either 2. They are under a judiciall blindness God has given them reason and understanding eyes that they might see hearts that they might understand but they wilfully shut their eyes against that light and then by the just judgment of Almighty God this light is taken from them they are given up to blindness of mind and hardness of heart as were the antient heathens Rom 1. 3. Their lives are utterly contrary to the holy nature of God to his sacred word there is an antipathy an emnity betwixt their Debaucheries their filthiness their profaneness and his most holy laws Rom. 8.7 every line of it flyes in their faces threatening them with hel and damnation whereupon they cavil with they quarrell against it they wish there were neither God to punish nor scripture to threaten Destruction against them and so by insensible degrees they are brought to think and say in their heart there is no God as the foole did Psal. 14. so true is that of the poet quod nimis miseri volunt hoc facile crâ—dunt the thoughâ—â— and imaginations of wretched men are governed by their desires they hate the light because their deeds are evil though their understandings are convinced by unansweareable arguments and reasons of the truth of these great principles yet they will not believe them such is the perverseness of their will that it either blinds their mind or else draws them against self Conviction to believe a Lye and to hold the conclusion against the most evident proofes and premises Dub. I am perswaded that you have given very good reasons why so many are Atheists and infidels and that the cheifest of them are irreligious and prophane livers that practical Atheisme is the greatest cause of that which iâ— dogmaticall or Atheism in opinion 'T was the foole that said in his heart there waâ— no God first he was a foole i. e. a sinner and very wicked as he is discribed in that psalm and thence he proceeded Atheist a foole in practise and then a fool in judgment for t is most certain that a corrupt and wicked life is the true parent of ungodly and vile opinions froâ— which by Gods blessing upon your good endeavoures I am now delivered and am fully perswaded that God is and that he is a rewarder of all those that diligently seeke him that the holy scripture is undoubtedly the word of God and consequently that the Christian Religion is the onely true religion but observing that of those who profess this Religion there are severall parties and t is not unknown to you that heretofore I have adhaered to the Church of Rome I would willingly learn from you which party they of Rome or we of England be most Orthodox and Catholick Firm Your demand is rationall I shall most willingly Gratifie you in itâ— oâ—ely you must give me leave to propose these Two questions to you and let me receive your answâ—r unto them at our next meeting 1. What Inducements you had to turne to the Church of Rome 2. What Reasons you had to leave it Dub. You must give me leave also to recollect my selfe that I may be â—he better able to give in my answer to your Quaeries DIALOGVE III Against POPERY Firm. I Hope you have well considered of the questions which I lately proposed unto you Dub. To the first I returne this answer My reasons that induced me to adhere to the Church of Rome were these 1. The Antiquity of that Church which has continued ever since the Apostles time when by the testimony of St. Paul her faith was spoken of throughout the world Rom. 1.8 2. The universality of it no Church has spread it self so farr and nere upon the face of the earth as that of Rome 3. Her consent in Doctrine with the primitive Church 4. The unity of it under one infallible head which cannot err in poynt of faith or manners 5 The sanctity of it's Doctrine that 't is free from errour in matters of â—aith free from all immorality and improbity in point of manners 6. The sanctity of life in the authors and first-fathers of the Roman Religion these were the chief motives that caused me to adhere to the Church of Rome Firm. Indeed these are six of those 15 notes which Bellaâ—mine Lib. 4. de not Eccle. and others of his perswasion appropriate to that Church but had you not some other inducements As first a vitious life and the cheap and easy pardon of your Sins upon confession of them to a priest his absolution and injunction of a pitifull pennance 2dly were you not under some discontent for your present low Condition or 3dly were you not ambitious of preferment deeming popery to be a ready way to it or 4thly were you not tickled with the Cunning extolling of your excellent parts by some subtile Jesuite lamenting your sad Condition that a person oâ— so rare endowments should be so miserably mistaken in the great concern of your Soule perswading you that out of the Church there is no hope of salvation and that you being no member of the Church of Rome were past all peradventure out of the Church and unlesse you returned to that Church there could be no hope of your salvation or lastly before you set up for the Church of Rome were you serious and conscientiouâ— in any Religion for 't is very easy for one that is of no Religion that makes no consciencâ— of his waies being allured with the joyeâ— of heaven and affrighted with the terrours of Hell to pitch upon any Religion that confidently promises those and as confidently a freedome from these and we know that Priests and Jesuites want neither art nor impudence to perswaâ—e silly wretches that hopes of Heaven and deliverance from Hell are only to be found in their Church Dub. Truely Sir I am verily perswaded that many who have left your Church and gone over to that of Rome have stumbled at such straws but you have known me long to be a man of no vitious life no male Content not ambitious of honour or preferment not apt to be paffed up with a proud conceit of mine own parts not cold or carelesse in point of Religion but the chiefe reasons that moved me to goe over to the Church of Rome were those before named which made me believe that Church to be the only true Catholick Church out of which there could be no hope of salvation to these I beg your answer Firm. And you shall have it 1. The doctrine of the present Church of Rome which alone could denominate her ancient Catholick and Apostolicall is in severall weighty points quite contrary to holy scripture neither hath it the generall consent of the fathers and Doctors of the Catholick Church the prâ—sent Church of Rome is no more like to what it once was in the purest primitive times than an old decrepit man full of diseases Gout Stone Palsy Dropsy Scurvey Blindnesse Deafnesse Wrinkles and a multitude of
but leaving them to their own simple fancyes Enthusiasms let us proceed to the Presbyterians to which party I first adhered when I forsook the Church of England and and of all dissenters from thâ—t Church in my opinion they have the greatest shew of reason for their separation Firm. In my judgment they have less reason to separate then any other because they agree with us in Doctrinals and are divided from us because of some Ceremonies which are confessedly things indifferent and for some modes of Government viz. the Episcopal and Presbyterian of which tho the former be the best and most antient yet learned and most moderate men of both parties do acknowledg that neither of these Forms of Government are so essential to the being of a Church but that it may subsist and be a true Church under either of them potius ad bene esse quam simpliciter ad esse but more of this hereafter But before we begin our discourse about Presbyterie let us speak a few things concerning Independency for I have heard that you were somtimes of that perswasion Dub. True I was once an Independent or Congregational man buâ— seeing all Sectaries are in respect of Church fellowship Independeâ—ts and that these men for the most part have the same objections against the Church of England as the Independents make use of I thought it superfluous to trouble you with any particular discourse â—oncerning them Firm. There are Three things belonging to Independency which we have not discoursed upon as yet neither will they properly fall under debate in our intended Dialogue about Presbyterie if you please we will take a breif survey of them Dub. I willingly embrace this motion DIALOGUE VI Against Independency Firm. THe first thing that I except against in the Independency is the goverment practised in their particular Congregations without any jurisdiction one over another so that every of their Assemblies is absolute within it self without depending upon any Classical Diocesian Provincial National Church or general Counsel whence they have the name of Independents Dub. Is it true that they will noâ— admit oâ— any Superior power over their respective Congregâ—tions nor appeal in case of divisions among themselves unjust and injurious sentences given in their partial Judicatories Firm. They admit of no appeals or no coercive poâ—er over them in any Consistories Classis or Counsel One Congregational â—hurch may advise exhort or admonish another as brethren or equals but not punish or correct as Judges oâ— Superiors What do you say to this new knack of Church Government Dub. I think it to be Anarchical and confused the Natural Parent of all Schisms and Hereses I do not noâ— so much wonder how England of late years since this headless faction prevaild amongst us became a second Amsterdam What error what heresy so gross so damnable what injustice what oppression never so greivous which might not go unpunisht in such assemblys from which there lies no appeal how must they be broken into infinite fractions especially where the fear of a Common enemy does not unite and peice them together Firm. You rightly apprehend for all these dangers and inconveniences are the necessary consequents of Independent Congregations where any Popish Wolf in Sheeps Cloathing has a fair opportunity to sow the seeds of Anabaptism Quaquerism Socianism or any poysonous Heresy whatsoever to spread the principles of Sedetion and treason as has been of late to much practised in this Nation I wish such Tares be not still scattered in our separating Conventicles to this very day 'T was the observation of Sir Rob. Cotton above three-score yeaâ—s since that Priests and Jesuits did put on the habits of Captains Merchants c. that that they might deceive poor ignorant people under that disguise opera Posthu Pag. 148. Dub. You have said enough against this headless Church Goverment and the sad consequences of it I pray you proceed to the second thing you promised to debate concerning Independency Firm. The second error does concern tiths which generaly the Independents with other sectarys would perswade the world are a great oppression upon the people meerly Levitical and not due or lawfull under the Gospel Dub. I desire to hear from you what may be replyed to these cavils for I believe they are no better Firm. The paying of Tiths is no oppression upon the people no injury to them at all for if no free-holder Farmer or Tenant whatsoever ha's any legal or equitable right â—r title to the tenth part by purchase donation inheritance lease or by any other imaginable conveiance then the paying of Tiths can be no injury at all but the free holder Farmer or Purchaser ha's no legal right to the tenth part no more then the Minister has to the other nine because for many hundred years it has been invested in the Church by as good laws as any layman has right or title to the free hold Farm or lease which he has Purchased or pays rent for so that the tenth part cannot discend to any mâ—n by inheritance gift or puchase neither does any Tenant pay one Penny of rent to his Land lord for that part of the increase of Fruits Grain Grass or any other Commodity whatsoever Dub. Truly Sir I have heard as much and if Tithes were taken from the Church no question Landlords would raise their Rents and Fines and Purchasers would quickly find the price of land rais'd proportionably to a tenth part Firm. This is so plain that nothing but gross ignorance Envy and Malice against the Clergy can entertain the least doubt of it Dub. Sir you put me in mind of one thing which I have often thought upon and much wonderd at that generally those that go under the nâ—me of Protestants in your Church have little respect for their Ministers whereas Papists and Presbyterians shew great respect to theirs Firm. You need not wonder at it the true reason of this contempt is for want of Zeale to that Religion which thâ—y profess whereâ—s Papists and Presbyterians are Zealous in theirs But your meer formal Protestants of which number there are too many is a formal nothing one that is so far from the power of Godliness that he has not the naked formality of it Now there cannot be a greater sign of an irreligious Atheist then contempt of the Clergy for where they are despised God cannot be honoured nor Religion had in esteem if the Gentleman that has assigned reasons for the Contempt of the Clergy had thought on this t' would have been worth all the reasons in his whole Book but it may be he was so much a stranger to his own heart that he thought not of it Dub. But are not many Ministers themselves a chief cause that they are so contemned Firm. I was about to tell you so 't is much to be be wailed that too many in holy orders are through ignorance negligence in the duties of their calling loosness in
Imprimatur RAD. BATHVRST Vice-Can Oxon. FIRMIANUS and DVBITANTIVS OR Certain DIALOGUES Concerning Atheism Infidelity Popery and other Heresies and Schisme's that trouble the peace of the Church and are destructive of Primitive Piety VVritten in a plain and easie method for the satisfaction of doubting Christians By THO. GOOD D.D. Master of Baliol Colledge in Oxon. Take heed Brethren least there be in any of you an evil heart of unbeleif in departing from the living God Heb. 3.12 OXFORD Printed by L. LICHFIELD Printer to the University for THO. HANCOX Book-seller in Hereford 1674. To the Reader COnsidering the many Learned and judicious Tracts that are extant against Atheism Infidelity Popery with other Heresies Sects Schisms destructive of the Antient Catholick Religion and of that Peace and Vnity Love and Charity which is the badge and mark of Christs sheep I thought it superfluous to add my poor Scrible after such fair Copy's but observing the length and learning of those elaborate Tractat's which many men have neither money to buy leasure to read nor judgment to understand I conceived that these few short Discourses not fitted nor indeed intended for the perusal of the learned might nevertheless be gratum opus agricolis not altogether unprofitable for men of ordinary Capacityes to which purpose I have used such means and methods That I might be the better understood by these men I have endeavoured that the matter of these discourses for the most part might be plain and familiar the phrase and expressions intelligible I have made use of two feigned names Firmianus and Dubitantius to personate the sound Believer and the doubting Sceptick Christian who are brought upon the Stage disputing by way of Dialogue which is most suiteable to men of short discourse and most apt to comply with their apprehension I hope the more learned Reader if any such shall give themselves the trouble to peruse this little Manuel will not Censure the plainness of it but rather commend the Charity of the Author toward the wâ—ll meaning Christian who amongst those many Treatises that have been written can meet with very few that are calculated for his Meridian and consequently is apt to be blown about with every wind of doctrine by the slight of men and cunning craftines whereby they lye in wait to deceive and who these gamesters are he that has but half an eye may see and how many a poor soul has in these times of confusion been blown about from one erroneous opinion to another until he has turned Seeker Scheptick and at last down right Atheist there is no man so great a stranger in our Hierusalem that can be ignorant Wherefore if these short and familiar discourses may have the happiness to prevent the falling of any unsetled wavering soul or to restore any that has fallen to a sound mind 't will be my great satisfaction and rejoying to be able to apply to my self that of St. James cap. 5.19 Brethren if any of you do err from the truth and one convert him let him know that he that converts a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death and shall cover a multitude of sins Now the God of truth and peace grant that these poor and weak endeavours may work that good effect upon the erring seduced sinner and that the multitude of my sins may be covered with the long white robe of my blessed Saviours righteousness for his holy name sake Amen Thine in the truth that is iâ— Christ Jesus THO. GOOD DIALOGUE I. Against ATHEISME Firm. GOod morrow to my old Friend Dubitantius Dub. A good day to you Firmianus Firm. Methinks I read some discontent in your face what may be the cause of it Dub. There is a great cause I have been so long distracted betwixt diversity of Opinions in point of Religion that I am now doubting whether there be any Religion at all or any Supream invisible Deity to be worshipped Firm. This is the common result of vain Janglings that they usually end in Atheism and Infidelity But pray tell me is it possible that there should be such fierce disputes and bitter contentions about a very nothing Certainly such sharp disputes about the various manners of Gods worship do strongly argue that Religion is a thing of highest concern or that all the wisest men that ever were in the world are Fooles and madmen to oppose hate malign persecute one another even unto death for a groundless fancy a very nothing Dub. Your discourse is very Rational for I suppose wise men would never wrangle about a meer Romance yet I confess I have had strange irrational thoughts against the very Being of God and the truth of any Religion Firm. You justly term such thoughts irrational Did not I once tell you that when you had forsâ—ken your Mother the Church of England the most Apostolical Catholick in the whole world in short time you would become a Libertine an Atheist any thing or nothing Dub. Do you think that all Nonconformists and Separatists from your Church are Libertines and Atheists Firm. I am not so uncharitable but I must tell you that causeless separation is a very greiveous sin and punished many times with the seveâ—est judgments such as are Spiritual blindness Hardness of heart and a Reprobate mind Dub. I fear those judgments have overtaken me for since I became a Separatist from your Church I have been very cold at my Devotion made little conscience of publick or secret Praier of Obedience to those powers which God has ordained of Love Charity Honesty and Upright dealing towards my neighbours I have lived an Atheist in practise so long that I am now ready to be an Atheist in Opinion and to say with the foole in the 14. Psal. There is no God I have so long sâ—ept out of one opinion into another that at length I am become a very Sceptick in Religion doubting of all and fixing upon none Firm. Truly Sir you made good your name by your practise which renders you a right Dubitantius But pray tell me by what degrees and methods you have stept out of our Church into the borders of Atheism that I may with the more facility bring you back the same way by which you have unhappily gone out from us into the bosome of your dear Mother Dub. Your Demand is reasonable 'T is not unknown to you that I was once a true son of the Church of England you shall hereafter know for what reasons I left her Communion and became a Presbyterian and to be breif I stay'd not long in that opinion but presently I proceeded Independent then Anabaptist then Quaker then Papist then Antiscripturist then what you now find me almost an Atheist Firm. I hope you are not fixed in that wretched Opinion as resolvedly to deny him a being that gave you yours Dub. Sir I am not but have many doubts whether there be and as many thoughts that there is not
swore by a good Man by which 't is evident how the grosse superstition of the Church of Rome hath crooked silly Souls and that all such images are teachers of Lies very vanities as the Scripture shews and reason demonstrates For to say nothing of the Blasphemous images of God the Father and the holy Trinity doth not the image of any Saint whom these pseudo-Catholicks worship lie to their imaginations representing that which is not for nothing but the Soules and Spirits of those Saints do now remain so that whilest they picture and worship them in bodily shapes which pictures represent what is not they worship they know not what praying onely to the Soules of Saints yet phansying them in bodily shapes as when they lived here on earth how doth it concern all Serious Christians to beware of the Religious worship of any creature of Gods or mans makeing of Angell Saint or Image which is so expressly forbidden in the word of God And surely if we might worship the picture of a man which is mans Creature 't were much more rational to worship a true man yea the Son Moon and Starrs and all thâ— host of heaven they being all of them the Creatures of Almighty God Firm. You rightly conclude were not a judiciall blindness upon the eyes of our adversaries they could not be Guilty of so dangerous a suspition Dub. I shall trouble you but with one reason more for my forsakeing the Church of Rome which was breifely their praiers in an unknown tongue a practise manifestly contrary to plain Scripture and the antient Doctors of the Church a most unreasonable service opposite to that which we are to perform to Almightâ— God 'T is so bafled by St. Paul that all the learned â—en of the Roman party have nothing of sence or reason to answer and as for antiquity 't was not so much as thought upon in the first ages in the Church the Liturgies then every where were in the known and vulgar tongue otherwise how should the unlearned say Amen The practise of the Church of Rome is in this as in divers other of their fopperyes a very mistery of iniquity I could heartily wish that for the undeceiveing of ignorant Papists their Missales Pontifical's Breviaryes Lady Psaltres c. were translated into the English and other vulgar tongues that such poore deluded soules might see to what absurd prayers they say Amen to what childish ridiculous Ceremonies they â—ubmit I might here add the vain Reptitions of so many Ave-Maria's Pater-noster's upon their beads their saying of them at certain houres as a Pensum or taske or a Pennance to make a Compensation for their sins rather then as a willing serious duty from the heart and soule which is not Religious praying but a Childish saying of prayers a vain heathenish babling after the manner of an old wises charm resting in the work done as if the bare saying of prayers without any intention of the mind were the only end of praying or the effectuall â—ervenâ— prayer of a Righteous man Iam. 5.16 I might also add their cheating Purgatory their purchasing of pardons and indulgences for sins past and for many hundred yeares to come by sums of money sett downe in the Tax booke of their Chancery their Pilgrimages and bodily Severityes to expiate for the sins of their soules their allowing of Brothell houses to Gratiâ—ye the unmarried Clergy and others in their unclean Lusts for which the Pope receives a luâ—ty Pension But to deale truely with you no one thing wrought a greater dislike of Popery in me then their barbarous bloody Cruelâ—y towards those that they please to call Haereticks their savage inquisition their Parisian Irish and other massacres their marian Butcherings their intended matchless powder treason their poysoning and stabing of kings their Justifieing of Rebellion and all manner of wickedness by their right intention and Doctrine of probability as is to be seen in the first and second part of the mistery of Jesuitisme in the Jesuites Morralls can such Villany such Cruelty and Christianity stand together did Christ and his Apostles propagate the Gospel with such Carnall weapons how severely does our Saviour rebuke his angry disciples when they would have called for fire from heaven to destroy the uncivill Schismatical Samaritans yâ—e know not what spirit yee are of for the son of man is not come to dâ—stroy mens lives but to save them Luk. 9.55 O that Christs pretending Vicar had the spirit of the meeke and holy Jesus These Sir were the reasons which moved me to forsake the Communion of the Church of Rome for upon this account I could not believe her to be the Catholick Church or any sound part of it but a very Schismatical Haeretical one that had departed exceeding much from Primitive Christianity from the faith that was once delivered to the Sainâ—s Firm. You have given very sufficient reasons for your departure from that unsound Church which may satisfie any serious considering Christian and you have saved me the trouble of any further addition to them I am now fully perswaded that you are neither Atheist Infidel or Papist pray you let me know what is your present perswasion and what Church you most â—pprove Dub. Truely Sir there are so many sects amongst the Protestants that I am in no small doubt with which of them to hold Commuion but my inclination leads me chiefly to returne to my old Mother the Church of England from which most unhappily as I am now convinced I heretofore separated however for the removâ—l of some scruples which yet remain with me â— earnestly desire you to give your selfe the trouble of a short discourse concerning the severall sects now in England Firm. I shall most â—readily gratifie you In this your very reasonable request nothing doubting but that I shall by Gods Gratious assiâ—tance remove all your scruples and fix you a true son of that Church which is the most Catholick Apostolical Church now exstant in all the world which those that do acknowledge the holy Scriptâ—re to be the infallible word of God the perfect Rule of all the substantialls of Christianity both for faith and manners and have some competent knowledge in the records of antiquity the want of which is one great cause of hâ—resy and schism as to be able to trace Christian Religion through the severall ages of the Church from the Apostles down to these presenâ— times I say those that do acknowledge these things cannot doubt of Dub. You much confirm me in what I have often heard from grave and learned men that one great cause of errours in Religion is ignorance in the writings of the ancient Doctors of the Church Councels and Ecclesiasticall histories this is not every mans work that have neither books to read nor brains to understand them and that tâ—e surest way to be an Orthodox Christian is by studying descendendo beginning with the records of the first century then
perswaded that Shisms and Heresies are the necessary consequents of mens invading the Ministry without regular Ordination But for my better satisfaction I pray you let me understand the reasons that make against this Independent practise Firm. My Reasons are these drawn First from plain Scripture as Ierem. 14.14 and 23.21 where there is a complaint against those Prophets That Prophesied lyes in Gods name and he sent them not And again the same Prophet I have not sent these Prophets and yet they ran I have not spoken unto them and yet they Prophesied therefore they shall not profit these people at all Neither was this Sending and Calling a necessary requisite only under the Law but also in the time of the Gospel The first that were ever called and sent to preach the glad tidings of the kingdom of Heaven were the Apostles who were first Disciples to the best of Masters before they were sent out to Preach First Qualified foâ— the work and then Sent. So upon the treason and death of Iudas Matthias was made an Apostle in his place but by Election and Ordination Acts 1. Heb. 5. No man must take this honoâ— upon him but he that is called of God either immediately or by the Governors of the Church and hereupon it was that St. Paul left Timothy at Ephesus and Titus at Creete to Ordain Elders in every Citty instructing them how the Priests and Deacons ought to be qualified 'T is well worth our observation how the Apostle makes the salvation of men to depend ordinarily upon the Preaching of Sent and Called Ministers Rom. 10. Whosoever calleth upon thâ— name of the Lord he shall be saved but such Calling presupposeth Believing Hearing Preaching Sending how shall they Preach except they be sent Dub. 'T is evident by the Scriptures both of the Old and New Testament That no man ought to take upon him the Office of a Minister before he has a lawful Call from the Church or can by working Miracles make it appear that he is immediately called from God which is not now to be expected Firm. And 't is as evident from the practise of the Church from the time of the Apostles even to this present age for he that shall peruse her Records shall find that whosoever did presume to take upon himself the office of publick Preaching or Administation of the Sacraments without an extraordinary Call arrested by Miracles or an ordinary one from the Governors of the Church was ever accounted a Theif and a Robber no true Shephard that entred in at the Church door but crept in or climb'd up some other way And hereupon Tertullian complains That in their Heretical Conventicles their Women were bold pratlers they did preach dispute baptize meer Laicks did usurp the Priests office by which means instead of converting Heathens they did pervert Christians St. Hierom also in an Epistle to Paulinus complains That every one did presume to interpret holy Scripture prating old women doting old men Husbandmen Masons Iacks of all trades even as it has been in this divided Nation Trades-men Shoemakers â—oblers Glovers Taylors have skip'd from the Shop to the Pulpit and have left stitching of graments to make a rent in the Church Dub. There is no ingenuous man that is acquainted with the Tenents of Anabaptists and Quakers that will deny that our Sectaries have sharpned their Tools which they have used against us at the Forges of these Philistins Have you any thing else to object aginst these Schismatick practices Firm. Yes The prudential order which is used in all other callings the ablest Lawer Gentleman Soldier muâ—â— not execute the office of a Judge Justice of Peace Commander in war without a Commission a Student in Physick cannot practise without a Linence no man can set up his Trade in a well Governd Corporation untill he has serv'd out his Appâ—entiship and is made a Freeman Such excellent order is observd in Civil affâ—irs but in the great concerns of the Church there should bâ— nothing but confusion if these men might be sufferd to act according to their irrational and extravagant Phansies Dub. 'T is most apparent that their actions are against Scripture the practise of the Cartholick Church and the dictates of reason which no Christian no Sober man will contradict Therefore let us leave this headless Faction and discourse about Presbytery which has the most plausible reasons for its Nonconformity to our Church of any other that do seperate from us DIALOGVE VII Against Presbytery Firm. THe first step you made out of our Church as I have heard was unto Presbyterie I desire to know the reasons why you left our Communion and made choice of theirs Dub. I confess the first step I made out of the Church of England was into the Tents of Presbyterie thence to the Independents and so to the Anabaptists and at last I became little better then an Atheist as I before have declared Thus unhâ—ppy man as I was being out of the true Church I was like Noah's Dove out of the Ark fluttering over the Floods of Eâ—rors and boiâ—terous waves of Shismâ— Factions and Heresies finding no firm land for the sole of my foot to rest upon Firm. This was not your case alone but of many â—n unâ—table soul thâ—t in those laâ—e times of Rebellion confusion Eph. 4. has been blown about with every wind of doctriâ—e by the sleight of men Jesuits Priest and Socintans and their cunning craftinesâ— whereby they havâ— lain in wait to deceive An â—â—ence it was thâ—t the Prophet David's curse fell heâ—vy upon them for they have fallen from one wickedness to another from one wicked opinion to a sâ—â—ond a third c. till at length they have turned Seekers Scepticks Atheists and Scoffers at all Religion Dub. This was once my condition but praised be the Lord who has brought my foot out of the snare I have by his blessing shaked off all those wild and groundless fancies and am more then half perswaded that the Church of England is one of the moâ—t Orthodox Apostolical Churches under the cope of Heaven However for my better confirmation let me hear your answers to those exceptions which the Presbyterians have urged against her goverment by Arch-Bishops Bishops Deans and Chapters her Lyturgie her set Forms of Prayer her Ceremonies her receiving persons of scandalous lives and grosly ignorant in the principles of Religion to the holy Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ. These were the great scandals at which I somtimes stumbled and fell from the Communion of the Church into the Congregation of our Classical Brethren Firm. I shall mosâ— willingly give in my answer to those exceptions in that order you have ranked them Therefore in the first place let me hear what you can object against our Bishops Dub. I have been told They are Antchristian not heard of in the Primitive times Such Plants as our Heavenly Father hath not planted and therefore to be rooted
is certain that aâ—prophane carless performing of Divine service is a very great sin and a necessary cause of irreligion and practical Atheism one exception I had allmost forgott which concerns Choristers who are said to be for the most part very untoward Children Firm. First This cannot be denyed but the reasons are first negligence in the Musick Masters whose chiefest care it is to teach them to Sing and the end why they Sing namely to set forth the Praises of their Creator neither are they so careful to instruct them how to behave themselves reverently and devoutly at the worship and service of God Secondly Some of them are not set to the Grammer School where upon they squander away a great part of their time in vain sports and idleness which is the Mother of all villany and wickednss Thirdly But the chiefest reason of all is that our Choristers are commonly the Children oâ— mean Parents who for the most part are very ignorant in the great matters of Religion and extreamly negligent in the concerns of their own and their Childrens Souls Now Deans and Chapters are necessitated to make choise of such poor Children because the better sort of people disdain to have their Children brought up in that noble Science of Musick which is their gross ignorance besides their scorn and contempt of this Science they misconceive that if they should send them to the Musick School it would hinder them in their Grammer learning which might easily be prevented by imploying those hours only at Musick which are spent in foolish insignificant sports and pastimes which as I am inform'd is the practise in some places beyond Sea where their youths spend much of the afternoons in Musick and Dancing Training Mathematicks and such like manly and profitable exercises which conduce both to the health of the body and benefit of the understanding Dub. I perceive that those exceptions against Deans and Chapters and Cathedral service are not so substantial as once I conceived them to be If you please we will now proceed to those which I have heard urged with much earnestness against â—et forms of Prayer and in particular against the Liturgie of the Church of England Firm. Most willingly I pray you favour me with the recital of them Dub. 'T would be to much trouble and to little purpose to mention all that I have heard seing many of them are very frivolous and not worthy of a serious answer those that seem to be the most material are First that they are imposed by mans Authority Secondly they stint the Spirit Thirdly they are cold and dead forms our Spirits are not affected and quickned by them as by conceived and extemporary Prayers Firm. First whatsoever is imposed upon us by mans Authority contrary to the word of God is utterly unlawfull but set Forms taken out of â—ods word are not contrary to that word especially when not only the very matter of them is contained in Holy Scripture but the very words and phrase 'T is a strange peice of nonsence that what is in it self lawfull and laudable should cease to be so because 't is commanded by our Superiors True indeed that things in themselves lawfull being in their own nature but indifferent if commanded as necessary and intrinsically holy are upon that account unlawfull and repugnant to Christian liberty but more of this when we shall diâ—course about Ceremonies Secondly That the Spirit is stinted by a set Form and that Reading of Prayers out of a Book cannot be praying by the Spirit To this I reply That if their were any truth in these exceptions how comes it to pass that â—e have so many set Forms of Prayer and thanksgiving in Holy Scripture How do set formâ— of Prayer more stint the Spirit then set Forms of Psalms for Singing Yea does a set Form of Prayer more stint the Spirit then the extemporary conceptions of the Minister limit and stint the Spirit of the Congregation to whom they are upon this account in the nature of set Forms When these queries shall be rationally answered I shall through away all set Forms which have been used by the â—hristian Churches for above 1400 years Besides those of the Presbyterian perswasion allow'd them as lawfull in their conferences with the Bishops anon after his Majesties restauration As to the other part of the other exception that reading of Prayers out of a Book cannot be praying by the Spirit this to those who understand the true meaning of that Phrase is a most frivilous cavill for setting aside the extraordnary gift of prayer to pray in or by the Spirit denotes first the making of our prayers according to the mind of the Spirit exprest in the Scripture as may appear Col. 3.16 Secondly to pray by the Spirit is to pray by that principle of grace wrought in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and enabling us to every good duty as well as to prayer Thirdly to pray by the Spirit is when the Spirit do's stir up our hearts to this Holy duty working in us good desires and motions quickning our faith and fervency whereby our hearts minds spirits go along with out Tongues and Words utterd either in a set Form or by our extemporary expressions which is usually practized by knowing Christians in their Closset devotions Dub. I confess I am not able to shew why set Forms of Prayer should stint the Spirit more then set forms of Singing and I am perswaded that praying by the Spirit signifies no more then the assistance of the holy Spirit quickning and stirring us up to and in Prayer whereby our hearts and spirits are fixed in that holy duty joyning and going along with the Tongue and Voice but truly I find by experience that my Spirit is more stirred up by a Prayer that is new which I never heard before being lively deliver'd then by a common Form read out of a Book Firm. This is the chiefest reason â—hich renders men such admirers of extemporary Prayers and so opposite to set forms their own experience tels them that they are more taken with such Prayers then with common Forms read out of a Book whiâ—h phanciful experience no wise man will plead against reason and judgment it being very deceitful and the issue of a very common corruption and humane infirmity which inclines us to be more taken with what is new then with what we have often heard especially when 't is deliver'd in a lively tone with pleasing actions and gesticulations of the Body and without Book though for substance and soundness what is read be infinitely before it Pray Sir answer me but this one question whether are your affections more stir'd up at the reading of some portion of Scripture by the Minister or at a good Sermon delivered from the Pulpit Dub. I confess I am much more affected my affections are more wrought upon by a good Sermon deliver'd with life and action then at the reading of the best Chapter
in the Bible Firm. I believe you yet you will not say that the best Sermon that ever was made by man is to be preferâ— before a portion of sacred Scripture The explication or application of the word mixt with much of mans conceptions before the pure word it self and esteem the hearing of it read useless and unlawful Dub. God forbid I should Firm. You see by this one instance how fallible your own phantiful experience has been and how it has lead you against Scripture against the general practise of the Church against all sober reason so dangerous a thing it is for men of short discourse that are not masters of reason but are guided to phansies over powred by passions engaged in parties to meddle with controversies which are too high and hard for them Dub. I confesse that 't was no great wonder that so mean a man as I should be mistaken but 't is very strange that so many grave and learned men as were in the late Assembly should be so much against the Common Prayer Book of the Church of England which I have heard learned men affirme to be the best Liturgie in the world Firm. 'T was very strange that so many learned men should be overborn by some leading men that had more zeal than judgmâ—nt and happily more of interest and designe then of learning and piety but as there have been Parliament-drivers so there have been Assembly-drivers and Convocation-drivers before you or I were born and will be after we are in our graves And I am confident thaâ— disgâ—ised Priests and Jesuits have had more then one finger in animating the Presbiterians against the Church of England as well as to my knowledge they have had in somenting Anabaptisme and Quaquerisme soâ— 't is their Maxime divide impera divide the Hereticks and wâ—e shall Reign I have more charity then to believe that the Assembly the greatest part of them were of opinion that set Forms of Prayer were either useless or unlawful though they cannot be excused from too much compliance I fear against their own judgments They could not be ignorant that the vote against the Book of Common-Prayer was contrary to the sentiments of the most learned men in all the Reformed Churches beyond Sea of very sober men in this Nation known heretofore by the name of Puritans the most discreet and moderate of that Party were never against set forms of the Reverend Bishops of the Church of England many of which sacred order have beeâ— as famous in their generation both for learning and piety as former ages ever knew yea since His Majesties happy Restauration the chiefest of the Presbiterian perswasion have acknowledged set forms of Prayer in publick to be lawful they plainly confess in their Conference with the Bishops they are not against them but every daies experience will make it evident they must be for them as well as not against them unlesâ— the late Assembly could have as easily voted and made all Ministers of the Church of England Discreet Judicious Orthodox and of a ready Elocution as they did rashly and inconsiderately vote down the Liturgie Besides the Congregation especially the weaker sort those tâ—at are ignorant and cannot read may better joyn in prayer when the Forms of iâ— are known and common then they can in strange â—nd extemporary expressions with which they are â—ltogether unacqainted which being the practise in the late tiâ—es of confusion has taught the people only to hear prayers as if they were so many Sermons wherein they were not at all concerned to joyn with their hearts and tongues and to say Amen or as if the ear were the only member to be imployed in that holy duty Again Set and prescribed Forms consisting of Scriptural phrases and expressions unaffected and â—â—tted to the understanding of the meanest câ—pacitie are soonest received into the heart and aptest to excite and carry along with them judicious and steady â—ffections as King Charles the Firâ—â— haâ— observed in his most excellent Book Hereunto may be added That out of well composed Forms the weaker Christians may be furnished with a stock of wholesome expressions composed by the advice joynt sistance of the cheif Pastors and Ministers of thâ— Church for their help and direction in their private Devotions which iâ— imposible to bâ— done by the suddain various uncertain expressions of divers particular Ministers Besides Set Forms are necessary for uniformity in the publick worship and upon this account learned and sober men have wished there were but one publick Liturgie in all Christian Churches in the world which if it were possible would be a great means of peace and unity amongst Christians by preventing the spreading of Schisms and Heresies that may be as well prayed up as preached up as also undecent unscriptural expressions tautologies vain-repetitions phantastical affected words and phrases utterly abhorrent from the sobriety and gravity of Divine Oratory which is quite another thing from that of the Stage or Desk Lastly Should we deal with an understanding Recusant endeavouring to perswade him to forsake his superstitious worship and to joyn himself to our Assemblies how could we assure him if we have no publick established Liturgie that our way and manner of worship is and shall continue Scripture-proof sound and innocent without errours and indecencies Do we think that any wise man would leave his Popish blind way of worship to be guided by our dark Lanthorn not being rationaly assured after what way we do worship the God of our Fathers which we cannot satisfie him in if we have no set Liturgie Dub. I very much approve of your reasons for Publick Set Forms of Prayer as also of your â—nswer to that argument drawn from Experience which appears so great and mighty to some mens vain imaginations but is indeed very weak and fallacious Firm. You must give me leave to adde Two things more in answer to that argument drawn from Experience and then we will discourse of those exceptions against our Common-Player in particular 1. I will oppose experience to experience those that reproâ—ch our Common-prayer for a cold and dry Service extolling extemporary conceptions so much beyond it let these men make this easie experiment to themselves Let them take some of thâ— best of extemporary prayers verbatim which your Short-hand-writers can exactly do let these prayers be read or repeated memoriter with all the advantages of pleasing tones bodily gesticulations lively pronunciations and assure your self they will at length appear to be as dull dry and cold as any part of our Liturgie 2. I would have you seriously consider what the most judiceous Hooker sayes concerning Sermons and Reading of Scripture why the former are so highly esteem'd and the other so much slighted the truth is they please more then Lessons and Chapters by reason of those outward advantages which a Sermon well delivered has above thâ— Scripture barely read besides the singular attention and affection which
men are apt to express toward the one and their cold disposition toward the other partly because 't is usual to let those things pass carelesly by our ears which we have often heard before or know we may haer again when ever we please and partly for that Sermons are new and fresh and if they slip by us for the present what excellencies soever they contain is lost which creats the grater atteâ—â—ion which causes the greater affections so far that worthy man This certainly is one great reason why set Forms of Prayer are so much undervalued in respect of extemporary and conceiv'd effusions Dub. I am abundantly satisfied that set Forms of Prayer are not only lawfull but very usefull in the Publike Service of the Church I shall now by your good leave descend to those exceptions which are made more particularly against the Liturgie of the Church of England First that 't is taken out of the Masse Book Secondly that it contains many shreds of Prayer which are short and customary wishes rather then serious and devout Prayers Thirdly that it appoints divers Apocryphal Chapters to be publikly read which contain things incredible and ridiculous As for those exceptions which are made against some particular passages in the body of the Liturgy they are so frivolous that they are not worth the trouble of a serious confutation he that pleases may see them sufficiently baffled by Mr Hooker Mr Ball himself a Nonconformist in his tryal of the grounds of Seperation with many others Firm. Your First excepâ—ion is the issue of Spite and Ignorance what though it contains many things that are in the Masse Book as the Creeds the Teâ— Commandments the Lords-Prayer and divers Collects Shall a true man refuse to take his goods and make the best he can of them because he finds them in a Theifs house Or shall the husbandman refuse pure wheat because 't was once mingl'd with chaff and tares albeit 't is now winnoâ—ed and sâ—fted Or shall we refuse Pauls Epistles because there are in them certain savory passages taken out of the writings of Idolatrous Heathens The Church of Rome was once a glorious Church true 't is it s now sadly corrupted yet as corrupt as 't is all is not chaff which that Church retains there remainâ— in her some good wheat which was in her before her novel superstitions were in their Swadling cloaths this wheat wee retain the châ—ff we hâ—ve blown away with a Fan of an orderly Reformation you see what a malicious cavil this is that our Common-Prayer is taken out of the Mâ—ss malice in some and ignorance in others have been the true parents of this groundless calumny 2. As to your Second exception that our Liturgie contains many short cuts and shreads of prayer pray you what do you think of the Publicans Prayer God be mercifull to me a sinner is any prayer in our Liturgie more short then that which our Saviour so well aproved Short ejacuculations concise forms Holy breathings of the Spirit are very frequent in the Scripture and past all peradventure very acceptable to Almighty God those that cavil at the shortness of our prayers and collects let them justify the length of theirs if they can from any one prayer in Scripture or Fathers that is a quater of an hower long Let any rational man who is acquainted with the nature of Prayer and humane infirmities seriously consider â—hether or no our Church has not carried her self very prudently both in the Method Phrase Form and ordering of her Service Are not all her holy Offices the matter and mostly the very words and choiâ—eâ—t portions of holy Scriptures what an unworthy calumny is it to tell the world our Common-Prayer is taken out of the Masse Could any thing be utter'd more fals and invidious those excellent Prayers She uses how are they â—itted to our infirmities mixed with Psalms Hymns and choise portions of Scripture is not this order and method more sutable to the weak capacities and unsteady attentions of the greatest part of the Congregation then a long extemporary Prayer for matter many times Heretical Schismatical Irreverent strangly bold unbeseeming a poor sinful Worme to offer up to the High and Dreadful Majesty of our Great and Good God Dub. I know by my own experience thâ—t long extemporary Prayers are very apt to dull â—nd deâ—den our attentions and I cannot deny but that sometimes I have been very much scandalized both at the matter as also at the un-Scriptural â—hantastical Affected expressions used in such Prayers which is not to be seen in the Common-Prayer Book whose phrase and words are very gravâ— and decent and being taken out of the word of â—od are most fit to be offer'd up to the Almighty God when we speak unto him in Prayer I am fully satisfied with the excellent Method Matter grave Oratory of the English Liturgie being 't is so consonant to and coresponding with the Holy Scripture So that I stand amaz'd at the impudence of those that first gave out that 't was borrowed from the Mass Book and at the dull ignorance of those that will believe so notoâ—ious a Lye The Book I acknowledge to be rarely compos'd and not onely useful in our publick Worship but also a very profitable directory for our Family private devotions Now to the last objection Were it not better that some Apochryphal Chapters were left out of the calender and Canonical Lessons set in their place Firm. Many learned men have indeed thought so and have wished for a change in this particular Mr Hooker has these words Those Ecclesiastical Books for so they were cald in auntient times not Apocryphal under which title were contain'd such Books which the Church allowed not at all to be read in publick I say those Ecclesiastical Books which in case my self did think as some do that 't were more safe and better that they were not to be read at all publikly nevertheless as in other things of like nature so in this I should be loath to oppose my private judgment against the force of their Reverend Authority considering the excellency of some things in all and of all things in certain of those Ecclesiastical Books which we publikly read and therefore I have thought it better to let them stand as a list or a marginal border unto the Old Testament and to grant at the least unto some of them publike audience in the house of God Dub. I do fully acquiess in the pious prudent and peaceable determination of this worthy man and so from the exceptions that are made against the liturgy I desire your discourse may proceed to those which are made against the Ceremonies of the Church 't is superfluous to name them all But only those which are most spoken against the Surplice the Ring in Marriage Bowing at the name of Jesus Kneeling at the Sacrament and especially the Cross in Baptisme which are said to be Popish and superstitions
tender consciences and the occasions of many shâ—rp contentions amongst Christians agreeing in the substantials of Religion and seing that Conformists themselves confess them not to be in their own nature necessary but only expedient for order and decency were it not better they were laid aside then continued is they are the perpetual causes of discord and dissention amongst us Firm. And are order decency and uniformity without which there wiâ—l be neither â—ove Peace or Unity suâ—h inconsiderable nothings that a few innocent Ceâ—emonies must be utterly abollished to gratifie the dogmatizing humors of those men who esteem things in themselves indifferent to be sinful and unlawful which is sâ—â—t Superstition 'T is indeed much to be lamented that we should quarrel about Mint and Cummin to the prejudice of more weighty and material duties and the scandal of our Religion But by reason of our innâ—te and acquited corruptions 't is necessary that offences should come yet wo be unto that man by whom they come I know weakness and renderness of conscience is much pretended and we ought to take heed how we offend any of Christs little ones but how can these men be reckon'd in the number of weak or little ones who seem to themselves so great so strong and able in the things of Religion and for their tendernesse of conscienâ—e we appeal to their bloody civil Warrs 't is well known by whom and how they were began and carryâ—d on till at length they came up to the death of the King tho I believe very much against the intentions and designs of the most grave and sober men of that Party Dub. But really Sir were it not more beseeming Christian prudence so far to condescend to our dissenting Brethren who agree with us in the Doctrine of our Church in taking away at least some of those Ceremonies which are more liable to exception then to comply with the Superstitious Papists in the use of them Firm. I confess some moderate men have thought so especially since we are frustrated of of one main end for which our first reformers retained them which was to draw over the Papists into the Communion of our Church which they did adhere unto for the Ten first years of Queen Elizabeth until they were interdicted by the Popes bull But seeing we are deprived of all hopes of that much desired issue and that by the cunning of Priests and Jesuits stirring up and animating the Conformists and Non-conformists against each other about these Ceremonies Our differences amongst our selves do daily increase and multiply some wise and peaceable men have desired that the use of certain of those Ceremonies might be forborn at least for a time which not withstanding they are still continued These peaceable men abhor the great sin of Separation do continue their conformity to the rites of our Church daily begging at the throne of Grace that the God of truth and peace would for his mercy â—ake so assist those powers which he has ordained that they may be instrumental for the establishing of truth and peace amongst us Dub. I like well of the temper of these men and wish that their moderation were not only known unto but practised by all men for certainly if the Spirit of love peace and meekness did rule more in our peevish and froward hearts we should enjoy a greater measure of Peace Love and Christian Charity then these angry times have hither to been happy with I return you my hearty thanks for that satisâ—action which you have given me in those scruples which have much troubled me about the Goverment Liturgie and Ceremonies of the Church of England there is yet one thing behind at which I have somwhat been scandalliz'd 't is this Your Church does receive persons who are notoriously proâ—hâ—ne in their lives and grossly ignorant in the principls of Religion to the Holy Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ besides she tollerates at least Ministers that are scandalous in their conveâ—sâ—tion frequenters of Alâ—-houses not at all serious in Religion shew little sence of it in their discourses Preaching or practises men of little conscience and of as little learning Firm. This accusation is most fals whether it springs from spite or malice or extream ignorance I know not sure I am our Church orders that no suâ—h persons be admitted to the Holy Sacrament thâ—t no such Ministers be permitted to officiate that they are to be suspended once and again and if they do no not reform they are to be deprived for the first you may see the Rubrick before the Communion and the 26. Canon For the Second see Artic 26. and Canon the 74. and 75. and Canon 10. made 1640. which are so clear against the admitting of profane persons to to the Communion or tollerating of scandalous Ministers without due Punishment that whosoever chargeth these abuses upon our Church must be grosly ignorant or very malitious Dub. Yet we see that such prophane persons are admitted to the Sacrament as members of your Church and such unworthy Minsters are allowed to officiate Firm. Such persons are no members of out Church but rather the Synagoge of Satan and that Minister who does admit such persons natoriously prophane to the Holy Sacrament is a greater Non-conâ—ormist to the orders of the Church then he that scruples at a Surplice and those Church-wardens who neglect to present them are guilty of Perjury and ought to be debar'd themselves from the Communion Can. 26. Dub. 'T is evident that such Ministers are not Punished either by Admonition Suspensition or Deprivation Firm. This is not true in all places to my knowledge where such Ministers or people escape unpunished 't is mostly by the fault of the Church-wardens and Sides-men in not presenting them for what Judge either Ecclesiastical or Civil can punish offences that are not brought before him Dub. But many times offences and scandalâ— have been presented and the offender not punisâ—â—d yea your Ecclesiastical Judges are more severe against those who are Non-conformists to the laws oâ— the Church â—hen agâ—inst those that are Non-conformists to the laws of God as profane irreligeous wretches Firm. No mâ—n câ—n excuse the personal abuses that are committed in any Court Civil or Ecclesiastical all Court Officers never yet were nor ever will be men of integrity â—nd of unbias'd judgments no question that many abuses which are committed by the Officers of Ecclesiastical Courts might be prevented if the Bishops would be somtimes personally present in their respective consistoâ—ies as was intimated they ought to be Canon 11. made 1640. If we must seperate from a Church that enjoyns no Intollerable conditions for Communion with her because of some personal â—aulâ—s of those who are entrusted with her Goverment we must turn Seekers for where shall we find a Church whose Officers are alwaies all of them impartially just and upright Dub. I confess there is no good reason we should seperate from a Church
because of personal abuses in the Governors or under Officers where the Goverment in ' its constitution is not Faulty neither the terms of Communion intollerable but is there any reason that Nonconformists should be more shâ—rply dealt with then Debâ—ucht Profane Persons Firm. If we should compare Schisme Seperation Non-conformity with Profaness it would not be easy to say which is the greatest or which is the least Sin the first may be Majoris culpae the other Majoris infamiae as Aquinas rightly judgeth 1.2 q. 73. A. 5. of Carnal and Spiritual Sins those as Pride and Malice are greater Sins but these as Drunkenness Fornication are more Scandalous But to wave the comparison and to give you freely my own sentiments in this particular I do conceive that Debauchery and Profaness ought to be more severely punished then Negative Seperation and simple Non-conformity My reasons are these 1. Every prudent Parent will be moâ—e severe against a wicked Child that continues under his Roof professing obedience aâ—d sâ—bjection then against that Child which has utterly forsaken his Father and utterly abandon'd his House and Family 2. The sins of Proâ—â—ness and Debâ—uchery being willful for Drunkards and profane persons do not pleâ—d ignorâ—nce and weakness are oâ—â— more Mâ—lignâ—nt nature then sins of Ignorancâ— though it be such an ignorance which was not all together Invincible but contracted by Pride Pevishness Interest or Prejudice under which many Seperatists and Non-Conformists are in Bondagâ— and â—aptivity 3. The Lives and Conversations oâ— Debauched and Profane Persons who go under the name of Protestants and Members of our Church though intruth they are not but rather Limbs of Satan are the greatest Reproach and Scandal to it These are the men that furnish Shismaticks and Non-Conformists with their best Arguments which they urge against us For what they object against our Church Goverment Liturgie or Ceremonies is â—or the most part very frivilous and there is no Quaker Anabaptist Independents but mâ—kes the prophâ—ness of the Episcopaâ— party the chief reason and ground of his separation Dub. This I confess to be true from my own experience Nothing wrought so much upon me to foâ—sake the Church of England as the wicked and ungodly lives of those which she receives into her Communion Firm. That was your error for you cannot say thâ—t she receives any into her Communion whom by her Rubrick and Canons she â—xcludes and although through the laziness and connivence of Church Officers or Governors or both many an ungodly person receives the Sacament yet there is no just ground for a seperation from the Church which teaches nothing but what is Catholick and Apostolical Only I confess thaâ— in the exercise of Discipline she comes short of the Primitive severity against obstinate sinners yet the present Canons are so strict that if they were duly observed no openly wicked or ungodly person should be admitted to the Communion which would be a great satisfaction I am perswaded to those that now seperate from us Dub. But seing the Primitive Discipline has been so long time wished for above an Hundred years since as appears by the Rubrick before the Commination how comes it to pass that 't is not restored Shall we be still wishing and never acting or doing Firm. Why it has not been restored I know no other reason that is given but this The times will not bear it why the â—â—mes will not bear it I know not unless it be in respect of Seâ—taries who cry down many antient usâ—ges of the Church which they do not understand for Popery anâ— these men must not be offended least they be driven to an utter hatred oâ— opposition to our Church or else which is more probable such is the wickedness and profaness of the times that they will not endure the Primitive severity When will that time come that such strict discipline will be endured The Church has been in expectation of it above this Hundred years but still Schisms and Sects profaness and wickedness encrease every day more and more No question the times as to Sects and Pâ—ofaness if that were a sufficient reason are much more unfit to bear the antient discipline then they were when that wish was first made and the longer it is disused the more unfit they will be which I wish our prudent â—overnors would take into their serious considerations Dub. Certainly a Strict Discipline impartially executed upon all transgressors of Gods Holy Laws by sharp repâ—oofs severe admonitions due Suspensations from the Sacrament Excommunications Penances according to the quality of the offence would give a great check to that impiety and wickedness which reigns so much in our Land and take away much of the scandal which is given by our mixt Communions at which block of offence many have stumbled and fell out of our Church into Conventicles and Seperate Congregations Firm. No question a strict discipline would do much towards an hâ—ppy Reformation of manners in the Episcopal party but as you have observed the great scandal that is taken by the Non-conformists at the profaness and wickedness of that party so I must tell you that as great a scandal is given by them to those who conform to the Church of England though their lives and conversations being contrary to her Laws Canons they are no more members of our Church then a glass eye or wooden leg are live parts of a mans body Dub. I do not see wherein the Non-conformists whether Presbyterians or Independents have given any just occasion of scandal to any they being men that are very sober in their lives and great professors of Religion given much to Family-duties to Prayer to hearing of Sermons Firm. Hinc illae Lachrymae Here lies the scandal which mâ—kes Religion stink in the nostrils of profane and wicked men when they shall see that men professing holiness should make no conscience of Disobedience of Perjury of Rebellion against and at last of Murdering their Leige Sovereigne a man upon whom his most mallicious and crâ—tical enemies could never charge any scanlous sin Dub. These indeed are very grievious sins and much to be lamented but surely you cannot charge them upon the generality of thesemen but only upon some ambitious Hypocrites that made Religion a stalking-horse to bring about their devilish designs Firm. 'T is true that all the Non-conformiâ—â—s in England were not in actual armes against the King neither did they sit in the High Court of Injustice upon him neither did they all as natural agents cut of his Head but morally that is very sinfully and wickedly they had their hands stain'd with that Royal blood for whosoever did abet these sons of Belial in their Rebellions Treasons Murders of their King and fellow Subjects either by consenting to their Villanies praying for their prosperity praising God for their Victorious success or by assisting them with their councels advice free and voluntary Contributions by writing and preaching up the
justice of their cause are guilty before God os Treason Murder and Rebellion Dub. This censure is very severe and yet I cannot tell what to reply against it Many well meaning people observing certain abuses in Church and Common-wealth much desired a reformation of them and promised to themselves great things from the Long Parliament whereupon such is the brutish inclination of earnest desires and great expectations in the minds of men that are of short discourse that these poor inconsiderable persons were engaged against King and Country before they had well weighed That good Intentions cannot justify unlawful Actions That God has no need of the sinner That we must not do evil that good may come thereon But I am perswaded that these seduced men do see their former errors and are â—ruly penitent abominating from their hearts all Treasons and Rebellions against their Dread Sovereign and for the future will keep themselves from such unchristian practises Firm. I much commend you for your Chariâ—y and for those that had their hands in that grand Rebellion acd are noâ— truly penitent my hearty prayers are that the Lord would be merciful unto them and bless them and shew them the light of his countenance My severe censure as you were pâ—â—ased â—o â—ail it was never intended against such but we see very few that have manifested any signal tokens of repentance for their lifting up their hands against the Lord 's Anointed rather we may fear they will commit the same wickedness against his Majestie that now swayes the Royal Scepter if they hid a fair opportunity Disobedience is a long step to Rebellion and is it not evident that our present Non-conformists are more disobedient more refractory against his Majesties Laws Ecclesiastical then those that lived before the late warrs who though they were Non-conformists yet were they not Separatists Brownists as our present Non-conformists for the most part are some of them Mr. as Ball in his Tryal of the grounds of Separation and others smartly wriâ—ng against such Fanatiâ—ks And truly were there not a judicial blindness upon these men they might see by a wonderful providence the Lord did not own them in their Rebellious undertakings How strangely did their numerous and potent Armies dwindle into no thing hoâ— miraculously was our Gratious Soveraign preserved against all their Treasonable attempts and brought to the Throne of his Fathers with the greatest honor most general expressions of love and rejoycing that ever any Prince received from â—oyal Subjects and all this without the spilâ—ing of one drop of blood The Lord set it upon the heart of King and People to keep this signâ—l dispensation of His Providence in perpetual remembrance not to ruine theÌ„selves by Atheism Irreligion Profaneness or any enormous wickedness for which the wrath of God has bâ—en pouâ—ed out in full Viols upon wicked Kings and ungodly people as Sacred and other â—iâ—â—ories do sâ—sficiently manifest Dub. It may be feared that there are discontented persons who are like wrangling Gamsters that having a bad game dealt them desire the Cards might be shuffl'd again that they might have a better Stock but I am perswaded many would conform were there a Toleration in Reference to some Ceremonies as has been said and the Renouncing of the Covenant not enjoyn'd Firm. You have had my opinion as to a Toleration in point of Ceremonies as to the Covenant tho it hâ—s been the opinion of several moderate men that it had been better if it had dyed without any such solemn Act for ' its Abrenuntiâ—tion yet being it was peccant in all the four causes the Efficient Formal Material and Final 't was expedient in some respects for the Parliament to vote that it should be Renounced by all that expect Preferment in the Church of England and I do not see how any man who conceives himself bound by it can be a faithful Subject to His Prince besides there seems to be a signal judgment in it that the Covenant which was used as an Engine to remove the Cavaleers out of their Livings should have the same effect upon the Contrivers and â—igid Imposers of it for many of those were undon because they would not take it these because they would not Renounce it Nec lex est justior ulla Quam necis artifices arte perire sua 'T is Justice Law that he should feel the smart Who was first Author of that cruel Art I remember what Tacitus sayes of Cajus Vibius Eò immitior quia toleraverat And 't is like that the Cavileers having such a hard measure from the imposition of the Covenant would when power was in their hands make use of the Law of Retaliation by driving on the Act for Renouncing the Covenant and peradventure in some men there might be a grain or more of the Spirit of Revenge not beseeming Christian Charity how ever 't is a remarkable peice of Divine Providence that those who Pressed the Covenant upon their Brethren without mercy should suffer by it without mercy Dub. But as long as men have so little of a Christian spirit in them as to act by the Law of Retaliation of Spite and Revenge there is little of Peace and Unity to be expected Firm. We ought not to judge Acts of Parliament to be the Efforts of Revenge and Spite as for the Act about the Covenant there was some kind of necessity for it as to make tryal who were Loyal and Obedient Subjects who not for as 't was said before he that conceives himself bound by the Scotcâ—-Chaine cannot be a good English Subject However if the Suspending of that Act would assuredly unite us in Love and Peace I hartily wish that 't were not prest upon those that are of a quiet and peaceable Spirit agreeing with us in the most necessary Points of Religion that so we that have one Faith one Baptisme one Hope one Lord Iesus Christ one God the Father of all might keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace which is both our duty and our interest if we consider what advantage the Papists make of those divisions which are too many amongst us the Seeds whereof have been Sown by the Roman-Emissarys Dub. 'T is not to be doubted but that peace and unity and love among our selves would much dishearten those restless Enemies of our Church and State who leâ—ve no Stone unturn'd to divide us that they might Reign over us and perswade us by their most cogent Arguments which are Gun-Powder Fire and Fagot Bloody Massacres to embrace their gross Superstition and cause Religion and Primitive Christianity to flourish in our miserable divided Nation while that time which is now spent in vain wranglements and un-Christian contentions would be better imploy'd in devout Prayer Holy Meditation in Mortification of our Corruptions in duties of Piety towards Almighty God of Love Mercy and Charity one towards another And now Sir give me leave to pay you my very hearty acknowledgments for the profitable pains which you have taken to bring me out of those Bracks and Bogs of Atheisme Infidelity Schisme and Heresy unto my Old Mother the Church of Englâ—nd in whose Faith and Communion Thou O Father of Mercies Prince of Peace and God of all Consolation ever blessed and most Sacred Trinity â— grant that I may continue unto â—y Lives end and that I may so continue I beg your daily Prayers Firm. 'T is our great Christian duty to Pray one for another I shall not be wanting in the performance of it for your establishment in the true Ancient Catholick Christianity and I earnestly beseech you to remember me in your frequent intercessions and supplications at the Throne of Grace Blessed be the God of all power and wisdome who has thus prosper'd my weak endeavours in converting you from the error of your waies I will ad no more but this that you be true to the Doctrine Worship Discipline of our Church as they are contain'd in the Articles Liturgie Canons and Rubricks of it hold not any truth in Unrighteousness let your practise shew to the World that you truly and heartily believe what you profess be honest just in your Dealings towards men Temperate and Sober towards your selfe serious and single hearted in all duties of piety towards God and whatsoever things are honest whatsoever things are true whatsoever things are just Holy Lovely of good report Think on these things Practise these things make not the actions of men the Customs and Examples of these loose and evil Times humane Laws your rule to walk by but let the holy will and word of God be the adequate measure of your Life and Conversation walk conscientiously according to this rule and Peace and Mercy shalll be upon you as a true Israelite and one of Gods Peculiar People Amen FINIS ERRATA PAge 9. l. 11. read Dependent p. 12. l. 10. for puting r. putting p. 21. for their r. there p. 22. l. 3. leave our whether they be Pagans or Christians I know not p. 38. l. 12. for Statues r. statutes p. 70 l. 26. â— some of the Church p. 83. l. 12. for suspition r. superstition p. 104. l. 20. potius ad bene esse quam simpliciter ad esse is misplaced p. 113. â—r â— â—ot â—ankfulness p. 116.25 r. licence p. 119. l. 22. r. clear p. 121. l. 25. â— who was of p. 123. l. 22. r. incorporated p. 126. l. 28. r that have ruled well p. 129. l. 13. r. stiled p. 132. l 29. r. that sit at the Stern p. 133. l. 22. r. but not the end p. 136. l. â— r. throw away p. 138. l. 19. r. by phansies p 140. l. 30. r. assistance p. 155. l. 15. r. â—â—tâ—rioâ—sly ibid. 2â— 1 suspension p. 1â—5 l. â—3 r. suspensions †Dr. Moors Antidote and Dr. Stillingsâ—eets Orig. Sacrae pâ—g 395. R. B. Câ—â—visse videas crescere non vides see Mr. Pools Nullity of the Roman Faith Cenâ—â—l 〈◊〉 Sâ—ss 12. Câ—n. 1. Non imagini sâ—d numini sacrificamus Ae Mr Fowes History 2 Cor. 10.4 Prov. 24. Eccle. 8.2 Rom. 13.1 Pet. 2. Ier. 4.2 Deut. 6.13 Heb. 6.16 2. Cor. 1. Rev. 10.6 1 Cor. 1.14 Act. 2. Math. 28. 1. Cor. 9. â—poâ— 2.3 †'T was not long since that some of the Presbyterian aâ—d Iâ—pendent perswasion were Deans and Caâ—ons of Christ Church in Oxford such Dâ—gnities not then thought to be useless and Aâ—â—i-christian why should they be esteemed so now