For how knoweth he that it offendeth the present State her Majestie her honorable Councell and other magistrats that any should affect the king of Scots and preferre him before all others after her Majesties decease The present State maketh no shew at all of any such auersion from the king of Scots and his title Fa. Parsons then vpon his own surmise should not affirme so odious a thing VVhich if it bee true and so conceiued vpon his assertion it may very well be matter of disgust and quarrell betweene her Majestie and that king and perhaps touch the present State with dissimulation of kindnesse towards him And if it bee false it must bee very injurious to the present State and both their royall persons And for vs what temeritie and vncharitable dealing is this in a Iesuite to write That so many Catholicke priests are Scotists in faction and that without any respect of religion at all they are about to set vp the king of Scots a knowne hereticke and this to offend now the present State If wee should goe about such an enterprise no doubt but we should greeuously offend the present State no lesse than the Iesuites haue done by their endeuours to set vp a Spaniard it beeing prohibited by the lawes of the realme vnder a capitall penaltie That none shall meddle with the matter of succession during her Majesties life that now is much lesse attempt the setting vp of any before her Majestie be dead And in this case if it had been true perhaps it had not beseemed Father Parsons to haue beene the first bewrayer of vs and discouerer of our fault and thereby bring vs all in mortall hatred with the State and in manifest daunger of our liues he knowing that it would so mightily offend them But it being altogether vntrue on our parts and no other than his owne jealous imagination hee hath done vs intollerable injurie thus to make vs odious to our owne Prince and State without our ill deseruing I can perceiue no other drift hee should haue in this calumnie than all his other deuises failing by this vntrue fiction to vndoe vs whom he reckoneth his aduersaries He knew when he writ this letter that wee went about to procure a prohibition That no bookes or Treatises of State-matters should be published which might any way exasperate her Majestie and the present State against vs which came onely to plant Catholick religion among our countreymen whosoeuer they were that should gouerne the kingdome this I say hee knew very well How then in a charitable mind could he thinke it likely that we our selues were about to set vp the king of Scots which as he confesseth would most of all offend the present State VVee desired to auoid all occasions of offence and this good Father will neuerthelesse accuse vs to offend in the highest degree It is not conuenient nor safe for vs to follow Father Parsons designes in these matters of princes and kingdomes and therefore he and his associats must pardon vs if we dislike their doings and quite refuse to joine with them Gent. It behoueth you to doe no lesse especially in these daungerous times when a man shall hazard much and loose all ere he be aware But surely Father Parsons had some notable pollicie in his head about these State-affaires when hee procured That the Arch-priest his authoritie should bee extended ouer all English priests in England and Scotland Priest Hee had no other than that by this absurd meane hee might further the Spanish title and hinder the Scots For when he procured this authoritie the Catholicke Archbishop of Glasco was liuing and releeued by the kings consent and graunt out of the reuenues of his Bishopricke And yet was this Archp. authoritie stretched throughout all the kingdome of Scotland without any respect or subordination at all to that Archbishop for no other end but that there should bee no friendship familiaritie conuersation nor communion betweene our priests and the Catholickes of Scotland and thereby the people of both nations be kept still at their auncient mortall enmitie Gent. Mee thinkes this cannot bee but very vncharitable and absurd For the English priests hauing from his Holinesse jurisdiction to minister Sacraments as well in Scotland as in England why should they not as freely if they bee so disposed helpe to saue the Scots as the English Or why should that people for a controuersie about Titles and Crownes be debarred of their spirituall releefe by our priests considering they haue almost none of their owne The worke of God should not be hindered through these vaine respects And againe it seemeth that Father Parsons pollicies in temporall matters blinded his judgement in spirituall For how vnfitting and vnseemely is it That an Archpriest in England should haue his authoritie extended into the diocesse of an Archbishop in another kingdome without any dependance or subordination vnto him VVhat can be more injurious both to the Archbishop and to the Priests than this The priests be free and at their owne choice it is VVhether they will continue and labour in these dangerous workes or leaue them If wearie of England they passe into Fraunce Germanie Spaine or any other part of Christendome except Scotland they are without the Archpriest his jurisdiction the Bishops of those countries may dispose of them but if for their owne safeties or for desire of sauing soules or for any other good respect they depart into Scotland the Catholicke Archbishop there cannot dispose of them not employ them nor hold them otherwise than the Archpriest in London will giue them leaue in his power it is and not in the Arch-bishops within his owne See what authoritie and faculties they shall haue whether they shall vse anie part of their function or no and finally hee may enforce them either to leaue that kingdome how needfull soeuer they be for Christian soules or else to remaine vnable to doe them good with many moe like inconueniences Priest The disorder is exceeding preposterous and shamefull but thus it pleased Father Parsons to frame all to his owne purpose without regard either of Priests or Archbishops or Christian soules or Christ himselfe But to end this point of their slaunder with a manifest confutation and shew of their ill dealing with vs I pray you conferre this That wee be Scotists in faction and that wee deale in matters of State with their other slaunder which wee haue alreadie touched before that was That wee are highly fauoured by the State and maintained by the Councell and Magistrates wee need no more but for a sufficient confutation to set the one against the other For if it be true That we be Statesmen and goe about to set vp the king of Scots and withall that this most of all doth offend the present State as they say it cannot surely be true that we are highly fauoured and maintained by the State and Councell as they report for our disgrace Because the State and Councell will not fauour nor releeue them that so greatly offend them by their dealing in state matters Or againe if this latter be true That the Councel fauour and maintaine vs it must of necessitie bee false That we offend them by tampering for the king of Scots But whiles vndiscreet zeale and vncharitable affections mooue the Iesuits and their adherents to injurie vs by all meanes they can they run themselues headlong into these absurdities to make one of their slaunders to confute another For they all beeing vntruths vttered vpon a mightie stomacke and a vehement desire to discredit vs they hang together and agree like Sampsons Foxes but our innocencie and truth I hope will preuaile in the end against all mallice and iniquitie and cunning shifts FINIS
hereticall or an euill prince VVhat can they say to the Bishops and Pastours in the Low countries and the Vniuersities of Doway whom they reckon to be their aduersaries by reason of the great contentions had betweene them about eight yeares ago VVhat to the Vniuersities of Louaine with whome they haue had bickering since VVhat to the whole order of Dominicans letting passe other religious betweene whom and them there hath been of long as is continuall bitter strifes in Spaine as all the world knoweth And all these included in Fa. Parsons ougly beadroll If all these be of bad disposition and gracelesse because they be the Iesuits aduersaries then haue we also good cause to dread but if contrariwise these be reported to be their aduersaries and are indeed no lesse than we and yet knowne to be good Catholick men Vniuersities and orders it is no true cause of disgrace vnto vs if we be reported also their aduersaries for defending our selues against their violent injuries and for resisting their other courses manifestly hurtfull to our whole church Gent. VVhat is the cause that they make these troubles and giue such discontent almost in euery place where they come Pr. Surely not any perfection of vertue that is in them aboue other religious men but their polliticke tampering and their busie stirring both in temporall states and Ecclesiasticall For they being not tied to keepe the quire with diuine offices as other religious orders bee they haue more leisure and libertie than any other to occupie themselues in matters impertinent vnto them It is their glorie to bee euer stirring in the greatest affaires and with the greatest personages where they come yea they delight so much in the actiue life that their young men are no sooner out of their nouiceship or course in learning but if there be ought in them they begin to tamper and to become polliticke and must be thought sufficient to mannage any businesse I remember I haue read in an Italian hystorie written by a gentleman of Genua touching the late king of Portugall Sebastian and the competitors to that crowne after his death how the Iesuits greatly fauoured by that king disturbed not a little the peace of that kingdome by their tampering in the princes affaires where the author noteth how with great indiscretion as vpon a head and suddainely they would haue reformed the corrupt manners of the countrey Againe how by the Cardinals meanes they procured the displacing of some auncient officers about the king and brought in such as depended on themselues to no small discontentment of many And lastly how especially vpon the Iesuits motion and persuasion the king entertained the Affricane affaires and resolued to vndertake that fatall voyage from which yet they could not afterwards dissuade him when it was misliked and thought daungerous by all his friends This Historie is now in English See page 9. 10. 11. c. because they had set him too farre in liking therwith before But at the last they wrought themselues out of fauour with the king as he sayth for they would ouerrule all Gent. I would see that hystorie Pr. I thinke you may haue it in England it is in Octauo and printed in Italie as I remember Gent. By likelyhood then this busie intermeddling of theirs in Vniuersities in kingdomes in the charges of Bishops and Pastours c. is the cheefe cause why they worke these troubles euery where Pr. Verely I thinke it be For among them he is most esteemed that can shew himself most politicke most stirring and vndertaking especially with greatest estates and highest matters Gent. These humours are not in them all For I know diuers of them very good simple and vertuous men which trouble their heads with nothing except their studie and deuotion Pr. There be some of them no doubt such as you say continuing in the simplicitie and good zeale wherewith they first entered and encreasing their spirituall graces These though they must sooth the humors of the rest and in all things defend their actions yet delight not to be busie and stickling in others mens affaires and indeed these be the glorie of their societie and deserue loue and honour aboue the rest But there be few of this sort considering it is a credit among themselues to be actiue and politick and no small contention who may bee thought most to excell in these Gent. Yet many good men thinke much and marvell what should be the cause why you secular priests should be aduersaries to the Iesuits haue contentions with them and especially with Fa. Parsons who is most esteemed of among the Iesuits for his wisdome and other good parts and who also hath wrought great good to our Nation by his booke of Resolution which argueth him to bee a vertuous man and by erecting Semenaries for the education of our yong men And generally the Iesuits seek not their owne temporall benefit but bestow themselues onely for the good of others many say that without them our Church had bene in worse case than it is Againe that it is but a slaunder that they entermeddle in the mattets of you secular priests or that they haue any dealings in the affaires of temporall estates It is no just cause giuen you by them but your own vnmortified passions and disobedient minds to your lawfull superiors which make you to repine and mammer and to exclaime against them Priest For the Iesuits in generall I neuer said nor thought other but that if they keepe themselues onely at these good exercises of preaching of ministring sacraments without prejudice to the ordinarie Pastors of catechising of teaching in schooles of visiting the sicke and liuing as brethren and fellow labourers in Gods worke seeke the estimation of the secular cleargie among their people I neuer thoght I say but that they be very profitable coadjutors in Christs church and deserue loue and reuerence of all sorts But if withall they become officious sticklers in princes affaires Ecclesiasticall or temporall or busie themselues with entermedling in the secular Cleargies matters which belong not to them and seeke to aduaunce themselues in credit and otherwise aboue the priests as in England they haue done I then thinke them very dangerous and noysome members in any church for the subuersion of peace and good order because vpon that disposition forthwith they bring in great deuisions and draw both priests and people into lamentable factions as is manifest in this poore realme At VVisbich you haue heard how they made very scandalous contentions about establishing a superioritie in one of theirs aboue all the other prisoners You haue heard also how they hindered the vnion of secular priests in a confraternitie how they withstood our endeuors touching Bishops or Suffraganes how without our consents or priuitie they procured an Arch-priest to be ordained ouer all English priests in England and Scotland they onely appointing what kind of superioritie and gouernement our Church should haue and
contentions pollicies contempt of priests falshoods in fellowship a distrust or a feare each of other slaunders infamies and a generall decay of vertue and deuotion as now the matter is brought vnto and had neuer ben likely to haue entered if they had not come amongst vs. And sure I am that the cheefe noursey of our church that is the Seminarie of Doway is exceedingly decaied since the Iesuits had the mannaging of things especially of the almes purse in England And for the Seminarie also in Rome no man can reprooue vs of an vntruth if wee say that it in like sort hath suffered no small detriment since the death of Cardinall Allen. Gent. But these losses are recompenced abundantly by the erection of new Colledges in Spaine by Father Parsons Priest It is a vain glorious boast and a fiction The losse receiued in those two Seminaries is not recompenced in halfe by all that Fa. Parsons hath done as by and by I shall declare Touching that part of their report where it is maruelled why we should bee aduersaries to the Iesuits I haue answered it sufficiently before Now it remaineth that wee speake of Fa. Parsons VVhat say you of him Gent. Marry many thinke it strange you should be at dissention with him hee beeing a man so well thought of and esteemed both in his owne order and by the most that know him his booke of Resolution argueth him to be a holy man and his endeuours in erecting Seminaries for our countrey sheweth that he is both a good man and most carefull for the good of our countrey and to bee far from doing any of you wrong in the least thing that may be c. Pr. If Fa. Parsons haue deepely wronged vs men need not to wonder that there should bee contentions betweene him and vs. It is no whit likely that we should stomacke the man or contend with him vnlesse he had giuen vs cause VVee will therefore discusse this point and touch all the rest which you haue mentioned for his commendation but let vs take them in order as you spoke them For the credit and estimation he hath among men of his owne order it is with some of them good and with others very meane and they all generally repute him to be very polliticke and of a busie and stirring disposition more desirous in all things to draw all men to his owne will yea and violently to enforce thereto such as be weaker than hee is to follow any other mans aduise or course I know some Iesuits his seniors in religion men of better talent than he who looking into his peremptorie and headie courses haue often censured thus vpon him That he was too contentious and wilfull and that it were better for their religion and the world also that hee were shut vp for euer in some religious house than to bee stickling abroad and tampering in all matters as hee dooth which must of necessitie in the end turne to the harme of many and to the discredit of their society after his deuises come to light Also I haue credibly heard that others should often complaine and say of him That their societie was more troubled and disquieted yea and discredited by the deuises and importunitie of one Englishman Father Parsons than by all the men of other countries besides for hee neuer ceaseth wrangling and contending with one or other and with many at once I haue my selfe heard a Scottish Iesuit farre his auncient in the societie of a good account to inveigh greatly against Father Parsons violent nature and courses and to condemne his polliticke and cunning entermedling in all matters to the hurt of many and to the discredit of their order Father Holts and Fa. Hawoods opinion of him was these Iesuits I name because they be dead that he was of a violent and imperious disposition in most things and with the most men hee dealt with neuer quiet vnlesse hee ouer-ruled all exquisit cunning with flatterie and fawning to bring others to his bend and if this would not win them then to be most fierce and violent vtterly to breake them that should stand in his way The religious Fa. hath found many occasions and deuised many shifts these twentie yeares and more that hee might liue abroad out of his order and be employed to sollicite affaires in princes courts or to haue rule and commaund in Colledges And the conceit he carrieth of his owne wit and sufficiencie maketh him to attempt any thing and euer to bee vnwilling to condescend to any mans aduise but his owne The men of his owne societie also note this in him That hee hath a speciall regard to haue the whole managing of English affaires and that no other of his bretheren how auncient wise or learned soeuer shall communicat with him in these matters or haue any dealing vnlesse they yeeld themselues in euery point to follow his directions and courses and be wholly at his commaundement And they say this only to be the cause why he hath hindered all the grauest and most sufficient English Iesuits beyond the seas to come into the realme or to entermeddle in the wielding of our Churches affaires least forsooth they should refuse to follow his deuises and by a more discreet and temperate course both win from him the credit and beare away the principal stroke and commaund Thus much for the estimation he hath among many good men of his owne societie Gent. There be very many yet which thinke well of him Priest No doubt but diuers thinke better of him than he deserueth or than they would do when they shall come to vnderstand his vncharitable deuises and what discredit hee hath brought both vpon our English church and vpon his owne societie by his cunning and intemperat dealing In the meane while they will like him well as long as hee standeth them in stead either in England Spaine or elswhere Gent. He is much esteemed in Spaine and in Rome by all the Spanish fauourites Pr. He is so and no marvell it is For what prince would not much esteeme a man that can entitle him and his to the kingdome of England raise vp a broken claime from before two hundred yeares and so handle the matter with a cunning flourish that it must bee made to seeme the best and likeliest of all that haue been since For not onely hee aduaunceth the surmised Spanish Title but disgraceth in what he may and weakeneth all the rest This his plotting about the crowne and kingdome of England and sharing it to the Ladie Infanta with deuising probable meanes as he persuadeth them to effect his plot made him very famous and highly esteemed in that nation and woon to him such singular grace of the old King the Ladie Infanta and all their friends that his word might doe much in any matter either to pleasure his friend or displeasure his aduersary Hence also doth proceed the fauour and credit he hath with the Embassadour of Spaine and
Doway So that in trueth his endeauours in erecting new Colledges or Seminaries haue rather much diminished the commoditie and decayed the good of our Countrey than encreased it and then consequently Fa. P. deserueth small thanks for his labour Gent. How can this be possible Priest Thus First you will grant me that it is the greater benefit and good of our Countrey the moe students wee haue brought vp in the Seminaries which become priests and yeeld themselues to labor in our English haruest Gent. I cannot denie this for the greatest increase of our Cleargie is our Countries greater good Pr. But before Fa. P. erected his there were moe good priests yeerely sent from Rome and Rhemes or Doway into England than is or hath bene yeerely since from those two and all the rest besides Gent. How happened this Pr. Marry before Fa Par. erected his and before the Iesuits had the greatest stroke in monie matters in England it is well knowne that in the Colledge at Rhemes there were sometimes eight score otherwhiles 200 or 220. of our Countrie-men old and yong students now the number is diminished to 60. All that came were well-come and friendly entertained none rejected brought they money or brought they none now can none bee receiued without a grosse summe of monie or else a yearely stipend vnlesse he be fit at the first to studie Diuinitie and either not at all or very hardly can any be entertained vnlesse he be sent or commended by the Iesuits and Archp-riest In those dayes sixteene priests or moe were sent into England in one yeere now three or foure bee many then the renowned fame and glory of the Colledge drew vnto it good schollers and ancient men from the Vniuersities of Oxford and Cambridge but now it hath lost the ancient credit and thought a meeter schoole for boyes than for men then it was a famous Nurserie for the best Literature now the science of scholasticall Diuinitie is not much respected if it be not altogether laid aside I let passe to speake what difference there is betweene those old and these new gouernours Gent. This is a wonderfull decay of likelyhood the ordinarie stipends are withdrawn which came yearly from Spaine and Rome Priest No they are still allowed Gent. VVhat then is the cause of this ruine Pr. No other but the diuerting away of the almes vsually sent out of England to supplie the necessities of that Colledge for receiuing these the house flourished and could doe much and wanting them all must of necessitie decay Gent. Are the Iesuits to blame for this Priest VVould to God they were not But thus much is certaine larger almes were neuer giuen than hath been these late yeares againe it hath ben obserued That the more the Iesuits be in credit and got into their hands the disposing of things especially the almes-purse the lesse releefe hath beene sent to that Colledge out of England yea not an hundred markes in three or foure yeares Gent. VVhich way thinke you these almes are implied Pr. I know not but as I told you the prisoners in England the poore priests and Catholicks neuer suffered such great want of releefe as they haue done these late years the Iesuits indeed haue abundance but so great summes cannot be consumed vpon thēselues only some other passage there is for it doubtlesse we will not speak what many surmise and mutter secretly of buying annuities of putting into banke beyond the seas for two thousand pound they say was intercepted this yeare going ouer from whence or whether it is not known to me more than that generally it was reported to be sent by the Iesuits or of maintaining Iesuits in other countries Let these passe and be they true or false it is not to bee thought other but the Fathers here will haue a speciall eie to the Colledges which themselues haue ben a meane to erect Gent. It is very well if it goe to them Priest It is better so than worse But marke now what dammage ensueth thereby to our Church The Colledge of S. Omers is onely for children none except their parents bee deare to the Iesuits can haue place there vnlesse hee bring with him fortie pounds or fiftie pounds or more or haue some good annuitie to maintaine him Now the Colledge of Doway or Rhemes entertained indifferently all that came and vpon the vsuall almes sent from England maintained them albeit they brought nothing but if this Colledge at S. Omers for children that come also well prouided intercept or receiue the almes which were accustomed to bee sent to Doway or Rhemes for the maintenance not of as many children onely but also of at the least foure times as many priests as be there now is it not manifest that our countrey looseth far more at Doway than it gaineth at S. Omers by erecting of a Colledge there Gent. It may be that this notable defect is supplied by the two Colledges in Spaine Priest I perceiue not that it is so For both they returne not into England yearely so many priests by farre as are wanting now in the number accustomed yearely to bee sent from Rhemes and so the great dammage remaineth still VVhen Doctor Barret president of the Colledge at Rhemes perceiued this hurtfull effect to befall our countrey by Fa. Parsons diligence in erecting these new Colledges hee writ seriously to him about the matter and assured him That it was much better to maintaine the Colledge of Rhemes which was the beginner of all our countries happinesse next to God and was the greatest glorie and good of our Nation than to build new ones to the decay of this but Fa. Parsons after his fashion impatient of any admonition tooke his aduise in very ill part and to correct the Presidents boldnesse forslowed as was thought to procure the Spanish pension till the Colledge was almost vndone and dissolued Gent. This is a very great losse to our countrey and yet noted by few or none Priest Nay the Iesuits beare you in hand of inestimable benefits receiued by these new Colledges Gent. They doe so indeed but these benefites bee onely in conceit I see now Priest You will see it better if to this I haue alreadie told you wee adde the multitude of our schollers which are consumed by the distemperat air of Spain and die there for S. Omers is no more but to bring vp children in humanitie and after to send them to Spaine which losse also had been preuented by the vpholding of the Colledge at Rhemes or Doway regions more agreeable with our English nature than Valle de Leith or Ciuill Againe if we consider another exceeding great losse of our countreymen gouerned by the Iesuits and which was euer auoided at Rhemes Doway gouerned by our secular priests we haue good cause to thinke our countrey to gaine nothing by these new Colledges for continully they entice and allure many of our finest wits and most towardly youth from the ordinarie vocation