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A04482 The true copies of the letters betwene the reuerend father in God Iohn Bisshop of Sarum and D. Cole vpon occasion of a sermon that the said Bishop preached before the Quenes Maiestie, and hir most honorable Counsel. 1560. Set forthe and allowed, according to the order appointed in the Quenes Maiesties iniunctions. Cum gratia & priuilegio RegiƦ Maiestatis per septennium. Jewel, John, 1522-1571.; Cole, Henry, 1500?-1580. aut 1560 (1560) STC 14613; ESTC S107807 107,547 377

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houre of his death ●…nd where ye meane I condescēded to the 〈◊〉 of king Henry at 〈◊〉 first comming home or I had laboured the matter ye dyd the ●…ke your selfe For in Quene Maries tyme ▪ ye subscribed to the 〈◊〉 sume of them we are entred to talke in 〈◊〉 youre no les blame then mine There be in this town that both saw yo●… subscryb and can bryng forth you●… hand The Reply Sarum YEs I thinke ye are gone frō one thing at the least besides pardons and pilgrimeges I ment not D. Gardiner to pul him out of his graue to tormēt him being dead as ye did master Bucer master Fagius in Cambridg Doctour Peter martirs wyfe in Oxon. others mo but onely that I woulde not haue you builde to much vpon your constancy which hitherto hath ●…en fo●…nd to be 〈◊〉 as the pleasure of the prince But he repented him ye saye when he saw he shoulde nedes dye I trust he did so for he had good cause so to do But if he repented himselfe of his boke y ● he had written so stoutly against y ● pope why did he not recant it in all his lyfe tyme why did he not re●…oke hys errour openly why helde he hys peace why dissēbled he so depely for the space of xx yeares together ●…e say it was onely at youre first comming home from Italy that ye condescended to the Prymacie of king Henry Here muste I put you in remembraunce that ye continewed therin still all king Henries time out euen vntill the death of king Edward and y ● cumming in of Quene Mary And yf her grace had continewed out to haue entitled her selfe y ● Supreme head of the church of England as she did a great whyl after her first entry and y ● as it is to bethought without burthen of her conscience I doubt not then but ye woulde haue talkt better with your selfe continewed so still At this meane whyle ye came to the churche ye sayed and heard y e cōmen praiers ye ministred and receiued the cōmunion and in all your doinges bare your selfe as any other subiecte of this realm And thus held out as I said for the space of xxyeres I may say to you this was a good long cumming home Therfore I may well thus conclude ●… ye must nedes confesse the same y t either ye deceiued the people then by your example and conformitye of all your doinges allowing that religion for good whiche in youre conscience ye knew to be nought or els that ye be a dissembler and deceyue the people nowe making them asmuche as in you lyeth by your example to thynke this rel●…gion to be nought whiche in your cōscience and knowledge ye find to be godly and good So y t what soeuer iudgement ye haue now or hertofore haue had of this religiō it must nedes appeare that eyther ye be nowe or els haue ben a deceiuer of the people But after ye had laboured the matter better and as ye saye had red the doctours I pray you what doctour found ye y ● euer told you either that y ● Pope ought to haue the supremacy of y ● who le church or y t the Prince in his own church ought not to haue it But I haue subscribed ye saye aswel as ye and my hand is to be seene and there be sume that sawe me when I did it These proufes were nedefull if I had denied the fact But I haue cōfessed it openly and vnrequired in the mides of the congregation The argumēts that ye made were so terrible ye concluded altogether with fyer fagot I confesse I shoulde haue done otherwyse But if I had not done as I did I had not bene her now to encounter with you if ye should now be apposed with y e like conclusions I doubte not but ye woulde be glad to do as bothe ye your self●… and your felowes haue done heretofore ¶ Sarum YE haue Ecclesiam Apostolicam ye saye and we haue none yet ye knowe in all these matters y t we now entreat of we haue the olde doctours churche y ● auncient councels church the primatiue church S. Peters church Saint Paules church and Christes church And this 〈◊〉 beleue onlesse ye can brig me good reason to the cōtrary may be called y ● Apostles church And I marueil muche that ye hauing as ye know none of all these churchs or any shadow or token of th●… yet shold so boldely saye ye haue Ecclesi●… Apostolicam ¶ Cole TO this and sume part of the Article ye shal be answered in the ende of this writing as I before sayed ¶ Sarum WHere ye say ye make no innonatiōs it is no maruell for in a maner all thinges were altered to your hande as may most euidently appeare by all these matters y t be now in question Wherin ye haue vtterly chaunged and abolished the order of the Primatiue church and do nothing els but y ● cōtrary And what euident profit the Church of God hath gotten by it I thinke it a harde matter for you to declare ¶ Cole VVHat nedeth so much of one thinge Thys serueth you to seme to say to much The Reply Sarum ▪ THis answer is so shorte that it concludeth nothing ¶ Sarum YE would haue the matter turned ouer to sume suche generall councell as we woulde be contente to stand vnto How●…it that ye think will not be in your time Notwithstanding this I dare boldely saye suche a councell wil be a great whyle before 〈◊〉 shall finde any doctour or olde councel to serue your purpose But if there neuer be suche a councell yet trueth will be trueth notwithstanding For y ● coūcell can not make fal●…hed trueth but that thinge that it taketh for trueth it certifieth only to be true ¶ Cole I 〈◊〉 ¶ Sarum BUt what redresse can there be 〈◊〉 for at such a councel wheras no mā shall be iudg or suffered to speak 〈◊〉 way or other but onely such as be openly and iustly accused and found faultie And whereas he that is himselfe moste out of order shal be head and reformer of the whole ¶ Cole 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 excuses men laye how 〈◊〉 let 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The reply Sarum YE knowe that in youre owne law there was euermore Exceptio iudicis incompetentis And by what lawe can ye fynde that a man maye be a competente iudge in his own cause if the indifferent vsing of the matter maye be tryed by experyence in thys youre laste generall councell holden at Trydent ye knowe that not one man of oure syde notwythstandynge there wer a great nomber of them there seute thether of purpose by theyr Prynces coulde be suffered to sit amonge the rest or to haue a voyce or to yelde a reason of hys faith And y ● Pope Iulius third gau●… out vnder his bryeue that none of them all shoulde be heard there vnlesse it were ▪ as he sayed to recant their errours And notwstandinge Pighius himself