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england_n church_n particular_a universal_a 2,763 5 9.8525 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A52018 Roman Catholicks uncertain whether there be any true priests or sacraments in the church of Rome evinced by an argument urg'd and maintain'd (upon their own principles) against Mr. Edward Goodall of Prescot in Lancashire / by Thomas Marsden ... Marsden, Thomas. 1688 (1688) Wing M725; ESTC R726 93,249 146

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sufficient_a 32_o section_n vii_o r._n catholic_n not_o certain_a of_o their_o priesthood_n take_v in_o general_a by_o any_o simple_a or_o absolute_a certainty_n nor_o certain_a of_o it_o take_v in_o special_a by_o any_o simple_a or_o so_o much_o as_o a_o moral_a certainty_n 35_o section_n viii_o the_o several_a explication_n before_o give_v sum_v up_o and_o the_o question_v resolve_v into_o its_o part_n 41_o the_o general_n content_v of_o the_o second_o part_n section_n i._n the_o general_a order_n of_o proceed_v the_o first_o part_n of_o mr._n g_n letter_n set_v down_o and_o examine_v 43_o section_n ii_o mr._n goodall_n set_v forth_o the_o argument_n and_o his_o answer_n to_o it_o as_o follows_z 50_o section_n iii_o a_o more_o general_a view_n of_o the_o mistake_v of_o mr._n g's_o answer_n 54_o section_n iu._n the_o intention_n of_o the_o bishop_n in_o
ordination_n can_v be_v make_v appear_v either_o by_o reason_n or_o authority_n 60_o section_n v._o the_o intention_n be_v not_o knowable_a by_o authority_n whether_o divine_a or_o humane_a 71_o section_n vi_o roman_n catholic_n have_v but_o a_o bare_a opinion_n to_o secure_v they_o of_o the_o point_n 78_o section_n vii_o the_o ordain_v bishop_n not_o certain_a whether_o there_o be_v true_a priest_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n 88_o section_n viii_o consequence_n draw_v from_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o the_o roman_a priesthood_n and_o the_o feeble_a condition_n of_o that_o church_n issue_v from_o thence_o show_v 97_o section_n ix_o the_o bank_n mr._n g._n have_v cast_v up_o to_o secure_v the_o roman_a priesthood_n take_v in_o general_a cast_v down_o 109_o section_n x._o mr._n g's_o argument_n urge_v by_o way_n of_o retort_n examine_v and_o enervate_v 127_o imprimatur_fw-la libre_fw-la cvi_fw-la titulus_fw-la roman_n catholic_n uncertain_a whether_o there_o be_v any_o true_a priest_n etc._n etc._n guil._n needham_n rr._n in_o christo_n p._n ac_fw-la d._n d._n wilhelmo_n archiep._n cantuar._n a_o sacr._n dome_a april_n 20._o 1688._o the_o uncertainty_n of_o any_o true_a priest_n or_o sacrament_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n prove_v against_o mr._n edward_n goodall_n the_o first_o part_n be_v chief_o explicative_a of_o term_n sir_n be_v you_o and_o i_o call_v to_o represent_v all_o the_o accidental_a discourse_n that_o pass_v between_o we_o when_o i_o be_v last_o at_o your_o house_n i_o fear_v we_o shall_v vary_v in_o our_o report_n for_o when_o you_o undertake_v within_o a_o hour_n after_o to_o tell_v part_n of_o it_o at_o the_o inn_n you_o find_v yourself_o to_o be_v contradict_v by_o those_o that_o hear_v we_o and_o indeed_o we_o penetrate_v so_o little_a into_o the_o merit_n of_o any_o point_n we_o speak_v of_o but_o how_o that_o happen_v our_o auditor_n can_v best_o say_v that_o it_o will_v not_o be_v worth_a the_o while_n either_o for_o we_o to_o tell_v or_o other_o to_o hear_v the_o unready_a fruitless_a story_n of_o it_o however_o to_o make_v way_n to_o our_o present_a business_n i_o think_v fit_a to_o entertain_v the_o reader_n for_o as_o your_o paper_n have_v already_o so_o i_o may_v meet_v with_o more_o eye_n than_o you_o and_o i_o with_o a_o little_a of_o what_o pass_v before_o the_o close_a of_o our_o altercation_n which_o be_v do_v i_o shall_v proceed_v to_o the_o work_n which_o you_o have_v since_o score_v out_o for_o i_o and_o for_o better_a order-sake_n and_o that_o you_o may_v with_o more_o ease_n let_v i_o know_v the_o fault_n you_o find_v with_o i_o i_o shall_v divide_v my_o paper_n into_o several_a section_n and_o and_o paragraph_n sect_n i._o matter_n of_o fact_n relate_v relate_v 1._o when_o you_o allege_v that_o our_o order_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v invalid_a in_o the_o judgement_n of_o roman_a catholic_n a_o thing_n i_o can_v not_o wonder_v at_o have_v cause_n to_o believe_v you_o have_v renounce_v they_o i_o straight_o justify_v they_o by_o those_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n unto_o which_o our_o first_o reform_a bishop_n be_v admit_v you_o say_v they_o have_v indeed_o be_v good_a have_v our_o bishop_n keep_v to_o the_o old_a ordinal_n but_o that_o they_o forsake_v it_o and_o only_o give_v power_n to_o dispense_v the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n which_o any_o deacon_n may_v do_v and_o that_o afterward_o perceive_v the_o nullity_n that_o happen_v by_o it_o they_o again_o alter_v the_o form_n and_o give_v power_n to_o do_v the_o office_n of_o a_o priest_n thus_o you_o you_o 2._o to_o this_o i_o return_v that_o word_n and_o phrase_n may_v be_v change_v and_o yet_o their_o matter_n remain_v the_o same_o and_o that_o so_o it_o be_v in_o this_o case_n you_o take_v the_o word_n dispense_v i_o tell_v you_o in_o too_o narrow_a and_o cramp_v a_o sense_n make_v it_o denote_v only_a distribution_n with_o respect_n to_o the_o eucharist_n whereas_o our_o church_n make_v it_o there_o signify_v consecration_n also_o i_o add_v scripture-language_n will_v secure_v we_o in_o this_o for_o s._n paul_n himself_o set_v forth_o the_o entire_a office_n of_o the_o gospel-ministry_n by_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o dispensation_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o all_o gospel-minister_n those_o of_o the_o high_a rank_n not_o except_v by_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d dispenser_n of_o the_o mystery_n of_o god._n which_o you_o can_v not_o gain_v say_v and_o hence_o i_o conclude_v that_o the_o alteration_n speak_v of_o be_v verbal_n only_o and_o not_o material_a material_a 3._o this_o end_v to_o occasion_v you_o to_o take_v a_o view_n of_o some_o fetter_n which_o the_o roman_a church_n have_v put_v upon_o she_o own_o claim_n i_o deny_v that_o she_o can_v be_v certain_a according_a to_o her_o own_o principle_n that_o she_o have_v any_o true_a priesthood_n i_o think_v sir_n some_o of_o your_o council_n have_v put_v the_o stamp_n of_o faith_n upon_o a_o doctrine_n which_o will_v in_o its_o just_a consequence_n so_o far_o blot_v the_o evidence_n of_o your_o priesthood_n and_o of_o all_o other_o your_o thing_n that_o depend_v upon_o it_o as_o to_o make_v they_o not_o certain_o legible_a and_o therefore_o i_o use_v those_o word_n according_a to_o your_o own_o principle_n and_o find_v you_o not_o forward_o to_o prevent_v i_o by_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a i_o gain_v your_o leave_n to_o make_v good_a the_o negative_a which_o i_o attempt_v to_o do_v by_o the_o follow_a argument_n argument_n 4._o all_o church_n that_o make_v priestly_a ordination_n depend_v upon_o a_o condition_n that_o no_o man_n live_v know_v whether_o it_o be_v fulfil_v must_v be_v uncertain_a whether_o they_o have_v any_o true_a priesthood_n but_o the_o roman_a church_n make_v priestly_a ordination_n depend_v upon_o a_o condition_n that_o no_o man_n live_v know_v whether_o it_o be_v fulfil_v ergo_fw-la the_o roman_a church_n must_v be_v uncertain_a whether_o she_o have_v any_o true_a priesthood_n priesthood_n 5._o when_o i_o complain_v of_o your_o repeat_v my_o syllogism_n imperfect_o you_o allege_v it_o be_v a_o long_a one_o and_o therefore_o desire_v i_o to_o write_v it_o down_o for_o the_o help_n of_o your_o memory_n to_o gratify_v you_o i_o write_v the_o whole_a as_o it_o stand_v save_v that_o i_o only_o hint_v the_o predicate_a of_o the_o minor_a as_o sufficient_a for_o your_o help_n after_o perusal_n of_o it_o you_o deny_v the_o minor_a which_o i_o prove_v thus_o thus_o 6._o the_o intention_n of_o the_o bishop_n be_v a_o condition_n which_o no_o man_n live_v know_v whether_o it_o be_v fulfil_v or_o no._n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v the_o intention_n of_o the_o bishop_n to_o ordination_n ergo_fw-la the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v a_o condition_n to_o ordination_n which_o no_o man_n live_v know_v whether_o it_o be_v fulfil_v or_o no._n no._n 7._o now_o in_o compliance_n with_o the_o word_n of_o the_o former_a syllogism_n not_o advert_v to_o through_o haste_n when_o i_o form_v the_o second_o i_o shall_v present_v the_o matter_n of_o this_o latter_a thus_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o bishop_n be_v a_o condition_n that_o no_o man_n live_v know_v whether_o it_o be_v fulfil_v but_o the_o roman_a church_n make_v ordination_n depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o bishop_n ergo_fw-la the_o roman_a church_n make_v ordination_n depend_v upon_o a_o condition_n that_o no_o man_n live_v know_v whether_o it_o be_v fulfil_v i_o have_v not_o sir_n make_v this_o digression_n for_o your_o sake_n who_o do_v not_o before_o by_o word_n nor_o since_o by_o writing_n find_v the_o least_o fault_n with_o my_o bare_o verbal_a alteration_n i_o do_v it_o only_o out_o of_o a_o respect_n to_o decorum_n but_o i_o must_v go_v on_o with_o it_o a_o little_a for_o the_o sake_n of_o the_o less_o discern_a reader_n the_o minor_a proposition_n wherein_o the_o variation_n lie_v i_o will_v place_v together_o for_o the_o more_o easy_a comparison_n of_o they_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v the_o intention_n of_o the_o bishop_n to_o ordination_n the_o roman_a church_n make_v ordination_n depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o bishop_n upon_o the_o first_o view_n of_o they_o thus_o place_v it_o appear_v that_o they_o be_v equivalent_a proposition_n give_v the_o very_a same_o sense_n and_o so_o be_v both_o alike_o true_a or_o both_o alike_o false_a for_o by_o the_o word_n require_v i_o mean_v require_v as_o necessary_a this_o i_o have_v add_v lest_o any_o shall_v be_v apt_a to_o conclude_v they_o see_v another_o person_n because_o they_o see_v another_o dress_n but_o to_o return_v from_o this_o unnecessary_a digression_n you_o deny_v the_o major_a of_o my_o second_o syllogism_n allege_v that_o it_o be_v not_o universal_o true_a forasmuch_o as_o the_o ordain_v bishop_n know_v whether_o they_o intend_v to_o ordain_v or_o no._n no._n
ultimate_a but_o as_o something_o in_o general_n which_o relate_v to_o christ_n institution_n or_o the_o appointment_n or_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n or_o the_o like_a sect._n 6._o 5._o that_o a_o virtual_a intention_n be_v necessary_a and_o sufficient_a sect._n 7._o your_o sense_n of_o the_o term_n must_v as_o be_v say_v before_o be_v i_o and_o that_o i_o have_v true_o represent_v your_o sense_n your_o author_n already_o produce_v or_o refer_v to_o will_v amount_v to_o a_o full_a certificate_n they_o will_v secure_v i_o upon_o the_o supposition_n make_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o your_o council_n be_v capable_a of_o be_v understand_v at_o least_o by_o the_o lead_a member_n of_o your_o own_o church_n if_o it_o be_v not_o you_o magnify_v those_o your_o council_n without_o reason_n which_o either_o can_v not_o speak_v intelligible_o or_o for_o some_o odd_a end_n seem_v to_o define_v faith_n when_o they_o do_v nothing_o 6._o i_o deny_v that_o your_o priesthood_n take_v indeterminate_o or_o in_o general_a do_v in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n or_o without_o special_a revelation_n admit_v the_o infallible_a certainty_n of_o divine_a faith_n or_o that_o take_v determinate_o or_o in_o particular_a it_o admit_v either_o the_o aforesaid_a certainty_n of_o faith_n or_o a_o experimental_a or_o yet_o a_o moral_a certainty_n proper_o so_o call_v call_v 1._o by_o certainty_n i_o still_o mean_v a_o intellectual_a certainty_n such_o as_o be_v consentaneous_a to_o its_o object_n which_o be_v the_o measure_n and_o foundation_n of_o it_o these_o thing_n be_v thus_o set_v in_o open_a view_n it_o will_v be_v easy_o apprehend_v that_o our_o question_n be_v a_o complex_n question_n and_o be_v resolvable_a into_o two_o simple_a one_o which_o as_o they_o be_v state_v will_v stand_v thus_o thus_o 2._o 1._o whether_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o make_v priestly_a order_n necessary_o depend_v upon_o the_o ordain_v bishop_n at_o least_o virtual_a intention_n of_o the_o end_n of_o ordination_n can_v be_v certain_a with_o a_o absolute_a or_o infallible_a certainty_n of_o faith_n that_o they_o have_v some_o true_a priest_n in_o general_n general_n 3._o 2._o whether_o that_o church_n can_v be_v certain_a with_o the_o aforesaid_a certainty_n of_o faith_n or_o with_o a_o moral_a certainty_n that_o they_o have_v this_o or_o that_o true_a priest_n in_o particular_a now_o i_o deny_v to_o your_o church_n the_o forenamed_a respective_a certainty_n of_o their_o have_v a_o true_a priesthood_n in_o either_o sense_n and_o which_o be_v more_o have_v take_v upon_o i_o to_o prove_v the_o negative_a a_o task_n i_o can_v complain_v of_o though_o it_o be_v not_o very_o natural_a because_o i_o be_v for_o once_o content_a to_o take_v it_o upon_o myself_o pray_v mark_v that_o i_o moreover_o deny_v a_o theological_a certainty_n of_o your_o priesthood_n take_v in_o either_o of_o the_o sense_n of_o it_o abovementioned_a that_o be_v i_o deny_v that_o it_o can_v be_v conclude_v either_o from_o two_o reveal_v proposition_n or_o from_o one_o reveal_v and_o another_o evident_a by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n bellarmine_n silence_n of_o it_o tempt_v i_o to_o omit_v it_o in_o the_o last_o section_n the_o second_o part_n be_v argumentative_a sect_n i._o the_o general_a order_n of_o proceed_v the_o first_o part_n of_o mr._n g's_o letter_n set_v down_o and_o examine_v have_v finish_v the_o explication_n require_v of_o i_o in_o a_o far_a other_o and_o ample_a manner_n than_o be_v require_v and_o whatever_o else_o i_o think_v useful_a in_o a_o previous_a way_n for_o the_o clear_a sight_n of_o the_o point_n in_o question_n i_o shall_v now_o declare_v in_o what_o general_a order_n i_o purpose_v to_o proceed_v proceed_v 1._o 1._o i_o shall_v evince_v by_o manage_v the_o medium_fw-la already_o exhibit_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v uncertain_a of_o their_o have_v any_o priesthood_n as_o priesthood_n be_v take_v determinate_o or_o as_o i_o may_v say_v in_o the_o parcel_n this_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n i_o former_o stand_v upon_o when_o i_o have_v occasion_n in_o a_o very_a short_a paper_n a_o single_a folio_n page_n to_o expose_v the_o evil_n incident_a to_o roman_a catholic_n from_o their_o doctrine_n of_o the_o intention_n let_v i_o say_v by_o the_o way_n i_o mean_v that_o paper_n to_o which_o one_o of_o your_o priest_n tell_v i_o in_o your_o hear_n he_o have_v some_o year_n ago_o see_v a_o answer_n i_o add_v i_o wish_v i_o can_v see_v it_o too_o that_o i_o may_v for_o some_o reason_n compare_v it_o with_o you_o and_o this_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n i_o intend_v to_o do_v at_o the_o first_o start_v of_o the_o argument_n with_o you_o as_o know_v it_o will_v enable_v i_o when_o make_v good_a to_o load_v you_o sufficient_o with_o unwelcome_a consequence_n and_o to_o set_v that_o in_o the_o light_n which_o it_o will_v be_v your_o interest_n to_o keep_v in_o darkness_n darkness_n 2._o 2._o i_o shall_v consider_v a_o little_a beyond_o my_o first_o purpose_n how_o far_o your_o priesthood_n take_v indeterminate_o and_o as_o i_o may_v say_v in_o the_o gross_a will_v follow_v the_o fate_n of_o the_o other_o this_o be_v say_v i_o come_v to_o produce_v your_o letter_n purport_v a_o answer_n to_o my_o argument_n and_o to_o examine_v its_o force_n if_o i_o find_v myself_o so_o bridle_v up_o by_o it_o that_o i_o can_v run_v my_o design_a course_n i_o will_v acknowledge_v the_o power_n of_o your_o curb_n but_o if_o not_o i_o sure_o go_v forward_o to_o your_o loss_n the_o former_a part_n of_o mr._n goodall_n letter_n sir_n it_o be_v allege_v to_o you_o that_o the_o order_n of_o the_o english_a church_n have_v be_v by_o roman_a catholic_n judge_v invalid_a by_o reason_n of_o your_o alter_v the_o form_n of_o ordination_n and_o sufficient_a discover_v your_o intention_n not_o to_o do_v as_o the_o church_n do_v in_o that_o sacrament_n and_o your_o way_n of_o defend_v your_o ordination_n seem_v to_o i_o very_o strange_a when_o you_o retort_v in_o this_o manner_n i_o deny_v say_v you_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v certain_a that_o she_o have_v any_o priesthood_n or_o sacrament_n according_a to_o her_o own_o principle_n and_o i_o oblige_v myself_o to_o deal_v with_o mr._n goodall_n about_o this_o point_n witness_v my_o hand_n thomas_n marsden_n i_o accept_v and_o subscribe_v edward_n goodall_n for_o when_o you_o deny_v that_o we_o be_v certain_a that_o we_o have_v any_o priesthood_n according_a to_o our_o own_o principle_n it_o be_v but_o reasonable_a for_o you_o to_o expect_v of_o we_o that_o we_o shall_v be_v uncertain_a at_o least_o that_o you_o have_v any_o since_o you_o so_o earnest_o contend_v to_o derive_v your_o succession_n and_o order_n from_o we_o see_v for_o this_o mr._n mason_n archbishop_n laud_n bishop_n bramhal_o bishop_n taylor_n dr._n fern_n dr._n hammond_n etc._n etc._n and_o there_o be_v a_o old_a rule_n you_o know_v nil_fw-la that_fw-mi quod_fw-la in_o se_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la but_o whatsoever_o you_o pretend_v of_o our_o be_v uncertain_a concern_v the_o truth_n of_o our_o priesthood_n yet_o for_o our_o comfort_n you_o be_v certain_a enough_o of_o it_o and_o therefore_o you_o never_o re-ordain_a those_o priest_n who_o sometime_o though_o rare_o apostatise_v from_o the_o roman_n catholic_n to_o join_v in_o your_o communion_n the_o word_n you_o have_v use_v in_o state_v the_o point_n against_o the_o roman_n catholic_n church_n be_v very_o extraordinary_a when_o you_o deny_v she_o to_o be_v certain_a that_o she_o have_v any_o priesthood_n or_o sacrament_n according_a to_o her_o own_o principle_n thus_o you_o the_o examination_n of_o it_o follow_v sir_n although_o the_o prefatory_a part_n of_o your_o letter_n here_o recite_v do_v not_o at_o all_o affect_v my_o argument_n by_o way_n of_o answer_n and_o so_o without_o any_o prejudice_n may_v be_v pass_v by_o without_o regard_n yet_o on_o other_o account_n i_o find_v it_o my_o concern_n to_o dissect_v it_o and_o to_o expose_v its_o putrid_a part_n part_n 3._o you_o then_o undertake_v two_o thing_n in_o it_o 1._o to_o relate_v some_o matter_n of_o fact_n which_o pass_v between_o you_o and_o i_o 2._o to_o insinuate_v some_o disadvantage_n incur_v on_o my_o part_n through_o at_o least_o a_o unwary_a manage_n of_o thing_n both_o these_o shall_v be_v inspect_v for_o the_o first_o your_o relation_n of_o fact_n contain_v two_o thing_n 1._o your_o charge_v the_o church_n of_o england_n with_o the_o invalidity_n of_o her_o order_n both_o because_o we_o have_v alter_v the_o form_n of_o ordination_n and_o also_o discover_v our_o intention_n not_o to_o do_v as_o the_o church_n do_v in_o that_o sacrament_n as_o you_o term_v it_o 2._o my_o attempt_n to_o discharge_v she_o by_o deny_v the_o roman_a church_n to_o be_v certain_a that_o she_o have_v a_o true_a priesthood_n or_o sacrament_n according_a to_o her_o own_o principle_n