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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A56321	The declaration of John Pym Esquire upon the whole matter of the charge of high treason against Thomas Earle of Strafford, April 12, 1641 with An argument of law concerning the bill of attainder of high treason of the said Earle of Strafford, before a committee of both Houses of Parliament, in Westminster Hall by Mr. St. Iohn His Majesties solicitor Generall, on Thursday, April 29, 1641 / both published by order of the Commons House.	Pym, John, 1584-1643.; St. John, Oliver, 1598?-1673. Argument of law concerning the bill of attainder of high-treason of Thomas Earle of Strafford.	1641 (1641)	Wing P4262; ESTC R182279	46,678	116

The Kings writ runs not within the County Palatine of Chester and Durham nor within the five Ports neither did it in Wales before the union in Henry the eighth's time after the Lawes of England were brought into Wales in King Edward the first 's time suits were not originally commenced in Westminst Hall for things done in them yet this never excluded the Parliament suits for life lands and goods within those jurisdictions are determinable in Parliament as well as in any other parts of the Realme Ireland as appeares by the Statute of the thirtieth yeer of Henry the third before mentioned is united to the Crowne of England By the Statute of the eight and twentieth yeere of Henry the sixth in Ireland it is declared in these words That Ireland is the proper Dominion of England and united to the Crowne of England which Crowne of England is of it selfe and by it selfe fully wholly and entirely endowed with all power and authority sufficient to yeeld to the subjects of the same full and plenary remedy in all debates and suits whatsoever By the Statute of the three and thirtieth yeer of Henry the eighth the first Chapter when the Kings of England first assumed the title of King of Ireland it is there enacted That Ireland still is to bee held as a Crown annexed and united to the Crown of England So that by the same reason from this that the Kings writ runs not in Ireland it might aswell bee held that the Parliament cannot originally hold plea of things done within the County Palatine of Chester Durham nor within the five Ports Wales Ireland is part of the Realme of England as appears by those Statutes aswell as any of them This is made good by constant practice In all the Parliament rolls from the first to the last there are receivers and tryers of petitions appointed for Ireland For the Irish to come so farre with their petitions for justice and the Parliament not to have cognizance when from time to time they had in the beginning of the Parliament appointed receivers and tryers of them is a thing not to bee presumed An appeale in Ireland brought by William Lord Vescye against John Fitz Thomas for treasonable words there spoken before any Judgement given in the case there was removed into the Parliament in England and there the defendant acquitted as appeares in the Parliament pleas of the two and twentieth yeere of Edward the first The suits for lands offices and goods originally begun here are many and if question grew upon matter in fact a Jury usually ordered to try it and the verdict returned into Parliament as in the case of one Balliben in the Parliament of the five and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first If doubt arose upon a matter triable by Record a writ went to the Officers in whose custody the Record remained to certifie the Record as was in the case of Robert Bagot the same Parliament of the five and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first where the writs went to the Treasurer and Barons of the Exchequer Sometimes they gave judgement here in Parliament and commanded the Judges there in Ireland to doe execution as in the great case of petition between the coparceners of the Earle Marshall in the Parliament of the three and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first where the writ was awarded to the Treasurer of Ireland My Lords The Lawes of Ireland were introduced by the Parliaments of England as appeares by three Acts of Parliament before cited It is of higher jurisdiction dare Leges then to judge by them The Parliaments of England doe binde in Ireland if Ireland bee particularly mentioned as is resolved in the Book case of the first yeere of Henry the seventh Cokes seventh Report Calvins case and by the Judges in Trinity Terme in the three and thirtieth yeere of Queene Elizabeth The Statute of the eighth yeere of Edward the fourth the first Chapter in Ireland recites that it was doubted amongst the Judges whether all the English Statutes though not naming Ireland were in force there if named no doubt From King Henry the third his time downward to the eighth yeere of Queene Elizabeth by which Statute it is made felony to carry sheepe from Ireland beyond seas in almost all these Kings reignes there be Statutes made concerning Ireland The exercising of the Legislative power there over their lives and estates is higher then of the Judiciall in question Untill the nine and twentieth yeere of Edward the third erroneous judgements given in Ireland were determinable no where but in England no not in the Parliaments of Ireland as it appeares in the close rolls in the Tower in the nine and twentieth yeere of Edward the third membr 12. Power to examine and reverse erroneous judgements in the Parliaments of Ireland is granted from hence Writs of errour lie in the Parliament hereupon erroneous judgements after that time given in the Parliaments of Ireland as appears in the Parliament rolls of the eighth yeere of Henry the sixth no. 70. in the case of the Prior of Lenthan It is true the case is not determined there for it 's the last thing that came into the Parliament and could not be determined for want of time but no exception at all is taken to the jurisdiction The Acts of Parliament made in Ireland have bin confirmed in the Parliaments of England as appears by the close rolls in the Tower in the two and fortieth yeere of Edward the third memb 20. dorso where the Parliament in Ireland for the preservation of the Countrey from the Irish who had almost destroyed it made an Act that all the land owners that were English should reside upon their lands or else they were to bee forfeited This was here confirmed In the Parliament of the fourth yeer of Henry the fifth chap. 6. Acts of Parliament in Ireland are confirmed and some priviledges of the Peeres in the Parliaments there are regulated Power to repeale Irish Statutes power to confirme them cannot be by the Parliament here if it hath not cognizance of their Parliaments unlesse it be said That the Parliament may doe it knowes not what Garnesey and Jersey are under the Kings subjection but are not parcels of the Crowne of England but of the Duchy of Normandy they are not governed by the Lawes of England as Ireland is and yet Parliaments in England have usually held plea of and determined all causes concerning lands or goods In the Parliament of 33. H. i● there be plactia de Insula Jernesey and so in the Parliament 14. E. 2. and so for Normandy and Gascoyne and alwaies as long as any part of France was in subjection to the Crown of England there were at the beginning of the Parliaments receivers and tryers of petitions for those parts appointed I beleeve your Lordships will have no cases shewed of any plea to the jurisdiction of the Parliaments of England in any things done in any

My Lords if the Earle had armed two thousand men horse and foot and formed them into companies to this end your Lordships would have conceived that this had beene a warre It 's as much as in the case of Sir Thomas Talbot who armed them in assemblies This is the same with a breach of trust added to it That Army was first raised and afterwards committed to his trust for defence of the people is now destined by him to their destruction This assignation of the Army by his Warrant under his hand and seale is an open Act. My Lords heer 's not onely an open act done but a levying of warre Souldiers both horse and foot with an Officer in warlicke manner sessed upon the Subject which killed their Cattell consumed and wasted their goods Ob. O but five or sixe were the most imimployed at any time a mighty warre of six men scarce a Ryot Your Lordships observe a great difference where six single men goe upon a designe alone and when sent from an Army of six hundred all engaged in the same service so many were sent as were sufficient to execute the Command if upon a poore man fewer more upon a rich if the six had not beene able the whole Army must make it good the reason that the Sheriffe alone or with but one Bayliffe to doe execution is because hee hath the Command of the Law the Kings Writ and the posse Comitatus in case of Resistance heer 's the warrant of the Generall of an Army heer 's the posse exercitus the power of the Army under this awe of the whole Army six may force more then sixty without it and although never above fix in one place yet in the severall parts of the Kingdome at the same time might be above sixty for sessing of Souldiers was frequent it was the ordinary course for execution of his orders The Lord Lievetenant of a County in England hath a designe to alter the Lawes and governement nay admit the designe goes not so high hee onely declares thus much that he will order the freeholds and estates of the Inhabitans of the County at his owne will and pleasure and doth accordingly proceed upon paper petitions foreseeing there will be disobedience he grants out warrants under his hand and seale to the deputy Lievetenants and Captaines of the traine bands that upon refusall they shall take such number of the traine bands thorow the County with Officers as they shall think good and lay them upon the lands and houses of the refusers Souldiers in a warlike manner are frequently sessed upon them accordingly Your Lordships doe conceive that this is a levying of Warre within the Statute The Case in question goes further in these two Respects That it is more against the declared Law in Ireland not onely against the Common Law but likewise against the Statute of the eight and twentieth yeare of Henry the sixt against the Acts of the Commissioners against Proclamations in pursuance of the Law against that himselfe took notice of narrow hearted Comissioners In this that here was an Army the Souldiers Souldiers by profession Acts of hostility from them of greater Terror then from free-holders of the same County My Lords I have now done with the first of levying warre The second is the machination the advising of a warre The Case in this rests upon the Warrant to Savill and the advice in the 23 Article The Warrant shewes a resolution of employing the old Army of Ireland to the opprossion of his Majesties Subjects and the Lawes In the 23 Article having told his Majesty that he was loosed and absolved from rules of Government and might doe every thing which power might admit hee proceeded further in speech to his Majesty in these words You have an Army in Ireland You may employ to reduce this Kingdome My Lords both being put together ther 's a machination a practise an advise to levy warre and by force to oppresse and destroy his Majesties Subjects Object It hath beene said the Statute of 25. Edw. 3. is a penall Law and cannot bee taken by equity and Construction there must be an actuall warre the Statute makes it Treason to counterfeit the Kings Coyne the conspiring the raising of furnaces is no Treason unlesse he doth nummum percutere actually coyne Answ My Lords this is onely said not proved the Law is otherwise 19. of Henry the sixt fol. 47. there adjudged that the conspiring and ayding to counterfeit coyne was Treason and Iustice Stamford fol. 3. 44. is of opinion That this or conspiring to counterfeit the great Seale is Treason The Statute is If any shall counterfeit the great Seale conspiring to doe it by the book is Treason if a man take the broad Seale from one Pattent and put it to another here is no counterfeiting its tuntamount and therefore Treason as is adjudged in 2. Henry 4. fo 25. and by the opinion of Stamford If machination or plotting a warre be not within that clause of the Statute of levying warre yet it s within the first of compassing the death of the King as that which necessarily tends to the destruction both of the King and of the people upon whose safety and protection he is to engage himselfe That this is Treason hath beene adjudged both after the Statutes of the first of Henry the fourth Chapter the tenth the first of Queene Mary the first Chapter so much insisted upon on the other side In the third yeare of King Henry the fourth one Balshall comming from London found one Barnard at plough in the Parish of Ofley in the County of Hertford Bernard asked Balshall what newes he told him the newes was That King Richard the second was alive in Scotland which was false for he was then dead and that by Midsomer next he would come into England Bernard asked him what was best to be done Balshall answered get men and goe to King Richard In Michaelmas Tearme in the third yeare of Henry the fourth in the Kings Bench rot 4. this advise of warre adjudged Treason In Queene Maries time Sir Nicholas Throckmorton conspired with Sir Thomas Wyat to levy warre within this Realme for alteration in Religion he joyned not with him in the execution This Conspiracy alone declared to be Treason by the Judges This was after the Statute of the first of Queene Mary so much insisted upon That Parliament ended in October this opinion was delivered the Easter-Tearme after and is reported by Justice Dyer fo 98. It 's true Sir Thomas Wyat afterwards did levy warre Sir Nicholas Throgmorton hee onely conspired this adjudged Treason Storie in Queene Elizabeths time practised with Forreiners to levy warre within the Kingdome nothing done in pursuance of the practise The intent without any adhering to Enemies of the Queene or other cause adjudged to be Treason and he executed thereupon It 's true my Lords that yeare 13. Elizabeth by Act of Parliament it 's made Treason

here in the Kings bench that was in Trinity tearme in the three-and-thirtie yeare of Henry the eight this was before the making of that Statute Obj. To this againe will bee said that it was for treason by the Lawes and Statutes of England but this is not for anything that 's treason by the Law of England but by an Irish Statute So that the question is onely whether your Lordships in Parliament heere have cognizance of an offence made treason by an Irish Statute in the ordinary way of judicature without bill for so is the present question For the clearing of this I shall propound two things to your Lordships consideration Whether the rule for expounding the Irish Statutes and customes bee one and the same in England as in Ireland That being admitted whether the Parliaments in England have cognizance or jurisdiction of things there done in respect of the place because the Kings writ runnes not there For the first if in respect of the place the Parliament here hath cognizance there And secondly if the rules for expounding the Irish Statutes and Customes bee the same here as there this exception as I humbly conceive must fall away In England there is the common law the Statutes the acts of Parliament and customes peculiar to certaine places differing from the common law if any question arise concerning either a custome or an act of Parliament the common law of England the first the primative and the generall law that 's the rule and expositour of them and of their severall extents it is so heere it is so in Ireland the common law of England is the common law of Ireland likewise the same here and there in all the parts of it It was introduced into Ireland by King John and afterwards by King Harry the third by act of Parliament held in England as appeares by the pattent Rolls of the 30. yeare of King Henry the third the first membrana The words are Quia pro communi utilitate terrae Hiberniae unitate terrarum Regis Rex vult de communi consilio Regis provisum est quod omnes leges consuetudines quae in regno Angliae tenentur in Hibernia teneantur eadem terra eisdem legibus subjaceat per easdem regatur sicut Dominus Johannes Rex cum ultimo esset in Hibernia statuit fierimandavit Quia c. Rex vult quod omnia brevia de communi Jure quae currunt in Anglia similiter currant in Hibernia sub novo sigillo Regis mandatum est Archiepiscopis c. quod pro pace tranquillitate ejusdem terrae per casdem leges eos regi deduci permittant ea 〈◊〉 omnibus sequantur In cujus c. Teste Rege apud Woodstock decimo none die Septembris Here 's an union of both Kingdomes and that by act of Parliament and the same Lawes to bee used here as there in omnibus My Lords That nothing might bee left here for an exception that is that in treasons felonies and other capitall offences concerning life the Irish lawes are not the same as here Therefore it is enacted in a Parliament held in England in the fourteenth yeere of Edward the second it is not in print neither but is in the Parliament book That the Laws concerning life and member shall be the same in Ireland as in England And that no exception might yet remaine in a Parliament held in England the fifth yeere of Edward the third It is enacted quod una eadem Lex fiat tam Hibernicis quam Anglicis This Act is enrolled in the Patent rolls of the fifth yeere of Edward the third part 1. memb 35. The Irish therefore receiving their Lawes from hence they send their Students at Law to the Innes of Courts in England where they receive their degree and of them and of the common Lawyers of this Kingdome are the Judges made My Lords The petitions have been many from Ireland to send from hence some Judges more learned in the Lawes then those they had there It hath been frequent in cases of difficulty there to send sometimes to the Parliament here sometimes to the King by advice from the Judges here to send them resolutions of their doubts Amongst many I 'll cite your Lordships onely one because it is in a case of Treason upon an Irish Statute and therefore full to this point By a Statute there made in the fifth yeere of Edward the fourth there is provision made for such as upon suggestions are committed to prison for Treason that the party committed if he can procure 24. Compurgators shall be bailed and let out of prison Two Citizens of Dublin were by a grand Jury presented to have committed Treason They desired the benefit of this Statute that they might bee let out of prison upon tender of their Compurgators The words of the Statute of the fifth yeere of Edward the fourth in Ireland being obscure the Judges there not being satisfied what to doe sent the case over to the Queene desired the opinion of the Judges here which was done accordingly The Judges here sent over their opinion which I have out of the Booke of Justice Anderson one of the Judges consulted withall The Judges here delivered opinion upon an Irish Statute in case of Treason If it bee objected That in this case the Judges here did not judge upon the party their opinions were onely ad informandum conscientiam of the Judges in Ireland that the judgement belonged to the Judges there My Lords with submission this and the other Authorities prove that for which they were cited that is That no absurdity no failer of Justice would ensue if this great Judicatory should judge of Treason so made by an Irish Statute The common Law the rule of Judging upon an Irish Statute the pleas of the Crowne for things of life and death are the same here and there This is all that hath yet been offered For the second point That England hath no power of Judicature for things done in Ireland My Lords the constant practice of all ages proves the contrary Writs of errour in Pleas of the Crowne as well as in civill causes have in all Kings reignes beene brought here even in the inferiour Courts of Westminster Hall upon judgements given in the Courts of Ireland The practice is so frequent so well known as that I shall cite none of them to your Lordships no president will I beleeve bee produced to your Lordships that ever the case was remanded back againe into Ireland because the question rose upon an Irish Statute or custome But it will be said That writs of errour are only upon a failer of justice in Ireland and that suits cannot originally be commenced here for things done in Ireland because the Kings writ runs not in Ireland This might bee a good plea in the Kings Bench and inferiour Courts at Westminster Hall the question is whether it bee so in Parliament

Shire grounds were within the English pale and ad fidem legem Angliae the Irish that were without the pale were enemies alwayes either in open act of hostility or upon leagues and hostages given for securing the peace and therefore as heere in England wee had our marches upon the frontiers in Scotland and Wales so were there Marches betweene the English and Irish pale where the inhabitants held their Landes by this tenure to defend the Country against the Irish as appeares in the close Rolls of the Tower in the 20. yeare of Edward the third membrana 15. on the backside and in an Irish Parliament held the 42. yeare of Edward the third It s declared that the English pale was almost destroyed by the Irish enemies and that there was no way to prevent the danger but onely that the owners reside upon their Landes for defence and that absence should bee a forfeiture this act of Parliament in a great counsell heere was affirmed as appeares in the close Roll the 22. yeare of Edward the third membrana 20. dorse Afterwards as appeares in the Statute of the eight-and-twenty yeare of Henry the 6. in Ireland this hostility continued betweene the English marches and the Irish enemies who by reason there was no difference betweene the English marches and them in their apparell did daily not being known to the English destroy the English within the pale Therefore it s enacted that every Englishman shall shave the haire of his upper lip for distinction sake This hostility continued till the tenth yeare of Henry the seaventh as appeares by the Statute of the tenth of Henry the seaventh the seaventeenth Chapter and so successively downewards till the making of this very Statute of the eleaventh yeare of Queene Elizabeth as appeares fully in the ninth Chapter Nay immediatly before and at the time of the making of this Statute there was not onely emnity betweene those of the Shire grounds that is the English and Irish pale but open Warre and Acts of hostility as appeares by History of no lesse authority then that Statute it selfe for in the first Chapter of this Statute is the Attainder of Shane O Neale who had made open Warre was slaine in open Warre It s there declared that hee had gotten by force all the North of Ireland for an hundred and twenty miles in length and above a 100. in bredth that he had mastered diverse places within the English pale when the flame of this warre by his death immediatly before this Statute was spent yet the fire brands were not all quenched for the rebellion was continued by John Fitz. Gerard called the white Knight and Thomas Queverford this appeares by the Statute of the thirteenth yeare of Queene Elizabeth in Ireland but two yeares after this of the eleaventh yeare of Queene Elizabeth where they are attainted of high treason for levying Warre this eleaventh yeare wherein this Statute was made So that my Lords immediatly before and at the time of the making of this Statute there being Warre betweene those of the Shire grounds mentioned in this Statute and the Irish the concluding of Warre and Acts offensive and invasive there mentioned can bee intended against no others but the Irish enemies Againe the words of the Statute are no Captaine shall assemble the people of the Shire grounds to conclude of peace or warre is it to bee presumed that those of the Shire grounds will conclude of Warre against themselves nor saith the Statute shall carry those of the Shire grounds to doe any Acts invasive by the construction which is made on the other side they must bee carried to fight against themselves Lastly the words are as Captaine none shall assume the name or authority of a Captaine or as a Captaine shall gather the people together or as a Captaine leade them The offence is not in the matter but in the manner If the acts offensive were against the Kings good subjects those that went under command were punishable as well as the Commanders but in respect the Souldiers knew the service to be good in it selfe being against the enemies and that it was not for them to dispute the authority of their commanders the penalty of a 100. pounds is laid onely upon him that as Captaine shall assume this power without warrant the people commanded are not within the Statute My Lords the logicke whereupon this argument hath beene framed stands thus because the Statute of the eleaventh yeare of Queene Elizabeth inflicts a penalty of a 100. pound and no more upon any man that as a Captaine without warrant and upon his owne head shall conclude of or make Warre against the Kings enemies therefore the Statute of the 18. yeare of Henry the sixt is repealed which makes it treason to lay Souldiers upon or to levy warre against the Kings good people But my Lords observation hath bin made upon other words of this statute that is that without licence of the deputy these things cannot bee done This shewes that the deputy is within none of these Statutes My Lords this Argument stands upon the same reason with the former because hee hath the ordering of the Army of Ireland for the defence of the people and may give warrant to the Officers of the Army upon eminent occasions of invasion to resist or prosecute the enemy because of the danger that else might ensue forthwith by staying for a warrant from his Majesty out of England Therefore it is no treason in the Deputy to imploy the Army in Ireland whensoever hee pleaseth for the subversion of the Kings good people and of the lawes My Lords the Statute of the tenth yeare of Henry the seaventh the seaventeenth Chapter touched upon for this purpose cleares the busines in both points for there it is declared that none ought to make warre upon the Irish rebells and enemies without warrant from the Lieutenant the forfeiture a hundred pounds as here the Statute is the same with this and might as well have beene cited for repealing the Statute of the eighteenth yeare of Henry the sixt as this of the eleaventh yeare of Queene Elizabeth but if this had beene insisted upon it would have expounded the other two cleare against him Obj. > My Lords it hath beene further said although the statute bee in force and there be a treason within it yet the Parliament hath no jurisdiction the treasons are committed in Ireland therefore not triable here Answ My Lords Sir John Perrot his predecessors in the 24. yeare of Queene Elizabeth was tried in the Kings bench for treason done in Ireland when hee was Deputy and Orucke in the 33. yeare of Queene Elizabeth judged heere for treason done in Ireland Obj. But it will bee said these trialls were after the Statute of the foure-and-thirtieth yeare of Henry the eight which enacts that treasons beyond sea may bee tried in England Answ My Lords his predecessor my Lord Gray was tried and adjudged