hands iâ— in the Church of Rome still given to the Office of Ministery and in the name of the Lord as they do also still administer Baptisme 4. That we found not either precept example or ground in the Scripture binding us to the repetition thereof 5. That the Priests and Levites in Israel becomming unclean when afterward they were cleansed retained still their places of being Priests and Levites And that the children of the Priests and Levites succeeding after them did minister without a new Anointing or new Imposition of hands yea that in the case of Idolatry the Levites repenting kept their first function and the Priests also being only debarred from the Altar but still remaining Priests both doing such duties and enjoying such benefits thereof as the other Israelites might not no nor the Levites but in cases of necessity Lev. 22. 1 9. and Ezec. 44. 10 14. 2 King 23. 9. with Lev. 21. and 24 9. Mat. 12. 4 c. Other reasons we considered also on the other hand which I need not here mention But seeing we found that it was even from the Apostles times in the Church of Rome long before she became apostate as Baptisme was and that the repeating of it among us and not regarding the having of it there is a means to strengthen the Anabaptists in their errors We stayed our selves and rested in this that the Church did chuse 5. Let it be supposed that some others are of the same opinion as you know there are whose testimonies are elsewhere produced by Dr. Hall What is the inconvenience which you so much feare by this concession That then Separation from the Church of Rome is unlawfull So Robinson and John Can imagine But if I mistake you not you your self and many others in these times can tell how to avoyd that who pretend to acknowledge the Church of England and her Assemblies to be true Churches and yet separate your selves from them and Johnson in his Plea p. 118. will help you out so as the inconvenience is not so great as you would have us to conceit it But you tell us of a third That there is a personall succession of Ministers uninterrupted by Heresie or whatsoever else may nullifie a Ministers Calling from the Apostles time to this present For if there be but One who when he was Ordained was no Minister or not Ordained all that are Ordained by him are no Ministers if Ordination be essentiall To this I answer 1. It cannot be inferred upon the supposition unlesse Ordination were the only essentiall way of calling Ministers at all times and in all cases which needs not be much insisted on 2. Though in fact a personall succession could not be proved yet of right and according to precept it might be necessary as in the case of Circumcision among the Jews from Abraham downward among his posterity during the force of that Law 3. That which you suppose that Heresie and something else you say not what may nullifie a Ministers calling as you do not prove it so it is not granted neither by all the Papists * Nulla laesionis portio aâ—â—ingit â—um qui â—â— haereticis jam damnatis ordinatur Decret par 1. dist 20 cap. 8. nor by our Protestant Writers Suppose the people who choose a Minister be indeed Hereticall if you say their Calling of him by Election alone is a nullity as therein you shall gratifie the Papists who in this respect especially except against our Calling in England because our first Reformers though Ordained persons were as they reproach them Hereticks so also will you wound your best friends in the point in hand the Socinians 4. More may be said for personall succession in way of Ordination to prove it hath been then you take notice of See Voetius to that purpose * Desp. Causa Pap. l. 2. sect 1. cap. 2. pag. 65. And as it was of some use to the Fathers in the Primitive times so it is no small comfort to the Churches now We are sorry for the death of Christian friends though we believe their resurrection and should count it no small part of our misery that Succession though now revived in Reformed Churches yet was sometime at that passe as to need a raising up again 5. Succession of Ministers is the more to be enquired into because of that promise Mat. 28. 20. I am with you alway even unto the end of the world As also because either Apostles Prophets and Evangelists or Pastors and Teachers are alwayes necessary for the perfecting of the Saints for the work of the Ministery for the edifying of the Body of Christ Eph. 4. 11 12. 6. This also is worth observing that the chief Instruments of Reformation have been raiâ—ed out of the number of Ordained persons in all places Yet 7. there is not a like necessity of the way of Calling as of the Calling it self because the Scripture examples afford and the state of the Church requires a greater liberty for the manner of Calling then for the want of Ministers And God in thrusting forth labourers into his harvest by wayes of providence with a blessing shews plainly that he is free to give as he please * CuÌ„ Dei judicio ita labefactatur Ecclesia ut jamjam ruitura videatur corruptis jam pâ—orsus ordinariis Ministris Episcopis tum solitus est Deus Extra Ordinem never excâ—tare Ministros qui rutatem Eccl siam erigant Ministerium ab ordinarits neglectum corruptuminstanrent Zanch. quo suprâ— Vide Confessionem Gallicâ—m Artic. 31. 8. For matter of succession in the way of Ordination I see no need of contending for more then is granted by some of the Separation I deny not but confesse saith Robinson * Justif of seperation pag. 322. It. page 327. ed. ult that the Church of God and more particularly the Churches of the New Testament continuing and abiding in that State faith and order wherein they were set and established by the Lord in the hands of his Seâ—vants the Apostles and Evangelists were to receive their Ministers constantly by succession after a sort namely so farre as that all succeeding Ministers were to be Ordained by Ministers and not otherwise Provided that this be added when Faith and Order are revived the same way of succession ought also to be revived because this Order is necessary to preserve that faith which was once delivered to the Saints To conclude Whatsoever may be said of the calling of our first Reformers in the case of immediate separation from Rome or of others in times of tyranny and persecution when there is no place either for an orderly Election or Ordination yet you have not brought so much as one shadow of reason why Ordination should not be necessary with us in England in the way now appointed by Ordinance of Parliament should all be granted whereby you pretend to prove That Ordination as commonly taken is not essentiall to the
ecclesia constituti Aâ—d though after he shew the invalidity of their Call ex ipsis Canonibus quos jactant out of those Canons which they boast of yet he brings not one reason to prove that Imposition of hands is not to be included in the Originall word so much insisted on And if the word Elders used in that Text be to be taken synecdochically for Pastors Deacons and Ruling Elders as he there expounds it why may it not as well be said that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 though it signifâ—â— choosing does also include Ordaining because it appears by Act. 6. that with choosing Ordination by Imposition of hands was also used This by the way to your Parenthesis To the Inconvenience it self I answer 1. The Ordination of Româ—sh Priests as Priests is a meer nullity because the Priesthood iâ— self is so but their Ordination adonus Presbyterii to Preach and administer the Sacraments is of another nature and therefore these must not be confounded together the rather because in their manner of Ordaining they are really distinguished * Vide Pontisicale Romanum 2. Though some of our Divines deny a lawfull Ministery and Calling thereunto to be in the Roman Hierarchy as * Beza and Sadeel not as making of it to be simply invalid and null but extreme sinfull yet they must not be interpreted too rigorously unlesse we mean to set Protestants at variance among themselves to our own prejudice And that 1. Because the Lutherans do maintain the ordinary Call which Luther had in the Church of Rome as sufficient And 2. not they only but divers also of the Calvinists as Voetius Forbes Festus Homius c. 3. They who say there was sometâ—ing extraordinary in Luthers Calling do place that extraordinarinesse rather in his spirit gifts successe and manner of ministery than in the Call it self and therefore make his Calling mixt 3. The most judicious and best approved amongst us do hold That as Baptisme so Ordination euen in Rome is so far forth valid that upon separation from them and joyning with us there needs neither new Baptisme nor a new Ordination 4. We all agree that a Call from Rome is not necessary at all against the Papists who make the Pope to be the fountain of Order and Jurisdiction 5. This inconvenience follows not at at all upon the opinion that Ordination is essentiall but upon that mistake only that the lawfull way of Calling is one onely in all cases and conditions of the Church wherein whesoever engages either for Election or Ordination apart and much more for both together will be sure to plunge himself into inextricable labyrinths I approve our men saith Reverend Forbes who sustain our ordinary Vocation in common but who plead so for it as a point absolutely requisite for approving our cause and in such a case of the Church do place all defence therein in my judgement they do wrongly limit the Holy One of Israel against both the priviledge of his power and his usuall manner of dealing in such cases Forbes Defence of the lawfull Calling sec 28. pag. 60. To your second inconvenience That then the Church of Rome is a true Church and Spouse of Christ I answer 1. It followes not because in a false Church there may be something true 2. Many Protestant Divines are not afraid to grant that in some sense it is a true Church So at the whole Church was not extinct in Rome neither did the Ministery altogether perish there * â—â—a ut sicut non penitus extiâ—cta ibi suit Ecclesia sic neque penitus interitrit ibi Miniâ—terium Zanch. iâ— 4 prâ—â— 3. This objection is so fully answered by all our Writers of this subject against the Papists that it is not worth the while to transcribe them Vide Voetium quo supra 4. Those who are commonly called Brownists are sufficiently zealous against Rome and yet even among them the more moderate part as Johnson and his followers do not only grant that the Society commonly called the Church of Rome is a true Church without all fear of inconvenience but labour at large to prove it * Christian Plea by Fran. Johnson Printed Anno 1617. hom pag. 119. â—â— 215. The more rigid of them who deny that which he grants as Robinson and Ainsworth yet acknowledge that in Rome there are some true Ordinances as Baptisme for instance And in granting the administration of Baptisme with those of Rome to be valid and yet denying the Church to be true they must needs reject your consequence As the Lord hath his people in Babylon saith Robinson his I mean both in respect of Election and of personall Sanctification so hath he for their sakes there preserved notwithstanding all the apostasie and confusion which is found in it sundry his holy Truths and Ordinances amongst which Baptisme is one Robins justificat of Separat ed. ult p. 232. If the question he whether Ordination or Imposition of hands be not another Ordinance reteined in Rome from the beginning the Reader shall do well to weigh what follows here out of Mr. Johnson one of no mean account among the Brethren of the Separation Whereas one that was Minister in the Church of England was after chosen Teacher to a Separate Congregation without any new Imposition of hands he labours for to justifie it after this manner in his Ans to the Letter of H. A. touching the division among themselves p. 50. seq The Anabaptists holding saith he that Antichrist hath utterly destroyed all Gods ordinances so as there was not so much as true Baptisme reteined and had among them h. e. in Rome or England thereupon they began to baptize themselves again Whose errors while we confuted and while some of them objected that we should no more retain the Baptisme then the Ministry there received we had just occasion thereupon to consider thereof and so weighing with our selves that one main and speciall reason against Rebaptization is because Baptisme is an ordinance of God which was had in the Church of Rome before she fell into apostasie and hath been there continued ever since the Apostles times however it be co-mingled among them with many corruptions and inventions of their own we began to consider Whether the like might not be observed and said concerning Imposition of hands that it was had from the Apostles in the Church of Rome before her apostasie and is there continued to this day though mixed with many pollutions and devises of their own And entring into a consideration thereof we observed 1. That Imposition of hands is of God and not an invention of man not a post or threshold first brought by Antichrist into the temple of God but had therein afore Antichrist sate there 2. That Baptisme and Imposition of hands are joyned together among the principles of the foundation spoken of Heb. 6. 2. which we thought therefore should in this behalf be well regarded 3. That Imposition of
THE ΔΙΑΤΡΙΒΗ Proved to be ΠΑΡΑΔΙΑΤΡΙΒΗ OR A VINDICATION of the Judgement of the Reformed Churches and Protestant Divines From misrepresentations Concerning Ordination and Laying on of hands Together with a brief ANSWER to the Pretences of Edmond Chillenden for the lawfulnesse of Preaching without ORDINATION By Lazarus Seaman LONDON Printed by T. R. E. M. for John Rothwell at the Sun and Fountain in Pauls church-yard 1647. TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE Edward Earle of Manchester Viscount Mandeville Baron of Kimbolton My Lord MAY it please Your HONOUR to take this Dedication as an humble and gratefull acknowledgement of those many favours and incouragements which out of YOUR exuberant Goodnesse alone and not for my desert which is not have been vouchsafed to me And as a token that I would be thankfull and duly respectfull if I did know how to expresse either These are Times wherein Truth must learn to go alone to stand by her own strength The methods and depths of Satan with the power of darknesse are all improved against Light and an arm of flesh will prove a broken reâ—d to those who trust in it Yet I shall ever repute YOUR LORDSHIP among those who have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ the Lord of glory with respect of persons JAM 3. 1. who are willing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to contend earnestly for the maintenance of the faith once given unto the Saints JUDE 3. And therefore though I dare not presume or in any wise expect to ingage You on my part in the debate about Ordination and Laying on of hands which is presented in the ensuing Papers yet upon experience of YOUR naturall love to Godly Ministers upon all occasions I make bold to creep under the wing of YOUR Patronage upon occasion of this Publication That Honours and Dignities are slippery places These stormy and blustrous times And that Christ ownes none as being of his side but those who are Called Chosen and Faithfull REV. 17. 14. YOUR LORDSHIP knows assuredly And YOU need not be put in mind by me that they who do wickedly against the Covenant whether God's or Mans are such as are corrupled by slatteries Neither is this without the bounds of YOUR consideration That Without understanding Covenant-breakers ROM 1. 31. are joyned together in the sad Catalogue of those who are given up 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to vile affections ROM 1. 26. and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to a reprobate minde vers 28. As the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sound alike so are the things thereby signified of like nature and serve not only against Covenant-breakers but against Non-covenanters if the sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be well observed There 's onely one thing which remains for me to be YOUR Remembrancer in CHRIST'S promise to the Angel of the Church of Smyrna REV. 2. 10. Be thou faithfull unto death and I will give thee a crown of life Which Grace to be faithfull unto death that it may abide with You and abound and Glory to receive a Crown of life That YOUR LORDSHIP may attain in Heaven after fulnesse of dayes on Earth is and shall be the prayer of YOVR HONOVRS humbly devoted in the service of CHRIST our Lord L. S. To the READER I Know not well how to appeare in Print either with or without an Apologie To speak of mine own insufficiencie especially in matters of Controversie which will too much evidence it self or to plead incumbrance by imployments otherwise is but to put that Question into the mouths of others against me Who required this at your hands And seeing One hath already possessed the mindes or hands of many as he pretends to prove with The Judgement of Reformed Churches and Protestant Divines concerning Ordination c For me to adde more may seem superfluous And to contradict him if his Evidence be true and full whereof he seems to be confident is at the least a rash adventure I know not better how to extricate my self and stand cleare with those who are to judge of all that is hereafter presented but by this ingenuous account It moved me not a little to finde in print some sheets pretending one way and intending another To shew the Judgement of the Reformed Churches this way the Ivie-bush held out and hereupon an Historicall collection out of their Consessions or Agenda's and Books of Discipline might be expected and yet nothing is to be found out of either And that which is produced is only Negative concerning one or two particulars to the sense of the Socinians and Anabaptists rather then agreeable to the generall opinion of those who are Orthodox Whereas Testimony was the fairest way to have proceeded in that 's waved for the most part and a flourish of Arguments serv'd in instead of it I considered on the one hand the presumption of many intruding into the work of the Ministery and taking the profit or ambitious of the credit of it and how Some preach others out of the Calling to preach themselves into it and that of late many Old Errors are revived under the name of New-Light as by some others so by many inordinate or unordained Preachers and People in stead of blessing God as they ought to do for that Ministery which is famous through all the Reformed Churches and to which as a meanes under God Saints in England now living or dead in this last Century owe themselves all that they are do notwithstanding withdraw themselves and separate from it And on the other hand that Both the Houses of Parliament had witnessed against those who Preach unordained and one of them about the time of publishing of those Papers which I direct an Answer unto was in a way of questioning those who Preached contrary to their Order And that it is Ministers duty to strengthen the hands of Magistrates in well-doing when they shew themselves to be as they ought to be Nursing fathers to the good and a terror to the evill And fearing also that the Diatribe was intended in opposition to those proceedings of the Parliament or at least that it might prove prejudiciall thereunto I was inclined to consider of it hoping that as the sheets were not many so the Animadversions which I should need to make upon them would not be long And because I had reason to think he looked not only forward as if Ordination was not necessary for the future but backward as if it were nothing for the time past I thought my self with all other the Ministers of the Church of England the more concerned in his Positions And however some may be offended that Papacie and Episcopacie should be both exploded and yet that that Calling in a way of Ordination which is successively from both or one at least either in deed or in shew should be reteined still and not renounced though in my own particular I am moved at it no more then to find Rahab and Thamar among those through
him onely who is elected and that because he is elected Ans Upon what ground you intitle that book so often cited to the Brethren and sometime to the Church of Scotland generally I know not unlesse it be to deâ—â—de the Reader or upbraid the Brethren and the Church Some of them have been long in England as Commissioners from that Church and have not been silent where they had occasion to debate Besides their Works speak for them as the great paines of Reverend Mr. Rutherford at large to the point in hand * Due right of Presb. from p. 178. to 241. Before their arrivall here there was a learned Tract of Patrick Forbes of Corse to cleare the Call of Ministers in the Reformed Churches and particularly in Scotland against Objections of the Papists As to these particular passages here cited you wrong both the Author the Reader and the Truth it self by leaving out all those expressions whereby Ministers and Elders are interessed in Election as distinguished from Ordination and by misapplying those words which you have expressed But whiles saith he we plead for the Election of People we adde 1. Let the Clergy of the adjacent bounds in their Presbyteriall assembly try and judge who are fit for the Ministery 2. Even when it comes to Election yet Populus non solus judicat sed praeeunte moderante actionem Presbyterio the words of Junius Let the Elders of the Congregation together with some of the Clergy concurring with them moderate the action and go before the body of the People Would to God that these things were observed by all I adde Amen for then an act of Ministers and Elders in judging of the Calling of a particular person would alwayes be found in praxi and without it all choice by People alone would be counted null and invalid Whereas you say he speaks of Ordination in generall and yet instances it as to a particular Flock the truth is he speaks there only of Ordination to a particular flock and not of Ordination in generall untill he come to the next page It followeth saith he to speak of Ordination pag. 168. wherein with Calvin Junius Gersom Bucer and other learned men we distinguish between the act of it and the rite of it The act of Ordination standoth in the mission or deputation of a man to an Ecclesiasticall function with power and authority to perform the same Now that Ordination at thus described is essentiall to a Calling he himself implies by these words For how shall they preach except they be sent speaking of such a sending as he had before stated That Ministers should not be obtruded invito populo against the peoples will is the sum of all which he pleads for and will not be gainsaid where the people are Saints and Orthodox but it will not thence follow that People have a power to make one a Minister excluso or invito Presbyterio without or against or otherwise then by a Presbyterie Suppose a man had by Election jus ad rem power to be a Pastor yet he is not therefore or thereby a Pastor actually and if Ordination be that which gives jus in re no man is to act as a Pastor till he be ordained And if Election do only design a man to be made a Minister and Ordination be that act whereby he is so made I hope it will be plain that as the introducing of the form is essentiall in creating rather then preparing the matter or masse which iâ— to receive it so Ordination will be found to be essentiall rather then Election though Election may precede in time and Ordination follow after 6. A Minister may want and be without Ordination in The sixth Argument some cases therefore it is not essentiall to his Calling Thus Gregor Thaumaturgus was and others may be in times of persecution Ans Here you fight against your self if one word be changed A Minister may want and be without Election in some cases therefore it is not essentiall to his Calling This is commonly judged to be the case of our first Reformers and may be the case of others in times of extreme persecution You care not to wound your self so as you may strike others There must be a voice from heaven i. e. a true Ministery to bring men out of Babylon * Non potâ—iâ— Ecclesia restitui nisi restituto Ministerio de formâ ecclesiae visibilis loquor quia non alia ratione quâ—m praedicatione Evangelii vel instaurari ecclesta vel instaurata potest conservari Sadeel de legit vocatione Min. p. 7. Verum hâ—c summo studic attendi debet quòd vocationis Ministrorum verbi divini necessitas huc usque adstructa non ad quod vis tempus etiam corruptae ecclesiae atque turbatae salsa doctrinâ— atque immani persecutione Nam ubi ecclesia aut salsa doctrinâ turbata aut persecutione dissipata est it aut desint qui sinceros verbi divini Mâ—nistros 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vocate possint â—elint hac certè rerum necessitate extrema concedit Deus ut quivis qui volunlotis divine gnari sunt verbum Dei praedicent Sacramenta administrent collapsam veritatem restaurent quaeviâ— munia sacra citra ordinariam vocationem obeant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 222. Rev. 18. 4. but who shall either ordain or elect when Clergy and Laity I use the words only for distinction sake are equally corrupted At such a time where-ever God providentially sets up a standard his people may flock unto it and if they find a burning and a shining light it sufficeth that they know it is not of men but from heaven and that they ought to walk in the light of it But you adde This argument Voetius presseth larger and sheweth even by confession of Papists that one Elected or chosen may without Ordination do all the Offices of a Minister as Excommunicate Absolve and concludes it is no more to the essence of a Minister then bowing of the knee externally is essentiall to ptayer to God or the leading of the Bride and pomp of a wedding day is to Mariage Desper causa Papat 266 267. Ans 1. Voetius speaks not of Ordination there as an act of Ministers and Elders distinct from the rite of laying on hands 2. The Papists distinguish between the power of Order and Jurisdiction though they grant Election gives jurisdiction yet it is but in some cases and those things which belong to Order can be done by none but by Ordained persons according to their principles Neither 3. doth Voetius produce any such confession of the Papists as you here assert he doth that one elected or chosen may without Ordination do all the offices of a Minister And the instances which you give of Excommunication and Absolution both of which belong to Jurisdiction shew plainly of what kind of actions the Papists are to be understood and such are all those cases which you
calling of a Minister But as to the regular and ordinary lawfull Calling of a Minister if precept and examples out of Scripture the generall practise of the Church in all ages from the Primitive downward with that of the Reformed Churches ever since the foundations of the Second-Temple-mysticall have been laid among them or arguments drawn out of Scripture and from the judgement of Protestant Divines conforme thereunto will determine any Question I shall presume notwithstanding all you have insisted on unto the contrary That Ordination h. e. an act of Ministers and Elders as such whereby they IN THE NAME OF CHRIST separate and set apart a meet person to the Work and office of a Minister is necessary and more or lesse essentiall to his Calling For Imposition of hands though many things unavoydably as either You those Authors which you have cited or the nature of the thing gave occasion have been touched upon about it yet it followes now more particularly to be considered Yet stay a while Upon perusall of the papers after the Presse had made some progresse I take notice of a double oversight one in my self another in you besides some errata's of the Printer In the transcribing of your part a few things are unwittingly omitted which should be in the margin yet for the things themselves you shall find an answer Only one passage which is with you pag. 8. in the body of the Tract I forgot to set down at length and therefore though out of place I supply it here which should have been inserted pag. 29. before the fourth reason This meaning your third is the reason of Crocius in Anti Soc. diâ—p 24. see 3. defence of the Protestants against the Socinians Distinguimus inter necessitatem Vocationis Ordinationis sayes he We distinguish between the necessity of having a Call and of being Ordained * Illa est necessaria ratione mandati haec ratione ordinis consâ—itutionis Ecclesiasticae Illa est constitutio in officio quae si legitima est duo habet 1. Vt à Dco quis eligatur 2. Vt per antâ—cedentem poâ—uli consensum eligatur A Deo eligitur cum ipse donis exornaâ— c. A Calling is necessary by reason of Gods command Ordination is necessary in respect of order and Ecclesiasticall constitution The Calling is the Constitution of one in Office which if it be lawfull hath two things in it 1 That one be chosen of God 2 That he be chosen by the antecedent consent of the people One chosen of God when he is adorned with gifts c. To this besides what I have already said pag. 28. lin 22. seq I shall now adde further 1. That the Socinians insisting only upon this question Whether a Constitution by way of Ordination be altogether necessary to the making of a Minister are not as you think to be opposed neither are the Reformed Churches nor Protestant Divines of any other judgement then they and therefore what needs Crocius to defend the Protestants against them in this point or professe himself Anti-Socinian unlesse he will say more for Ordination then they have done which cannot well be but by holding it to be essentiall 2. It 's granted that there is lesse necessity of Ordination then of Calling yea that Ordination is not alwayes alike necessary but according to the state of the Church And it might be proved that there is a case wherein it is so far from being necessary that it is not lawfull But it will not thence follow that in no case it is essentiall 3. Those Scriptures which prove the lawfulnesse of it will prove more For we cannot argue from the bare example of the Apostles Thus they did therefore we may do the same Because it follows not in all things Therefore De Eccl. Pontis Praejud Disser 6. p. 149. Crocius in a later Work flies to 1 Tim. 5. 22. for his ground and proof and there we have a precept 4. That Order and Ecclesiasticall constitution which he speaks of can be understood of none other then Apostolicall and those things which the Apostles wrote about Order were commandements 1 Cor. 14. 37. 5. Whereas he sayes A Calling is necessary by Gods command and after seems to shew what he means by Calling namely that the person constituted be chosen by the antecedent consent of the People You know full well no command of God can be found for this way of Calling but as it is gathered out of examples by consequence from Act. 1. and the 6 chap. And if those examples imply a command for the Peoples Election one way I would hear some solid reasons why the like command is not to be concluded out of examples for Ordination 6. Whether the antecedent consent of the People be alwayes necessary is not the point at present under debate But this is his sense That the power of choosing is the right of the whole Church and belongâ—th not to the People alone as we commonly understand the word And the antecedent consent of Ministers and Elders is I 'le be bold to say it necessary unto a Call And that granted suffices to the matter of Ordination as it is here considered 7. To that That one is chosen of God when he is adorned with gifts I think you your self make some scruple of it When the Ministers of England have pleaded among other things to prove their Calling the gifts which God had given them Those of the Separation in their Writings are wont to tell them Qualification is no Calling Neither dare I say Every one that is sit to be a Minister is called to be one And in a mediate Calling the testimony of competent Judges concerning Abilities and the right to exercise them is most necessary and that useth to be in the orderly way of Gods prescribing in the Word by Ordination Now Sir give me leave to minde you of an oversight in yourself You told us in your Title-page of the Judgement of the Reformed Churches as a distinct part from that of Protestant Divines Why are none of their Confessions cited or Books of Discipline Make they for you or against you If they be on your side would you spare to tell us Suppose they were against you yet you might not conceale it while you pretend to hold it out As for particular men their Judgement is not tanti if it agree not with the Church in generall He that made the Observations on the Harmony of Confessions in English will help you out a little but the Confessions themselves are not as it seems for your turn As for the Divines which you have cited of the Lutherans there are but two Hunnius and Tarnovius and of the Calvinists but three Ames Voetius and Cortiuâ— Though each of them be Reverend yet they are but of yesterday either living or lately dead too few to make up a full verdict touching the Historicall part of the point in question Indeed you have not
so much as one witnesse to your Thesis of Ordination as it was stated in the beginning As for the English Popish Ceremonies whether one alone composed that Tract or many concurred together by their joint endeavours I know not I take it for no more then a single and in many things for a singular and solitary Testimony What think you of Protestant Estates Is not their Judgement considerable If they do not hold Ordination to be essentiall why have they ever been so strict in urging it You know our Worthies assembled in Parliament are under a Solemn Vow and Covenant to reform according to the Word of God and the Example of the best Reformed Churches and in pursuance thereof they have declared it as a thing manifest by the Word of GOD * Ordinance of Parliament for Ordination pro tempore That no man ought to take upon him the office of a Minister untill he be lawfully Called and Ordained thereunto And that the work of Ordination that is to say An outward solemn setting apart of persons for the Office of the Ministery in the Church by Preaching Presbyters is an Ordinance of Christ This they have since attested unto in the same words in other Ordinances of Theirs giving power to Ordain unto Classicall Presbyteries And that this sense of Theirs might be better taken notice of they have further Ordered as here followeth Die Sabbathi 26 April 1645. IT is this day Oâ—dered and Declared by the Lords and 〈◊〉 in Parliament â—â—sâ—â—abled That no â—erson be permitted to Preach who is not Oâ—dained a Minister either in this or some other Reâ—oâ—med Church except such as intending the Ministery shall be allowed for the â—â—yall of their 〈◊〉 by those who shall be appointed thereunto by boâ—h Houses of Parliament It is this day Ordered by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled That this Ordinance be forthwith printed and published And that it be forthwith sent to Sir THOMAS FAIRFAX with an earnest desire and recommendation from both Houses That he take care that this Ordinance may be duly observed in the Army and that if any shall transgresse this Ordinance that he make speedy representation thereof to both Houses that the Offenders may receive condigne punishment for their contempts It is further Ordered by the Lords and Commons That this Ordinance be forthwith sent to the Lord Mayor and Committee of the Militia in London to the Governours Commanders and Magistrates of all Garrisons Forces Places of strength Cities Towns â—orts and Ports And to the severall and respective Committees of the severall and respective Counties with the like injunction unto them respectively and that they take care that this Ordinanâ—e be duly observed in the places aforesaid respectively and that they make speedy representation to both Houses of such as shall offend herein that they may receive condigne punishment Die Jovis 31. Decemb. 1646. A Declaration of the Commons assembled in Parliament Against all such Persons as shall take upon them to Preach or Expound the Scriptures in any Church or Chappel or any other publique place except they be Ordained either here or in some other Reformed Church THE Commons assembled in Parliament do Declare That they do dislike and will proceed against all such persons as shall take upon them to Preach or Expound the Scriptures in any Church or Chappel or any other publique place except they be Ordained either here or in some other Reformed Church as it is already prohibited in an Order of both Houses of 26. April 1645. And likewise against all such Ministers or others as shall publish or maintain by Preaching Writing Printing or any other way any thing against or in derogation of the Church-government which is now established by the authority of both Houses of Parliament And also against all and every person or persons who shall willingly and purposely interrupt or disturb a Preacher who is in the publique Exercise of his Function And all Justices of Peace Sheriffs Mayors Bailiffs and other Head-Officers of Corporations And all Officers of the Army are to take notice of this Declaration and by all lawfull wayes and means to prevent offences of this kind and to apprehend the offenders and give notice hereof unto this House that thereupon course may bee speedily taken for a due punishment to be inflicted on them For the Example of the best Reformed Churches if thereby you understand as some do those of new-New-England how ever their Elders speak â—â— part as you have done yet by their Practise they make it essentiall for why else is it that they put the power and aâ—t of Ordaining into the peoples hand or some of their deputing when they have no Officers and in their Doctrine they hold it Necessary by Divine Institution * Church Government and Church Covenant discussed pag. 67. For those of the separation these are the words of their Confession Art 23. that every Christian Congregation hath power and Commandment to elect and ordaine their own Ministerie according to the rules in Gods word prescribed And if there be a commandement for Ordination as well as for Election why should not the former be essentialâ— as well as in their account the latter is Whether every congregation have the power is no part of the present question and thereforâ— as they affirme it I deny it and passe it by Those who are wont to â—e called Non-conformists in that book of Common-prayer which they advised * Printâ—d at Lonâ—on by Ro. Wâ—â—de-graâ—e they speak of the Election and Ordination of Ministers to the Election they call in neighbour-Ministers After that say they he is to be ordained by the laying on of the hands of the Eldership with these words pronounced by the Miâ—ister thereunto appointed According to this lawfull calling agreeable to the word of God wherby thou art chosen pastor IN THE NAME OF GOD stand thou charged with the pastorall charge of this people over which the Holy-Ghost hath made thee Overseer to governe this flock of God which he hath purchased with his bloud Among thâ—m there are two of great eminency whose expressions I shall here adde One the Reverend Mr. Arthur Hildersam who in that letter which Johnson in his Treatise of the Ministry * Page 117. pretends to answer makes a right Ordination into the office a substantiall part of a true Calling to the Ministerie The other Mr. H. Jacob whose old books have furnished those who are known among us by the name of Independents with their new light and all subtilties wherby they would be thought to distinguish themselves from Brownists There are two essentiall parts of Calling to the Ministery these are his words * Attestation ch 8. pag. 299. Election and Ordination And though he make Imposition of hands but a ceremony yet he adds Howbeit I suppose Christs Church offendeth in omitting of it for though it be but a ceremony yet it is Apostolick And howsoever in this place
especially to be used for the lawfull Calling of ordinary Pastors Election of those who are to be called and Ordination of those who are elected But this is cleer out of the former Testimony that notwithstanding the difference of the phrases by the laying on of Pauls hands and with the laying on of the hands of the Presbyterie the latter cannot be so understood as to give unto the Presbyterie in his judgement a bare concurrence because then it could not be a ground of using the rite either at the Present or in former ages 3. For those expressions It s not to be used with opinion of necessity and the rest they are indeed Proviso's or rather some excerpta extracts of those things which the Author brings in by way of providing the summe whereof is 1. Laying on of hands is to continue if it be not used with opinion of necessity Nor 2. as a sacred significant Ceremony But naked testimony avails little especially when it iâ— is single or singular Therefore I answer 1. Necessity must be distinguished Simple necessity with relation to all times and cases is asserted by none but Papists Necessity secundum quid in some respect either for Orders sake or to avoyd scandall is acknowledged by those Protestants who make least account of Laying on of hands As it must be granted that all examples either of Christ or his Apostles have not the nature of a Law so must it also be maintained that some have and I think as much may be said for this in particular I mean the Apostles practise in Ordination as for any other or as much as for the gesture of sitting in receiving the Sacrament At present here 's nothing but bare Assertion and therefore the lesse need to dwell upon the particular 2. If Imposition of hands be a signe and as your Author calls it a morall signe it must in some sense be sacred because the subject of it and manner of using belong unto the first Table and as a signe it is essentiall to it to be significant That grace is given by and with the Ordination of the Ministers when Cartwright against the Them on 1 Tim 4 14. it is duly given and received we willingly yield because the words of the Scripture beare it Thus much Cartwright grants unto the Rhemists in the name of Protestants To your fourth Reason pag. 14. If laying on of hands be essentiall to a Ministers Call then are the Ministers of the Reformed Churches no Ministers For though they use Laying on of hands now as a thing indifferent yet they who used it first had it not themselves I answer The Consequence is denied 1. Because Laying on of hands contrary to what you say hath continued in most of the Reformed Churches successively to this day as in England Denmark and many parts of Germany For England in this respect the spight and envy of the Papists hath been especially set against the Ministry of it And though * Tractatu de vocatione Ministrorum Champney labours to invalid all which Mason alledges de Ministerio Anglicano to prove succession yet in his Epistle to George Abbot then Archbishop of Canterbury he confesseth he heard that the said Archbishop caused some Popish Priests to be brought before himself and some others in Commission with him that they might testifie they had seen those Publike Acts which Mason urged for his proof For Denmark and also for divers parts of Germany I refer you to Melchior Adamus in the life of Bagenhagius p. 315. 2. Because there are times wherein neither Election nor Ordination as Church-acts are essentiall unto a Ministers Calling as in part hath been cleered already and will further appear in that which follows To your large Quotation out of Beza on Act. 14. 23. in these words Some said he chuse to refer this to Laying on of hands as Quidâ—m hoc â—â—ferre 〈◊〉 ad manuuÌ„ impositionem quae ipsa siâ— proâ—sus necessaria hoc praetextâ— accepto vocationem nostram irritam esse dicunt quâ—niam Ordinarii quos vocan nobis manus non imposuerunt sive quòd no sumus in Romana ecclesia ordinati Resp ipsis canonibus quâ—s jactant irritam esse consecrationem cui non praeirit legitima elâ—ctiâ— aut quae fit Excommunicaro Ostendant autem ipsi vel unumin tota illo Hierarchia qui legitimè sit vocatus imo qui non sit centies ipso jure excommunicatus si ipsi eorum Synodis statur Not â—â—itur cur ab illis Impositionem manuuÌ„ peâ—eremus aut quâ— sure ipsi nobis eam tribuerent Habemus autem nos Dei beneficio certas nostrae vocationis notaâ— legitimo ab ecclesiis nostris vitae doctrinae testim nio per Dei gratiam ornati ab iâ—sdem electi ac demum etian invocate Dei nomine in noâ—tro Ministerio confirmati cui Dominus ut spero ejectis tum suribus tum mercenariis benedicet if it also were altogether necessary and under this pretence say Our Calling is null because the Ordinaries as they call them have not laid hands on us or because we are not Consecrated in the Church of Rome I answer by those Canons which they boast of the Consecration is null where there was not first a lawfull choice or which was done by one who is excommunicated Let them shew but one in all their Hierarchy who is lawfully chosen yea who is not by the very Law a hundred times Excommnicate if they will stand to their own Synods Why should we therefore desire hands to be laid on us by them or by what Law can they do it But we have by the blessing of God certain marks of our Calling being through the grace of God adorned with the lawfull Testimony of our Life and Doctrine from our Churches and after that by calling upon the name of God confirmed in our Ministery which God I hope will blesse and cast out both the Theeves and Hirelings Ans These few and briefe Notes may suffice for answer 1. Beza gives no reason at at all to prove why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the word there spoken of should not be referred to laying on of hands or why it should imply some joint act of the Apostles and of the Churches But of this enough before 2. The whole passage is rather an apologie for want of Imposition of hands in some than to shew that it is needlesse in all 3. It s granted that in such a case as he speaks of the first comming out to Babylon it was not necessary to return back again to Popish Bishops for Ordination and to this his reasons are strong but what is that to the regular and ordinary way of Calling 4. It 's worth observing how he begins Some chuse to refer this to Laying on of hands For indeed they were not only Papists who urged the necessity of having hands laid on and it seems from this place but Protestants
What he sayes of the precise urging of the Ceremony is to be understood of the urging of it upon Popish grounds The foolish questions which he means are those in a Popish Canon de triplici manuum impositione una Ordinatoria altera Confirmatoria tertia Curatoria and such like 5. It 's granted that he sayes expresly that Laying on of hands is not essentialis pars ritus legitimae vocationis and that it is in rerum indifferentium numero retineri omitti potest pro more regionis in qua electus ordinatur This last is more then you have yet acknowledged And if it be to be reteined pro more regionis according to the custome of the Country it must continue in use among us for ought that you have said or can say to prove it Non-essentiall Now thus it follows And with them agrees the Church of Scotland The Engl. pop cer pag. 168 169. Church hath full liberty to use any other decent rite or to use no rite at all beside a publike declaration the Church is not not tyed to use any rite at all by the Word of God in the giving of Ordination Ans What 's the matter that you cite this book so often Are you in love with English Popish Ceremonies or do you take that Book for an Oracle Or do you think the Church of Scotland will abide by every expression to be found therein Or is there no other way to know the sense of the Church of Scotland but by that Book Are you of the same judgement with that Church or any of those Protestant Divines whom you have cited so much as in this one head of Ordination and the rite of it I feare nothing lesse The Church of Scotland is at an agreement within it self and with such eminent Divines abroad as Chemnitius and Danaeus but you and they differ if I be not mis-informed more then a little But 2. to the thing it self Liberty of devising new rites in Ordination is neither sâ—fe to be granted by way of doctrine nor to be used in practice especially in those Churches which have suffered much under pretence and by the abuse of such liberty and who in other things are strict urgers of examples as binding and that in matter of Rite 3. Those Scriptures which tye the Church to Ordination tye her also to the Rite which we are speaking of Or tell us where you find a Scripture for the one and not for the other That which follows whether intended as a fifth reason or as an excursion only I know not though it be confused yet it sufficiently discovers what you aim at viz. To make those who were Ordained by Bishops no Ministers under pretence that they were Ordained by them as a Superiour Order unto Presbyters and so you slide into another Question Whether the Person ordaining or imposing hands be of the essence of the Call I shall lay down all your own words entire and then answer Thus you pag. 16. Yea suppose it essentiall and then whereas it hath been held against the Brownists that the Ministery in the Church of England is not null though the Bishops laid on their hands who should not have had a finger in it because an extrinsecall Circumstance failing or being corrupted a thing ceases not to be yet if it be made Essentiall what shall be said Seeing both in the Bishops intention in ordaining and in the profession of the Party ordained hands were laid on him not as a Presbyter formally but as one of a superior Order to Elders and for such an Order there is no Divine institution As therefore that Baptisme must be repeated which was administred by a person not lawfully called to the ministration of it if the Person ministring be essentiall to Baptisme so must that person be Ordained again who had hands laid on by a Bishop as a Bishop if Laying on of hands be essentiall to the Ministery Whatsoever wants its Essentials is not though it seems to be Ans Let the Questions be propounded distinctly which are here involv'd and then it will be easier for any one to judge 1. What will follow concerning the Ministery in the Church of England if Laying on of hands be essentiall I answer That the Ministers of England who have Hands laid on them have that which is essentiall to their Calling Who can imagine otherwise upon the supposition 2. But seeing Ministers in England were Ordained by Bishops as a superiour Order to Elders and no such Order is of Gods appointing nor ought to be is not their Calling null in that respect Ans No iâ— is not 1. Because neither Church nor State did ever declare Bishops to be a superiour Order though some of them for they were but some made such a claim The State hath often declared against it not only by books approved by them as in the dayes of Henry the 8. but by severall acts of Parliament in King Edwards time and since 2. Because Bishops only and alone were never authorised to lay on hands excluding other Prâ—sbyters but together with them 3. Bishops were Elders first before they came to be Bishops and of Elders were made Bishops in way of accumulation not in way of privation Their error that they thought themselves a superiour Order above Presbyters could not make them no Presbyters 4. All Ordinations are counted valid which are performed in a setled Church with the consent of Magistrate Ministers and People whether the Ordainers be Bishop Superintendent or a Presbyterie This principle is maintained both by the Lutherans and Calvinists as you use to distinguish For the Lutherans I refer you to Hen. Ekhardus in opusculo de Ordine Ecclesiastico pag. 5â— and to Nicolaus Hunnius Demonst Min. Lutherani pag. 294. For others Zanchy sayes quo supra Nihil refert sive ab omnibus praesentibus Ministris sive ab uno omnium nomine imponantur manus It matters not whether hands be laid on by all the Ministers who are present or by one in the name of the rest So he And I think it might be added nor how many be present the Quorum is but of prudentiall determination Pareus speaks more largely * Comment ad Rom. 10. 15. The lawfull Calling of the Church is that which is instituted in every Church by publike authority for Orders sake unto edification Neque enim uniformis est omnium ubique quoad circumstantias externas sed libertati Ecclesiae relicta 5. To speak my own judgement When sin cleaves to the manner of Calling through the generall error or corruption of all sorts who are concerned in it though such a Calling cannot be said to be legitima or legi proxima but is displeasing to God and null in some sense as unworthy receiving of the Sacrament is counted no receiving 1 Cor. 11. 20. and sinfull fasting no fasting Zach. 7. 5. yet it is not otherwise to be invalidated here below than by doctrinall censure and