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A37367 A Short surveigh of the grand case of the present ministry whether they may lawfully subscribe and declare as by the late Act of uniformity is required, and the several cases thence arising, especially about the covenant / by some conformable non-conformists. M. D. 1663 (1663) Wing D64; ESTC R14722 29,525 48

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be then gathered the affected title Offertorie maketh it look like something exploded at our first Reformation from Popery We could receive the Collection from the Deacons or Church-Wardens and place it on the Table but we understand not the humble presenting and placing it on the holy Table it hereby soundeth like a Sacrifice we could Eate and Drink the remaines of Bread and Wine with some of the Communicants but we know no distinction Communion ended between Consecrated and unconsecrated Elements nor see we on what ground to Consent and Assent that the one be Eaten at the Holy Table by the Preist and Communicants and the other Taken home to the Curates House We could hansomely cover the Bread with a Napkin but we understand not what is meant by Reverent placing them on the Holy Table and covering them with a Linnen Cloath nor can we Assent or Consent thereunto 29. Reverend Sir Our Fathers were and our selves might be content in some things to Symbolize with Rome when our face was from hers but we cannot unfeignedly Assent and Consent unto such Simbolizing with her Now most men think and Nonconformists boldly affirme our face is towards her yet we pray for the peace and Glory of Englands Church that the Gospel may in her Flourish in Power and Purity Case II. VVhether it be lawful declare in the words of the second Declaration Case 2th Pa. 13 14 1. SIr we must tell you The many words in this Declaration affright us not yet we cannot but be affected to observe the persons who quarreled at the Covenant to impose an Oath or Declaration Tantamount so full of words Turpe est Doctori 2. But we consent to attend your motion in taking this Declaration in peices and you distribute it into three parts that which concerns the Taking Armes against the King Conformity and the Oath called the Solemne League and Covenant in each of which we shall consider your resolution and Reasons The first part you divide into these two Cases Case III. 1. Case 3. Pa. 15 Whether it be lawful for us to delare that it is not lawful upon any pretence whatsoever to take Armes against the King Case IV. 2. Case 4. Pa. 16.17 Whether it be lawful to declare that we abhor that Traiterous Position of taking Armes by the Kings Authority against his Person or those that are Commissioned by him 1. SIr These two you conclude in the Affirmative on so sharp promises that none dare or in prudence can speak the Negative or withstand you Tower and Tyburne are terrible places 2. This part of the Declaration doth not much concern us out opposition to the late Rebellion against the King our resistance of the Armes taken against him our constancy of Loyalty under the Cross do Iondly witness you and we cannot be in this particular at any great distance yet we know some Loyal hearts who stumble for whose sake we wish you had more thoroughly argued those Cases by some Medium which they might venture to meet you at we will tell you what we have heard whispered by men of Loyal hearts 3. Some say this Declaration is the personal affection of a present private opinion which being changeable can give no security and so reacheth not the end for which it is exacted these men in zeal to his Majesty could pass a Promissory Oath that they would not take Armes against the King for they conceive their Act is fully within their power though the stronger reasons they may meet with in men or books may alter their present opinions though declared under the most sacred Oath 4 Some say this Declaration is Dogmatical by persons whose Opinion cannot end the Political strife which hath been and is in the World about it and so it cannot reach the end of so solemn Declaration These stumble that the tearms are so indefinite as to render the Position applycable to every Kingdome 5. Some say the tearms are dubious if not false it being indefinitely inserted It is not lawful to take Armes against the King on any pretence what soever These think though this may be true and square to the Lawes of this Kingdome the constitution of other Kingdomes may make it contrary and although our King is and we hope ever will be so qualified that in reference to him it may be true yet it is not impossible for a King Regis personam exuere in a natural or moral madness or Phrensie to turn Tyrant yea Beast waving his Royal Place violently extrajudicially extramagisterially to assault his Subject as Saul did David In this case men think Nature doth dictate it and Scripture doth justifie a man Se defendendo vim vi repellere to take Armes though by rallying the men of Belial● not to resist yet to restrain the King and those who are Commissioned by him until they make good their retreat and more safely run out of his reach And this Sir is some pretence on which to speak of the Law of Nature is not as you affirme a Subterfuge and in answer to your what saith the Scripture they say it seemeth to be their Sheild this pretence being square to and consistent with professed obedience 6 To some it soundeth harsh to declare it a trayterous Positian to take Arms by the Kings authority against the Kings person or those Commissioned by him these will not be perswaded that if Queen Elizabeth had by vertue of the broad Seal brought to her in Sanctuary by the then Arch-Bishop of York arrayed and armed men against Richard Duke of Glocester possessing the person of King Edward the 5th she had thereby become a Traytor these men think it not impossible for England again to see a perfidious Protector of the person of an infant-Infant-King and tremble to think that this Declaration may become the basis of Treason and Guard of Rebellion if some Russians should which God defend seize the person of a King he is a man from whom Commissions may be by fear extorted whereby true Loyalty must be on their side and Treason on the part of the Kings Counsel Kindred Ministers of State if Arming against his Person by his Authority though on such a pretence quo posito absurdum sequens non est ponendum But Sir these are a Noli me tangere which we shall not defend Case V. Whether it be Lawful to declare that we will Conforme Case 5th .. Pa. 19 20 to the Litturgie of the Church of England as it is now by Law Established THis Sir is the second part of the Declaration to which you have said little and we shall say less only mind you that this declaring Our Assent and Consent to the use of the Liturgie the foregoing Declaration doth determine Our unfeigned Assent and consent to the Things and Matters to be used that unanimity is the spring and spurr ground and guard of this promised Uniformity 2. But Sir we hasten after you to the Consideration of the