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A30412 A relation of a conference held about religion at London by Edw. Stillingfleet ... with some gentlemen of the Church of Rome. Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699.; Burnet, Gilbert, 1643-1715. 1687 (1687) Wing B5863; ESTC R4009 107,419 74

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to judge these to be heinous abuses which did much endanger the Salvation of Souls therefore being the Pastors of the Church and being assisted in it by the Civil Powers they had both good reason and sufficient Authority to reform the Church from these Abuses and he left it to M. C. to chuse on which of these Particulars they should discourse M. B. said The Bishops and Pastors having the charge of Souls were bound to feed the Flock with sound Doctrine according to the word of God So S. Paul when he charged the Bishops of Ephesus to feed the Flock and to guard it against Wolves or Seducers he commends them to the word of Gods Grace which is the Gospel And in his Epistles to Timothy and Titus wherein the Rules of the Pastoral charge are set down he commands Timothy and in him all Bishops and Pastors to hold fast the Doctrine and form of sound words which he had delivered and tells him the Scriptures were able to make the man of God perfect If then the Bishops and Pastors of this Church found it corrupted by any unsound Doctrine or Idolatrous Worship they were by the Law of God and the charge of Souls for which they were accountable obliged to throw out these Corruptions and reform the Church and this the rather that the first Question proposed in the Consecration of a Bishop as it is in the Pontifical is Wilt thou teach these things which thou understandest to be in the Scripture to the People committed to thee both by thy Doctrine and Example To which he answers I will M. C. said We had now offered as much as would be the subject of many days discourse and he had but few minutes to spare therefore he desired to be informed what Authority those Bishops had to judge in matters which they found not only in this Church but in all Churches round about them should they have presumed to judge in these matters D. S. said It had been frequently the Practice of many Nations and Provinces to meet in Provincial Synods and reform Abuses For which he offered to prove they had both Authority and President But much more in some Instances he was ready to shew of particulars that had been defined by General Councils which they only applied to their Circumstances and this was never questioned but Provincial Synods might do M. C. desired to be first satisfied by what Authority they could cut themselves off from the Obedience of the See of Rome in King Henry the VIII his days The Pope then was looked on as the Monarch of the Christian World in Spirituals and all Christendom was one Church under One Head and had been so for many Ages So that if a Province or Country would cut themselves from the Body of this Nation for instance Wales that had once distinct Princes and say we acknowledge no right William the Conquerour had so that we reject the Authority of those descended from him they might have the same Plea which this our Church had For the day before that Act of Parliament did pass after the 20. of Henry the VIII the Pope had the Authority in Spirituals and they were his Subjects in Spirituals Therefore their Declaring he had none could not take his Authority from him no more than the Long Parliament had right to declare by any Act that the Sovereign Power was in the Peoples hands in pursuance of which they cut off the Kings Head D. S. said The first General Councils as they established the Patriarchal Power so the Priviledges of several Churches were preserved entire to them as in the case of Cyprus that the British Churches were not within the Patriarchal Jurisdiction of Rome that afterwards the Bishops of Rome striking in with the Interests of the Princes of Europe and watching and improving all Advantages got up by degrees through many Ages into that height of Authority which they managed as ill as they unjustly acquired it and particularly in England where from King William the Conqueror's days as their illegal and oppressive Impositions were a constant Grievance to the People so our Princes and Parliaments were ever put to struggle with them But to affront their Authority Thomas Becket who was a Traitour to the Law must be made a Saint and a day kept for him in which they were to pray to God for Mercy through his Merits It continuing thus for several Ages in the end a vigorous Prince arises who was resolved to assert his own Authority And he looking into the Oaths the Bishops swore to the Pope they were all found in a Praemunire by them Then did the whole Nation agree to assert their own freedom and their Kings Authority And 't was considerable that those very Bishops that in Queen Maries days did most cruelly persecute those of the Church of England and advance the Interests of Rome were the most zealous Assertors and Defenders of what was done by King Henry the VIII Therefore the Popes Power in England being founded on no just Title and being managed with so much Oppression there was both a full Authority and a great deal of reason for rejecting it And if the Maior Generals who had their Authority from Cromwell might yet have declared for the King who had the true Title and against the Usurper so the Bishops though they had sworn to the Pope yet that being contrary to the Allegiance they ow'd the King ought to have asserted the Kings Authority and rejected the Pope's M. B. said It seemed M. C. founded the Popes Right to the Authority he had in England chiefly upon Prescription But there were two things to be said to that First that no Prescription runs against a divine right In the clearing of Titles among Men Prescription is in some Cases a good Title But if by the Laws of God the Civil Powers have a supream Authority over their Subjects then no Prescription whatsoever can void this Besides the Bishops having full Authority and Jurisdiction this could not be bounded or limited by any Obedience the Pope claimed from them Further there can be no Prescription in this case where the Usurpation has been all along contested and opposed We were ready to prove that in the first Ages all Bishops were accounted Brethren Colleagues and fellow-Bishops with the Bishop of Rome That afterwards as he was declared Patriarch of the West so the other Patriarchs were equal in Authority to him in their several Patriarchates That Britain was no part of his Patriarchate but an exempt as Cyprus was That his Power as Patriarch was only for receiving Appeals or calling Synods and did not at all encroach on the Jurisdiction of other Bishops in their Sees and that the Bishops in his Patriarchate did think they might separate from him A famous Instance of this was in the sixth Century when the Question was about the tria Capitula for which the Western Bishops did generally stand and Pope Vigilius wrote in defence of