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A09108 A revievv of ten publike disputations or conferences held vvithin the compasse of foure yeares, vnder K. Edward & Qu. Mary, concerning some principall points in religion, especially of the sacrament & sacrifice of the altar. VVherby, may appeare vpon how vveake groundes both catholike religion vvas changed in England; as also the fore-recounted Foxian Martyrs did build their new opinions, and offer themselues to the fire for the same, vvhich vvas chiefly vpon the creditt of the said disputations. By N.D.; Review of ten publike disputations. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. 1604 (1604) STC 19414; ESTC S105135 194,517 376

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day_n yet_o in_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n they_o do_v as_o also_o in_o many_o other_o particular_a circumstance_n usinge_v the_o word_n of_o oblation_n sacrifice_n victim_n sign_n sing_n blessing_n elevation_n and_o other_o such_o rite_n which_o protestant_n can_v abide_v and_o for_o the_o cannon_n and_o form_n of_o our_o mass_n which_o be_v use_v at_o this_o day_n in_o the_o latyn_n church_n most_o part_n thereof_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o s._n ambrose_n his_o book_n de_fw-fr sacramentis_fw-la and_o the_o whole_a order_n as_o now_o it_o be_v have_v endure_v without_o alteration_n from_o s._n gregory_n the_o first_o downward_o whereof_o you_o may_v see_v alcuinus_fw-la amalarius_n walfridus_n and_o other_o ancient_a author_n in_o their_o book_n de_fw-fr divinis_fw-la officijs_fw-la 53._o by_o all_o which_o general_a head_n you_o may_v mass_n easy_o see_v the_o multitude_n of_o testimony_n that_o may_v be_v allege_v out_o of_o the_o father_n if_o we_o shall_v prosecute_v every_o one_o of_o these_o in_o particular_a &_o how_o great_a reason_n martin_n luther_n have_v to_o except_v against_o they_o all_o or_o rather_o to_o defy_v they_o all_o when_o first_o he_o begin_v to_o write_v against_o this_o sacrifice_n hic_fw-la non_fw-la moramur_fw-la say_v he_o si_fw-la clamitant_fw-la papistae_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la patres_fw-la patres_fw-la here_o we_o care_v hegem_fw-la not_o though_o papist_n cry_v church_n church_n father_n father_n and_o again_o here_o i_o do_v profess_v against_o they_o that_o will_v cry_v out_o that_o i_o do_v teach_v against_o the_o rite_n of_o the_o church_n and_o ordinance_n of_o father_n that_o i_o will_v hear_v none_o of_o these_o objection_n and_o in_o another_o place_n against_o our_o k._n henry_n of_o england_n much_o more_o immodest_o and_o wicked_o when_o the_o king_n allege_v the_o authoritye_n of_o ancient_a father_n for_o the_o mass_n this_o shameless_a fellow_n answer_v thomistico_v asinos_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o say_v that_o these_o thomisticall_a ass_n have_v nothing_o to_o bring_v forth_o but_o only_o a_o multitude_n of_o man_n and_o use_v of_o antiquity_n and_o a_o little_a after_o he_o say_v express_o that_o he_o care_v not_o though_o a_o thousand_o augustine_n and_o a_o thousand_o cyprian_n be_v bring_v against_o he_o so_o as_o this_o first_o father_n and_o chief_a captain_n of_o our_o protestant_n do_v easy_o grant_v as_o you_o see_v that_o the_o whole_a consent_n of_o ancient_a father_n be_v against_o he_o ponderation_n upon_o the_o premise_n §._o 4._o 54._o all_o which_o be_v consider_v there_o remain_v only_o to_o weigh_v what_o a_o discreet_a man_n consideration_n may_v think_v or_o do_v in_o this_o important_a case_n for_o first_o here_o be_v all_o the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o christian_a 1._o church_n on_o the_o one_o side_n that_o testify_v unto_o we_o not_o only_o what_o be_v believe_v and_o exercise_v in_o their_o day_n but_o upon_o what_o ground_n also_o both_o of_o scripture_n of_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n and_o by_o christ_n own_o institution_n fact_n and_o ordination_n and_o by_o the_o practice_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o then_o be_v there_o 2._o the_o continuance_n of_o all_o age_n since_o throughout_o all_o country_n and_o nation_n of_o christendom_n as_o have_v be_v say_v there_o be_v the_o agreement_n of_o all_o 3._o general_a counsel_n the_o consent_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a 4._o history_n wherein_o as_o there_o be_v continual_a mention_n of_o both_o public_a and_o private_a exercise_n of_o this_o external_a sacrifice_n so_o be_v there_o 5._o no_o memory_n at_o all_o of_o any_o time_n since_o the_o apostle_n wherein_o it_o begin_v or_o that_o ever_o any_o contradiction_n doubt_n or_o question_n be_v about_o the_o same_o for_o 1200._o year_n together_o after_o christ_n assension_n which_o must_v needs_o have_v happen_v if_o the_o use_n thereof_o have_v not_o be_v prescribe_v and_o leave_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n themselves_o for_o what_o man_n or_o people_n will_v have_v attempt_v to_o begin_v or_o bring_v in_o so_o great_a a_o matter_n as_o this_o or_o who_o will_v have_v receive_v it_o without_o opposition_n if_o it_o have_v not_o be_v establish_v even_o from_o the_o begin_v i_o add_v also_o another_o consideration_n of_o no_o little_a importance_n 6._o which_o be_v that_o if_o christ_n have_v leave_v his_o church_n &_o people_n without_o a_o particular_a external_a sacrifice_n whereby_o they_o shall_v be_v distinguish_v from_o all_o other_o people_n the_o christian_a church_n under_o the_o law_n of_o grace_n shall_v be_v inferior_a to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o patriarch_n under_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o unto_o the_o prophet_n under_o the_o law_n of_o moses_n for_o that_o both_o of_o those_o church_n and_o people_n have_v a_o external_a daily_a sacrifice_n whereby_o to_o honour_n god_n beside_o the_o internal_a sacrifice_n of_o their_o mind_n neither_o can_v it_o be_v say_v that_o christ_n own_o sacrifice_n on_o the_o cross_n once_o offer_v for_o all_o be_v this_o daily_a sacrifice_n apprehend_v by_o we_o in_o faith_n for_o that_o they_o also_o believe_v in_o he_o and_o their_o sacrifice_n be_v acceptable_a only_o by_o faith_n in_o he_o to_o come_v and_o therefore_o as_o christ_n one_o sacrifice_n then_o to_o come_v be_v no_o impediment_n why_o their_o daily_a sacrifice_n which_o take_v their_o valour_n from_o this_o one_o of_o christ_n shall_v not_o be_v daily_o offer_v among_o they_o so_o the_o same_o sacrifice_n of_o christ_n upon_o the_o cross_n be_v now_o past_a shall_v not_o take_v away_o our_o daily_a sacrifice_n offer_v in_o remembrance_n thereof_o and_o for_o the_o apply_v of_o the_o infinite_a valour_n of_o that_o one_o sacrifice_n unto_o we_o from_o which_o this_o other_o daily_a sacrifice_n take_v his_o sufficiency_n 55._o furthermore_o the_o very_a outward_a form_n of_o all_o christian_a church_n there_o buildinge_v 7._o with_o cross_n altar_n isle_n and_o the_o like_a the_o foundinge_a of_o monasterye_n chapel_n be_v oratorye_n the_o ceremony_n in_o foundinge_a they_o their_o statute_n for_o say_v of_o mass_n for_o the_o dead_a which_o be_v in_o britain_n both_o before_o our_o nation_n be_v convert_v and_o much_o more_o after_o the_o whole_a canon_n of_o our_o latyn_n mass-book_n which_o be_v grant_v by_o our_o adversaries_n and_o evident_o prove_v to_o have_v be_v as_o it_o be_v now_o for_o above_o a_o thousand_o year_n together_o and_o bring_v in_o by_o s._n augustine_n our_o first_o apostle_n all_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v do_v show_v whether_o this_o be_v a_o matter_n to_o be_v call_v in_o question_n by_o a_o few_o libertyne_a priest_n and_o avaritious_a noble_a man_n &_o to_o be_v banish_v the_o realm_n upon_o a_o sudden_a under_o the_o name_n of_o a_o child_n king_n that_o know_v not_o what_o it_o mean_v as_o it_o be_v in_o k._n edward_n day_n in_o our_o miserable_a country_n 56._o moreover_o if_o you_o ponder_v with_o yourself_o what_o manner_n of_o priest_n they_o be_v for_o 8._o life_n learning_n and_o virtue_n that_o acknowledge_v themselves_o to_o have_v offer_v sacrifice_n upon_o altar_n in_o their_o day_n as_o s._n irenaeus_n s._n cyprian_n s._n ambrose_n s._n chrysostome_n s._n augustine_n s._n gregory_n and_o other_o of_o the_o first_o age_n yea_o and_o for_o these_o ●ater_a age_n since_o berengarius_fw-la move_v first_o the_o question_n about_o the_o real_a presence_n as_o s._n anselme_n ●_o bernard_n s._n thomas_n of_o aquin_n s._n dominicke_n and_o mass_n almost_o infinite_a other_o saint_n and_o holy_a man_n of_o who_o all_o history_n do_v report_v wonderful_a extraordinary_a token_n of_o almighty_a god_n his_o special_a favour_n towards_o they_o and_o do_v compare_v they_o with_o the_o first_o marry_v priest_n and_o apostata_fw-la friar_n that_o be_v the_o first_o impugner_n of_o this_o sacrifice_n in_o england_n or_o round_a about_o we_o we_o shall_v find_v a_o great_a difference_n and_o then_o if_o we_o consider_v by_o what_o good_a spirit_n or_o motive_n 9_o luther_n begin_v the_o first_o contradiction_n in_o germany_n which_o be_v by_o the_o devil_n own_o persuasion_n and_o personal_a appearance_n unto_o he_o and_o disputinge_v against_o it_o for_o it_o seem_v that_o he_o esteem_v so_o much_o both_o of_o the_o man_n and_o the_o matter_n that_o he_o will_v not_o send_v a_o ambassador_n unto_o he_o as_o he_o do_v soon_o after_o to_o zuinglius_fw-la for_o impugninge_v the_o real_a presence_n but_o go_v himself_o in_o proper_a person_n and_o that_o all_o this_o be_v confess_v by_o themselves_o and_o testify_v by_o their_o own_o write_n all_o this_o i_o say_v be_v lay_v together_o may_v strengthen_v he_o that_o have_v any_o faith_n at_o all_o to_o stand_v constant_a in_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n concern_v these_o article_n for_o if_o there_o be_v any_o certainty_n or_o ground_n in_o christian_a religion_n at_o all_o