Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	edward_n	king_n	normandy_n	2,635	5	11.0549	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A56321	The declaration of John Pym Esquire upon the whole matter of the charge of high treason against Thomas Earle of Strafford, April 12, 1641 with An argument of law concerning the bill of attainder of high treason of the said Earle of Strafford, before a committee of both Houses of Parliament, in Westminster Hall by Mr. St. Iohn His Majesties solicitor Generall, on Thursday, April 29, 1641 / both published by order of the Commons House.	Pym, John, 1584-1643.; St. John, Oliver, 1598?-1673. Argument of law concerning the bill of attainder of high-treason of Thomas Earle of Strafford.	1641 (1641)	Wing P4262; ESTC R182279	46,678	116

The Kings writ runs not within the County Palatine of Chester and Durham nor within the five Ports neither did it in Wales before the union in Henry the eighth's time after the Lawes of England were brought into Wales in King Edward the first 's time suits were not originally commenced in Westminst Hall for things done in them yet this never excluded the Parliament suits for life lands and goods within those jurisdictions are determinable in Parliament as well as in any other parts of the Realme Ireland as appeares by the Statute of the thirtieth yeer of Henry the third before mentioned is united to the Crowne of England By the Statute of the eight and twentieth yeere of Henry the sixth in Ireland it is declared in these words That Ireland is the proper Dominion of England and united to the Crowne of England which Crowne of England is of it selfe and by it selfe fully wholly and entirely endowed with all power and authority sufficient to yeeld to the subjects of the same full and plenary remedy in all debates and suits whatsoever By the Statute of the three and thirtieth yeer of Henry the eighth the first Chapter when the Kings of England first assumed the title of King of Ireland it is there enacted That Ireland still is to bee held as a Crown annexed and united to the Crown of England So that by the same reason from this that the Kings writ runs not in Ireland it might aswell bee held that the Parliament cannot originally hold plea of things done within the County Palatine of Chester Durham nor within the five Ports Wales Ireland is part of the Realme of England as appears by those Statutes aswell as any of them This is made good by constant practice In all the Parliament rolls from the first to the last there are receivers and tryers of petitions appointed for Ireland For the Irish to come so farre with their petitions for justice and the Parliament not to have cognizance when from time to time they had in the beginning of the Parliament appointed receivers and tryers of them is a thing not to bee presumed An appeale in Ireland brought by William Lord Vescye against John Fitz Thomas for treasonable words there spoken before any Judgement given in the case there was removed into the Parliament in England and there the defendant acquitted as appeares in the Parliament pleas of the two and twentieth yeere of Edward the first The suits for lands offices and goods originally begun here are many and if question grew upon matter in fact a Jury usually ordered to try it and the verdict returned into Parliament as in the case of one Balliben in the Parliament of the five and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first If doubt arose upon a matter triable by Record a writ went to the Officers in whose custody the Record remained to certifie the Record as was in the case of Robert Bagot the same Parliament of the five and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first where the writs went to the Treasurer and Barons of the Exchequer Sometimes they gave judgement here in Parliament and commanded the Judges there in Ireland to doe execution as in the great case of petition between the coparceners of the Earle Marshall in the Parliament of the three and thirtieth yeere of Edward the first where the writ was awarded to the Treasurer of Ireland My Lords The Lawes of Ireland were introduced by the Parliaments of England as appeares by three Acts of Parliament before cited It is of higher jurisdiction dare Leges then to judge by them The Parliaments of England doe binde in Ireland if Ireland bee particularly mentioned as is resolved in the Book case of the first yeere of Henry the seventh Cokes seventh Report Calvins case and by the Judges in Trinity Terme in the three and thirtieth yeere of Queene Elizabeth The Statute of the eighth yeere of Edward the fourth the first Chapter in Ireland recites that it was doubted amongst the Judges whether all the English Statutes though not naming Ireland were in force there if named no doubt From King Henry the third his time downward to the eighth yeere of Queene Elizabeth by which Statute it is made felony to carry sheepe from Ireland beyond seas in almost all these Kings reignes there be Statutes made concerning Ireland The exercising of the Legislative power there over their lives and estates is higher then of the Judiciall in question Untill the nine and twentieth yeere of Edward the third erroneous judgements given in Ireland were determinable no where but in England no not in the Parliaments of Ireland as it appeares in the close rolls in the Tower in the nine and twentieth yeere of Edward the third membr 12. Power to examine and reverse erroneous judgements in the Parliaments of Ireland is granted from hence Writs of errour lie in the Parliament hereupon erroneous judgements after that time given in the Parliaments of Ireland as appears in the Parliament rolls of the eighth yeere of Henry the sixth no. 70. in the case of the Prior of Lenthan It is true the case is not determined there for it 's the last thing that came into the Parliament and could not be determined for want of time but no exception at all is taken to the jurisdiction The Acts of Parliament made in Ireland have bin confirmed in the Parliaments of England as appears by the close rolls in the Tower in the two and fortieth yeere of Edward the third memb 20. dorso where the Parliament in Ireland for the preservation of the Countrey from the Irish who had almost destroyed it made an Act that all the land owners that were English should reside upon their lands or else they were to bee forfeited This was here confirmed In the Parliament of the fourth yeer of Henry the fifth chap. 6. Acts of Parliament in Ireland are confirmed and some priviledges of the Peeres in the Parliaments there are regulated Power to repeale Irish Statutes power to confirme them cannot be by the Parliament here if it hath not cognizance of their Parliaments unlesse it be said That the Parliament may doe it knowes not what Garnesey and Jersey are under the Kings subjection but are not parcels of the Crowne of England but of the Duchy of Normandy they are not governed by the Lawes of England as Ireland is and yet Parliaments in England have usually held plea of and determined all causes concerning lands or goods In the Parliament of 33. H. i● there be plactia de Insula Jernesey and so in the Parliament 14. E. 2. and so for Normandy and Gascoyne and alwaies as long as any part of France was in subjection to the Crown of England there were at the beginning of the Parliaments receivers and tryers of petitions for those parts appointed I beleeve your Lordships will have no cases shewed of any plea to the jurisdiction of the Parliaments of England in any things done in any

to intend the levying of warre this Case was adjudged before the Parliament The Case was adjudged in Hillary Terme the Parliament began not untill the Aprill following This my Lords is a Case adjudged in point That the practising to levy warre though nothing be done in execution of it is Treason Object It may be objected that in these Cases the conspiring being against the whole Kingdome included the Queene and was a compassing her destruction as wel as of the Kingdomes heere the advise was to the King Answ 1 The Answer is first that the warrant was unknowne to his Majesty that was a machination of warre against the people and Lawes wherein his Majesties person was engaged for protection That the advice was to his Majesty aggravates the offence it was an Attempt not only upon the Kingdome but upon the Sacred Person and his office too himselfe was host is patriae he would have made the Father of it so too nothing more unnaturall more dangerous To offer the King poyson to drink telling him that it is a Cordiall is a compassing of his death The poyson was repelled there was an antidote within the malice of the giver beyond expression The perswading of Forreiners to invade the kingdome holds no proportion with this Machination of warre against the Lawes or kingdome is against the King they cannot be severed My Lords if no actuall warre within the The 3. Generall Head Statute if the counselling of a warre if neither of these single Acts be Treason within the Statute The Commons in the next place have taken it into their consideration what the addition of his other words Counsells and Actions do operate in the Case and have conceived That with this addition all being put together that he is brought within the Statute of 25. Edward 3. The words of the Statute are if any man shall compasse or imagine the death of the King the words are not if any man shall plot or consult the death of the King no my Lords they go further then to such things as are intended immediately directly and determinatively against the life and person of the King they are of a larger extent to compasse is to doe by Circuit to consult or practice another thing directly which being done may necessarily produce this effect However it be in the other Treasons within this Statute yet in this by the very words there is roome left for constructions for necessary Inferences and Consequences What hath beene the judgement and practice of former times concerning these words of compassing the Kings death will appeare to your Lorships by some Cases of attainders upon these words One Owen in King James his time in the 13. yeare of his raigne at Sandwich in Kent spake these words That King James being excommunicated by the Pope may be killed by any man which killing is no murther being asked by those he spake too how he durst maintaine so bloudy an assertion hee answered that the matter was not so heynous as was supposed for the King who is the lesser is concluded by the Pope who is the greater and as a Malefactor being condemned before a Temporall Judge may be delivered over to be Executed so the King standing convicted by the Popes sentence of excommunication may justly be slaughtered without fault for the killing of the King is the execution of the Popes supreame sentence as the other is the execution of the Law for this judgement of High-Treason was given against him and execution done My Lords here is no cleere intent appearing that Owen desired the thing should bee done onely Arguments that it might bee done This is a Compassing there is a cleare Endeavour to corrupt the judgement to take off the bonds of Conscience the greatest security of the Kings life God forbid saith one of better judgement then he That I should stretch out my hand against the Lords annointed no saith he the Lord doth not forbid it you may for these reasons lawfully kill the King He that denies the Title to the Crowne and plots the meanes of setting it upon another head may doe this without any direct or immediate desiring the death of him that then weares it yet this is Treason as was adjudged in 10. Henry 7. in the case of Burton and in the Duke of Norfolkes case 13. Elizabeth This is a compassing of his death for there can no more be two Kings in one Kingdome then two sunnes in the Firmament he that conceives a title counts it worth ventring for though it cost him his life hee that is in possession thinkes it as well worth the keeping John Sparhauke in King Henry the fourths time meeting two men upon the way amongst other talke said that the King was not rightfull King but the Earle of March and that the Pope would grant indulgencies to all that would assist the Earles title and that within halfe a yeare there would be no Liveries nor Conizances of the King that the King had not kept promise with the people but had layed taxes upon them In Easter Tearme in the third yeare of Henry the fourth in the Kings Bench Rot. 12. this adjudged Treason This denying the title with motives though but implyedly of Action against it adjudged Treason this is a compassing the Kings death How this was a compassing the Kings death is declared in the reasons of the judgement That the words were spoken with an intent to withdraw the affections of the people from the King and to excite them against the King that in the end they might rise up against him in mortem destructionem of the King My Lords in this Judgement and others which I shall cite to your Lordships It appeares that it is a compassing the Kings death by words to indeavour to draw the peoples hearts from the King to set discord between the King and them wherby the people should leave the King should rise up against him to the death and destruction of the King The cases that I shall cite prove not onely that this is Treason but what is sufficient evidence to make this good Upon a Commission held the 18. yeare of Ed. 4. in Kent before the Marquesse of Dorset others an Inditement was preferred against Iohn Awater of High-Treason in the forme before mentioned for words which are entred in the enditment sub hâc formâ That he had been servant to the Earle of Warwick that though he were dead the Earle of Oxford was alive and should have the government of part of the Country That Edward whom you call King of England was a false man and had by art and subtilty slain the Earle of Warwick and the Duke of Clarence his brother without any cause who before had beene both of them attainted of High-Treason My Lords this Inditement was returned into the Kings Bench in Trinity Tearme in the eighteenth yeare of Edward the fourth and in Easter Tearme in the two and twentieth yeare of Edward

here in the Kings bench that was in Trinity tearme in the three-and-thirtie yeare of Henry the eight this was before the making of that Statute Obj. To this againe will bee said that it was for treason by the Lawes and Statutes of England but this is not for anything that 's treason by the Law of England but by an Irish Statute So that the question is onely whether your Lordships in Parliament heere have cognizance of an offence made treason by an Irish Statute in the ordinary way of judicature without bill for so is the present question For the clearing of this I shall propound two things to your Lordships consideration Whether the rule for expounding the Irish Statutes and customes bee one and the same in England as in Ireland That being admitted whether the Parliaments in England have cognizance or jurisdiction of things there done in respect of the place because the Kings writ runnes not there For the first if in respect of the place the Parliament here hath cognizance there And secondly if the rules for expounding the Irish Statutes and Customes bee the same here as there this exception as I humbly conceive must fall away In England there is the common law the Statutes the acts of Parliament and customes peculiar to certaine places differing from the common law if any question arise concerning either a custome or an act of Parliament the common law of England the first the primative and the generall law that 's the rule and expositour of them and of their severall extents it is so heere it is so in Ireland the common law of England is the common law of Ireland likewise the same here and there in all the parts of it It was introduced into Ireland by King John and afterwards by King Harry the third by act of Parliament held in England as appeares by the pattent Rolls of the 30. yeare of King Henry the third the first membrana The words are Quia pro communi utilitate terrae Hiberniae unitate terrarum Regis Rex vult de communi consilio Regis provisum est quod omnes leges consuetudines quae in regno Angliae tenentur in Hibernia teneantur eadem terra eisdem legibus subjaceat per easdem regatur sicut Dominus Johannes Rex cum ultimo esset in Hibernia statuit fierimandavit Quia c. Rex vult quod omnia brevia de communi Jure quae currunt in Anglia similiter currant in Hibernia sub novo sigillo Regis mandatum est Archiepiscopis c. quod pro pace tranquillitate ejusdem terrae per casdem leges eos regi deduci permittant ea 〈◊〉 omnibus sequantur In cujus c. Teste Rege apud Woodstock decimo none die Septembris Here 's an union of both Kingdomes and that by act of Parliament and the same Lawes to bee used here as there in omnibus My Lords That nothing might bee left here for an exception that is that in treasons felonies and other capitall offences concerning life the Irish lawes are not the same as here Therefore it is enacted in a Parliament held in England in the fourteenth yeere of Edward the second it is not in print neither but is in the Parliament book That the Laws concerning life and member shall be the same in Ireland as in England And that no exception might yet remaine in a Parliament held in England the fifth yeere of Edward the third It is enacted quod una eadem Lex fiat tam Hibernicis quam Anglicis This Act is enrolled in the Patent rolls of the fifth yeere of Edward the third part 1. memb 35. The Irish therefore receiving their Lawes from hence they send their Students at Law to the Innes of Courts in England where they receive their degree and of them and of the common Lawyers of this Kingdome are the Judges made My Lords The petitions have been many from Ireland to send from hence some Judges more learned in the Lawes then those they had there It hath been frequent in cases of difficulty there to send sometimes to the Parliament here sometimes to the King by advice from the Judges here to send them resolutions of their doubts Amongst many I 'll cite your Lordships onely one because it is in a case of Treason upon an Irish Statute and therefore full to this point By a Statute there made in the fifth yeere of Edward the fourth there is provision made for such as upon suggestions are committed to prison for Treason that the party committed if he can procure 24. Compurgators shall be bailed and let out of prison Two Citizens of Dublin were by a grand Jury presented to have committed Treason They desired the benefit of this Statute that they might bee let out of prison upon tender of their Compurgators The words of the Statute of the fifth yeere of Edward the fourth in Ireland being obscure the Judges there not being satisfied what to doe sent the case over to the Queene desired the opinion of the Judges here which was done accordingly The Judges here sent over their opinion which I have out of the Booke of Justice Anderson one of the Judges consulted withall The Judges here delivered opinion upon an Irish Statute in case of Treason If it bee objected That in this case the Judges here did not judge upon the party their opinions were onely ad informandum conscientiam of the Judges in Ireland that the judgement belonged to the Judges there My Lords with submission this and the other Authorities prove that for which they were cited that is That no absurdity no failer of Justice would ensue if this great Judicatory should judge of Treason so made by an Irish Statute The common Law the rule of Judging upon an Irish Statute the pleas of the Crowne for things of life and death are the same here and there This is all that hath yet been offered For the second point That England hath no power of Judicature for things done in Ireland My Lords the constant practice of all ages proves the contrary Writs of errour in Pleas of the Crowne as well as in civill causes have in all Kings reignes beene brought here even in the inferiour Courts of Westminster Hall upon judgements given in the Courts of Ireland The practice is so frequent so well known as that I shall cite none of them to your Lordships no president will I beleeve bee produced to your Lordships that ever the case was remanded back againe into Ireland because the question rose upon an Irish Statute or custome But it will be said That writs of errour are only upon a failer of justice in Ireland and that suits cannot originally be commenced here for things done in Ireland because the Kings writ runs not in Ireland This might bee a good plea in the Kings Bench and inferiour Courts at Westminster Hall the question is whether it bee so in Parliament