should bee worthier And for the execution of this sentence the Pope wrote to Philip the most mightie king of Fraunce that in the remission of all his sinnes hee should vndertake this matter and after the expulsion of king Iohn hee and his heires for euer should bee rightfull â— owners of the kingdom of England He wrote likewise to al the Nobles Captaines soldiers of diuerse Nations that they should crossigne themselues to the deposing of the king of England and following the king of Fraunce their leader in this viage reuenge the iniurie of the vniuersall church Thus your holy father set kinges togither by the eares for the remissâ—on of their sinnes and turned the warfare that was prouided against the Turke â—o pursue his priuate quarels with christian Princes like the Prince of darkenesse giueth kingdoms that bee none of his to them and their heires foreuer And your blessed Bishops of Canterburie London and Elie that first made sute at Rome to haue this impietie decreed against their Prince in their owne persons to shew their christian and obedient dispositions plied the king of France other Potentates to hasten them with al hostilitie towards this land and would needes be both the messengers and ringleaders in that action The next yeare Stephen of Canterburie William of London and Elias of Elie returned from the court of Rome gathering a Councel on the other side of the Sea solemnly published the iudgement that was giuen against the king of England in the presence of the French king and his Bishops and his clergie and communaltie That done they inioyned the king of France and all the rest on the behalfe of the Pope for the remission of their sinnes that they all ioyning togither shoulde inuade the Realme of England in hostile manner and thrust king Iohn from his throne and substitute a worthier by the Apostolike authoritie It was not enough for them vnnaturally to procure this pestilent inuasion against their prince but they themselues must assist it with all their might and be the chiefe doers in it least ages after them should be ignorant how zealous they were for their * backes and bellies against their lawful and soueraigne Magistrate Phi. Being deposed he was no Magistrate Theo. When you * proue the Pope may depose Princes then pronounce king Iohn no Magistrate till you so doe giue vs leaue to tell you that this was a cursed presumption in the Pope and a more cursed rebellion in the Bishops Phi. The Realme of France you see tooke the offer and thereby confessed the Pope might dispose Princes Theo. A kingdome will make men doe much The king of Fraunce was led thereto not with religion but with ambition to get the crowne of England for Lodouike his sonne Where you see the desire which Princes had to inlarge their dominions made them regard the Popes censures against their neighbours which otherwise in themselues they did mightily despise as appeareth by that which fel out not long after betweene Philip the Faire and Boniface the eight Where the king of Fraunce resolutely withstood the Pope with all his interdictions and depositions and vsed his person in the end very coursely as I before haue touched in place where vppon occasion Princes to serue their turnes and to be reuenged of their enimies haue oftentimes backed and inforced the Popes iudiciall sentence against others which corrupt affection to man the Popes processe when it made for their purpose god hath punished in them by making him their master whom for lucre they serued as long as they gained By the enuie and enmity of Princes one against an other not by the lawes of God or examples of Christs church hath the Pope gotten the mastery of all Princes and so long as they wil inuade ech other at his teasing they shall neuer be free from his yoke By their helpe he became of a Bishop vnder them to be a Prince with them and by their dissentions of a Prince with them he is now Lord ouer them Take king Iohn for a paterne Had not the French king in hatred of king Iohn and hope of the crowne bin willing to heare of this match and wagered his men and mony for that prize the king of England had easily forced the Pope to some reasonable order But nowe seeing the whole Realme of Fraunce was in armes against him and his owne Lande likely to bee diuided within it selfe what maruell if he accepted rather any conditions at the Popes hands thaÌ„ he would suffer strangers that gaped after his kingdom to deuoure it Phi. Hee did wisely to submit himselfe hee had otherwise lost both rule life Theo. The Pope did as wickedly not to content himselfe with the kings submission and restitution of all that was detained but with a fine deuise to circumuent both parts and to get the kingdom for himselfe and his successors which was promised before to the French king and his heires Such cunning your holy father hath to set others to beat the bushe whiles hee doeth catch the birdes The king of Fraunce was led in a string to muster his men to rigge his shippes to bestow aboue threescore thowsande poundes for the preparation of the warre and was tolde hee shoulde haue for his labour pardon of all his sinnes forsooth and the crowne of England to him and to his for euer without faile when al was in readinesse and they waited nothing now but the French kings comming to go with the armie the Popes Legate stepped ouer before and shewed king Iohn what a power was leuied against him and how many of his own Nobles had purposed to forsake him and wanne him rather to holde his kingdome in fee farme of the Bishop of Rome for an easie rent than to leaue it a pray to the French king his people who would egerly spoile him of al. Upon which aduise the king consented to receiue the Archbishop and the rest of the exiles in peace to restore that to them which hee had seased of their liuinges to his vse to resigne his Crowne into the Popes handes and to take it againe as his liege man Secundary for a thowsand marke sterling by the yeare This done the Legate sayled back sent home the Bishops discharged the armie prohibited the French king to proceede any farther for so much as the king of England was newely become a tenant to the church of Rome With this sleight the Pope caught the crowne of England neither as I thinke was there euer any kingdome purchased with lesse charge and more speede thaÌ„ this was by the Pope Philand If the King woulde resigne it why shoulde not the Pope receiue it And in my conceit it was safer for the King to fall into the Popes handes to be rented than into the French Kinges to be spoiled Theo. That conceit which you speake of made the King of England content to be
nor conscience This prelate became after a pestilent enimie to king Iohn * Matth. Paris in anno 1215. saith coniurati Steph. Archiep. capital consent habuerunt Matt. Paris anno 1212. The Bishops of England incense the Pope against their king Why shoulde the clergy haue their liuinges if they would not discharge their duties Matt. Paris in anno 1208. The king allowed his clergy food and raiment so that hee barred them only of their abundance Interdicting of whole realmes wrap peth innoceÌ„ts as well as nocents Interdicting God to bee publikely serued is the high waie to increase the kingdom of Satan The right meaning of their Romish interdicts The executors of such interdicts as bad as the pronouncers Matth. Paris anno 1212. By this bait the Pope drue many ambitious princes to serue his turne Not so much as the Popes pride fury but it must be shrewded with the name of the Catholike Church Matth. 3. Romish deuotion the very mother of diuelish rebellioÌ„ Matth. Paris anno 1213. Were nor these good subiectes The King of France would fain haue had the Crowne of England in that respect tooke the Popes offer fol. 95. By the dissention ambitioÌ„ of Princes the Pope grew to be Lord ouer them Feare of the French King draue King Iohn to put his necke vnder the popes gâ—rdle The Pope gate the kingdome of England for himselfe Mat. paris in anno 1213. § hijs ita gestis The Pope a skilfull fisher for kingdoms King Iohn faâ—med his crowne of the Pope by a yerely rent The Pope shewed fauor to King Iohn but most of al to himselfe The pope had as much right to the crowne of England as a thiefe hath by the high waies side to an other mans purse Mat. Paris in anno 1213. § rebus vt iam dictum est The king might binde himselfe but not his successors to these conditions The Barons of this realme detested the kings act Matth. Paris anno 1216. § sub hiis diebuâ— Much lesse successours Matth. Paris anno 1216. § Cumque omnes The coÌ„plaint of the Barons against the Pope and the king Marcidi ribaldi Matth. Paris anno 1216. § Circa hosâ— dies The end of all the Popes deuises No King of England euer acknowleged this subiectioÌ„ to the Pope The Kings of England most of all others kept the Pope shortest from infringing the liberties of their Crowne The pope had a 1000. marks land giuen him by King Iohn part whereof the Pope solde after to WilliaÌ„ wickham Polidor Angli hist. lib. 15. in Ioan. King Iohn burdened him selfe not the Princes after him The defence cap. 5. George died King of Bohemia notwithstanding the Popes practises and Mathias forces Cromer de gestis Polonor li. 27. Cromer eodem libro The Pope verie liberal in giuing kingdoms that be none of his The defence cap. 5. The King of Nauarre Princes content to take part with the Pope so long as it maketh for their profit Guicciard hist. lib. 18. Charles loked through his fingers and saide he saw nothing Guicci li. 11. Ferdinand lacking a better title preteÌ„ded the popes Bull for that part of Nauarre which lay so neere him Right force do not alwaies meete The defence cap. 5. Henry the 2 Tho. Becket Beckets quarell must be good before he can be blessed Appeales to the Pope immunitie of wicked Priests were the quarel that Becket stoode in Beckets fact damnable for these three respects vnlesse the Iesuites proue those lawes which he with stood to be repugnant to the word of God Such proude prelates are likeliest to be of your Romish relâ—gion Becket farre from a martyr The Church of Rome were to be blamed if she did not honor Becket The popes practise to subdue Princes Princes punished for the neglect of trueth discord that raigned amoÌ„gest them The defence cap. 5. No King of England deposed by the Pope but only King Iohn The Kings of Fraunce were too good for the Pope Philip King of Fraunce * Nauel gener 44. anno 1300. * Gagu in Phil. pulchro Platina in Bonifacio 8. Platina IbideÌ„ Gaguin lib. 7. in Phil. pulchr How Philip of France handled Bonifacius see part 1. fol. 95 Lewes King of France Massaed in an 1510. The Realme of France in this our age despised the Popes ceÌ„sure against their King Velleij ad Gag aggeâ— in Lodou 12. The Pope will be tried by the sword and not by the word The Pope no pastor but a warrier All the Germane Emperours that were offered depriuation by the Pope are alreadie recited Philip of Sueuia and Otho the 5. Vrspergens in anno 1197. The Pope would not acknowledge this Philip for Emperor IdeÌ„ in an 1198. Naucler gener 44 anno 1195. Otho erected against Philip. Cuspinian in Phil. Caesar. Frederikes election ratified to spite Otho Fredericke in greater hatred with the Pope than either of the former What followed of these garboiles Vrspergens in anno 1198. §. audiui to tempore Ibidem § properant electi Dispencing with othes is the Diuels art Ibidem ¶ iam tunc Colon. The Pope gained by al this As true a song as any the Hunnal hath Blondus decad 2. lib. 10. Blondus IbideÌ„ Naucl. generat 46. an 1355 The Pope would not suffer the Emperour to come neere Italy Blondus Naucler vt supra The Emperor as glad to be gone as the Pope to haue him goe Blondus decad 2. lib. 10. The Prince sold all the Emperour had both in Italie Germanie The price of a voice in the election of the Emperor Aeneas Siluius histor Bohem. cap. 32. The Romane Empire come vtterly to nothing VeÌ„celaus put from the Empire as vnfit to rule Cuspinianâ— in Vencelao For a 1000. yeares no such thing offered to this present day no such thing acknowledged In all these examples infinite numbers of their own religion haue stoode with Princes against the Pope We may not leaue the precepts of the holy Ghost and the ancient obedieÌ„ce of Christs Church to follow these fierbrands of hell The defence cap. 5. Gregorie the first nâ—uer dreampt of deposing Princes The defâ—nce cap. 5. An excoÌ„mucation of S. Gregorie vpoÌ„ Kings and Priâ—ces In fine libri 12. epist. In fine 12. lib epist. ibidem Gregorie had no more power to depose Princes than he had to damne theÌ„ Gregories wordes are a curse not a iudicial sentence Euerie doner hath the like wordes in his graunt Ibidem Ibidem The defence cap. 5. In eodem priuilegio Gregories act nothing like the Iesuites * King Iohn lost the harts of his Nobles before these troubles beganne Matth. Paris anno 1203. * Matth. Paris in anno 1213. King Iohn thought it easier to loose a 1000. markes by the yeare than to fight for his Crown and state * Matt. Paris Ibidem ¶ Rex denique Iohan. * IbideÌ„ ¶ Dum autem Rex Matth. Paris anno 1215. 〈◊〉 â—â—ins epist. The Nobles pursued King Iohn after his reconciliation to the
from shrine to shrine to encrease your offerings which wickednes if S. Hierom had seene in his time he would haue taunted you a litle better than euer he did Vigilantius In the prayers which were made to God at his Altar we graunt with S. Austine The commendation of the dead by the custome of the Vniuersall Church had a speciall place but your prayer for soules in Purgatorie was neuer Catholique And where you send vs to S. Austens Enchiridion ca. 110. for that kind of prayer looke againe to the wordes and you shall find there no certaine doctrine but a doubtfull diuision consisting of three partes and not one of them prouing your Purgatorie When the sacrifices of the Altar or any other almes are offered for all that were baptized before they died for such as are very good they be saith he thankesgiuings to God for those that be not altogether ill they be propitiations that is procuring of mercie for such as be very bad though they be no helpers to the dead they bee some comforts to the liuing and whome they profite they profite them thus farre either to purchase them ful remission or at least more tolerable damnation The first part of this diuision that sacrifices for the dead are thankesgiuings to God is a poynt that now you can not heare of the last that they comfort the liuing but helpe not the dead by no meanes you will admit the middle is it that you stand on and that is nothing but this whom they profit they procure either full remission or at lest a more tolerable damnation Where S. Austen doth not affirme which of the twaine they shall procure but vseth a disiunctiue and of the twaine rather enclineth to the later as the likelier by correcting him selfe in this wise they shall haue remission or at lest a more tolerable damnation And for your better assurance that S. Austen on whom you relie neuer taught your Purgatorie for a matter of Catholique faith we send you back to the same father and the same booke the 69. chapter where he sayth It is not incredible that there is some such thing after this life and whether it be so it may be a question and it may be either found out or lie hid that some of the faithfull obteine saluation by a Purgatorie fire so much the sooner or later by howe much the more or lesse they loued the transitorie goods of this life If it may lie hid then is it no ground of Christian faith which must be fully beleeued of all men neither coulde the prayers of the Church depende vpon the doubtfull opinion of Purgatorie which by S. Austens owne iudgement is superfluous to be discussed and most dangerous to be resolued The rest of your places in this chapter amounting to the number often doe you litle good and vs lesse harme we receiue them without exception or distinction The words of Maximinus the Arrian you wittingly peruert to make them like ours wherein you discouer your malice and touch not our doctrine for Arius as you may reade in that disputation which Athanasius had with him vpbrayded the fathers for vsing the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not found in all the bookes of the new or old testament whereas the Church of Christ alwayes professed to beleeue nothing but what was plainely written in the sacred scriptures The selfe same cauil Maximinus vrged S. Augustine with Hae verò voces quae extra scripturam sunt nullo casu a nobis suscipiuntur These wordes and not as you translate these sayings which are not in the scripture by no meanes we receiue This obiection wee grant was both foolish and hereticall and if wee vrge you with any such spare vs not We striue with you not for names words but for poynts and Principles of faith and those we say must bee proued by the scriptures S. Paul sayd so before vs Faith is by hearing hearing out of the word of God Mauger your traditions and vnwritten verities this is a Christian and Catholique position which all the fathers confirme with one consent as shall be shewed in place conuenient In the meane time wee saie with Basill that I trowe was no Arrian Manifestus est a fide lapsus crimen maximae superbiae vel a scripto recedere vel non scriptum admittere It is a manifest fall from faith and a sinne that argueth infinite pride either to leaue that which is written or admit that which is not written Your sixt chapter handleth no matter of religion as being purposely made to excuse you from Treason and hath nothing in it any way materiall saue onely that vpon the name of Masse-priest you fall into a great rage and will needes proue the Apostles themselues the ancient fathers of all ages were masse priests And that you do ful clarkly For wheresoeuer you find the word oblation or sacrifice in any father you presently put him in the Decke for a masse-Priest I maruaile you be not ashamed professing so deepe knowledge to send vs ouer such vaine trifles The very children in England doe knowe the Lordes supper is a sacrifice of thankesgiuing a memoriall of Christes oblation on the crosse dayly renewing his death in a mysterie which is the true meaning of the twelue places that here you bring and of twelue hundred mo that might be brought to the like effect but this is nothing to the sacrifice of your masse where you professe that Christ is couered with accidents of bread and wine and offered really with your handes to God his father for the remission of your sinnes shewe but one father for this kinde of sacrifice and we will agnise not onely these whome you name but also Melchisedec and Malachie for Masse-priests Searching fiue hundred foure score and thirteene yeres after Christ with al diligence you find the worde Missa twise once in Ambrose and once in Leo and in a brauerie you demaund of vs Were they Masse-priests that sayd those masses But what if the word Missa did then not signifie the Masse but a dismissing of the Catechists before and of the faithful after the Lords supper where is your great and glorious triumphe become Looke to the fourth Counsell of Carthage the 84. Canon Let the Bishop forbid no man to enter the Church and heare the word of God neither Iew Gentile nor heretike vsque ad missam Catechumenorum that is till the Catechists be sent away not vntil the Catechists masse For they which were not yet baptized could not be present at the ministration of the Lords supper therefore Missa doth signifie the dismissing of them as the manner was in the primitiue Church to send away first the Catechists next the Repentants and last of all to giue the faithfull leaue to depart when the communion was ended which three dimissions were sometime called in the plurall number Missae
William Which Anselmus in his Epistle to Pope Paschalis complaineth of in this sort The king requireth of me that vnder pretence of right I should yeeld to his pleasures which are repugnant to the law will of God For he woulde not haue the Pope receiued nor appealed vnto in his Land without his cōmaundement neither that I should write to him or receiue answere from him or that I should obey his decrees In all these thinges and such like if I demaunded aduise all the Bishops of his Realme denied to giue me any but according to the kings pleasure After that I asked licence of him to goe to Rome vnto the Sea Apostolike the king answered that I offended against him for the onely asking of leaue and offered me that either I should satisfie him for the same as a trespasse by assuring him neuer to aske this leaue any more nor to appeale to the Pope at anytime hereafter or else that I should speedilie depart out of his Land And after in the time of king Henry the 1. when the said Archbishop was returning home frome Rome the kings Atturney in his masters name forbadde him to enter the Land vnlesse he would faithfully promise him to keepe all the customs both of William conqueror his father William Rufus his brother And K. Henry as soone as he perceiued the Pope the Archbishop to continue their former opinion against his liberties presently seased the Bishoprike into his hands and arested all Anselmus goods The like successe had Thurstane Elect of Yorke who gate leaue of K. Henry the 1. to go to the councell of Rhemes giuing his faith that he would not receiue consecration from the Pope comming to the Synode by his liberal gifts as the fashion is wan the Romanes fauor by their meanes obtained to be consecrated at the Popes handes which as soone as the king of England knew he forbad him to come within his dominion To this other such liberties of the crown K. Hēr the 2. not long after made al his Bishops Nobles to be sworne in a generall assembly at Claredon In the yeare of our Lord 1164. K. Henrie being at Claredon in the presence of the Archbishops Bishops Abbots Priors Earls Barons great men of the realme there was made a rehearsal or acknowledgemēt of some part of the Customes liberties of his Ancestors to wit of K. Henrie his grandfather others which ought to be kept in his realme obserued of all to auoide the dissention discord that often happened between the clergie the kings Iustices nobles of the realm Amongst the which custams being 16. in number these were two No Archbishop Bishop nor any other person of the realme may go out of the land without the kings leaue For appeales if any be made they shal come frō the Archdeacō to the bishop frō the Bishop to the Archbishop if the Archbishop faile in doing iustice it shal be lawful to come last of al to the king that by his cōmandement the matter may bee ended in the Archbishops court so that no mā shal proceede to appeale any farther without the kings consent This acknowledging recording of the customes liberties of the crown the Archbishops Bishops Abbots Priors yea the clergie with the Earles Barons all the Nobles sware by word of mouth faithfully promised should be kept obserued to the king his heires for euer simply without fraud Phi. The selfsame writer that you bring dispraiseth those customes calleth them wicked detestable Theo. His report is the stronger against you in that he was a Monke a misliker of those lawes his iudgemēt against vs the weaker For these princely dignities had preuailed from the Conquest til that time were in that age yeelded sworne vnto by the Bishops clergy of his realm are in themselues if you list to discusse them agreeable both to the sacred scriptures ancient councels notwithstanding some Friers fauorers of the Romish See did then doe now to their power withstand them Ph. S. Thomas of Canterbury withstood them vnto death chose rather to lose his life than to yeeld to any such customes The. Do you make him a Saint for resisting his prince or else for sauing certaine lewde priests from the due punishment of the princes lawes Ph. I count him a martyr for spending his blood in defence of the church liberties The. Their rage that slew him I do not commend because it was done by priuate violence not by publike authority but his stout stāding in a peeuish quarrel against his oth against his prince to purchase impunity for homicides other hainous offendors against the common course of law iustice I thinke in these daies you dare not openly defend for feare least the world cry shame on you Ph. You charge him with more thā you can proue The. I charge him with no more than your friendes his are forced to confesse Th. Archbishop of Canter when he had granted these 16. lawes which this superstitious monk calleth wicked detestable promised with an oth to keep them examining diligently that which he had rashly done afflicted himself grieuously sent straightway messengers to the court of Rome to signifie the grief of the church his own asked absolution from the band which he had vnwisely entred into which also he obtained The same yeare K.H. meaning as he said to punish with due seuerity the disorders of al sorts affirmed it to be against reason that he should deliuer to the bishop such clergie men vnpunished as were conuicted before his Iustices of any publike hainous crime And therfore he decreed that whō the Bishops sound guiltie in the presence of the kings iustice they should degrade and deliuer to the kings court to be punished The Archbishop held on the contrary that they ought not to be punished by laymē after they were degraded by the Bishop lest they shold be twise punished for one thing The occasiō of this strife was giuē by one Philip de Broc a canō of Bedford which being indicted of murder spake reprochfully to the Iudge which when he could not deny before the Archbishop he was depriued of his prebend exiled the land for 2. yeares The Archbishop seeing the liberties of the Church now troden vnder foote without the kings knowledge tooke ship intended to go to Rome but the wind being against him he was driuē back to the shore And immediatly vpō that when he was called to accompt for the whole receits that came to his handes whiles he was Chauncelor of England least he should vniustly be cōdemned he appealed to the See of Rome vnder paine of excōmunication forbad as well the Bishops as all the nobles to giue sentence against him that was there both their father and their Iudge The Nobles
any age euer saide the contrarie Theo. Name any catholike Diuine for a thowsand yeares after Christ that euer saide so In deede some popish prelats and writers of late yeares finding that a compendious waie to strengthen the Popes kingdom to make a speedy dispatch of such as should molest them haue not by diuinitie but by conspiracie concluded that Princes may be deposed resisted euen by their owne subiects contrary to the law of God the doctrine of the Apostles and the perpetuall patience of Christs church Phi. I wil set you downe some catholike writers about this matter albeit but fewe for breuity sake yet of such excellent credit as shal be able to instruct and satisfie any reasonable conscience in this case as also to be our brethrens defence against all those that charge them so deadly with these treasonable propositions Theo. The simplest christian that is except you take a rebellious hart for a reasonable conscience wil looke for some better authority to saue himselfe from damnatiō which God threatneth to all that resist powers than your own schoolmen companions linked in the same faction with you liuing not long before you And this seely defence of your brethren by the corrupt verdict of your confederates is rather a discredit to your whole cause than a clearing of them from traiterous deuises or as you speake from treasonable propositions Phi. Thomas Aquin that glorious Saint Clerke whose only sentence weigheth more thā al the Protestāts wits words in the world saith thus Postquā Princeps est denūciatus apostata omnes inferiores subditi absoluūtur a praestito turamēto obedientia illi debita that is to say after a Prince is once denounced to bee an Apostata all his inferiours subiects are assoiled of their oth made vnto him and of their obedience vnto him This case is plainely resolued vpon by the greatest of all the schoole Doctors and therefore can be no reasonable assertion or opinion Theo. We are now neither to sift your saints nor examine your clerks much lesse to debate whether the resolution of a popish Monk drown the wits pains of them al that God hath since called to the knowledge of his truth your passing pride I leaue to the iudgmēt of the wise The credit of Thomas is not so excellēt as you make it nor his saintship so glorious He wrot more thā 1200. yeres after Christ was both ouerwhelmed with the corruption of his time wholy wedded to the See of Rome Scripture or father he bringeth none but barely standeth on the example of Gregory the 7. who first practised this wicked presumption against Henry the 4. a 1000. yeares after Christ this is a simple securitie for subiects to resist the sword which God hath autorized the church of Christ for a 1000. yeares obeyed to heare Thomas Aquin a late Summist in y◠midst of blindnes error affirme they may pretēd no better author than Hildebrād a furious seditious monster as his owne Cardinales companions report of him You were best bring some other proofe they must else be very large consciences that will be satisfied with such censures Phi. The famous professor of our time Francis Toledo writeth farther vpō the words of S. Thomas Nota saith he quod eadem est ratio de excommunicato quia cū primū quis est denunciat us excōmunicatus omnes subdits absoluuntur ab eius obedientia Note that albeit S. Thomas name only an apostata yet the reason is al one in the Princes case that is excommunicated For as soone as one is denounced or declared an excōmunicate al his subiects be discharged of their obediēce For though the crime of a Prince be notorious yet before declaration thereof made by the church the vassals are not assoiled frō obedience as Caietanus wel holdeth which declaration being made by the church they are not only discharged of their loialtie but are bound not to obey him any more except it be for feare of their liues or losse of their temporal goods as it was in England in the time of Henry the 8. Thus doth this notable schoolemā write neither do we know any Catholike diuine of any age to say the contrarie Theo. Cal you these satisfactiōs for reasonable cōsciences in purgatiō of your selues that you do not cōspire with Popes against Princes to bring men aliue at this day that be either hired or bewitched as you are to take part with Antichrist against God his truth think you their surly conclusions to be sufficiēt instructions for all mens consciences Shall Ambrose Austen others looke on Caietane Toledo such like sworne chaplaines to the Pope our prosessed enemies to bee iudges in this cause What else is this but aske my fellow whether I be a thiefe And yet Thomas Aquinas had this moderation that Princes should not loose their Dominion for heresie or any other crime but only for Apostasie which is a generall final renouncing of Christs name to become an heathē or a Turk Toledo with lesse learning more vnshamefastnes telleth vs vpon his credit Eadem est ratio de excommunicato The same reason holdeth in any Prince whom the Pope list to excommunicate for what cause soeuer Be not these dowtie demonstrations in so weighty questions Phi. We bring them not as our chiefe groundes in this cause but onely to shewe that others haue beene of the same iudgement with vs. Theo. You meane that your fellowes of late dayes haue beene as dutifull to their Princes as you are now to ours We aske not what companie but what authoritie you haue to resist and depose the powers which God hath appointed to bee serued and honoured Let Aquinas Caietane and Toledo go You may not displace them whom God hath exalted annointed and set to be obeyed without higher and better warrant than fiue thowsand Thomases tenne Thowsande Caietanes and twentie thowsande Toledoes can giue you Phi. Thowsandes we could bring you if that would content you namely The famous generall Councell of Laterane celebrated aboue 300. yeares since wherein there were Patriarkes and Archbishops 70. Bishops 412. and other Prelates 800. in all of the most chosen learned men of all Nations 1282. with the Embassadours of the Romane Emperour of the king of Ierusalem of England of Fraunce of Spaine and of Cypres as also of other Christian States than which there can bee no surer iudgement vpon earth which assemblie representing the whole christian world would neuer agree vpon any assertion traiterous These thē are the words of their most renoumed Decree If any Lord temporall required and admonished by the church neglect to purge his State from hereticall filth let him bee excommunicated by the Metropolitane and Conprouinciall Bishops But if he contemne to come to order within one yeares space let relation be made to the supreme Bishop
compasse of king Edward the thirdes statute for ayding and comforting the Queenes enemies within the realme or elsewhere Phi. You must vnderstand that wee neuer will any man to take armes but for the catholique fayth and at the commaundement of the supreme magistrate against one that was but is no Prince as being iustly deposed Theo. And you must vnderstand that the statute of Edward the third doeth neither allowe the Pope to depose the Prince nor licence the subiect to beare armes for religion against his soueraigne and therefore your warres for religion be trayterous insurrections against the Prince by the Lawes of Edward the third notwithstanding your newe found glozes that you first depose them and after resist them and pursue them with armes by the warrant of holy Churches iudgement and censure Phi. Edward the third neuer ment that to obey the Pope aboue the prince should bee treason Theo. It is not for you now to appoint his meaning His woordes are that to giue ayde or comfort to the Kings enemies and such as leuied warres against him in his realme were it the Pope the French King or whom ye will shoulde bee treason Hee had before his eyes the example of King Iohn vpon whome the Pope set the King of France with all his power for not obeying his censures from Rome he knew hee could not bee defeated of his Crowne without warre and so long as his owne subiects were trustie to him hee feared not the French nor any other that should inuade him To make himselfe therefore assured of his owne people against all men Spanish Scottish French Romish or any by whome the deede might bee doone and yet to decline the enuie of naming the Pope hee with his whole realme by their publique lawe without exception of Person or cause made it treason to giue ayde or comfort within the realme or else where to any whatsoeuer that should warre vpon the king perceiuing the generall would include the Pope or any other that hee shoulde incite against the King as well as if they were distinctly named Phi. You suppose the Prince and the people did secretly conspire against the Pope where as in those dayes they did honour him as the Soueraigne father and Pastour of their soules Theo. Howsoeuer they embraced the religion which hee professed it is euident the King and the whole realme in open Parliament made a generall consociation to repell prouisions and impetrations of ecclesiasticall dignities and offices from Rome and bound them-selues eche to other with all their might in common to withstande citations suspencions excommunications and censures comming from that Consistorie for matters decided in the Kings Courts or pertinent to the Lawes and royall liberties of this Realme and the commons did not sticke in parliament likewise to promise King Richarde the second to stand with him in all cases attempted by the Bishop of Rome against him his Crowne and his Regalitie in all points to liue and die The consociation against the procurers bringers and executours of prohibited processe from Rome was this The King the Prelates Dukes Earles Barons Nobles and other Commons Clerks and Lay people be bound by this present ordinance to aide comfort and counsel the one and the other as often as shall neede and by all the best meanes that may bee made of word and of deede to impeach such offendours and to resist their enterprises and without suffering them to inhabite abide or passe by their Seignories possessions landes iurisdictions or places and be bound to keep defend the one and the other from al damage villanie and reproofe as they should do their owne persons and for their deed and businesse and by such manner and as farreforth as such prosecutions or processe were made or attempted against them in especiall generall or in common The complainct and offer of the Commons to king Richard was this Of late diuers processes be made by our holy father the Bishop of Rome and censures of excommunication vpon certaine Bishops of England because they haue made execution of the kings commandements notwithstanding processe from the Court of Rome for the contrarie to the open disherison of the Crowne and destruction of our Soueraigne Lord the King his Law all his Realme so as the Crowne of England which hath beene so free at al times that it hath beene in subiection to no realme but immediately subiect to God and to none other in all things touching the regalitie of the same Crowne should be submitted to the Bishop of Rome and the Lawes and statutes of the realme by him defeated and destroied at his will in perpetual destruction of the king our soueraigne Lord his Crown and regalitie and of al his realme which God defend Wherefore they al the liege commons of the same realme will be with our sayd Soueraigne Lorde the King and his saide Crown and his regalitie in the cases aforesaide and in all other cases attempted against him his crowne and his regalitie in al points to liue and to die This was the auncient loue and faith of the Commons of this Land toward their Princes against the Bishop of Rome euen by name and this if you were true English or good Christian men you would rather exhort the people vnto than as you doe wish them to take weapon in hand to pull the Prince from her throne because the Bishop of Rome hath sent out his calues to disclaime her Phi. Euer sith the said S. Gregories time or thereabout all Kings in Christendome speciállie those of Spaine Fraunce Pole and England take an oth vppon the holy Euangelistes at their Coronation to keepe and defend the Catholike faith and ours of England expresly to maintaine also the priuileges and liberties of the Church and Clergie giuen by King Edward the confessour and other faithful Kings their auncestors Theo. That Kinges should take an othe to defende the Catholique fayth assist the Church of Christ wee doe not repine onely your collection is foolish if you thinke that by Catholique fayth is by and by ment your late Romish fayth or that the church can haue no priuileges nor liberties except the Pope may deale and distribute kingdomes to his liking The Princes othe in the Lawes of King Edwarde the confessour was to keepe nourish maintaine and gouerne the holy Church of his kingdome with all integritie and libertie according to the constitutions of his Fathers and predecessours But in our dayes you will not suffer the Prince to gouerne the Church of her kingdome and the Church libertie which you seeke for is a wicked impunitie for sinne and a plaine contempt of all Christian authoritie Phi. S. Thomas of Canterburie putteth his Soueraigne Henry the seconde in memorie thereof both often in speach and expressely in an epistle written to him in these woordes Memores sitis confessionis qâ—am fecistis posuistis super altare apud
specifie For Christ said take ye eate ye which in their priuate Masses your Priestes doe not and for that cause euerie such Masse is a manifest contempt of Christes wordes and deedes confessed and rehearsed by your owne mouthes at the altar as partes of his institution Phi. The Catholike church onely by Christes spirit can tell which thinges are imitable which not in al his actions The. When himself hath appointed what actions of his he will haue to be followed the church is bound to obey not licenced to make her choise But in this case the church of christ hath faithfully done her duty For she alwayes obserued these actions of Christ her Lord and master and verified his wordes till Antichrist with pride and power came to take vp his seat in the middest of her and to proportion all religion to his vnsounde and deceiued affection Phi. Is the catholike church in this point with you Theo. Yea and against you mightily The canons as you terme them Apostolicall prohibit your priuat Masse Whosoeuer of the faithfull enter the church heare the scriptures read if they stay not out praiers receiue the sacred communion let them as peruerters of ecclesiasticall order bee put from the communion Which words the councell of Antioch repeateth and confirmeth as agreeable to Christian discipline in their dayes Reade the church seruice which as you tell vs Iames Basill and Chrysostom coâ—posed you shall finde them publike communions not priuate masses read what Dionysius S. Pauls schâ—ler as you beare men in hand and Iustinus the martyr report of the â—â—â—â—tration of the Lords Sâ—pper in their daies This is the generall and catholike description and order of the diuine mysteries saith Dionysius that first the minister himself receiueth then imparteth the same to others Towards the end of our praiers â—aith Iustinus we salute one an other with a kisse after that bread and a cup of wine delaied with water are brought to him that hath charge ouer his brethren which he taketh and giueth thankes to the father of all through the sonne and holy Ghost his praier and thankes all the people standing by confirme with answering Amen then those which are called with vs Deacons giue euery man that is present of the bread and wine tempered with water and carie the same to such as are absent This I trowe resembleth our communion not your priuat masse this without controuersie was the catholike and Apostelike maner of solemnizing the Lordes Supper in the Primatiue church Yea the church of Rome which you woulde seeme so much to reuerence withstood this your profanation of the Lordes supper a long time with maruelous zeale Consecration ended saith Pope Calixtus let all communicate that will not stand excommunicated for so the Apostles determined and the holy Romane church obserueth The maner of the whole church in Pope Gregories time 600. yeares after Christ was for a Deacon to crie to the people Si quis non communicet det locum he that mindeth not to communicate let him auoide Pope Martine willed him to be cast out of the catholike church which entered the church of God and with held himselfe from the communion of the Sacrament Charles the Emperour 800. yeares after Christ gaue commaundement vt omnes fideles communicent ad Missas perexpectent sine alâ—a depraedicatione that all the faithfull should communicate and looke at masse so to do without other warning What need we farther proofe in a case so manifest your owne fellowes confesse no lesse In the primatiue church saith Durandus all that were present at the celebration of the Masse did euery day coÌ„municate Their oblation was a great loafe sufficient for al which the Grecians are said to continue to this day So that both the wordes of Christs institution the traditioÌ„ of the primatiue church directly refute your priuate Masses and proue the communion now vsed in the church of England to be good and catholike The Lordes supper saith Chrysostom ought to bee common For such thinges as are the Lords belong not to this or to that seruant but are commoÌ„ to all If then it be the Lords as in deed it is thou shouldst not take it as thine owne to thy selfe but propose it to all in common as being the Lordes Thou doest not suffer it to be the Lords wheÌ„ thou doest not suffer it to be coÌ„moÌ„ but eatest it thy selfe Paul calleth it the Lords supper which is receiued in common with one consent of all assembled together for vntill all communicate be partakers of that spiritual food the mysteries once set foorth are not taken away but the priests standing still stay for all yea for the poorest of all So Theodoret The Lords table is equally proposed vnto al meÌ„ of that supper all are partakers alike And Haymo The Sacrament of christs body is called a supper by reason of the communion because it ought to be common to all the faithfull and iust If this doctrine be true as there can be no question of it then are your priuat Masses far from Christs institution as far from the catholike order of Christs church which suffered no man to bee present at the time of the diuine mysteries but such as would did participate sending the rest away that could not be partakers of the Lords table And this the very name of your Masse as I haue proued doth shew signifieng the demising of all such as might not communicate which if you should do in your priuat Masses you should leaue an empty church yea the priests must take paines to serue answere himselfe since no man besides the priest hath any part of that banquet which Christ prouided for all and bequeathed vnto all to bee the monument of his passion and pleadge of their saluation With like rashnes you take from the people when you do admit them once a yeare to their rightes as you call it the cup which should be to them the communion of the Lordes blood Drinke ye all of this sayth our Sauiour and diuide it mongst you These words you repeate for a shew but you falsifie them in sense For you suffer no lay-man to tast of the Lords cup as if one part of this mystery were sufficient the rest superfluous or you might dispence with christs institution at your pleasure Phi. Christ spake that to such as were Priests not vnto the lay people The. Doth your conscience serue you Philander to play the wanton in so great and deepe mysteries of christian religion To whom then were these words spoken take ye eate ye not to the selfesame parties to whom it was said Drinke ye If none may drinke but priests because the disciples which dranke were Priests then by the same logike none should eate but priests because neither time place nor persons were chaunged betweene these two
Ecclesiasticall Lawes for 800. yeares and vpward answereth the Iesuites authorities and absurdities heaped against the Princes regiment searcheth the safest way for the Princes direction in matters of Religion and concludeth the Pope in doubts of doctrine to be no sufficient nor superiour Iudge Phi. FIRST then whereas in the Proclamation we be charged to liue contrary to the lawes of God the Realme c. We answere that if the lawes of God the lawes of the Realme did alwaies consent concur in deed as in this clause other cōmon writings speeches proceeding frō autority they be lightly in words couched togither against vs hardly could wee defende our doctrines and doings frō error vnduetifulnes towards our prince But seeing the lawes of kings and Countries are not euer consonant but may be contrary to Gods commandements we may iustly mislike the one without disloyalty to the other When Emperours saith Augustine be in errour they make lawes for their errour against the truth by which iust men are tried crowned for not doing that which they command because God forbiddeth it Theo. That some princes haue made lawes against God his truth is a case so cleare that it needed no proofe as also that wee must rather obey God than men when their lawes do swarue frō his again on the other side that princes haue made lawes for the true seruice worship of God did rightly iudge it to be a part of their charge that all they which resist those lawes shal be grieuously punished at Gods hands though you craftily dissemble you can not deny S. Austen in this very place which you bring for your defence the very next words wil tel you so much Quando autē Imperatores veritatem tenent pro ipsa veritate contra errorē iubent quod quisquis contempserit ipse sibi iudicium acquirit When Emperors hold the truth they cōmand for truth against error which cōmādement whosoeuer despiseth he purchaseth to himselfe iudgement For he shal be punished by mē haue no part with God for not doing that which truth it selfe by the kings hart commanded him These words you did wel to cut off they were enough to mar your market Phi. Not ours The. Wil you thē cōfesse that princes may commād for truth against error that whosoeuer despiseth their commandement in those cases shal incur iudgement So saith S. Austen in plaine wordes Phi. They may commaund mary the Church must appoint them what they shall commaund Theo. What mean you by the Church Phi. What should I meane by the Church but the church Theo You loue to play with wordes Mean you laimen or priests or both Phi. Euer heard you the church taken for laimen The. When S. Paul sent for the elders of Ephesus willed them to take heed to themselues the whole slocke ouer which the holy Ghost had placed them to rule or feed the Church of God what ment hee by the Church the Priestes to whom he spake or the people Phi. There you see the Priestes are to rule the Church Theo. There also you may see the Church is not to rule the Prince Phi. How doth that follow Theo. The Church is there taken for the people which must not rule but obey the Prince Phi. By the Church in my first answere I ment the Priestes and not the people Theo. Can you shew where the Church in all the Scriptures is takē for the Priests without the people Phi. We call them only Churchmen Theo. We respect not your abuse but the right vse of the word The Church is neuer taken in the new nor old Testament for the Priestes alone but generally for the whole congregation of the faithfull And therefore when you say the Prince must be ruled by the Church you dallie with a doubtfull word and put a faire colour vppon a foule cause but you must distinctly tell vs what persons you mean when you say the Church must appoint what the Prince shal command Phi. I meane Churchmen that is Priestes and Bishops Theo. And what if Churchmen do not agree which is truth as in our dayes they do not may Princes make their choyse what Churchmen they will follow Phi. No the chiefe ruler of the Church and head Bishop on earth must appoint them what faith they shall imbrace Theo. That chiefe ruler of the Church you take to be the Pope Phi. We do Theo. We like you well for your plainesse Then Princes may commaund that which the Church you meane Churchmen or if they agree not the chiefe Churchman which is the Pope shall appoint This is your assertion is it not Phi. It is Theo. What you say Princes must do for the Pope we say princes may do for Christ that is they may plant and establish the Christian faith in their Realmes by their Princely power though the Pope say nay This is our doctrine can you reproue it Phi. Who shall be iudge which is the true Christian faith Theo. You slip now to an other question It is one thing who may command for truth another who shal direct vnto truth We say Princes may command for truth punish the refusers this no Bishop may chalenge but onely the Prince that beareth the sworde This is the first part of our question And touching the second which is the safest way for princes to be guided vnto the truth though we differ about the meanes you reseruing it as a speciall priuilege to the Pope we referring it as a common duetie to the Preacher yet this is euident that Princes must be directed vnto truth the same way that al other Christians are to wit by perswasion and not by coaction For no Prelate nor Pope hath authoritie from Christ to compel priuate men much lesse princes to the profession of faith but onely to teach and instruct them These be the two pointes wee stand on disproue them if you can Phi. This is not al. You would haue Our faith and saluation so to hang on the Princes will and Lawes that there could be imagined no neerer waie to religion than to beleeue what our temporall Lord and Maister list Theo. It is a cunning when you can not confute your aduersaries at least to beelie them that you may seeme to say somewhat against them In deede your fourth chapter is wholie spent in refelling this position which we detest more than you Phi. You begin to shrinke from your former teaching Theo. You will neuer shrink frō your former facing Did euer any man on our side affirm the princes will to be the rule of faith Haue we not earnestly written and openly taught that Religion must not depend vpon the pleasures of men Haue not thowsandes of vs here in England and elsewhere giuen our liues for the witnesse and confession of Gods truth against princes lawes and Popes decrees In Spaine Fraunce Italie
and other places at this day do wee not indure all the tormentes you can deuise because wee will not beleeue what temporall Lordes and Masters list Your owne conscience knoweth it is true that wee saie Why then doe you charge vs with this wicked assertion from the which wee bee farther off than you For you holde opinion of Popes that they cannot erre we do not of Princes Why do you father your owne fansies vppon vs Why d ee you purposely peruert the question heaping absurdities and alleaging authorities against that which we do not defend Phi. The oth which you take your selues and exact of others induceth vs thus to thinke of you For there you make Princes the onely supreme Gouernours of all persons in all causes as well spirituall as temporall vtterly renouncing all forraine iurisdictions superiorities and authorities Uppon which wordes marke what an horrible confusion of all faith and Religion insueth If Princes bee the onely Gouernours in Ecclesiasticall matters then in vaine did the holy Ghost appoint Pastours and Bishops to gouern the Church If they bee supreme then are they superiour to Christ himselfe and in effect Christes Masters If in all thinges and causes spirituall then they may prescribe to the priestes and Bishops what to preach which way to worship and serue God how in what forme to minister the Sacramentes and generally howe men shall be gouerned in soule If all forraine iurisdiction must bee renounced then Christ his Apostles because they were are forreners haue no iurisdiction nor authoritie ouer England A thowsand other absurdities are consequent to this oth which anon you shall heare Theo. Wake you or dreame you Philander that in matters of no lesse weight than your duetie to God and the Prince you fall to these childish and pelting sophismes What kinde of concluding call you this Princes onely beare the sword to commaund and punish ergo Bishops may not teach and exhort Princes be not subiect to the Pope ergo superiours to Christ. They may by their lawes establish those thinges that Christ hath commaunded ergo they may change both Scriptures and Sacramentes No forrainer at this day hath any iurisdiction ouer this Land ergo Christ and his Apostles fifteene hundred yeeres ago might not preach the Gospel Phi. We make no such fond reasons Theo. The former propositions are the true contens of the oth which wee take the later are those very absurdities which you infer vpon vs for taking that oth Phi. You would slip from your words which wee knowe to your meaning which we know not but that you shal not We grouÌ„ded our absurdities vpoÌ„ the words of your oth For if princes be supreme gouernors in al spiritual things causes ergo they be supreme iudges of faith deciders of controuersies interpreters of scriptures deuisers of ceremonies appointers of sacrameÌ„ts what not The. You might euen as well haue coÌ„cluded princes be supreme gouernors in al teÌ„poral things causes ergo they be supreme guiders of graÌ„mer moderators of Logik directors of Rhetorik appointers of Musike prescribers of Medicines resoluers of al doubtes iudges of al matters incident any way to reason art or actioÌ„ If this be leud irreuereÌ„t iesting yours is no better Ph. I promise you we iest not The. The more shame for you if you be in earnest to conclude so loosely Phi. Do you make princes supreme gouernors of al spiritual things Theo. You reason as if we did but our words since you wil needes rest vpon wordes are not so Phi. What are they then The. We coÌ„fesse them to be supreme gouernors of their Realms DominioÌ„s Phi. And that in al spriritual things causes The. Not of al spiritual things causes Ph. What differeÌ„ce between those two speeches Theo. Iust as much as excludeth your wrangling Wee make them not gouernors of the things themselues but of all their subiectes which I trust you dare not withstand Phi. I grant they be gouernors of their subiects but not in Ecclesiasticall things or causes They must leaue those matters for Bishops whoÌ„ Christ hath appointed to be yâ— rulers of his church And therfore your oth yeelding that power to princes which is proper to Bishops is repugnant to the lawes of God the church nature Yea it is an euideÌ„t error reproueable by al humane diuine learning that the souerainty or supremacy in causes Ecclesiasticall is by nature or by christian lawes implied in the right title of a temporal king or that it euer was due or can be due to any temporall gouernor heathen or christiaÌ„ in the world And if you will but giue eare you shal heare what a number of absurdities we wil fasten vpon you The. This oth is a great eye sore with you and I remember I promised to discusse the same in this chapter I will therefore first examine the chiefe parts of it and after you shall obiect against it what you can Where we professe that her Highnes is the onely gouernor of this Realme the word gouernor doth seuer the magistrate from the minister sheweth a manifest differeÌ„ce between their office For Bishops be no gouernors of countries princes be that is Bishops bear not the sword to reward reuenge princes do Bishops haue no power to command punish princes haue This appeareth by the words of our Sauiour expressely forbidding his Apostles to be rulers of nations leauing it to princes The kings of nations rule ouer their people and they that be great ones exercise authority With you it shal not be so that is you shall neither beare rule nor exercise authority ouer your brethren Phi. The word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they ouerrule their subiects with iniustice violence you shal not do so Theo. So your new translatioÌ„ ouer ruleth the word howbeit Christ in that place doth not traduce the power of princes as vniust or outragious but distinguisheth yâ— calling of his Apostles froÌ„ the maner of regimeÌ„t which God hath allowed the magistrate Christ â—aith not princes bee tyrantes you shal deale more curteously than they do but he saith Princes bee Lords and rulers ouer their people by Gods ordinaÌ„ce you shal not be so Again the word which S. Luke hath is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without any composition They be Lords and masters S. Paul confesseth of himselfe other Apostles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Not that we be Lords or Masters of your faith yea the compound 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is with power force to rule meÌ„ whether they will or no not with wrong iniury to oppresse them therefore the conclusion is ineuitable that princes may lawfully compell punish their subiects which Bishops may not This distinction between them is euident by their seueral coÌ„missions which God hath signed The prince not the priest beareth the sword ergo the prince not