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A18981 The true ancient Roman Catholike Being an apology or counterproofe against Doctor Bishops Reproofe of the defence of the Reformed Catholike. The first part. Wherein the name of Catholikes is vindicated from popish abuse, and thence is shewed that the faith of the Church of Rome as now it is, is not the Catholike faith ... By Robert Abbot ... Abbot, Robert, 1560-1618. 1611 (1611) STC 54; ESTC S100548 363,303 424

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same and other nations held it their greatest honour and felicity to be members of Christs Church and haue vsed all care and endeauour to honour and aduance the same The time hath since beene for the fulfilling of the other prophecy that b Apoc. 17. 13. 17. the Kings of the earth should giue their power and Kingdome to the beast and with the whoore sitting vpon many waters should bend themselues c Verse 14. to fight against the Lambe M. Bishop saith that it is vncertaine what Kings these shall be But it is certaine by the confession of all parts that they are d See of this whole matter Part. 2. in the defence of M. Perkins Prologue Pag. 42. c. the ten Kings that is those many Kings that shall arise of the desolations and ruines of the Roman Empire and what Kings they are that now possesse the Countries and Kingdomes that were once the Prouinces of the Roman Empire Italie France Spaine Germany England c. it is not vncertaine The euidence and certainty thereof teacheth vs to vnderstand ten Kings not for ten only particular men as M. Bishop most improbably and absurdly doth but for the Kings successiuely of so many Kingdomes the King of England the King of France the King of Spaine c. vnder euery of which names there is a succession of many persons Vpon the decay and fall of the Empire who arose together with these Kings to whom haue they yeelded their Kingdome and power but only the Pope who by little and little thrust out the Emperour and made himselfe Lord of the Roman territory and hath set vp himselfe vnder a title of Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction to vsurpe a Kingdome aboue them all They haue acknowledged his iurisdiction they haue submitted themselues vnto him they haue beene content to ioyne with him and to yeeld him all assistance to fight against the Lambe against the true members of Christ against all that professed the true faith and Gospell of Christ But yet it is foretold that there shall be a time when e Vers 16. these Kings shall hate the wheore and shall make her desolate and naked and eate her flesh and burne her with fire Where because it might be questioned how it should be that they should doe thus of whom it is said that they should giue their power to the beast the holy Ghost to take away that doubt addeth f Vers 17. For God hath put into their hearts to fulfill his will and to consent together and to giue their Kingdome to the beast vntill the words of God be fulfilled Whereby he signifieth that although by the secret hand and counsell of God those Kings should giue their Kingdome to the beast yet it should be so but for a time only vntill the word of God be fulfilled that is vntill it be performed which God hath foretold of the abhomination of desolation standing vp in the holy place in the Temple of God which being done they shall hate the whoore and make her desolate and burne her with fire God opening their eyes that they may see the abuses and vsurpations of that wicked strumpet that they may reward her accordingly As for M. Bishops construction of the beast and the whoore as things diuers and that those Kings though giuing all their power to the beast yet should withall hate the harlot and fight against her as wicked men fall out amongst themselues and aide one another against as wicked as themselues I reiect it as his owne ridiculous and fond deuice the thing being so plaine to the contrary as that his owne fellowes the Rhemish Diuines as I haue before shewed doe confesse that it is g Rhem. Testam Annot. Apoc. 13. 1. the beast which is called the whoore of Babylon and by way of exposition doe name the Whoore or Beast or Antichrist as appertaining all to one The giuing therefore of their power to the beast is the giuing thereof to the harlot and their hatred towards the harlot is their hatred towards the beast they shall first doe the one and the time of that expired they shall begin●e to shew the other This in part is already come to passe and God hath opened the eyes and turned the hearts of sundry Nations and Princes that they now hate the whoore of Babylon the Roman Church whereof before they stood in awe and the rest in Gods good time shall follow and ioyne together to the deuouring and consuming of it I noted our gracious King for one of them whose eyes God hath enlightened to see the fornications of that wicked harlot and to hate the same but M. Bishop saith that it cannot be applyed to his Maiesty in our sense because he was not in his former time any aider of their religion and now fallen off from that to the Protestants But though King IAMES haue beene no aider of their religion yet the King of England hath beene and the King of England who in other former Kings hath beene a supporter of the Kingdome of the beast is now in King IAMES an impugne● thereof the Kings first supporting and then 〈◊〉 not being necessarily in person the same but in suc●essio● only as hath beene said Therefore though they 〈◊〉 reprobates and cast a-waies who gaue their Kingdome to 〈◊〉 beast as M. Bishop pronounceth of them as for vs we iudge the● not let them stand or fall to their owne Lord yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not which he vainly collecteth that King IAMES ●y b●ing one of them that shall ●ate and destroy the who 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●oned amongst reprobates but he is rather 〈◊〉 hereby from the number of them To exclude this he alleageth that those Kings shall giue their Kingdome to t●● b●ast till the word of God be consum●ate that is saith he till the ●nd of 〈◊〉 But the best is we are not tyed to his Commentarie and because h Apoc. 18. 1. 2. c. St. Iohn at large declareth that the Beast and hi● Babylon shall be destroyed before the end of all therefore we vse our liberty to thinke it false which he saith that they shall giue their Kingdome to the beast vntill the end of all They shall so doe vntill it be fulfilled which God hath forespoken concerning the Kingdome of Antichrist which being done they shall arme themselues against the said Kingdome and shall helpe to pull it downe So doth King IAMES and he will not thinke it worthy of any ha●d censure that we say that he doth so and as for M. Bishops faire warning we reiect it with scorne only telling him that the custome was that the i Tull. Orat. pro Sext. Rosc● Can●s aluntur in Capitolio C. si luce quoque canes lat●ent c. opinor ijs crura suffringantur Capitolian dogges when they gaue warning without cause should haue their legges broken W. BISHOP §. 3. MAster Abbot hauing acquited himselfe so Clarke-like in the precedent part of his answere
the Scots in the doctrine of the Church of Rome euen as Augustine was from S. Gregory into England From which the Scots Church neuer swarued vntill of late yeares Knoxe Buchanan and such like giddy headed and fiery spirited fellowes seduced them And M. Abbot most ignorantly or impudently affirmeth it to haue beene 1200. yeares after the incarnation of Christ ere the Popes authority could get any acknowledgment there for in the very same hundreth yeare by him named they were so farre off from denying the Popes authority ouer them in causes Ecclesiasticall that they did acknowledge him to be also their Protectour in temporall affaires For when King Edward the third would haue giuen them Iohn Balial for their King they answered him That they would not accept of him for such Walsingham in vita Edw. Anno 1292. without the Popes consent who had their country in protection as they then pleaded And M. Abbots argument to the contrary is most friuoulous Alexander the King bade the Popes Legate to enter his country at his perill ergo he did not acknowledge the Popes authority By the like argument one might proue that King Philip and Queene Mary did not acknowledge the Popes authority for they commanded a Legate of his to stay at Calis and to forbeare entrance into this Realme at his perill The Popes Legates then when they be sent about affaires that doe seeme to the Prince and his Councell preiudicious to the temporall slate may be refused without disparagement to the Popes supreme authority in causes Ecclesiasticall And the King of Scots had reason to refuse that Cardinall Legate whose speciall arrand was to collect money to maintaine the warres of the holy Land which was not to be spared in his Countrey Besides the very entertainement of such a great State so accompanied was reputed as needlesse so ouer costly for that poore Countrey If M. Abbot haue no better stuffe then this to vphold his badde cause he that best knew his owne meaning and designement hath to the life painted out himselfe where he saith They care not indeede what they say or write so that it may carry a magnificall and braue shew to dazell the eyes of them that are not well acquainted with their lewde and naughty dealing R. ABBOT a Bale Script Britānic Cent. 1. oper minor PAlladius and Patritius were sent into Scotland by Celestinus Bishop of Rome to instruct the Scots against the doctrine of Pelagius the Heretike which is a certaine argument of the apostasie of the Church of Rome inasmuch as the Church of Rome now patronizeth and defendeth the doctrine of Pelagius as I haue b Of Free will sect 5. before shewed Little doth M. Bishop gaine by all this alleagement of teachers then sent from Rome We know what was then the religion of the Church of Rome and we know that the streame the longer it ranne the more soile it gathered but yet it was very pure and tollerable then in comparison of that that now it is There followeth now an assertion of mine that it was twelue hundred yeares after the incarnation of Christ ere the Popes authority could get any acknowledgement in Scotland which he saith I doe most impudently or ignorantly affirme But how doth it appeare that I so doe Forsooth in the very same hundreth yeare by him named saith he they were so farre off from denying the Popes authority ouer them in causes Ecclesiasticall that they did acknowledge him to be their Protectour in temporall affaires Marke well gentle Reader that I name twelue hundred yeares and he saith in the very same hundreth yeare and yet for the thing which he reporteth of the Scots alleaging that the Pope had their Countrey in protection he noteth the yeare 1290. which was almost a hundred yeares after the time by me set downe Be it M. Bishop that at the end of twelue hundred and ninety yeares they had receiued the Pope to be the Protectour of their Countrey that nothing hindereth the truth of my speech that for twelue hundred yeares they acknowledged not any authority of the Pope amongst them in Church affaires You should haue brought vs some records to shew that within the compasse of those twelue hundred yeares the Pope had without controllement exercised in the Realme of Scotland Ecclesiasticall and ordinary iurisdiction which seeing you doe not you iustifie my assertion and the impudency whereof you speake must be the staine of your owne face who will take vpon you to contradict me with such an impertinent and sleeuelesse tale To proue that there was no such iurisdiction acknowledged I referred the Reader to the King of Scots owne wordes who as Matthew Paris reporteth c Math. Paris in Henrico 3. Anno 1237. Volenti autem Domino Legato intrare regnum Scotiae vt ibi de negotijs Ecclesiasticis tractaret sicut in Anglia respondit Rex Scotiae Non memini Legatum in terra mea vidisse nec opus esse iquem esse vocandum Deo gratias nec adhuc opus est omnia benè se habent Nec ●tiam tempore Patris mei vel alicuius Antecessorū meorum visus est aliquis Legatus int●oitum habuisse nec ego dum mei compos suero tolerabo when the Lord Legate was desirous to enter into the Kingdome of Scotland there to deale in Ecclesiasticall matters as he had done in England answered him I doe not remember that I haue seene any Legate in my Countrey nor that there hath beene any neede thanks be to God that any should be called neither is there any neede all things are well No nor in the time of my Father or of any of my Predecessours hath any Legate beene seene to haue had any entrance there neither will I suffer any so long as I am in my right wits This euidence is cleare none had entred in his time none had entred in the time of his Father or any of his Predecessours none should enter so long as he could keepe him in his right minde and though things were amisse yet none had authority to enter but as he should be called and warranted by him The same in effect he alleaged two yeares after when the Legate againe was attempting to goe into that Countrey and though after much adoe vpon intercession of the Nobles of England and Scotland he was content for once to admit him that he might not haue the disgrace of being repulsed yet it was with condition as I haue d See the Aduertisement concerning D. Bishops Reproofe sect 15. formerly declared that the said Legate should put in caution vnder his hand and seale that his entrance should not be drawen to a matter of example whereupon to presume the like another time This matter is more plaine then that M. Bishops paltry shifts can put it off King Philip and Queene Mary respited the entrance of a Legate for a time but wholly to deny him entrance for ordering matters