do therefore apprehend that with very good Reason and Authority they did in their Vote declare the Throne to be Vacant But as to the going further to enquire into the Consequences of that or what is to be done afterwards is not our Commission who came here only to maintain their Expressions in their Vote against your Lordships Amendments E. of R r. In a free Conference the Points in question are freely and fully to be debated and my Lords in order to their agreement with the Commons are to be satisfied what is meant and how far it may extend You Gentlemen that are the Managers for the House of Commons it seems come with a limited Commission and will not enter into that Consideration which as our Reasons express hath a great weight with my Lords Whether this Vote of the Commons will not make the Monarchy of England which has always heretofore been Hereditary to become Elective That the Vacancy of the Throne will infer such a Consequence to me appears very plain And I take it from the Argument that that last Gentleman used for the word Vacant out of the Record of Richard the Second's time that is cited for a President for that word But as that is the only President yet it is attended with this very Consequence for it being there declared That the Royal Seat was Vacant immediately did follow an Election of Henry the Fourth who was not next in the Right Line Did not then this Hereditary Monarchy in this Instance become Elective When King Charles the Second died I would fain know whether in our Law the Throne was Vacant No sure the next Heir was immediately in the Throne And so it is in all Hereditary Successive Governments Indeed in Poland when the King dyes there is a Vacancy because there the Law knows no certain Successor So that the