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A10373 The prerogative of parlaments in England proued in a dialogue (pro & contra) betweene a councellour of state and a iustice of peace / written by the worthy (much lacked and lamented) Sir W. R. Kt. ... ; dedicated to the Kings Maiesty, and to the House of Parlament now assembled ; preserued to be now happily (in these distracted times) published ... Raleigh, Walter, Sir, 1552?-1618. 1628 (1628) STC 20649; ESTC S1667 50,139 75

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first so published that all men might plead it for their advantage but a Charter was left in deposito in the hands of the Archbishop of Canterbury for the time and so to his successours Stephen Langthon who was euer a Traytor to the King produced this Charter and shewed it to the Barons thereby encouraging them to make warre against the King Neither was it the old Charter simplie the Barons sought to haue cōfirmed but they presented vnto the King other articles and orders tending to the alteration of the whole common-wealth which when the King refused to signe the Barons presently put themselues into the field and in rebellious and outragious fashion sent the King word except he confirmed them they would not desist from making warre against him till he had satisfied them therein And in conclusion the king being betrayed of all his Nobility in effect was forced to graunt the Charter of Magna Charta and Charta de Forestis at such time as he was invironed with an Army in the meadowes of Staynes which Charters being procured by force Pope Innocent afterward disavowed threatned to curse the Barons if they submitted not themselues as they ought to their Soueraigne Lord which when the Lords refused to obey the King entertained an army of strangers for his own defence wherewith hauing mastered beaten the Barons they called in Lewes of France a most vnnaturall resolution to be their King Neither was Magna charta a law in the 19 th of Henry the 2● but simply a Charter which hee confirmed in the 21 ● of his reigne made it a law in the 25 th according to Littletons opinion Thus much for the beginning of the great Charter which had first an obscure birth from vsurpation and was secondly fostered shewed to the world by rebellion IVST I cannot deny but that all your Lordship hath said is true but seeing the Charters were afterwards so many times confirmed by Parliament made lawes that there is nothing in them vnequall or prejudicial to the King doth not your Honour thinke it reason they should be obserued COVNS Yes obserued they are in all that the state of a King can permit for no man is destroyed but by the lawes of the land no man disseized of his inheritance but by the lawes of the land imprisoned they are by the prerogatiue wherē the King hath cause to suspect their loyaltie for were it otherwise the King should neuer come to the knowledge of any conspiracy or treason against his Person or state and being imprisoned yet doth not any man suffer death but by the law of the land IVST But may it please your Lordship were not Cornewallis Sharpe Hoskins imprisoned being no suspition of treason there COVNS They were but it cost them nothing IVST And what got the King by it for in the conclusion besides the murmure of the people Cornewallis Sharpe Hoskins hauing greatly ouershot themselues and repented them a fine of 5 or 600 l was laid on his Maiesty for their offences for so much their diet cost his Maiestie COVNS I know who gaue the advice sure I am that it was none of mine But thus I say if you consult your memory you shall finde that those kings which did in their own times confirme the Magna Charta did not onely imprison but they caused of their Nobility and others to bee slaine without hearing or tryall IVST My good Lord if you will giue me leaue to speak freely I say that they are not well advised that perswade the King not to admit the Magna Charta with the former reseruations For as the King can neuer loose a farthing by it as I shall proue anon So except England were as Naples is and kept by Garrisons of another Nation it is impossible for a King of England to greaten and inrich himselfe by any way so assuredly as by the loue of his people For by one rebellion the King hath more losse then by a hundred yeares observance of Magna Charta For therein haue our Kings beene forced to compound with Roagues and Rebels and to pardon them yea the state of the King the Monarchie the Nobility haue beene endangered by them COVNS Well Sir let that passe why should not our kings raise mony as the kings of France doe by their letters and Edicts only for since the time of Lewes the 11 th of whom it is said that hee freed the French Kings of their wardship the French Kings haue seldome assembled the States for any contribution IVST I will tell you why the strength of England doth consist of the people and Yeomanry the Pesants of France haue no courage nor armes In France euery Village and Burrough hath a castle which the French call Chastean Villain euery good citty hath a good Cittadell the king hath the Regiments of his guards and his men at armes alwayes in pay yea the Nobility of France in whom the strength of France consists doe alwaies assist their King in those leavies because them selues being free they make the same leavies vpon their tennants But my Lord if you marke it France was neuer free in effect from ciuill warres and lately it was endangered either to be conquered by the Spaniard or to be cantonized by the rebellious French themselues since that freedome of Wardship But my good Lord to leaue this digression that wherein I would willingly satisfie your Lordship is that the kings of England haue neuer receiued losse by Parliament or preiudice COVNS No Sir you shall find that the subiects in Parliament haue decreed great things to the disadvantage and dishonour of our kings in former times IVST My good Lord to avoide confusion I will make a short repetition of them all and then your Lordship may obiect where you see cause And I doubt not but to giue your Lordship satisfaction In the sixt yeare of Henry the 3 rd there was no dispute the house gaue the King two shillings of euery plough land within England and in the end of the same yeare he had escuage paid him to wit for euery knights fee two markes in siluer In the fifth yeare of that King the Lords demaunded the confirmation of the Great Charter which the kings Councell for that time present excused alleadging that those priviledges were extorted by force during the Kings Minoritie and yet the King was pleased to send forth his writ to the Sheriffes of euery county requiring them to certifie what those liberties vvere and hovv vsed in exchange of the Lords demaund because they pressed him so violently the king required all the castles places which the Lords held of his had held in the time of his Father vvith those Manors Lordships vvhich they had heeretofore vvrested from the Crovvne vvhich at that time the King being provided of forces they durst not deny In the 14 th yeare he had the 15 th peny of all goods giuen him vpon condition to
confirme the great Charter For by reason of the vvars in France the losse of Rochell hee vvas then enforced to cōsent to the Lords in all they demanded In the 10●● of his reigne hee fined the citty of London at 50000 markes because they had receiued Lewes of France In the 11 th yeare in the Parliament at Oxford he revoked the great charter being granted vvhen he vvas vnder age gouerned by the Earle of Pembroke the Bishop of Winchester In this 11 th yeare the Earles of Cornevvall Chester Marshall Edward Earle of Pembroke Gilbert Earle of Gloucester Warren Hereford Ferrars Warwicke others rebelled against the King constrained him to yeeld vnto them in vvhat they demaunded for their particular interest vvhich rebellion being appeased he sayled into France in his 15 th yeare he had a 15 th of the temporality a disme a halfe of the Spirituality and vvithall escuage of euery Knights fee. COVNS But what say you to the Parliament of Westminster in the 16 th of the king where notwithstanding the wars of France and his great charge in repulsing the Welsh rebels he was flatly denyed the Subsedie demaunded IVST I confesse my Lord that the house excused themselues by reason of their pouerty and the Lords taking of Armes in the next yeare it was manifest that the house was practised against the king And was it not so my good Lord thinke you in our two last Parliaments for in the first euen those whom his Majestie trusted most betrayed him in the vnion in the secōd there were other of the great ones ran counter But your Lordship spake of dangers of Parliaments in this my Lord there was a deniall but there was no danger at all But to returne where I left what got the Lords by practizing the house at that time I say that those that brake this staffe vpon the K. were ouerturned with the counterbuffe for hee resumed all those lands which hee had given in his minority hee called all his exacting officers to accompt hee found them all faulty hee examined the corruption of other magistrates and from all these he drew sufficient mony to satisfie his present necessity whereby hee not onely spared his people but highly contented them with an act of so great Iustice Yea Hubert Earle of Kent the chiefe justice whom hee had most trusted and most advanced was found as false to the King as any one of the rest And for conclusion in the end of that yeare at the assemblie of the States at Lambeth the King had the fortith part of euery mans goods given him freely towards his debts for the people who the same yeare had refused to giue the King any thing when they sawe hee had squeased those spunges of the common wealth they willingly yeelded to giue him satisfaction COVNS But I pray you what became of this Hubert whō the King had favoured aboue all men betraying his Majestie as he did IVST There were many that perswaded the King to put him to death but he could not be drawne to consent but the King seized vpon his estate which was great yet in the end hee left him a sufficient portion and gaue him his life because hee had done great service in former times For his Majestie though hee tooke advantage of his vice yet hee forgot not to haue consideration of his vertue And vpon this occasion it was that the King betrayed by those whom hee most trusted entertayned strangers and gaue them their offices and the charge of his castles and strong places in England COVNS But the drawing in of those strangers was the cause that Marshall Earle of Pembroke moued warre against the King IVST It is true my good Lord but hee was soone after slaine in Ireland and his whole masculine race ten yeres extinguished though there were fiue sonnes of them Marshall being dead who was the mouer and ring-leader of that warre the King pardoned the rest of the Lords that had assisted Marshall COVNS What reason had the King so to doe IVST Because he was perswaded that they loued his person only hated those corrupt Counselours that then bare the greatest sway vnder him as also because they were the best men of warre hee had whom if he destroyed hauing warre with the French he had wanted Commanders to haue served him COVNS But what reason had the Lords to take armes IVST Because the King entertayned the Poictoui●s were not they the Kings vassals also Should the Spaniards rebell because the Spanish King trusts to the Neopolitans Portagues Millanoies and other nations his vassals seeing those that are governed by the Vice-royes and deputies are in pollicy to be well entertayned and to be employed who would otherwise devise how to free themselues whereas beeing trusted and imployed by their Prince they entertaine themselues with the hopes that other the Kings vassals doe if the King had called in the Spaniards or other Nations not his Subjects the Nobility of England had had reason of griefe But what people did euer serue the King of England more faithfully then the Gascoynes did even to the last of the conquest of that Duchy IVST Your Lordship sayes wel I am of that opinion that if it had pleased the Queene of Eng. to haue drawne some of the chiefe of the Irish Nobility into Eng. by exchange to haue made them good freeholders in Eng. shee had saued aboue 2. millions of pounds which were consumed in times of those rebellions For what held the great Gascoigne firme to the Crowne of England of whom the Duke of Espernon married the inheritrix but his Earldome of Kendall in England whereof the Duke of Espernon in right of his wife beares the title to this day And to the same end I take it hath Iames our Soueraigne Lord given lands to divers of the Nobility of Scotland And if I were worthy to advise your Lordship I should thinke that your Lordship should do the King great service to put him in mind to prohibite all the Scottish nation to alienate and sell away their inheritance here for they selling they not only giue cause to the English to complaine that the treasure of England is transported into Scotland but his Majesty is thereby also frustrated of making both Nations one and of assuring the service and obedience of the Scots in future COVNS You say well for though those of Scotland that are advanced and enriched by the Kings Majesties will no doubt serue him faithfully yet how their heires successours hauing no inheritance to loose in England may be seduced is vncertaine But let vs goe on with our Parliament And what say you to the deniall in the 26 ● yeare of his reigne even when the King was invited to come into France by the Earle of March who had married his mother and who promised to assist the King in the conquest of many places lost IVST It is true my
good Lord that a subsidy was then denied the reasons are delivered in Enlish histories indeed the King not long before had spent much treasure in ayding the Duke of Britaine to no purpose for hee drew ouer the King but to drawe on good conditions for himselfe as the Earle of March his father in law now did As the English Barons did invite Lewes of France not long before as in elder times all the kings and states had done and in late yeares the Leaguers of France entertayned the Spaniards and the French Protestants and Netherlands Queene Elizabeth not with any purpose to greaten those that ayde them but to purchase to themselues an advantageous peace But what say the histories to this deniall they say with a world of payments there mentioned that the King had drawne the Nobility drie And besides that whereas not long before great summes of mony were giuen and the same appointed to be kept in foure castles and not to be expended but by the aduice of the Peeres it was beleeved that the same treasure was yet vnspent COVNS Good Sir you haue said enough judge you whether it were not a dishonour to the King to be so tyed as not to expend his treasure but by other mens aduice as it were by their licence IVST Surely my Lord the King was well aduised to take the mony vpon any condition they were fooles that propounded the restraint for it doth not appeare that the King tooke any great heed to those ouerseers Kings are bound by their piety and by no other obligation In Queene Maries time when it was thought that shee was with child it was propounded in Parliament that the rule of the Realme should bee giuen to king Philip during the minority of the hoped Prince or Princesse and the king offered his assurance in great summes of money to relinquish the government at such time as the Prince or Princesse should bee of age At which motion when all else were silent in the house Lord Dueres who was none of the wisest asked who shall sue the kinges bondes which ended the dispute for what bonde is betweene a king and his vassals then the bond of the kinges faith But my good Lord the king notwithstanding the deniall at that time was with gifts from perticular parsons otherwise supplyed for proceeding of his iourney for that time into France he tooke with him 30 caskes filled with silver and coyne which was a great treasure in those dayes And lastly notwithstanding the first denyall in the Kings absence hee had Escuage graunted him to wit 20 s of euery Knights Fee COVNS What say you then to the 28● yeare of that King in which when the King demaunded reliefe the states would not consent except the same former order had bin taken for the appointing of 4 overseers for the treasure As also that the Lord chief Iustice the Lord Chancellor should be chosē by the states with some Barōs of the exchequor other officers IVS My good Lord admit the King had yeelded their demaunds then whatsoever had beene ordained by those magistrates to the dislike of the Common wealth the people had beene without remedie whereas while the King made them they had their appeale and other remedies But those demaunds vanished and in the end the King had escuage giuen him without any of their conditions It is an excellent vertue in a King to haue patience and to giue way to the fury of mens passions The whale when he is stroken by the fisherman growes into that fury that he cannot be resisted but will overthrowe all the ships and barkes that come in to his way but when he hath tumbled a while hee is drawne to the shore with a twind thred COVNS What say you then to the Parliament in the 29 th of that King IVST I say that the commons being vnable to pay the king relieues himselfe vpon the richer sort and soe it likewise happened in the 33 of that king in which hee was relieued chiefely by the Citty of London But my good Lord in the Parliament in London in the 38 yeare he had giuen him the tenth of all the revenues of the Church for three yeares and 3 markes of every knights Fee throughout the kingdome vpō his promise oath vpon the obscruing of magna Charta but in the end of the same yeare the king being thē in France he was denyed the aydes which he required What is this to the danger of a Parliament especially at this time they had reason to refuse they had giuen so great a some in the beginning of the same yeare And again because it was known that the King had but pretended warre with the king of Castile with whome he had secretly contracted an alliance and concluded a marriage betwixt his sonne Edward and the Lady Elenor. These false fires doe but freight Children and it commonly falles out that when the cause giuen is knowne to be false the necessity pretended is thought to be fained Royall dealing hath euermore Royall successe and as the King was denied in the eight thirtyeth yeare so was he denyed in the nine thirtieth yeare because the Nobility and the people saw that the King was abused by the Pope it plainly who aswell in despite to Manfred bastard son to the Emperour Fredericke the second as to cozen the King and to wast him would needes bestowe on the King the kingdome of Sicilie to recouer which the King sent all the treasure he could borrow or scrape to the Pope and withall gaue him letters of credence for to take vp what he could in Italy the King binding himselfe for the payment Now my good Lord the wisdome of Princes is seen in nothing more then in their enterprises So how vnpleasing it was to the State of England to consume the treasure of the land in the conquest of Sicily so farre of and otherwise for that the English had lost Normandy vnder their noses and so many goodly parts of France of their owne proper inheritances the reason of the deniall is as well to be considered as the denyall CONS Was not the King also denyed a subsidie in the fourty first of his raigne IVST No my Lord for although the King required mony as before for the impossible conquest of Sicily yet the house offered to giue 52000 markes which whether hee refused or accepted is vncertaine whilst the King dreamed of Sicily the Welsh inuaded spoyled the borders of England for in the Parliament of London when the King vrged the house for the prosecuting the cōquest of Sicily the Lords vtterly disliking the attempt vrged the prosecuting of the Welshmen which Parlament being proroged did again assemble at Oxford was called the madde Parlamēt which was no other thē an assembly of rebels for the Royall assent of the K. which giues life to all lawes form'd by the three estates was not a Royal assent when both
they neuer so great as great as Gyants yet if they disswade the King from his ready and assured way of his subsistence they must devise how the K. may be else-where supplied for they otherwise runne into a dangerous fortune COVNS Hold you contented Sir the King needes no great disswasion IVST My Lord learne of me that there is none of you all that can pierce the King It is an essentiall property of a man truely wise not to open all the boxes of his bosome even to those that are neerest and deerest vnto him for when a man is discovered to the very bottome he is after the lesse esteemed I dare vndertake that when your Lordship hath served the King twice twelue yeares more you will finde that his Majestie hath reserved somewhat beyond all your capacities his Majestie hath great reason to put off the Parliament as his last refuge and in the meane time to make triall of all your loues to serue him for his Majestie hath had good experience how well you can serue your selues But when the King finds that the building of your owne fortunes and factions hath beene the diligent studies and the service of his Majestie but the exercises of your leisures Hee may then perchance cast himself vpon the general loue of his people of which I trust hee shall never bee deceiued and leaue as many of your Lordships as haue pilfered from the Crowne to their examination COVNS Well Sir I take no great pleasure in this dispute goe on I pray IVST In that Kinges 5 th yeare hee had also a subsedy which he got by holding the house together from Easter to Christmas and would not suffer them to depart He had also a subsedie in his ninth yeare In his eleventh yeare the Commons did againe presse the king to take all the temporalities of the Church-men into his hands which they proved sufficient to maintaine 150 Earles 1500 knights and 6400 Esquiers with a hundred hospitals but they not prevayling gaue the King a subsedy As for the notorious Prince Henry the fift I finde that he had given him in his second yeare 300000 markes and after that two other subsedies one in his fifth yeare another in his ninth without any disputes In the time of his successour Henry the sixt there where not many subsedies In his third yeare he had a subsedy of a Tunnage and Poundage And here saith Iohn Stom began those payments which wee call customes because the payment was continued whereas before that time it was granted but for a yeare two or three according to the Kings occasions Hee had also an ayde and gathering of money in his fourth yeare and the like in his tenth yeare and in his thirteenth yere a 15 th He had also a fifteenth for the conveying of the Queene out of France into England In the twenty eight yeare of that King was the acte of Resumption of all honours townes castles Signieuries villages Manors lands tenements rents reversions fees c. But because the wages of the Kings seruants were by the strictnes of the acte also restrained this acte of Resumption was expounded in the Parliament at Reading the 31 th yeare of the Kings reigne COVNS I perceiue that those acts of Resumption were ordinary in former times for King Stephen resumed the lands which in former times hee had giuen to make friends during the Ciuill warres And Henry the second resumed all without exception which King Stephen had not resumed for although King Stephen tooke backe a great deale yet hee suffered his trustiest seruants to enjoye his gift IVST Yes my Lord in after times also for this was not the last nor shall be the last I hope And judge you my Lord whether the Parliaments doe not only serue the King whatsoeuer is said to the contrary for as all King Henry the 6 gifts graunts were made voide by the Duke of Yorke when he was in possession of the kingdome by Parliament So in the time of K. H. when K. Edw was beaten out again the Parliament of Westminster made all his acts voyde made him all his followers traytors gaue the King many of their heads lands The Parliaments of England do alwaies serue the King in possession It seru'd Rich. the second to condemne the popular Lords It seru'd Bollingbrooke to depose Rich. When Edw. the 4. had the Scepter it made them all beggars that had followed H. the 6. And it did the like for H. when Edw. was driuen out The Parliaments are as the friendship of this world is which alwayes followeth prosperity For K. Edw. the 4 after that hee was possessed of the Crown he had in his 13 yeare a subsedy freely giuen him in the yeare following hee tooke a benevolence through England which arbitrary taking frō the people seru'd that ambitious traytor the Duke of Bucks After the Kings death was a plausible argument to perswade the multitude that they should not permit saith Sir Thomas Moore his line to raigne any longer vpon them COVNS Well Sir what say you to the Parliament of Richard the third his time IVST I finde but one and therein he made diuerse good Lawes For K. Henry the seuenth in the beginning of his third yeare hee had by Parliament an ayde granted vnto him towards the reliefe of the Duke of Brittaine then assailed by the French King And although the King did not enter into the warre but by the advice of the three estates who did willingly contribute Yet those Northerne men which loued Richard the third raised rebellion vnder colour of the mony impos'd murthered the Earle of Northumberland whom the King employed in that Collection By which your Lordship sees that it hath not beene for taxes and impositions alone that the ill disposed haue taken Armes but euen for those payments which haue beene appoynted by Parliament COVNS And what became of those Rebels IVST They were fairely hang'd and the mony levied notwithstanding in the Kings first yeare he gathered a marvailous great masse of mony by a benevolence taking patterne by this kind of levie from Edw. 4 th But the King caused it first to be moued in Parliament where it was allowed because the poorer sort were therein spared Yet it is true that the king vsed some arte for in his Letters hee declared that hee would measure euery mans affections by his gifts In the thirteenth yeare hee had also a subsedy whereupon the Cornish men tooke Armes as the Northerne men of the Bishoppricke had done in the third yeare of the King COVNS It is without example that euer the people haue rebelled for any thing granted by Parliament saue in this kings dayes IVST Your Lordship must consider that he was not ouer much belou'd for hee tooke many advantages vpon the people and the Nobility both COVNS And I pray you what say they now of the new impositions lately laide by the Kings Maiesty doe they say that