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A48822
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The late apology in behalf of the papists reprinted and answered in behalf of the royallists
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Lloyd, William, 1627-1717.
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1673
(1673)
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Wing L2684; ESTC R30040
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38,961
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49
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King he would not meddle between them I leave that Question saith he to be decided by the two Supream Powers the Pope and the King when occasion shall be for it My Lords and Gentlemen had this been a new Sect not known before something perchance might have been doubted but to lay this at their doors that have govern'd the civilliz'd world is the miracle of miracles to us Sir we know not how to cure your wonder but by shewing you 't is unreasonable For you can it a Miracle that men judge according to good Evidence Who doubts less of the dangerousness of your Principles and Practices than they that have Read most and had most Experience of them We can give you no greater instance than in King James of blessed Memory who was no stranger to you either way and this is his judgment of you That as on the one part many honest â—en sâ—dâ—ced with some Errors of Poâ—ery may yet remain goâ—d and faitâ—ful Subjects So on the other part none of those that truly know and believe â—he whole grounds and School-conclusions of â—heir Doctrines can ever prove either goâ—d Christians or good Subjects But pray Sir when was it that you govern'd the civiliz'd World For the Eastern and Southern Churches never own'd your Government nor yet the Western while Learning flourished But when Barbarity had over-run it then Popery grew up by degrees and made it more Barbarous both in Ignorance and in Cruelty Then came in those Doctrines of Transubstantiation c. Then came in those Papal Usurpations c. which the Woâ—ld being again Civiliz'd hath partly thrown off and partly reduced into more tolerable terms Did Richard the First or Edward Long-shanks suspect his Catholicks that served in Palestine and make our Countryes Fame big in the Chronicle of all Ages or did they mistrust in their dangerous absence their Subjects at home because they were of the same profession could Edward the Third imagine those to be traiterous in their Doctrine that had that care and duty for their Prince as to make them by Statute guilty of Death in the highest Degree that had the least thought of ill against the King be pleased that Henry the Fifth be remembred also who did those Wonders of which the whole World does yet resound and certainly all History will agree in this that 't was Oldcastle he feared and not those that believed the Bishop of Rome to be Head of the Church The Reigns of those Kings whom you speak of were in those dark times when all Goodness declin'd and Corruptions were daily growing upon us Richard the First being told he had three wicked Daughters Pride Covetousness and Leachery said he could not Match them better than among your Templers Fathers and Friars Edward the First out-law'd the whole Clergy of this Realm for refusing to pay the King any Taxes because the Pope had forbidden them to do it And both those other Princes whom you mention made Laws against his Usurpations Edward the Third made a notable one of this kind by advice of that very Parliament in which he enacted his Laws against Treason And certainly Henry the Second was more vex'd with Becket than ever Henry V. feared Oldcastle We doubt not those Kings had many good Subjects and our King hath some better than you seem to be But they differed not in Religion as you do from ours And yet then your Faction was always encroaching where it was suffered and dangerous where it was opposed Did not your Pope force King John to do him homage for England Did he not wrestle with Edward I. for the Sovereignty of Scotland Hath he not often laid claim to the Kingdom of Ireland If the old Gentleman in a pet should go to turn out his Tenant what would our King have left when these are disposed of We will no longer trouble you with putting you in mind of any more of our mighty Kings who have been feared abroad and as safe at home as any since the Reformation of Religion We shall only add this That if Popery be the enslaving of Princes France still believes it self as absolute as Denmark or Sweden The French King will believe what he pleases but not all that you say of him For he cannot but know that the Pope gave away that Kingdom from some of his Predecessors and maintained War in it against his Grandfather till he brought him to his terms And why hath not His Holiness dealt so with him that now is partly for the sake of his Religion but chiefly for fear of a Storm lest his Coin should do that which Lewis the Twelfth's only threatned in the Inscription of it PERDAM BABYLONIS NOMEN Nor will ever the House of Austria abjure the Pope to secure themselves of the fidelity of their Subjects For the Austrian Princes that are so link'd to the Pope and whose Subjects are all Papists you suggest a mad way to secure themselves by firing their Countrey about their ears But what is this to England where since the exclusion of that trash which you call the Catholick Faith the King and the greatest part of his People are no Papists and have had so much trouble and danger for it from them that are May not Reason and Experience teach us to fear that having to do with the same kind of Adversaries we may still have some troublesome and dangerous Enemies No we have none to fear but our selves if we may believe you For say you We shall always acknowledge to the whole world that there have been as many brave English in this last Century as in any other place whatsoever yet since the exclusion of the Catholick Faith there hath been that committed by those who would fain be called Protestants that the wickedest Papist at no time dreamt of Pray Sir what may that be For you have murthered Kings and them of your own Religion four or five in this Realm since the Conquest not to speak of those Numbers elsewhere But that was in the growing Age of Popery In latter times have you so soon forgot our Kings Grand-Father Henry IV. murthered by Ravilliac or his Predecesfor Henry III. murthered by Fryar Clement and the People you have kill'd up by whole Families and Townships Witness England Ireland France Piedmont which you may hear of elsewhere These things have been done by Papists broad awake and what must that be which the wickedst of them never dreamt of 'T was never heard of before that an absolute Queen was condemned by Subjects and those styled her Peers or that a King was publickly Tryed and Executed by his own People and Servants First you tell us of the Queen of Scots being put to Death in Queen Elizabeths Reign It was by the same colour of right we suppose that Wallis suffered in Edward the First 's Reign namely of that Sovereignty that our Princes challenged over Scotland But Edward I. was
Legitimate Daughter to Henry the Eighth and therefore it was thought necessarily to follow by many That if Mary was the true Child Elizabeth was the Natural which must then needs give way to the thrice Noble Queen of Scots Under Queen Elizabeth you wish your Party had more patience and we think they Needed none for in the first ten Years of her Reign they had no Business for it In all that space of time which was twice as long as Queen Maries Reign though it was fresh in memory what the Papists had done yet not one of them suffered Death till the Northern Rebellion which being raised against her only upon the account of her Religion it appears that She was the persecuted person She had the occasion for Patience and you would have wished Them more Loyalty if any such thing had been in your thoughts But perhaps you wish they had so much patience as not to have discovered their design before it was fully ripe for execution Not unlike For it appears you account Rebellion no fault by this that you say you excuse not their faults and yet you do excuse their Rebellion You excuse them by saying it was a very hard Question whether the Right of the Crown lay in her or in the Queen of Scots for that many thought Queen Elizabeth Illegitimate Pray Sir who Thought it or when arose that Question The Arch-Bishop of York though a Papist in his Speech at the publishing of Queen Maries Death said No man could doubt of the justness of the Lady Elizabeths Title to the Succession The whole Kingdom received her and owned her as Queen more generally and freely than eyer they did Queen Mary The Neighbour Kings of Spain and France and the Emperor offered Marriage to her in hopes to have got the Crown by her The Queen of Scots her self did acknowledge her and claimed nothing more than to be Heir to her and so did King James that was her Successor So that whosoever opposed Queen Elizabeths Right if they were English 'c is apparent they were Rebels and if they were Papists we may guess what led them to it For the first that Questioned her Title was Pope Paul IV. who would not acknowledge her for sundry causes the chief that he alledged were these First Because this Kingdom is a Fee of the Papacy and it was audaciously done of her to assume it without his leave The second was because she was Illegitimate for if her Fathers Marriage were good the Pope must let down his Mill. But after all this his Successor Pius IV did own her and would have done any thing for her so she would have owned him Which because she would not the next Pope Pius V. issued out his Bull against her and deposed her not for Bastardy but for Heresie that is for being a Protestant for which Heresie it was that the Northern men Rebelled against her and many more of her Subjects disowned her and some or other were every foot plotting how to take away her life True it is that some of these pretended to do it in favour of the Queen of Scots But how if that Queen had not been a Catholick or Queen Elizabeth had not Been thought Illegitimate would a legitimate Protestant have been so contended for or would a Popish Bastard have been rejected by them Pope Gregory XIII had occasion to consider this For his Holiness had a Bastard of his own to provide for and another of the Emperors no doubt good Catholicks both of them To one he gave the Kingdom of Ireland and set out Stukely with Forces to win it for him To the other he gave the Kingdom of England and gave him leave to win it for himself But what was all this to the thrice Noble Queen of Scots Possibly she might have been preferred to have married one of the rwo but then it must have been expresly with this condition That her Son King James who was a Heretick should have nothing to do with the Succession When their bubbles were broken and she was dead all her Right descended to King James who being as little to the Pope's mind as Q. Elizabeth was Sixtus V. only took no publick notice of Him but he proceeded with all his might against Her He curst her afresh and publisht a Croysade against her and gave the whole Right of Her Kingdoms to Philip the II. King of Spain But neither that Popes Bounty nor his three Successors Blessings nor the Spanish Arms nor the Italian Arts for no way was left untried could ever prevail against Gods Providence which till the end of her days kept that Queen always fast in her Possessions At last Pope Clement VIII seeing there was nothing to be done against her resolv'd to let her go like a Heretick as she was and to take the more care that another Heretick should not succeed her For which cause he sent over two Breves into England one to the Clergy and the other to the Laity commanding them not to admit any other but a Catholick though never so near in Blood to the Succession that is to say in plain words not to admit King James to Reign after Queen Elizabeths death So 't is clear that your Popes never stuck at that hard Question that you speak of Let us see what our Country-men did who as you say suffered for it in those days They did like obsequious Members at every turn as their Head directed them They acted for the Papal Interest as far as they were able They made the House of Scotland the Cloak for it as far as it would reach And it reacht pretty well as long as the Title was in Queen Mary But after the Title came to be in King James Pray Sir name us those Papists or but one single person of them that either died or suffered for Him and then you bless us with a discovery What then were they idle for so many years as past between the commencing of his Title and the Death of Queen Elizabeth Nothing less For they were as busie as Bees in contriving how to hasten her Death and how to put him by the Succession And if it were for his Service that they would have destroyed Her pray for whose service was it that they would have defeated Him but that will be known by the story Soon after his Mothers Death was the Spanish Invasion which would have defeated him with a Witness if it had sped and yet our Papists both Negotiated it and writ in Defence of it Afterwards in Scotland your Jesuites procured the Earl of Huntley and others to raise a powerful Rebellion against him In England they endeavoured to perswade the Earl of Derby to set up a Title to the Crown who honestly revealing it was poisoned soon after according to the prophetical threatning of Hesket whom they had made use of to perswade him When