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A40488 A friendly debate between Dr. Kingsman, a dissatisfied clergy-man, and Gratianus Trimmer, a neighbour minister concerning the late thanksgiving-day, the Prince's desent [sic] into England, the nobility and gentries joining with him, the acts of the honourable convention, the nature of our English government, the secret league with France, the oaths of allegiance and supremacy, &c. : with some considerations on Bishop Sanderson and Dr. Falkner about monarchy, oaths, &c. ... / by a minister of the Church of England. Kingsman, Dr.; Minister of the Church of England.; Trimmer, Gratianus. 1689 (1689) Wing F2218; ESTC R18348 69,303 83

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and Renowned Fleta hath left as his Judgment and Law l. 1. c. 17. S. 2 3. Nec à Regnando dicitur sed a benè regendo nomen assumitur Rex verò dum benè regit Tyrannus dum populum suâ violatâ apprimitur dominatione Ad hoc namque electus est ut justitiam pariter Vniversis sibi subditis faciat exhibere c. And Sect. 14. Ad haec enim Creatus est Rex Electus ut justiciam faciat Vniversis c. Florentius Wigorniensis that old Historian relates That Edgar the First who united England into one Kingdom was Electus ab omni Anglorum Populo of all the People of England Edit 4º p. 355. as he was before chosen of the Mercians and Northumbrians who deserted King Edwin because he acted foolishly in the Government committed to him p. 354. After the decease of Edgar there arose a great Dissention among the chief Men of the Kingdom about the Election of a King for some Elected Edward his Son and others Elected his Brother Ethelred p. 361. And to save the labour of looking further you may see how the Succession went see in a brief History of the Succession printed the other Day 3. Government grew by degrees into Kingdoms and began in Families encreased into Vicinities Towns Cities Common-Wealths and Kingdoms And that Form of Government was best which best agreed with the People and was most conducive to the Publick Benefit Hear what the Admired and Learned Mr. Hooker thought Book I. of Eccles Policy p. 27 29. The Case of Man's Nature standing as it doth some kind of Regiment the Law of Nature doth require yet the Kinds thereof being many Nature tieth not to any One but leaveth the Choice as a thing Arbitrary This is contrary to them that set up Monarchy and Absolute too upon the Foundation of the Law of Nature 4. As to the derided Contract and Consent of the People where and by whom and abundance of Questions about it I conceive the words of the same Learned Hooker may ballance those of Bishop Saunderson That which we spake before concerning the Power of Government must be here applied to the Power of making Laws to command whole politick Societies of Men belongeth so properly unto the same intire Societies of Men that for any Prince or Potentate of what kind soever upon Earth to exercise the same of himself and not either by express Commission immediately and personally received from God or else by Authority derived at first from their Consent upon whose Persons they impose Laws it is no better than meer Tyranny Laws they are not therefore which publick Approbation hath not made so But Approbation not only they give who personally declare their Consent by Voice Sign or Act but also when others do it in their Names by Right at least originally derived from them As in Parliaments Councils and the like Assemblies B. 1. p. 28. The many of Bishop Saunderson's Questions may easily be answered by destroying his Supposition That there was a great number of People as big suppose as a Kingdom without Government and that these all must in all respects be equal or else they may be injured by some who contract and all present to chuse their Governor and give him Power to rule according to contract * See the same Supposition handsomly flourish'd by Dr. Fern. Consc satisfied p. 9. It is no Matter by whom or when the first Contract was made we are sure it was by the Light of Nature or Reason in the most convenient way Let us see how it is now and hath been of a long time Whereas we read in our Histories that sometimes the Nobles sometimes Nobles and Prelats sometimes the Heads of the Commons agreed with their King upon Conditions to govern But that is the most perfect way which is by the three Estates met in Parliament or Convention 5. That there were and are Contracts between the Kings of England and the People or the Community made by their Representatives is not void of sufficient Proof Take a few The People of England are called the King's Liege People because they are obliged to him And the King is also called the Liege King for the same Reason because he is bound by Contract or Covenant to them Dicuntin utrique ligii Princeps nempe ligius Dominus subdits verb Populus ligius homines ligii Ligia foedus Eigii igitus liges idem sunt quod ligati Spelm. Gloss Many Instances might be produced of Contracts between our Ancient Kings and the People of England Two shall suffice When Suanus tyrannized over the Land he exacted a huge Tribute of St. Edmunds-Bury threatned to burn it if he had it not paid him and giving out opprobious Language against that St. Edmund at Gainsburrough where he held a General Plea died there in great Agony and Fear upon the appearance of St. Edmund coming against him The Danish Fleet chose his Son Canutus to be King. At majores Natu totius Angliae The Elders or Eldermen of all England sent Messengers with one consent to Ethelred King of England then in Normandy saying That they loved and would love none more than Him their natural Lord If he would more rightly govern or more mildly handle them than he had before Which when he heard he directed his Son Edward with Embassadors to them and he in most friendly manner saluted the Greater and the Lesser of his Nation Promising That he would be to them a mild and devoted Lord that he would consent to their Will in all Things acquiesce in their Counsels that he would pardon what soever was reproachfully and disgracefully said of him or his or done contrary to him and his s● omnes unanimiter c. if all would unanimously and without treachery agree to receive him into the Kingdom All of them did answer Courteously or freely to these things Afterwards a full Accord or Friendship is confirmed on both sides Verbis Pacto both by Words and Contract Florentius Wigerniensis p. 381. The other Instance I give out of the same Historian is omni Exceptione major it is of William the first commonly called the Conqueror William came to London with his whole Army ut ibi in Regem sublimaretur that he might be advanced to be King and was Consecrated in an honourable manner Promising first as Aldred the Archbishop of York required or exacted of him before the Altar of St. Peter by Oath before the Clergy and People That he would defend the Holy Churches of God and their Rectors and govern all the People subject to Him justly and with Regal Care and Providence Appoint or ordain and hold Right Law and forbid Rapines and unjust Judgments utterly or altogether p. 431. But that which goes beyond all particular Instances is the Coronation Oath K. But concerning the Coronation Oath I am of the Opinion of Rev. Dr. Falkner Christian Loyalty B. 2. c. 2. p. 423. Let us
time grow weary of the Theocracy God's Government over them and desire to be governed like other Nations yet that King that should govern them was to be bound to observe the Law in the Statute-Book of God Deut. 17. from the 15th to the 20th Verse No one Man since the Fall was Wise or Righteous or Powerful enough to have the absolute and Arbitrary Rule of any people And I suppose Tyranny is not an Ordinance of God but a Corruption of Government K. But consider what the learned judicious and Excellent Writer of our Church Bp. Saunderson considered Bishop Saunderson saith of this Preface before Arch-Bishop Usher's Treatise of Power communicated by God to the Prince Sect. 12. T. I have considered it and have wondred to read these words True it is that for more ease of Governours and better satisfaction of the People in securing their Properties preserving Peace among them and doing Justice the absolute and unlimited Soveraignty which Princes have by the Ordinance of God hath at all Times and in all Nations been diversly limitted and bounded in the ordinary Exercise thereof by such Laws and Customs as the Supreme Governours themselves have consented unto and allowed As with us in England c. Now Doctor with all due respect to you and that great Writer I offer you these Reflections 1. He affirms that the absolute and unlimited Soveraignty which Princes have by the Ordinance of God c. if they have an unlimited Soveraignty which I acknowledge they must needs have if it be absolute by the Ordinance of God how dare they consent to limit it which is to change the Ordinance of God Soveraignty of the King of England limited 2. As in England c. then I say the Soveraignty of the King of England is bounded by Laws and Customs and therefore not absolute and unlimited 3. Tho their Soveraignty be limited by their own Consent it is limited after their Consent is given 4. It is limited by their own Consent as all other Statute-Laws are made by their Consent and what they consent to is past by the Consent of the Lords and Commons in Parliament first Sir Orlando Bridgman afterwards Lord Keeper in his charge to the Grand-Jury of Middlesex at the Trial of the Regicides took pains to declare our Government pag. 10. He opens the Power of our Kings from the Titles that are given them in Law-Books and most upon the Title Imperial Crown subject to God and to no other Power What is an Imperial Crown it is that which as to the Coercive part is subject to no Man under God humane Tribunal or Judicature whatsoever pag. 11 12. God forbid I should intend any Absolute Government by this And pag. 68. Yet let me tell you there is that excellent ☜ temperament in our Laws that for all this the King cannot rule but by his Laws pag. 12. Tho this is an absolute Monarchy yet this is so far from infringing the Peoples Rights that the People as to their Properties Liberties and Lives have as great a Priviledge as the King. pag. 13. K. But read further and then you will see that when he saith We have as great Liberties as any People have in Christendom in the World he adds But let us own them where they are due We owe them to the Concessions of our Princes Our Princes have granted them and the King now He in them hath granted them likewise Therefore the King is the Fountain of all the Liberties of the People they are his Gracious Concessions T. That will not help you to infer that the Kings of England are absolute unlimited Soveraigns There are no People in the world give greater honour to their Kings than we of England as the learned Sir Thomas Smith Privy Councellor to Queen Elizabeth and Embassador in France when he wrote his Book De Repub. Anglorum pag. 47. Their way of asking any thing in Parliament tho they have right to the thing is by way of Petitition and as Subjects and do acknowledge all the good Acts to be the Gracious Acts of the King. But there are two sorts of Concessions and Grants 1. Such as are Concessions of meer Grace of such Benefits as the Commons have no right to Claim And 2. There are Concessions of Right and signify no more than the King doth Consent to such Bills as are presented by the Lords and Commons and so all our Rights and Properties secured by Law are Concessions And all those Concessions as Grants and Charters that are more Acts of Grace than some others are are for some publick Benefit and redound to the King's Honour Profit or Service And such Concessions as these flow from Prerogative which Prerogative as all Legal Prerogatives are the King by Law. There are mutual Acts of Kindness between a good King and his Subjects And the Commonwealth is happy when such mutual demonstrations of Love Grace and Duty pass between them But there are Concessions also made to the King by his Subjects in Parliament which the King cannot have but by the free Act of his Subjects as Subsides and Taxes And because the Subjects grant them to the King when they see it reasonable it is manifest I conceive Will you suffer me hence to infer the Parliament is Supreme above the King because they make these Concessions that the People have Rights and Properties and Liberties of their own And many of these they come to by Purchase and not Royal Donations or by an Equivalence of some Bencht to the King. Read if you please the learned Mr Lawson a good Civilian and Politician as well as Divine in his Answer to Hobs c. 8. That learned and ingenious Gentleman Sir Dudley Diggs spake to the Lords in a Conference Anno 1628. Be pleased to Know then that it is an undoubted fundamental point of this so ancient Common Law of which he said Caput inter Nubila condit of England that the Subject hath a true Property in his Goods and Possessions which doth preserve as sacred that Meum and Tuum that is the Nurse of Industry the Mother of Courage and without which there can be no Justice of which Meum and Tuum is the proper Object Ephemeris Parliamentaris pag. 95. The Petition so much debated in that Parliament was the Petition of Right The King in his Answer to the whole Parliament spake this Golden Sentence And I assure you my Maxim is That the Peoples Liberties strengthen the King's Prerogative and the Kings Prerogative is to defend the Peoples Liberties pag. 204. Here 's enough of this K. The People have Rights But Government being before Property Property doth proceed from the Soveraign who grants and determins it For as Bishop Saunderson asserts Sect. 18. of the Preface It is certain that as soon as Adam was created God gave him to be an Universal Monarch and the Government also of all the inferior World and of all the Men that after
should be born so long as he lived so as whatsoever Property any other person had or could have in any part of the World they held it all of Him. So after the Flood whatsoever Property or Share in the Government over any part of the World any of his Sons had they had it by his sole Allotment and Authority without waiting for Election or Consent or entring into any Articles or Capitulations with the People that were to be governed by them c. T. Is the Argument Good from Adam before the Fall to the Government after the Fall Is the Argument good from Adam the Common Father or Noah a Common Father to the State of the World distinguished and divided in the several Kingdoms and Territories Was Adam's Monarchy Hereditary to his eldest Son next in succession Did Cain succeed him in the Universal Monarchy Or did Cain forfeit Did Adam allot him the land of Nod and so it descended to the next Brother To be brief with you 1. When Soveraign Princes are Nature Fathers and give Portions to their Subject as to their Children then let them be as Great in their Dominions as Adam or as Noah was provided they be kind and righteous as they were 2. The Law then in Being and Force was the Law of Nature which established Property in the 8th Commandment And Judgment which is a Branch of Government or of Civil Power doth suppose Property as its Object or Matter about which it is conversant And there could be no actual Exercise of the judicial Port of Power and Government but there was a Property to be judged of K. How far the King of England is supreme But you cannot but say that the King of England is the onely supreme Governour and Monarch and if a Monarch the Supremacy is in Him alone for a Co-ordination of Power and a mixt Monarchy are absurd contradictory Notions As you may see in the Reverend Bishop Sanderson Sect 14. Preface We are bound by our Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance to bear Faith and true Allegiance to the King and his Heirs and Successors and to assist and defend all Jurisdictions c. Granted or belonging to him c. I pray read the Oaths And then we are bound by the Oath of the 14. of Charles the second not to take Arms against the King c. upon any pretence whatsoever c. And therefore surely such Actions and Alterations as we know and see of late are utterly unlawful and therefore I cannot joyn in the Thanksgiving for our Deliverance c. T. Sir You put me upon a necessity of speaking what otherwise I should be as unwilling to discourse of as any other Man. But conceiving my self obliged in Conscience and Religion to acknowledge our wonderful Deliverance I shall lay before you what I have learnt in these great matters I know Sir. O. Bridgman did urge the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy upon the Regicides and all that took Arms against the King in the Trial of Mr. Scroop pag. 67 68. What is the Oath of Allegiance is it not that you will defend the King his Crown c. against all Persons whatsoever It was not onely against the Pope Vnder favour that word Or otherwise doth there signify some other way or means not named by which the Pope might act against the King. as some would have it but the word is or Otherwise They broke the Oath of Supremacy which was that the King was the supreme Governour c. There is saith he a difference between some Crowns and Imperial Crowns An Imperial Crown is that which was not to be touched by any person We do not speak of the Absolute Power of the King pag. 68. The Reverend Bishop Sanderson builds his strong Tower for defence of the King's Soveraignty upon the words of the Oath of Supremacy That the King's Highness is the onely Supreme Governour of this Realm Sect. 14. The quickest way to bring our discourse to an issue is to lay down what I think very considerable in this matter 1. We acknowledge the King or Queen of England to be the onely supreme Governour within his Dominions But the Kings and Queens of England had no more Power given or attributed to them by these Oaths or the Statutes enjoyning them than they had before these Declarations So Queen Elizabeth declared in her Injunction 1559. Note this An Admonition to simple men deceived by the malitious in the Collection of Doctor Sparrow pag. 81. The Queens Majesty c. would that all her loving Subjects though understand that nothing was is or shall be meant or intended by the same Oath to have any other Duty Allegiance or Bond required by the same Oath than was acknowledged to be due to the most Noble Kings of famous Memory King Henry the 8th or Edward the 6. For certainly her Majesty neither doth nor ever will challenge any Authority than what was challenedg and lately used by the said Noble Kings of famous Memory King Henry the 8th or Edward the 6th which is and was of ancient time due to the Imperial Crown of this Realm That is under God to have the Soveraignty and Rule over all manner of Persons born within these her Realms Dominions and Countreys of what estate either Ecclesiastical or Temporal soever they be so as no other forreign Power shall or ought to have any Superiority over them 2. You heard what Sir Orlando Bridgman understood by that Great Title of Imperial Crown Now take notice of another Interpretation of it from Queen Elizabeth in that Admonition now quoted Imperial Crown That under God and not under the Pope or any foreign Prince or Potentate so as no other foreign Power shall or ought to have any Superiority over them And it is rational to conceive that such as the King or Monarch is So saith Lord Keeper Bridgman in the Book quoted such is his Crown The King of England is not an Absolute King but in contradistinction to all foreign Princes and Powers none of whom hath any power over him he is subject to none therefore the Title of Imperial Crown adds nothing of Real power to the King but a glorious Epithet signifying that he holds not his Crown of any other forreign Prince or Power So is the Monarchy of England described by that famous Counsellour Sir Thomas Smith At the last the Realm of England grew into one Monarchy Neither were any one of those Kings neither he who first had all took any Investiture at the hand of the Emperor of Rome or of any other superior or foreign Prince but held of God to Himself and by his Sword his People and Crown acknowledging no Prince on Earth his superior and so it is kept and holden at this day De Repub. Anglorum c. 9 Sect. I. And when our Writers speak of the Independency of the Kings of England in opposition to the Pope and his Usurpation they speak of
which was disputable before and undetermin'd was declared to be in the King the Edg of the Sword was turned against a Protestant State to swallow it up if they could is not forgotten And how we were opprest with Royal Aids and vast Paiments to maintain that Sword is felt to this day If the King alone hath the Power of the Sword the Commons of England in Parliament have the Power of the Purse the Sinews of War and Peace as King Ch. I. acknowledged VVhitlock's Memorials Anno 1642. And at the Treaty at Uxbridg 1644 p. 124. Answ to the xix Propos And as long as our Kings advise with their Parliaments about War and Peace as they were wont to do as that Learned Sir Robert Cotton proves in his Treatise on that Argument Anno. 1621. it must be our Fault and God's Judgment upon us if the Sword do hurt us But how God hath vouchsafed us that Mercy in disposing of the Crown and Sword that we shall not fear the Sword nor grudg to pray Tribute to them that are the Ministers of God for Good. 4. All that the worthy Doctor speaks of Fanatick Notions and Assertions and of the War between the King and Parliament belongs not to this present Case any further than the Common Reason of both is concerned in them 5. Those Cases in which both Grotius and Barclay affirm that a King may be resisted are with the Doctor but imaginary Cases which for the ill Consequences of Misunderstanding them are not to be supposed 6. He at large shews what security the People of England have for their Liberties and Religion so that they need not fear any Extremities to drive them to take up Arms. 7. There is something that comes near our Case in p. 517. First That the Agreement of the whole Body of the People or the chief and greater part thereof can give no sufficient Authority for such an enterprise as taking Arms against the Soveraign when oppressed by him because saith he the whole Community are Subjects as well as the particular Persons thereof And with especial respect to this Kingdom I have observed that the Laws declare it unlawful for the two Houses of Parliament though jointly to take Arms against the King. Here are some Mistakes delivered by the worthy Doctor What a Community is 1. He saith that the Community are Subjects A Community as such is the Subject of a Common-Wealth in a state of Freedom not formed into a Government The Majestas Realis is in the Community and the Community is one Person in Fiction of Law and is Persona conjuncta as the Civilians speak So Reverend Mr. Lawson Answer to Hobs p. 21. Polit. Sacra Civilis A Community is the Matter of a Common-Wealth c. 15 206. A Community contains in it virtually all the Forms and Degrees of Government and Governours that arise out of it A Community as such is no Subject But if the Doctor mean by a Community all the Common People subjected by their own Consent to a Soveraign or Governor then they are Subjects indeed as contradistinguished from Superiors But if all or the greater part of the People by which I do not understand the Vulgar Peers and Commons perceive the Constitution to be in apparent hazard of being destroyed what they act in the necessary defence of the Government and Fundamental Laws and for their preservation they do not act as meer Subjects but as one Party in Covenant and Contract with him who threatneth to bring them to Confusion by destroying their Government 2. It doth not follow that because both Houses cannot take Arms against the Soveraign therefore the whole People or the greatest part of the People among whom we include the wisest and the best Part and the Nobility of all Degrees cannot in such a Case as ours lately was take Arms For tho a Parliament be entrusted to act for the People in those Affairs to which they are called and summoned yet not with all the Rights and Liberties of the People But now here is an extraordinary Convention and the Representatives of the Commons in it have an extraordinary Trust even that of forming us again and settling us upon the best Foundation And for this Reason though this Convention wanted the usual Call by the King 's Writ it is one of the greatest Conventions that ever was and its Acts of greater Authority in the extent of it than any ordinary Parliament and therefore the People of England are concluded by them in what they do The Nation was generally sensible of approaching Ruin they knew the King had left his Government and willingly and freely elected their Representatives to do the best in their Wisdom for the Kingdom 's good And the Constitution and Government is not changed only the Persons of our Supreme Governors 3. Parliaments and their Powers have been much decried and debased especially of late Years But though every Individual be a Subject and the whole Body stile themselves the King's Subjects yet as a Parliament they have a part in the Legislation and therefore an essential part of Dominion in them and as making Laws they are above themselves as obeying Laws 8. The Doctor instanceth in one Case p. 542. Whether if a Supreme Governor should according to his own Pleasure and contrary to the established Laws and his Subjects Property actually engage upon the destroying and ruining a considerable part of his People they might not defend themselves by Arms yet this is packt up among Notions and not to be supposed But p. 544. If ever any such strange Case as is proposed should happen in the World I confess it would have its great Difficulties and quotes Grotius that in this ultimo necessitatis praesidio as the last Refuge Defence is not to be condemned provided the Care of the Common Good be preserved And if this be true it must be upon this Ground that such attempts of ruining do ipso facto exclude a disclaiming the governing those Persons as Subjects and consequently of being their Prince or King. And then the Expressions of our Publick Declaration and Acknowledgment would still be secured that it is not lawful upon any Pretence whatsoever to take Arms against the King. That is at last the Doctor confesseth such a King to be no King. Whether this be not the Case or much like to that we were in I refer it to all that know the Motions of the late King. Did he not act to the destruction of Property He might as justly have filled all our Churches with Popish Priests yea and our Houses with Inhabitants as some Colledges in the Universities Did he not go as far and as fast as he could to destroy our Religion which is our dearest Property And what would have become of our Liberties if a pack'd Parliament could have been made and the Popish Lords have sate in the House of Lords And what of our Persons and Lives if we had not
been delivered by an extraordinary Providence And I will add but this under this Head That all the Gentlemen that I have discoursed with who took up Arms profess they would never have taken Arms against the King ruling by Law as he was bound to do but look'd upon him as no King i. e. no Legal King of England in the exercise of his Power and that there was no other way left for them to preserve themselves our Laws and Religion K. But this doth still stick with me that we declared or swore That it was unlawful to take up Arms upon any Pretence whatsoever therefore not upon this Pretence or for this Cause or any other real or Imaginary either this or any that can be imagined possible T. The evil Design of framing that Oath to bring the Nation tamely under Arbitrary Power and Popery I must say less upon this Head than I have to say I am extreamly deceived 1. If Popery was not design'd to be either made the topping Profession of the Nation or so far countenanced and upheld that it would be in a fair way to be restored as the Religion of the Court and Country when that Act was made 2. This could never be but by the Arbitrary Power of the King. 3. To set up and maintain that the sole Power of the Militia is put into the Hand of the King. 4. The War of the Parliament against the King is made Rebellion by Law. 5. All those things had been insufficient to serve the Design of introducing Popery which could not come in but by Arbitrary Power unless an Oath be devised and imposed to tie the Hearts and Hands of the Subject from thinking to act or acting against the Armed Force of Arbitrary Power And lastly no word was large enough to comprehend all possible Causes or Reasons of Opposition but whatsoever Do the Pope's Creatures what they they will we are tied up by upon any Pretence whatsoever to look upon our Miseries coming on and passively to lie down at the Feet of Popish Majesty i. e. cruel Tyranny and thereby become Vassals to the Triple Crown The Sense of the Declaration of Non-resistance Sir I have subscribed the Declaration of my Consent to that which was required as a formal Oath of all Officers Civil and Military thinking it was but Reason and Duty to give the King as a lawful Governor security in his Throne But the sense I had of it was to this purpose I do believe it is not lawful upon any Pretence whatsoever or from any Cause or Reason pretended for Subjects to take Arms against the King my lawful Soveraign for to such a King we are subjected and that I do abhor that traiterous Position of taking Arms by his Authority against his Person or against those that are legally commissioned by him See if you please an Enquiry into the Oath required of all the Non-Con by an Act made at Oxford by that wise and worthy Man Mr John Corbet all other Commissions that are not legal being really none of the Commissions of the King of England who is bound to govern according to Law in the legal pursuance of legal Commissions and that I will not at any time endeavour any alteration of Government either in Church or State by any unlawful ways And more than this no King that means the good of his Subjects can desire and this a peaceable Subject may conscientiously give if the King require it for his Satisfaction But now if a King act contrary to the Laws not by a particular Act or Acts only by which many private Subjects are injured or opprest but to the changing the Fundamental Government and overturning it then when the Cause is not a pretended Cause framed by Jealousy or uncharitable Suspitions of the King and his Ministers whether the Body and Majority of the Kingdom may not in an Extremity appeal to the supreme determination of God by the Sword and vindicate the Right which they have to their Religion and Liberties is a Case wherein it appears even by Dr. Falkener that the King is no King and by Consequence the People which before were Subjects to the King while he acted as King in a legal manner are no further subject and so the Oath is not violated but stands good The word Whatsoever is intended in the largest sense and is so used in the Canons of 1640. and the Writings of several Men When a King goes about to set up a new Form of Government contrary to the Rights of the People the People as a Party in Contract and Covenant and still willing to perform their part take Arms as a Party to maintain their Rights which are invaded and do not rebel as Subjects So that the People of England are considerable as a Party in a legal Contract with the King as Subjects as well as Dr. Ealkener But then I ask Whether the King of England may act and do beyond and contrary to the Laws of his Government not in some particular Instances to the particular Injury of some private Persons but against the Foundations of the Government and Interest Peace Welfare Property Liberty and Safety of the whole Protestant and greatest part of his Subjects be to be deemed the lawful King of England as he was or would be held and reputed to be if he ruled as a sworn King of England And then Whether the People of England are by the Laws subjected to an Arbitrary Jesuited King or to a Regular and Regulated King Whether the Subjects of England are bound to whatsoever a King pleaseth to do set up and command or to those things only which are commanded them by Law If the Laws be the Rule and Measure of their Obedience and those Laws no other than what were made by their own implied Consents then the Subjects of England have not in this Extraordinary Action broken the Bonds of their Subjection but acted for their own Preservation as a People that were never bound to an Arbitrary Absolute King. If the Parliament that enacted that Law that prescribes this Oath did intend to bind all those Persons enjoined to take it to an unlimited Obedience to all manner of Arbitrary Commissions and Commands whatsoever of the King then they allowed to the King scope enough to run out into all Excess of Arbitrariness and did by that betray the Kingdom to the Will of a King be he Papist or Tyrant Did they intend to bind themselves and their Posterity from taking Arms even when a King shall go about to change the Legal Religion and change the Government If they did not then in this Case the Oath bindeth not That they did not seems plain by the Oath which was for the preservation of the Government and against the alteration of it But this we cannot think to be in their Minds though there was a great number in Favour and Pension to serve the secret Designs of the Court
K. But the Church of England hath been always Loyal and the Friends of the Church of England T. And may they be so now to our most wise and gracious King William and Queen Mary I do not very well know Doctor what Church of England you mean for there have been several Alterations in it since reformed nor who you take to be the Friends of the Church of England If you mean such as the Convocation was 1640 as Dr. Falkener seems to mean B. 2. p. 338. or the Compilers of the Homilies and their Friends as he also seems to mean wit the Judgment of the University of Oxford supposed to be written by Bishop Saunderson then all these Friends will not well agree together I do take a great number of the Clergy in 1640 to be of the new fashion'd Church that some had been long a making an were near to finish Others were true Friends to the Reformation as at first old-fashion'd true Friends to the Churches Purity and Peace upon equal Terms Give me leave to present to you good Doctor some of their Sentiments And I shall shew you what the Old Friends of the Church of England of the first Edition have said to these Matters in debate between us And first many of your Acquaintance Doctor have spit in the Face of the Churches of Christ beyond Sea and slandered them as polluted with rebellious Doctrines and Practices But the old true Friends of the Church of England have wip'd off the Spittle and clear'd them from it They have acknowledged the Form of Government to be divers in divers Countries they have vindicated the publi●k Doctrine of the Reformed Pastors and candidly interpreted the Resistances made against their Tyrannical Persecutors and allowed Resistance by force of Arms of their Magistrates in some Cases I fear I should be too tedious in giving you Quotations at large I shall only refer you to the Writings of the undoubted Friends of the Church of England Great Assistances were sent from England by Queen Elizabeth to preserve the States of the Low Countries Sir John Fortescue in his Speech in Parliament Anno 35 of the Queen said As for the Low Countries they stood her Majesty yearly since she undertook the Defence of them in one hundred and fifty thousand Pounds The Burden of four Kingdoms hath rested upon her Majesty Sir Simon Dew's Journal of the Parliaments in Queen Elizabeth's Reign And how commonly are those Provinces termed Rebels against the King of Spain King James calls those that revolted from the King of Spain and that were forced to make Resistance for Religion in France the Saints of God Et nonnè jam Commota sunt ubique arma in Sactos qui per Galliam per Belgium sunt directa Commentatio de Antichristo printed after Bishop Abbot's B. Demonstratio Antichristi 8o. p. 477. That Learned King had not Sainted them if he had thought them Rebels See Bishop Jewel's Defence of the Apology p. 16 17. And what a great Friend was he to the Church of England See famous Bishop Bilson's another particular Friend of Hers True Difference Edit 4o. p. 512 515 518 519 520 521. Bishop Robert Abbot who wrote a Learned Book De Supremâ Regiâ Majestate and the more to be noted for that was Regius Professor of Divinity in Oxford hath a notable Passage Demonstratio Antichristi p. 150 c. c. 7. § 6. Bishop Morton's Treatise of Satisfaction hath one part called A Justification of Protestants in Case of Rebellion There are no Seditious Passages in any of these Reverend Authors But if these were not in them what would they be call'd in others I note this out of Jewel neither doth any of these meaning Luther and Melancthon teach their People to rebel against their Princes but only to defend themselves against Oppression by all lawful means as did David against Saul So do the Nobles in France at this day Then to take Arms is a lawful Means by consequence for David took Arms and the Nobles in France They themselves are best acquainted with the Laws and Constitutions of their Country p. 16. Touching the Queen of Scotland I will say nothing The Kingdoms and States of the World have sundry Agreements and Compositions The Nobles and Commons there neither drew the Sword nor attempted Force against the Prince They sought only the continuance of God's undoubted Truth and defence of their own Lives against your barbarous and cruel Invasions p. 17. See Addition out of Bishop Bilson I observe he vindicates Beza and the Protestant Divines and to our Case of late in England may be applied That which may be done by the Laws of Kingdoms and States is lawful and not rebellious as in the Civil Wars of France p. 511. The Princes in Germany may lawfully resist the Emperor and by Force reduce him to the Ancient and received Form of Government or else repel him as a Tyrant and set another in his place by the Right and Freedom of their Country p. 513. We grant it to be true that if the Laws of the Land as in some places they do warrant to depose their Governor p. 517. He quotes the Judgment of Luther when he was informed by Lawyers that the States of Germany might defend themselves against the Emperor and displace him p. 518. If a Prince should go about to subject his Kingdom to a Foreign ☜ Realm or change the Form of the Common-Wealth from Empery to Tyranny or neglect the Laws established by Common Consent of Prince and People to execute his own Pleasure In these and other Cases which might be named if the Nobles and Commons join together to defend their ancient and accustomed Liberty they may not well be accounted Rebels p. 520. In Kingdoms where Princes bear Rule by the Sword we do not mean the Prince's private Will against his Laws but his Precept derived from his Laws c. Ibid. He excuseth the Germans and Flemings and of the Scots he ☞ speaks full to our Case The Scots what have they done besides the placing the Right Heir and her own Son when the Mother fled and forsook the Realm Be these those furious Attempts and Rebellions you talk of I grant he saith our Princes are Hereditary and that Subjects are absolutely bound to obey p. 515 517. But if we are absolutely bound to obey then the King of England is an Absolute Prince which he is not over or in respect of his Subjects because he rules by Laws made by their Consent though he be absolute in respect of any Foreign State. The Passage quoted in Bishop Rob. Abbot is notable throughout I 'll onely cull out of it Hic vero politica res agitur Quid Principi juris in Subditos per Leges cujusque Reip. fundatrices promissum sit What Power is promised to the Prince over Subject● by the Fundamental Laws of every Common-wealth whether he have infinitam a boundless unlimitted Power or a
the Oaths since the late King did manifestly act contrary to the Duty of his Place But yet the words of the Oath are expresly made to him believing him to be the Lawful and Rightful King of this Realm Now he is Lawful King who hath a Lawful Right and is no Pretender or Usurper or he is Lawful King who is no Tyrant in Exercise nor Usurper of Power above or contrary to Law. How any Man could understandingly swear his belief of his being Lawful King without such a distinction I cannot conceive And then it is to be considered that he is the lawful King who governs according to Law or at least not contrary to Law in the main and then he being the King recognized by the Subject who swears Allegiance to him if he prove quite contrary How can he who own'd him under a true Notion of him be bound to him when he is corrupted from what he was taken to be He took him for his King who is King by Law and doth not bend himself to overthrow it but when he ceaseth to govern his Subjects as Subjects he disclaims the governing them as Subjects and his own being their King saith Dr. Falkner Chr. Loyalty l. 2. c. 5. p. 544 c. The Relation of an English Subject is to an English not an Absolute King. If one term of the Relation be chang'd or ceased the Obligation of the other Relate and Correlate ceaseth Cessante personâ relata naturali cessat obligatio personalis Cessante relatione vel personâ Civili cessat obligatio talis quâ talis The natural Father dying the relation to him is at an end and the Obligation to Duty is dissolved The moral and political Relation and political Person ceasing to be what he ought to be the Relation and Obligation dies A King is not bound to govern or protect Traitors Nor are Subjects bound to Allegiance and Obedience to him that is not their King. See the Christian Directory Cases Obligation of Vows and Promises p. 703. And Mr. Lawson is short and positive The personal Majesty of a King with us requires subjection whilst he lives and governeth according to Law but upon his Death or Tyranny in Exercise or acting to the Dissolution of the Fundamental Constitution he ceaseth to be a Soveraign and the obligation as to Him ceaseth p. 214. Polit. Sacra Civilis In a word so many ways as Majesty and Soveraignty may be lost so many ways this Obligation may be lost Ibid. 2. All that concerns the Papal pretended Powers of doing Evil in the Oath remains true for ever The only Clause in the Oath in which any can think himself concerned is the Promise I will bear faith and true Allegiance to his Majesty his Heirs and Successors and Him and them will defend to the uttermost of my Power against all Conspiracies and attempts whatsoever The resolution of this Doubt depends upon the former Plots and treacherous Conspiracies are practices unworthy of Christians against the worst of Tyrants The ways of defence must be lawful But who was that King which you promised to defend and to bear Faith to Was it not to your Lawful King in the lawful Exercise of his Authority If you were a Servant to his Arbitrary Will if you had defended him and served him to persecute the true Religion or to remove and corrupt it or to set up Arbitrary Power you were a Traitor against God and your Country Your Oath was a Bond of Iniquity and ought now to be repented of Had you fought for him when he was gone to the Camp to fight against the Kingdom you had been a Traitor to England for whose good only Kings are ordained 3. If you are ensnared with the Opinion of the pretended Prince of Wales's being the next Heir you are to be pitied if you are sincere in your Opinion The great Convention the highest Judges in the Kingdom saw the Depositions in favour of his Royal Birth and Natural Descent and what swaying Presumptions and Reasons are produced and publish'd against him and have rejected him and judged him no lawful Heir And if you had much more to confirm your Opinion of his Birth you ought to acquiesce in their Highest Judgment and Determination And if you believe never so honourably of the late King that he would not impose upon us yet he might be imposed upon But when we consider how Popish Principles corrupt Nature you have no reason to be confident And if you are not forestall'd and partial you have much more reason to believe that our Gracious King and Queen who express uprightness in all that they speak or do that they would abhor to deprive a Right Heir of the Priviledg of his Birth to gain a Kingdom too soon when they were no further distant from it and stood in so little need of it 4. But then if you insist upon it Why did not the undoubted Heir succeed in Order This is one of our marvelous Blessings and we have cause to acknowledg the Wisdom and Goodness of our Queen that she consented to and approved of the Method and Order of the Settlement of the Crown by a wise Act of the Convention to cut off Debates and to shorten the way to a happy Settlement If her Majesty be well pleased and her Royal Highness in a better state than she was in before what Cause have you to be dissatisfied There is no such exactness and niceness to be found in most of our Successions in the Throne Peter Martyr was a very wise and learned good Man and his words are worth our following Nihil anxiè disputandum est quo jure quarè injuriâ Principes adepti sunt suam potestatem Illud potiùs agendum est ut Magistratus praesentes revereamur in Rom. c. 13. v. 1. Let us not anxiously dispute Princes Titles let us rather mind this that we honour and fear the present Magistrates I do not speak this as if I doubted the lawfulness of the present happy happy Settlement but for your sake King James the First spake it I am since come to that Knowledg that an Act of Parliament can do greater Wonders than unite Scotland to England by the Name of Great Britain And that old wise Man Treasurer Burleigh was wont to say He knew not what an Act of Parliament can do in England Speech in Star-Chamber And some great Lawyers in a Parliament of Queen Elizabeth Mr. Yelverton afterwards Speaker and Judg said That to say the Parliament had no Power to determine of the Crown was High Treason And Mr. Mounson said It were horrible to say that the Parliament had no Authority to determine of the Crown Sir S. Dew's Journal p. 164 176. And what cannot a Convention a Representative of the Community do and what Parliament will not confirm what they have done And what good Man will be so cloudy and sullen as not to rejoice for what is done to the unspeakable Comfort of
The Publisher to the Reader THese Papers were sent me by a very Worthy Divine of the Church of England Upon the perusal of which I found with submission to better Judgments the late and present Proceedings so well vindicated and all Scruples arising from the alteration of Affairs so well answered that I judg it would be very injurious to the Publick tho the Author through his great Modesty hath mean thoughts of his own Performances if I should have returned them to be buried in a Desk I know indeed several Treatises have been published of late with great Judgment and Satisfaction on several Points here handled particularly about the Old and New Oaths but none as I know of have gathered together all the Parts of the great Revolutions in England and represented them in their true Colours as is performed in this Friendly Debate to the great satisfaction of all that are truly sensible and even to the Conviction of such among us who earnestly invited the Deliverer our present King William but now very ungratefully reject that Deliverance of which God hath made him a Glorious Instrument A Friendly Debate BETWEEN Dr. Kingsman a Dissatisfied Clergy-man AND Gratianus Trimmer a Neighbour Minister CONCERNING The late Thanksgiving-Day the Prince's Desent into England the Nobility and Gentries joining with him the Acts of the Honourable Convention the Nature of our English Government the Secret League with France the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy c. With some Considerations on Bishop Sanderson and Dr. Falkner about Monarchy Oaths c. Written for the Satisfaction of some of the Clergy and others that yet labour under Scruples By a Minister of the Church of England LONDON Printed for Ionathan Robinson at the Golden Lion in St. Paul's Church-Yard MDCLXXXIX A FRIENDLY DEBATE BETWEEN Dr. KING'S-MAN AND GRATIANUS TRIMMER About the THANKS GIVING-DAY c. King's-Man GOod Morrow to you Sir I am come to see you this Monday Morning to Recreate my self with you hoping to find you to Day at leisure to discourse Trimmer Sir I am glad to see you here a Sign that the Times are come about or else I should not have thought of such a Favour from you And I am glad to hear you use the Word Recreate a good sign that you took Pains Yesterday that you desire Recreation to Day I pray Sir be pleased to take a Chair I was just now thinking what Text to preach upon next Thursday the Thanksgiving-Day K. Had you any Legal Notice of it or Orders from the Bishop T. No Sir but I hear there is a Book come to Mr. of and tho they care not for the Service I look'd for one from the Apparitor for the sake of the Shilling K. And did you give notice of it in the Church T. Yes K. And what Text have you thought on T. I have thought of those Words Judges 5.9 My Heart is toward the Governours of Israel that offered themselves willingly among the People Bless ye the Lord. But I may pitch upon another K. Is not that in the same Chapter with that Rebellious Text Curse ye Meroz T. Yea it is But I thought there had been never a Rebellious Text in Scripture K. No And therefore it will be hard for you to find one for a Thanksgiving on this Occasion T. Why so Do you think Rebellion to be the occasion of this Thanksgiving But if there were such a bad Text in the Word of God I would find a better for this Occasion K. I thought what the Whiggs and Trimmers would at last bring us to T. So you see indeed that the Trimmers the finest Nick-name that was ever given to honest Men that were for the settlement of Affairs on the truest bottom have brought the Boat to a sight of Land and I wish it well at Home in the Haven of Rest and Peace But do you know whither you were going in the Royal James hanging out the Flags of Loyalty and by an Arbitrary Power against all Law pressing all the Vessels in the River to carry the Pope and Cardinals to visit England with all their Stuff and Merchandize and to command all that would not go passively to lower and strike Flag to you or else to be sunk K. But you do not blame us for our Loyalty do ye The Church of England and her Friends have been ever Loyal And it is her Honour which she hath never prostituted yet whatever other Reformed Churches have done that Honour of Loyalty is peculiar to our Church T. No I do not blame you for Loyalty in the truest Notion of it which the Trimmer understands better than any of you His Notion of it is that Loyalty is Duty and Obedience according to Law. And as for the Glory of the Church of England as it is called and said to be peculiar to her I do think her Sisters beyond-Sea are as honest as she and whatever your Mother is some of you her Sons have got no Honour by making Court to the Mother of Harlots And they who can disparage their Aunts abroad or disown them as no Sister-Churches because they have not Lords for their Husbands and wear not the same Dresses do not consult the Honour of their own Mother And I doubt they will have but few Friends left 'em who abandon them as no Friends to the Church who have appeared in this Cause But because you are so civil as to give me a Visit I will not displease you by a rehersal of the famous Actions of Loyalty and Heats or ingenious Discourses of Government produced by your Friends As you were very near to be destroyed with us by your over officiousness so I am abraid your ill tempered Loyalty will prove pernicious to some and that you will yet endanger all by that kind of Loyalty which some have called a principal Article of Religion Loyalty is one of the prime Duties of the Fifth Commandment and it relates to an object Duty placed and to a Rule plainly determined I will be Loyal to a Popish King but if I may not have the King but I must be in danger of being corrupted by Popery or suffering to extremity by it I think I have cause to adore the Providence which hath delivered me from both without Blood and Destruction upon Destruction If the King had kept his Religion to Himself tho he made the worst choice and not gone about to impose it and set it up upon the Ruine of the Government He might have governed the Kingdom in Peace and Honour But it being out of his own Power since he subjected himself to the Conduct of the most Pestilent Society in the World to have his Faith to Himself without forcing it upon his unwilling Subjects you can never preserve the Virgin Virtue of Loyalty from being guilty of commiting Folly in England And so being Loyal to the King as you call it you are Disloyal to Christ the Supream Head of the Church and treacherous to
he had pleased in convenient time to call a free Parliament he had satisfied his Subjects 4. When the Prince advanced the King went out in Person to his Army declaring an intention to fight 5. But when the Armies were not far asunder and an Engagement expected by the Prince Behold the Soveraign Power of the Lord of Hosts upon the Spirit of the King He deserted his Army upon which he laid the whole of his Cause And so far he quitted his Cause which was to be maintained by Force and not by a Legal Parliament 6. And lastly as you very well know he gave up his Army and Navy to the Prince of Orange and went off without Force or Threatning for what Reasons or upon whose Advice is not altogether Unknown Upon the whole of what I have very briefly exercised your Patience with I conclude Our Case is Extraordinary Our Case in all Circumstances extraordinary It is Extraordinary 1. That our King should be a Papist and subject to the Abhorred Bishop of Rome 2. That he should overthrow the Foundations tho not pull down all the Superstructions of the Government and begin with his own Soveraign Dignity own a Superior the Pope to whom he sent an Ambassadour and from whom he entertained a Nuncio 3. That he should go about to force and pack a Parliament and therein destroy the Liberties of the Subject which are as legal as his Prerogatives 4. That when a Parliament is desired He chose rather to put his Cause upon the Swords Point and really into the Hands and upon the Determination of God who is the Lord of Hosts tho he did not refer it to the Judgment of God formally and in words than into a legal peaceable way 5. And having deserted his Army without Battel I desire your Information of me whether it was not a giving up of his Cause 6. It was altogether extraordinary too that Subjects might not have encouragement to Petition for their just Rights when they saw Ruine drawing on by the encrease of Popery and Combinations of Papists to root out the Protestant Religion according to the Doctrine of their Church And being debarred of any Legal Means the most Eminent of the Kingdom not the Plebs and Vulgus the private Men that are judged unfit to judg of their Rights and Dangers call for Assistance from the Heirs Expectant that the Illustrious Prince should enter the Kingdom with an Army that almost all the Kingdom were ready to assist according to their Abilities that he should march so many Miles without a Skirmish and instead of finding a Royal Army in a posture to fight he found it discharg'd from fighting by the King Himself And in fine found an open and uninterrupted Passage to Royal Palaces and the whole Force of the King delivered up to him If this be not rare and extraordinary By a Letter from the King to him never was the Finger of God seen in any wonderful Work and Turn This is the mighty Work of God! whom wonderful in working And extraordinary Providences being either in Mercy or in Judgment I see a great deal of Mercy a Mercy as great and extraordinary as the appearance of the Hand that gave it to us And I make no question but the Night that was coming upon us would have been as dismal and dreadful as the Day of our Deliverance is glorious and memorable K. I own the Providence is extraordinary and the Action without example But still how can you publickly rejoice at the Success of a Rebellion against our Soveraign Is it not against established Laws and against our Oaths T. Sir I will be as brief with you as may be 1. Can sinful Men do any thing without Sin And is it not one of the Perfections of God to carry on his own Purposes by those very Actions of Men that are sinful Gen. 50.20 and many Instances hereof might be given 2. There were many and great Sins committed before the Kingdom was provoked to this extraordinary Course Arbitrary Power is subversive of the Constitution and Laws of this Kingdom and the Advancement of Popery the introducing of all manner of Sins and Miseries No ordinary Rules for extraordinary Cases 3. In extraordinary Cases we are carried beyond ordinary Rules As there is no written Law to warrant the Subjects taking up Arms against the King but forbidding them so there is no Law of God or Man that warrants the King 's turning his Power and Sword against his Subjects The one is as unlawful as the other There is not an Oath given by the Subjects to the King but the King is in Conscience bound to answer by his goodness to them 4. Our Constitution and Laws do suppose an intire Union of Affection Interest yea and Religion too between the King and his People And as express Laws and formal Oaths do forbid Subjects taking Arms and other Acts of Disobedience so the very Being and Relation of a King and Rules of Government bind him as fast not to oppress them or invade their Rights They have Rights and are a People as free from Tyranny as any people in the World. 5. Then strictest Obligations in Religion and Conscience mutual between King and People must always suppose God's Soveraign Right to dispose of Kingdoms to put down one and set up another And it is suitable to think that when God doth appear by great providences great Changes follow Hitherto we see extraordinary Mercies And I beseech you shew me wherein have the Subjects of England sinned against the Person Crown or Dignity of the King to necessitate him to prepare Armies against them who were constrained to take Arms or be destroyed by Papists K. But tho God doth act according to his absolute Dominion yet he acts according to his infinite Wisdom Righteousness or Mercy and tho His infinite Majesty doth whatsoever pleaseth him yet we must walk according to Rules and keep our Places Now the King of England being a Soveraign Prince Supreme over All Persons and we being bound by so many Oaths to maintain his Crown and Dignity and not to take Arms against his Person or those who are Comissioned by him on any Pretence whatsoever this Action must needs be unlawful in it self and not the less sinful because successful T. Sir I will take your Reasons in Order And because I cannot carry Books in Memory and shall have recourse to some few I pray let us go to my Study if you can stay there so long without a Fire K. Come let 's then I can endure the Cold as well as your self T. Absolute Kings no Ordinance of God. 1. Then I cannot believe that God or Nature ever gave an absolute Power to Kings An Absolute King is so called because he is non Legibus solutus not bound by Laws One that gives Laws to Others but is above all Laws and not tied to any Himself When God did foresee that his People Israel would in
moderate temperate more or less by the arbitrament of the Nobles or People The Roman Emperor was Arbitrary and Absolute had Power of Life and Death Wherefore the Christians could with no Pretence or Colour restrain the Violence of those Times or prohibit those Injuries by which they were vexed But the Princes of those Nations which thou Bellarmine dost mention have certain Bounds set them which when they exceed the Nobles think it is lawful for them to repel unjust Force and shake off the Yoke by which they are opprest contrary to Right and Law. And then defends the Cause of the Protestants in Holland and France And in this there is a difference between these Churches and the Primitive which was subject to the meer pleasure of the Emperor without the least Title to any Law of their own But when they were armed with publick Right under Constantine they were not only kill'd as before but did kill and having overcome Licinius and the Tyrants they eased their Necks of the Yoke of Persecution And in such a way or for a like reason hath our Church done c. p. 152. I know there is another sort of Friends to the Church of England but I think these now named as worthy of the Name as they and more to the Honour of it And these shall suffice I do forbear to turn to Foreign Divines that have been in reputation in the Church of England because I will not be further troublesome to you As for the Judicium Vniversitatis Oxoniensis It goes upon those Suppositions and handles those Matters which are alien to our present Case and therefore I forbear looking into it K. But that which sticks with me is my Oath of Allegiance T. Why did you not assist the Person of the King to the utmost of your Power to drive out the Invader and to ruin your Church and Kingdom Why did you oppose him in his Declaration of Indulgence But I spare you Only a few Questions more and adone It is plain the King did voluntarily put himself out of the Exercise of his Authority and Possession of his Kingdoms Is it to be thought that the Kingdom would be without a King during his pleasure or did he not really think that in the Vacancy the Kingdom would choose another If he thought they would fill the Vacancy then why did he give way to it If you say there was a Necessity for him to depart in point of Honour and Safety I know not what his Reasons were but be they never so many or great in his Opinion I go upon Matter of Fact. The Throne being voided by his own Act must it not be filled and did he not think and foresee it would then why did he not prevent it why did he give way to it If he made way for a Successor Allegiance is not enjoined during the King's natural Life he made himself a Dead King in his natural Life-time and Allegiance is due to him no longer than he is King. Suppose he should put himself into a Monastery or Colledge of Jesuites or go to Rome or in Pilgrimage and put Himself out of capacity to govern the Kingdom doth the Bond of a my Allegiance hold and continue in force upon me He is a uncapable of ruling us in France as in any of those places therefore I see no reason but to conclude my Bond of Allegiance is cancell'd and dissolved K. But two Kings at a time in being What! two Suns in One Firmament T. Sir I know but one King and one Queen both joined in the same Regality Your Sun is set he put out his own Light. Be not so fond of your late King as if you had lost your Mistress and were resolved never to have another for you must have another King and Queen too as it happens we have by the wonderful Providence and Gift of God to these Kingdoms since you and I began our discourse Come Sir let me play a little upon you I will not hurt you Were you so truly and perfectly Loyal to K. Charles the 2d as not to wish for James while you look'd upon Him as the Rising Sun that was to Crown your Ambition with Preferments and Happy Days K. Charles went out with little Mourning and James came up with greatest Admiration You were like Persian Idolaters at his Ascent Do not mourn too much at his Ecclipse It was his own Free-will and we had no reason to resist his Will in going away and thereby making room for such a Succession as is to the hearty Joy of the serious part of the Nation and the universal Joy of all Protestants in Europe Four Years ago a gloomy Look was by innuendo a sign of a disloyal Heart there was a great deal of dissembled cheerfulnes I hope Doctor you will never be presented nor troubled for a discontented Look nor indicted for a little fit of Sulleness Come Doctor satisfy your self with St. Paul's wholesome Doctrine The Powers that be are ordained of God I believe more than those you hanker after and hear what a Great Friend of the Church of England and Advocate for her Ceremonies I mean the truly worthy Admirer of Free-Grace and Calvin's Friend the old Bishop Morton of Duresm speaks Are they then Once established then whatsoever the Government be they are of God God owneth them they may not be disturbed For as Silver whilst it is meer Plate if it be tendred for Exchange may be either taken or not by the Party to whom it is offered but if it once receive the King's Stamp and be coined it is Currant Mony and may not be refused Or as Acts of Parliament whilst they are but voted are but only Consents but after they have the King 's Royal Assent they become Statutes which may not be transgressed So it is in Governments as soon as it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Created by Man as St. Peter calleth it becometh thus St. Paul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God's Ordinance Ser● at York before the King 1639 and may not be resisted Now Sir Our Chosen King and Queen are Created by Man a Convention that had greater Power and Trust committed to them than any Parliament before them since this Government was first moulded The late Convention of greater Authority than any ordinary Parliament and are the Ordinance of God therefore scatter the clouds and look up Receive them as from God and be subject for the Lord's sake and their own And to move you from a weighty motive the present World Had your King been let alone a while and you so honest as to refuse to read his Declaration you had been a Doctor without Preferment and therefore come the worst that can come by a Comprehension you may have at least one Living and if you must preach twice you will have I hope peace to study to make two Sermons or otherwise to edify the Souls of Men in the Afternoon as well as the
say it is to a stable and permanent Government Arnisaeus Relectionis politicae L. 2. c. 2. Sect. 6. And de facto William the First who did not found his Authority upon Conquest after he had wasted Sussex Kent and other Counties until he came to Boarcham where Arch-Bishop Aldred and Wulstan of Worcester Clito Edgar the Earles Edwin and Morcar and Noblemen out of London with many others came to Him and giving Hostages they yielded to Him and swore Allegiance Cum quibus et ipse foedus pepigit With whom He himself made a Covenant Floren Wigorniensis And when he and his Normans put the State into a Convulsion by their Oppressions several of the Saxon chief Nobility took Arms to defend their Ancient Laws as having learned of their Ancestors aut Libertatem aut Mortem Liberty or Death Argumentum Antinormanicum p. 26. * There is another notable Compact related to be made between William and Stigand A. B. of Canterbury Egelsine Abbot of St. Austins Canterb. and the Kentish men who armed themselves against William and being ready to engage a Parley is desired The Ambassadors of the Kentish-men were commanded to tell William to this purpose Most Renowned Duke The Men of Kent do meet thee they will be thy Friends and will obey thy Power if thou grant their just Demands as those that contend to preserve the Liberty received from their Ancestors and their Country Laws and Customs and that will not be brought under Servitude which they have not tried and been used to nor bear new Laws They can bear Royal Power but cannot bear Domination Receive the Kentish-men with undiminished and untouched Liberty reserved Manners and Vsages their Ancient Laws receive them not as Servants but Subjects well affected to thee But if thou strive to take away their Liberty and Immunity of their Laws thou shalt take away their Lives at once for they chuse rather to fight at the hazard of Battel with thee and to fall in the Field under the power of certain Enemies than in the Court under uncertain Laws For although the other English can suffer Servitude yet Liberty is the Property of the Men of Kent The King disturbed with this Speech and other Difficulties took Counsel for many Reasons non necessitate magis quàm voluntate he granted that they should live after their Ancient Laws Itaque inter Gulielmum Cantios initum foedus fuit obsides utrinque dat Antiquitas Britannicae p. 108. Here 's an Original Contract with the Arch-bishop and Abbot and Kingdom of Kent If you say It was lawful for them to resist an Invader and a Conqueror Consider he claimed to the Kingdom by an Hereditary Right as Kinsman and Heir by Gift to Edward the Confessor as right Heir to the Crown by Succession as his Successors and Sons also all●dg who were chosen to the Crown out of the order of natural descent See several Charters quoted to prove this Argumentum Antinormanicum p. 19 c. And whereas it were to be wish'd that there had been a continual intire Confidence preserved between Kings and their Subjects and that there had never been any Forfeiture made or Question about it yet there are forfeitures too often made and though a People should not be hasty to take the Advantage of the King's Weakness yet there 's a time when they ought to shew that there is and must be a Power in a Common-wealth to save it self from Ruin. And they cannot answer it to God themsel●es nor Posterity if they shall suffer a King despirited and disabled by God to recover Strength when they saw how it had been imploy'd if Divine Providence had not disarm'd Him. 5. The Gentleman goes on to teach us that a Parliament and a Convention are two different things the latter for want of the King's Writs and Concurrence having no share in the Legislative Power This is as much as to say What have the Convention to do with the Affairs that lay before them Well let it be granted that there is a difference between the Convention and the Parliament I do humbly conceive with reverence to those Awful Assemblies That the Convention being called in an Extraordinary Case for an Extraordinary Work were trusted with an Extraordinary Great Power by the Community of England The Real Majesty is in the Community of England The Form of Government was dissolved It is true the Community was not reduced to the Original and pure state of Liberty to frame a new Structure new from the Foundation because there were Heirs in pretence in view and in expectation And therefore they were obliged in Conscience to do right to them that had the most undoubted Right But the Settlement of the Government in the Person or Persons was in them They were the Highest Power to determine the Pretence of the Nominal Prince of Wales The Order Limitation and Settlement of the Succession was in them And though they had not the Formality of a Parliament because of the Defect of a King they wanted not an Original Power to give under God and for God Life and Form to the Government it self The Legislative Power is the King the House of Lords and House of Commons The Business of the Convention was not to make particular Laws and they did not exercise a Legislative Power but they were put upon it how to re-establish the Government as near as possibly they could according to the Ancient Constitution And in that respect being to constitute and declare the Persons who were to have a part in the regular enacting of Laws they had not a less but a greater Power than is ordinarily exerted in Parliament They were not advising how to draw up a new Form or Constitution there were Ancient Land-marks to bound them and the Model of the Building was in their Eye and there were Ancient Laws and Customs both Common and Statute in Force but there wanted an Administrator a Soveraign to look to the Administration and executive Part. And the ordinary Methods were broken by another who was obliged to observe them They had as exact a respect to the Ancient Methods as possibly could be had in observing the number of Representatives and giving notice to the Electors to chuse their Representatives and Trustees And they had the Authority of Laws and Necessity both for what they did The Laws by virtue of which they acted were Customs immemorial to meet and consult about the Publick Good the Good of the Whole being the great End of Society and Government The Law of Nature was sufficient to call them together And the urgent Law of Necessity laid upon them this Duty which was not of their own making as is visible to all clear-sighted Men. As great things have been done in the Days of our Fathers out of the ordinary Rules that were never thought to be ill done Instance is given not in Hen. the 7th but in the Nomination and Proclamation of King James the
rest of the Sheets the Author did not see therefore the Reader is entreated to correct or pardon the Printer's Faults therein Books lately Printed and Sold by Jonathan Robinson at the Golden Lion in St. Pauls Church-yard relating to the great Revolutions and Affairs in England 1688 1689. ☞ AN Account of the Reasons of the Nobility and Gentry's Invitation of the Prince of Orange into England Being a Memorial from the English Protestants concerning their Grievances with a large Account of the Birth of the Prince of Wales presented to their Highnesses the Prince and Princess of Orange A Collection of Political and Historical Papers relating to the Present Juncture of Affairs in England in Ten Parts which will be Continued from Time to Time according as Matter occurs A Brief History of the Succession of the Crown of England c. Collected out of the Records and the most Authentick Historians written for the Satisfaction of the Nation Wonderful Predections of Nostredamus Grebner David Pareus and Antonius Torquatus wherein the Grandeur of their Present Majesties the Happiness of England and Downfall of France and Rome are plainly Delineated With a large Preface shewing That the Crown of England has not been obscurely foretold to their Majesties William the 3d and Queen Mary late Prince and Princess of Orange and that the People of this Ancient Monarchy have duly contributed thereunto in the present Assembly of Lords and Commons notwithstanding the Objections of Men of different Extremes A Seasonable Discourse wherein is examined what is lawful during the Confusions and Revolutions of Government especially in the Case of a King deserting his Kingdoms and how far a Man may lawfully conform to the Powers and Commands of those who with Various Successes hold Kingdoms Whether it be lawful 1 In Paying Taxes 2 In personal Service 3 In taking of Oaths 4 In giving up himself to a final Allegiance A Seasonable Treatise wherein is proved That King William commonly called the Conqueror did not get the Imperial Crown of England by the Sword but by the Election and Consent of the People To whom he swore to observe the Original Contract between King and People An Answer to a Paper Intituled The Desertion Discussed being a Vindication of the Proceedings of the late Honourable Convention in their Filling up the Throne with King William and Queen Mary An Exact Collection of the Debates of the House of Commons particularly such as relate to the Bill of Exclusion a Popish Successor c. held at Westminster Octob. 21. 1680 Prorogued the 10th and Dissolved the 18th of January following With the Debates of the House of Commons at Oxford Assembled March. 21. 1680. Also a Just and Modest Vindication of the Proceedings of the said Parliaments Julian's Arts to Undermine and Extirpate Christianity c. By Samuel Johnson The Impression of which Book was made in the Year 1683 and has ever since lain buried under the Ruins of all those English Rights which it endeavoured to defend but by the Auspicious and Happy Arrival of the Prince of Orange both They and It have obtained a Resurrection Dr. Gilbert Burnet now Bishop of Salisbury his Tracts in Two Vollumes in which are contained several Things relating to the Affairs of England The Mystery of Iniquity working in the Dividing of Protestants in order to the subverting of Religion and our Laws for al most the space of thirty Years last past plainly laid open With some Advices to Protestants of all Perswasions in the present Juncture of our Affairs To which is added A Specimen of a Bill for uniting of Protestants Liberty of Conscience now highly necessary for England humbly represented to this present Parliament An Enquiry into and Detection of the Barbarous Murther of the late Earl of Essex now under consideration of a Committee of the House of Lords Or a Vindication of that Noble Person from the Guilt and Infamy of having destroyed himself An Account of the Trial of Mr. Papillon To which is added The Matter of Fact in the chusing of Sheriffs in Sir John Moor's Year now under the consideration of the Committee for Grievances A Collection of strange Predictions of Mr. J. P. for the Years 1687 and 1688 about K. James the Second Prince of Wales and the scampering away of many great Ministers of State. Arguments against the Dispensing Power in Answer to L. C. J. Herbert The Royal Cards Being a lively Representation of the late Popish and Tyrannical Designs and of the wonderful Deliverance of this Kingdom from the same by the glorious Expedition of William Henry Prince of Orange now King of England whom God long preserve in curious Copper Plates Price ●… s. a Pack