A DEFENCE OF THE GOVERNMENT ESTABLISHED IN THE CHVRCH OF ENGLANDE FOR ECCLESIASTICALL MATTERS Contayning an aunswere vnto a Treatise called The Learned Discourse of Eccl. Gouernment otherwise intituled A briefe and plaine declaration concerning the desires of all the faithfull Ministers that haue and do seeke for the discipline and reformation of the Church of Englande Comprehending likewise an aunswere to the arguments in a Treatise named The iudgement of a most Reuerend and Learned man from beyond the Seas c. Aunsvvering also to the argumentes of Caluine Beza and Danaeus with other our Reuerend learned Brethren besides Caenaiis and Bodinus both for the regiment of women and in defence of her Maiestie and of all other Christian Princes supreme Gouernment in Ecclesiasticall causes Against The Tetrarchie that our Brethren would erect in euery particular congregation of Doctors Pastors Gouernors and Deacons with their seuerall and ioynt authoritie in Elections Excommunications Synodall Constitutions and other Ecclesiasticall matters Aunsvvered by Iohn Bridges Deane of Sarum Come and See Ioh. 1.36 Take it vp and Read Aug. lib. conf 8. ca. 12. AT LONDON Printed by Iohn VVindet for Thomas Chard 1587 The Preface to the Christian Reader WHereas in a Sermon preached at Paules Crosse about two yeares past I had touched on occasion some part of this Learned Discourse then lately set foorth and for the peoples satisfaction I had aunswered some principall argumentes of the same in defence of her Maiesties supreme gouernment in Eccl. causes and for our Bishops iurisdiction as appeareth by the Sermon it selfe which for the further manifesting the occasion hereof I haue set forth also and recommend deare Christian Reader to thy fauourable interpretation which Sermon according to the diuerse affections of the auditorie tooke diuerse effectes some beginning to relent and be resolued which before had beene greatly carried away in the contrary perswasion of these matters and promising reconcilement vnto their Bishops whose state before they had misliked some on the otherside tooke such offence at that part of the Sermon which touched these thinges that they ceased not to deface it and to chalenge mee for it I then promised not only the anowing of that I had spoken but also God assisting me the publishing both of the whole sermon and the aunswering atlarge of all the Learned Discourse For discharge of which promise and because this booke pretendeth such a plausible title and withall is reckoned of so great account as I afterwarde could get oportunitie and leasure thereunto proceeding by little and little in the same and by the way taking withall some parts of the like argument that other our Brethren haue since composed and partly passing vp from them to the very fountaines as I take it from whence all our Brethren fetch their chiefest motiues or the groundes of them especially in these three reuerendâ and learned Fathers Caluine Beza Danaeus I haue now thankes be to God at length after many delaies and stoppes thereof thus farre forth accomplished set out the same It is no small griefe to me I protest that on this occasion I was thus drawen into these questions with those whom otherwise in Christe I humbly acknowledge to be our deare Brethren And much gladlier the Lord knowes would I be to haue wholly obiected my selfe as before to my mediocritie I haue endeuoured against the publike aduersaries of Gods truth And would God all we which are of the houshold of faith professing the light and libertie of the Gospell would againe bende our forces that wayes against the errours and tyrannie of Antichrist In which course a while we did runne well but as the Apostle sayth to the Galathians who hath let vs For so long as we ioyntly followed the quest of that vncouth beast and of the purple Harlot on his backe God mightely prospered vs in all our affayres Yea it is wonderfull to consider if we haue grace to acknowledge it how God hath still hetherto aboue any Nation in the worlde in this last age thereof and yet doth not cease to blesse vs his name of vs againe ineessantly be blessed and magnified for it Howbeit the shadowe is not more concomitant to the bodie than enuie is aemulous of vertue and glory As there is no state so happy on all partes in this life but it shall euer be crossed with some or other daunger or disturbance so doth the enuious man in these our Alcions dayes labour nothing more than to impugne and to ouerthrowe this our blessâd state yea to haue bereft vs of the Lordes annoynted his holy handmayden our most gratious Soueraigne by whom vnder our Lord Iesus Christ God hath vouchsafed vs all these blessinges In which practise although the aduersaries attempts haue beene so perilous and vnnaturall that the very remembrance of them breedeth horrour yet the Lords continuall deliuerance from them hath bin so admirable and almost miraculous that we can not but all reioyce together breake forth into the prayses of our so gratious father our most mightie righteous mârcifull God and cast all our repose vpon his prouidence But as the holy Apostle S. Peter prudently forwarneth vs be sober and watch for your aduersarie the diuell as a roaring Lyon walketh about seeking whom he may deuour so see the malice and craft of this old serpent That thing which he could neuer atcheiue by himselfe withall the subtleties of his smooth temptations nor by his grand deputie the man of sin sonne of perdition withall his stratagems violent forces SathaÌ eftsoones hath now not only crept in among the childreÌ of God but hath so broken a sunder the bondes of Gods peace hath sowen the cockle of such contentions diuisions among vs that are brethren wherby such discord hath also risen euen among those that sowed before the good seed wheat that no small hindrance hath growen therby to the course of the Gospell as great hazard to the state of all our Church Realme as could haue bin inflicted by the open hostilitie of the publike enemie Yea what could lay vs more open to his iniuries thaÌ to fall out thus amoÌg our selues into these garboyles Or how freely can we nowe oppose our faces to confront our aduersaries when euermore we must haue a skew eye to the awke blowes of our own fellowes Brethr. hard at our elbowes Which double fight is so daungerous so distrustfull that it maketh many amongst vs to râuolt or at least to hoouer and is such an incouragemeÌt aduantage to the enemies to be more coÌfirmed in their errors strengthned in their confederacies that they insult vpon vs both yea they blaspheme the very gospel it selfe which we professe and all by occasion of these intempestiue but too tempestious disagrements When Abraham saw the falling out between his and Lots heardmen fearing the euill euent of such discorde he sayth vnto Lot let there be I pray thee no strife betweene
God So be it Blessed are the peace makers for they shall be called the children of God Math. 5.9 AA A DEFENCE OF THE GOVERNEMENT ESTABLISHED IN THE CHVRCH OF ENGLAND FOR ECCLESIASTICALL MATTERS The Preface of the learned discourse vnto the Christian Reader THE holie Prophets hauing oftentimes but searched when and at what time the foreseeing spirit of God declared vnto them the manifold afflictions and troubles of the Church to come haue therevpon entred into great lamentations for the same and haue not only wept and fasted themselues but haue compiled for the Churche whole bookes of Lamentations therein instructing them what waye to take for appeasing the wrath of God breaking out against them The Defence c. IN this applying the great lamentations weepings and fastings of the holy Prophets for the manifolde afflictions and troubles of the Church to come either in their daies or the timeâ succeeding wherof they prophecieâ ãâã the semblable manner of weeping âasting compiling like bookes of Lamentations by the fore-seeing Spirit of God reuealing vnto these our brethren ââe liâe manifolde afflictions now to inâââ vpon the church for the like offences our brethren héere in ãâã both too much abuse the fore-seeing spirit of God and take too farre vpon them ãâã be such Prophets and offer too great an iniury to Gods Church ãâã time God be praised héere in England both in threatning vs ãâã like calamities and in burdening vs with the like causes ãâã âhey can shew in them selues the like warrant of the fore-seeing ãâã and shew also that we prouoke the âierce wrath of God in like offânces But what speake I of their abussingthus the applicationof tââse holâ Prophetes when they dare also abuse the Apostle S. Peters words and his application of those Prophetes and of the for-seeing Spirite of God in them Doth Peter applie it to any such manifolde afflictions and troubles of the Church to come to prouoke any to enter into great lamentations for the same to weepe and faste and to compile for the church whole bookes of lamentations and not rather in that place heere quoted cite onely the Prophets fore-telling of our saluation and of the comming of Christ and although withall of his sufferings yet of his glorye c. to confirme our faith in him whose wordes are these 1. Pet. 1.9 c. Receiuing the ende or rewarde of your faith euen the saluation of your soules of which saluation the Prophets haue inquired and searched which prophecied of the grace that should come vnto you searching when or what time the spirite which testified before of Christ which was in them should declare the sufferings that should come vnto Christ and the glory that should follow vnto whome it was reuealed that not vnto themselues but vnto vs they shoulde minister the thinges that are nowe shewed vnto you by them which haue preached vnto you the Gospell by the holye Ghoste sente downe from heauen the which thinges the Angels desire to beholde What is héere in this application of S. Peter that is not cleane contrary to that wherto our brethren do applie it This therefore is too foule a wresting of the Scripture and that in the veryâ first entrie into the matter to stumble vpon such an vntruth or rather so to enforce it to discourage the people and to slaunder al the state of the Church thereby I note not this that we on the other side should instifle our selues as though we were not sinners or as though our sinnes were not manifold and grieuous sinnes or as though we wouldflatter any in their sinnes or lay pillowes vnder their armes lull them in the sleepe of security with singing vnto them Peace Peace No howsoeuer they burthen vs vntruly with that poynt we do by the grace of God as much acknowledge our manifold wickednesse and heauie prouocation of Gods wrath as doe our brethren though in other respectes then they doe For that which they impute to the lawes orders established in our Churche we sée not any iust cause so to diuerte the faulte from vs but rather to acknowledge in repentaunce the disorders to bee in our selues in not submitting our selues as we ought to doo in the duetie of our obedience to the lawes and orders For when we consider the sincerity of our faith whiâh God hath giuen vs grace by his Gospel to professe and beholde the âââuelous light of his kingdome into the which out of the power of darknâsse and shadow of death wherein we sat he hath translated vs the vnââekeable ioy and consolation of the spirit of God that we receiue héereby doth recomfort and confirme vs against the feare of our sinnes and terrour of the wrath of God But when againe we consider how we walke not in this light that shineth to vs but professe to be the children of light and commit the works of darkenes how our laws be good and our liues be euill this is a great touche vnto our conscience which rebating our ioy bringeth feare least the kingdome should be taken from vs and giuen to a nation that shall bring foorth better fruits thereof When we see how these three capitall vices of the world whereof S. Iohn complaineth The lust of the flesh the lust of the eies the pride of life doth so mightily cary away the greatest parte this we crie out vpon and bewaile the euent whereof indeede wee feare and giue warning of it as much we hope to our powers as any of our brethren do at least we confesse this is our duty offer to ioyne with our brethren in the earnest reprehension of these and al other vices and in denouncing Gods righteous iudgements on all those that continue vnrepentant in their sinnes and we reioyce with them that reioice and mourn with them that thus do mourn wishing to god herein that they also would ioine with vs. But their mourning is not for such grieuances nor their thretnings for such vices For we sée many that are great fauorites of their plotformes both dwell swel in these vices and nothing by our brethreÌ said vnto them yea they are of theÌ to all apparaunce not a little esteemed as of whom they are most maintained and vpholden But our brethrens chiefest mourning is a grudging repining at their brethren preachers as themselues are professors of the Gospel with theÌ and the chiefest spirituall fathers in our Church be they neuer so learned godly yet are they grieued at their superior dignitie better mayntenance and greater authority Yea they maligne and burden the lawes orders and gouernment it selfe not the abuses onely Yea they spare not the authority that is giuen to the Prince their most gratious Soueraigne but are offended therewith that they cannot thereby haue the entry which they séeke for into those lawes orders authority offices and discipline which they would bring in and wherof they haue
occasion to search these fathers better And this was vsed to be done not onely in the seuerall treatises of the Fathers according to the councell of Vincentius Lyrinensis and as Theodoret vseth in his dialogues c. but also in all the best and most famous Synodicall assemblies and disputations holden in the auncient councels to cite the testimonies of the godly fathers deceased and of the most famous fathers consentes that were then liuing for their interpretations and iudgements of their controuersies Neither ought our Brethren to shunne this manner of charging them with men dead or aliue For it is a good not adorning only of the trueth but finding out of the trueth lightning of the iudgement and mouing mens affections driuing them as with a mightie streame to the loue of the truth and when the trueth commeth indéede thus adorned wee thinke that which wee also labour to confirme and defende as they labour to procure the contrarie that none we doe not say can iudge otherwise then we doe but that they which doe iudge otherwise then we doe in these matters may haue sufficient cause to iudge as we do and to thinke them to be honorable not onely before men but before God also Nowe when our Brethren haue set downe al their deuise how they would haue these controuersies to be debated then they enter into the aunswere of the obiections which they suppose will be obiected against them and say For if any shall obiect that the graue authoritie of Archbishops and Byshops shall receaue a checke whilest they are brought to deale with those whom they iudge fewe young vnlearned and not comparable to themselues or that it is a chalenge not much vnlike the papistes or lastly that it shall bee preiudiciall to the estate of gouernement established In good time our Brethren remember among other these thrée obiections Neither are they of small moment being rightly set downe as indéede they may be more pithily obiected and require euerie one of them a sounde and sufficient aunswere It is no small matter if any shall obiect but this first and lightest obiection of these thrée that the graue Authoritie of Archb. and Bishops shall receaue a checke whilest they are brought to deale with those whom they iudge fewe young vnlearned and not comparable to themselues Albeit I thinke that neyther our Archbyshops nor Bishops doe Iudge of these our brethren that they be so fewe as it were better they were but rather too many at the least farre moe in number than our Archbishops or all our Bishops are neyther do they iudge them to be so young although manie of them indéede be very young both in yeares in iudgement and in experience of these matters but that the auncienter sort of them might for their age and time haue had leysure ynough to haue sought out the state and grounde of these questions long a-goe saue that they are too much fore grounded in their owne opinions But in these matters their youth or age is not called into question Neither doe our Archbishops or Bishops estéeme our brethren at least many of them for vnlearned but rather wish that they would not thinke and vaunt too much of their learning and if they would followe the Apostles counsell sapere ad sobrietatem it would better become them That when all is done is the best learning which findeth out and submitteth it vnto the trueth Neither doe the Archbishops and Bishops as I suppose iudge that our brethren are not comparable to themselues Although our brethren may remember there be thrée degrées of comparison and it might well ynough beséeme our brethren so to compare with the Archb. and Bishops that they would not forget their owne callings nor the dignities of the Archb. and Bishops which they call here their graue authoritie Howbeit they giue that tenne but in a light mockage to theÌ wheÌ as indéed they acknowledge the Archb. or B. not to haue anie authoritie at all but labour by all meanes besides their scoffe to be in all respects specially of authoritie so comparable to theÌ that they would not onely giue them a checke as their equalles but as their superiors euen checke mate vtterly to foyle and ouerthrow them Which if they can do by all their learning and in such maner as is requisite for the matter let theÌ not spare it a Gods blessing And if our Archb. and Bishops or any other of our partie that otherwise are as readie as any of our brethren to giue account of their hope and faith to anie orderly asking the same shal-be by her most excellent Maiestie and by her most honorable Counsell brought to deale with anie of all these our brethren I dare aduenture that they will not disdayne by any lawefull and godly meanes that can be deuised to deale with them if our brethren for their part would oblige themselues to stand there-to As for the second obiection it is of greater moment that this our bretherens chalenge is not much vnlike to the chalenge of the Papistes And can our brethren also foresée this that anie may obiect this vnto them that they make like chalenge to our Bishops as doo the Papists And are they neither afraid nor ashamed of it to drawe so neare the chalenge of the common aduersarie against their brethren and fathers in Gods church And yet the third obiection is the greatest that it shall- be preiudiciall to the estate of gouernment established which if it be sée what a hazard they put not so much the Archbishops and Bishops and manie other persons vnto besides the lawes and orders ecclesiasticall as the whole estate of the Church and realme of England and of all the gouernors as well as of the gouernement and so withall of all the ciuill and politike lawes established yea of her Maiesties owne estate gouernment and sacred person to be indangered Which obiection how they can sufficientlie answer vnto is an answer indéed worth the hearing For if now they can-not sufficientlie answer these obiections which here their selues before-hand presuppose will be or may be obiected against them it had béene better for them to haue suppressed these obiections Which will be a sore blanke to all their learned discourse following in the iudgement of the prudent and godlie reader Let vs now therefore sée their answer to the obiections And first in generall to them all thrée they say It may please their wisdomes who are to be iudges to consider what we haue to answer vnto these things which if they haue the truth of Gods word conteine the safest and best way in such cases tend to the full quieting of all and the remoouing of the plagues which are vpon vs and are likelie dailie further to come euen from the common aduersarie we may boldlie yet most humblie vpon our knees require them before God and all his elect Angels not to cast it awaie
héere they do in this learned discourse For this is both the alteration the endangering if not the ouerthrow at leastwise the making both the Church and common-wealth worse than they are But worse or better how do not their wordes implie an alteration For when they pretends the vrging only of the perfection of the Church and further good of the common-wealth what meane they else but that the Church is in an vnperfect estate that the common-wealth also is not in so good an estate as they vrge to bring it vnto And how is not this a plaine vrging of the alteration both of the Church and also of the common-wealth These wordes therefore are either coÌtradictory to theÌ-selues or else they would they would not Or they would they dare not for feare or shame plainly vtter what they vrge because they touch matters of moment indeede as they say euen the alteration of the estate matters too highe both for them and for vs to meddle withall namelie to alter which perteynetâ to persons of estate But now how would this alteration that indéede is vrged become the perfectioÌ of the churches estate further good of the common-wealth Forsooth say they whilest by this meanes amongst many other things of great importance the ignorant ministery by it Popery by Popery rebellion should be auoyded which by the other are moste manifestlye bredde and nourished These purposes I confesse are very good that Ignorance in the Ministery Popery rebellion may be auoided so that the auoiding of these things be done by good and lawfull meanes also But what is this that is héere said which by the other are most manifestly bred nourished Do they meane that the ignorant ministerie Popery and Rebellion are most manifestly bred and nourished by the estate of the Church of Eng and the gouernment thereof established What a most manifest vntrue and vncharitable challenge of our Churches common-wealths estate is this Yea saue that for my part I hope better oâ our brethren some and those good Protestants would not stick to say that this challenge wer now not onely not much vn-like the Papists but that it smelt somewhat strongly of breding norishing the third of these euils And other would at least say it were a false accusation of their poore brethren a foule slaÌder of the estate of the Church and gouernment established But I hope they wil construe their words to some gentler meaning sith it is most manifest to the contrarie that the estate of the church of England gouernement established do neither most manifestly or manifestly or any whit at all wittingly or directly breede or nourish any of these thrée euils eyther Ignorance in the ministery or Popery or Reblelion in any persons but punish theÌ in whomsoeuer they manifestlie appeare Albeit for the ignorant ministerie not perhaps in such manner of punishment as our brethreÌ would haue theÌ punished Yea our brethrens former confessioÌ it selfe doth not a little discharge the estate of the Church gouernmeÌt established froÌ these crimes in saying that Our true and holy faith hath in diuerse assemblies abroad at home bene disputed resolued now publikly maintayned Which cannot be taken for their doing onely but muche more for ours by farre odds then theirs For so much as we are the publike maintainers thereof not they whose gouernment hath yet no publike maintenance amongst vs. Yea they refuse the publik ministery of the word sacraments And yet if they had that alteration of the estate of the Church and common-wealth whose perfection and furder good they pretend whether it would come to such perfection or such further good as to auoide these thrée euils of an ignorant ministery of Popery of Rebellion or no and not rather breede and nourish them at least wise if not directly yet by occasion more then they now are bred nourished or whether it would be the best most manifest meanes to auoide theÌ more then they be or may be now auoyded therby I may say vnto you lyeth a question For as our brethren told vs before of some among them that did this and that So some among vs that wish wel to our brethren think that this alteration of theirs would breed and nourish as great if not greater ignorance then is already euen in the Preachers themselues that it would cut of a great part of the study profession of al good letters both in diuinity humanity especially seing the example boldenes of diuerse some preteÌding onlie the studie of the canonicall scriptures some pretending the reuelatioÌ of Gods spirit without studie so to suggest vnto theÌ at the same instant that they need not to premeditat what they should speak before they come vnto the pulpit Some vnder pretence of tourning the most part of teaching and exhorting into conceptions of long prayers Some in distinguishing too precisely the office of a Teacher from the office of a Pastor cutting off ther-by the on half of a Doctors office excluding al exhortatioÌ reprehensioÌ consolatioÌ al applicatioÌ froÌ his doctrine and the most of them such as their-selues could not deny in the first obiection but said Let vs graunt the great difference which they make of yeares learning betweene the Archbishops the Bish. and them and yet would these not only ouerthrow their estate of gouernment but make euery one of them-selues to be equal to them besides the setting vp in euery congregation a Seniory of Ecclesiastical gouernours chosen out of all sortes estates of men Noble men Gentlemen merchaunts yeomen artificers husbandmen c. which ought to haue the hearing examination and determining of all matters pertayning to discipline and gouernement of that congregation as they tell vs in this Learned discourse pag. 84. And besides the Deacons excluded from all preparing themselues to the studie of the Pastorall ministery These things and a number suche like many that loue our brethrendo feare would shortly breed and nourish a greater ignorance in the ministery then now there is especially seing the boldnesse of many both Ministers and others either manifestly known to be ignorant of the pitch of these controuersies or but superficially flourished ouer are the hoatest sticklers in these broyles or the greatest fauorites of this desired and vrged alteration yet some of them if they were well apposed while there is nothing in their mouthes more than discipline discipline they cannot tell their selues what discipline is would be full weery of it if they had it or if they were but a litle sharply displed but euen with that discipline that is already in force by the gouernement of the church established Now as Ignorance breedeth and nourisheth Popery or other errors superstitions so againe they feare that this alteration by so many manifest occasions breeding and nourishing ignorance either it might as manifestly breede and nourish Popery euen
plainely set foorth by any man Prooue the necessitie of the matter and we will not greatly stick vpon your Methode And would to God that which you say here of yâ Methode ye would say it or rather obserue it of the plaine truthe it selfe and for the matter of the regiment concerning these offices that except yee can hereafter shewe which is yet not done that we are bounde by any commaundement of Christ or his Apostles vnto this your regiment of all and onely these 4. offices ye would say likewise with vs for the Gouernement established in the Church of Englande that as wee controll not other mens gouernement by ours so we would not that other mens manner of gouerning should be preiudiciall vnto ours But if ye will not haue vs controll your Methode vtter the same also in plaine wordes Our controuersie is all of the gouernement of the Church and you tell vs what Methode ye will obserue in describing the ministerie of the Churche as by which both the distinction and communication of all offices and seruices in the Church might most plainly appeare What doe ye make all offices and seruices in the Church to be of ministers Or al the offices seruices to be of gouernors How the distinction or communication of these may plainely appeare woulde haue béene somewhat more distinctly and plainely spoken As touching the reason of your request why ye would not haue your Methode controlled nor other mens methodes preiudiciall to yours I thinke it reasonable if there were no further difference then in the sorme and order of teaching of diuerse men when in matter of substance they all agree Anâ yet in such matters as these are and so precisely vrged an vniformitie not onely of matter but also of the Order and Methode in teaching of them might perhaps haue made the matter lesse offensiue Howbeit if they all agree in matter of substance and the matter of substaunce bee true be good be necessarie which they all agree vpon so that they séeke the truthe indéede and plainnesse in their Teaching then is as they say it is but either for lacke of wit or through too much wilfulnesse if any exclaime there is no vnitie and therefore no truthe among them But when in matter and substance they differ not onely one from an-other but from themselues also then blame not men nor impute it to them that either for lacke of wit or that through too much wilfulnesse they say there is not so much vnitie and truthe among them as in matters so earnestly vrged there ought to be But now to the particuler viewe of these 4. offices Let vs then proceede in our purpose The office of Teaching is the chiefe and principall office that is in the Church By that we are taught to knowe God and howe to serue him and what benefits to looke for at his hande without which knowledge there can be no felicitie but only destruction looked for according to the saying of the wise man where prophecying faileth there the people perish Albeit the office of teaching in these respectes as to know God and how to serue him and what benefites to looke for at his handes as the ordinary cause sine qua non without which there is no knowledge and without knowledge there can be no felicity but c. may wel be said to be the chiefe and principall office that is in the Church yet in respecte of the Ecclesiasticall gouernment which is the title of all this Learned discourse vnderstanding the same truly and plainly for the gouernment in of or ouer al Ecclesiastical causes how they should be ordeined directed or disposed I take it that this office of teachers admitting it were such a distinct office by it selfe from the office of Pastors as they woulde haue it is not the chiefe and principall office in the Church In Christe him selfe are the offices of a King of a Prieste and of a Prophete And in that he was a Prophete he was a Teacher also or Doctor Which office was so necessary to reueale the will of his heauenly father that both God the father said from heauen This is my welbeloued sonne in whome I am well pleased heare him Mat 17 And Christ of himselfe Luc. 4. did reade this sentence The spirite of the Lord is vppon mee because he hath anointed mee that I shoulde preach the Gospell to the poore c. So that where no man saw God at any time except the onely begotâen Sonne which is in the bosome of the Father had declared him Io 1 As he saith also Io. 17. I haue giueÌ vnto theÌ the words which thou gauest mee and they haue receaued them and beleeued them c. without the which teaching there can be no felicitie but only destruction looked for as he said before in the same prayer This is life eternall to know thee to be the onelie very God and whome thou hast sent Iesus Christ yet not-with-standing the chiefe and principall office of gouerning the Churche of God was neither this high and necessary office of his teaching nor yet that of his Priesthoode which was as necessary yea and higher in the actions of the office then the other But his royall and kingly office was and is the chiefe and principall office in him And much morâ is it in the outward regiment of the Church in Ecclesiasticall causes wherein Moses was aboue Aaron Iosue Dauid Solomon c. were aboue the high-priestes them-selues And so remaines it still except ye can shew the order of these offices of the church inuerted Of which the Papistes would be glad and vrge it harde especially from Peter wrestling there-to the thréefold saying of Christ to him Ioan. 21. Feede my Lambâs feede my sheepe feede my sheepe Meaning not only his gouerning but his office of Teaching which was his especial feeding of them and they driue it all to gouerning aduauncing them-selues before all Christian Princes And yet we graunt that in the action of their seuerall Ecclesiasticall function or Church ministery they are aboue all Christian Princes representing God vnto them teaching and admonishing them and all other But not aboue them in gouernment of all Ecclesiasticall causes Which is the question in controuersie now betwixt vs on the one parte and the Papists and these our owne Learned discoursing Brethren seuering them-selues from vs and adhering though not to them yet to their errour by a new deuise on the other parte The Ministery is deuided into two functions they that exercise the firste are called Pastors the other are called Doctors or Teachers I pray you my Learned discoursing Maisters for my learning héere againe let me aske this When ye desired not to bee controlled for your methode differing from others did ye include this not to be controlled though ye differ from your selues also and speake yee care not what contradictions both one against an-other and against your
other debility doth so weaken him that he cannot so lowde so cleane reddily reade as a childe or a woman may do But the holy auncient Fathers did not therfore contemne the office of Readers No they considered the person whome for their calling and office they represented and permitted neither childe woman nor any man neuer so prompt a Reader in such publike and autentike manner to reade these thinges but onely those men that were lawfullye called and authorized thereunto and did greatly reuerence and estéeme this office of Readers although they were not yet made Pastors but were Readers only And shall we now contemne them condemne them when these Readers are Pastors also and say that such a Pastor reading doeth the thinges which a childe of ten yeeres olde may do as well as he And yet it followes not if there were some such Pastors whome a childe didde excell that if any such vpoÌ some especiall consideration were born withall we shall neuer lacke vnlearned Pastors ignorant and vngodly people simonicall and sacrilegious Patrones c. Whereas mée thinkes and I speake it bonafide and I hope bona cum venia that rather of the twaine if these our brethrens deuises should take place we should haue more coÌteÌpt of learning and greater number of vnlearned Pastors and so more ignorant and vngodly and contentious people more simonicall and sacrilegious patrones if any patrones at all should be allowed more slow forwardnesse of the building of Gods church beside other many moe new superstitious fantasies which for shortnes we omit to speake of than eyther now there is or euer was or euer would be by any direct occasion of reading a prescript number of psalmes and chapters of the Scriptures with other appointed formes of prayer as now we haue But our brethren supposing they haue héere so full confuted this publike reading of prescribed formes of prayer psalmes and chapters that wee our selues would séeke to haue it yet for a while at least to be tollerated they would cut of this also and say What though some say formall reading might be borne withall for â time vntill the Church might be prouided of sufficient pastors which yet is not graunted shall it therfore continue alwayes to the perpetuall decay of knowledge and hurte of the Church of God Who are those some that so say that formall reading might bee borne withal for a time vntil c And what is héere meant by formal reading If it be a comelie and reuerent forme of reading a prescript number of Psalmes Chapters of the Scriptures with other appointed formes of prayer before mentioned Why shoulde anie saie it might bee borne withall for a time vntill the Church might be prouided of sufficient pastors as though the reading of these thinges should no longer be suffered but that afterward those that shoulde be thought to be sufficient pastors should haue no appointed formes of Prayer at all nor any number at all of Psalmes or chapters of the scriptures prescribed vnto them but that euery sufficient pastor might be free to vary in his formes of prayer and number of Psalmes and chapters of the scripture at his pleasure What sufficiency shall be appointed for such Pastors is not here set downe For my part I thinke there is no sufficiency in a Pastor to be counted a sufficient priuiledge so clearely to acquite him but that although he may now and then leaue out or adde or alter some part of the prescribed and appointed forme vpon occasion at his discretion yet were it not conuenient were he neuer so sufficient learned that there shoulde be no forme at all appointed For wee must not onely consider the sufficiency of the Pastor but withall the sufficiency or insufficiency of the people and the order and comlinesse of the Church Which is best obserued especially in these licentious and perillous times full of errors and corruptions not when wee are moste at libertye but when Orders appointed doe restraiue vs. But these our Brethren the Learned discoursers reiecte all suche formes of prayer and say What though some saye formall reading might be borne withall for a time vntill the Church might be prouided of sufficient Pastors which is not yet granted No is who are they that haue of late set forth this Pamphlet intituled A booke of the forme of common prayer and ministration of the sacramentes c. agreable to Gods word and the vse of the reformed Churches Is not formal reading and numbers of Psalmes and chapters of the scripture héere prescribed And if this booke of the forme of common prayer be agreable to Gods word and the vse of the reformed Churches howe is this our brethrens Learned Discourse which they call a breefe and playne declaration concerning the desires of all those faithful ministers that haue and doe seeke for the reformation of the Church of Englande agreeable to Gods word and to the vse of the reformed Churches and how do these our Brethren heere affirme that if this formall reading shoulde continue alwayes it shoulde redounde to the perpetuall decay of knowledge and hurt of the Church of God which as Bucer sayth is to the great encrease of knowledge and manifolde benefite of the Churche of God God What greater discouragement is there vnto Studentes then to see the rewardes of learning bestowed as commonly vpon the ignoraunt as vpon the Learned What encouragement is it to idlenesse and slouthfulnesse in them that be already in that vocation to beâold them that take no paine to liue in wealth and ease without punishment of their negligence And with what necessary consequence doth this hang vpon the continuance of an appointed forme of prayer Psalmes and Chapters May not the rewardes of learning be bestowed vpon Studentes and yet formall reading of these thinges still continue yea may not Students imploy their time more continually in their studies and haue the more leasure to study better about the expositioÌ of the Scriptures when the publike forme of prayer is already appointed and prescribed vnto them True it is that this is a great discouragement vnto Studentes to see the rewardes of Learning as commonlye bestowed vpon the ignoraunt as vpon the learned But woulde not euill Patrones doe so more then they doe except the superior authority of the Bishoppes did not restraine them and if it were so that all were equall and the bestowing of the rewardes of Learning lay in the election of the vnlearned and vulgar people woulde not the same discouragement as commonlye or more commonly fall out then And is this the waye to encourage Studentes vnder pretence that the rewardes of learning are not so well bestowed to spoyle and pull downe Bishoprikes Colleages Cathedrall Churches Glebes and Tythes c. And to take all this cleane away both from the vnlearned and learned too And are these men nowe so carefull of the greate discouragement of
when he saith that by the commandement of God hee tooke the vessel or instrument of a folish pastor or shepherd ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã signifieth vnto the Hebrues anie instrument we expound it a broken bagge But that is to much wrested I doubt not therefore but that by the instrument of the pastor Zacharie vnderstandeth the Ensignes or notable markes out of the which it might be gathered there was yet some pastor but in the meane season he calleth him a foolish pastor that we may knowe he was but a voide or a deceitfull visard The name therefore of pastor is heere placed by granting to it as the Scripture often speaketh and at this day we also grant now and then to the Papists the name of the Church and also we graunt to their horned or mitred Bishops the name of Pastors Thus doth Caluine apply this saying to the Papistes as the most part both of olde and newe interpreters apply the Pastor heere mentioned to Antichrist and the instrument of this foolish shepheard to the title of the Church But none that I read of to the prescript forme of godly praiers or to the reading of godly and learned homilies If our Brethren say that these thinges are not of themselues called the instrumentes of foolish Pastors but when they are alleaged to maintaine the ignorance of vnskilfull Pastors although this be not true altogether neyther yet were it true when these thinges are so alleaged as the scripture in some sense when it is wrested and alleaged to maintayne that which it is not spoken of nor appliable vnto is called a dead letter or rather not the Scripture at all and so may be called in suche a wrested and false sense the instrument of an Hereticall Pastor and of the Diuell himselfe or by any worse name and yet vsed and applyed in his true sense in which onely it is indéede the Scripture it is the holie woorde of God as also wee may saye the like of the sacrifices and other ceremonies of Gods lawe amonge the Iewes when they were vsed in their kindes and referred as types and figures to Iesus Christe they were the holy ordinaunces of the Lorde but being drawen from Christe whome they prefigured to maintayne the errour of opââ operatum as though they had vertue and grace in themselues to forgiue the sinnes of those that made the sacrifices or of those to whome they applyed them they are then called beggerly elementes and as it were the offering vp of dogges which God detesteth so if we shoulde commende the reading of prescript forme of holie and deuout prayers or of godlie and learned homilies to maintaine the ignorance of vnskilfull Pastors then indeede it might well be sayde that the holinesse and deuotion of those prayers turneth to sinne and superstition the godlinesse and learnednesse of those homilies might well be sayde by the iudgement of GOD to be no better than instrumentes of foolish Pastors though in these places cited God call them not so But since we alleage not nor vse any prescript reading or forme of prayer and homelies to maintayne the ignoraunce of vnskilfull Pastors but contrariwise to instruct both them and all others that here the same and so to bring them out of ignorance to godly and learned knowledge these odious and contemptuous termes can by no right bee iustlie applyed vnto them And as for the suffering of anye blinde guydes to leade the blinde If they be suche blinde ones indéede as Christe speaketh of it were not conuenient they should be suffered And if our Brethren would leaue these vnnecessarie striuings with suche guydes as be not blind but sée as well or better than theirselues those blinde guydes where any be might be better and more orderly remooued and other faithfull ouerseers placed in their steede The ministers of the Church are the salte of the earth If the salte be vnsauorie wherewith shall it be seasoned It is good for nothing but to be cast out and trooden downe of mens feete Let vs not therefore seeke politike shiftes to maintayne the vnsauorie salte which our Sauiour Christ pronounceth to be good for nothing but to be cast out By these and many other testimonies of the scripture it is as cleare as the sonne at noone dayes that it is the office and duetie of a Pastor both to be able and willing to teach his flocke and that no ignorant vnlerned person is to be admitted to that charge or reteyned if hee be crept in no more than a blind man is to be suffred in an office which must be executed only with the sight or a dumbe dogge to giue warning which can not barke or an Idol to haue the place of a man or a foole of a wise man or a wolfe of a shepheard or darkenesse in steede of light or salte that is vnsauorie to season withall We graunt no politike shifts should be fought nor vsed neyther hope we any are sought or vsed at least our Brethren haue not yet prooued any to be sought or vsed by the state of the Ecclesiasticall gouernement to maintayn such Ministers as may rightly be coÌpared vnto these termes Neither are godly and learned Homilies nor the prescribed forme of godly prayers any politike shiftes to maintaine them If they were our Brethren theirselues might be burdened to seeke also such politike shifts that doe likewise prescribe a forme of publike prayer Such Ministers as are here described blinde fooles Idiots Idols dumbe dogges wolues darkenesse salte vnsauorie ignorant and vnlearned persons where any vpon iust tryall are founde and conuicted so to be and of whom is no hope that they may become able and willing to teach their flocke it had béene better we confesse they had not béene admitted to that charge or beeing crept in are not to be reteyned Notwithstanding all such may orderly be remooued and yet the prescript forme of common prayer of godly learned homilies the superior authoritie of Bishops Archb. with the other discipline and gouernement of the Church of England already established may continue well inough in force without these byous odious and impertinent quarels of mainteyning any such vnlerned ministers But while we intreate of teaching to be the dutie of a Pastor we do not only mean publike preaching when the congregation is assembled but also priuate exhortation reprehension consolation of euery particuler person within his charge so often as neede shall require And that this is also the dutie of a faithfull Bishop S. Paule testifieth setting before the Elders of the Churche of Ephesus the example of his diligence which he would haue them to follow You know sayth he from the first day that I came into Asia after what manner I haue beene with you at all seasons Seruing the Lorde with all modestie c. And how I kept backe nothing that was profitable but haue shewed you and taught you
both openly and throughout euery house By which is manifest that the Pastor must not onely teach al his flocke openly but also he must instruct euery family priuately wheresoeuer he shall see it to be needefull or expedient Which dutie cannot be accoÌplished by a reading Minister Also in the 26. ver of the same chap. hee commendeth vnto the Elders a generall care of the whole flocke Take heede to your selues saith he and to the whole flocke Which care cannot be well or at all vndertaken except they be diligent to teach both all and euery one of their flocke as neede shall require Which thing also he willeth them once againe to obserue in his example verse 31. saying Therefore watch ye remembring that by the space of three yeares I ceased not night and day exhorting euerie one of you By these testimonies it is euident to see what diligence the holy Ghost requireth of Pastors in teaching both publikely priuately as well generally all their flocke as particulerly euery one of them He therfore that is vnapt to execute this part of a Pastors dutie is altogether vnmeete to whom gouernance of the flocke of God should be committed All this with these thrée sentences of S. Paul as our Breth here say are especially referred to priuate exhortation reprehension coÌsolatioÌ And we grannt this particuler and priuate teaching to be a part of a Pastors dutie and that he which is altogether vnapt to execute this parte of a Pastors dutie is altogether vnmeete to whom gouernance of the flocke of God should be committed But again we say that he which is apt to execute this part of a Pastors dutie and is diligent to teach al and euerie one priuately wheresoeuer he shall see it needefull expedient is not altogether vnmeete to whom the gouernance of the flocke of God should be committed Sith there are many both godly and learned Pastors that can doe do to their habilities execute accomplish these duties yet haue not the gift of publike preaching and therefore for their open actions why may they not the better oftner vse the reading of the prescribed forme of coÌmon prayer and other godly and learned homilies in the publike assemblies of the flocke and congregation In temporall affayres no man will committe the least charge that can be to such persons as he knoweth to be altogether vnmeete or vnable to aunswere vnto the charge shall we continue as we haue done hetherto to put theÌ in trust with the gretest charge that can be the saluatioÌ of so many thousand soules redeemed with the bloud of Christ whoÌ we knowe certainely to be able to do no part of a Pastors dutie sufficiently God forbid that we should still continue so lightly to esteeme so waightie a matter as though we accouÌted the bloud of Christ by which we are sanctified to be prophane and would contumeliously withstand the spirite of God Our Bretheren are all in extremes as though wee allowed the committing this office of Pastorship to those that are altogether vnmeete and to such whom we know certainely to be able to do no part of a Pastors dutie sufficiently which to doe is a great and iust offence But we defend one they impugne another Albeit vnder the quarell against that other they meane to wring out indéede both the one and the other and not only the méere insufficient Pastor but the most sufficient As for vs we onely speake in defence and that but by the way of tolleration for a time of such as are not altogether vnmeete but willing and able to doe some part or the more parte and that sufficiently of a Pastors office though not all or all though not in such sorte as other better learned that can publikely interprete and apply the scriptures to the circumstances of times places persons occasions and in publike preaching haue the gift learnedly and effectually to exhort to comfort to admonish to reprehende the hearers and to confute the gainesayers although they be yet able to doe these thinges better in priuate And in publike they followe the formes set downe and appointed of godly and learned homilies Not but that we heartily wish as well as they that all Pastors could as fréely and learnedly preach as can the best at least better than they nowe can And the godlie Bishoppes and Prelates doe I hope endeuour themselues in their charges to exercise the Pastors thereunto Neither doe we allowe that the Pastorall charge should bee committed vnto anie that in anye respecte is insufficient But if it were before committed vnto them except they be altogether vnmeete and no hope of anie sufficiencie in them we thinke not that by and by they must bée thrust out by head and shoulders But that they may bee permitted to doe what they can doe and be trayned vp with such exercises of learning as whereby they may waxe more able And in the meane time godlie and learned Preachers to trauell the oftner in such places the better to supplie that which wanteth and hereafter not to committe the charge but to such onely as shall bee more sufficient to discharge it And this not onely we like and agrée vnto but I trust yea I knowe in many places so farre as conueniently may be doone it is with all diligence and care alreadie prouided for and may well be doone the Ecclesiasticall gouernement of the Churche of Englande notwithstanding standing aâ it doth But necessitie you will aunswere hath no lawe This necessitie wee haue aunswered before to consist in two pointes In lacke of lyuings and lack of learned men The first we haue shewed ought to be no lette no not of an houre if the other want could so soone be supplied And both must of necessitie be prouided for in time or else wee testifie before God and his holie Angels that they which neglect or withstand this prouision shal be guiltie of the bloud of al theÌ which perish through the default of teaching in the whole realme This is a good aunswere being vnderstoode in his right sense that here againe we are presupposed to make necessitie hath no law Our BrethreÌ aunswere hereunto by distinction of the thinges wherein this necessitie doth consist to wite in these 2. points in lacke of liuinges and lacke of learned men Well then our Brethren here graunt when they can thus properly distinguish the same that there is a necessitie in this matter But to the first they aunswere that they haue shewed it ought to be no let no not of an howre Nowe verily then it is a gentle necessitie that so soone can dispatch so great a matter But for the other necessitie of learned men they coÌfesse it to be harder saying if the other want could so soone be supplyed If then a longer time must of necessitie be required for the supply of learned men how then
foorth their heartes shoulde fayle them And many other toward Laborers that on the Lordes calling were but late entred into this Haruest begin to stande in a mammering and drawe backe except a number of these our too forwarde brethren And therefore indéede we had néede on all handes without ceasing moste earnestly to pray to God to thrust foorth moe laborers into his haruest and to comfort them that be thrust in by him least both Laborers haruest all waxe thinner and more backwarde than it dooth Praie Praie Now vpon all these foresaid meanes our brethren make their conclusion saying And in the meane time till God shall blesse vs with a sufficient number of learned Pastors to take some extraordinary and temporall order for ouer-seeing the Churches that although they cannot be all sufficientlie enstructed and gouerned yet so many shall not be altogether destitute of all knowledge and spirituall gouernement as there are nowe in this moste corrupt state of the Churche in which wee haue hetherto continued These are very hard spéeches against the present state of the Churche of Englande and in truth by no meanes iustifiable that it is a moste corrupt state of the Church and so hath hetherto continued For if it be now in a most corrupt state then was it not more corrupt in the time of all the popish superstitions If wee nowe as our brethren in their Preface to this Learned discourse confesse maintaine the true and holie faith and haue the Gospell freely preached as in this learned discourse they also graunt are we so corrupt as when manifest errors in doctrine and faith were maintained and the preaching of the Gospell suppressed and persecuted And yet we debarre them not altogether of the title of the Church though a Church exceeding much corrupted Or doth the most corruption of the Church lie in matters or rather in formes of discipline Admitting we haue a discipline that were corrupted notwithstanding professing the holy truth in all pointes of faith and doctrine The Saxon Churches haue in some pointes the like discipline to that our brethren contend for and yet in some materiall pointes of the Lordes supper they hold as grosse if not farre grosser errors and corruption than doe the Papists And is our state being in that and all other pointes of doctrine most sincere more corrupt than theirs Which I speake not as insulting vpon them but with pitie and reuerence but onely to note our brethrens vnthankefull not acknowledging of our exceeding more sincere and farre better estate than theirs and manie others as the Grecians Armenians Indians Aethiopians c. which are yet acknowledged to be the the Churches of Christ albeit all differ in discipline and are not free from errors euen in doctrine which God be praised we are by our breth owne confession But why doe our Brethren thus exclaime on the estate of our Church as a most corrupt state Forsooth because as they saie and doe imagine there are many that are altogether destitute of all knowledge and spirituall gouernment If they meane Papists and wicked worldlings where are not some and that too many intermingled in the Church of GOD And so there may be many we graunt lamenting it among vs but not of vs. And the more I feare by reason of these garboyles among our selues But if they bée the children of God and the true Church indéede and haue yéeres of vnderstanding I hope nay I am sure there is none no not one such as is altogether destitute of all knowledge and spirituall gouernment set a side naturall Idiotes which are as infants and without discretion Nay not the most of the worldlie hypocrites are altogether destitute of all knowledge of God and of his word and of all partes of spirituall gouernment although they knowe not all pointes or manie pointes not so exactlie as other doe or as their selues should doe I speake not this to defende anie mannes default and corruption in these thinges but to shew that this is a greate deale more aggrauated than eyther needeth or is true or than our Brethren haue anie iust cause to accuse so hainouslie the whole state of the Church of England to bee a most corrupted state But sée nowe howe our malecontented Brethren finding such a grieuous fault of this most corrupt state of the Church though they might haue all these meanes that they haue heere deuised to reforme the same graunted vnto them yet are they faine in the end to confesse that this their Learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment cannot take place but that they must take some extraordinarie and temporall order for ouerseeing of the Churches in the meane time vntill GOD shall blesse vs with a sufficient number of learned pastors So that they cannot for all these meanes helpes prouisions supplyes desires or anie other thing that they are able with all their learned heads consulting together imagine howe their Ecclesiasticall regiment should be set vp And yet wée must first downe out of hande and awaye with that Ecclesiasticall regiment that we haue cre euer not onelie theyrs shall come in place but or euer wee haue or can yet deuise how wée shall deale in the meane time till GOD shall blesse vs with a sufficient number of learned pastors Which when this till and this sufficient number will be filled vp to our Brethrens contentation is not héere limited by them nor we are able to coniecture But coulde not our Brethren haue forséene this before which héere now after all their debating and deuising they beginne to sée and are driuen to confesse And how then must all Pastors that bee not learned preachers be presentlie turned out and no longer retayned Or if they may lawfullie for a time which with all when it shall stint is vncertaine continue still and bée retained how then are these thinges either true or tollerable in them Shall wee tollerate such notorious and most corrupt wickednesse as they crie out vpon till God shall blesse vs with a sufficient number of learned pastors And till GOD shall thus blesse vs what extraordinarie and temporall order of ouerseers of the Churches will God blesse if hee haue flatlie forbidden all other than that onelie order which our Brethren pretend that God so straightlie hath commanded Or what extraordinarie or temporall order can or dare anie or all the Church auouch or presume to take vpon them to appoint or tollerate anie time If the ouerseers that our Brethren vrge and the orders of Ecclesiasticall gouernment which they set downe bee of GOD commaunded for ordinarie and perpetuall to all ages and Churches either they woulde haue vs wilfullie to transgresse Gods commaundement without anie speciall warrant on presumption of their dispensation for a time or else they must néedes graunt and that is indéede the verie truth which they dare not for shame openlie confesse although of fine force they are constrayned
Church For some of these and such like meanes it hath pleased God alreadie to graunt that they may and doe take place and woulde take more place were it not for their importune hindering as I sayd before not so much of the open aduersaries of the Gospell as of our owne Brethren that fauour and professe it and yet preposterouslie doe stop the course thereof As for some of these meanes heere deuised it hath pleased God in his greate wisedome not to graunt them And therefore when we sée the will and graunt of God alreadie it were fitter we applied our wâlls to his than to wish hiâ contrarie to his ordinance to become appliable vnto our wils And wheâe our Brethren would haue God graunt these their petitâons to take place by the high authoritie of our dreade Soueraigne the Queenes Maiestie sith we manifestlie sée that by her Maiesties high authoritie GOD hath graunted such good successe to his Gospell and repaired his Church by such lawfull means of discipline as God hath both allowed and blessed which withall is by her Maiesties high authoritie established and confirmed amongst vs what a tentation is this to God not to bee content but to craue that he would graunt other new meanes And what obedience is this to her Maiesties high authoritie If her Maiestie herein haue any authoritie at all why do not we obey it If her Maiesties authoritie héere be high why doe we abase and bring it lowe If shee bee our dread Soueraigne why dreade we not thus to ouerthwart al her lawes and ordinances and without all dreade to contemne them and to cast forth such contumelious and slanderous spéeches on all the state of the Church to be most corrupt If her Maiestie be the Soueraigne that is the Supreame gouernor under Christ of this portion of the Church How doth not this defamatioÌ more blemish her Maiesties gouernment thaÌ al these faire spéeches can suffer to salue it And how call they her Maiestie Soueraigne and not acknowledge her soueraigntie or supremacie And if we inioy this coÌfortable peace vnder her most gracious gouernmeÌt why do not we coÌtinue it and be thankfull to God and to her Maiestie for it Why disturbe wée it and make it vncomfortable To conclude if it be a most gracious gouernment how is the state of the Church being gouerned vnder her Maiestie most corrupted Can most gracious and most corrupt agrée together What fellowship hath righteousnesse saith Saint Paule 2. Cor. 6.14 with vnrighteousnesse and what communion hath âight with darknesse what concord hath Christ with Belial Or hath her Maiestie no gouernment at all ouer the Church but onelie ouer the Realme and ciuile pollicie Are these tearmes then giuen her as a méere ciuile Prince or is her Maiestie acknowledged indeede the supreame gouernour in all Ecclesiasticall causes in the Church of England If she be how doth shee looke vnto her gouernment in the Church of England the state of the Church standing most corrupt These things hang together like Germaines lippes Who seeth not that they speak cleane contradictions in this stammering While they woulde thus plaie on both handes and giue onelie these fayre titles to her Maiestie for fashion sake and to auoide suspition or to winne fauour but if in verie déede they meant as they saie they woulde neuer thus impugne the established gouernment orders lawes and proceedings of her Maiestie They confesse that vnder her most gracious gouernment the time hath alreadie prosperouslie passed and yet they inferre vnder hand that it hath passed so vnprosperouslie that in lesse than halfe the time they dare ieopard their liues if they might haue their deuises broght to passe that the necessitie of learned Preachers shall bee so well supplied as wee shall haue no great cause to complaine for lacke of them And yet withall they saie her Maiesties raigne is most honourable and glorious Which if it be then haue they no cause to complain But they complaine of these things with great outcries and saie they haue great cause to complaine as though her Maiesties raigne were so dishonourable and ignominious that it nothing tended the honour and glorie of God which they saie they onelie seeke in this their Ecclesiasticall regiment So that in commending her Maiesties most honourable and glorious raigne what meane they but of such an externall honour and glorie of the world as little or nought respecteth the honour and glorie of the Lorde This is not well done of our Brethren thus to slander her Maiesties gouernment and the whole state of the Church of England vnder these faire and coulourable spéeches least our Breth might séeme in anie shew to come néere to those dissembling hypocrites whome Dauid so grieuouslie complaineth on Psal. 54. saying If mine enimie had defamed me I could haue borne it and if mine aduersarie had exalted himself against me I would haue hidden me from him But it was thou O man euen my companion my guide and my familiar which diddest eate sweete meate together with mâ yea wâ walled together in the house of God as companions And shall it be sayde of those that not onelie liue in one Realme and are or should be gouerned by one lawe vnder one most gracious Soueraigne yea her Maiestie and wee and all vnder one Iesus Christ in profession of our religion and of one Church of God that we deale thus one against another and that as Dauid there saich verse 21. The wordes of his mouth were softer than butter and yet warre in his heart his wordes âere more gentle than oyle and yet they were swoordes Now as these things beséeme not the âhildren of God so is not this commendable in our Brethren that to set the better face of zeale vppon these foresayde spéeches thus tempered with no lesse gall than honie they offer thus freshlie to ieopard their liues that this which they promise and imagine shal be done in lesse than halfe the time that is alreadie passed Well may our Brethren blemish the time that is alreadie passed as not verie prosperouslie passed though for a shewe they saie so but to determine De futurâ contingenti for that which may happe to come to passe hereafter and to prescribe it a time saue that they presume of her Maiesties clemencie not to take the aduantage of the forfaiture they might peraduenture hazarde too farre theyr best ioyntes if theyr happe were not better in this bargaynes euent than eyther theyr learning or their wisedome in the bargens making But what good lucke so euer would betide them to haue their desires graunted or their hope and promise come to passe yet their words sauour so suspitiouslie that for all this they would not holde themselues fullie satisfied For when they saie The necessitie of learned Pastors shall be so well supplied as we shall haue no no great cause to complaine for lacke of them they séeme in these words
read the confessions the collects or briefe publike prayers in the Mattens and Euensong they are said But our brethren demaunde Are there not many that had much rather heere a chaunted mattins and Euensong then a godly and learned Sermon Uerily in my opinion to aunswere vpright I thinke there are not many nor anie meaning godly zealous protestants learned or vnlearned that so had rather I graunt of other sorts there may bee many that so had rather But doth this followe héereupon that although there bee many which had rather heare the one than the other that therefore wée should take the one or the other cleane away may they not rather sithe both of them in their degrées are lawfull and good heare both the one the other too or if they can not come to heare the one should they therfore refuse the other also so heare neither But this is that which they charge them for yea say our brethren they frequent the one and refuse the other If any so frequent the hearing of the diuine seruice that hee refuse to heare a godly and learned sermon when he may come to the hearing of it he is greatly to blame But then let our brethren looke to it on the other side how they their sâlues will escape blamelesse which when they may heare both the ordinary diuine seruice of publike prayer a godly learned Sermon too will vnder pretence of hearing the sermon refuse to heare the ordinary diuine seruice of the publike prayer Nowe for proofe héereof that many among vs are faultie in frequenting the diuine seruice and refusing the sermon they say Let Cathedrall Churches c. bee an example where you shall see a great number that tarry while the Seruice is sung but depart as soone as the sermon beginneth To proue these instances alleaged Cathedrall Churches muste bee the example For what place they meane by this c. wee may rather coniecture than they dare vtter And it may bee that some doe so And yet if their so dooing bee so ordinarie that they be noted therof noted thereof they are called into question for the same But howsoeuer it may be in some it is not so I am sure in all Cathedrall Churches but rather the cleane contrary When they come to the Cathedral church not so much to heare the Seruice as the Sermon For they heard the Seruice before in their Parish Churches Which done they come to the Cathedrall church that almoste after the Seruice done there also vnto the Sermon which at the least euery sonday is there preached And this I take to be the order in the most part of Cathedrall and Collegiate or such other principal Ch. or chappels throughout the Realme Where ye shal not sée many at the Seruice soong but towards the ending of the seruice or so soone as the sermoÌ begnnieth in flocks they draw thither yea there is order takeÌ if they would not that they should And therfore this is quite contrary But our brethr to help their foorth procéede to the Organes While the Organes pipe some are drawne with the swetnesse of musike to come vp but while the preacher cryeth out continue beneath and in laughter or brawling be lowder than he often times If the piping of the Organes drawe them with the sweetnesse of the musick to come vp to heare the diuine seruice then is there yet some good vse thereof except it be better to driue them from it than to draw them to it If they continue beneath while the Preacher cryeth out then in the most cathedrall Churches as likewise generally in Parish Churches the Preacher for the most part comming downe vnto them they may heare him not the worse but the better and hee may crie not the lowder but the lower the most part of the Sermons being preached in the bodye of the Church among the people And if in some fewer places he preach in the Quyre then shall ye not lightly haue many beneath in the body of the Churche especiallie of such as come to the Church to heare diuine Seruice One Church indéede there is that I haue séene and which I take our brethren especially meane where many resorte partly but for a thorough passage and partly to walke vp and downe almost all day long spending the time beneath in talking or bargaining or other worldly matters but these do so as much at the diuine seruice as at any Sermon in the Quéere aboue But commonly there the sermon is preached in the Church-yard and that with a great assembly of other Parishes where they had no Sermon yea though they had a Sermon many of them in their owne or in other Parishes besides And al that while that the Sermon is in that churchyarde none is permitted to walke or to abide in the Cathedrall Churche And if the Sermons that are in the Church were so prouided also I speak but my opinion and vnder correction that they were made in the bodye of the Church and the walkers vp and downe by some good particuler order were prohibited there is no good person that frequenteth the diuine seruice but would as wel like of it as our brethren And good preachers thât are conformable and obedient to the Ecclesiasticall gouernement lawes established of the Church of England and that say their selues the prescribed forme of publike prayers and diuine seruice haue oftentimes called on the reforming of it Which if it were done yet may all this Ecclesiasticall gouernment superiority of Bishops office of Pastors administration of sacraments and prescribed forme of diuine seruice continue notwithstanding as intier and forcible as it doth And yet the body beneath of the Cathedrall Church is so separated from the Quier aboue that the actions and assemblies in the Quire neither at the seruice nor sermons nor Lectures is disturbed by any passengers beneath saue that their vnnecessary and idle walking all that while is offensiue I hope it wil be remedied But in generall for all Cathedrall Churches Collegiat Paroeciall or any other if any in laughter or brawling be lowder or vse any voluntary misdemeanor whatsoeuer in the Church especially to the disturbance of the diuine seruice or of the sermon as they were better away thaÌ there so there are lawes penalties already prouided for the chastisment of such disordered persons If they be not executed the fault is in the officers And me thinkes our brethren their selues would become better officers fitter to be made Church-wardens Syde-men or Sextens to look to the execution of the Lawes that in this behalfe are already made than that they can or do set downe any better new lawes to mend this matter in this their Learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernement But now vppon these abuses where any such are thinking vtterly to deface our publike forme of diuine seruice they héere disclose the effect of their meaning in their former examples
Scripture Which is not ascribed so much to any other starres although they bée bigger farre than the moone is These vaine and friuolous arguments hath this French Bishop which yet both in this point and in all the French antiquities is one of the moste industrious of them all and straineth all his wits to recommend and set out this Salike Lawe wresting and writhing of the scriptures How much better in my opinion and with farre more modesty though otherwise he be also a great fauourer of the French estate aboue England doth Iacobus Meyer the Chronicler of Flaunders write of this matter Lib. 12. fol. 136 saying In the yeare of our Lorde 1335. Easter day being the 16. of Aprill the English warre began which of all other continued longest and was moste cruell And which helde out with truces betweene whiles aboue 100. yeares Which might rather be called a Domesticall sedition than a Warre The Christian common-weale is one kingdome and one house Whatsoeuer warres are made therein are made with great blemish Neither if we shoulde say the trueth they are Warres but most reprochfull seditions King Edward opposed to the Salike Law of the French the diuine Bibles which call the woman to inheritance in defect of the issue male Certaine there were in Fraunce that misliked not those argumentes of Edward Which men being put to death Edward determined to pursue his right although with long and hard warre and with most mightie force of armes to extinguish that Heathenish custome of the French The Salij are sayde while they yet liued among the Scithians to haue ordrined and kept that lawe These Salikes in the time of the decay of the Romane Empire got to themselues the surname of Frankes and began to be called Salij Francici Salike Frankons As also the Frisian Frankes the Saxon Frankes that is to saie the free Frisons the free Saxons to wit those that could bee no longer compelled to paie tributes These Salik FraÌks after that they pierced first vnto the riuer of the Rhen and after that euen to the riuer of Sequana or Seine albeit that they also became Christian yet renued they and tooth and naile euen to this daie they haue held that lawe But that this is not so wee haue alreadie shewed euen by Caenalis the chiefest vrger of it Howbeit not without great detrimeÌt of Christian piety as me thinks And here he noteth in the margine The Lawe Salike hurtfull to the Christian common weale For if these laying aside their hatred and the superstition of that Lawe had nowe ioyned to themselues the riches of Englande theÌ had the French the English the Scots the Flemmish and the Burgundians growen together into one kingdome and with so mightie a power had easilie destroied that barbarousnesse of Mahomet which continued in Spaine euen almost vntill our times But after that I knowe not by what euill spirit of the French the French haue alwaies attempted to beare rule among other men all things haue bene troubled all things haue beene full of discomfort all things lamentable all thinges seditious Wee haue since that time seene peace no where no where quietnesse England was seene to offer the occasion that was most to be wished for but that FreÌch blockishnesse and infelicitie could not take hold thereon being sotted by that Salike lawe And againe Fol. 148. lamenting the greate slaughter at the battaile of Chertsey where hee telleth how the French King called King Edward a Marchant of wooll and King Edward called him the Marchant and author of the Salike Lawe hee sayth The Frenth men alleadge certaine fonde causes of so great a slaughter But I thinke there ought none other to bee alleadged than wee haue before mencioned that is to witte the frinolous right of the French men which is full of controuersie vncertaine and that I may not saie false verilie most farre vnworthie of so great bloudshed I suppresse herein his vnreuerent tearmes of Queene Isabel by whom the right of this title came Onelie I note his iudgement of this pretended Salike Lawe Which sith that all the French writers so earnestlie vrge to stoppe there with the title of the Kings and Queenes of England not one-onelie then in the time of ignoraunce and superstition raigning but that also in this cléere light of the Gospell and manifestation of Gods Lawe euen these notable and excellent learned professours of the Gospell in the French refourmed Churches Caluine and Danaeus sauour yet so much of this French faction that vpon the occasion of womens publike speaking in the congregation they cannot refraine themselues from this humour of their Countrie but must also most vnnecessarilie cast forth these intemperate spéeches and disputations against the right and title of womens publike regiment and that some also among our selues snatching at their arguments with more gréedie newfanglednesse than with aduised confideration haue likewise to disturbe and indaunger our state attempted the like inuectiues I therefore thought it not amisse both for the playner manifestation of the right of that title which I haue heard many desire to bee discussed further than any yet hath done although I meddle not here with titles anie farther than defensiuely for womens right of gouernment to iustifie against all slanders the right of our Princes title for euery mans fuller satisfaction in these questioÌs upon these foresaid occasions to be somwhat the larger though withal crauing pardon I confesse to be som what also the more tedious in this long processe herevpoÌ But tedious or not the more pains was mine and they that haue lust and leasure to reade it may or may not at their owne liking I regarding chieflie the satisfying of the curious in these daies at least the staying of the simple from this curiousnesse am driuen my selfe to be rather ouer curious than ouer negligent in slubbering ouer a slight slender answere To returne nowe therefore to Danaeus further argument Of which matter also saith Danaeus procéeding on the proues of his foresayd question in his treatie on 1. Tim. 2 verse 12. folio 84. the examples are extant in Semiramis the Queene of the Assyrians Candace of the Aethiopians Act. 8. verse 27. Cleopatra of the Aegyptians vnder Augustus and Zenobia a most valyant woman vnder Adrian the Emperour To the Empire of which Zenobia many Christian Churches also did obey This argument séemeth to tende to the confirmation of that hée spake before that in Spaine England Scotland and diuerse other regions it was a right and honest matter for a woman to haue the chiefe gouernment ouer men But Danaeus dooth it so coldlie and brings out onelie héere these foure examples of Heathen women and those not of the choisest neither which among the Heathen women hee might haue founde that hée rather séemeth in so slender defending it to oppugne it But let vs take the view of these his examples that hee alleadgeth And first for Semiramis
tyrants such wilfull and vnskilful rulers such childish and effeminate persons of all theÌ infidels heauy plagues curses and scourges both to Gods people and to all the romaine Monarchie were the supreme gouernors why shoulde it not take place when the supreme gouernors are not Women or children in such vitious senses but onely in nature without all these vices and all other infirmities sufficiently prouided for and supplied but if these wordes of God by the Prophet Esay are to be vnderstood literally then did God performe the same vnto them literally And then it followeth of necessity that the people of God had not onely men but children nor children onely but Women also to be their lawful princes which is the thing that Danaeus before denied If nowe againe this that was threatned héere as a token of a curse do not debarre the right and lawfulnesse of their estate what shall we say then to those where God of his surpassing might and goodnesse so prouideth for these infirmities of nature that he turneth all this dreadfull token of a curse into the comfortable féeling of a blessing for dare Danaeus make a perpetual rule of this sentence that it shall alwayes stande for a token of Gods curse vnto the people where children or Women are their Princes No he dare not But streight way correctes his former saying and sayth Howbeit that same is not perpetuall for oftentimes Kinges beeing children also as for example Solomon and Josias haue moste holily and moste happily reigned and the empire of them was enriched of God withall kinde of good thinges The same may be sayde of certain Women and of their Empire whome the Lord hath in maruellous manner blessed as appeareth out of diuerse histories Ha goe too then this is another manner of matter For recompence of our former tokens of cursing and misery heere are better effectes of happinesse and blessing in the gouernment both of Children and of women neither as a rare but as an often experience put in practise and that among the Lords people But what is this to the lawfulnesse of these parties gouernment No is In-déede as Christe saith Math. 5.45 God maketh his Sunne to arise on the euill on the good sendeth reignÄ on the iust vniust the wicked many times prosper reigne in that which the worlde estéemeth happines But when as Danaeus so placeth it héeré that holines goeth before happinesse commeth after when their Empire is enriched of God with al kind of good things with the spiritual riches of Gods kingdome if al this may truly be said of childrens gouerment and the same may be sayde also of womens gouernement doth not this importe that their gouernment must néedes be lawfull And as for childrens gouernement these two here by Danaeus alleaged are notable examples For God himselfe giuing him his name appointed Salomon both before his brethren that were his elders who otherwise by nature should haue had the kingdome before him but that God beyonde all their expectations and aspiring aduaunced him vnto it when he was but about 17. yeares of age and did God all this and was it not lawefull And as for Iosias he was but 8. yeares old when he began to reign And yet was his raigne in that age so acceptable to God that he was prophecied vpon by name almost 200. yeare before he was borne 1. Reg. 13. ver 2. And Ioas was yet younger thaÌ was Iosias who was worst in his old yeares wheÌ he ought to haue béene best and best when hee was young and is therefore commended to do that which was good in the sight of the Lorde all his time while Ioiada the priest did teach him 2. Reg. 12. ver 2. Azaria began his raigne at 16. yeares of age 2. Reg. 15. ver 2. and is also commended to haue done vprightly in the sight of the Lord. Which is vnderstood only of his younger yeares Manasses was 12. yeares old when he began to raigne 2. Reg. 21. ver 1. who though he did euill in the sight of the Lord yet was his raigne as lawefull as the others Now as Danaeus confesseth that the same may be sayde of some women and of their gouernement which is inough to conclude all the matter for we desire no more to be graunted but euen thus much and what more can be sayde of the gouernement of men For who can iustifie all mens gouernement either that they holde the same by right or rightly administer that they came rightly by Yea least we should take this that he sayth of some women to be of some such for whom he might pretend exception of example as that they had some speciall calling as Debora although we haue heard of other also in the scripture and that in commendation of whom we can alleage no such speciall calling but that might well be drawen to an example of our owne times and state and so do his wordes also importe that this some may bee sayde as spoken of some women of this age when not only he sayth as appeareth by diuerse histories as we shall after warde God willing sée how the state of Christendome is not vnfurnished of manie examples neuerthelesse for the more manifest profe hereof he beginneth with our state in Englande as an honorable and present testimonie of the same saying Verily of thâ most renowmed Queene of England Elizabeth which now most happily reygneth it may be sayde that the whole compasse of the worlde hath seene nothing at any âime more happie or more to be wished for than is her reigne The more we consider this testimonie of Danaeus of the which both our selues especially and other forrain regions not a little finde the profe and féele the coÌfort the more are we all bounde to glorifie almightie God and to thinke speak well of her Ma. gouernmeÌt not only to be lawful but also most necessarie expedient for Gods Church And to pray to God to blesse her Maiesty more more and to defend her and vs by her to whom he hath giuen in these troublesome and daungerous dayes so happie a reigne ouer his people a gouernmeÌt so much to be wished after And the more are we also bound both to loue honour her and to obey her gouernment in her lawes And this beeing true which Danaeus here confesseth then how vnthankfully yea how vntruly doe our Brethren report to the world that the state of the Church of England is a disordred deformed corrupt estate As we haue heard their hard spéeches besides other that write a great deale harder Howe doe these here agrée with Danaeus If her Maiestie reigneth most happily and that in all these foresayd happie thinges how reigneth she not lawfully And how vnlawfully then yea how vnhappily doe our Brethren oppose themselues against her so happie reigne I graunt they doe it not
nothing can be spoken more absurd But farre greater errours haue sprong out of the same fountaine First that by those authors it was beleeued that the Salike lawe did appertaine to the publik right of a Citie and Empire or gouernmeÌt of the hereditarie successioÌ of a kingdoÌe For the Tables of the Salike law were found and brought forth to light not many yeres hence By the inscription of which it is knowen that they were first written and set out about the age of Pharamund But in those ther is extant this one Chapter Title 62. No portion of the inheritance of the Salike land passeth to a woman but this the mans sexe doth obtaine that is the sonnes succeede in the same inheritance But where among the nephues their children after long time contention is raised De allode terrae of the own-ship or right of the land Non per stirpes sed per capita diuidatur Let it bee diuided not by the stockes for issues but by the polles The like Lawe is extant apud Ripnaries Tit. 58. and also apud Angliâs Tit. 7. Where it is so far off froÌ that that it was ordained of the inheritances of kingdoÌes that those laws appertain not so much to the successions of fees but onlie of ownships or the things that are ones owne although indeed a dowrie was assigned vnto the woman out of those ownships Thus saith Hottoman of this Salike lawe whereof the French erre so foulie and make such a boasting As for that he addeth Howsoeuer it be first this is euident that although there be extant neither anie Chapter of the lawe Salike nor yet of the French lawe by which women are put backe from the inheritance of the kingdome notwithstanding the institutions and manners of the nation kept with such a consent of ages holde the force of a lawe written This is vltimum refugium and the strongest string that Hottoman when all is done can finde to vphold all that controuersie withall âut sith that string hath bene so often crackt as we haue seene alreadie by the French owne Chronicles both Hottoman and Bodinus may be now dismissed in good peace for that matter and likewise Danaeus with all due reuerence By whole Caluines Questions about womens gouernment we have discoursed out thus far from our Brethrens Learned discourse upon occasion to answere our Brethren for that they note of S. Paules reprouing the vncomly disorder of womens speaking in the Church of the Corinthians By the which searching after my plaine and ordinarie manner what Caluine Beza and Danaeus said on this matter and at the first chop méeting with such their foresaid arguments I thought it verie necessarie albeit Impar congressus Achilli Troilus yet thus farre forth to oppose my selfe euen to so famous men in these matters Which I haue the rather hazarded my selfe vnto onely least anie scruples of these inuectiues against Womens gouernment might sticke in anie of our Brethr. mindes by mistaking the Apostles words through ouermuch credit of these most famous writers I meane speciallie Caluine Beza and Danaeus If our Brethren shall saie that all this was the more néedlesse sith they which make this Learned discourse doe acknowledge her Maiesties publike and supreame gouernment in the Church of England Would God they did so as they ought to do Then indéed we should not néed these questions but ioyne together in al dutiful obedience vnder God to her Maiesties lawes in these matters But to our grief we sée yea to our shame al the world cries out theron it is not so It is but nice daliance We grant a forme of wordes as we saw both in Caluine a Danaeus we impugne the matter Nowbeit because to our greater griefe we shall yet sée this more more throughout all this Learned Discourse Let vs now returne heare agains our Brethren the Learned Discourses The argument of the 10. Booke THe 10. Booke concerning the Ceremonies of our Church for the fruitfulnesse vse and vrging of them Wether confirmation of children by the Bishop and the churching or solemne thankesgiuing of women after child-birth be vtterlie to be reiected Whether the dead should be buried without anie ceremonie forme of seruice or sermon or presence of the Pastor c. For hot contentions in small matters of a true pastors dutie about the Churches constitutions Of the Pastors authoritie in common with the elders Of the power of order and iurisdiction Of Timothies authoritie of the gouerning Elders authoritie How vnnecessarie and daungerous to the state and magistrates the erecting of these supposed Seniors would be Of the remouing all vsurped authoritie What kind of mastership and office of being greatest Christ allowed and of tyrannizing in the Church Whether all the rules of gouernment and pollicy be set downe and prescribed in Gods worde as the dostrine of faith and precepts of morall life are Whether a Bishop haue any separate authoritie froÌ others or the Apostles had any such authoritie and whether Paul deliuered anie such to Timothie Whether his rules to Timothie be generall rules to all Bishops of their authoritie and manner of ordaining Ministers iudging of them Of Paul and Barnabas elections and ordeinings Whether separate authoritie inferre sole and absolute Monarchicall authoritie What regiment Christ left to his church and of his sentence Matth. 18. ver 15. for the consent of the household seruants and whether we should consent vnto our Breth or our brethren to vs in these ceremonies Whether all that consent haue authority that equal Of the difference of the churches and of the Persons authorities in them BY which it is euident that Saint Paules wordes are wreasted of some cleane contrarie to his meaning to make him a patrone of idle if not hurtfull ceremonies maintained more vpon will than reason or graunted of Gods word vnder the coulour of order and decencie not onelie with neglect but also with great hinderance of Gods building by spoiling the Church of so many learned pastors TO applie Saint Paules sentence Let all things bee done according to order to the patronage of hurtfull or of idle ceremonies I graunt were an euident wreasting of his wordes But this would be proued and not sayd onelie that we so doe Wlée haue seene and proued too euidentlie howe our Brethren are ouerbolde to wreast Saint Paules wordes otherwise than either he spake or meant As for vs we maintaine no idle Ceremonies much lesse hurtful If anie such shall be shewed we are as readie as anie our Brethren in all humble and dutiful manner to desire the abolishing of them But wée hope all suth are by law and order alreadie remoued Would God our Br. would remeÌber by whose indeauour they are taken awaie and in thankfulnesse be contented For what ceremonies can they proue are by anie authoritie commaunded to be vsed that are idle and hurtfull Haue we anie at al
also to the repentance of their sinnes and to a firme hope of the blessed resurrection and heauenly life and also to the earnest studie and care of the life to come Which verily is placed in the mortification of the old Adam and restoring the new Whereunto also prayers are to be ioyned for true repentance and confirmation of faith and also for the blessed resurrection both of the dead and of them that be present To conclude almes also are to be giuen Yea Caluine himselfe in his Epistle to the Monsbelgardians Epist. 51 wherein he telleth them what he himselfe would doe if he susteyned their person when he commeth to buriall writeth thus In the buriall of the dead I would haue this moderatioÌ to be adhibited that the corps shold not be caried into the Church but straight vnto the Church-yard there also would I haue an exhortation to be made that the companie should acknowledge that which should be spoken in the present matter of the funerall This manner were not much to be disallowed As for the ringing of the bell I would not haue you stifly reclaime against it if it may not be obtayned that the Prince would remitte it Not that I allow it but that I thinke it not a matter worthie of contention Thus writeth Caluine what he would and what he would not haue to choose about the buriall of the dead Yea euen of ringing also though hee mislike it yet would he haue no contention for it but modestly referreth it to the Princes order Neither disalloweth he the buriall in the Church-yarde As for an exhortation to be made it is the speciall thing that he would haue obserued at a buriall Which exhortation if it be a sermon as the English Church in Geneua allowed by Caluine doth also prescribe the same then may that part of prayer which is thankesgiuing be vsed at the buriall of the dead Yea and the other part of petition though not for the dead yet for the liuing for the resurrection of liuing dead both may wel be are alwaies vsed in sermons and a good part of our Brethrens sermons are most what spent in the conceauing of prayers and petitions Now if either exhortations or sermons be to be made at the funeralles of the dead who should rather pronounce or make them than the Pastor And if this be the order of the Church of England in Geneua approued by Caluin who also wisheth it in other Churches haue our Brethr. here in Englande any iust cause now to mislike it If they thinke Geneua the best or any right reformed Church for I presse them not here with the Protestantes Churches in Germanie who haue set foorth diuerse funerall sermons and Spangelberges booke is of the same matter nor with the Churches in Heluetia and Brandmillerus booke composed of 180. funerall sââââns how can our Brethren say as here they doe that it is thought good to the best and right reformed Churches to burie their dead reuerently without any ceremonies of praying or preaching at them Me thinkes yet of twaine the Englishe order in Geneua approued by Caluine is farre better than this new English order of our Brethren Zanchius in his confession of Christian religion cap. 25. de Eccl. militantis gubernatione Aphoris 33. treating of the buriall of the dead writeth on this wise As for their bodies we doubt not but that they are to be brought with honour to the sepulcher euen as our Churches both in wordes and in verie deede doe teach openly testifying that they were the temples of the holy Ghost now indeede destroyed but in their time to be againe restored and to be raysed vp to life and that eternally In the meane season the very sepulchers and the Church-yards are to be kept holily and reuerently as among vs it is done As for the children or parentes the kindred and alliance of the dead are to be comforted And both we studie to yeelde all the duties of humanitie that can be yeelded and we teach that they ought to be yeelded And if any thing out of the Psalmes concerning the resurrection of the dead be anie where soong while the corps is borne or if any sermon after the corps is enterred be made to the people wherein honest mention be made of other also which holily haue slept in the Lorde we do neuer a whitte disallowe the same Sith that it is not made for the sauing health of the partie or parties that are dead but for the consolation and vtilitie of the liuing and to the aedification of the whole Church For we doe beleeue that the soules of the faithfull being loosed from their bodies do passe foorthwith to Christe into heauen and thereby haue no neede of our suffragies Howbeit the aedification of the Church is alwayes vpon any occasion giuen to be furthered Thus reuerently writeth Zanchius of the manner of burying the dead not onely allowing a sermon after the buriall but the buriall to be in the Church-yarde Yea not improuing singing of the Psalmes as Caluine before referred ringing to the authoritie and order of the Prince And therefore our publike order of buriall appointed in the Communion booke as no whit inferiour to any of these if not much better may stande well inough in state as it doth for any reason here alleaged to the contrarie Our Brethrens only reason is this Because experience hath taught what inconuenience may grow therof by example of that which hath beene before It is a good saying Happie is he whom other mens harmes do make to beware But both our Brethren and we must againe be as warie least that while we feare to stomble at that which might be occasioÌ of like inconuenience we both of vs should mistake non causam prââââsa that to be a cause or occasion of heresies errors and superstition which is no cause nor occasion of them and so to shunne the one runne on the otherside into as grosse or grosser inconueniences for lacke altogether of preaching or exhortation and that part of prayer which is thanksgiuing at the buriall of the dead as other heretofore haue done by erroneous and superstitious abusing of the same But our Brethren drawing now to the conclusion of these matters say And as they are not to be excused if any for small trifles onely rayse vp hote contentions so they haue much to aunswere before God that suffer the people of God to lacke the only foode of their soules for such humane Constitutions Whether any of these thinges afore-saide for the which our Brethren rayse vp these hote contentions as the burying in the Chauncell Church or Church-yarde the buriall with more pompe or lesse the laying of the corpse towardes the East the womans white rayle the midwiues going with her to Church and the Clerkes atteÌdance on her home be trifles and small trifles yea in comparison verie nyfles or no let other Iudge
And yet must these be added to the residue that the Churching or thankesgiuing of women after their child-birth might altogether be omitted and that among the superstitions vsed in buriall no kinde of praying nor preaching should be vsed If preaching be the soules foode who did last forbidde it And besides these thinges what sturre and hote contentions haue béene raysed vp for a number of other thinges which in regarde of preaching though otherwise in their kindes and degrées they be comely and decent yet in that respect may be accounted for small trifles And therfore I would wish our Brethren to take good héede what here they say that they are not to be excused if any for small trifles only rayse vp hote contentions sith this toucheth themselues néerer than they wéene What maketh them to cast foorth these spéeches But that they thinke eyther these matters for which they thus contende are matters of great importaunce or else that not they but we rayse vp suche hote contentions for them And indéede though in their owne nature many of them be indifferent yet being by lawefull authoritie ordeyned to be vsed for publike order and for comelinesse they are become hereby more important than that it may be lawefull to any priuate man at his owne voluntarie to shake them off except by the like lawefull authoritie whereby they were brought in they shall be remooued Yea in this case we are bounde to be hoate for defence of them also so wée excéede not the boundes of Christian charitie both for obedience to the lawefull authoritie that made them and also for the order and comelinesse sake for which they were authorized not to sée them impugned sithe that in the impugning of them not onely the obeyer yéelding to them is defaced but the lawes and Magistrates authoritie in making them is violated and indaungered Wherein although the defenders be hoate yet properly not the defenders but the impugners are indéede the verie raysers of these hoate contentions And therefore by this their owne saying our Brethren are not in this behalfe to be excused but rather with griefe and in charitie be it spoken to be accused yea they accuse in these wordes their owne selues as disturbers of the Churches quiet Neither can they shelter themselues vnder this worde onely saying they raise not vp this hote contentions for small trifles onely but that among their quarells there are some of great importance For let anie of theÌ be of what importance soeuer they shal be found to be ought they only or not only to raise such hote contentions for any suche small trifles Now as in this point they plainly make themselues not excusable so much more in adding these wordes So haue they much to answere before God that suffer the people of God to lacke the only food of their soules for such humane coÌstitutioÌs Verily this goeth néerer to the quicke For howsoeuer we may shufle out aunsweres one to another when we shall come to aunswere before God we can not so answere before him For if none should suffer the people of God to lacke the only foode of their soules for such humane constitutions shall our Brethren be excusable that being lawfully called to the office of distributing this only foode of our soules do altogether with drawe themsemselues and that onely if they will afforde them no better title for such humane constitutions But they say the fault is not in them for they would gladly continue in feeding the people of God if they might be suffred Yet doth this their owne saying still make them vnexcusable For séeing they be but such humane constitutions as should be rather suffered than that they should suffer the people of God to lacke the only foode of their soules they suffring this for not suffring the other do invincibly recharge themselues that herein they haue much to aunswere before God If our Brethr. reply that these humane constitutions for which they suffer the people of God as farre as in them lyeth vtterly to lacke the onely foode of their soules be such as by no meanes are sufferable and can not be ioyned with the deliuery of the worde of God this requireth to be better proued than yet it is Which if they can proue then wee must néedes yéeld the fault to be in vs and that we haue much therein to aunswere before God and to crie God heartily mercy and ioyne them And also I hope vpon such proofe euery good man will do But for my part I could neuer yet sée this proued As for any humane constitution that our coÌmunion booke and the Eccl. gouernment of our Church of England doth require of them hath bin further by others I also I trust haue euidently sufficiently proued for those that as yet we haue séene that they are none other humane constitutions but such as may well stande with the Pastors feeding the people of God with the onely foode of their foules to wit the word of God And therefore they haue much to aunswere who by their not yéelding to them but rather cleane forsaking the Pastorship coÌmitted to them and ministerie of the word and sacraments are the cause their selues that they be not suffred to preach and so suffer the people to lacke the only foode of their soules for thinges which are in comparison farre inferiour matters But to conclude say our Brethren it is the dutie of euerie true Pastor to obserue those things that are concluded by the lawfull authoritie of the Church concerning ceremonial matters for order and comelines sake and for aedification and not to controll publike order by his priuate iudgement but vpon great and waightie causes This is a good conclusion that our Brethren do here make of all these matters But do they not yet sée how flatly withall they conclude against themselues For we are now in hand with ceremoniall matters And the whole Church oâ England hath fully concluded long since that by lawfull authority that these things are to be obserued coÌcerning ceremoniall matters for order and comelines sake for aedification What foloweth then But as our Brethr. here do say it is the dutie of euery true Pastor to obserue those thinges and not to controll publike order by his priuate iudgement How then doe our Brethren in controlling and not obseruing those things obserue the dutie of true Pastors Do they think that their iudgement is not priuate iudgement But what is it else For although they were some greater number of Pastors thaÌ they be yet being compared to the lawfull authority of the whole Church of Englande they are but priuate Pastors and their iudgement priuate especially beeing depriued by lawfull authoritie of their Pastorship or rather exauthorating themselues of the ministery Do they think this exception which they reserue for the last cast and place it as a rereward in the end of this conclusion but vpon
examination and determining of al matters pertayning to discipline and gouernement of that congregation The premisses inferred not this conclusion S. Paule speaketh not at all in those places of euerie Church and congregation nor howe many offices ought to be in euerie of them nor of any consistorie or Seniorie at all of Elders or Gouernors in them nor of the hearing examination determining of all matters pertayning to discipline and gouernement of that congregation nor who or how many of them ought to do these things nor of any certaine perpetuall and ordinarie platforme of officers or offices to the whole Churche or to euerie particular Churche and congregation None of all these pointes are here either plainely declared or inclusiuely insinuated by S. Paule and yet sée how our Brethren when they are once growne to be bolde to affimre one point out of Gods word for these officers more than the worde of God leadeth them vnto dare from one point procéeding to another waxe bolder and bolder in the ende so bolde not nowe only to affirme plainely all these things But to make a flat and plaine conclusion on them and that a necessarie that therefore there ought to be in euery Church a Consistorie or Signorie of Elders or Gouernors which ought to haue the hearing examination and determining of all matters pertaining to discipline and gouernment of that congregation and then indéede farewell not only our former questions of womens gouernement but of all Princes gouernement women or men in any of their dominions For here is not onely mentioned discipline but also gouernement and not in Ecclesiasticall matters only but in all matters pertayning to the gouernement of that congregation and not onely the hearing and examination of all matters but also the determining of them all And all this not to be done in some but in euerie Church and in euerie congregation in the Realme yea in the whole worlde And all this to be done not by any officers of the Prince but by a Consistorie or Segnorie of Elders or Gouernours chosen among themselues not any officers of the Prince being so muche as mentioned among them no nor now when it commeth to the conclusion eyther Pastor or Bishop is ioyned with them So that both the Pastor and the Bishop is now so farre remooued from hauing any authoritie of gouernemnt in the Church separated from others by him selfe that he may kéepe it by him selfe haue he any for with them in conclusion hee getteh none they will haue all separately by themselues Are not these matters trowe wée in this Learned Discourse of our Brethren properly concluded and to the great beautifying of Gods Church and to the quiet establishment of this Realme O Brethren Brethren it is more than high time to looke to such a Segnorie the verye péeping out of whose heades and the first appearing in the Discoursing of them shall beginne his course on this course fashion and vnder pretence of putting by the Bishoppe and of ioyning with the Pastor shall so exclude the Princes established authoritie and sette vp such a straunge newe gouernement among them-selues and that in euerie particular Congregation that is in euerie parish Church both with vs in Englande and throughout all Christendome But nowe to mittigate all this least it might growe into shrewde suspition of most daungerous troubles innouations and confusions of all Realmes and states by giuing too great authoritie to the Segnories of these Congregationall Elders and Gouernours Our Brethren adioyne heereunto with great circumspection certaine cautions of moderation Which authority of theirs say they neuerthelesse ought to be moderated that their iudgement may be rightly accounted the iudgement of the holy Church I thinke they would say of the whole Church But the terme holie is well-inough For verily if the Churche be not the holier this Segnorie might bréede a mysterie of great mischiefe and vnholinesse except their iudgement in choosing and the authoritie of those that be chosen shall the better be moderated Let vs therefore marke our Bretherens moderating of these Gouernours to bridle and represse all these inconueniences Which thing consisteth in these two points First that the Elders be elected and chosen by consent of the whole Congregation men of godlinesse and wisedome in whom the whole Church reposeth such confidence that they committe vnto them their authority in hearing and determining such matters as without horrible confusion they cannot performe themselues I looked here for the moderating of these Elders that their authoritie should haue béen so restrayned or limited that either they should not deale in all matter of gouernement or not proceede ouer farre therein But our Brethren talke of no such moderating of them Their moderation consisteth in two pointes whereof the first is for their election that the Elders be elected and chosen by the consent of the whole congregation What And shall neither Prince Magistrate Bishop Pastor nor any officer ciuill or Eccl. haue any stroake ouer and aboue the whole multitude of the congregation in the election of them which shall deale in all matters of gouernment This first point is a point as daungerous as any of the residue And how shall the whole congregation giue their consent in the electing of them Shall they doe it by some other chosen persons among them that shall giue their consent for them And then who shall choose them that shall chose those that shall choose these Elders chosen for them Or shall euery person of the whole congregation by himselfe or all of them together on a huddle choose them And what if they cannot consent vpon them Shall the halfe or greater parte goe for the whole when the other halfe or the lesser part of the whole congregation dissenteth from the election And how then will they chose suche men of godlinesse and wisedome as they imagine And what also if the greater part theÌselues of the congregation want wisedome to make such choise of them Or affection of loue hate feare hope c. ouercome their wisedome As we sée it doth oftentimes not only in fewe but in multitudes And the greatest parte hath not alwayes the greatest wisedome nor greatest godlinesse Whereupon ariseth the common saying maior pars vincit melioreÌ the greatest part ouercomes the better And our greater part must be accounted for the whole or else no choise at all will bée made among them And where then shall our men of wisedome and godlinesse by the consent of the whole congregation be elected and chosen Well say they yet they shall be men of such wisedome and godlines as in whome the whole Churche reposeth such confidence that they committe vnto them their authoritie in hearing and determining such matters as without horrible confusion they can not performe themselues And can they not giue their coÌsent to the hearing determining such matters without not only confusion
also to be punished in body by the ciuil magistrate we say that the prince hath a part that a principal part euen in the very making of all these eccl lawes orders or decrees in that he maketh theÌ by his royall conseÌt to be eccl lawes orders decrees For till the princes royall assent ratifie them if there be a christian Prince so to do they be but determinatioÌs what should or may bee done and are indéede rather deliberations and aduisements than that they haue the vigor force of decrees and lawes So that the Prince tarryeth not as they say till the Clergy haue fully decreed it for a lawe afterward by the Ministery of their preaching they let him vnderstand what decrees and lawes they haue made then must he obserue them and binde his people vnto them punish those that offend against them but we say that they deuise them he enacteth them They say they should be he saith they shall be and so he maketh the Eccl. lawes with their aduices This is the very point that if they could they should or rather should not but woulde infringe For in this chiefely consisteth the Princes supreme authority in Eccl. matters that we defend and they thus begin to call in question But euen their owne similitude doth here beate them that they say in this respect the church most obediently submitteth her selfe vnto the Prince as a child to his nurse For if the Church doth so submit her selfe to the Prince then as the nursse doth not onely procure peace quietnes to the child in the things that are necessary for him but doth giue him suck also and nourisheth him with milke from her owne brests besides other things that she prouideth and not onely dresseth trimmeth vp the childe but also appointeth orders rules to others in the house how the child should be kept tended so the Prince in all these things not onely for quietnes safety of the church nor for ciuill honesty onely conuersation of life but also in feeding the Church with the milke of Gods word as euen the very interlineall glosse of the Papists theÌselues cannot shun but confes that interpretation it is so forcible against them how is this the feeding them with this milk from the Princes brests since they their selues do not Preach the word but by that authority that is in the Prince to set forth Eccl. lawes for the feeding of the people with gods word by all such other meanes besides preaching teaching ministery of the Sacraments as is competent to their princely estate that is to say by making Eccl. lawes orders decrees for the norishing and gouerning of the Church Though still in respecte the Princes are but particular persons they againe are but as the children the Pastors their nurses God their father the Church their mother And thus we graunt as mutuall meanes instruments therunto they haue on all parts this authority giuen them of god that as our brethreÌ say both Prince and people may honor God in this life and after this life reigne with christ euerlastingly And this is all that our Bre. say of the supreme authority of Christian Princes in Ecclesiasticall matters Thus haue wee briefely set foorth a forme of reformation touching matters Eccl. as we are throughly perswaded agreeable to the word of God as we are able to proue consenting with the example of the primitiue church building onely vpon the most sure foundation of the canonicall scriptures but intending more at large if occasion shall serue hereafter to set forth the practise consent of the godly fathers in their actes Counsels writings following the same rule and interpretation of the scripture that we haue done And thus also haue we fully throughly heard what our bre briefly or largely haue set foorth in all this their learned discourse of Eccl. gouernment for the fourme of reformation touching Ecclesiasticall matters Here therefore hauing now finished their whole discourse which in the front thereof they haue intituled A briefe and playne declaration conteyning the desires of all those faithfull Ministers that haue and doe seeke for the reformation of the Church of England They now enter into the Epilogue or small per-oration for the knitting vp of all the matters that in this learned discourse haue bene layd downe And first whereas the more to perswade the reader to beléeue them they say this forme that they haue here set forth is as they are throughly perswaded agreeable to the word of God I aunswer this is not materiall what they are or are not throughly perswaded to bee agreeable to the word of God For though in Christ we wish as wel to them as they to vs yet depende wee no more on their perswasions to themselues than they on ours to vs. But if they could haue brought or can bring any sufficient and cléere profe of matter out of the worde of GOD indeede that might perswade vs throughly thereunto If they could doe that it were very materiall and by the grace of God wee should not gaynsay it contrary to our consciences but yéeld on all hands thereunto and bee as throughly perswaded as there are But this must bee with better and firmer prooues of Gods worde than either our Bre. haue yet alledged or any other that euer I read agreeable or inclinable to their opinion For setting aside all such perswasions of men this perswasion must bee wrought with pure matter For till then they can neuer throughly perswade other to be perswaded as they bee if they their selues be indeed as they say they are throughly perswaded And although I may be somewhat easily perswaded that they are somewhat perswaded that this their forme is agreeable to Gods word yet as yet I can neither be throughly perswaded that they their selues are throughly so perswaded of this forme nor that this forme of this learned discourse let the learning in eche mans perswasion goe as it shall is either the discourse declaration or desires of all those faithfull Ministers that haue and doe seeke for the discipline and reformation of the Church of England For first they are not I think perswaded that all or any one of our Bishops and a great many if not all or the most part of vs are so perswaded either throughly or in parte or at all If they shall vtterly herein reiect all our Bishops and all vs besides onely themselues as no faithfull ministers that were too arrogant a parte in them selues and too iniurious and coÌtumelious to all the Ministers in the Church of England that are not throughly perswaded as they say they bee Yea this contumelie and iniurie would inâlude many not onely of their owne fauourers that yet are not perswaded at all in many things conteyned in this learned discourse but vtterly mislike them and will perhaps bee lesse and lesse
necessitie vnto them Or whether we will yéeld or no so that they can mooue them that haue authoritie to put this forme in practise and to seeke by lawfull and ordinarie means saie they that it maie take place that it may please God to giue it good successe at this time to be imbraced we maie fulfill the rest of our course with ioy When indéed if it should take place or that it pleased God to giue it that successe which they call good at this time or at anie time hereafter by these means which as we haue séene are neither ordinarie nor orderlie nor lawfull nor reasonable nor tending to Gods glorie nor to the churches profit nor the safetie and souereigntie of hir Maiestie nor the honour of them that haue authoritie nor to the custome or fréedome of the Parliament then should our brethren also find féele by experience the schoolemistresse as they saie of fooles though now in opinion they hope and are persuaded and would persuade vs by the Theoriks of their learned discourse otherwise that they should so little fulfill the rest of their course with ioy that they should rather consume their course with too late repentance being continuallie coursed about these matters with restlesse troubles and vexations But if our sinnes be the let that this or the like grounded vpon Gods word maie not now be receaued yet the present age maie see and iudge what is the vttermost of our desire concerning reformation which hitherto for lacke of such a publike testimoniall hath beene subiect to infinite sclanders deuised by the aduersaries of Gods truth and hinderance of godlie proceedings vnto reformation And that the posteritie maie knowe that the truth in this time was not generallie vnknowne nor vntestified concerning the right regiment of the church of GOD nor this disordred forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment which we haue receaued for the most part of poperie deliuered to our children without contradiction that our example should not be preiudiciall vnto them as the example of our godlie fathers which in this point neglected their dutie hath bene preiudiciall vnto vs. Verie well saith saint Iames chapter 4 ver 1 c. From whence are wars and contentions among you are they not hence euen of your lusts or desires that fight in your members Ye lust or desire and haue not ye enuie haue indignation and can not obtaine you fight and war and get nothing because ye aske not ye aske and receaue not because ye aske amisse that you might consume it on the things that you lust for or doe desire And euen so for our bretherens lusts and desires to haue this forme take place and be put in practise their selues haue well confessed saieng but if our sinnes bee the let that this or the like grounded vpon Gods word maie not now be receaued for their sinnes indeede be the let because the things desired and their desires and attempts thereof are full of sinnes and therfore God of his great mercie lets and stops the receauing of this forme sith it is not as they pretend to vs or persuade to themselues grounded vpon Gods word and euen therefore it might not then neither maie it now nor by the grace of God euer shall of vs be receiued at all But what is this which here they said if our sinnes be the let that this or the like grounded vpon Gods word maie not now be receaued What haue we here This indéed is a new point Are we come now after all this adoe in the finall conclusion and lapping vp of all this forme learned discourse of ecclesiasticall gouernment of all this declaration of all the desires of all the faithfull ministers what reformation of the church of England they seeke for after all this vrging prescribing protesting c. are we now come to the receauing of this or the like I had thought all this while and so they still did beare vs stoutlie in hand that they had pleaded for this forme would haue prooued that this forme of eccl gouernment which they haue here set foorth in this learned discourse had bene the true waie that they meant of reformation And now for sooth when all comes to all it is not this but it is either this or the like Aha is it but so that is another maner of matter if it be but either this or the like well then thanks be to God we haue séene alreadie what this is and what truth and force this hath caried But what is that they saie or the like for it is an old and a true prouerbe Nullum simile est idem Nothing that is the like is the same so that now if we receaue the like our brethren haue here giuen vs a flat discharge our quietus est for this and as for this we may againe giue it a free passe-port out of England so that we receaue the like for this bindeth vs not but this or the like No nor yet the like bindeth vs anie more than this But as nothing in this did before bind vs and yet had it bound vs the bands as now in the end we see were of no force yea their selues haue here vndone the bands and set vs at libertie on this condition that we haue the like so as yet we be free from this like also for what this like is that they tell not and how shall we learne it For if we looke on all the forms that anie other of our brethren doo also prescribe or on any other forme in anie other reformed church they are neither like this forme nor one like another neither is there anie hurt at all therin though they be not alike in their forms of eccl gouernment For so that they be not alike but al one and the same in all one and the same substance of doctrine faith and religion the eccl gouernment in diuers states and dominions maie differ in diuers matters and be neither the same nor yet alike without any danger to those churches themselues or anie preiudice to the churches of other princes countries and dominions But like or like not if it may not saie they be receaued yet the present age may see and iudge what is the vttermost of our desire That say I is verie hard for vs to see when their own selues are not able to determine it For although we may see these their desires that are set down in this learned discourse if they maie be rightlie termed desires and not rather prescriptions yet neither doo we see the vttermost of them nor what a number euen as in the horsse of Troie lie hidden and included in them that yet in these beginnings are not opened and God knoweth whether the present age now liuing shall see the one halfe or quarter of them especiallie of the vttermost of them Yea what an vncerteintie of their desires doo they here open to
euerie Diocese and particular parish in the Realme the erection of a new Tetrarchie in euâry seuerall congregation of Doctors Pastors Gouernours and Deacons by which fower estates offices all matters should be directed and all crimes eccl or ciuill censured by their discipline Yea they mount vp to the highest toppe euen of the Princes supreme gouernment Since that therefore these contentions haue aspired thus farre to the imminent daunger of all our whole estate though in an other sort than do our aduersaries in religion it is more than high time against these though otherwise in Christe our well meaning but misweening Brethren to enter into the necessarie defence of these be they matters or manners of such moment I am not ignorant that vnto many this labour wil be thought superfluous either of those that would haue these matters go forwarde without misliking or of some also that allowe them not Howbeit because they haue eyther before beene sufficiently trauersed in by other alreadie both pro contra or that now these controuersies if they be not dead and buried long ago yet the feruour of them is meetly well slaked therefore according to Pythagoras wise counsell ignem opertum noli fodere it were much better to let it alone than to rake abroade the fire that is couered in the cinders these men thinke this to be the best aunswere not at all to aunswere them but to passe theÌ oueâ in silence and contemne them Whereby eyther the parties contending hauing wearied themselues in vaine will the sooner giue ouer or at least other will thinke the matters not worthy to be vouchsafed any aunswere And that to aunswere yea to confute them is but to prouoke further controuersies of which wee are pestred with too many and those not a little raysed or enkinled by often and intemperate disputing aunswering and replying one to an other And in very deede with them that thinke thus in some matters and manners of proceeding I my selfe am of their opinion For this licentiousnesse of writing such reciprocall inuictiues hath bred and breedeth much vnnecessarie trouble Notwithstanding as the Preacher among all other thinges that keepe the reuolution of their seasons reckoneth vp this there is a time to keepe silence and a time to speake when a matter groweth to importance and is vrged too importunately admitting it be a wrong and daungerous errour and yet on all sides it winneth fauour to let it so passe without all controlement what were silence then but grosse negligence the very yeelding to the errour and danger yea the wilfull betraying of the truth and consenting to the ouerture of our state And euen so fareth it in this matter The Papists from whose grosse errors in doctrine we both dissent and against whome in the vnitie and substance of Gods truth we both agree and for a while conioyntly we impugned their errors idolatrieâ and superstitions at the first in defence of them they began to write freshly and stoutly against vs but when they saw they were not able that way to mainteine the badnesse of their cause they left off writing and followed for the most part this policie to seeme to despise all further triall by disputing and writing of the matter and would seeke to vphold it onely or chiefly by countenance and authoritie but finding againe the experience of this that Voluntas non potest cogi the will of man must be perswaded can not be compelled and that nullum violentum est perpetuum the thing that is only with violence coacted can not possibly continue and that in these controuersies all men are most desirous to be satisfyed with some aunswere or other they fall againe to writing though hardly driuen thereto vsing all the shifts they can to bodge vp the insufficiencie of their cause But in a good matter there neede no such practises True it is as I sayd before that the poynts to be discussed betwixt our Brethren and vs be nothing of such waight as those are wherein our Brethren and we do varie from the aduersaries in the mayne and principall standerds of our faith but are questions most what of discipline and of the Churches gouernment Neuerthelesse since that heerein also our Brethren haue not only made a breach from vs but they haue bred such further contention for them as in which a pacification is fo requisite that without it we see what broiles and daungers dayly growe to the disturbing of our owne estate to the aduantage of the publike aduersarie to the hinderance and obloquie of the Gospell It is necessarie therefore that as God be praysed we haue the truth in doctrine and defend it well not only by the authoritie of the Magistrate but by the words owne authoritie ââenly in writing by the Ministers thereof set foorth to all the world against all the resisters of the same so hauing as we trust a good established forme of the regiment discipline of our Church of England if any eyther of our professed aduersaries or of our malecontented Brethren shall withstand or write against it we are all obliged after the measure of each ones calling and habilitie to maynteyne and defend it and that not onely against the breakers of it by the Magistrates execution of authoritie but the Ministers no lesse in their vocation when it is openly written against are bound by their writing againe if the goodnesse of the matter be able so to iustifie it selfe to lay open all the whole state thereof by detecting and confuting all the paralogismes and fallations of the gaynesayers and by defending it euen with the firmenesse of the grounds and the owne good nature of the cause which manner of defence being not destitute of lawfull authoritie to see it obserued not only represseth the resisters bodie but satisfyeth or conuinceth his minde which is chiefly in these contentions to be respected And although this also be true that both our aduersaries in the controuersies of our religion and our Brethren in the questions of our regiment for such matters as then were moued haue beene by other of excellent learning sufficiently aunswered alreadie yet must we be still as ready to aunswere in defence of both these causes as either of them are ready to oppugne them seeing that God be thanked we mainteine nothing in our doctrine or in our regiment whereof we can not render a sound reason and sufficient proofe from the verie foundation of Gods word to mainteine it with a good conscience Howbeit sith that our Brethren cease not but as they first began these controuersies so they hold not yet themselues contented but Plus vltra they proceede further and to further matters and as they rise higher so more eagerly they presse vpon them not onely declaiming in the Pulpits as they get any oportunitie thereunto and exclaime if they be put to silence but also put vp billes and supplicationâ at euery Parliament compile and scatter abroade their printed treatises insomuch that
in all degrees of men and women noble worshipfulâ ââd of the vulgar sort many begin to doubt of our established gouernment and to suppose some great and inuincible validitie to be in their assertions if too manie be not alreadie carried away too farre in thiâ opinion that the regiment and discipline which our Brethren desire is suppressed onely by meere authoritie against the manifest prescription of Gods word against the cleere examples of the Primitiue Church against the manifold testimonies of the vnsuspected hystories and auncient Fathers against the sound interpretations and approued practise of all or the best reformed Churches and against reason it selfe as they pretend how much behoueth it vs againe in all brotherlie modestie constantlie to stand vpon our gard in so iust a defence For although many godly learned and wise haue in searching found out the shallownesse heerein of all their grounds yet is it requisite to lay them open to all other that desire to be more thoroughly satisfyed yea euen to exenterate and rip vp the verie bowels of the whole cause to examine their chiefe and principall arguments to go to the authors themselues from whence they fetch them to set them downe at large least any might complaine they were mangled or inuerted and to do all this by the more diligent search and conference of the holie Scripture by the better examining the state of the Primitiue Church by the particular perusing the autentike hystories and testimonies of the auncient Fathers by reuising the states and writing of the reformed Churches and by weighing the peyse and inference of their reasons if happily by all or by any of all these meanes we shall see all or any of the thingâ that they crie so much vpon to be truly and substantially prooued Which thing while heere I haue laboured to performe though the volume haue growne bigge and the search may seeme tedious vnto some yet the desirous readers satisfaction may be part of his recompence which I haue chiefely intended in this aunswere I know that some too much dazeled by preoccupate affection and wholy mancipated to their forestalled opinion will be still picking byous quarrels to replie vpon one thing or another But to him that is desirous indeede to boult out the truth to sound the matters to their deapth to leuell his ayme not to euery incident but to the head and state in question such replyes as bubles will die as they rise being of no regard but seruing onely to feede and foade contentions and foreseasoned humors and such I graunt it is in vayne to aunswere except they be too vrgent or preuayle too much or by silence and permission get too great credite But when as heere the persons with whome I deale professe in the front and first title of their booke that this is A briefe and plaine declaration concerning the desires not of such or such an one or of some fewe or many of them but of all those faithfull Ministers that haue and doe seeke for the discipline and reformation of the Church of Englande and say againe in their conclusion and last leafe of this Discourse that if this forme of reformation which they haue here set foorth may not nowe be receaued yet the present age may see and iudge what is the vttermost of our desire concerning reformation which hitherto for lacke of such a publike testimoniall hath beene subiect to infinite sclaunders deuised by the aduersaries of Gods truth and hindrance of godly proceedinges vnto reformation And for remedie hereof they haue nowe at length ioyned all their heads together consulting and consenting vpon this plotforme of the Churches gouernement which for greater aestimation they recommende vnto vs with this plausible title on the toppe of euerie leafe A Learned Discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment And that this is nowe set foorth to this ende that the posteritie may knowe that the truth in this time was not generally vnknowen nor vntestified concerning the regiment of the Church of God thus couragiously prouoking vs to aunswere vnto this Learned Discourse if we be able so to doe or else to holde our peace for euer hereafter who may not hereby see that it is high time either now or neuer to speak for our selues and for our Churches defence or else as conuicts by silence to yeelde vnto them But now againe while we thus contend by inueighing against and aunswering one another some good men I knowe there are that wish vs both well which are most of all afraide of this that wee shall lay our shame and nakednesse open to all the worlde and namely to the publike and deadly aduersaries of vs both who by occasion of these inferiour matters of circumstance wherin we agree not diffame the higher matters of substance wherein we agree And I confesse with griefe so we doe But when this ariseth not by vs nor by vs is growen so farre and yet betweene our Brethren and vs it is so farre growen that the aduersarie alreadie and all the world doth or may see our dissent herein although neither our Brethren nor we had set it foorth in writing yet when our Brethren by writing also diuulge it to the wide worlde and still followe it with one treatise on the necke of an other what booteth it any longer for that respect to refraine from the publike defending of our cause Yea how doth it not nowe stande vs more vpon to publish our so necessarie defence that all men may better knowe and iudge it hearing both partes So that wee defende ours and aunswere theirs in such reuerende forte as the Apostle putteth vs in minde Let your modestie or your patient mind be made knowen to all men And when the worlde shall see vs deale together thus they shall see that although we must needs as the sonne of Syrach bids vs Striue for the truth vnto the death and defende iustice for thy life yet still we are desirous as the Apostle also willeth If it be possible so much as lieth in vs to haue peace with all men And when the aduersarie shall see how loath we are and euen haled to enter into this conflict against our Brethren and with what reuerence for our partes wee striue with them or rather stande onely at the bay of our defence in the shielding of our Churches state and gouernance And againe when they shall see howe that notwithstanding all these contentions for our regiment we doe yet as I hope hetherto we doe and shall the Lorde be praysed for it continue in the vnion of all the ground-worke and building of our faith doctrine and religion which the aduersaries among them selues for all their crakes doe not they shall or may the easilier perceaue euen in the matter and manner of our contentions both the synceritie of our cause and the temperature of our dealing Which may by the grace of God turne to their bettering or at least to their shame they shall or may
causes or permitters of their tempestes which they complaine they haue suffered or that her Maiestie and her most honorable Counsell haue not extended their clemency vnto them as they ought to haue done in not satisfiyng the hope and expectation of these Ministers But besides that thus no lesse vndutifully then vntruly our brethren do burden her Maiesty and her most honorable Counsel not so content they charge them further and in a higher matter saying But most especially according to their holy and zealous care which ought to abouÌde for the cleane driuing out of the Cananits c. No âoubt her Maiesties her most honorable counsels care is both zealous and holy because it is so it hath we trust to their habilities abounded in performing that they ought to haue done héerein and euen therfore our brethren offer thâ another iniury Yea if the driuing out of the Cananits had bene indéede their hope and expectation it had bene satisfied long a-go What Cananits are there remayning that should haue bene driuen out that in such sortâ as they ought to do and might haue done they haue not done it and who are these Cananits Do they meane the Papists but they are more aptlâ compared to the Idolatrous Israelits and Iewes not to the Cananits that were méere heathen And although in some sense they may be so coÌpared yet were not the Cananites so vtterlye to be driuen out but that if anyâ would become in religion true Israelits as Rahab and the Gibeonits c. they were permitted to abide notwithstanding the expresse commaundement giuen them to the contrary Whereas Christians haue no such especiall or generall charge to driue cleane out all that haue beene Papistes or superstitious or Idolatrous or Heritikes or Insidels if they were truely conuerted to the faith and religion of Iesus Christe or else how haâ Christ translated his Church from the Iewes to the Gentiles And so God be praised for it hath he conuerted in these last daies infinite Papists to the Gospell But if they meane those that remaine Papists I doe not thinkâ that they can shew any such to be maintained in the Ministery Although their wordes runne at large of the cleane driuing out of all Cananits or Papistes out of the realme of what state or condition soeuer they be How much better is it in my opinion and more agréeable to the mercye of the Gospell and to the clemency of her Maiesties most holy zealous care so to abound that her Maiesty hath assayed to haue woonn those Cananits to the Gospell by letting them abide so driue out from them their Cananitisme rather than to driue out al the Cananits except they obstinatly professe themselues to be Cananites to driue out such at least out of al authority and publike Ministery Ecclesiasticall or ciuill or to restraine or punish them otherwise as they deserue although dissembling Cananits can neuer sufficiently be cleane driuen out that shew such outward conformity to the Gospell that they deceaue her Maiesty her most honorable Counsell al other saue God only Quis hominuÌ scit quae sunt hominiâ nisi spiritus hominis qui in eo est As for planting hedging pruning continuall preseruing of the Lords vine-yard from foxes yea little foxes we trust also as becommeth vs and as we haue found by the benefite therâf good cause so to thinke that her Maiesties and her most honorable couÌsels holy and zealous care hath not a little abounded héerein And this before we shall enter into this learned discourse is a good hearing that they acknowledge her Maiestie ought to haue with her most honorable counsell a holie and zealous care to abounde in the planting hedging pruning and continuall preseruing of the Lords vine-yarde from foxes yea little foxes For when we shal come to this learned discourse we shal there sée that our brethren so abridge restraine this their authority héere in that they their selues haue bene a great occasion if there haue bene any defect that the Lords vine-yard hath not bene planted hedged pruned continually preserued with so full effect as her Maiesties and her most honorable Counsels holy care zeale hath endeuored to bring to passe For vnder pretence of these Cananits and foxes great or little our brethren meane not indeede so much to challenge the Papists as our Bishops and Prelates to be the great foxes and other the poore ministers of gods word the little foxes and in generall al those to be Cananits bee they neuer so zealous protestantes if they acknowledge the lawes and orders of our Church of England by her Maiesty established And to shew this they mention not the open warre with the common aduersary which is the Papist but say they this ciuil warre as a man may say of the church wherein so much of that bloud whereof S. Paule speaketh is powred to the ground should by their holy and iust authority fully be ended And so say I it might haue bene ended long ago had it not bene more by the importunity of our brethren themselues who as the old saying accordeth the Foxe the first fynder haue both made continually reniued this ciuil warre more then either the Bishops or any of vs who haue bene and are conformable to the lawes nowe established or any negligence in the behalfe of her Maiestie or of her most honorable Counsel that thei should be thus wrongfully burdened to haue bene the nourishers as it were of this ciuill warre but haue still employed all their holy and iust authority to the full ending of it And sith they giue it rightly this tearme of ciuill warre which is a great deale more daungerous warre than the forren warre with the open and common aduersarie who hath raysed this so daÌgerous ciuill warre We that in all due obedience acknowledge the lawes and orders established of the Churche of England Or they that haue and doo impugne them and who hath contended against her Maiesties and her most honorable Counsels holy and iust authority we or they yea indéede they haue not onely not yeelded to her Maiesties supreme authority herein but they plainly deny the full ending and determining of this ciuil warre consisting in these controuersies to appertaine vnto them but onely to themselues as God willing we shall see when wee come in this learned discourse to the examining of the authority that they giue to the ciuill Christian Magistrates in these matters Now say they when as wee at this time are subiect almost vnto all the afflictions which can come vnto a church blessed of God with such a Christian and happie regiment as to the prophane scoffing of the Hâmonits at the building of the church as at a wall which a foxe shoulde destroy to the conspiracies of the Arabies and those of Asshod to the false charges of sedition contempt of all good lawes and proceedings like to that
of Sanballat yea to the Prophets themselues vndermining nay reuiling displacing and greeuously afflicting the godly and learned Ministery and so consequently plaguing the Churche with that plague whereby the Priestes may mourne because there is no offering and the people perish euen the young men with the famine of hearing the word of God preached when I say we are subiect to all these we can think of no waye for reconciling the brethren at variaunce and after a moste sure and holy vnion of both their forces for a couragious setting vpon the common aduersarye then the certaine peaceable and reasonable way following Héere our brethren declare who they are whome before they calleâ Cananits and Foxes not the common aduersary but the brethren at variaunce So that either they meane vs or it must light on themselues if now they vouchsafe vs the name of brethren howe vnbrotherlike haue they dealt with vs to reuile vs by these vile tearmes Cananits foxes As though we were beastly or heathen men and not men and brethren as they are But if we be their brethren though at variance and yet foxes and Cananites what and are they also of the same brood or brotherhood But such is the eagernesse of their zeale that in their heart they regards not what foule tearmes they afforde vs howsoeuer they rebound and so expose themselues and vs their brethren to bee hissed and derided at of the common aduersary to vs both and not to be feared of him But they haue héere deuised a way which they call a certaine peaceable and reasonable way following so to reconcile vs being brethren at variaunce that after a most sure and holy vnion of both our forces wâ might giue a couragious onset vpon the common aduersary This waye were woorth the hearing and if it be such a way indeed God forbid but that we also as becommeth brethren forgiuing their so late reproches should so much as lieth in vs accept this offer But sée how peaceably and reasonably they beginne the very mention of this way First they complaine againe that at this time they are subiect almoste vnto all the afflictions which can come vnto a Church blessed of God with such a Christian and happy regiment I confesse it may be that in a church of God and in a Church also blessed of God and that with a happy and Christian regiment som few particuler persons vpon some accidents by occasion may bee subiecte to some afflictions But if those afflictions should be general to al that were the godlie learned and faithfull ministers of the Church and that also euen directly for the same Churches christian and happy regiment howe could that church be truly said to be a church blessed of God with a christian and happye regiment But since they graunte and I hope they thinke as they speake and dissemble not that our Church of England is blessed of God with such a Christian and happy regiment not meaning a meane degrée of the Christianity and happinesse thereof it therefore followeth and that of good consequency if our brethren be at this time subiect to afflictions and that all as they pretend for the Churches regimeÌt that they are not so godly learned and faithfull ministers as woulde to God they were Yea they plainly bewray in that they impugne the same regiment of the Church of God which both God blesseth as they cannot héere deny and confesse to bee such a christian and happie regiment that vnchristianly and also vnhappily they resiste the same and are themselues the causers of their own afflictions And since they can graunt thus much God graunt they would better aduise themselues and yeelde vnto this so happie and Christian regiment of the Church so blessed of God least they striue too farre against Gods blessings and against their owne consciences and confession Whereas if they would yéeld which haue begunne this vnhappie ciuill warre amongst vs they might not only be partakers of this blessing of God christian happy regiment but it should yet be more happy and Christian-like and both they and wee also more blessed of God For then indeed we that are brethren at variance should be so reconciled that after a most sure and holye vnion of both our forces we should couragiously set vpon the common aduersary which now we being at this variance vniteth all his forces to set vpon vs. But what be the afflictions that our brethren complaine they are subiect vnto yea almost vnto al the afflictions that can come vnto a church blessed of God with such a Christian and happie regiment As to the prophane scoffing of the Hammonits as at a wall which a foxe should destroy to the coÌspiracies of the Arabies those of Asâhod to the false charges of sedition contempt of all good lawes and proceedings lyke to that of Sanballat yea to the Prophets themselues vndermining nay reuiling displacing and grieuously afflicting the godly learned ministery and so consequently plaguing the church c. Is this our bretherens certain peaceable and reasonable way to reconcile brethren at variaunce and can they thinke of no waie else then thus at the first dashe to call their brethren scoffing Hammonits conspiring Arabies and those of Asshod geuers of false charges like that of Sanballat and to liken them to the false Prophets and to the plaguers of the churche of God This me thinketh is but a sory way to reconcile brethren at variance If not rather such a heap of so spightful reproches as here they cast on vs were the readiest way if we were neuer so much vnited to separate vs and to inflambe the ciuill warre betwene vs especially being so vntrue and so âaynous slaunders as these are For what worse can they say on the very Papists which they say are both their and our common aduersaries and what other were these Hammonits Arabies for all their dissembling c. â And iâ we be such how are we brethren were these brethren to the Iewes or would they reconcile theÌselues vnto theÌ as our brethren héerâ say they are now deuising a peaceable reasonable waie that we might vnite our forces with what conscience can they do or go about this if wâ were such if we be not such with what coÌsciences can they burthen vs with so false and gréeuous slaunders or make they it no matter of conscience so they may win credit and pitie with the common people they carâ not by what shameful infamies so euer so that they make vs odious This dealing is not brother-like nor the way to reconcile brethreÌ at variance God be mercifull to vs both lay not this vnto our bretherens charges Can they not procéed on the matter if they haue ought against vs with out such villainous reproches if we should replye in such foule-mouthed language what a hearing were this indéed wee tell them plainely that they build not wel
That I allowe the booke of Articles of religion agreed vpon by the Arch. and Bi. of both prouinces and the whole Cleargy in the conuocation holden at London in the yeere of our L. God 1562. set foorth by her Maiesties authority and do beleeue al the articles therein contained to be agreable to the word of God In witnesse where-of I haue subscribed my name If now these articles be the articles whereof our brethren say If they would straine their consciences to subscribe to the Arch. articles they woulde gladly receaue them to be the Embassadours of Iesus Christe These forée articles indéed the Arch-bishop hath set downe wherof the third comprehendeth the articles set out 1562. But what mattet is there of any of all these 3. articles that our brethren without straining of their consciences may not subscribe vnto First wil they not subscribe vnto the for-most of these 3. articles which is the summe and content of An acte restoring to the crown the auncient iurisdiction ouer the state Eccl. spirituall and abolishing all forrayne power repugnant to the same Anno 1. Eliz. cap. 1. But I thinke our brethren will not deny to subscribe to this article As concerning the second article for the booke of common prayer of ordering Bishops Priestes and Deacons these two pointes are ãâã wise enacted and authorized by like authority The one in an Acte for the vniformitie of common prayer and seruice in the church and the administration of the Sacraments Anno Eliza. 1. cap. 2. The other An acte declaring the manner of making and consecrating the Arch-bishops Bishops of this realme to be good lawful and perfect compriâing therin also the ordering and consecrating of Priests ministers of Gods holy word and Sacraments and of Deacons Anno Elizab. 8. cap. 1. To all which enactings and authorizings by these our high courts of ParliameÌt we being the true church of God and our brethren subiects in our state although they ought to haue no small respect least they straine their coÌsciences in refusing to subscribe there-to and with all in renouncing their charge and office of the Embassie of Iesus Christ being so vrgent important a function Yet if they could shewe anie greater or but equivalent reasons whereas héere they shew none at al for their refusall of subscribing to these Articles then might their refusal carry at least some shewe of probability But till they shall so doe I sée not but that while they pretend the straining of their consciences if they should receaue this article they straine their consciences a great deale more if they do it indéede on conscience in that they refuse their subscription Hath the whole corporation of the realme trow ye and al the church of England and all the states thereof no conscience or no knowledge what they did Or did they contrary to their knowledge straine their consciences in the enacting and establishing these things which conteinâ al that is comprised in this article Yea and all thinges conteined in the third article also concerning the booke of Articles agreed vpon by the Arch-bishops and Bishops of both prouinces and the whole Cleargie in the conuocation holden at London 1562. and set foorth by her Maiesties authoritie and also expresly ratified and commaunded to bee subscribed vnto and openly reade and assented vnto Anno Elizab xiâ ca. 12. What a preiudice then is this refusall of these our brethren what a slaunder what a touche to the consciences of al these estates and person ãâã when our brethren refuse that of pretence on conscience to subscribe to all these thinges which vpon so mature deliberation both her Ma. all the estrates of the realme Eccl. Temp. haue lawfully decréeed established and authorised If our brethren haue any parts among these either represented or included I see not how they also haue not so far foorth authorized that which here they refuse to subscribe vnto For if they seclude themselues from being any parts authorising the acts autorized in Parliament conuocation they do not onely seclude them-selues from vs their brethren which I hope are as faithful ministers as they haue as gâod consciences also but froÌ the whole body of the Realme church of Eng. the haue most cléerly in al these acts aforesaid enacted and authorised all the points coÌteyned in these 3. art therfore they may indéed be better called in my opinion the art of the whole church realm of Eng. than the Arch. articles And when such points as are contayned in any of these art were thus by Act of Parlia enacted likewise in the reigne of K. Ed. 6. of blessed memory did the godly reuereÌd Preachers ministers refuse to subscribe to that which the whole church realm had so decréed authorised No the forme of their frée plaine subscription is apparant in these words Liber qui nuper c. The booke which is of late set forth by the authority of the King and of the Parl. of the Church of Engl. appointing a manner and forme of praying administring the Sacraments in the church of EnglaÌd Likewise also that booke set forth by the same authority of the ordination of the ministers of the church are godly repugne in nothing to the wholsom doctrine of the Gospell but they well agree and they do cheefly furder the same in very many things Therefore they are of al the faithfull members of the Church of Eng. and most of al of the ministers of the word with all readinesse of mindes and thankesgiuing to be receaued to bee approued and to be commended vnto the people of God Thus did the godly learned preachers faithful ministers theÌ subscribe more expresly furder then is now required of these our brethren bicause we would beare with our brethren the more sith they pretend such scruple and strayning of their consciences But I aduise them in the feare of God to beware of such preteÌces on coÌscieÌce With what coÌscieÌce can they now not look back but turn back from the plough of God whereunto they haue bene lawfully called haue already laid to their hand now cast it quyte vp into the hedge and clean forsake it yea disclaime the most honor Embassy of Iesus C. vtterly suppresse the declaring the matter of their message because they cannot be suffered to declare it after their manner And yet crie out of such poore ministers as would faine preach if they could these can wel inough if they would but except they may as they lift they wil not Are these the parts of good faithfull Embas. and especially Embassadors of Iesus Christ Do they not feare to strain their consciences in these dealings and pretend feare of straining their conscience in subscribing to these articles but what strains of coÌscieÌce make they to spare no reproches be they neuer so vntrue against their brethreÌ no not sparing
vdder of his Cow more milke vnto my Neighbour yeeldes Our neighbours haue this our neighbours haue that and wee wantâ these things Fie brethren for shame what neede this emulation of our neighbours and murmuring against our owne state And yet it is not altogether so neither for them the more is the pitie if it otherwise pleased God Neither for vs thanks be giuen to God for it and for that plentifull measure of the encrease and glory of the kingdome oâ Christ in this our reformed Church of England and for the suppression of the tyrannie of Sathan and Anti-christe and of his Ministers and confederates Wee haue great cause highly to magnifie God for the woÌderfull and gratious works he hath wrought for vs aboue all our neighbours round about vs yea aboue all the particuler Churches néere or farre dispersed in the world at this day euen in this estate of Ecclesiasticall Gouernement established And all our neighbours where GOD hath anie Churche neuer so muche reformed doe I hope reioyce together with vs therefore yea not the beste of them but bee it spoken to the glorye of God and without vpbraiding to others haue found no small comfortable benefite at our handes and doe all most thankfully reacknowledge the same without condemning reprouing or grudging at our state of Ecclesiasticall gouernement established what other kinde of reformation soeuer in their Ecclesiasticall Gouernement they bee directed by Onelie we our selues murmur and grudge condemne and slaunder both among our selues and to all our neighbours our owne state which is so euill that woulde God were itaccording to his acceptable good pleasure the kingdome and glory of Christe and the suppression of Sathan and Antichriste though I had rather wish it did no lesse did but halfe as faste encrease and prosper then God bee glorified for it in our state it doeth And yet God graunt both in ours and in our neighbours states and all other parts of Gods true Church according as we al say in the Lordes Prayer Thy kingdome come these blessings of God may daily more and more encrease and prosper And so by Gods grace it shoulde still doe better and better Maugre Sathan and Antichriste if our owne brethren would not hindervs and all reformed Churches shoulde doe well inough notwithstanding we differ from them and they from vs Yea though both of vs differ from the state of the Primitiue and pure Church not in truthe of Faith and vnitie of Doctrine But in matter or manner of Orders Offices Rites and Ceremonies concerning Ecclesiasticall regiment so farre as they are not prescribed by any perpetuall rule other then for the time and state or for order and comelinesse For the difference of these thinges is not âirectlye materiall to saluation neither ought to breake the bonde of peace and Chrystian concorde But they may thinke and wishe well to vs and wee in the name of the Lorde thinke well and wishe good lucke to them Yea to wishe that they had no better state then we haue on condition they had no worse and might alwayes haue as good I thinke all our neighbours reformed Churches woulde bee soone entreated to say AMEN For in what hard case God help them good neighbours they be their selues feele or feare it daily and we heare of it and cease not daily to pray for them and as we may put to our helping hands vnto them Yea our brethren their-selues vpon better aduisement since in their last supplication made to her gratious Maiestie to the high Court of Parliament assembled 1587. pag. 8. do confesse it saying The Churches of God rounde about vs goe to wracke in Fraunce Belgia and a great part of highe Dutche I woulde Scotland had continued in her first loue and that the hands of the builders were strengthened among you But in conclusion neither their state or ours howsoeuer they stande are bound to any perpetuall forme of all the orders and offices of Ecclesiasticall regiment Theirs may perhaps be better for them their aflicted state standing as it doth ours all things in our established state of Gouernment considered is best for vs. Away therefore good brethren with these disordered tearmes This disordred state of ours for they are not spéeches beséeming thankfull and faithfull ministers to God nor louing and obedient subiects to our Prince and Superiours so disorderlie cast forth on the state of Eccle. regiment Which toucheth not onely Eccl. persons against whome perhaps our brethren will make no seruple of coÌscience though their mouthes runne ouer be they neuer so much their brethren their Pastors their betters their superiours their Bish or Arch. to whome their selues peraduenture haue sworne Canonicam obedientiam But these disordred speeches of theirs touch the Magistrate yea their Soueraigne very néere and therefore they are not onely disordred but daungerous speeches Neither ought our brethren to vpbraid our labours vnto vs that weâ haue so long laboured with so little profit to discourage the painefull laborer in the Lords vine-yard and to make our handes weake beecause our worke prospereth not so fast in our hands as we would wishe it did And yet it prospereth God be praysed with more profit then either we see or our brethren like But profit or not profit let vs still labour and thankes be to God then we labour All are not so idle loyterers as afterwarde our brethren complaine wee labour notâ and héere they finde fault with our labours But labour we or loyter we they must still labour infinding fault or else they should loyter for lack of matter in discoursing But howsoeuer they esteeme of our labours the Laborer saith the Lord Luc. 10. is worthie his rewarde And as their-selues afterwarde do note out of S. Paule 1. Timoth. â The elders that rule well are worthie double honor especially they which labour in the worde and doctrine But they tell vs that sentence maketh for their gouerning and not teaching elders whether it doth so or no we shall God willing at large examine on their allegation of the same but admitting it had included any such Elders at that time were their labours to be honoured that ruled well among them and yet perhaps with as little profit And is the laborer in the word and doctrine to be despised and his labour to be left beecause we haue so long laboured with so little profit But for all this discouragement of our brethren let vs not be weary of wel-dooing and commit the euent profit to the Lorde and hearken rather to the Apostles exhortation 1. Cor. 16. Therefore my beloued brethren be ye stedfast vnmouâable aboundant alwayes in the worke of the Lord forasmuch as ye know that your labor is not in vaine in the lorde And this is our comfort against this perswasion of our brethren to leaue that state of ours wherein we haue so long laboured with so little profit And yet we hope we haue not all bene
speaking of the state thereof in the Apostles times that the Church of God was perfect in all her Regiment before there was anie Christian Prince For that might yet haue béene restrayned to that time considering the speciall prerogatiues of that age to haue supplied the want of Christian Princes Notwithstanding it was not euen then so perfect but that S. Paule wished the Regiment thereof to haue béene better And that better euen by christian Princes Else had hee neuer had such troubles nor néeded to haue wished that Agrippa Festus Bernice c. had béene Christians nor haue appealed vnto Nero nor haue had such hinderaunces in his function But when these our bretheren thinking to haue carried this cleare awaye will nowe make a generall rule thereon that the Churche may stande perfecte still in all her Regiment and that in most blessed state with-out anie Christian Princes then GOD helpe poore Christian Princes For being suche poore helpes vnto the Regiment of the Church they may bee as well spared or wished âway which the Anabaptists wish them as to be wished for which S. Paul did wish them saue for the Princes saluation of their owne soules in which respect they are not Christian Princes Nay if this were true whie may they not as well with the verie Anabaptistes set downe this rule to that the Churche of God may stande and doth stand better without them For howsoeuer they séeme here to allure the reader with these godly titles of the Churche of God of perfection in all her regiment and that she standeth at this day in most blessed estate where Christian Princes are not at all and the ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers yet dare we not ascribe these titles of perfection in all her Regiment and of most blessed state vnto the Church of God being militant and trauelling still vnder imperfection But we acknowledge as S. Paule sayeth 1. Cor. 13. that we knowe imperfectly and we teache imperfectly but when that which is perfect shall come then that which is imperfect shall be done away And then shall come indéede the most blessed estate of the Churches perfection in all her regiment But if it be nowe alreadie and that where no Christian Princes are or where the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers then whereto serue the Christian Princes and the Ciuill Magistrates to fauour the Gospel but rather to hinder the perfection of the Church in all regiment and to cause it not to be in most blessed estate For where any Christian Princes are yea the greatest fauourers of the Church of God that euer were it could neuer yet aspire heereto But where they were not and are not there these Learned discoursers tell vs that the Church of God was perfect in all her Regiment and standes in such estate as is most blessed But where was this perfectioÌ in all the Regiment of it before Christian Princes And where standeth yet at this day in most blessed estate where the ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers May not the places be named that we might view theÌ Must we runne to Vtopia for to séeke them out Where was this in Sodome and Gomorra vnder Chedor-laomer where the ciuill Magistrates nor al the people were any great fauourers of the Church of god Where Lot being righteous and dwelling among theÌ in seeing hearing theÌ they vexed his righteous soule froÌ day to day with their vnlawfull deedes Was he his family in most or more blessed estate or the Church of God there better gouerned then in SaleÌ vnder Melchizedeck or then in the Pilgrimage it made vnder Abraham Was the Church of God better vnder Pharao then vnder Moses vnder the tyrants that oppressed theÌ then vnder the Iudges that deliuered theÌ Was the Churches gouernment better vnder Saul then vnder Dauid vnder Ieroboam Achab Manasses other Idolatrous Princes then vnder SalomoÌ Iosaphat Iosias Ezechias other godly Princes is it more perfect in all her regiment and standeth in more blessed estate at this day vnder the great Turke in Europe vnder the Sophie in Asia vnder the great Chan in India where also great partes of the Church are dispersed then vnder godly Christian Princes in Englande Germanie Scotlande Denmarke Suecia Polonia Hungarie and all other places where Christianitie is openly professed at this day Is the regiment of the Church of God better in more blessed estate in Italie vnder the Popes tyrannie or in France in Spaine in Flaunders c. where the Christian Princes are not the greatest fauourers of the light of the Gospell then here in England where her Maiestie fauoureth the same so tenderly and hath ventered her state life so often for it O vnthankefulnesse O blind what should I call it Malice No but selfe willed opinion the to deface the good estate of the Church of God wherin we are vnder such a right Defender of the faith defended sheilded from all our enemies in a farre more blessed estate then we deserue will make such an odious comparison as this is But as the old saying is itch and ease can no man please But if the Church be so imperfect in all her regiment vnder our most gratious and true Christian Prince here in England if our estate be so disordered and so little blessed in comparison of theirs at this day where the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers why do not these Learned discoursers take their course thether where the Church is so perfect in all her regiment euen as they would haue it in most blessed estate that they can wish it If this be a matter of such moment necessitie as they would beare vs in hande why go they not thether where they say it is euen at this day they may goe thether when they will No I warrant you they wil none of it on that price but will tarrie here stil trouble their brethren though they haue it not No no whatsoeuer is pretended to get that they would haue if they can-not haue it they haue learned this or they may easily doe if they trie experience that it is good kéeping themselues wel when they are well And welfare a good Christian Prince that fauors the Church of God and the Gospell of Iesus Christ when all is done But what meane they by these glaunces that the Church of God doth stande at this day in most blessed estate where the Ciuill Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers Do they meane by ciuill Magistrates as they did before where they sayd Whatsoeuer it please the Ciuill Magistrate to call or account indifferent c. Referring this terme to our most gracious Prince Soueraigne But I thinke they do not meane so for as they speak more at large saying Where the ciuil Magistrates are not the greatest fauourers noting many or more then one some other estates which they coÌpare with ours so
they here giue theÌ an harder title to be not the greatest fauourers then that I hope they will say they implie our gratious Soueraigne in that tearme If then they meane that we liue vnder such a blessed Prince as fauoureth the Gospell doe these men speake it in good sooth as indéede sooth it is or doe they Iest or speake it but for fashion sake But howe-soeuer they séeme to glaunce hereat for they neither say it in expresse wordes but as it were by comparison doe séeme to inferre as much in telling vs of other places in the worlde where the Princes are not the greatest fauourers notwithstanding they tell vs neither what thing it is whereof they are not the greatest fauourers But I ghesse that in this their Rhetoricall breuitie they meane that they fauour not the Gospell or the Church of God For it séemeth they referre it not to this Regiment that themselues fauour and desire For so they knowe that her Maiestie being also not the greatest fauourer of their desired Regiment they might conclude that the Churche of Englande which they crie out of to bee in a state disordered should bée in that most blessed estate which they desire They séeme therefore to meane this that her Maiestie is indéede a fouourer of the Gospell or Church of God and yet the state of the Churche of God vnder Her Maiestie is in an vnperfect lesse blessed and more disordered estate than it is where the Princes are not the greatest fauourers of the Church of God and of his Gospell Which if it be their meaning as I woulde be loath to gather of their wordes anie thing beyonde their meaning so I had rather they expounded themselues or that their wordes néeded not an expositer as well many times as an aunswere Nowe then if their meaning be thus that her Maiestie is a fauourer of the Gospell and of the Church of God although this in some sense may séeme but a colde and sclender commendation bestowed on her Maiestie to bee but a fauourer as though thee liked well ynough thereof and liked of others that professed it but her selfe were not so zealous a professour and louer of the Gospell yet construyng all this to the best interpretation of her fauour thereunto that her Maiestie is a great fauourer of the Gospell of God and of his Church howe then doth shee so highlie fauour the same and yet not suffer the Church of God to be so perfecte in all her Regiment as where no Christian but Heathen Princes are and not to be in so blessed estate as it is vnder those Ciuill Magistrates that are not the greatest fauourers Meaning indéede vnder a gentle name for reuerence sake are no fauourers at all but so much as they can hate and persecute the Gospell and Church of God and yet will they nill they suffer it more to florishe herein than her Maiestie doeth béeing so great a fauourer of the same What a foule rebuke vnder pretence of commendation is this to her Maiestie Yea what a kinde of fauouring call ye this when the not fauouring of the enemie is better for the Regiment of the Church than the fauourers loue Indéede accidentalliâ thinges may fall out so cleane contrarie as he that thought to kill his enemie did him more good in thrusting him thorough and opening that impostume settered within him then all his friendes and Phisitions that could not helpe him But what gra-mercie was that to him Whereas directly of it selfe is not this threatned of God that he will take awaye a good Prince in his wrath and giue an euill Prince to punishe the wickednesse of his people and doeth not God promise as a great blessing to his Church that Kinges should be the foster fathers and Queenes should be the noursing mothers thereof But by these men they had a better Regiment when they had Pharao to nourse them with drowning of the infantes in the water and oppressing their parentes on the lande and when Herode bathed the infantes in their owne bloud Did GOD meane they shoulde haue suche Pappe with an Hatchet and that Princes should be nourses on that fashion Or did hee rather meane that when he would sende such Princes as should fauour his Gospel and his Church euen as the good nource comforteth and guideth well the childe and is as it were an-other Parent to it vnder whom the childe battelleth and is well brought vppe so next vnder GOD our heauenly Father wée should be nourished fed comforted defended and guided till we growe to our perfect age in Iesu Christe vnder the godlie Gouernement of our Christian Princes And is this that is promised for so great a blessing turned to a curse And the curse turned to so great a blessing God is able indéede to turne all thinges to good God had his Church still euen in the most dreadfull persecutions that euer were and the gold is siner that is tryed in the fornace seuen times So that this redoundeth in the end both to the greater glorie of God and to the better confirmation of his Church But what can we conclude hereon That the Church when such hauocke is made in the congregation and it is dispersed here and there is then more perfect in al her Regiment and in most blessed state S. Paule saith Rom. 5. Where sinne abounded grace did more abound But what shall we say then saieth S. Paule Rom. 6. Shall we continue still in sinne that grace may abound God forbid And in those dayes of more iniquitie abounding in the time of planting amonge the Gentiles the faith and Gospell of Iesus Christe the most parte of the Gentiles raged and the people imagined vaine thinges the kinges of the earth assembled and the rulers came together against the Lorde and against his Christe Al-be-it the faith tooke rooting amonge some both Princes and people And GOD in that extraordinarie time dealt extraordinarilie with them both with extraordinarie gifts and extraordinarie offices Whereby he so helped and beautified that Primitiue estate of the Churche of Christe among all those troubles persecutions dissipations that the Church séemed rather to flourish theÌ to be oppressed to be In most blessed estate in some respects when in other respectes it was in most pitifull estate as S. Paule sayth 2. Cor. 6. of Gods helpe at such times For he sayth I haue heard thee in a time accepted and in the day of saluation haue I succoured thee Behold now the accepted time behold nowe the day of saluation We giue no occasion of offence in anie thing that our ministerie should not be reprehended but in all thinges wee approue our selues as the ministers of God in much patience in afflictions in necessities in distresses in stripes in prisons in tumults in labours By watchings by fastinges by purenesse by knowledge by long suffering by kindnesse by the holie Ghost by loue vnfeined by the worde of truthe by the power
successe that in steede of true doctrine followed all maner of corruptions of the same At leastwise this is a readie way to make it to haue folowed For we must here againe temper mollifie this peremptorie spéech Sithe God be praysed it hath not so folowed in the whole Church euerie part therof neither in the whole corps of doctrine and euerie part thereof as ignoraunce heresies Idolatrie superstition c. For then the faith of Christe had vtterly sayled contrarie to the promise of Christ Matth. 16. and the gates of hell had preuayled against his Church these Good intentes I graunt hauing doone much hurt euen in all places at leastwise in one thing or another And likewise I graunt that on this occasion among others the Discipline degenerated into intollerable tyrannie and externall domination Whereof ensued all vnbridled licence of vngodlie liuing Howbeit wheras you conclude saying To be short the exchange of the ordinance of God and Christ brouâât in nothing but the Deuill and Antichrist This is somewhat too short a conclusion on this matter and too sharpe also to impute all this to the exchange of the ordinance of God and Christe Yee spake before of good intentes of men contrarie to the good pleasure of Gods will expressed in his holie woorde And if yée meane such exchange of the ordinaunce of God and Christe you say something but to vs or to this present question betwéene vs nothing But if you thinke that the Churche of God is so necessarilie and perpetuallie tyed to all those Offices which eyther God meaning the Father or Iesus Christe his sonne our Lorde being God also did eyther himselfe ordayne or the Apostles or the Churche in their dayes ordayned that shée can-not let goe some of those offices and bring in other some still retayning those that are by Christe and his Apostles ordayned to be perpetuall in his Churche this is a great errour in you For God himselfe ordained all the Leuiticall and sacrificing Priesthood and other offices no we cleane ceassed And Christe whom ye will confesse to be God also did his owne selfâ ordayne Apostles and Euangelistes c. And these were the principall offices that were established and yet euen these are ceassed and gone also So that here we sée the manifest exchange of the ordinance of God and Christ. And wil you conclude straight waies hereupon Is there a change of the ordinance of God and Christ Then to be short it brought nothing but the Deuill and Antichrist Yea but will you say you take vs now too shorte for we meane not such changes as God and Christ made but such changes as men make of good ententes contrarie to the good pleasure of Gods will expressed in his holie worde Well if that be your meaning what is that to vs Or else how doth your argument followe For God be blessed none of all these vnhappie successes are hapned yet to vs and I hope and pray that God will blesse vs still from them Haue not we the onely and whole doctrine of Gods trueth Doe wée maintaine anie errors No themselues can not denie it I report mee to these Learned discoursers owne testimonie in their Preface that we differ not in matter or in the substance of Religion which hath in diuerse assemblies abroade and at home beene disputed resolued and nowe publikely maintayned for our true and holy faith If then we mainetaine the true and holy faith and differ not from themselues as they say in substance of Religion can these spéeches be charitablie or truely applied vnto vs that we bring in or maintaine nothing but the Diuell and Antichriste Or doe we bring in or maintaine the Deuill and Antichrist So hardly vnder the name of the olde Fathers these spéeches runne against vs their Brethren whom they confesse to agrée with them selues in doctrine and who is this Antichrist that they meane If it bee the Pope haue not we driuen him out and all his errorâ and professe and Teach the only truthe of God And if we teach the truthe haue we the Deuill Or rather may we not say with our Sauiour Iesus Christ both in our defence we haue no Deuill and demaunde of you If wee speake the truth whie doe ye not beleeue vs O Brethren take héede of such bitter spéeches as prepostorous and eager zeale howbeit grounded on good entent made the Iewes breake foorth against Iesus Christe with such reprochfull tearmes as these are And although these Discourses quotation here 2. Thess. 2.12 be both impertinent to the matter in hande and also to the proouing of the bringing in the Deuill and Antichrist and least of all as we trust in God shall any whit touch vs yet sée here with howe sharpe a censure they be alleaged against vs which wordes are these that all they might be damned which beleeued not the truthe but had pleasure in vnrighteousnesse But sithe by their owne confession wee are so farre from pleasure in vnrighteousnesse that we both beleeue and professe the truthe so well as they or any other doe we more repose our selues vpon the mercie and righteousnesse of God then that we feare to be damned for these thinges or for the rash iudgementes of our Bretheren For whie to those that be in Iesus Christ there is no condemnation And if God iustifie vs who can condemne vs But what is now the conclusion of all this drift Wherefore if we minde such a reformation as shall be acceptable to God and profitable to his Church we must throughlie be resolued to set vp no newe kinde of ministerie of our owne inuention neither for teaching nor for discipline in the Eccles. state but bring all thinges to that most perfect and absolute order which God himselfe hath established by his worde We haue indéede minded such a reformation And God be praysed for it who gaue vs the minde that he hath giuen vs the meanes also to doe the thing we minded And we beléeue the Church of Englande for the publike state thereof hath such a reformation as is acceptable to God and profitable to his Churche And would be yet more acceptable vnto God more profitable to his Church if it were not for such vnnecessary schismes and hindraunces of our Brethren And if among vs beeing reformed from the Popish errors and abuses there remaine any particuler defectes or personall faultes they also being conuinced so to be may be reformed in such good order as shall not be preiudiciall to the gouernement and reformation that is established And if we must as these discoursers say be throughly resolued to set vp no new kinde of ministerie of our owne inuention neither for teaching neither for discipline in the Ecclesiasticall state Surely then for any thing I sée we must be throughly resolued not to set vp either the officers for teaching whom these men call Doctors or the officers for
owne assertions Ye say héere The Ministery is deuided into two functions that is Pastors and Doctors or Teachers And when yee made this requeste in the Page precedent ye said This order we thought good to obserue in describing the Ministery of the Church as by which both the distinction and communication of al offices and seruices in the Church might most plainely appeare Did yee meane these 2. onelie whome heere onelie ye call Ministers Or did ye meane all your 4. Offices for the which ye request this immunity If ye did how are now these 2. only ministers as indéede yee say heere the truer of the twaine and better than your Counterpoyson that saith Christe hath expreslye in his woorde sette downe sufficient ordinary Ministers of Exhorters Teachers Elders Deacons c. But nowe as you héerein do counter your Counterpoyson deuiding the Ministery into two functions Pastors and Doctors which I would not haue forgotten nor contraried any more héereafter being a difference not of methode but of matter So I pray yee withall remember this that the forme of the Scottish election deuides not the Ministers into two distincte offices or officers but makes them both all one And this also is an other difference of matter or substance not of methode Besides that the order of the Churche of England vsed at Geneua maketh first the election and office of Ministers whom they make to be al one with Pastors and after them the election and office of Elders then of Deacons And when al these 3. are at large set down theÌ they say We are not ignorant that the Scriptures make mention of a fourth kind of Ministers left to the Church of Christe which also are very profitable where time and place doth permit But for lack of opportunity in this our dispersion and exile we can-not wel haue the vse thereof And would to God it were not neglected where better occasion serueth These Ministers are called Teachers or Doctors Whose office is to instructe and teach the faithfull in sounde doctrine Prouiding with all diligence that the purity of the Gospell be not corrupted either through ignorance or euil opinions Notwithstanding considering the present state of things we comprehend vnder this title such meanes as God hath in his church that it should not be left desolate nor yet his doctrine decay for default of Ministers thereof Therefore to tearme it by a worde more vsuall in these our dayes we may cal it the order of Schooles Wherin the highest degree and most annexed to the Ministery and gouernment of the Church is the exposition of Gods worde which is contayned in the olde and newe Testaments But because men can-not so well profite in that knowledge except they be first instructed in the tongues and humaine Sciences for now God worketh not commonly by miracles it is necessary that seede be sowne for the time to come to the entent that the Church bee not left baren and waste to our posterity And that Scholes also be erected and Colledges maintayned with iust and sufficient stipendes wherein youth may bee trayned in the knowledge and feare of God that in their ripe age they may proue worthy members of our Lord Iesus Christ whether it be to rule in ciuil policie or to serue in the spiritual Ministery or else to liue in godly reuerence subiectioÌ By this order of the English Congregation in Geneua many thinges are different not in methode but in matter and substance from the plat forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernment that these our Learned discoursers now set downe Firste héere is but three offices as of necessitie vrged Ministers Elders and Deacons Secondlye the Ministers that haue the first place are the Pastors and not Doctors according to the forme of the new communion booke to the Counterpoyson but contrary to these Discoursers and to the Frutefull Sermon vpon 1. Cor. 12. Thirdly they giue these Doctors the fourthe place and call them a fourth kinde of ministery But they vrge them not but say it is very profitable where time and place doeth permitte Fourthly they referre these Doctors to the Schooles and Colleges and call them the order of schooles Fiftlie they tie them not only to teaching of Diuinity and to the function of the spirituall Ministery but also to bee professors of morall ciuil and politike professions Howbeit they make the chiefest and highest degree in these orders of Schooles and most annexed to the Ministerye and gouernement of the Church to be the expositors of Gods worde which we cal Doctors or professors of Diuinity And belike these our Learned discoursers miss-understanding these words make them the chiefeste and highest office in the Churches gouernement All these differences are in substaunce and matter not in methode onely But our Learned Discoursers héere do not onely in these materiall things differ from the English congregation in Geneua and from the Scottish but from theÌselues also For if the office of teaching be the chiefe and principall office that is in the Church how then is this true that followeth héere The Ministery is deuided into 2. functions they that exercise the first are called Pastors the other are called Doctors or Teachers Should they not rather haue said they that exercise the firste are called Doctors or Teachers and the other Pastors Except wee shall haue another quirkâ founde out betweene these words office and function or betwéene these wordes first chiefe and principall For if ye will say ye meane by the word first the first place not the dignitie ye neyther giue the Pastor the first place and ye call the Teachers office to whome yee giue the first place the chief and principal office that is in the Church But what Do ye meane the Doctor shal ouer-rule al the residue No God wot For when it comes to the gouernment in Ecclesiasticall matters except it bee for an Ergo in the Schooles I am afrayed Maister Doctor were as good come last as first or left cleane out or but permitted in time and place as the Geneua Scottish forme do say for any great gouernment that shal be allowed him But let him shift for his share of gouernment as he can he is in place alreadie and admitted first and now let vs heare what shal be his office The office of a Doctor is to teach as the very name doth declare but yet euery Teacher is not ment thereby for it appertaineth to Pastors also to teach yet this later is distinct from the former Sith the office of a Doctor is to teach as the very name doeth declare I maruell that not long ago the very name of Doctor was so hissed out both of the Schooles and of the Church by some of these our chiefest reformers that it coulde not bee named but in disdaine reproch And now the very name of Doctor is not onely admitted but thus aduanced that it is named the firste the chiefe
shoulde either there must neuer bee assemblies and Councels such as were at Ierusalem among the Apostles for then their-selues confesse there can-not bee aequalitye Wee confesse say the Learned discoursers pag. 114 that in euerye assemblie or company some one of necessitie must haue this prerogatiue to order and dispose the same with reason So that if one muste haue preeminence aboue the residue then is there not so much equality as before and after And so for that time wherein of all other they shoulde bee moste Euangelicall by this moste greate aequality among them beeing left off they should not bee Euangelicall at all And therfore they may be Euangelicall well inough both in suche assemblies and without them hauing not suche most great aequality as is héere imagined Neither can I sée how this summa equalitas this most greate aequalitye can at anie time consist among the Pastors For if Caluines reason bee good vpon Galath 2. ver as we haue heard that greater honor speaking there of the honor of dignity should be geuen to those Pastors that haue greater gifts and all the Pastors in one Citie haue not giftes alike then not onely this inequality of dignity must bee of the Pastor to the people but also of the inaequality of the Pastors ariseth an inequality of the honor in dignity among the Pastors The reasons that our little English booke of the iudgement of a most reuerend and Learned man c. alleageth for the Bishop of God to bee all one with Pastor are the places cited already by our owne Learned discoursers alleaged as Ephes. 4.11 1. Tim. 3. Phil. 1.1 and therefore I passe them ouer to the places where they are aunswered come to the 2. kinde of Bishop the Bishop of man for on him lyeth now all the controuersie The humain saith Danaeus is when vnto some one out of the pastors there is giuen vpon the residue of the men which are also of the same order that is vpon other pastors and priestes of the Church a power or prelacy which is not indeed the chiefe but some it is If the bishoprick of man be no worse than this definition maketh it I sée not but that it is a good bishoprick yea why may it not be counted all one with the Euangelicall bishopricke Shall I say as much nay more then that which is most equall with all the pastors For this wee haue shewed by manifest prooues out of the word of God it self euen in the example of Tim. by the example of Iames Act. 15. 21. Gal. 2. eueÌ out of Caluine Beza and by the exposition of manie the auncient and best approued Fathers by the track of the vniuersal practise from in the Apostles times by the testimonies of more than 2. or 3. most auncient credible witnesses that the bishop of man as he is héere defined is the very bishop of God also As for the 3. bishop of the Diuell let him go to the Diuell from whence he came We haue God be praised nought to do with him And howsoeuer our Br. might warble at the bishop if any were so euil a man that he might be called the Diuel himself as Christ called Iudas yet was his bishoprike of God We haue none to whome is giuen the summa potestas We acknowledge it to be only in Iesus Christ which is the only high bishop of our soules If he be the bishop of the Diuel to whom alone is giuen ouer other churches imperatoria dictatoria potestas an imperiall dictatorial power then be our bishops in England no bishops of the Diuel which haue no such most high imperial or dictatorly power Whosoeuer should so say of them should most manifestly slaunder them of whom a sclaunderer is that let the Etymology of the name Diabolus tel you As for our bishops they are of the number of those bishops of God Of whom this most reuerend man saith That the same were subiecte to Magistrates thoughe prophane appeareth not onely by the example of Christ the highest Prieste and of the Apostles but also by the expresse words of Paule 1. Tim. 2 Luke 12.13 and such God be praised bee our bishoppes and such were all these holy and auncient bishops that I haue mentioned Howbeit though the Pope may go in this crewe whether this definition suffice for all Popish Arch-bishops and Popish B I doubt mée of it For they haue no such highest power though they would But they are rather his slaues that hath it so it comes all to one reckoning for them so long as they like it and maintaine it in him and serue vnder him and as néere as they can or dare aspire to some part of his tyrannicall pride and diuelish vsurpation But God forbid that we shoulde so thinke when we cannot so say except we say amisse of any of our Reuerend Fathers bishops ouer vs that haue renounced him nor taken anie such power on them ouer either prince pastor or people in their gouernmeÌts But to annswere Danaeus with the iudgement of as reuerend and learned a man as is himselfe Let Danaeus his selfe aunswere himselfe what manner of superiority he alloweth in Bish. For writing vpoÌ the 5. chapter of the 1. Tim. ver 22. Vnto whome the election of a pastor doth belong After hee hath taken it from prince from patrone from praelate neither yet that it perteyneth to all the Church alike whiche were to disturbe all thinges neither to anie one because none in the Church saue only Christe is ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã the gouernour by himselfe alone but of his arguments of election we shall sée God willing afterwarde at the length he saithe Neque eriam obstat c. Neither also doth this let it that the Bishop is of the fathers called ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã President as though hee onely might order the whole Church after his fancy and therein aduaÌce whome he pleased for that worde ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã a Praesident declareth onely an order that he which was called the Bishop ought to sitte among his colleagues and fellow Priestes or Elders but it giueth not vnto him a kingly or a chiefe and Pretor-like power vppon the Church Ambrose in lib. de dignitate Sacerdotum cap. 6. doth confirme that whiche wee saye If thine eye shal be simple thy whole bodie shal-be cleare that is If that the B. which deseued to rule the bodie be bewtified with holy simplicitie and innoceÌcie all the Church shineth with the brightnes of the light But if thy eie be euil c. That is if the B. which seemed to giue light to the body subiect to him be shadowed with the blindnesse of wicked behauiour what shal the other meÌbers do that are bereft the light of the eies That is to say what shall the seculer multitude do wheÌ with vnlawfull actions forbiddeÌ the B. shal prouoke the
priestes did administer it cheefely by them-selues Notwithstanding both out of the inferior orders and also out of the lay persons if they had noted any to be fit for this office they adioyned them to be ioint-laborers with theÌ After the same manner did the bishops and the preestes administer also the fourth part of deliuering the doctrine the which is out of the diuine bookes being expounded to exhort vnto the duties of Godlines to dissuade from sinnes and from all thinges that may on any part slacken or hinder the course of a godlie and holy life to reprehende and chide those that sinne to comfort the penitent although the bishops the priests or elders cheefly did perform this function because that it required so much the great authority 1. Tim. 5. The fift part the Catechismes they commended now to the priestes nowe to the Deacons nowe to the ministers of the inferior orders euen as euery one appeared more apt vnto this kinde of teaching And so was Origene the Catechizer at Alexandria The sixt booke of the Ecclesiasticall history of Eusebius of Caesarea Chap. 13. and 20. Also the sixt part the holy disputations they yeelded to euery one that was more apt thereto although for the most part the bishops their selues gouerned them The seuenth part priuate calling vpon admonition the byshops also studied to doe it by themselues Howbeit they alwayes exhort edeuery one of the preestes or elders and the greater of the inferiour orders to doe the same 1. Thes. 5. Therefore the readers ought to exercise the ministery of the Doctrine by reciting the diuine scriptures but the bishops by interpreting and by teaching by exhorting by disputing and by priuate calling vpon and moreouer both by reading and by catechising if that peculier readers and catechisers want Furthermore they committed the catechismes to certain Prieests and Deacons or else to those also that were chosen therunto out of the inferior orders As also they admitted out of those vnto the offices of interpreting and of teaching and of disputing whomesoeuer they found apt for these offices in what order soeuer they were of the holy ministery yet also as it is sayde out of the laity But in these offices that thing is diligentlie to bee marked that the holie ghoste did in-deede so disperse vnto them that were his men these giftes of teaching that vnto one he would giue the gift and singuler faculty of interpreting and making plain the scriptures vnto whom notwithstanding he giueth not with the like dexterity and with so happy successe to teach and confirme the points of our religion out of the diuine scriptures or also luckely to defende them in disputing But to another he giueth a peculier and notable faculty of exhorting the brethren out of the scriptures of admonishinge of reprehending and also of catechising and of priuate calling vpon vnto whom notwithstanding he giueth not to excell in other giftes of teaching This varietie of the gifts of the holy Ghost wee dayly find by triall in those that do publikely teach the people of Christ which are Christes true Churches and suffer themselues to be altogether ruled by the holy Ghoste These Churches doe religiously note what spirituall faculties are giuen to eche one in the Church and doe so much as lieth in them apply euery man to that point that appertayneth to his function Wherefore vnto the particuler parts of teaching they giue particuler ministers if so bee they finde among the men that appertaine vnto them those that are of the Lorde singularly made and furnished to the particuler office of teaching But because it is necessary for the saluation of Gods people that no part of the teaching which I haue reckoned to be 7 partes be vtterlie ouer-passed in any Church euery one of the Ministers yea and of the layty also in what place soeuer he bee placed in the Church ought to exercise so farre foorth as hee is able all these partes of teachinge both of reading and of interpreting and of teaching and of exhorting and of Catechizing and of disputing and of calling vpon See how far oure learned Brethren differ from this graue iudgement of Bucer and Zanchius for the exercise of these offices Yea euery one ought to take vpon him to him selfe so manie of these functions that are to bee administred and so much part of euery one of them as vnto howe many and to how much part of euery one hee shall perceyue himselfe to be furnished of the holy ghoste Let the example of an house orderly appointed and distributed bee considered wherein the Father of the householde about other businesses the Mother of the housholde about other the sonnes and the Daughters about other the Man-seruauntes and the Mayde-seruaunts about other Heere while all are present and in health euery one in-deede goeth about his owne office but if any of the Family bee absent or bee not in good health and there happen a necessity of some seruice eche one so runneth to helpe that necessity that often times the men goe about the womens offices and the Women the Offices of the men the Maysters the offices of the seruauntes and the seruaunts the offices of the Maysters Now as Zanchius alleageth this out of Bucer concerning the seueral and mutuall vse of the Ecclesiasticall offices in so many poynts different from these our Learned brethren and that in the allowance of the church of England so hee proceedeth Concerning also the Clericall Discipline The thirde part of the Clericall Discipline is a peculier subiection Wherein the Clearkes that are of inferior degree and Ministery doe submitte themselues to them which in order and Ministery are superior The Lorde hath taught vs this part of discipline both by his example who ordeyned his Disciples that should become the Doctours or Teachers of Gods elected throughout all the worlde by a peculier mastershippe vnto this office and by a certaine Domesticall Discipline whome the apostles imitating euery one of them also had his Disciples the which he woulde frame to exercise orderly the holy Ministery For euery more difficult function of life requireth also a peculiar perpetuall doctrine Institution and custody as we may see in the studies of phylosophy and in the military institution Which Lycurgus throughly weighing did so ordeyne the common weale of the Lacedemonians as Xenophon witnesseth that no order in the common weale shoulde be without his proper office of a master And Plato also in his Lawes and common weale requireth that nothing at all shoulde bee among the Citizens ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã vnkept Heereupon also our Lorde when as he would haue those who are his to be so set together one with another and to cleaue together he verily putteth euery one of those that are his vnder others of whom as it were of members that are of more ample and larger spreadinge power and efficacye hee shoulde bee kept mooued and ruled The same thing hath the holye Ghoste
behaue themselues as the lawes of God and the godly ordinaunces of the Church and realme hath in that behalfe prouided And that those which forgetting their calling are puffed vp with anye ambitious desire of exercising Lordshippe shoulde bee repressed and if they haue any suche title or office shoulde exercise their Lordship in humility without ambition or pride But this simply debarreth not the exercise of all kinde of Lordship in any competent dignity reuerent title of honor and superiour authority which is the question but rather confirmeth it so to be exercised with painfull diligence and ready care without slouthfulnesse with hospitalitie loue of the flock without couetousnesse of lucre with modeste humility without ambitious desire of exercising Lordship We allow here this collection out of Peter that he eahorteth them to painfull diligence because âhey were B or Ouerseers to a ready care bicause they were Pastors âherefore should labour for loue of the flocke not for lucre like hyrelings to modest humility because their chiefe dignity in that they were Elders was to excell in godlines that they might bee an example to the flock All this likewise is true their excellencie in godlinesse is aboue al the excellencie in any dignity or Ecclesiastical honor that they can be exalted vnto but that that followeth which can-not be except they submit themselues and their liues to the common rule of other men is somewhat darkely and straungely spoken For if our brethren meane by this submission of themselues and their liues to the common rule of other men that they should haue no superior Ecclesiastical authority ouer other men but that all other men were aequal and alike in all Ecclesiastical gouernment vnto them or rather that the ouerseers of other men shoulde in their rule ouersight be vnder inferior to the rule and that also to the common rule of other men this were a manifest absurdity in al reason and a plaine contradiction to it selfe Neither did Peter or any of the Apostles so submit themselues neither were Timothy or Titus bidden by S. Paul so to submit themselues neither doth Peter here or any where els wil any Bish. Pastors or Elders so to do But for al their humulity of minde and diligânce of body in teaching c. neuerthelesse to ouersee to commaund to rebuke to rule gouerne other men Ministers and all according to their place of calling and authority of God committed vnto them And they that thus do and embrace withall these most excellent vertues they should be sure to bee plentifully rewarded by him who only as here is truely said deserueth to be called the chiefe of all Elders Pastors Bishops Neither is there any at least that I know or I thinke that our Brethren can name except that man of sin the Pope which claimeth any such title to be called the chiefe of al Elders Pastors and Bishops sure I am none deserueth so to bee called As for any of our Arch-bishops whose dignitye as it conteyneth no such absolute either power or title so it stretcheth nothing néere to all or to halfe or to a quarter and but scarse to a handfull in comparison of all Elders Pastors and Bishops and is bownded onelye to this little corner and portion of the Church in the realme of England both they and all we still acknowledging this that our Lorde Iesus Christe only deserueth to be called and onely is indeede the chiefe of all Elders Pastors B. as heere is said And also if these wordes following bee likewise so absolutely generally vnderstood To whome only these honorable names of Archipresbyter Archiepiscopus Archipoimen and such like do properly agree we agree also that they agree only in that proper sense to him As Christ in an absolute vnderstanding of good saith Luc. 18. None is good but onely God And as S Paule saith to the Rom. 16. namely to Timothy 1. Tim â â7 To the King eternall immortall inuisible wise onely be honor glory for euer and euer And 1. Tim. 6 15- 16. speaking of the comming of the comming of our L Iesus Christ whome in his times he that blessed one and only Prince King of kings and Lord of lordâ shall shew who only hath immortality c. And as the same our sauiour Christ willeth vs not to be called father or Maister For we haue one Father and Maister which is in heauen to whome onely these honorable titles do indeede properly agree speaking properlye of proper agreement in the fowrth and highest manner of propriety But if we make al these honorab titles so properly to agree vnto Christ that none of them may be vnderstood included or communicated to any of the Eccl. Politicall nor oeconomicall Ministers of Christe so that none at al may be called either good or King or Prince or Wise or Father or Maister by participation of any portion of the goodnes power wisdom fatherhoode Maistershippe c. of God as offices gifts or graces imparted to vs while we should hypocritically or zealously pretend to honour him and to séeke his only glory we should both vnthankfully indéede not acknowledge his goodnes and gratious giftes whiche recommende to vs the more glory in him and disobedientlie dishonor him in his ordinances and higher powers that he hath placed ouer vs. But where now doth God in this or any other expresse or inclusiue place of all the Scripture challenge to himself all these honorable names to agree onely and properly vnto him The honorable name that Saint Peter onely Heere ascribeth to Christe is ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã cheefe or principall pastor Which Title I neuer hearde of any other that it was giuen vnto or taken vpon him As for Archipresbytor a principal priest or elder which tearme it is not in vse with vs nor Arch-priest as our aduersaries cal it bicause in the office of Priesthoode Eldership or Pastorship we acknowledge all to haue one office vnder the high-pastor of our soules and auncient of daies Iesus Christ. Onelie sith that the name Archbishop signifiing a chief or principall ouer-seer is no where in the Scrip. properly nor not properly applyed vnto him shall we dare to say as wee maye of some other peculiar titles and names of God Iehouah Omnipotent c. when as God now then of his goodnes vouchsafeth to coÌmunicat to some his especial Minist so honorab names belonging to himself Adonai Ellohim the name of the Lordes Christ or anoynted c. that these hon names Archipresbyter Archiepis do so only properly agree vnto Iesus Christ that none other in no other conditional sense may be called by them I thinke this can not wel be prooued by scripture nor any reason or argument will inferre it If we think this word ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã that is Prince by contraction prefixed and in corporate to the other words ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã
in their seuerall writings with so many vniuersall consents euen in the best allowed both generall and provinciall Counsels vpon so grounded reasons to so good necessary purposes in such lawfull cases but yet with such conditions bowndes as is aforesaid did ordaine receaue continue the same and since that also such notable Protestants of our owne age in the Churches reformed Luther Melancthon Zuinglius Oecolampadius Bullinger Peter Martyr Gualter Hemingius Zanchius yea and Caluine himselfe as wee haue heard alloweth the institution and practise thereof I sée not how our learned brethren discoursers can rightly finde any at all of these vices that Peter héere reproueth as doing great hurte among the Ministers of the Church to be directly conteyned in this honorable name of Archb. but that it may be well vsed with paineful diligence ready care and with modest humility to the greate benefite among the Ministers of the Churche to the suppressing of all these foresaid three notable many other as notable vices factions and schisines disorders consusions errors heresies when any such begin to spring and breake out among the ministers of the Church to suppresse them by the godly industry and necessary authoritye of the Bish. and Archb. iurisdictions But our brethren héere do make these reasons first for Archbishop For as the Apostle calleth our Sauiour Christ in this place the chief pastor so in the 2. chap. v. 25. âe calleth him both the Pastor Bishop of our soules Wherfore as he only is our chiefe Pastor or Archipoimen so is he also our onely Archbishop This argument were to some purpose if we simply denied Christ to be our Archbishop or to be our onelye Archbishop in that sense that is equiualent there to Arch-pastor For as our brethren heere theirselues confesse it is to be vnderstod of him who only deserueth to be called the chiefe of all Elders pastors and Bishops In whech sense we not only acknowledge him to be the only Archpastor but to be the onely Arch-elder if we may so tearme him because he is our elder brother or rather Archpriest betokening the chiefe dignity of that his office and also to be the onely Archbishop But sith we nor any good Protestant nor anye of the auncient Fathers vnderstande Archbishop in that sense Therefore this argument a comparatiâ and of the similitude of the one tearme to the other is disparatum and much vnlike The one is a plaine tearme expresly ascribed in the Scripture vnto Christe and not the other and therefore if our brethrens arguments from the expresse scriptures be good then haue we better liberty to deny their reasons goodnesse for this tearme Yea if this reason be of good consequence as the Apostle calleth our Sauiour Christ in this place the chiefe Pastor so in the 2. chap. the 25. verse hee calleth him both the Pastor and Bishop of our soules If these places follow thus as the one so the other why may we not better conclude thus But these honourable names the Pastor and Bishop of our soules are not so absolutely in all senses proper onely vnto Christe but that vnder Christe in some good and true senses they are also competible to other men Therefore these tearmes of Pastor but more especially of Archbishop which in no place is ascribed to Christe are not so absolutely in all senses proper onely vnto Christ but that vnder Christ in some good and true senses they are also competible to other meÌ So that if we consider their owne argument better it maketh not so muche with them as against them Now as they reason thus on these two tearmes Arch-pastor Archbishop so againe for the thirde tearme Archipresbyter they like wise say And that the name Archipresbyter or chiefe of Elders pertayneth to no mortall man may be seene by this place where S. Peter that excellent and high Apostle who if anye man coulde might as-well as anye haue challenged that name durste not call him-selfe other then ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã a fellowe Elder no not when hee sought authoritye to him-selfe by that name to bee bolde to exhorte the Elders of the Church No man as I said before among vs in Englande hath anye suche name as Archipresbyter Archpriest or chiefe of Elders and therefore it is needelesse to challenge the discipline of the Church of Englande for that which all Englande séeeth we haue not But if our brethren think with an awke stroake through the sides of this title of Arch-prieste to wounde the title of Archbishop inferring thus If the name of Archbishop bee allowable which is the higher title then muche more is the name of Arche-presbyter allowable whiche is the lower But that it is not allowable therefore muche lesse the greater of Archbishop The Maior of this argument being distinguished the defect therof foorthwith appeareth True it is that where they vse the title of Archprieste they vse it as inferiour both to Arch-bishop and to Bishop because they take it onelye as a chiefe or principall person among a number of those that are but méere Priestes or Elders without any Episcopal superiority And so likewise Arch-deacon as a chiefe or principall person among a number of other Deacons And thus also vse we the honorable name of Archb for a chiefe or principal person among the Bishops that is to wit one to whome among some other of the same order and Ministery a certaine superior dignity aboue some the residue of his fellowes is attributed In which sense also this name Arch-priest or Arch-elder though we vse it not might of others as is aforesaid be vsed wel inough But bicaus the name Prieste or pastorall Elder hath a néerer reference to the office which is al one and the same both in the him and in Bi. and Archbish. And the name of Bish. signifieth not a seuerall office of the Ministery but a superior degree of dignity and authority in the selfesame order of the Ministery that the Priest or pastoral Elder is in as S. Aug. to 4. in his questions ex vtroque mixtim quaest 101. saith Quid est enim Episcopus nisi primus Presbyter hoc est summus sacerdos For what is a Bishoppe but the chiefe Priest or Elder that is to say the highest sacred Minister this he speaketh euen of that place of S. Paul â Tim. 3. where the priest or Elder is called a Bishop so that the bishop yea and the Archbishop are still but Priestes or Elders in respecte of the order and office of the Ministerie Although therfore the name of Bishop being an honorable name howbeit but a name of degree in the office of dignity and auth therby may aswell admit the name of a superiour among themselues as also ouer the residue of the Ministers yet sith the name of Pastor Priest or Pastoral elder continueth still both in the Bishop and in the arch-bishop
in his Epistle to the Hebrewes Guides such as are appointed to ouersee the flocke with authoritie and vnto them submission and obedience is commaunded in the same chapter ver 17. If this name ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã vsed in that Chap. by S. Paule which not only signifieth a guide but a Captaine going before all the residue with gouernment principalitie may enclude a lawfull authoritie coÌmandement of submission and obedience without Imperious and Pompeous dominion our Prelates I hope wil desire no more nor so much neither in al lawfull respects as may in this worde ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã be well conteyned But if here in the word flocke wherof the B. is guide they include not the whole congregation and so with all the inferiour Ministers and Pastors in the same as well as the other people then is not this alleaged to the purpose whether any one Pastor may haue Superior authoritie ouer another and be ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã of the residue and then it is but a flocke here to alleage it But iâ it be vnderstood of the whole particular Church then indéed it is alleaged to the present purpose but it proueth that the Imperious Pompeous dominion excepted one may haue authoritie ouer another Other names are applyed to them in the Scripture but they bee for the most part more generall pertayning to all kinde of teachers in the Church of God both in the time of the lawe of the Gospell as Seers Prophets watchmen Angels Laborers Builders Stewards such like all which with many other serue to expresse some part of their office as their knowledge their diligence their authority their faithfulnes their discretioÌ also the necessitie of theÌ the coÌmoditie that coÌmeth by them Concerning these Titles as not in controuersie I passe them ouer The argument of the 6. Booke THE 6. Booke is of the Pastors or Bishops office For the limiting of him to one only congregation Whether the Pastor may haue Curates or Substitutes vnder him to supply his absence Whether all ministers are to be vtterly expelled be they neuer so Learned or diligent if they haue not the gift of preaching and cannot confute the gaine-sayers Of ministers that are altogether vnskilfull and of their remoouing Whether all be eternally condemned that do not by hearing âf preaching become faithfull Of the lackâ of preaching of the impossibility to furnish euery congregation with preachers Of tââ hindrances hereof the indeuors to helpe it of our Breâârens praeposterous means Of the state of the French Churches âor abundance of Preachers Of pluralities non residencies Of reading a praescribed forme of prayers Psalmes and chapters Of the students discouragement for the ill bestowing of liuings Of the want of lyuings able to maintaine Learned Preachers Of spoiling the ministers maintenance vnder pretence of better prouiding for theÌ of these spoilers mockers of God maÌ Of their maintenaÌce in the freÌch churches without such helps as we haue Of the Prophets seÌteÌces applied to our vnskilful Pastors reading ministers Of the vse of godly learned homilies whether they may be effectual in the hearers Of the Pastors duty What Ministers our Brâimpugne we defend Of our Ministers exercises Of three remedies that our Bretheren set downe to helpe the necessities for lacke of liuinges of restoring the Sacrilege of Abbies of diuiding superfluities of some places and of a 3. namelesse and generall remedie Of the remedies to supply the want of Learned men by eneoragers by ouerseers in the vniuersities by tourning out droanes and vnprofitable heads of colleges by placing newe gouernors by erecting new Doctors in as many places as may be by compulsion and by prayer Of the corruption of our state Of our Brethrens dispensation till all these thinges can be brought to passe Of our Brethrens hope to effect all these thinges and in howe short time and of their incouragement hereunto Of their commending her Maiesties most honorable glorious raigne And of their promise to ieopard their liues for the successe and of their mourning threatning and protestation if all these things according to these their deuised meanes be not speedily ãâã practise BVT concerning the names of Pastors as they are a speciall office in the Church this may suffice But for as much as we haue vndertaken so to describe a Pastor and his office as all other offices of the Churcâ may be described therewith we must not stay onely in the name buâ set forth also the whole substance of the person For which intent it shalâ be necessarie for vs to consider a Pastor or Bishop two wayes in the proper function of his ministerie and in gouernement with his Elders by which we shall vnderstand how this ministerie ought to be reformed and restored among vs. As touching his office something hath beene sayde before generally vnder the description of his seuerall names But now more particulerly we must examine what belongeth to his charge OUr Brethren presupposing they haue in this theiâ Learned Disc. sufficiently prooued that the nameâ of Pastor Bishop must alwaies be taken synonymically as diuerse words signifying but one thing and that there may be no such dignitie accessorie to the office as whereby one Pastor or Bishop may haue authoritie ouer another doe nowe procéeâ to their platforme of prescribing lawes concerning these Pastors and Bishops office and the reformation that they would propose vnto them Whereof I marueile not a little at our Brethrens ouer boldnesse in these things and crauing pardon of my terme least I also be thought ouerbold with them and I would gladly vse a mylder terme for their sakes if the matter could permitte it that they dare take vpon them to sette downe lawes and orders of refourming and restoring these offices of the ministerie imagining they stande nowe deformed yea lost they being as I take them to be for they are namelesse but priuate persons except they alleage that they be ministers but whether authorised or exauthorated yea or no I knowe not If they be exauthorate then are they still as méere priuate being depriued of the publike personage action that they had if they be not then do they contrarie to the state of their owne calling exercising the office of that ministerie which their selues professe to bée deformed and lost And how soeuer the title of their Learned Discourse pretendes in the froont onely a briefe and plaine declaration concerning the desires of all those faithfull Ministers which doe seeke for the Discipline and reformation of the Church of Englande where is pretended nothing but a declaring of the desires that they seeke yet in the seeking they desire it in such a peremptorie fashion that we finde their desires to be a plaine charge and prescription which is both aboue any authoritie that they haue so to doe and were the matters that they woulde haue reformed and restored better than
Which if it were perchance many of these our Learned brethen Discoursers theirselues might fail especially in this last point being not able what soeuer they perswade theÌselues to defend these their owne desires and to confute vs iheir Brethren whome they take in hande to confute not of any vnholesome Doctrine which they confesse that wee professe so well as they and as for those whome they shoulde rather confute indéede as the papistes the Anabaptistes the Arians the libertines the brethren of Loue and such like mainteining not wholesom doctrine it would not onely appose them but many other yea otherwise good preachers to confute them in such order as the Apostle there requireth In the famous Nicene Counsell were assembled many notable learned Bishops and Elders and yet when it came to disputation one simple ancient father who was no preacher neither did more good in confuting a sophisticall and wrangling Phylosopher euen by the plaine recitall of the onely Creede than al the the eloquent and Learned bishops were able to doe For as the Arian philosopher sayd while they striued with words he had wordes ynough for them all But when vertue came words gaue place to vertue If it be sayde this fact was not of a Pastor but of a lay Confessor as Socrates mentioneth Hist. Tripart lib. 2. cap. 3. Which notwithstanding in Sozomenus seemeth another like fact to bee done by a Preest or Elder being also a Confessor to defend the other preests his fellowes whome another philosopher insulted vpon yet euen in the next Chapter Sozomenus mentioneth a Confutation also not much vnlike betweene a pagane phisosopher and Alexander Bishop of Constantinople For when diâtra of the phylosophers desired to dispute before the Emperor with the bishop and he being vnexpert in such exercise of wordes c. Notwithstanding tooke vpon him the conflict by the commandement of the Emperour When all the philosophers would speak he required them to appoint out one whom they would choose and coÌmanded the other to hold their peace and marke what should bee spoken of them twaine Whervpon one of them vndertaking the dealing of the whole disputation the blessed Alexander saith vnto the philosopher in the name of Iesus Christ I command thee that thou speake not and as soone as he had sayd the word the deed was performed For sodainly so soone as he heard the speech his mouth being closed vp hee became speechelesse This bishop was of great vertue of life and had the gift as it appeared of myracles He could not dispute and confute the gainsayer of wholesome doctrine yet could he stop their mouthes pretily wel But if our brethren had bene there if they durst not speake for feare their mouthes had beene stopt likewise yet they woulde after haue sayde of him that being vnable to confute he was altogether vnmeete for the office of a Pastor or a byshop But those that woulde say so of suche a man were meete ynough to haue their mouthes also if not by myracle yet by authority to bee stopped rather than to open them thus at randon against many good playn and simple pastors who though they haue not the gifte of GOD with any audacitye and grace of vtterance in the pulpit make a plausible sermon to the people yet in priuate admonition in sound knowlege in sincere constant profession of the trueth can teach and perswade with their example and confute more effectually by theire life though otherwise in publike action they can doe little without their booke and yet shall some of these perhaps do more good among the people than some other eloquent and famous Preacher or Disputer or Confuter shal be able to doe I graunt these high and moste excellent gifts are to be honored with duble honor but the other are not so far to be despised as to be called altogether vnmeet for the office of a pastor or bishop Howbeit I confesse if any be altogether ignorant of the knowledge of Gods worde the same is also altogether vnmeet for the office of a pastor or bishop Hereupon our brethren set down their resolution saying Wherefore if wee euer minde such a reformation as God shall thereby be glorified his Church edified we must vtterly remoue al the vnlearned pastors as men by no means to be tollerated to haue any charge ouer the Lordes flocke and also prouide that heereafter none bee receiued into that office but such as are sufficient for their knowledge ability in teaching to take so waighty a charge in hand What a great vnthankfulnesse is this to say If euer we minde sucha reformation as God shal thereby be glorified and his church edified As who shoulde say it was neuer yet hetherto in all this Reformation of the Church eyther endeuored or so much as minded And is all this that hath béene done nothing to the glorifying of God nor to the edifying of his Church or hath it so fallen out that both God hath bene glorified therby and his Church edified and yet was neuer minded with charity to our bretheren beit spoken this their censure is too too vncharitable both of her Maiest her Maiest Brothers and Fathers mindes and reformation with all their godly Counsels endeuours and all their learned bishops and preachers trauels to these especiall purposes that God might bee glorified and his Church edified and too iniurious euen to the Glorye that God hath already gotten and the edification that the Churche namely of England hath enioyed and other Chuhches that haue in part felt no small comfort and edification therby Gods name bée more and more glorified and praysed for it But nowe imagining if wee may so harden our heartes and benumbe our senses as not to féele nor acknowledge these good blessings of God that Gods glory and his Churches edification was neuer yet sette foorth among vs nor so much as minded what is the thing they woulde haue vs doe If euer we minde such a reformation as God shal thereby be glorified and his Church edified we must vtterly forsooth remoue all the vnlearned pastors as men by no meanes to bee tollerated to haue any charge ouer the Lords flocke and also prouide that heereafter none be receiued into that office but such as are sufficient for their knowledge and ability in teaching to take so waighty a charge in hand Concerning the prouision for heereafter it is very good counsell But for those that are in office already only for that they caÌnot publikly preach and exhorte and confute though otherwise they haue neuer so muche knowledge there is no remedy but that they must euery one be remooued and that vtterly remoued and that by no meanes to be tollerated no not to haue any charge though it be not the pastorall charge no not to be a Deacon nor a Reader nor yet a Dore-keeper ouer the Lordes flock this is a hard censure Indeede nothing so harde as one of them with more eager zeale
than the moste of the residue wrote of late in his aunswere against M. C. for ioyning with the English Churches saying Wherefore I woulde say there were holinesse in the dumbe Ministerye for that is their vsuall and mildest tearme they afforde the Ministers that are not publike preachers if all the dumbe Ministers were hanged vp in the Churches and publike assemblies for a warning and terror to the reste that are ready to enter such a function then indeede there were a holy signe and remembraunce of iudgement against such wretches but other holinesse haue they none in them This iudgement is farre more rigorous and extream than this of our Learned brethren Discoursers Yea by this bloudy sentence some of our brethren perhaps their-selues that are more Zealous than learned or more Learned then able with any gift of persuasion to make any publike exhortation and confutation might be called into daunger not nowe of their liuings but of theiâ liues and although they would tell a fayre tale to saue their liues and would rather preach such slender stuffe God wotte as they had yet if they were vnlearned they must be counted dumb dogs they must trusse also the cord would not suffer them to vtter it So soone might this Iudgement be reuersed on some of their own wel-willers who spare not to cast foorth such vncharitable and bitter spéeches saying of the poore Ministers of Christ we say not but that that our dumbe Ministers may be heard for if standing on the galowes to bee executed they say woulde come downe I knowe we may heare them Do these spéeches sauour of Christian charity If not rather of the spirite of those cried Crucifige Crucifige and hauing crucified Christ so these speak of hanging vp his poore Ministers And as they in scorne bad him come downe from the crosse so these speaking of hearing his Ministers doe say they may indéede be heard when they say they would come downe from the Gallows Yet well fare these our Brethren the Learned Discoursers that are somewhat more pitifull to the poore vnlearned pastors not to hang them vp by the neck as Theeues and Robbers Traytors and Rebelles for so they commonly call them for a warning and terror but to turn them out to shake their eares and beg their Bread with their wiues and children like wretches Roagues and Vagaboundes Yea they are fayre dealt with that they haue their liues And this is the mylder sorte of these our Brethren And vntill the poore Ministers that bee not Learned preachers be at leaste thus gently handled wee shall neuer minde suche a reformation as God shall thereby bee glorified and his Church edefied Alas poore soules which heretofore euen for their zeal of Gods word thogh not al yet many of them in time of so great necessity when the tyranny of Antichriste had wasted and taken away so many Learned pastors and when the popish massing sacrifices were also remoued then these good Zealous men being of some readier skill and ability than were the most part of the residue in those dayes did forsake their former trades whereby before they honestly liued which if they had continued might yet thereby haue mainteined themselues and with hatred and hazard of their liues the most part being then aduersaies of the trueth in many places haue wholly dedicated them selues to the Ministery of Gods worde and Sacramentes beeing also lawfully both by the best pastors then of the church of England yea many of them assent desire and election of by their brethren Protestants with testification of their good conuersation albeit not so Learned nor trayned in schooles as godly zealous nor able to preach to expounde to exhort to confute learnedly in publike auditory though otherwise sufficient to giue godly counsel admonition and instruction in all priuate though in the open Congregation not daring knowing their owne simplicity to hazard themselues further then the distinct reading of the scriptures with such fruitefull Interpretations and Homelies as by authority are approoued and assigned with the publike forme of common prayer prescribed and the reuerent administration of Christs sacramentes and haue nowe in the continuall exercise of these thinges besides their priuate studies aboue this twenty yea some aboue thirtie yeares spent all their time and nowe in their old age should be vtterly remooued and by no meanes tollerated to haue any charge ouer the Lordes flock nor any other prouision so much as spoken of for their mainnance though not called in question whether they would be hangd or no Me thinketh these thinges if they were a little better considered and digested should it least more moue the bowels of mercie yea the remorse of conscience and thankfulnesse in our learned brethren than to deale so extreamly with them It may be that a number of such withall are crept into the Ministery altogether so ignorant and perhaps so criminous and offensiue who might worthily sustaine so sharpe a iudgement that it were better they were vtterly remooued than by any meanes to bee tollerated to haue any charge of the Lords flock For such I pleade not But no reason that their causes of entering into and continuing in the Ministery being so different they should passe al alike so hard a censure But what reason induceth our brethren héereunto What man hauing but one hundreth sheepe woulde make such a maÌ a shepheard or Ouerseer ouer them as were a naturall Idiote or otherwise altogether vnskilfull or vnable too performe the thinges that belong to a shepheard if no man haue so little care of bruite beasts what brutish negligence is it to commit the people of God redeemed with the precious bloude of Iesus Christe to suche vnskilfull and vnsufficieÌt Pastors as neither themselues knowe the waye of saluation neyther are able to lead other vnto it whereof they are so cleane ignorant themselues If our brethren meant only of such persons as they now speake of it were more than a brutish negligence in very déede to commit the people of god to such vnskilfull and vnsufficient Pastors But before they spoke of such as had neuer so much knowledge and now they come in with naturall Idiotes with altogether vnskilfull vnable and vnsufficient Pastors and such as neither themselues know the way of saluation neither are able to leade other vnto it whereof they are ignoraunt theÌselues Is there no difference betwéene these those that are both wise godly and learned and diligent to leade the people of God bothe by counsell instruction and example though they haue not the gifte of open preaching publike exhorting of the people and effectual confuting of the gainesayer These are those that we woulde haue more fauorablye delt withall As for the other naturall Idiotes and altogether vnskilfull vnable and vnsufficient Pastors we pleade not for any tolleration of theÌ And we hope there be not many suche hope-losts that these words should thus in generall
is a far vnlike and vnséemely spéeche for Protestant Minist to bestow vpon their brethren Minist in the Gospell True it is that by the Non residence of some Pastors and the pluralities graunted vnto them some Curates and Ministers of lesser giftes are maintayned and as I take it reason too For as we haue shewed out of Caluine the giftes of the Pastors being not alike there may well bee difference in them both of superiority of maintenance Which may accord also wel inough with the saying of the Apost The Elders that gouerne well especially in the work of the word are worthy of double honor And therfore if some more Learned pastors hauing also a greater gift of the spirit of gouernment haue moe parcels of the Churche of god to gouerne than other haue and thereupon are permitted in consideration of their greater labours in the word to do good in moe places and for their better prouision to haue other besides them and in their absences to attend continuallye to those congregations while their more fruitefull trauailes are other where emploied if these also by order of lawe and by authoritie of Magistracie bee prouided for and yet cannot bee permitted but by the lawe and magistrate so that it is not free to euerye one that liste but to choice and more able men and onelie to so good purposes and alwaies with sufficieÌt prouisions for euerie place and person so permitted Is it lawfull for euerie or anie priuate subiect on this publike fashion to exclaime against it and also to inueigh against the Magistrates for maintaining of it But there is a mysterie in this thing more than euerie bodie wéeneth Pluralities and non residents are pretended which if they bee abused are not so maintained but that vpon proofe thereof they are punishable or to bée restrained or reuoked but other matters are shot at to wit the liuings of the Bishops of the Colledges or of anie that haue anie portions of the Church impropriated and allotted vnto them Howbeit our Brethren faile herein of their chiefe purpose for if all these were taken away yet may the power and superiour authoritie remaine though weakened when the liuing is gone and so al Pastors notwithstanding al these byouse deuises are not equall As for that our Brethren adde of the pretence of these thinges which they call grose corruptions of Pastorall office to omit the reconciliation of these sayings that as they may haue some honest pretence so they can haue no better pretence than had the exchangers of money the grasiers and poulterers to make a burse or shambles or a poultrie yea a den of theeues of the Temple of God which were indéede no honest pretences at al This is also too rough a censure of our Brethren so flatlie to condemne all the Magistrates and Ministers in the Church of GOD which in manner aforsayd permit these things to haue no better pretence nor conscience than these deadlie enimies of Christ had The Texts alleaged out of Matthew Marke and Iohn stande onelie on a ranke for a bare shew and proue nothing at all that these matters haue no better pretence and conscience than those grose corruptions of those wicked Iewes had And is this now that which our Brethren meant when they sayde euen the last sentence before they would rather praie to GOD to lighten their heartes than by anie long discourse to discouer their palpable darknesse Indéede Breuis oratio penetrat coelum But this short Prayer pearceth beyond all Gods forboad and this short discourse Si breuis grauis it were better be longer and be leuis Howbeit the burthen of it is but a faburthen of a foule mouth and of an heauie irkesome slander vnfit for our learned Brethren to haue vttered And yet not content therwith our brethren procéede and saie But especiallie while the whole office of a Pastor shall be thought to consist in reading onelie a prescript number of Psalmes and Chapters of the Scriptures with other appointed formes of praier and that hee may be allowed as a sufficient Pastor which dooth the things which a childe of ten yeeres olde may doe as well as hee so long shall wee neuer lacke vnlearned pastors ignorant and vngodlie people simonicall and sacrilegious patrones so long the building of Gods Church shall goe but slowlie forwarde Besides other superstitious fantasies mayntained in the peoples heartes which for shortnesse wee omitte to speake of Of what estimation reading hath béene accounted in the auncient and primitiue Church and the office of readers both of the Psalms and Chapters of the Scriptures we haue alreadie declared out of Zanchius citing Bucer at large for the same And how auncient and allowable appointed formes of Praier haue bene in the Church of God among al the holie Fathers are yet euen in those reformed Churches that are most now commended vnto vs of our Breth yea their selues also haue in print set down vnto vs appointed formes of Praier though with what warrant and authoritie they may prescribe and appoint formes of praier to their Prince and to the whole Church of Englande and reiect that which is by lawfull authoritie of the Prince and of all the states of the Realme and Church of Englande alreadie appointed I doe not yet knowe and faine woulde I learne how they are able to iustifie these dooings and how their owne prescribing vnto others their appointed formes of prayer and ministration of the Sacraments they hauing no sufficient authoritie therevnto dooth not much more confute themselues that controll other for prescribing appoynted formes of Prayer vnto them As for that they saie the whole office of a pastor shall bee thought to consist in reading these things I know none that saith or thinketh so or that hee may bee allowed as a sufficient pastor which dooth the things which a child of ten yeeres olde may doe as well as hee Who alloweth such a one for a sufficient Pastor And what are those things which a child of ten yeeres olde may doo as well as hee May a childe of tenne yeeres olde minister the Sacrament of Baptisme and the Lordes supper or pronounce the publike absolution to the people But they meane perhaps that such a childe may reade the appointed formes of prayers Psalmes and Chapters of the Scriptures as well as he Maie hee so in the publike Congregation and haue no lawfull calling therevnto And yet may hee doe it as well as hee that is lawfullie called If they meane onelie in the respect of his reading I easilie graunt it them that anye priuate man woman or childe although younger than tenne yeeres olde if his sight be quicke and his voice cleere he be wel enured to reading may both reade as well farre better than many an old Doctor yea than the most zealous and best learned Pastor in the world when his tongue foltreth or his eies waxe dim or age or
Ouerseers of these Readers in Diuinity to teach purely if they be all equall how shall this be without a superior authority to ouersee them so to do and continually to ouersee that it so continue Doth not this imply a continuing superiority and of what function shall this continuing superior be shall he bée a Doctor or a Pastor Because our brethren so necessarily would haue these offices alwayes distinguished and vsed by distinct and seuerall persons Shall the Pastor ouersee the Teacher and that in teaching which is made the proper function of the Doctor But howe then was the Doctors office before Page 13. made the cheefe and principall office that is in the Church or if the Teacher or Doctor shall ouersee the Pastors Why is not the name of ouerseer which is the English of the name Bishop that our brethren alwayes make all one with pastor as well compeÌtible to the Office of the Teacher or Doctor And againe why doe our Brethren here restaine the office of the Readers in diuinity and of those that should purely teach to the vniuersities Whereas before it was auouched pag. 15. that Doctors and Teachers should bee appointed in euery Congregation yea anon after among these meanes héere deuised they woulde haue Doctors and Teachers erected in as many places as may be But héere they mention onely the Vniuersities But now if this be a meanes as in déed it is a very good meanes to the supply of learned preachers by ouerseeing the readers and schollers in Diuinity in the Vniuersities to doe their duties the one in Teaching purely the other in learning diligently so God be praised the vniuersities are not destitute either of teachers to teache purely either of scholers to be learned diligently either of ouerseers both Bish. Chancellors Vicechancelors heads of houses Deans in houses to ouersee these thinges done accordingly if we could be content and thankfull for it The third meanes is by thrusting out these vnprofitable heades of Colleges and other droane bees which either are vnable or vnwilling to set forward the study of Diuinity in their seuerall houses placing diligent and learned gouernours in their places God saue all here is towards againe another curteous intertainment of Tom Drumme by the heade and shoulders to thrust out not nowe any vnlearned Ministers but the heades of Colleges and other we know not who vnder the title of Drone Bees yet some affirm that a Drone Bee may be a better head of a hiue of Bees at least wise may doe better seruice in the hiue than a Waspe or than some stinging Bees may I pray God this desire of thrusting out of the heades of Colleages spring not from the priuate quarrelles of some angry waspes or of some busy Bees These heades of Colleages are pretended to bée vnprofitable perchaunce in this sense that they are not for their profite But who are these vnprofitable heades of Colleages For else these wordes might séeme not so much to note some as to giue a gléeke to all that are the heads of Colleages to be vnprofitable But for a shew of restraint that they mean not all but some héere is added which are either vnable or vnwilling to set forwarde the study of Diuinity in their seuerall houses And what meane our brethren by this that the heades of all the Colleages and houses shoulde be theirselues professors of diuinity but what if their places and their whol foundation in their seuerall houses doe altogether or for the most part require both in them-selues in the Fellows and Schollers of that house another function and profession eyther of Lawe or Phisicke How shall they then set forward the study of Diuinity in their seuerall houses shal they break their statutes and foundations to set it forwarde or what is meant by this setting forwaâde I hope there is none suffered that sets it backwarde but so forwarde as they may and as the foundations of their seuerall Houses will permit And if any doe otherwise and be founde culpable there are already such prouisions both of the priuate statutes of their seuerall houses and of the publike Lawes of the Vniuersities and of the Diocesse and of the whole Realme that such heades of Colleages as can be lawfully proued to be vnprofitable other Drone Bees are already sufficiently prouided for They may wel be reformed or displaced the state of both the vniuersities of all the Church of England intierly standing as it doth As for the placing of other diligent and learned gouernors and studentes in their places Soft a while the old must first be conuicted and be orderly remoued or euer these new other gouernors that would be be they neuer so diligent or learned can be admitted gouernors in their places Otherwise their diligence might be thought suspicious for all their learning if they haue not learned to tarry till they be lawfully called to be gouernors The fourth meanes is this And by other good meanes reforming vniuersities This is generall and vncertaine as before was our brethrens conclusion of their meanes for the supply of liuings Neyther are the Vniuersities thanks be to God destitute of many good meanes already prouided for the reforming of such thinges as are amisse among them Although our brethren séeme héere to go a great deale further than to Readers and to heads of colleges or to abhor Drone bees in seueral houses For in saying they wold haue by some other good means the Vniuersities reformed What do they else but playnly inferre that the whole state of both the Vniuersities shoulde be newe formed as it were made again according to the regiment of their platformes as though they were altogether corrupted and out of order And thus vnder pretence of the vnlearned Ministers all the Learned men in the Realme yea the nurseries of learning and all the foundations of their seuerall Colleages and Houses with the whole corporations of both the Vniuersities must be altered and come vnder the reformation of this our Brethrens Learned Discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment And yet our Brethr. not thus contented adde a fift byonâ means which would not onely vndermine the Vniuersities but vnder a shew of encreasing the number of Learned men would both discourage the best learned in the land hazard all the land to be pestered with a far greater number of vnlearned pastors thaÌ ther are For what mean our brethr by this mean By erecting of Doctors and teachers in as many places as maye bee Would they haue moe Vniuersities erected in as many places as may be or woulde they haue Doctors erected without the erection of the Vniuersities and that as they sayde before Pag. 15. Doctors and Teachers shoulde be appointed in euery Congregation woulde they nowe haue that euery Congregations should haue authority to erect Doctors and Teachers Bee thinkes it is another matter to erect one to be a Doctor or Teacher and
for that action for a time to be staied and yet that Minister so farre-foorth on some good consideration being forbidden to preach may notwithstanding be not forbidden to continue the other partes of his function both to set foorth the publike form of prayer and to reade the Lessons appointed out of the Scripture and to administer the Sacramentes to the people And this is as true a saying as it is olde Vim sacramenti non tollit vita ministri God forbid that the sacrament which such a Minister doth administer shoulde so depend vpon him or his life or preaching that when he vpon infirmity or default or prohibition or any other occasion ceaseth to preache then the sacrament that he administreth shoulde be thought not to be effectuall Which to affirme is a perillous error and inferreth many dangers and absurdities But nowe besides this quarrel of not being preachers our Brethren draw this matter of the sacramentes to other points and say And that which is more straunge to be suffered in this clear light of the Gospell to permit the ministration of baptizme not onely to ignoraunt men but also to Women which haue no voyce to speake in the Congregation 1. Cor. 14.34 and 1. Tim. 2.11 and that in priuate places but in case they say of necessity as though there were such necessitye of the outwarde signe when it can-not bee ministred according to the institution of Christe which is nothing else but to affirme with the papistes that sacramentes conferre grace of the work wrought and that the sacrament of Baptisme is a sacrament of such necessity that whosoeuer is not dipped in Water must bee eternally condemned Which hereticall opinion as we haue hissed out of our profession and preaching so is it a great shame for vs to maintain by such corrupt vsage of Christs holy sacramentes Concerning the permitting the administration of Baptisme in this light of the Gospell to Women Bee it spoken with the reuerence of our Brethren it is moste vntrue When as it is not onely giuen customably in the open charge of euery visitation whether any such thing be done by them as in the time of the popish darknesse was vsed but also if anye such thing haue hapned and be found out the parties that so haue done are openly punished for the same And how then is not this more strange that our Breth dare say it is suffered permitted vnto women concerning Womens hauing no voyce to speake in the Congregation I hope our Brethren will not stretch it further than saint Paule ment it nor vrge it as Sanders and the papists do which were not onely against the scripture but against the state As for baptising in priuate places though ordinarily the open church and place appointed in the church as is the publike font be the most fit place for such publike actions yet where a sufficieÌt coÌgregation is present and vpon some extraordinary occasion if the sacraments be orderly administred according to the godly forme by the Church prescribed shall wee say this is not a true sacrament or not to be permitted or corruptly administred receiued if a ChristiaÌ be sick and by reason of his infirmity may not or dare not goe abroad may he not be permitted to receiue by the ministration of the minister the holy Communion in his house with some of his family or neighbors participants with him and if this may be done in the Lordes supper may it not be done as well in baptism concerning the substance of the same and also for all pointes of decency thereto belonging hauing a sufficient Congregation present so that the Church be sufficiently certified of the orderly doing thereof What place shall we call that where the Eunuche was baptized by Philip For although it was by the common high way yet in respect of the publike places ordinarily accustomed for such solemne and sacred actions it was but a priuate place And in what place did Saint Peter command Cornelius to be baptized with all the residue on whome the holy ghoste did come is it not most likelie that it was done in his priuate house and likewise Saint Pauls baptizing the keeper of the prison and his family Act. 16. It seemeth it was done either in his house or in the Prison If our Brethren say that there was some necessity or occasion so to doe whereas nowe there is no suche necessity nor occasion wee hauing this cleare light of the Gospell and a publique place appointed for publike actions We praise God for it and acknowledge it withall thankefulnesse that we haue now this clear light of the gospell And hauing this our brethren haue no such cause to grudge and complayne for these other matters as they doe But had not S. Peter and S. Paul the cleare light of the gospell too when thy baptized in priuate places but whatsoeuer particular necessity of circumstance and occasion draue them in that cleare light of the Gospell so to baptise those parties they knew that the difference of the place publike or priuate infringed not the vertue of the action For the action is still of one and the same vertue though vpon an extraordinary occasion it be done for place for time and diuerse other manners of circumstances extraordinarily In which pointes there may be also some ordinary differences of one Church from another without preiudicating one another or any preiudice to the sacraments or to the receiuers of them As for vs who haue a comely and very good ordinary forme prescribed vnto the Church of England we allow not that the sacraments ordinarily and without necessity or conueniency of some important extraordinary occasion should be administred but in the ordinary and publike place and time and maner by the book appointed and by the laws of our Church prescribed and indéede should not otherwise be permitted And much lesse that the breach hereof shold openly besides the priuate practises in priuate houses both in the pulpit and in bookes printed be maintained and defended which is more strange than in this cleare light of the gospell an extraordinary circumstance or occasion to be suffered or permitted to bee done And which is yet more strange that they which do all these things contrary to all Law order would for very shame open their mouths say that baptisme is permitted to be administred in priuate places their-selues both in priuate places and in straunge manners many times administring both these sacraments But our brethen presuppose that in our suffering of baptisme to be nowe and then extraordinarily administred though by a lawfull Minister and by the order appointed yet beeing doone in a priuate place that we permit it onely for the necessity of baptisme Wherein although they threape more kindnes on vs than néede when other occasions may be and are alleaged by vs then onely the necessity of baptisme For although in the book the
wherein they ioyn with him for their assent comes not iointlie with his prayer but in the ende when all is done then they ioine with him not in praying but in liking or consenting to his prayer and so it is not their praier nor properly publike prayer Besides also the daunger euen in this assenting and saying may times Amen they can scarce on a sudden tell to what And perhaps nowe and then God wot to friuolous petitions If not in some places vnder holy tearms glorious speeches strange phrases and long circumstances when any pastor were not in all points sound as now and then it hapneth they might so colour perillous opinions that the people not perceiuing it but thinking all is well might saye Amen to that whiche if they knewe they would openly protest that they detest it And therefore to auoid al those inconueniences they haue a publike form of publike prayers by those that are sound and godly persons drawn forth and collected perused approued and ratified by the supreme authority of the Prince and of all the states of the realme and Church of England prescribed to all the ministers to vse for the publike order of the diuine seruice Which prayers are so playne so short so pithy so sound and effectuall that the people not onelye most easily may vnderstand them but in continuance be so well acquainted with them that they may assure themselues they be good prayers and such as if they shall heartily powre foorth to God they may safely reckon that they are acceptable to him as tending to his glory and to their benefite And so indéed he may go before them and with them too in such safe and orderly sort that when the pastor pronounceth these known allowed and ordinary publike prayers in the name of the rest and of the whole Church the rest and the whole Church may safely both in silence pray with him and openly also besides their answering Amen in the end vnto his prayers But this is the second thing that here they wold haue forbidden to wit that the people shold not ioin with the pastor in the saying or pronouncing of any publique prayer but onely to pray with him in silence in the ende to aunswere Amen For say they as it were a greate confusion vncomelines for euery man to make his seueral praiers in the publike assemblies so is it orderly for one to pronounce the prayer in the name of the rest the rest to pray with him in silence and to answere Amen That this is wel done we do not deny no more theÌ we do that a learned pastor may now and then also make and conceiue some publike praiers But without preiudice or derogation to the ordinary vsage of them that are all ready made to his handes and conceaued by others and prescribed by order vnto him but that he only shold so say them all alone this is too precise a prescription and too vnnecâssary a feare of confusion disorder For as it is appointed with vs they may say many things altogether with or after the Pastor orderly well inough without any confusion or disturbance And where âo our brethren finde any perpetuall rule prohibiting the poople to ioyne their voices altogether so that disorder and confusion be auoyded We fynde indéede the like order that our brethren héere prescribe vnto vs appoânted to the Leuites Deut. 27.14 c. The Leuites âhal stand and say vnto all the men of Israel with a loud voice Cursed be the maÌ that shal make any carued or molten Image c. so proceedeth with 12. solemn curses and at the end of euery curse is added this precept And all the People shall say AMEN But was this rule so precise that the congregation might neuer speake more or other words altogether at once for feare of confusion and disorder Did not the people speake orderly inough Exod. 19.7 When Moses called for the Elders of them and proposed vnto them all these thinges whiche the Lord commaunded him And the people aunswered altogether and said all that the Lord hath commaunded we will doe And in the nexte Chapter ver 18. c. And all the people sawe the thunders and the lightninges and the sounde of the trompet and the mountaines smoaking And when the people saw it they fled and stoode a farre of and said vnto Mosâs Talke thou with vs and we will heare but let not God talke with vs leaste wee die Which words Moses in Deuteronomy repeateth more fully saying Deut. 5.23 c. When ye heard the voice out of the middest of the darknesse for the mountaine did burne with fire theÌ yee came to mee all the cheefe of your tribes and your elders and yee sayde beholde the Lorde our God hath shewed vs his glory and his greatnesse and wee haue heard his voyce out of the middest of the fire we haue seene this day that God doth talke with man and hee liueth Nowe therfore why shoulde wee dye For this great fyre will consume vs if wee heare the voyce of our Lord God any more we shall die For what flesh was there euer that heard the voice of the liuing God speaking out of the middest of the fire as we haue liued Goe thou neere and heere all that the Lorde God saith and declare thou vnto vs all that the Lorde God saith vnto thee and wee will heare it and doe it Héere was a large speeche of all these Elders of the people And coulde they speake all this without disorder or confusion What sayde he to this Then the Lorde sayth Moses hearde the voice of your wordes when yee spake vnto mee and the Lorde saide vnto me I haue hearde the voice of the words of this people which they haue spoken vnto thee They haue well sayde all that they haue spoken Hee did not vpbraide them with confusion Likewise when Iosuah gaue his charge vnto all those Israelites that possessed the other side of Iordan Iosh. 1.16 17 and 18. They aunswered Iosuah saying All that thou haste commaunded vs wee will doe and whether soeuer thou sendest vs wee wil goe As we obeied Moses in all things so shall we obey thee onely thy Lorde thy God be with thee as he was with Moses whosoeuer shal rebel against thy commaundement and will not obey thy wordes in al that thou commaundest him let him bee put to death Onely bee strong and of good courage Was heere any disorder and confusion in these the peoples speeches When Iosuah before his death had made his exhortation and giuen his charge vnto all the tribes of Israell assembled before him Iosuah 24. verse 16. c. The people aunswered and sayde God forbid that wee shoulde forsake the Lorde to serue other Gods for the Lorde our God he brought vs and our Fathers out of the lande of Aegypt from the house of bondage and hee did those greate miracles in our sight and preserued
alwayes but because of the people that stande by I said it that they may beleeue that thou hast sent me Moreouer when he rode vnto the Temple with a great assemblie of people about him that certaine Grecians desired to see him anon after Iohn 12. ver 27. he prayed sayth Now is my soule troubled and what shall I say Father saue me from this houre but therefore came I vnto this houre Father glorifie thy name Yea the whole 17. Chapter following what is it else but that seuerall and most singuler prayer that Christe maketh vnto his father in the assemblie of his Disciples partely for himselfe though most especially for them and all his elected Last of all his seuerall prayer euen on the crosse not only praying for his enemies Father forgiue theÌ they knowe not what they doe Luke 23.34 but also when he cried with a loud voyce saying Eli Eli Lama sabachthani that is my God my God why had thou forsaken me Mat. 27.46 and Luke 23.46 when also he cryed with a loud voice and sayde Father into thy handes I commende my spirit And as Stephen did consummate his Martyrdom imitating his Master Christ with the like seuerall prayer so the Apostles frequented the Temple the synagogues and other places where the people were assembled to make these their seuerall publike prayers and to heare the law read taking often occasion thereby to preach the gospell vnto them And by S. Paules often protestations of making his prayers Rom. 1. ver 9. God is my witnesse whom I serue in spirite in the Gospell of his sonne that without ceasing I make mention of you alwayes in my prayers c. and to the Phil. cap. 1.3 I thanke my God hauing you in perfecte memorye alwayes in my prayers for all you praying with gladnesse and to the Colloss cap. 1. ver 3. We giue thankes to God euen the father of our L. Iesus Christ alwayes praying for you and to the Thess. 1. Epist. cap. 1. ver 2. We giue God thankes alwayes for you making mention âf you in our prayers without ceasing c. Now S. Paul frequenting wheresoeuer he came the publike assemblies of the faithfull it argueth that eyther in all places he made some solemne mention of all these seuerall Churches which hath no likelihoode or else that in those publike assemblies of publike prayers he made some secrete and seuerall prayers in his mind or memorie for them Eusebius out of Clements sermons recordeth of Iames the brother of the Lorde that he gaue himselfe to such continuall prayer in the Temple that his knees with kneeling grew to be as harde as Camels knees Eccl. Hist. Lib. 2. cap. 23. which were it true it plainely argueth that for all the often and publike assemblies there made he ceased not as before we hearde of the holy widdowe Anna to continue often his seuerall prayers in the publike assemblies All which premisses well considered wee can not iustlie call it confusion and vncomelinesse if seuerall prayers bee nowe and then made of some though not of euerie man in the time and place of the publike assemblies If our Brethren hadde sayde that they may not bee made at or during the time of vttering the publique prayers by all those that may well heare them this saying had béene allowable And yet to make no short and earnest secrete and seuerall prayers petitions or wishes of the heart or thankes giuing to God at all while pawses fall out betwéene the making open confessions the powring foorth publike prayers the reading of the Psalmes the hearing of the Lessons the rendring of thankes and prayses the marking of the sermons and the celebrating of the sacramentes that betwéene these distincte actions the people may make no seuerall prayers nor any priuate motions of their heartes secretely to God all onely because of the publike assemblie then present were to binde the peoples conscience too too strictly without any prohibition of the Lorde yea rather hauing all these examples as a warrant in such cases to the contrarie where neither the publike prayers nor the publike hearing of the worde nor the publike assemblies nor any mans seuerall or publike edification is disturbed any wayes or hindred These thrée points being thus farre forth and not otherwise to be graunted vnto our Brethren let vs now procéede to the other matters that they finde fault withall Wherin say they there is great abuse in our Churches For as though it were not inough to keepe out preaching by long prescribed formes of prayers these prayers are so pronounced by the Minister that a great number and some not of the worst disposed people thinke it pertayneth not to them to giue eare or consent of minde vnto them Wee speake not heere of such insensible readers whose voyce eyther can not be heard or else can not be vnderstoode whereof there be great numbers nor of the vnfitte place prescribed for the Ministers standing at prayers in the east ende of the house when the simple people shall stand often times 40. or 50. yeardes off in the west ende or of the confusion of voyces whilest all speake at once besides screenes of Roode loftes Organ loftes Idoll cages otherwise called Chauntrie chappelles and high pewes betweene them Which although they doe manifestly hinder edification yet may they not be remoued in many places for defacing the beautie of the materiall houses whereas S. Paule so much esteemeth the building of Gods spirituall house that he commaundeth the glorious gifts of the holy Ghost to cease in the congregation when they doe not help to edification But we speake of this that a great multitude thinke they haue well serued God if they haue beene present at coÌmon prayers or any part of them as they were woont to thinke in Poperie although they be neuer so vainely occupied in the Church some in walking some in talking in gathering of money not onely for the poore but for other contributions c. And they that thinke they do best are occupied in their priuate prayers or in reading of bookes while their minister pronounceth publike prayers Our Brethren doe here sharpely chalenge the Churche of Englande for many great abuses by reason of our diuine seruice and publ prayers Howbeit thankes be to God first and in generall for all these great abuses here reckoned vp we may safely affirme that there is no not one of them which can iustly and directly be ascribed to the order in the communion booke for the forme of publik prayer prescribed but may wel inough be helped and redressed both the Eccl. state of gouernement and the appointed order of the diuine seruice remaining still in force anie thing here founde fault with to the contrarie notwithstanding They pretende first that we keepe out preaching by long prescribed formes of prayer For the auowing of prescribing formes of prayer
till our Brethren haue somewhat more to alleage to debarre it than hetherto they haue brought foorth or till they can infringe those proues that we sée it sufficiently warranted by yea til they can shew with what good reason and authoritie their selues being without authoritie can set out a booke prescribing formes of coÌmon prayer yet the whol estate of the church of England can not so do I trust that may suffice for that point which we haue alreadie spoken thereon And as for long prescribed formes of praier they haue as long prescribed formes as our booke prescribeth in any part of the coÌmon prayer to be vsed yea by many oddes far longer Haue we any of al our publ prayers prescribed in our communion booke that is but a quarter so long as some of the prayers are that they haue prescribed in their book of coÌmon prayer being some of them aboue 200. lines a péece And howe can our Breth then for very shame find fault with our long prescribed forme of prayer Neither is this true that preaching is kept out by long prescribed formes of prayer All the formes of prayer that are prescribed in any part of our ordinarie diuine seruice may be soberly and with decent pawses vttered foorth either for the ministers or for the peoples part in the space of little more than one houre yea the lessons and all the rest of the diuine seruice within one houre a halfe eueÌ where the seruice is longest in saying though also much and solemne âinging doe protract it And yet are prouisions of purpose made for contracting some partes therof at the ministers discretion for the longer continuance of the sermons or of the reading of the Homilies so that this is but a picked quarell and yet not true They coÌplaine further that these prayers are so pronounced by the minister that a great nuÌber some not the worst disposed people thinke it pertaineth not to theÌ to giue eare or consent of mind vnto theÌ What kind of pronouncing this so pronouÌced shuld be our Breth pronounce it not And therfore till the abuse be playner pronounced of our Breth we can neither denownce what fault it is nor finde in whom it lies whether in the pronouncer or in the hearer nor howe to helpe it that wee might renounce it till we knowe better what they meane If they mean that the mânister so pronounceth the prayers that they can not bee vnderstoode âhey make that to be another fault seuered and excepted from this saying afterwarde wee speake not heere of such insensible readers whose voyce eyther cannot be heard or else can non be vnderstoode But then the fault is in the pronouncer of the prayers not in the prayers so pronounced And if the minister do not his diligence so to pronounce them as he ought to do yet must they do their diligence so to marke them as well as they may For howsoeuer he pronounce them yet cannot they rightly thinke that the prayers pertaine not to them Which if they do though our Brethren say they be some not of the worst disposed in which words whoÌ they aime at is as darkly pronounced as the other I am sure they be not of the best disposed and indéede too badde disposed that so thinke And not onely the ministers that so pronounce but also those not of the worst disposed that so think the one for his pronouncing if hee pronounce not well that which is good and the other for his lewde opinion in thinking those good prayers pertaine not to him are both faultie and punishable And I pray God none of our Brethren their selues being I graunt not of the worste disposed thinke it pertayneth not to them to giue eare or consent vnto them For what can wee thinke that they thinke better of them that thus write against them and would haue theÌ cleane taken away Though here for fashion sake they finde such fault that they are not so pronounced as they should be which is indéede to allowe them if they were well pronounced Wheras their drift is quite contrarie that they should neither so nor so be pronounced at all Their next complaint is this We will not here speake of such insensible readers whose voyce eyther can not be heard or else cannot be vnderstood whereof there be great numbers Of this they say they will not here speake And why will they not here speake of it I hope it be not because they like it Or do they reserue it to another place Or do they count it so trifling a thing that it is not worth the speaking of Or doe they count it a fault and would conceale it or not haue it looked vnto and punished Or do they speake it Rhetorically they will not speake of it but they doe And good reason too that they or any other wheresoeuer such vnsensible readers are both lawefully may dutifully should both speake and complaine of them If they will speake and complaine as they ought to do not by the way of publike defamation for that eueÌ where the matter is true is sclanderous but by orderly presentment and humble petition vnto those that haue authoritie to ouersee that no such insensible readers be permitted Neither doth any lawe now in force allowe of them And therefore I doe the hardlier beléeue that which is here auouched there be great numbers of theÌ But if any such here and there be especially if it be by sicknesse or any such accidentall infirmitie growing on them as froÌ which euen the best of our Brethr. are not frée yea be it that such an ignorant Pastor were in some odde corner crept in as could not sensibly read the publike prayers yet what letteth this why there might not be prouision made vppon orderly complaint and proofe before the ordinarie to place other sensible readers that both can be heard and vnderstoode and the people deuoutly moued to ioyne in prayers with them Nor yet say our Brethren they will speake of the vnfitte place prescribed for the ministers standing at prayer in the East end of the house while the simple people shall stande often times 40. or 50. yeardes off in the west ende This complaint for the standing of the Minister in the most fitte and conuenient place of the Church néede the lesse indéede to be spoken of by our Brethren since other hauing authoritie thereunto haue before them both spoken considered thereupon And where vpon view it hath béene founde that the Minister stoode not in a fitte place another fitter place hath by authoritie beene appointed for him As it is apparant in most places sâue where the Ministers voice may be heard and vnderstood easily inough oâ those that list to listen thereunto except any be thicker of hearing and those may drawe néerer if they please or by the licence of the parish so farre as the decencie of their calling doth permitte And it were fitter of the
but to praye that all ordinarye formes of prayer shoulde bee altogether expelled that preaching may occupy all the time and place thereof Wee will not neither dare wee praye that ours or any other ordinary formes of praier shoulde in all places be in steede of preaching but that preaching shoulde rather be more often than it is and that in all places if it would please God that all places mighte be so furnished If not yet in as many places as may be But to wish all ordinarye formes of prayer to be in all places or in any place wholly displaced to place preaching God forbid it should so be or we should so with it Surely in my opinion and vnder correction this is eyther a very greate ouershot in our brethren or else it sauoureth of some woorse purpose than I would gladly surmise our brethren went about Although they not onely héerein go about to ouerthrowe all the ordinary formes of prayer that are already with vs established by all the estats and highest authority of the Church of Englande or any other that wée can make if there be any defect herein but also their own ordinary forms both that in Scotlande and that of Geneua and that of Middleborough and that which now last of all they haue renewed in London and to the which their selues haue prefixed this title A booke of the forme of coÌmon prayers administration of the sacraments c. agreable to Gods word and to the vse of the reformed Churches All this booke and these their owne ordinary formes of prayers are héere prayed for by these our brethren the Learned Discoursers to be as wel as ours extinguished Yea they make no exception of the Lords owne Prayer which also is a prescribed ordinary forme of prayer But against this prayer of theirs which we pray and hope God will neither graunt nor heare we haue already at large sufficiently séene good euidence and warrant for ordinary formes of prayer in Gods Church The second thing that we haue to obserue is this that althoughe wee make it the dutie of the Pastor to pray in the name of the whole congregation yet do we not so meane but that the whole congregation with one heart and with one voice may praise God with singing of Psalmes all at once For this custome hath continued in the Church from the beginning that the congregation haue praysed God with Psalmes singing altogether If the whole coÌgregation with one hart with one voice may praise God with singing of Psalms al at once or altogether then may the whole congregation with one heart with one voice al at once or altogether make their prayers to God For wheron do the Psalmes consist but euen of those parts that S. Paule 1. Tim. 2. v. 1. speaketh of to witt DeprecatioÌs petitions intercessions thankesgiuinings All which if they may of all the whole congregation al at once or altogether be sung why maye they not as well of them be saide as sung if they be said distinctly and without confusion Singing I grant doth wel where it may be had where they haue tunable voices and sufficient skill to keepe their notes in tune and order But is singing more fit for prayer than is saying I am glad to heare our Brethren to fauour singing of prayers But can they not do but they must ouer-do all the whole Congregation can not sing so wel all at once or altogether or perhaps manye of them not at all except they shoulde sing a blacke sanctus But they may all at once a great deale more easily say those prayers or some psalmes that they cannot sing not onely if they can reade but if they can follow the Minister that saith the same before them And yet they be not put either to the singing or saying of all or of halfe a quarter but of some fewe and short and easy and those that they are acquainted well withall which if they can sing it is well and a good hearing But looke what they can sing that I thinke they can as easily say and as orderly too if they be so disposed But how do our brethren proue they should thus sing altogether For say they this custome hath continued in the Church from the beginning Yea and is this then a good plea with our brethren of such a custome as hath continued from the beginning Then I thinke they will bethinke them-selues a little better for the continuing superiority of one priest or Elder aboue his fellowe priests or Elders Which also hath continued in the Church from the beginning as we haue at large before declared And haue we not séene this custome also that the whole CongregatioÌ as wel saying as singing and that oftner saying than singing made altogether at once as with one heart so with one voice their prayers and thankesgiuings vnto God Of which continuance we haue séene the custome both in the olde testament and in the newe euen from the begining As for that our Bre make it the duty of the pastor to pray in the name of the whole congregation we deny it not that this is his duety but this debarreth not but that the whole Congregation also may now and then ioyne with the pastor with one heart and with one voyce and so well as sing so likewise may they pray altogether at once if not in their owne names but in the name of Iesus Christ yet in their owne voices and for their own selues as wel as the minister also to pray for them and in their names Which debarre of the whole congregation so to do more than debarring them of singing is too nice and precise a Scruple in our brethren without warrant either of commandement or of custome continued in the Church from the beginning for the same And these three partes of a pastors duety to preache to Minister the sacraments and to pray are so necessarily required of him in the worde of God as no man may rightly execute the office of a pastor but he that performeth all these eche one in their due time And to this part of praier may be referred the blessing of Mariages not of necessity but of ancient vse of the Church To all these three partes of a Pastors duty we assent in this manner For the first that it is his duty to preach either distinguishing of the maÌner of the preaching or the necessity of the duety as we haue before declared And likewise for the other two wee graunt them as necessary as our brethren doe require them and as partes of his duety Howbeit as our Brethren here at length do confesse not alwayes either these two and much lesse all these three to bee necessarily executed and performed all at once but each one in their due time So that although preaching in the sense as our Brethren vnderstand distinct from teaching want vpon any necessary or conuenient
the publique Prayers also the forme and manner of things with what authority then do our brethren take vpon them to traÌspose in the Church of England that which the Church of England hath disposed with what authority can they abrogate or alter the dayes and times of preaching administring the sacraments that the Church of Engl. in like maner by her authority hath disposed with what authority can they dispose assemblies commââgs together of the people to bee made in other places than to that purpose are disposed with what authority can they controul or disobey the form manner of the publike praiers vsing those thingâ in the ordinary seruice that the church of Eng. hath disposed to be vsed yet they wil not only refuse to vse thosethings the form manner of publike prayers nor only deface reuile them as naught but set forth oppose against that which by the churches autority is disposed another forme maner of publike prayers of their own disposing Yea if wee were disposed to examine better their owne positions how standeth this with their prayer on the other side of the leafe pag. 69. saying God graunt therfore that in steed of ordinary formes of praier we may haue preaching in all places If the church haue authority to dispose for publike prayer the form manner so that al things be done comely agreeable to order but especially that in all thinges principal regard be had to edification then not only a forme of publike praiers hindreth no whit but furthereth comlines order edificatioÌ but also the church vsing her authority in disposing of an ordinary form of publike praiers so well as in disposing the daies times places for preaching it cannot be that preaching in all places shoulde bee had in steed of publike praiers but that both of them should stil continue in their dayes and times places forme and manner by the Churches authority disposed And what followeth hereupon but that either our brethren must denie the Church of England to be the Church and so not to haue authority of their disposing of these things or els granting it to be the Church that is to say a particuler Church for I think they wil not say that they mean this only of the vniuersal church nor yet of euerie seueral congregation for so our Bre. assertion were not true but speaking heere indefinitely that the church hath authority to dispose these thinges they mean euery whole state of any true particular Church in Christendome As the Church of England in Engl. the Scottish Church in Scotl. the Heluetian the Geneuian the French and the Dutch Church in their owne states Which being confessed our Brethren beeing neither the Church vniuersall nor the whole state of the particular Church of England but priuate members in the Church of England and though some numbers of them heere and there collected may make some seuerall congregations yet are they not of sufficient authority no not so to collect themselues or haue any autority of making any assemblings or commings together at all in any place being but priuate persons without the disposing of them that haue autoritie in the Church or of the whole estate of the church of England therunto then must they néedes confesse withall that they doe greatly offende in going about to gaine-say and ouerthrowe this authority of the whole Church of England which hath by her authority so much as in her lies disposed ordeined and established these thinges as touching the circumstaunces for order and comelinesse sake but cheefely for edification as the dayes and times of preaching and administring the sacramentes the places meete for the same and for publike prayers also for the form and manner of vsing those things that all thinges be done comely and agreeable to order but especially that in all things principal regard bee had to aedification Nowe when the Church of Englande hath by her authority and by the authority of the supreme gouernor of her vnder Christe and of all the gouernors ecclesiasticall or politicall of her whole estate thus disposed these thinges Is it lawfull for any priuate persons bee they learned or vnleârned be they few or many in the same Church to resist this autority whether this be to resist euen God or no and whether that which Saint Paule wrot to the Romaines Chapter 13. charging them beeing Christians to obey their Ciuill Magistrates though euil and Heathen in ciuill and indifferent matters do not much more binde euery particular priuate Christian all Christian subiects to obey their Christian Magistrates and all good Christian both Ecclâsiastical and politike gouernors the whol particular estate autority of their own church wherof they are but priuate members I refer it to euery indifferent readers iudgement to our Bre. own answere on better aduisement of these thinges If our Bre. deny that they haue euer done or yet doe resist the Church of Englands authoritie in disposing these things what was all this that was last spoken of against the ordinary form of publike praier diuine seruice besides the authority it selfe of the ecclesiasticall gouernors and many other things of circumstances for dayes times places and administrations of Sacraments that they so vehemently impugne If they say that herein yet they doe not resist nor speake against the Church of Engl. for her authority to dispose these things but resist and speak against her onely for this that the she hath abused her authority and that she hath encroched further than shee hath lawfull authority to warrant her doing for that her authority as touching these circumstaunces is but for order and comelinesse sake and cheefely for edification and that it is to bée restrained with this limittation So that all thinges bee done comely and agreeable to order but especially that in all thinges principall regarde bee had to edification which S. Paule so often and so precisely vrgeth in the 14. Chapter of the Cor. Neither do we desire to haue the Churches authoritie in these circumstances to bee enlarged one inche further And euen so God bee praysed hath the Church of Englande had and especiall consideration of al these 3. points of comlinesse of order and of edification If they thinke not so acknowledging her to bee a true Church except they can proue it better than hitherto they haue done and yet should they prooue the same also if they coulde with more modesty and humility than they attempt to doe they both offer too great an iniury to their true and louing Mother the Church of England whose Children if any children of the Church they be and bewray too great a partiality to their owne opion And more séemely of the twain it might be thought to all good men that as they confesse their Mother hath authoritie giuen vnto her by their Faâher of disposing these circumstances to these ends and
purposes that withall they should rather render her this honor being known otherwise to be a true reuerent and chast mysticall wife vnto her spowse husband and to bee a naturall and tender mother to her children hauing ââurished theÌ with the pure milk of Gods word and brought them vp to that knowledge of God which they now haue to think that she hath vsed her authoritie well in disposing these circumstances to these ends accordingly and submit themselues to her disposing of them than to accuse her to theire father or make an outcry of her to the world that she hath abused her authority in these thinges and that these circumstances are not disposed to these 3. ends neither by her nor by any for her that either their father or she hath committed her authority of disposing them vnto except they be a new disposed transposed in such order as they the priuate children shal conceiue to bee more agreeable to these endes What an vnnaturall part were this yea how is it not as great fault on the contrarie as the aduersaries that extolled and honored their mother too much giuing her equal authority with God whom they pretended to be their father not onely in circumstances but in pointes of religion and making her to alter Gods commandements thus aduanced they their mother which was and is notoriously conuicted of most manifest spiritual fornication And wee nowe that professe our selues to be children of her whom we al acknowledge to be the true wife and chast matron of the L. Shal we thus on the other side dishonor her that when we cannot deny her authority in these circumstaÌces we shal say she vseth theÌ not to the end for which they are giueÌ her As for that which Paul so often and so precisely vrgeth 1. Cor. 14. In all these verses so precisely quoted 23 24 25 26 31. What is there anie thing in anie one of all these Verses to the purpose that heere our Brethren speake of saue that onelie in the end of the 6. vers Paul saith Let al things be done to edifying which precept I know not nor it is yet prooued that this our mother the Church of Englande in disposing any of these forenamed circumstances doth transgresse and abuse this her authorie As for the other place here also cited 1. Cor. 11.17 is nothing likewise to the present purpose Now in this saith S. Paule that I declare I prayse you not that ye come together not with profite but with hurte Except that it maketh more against our Brethren them selues than it doth anie whitte against the Church of Englande for any circumstance of these things that by her authority she hath misdisposed True it is the church of Corinth beganne to abuse and dispose amisse diuerse thinges which S. Paule disswading them from teacheth them in what comely sort the men and women among them should pray or prophecie Which when he had declared preuenting such contentious persons as would vnnecessarilie disturbe quiet comely and indifferent orders he sayth ver 16. immediatly before that which our Brethren alleage but if any man be contentious we haue no such custome neither the Churches of God Upon which generall admonition Caluine sayth He is contentious that is stirred vp with a lust of mouing strifes neither regardeth hee that place should be giuen to the truthe Such are all they that vpon no necessitie would ouerthrowe pull vp or destroy all good and profitable rites or customes which moue coÌtrouersies of matters not doubtfull which holde not themselues contented with reasons which suffer not themselues to be restrayned into order such are also ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã those that are vnciuile or not able to be kept companie withall who with a foolish affection are carried into a forme that men are not accustomed vnto Paule vouchsafeth to giue those men an aunswere because contention is a pernitious thing and therefore it ought to bee driuen awaie from the Churches Wherein he teacheth that such frowarde persons and desirous of brawling should rather bee kept vnder with authoritie than with long disputations to be refelled For there will neuer be an end of contentions if by striuing thou wouldest ouercome a quarellous man For he will neuer be tyred although he be ouercome an hundred times Let vs diligently therefore note this place least wee should suffer our selues to be caried away with superfluous disputations notwithstanding so that we shall knowe howe to discerne contentious persons For we must not alwayes holde him contentious that yeeldeth not to our decrees or that dare gain-say vs but where a lust and an obstinacie appeareth then let vs say with Paule contentions ought to be farre off from the custome Ecclesiasticall Thus sayth Caluine whether it touch our Brethren or vs néerer let other iudge Paule nowe vpon the occasion of these contentious men sayth in the next verse which by our Brethren here is quoted Nowe in this that I declare I prayse ye not that ye come together not with profice but with hurt Fâr first when ye come together into the Churche I heare that there are dissensions among you and I beleeue it in some parte These dissensions raysed among them by dissentious persons that vnnecessarily disturbed the peace of God and quiet of the Church hindred indéede their aedification in their Ecclesiasticall assemblies And it hath not a little hindred the aedification of the Churche among vs. For what is aedifying but the building vp of the mysticall bodie of Christe that is his Churche And if all assemblies and comminges together ought therefore to serue that wee may be better that we may be taught that wee may be aedified doe not our assemblies and comminges together meaning of our Ecclesiasticall assemblies serue to the same purposes If they take not alwayes nor in all the parties that come together in those assemblies the effect for the which they serue shall wee blame the Churches disposing of the assemblies Or not rather the defaultes of the assembled persons and especially these makers of vnnecessarie dissensions in the assemblies Which if they were repressed with authoritie and the assembled parties do their duties as the Church hath well disposed these assemblies to serue to these good purposes so they would be farre more effectuall then they be And therefore I like better of Caluines note hereon from whoÌ our Brethren séeme to take this saying For sayth he if we respecte what should bee doone in the Church no comming together ought to want frute There is the doctrine of God heard prayers are made the mysteries are celebrated The frute of the worde is that the trust and feare of God should be encreased in vs that proceedinges forward may be made in holines of life that more and more we may put off the olde man and profitte in newnesse of life and the other mysteries tend hereunto that they may exercise vs in godlines and
charitie And also vnto all these things praiers doe availe And to this it coÌmeth that the Lorde worketh effectually by his spirite because hee would not that his institutions should be vaine Therfore if the holy coÌmings together do profitte vs nothing nor that we be any whit better thereupon our vnthankfulnes is in the fault and therefore are we rightly to be accused For we are the doers that those things which of their owne nature and of the ordinance of God ought to be healthful passe away without any profite Thus doth Caluin rightly lay the fault where it is on our owne selues and not on the Churches authoritie or disposing of these assemblies And therefore we haue great maruell that some are so precise in vrging ceremonies as manye thinke muche hyndering aedification but as moste men confesse nothing profiting to aedification hauing alwayes in their mouthe that saying of Saint Paule 1. Cor. 14.40 Let all thinges be done decently and according to an order and doe so little remember that the Apostle in that long Chapter laboureth altogether to driue all thinges to aedification or else to driue them out of the Church As he sayth of him that hath the gift of tongues beeing of it selfe an excellent and comely gift of the holy Ghost and being vsed orderly of one or two by course with an interpreter might do much good in the Church But if there be none interpreter sayth he let him holde his peace in the congregation To vrge ceremonies either much hindring aedificatioÌ or nothing profiting to aedification and to be so precise or to be precise at all in vrging of them although it be not to be marueiled that some do so and that some are so yet is it not to be liked that any should so doe or be But I marueile more that our Brethren marueiling at some that doe and be so doe not finde also that their selues doe it and so be so precisely vrging the ceremonies which they would bring into the Church that vpon this so great precisenes they haue gotten themselues the name of Precisians for it And also for that they are so precise in driuing out those ceremonies which their selues as it should séeme dare not plainely saye or I am sure cannot sufficiently prooue to be naughtie and superstitious ceremonies No nor here they say that they are much hindring aedifycation but as many thinke muche hindring aedifycation And yet they their selues controll this manies thinking also say as it were by correction of their former spéech but as most men confesse nothing profyting to aedifycation But who are these many and these most men that thus thinke or confesse Is it not only their owne selues For if they thinke that other thinke as they thinke herein they thinke greatly amisse and deceaue thâmselues For the most men neither confesse nor thinke any such thing I speake not of the most men among the aduersaries of the Gospel but of the most men among the Protestantes and Professors of the Gospell Neither is there any such cause or truth of matter why they should either so confesse or thinke of any ceremonies that in the Church of England are now vrged But who likewise are these that so vrge them And withal what are these ceremonies which they vrge that many should thinke are much hindring aedifycation or most men should confesse are nothing profyting to aedifycation And howe farre foorth also stretcheth this so precise vrging of them For all these points if they had of our Brethren béen plainely sette downe they might haue béene of vs the easilier and more plainely aunswered But as our Brethren name not these some so would I gladly and for brotherhood-sake impute it to their modestie in forbearing the naming of such estates persons Howbeit because in these spéches they séeme not to meane any blinde and superstitious aduersaries but such as are open professors of the Gospell nor any priuate persons but such as haue authoritie to vrge these things and that they vrge theÌ so precisely although our Brethren do the better to mollifie the terme that they vrge them but precisely and not that they vrge theÌ with any simple absolute necessitie as themselues before did vrge preaching at euery time of administring the sacramentes and of pyblike prayers yet are our Brethren not a little to blame herein thus to gléeke at the Magistrates or at any other their Protestant Brethren with such apparant sclanders that they vrge such hindering or nothing profiting ceremonies and that they vrge the same so precisely Whereas first no ceremonies are at all vrged that is as I take it by authoritie commaunded but such as we can and shall at all times when any such shall be named clearely proue not to hinder but to further aedification And then that being whatsoeuer betwéen our Brethren and vs they shal be proued to be they are not vrged so precisely but onely in such manner as may well stand with our Christian libertie and as toucheth not the fréedome of our conscience at all as any matter of religion but onely in respect of a ciuill or Ecclesiasticall obedience for comlinesse and order sake which is nothing preiudiciall or hindering to aedification but furthering and profiting of it And withall these some that vrge the same are of such estate calling and authorie yea and of such a number so many and the most men besides the most the best among vs that the some or the many or the most men or women among our Brethren and sisters that thinke of these ceremonies otherwise and vrge the abolishing of them as precisely and farre more precisely than anie among vs doe vrge the retayning of them ought rather if they did well bethinke âhemselues either of their duties and callinges or of the nature and vrging of these things both to thinke and to confesse better of the vrgers of them and of thinges vrged and to yéeld vnto them namely in such sorte as they are vrged at least wise if they will not yéelde yet not to disturbe the peace of conscience the vnitie of the Church the quiet of the state and the mutuall bonde of charitie with their intemperate and vnnecessarie striuing against them For whether these ceremonies doe or no certaine it is that not only many thinke and most men confesse but that all of vs saue the common aduersaries that like it and laugh thereat and blowe the coales and warme their handes at the fire thereof must neâdâs graunt that these contentions for these thinges doe not onely nothing profite but much hinder aedification Yea and it were not more of the surmounting mercies of our good God and the helpe and comfort he hath raysed vnto vs by his holy Handmaiden not only the aedification but the whole edifice had long ere this for the visible state thereof among vs beene quite shattered in shiuers and cleane ouerturned And nowe whether we for the
not hindring but rather furthering aedification to driue in those so long ceased and discontinued But if the gifte of tongues while it was in vse were as they here confesse a comely gifte of the holie Ghoste and beeing vsed orderly of one or two by course with an interpreter might doe much good in the Churche howe then doth not comelinesse and order inferre aedification And therefore if the ceremonies offices and giftes of the Church of Englande that are nowe vrged be comely and vsed orderly we may well conclude that in their kindes they be no hinderers but furtherers to aedification But say our Brethren the vncomlinesse that S. Paule reproueth was that womeÌ should preach in the Church as ver 34.35 the disorder that those giftes which serued least for aedifying were preferred before them that serued most for aedifying as tongues before prophecie We graunt S. Paule reprooueth these abuses in the Corinthians Ecclesiasticall assemblies vncomelinesse and disorder But did he reproue none other vncomlinesse in them then that women should preach in the Church as 1. Cor. 14. ver 34. 35 Did hée not reprooue an vncomelinesse in them before both for men and womeÌ too in the 11. chapter ver 13. and 14 Iudge in your selues sayth he is it comely that a woman pray vnto God vncouered Doth not nature it selfe teache you that if a man haue long heare it is a shame vnto him And doth not Saint Paule reprooue them also ver 21.22 For their great vncomelinesse and disorder in the participation of the Lordes supper For euerie man sayeth hee when they should eate eateth his owne supper before and one is hungrie and another is dronken Haue ye not houses to eate and drinke in Dispise ye the Church of God and shame them that haue not VVhat shall I say to you Shall I prayse you in thiâ I prayse you not And appointing them a better order hee concludeth that Chapter with this saying Other thinges will I sette in order when I come Which done he commeth to these giftes whereof now we speake tonges interpreting prophecying c. in the 12.13 and 14. chapters And doth be not here also note that they abused this excellent and comely gifte of tongues as our Brethren call it by their praying or prophecying in a straunge tongue though the same were not interpreted Was not this their abuse therefore of this comely gifte an vncomelinesse in them But our Brethren haue a speciall meaning herein that setting aside al other they onely note this vncomelinesse and say The vncomlynes that S. Paule reprooueth was that women should preach in the Church as ver 34.35 And therfore I thinke it not amisse to coÌsider this point better specially that which here they lead vs vnto And at this they quarelled before pag. 62. and often times threaten kindnes on vs that we maintaine womens administration of Baptisme But do not they theÌselues though it be the more strange to sée their dealing therein euen where they goe about to confute it a great deale more confirme it than we doe Haue not they confessed pag. 59. that whome soeuer God hath instituted to be minister of his worde him also hath hee made to bee minister of the sacrament and that it pertayneth to him to deliuer the seale which deliuereth the writinges Looke then whether this come not néerer to the permission of women to baptize yea and to minister the communion than any thing that they can gather of vs. Except they will flée to this article that heere they still speake of him not of her But shall we thus elude the wordes of the textes also euen there for proofe cited by our Brethren Matth. 28.19 Goe yee foorth and teach all Nations baptizing them and is not both the Latine and Gréeke also ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Baptizantes illos baptizing them onely the Masculine gender As it is more plaine in the other text Mar. 16.15 Goe ye foorth into the whole worlde and preach the Gospell to euerie creature he that shall beleeue and is baptized shall be saued What shall any saye that this article he conteyneth onely men or men children and excludeth women Therefore that shift can not serue but that man or woman may preache by their saying on some occasion and then looke how farre foorth they may preach and deliuer the writings or minister the worde so farre foorth may the same persons men and women by these assertions of our Brethren deliuer the seales and administer the sacramentes also But now what doth Caluine say hereon who is in this point the vehementest of them all that I reade against womens preaching and baptizing Doth he not say euen of these selfe same wordes that our Brethr. referre vs vnto 1. Cor. 14. ver 34. Let your women keepe silence in the Churches for it is not permitted vnto them to speake c. It appeareth that the Church of Corinth was defiled also with this vice that there was place or rather licentiousnes open in the holy assembly to the babling of women He forbiddeth them therefore to speake in publike for the cause of teaching or prophecying But vnderstand this of the ordinarie function or else where there is a set or appointed state of the Church For such a necessitie may happen which may require the voice of a woman But Paul respecteth only what is comly in an assembly orderly coÌposed So that S. Paule heere debarreth not absolutely all womens speaking in the Churche for then how should that be which our Brethren saide before pag. 70. that the whole congregation with one heart with one voice may prayse God with singing of Psalmes all at once Are not women part of the whole congregation so well as men And do not the women also in their congregations sing the Psalmes together with the men And is not this singing publ praying At least wise is it not publ speaking And therfore Caluine first limites those wordes of the Apostle that women are not permitted to speake in the assembly with this restraint to speake for the cause of teaching or prophecying As who say otherwise they may publikly speake well inough Yea for teaching prophecying also he doth not simply forbid the same but vpon necessitie or occasion he alloweth it euen in the holy assembly of men maketh it requisite that a womaÌ may teach or prophecy Neither helpeth it that he saith vpoÌ 1. Cor. 11. ver 5. Euery womaÌ that prayeth or prophecieth bareheaded dishonoreth her head but it seemeth sayth he that this is superfluous that Paul forbiddeth a womaÌ to prophecy bare hedded when as in an other place he doth wholy forbid womeÌ to speak in the Church therfore it shall not be lawfull for them to prophecy no not vnder a veile or couer Wherupon it foloweth that it is here in vaine disputed of the veile or couer It may be answered that the Apostle in improuing the one doth
in such virulent and treacherous manner as doe the aduersaries of the Gospell which her Maiestie defendeth and setteth foorth and wherein chiefely consisteth this her happines bât in an other way-warde and not contented sorte as maintayning such a disordred corrupt and deformed state of the gouernement and discipline of Christs Church As though her reigne suppressed the reigne of Christ and the syncere aduauncing of his kingdome which in the Lordes prayer we desire If her Maiestie did thus what happinesse were there or rather what vnhappinesse were there not in her reigne But now when such as worthily are accounted to be the most learned professours of the Gospell in other Nations and suche as so hardly can brooke womens gouernment smackering too much of the frenche humor as we haue shewed shall notwithstanding giue this honorable testimony of her Maiesty and of her reigne And I hope they do it no more for flatterie than they néede for feare but euen for the truth sake it selfe for except they would suppresse it they can in conscience say no lesse shall now her Maiesties owne subiectes and those Protestantes too that féele the benefite whereat other reioyce so muche for the hearing thereof shall not they confesse as much as doth a straunger What a great ingratitude should this be Howbeit Danaeus confesseth not so much but wée finde much more the experience and benefite of this her most happie reigne God make vs with like thankfulnesse to acknowledge it For certainly if we shall consider al circumstances we shal not choose at leastwise in our consciences though we would not with our mouthes but confesse as much as doth Danaeus that the whole compasse of the worlde hath seene nothing at any time that is more happie or more to bee wished for than is her reigne or gouernement Neither the gouernement vnder the Quéene of Saba or of Gods people vnder Deborah neither yet vnder the most excellent men Dauid Salomon Asa Iehosaphat Iosias or Ezechias no not in Christendome vnder Constantine the greate or the great Charles though their reignes did in some thinges excell her Maiesties reigne yet all thinges pondered especially those kinde of good thinges wherein true happinesse most consisteth Danaeus spake heere a great word but we may well vpholde it for a truthe that the whole circle of the worlde sawe nothing at anie time more happie or blessed and a thing more to bee wished for if men might haue their wishes than is the reigne or gouernement of her Maiestie The Lorde I say againe and againe make vs thankefull to him chiefely and after him to her for the same and vouchsafe to continue and encrease this her most happie and wished reigne still among vs to his further glorie to our aunswerable thankefulnesse and to the refuge succour and comforte of other kingdomes where his Churche also is dispersed and yet by the seducinges and oppressions of Antichriste haue not atteyned to this happinesse and wished state for all their Kinges that wée in Englande vnder our Queene Elizabeth his most happie hand-mayde and our most gratious Soueraigne haue all the time of her reigne and yet God be magnified therefore doe enioye And still shall a straunger say these spéeches and our selues burie them in dumbe silence or if we speake thereof denie it or depraue it This is much to our shame to the great commendation of Danaeus if happily he had staied euen here so concluded vp this question For what could he or anie haue sayde better that coulde more fully confirme the supreme gouernement of a woman to bee lawefull in the Churche of Christe than this so manifest example and present instance of Gods so happily blessing her Maiesties supreme gouernment ouer vs his people But what shall wee foade our selues with all these goodly spéeches when the matter for all this is still impugned For to what purpose doth Danaeus driue all these great prayses of her Maiesties reigne To confirme and establish a womans gouernement Or not rather in the end euen as our Bretheren do but with a more cunning compasse to vndermine it And yet our Brethren as we haue heard cast foorth now then very fayre spéeches of her Maiestie of her happie reigne of her lawfull gouernmeÌt also But when it commeth to the very point they not only refuse to obey her Maiesties lawes and gouernmeÌt but they so cry out vpon the same as a most deformed corrupt state of gods Church that all their praysings are nothing comparable to their dispraysinges What a strange kinde of dealing is this in so high matters and with such great and noble personages It is an old saying Non est bonum ludere cum sanctis And shall wee dally thus in the chiefest matters of estate with Princes What could haue béen more auouched for confirmation of a womans lawfull gouernement then this so high recommending to all the worlde her Maiesties gouernement Solemnely pronouncing Verily for Elizabeth the Queene of Englande that nowe most happily raigneth the circuite of the worlde hath seene nothing at any time more happie or blessed and more to be wished for then is here reigne If here Danaeus haue not flattered as he had no cause but spoken as indéede we finde it the verie trueth what then can he afterwarde or all the circuite of the worlde alleage against this so excellent a president of Gods approbation for womens supreme gouernement In very déede nothing can be rightly opposed that shall euer be able to ouerturne this instance And verily if Danaeus shall nowe alleage any thing against the lawefulnesse of a womans supreme gouernment ouer Gods people he shall but contrarie and werie himselfe in vaine as we sawe howe Caenalis did And in the ende we shall sée likewise how Danaeus fayre and softly driues the matter not only to the same but to a farre worse pitche though in better spéeches and with more learning For Danaeus hauing gone thus farre dare not nowe say that the gouernement of women is a naughtie vnhonest or monstrous thing which terme Caluine vsed for then all the worlde would haue straightway séene it and cryed out vpon it as a grosse and manifest contradiction But he so fetcheth it about by little and little vnder hande that in the end it comes all to one passe as if had flat and plaine denied it And first here as he hath so highly commended her Maiesties raigne so will he not séeme to discommend but to giue at least some sober commendation to those that will admitte no such gouernment Notwithstanding sayth he those people seeme to haue wisely looked vnto their profite which haue taken heede vnto or prouided by their lawes and by a right or lawe publike least that women should rule among them and ouer them and should haue the chiefe right and gouernement If we conferre the sexe of the woman with the mans because that vnto manie offices which the
great and waightie causes will be a sufficient starting hole to saue all vpright themselues froÌ pronouncing the definitiue sentence against themselues that their doing is not the dutie of true Pastors No that will not helpe them For these matters beeing but ceremoniall matters as they call them and so not great and waightie what great waightie causes should moue a true Pastor by his priuate iudgement to controll publike order in those thinges that are concluded by lawefull authoritie of the Church concerning ceremonial matters for order and comlines sake for aedification Shal any priuate man thinke if he think them to be indéede the Church of God that the Churches concluding of those thinges by lawefull authoritie proceeded not of greater and waightier causes than his controllment And therefore except men shall make so litle light account of the true Church of God and of her conclusions and orders by lawefull authoritie as to preferre euerie priuate mans or Pastors priuate iudgement before hers our Brethren by this their owne conclusion must either néedes yéeld to the Church of Englandes publike conclusion and lawfull authoritie concerning these ceremoniall matters that they are to be obserued for order and comelines sake and for aedification as the Church of England hath decréed them and not to controll publike order by priuate iudgement or else let our Brethr. herken to their owne conclusiue sentence and determination that they do not the dutie of true Pastors And thus much also for these ceremonies We haue hetherto intreated of the proper dutie of a Pastor himselfe now it followeth that we likewise set foorth his authoritie in common gouernement with the Elders But least any man should mistake that which we purpose to say of his authoritie we haue need to expresse what we meane by this worde authoritie For euen those things that we haue shewed before to be the dutie of a Pastor may also be called his authoritie as to preach and teach wherein is included his authoritie to forgiue and reteine sinnes Also his authoritie to minister the sacraments and to doe other thinges in the Church which none may doe but he But in this place we vnderstande authoritie for power of gouernement in the Church Whereof the Apostle speaketh that it is one of the graces and giftes of God necessarie for the building of his Church This authority of regiment we haue declared that it ought not to be a Lordly ruling neither ouer their flocke nor yet ouer their fellow seruants and brethren and least of all that they ought to haue dominion or Lordship ouer the faith of the Church Our Brethren here promise to sette foorth that part of the Pastors authoritie which they say he hath not of the proper dutie of a Pastor himselfe but in common gouernement with the Elders But because these wordes as they are grounded on the presupposall of that Eldershippe which they make one part of their Ecclesiasticall Tetrarchie not dealing with the woorde so promising âo treate of the authoritie of the Pastor in common gouernement they séeme their selues to doubt that except they should expounde what they meane thereby it might easily bee mistaken what they meant Neither doubt they this mistaking without a cause which of purpose shunne the plaine and vsuall approoued distinction of the authoritie or power of the order and of the iurisdiction But what-so-euer authoritie of the Pastor they will nowe sette foorth and make playne what they meane thereby when as they faye For euen those thinges which wee haue shewed before to be the dutie of a Pastor may also bee called his authoritie as to preache and teach wherein is included his authoritie to forgiue and retaine sinnes if this authoritie of the Pastor to forgiue and retayne sinnes bee included in his authoritie of preachinge and teaching and withall this bee a thing appertaining to the proper dutie of a Pastor himselfe as also is his authoritie to minister the Sacramentes and to doe other thinges in the Churche which none may doe but hee then haue not the Elders to deale in the authoritie of forgiuing and retayning sinnes For if they shoulde they shoulde intermeddle with the worde For this is included in preaching and teaching But our Brethren exclude the gouerning Elders from preaching and teaching therefore withall they exclude them from the authoritie of forgiuing and retayning sinnes And this by the way is not vnnecessarie to bee héere obserued because afterwarde they giue authoritie of forgiuing and retayning sinnes vnto the gouerning Elders which they confesse are not Teachers nor Preachers nor dealers at all with the worde But doeth not this authoritie of the Pastor belong to iurisdiction And therefore not onely the authoritie of his order to which properly preaching and teaching and ministring the Sacramentes doe appertayne but the authoritie also of iurisdiction to which the power of forgiuing and retayning sinnes appertayneth is the proper dutie of the Pastor himselfe which none may doe but he and is an authoritie separate from that his authoritie which is in common gouernment with the Elders or with any other which are not Pastors in the Church And as for that power of gouernment in the Church whereof the Apostle speaketh 1. Cor. 12.28 That it is one of the graces and gifte of God necessarie for the building of his Church S. Paule maketh not all the graces and giftes of God which there he speaketh of necessarie for the building of his Church if we speake of such perpetuall necessitie as that the Church can neuer be without them For S. Paul reckoneth vp there great offices graces and giftes of God that are not necessarie in that sense As euen the first office that he beginneth there withall of Apostles besides the giftes of healinges the giftes of powers or of working mightie myracles and the gifts of diuerse kinds of languages All which are not now so necessary in our dayes nor many hundreth yeres sithence to the building of Gods Church Neither is it agréeed vppon by the best interpreters what manner of grace and gift of God this power of gouernment in the Church was which S. Paule in that place speaketh of For albeit Beza say he declareth the order of Elders that were keepers of the Discipline and policie Ecclesiasticall yet sayth Aretius it is a politicall facultie of administring the common weale and of ruling others commodiouslie and of conseruing them in order which gift is necessarie in Magistrates And while the Churche wanted a politique Magistracie certaine choosen Elders gouerned the assemblyes of the faithfull as it were an ordinarie Magistracie Héere in déede hée sayeth this gifte is necessarie but he addeth in whome to witte in Magistrates and yet he specifieth in what kinde of Magistrates to witte politicall and in the administring of the common wealth not the Ecclesiastical discipline And withall he limiteth a time how long this gift of
not doe their duety But those men ought first to haue made demonstration that their seniors haue this power whereof in present Paul speaketh Which thing when as by no argumeÌt it appeareth and neuerthelesse they deliuer to Sathan whome they will they do alike as if any would attempt to cleanse the lepers to rayse the dead to worke such other myraclous worke For because that in the olde time suche thinges were commonlye doone in the primitiue Church Thus agayne Gualter and on these graces and giftes of of God grounding this Ecclesiasticall Seniory not of the Worde ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Gouernmentes but on the former worde ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã Powers betokening such power as is myraculous which although some Seniors in the Church than had it yet he alleageth the examples heereof that such onely exercised the same in Ecclesiasticall matters as were Ministers of the Word But howsoeuer these Seniours were or what power soeuer they had he maketh them and their power not to bée perpetuall but abiding a while onely for the state of that time and so to haue ceased after that the publike state of Christendome was setled and gouerned by such princes and Magistrates as openly professed Christianity and that from thence foorth the Churches were not tyed to such Seniors but that wee after thus many ages of Christian princes be frée from them So that where our Brethren say they will not nowe set foorth the pastors authority in common Gouernment with the Elders If there bée no néede of such Elders to ioyne in commons with him in his gouernment then as the other authority was proper to him-selfe so may this authority for power of gouernment in the Church for any thing héere to the contrary bee as proper also to him-selfe as the other For if these graces and giftes whereof the Apostle 1. Cor. 12.28 speaketh were such distinct offices as our brethren say can not be but in distinct officers without confusion of theÌ then eyther these giftes pertaine not to the Pastors so well as to these Elders as here our Brethren say they doe or else if the Pastors haue authority in them than haue not Elders to deale with them except wee shoulde inferre this confession that they woulde haue vs shunne But nowe our brethren giuing this authority in common with the Elders procéede to the limittation of the same and say This authority of regiment we haue declared that it ought not to bee a Lordly ruling neither ouer their flocke nor yet ouer their fellow-seruants and bret and least of all that they ought to haue dominion Lordship ouer the faith of the Church Dominion and Lordship ouer the faith of the Church we graunt none hath but almighty God and Iesus Christe only that is both God and Man As for the other authority which they cal Lordly ruling ouer their flocke or ouer their fellowe-seruauntes and Brethren as they referre vs to that they haue declared so I referre them to that we haue declared And among other I hope I haue sufficiently declared what manner of ruling they may haue both ouer their flocke and ouer their fellow-seruaunts and brethren both by the worde of God by the practise of the Primitiue Church and by the approbation of diuerse the best learned protestants in the reformed Churches of our age But how this authoritie of Gouernment which here they giue in common to the pastors with the Elders shall be parted among them is not yet determined For albeit our Brethren acknowledge that the Pastors haue rule and authority herein yet the forme of prayers in the English congregation at Geneua doth deny it and say Pag. 43. Because the charge of the Worde of God is of greater importaunce than that any man is able to dispence therewith and S. Paul exhorteth to esteem them as Ministers of Christe and disposers of Gods mysteries not Lordes or rulers as Peter saith ouer the flocke therefore the Pastors or Ministers cheef office standeth in preaching the word of God and Ministring the sacraments So that in consultations iudgements elections and other politicall affayres his counsell rather then authority taketh place So that by this rule he is so far from al lordly ruling that he hath no rule nor authority at all in Common with the Elders in these matters But of the twaine our Brethren here say better that hee hath authority vnderstanding it for power of gouernment in the Church But say our Brethren In all these the man of sinne hath exalted him selfe contrary to the worde of God so that hee woulde bee heade of all the Church Bishop of all Bishops and haue authority to make newe articles of Fayth Whose intollerable presumption as wee haue long since banished out of this land so wee wish that no steppes of suche Pride and arrogancy might be left beyond him namely that no elder or Minister of the Church shoulde challenge vnto him-selfe or accept it if it were offered vnto him any other authority than that is allowed by the spirite of God but cheefely to be ware that he vsurpe no authoritie which is forbidden by the word of God For wherefore doe we detest the Pope and his vsurped supremacy but because he arrogateth the same vnto him-selfe not onely without the warrant of Gods word but also cleane contrary to the same All this section we confesse with our Brethren and gladly subscribe vnto it saue that we wish it not as though it were onely to be done and is not done but we trust it is perfourmed already If it bee not let our Brethren prooue the contrary Nowe if the reasons and authorities that haue banished the Pope doe serue to condemne all other vsurped authority that is practized in the Church why shoulde not all such authority be banished as well as the Pope And good reason too that all other vsurped authority that is practized in the Churche shoulde bee as well banished as the Pope But doe our brethren meane by these spéeches of all other vsurped authoritie that is practized in the Church that there is any such practised in the Church meaning the church of England For these words are vttered so couertly that we might seeme in granting the consequence that such shoulde be banished to graunt withall that there is some such in the church of England remaining and practised yet among vs. But we deny that there is any such to our knowledge or by the Lawes approoued in this Realme And if there bée any steppes thereof I doubt they will rather bee founde in the trake of our Brethren themselues sooner than in any part of that authoritie which is allowed to our prelates We can alleage against the Pope and rightly that which S. Iohn baptist did aunswere to his Disciples No man can take vnto him-selfe any thing except it be giuen him from heauen Iohn 3.27 And that saying of the Apostle to the Hebrewes
consented vpon to be done And it is one thing to doe or how to doe the things that are consented vpon to bée done and another thing to consent that such things should be done For the Churches regiment in these matters consisteth most in the consent as heere is sayde to authorize them to bee done and the Bishoppes or the Pastors regiment in the authoritie of dooing or executing of them But for the consent of them to be done what is this that they call here a consent of his householde seruants Is it requisite that expresse consent be had of all those that are Christs householde seruants that is to saie of euerie particular person in the Church What if it séeme otherwise to some one or few that will giue no consent thereto but dissent Doth this cut off the Churches regiment No. For our Brethren to proue that all thinges must be done with the Churches consent alleadge this sentence If two of you consent vpon earth vpon anie matter whatsoeuer yee shall aske it shall be graunted you of my Father which is in heauen And must this consent then of the regiment of the Church be contracted to anie two of the householde seruants though the most part of all the other that bee no lesse seruants and faithfull seruants of the Lordes household doe dissent from them But wherefore doe our Brethren alleage this sentence to this matter To confirme their regiment in the Church being in comparison but two to two thousand that haue consented to the orders of the Churches regiment now established and they dissent from our consent herein Indéede were it matter of faith in doctrine and substance of religion or anie thing alreadie prescribed not onely the consent of two and the dissent of one is better than the consent of all the rest in errour as wee alleadge Gerson and Panormitane against the Papists when they boast of consent and Councels against the manifest truth of Gods word but when wee all therein agrée with full consent against all the errours and superstitions of the Papists and yet in some matters of Ceremonies of their owne nature indifferent and of those pointes in the Churches regiment that concerne comelinesse order and edification some seruants of the householde dissent from other some whether is it better that many and almost all and the most experient and that in matters of regiment and counted as learned as anie of the other and the chiefest also in authoritie yea the Prince also hauing the supreame authoritie and that in the publyke regiment of Ecclesiasticall matters shoulde giue place to two or three or to a few persons dissenting or that these fewe shoulde leaue their dissention giue place and consent to the greater and better parte of the companie And will God graunt the requests consented vppon by two or thrée and not their requestes consented vppon by so manye thousandes when they are also gathered in the name of Christe as not onelie the people are in our publik praiers but also all the estates of the whole realme and chiefe partes of the Church of England all which haue often bene assembled and giuen alredy their consent to the establishment of this forme of the Churches regiment that we haue And therefore this promise of our Sauiour Christ if it may be drawen to matters of publike Ecclesiasticall regiment doth more and more confirme vs in our forme established that God approues it and was in the middest of them that consented on it and is still in the middest of our assemblies gathered in his name when we direct our actions according therevnto And now seeing that our Sauiour Christ hath neither authorized nor promised to blesse anie other forme of regiment than that which consisteth of the consent and gathering together of his seruants in his name we holde vs content with this simplicitie and therefore we are bolde to saie that God hath promised to blesse and as we haue found the experience if we haue grace in thankfulnesse to acknowledge his manifolde blessings hath diuerse wayes alredie blessed our forme of regiment which with such consent and gathering together of his seruants in his name is established And our brethren haue not to be ouerbolde but rather to feare bethinke theÌselues how they gather themselues in consent and consort against this authorized form of regiment least their gathering together bréed a banding in factions of themselues to dissipate the vnitie of the Church to make scismes amongest vs. And nowe where our Brethren conclude this Section saying And therefore wee are bolde to saie that the authoritie of a pastor in publike regiment or discipline separate from others is nothing at all I will be bolde also to saie thus much that it is nothing at all against our pastors authoritie in publik regiment or discipline For as they haue described it he hath none such giuen him nor exerciseth anie such by anie authoritie in this Realme established that is separate from others that is to saie as before our Brethren haue expounded their meaning a Monarchiall authoritie or sole absolute gouernment But that is referred peculiarlie to our Sauior Christ onelie 1. Tim. 6. v. 7. Iude. 4. Otherwise if they meane not such authoritie I dare be bold again to saie thus much that not onlie this exception of Christs Monarchical or sole absolute authoritie is alleaged here in vaine is nothing at all vnto the abridging of the Bishop or Pastors authoritie but that also in manner and matter afore rehearsed a Bishoppe or Pastor hath a greate authoritie separated by himselfe as the foresayde examples and preceptes to Timothie haue declared Let vs then see what is his authoritie ioyned with others first who are so ioyned in Commission with him that without their consent hee can doo nothing We saie therefore that the authoritie of Christ is lefte vnto his whole Church and so to euerie Church that none maye chalenge Episcopall or Metropoliticall authoritie as it is with vs at this day ouer other without great tyrannie and manifest iniurie That the Pastor or the Bishop can doo nothing by his authoritie in the gouernment of the Church without the consent of others ioyned in commission with him for euerie particular act that he must doo our brethren haue not yet proued Yea wee haue shewed the cleane contrarie both in making Ministers and in admitting hearing iudging and determining of their caused by their owne authoritie without anie ioyned in commission with them Not that they did all thinges alone but vsed the counsell and consent of others and perhaps of the whole Churches but that they were not ioyned in coÌmission with them nor were their equals in the authoritie of those doings Neither is this conclusion better than the antecedent We saie therfore that the authoritie of Christ is left vnto his whole Church and so to euerie Church c. For my parte I dare not bee thus bolde to affirme
like to this for the administration of gouernment and to haue the hearing of all difficult waighty matters amoÌg vs as the Sanedrin had among the Iewes if this be as our Brethren in the title of this their Learned Discourse do say a breefe plain declaration of the desires of al those faithful Ministers that haue do seeke for the discipline reformation of the Church of England If our Br. aske to mary this Abisag her Maiesty then in-déedâ may quickly say as Solomon did Let them aske the kindom too For what is here left in temporal politike and worldly matters or in the gouernment and state of the kingdome wherein these Seniors will not haue a stroke yea and a negatiue voice and that in euery parish which is cleane different froÌ the Sanhedrin For both their lesse kind of Sanedrin either greater as they afterward deuided it was only in one place for all the realm As first at Sylo and then at Ierusalem the head citie vntill these last alterations came Where as our Br. would haue the like if not the same to be erected in euery congregation which is the playne ouerthrowe of a kingdom to make euery congregatioÌ a kingdoÌ in it self For if it be not such a Senate as was their Sanedrin then is it not the same nor like the same that Christ they say did heere allude vnto And if it be not then do they plainly delude vs and wrest Christes wordes in gathering such allusions and building on them and inforcing on vs this their Seniory by force hereof And say that here Christe also translated the same into his church in the newe Testament And yet when all is done they must néeds confesse that it is cleane different For in both these consistories of the Sanedrin the greater of the 70. and the lesse of the 23. They were all eyther Preestes or Doctors of the Lawe and teachers the King and the Princes or noble peeres onlie excepted So that except they will be Kings Princes or noble Peeres all these Seniors must not bee gouernors not teaching but Interpreters Doctors teachers of the Law of God or else they be neither the same nor the like nor fiâte at all to be any Seniors in this Senate And whereas Beza saith in his Christian Confession cap. 5. artic 32. but we must know that this Iurisdiction hee speaketh of these Seniors doth not appertaine to earthly and transistory matters and is altogether different from the ciuile as witnesseth Christe and after Christe Paul although eyther of them particularly comprehendeth all the faithfull without exception for al are also thral to âhe ciuil Magistrate whose power also in respect is ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã an edifying or building power so farre forth as it ought to procure peace ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã good order or discipline especially inthose things that respect the first table And on the other side ther is none which should not be subiect to the word of God so of coÌsequeÌce vnto the eccl discipline Howbeit I confesse the apostle willeth that for the cause of auoiding offence Christians should iudge their coÌtrouersies priuatly without the ciuil magistrate But it appeareth sufficiently that Paul which followed the steps of Christ and of all the saintes would not therefore withdraw any thing from the ciuil iurisdiction nor confound those things that the Lord hath distinguished but only haue consideration of the time in the which it could not be that the faythfull should contend before infidel Iudges but that they should bee thrall to diuerse slaunders For the which cause hee admonisheth the Corinehians that all such kinde of controuersies should rather be eyther once taken away or taken vp by domesticall debating of them This admonition therefore of Paule doth nothing fauour the furious and giddi-brayned Anabaptistes which leaue no place to the Ciuill Magistrate in a Christian Church To returne therefore to the matter there is a certaine ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction but vtterly distinguished from the ciuill Thus writeth Beza of the Iurisdiction of these Seniors to be mere Ecclesiasticall and cleane different from the ciuill Iurisdiction Yea Danaeus also concludeth as is foresaide in the 10. chapter saying For although the Presbytery or Synedrion of the Iewes which was the same Act. 22. verse 5. 30. in Math. 5. ver 22. seemeth to aunswere to our presbytery iudged often of certaine causes notwithstanding our Presbyteries doe not iudge and thereupon are different from those of the Iewes Because they had partly politicall partly Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction both together as appeareth Esd. 10 verse v. But our presbyteries haue only Ecclesiasticall it pertaineth indeede to their office and function to reclaim if they can to peace and concorde the faithfââââleading or about to plead Verily they ought to exhort them to mâtuall charity Cor. 6. verse 1. Mat. 5.25 But to sit Iudges in their pleaes they ought not for this is the office of the ciuill magistrate Yea neither the whole presbytery neither any part of the presbytery ought so much as to be chosen arbytrators but onely as priuate men if any of the presbytery be taken to be arbytrators If this be true than is all this deuise of translating the Sanedrin of the Iewes into the newe testament and Church of Christe or of willing the like thereof to be established in his Church for administration of gouernment quite ouerthrown For what the Iewes eldership was we haue seene at large already And yet there were then also Ciuill Magistrates aswell as now And therfore if Christ had translated their Sanedrin vnto vs ours might haue like authority as theirs had notwithstanding our ciuill Magistrates But besides this in generall that Danaeus here confesseth that the presbyteries of the Iewes Iudged often in some causes and mixed together the temporall and Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction which our brethren mislike in the Bishops and ministers Chytraeus also vpon the 17. of Deut. Tit. de Iudiciis doth confirme the moste of that which we haue shewed at large out of Bertram Sigonius for the Iewes Iudgements and Sanhedrin saying Three kindes of iudgements are written to haue beene distinguished among the Iewes vnto whome it is agreeable that Christ alludeth Math 5 in the declaration of the ten commaundements setting down the degrees and differences of sinnes repugnant to the Lawe thou shalt not kill And that he woulde declare the same out of the forme of the ciuill iudgements accustomed to the people Heer 's he ãâ¦ã of Christes more proper alluding to the Iewes orders in thâse thinges But doth he gather thereupon that the same ciuile iudgements were either translated or the like to them established amongst vs The first was Triumuirall ouer the which were Gouernors in euerie Citie three men In the which money matters and the lighter trespasses of bearings of priuaâe iniuâies of theââ c. wer decided They suppose that Christe signified that
âet in Timothies person he gaue those precepts to all Bishops and Pastors wherein no other kinde of Elders ordinarily nor the congregation doâ ioyne with the Bishops or Pastors in the authority of teaching though in obedience and consent of hearing And so in these matters concerning the hearing and determining of Ecclesiasticall Discipline and iudicial causes he giueth Timothy and in Timothies person other Bishops and such superior pastors as he was the charge and authority of a righteous Iudge But the Iudges authority is singuler to the Iudge and not communicated with other no though they sit on the Bench with him as his assistantes but such onely as are of his function Iudges as hee is and ioyned in the same commission with him How this authoritie was was not singular therefore S. Paule giueth to Timothy and in his person to Bishops and such Pastors a singular authority in hearing and determining of such matters Not singular I graunt as though none might heare them but hee alone or that hee might aske no counsell or consent of any other for such singularity were rather a deharre than a graunt of authority or were an insolent abuse thereof Neither so doth any Iudge if any assistants be on the bench with him But the Iudge onely hath the cheefe authority and that is his singuler authority though not absolute As for the Eldership whereof Saint Paul maketh mention a little before We haue heard also Caluines opinion thereon that it may be aswel vnderstoode in that place for the office of the Eldership as for any consistorie or company of the Elders And therfore vpon the vncertainty of that Worde they can builde little certaintie for their consistoriall Elders The conclusion which heere they make depending all vpon the premisses is no further to be graunted than the premisses do inferre The learned disc Pag. 98. 99. In steede of which Antichriste hath set vp a tyrannicall Iurisdiction of one Bishop to bee iudge of Excommunication which is practized neither for causes sufficient nor by sufficient authority insomuch as it hath bene already testified by the Scripture that the power of Excommunication is in no one man no not in an Apostle but is common to the whole Church and ought to be executed by lawfull delegats of the Church also The tyrannicall iurisdiction that Antichriste hath set vp we no more acknowledge Bridges than our Brethren But that all Iurisdiction of one B. to be Iudge of Excommunication which is practized for causes sufficient not onely to want sufficient authority but to be called tyrannical and set vp by Antichriste Is not truely spoken nor Christian like Except they will make S. Paul Antichriste As for that which they haue already testified by the Scripture doth manifestly confirme that one man as the Apostle and Timothy and in his person Slaunderous speeches Bishops and pastors in like manner may execute the power of excommunication For although this ecclesiasticall power be giuen to the Church as likewise the ciuil power is giuen to the assemblies and congregations of men How the power of Excommunication is giuen to the Church yet is neither of them common to the whole Church as our Brethren heere say but is proper to those persons in or of the Church and of the assemblies of men which persons are of God or man lawfully called therunto Neither are the persons that haue the practise and executing of the power of excommunication to be so properly calleâ the Churches delegates as Gods delegates or Ministers in the same and represent God therein not the Church But admitting it be common to the whole church and yet ought onely to be executed by lawfull delegates of the church if that whole perticular church The Excommunicator is more properly Gods delegate than the Churches do make him that is their onely Lawfull Bishop to be also their onely Lawfull delegate in executing the power of Excommunication and doe not delegate a number of more with him then by their own confession some one man and that the Bishop may alone execute the authority and power of excommunication But so much that vsurped authoritie presumeth that the Bishoppe as an absolute owner thereof The learned discourse Pag 99. committeth it ouer to his Chauncellor or Archdeacon and the Archdeacon to his Officiall and he to his register and hee agayne to his substitute and his substitute to his seruaunts man or boy as it hapneth in so much that a learned Preacher may be excommunicated by a foolish boy If this matter seeme not to require speedy reformation God hath blinded our eyes that wee can not see the cleare light of the Sonne shining in our faces These terms of vsurpation presumption and to be as an owner and as an absolute owner of this authority Bridges are speeches considering the vntrueths and reprochfulnesse of them little beséâming learned preachers And much lesse the other of committing this authorty to Registers and to substitutes and to the Substitutes seruantes man or boy I verily beleeue thad our Brethren if they were well apposed coulde not prooue any such Excommunication to bee made Which in-déede if it were done is no Excommunication at all Slanderous speeches if it bee not rather their bare surmise But perchance at the fourth or fift hand they heard of such a thing and they by and by for the good liking and opinion they haue of Bishops their chauncellers Archdeacons and Officials Charitas non est suspicax did beléeue it For the tale caried greate credit Some boy tolde them that some seruaunt tolde him that some Substitute tolde him that he had heard it tolde of some Register But who the Register Substitute Seruaunt man or boy was or is that we must go looke as the boy sayth to his dog séeke out It is proofe ynough for our Brethren that some boy tolde them that he heard say so And therefore as a matter nowe out of all doubt it must in all hast to the presse and be confirmed in print with this exclamation Insomuch that a learned preacher may be excommunicated by a foolish boy If a foolish boy had written this it had béene the more tollerable But should such Learned Preachers in the name of all the faythful Ministers Our Br. vnequall dealing in this slaunder that haue and doe seeke for the reformation of the Church of England in this their Learned Discourse of Ecclesiasticall Gouernment thus solemnly alleage such boyish slaunders or if there shoulde by corruption haue hapned any such like thing shoulde they thus heighnously burthen or chalenge the state and authority of the Bishops for such an abuse or odde escape stollen out which our Bishops doe no lesse detest than do our Brethren their-selues No likelihood in this slaunder and would punish and reform if they can name the parties and proue the offence but that I thinke before hand they can not do Nay there is
no likelihood of any such matter We suffer not either Officiall or Archdeacon or Chancelor to excommunicate any without a Minister of the word ioyned with him do denounce the sentence of Excommunication And can then a Register yea the Registers substitute and the Substitutes man or the mans boy Excommunicate I will not say Preacher learned or vnlearned but any one man or women in all England I deny not a boy may write the sentence and forme of wordes and counterfait or clap to the right seale also of the office and may pack with the sommoner to cary it forth If such an abuse were it were no com and so there might happen by such ill dealing a shewe and terror of Excommunication But as this is not any Excommunication indéede and therefore our Brethren say not truely that the authority is thus committed from one to another that a learned preacher may be excommunicated by a foolish boy so when it shoulde come to aunswering in the court it woulde soone be found out to be a meere false and sauing your reuerence knauish forgery But if they may discredite lawfull authorities for such abuses The state not to bee slaundered for the abuses they may endaunger the power and authority of all courtes and offices when any false varlets practise such corruptions and if there be any such abuses of this high power of excommunication It is our brethrens dutie to make the offenders knowe and not to impugne or discredite the aucthority by picking such quarrels if such speeches may be thus freely cast forth atraÌdoÌ on bare surmises or rather on mere slanders till they bring forth the persons if this slaundering seeme not vnto them to require as speedy reformation as any such facts if any such were coÌmitted what shal I return their words on their own selues that God hath blinded their eyes that they can not see the cleare light of the Sunne shining in their faces verily affection hath so dazeled at the leaste these our Br. eyes that they doe not I will not say they will not see the difference of the Lawful authority of the accidentall abuses of the same beeing as plaine set affection aside as the cleare Sunne shining in their faces For if we looke to bannish the tyranny of the Pope out of all mens heartes The learned disc Pag. 99. wee must vtterly remoue all his detestable enormities out of the realme as it was wont to be said in the coÌmon prayers of the church in the time of K. Henrie and Edward where as now by reteining still all the detestable enormities of his prerogatiue and faculties and whol course of his Canon law the papacy is not so much banished in name as translated in-deede from the sea of Rome to the sea of Canterbury vnder the shadowe of the Princes Supremacy with as heighnous iniurie and contumelie of the lawfull authority and Godly Supremacie of the Prince as ioyned with the greate dishonor of God and the miserable disorder of the Church But wee meane not in this place to prosecute our iust complaints nor to inueigh against the abuse of these thinges with such vehemency of wordes as the worthinesse of the matters deserueth but onely in setting foorth the plaine trueth to giue a glimpse by the way of the contrary falshood Are these our Br. glimpses what should we looke for Bridges if they woulde as they say with vehemencie prosecute their complaints What foule daÌgerous slanders our Brethren here breake foorth into Not only al the Prelates but all the Church of England accused as good as with high treason that when they giue but a glimpse by the way burthen all the state of the Church and Realme of England to retaine still all the detestable enormities of the Popes prerogatiue and faculties and the whole course of his Canon Lawe And that the papacie is not so much banished in name as translated indeede from the Sea of Rome to the sea of Canterburie With what conscience can our Brethren affirme these thinges is not the Popes Supremacie a preÌrogatiue of his detestable enormities which being banished out of the Realme and Church of England how can it be sayde that all the detestable enormities of his prerogatiue are still reteined and whereas to retaine the prerogatiue of the Popes Supremacie is high treason what is this any other than to accuse all the Church and Realm of Eng. besides theÌselues to be high traitors against her Maiesty And what a like slaunder is this that we retain his faculties yea the whole curse of his Canon Lawe If this be true then doth the Realme and Church of England as much acknowledge the Supremacie of the Pope as euer it did Which if it do not then is this a moste vntrue and shamefull slaunder The verse Papistes their selues are able to controule them and all the worlde may see the cleane contrary Yea Our Br. own conuincing themselues of this their slaundering of vâ howe agreeth this with that which their-selues haue confessed and prefixed in the Preface of this their Learned Discourse for our acquitance against this slander that the substance of religion hath in diuers assemblies abroad and at home bin dispatched resolued now publikely maintained for our true and holy fayth If the whole course of the Canon Law be still mayntayned which hath many errors superstitious Idolatries and open blasphemies how maintaine we the true and holy faith and if papacy be but banished in name and not in-deede how do our Brethren and wee agree in the substance of Religion Do they accuse them selues herein also Our Br. too vndutifull slaunder of her Maiesty Yea howe do they not accuse withall most vnnaturally the Queenes moste excellent Maiesty For if papacy be but translated from Rome to Canterbury It is not gone very farre from the Court. And who translated it thether coulde this translation be made without her Maiesties authoritie or did that most renounâed prince King Henry the eight or that moste vertuous Prince his sonne King Edward the sixt both of them Kings of moste worthie memorie whome these our Learned Discoursers so breefely here in their haste snap vp by the tearmes onely of King Henry and Edward make this translation of the papacy from Rome to Canterbury and her Maiestie approoue onely and confirme this translation Translation of Papacy to Canterbury But they say it is translated thether vnder the shadow of Princes the supremacie What mean they by this hath the Prince translated it to the Sea of Canterburie for a shadowe or doth the prince maintain or reteyâe it or doth the Princes supremacie shadowe Papacie These speeches are so daungerous so reprochfull so spitefull so vndutifull and not subiect-like so manifest vntrue without all shadows but not without as heighnous iniury and contumely of the lawfull authority and Godly supremacy of the Prince as ioyned with great dishonour of God and the miserable
disorder of moste slaunderous speeches cast foorth on the Prince on the Peeres on the Prelates on the people on the whole Church and Realme of England that I much maruaile that they would euer let them escape their lippes or conceiue them in their hearts and much more penne them in writing and publish them in print and commende them to the worlde with the title of a Learned Discourse Surely this a verie vnlearned vnaduised vngodlie and disloiall part Whatsoeuer they had in the gaule of their zeale powred foorth on vs would God they had neuer attempted so vntruely to deface both their and our so gracious godlie louing and most blessed soueraigne Do they thinke to shadowe them-selues and to salue vp all againe in saying Our Br. mockery of her Maiesties supremacy this is done with as heighnous iniury and contumely of the lawfull authority and godly supremacy of the Prince In-deede this is more subiect-like to bee offended that any iniury or contumely should be offered to the Lawfull authority and godly supremacy of the Prince But when they say withall that all the detestable enormities of the Popes praerogatiue and faculties and whole course of Canon Lawe is nowe still reteined and that the Papacie is not so much banished in name as translated in deede from the sea of Rome to the sea of Canterbury and that all this is done vnder the shadow of the Princes Supremacie what lawfull authoritie or godlie supremacie of the Prince make they this to be And is not this dooing and saying then of theirs a méere mockerie and contradiction with an heighnous iniurie and contumelle of the lawfull authoritie and godlie supremacie of the Prince Yes verelie and ioyned with great dishonor of God and miserable disorder of the Church that euer such disordered speaches should be suffered But we may soone gesse whether for these parts of the Papacie We maywel see by these speeches whether for diuerse pointes the papacy wold be traÌslated to wit soule-mouthed slanders not sparing to offer iniuries and contumelies to their naturall and Souereigne Prince for making and imposing another Canon Lawe and a new kinde of Supremacie of pastors and Seniors should be translated not from Rome to Canterburie though neither we nor they can well tell from whence but whether euen to euerie seuerall Parish and Congregation For what could all the papistes or the Pope himselfe haue said more or worse against the Prince the Church and the Realme of England than these out learned Discoursing Brethren haue comprehended in these distempred speaches And now when they haue thus disgorged all this choller for verie anger that they can not haue their gouerning Presbyters and not not preaching Priests to exercise this power of the keyes and discipline of the Church they conclude as it were slinging away in a chase from further treatise of their Gouernors saying But we minde not in this place to prosecute our iust complaints nor to inueigh against the abuse of these thinges with such vehemencie of words as the worthinesse of the matters deserueth but onelie in setting foorth the plaine truth to giue a glimpse by the way of the contrarie falshoode All that our Br say must be plaine truth iust complaints all our sayings and doings are with them contrarie falshoods abuses All these foul speeches are but our Br. glimpses by the way and yet these al their other so foule speaches are forsooth but their glimpses by the way What will these fellowes doo trow we wheÌ they come directlie vpon vs with such vehemencie of words as they say the worthinesse of the matters deserueth But since they threaten vs as it were bidde vs expect in some other place where belike they minde to prosecute these complaints inuectiues with greater vehemencie Our Br. for warning â greater âââectiues we may yet thanke them for this curtesse that they giue vs before hande so faire a warning Praeuisa leuiùs feriunt mala He that is ful warned is halfe armed We shal make our selues readie for the push of their vehemencie so well as God shall giue vs grace thereto And thus with this foule blast and threatning sling they knit vp this their Learned Discourse of their third Tetrarke these Gouernors Presbyters Preestes or Elders that are all in ruling and not teaching And since they are not hetherto able to alleage better proofes for their Consistory of these Elders neyther yet Caluine Beza nor Danaeus as for other I account not of them more than these I hope wee shall neede to feare the lesse our Brethrens threates of any greater vehemencie to come that shall be materiall to the controuersy The argument of the 13 Booke THE 13. Booke is of the last tetrarke called the Deacons with a Preface exhorting to releeue the poore in what sort the Deacons office is perpetuall of the first occasion of ordeyning Deacons for the distribution of temporall goods of the occasion ceassing how that part of the office is changeable how the office had another part remayning to be imployed in the attendanâs on the ministerie of the Word and Sacraments of the examples heereof in the first seauen Deacons namely Stephen and Philip with the iudgements of Gualter Aretius and the Magdeburgenses heereupon how the part perteining to distribution of goodes was altered and ioyned with other functions and not any peculiar office in many well ordered Churches after the ordeyning of Deacons at Ierusalem of our Brethrens deuiding the office of Deacons in diuers partes and whether the distributers showers of mercie and helpers mentioned Rom. 12.1 Cor. 12. were seuerall and distinct offices with the interpretations of Ambrose Bullinger Beza Caluine and Aretius on the same of the good politike lawes for the poores reliefe and the cause that they take not so good effect of the multitude of disordinate walkers and practisers against the State and whether these deuises of Deacons would represse them or increase them of the election of Deacons and of tyrannie and confusion whether the Deacons trayning vp to the Ministerie be a prophaning of the office and making the Deacons to be idolles of the diuers names and offices of the auncient and holie Churches that Danaeus mentioneth for the attendance on the poore of the Collectors for the poore amongst vs of their qualities and difference from Deacons of the exception of Philips beeing an Euangelist and so a preacher of Deacons to be as woorshipfull men as conueniently may be gotten of the manner of ordeyning Deacons whether the Deacons consisteth onely in the ministration to the poore with the iudgements of Beza Caluine Aretius and Bullinger for the same and of the playner vnderstanding of Ambroses words about the diuers kinds of Deacons WE must therefore returne to the authoritie of the Pastor which he hath ioyned with the Elders of the Church whereof he is Pastor The Church hath alwayes had great care of prouision for the poore by which
this their Learned Discourse into the proper treatise of the Ciuill Christian Magistrate Which treatise before page 8.9 10. they put backe and woulde not speake of till they had fully made all this their Learned Discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment for their whole tetrarchie first of Doctors then of pastors after that of Gouernors meaning Seniors and lastlie of Deacons And nowe when they haue thus at large as they them-selues tell vs Learnedâe Discoursed on all these their foure tetrarches they begin a new treatise here of Synods but with the ciuill Christian Magistrate they yet deale not except in certaine odde gléekes Howbeit now there is good hope that they will remember them and begin a little to bestow some part of their Learned Discourse on that authoritie which they will leaue to them And a good beginning as they say maketh a good ending But do they begin with theÌ after this fashionâ well then in the name of God let vs yet go on with them in considering what here they now begin to graunt vnto them This authoritie therefore say they can-not bee graunted vnto any ciuill Christian Magistrate that without consent of the learned pastors and Elders yea against their consent of whome as in some respect hee is a feeling member hee may lawfully make ceremoniall constitutions whereby the Church may bee gouerned in meere Ecclesiasticall matters What is heere toward the setting foorth of the Ciuill Christian Magistrates authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters so much as it is this is rather against it then any thing for it We haue long expected what yet at last or at least after euerie of the Tetrarches had his seuerall and ioynt authoritie portioned out vnto him they woulde leaue in remaynder to the authoritie of the ciuill Christian Magistrate And they begin now to tel vs on the negatiue part what cannot bee granted to him not on the affirmatiue what can or shoulde be graunted And wherefore doe they begin with this negatiue When God declared the 10 commaundements of the two Tables Exod. 20. He deliuered both the first precept and the most of the rest negaliuely because as all the interpreters note wee are so faultie in the contrarie Doe our Br. begin their treatise of the Prince with this negatiue for any such cause doth the Ciuill Christian Magistrate whome God hath placed ouer vs which is principall ouer all the Churches of the realmes of England and Ireland is now God bee blessed for it and long may be our most gratious Soueraigne Queene Elizabeth taken vpon her without the consent of the Learned Pastors and Elders yea against their consent to make anie ceremoniall constitutions whereby the Church must be gouerned in meere Ecclesiasticall matters Let our Brethren take heede that they doe not in their Learned Discourse cast foorth before her subiectes and all the worlde any such slaunders on her Maiestie which they are neuer able to proue Can they shew but one such caeremoniall constitution And yet what the ciuill Christian Magistrate can doe and that not De facto but De iure can rightlie doe is another question Dare they stande to this that the Ciuill Christian Magistrate can make no ceremoniall constitution neither for time place nor forme of preaching nor praying nor administring the sacraments nor for order comelinesse nor edification without the consent of the Learned Pastors and Elders yea if they woulde not consent against their consent also If they shoulde be vrged with this questiââ I thinke it woulde say sore vnto our Learned Br. for all their Learning Did Moses make all his caeremoniâll Constitutions with their consent that were Pastorâ Elders And what consent can they shewe of the pastors and Elders for all the caeremoniall constitutions that Dauid made or Solomon after him indeede I thinke they did not dissent but that the making or efficacie of them relied vpon the confirmation of any their consent giuen thereto by their suffrages or voices howe can they prooue it And likewise since the comming of Christe howe will they proue that all the good imperiall Constitutions and sanctions of the auncient godly Emperours in Ecclesiasticall matters and about the state of the Church had the expresse consent of the Bishops and pastorall Elders in the very enacting and making of thâm but howsoeuer all they were made let them name if they can but one that hath beene made in her Maiesties time eyther against or without the consent of the Learned pastors and Elders of our Church I denie not but that they haue beene made both without and against the consent of some Pastors and Elders and those Learned too for wee graunt Learning to the aduersaries though their Learning bee blinded with erronious affection And they pleaded on the selfe same negatiue string against the Prince which our Br. here doe that this authoritie can not be granted to any ciuill Christian Magistrate without and against their consentes being then such as they were for fault of better the Pastors Elders of the church and that had the greatest stroke alââ as they tooke vpon them in these matters And yet for all their reclaiming to the contrarie the ciuill Christian magistrate God be praysed did it and did well too mauger all the dissents and against the consents of them all But our Brethren meane not heere the Popish Pastors and Elders but the protestants And can they prooue that her Maiestie made any caeremoniall Constitutions whereby the Church must bee gouerned in meere Ecclesiasticall matters without and against the consent of the protestant Pastors and Elders of the Church but yet all this will not reach home to serue their turne And why because by these pastors and Elders they cheefely meane indeede themselues whome in the first front of this their Learned Discourse they call the faythfull Ministers and here the Learned pastors and Elders For as for those Elders that are gouernours and yet not Teachers and preachers wee haue hearde how in their last words they haue handled them for hauing any authoritie in the Synode But where were these our Br. then when her Maiestie with the consent of the protestant pastors and Elders then liuing did make at her first comming to the supreme gouernâent of this our Church these caeremoniall Constitutions for perhaps the moste of them that are moste busy nowe were then but in the shell as they say or but yong batched And must all these Constitutions that these Pastors which are since come in the places of some of the Pastors then doe not nowe consent vnto bee all of them vnlawfull constitutions and must the verie Princes authoritie also be called nowe in question and so flat denied that it cannot bee graunted because it was without or against these Pastors and Elders consenting that nowe are and that then were not Pastors and Elders were those Constitutions no longer good than those Pastors liued that consented to the making of them And
Magistrates for we will not speake of Sergius Paulus Proconsull of Cyprus because he was but a Liefetenant of the Romane Emperour this authoritie was proper vnto the Synode If Donatistes Anabaptistes or Papistes had repeted this reason I would lesse haue marueiled For this argument is the common refuge of all these three most pernitious Heretikes and enemies to the authoritie of the ciuill Christian Magistrate When the Emperours made lawes against the Donatistes and they vsed this reason against the Emperours Saint Augustine aunswereth them thus Non inuenitur c. There is not founde an example in the Euangelicall and Apostolicall writinges that any thing was craued of the Kinges of the earth for the Church against the enemies of the Church who denieth that it is not founde But as yet that prophecie was not fulfilled And nowe ye kinges vnderstande and bee yee learned that iudge the earth serue the Lorde in feare For as yet that was fulfilled which is sayde a little before in the same psalme Wherefore did the Gentiles fret and the people imagine vaine thinges The Kinges of the earth and the Princes came together in one against the Lorde and against his Christe or his annointed Neuerthelesse if the factes forepassed in the propheticall bookes were figures of thinges to come in that King which is called Nabuchodonozor eyther of the times was figured both that which the Church had vnder the Apostles and that it nowe hath In the time therefore of the Apostles and martyrs that was fulfilled which was figured when the King whome wee haue mentioned did compell the Godly and the iust to worship Images and commaunded them that refused to bee casâ into the flambes But now is that fulfilled which a little after was figured in the same King when as hee beeing conuerted to honour the true God decreed in his kingdome that whosoeuer blasphemed the God of Sydrak Misak and Abednago shoulde suffer due punishmentes The former time therefore of that King did signify the former times of the infidell Kings which the Christians suffered for the wicked But the later time of that king did signify the times of the later Kinges that are nowe faythfull which the wicked suffer for the Christians Thus sayth S. Augustine against the Donatistes that vsed this argument against the Lawes and decrees of the Emperors that in the Apostles times there were no Christian Princes that Christ appointed not Princes but Preachers to meddle in matters of Religion and at this day the Papistes and Anabaptistes furbish ouer a fresh the same arguments and will our Brethren nowe gather vp once again the off-scourings of these their rotten reasons to furnish their Learned Discourse of their Pastors and Elders in their assemblies and Synodes against the lawfull authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters of the ciuil Christian Magistrate But wee haue scene this reason before sufficiently confuted by Gellius Snecanus a principall fauorite of our Brethren to whose further confutations I remit them Who confuteth also this exception of Paulus Sergius which namely heere our Brethren put backe and will not admitte But their reason is ouer weake Because hee was but a liefetenant of the Romayne Emperour For if he were the Emperors Lifetenant he represented to them where he was liefetenant the cheef authoritie of the Emperour himselfe euen as much as Pilato Festus or Felix did in Iurie And if the people did obey him before hee was a Christian did his Christianitie among those people that were conuerâed likewise ouer whome he still gouerned diminish his authoritie but what meane they heereby doe they reiect all argumentes for proofe of the authoritie of the ciuill Christian Magistrate if they bee not as meere Monarkes as was the Emperor what an aduantage were this giuen to the Anabaptists and what a number of Snecanus examples were hereby defeated And yet doth not this argument holde that because this authoritie was proper to the Synode before there were any Christian Magistrates and âo the Synode then decreed all such caeremonial constitutions without yea agaynst the consent of the ciuill magistrate because as they say there were not then any Christian Magistrates that yet it so remayneth still proper to the Synode to decree all such caeremonial constitutions without yea against the Ciuill Magistrate being now become a Christian Magistrate But they can-not doe so nowe the state of the Prince being the principall partie ouer them and agreeing in faith with them as they could do them or rather could do them otherwise So that all the case is cleane altered by this so great an alteration And nowe if they will not haue the ciuill Christian Magistrate to decree any such caeremonial constitutions without and against the Pastors consent is it meete the Pastors shoulde on the other side decree any such constitutions without and against the consent of the ciuil Christian Magistrate what an arrogancie were this in them and what an iniurie offered to the ciuil Christian Magistrate But as they can shewe no such Caeremoniall Constitution in force among vs made by our gracious souereigne against or without the consent of sufficient store of our Learned Bishops and Pastors so they can shewe none made by our Learned Bishops and Pastors whereby the Church of England must bee gouerned without the consent of our moste Christian soueraigne and cheefe Magistrate No God forbid that euer we should contend with so godly a Prince And would God our Brethren would not so farre presume herein hauing such a blessed Prince of her Maiestie as they and wee haue to contend thus to get vnto them selues the only or cheefe authoritie to call Synodes to decree caeremoniall constitutions to prescribe lawes to frame modilles and to lay plot-fourmes of Ecclesiasticall regiment and Christian Discipline to set foorth newe bookes of Common Prayer of the diuine seruice and administring Sacraments of ordeining Ministers of making new maners of marying of Excommunicating the offenders by new gouernors of burying the dead without all accustomed orders of altering parishes of deposing B. of making al Past. to be equall of bringing in new officers of disposing al the Clergies liuings yea of limitting the authority of the ciuil Christian magistrate and commending al these things vnto the subiects in the title of Learned Discourses and faithfull ministers and to do all this and many thinges mo besides those that yet wee see not so plainly opened both without and against the consent and authoritie of their moste dread and Christian Soueraigne yea verilie to her greate greefe and no small daunger both of her royall estate and person But as though all were cleare and safe our Brethren still go on against the ciuil Christian Magistrates authoritie saying Which authoritie we knowe to bee graunted to the Church by our Sauiour Christe practized by his Apostles continued by their successors three hundred yeres before there was any Chrisâian Emperors
word this absolute authoritie wherewith by their leaue both vnciuilly and neyther so christianlike nor subiectlike as should beséeme them they burthen the ciuill christian Magistrate which is God be praysed ouer vs her most excellent Maiestie we shall then neuer reclayme them from their opinion nor let them to hold still what they please For we professe before hand at least I for my part that I can shew none nor I knowe of any such absolute authoritie that either we yéeld to the Prince or that the Prince claymeth in âhis our Church but set absolute aside and then that the ciuill christian Magistrate hath had and ought to haue some authoritie and that in the boundes thereof a supreme authoritie also we haue shewed by sufficient warrant of Gods holy word and euen héere not onely by the auncient Father Augustine but also euen by Bezaes owne approbation and pâoues therof where he minceth it most neyther can they nor all the woâld elude this that we haue shewed thereon and this is it that we hold aâso of the Princes authority concerning the calling and gouerning of the Synodes what we holde further we shall come to it orderly afterwards but héere they tell vs what they hold We hold say they that the Synode of euery Prouince hath authoritie to decree concerning ceremoniall orders of the Church Before of absolute authoritie they sayd they would be glad to learne how this authoritie was translated from the Church in which it was once lawfully vested vnto the ciuill christian Magisârate These were too high words nor they can euer be able to shew it by sufficient warrant out of Gods holy word that the true Church of Christ was euer vested with absolute authoritie but alwayes reserued that vesture to her Lord and husband Iesus Christ. The Pope indéede and his Popish Church he like a proude Prelate and she like a malapert Maâame striued which of them should reuest themselues with absolute authoritie a more royall robe then became them or any creature to be vested with The Queene sayth Dauid Psal. 45.10 did stand on thy right hand in a vesture of the golde of Ophir But least she should thinke her selfe vested with absolute authoritie he saith vnto her Hearken O daughter and consider and bow downe thine âare forget also thine owne people and thy fathers house so shall the King haue pleasure in thy beautie for he is thy Lord and reuerence thou him so that she is still vested with obedience and though with authoritie not with absolute But it seemeth that our Brethren aâ better aâuised will now let go their former hold that they sayd the Church did hold for the vesting her with this vesture For héere they leaue out the word absolute and say onely that the Church hath authoritie which is a great deale more truly and warily spoken than before And yet héerein also me thinkâ in another point they greatly ouer shoote themselues for where they say that the Synode of euery Prouince hath authoritie to decree concerning ceremoniall orders of the Church leauing out quite and cleane the Prince whome they include not in the name of Synode but making the Prince another partie besides the Synode moue the question what is due to the Prince what to the Synode This is very much if I might not rather say this is very little or nought at all to make now the Christian Magistrate to haue no authoritie at all but be cleane excluded And that is more if the Christian Magistrate haue diuers Prouinces in his Dominions the Synode of euerie Prouince hath authoritie to decree concerning ceremoniall orders of the Church he or his authoritie neyther in all nor in any of those his Prouinces being once so much as mentioned But what they meane by these spéeches following whereof some may be generall to all congregations some perticuler to certaine Churches let themselues a Gods name make their meaning playner for as yet I perceyue not such is my bulnesse how all congregations are bound to obserue the Decrees concerning ceremoniall orders of the Church that are decreed in the Synode of euery Prouince or that euery Prouince consisting but of certayne perticular Churches hath authoritie to make Decrees whereof some may be generall to all congregations What they intend héerein I can scarse ghesse except they would haue all Churches and congregations be bound to receyue the Decrees of the Synodes holden in Geneua or in some other Prouince that they like better and say they were of the number of those Decrees which they made to be generall to all congregations But as our Synodes prouinciall cannot make any such ceremoniall order to binde them or to binde generally the congregations or Churches of any other Princes Prouinces so haue they no more authoritie to make ceremoniall orders to binde our congregations and Churches thereunto For as it were to be wished that all places might be brought to one perfection so is it not alwayes necessarie that they bee lyke in all things This wish for perfection of vnitie in all places if the matter might go by wishing is to be liked so farre-foorth as perfection may be wished though hardly hoped for in the imperfection of this life in the Church militant and in the great varietie of ceremoniall orders in the sundry parts and Prouinces of the same howbeit in doctrine especially in the grounds and principles thereof it is to be wished for euen as necessary and although it be not alwayes necessary that all places be like in all things meaning ceremoniall orders and constitutions whereof before they spake yet for all places that be of one countrey state realme dominion or prouince it is farre better that all places were alike For although varietie in those things may stand with the vnitie of the faith and with the substance of our communitie in the corporation of the mysticall bodie of Christ which is his true and holy Catholike Church the communion of the Saincts yet if they be knit together in one order of these ceremoniall things also where they liue together vnder one Christian Magistrate it doth more confirme them in the other substantiall vnitie And the varietie is daungerous in one Church or kingdome euen in these more frée and inferior matters as with gréefe we sée in England at this day what destructions and contentions haue risen and dayly do rise in our Churches that otherwise in doctrine are vnited and yet the varietie of these ceremoniall orders hath with some called in suspition the vnitie of religion and with many hath disturbed if not broken the vnitie of our christian peace and concord And therefore excellently well are these two knitte together Cor vnum via vna one hart one way Zanchius noting the difference of these vnities in his Confession of Christian Religion Cap. 24. de Eccl. militante aphoris 14. 15. writeth thus For with what things
diuers peoples are gathered together into one bodie with the same things also we beleeue that they are conserued being vnited and do more and more growe together Sith therefore the gathering together of the Church is not made nor conserued properly by ceremonies but by the holy Ghost but by the word but by faith but by charitie but by obseruance of the commaundements of God we doubt not but that also by the same things the vnitie thereof is to be reteyned and cherished When as the Apostle also to the Ephesians where he treateth of the vnitie of the Church teacheth that it consisteth in these things no mention being made of ceremonies In the meane season we denie not but that vnitie euen in ceremonies themselues and in the rites of euerie Church so farre-foorth as by conscience it may be done is to be reteyned and to be reuerenced For there are two kyndes of thyngs wherein the vnitie of the Church may bee the things that are deliuered in the word of God and the things that are not expressed in the word such as are many externall rytes and ceremonies Ecclesiasticall In those things deliuered in the word we beleeue that vnitie euery where and alwayes is very necessary but in these things although by it selfe it be not necessarie but that according to the diuersitie of places and according to the diuers coÌsideration of the time it is profitable to haue diuers rites notwithstanding where any thing concerning these matters is ordeyned and receyued for the edification of the Church there we thinke that vnitie also in such kinde of rites is of euerie bodie to be reteyned and the orders Ecclesiasticall are not to be disturbed According to the Apostles rule all things in the Church ought to be done in order decently and to edification of which matters we do very greatly allow and embrace the two Epistles of Augustine written to Ianuarius The wisedome of the Synode therefore ought to haue such regard of all Churches that they haue speciall respect to euery one Héere is all of the wisedome of the Synode but nothing of the authoritie of the Magistrate of the Synodes such regarde of all Churches and speciall respect to euery one that to the Christian Magistrate there is héere neyther any regard nor respect had or mentioned eyther generall or speciall is this the wisedome and equall dealing of our Brethren betwéene the Magistrate and the Synode for this authoritie Howbeit this also is not true that for the speciall respect to euery one the Decree of the Synode in one Prouince may not runne in generall alike to all the Churches in that one Prouince For if euery one Church in one Prouince may varie from another the same may be sayd by as good reason of euery person in euery one Church Also that the Synode should haue a speciall respect of euery one of them and so in deede our Brethrens words may be vnderstood saying not to euery one Church but to euery one so that euery one differing from another it were best to make no Decree at all but let euery man do as he best liked hand ouer head without any order of vniformitie in ceremonies at all and so to make short and to be partiall to neyther partie to cut off all authoritie quite and cleane both from Magistrate and Synode in these matters and let all be fans caeremonies as the French saith Wherein we of long time in England haue beene caried away with an vntrue principle that vniformitie must be in all places and things alike as though we would feede olde men and sucking infants all with one kinde of meates or as though we would cloath all ages in a robe of one assize and that which is more absurd compell men of ripe age to sucke the dugge to weare their biggins and to carrie rattles and other childish bables If our Brethren by this long time in England meane the time since we haue God be praysed for it receyued the light and libertie of the Gospell then is not this true that heere they say we haue beene caried away with an vntrue principle that vniformitie must be in all places and things alike for we prescribe not to all places nor preiudicate any other Churches that are not in nor off the state of the Churches in England and Ireland neyther yet all of them but that in some things also according to their customes and priuiledges they may differ concerning these ceremoniall constitutions from the generall vniformitie of our Churches But were it lawfull for euerie particular Church in England to alter the ceremonies decreed in our nationall Synodes according to their pleasure or opinion to what purpose neede any Synode at all to be troubled about these or what authoritie at all hath a Synode to make any ceremoniall constitutions if the particular Churches of that nation be not bound vniformally to kéepe them They say that the vniformitie of these things is as though we would feede old men and sucking infants all with one kind of meate Although this similitude âitteth not their purpose sith it is against or aboue nature for sucking infants to feede on all such kinde of meate as old men can do neyther are these ceremoniall constitutions fet foorth for the soules of the weake and simple people to feede vpon in stead of Gods word or that they should receyue them as any part or substance of their soules nourishment and substance as the meate is that the infants feede vpon yet notwithstanding in the very point indéede wherein our Brethren should applie it if they will applie it at all any thing aptly to the purpose it makes cleane against them For although sucking infants can not feede on all kinde of meate that old men can yet old men can feede well ynough on all such kind of meate as sucking infants can for all they can feede on other stronger meates besides And therefore if our Brethren will needes compare these Ceremonies vnto the meate of the weake although they be ordeyned to farre other vses both for the weake and for the strong also yet why may not the strong feede on them in their kindes so well as the weake may for all they can disgest stronger meate for though the old men feede thereon in another manner and not in sucking the dugge as sucking infants do yet for the meate it selfe which is the milke they may be fedde both of them wellynough with one kinde of meate and many a good old man and yong too will not thinke himselfe ill dealt withall to haue euery morning for his breakfast as good a messe of milke as euen a sucking infant also for the proportion of his strength may feede vpon Sainct Paule writâng to the Corinthians sayth 1. Cor. â ver 1. I could not speake vnto you Brethren as vnto spirituall men but as vnto carnall euen as vnto babes
helpe bare headed and there is place where she hath no lesse oportunitie to speake than in an other place to hold her peace And also there is nothing that letteth him to pray which standeth who being let by disease is not able to boowe his knees To conclude it is better in good time to burie the dead than where there wanteth a winding sheete or where there are not some to carrie foorth the corpse to tarrie till it putrifie aboue ground Howbeit there is neuerthelesse in these things that to be done or to be taken heed of that the custome of the region the ordinances yea finally humanitie it selfe and the rule of modestie shall suggest wherein if by vnskilfulnesse or forgetfulnesse any thing be done amisse no crime is committed but if it be done of contempt it is a contumacie or prowde stubbornesse not to be allowed In lyke manner the dayes themselues what they should be and the houres what manner building of the places which Psalmes what day should be soong it maketh no matter And yet it is meete that there be certayne dayes and houres standing and a fitte place to receiue them all if there be any consideration had of peace keeping For of how many brawles would the confusion of those things be the seed if that according as euery bodie liked it were lawfull to change those things that perteyned to the common state sith that it will neuer come to passe that one thing would neuer please them all if matters as though they were layd foorth in the middest among them were left at euerie ones choyse but if any bodie grumble hereat and would heere be more wise than he ought to be let him see to it with what reason he may approue vnto the Lord his way wardnesse Neuerthelesse this saying of Paule ought to satisfy vs that we haue not a custome of contending nor the Churches of God Thus modestlie and with great grauitie writeth Caluine of these Ecclesiasticall Ceremonies and constitutions wherein although it were but of a linnân kerchiefe on a womans head yet for publike order sake he would not haue it contemned though vpon occasion or necessitie it were omitted so farre off was Caluine from this contemptuous likening of these smallest Ceremonies in the Church to the sucking of the dugge to the wearing of biggins and to the carrying of rattles and other childish bables or to the scoffing at the vniformitie of them as though we would feede old men and sucking infants all with one kinde of meate or as though we would cloath all ages in a roabe of one assize for notwithstanding as Caluine sayth they be but outward rudiments to help and strengthen our humane infirmitie whereof some being of riper age in Christ than other we all of vs haue no need of them yet saith Caluine we all of vs do vse them why so but that both bycause saith he we are mutually bound to cherish charity amongst vs one to another and bycause it is not lawfull for euery body to change those things that apperteyne to the common state but that they must be onely changed or taken away by the same authoritie that did make them and as they are not lawfull to euery person no more are they lawfull to euery particular Church to change them bycause they reach higher euen to the common state of the whole region And besides if it should be suffered that euery priuate person and by the same reason euery priuate congregation might change the Churches publike constitutions since that tot capita tot sensus no one constitution would euer please all persons this would become the verie seede as Caluine calleth it of all brawles and confusion and in the end the cleane ouerthrowe of the Church These principles of Caluine being well weighed let now the indifferent reader iudge how truly our Brethren say of these ceremoniall constitutions wherein we of long time in England haue beene caried away with an vntrue principle that vniformitie must be in all places and things alike If this be an vntrue principle in these matters then hath Caluine himselfe helped to carry vs away But I am afrayd our Brethren for all their learning are alittle too much carried away with affection that maketh them both in this matter and in many other mistake vntrue for true and true for vntrue principles But let vs now sée our Brethrens reason that they alleage against vniformitie in these ceremoniall constitutions Our land is not yet wholy conuerted to Christ so great hath beene our negligence hitherto therefore there can not be such an vniformitie of orders in all places as shall be profitable for all This argument although we haue séene it alreadie sufficiently confuted by Caluine let vs yet consider it somewhat further in the example euen of these constitutions made by the Apostles and Elders Actes 15. so often alleaged by our Brethren for if this argument be good then could not they haue made as they did those Ceremoniall constitutions and commanded the charge of kéeping them for any time generally and with like vniformitie of all the Churches to whome they wrote their letter and decrée saying verse 23.28 and 29. the Apostles the Elders and the Brethren vnto the Brethren that are of the Gentiles in Antiochia and in Syria and in Cilicia c. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to vs to lay no more burthen vpon you than these necessary things that is that ye absteyne from things offered to idoles and bloud and that which is strangled and from fornication from which if ye keepe your selues ye shall do well c. Were none of all those Christians in the Churches to whom they wrote these decrées wholy conuerted to Christ or were all the christians in all those churches wholy conuerted or conuerted all alike and yet the decrée was generally to be vniformely kept of all those churches Yea what shall we say to the Church of Ierusalem it selfe where this decrée was made were they all wholy conuerted to Christ no hypocrites nor yet weake brethren among them did not euen the Elders of Ierusalem themselues bewray the great weakenesse of their multitude when as afterwards Actes 21. S. Paule came to Ierusalem did they not say to Paule vers 20. thou seest Brother how many thousand Iewes there be which beleeue and they all are earnest followers of the lawe c. and for these weake brethrens sakes they counceled S. Paule to purifie himselfe being a Iewe according to the ceremonies of the Iewes and although they knew the christian libertie yet would they haue S. Paule to auoyde the offensiue opinion that the multitude of the christian Iewes had conceyued of him to conforme himselfe vnto theyr weakenesse And what shall we say to the other Churches of the Gentiles were all the Christians in the Church of Corinthus wholy conuerted to Christ and yet notwithstanding S. Paule ceasseth
not to prescribe vnto them all alike some ceremoniall constitutions neyther was the difference of their strengths or weakenesse in their conuersion to Christ any breach or let to the vniformitie of their obseruing the same But by this reason of our brethren there could be no vniformitie of ceremonies not only then with them or now with vs in all places of the Church and land of England but in no place in all the whole world for where is the whole land or church wholy conuerted to Christ if they say that by these words not wholy conuerted they meane not all nor the greatest part but that some be not conuerted to Christ then they confute their owne reason in that the weakenesse of the lesser part ought to be no preiudice to the making of vniforme ceremonies vnto the greatest part for the law considereth rather the vniuersall multitude than euery particular party and so confessing that our land God be praysed for it is for the greatest part conuerted though not wholy conuerted in respect of euery person yet as the greatest part is commonly called by the name of the whole it may be well said also to be wholy conuerted But what meane they hereby that our land is not yet wholy coÌuerted to Christ they haue coÌfessed in their preface vnto this learned discourse that for the substaÌce of religion it is now publikely mainteined for our true holy faith If any be not yet coÌuerted vnto the whole truth thereof how doth not this argumeÌt make the more for vniformity in these ceremoniall constit were it the easlier to win theÌ if by any meanes they may be woon by kéeping an vnforme order in those ceremoniall constitutions that are neyther ill of themselues and are but ordeyned to these good ends that order and comelinesse be reteyned shall we rather winne and conuert them to Christ both by reiecting all vniformitie in those ceremoniall constitutions that both they and we agrée vpon to be good and lawfull and also by reiecting all vniformitie in any other that may be deuised Yea by this their rule we should kéepe no vniformitie in any of those ceremoniall constitutions that they their selues set foorth vnto vs or is it lawfull for them to presse their Ceremonies vpon vs to be obserued with vniformitie and is it not more lawfull for vs hauing the law with vs to do the like to them so long as we vrge none nor otherwise than seruing to order and to comelinesse if ours séeme not so to them no more do theirs séeme so to vs and we hope and thanke God that we are also euen the greatest part and therefore may be called the whole that are we trust wholy conuerted to Christ wholie I meane for substance of Religion though in measure of faith and conuersation of life there is none of vs all nor yet of our Brethren so wholy conuerted but that the best of vs all come short and oftentimes diuert from Christ and must still be fayne to cry to Christ Conuerte me domine conuertar Conuert me Lord and I shall be wholy conuerted But will vniformitie in those Ceremonies that are giuen to helpe and strengthen our weakenesse hinder our Conuersion vnto Christ yea rather how will they not greatly further it But now if we be not so wholy conuerted to Christ as we ought to be although I confesse negligence may be some part too great a part the cause thereof yet I feare me our Brethrens too double diligence in disturbing the concord of the Preachers and euen in this reiecting of vniformity in these ceremoniall constitutions giuing liberty not only to euery Synode of themselues but also to theÌselues in these their discourses without any Synode and without yea against the authority of the ciuill christian Magistrate and much more without yea against the whole state of the Church in this our laÌd yea giuing liberty to euery particular church and withall by these their reasons to euery priuate person according as he or she is weake or strong to admit or reiect all vniformitie to alter and innouate as they fancy all such Lawes and constitutions of ceremoniall rites orders as are by a lawfull godly Synode of the Church decréed by the authority of the ciuill christian magistrate confirmed established proclaimed to be vniuersally among vs vniformely obserued These sayings doings of our Brethren their selues haue bin if not the chiefest yet not the least cause that not onely our land is not so wholy conuerted to Christ as it might otherwise haue béene but that so many are wholy auerted froÌ Christ and become peruerted renegates apostataes vnto Antichrist that before these sturres betwéen our brethren vs began were very wel coÌming on by little little so far as man can iudge or hope by outwarde signes might haue béene throughly wonne and wholly conuerted to Christ or might yet in the vnsearchable riches of gods mercies be reclaimed and reconuerted But firmum flat fundamentum Deus nouit qui sunt sui If they be none of Gods elected exiârunt e nobis non fuerunt ex nobis they went from among vs they were none of vs. But nowe to our Brethrens conclusion that they gather on these premisses Therfore it were meete that the Ouerseers and Elders of the Church shoulde come together to consider of this matter what orders were most meete for diuerse places to bring them to the obedience of Christ what for the furtherance of them that are newly come and what for the continuance and encrease of them that are verie well come on Here still the soueraigne Prince or ciuill Christian Magistrate is eyther cleane forgotten or of purpose reiected as hauing no stroake at all in these matters except they wil include the Prince in one of these termes the Ouerseers and Elders of the Church But they haue before restrayned those titles to the Pastors and to those Elders whoÌ they call the Gouernors and distinguishing the Prince from them they call him the ciuill Christian Magistrate But now what orders when they come together to consider of this matter can these Ouer-seers and Elders deuise that shal be most meete for diuerse places if they coÌsider not on this withall that if not in al places yet at the least in all those diuerse places they should be vniformely kept For to kéepe diuersitie or to kéepe them diuersely in those diuerse places what is it else than to be bounde in no places to no orders at all Will they not yet at least wise haue those orders that shal be deuised for the furderance of them that are newly come to be vniformely kept among all them that be such persons in all or diuerse places And likewise those orders that should be deuised for the continuance and encrease of them that are verie well come on to be kept also
Who sayth hereon Lib. 4. Instit. cap. 10. sect 29. in these wordes Of the former kind that is to say of those ceremoniall constitutions that are for comelines Paule hath examples as that no prophane banquetes be mixed together with the holy supper of the Lord. That women except they couer their heads come not forth into a publike place and many other thinges are had in ãâã vse That wee pray kneeling and bare headed that wee administer the Sacramentes of the Lorde not vncleanely but with some dignitie that in burying the dead wee giue thereto a certaine honestie and such other thinges as pertayne thereto In the other kinde that is to say for order there are houres designed to the publike prayers to the sermons and to the mysticall actions In the sermons themselues there is quiet and silence and places appoynted thereunto the tunes or singing together of the hymnes and daies prefixed for celebrating of the L. supper that which Paule forbiddeth that women teach not in the Church and if there be any such like thinges But chiefely those that conserue discipline as the Catechizing the Eccl. Censures excommunication fastes the thinges that may be referred to that cataloge Thus may we referre all the Eccl. constitutions which we receaue for good and wholesome vnto two heads for the one sort of them haue respect to rites and ceremonies the other to discipline and peace Howebeit because here is daunger least of the one parte the false Bishops shoulde snatch a pretence hereupon to excuse their wicked and tyrannicall lawes he speaketh of those Popish Bishops whome he before described and on the other part least there should be anie too much fearefull which being warned by the former euils would leaue no place at all to lawes bee they neuer so holy it is a thing woorth the labour here to testifie that to conclude I doe allowe those humane constitutions which are founded on the authoritie of God and which are taken out of the scripture and so are wholly diuine Let the example be in the kneeling which is made while the solemne praiers are had The question is whether it be an humane tradition that is lawefull for euerie one to refuse or neglect I saye it is suche an humane tradition as that with all it is a diuine tradition It is of God in respect it is a part of that comelinesse the care and conseruation whereof is commended vnto vs by the Apostle But it is of man in respect that it designeth out in specialtie that which generally was ordeined rather than expounded By this one example wee may esteeme what wee ought to thinke of this whole kinde to witte because the Lorde hath faythfully comprehended with his holie eyes and clearely declared both the whole summe of true righteousnesse and all the partes of the worship of his godhead and whatsoeuer was necessarie to saluation in these he onely is our Master that must be heard but because in externall Discipline and Ceremonies he would not particularly prescribe what we should followe neither iudged he one forme to be conuenient for all ages of the worlde we must here flee vnto the generall rules that he gaue that what thinges so euer the necessitie of the Churche shal require to be commaunded for order and comelinesse may be driuen to them Thus among other these ceremoniall constitutions writeth Caluine of kneeling at the times of solemne prayers which are then most requisite while wee are participating the heauenly mysteries of the Lordes supper And therefore kneeling though it be not necessarie with any simple necessitie in it selfe yet as it is a reuerent and diuine ceremonie it is necessarie as conuenient at the times of solemne prayer and thankesgiuing and of consequence at the communion both for order and comelinesse of the bodies gesture and for testification and edification also of the mindes deuotion But least a surplusse here should be left out that a surplusse say they in common prayer is more necessarie than a deuoute minde I do not thinke that any man is or euer was of that opinion For were he neuer so blinde a Papist yet till he chiefely stoode on his blinde deuotion And I appeale euen to our Brethrens consciences whether they thinke indéede as I beleeue they doe not that any man is of that minde But what shall the reader and and all the people thinke of this that the surplusse being here one of the ceremonies brought in for instance to admitte varietie as times persons and occasions serue to bee diuerse and so of consequence may well be vsed yea and by the correlation of this rule should be vsed ordinarily though it admitte sometimes such occasion of leauing it off And this also is become one of the desires in this Learned Discourse of all the faithfull ministers that seeke the reformation of the Church of Englande that the surplusse may be accounted but as a ceremonie that admitteth such varietie And yet we sée there are many amongst them so deuoted against a surplusse that rather than they will weare it at any time they will forsake all the ministerie and make great sturre and trouble about it notwithstanding the iudgement of all the reuerende and learned men that haue testified as euen heere their selues also are faine to doe the indifference of it and of the vse thereof But our Brethren not thinking of this contradiction betwéene their owne writing and their doing but thinking if at least wise they so thinke indeed that there be but what number they tell not that thinke these ceremonies are more necessarie than they be let vs nowe see what reason moueth our Brethren to thinke that there be such as do thinke so And great occasion say they offered to the ignorant so to thinke when they see them that preach most diligently praye most feruently and minister the Sacraments most reuerently according to Christes institution to bee displaced of all ministerie for a crosse or a font or a surplusse or some such other trifle Euery thing here that misliketh our Brethr. is but a trifle with them And thus they pretende vnto the world that they be displaced but for trifles But what soeuer these are is all the communion booke and publike prescribed forme of diuine seruice but a trifle too And is the ciuill Christian Magistrates authoritie and so the Queenes Maiesties supreme gouernement in all Ecclesiasticall causes so well as temporall and of consequence in all these and other causes in controuersie betweene vs but a trifle with our Brethren too and is all the superior authoritie of the Bishops all the controuersies about Discipline and the Ecclesiasticall Regiment of their tetrarchie for Doctors Pastors Gouernors and Deacons offices which they contende for and all the other particular matters in question both in this Learned Discourse and in all their other treatises which they still set foorth nothing but trifles For these
First that the Bishops do more than the Apostles durst do without the Churches election The second absurditie and presumption in giuing an office without a charge of a flocke Of the difference of giuing orders and offices Of the differeÌce of a Constable and Church warden from the orders and office of a Minister Of the offices made in respect of a place that yet cease not their interest with the dispossession of the place VVhether the Ministerie dependeth on this or that place How our Br. were made Ministers if they be faithfull Ministers How the name and office of Minister and Pastor is not so altogether of act and esse that it admitteth not also a potentiall habilitie Of the difference of making Ministers without a flocke and liuing assigned to theÌ and of making Bishops without a Bishopricke The third absurditie and presumption of vagabound and wandring Ministers VVhether a Minister ceaseth to be a Minister being out of his charge VVhether the charge of the functioÌ or of the place be of the esseÌce of the Ministerie VVhether our Ministerie smelleth of the Popish indelible charectar VVhether the Minister is to be ordeyned a new after suspensioÌ or excoÌmunicatioÌ The fourth absurditie presumptioÌ of making vnfit Ministers of the offence hereof and of our Br. coÌparing theÌ to Ieroboams Priestes Of the complaint hereon and the imagined excuse by necessitie Of the exercises of the Ministerie and inforcing the Ministers to studie The Accusation of other crimes ensuing for greater and lesser liuings VVhether the Popish Priesthood be allowed Of the Statute for reading the Articles and of the officers bribings Of old Sir Iohn lack latin ryding about to his Benefices to reade the Articles Of the godly meaning of the Statute and whether the Statute be not directly agaynst our Br. or no. Of the mayntenance of the two Pastors in euery Congregation besides the Doctors the Confistory of the gouernours and the Deacons in the same and of the newe transposing of all the Parishes for their prouision Of the abuses as many as any now there are creeping in when they haue all that they please Of the corruptions in the particular Synodes and visitations by Chauncelors Officials Registers Apparitors Of our generall Conuocations and their complayning of Chauncelors Lawyers in them Of the Bishops seuerall place in the Conuocation of their authoritie of prohibiting to speake in the ConuocatioÌ Of subscribing to the Articles confirmed in the Parliament Anno 1562. with the accusatâon of the Articles for grosse and palpable errors and the examination of them The accusation of the Bishops to exercise Lordship ouer the faith and to ouerrule all the Synode and how this accusation reboundeth on these newe Pastorall Bishops in their Synodes THE Synod hath further aucthority concerning discipline to reforme and redresse by Eccl. censure all such defaultes and controuersies as cannot be determined in the particular Churches As for example if the Pastor himselfe haue neede to be seuerally punished where there is but one Pastor in a church or if Elders which should be reformers of others haue notoriously misgouerned themselues or if they haue bin ledde by affection to condemne an innocent or to iustifie the vngodly in these and such like cases all contention is to be concluded by the aucthority of the Synode SO farre as is warranted by euident Scripture or is not preiudiciall to her Maiesties supreme aucthority nor to any the good orders established in the Churches Realmes of Englande and Ireland and with the lyke exception of the right interest due to euery onâ in other states and countries I graunt this further aucthority of the Synode to reforme and redressâ by the Eccle. censure all such faultes and controuersies as cannot bee determined in particular Churches As for the examples that here for instancies they bring in runne all vpon their former presupposalls of these pretensed Pastors and Elders Neuerthelesse by the way we may hereby perceaue that if we should set vp such presupposed Pastors and Elders as our brethren would haue we shoulde so litle be free eyther from defaultes of life or from controuersies in these or such like matters that still there would be as much adoe not onely to punish and reforme the people but euen the Pastors themselues and that seuerely and perhaps more a do also when the aucthority of the Prince Prelates and the lawes established were dissolued and dispersed to seuerall congregations or Synods than now there is Yea but saye they this might bée where there is but one Pastor in a Churche And what if there be moe Pastors in a Church than one for so woulde they haue it that there should be moe may there not fall out as greate and moe controuersies too among them twaine than where there is but one and should not the Synode punish them bothe if they were both faultie and indeede they haue shewed the examples hereof already in some places where of late the congregations haue had two of these Pastors as the saying is vnum arbustum non alit duos erythacos such contentions and part-takings haue bin betweene them that the whole congregation hath bin thereby deuided and dissolued Example that congregation which because they could not at hoame haue this Tetrarchie of Doctors Pastors Gouernors aâd Deacons in such manner as is here prescribed went ouer not long since into the low Countries there to enioy theÌ But how long agreed these their two Pastors and their other Gouernours did they not euen there also and that in short while breake foorth into such sharpe contentions that they were soone deuided into two congregations of one and at length the most part of them came home as wise or perhaps wiser than they went out being taught by experience which they saye pag. 48. is the mistresse of fooles to to repente themselues at leasure for their to quicke following of these newe deuises But may these Elders also which they say should bee reformers of others so notoriously misgouerne themselues that not only they may be lead by affection but so far lead therby as to condemne an innocent or to iustifie the vngodly it appeareth by this they may and it is not vnlikely but that as here they put the case therof before it begins so were it once begun we should fele to late the lamentable experience by the notorious misgouernments of those gouernours But say they not for remedie to preuent it for that were the best to cut it off according to the olde saying obsta principiis sâro medicina paratur but for redresse when it is done as when the pate is broken to lay a plaister In these and such like cases all contention is to be concluded by the aucthority of the Synode Here is still no aucthoritie but all of the Synode And can nothing els or must none else haue aucthority to remedy these matters but a
Synode must a Synode which is an assembly out of many perticuler Churches be alwayes called together so often as any contention or default happeneth among Pastors or among the Elders in anie one church or coÌgregation If it be such a default or controuersie say they as cannot be determined in the particuler churches Loe heere may our bretheren see and learne what it is to take away the Bishops Iurisdiction in a Diocese and in a Prouince the Archbishops and the Princes Superiour aucthoritie also in a Realme or Kingdome for let their Iurisdictions and aucthorities stande these controuersies and defaultes might be punished decided and reformed well inough and neuer tâouble so many Churches by calling so often their Pastors from them by gathering and continuing Synodes for these matters and so perhaps breede moe and newe contentions But saye they some example wee haue thereof Actes 15. where those contentious Scismatikes that withstoode Paule and Barnabas at Antiochia were constrayned to yeelde by aucthority of the Counsell and Paule and Barnabas restored to their credite Wee doe not denie the aucthoritie of a Councell nor of that holye assemblie and if they will so call it a Councell or Synode whereby Paule and Barnabas were restored to their credite and the contentious Scismatikes constrayned to yeelde And woulde God our ârethren woulde consider more aduisedly the force of this Example least in their not yeilding to the aucthoritye and decrees of the lawfull Synodes and Councells holden in this Realme and Churche of Englande about these matters whiche they impugne they shewe themselues to be more factious than were those contentious Scismatikes But nowe if wee shall more neerely leuell these Synodes and Councels that our brethren would haue for the determining of these controuersies concluding all contentions and for the punishing of all suche notorious defaults and misgouernements to be called together into an assembly of the Bishops or Pastors of diuers particuler Churches comparing the same with this assembly Act. 15. of the Apostles and Elders at Ierusalem wee shall not finde that besides the parties sent from Antiochia where the controuersie arose there was any assemblie at all either from diuers or froÌ any other particuler Churches but onely the assemblie of the Apostles and Elders of Ierusalem Wherein the text is cléere vers 1. c. Then came there downe from Iudea certeyne men taught the bretheren saying except ye bee circumcised after the maner of Moses ye can not be saued And when there was great dissentioÌ and disputation by Paule and Barnabas against them they ordeyned that Paule and Barnabas and certeyne other of them should goe vp to Ierusalem vnto the Apostles and Elders about this question that is sayth Beza Iudices illis ferebant Apostolos Seniores Hierosolymitanos they appoynted the Apostles and Elders of Ierusalem to be their Iudges Thus sayth Luke being sent foorth by the Church they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria declaring the conuersion of the Gentiles and they brought great ioye vnto all the bretheren But here Luke telleth not that they brought any of the Elders of the churches either of Phoenicia or Samaria or of any other Churches els with them to Ierusalem And when sayth Luke they were come to Ierusalem they were receiued of the Church and of the Apostles and Elders and they declared what things God had done by them But sayd they certeyne of the Sect of the Pharisies which did beleeue rose vp saying that it was needfull to circumcise them and to commaunde them to keepe the lawe of Moses Then the Apostles Elders came together to looke to this matter Here when they came together no mention is made of Churches but of the Church and of the Apostles and Elders Which Elders wee haue shewed out of Caluin were the Pastors of the Church of Ierusalem So that if this assemblie shal be called a Synode or Councell yet was it but a Synode or Councell of one particuler Church and the Apostle S. Iames being the Gouernour or Bishop of that Church as is before proued was the concluder and finall determiner of that controuersie And therefore where our Brethren say some example we haue hereof Act. 15. This example fitteth not so well as they weene neither for the Synodes that they would haue nor for the authoritie of the Synode But if they will decide the matter by examples especially for redressing by Eccl. censure defaultes and controuersies and for punishing those Pastors or Elders of the Church which should be refourmers of others and haue notoriously misgouerned themselues Why forget they here how Saint Paule gaue Timothie not only authoritie to make Pastors ouer diuers particuler Churches but also how to receiue accusation agaynst the Pastorall Elders and those that sinne that is as our bretheren call it notoriously misgouerne themselues to rebuke them openly that is as Caluin exposideth it vt quisquis inter eos male se gesserit seuerè corrigatur Whosoeuer among them behaueth himselfe ill that he bee say our Bretheren seuerely punished So that if the Pastors defaults and controuersies cannot bee redressed by Ecclesiasticall censure not determined in the particuler Churches wherein they are Pastors why should they not first go either to the Bishop of the Dioces or further to the Archbishop of the Prouince as we haue seene sufficient proofe that Timothie was But if the matter be so difficult that it cannot yet be by them determined then in deede by the authoritie and licence of the Christian Magistrate if there be a Christian Magistrate as GOD be praysed we haue if we can be thankfull and obedient a Synode or Councell of many Bishops and Pastors may bee called and holden to refourme and redresse those enormities Sic tamen conuocetur Prouinciale concilium c. saith Danaeus lib. 3. Isag. cap. 38. But let the prouinciall Councell bee so called together that the same Synode be signified vnto the faithfull Magistrate of that place wherunto it commeth together to the ende that all suspition of cluttering together or of faction may be auoyded besides that neither ought that Prouinciall Synode to come together nor yet to bee summoned but that the power of calling together such an assemblie either generally or specially from the chiefe faithfull Magistrate of all that Region Kingdome or Common weale wherof that Prouince is a parte be before hand expresseây or by silent yeelding graunted and giuen vnto the Church and to the Pastors thereof And in deede for such great matters and controuersies in Religion and notorious misgouernances not onely of Pastors but of the Bishops and Archbishops themselues when the matters could not bee concluded nor the persons seuerely punished in their particuler Churches many Prouinciall and generall Councels were called and holden as against the Arrians Macedonians Nestorians Eutichians Monothelites c. Which Councels haue decided those great controuersies deposed
as wee may generally call it also his office too yet the office occupation or function ceaseth not in him and if nowe it may bee thus in so manie other offices which notwithstanding take all their denomination euen of the action and exercise of them and of the charge or dutie therein required why may it not and much more be thus in the order or office of the minister Doth his office cease if he be put from his place where he was first appointed to minister If his office should cease with the place then could hee minister in no other place Nay then were hee no minister at all anye longer so that turne him out of his place and turne him cleane out of his ministry if he be preferred to an other place he must be made minister again And is worse then as Chancer saith A Monke out of his cloyster is not worth an oyster for a monke is a monke still but the minister is become no minister and so all his preaching and ministring of the sacraments are a laye mans actions and not a ministers and by their owne consequence no sacraments at all if he do these things where his charge and flocke is not And in deede some of our Bretheren beginne to bée so precise that thinke it scarse lawefull to preach except it bée in their owne proper charges though they bée orderly requested thereunto but they neede not to bée squemish by this rule for there they are not Ministers at all if they do it Now if the office of the ministerie it selfe cease not with the altering of the place where they had a charge much lesse doth the institution and entrie into the office of the ministrie which is the ordeyning or geuing of orders depend vpon or require the necessitie of a place as it doth in the office of a Churchwarden or Counstable or in the offices that haue locall honours and dignities annexed to the degrees or to the offices of them as in Kinges Dukes Earles Lordes c. For these offices beginne togither with the places and charges annexed vnto them but in all the offices of ministrie it is not so And if our Bretheren will so vrge it let them looke to it their selues For I suppose that some of them if I take not my markes amisse and those too whom otherwise I reuerence and honour had not prouisions of place and charge of flocke committed vnto them at their verie first receiuing of their orders but perhaps taried some pretie while after and yet I hope they make account that they were ministers beefore Yea had they not bin ministers at all before and that tryed to bée both learned and presupposed to bée meete men they had not bin capable of those places and Charges And if I should goe further what one of our Bre. were not made simply ministers of the word and sacraments and not ministers condicionall as the ministers of this or of that place charge or flocke although it might bée some of them were alreadye prouides for in that béâhalfe but their taking of orders or office of the ministrie it selfe dependeth not theron which it muste haue done were the place a parte and that a necessarie parte of the office They say that this their learned discourse is a breefe plaine declaration concerning the desires of all those faithfull ministers that haue do seeke for the Discipline and reformation of the Churche of Englande But if this bee one of the poyntes they desire and seeke for then they desire and seeke for that which ouerthrowes both their owne ministerye and their faithfulnessâ too For if this rule be true then are they no faythfull ministers nor ministers at all hauing receaued the orders of ministery otherwise than their selues desire seeke for and prescribe that other should doe But they not considering this goe forwarde from their examples of Churchwarden and Constable to prooue it somewhat more Clerke-like For saye they the name of a Pastor Elder or Ouerseer is the name of an office in Act and Esse bicause it is a proper relatiue and not a potentiall ability in the cloudes Are all potentiall abilities in the Cloudes But our brethren were disposed heere to speake in cloudes and to tell the people of offices in Act and Esse of proper relations and of potentiall abilities be like bicause they woulde the worlde shoulde well vnderstande that this is for sooth a learned discourse howbeit all this discourse here is but of the names of this order or office of the ministerye But be they relatiues as proper as they will and the relation also in Act and Esse as they terme it yet doth it not follow that this actuall and essentiall relation must be so strictly related to a place where hée must bée a Pastor or Elder or Ouerseer that hée cannot bée made the Pastor Elder or Ouerseer till hée come thither his selfe and excercise the office actually for if there bée no potentiall abilitye but onely the verye Act and Esse thereof to be considered in the office of a Pastor Elder or ouerseer then is hée not a Pastor Elder or Ouerseer till hée doe feede or teache them gouerne them and ouersee them actually But if heée bée not the Pastor till he come actually his selfe to doe these actions among them then is all the action aforesayde in the Synode fustrate except they goe all home with him and ordaine him onely then and there when and where he must doe the thinges in act and esse that the name of his office hath relation vnto For say they the name of a Pastor Elder or ouerseer is the name of an office in act and Esse bicause it is a proper relatiue and not a potentiall abilitie in the Cloudes Is not this a proper valiance on the name of Pastor and to make it a proper relatiue doe they not make it withall a proper office Yea sée whereunto by this nice valiance on these names and termes this office will come and all bicause it may in no wise suffer a potentiall abilitie And whie so forsooth for feare it would vapour up by and by into the cloudes but admitte this to be true and then it presentlye followeth that when soeuer the officer ceaseth from the very act and doeing of his office as both vppon many occasions hée may sometimes doe and of naturall necessitye he must oftentimes do so often doth he cease to be a Pastor Elder or Ouerseer But because they stand upon these 3. names Pastor Elder and Ouerseer which they make all relatiues alike and to haue like relation unto an office in act and esse For the Esse it is an other matter if they meane the being of the office For assone as the office hath begun his esse or being then his esse or being continueth still in the office in all these 3. names thereof although the act in all
godly and yet vnperfect as wee our selues and all our actions and offices are Though our Bretheren boast too much of puritie and perfection wee rather tend to it than that wee are as yet able to apprehend it For as the Apostle sayth 1. Cor. 13. vers 9 10. wee knowe in parte and wee prophecie in parte but when that which is perfect is come then that which is in parte shal be abolished Would God both for our Bretheren and for vs wee were in the better parte for our ministerie and more neere to perfection all of vs both in that and in all things els than we be And for our partes wee are readie to abide all due and true reformation But as for such reformations as these are that these our learned Bretheren which call themselues all the faythfull Ministers doe desire or rather doe not desire but prescribe vnto us for the discipline and reformation of the Church of England they are so farre off from any neernes to perfection that forsooth and forsooth they would rather deforme vs altogether than any whit reforme vs or amend vs. Fourthly saye they if you will see how well the authoritie which they claime and practise is vsed of them that onely haue the choyce and admission of ministers looke ouer the whole Realme of England what a multitude of vnfit pastors shall you finde in euery place so that Ieroboam neuer made worse priestes of the refuse of the people to serue his golden Calues than they haue ordeyned ministers to feede the flocke of Christ which hee hath purchased with his owne blood It is good to see how well or ill the authoritie claymed is practised or vsed so wee see it with an intentiue and yet a single eye discerning euermore betweene the authoritie it selfe and the practise and in the practise betweene the vse and the abuse thereof Now if wee shall thus looke ouer the whole Realme of England which GOD bee praysed is a large circuite and conteyneth a very great number of Pastors it is lesse maruell if there bée many not in all things so good as their office and order doth require Saint Paule findeth fault in the Church of Corinthus euen with all the prophetes there being though not all of them yet many the ordinarie ministers and teachers of the worde for their great disorders And how much more especially in this our more corrupt age is it lesse woonder if wee should see a multitude of vnfit pastors in looking ouer a whole Realme and that such a Realme as Englande is maior est orbis vrbe sayth Saint Ierome And yet in the Citie where hee was at Rome the multitude of the euill Priestes or ministers and their enuie made him forsake Rome and goe to Bethelem Yea for the enuie of the Priestes and ministers long before him Tertullian from growing in malecontentment with the dissolute life of the ministers fell so farre from them that in the ende hee became a Montaniste And the too much disliking of the corrupt liues of the Bishops the Clergie and the Ministers in the auncient Churche hath made many too austere Ministers otherwise excellent learned men and streight liuers become Scismatikes as many of the precise nouatians and ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã or Puritanes were But now if wee shall looke ouer the whole Realme of England what a multitude say our Bretheren of vnfit Pastors shall you finde in euery place And indeede what a multitude I graunt moe than wee woulde there were or than there should bee For in duetie there ought none at all to bee vnfit But if wee shall viewe the number well without sinister affection I trust wee shall not stude considering the whole Realme so great a multitude as our Bretherens exclamation grounded on ill will to the state of all the Ministers and to their Ministerie it selfe would make the worlde beleeue that there is vnfitnesse in so many that euen in euery place wee should finde a multitude of them Whereas contrarywise though there bee not a multitude of fitte Pastors in euery place yet there is some and some good multitude in many places God bee praysed for it and encrease the multitude of them But they finde fault not onely with the multitude of vnfitte Pastors in euery place but that also they bee so vnfitte that they spare not to saye so that Ieroboam neuer made worse Priestes of the refuse of the people to serue his golden Calues then they haue ordeyned Ministers c. Where here they speake not of so odde particular euill persons either degenerating from their order or vnworthie to haue bene at alâ ordeyned or perchaunce crept into the number by subornation and counterfeiting to bée ministers and are not as in a whole Realme such naughtie persons may bee found but speake it generally and of a great multitude in euery place These bitter speeches seeme rather to arise from the froth of some sharpe choler if not very melancholie comprehending in generall the good and the bad to compare not onely the poore ministers that to their habilities feede the flocke of Christ which he hath purchased with his owne blood to the Idolatrous Priestes that Ieroboam made of the refuse of the people to serue his golden Calues but also with like generalitie of all the Bishoppes without discerning who hath made any vnfit ministers and who not that the fault being personall might light vpon the persons offending they charge them all alike that they haue all done as did that execrable Apostata and Idolatrous tyrant Ieroboam who being though a Prince yet a mere laye man tooke vppon him to make Priestes and ministers of the rascalles and refuse of the people whereas in déede neither hee had he bene otherwise neuer so good coulde make any Priestes at all nor they had they bene neuer so ââtte learned or godly could bée made Priestes being not of the stocke of Aaron and so in deede were no true Priestes at all But what doe I goe about to repell this so manifest a sclaunder the indignitie whereof deserueth chastisement rather than answere saue that our Bretheren vââ a little poynt of cunning herein from which they should the rather shunne because as ill men as was Ieroboam euen many auncient Hereticks vsed the same comparison And at this daye it is the common practise of the Papistes when they would breede a misliking of all our doctrine and our ministerie to vndermyne it by finding fault with the ministers vnfitnesse in their liues and learning And because they dare not openly condemne all which is their meaning they make a shewe to bee offended with the multitude of the vnfittest ministers I wisse if wee should thus rigge into the vnfitnesse and that of ministers which are greate fauourites and vegers of these deuises and reformations wee could finde if not a multitude in euery place which God forbid yet some
numbers very vnfit to bee called faithfull ministers that desire the reformation of the Church of England Which haue made such deformation in the ministerie and therevppon being partly misliked of vs and partly either hauing bene punished or fearing punishment haue falne to take vpon them a great countenaunce of this our Bretherens zeale and practise that they vse to inueigh against the Bishops chalenging them for pride and tyrannie and against all the Clergie and state of Ecclesiasticall gouernment now established and these men get such great credite among many our male-contented Bretheren that I am afrayde some of them goe in the multitude and name also of these faithfull ministers that recommend vnto vs this their learned discourse Qui simulant Curios Bacchanalia viuunt But let such passe as they are worthie whome I rather lament than studie to decipher their vnworthinesse Howbeit of these our learned but missezealous Bretheren I thinke more reuerently as becommeth mée and doe not condemne them all for the multitude and number of some among them and craue that they would affoord vs the like equitie not for the defaultes of some though a multitude to condemne all and withall it selfe all the ministerie too for so wee may call the doctrine also too néere in question and the whole corps and substance of our Church This complaynt wee confesse is grieuous but the indignitie of the matter inforceth it Wee knowe that vayne excuses shall not bee wanting of necessitie c. But if necessitie compelled them to take such at the first what necessitie compelleth them to suffer them to bee such still For if they would needes admit ignorant persons to that charge yet should they haue inforced them to studie as well as to other thinges they haue inforced them vnto that in tyme they might haue growen to bee meete for their calling Which if they had done in 10.12 or 13. yeeres space a great many might haue prooued excellently well learned and able to serue in the Church with great fruite and profite and the rest according to proportion of their tyme might haue come to some mediocritie in knowledge whereas now as ignoâaunt and as vnfit as they were the first day so are they still for the most parte and will so continue to their liues ende if they may be suffered in ydlenesse as they haue bene hetherto After our Bretheren haue thus bitterly compared the multitude of our Pastors in euery place to Ieroboams Idolatrous Priestes they now goe about to excuse themselues of this so grieuous a complaynt and âithall to cut off from vs all excuses This complaynt say they we confesse is greeuous but the indignitie of the matter inforceth it It is a greeuous complaynt in deede as they confesse and an heynous both agaynst the Bishoppes and agaynst their poore Bretherân ministers Neither is there any so greeuous indignitie or necessitie that inforceth them to complayne so greeuouslie and beyonde not onely the veritie of the matter but the boundes both of charitie and all modestie and that in such greeuous maner of complayning not by lowlie supplication exhibited in writing to her most excellent Maiestie or to her most honourable Councell but to published in print to all the whole Realme and that without licence to print it yea agaynst Lawe and order giuen in such behalfe so to doe and to scatter it abroade in euery parte of the whole Realme as much as they may and that with such reprochefull inuectiues and notorious sclaunders doth any thing or should any thing inforce our Bretheren to complayne in this extreame maner But now from this insufficient excuse of their so greeuous complaynt on the Bishops our Ministers they turne to the taking away from vs the refuge and mitigation of all excuses Wee knowe say they that vayne excuses shall not bee wanting of necessitie c. That that is amisse and can bee so euicted if our Bretheren will needes become so rough that it maye deserue no modest excuse nor mitigation with them wee will gladly confesse it and studie to refourme it in good order And so God bee praysed as wee may wee doe And if wee âid not lawe would compell vs. But they knowe before hand as they say that wee will alleadge necessitie And they also before hand will reiect it as a vayne excuse For wee knowe say they that vayne excuses shall not be wanting of necessitie c. And how knowe théy before hand that wee would alleadge necessitie Doth their minde before hand misgiue that there was at the first some necessitie indeede and why might it not then be alleadged But what meane they here by adioyning this c. Doe they also knowe before hand that we haue some other excuses if necessitie would not be admitted And would they not alleadge them too but suppresse them or without all regarde or hearing or knowing of them shake them off before hand as vayne excuses to But not to stand vppon et-ceteraes let vs see what they say to necessitie And yet they haue cast off that also before hand as a vayne excuse And indeede if they meane it that wee should alleaââe that necessitie draue our Bishop to ordeyne and vs allow such persons of whom they sayd before IeroboaÌ neuer made worse then as he had no necessitie that did or ought to haue driuen him to make suche Priestes so wee could not alleadge anâ such necessitie but that it should bee a very vayne excuse to choose and ordeyne such not vayne onely but most vyle persons But wee are farre God bee praysed both from excusing such false and wicked Pastors or rather no Pastors at all or from excusing any that haue made such as they knewe or suspected to bee either an euill person in life or altogether vnfitte in knowledge for the ministerie Notwithstanding if wee shall better consider of the matter how for the neede and want of learned Preachers especially at that first tyme when the Popish pastors were remooued and the learned Preachers of the Gospell were the most of them destroyed saue a small remaynder and fewe of any towardnesse in learning indeuoured themselues vnto the Ministerie but rather to other professions and since that tyme also seeing on the one side so many hunting and prowlling after those the Clergies liuinges or the fleecing of them which for their better maintenaunce in learning and hospitalitie they were endowed withall and how the Clergie were continually enuyed pinched and pulled at and on the other side seeing the innouations and garboyles of our Bretheren themselues in the Clergie to make odious to the people both the Pastors and also all the Prelates of the Realme and the peoples vnthankfulnesse and their owne vncerteyntie whereby the learned sort were the more discouraged and their friendes would hardly permit them for these and other reasons to enter into this function of the ministerie so difficult in it selfe so
yâ country exercises amoÌg the poore old simple ministers that in 10.12 or 13. yeres space a great many might haue proued excellent wel learned able to serue in the Church with great fruit profit but God be praised for it though our brethren will not acknowledge it some haue reaped hereby much fruit and profite are become proper schollers and preachers too And the rest saye they according to the proportion of their time might haue come to some mediocrity in knowledge This is better said of this sort are I hope if not all yet the most part Wheras now say they as ignorant as vnfit as they were the first day so are they still for the most part will so continue to their liues end if they may be suffred in Idlenes as they haue bin hitherto If any such Idle droanes be so be proued they may by law be more sharply ceÌsured or remoued without remouing of the law for theÌ That anâ be suffred in idlenes so haue bin hitherto let the suffrers answer it suffer the shame or smart therof when the accusers haue proued it but let our brethren here take heede of slaunders Then it is a torment to think what ambitious suing what eâuio us laboring what vnseemely flattering what prodigall bribing is vsed to attain to great dignities in the church too far vnmeete for the modesty grauity that should be in christiaÌ preachers as for the inferior benefices froÌ the fattest Parsonage to the porest Vicarige almost if it be worth 40. pouÌd by the yere what Simonical bargains of Leases annuiâies reseruations exhibitions yea notwithstanding the Act of Parliament Anno. 13. by Antidates other subtill conueiances what Christian harte can thinke of them without detestation of such horrible abuses The crimes here heaped vp together are all personall neither the faults of yâ law it selfe nor approued by any law established in the church oâ EnglaÌd How soeuer any party is acquitt or gilty the authoryty of the law remaines intiere where it findeth such horrible abuses cléerly proued it seueâely punisheth theÌ if it be duly executed therfore thus to agrauate these crimes to reason froÌ them to take away the B. pastors lawful authority conteineth a nuÌber of fallatioÌs ab accedente ab ignoratione elenchi a non causavt causa a secundum quid ad simpliciter it may as easily be retorted on our Bre. that wheÌ they had done al that euer they could except not onely they would cleane take away all the great dignities which is their drift and which some be glad to barken after but take away withall the inferiour benefices froÌ the fattest Parsonage to the porest Vicarige also yet woulde therâ bee corruptions and abuses still in diuers persons though their might be the lesse ambitious suings when the liuinges were so horribly spoiled which indéede were a worse spoyle than any is made and more detestable And yet would there be ambition still far peraduenture worse in another more perilous sort than any now there is Diogenes when he sayd that he tramplâd downe Platonis fastum the pompe of Plato it was well aunswered sed maiore fastu but with a greater pompe then Plato had Shal wee speake heere any thing of the popish Priesthood the greatest blasphemie that euer was howe longe was it allowed for a lawefull Ministerye vntill by the godlye meaning of the sayde Parlyament some brande-marke of shame was sette vppon it But how pitifullye that aucthoritye was abused whereas by the same statute committed to the Bishoppes in allowing of Priestes that came to doe their pennaunce by negligence of the Byshoppes and bribeâye of their officers the countrye cryeth out of it and the state of the Churche is little amended by it Olde sir Iohn lacke latine that had not seene some of his Benefices a dosen yeare before was carryed aboute on his mare and sometimes on a carte firste to the Bishop whome he chose if he might for his purpose such a one as had beene a priest of his owne order and cared leaste what Ministers serue in his diocoese and then from shire to shire one distante an hundreth myle from another mumbling vp his Articles in his morrow masse voyce in euerye Church where he had liuing and returned as verie a beaste as he came Wee account the Popish Priestehood as great blasphemy as our brethren doe But how long say they was it allowed for a lawefull ministerye Neuer allowed at all amongste vs saye wée For euen when the masse was abolished their blasphemous sacrificing ministerie was abolished for an vnlawfull ministerye And yet as vnlawfull as that blasphemous ministerye was in respect of most horrible blasphemies that it was corrupted with all especially their vnbloudye sacrifice yet can wée not saye that it was in all respectes meerely no ministerye at all nor had anye lawfull actions in that vnlawfull ministerie The Pharises though otherwise sectaries and mainteyning blasphemous errours and were the deadly enemies of Christe and his Gospell yet did not Christe vtterly condemne their ministery but that he sayd they sat in Moses chayre and had the key of knowledge And so now and then some of the popish priestes preached the truth in some things For if our brethren will make them but meere laye men then are neither they nor wee any ministers at all but mere laye men also For who ordeyned vs ministers but such ministers as were either their selues of their Ministerie or at leaste were made ministers of those ministers except they will saye the people can make ministers and that which is more we must eyther graunt that he which is no minister but a meere lay man may baptise which our brethren vtterly haue denied or els that al those which were borne in the time of that ministery were not at all baptized and so not onely a great many both of vs and of our brethren are not yet baptised but that also baptisme vtterly ceased in the churches Yea that so the Church and all ceased when there was no other ministerie And therfore we must not vtterly condeÌne the whole ministerie but distinguish betwene it the good therin on the one side the blasphemies al the bad therin on the other side which did corrupt it This corruptioÌ is to be takeÌ froÌ it and then the Ministerie it selfe which is the office of teaching or preaching of the word of God the Ministration of the Sacraments of Christ the making of publike prayers and the gouerning or executing of those thinges that perteyne to the publike gouernment and discipline of the Church is good and lawfull Neyther were any of these so excellent Ministers Luther Suinglius oecolompadius Caluine Bucer Peter Martyr many others made Ministers a newe but disclaimed onely and renounced all the errors corruptions and blasphemeis in the Ministerie
which before they had receaued âs wée haue heard Caluines prescription Epist. 373. and so continued still in the office or ministery thus repurged And therefore since the masse was taken away and all âhe other corruptions of the Ministerie that were vsed in the popish priesthood an other Ministration appointed as is sette downe in our booke of publike prayer by the godly lawes of the realme and Church of England established which was done so soone as conueniently it could be done forthwith after her Maiesties moste happy entrance into this kingdome this is not truly sayd that the popish priesthood being the greatest blasphemie that euer was was alowed for a lawfull Ministerie vntill by the godly meaning of the sayd parliament Anno. 13. some brande-marke of shame was sette vppon it As though the sacrificing Priesthoode had continued with allowance therof for thirteene yere together of the Queenes Maiesties raigne which was as long a time as before they mencioned for the inforcing of the ministers to studie Yea by this rule it continueth still though disallowed or rather as they say but noted onely with a brand-marke of shame set vpon it So that this is not the taking of it awaye but the continuing of it with more shame to the parliament and to all the states of the Realmâ that haue marked it with a brand-marke of shame and yet shame not to continue it though we disallow it And this withall is but a shamefull and vnreuerent terme that here they vse in calling eyther the statute or the booke of articles agreed vppon by all the clergie of the Churche of England and approued in the high courte of parliament by al the states of the realme and by the statute commaunded to be read a brand-marke of shame But our brethren to mittigate the matter say the parliament had a godly meaning in making that statute for Priestes that had bin made in the tyme of Popery to professe their consent to the true doctrine agreed vpon in the booke of articles by their publike reading of the same booke in their benefices Yea verily the parliament had therein a very godly meaning and it was also as godly an act âs meaning of the parliament But saye they how pitifullye that authority was abused which by the same statute was committed to the Bishops in allowing of Priestes that came to doe their pennance by negligence of the Bishops and bribery of their officers the country cryeth out of it and the state of the Church is little amended by it There is no such crying out in the country as are these outcries of our brethren If it be but little amended yet little is somewhat But if it bee not greate that is not to be unputed to the good lawe but to the euill and indirect accidents For it was not pitifull that that authority was committed to the Bishops in allowing of Priestes that came not as our brethren here say to doe their pennance or to haue a brand-marke of shame set vpon them but the statute it selfe more reuerently and rightly setteth downe the cause and order of their act saying That the Churches of the Queenes Maiesties dominions maye bee serued with Pastors of sound religion be it enacted by the authority of this present Parliament that euerye person vnder the degree of a Byshop which doth or shall pretende to be a priest or Minister of gods holy worde and Sacramentes by reason of anye other fourme of institution consecration or ordeyning than the forme set foorth by Parliament in the tyme of the late King of most worthye memorye King Edwarde the sixte or now vsed in the raigne of our moste gratious Soueraigne Ladye before the feaste of the Natiuitie nexte following shall in the presence of the Bishop or gardian of the spiritualties of some one diocoese where he hath or shall haue ecclesiasticall liuing declare his assent and subscribe to all the articles of religion which onely concerne the confession of the true Christian Faith and the doctrine of the SacrameÌts comprised in a booke imprinted intituled Articles wherupoÌ it was agreed by the Archbish. Bish. of both prouinces the whole Clergy in the Conuocation holden at London in the yeare of our lorâ God 1562. According to the computation of the Church of england for the auoyding of the diuersities of opinions and for the establishing of consent touching true Religion put forth by the Queenes Authoritye And shall bring from suche B. or gardian of Spiritualties in wryting vnder his Seale authentike and testimoniall of such assent subscription openly on some Sonday in the time of publike seruice afore noone in euery church wher by reasoÌ of any Ecc liuing he ought to atteÌd reade both the said Testimoniall the said articles vpon paine that euery such persoÌ which shal not before the said feast do as is aboue appointed shall be ipso facto depriued al his Eccl. promotions shal be voyd as if he then were naturally dead These are the very words of the statute Wherein what could they better haue prouided than whatsoeuer they should ordeyne for the bringing of those persons to the more sure confession and consent of sound Religion firste to come before the Bishoppe or the Gardian of the âpirituall iurisdiction in the Bishops vacancie in some one Diocoese where hee had any ecclesiasticall promotion or liuing and there before him declare his consent and also subscribe to all the articles of religion which onelye concerne the confession of the true Christian Faith c. Before whom should he haue done this if he should doe it authentically than before the Bishop or the bishops gardian being the publike officers that haue competent authority ouer him in those matters which withall confuteth our brethrens equall authority of all Pastors If the bishops were negligent or the officers take bribes this was the bishops the officers fault not any default in the lawes Wise men should not doe like WilliaÌ Summer strike one for another But if the bishops negligence and the bribery of the officers be so great that the countrye cryeth out of it and the state of the Church is little amended it is then so much the easier to be knowne who are the offenders that so pitifâlly abused this godly meaning of the statute that authority committed to them and not they to be thus disorderly cried out vpon and that in this vncharitable maner by inuectiue libelles vnder the tytle of learned discourses to be thus discoursed vpon with taunts slaunders defamed to all the worlde so much as lyes in them If the matter be little amended this is not to amend it more but to make it worse for this is naught worth but to norishe malice suspitioÌ sclaunder yet the fault not knowne much lesse ameÌded Let the negligence briberies with true desire of reformation as the title of this learned discourse pretendeth
be iudicially in forme of law complained vpon the parties being named if aliue called accused heard considered conuicted therof before their lawfull magistrate then we all the country would coÌmend therin our brethrens iust more charitable dealing then might they better thinke of our bretheren to bee in true meaning suche faithful Ministers as indéede desired the reformation of the Church of Englands discipline At leastwise whatsoeuer the country would thinke or speake both the party and the matter that were proued faulty of little might be much and much sooner amended But on this fashioÌ to deface B. their officers spread about such sclaunders suspicions on them all sober and godly affected may mislike it and all the country may cry out theron that it is not the part of faithful ministers brethren that it procéedth neither of true zeale wisedom faithfulnes Iustice or charity nor tendeth little or much to anye amendment of the right reformation or true Churches state or of the persons or of the maâter But nowe if wee shall consider the matter better I speake as they doe in generall tyll some instance bée orderlye produced to the contrary that they should heerein so heighnously accuse the bishops of negligence though the lesser faulte and the officers bryberye for this matter whatsoeuer the neglience of the one or the bribery of the other might doe hurte in other matters there is no likelihood in the worlde either of the one or of the other in this matter neither could the Bishop with his negligence or any fauour or the officers with their bribes taking hinder yâ procéeding or relieue the person or abuse the authoritie or defeate the penaltie of the sâatute For it is so prouidently prouided for by the authoritye of the same highe court of parliament that the party must not onely bring from the Bishop or gardian of the spiritualties in writing vnder his seale auteÌtike a testimoniall of such assent and subscription but also openly onsome sonday in the time of publike seruice afore noone in euerye Church where by reason of any liuing he ought to attend the partie shall reade both the sayde testimoniall and the sayde Articles and all this to be done vppon paine of loosing all his Eccl. promotions ipso facto So that here no negligence or any corruption of the Bishop nor briberie of the officers coulde any whit helpe the partie but that hee must needes do the thinges that are thus prescâibed to be so openly in the face of all the Church performed Which things now if the minister did not as he ought to do vnfeynedly and with all his hart but hypocritically that is not the Bishops nor the officers fault his owne sin be vpon his owne head But if his sin be founde out and be not further punished so farre as the Bishop by his superiour authority may doe then hardly blame the Bishop and his officers if the faulte thereof be in them As for poore olde sir Ihon lacke latines lacke of latine that fault is not to be laide to any of our Bishops that made him not priest howbeit many of our most zealous brethren which take vpon them not onely to bee faithfull ministers but to bee preachers also néede not much to insulte vpon old sir Iohn for lacke of latine But what an olde mumpsimus haue they heere raked out to make their wondermente and spectacle of example vppon to leuell all those priestes by for whome the statute in the wordes aboue cited was enacted Here is drawne out as it were an owle out of an Iuie Bush for all the birds to ho wt at an olde sir Iohn lacke latine though hee had his orders from rome a porta latina hauing as it were a tot quot of benefices on his back in a number of diuers shires one benefice distant a 100. miles froÌ another miserably carried about in a cart or on his mare bestia super bestiam to goe mumble vp his articles in his morrow masse voice in euery church where hee had liuing and returne as verye a beast as hee came What meane our brethren to bring foorth such a beast as they haue here described or did they know of any such in all England and if they did the crie of all the countrye ranâ vpon him and that he was by negligence of the bishop and briberie of the officers borne out and vnpunished then may hee the eassier be knowne and the other parties also if liuing to be punished all in time And not for this one odde palinodie all the Bishops their officers to be thus burdened with such crimes and outcries for abusing that authority of the statute committed vnto them But if that knowing no such old croust yet in the person and discription of such an hypocrite they would insult on all thosâ Ministers that had before bin popish priestes especially vpon the poore old and simpler sorte of them they offer a great many honest men that are neyther beastes nor Papistes too great and too contumelious an iniury that are nowe God bethanked Good sound conuerted protestants But let vs take this old sir Ihon as they haue here set him out If nowe he had so many benefices that he saw not some of them in a dosen yeare before there is expresse statute to haue abridged his number and lawes to limite his circuite too But if he held them by any lawe or priuiledge and saw them not before in a dosen yeres nor were by necessary impediment deteyned from them prouided not the better in his absence for their instruction and the diuine seruice with the administration of the sacraments the preaching of the worde of God to bee orderly set foorth vnto them by some other to supply that which by his infirmity absence and ignorance he could not do him selfe then indéede the Bishop and his officers may pertake the blame with him contrarywise if he did all these thinges what could the Bishop do against him But if now vpon this statute for feare he should loose his benefices this old sir Iohn lacke Latine were carried about on his mare and somtimes on a cart so it were to doe his duty eyther then or before or after if he were so carryed about eyther for pouerty or infirmity our brethren should not haue obiected that vnto him Euery one that cannot haue a horse to ride on pouerty may make him glad that he hath a mate or else he might perhaps trot on bayard a tentoes and he that could neyther ride nor goe by reason of great age or other weakenes if hee could neyther haue horselitter couche nor waggon he must haue bin carryed in a carte or else tarry at home loose his benefice for any remedy he had that I knowe of but howsoeuer his case stoode pouerty and infirmity are rather me thinkes to be pitied than vpbraided yea though the man otherwise deserued no
pleaseth vs also to afforde them so much credite as it pleaseth them to pawne so free a promise but for anye reason to mooue vs héere is none but that they giue as héere three promises togeather that abuses shall not so soone nor so easilye nor so many creepe in as nowe they thrung in at wyde windowes and port gates Indéede considering well of all that pro con hath passed betweene vs in the examining but of this their learned discourse we neede not doubt that abuses would thrung in at wyde windowes and port gates as they say now they doe for when all the walles are beaten downe what infinite abuses and worse than abuses may not most soone come in not only creeping but come tumbling in fayâe and easilie if not rather foule and most conâusedly howbeit we feare not beating downe the walles or one port gate or but portall or but windowe opened or any hole made by all the batterie of these our learned Bretheren except wee will let them as we doe too much discourse and take their pleasure indeede to dispose and transpose to pull downâ ând set vy all things as they please to frame them Now whether they feare this obiection to be too true or in securitie they will graunt it vs for their further pleasure But if say they as many or moe abuses if moe could be were crept in yet were it better than it is now for we should be sure that God approueth our order though he condemne the abuses because it is grouÌded vpon Gods word whereas now he abhorreth both And can our brethren at length confesse this difference betwixt the order grounded vpon Gods word and the abuses rising vpon mans corruption how chaunce then they haue grounded all their former so bitter inuectiues agaynst the orders of our Ministerie vpon the abuses of the Ministers and all to bleare the peoples eyes to make the orders odious because of the offensiue abuses that they pretend agaynst the persons But it is well that yet they here confesse that their owne orders which they would haue are not free from abuses yea froÌ as many or more abuses than are the orders that we haue They doe well to graunt this before hand for if their orders were admitted we should finde it too true afterward that there would be as many or more abuses Neuerthelesse they set a good face thereon that for all there were more abuses Tush what of all that yet should our case be better when it should bee worser than it is now Yea how can that be For we should be sure that God approueth our order And how should we be sure of this Because it is grounded vpon Gods word But can they tell vs in what part of Gods word this ground lyeth they haue oftentimes told vs it is grounded on Gods word but when we come to seeke for the words wée can neuer find theÌ nor any necessary consequence that they haue led vs vnto in all the word of God either for any example or commaundement that wee are charged or bounde to followe and therfore this is but their owne confident presupposall When they can proue such a ground in Gods word for them then we will yea wee must yeeld will wée âill wée to Gods orders But till then wée craue leisure that remouing the abuses as well as God will giue vs grace we may keepe our orders still in Gods name except wee might bee better assured of better orders and lesse subiect to abuses than these be But of the authoritie that Pastors haue as members of the Synode wee haue spoken hetherto sufficiently By which it is euident how all things haue bene corrupted in Poperie which had at the first any good institution which corruptions we also retayne at this day without desiring of any reformation To that they say they haue spoken hetherto sufficiently of the authoritie that Pastors haue as members of the Synode whether it be also aunswered sufficiently to that they haue spoken therevpon I yeeld it to the indifferencie of the Reader But what is this they say here that Pastors haue as members of the Synode Indeede they vsed that terme before pag. 111. of the Pastors double authoritie the one ioyned with the Elders of the Church whereof he is Pastor the other with the Synode or holy assemblie whereof he is a member But after that they sayde pag. 117. who should bee able to knowe what order comelinesse and edification requireth according to Gods word but they that bee teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others What then meane they by these termes that they haue authoritie as members of the Synode If they meane as all the members and so as the whole that none be members or parts of the Synod but only they then holde they tacke indeede to that their former clayme who should bee able to knowe those things but they But in so doing they not onely quite exclude the Prince but their gouerning Elders also and their Deacons whom if they will not exclude from some authoritie as members also of the Synod then was that not sufficiently spoken or rather they gaue their Pastors more than sufficient authoritie in the Synode The corruptions in Poperie our Bishoppes and such as acknowledged their Episcopall authoritie founde out God bee praysed for it before our Bretheren came and reformed the same and they now vnthankfully reward the reformers of those corruptions to affoord them this good word for their labour that we reteyne those corruptions at this day and that without desiring of any reformation If in saying we they speake of themselues they are their owne Iudges if of the Queenes most excellent Maiestie and of all the Prelates and Pastors and whole state of the Church and Realme of England it is too euident and too foule a sclaunder that wee reteyne at this day all things that haue bene corrupted in Poperie and that without desiring any reformation Neither helpeth it that they say all thinges which at the first had any good institution they haue not yet bene able to proue that by authoritie of any lawe established wee reteyne so much as any one such corrupted thing but either haue reiected it if it could not bââ scoured from the rust and ranker of that corruption or if it could wée haue so clensed and refourmed the same to his good institution that wee may well and safely reteyne it without desiring innouation If any persons reteyne the corruptions still that is contrarie to the reformation of the lawe and punishable vpon the lawfull proofe in the reteyner And sith they doe here confesse that the institutions were good of those things whereof they say wee reteyne the corruptions howsoeuer we reteyne them the institution of them was not nought if good but lawdable And therefore they are not vtterly to be condemned but contrarywise may be well reteyned being reduced to their first
is decreed amongst themselues that must be called the determination of the whole Synode I meruell that our Bretheren shamed nor feared not to stuffe their learned discourse with so many manifest vntrueths It is most euident that nothing is or can bee decreed in the name of the whole Synodes determination without the whole Synode comprehending at least the greatest number for the whole haue decreed and determined the same So that say they no man must bee suffered to speake any thing agaynst it bee it neuer so reasonable or agreable to the worde of God This is another most great and manifest vntrueth sclaunderous to the Bishoppes and reproachfull to the whole Conuocation There is none of the house but that may in any matter that is propounded to bee debated vppon yea any other though not of the house being knowne to be a reuerent godly wise and learned person either of the Ministerie yea in some cases though he were not any Ecclesiasticall person yet might he also bee freely admitted according to the auncient Canons to speake before the house in such sorte and manner as the order of the house requireth for those that bee or should bee learned men to speake their minde in the Latine tongue for feare some young Sir Iohn lacke latine would bee ouer busie and so to reason freely pro contra obseruing alwaies that modestie and reuerence which beseemeth the assemblie of graue and learned men And in this maner many haue propounded and reasoned vpon diuers matters as those that are auncients in the Conuocations heretofore can witnesse Yea saye they whosoeuer will not subscribe to all such thinges as they decree must bee excluded out of the Conuocation as was practised and threatned in the Conuocation at the foresayde Parliament vnto diuers godly and learned Preachers that offered to speake agaynst diuers grosse and palpable errors that had escaped the Bishops Our Bretheren hauing so often broken the squire of trueth in these matters doe here waxe bold to rappe out vntrueths now by huddles What one Preacher hath bene excluded out of the Conuocation for this that he would not subscribe to all such thinges as the Bishoppes among themselues haue decreed Or can they bring any instance but of such one threat made vnto them And albeit a threat differeth from the putting it in practise yet this also is a notorious sclaunder There was no such thing either practised or threatned at any tyme in our Conuocations namely at that tyme they mention which I remember well and so doe many others when some speaking in English began to bee ouer busie and to vse disordered behauiour with vnreuerent termes they were by the Prolocutor as moderator commaunded to silence or els to departe and not to disturbe the house nor alter the lawdable orders thereof except they would and that in seemely modestie speake in Latine which these godly and learned Preachers that our Bretheren commende liked not to doe Neuerthelesse other being indeede godly and learned Preachers did very reuerently and with great learning discusse those matters And so with generall consent either of all or which sufficed of the most and best parte those Articles were condescended vpon and approoued for good and sound doctrine And so I hope will stand for any thing that our Bretheren or any other shall euer bee able to say agaynst them As for any and much lesse diuers grosse and palpable errours that escaped the Bishops I remember none nor can learne of any The Decrees conteyned in the articles aforesayd are published to the open viewe of of euery man if our Bretheren as yet can burthen them with any grosse or palpable errour or with any errour at all though not grosse nor palpable or but with apparance or suspition of errour it were worth the hearing But if there bee no such errour in them who are then worthie the punishing or at least worthie to acknowledge with repentaunce and reuoking this so great a sclaunder For it toucheth not our Bishoppes and the Conuocation onely but béeing established also as is aforesayde by act of Parliament and so the professed doctrine of all the Realme and Church of England how are wee not all hereby defaced to maynteyne grosse and palpable errours and that in no small poynts of doctrine If Papistes had sayd this it had bene lesse meruell which hate our doctrine and count it stuffe full of errours and heresies too But they neuer were nor are nor euer shall bée God willing able to prooue that we mainteyne any one errour in any one article of doctrine but agree in all the substance of Religion with the true and syncere worde of God Yea our Bretheren their selues bearing vs witnesse who in the Preface of this learned discourse confesse that for the substance of Religion it is resolued and now publikly maynteyned for our true and holy faith How could this bee true if those articles namely these which here they note being matter of faith and publikely maynteyned and resolued by all the Church of England to bee true and holie were grosse and palpable errours But to shewe both vnto them and to all the worlde least the Papistes should take holde hereon when they heare of this our owne Bretherens accusation which will bee euen meate and drinke to them béeing glad to feede vppon such sclaunders that as wee are sounde GOD bée blessed for it in all other articles of doctrine so in these wee maynteyne no errour at all but a most sure and syncere trueth let vs come to the viewe of these two Articles that here they mention for example As for the distinction saye they of Canonicall and Apocryphall bookes Although this bee a matter wherein good and godly Fathers haue had some difference yet for our Bishoppes and Conuocations decree thereon I see not how our Bretheren shall bee able to finde that wee holde any error in that matter It is the sixth Article the wordes whereof are these Holy Scripture conteyneth all things necessarie to saluation so that whatsoeuer is not read therein nor may bee proued thereby is not to be required of any man that it should bee beleeued as an article of the faith or bee thought requisite or necessarie to saluation In the name of the holy Scripture wee doe vnderstand those canonicall bookes of the old and newe Testament of whose authoritie was neuer any doubt in the Church Of the names and number of the Canonicall bookes Genesis Exodus Leuiticus Numeri Deuteronomie Iosue Iudges Ruth The first booke of Samuell The 2. booke of Samuell The first booke of Kings The 2. book of Kings The 1. booke of Chroni The 2. booke of Chroni The 1. booke of Esdras The 2. booke of Esdras The booke of Hester The booke of Iob. The Psalmes The Prouerbes Ecclesiast or preacher Cantica or songs of Sal. 4. Prophets the greater 12. Prophets the lesse And the other bookes as Ierome
giltlesse And of these I trust we haue sufficiently acquit our selues as for other we are to aunswere in our defence when we shall haue heard their accusation But and they be such as these bicause they tel vs before hand such like I hope in God we shall do well enough and had those matters that they suppresse bin worse than these I suppose they would not haue opened these and folded vp those on this fashion But if they be foorth comming wée neede not long to héere of them we shall haue them I warrant you with a recumbentibus all in tyme in the meane time welcome be the grace of God But let vs now sée how our brethren conclude and rattle vp our Bishops for these articles and for all the other matters that they haue charged them with If this say thây be not to practise Lordship ouer Faith to set downe decrees of religion which must be accepted of all men without eyther reason or testimonie of the scripture to prooue them and no man permitted to shewe any reason or scripture that enforceth his conscience to the contrarie but onely to hang vpon the authority of bishops let some other declare what Paule meaneth 2. cor 4. where he denieth that he woulde exercise anye Lordship ouer the Fayth of the Corinthians Our bretheren shewe heere a manifest proofe howe true that Article is which they saye was set dowâe by the Bishops and the conuocation that the elect maye departe from grace For I account of our bretheren as of the number of Gods elected Yet if they had not in this their learned discourse departed or fallen to much from grace woulde they or coulde they haue so fallen from the truth heerein by such vntrue and notorious sclaunders thus to seeke the vtter disgracing and defacing of the Bishops haue they prooued or can they prooue anye one article or decree of Fayth and Religion wherein the bishops haue taken vpon them any such Lordeship or anye Lordeship at all ouer our Fayth doth not euen the very former article of these two last cyted by our bretheren themselues against the Bishops for the distinction of the Canonicall bookes fully discharge the Bishops of this sclaunder that holy Scripture conteyneth all thinges necessary to saluation so that whatsoeuer is not read therein nor may be proued therby is not to be required of any maÌ that it should be beleued as an Article of Fayth or be thought requisite or necessary to saluation Doe they which with their bretheren in the conuocation doe set downe this decree for faith and Religion practise Lordeship ouer our fayth or set downe decrees of religion which must bee accepted of all men without eyther reason or testimonie of the Scripture to prooue them and no man permitted to shewe anye reason or Scripture that inforceth his conscience to the contrarie but onely to hang vpon the authoritie of Bishops When the Bishops in most plaine woordes renounce all such authoritie and referre it onely to the canonicall Scripture who may not see if he will not wilfully of too too much affection blindfold himselfe the apparance of this sclaunder But our Bretheren say they haue set downe the decrees without eyther reason or testimony of the scripture to proue theÌ I graunt it that for some they haue so done neyther is it the nature of briefe suÌmarie Articles which in Synodes are agreed vppon after that they haue bin by reason and Scripture cléerely proued and are apparant to haue them set out with their proues annexed to them which is another point beside the Articles In the ordinances Ecclesiasticall of the Church of Genena and the orders of the schole of the said Citie set out in french An. 1578. of the which many are of faith and religion and in their summarie of the Christian Doctrine annexed do they still adioyne their prooues by reasons testimonies of the Scripture And haue not all the most auncient councels which are greater than our conuocations in all their articles and decrees kept the selfe same order most briefely and plainely to set downe the naked article by it selfe so thus haue they set downe also the articles of their créedes And so is the summary of our Faith commonly called the Apostles Creede set downe in most short plaine and simple wordes and sentences without annexing the reasons or testimonies of Scripture that confirme them For when these ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã or principles gathered as capitall conclusions and resolutions of the scripture are thus set downe if they bee not such nor haue the cléere proofe and grounde of Scripture for them they will quickelye appeare in this their nakednesse and quickelye shewe their shame to all the worlde as doe the Papistes decrees whiche they set foorth so soone as euer they come to the touchstone to bée examined and prooued by the Scripture they molter away and resolue to vanitie Let our bretheren nowe a Gods name take this our booke of articles and whette all their wittes and with all their learned discourses set vppon it examine and trye it peecemeale thorowe and through euerye sentence woorde syllable and tytle in it if they finde anye thing contrarye to good and sounde reason yea contrarye too our dissonant from the Canonicall Scriptures then saye our Bishops practise Lordeship ouer our Fayth and set downe orders of Religion which must bee accepted of all men without eyther reason or testimonie of Scripture to proue them and no man permitted to shewe any reason or Scripture that inforceth his conscience to the contrary but onely to hang vppon the authority of Bishops But if they cannot finde anye thing in these decrees orders and Articles nor anye coulde finde it then nor coulde euer since nor euer shal be able and there was then in the conuocation libertye enough and hath euer bin since and still is being vsed in that lawefull and reuerent manner that is requisite for the treaty of such matters which yet coulde neuer nor I hope shall euer be conuinced of errour then let our bretheren for verye shame or rather for loue of truthe yeilde and reuoke these soule sclaunders on the Bishops and indeede on all the conuocation and on all the realme and Churche of Englande that hath established the allowance of these articles or rather on the Articles themselues which they sclaunder to bée decrees of Religion without eyther reason or testimonie of the Scripture to prooue them and that they onely hang vppon the authoritye of Bishops and so are méere doctrines of men and that they are Errors grosse and palpable Thus through the sides of the Bishops are these Articles and our Faith and Religion wounded by these our Bretheren as though not onelye our Bishops but all the Cleargie the realme the doctrine and all were as ill or woorse than the Papistes so farre hath this immoderate beate of their inconsiderate zeale inflamed their passions and patience
being out of that place And that where such preachers are not there can bee no publike prayers nor sacraments administred c. What one of these points and a number moe hath bin prooued by anie one cleere testimonie or necessarye consequent of the Scripture or by any one substantiall reason for the proofe of them and what else in effect is this than but to order all these thinges at their pleasures And when they take on with all the Bishops as though by their former industries and labours they their selues had not receaued this light of the Gospell which God bee praysed wée haue if wee can vse it thankfully or as though they were not by the Bishops made Ministers of the Gospell if they haue anye Ministerie at all thereof and be not meere lay men is not this euen as though the Gospell so far as the light of these controuersies commeth vnto and their Ministerie thereof sprang first from them or had come vnto them onely if not to our Bishops nor to anye of our conuocations nor to all the clergie of our Church of England but onely to them that set these thinges abroache and what now shall wée conclude on them as they do on the Bishops it sauoureth nothing so much as of popish tyranny whereof sauoreth this first to put backe the Princes supremacie in Ecclesiasticall causes till all their Eccl. tetrarchie be parted among them in such maner as wee haue alredy heard and then to pull downe all the dignities and authorities of Archebishops Bishops and all other Ecclesiasticall superiour Prelates And to set vp themselues euerye one to bée a full Bishoppe in his owne seuerall congregation what though not Lordeship in name but M. Bishop yet in rule and authoritye ouer all in his congregation to bée euen a Lordeship to suffer no superiour Pastor ouer him in his iurisdiction but eche one equall to the best and hée as though hée were in his terrytorie euen another newe little Pope sitting in his pontificalibus with his consistorie of gouernors as though it were a Colledge or Senate of a newe kinde of Cardinalles as the hingins that holde vp the dores of Ecclesiasticall regiment and discipline with a new mixte kinde of gouernors semi-secular and dimi-ecclesiasticall Seniors to sit by the themselues rounde aboute this Episcopall Pastor ouer ruling all the congregation yea whosoeuer were inhabiting in the parish Knight Lord Earle Duke Prince Queene King or Emperour they must all of them for all discipline and Ecclesiasticall regiment be ouer-ruled by him by these his Gouerning Elders sitting about him Of what sauoureth this Of dominion of Poperie of tyrannie of confusion of pride of ordering all things at their pleasures besides what dangers else or worse thaÌ yet we see not if our bishops shoulde thus retallie these thinges vnto our Bretheren woulde they not trowe you pay home the reckoning But as thoughe they were not yet on euen handes but that there were a greate oddes in this reckoning and as though the Bishoppes were not to bee accompted comparable nor for Learning Studye Iudgemente Zeale Example they were so woorthy of their authoritye as these our Bretheren are to haue this newe kind of Eccl. gouernment they obiect vnto the bishops their non sufficiencie in these thinges Whereas otherwise saye they it is well knowne they are not all of the best learned nor all of the longest study nor all of the soundest Iudgement nor all of the greatest zeale nor all of the best Example and therefore not meetest to be the onelye determiners in Ecclesiasticall matters to the preiudice of the whole Synode As for this conclusion wee shall come to it in his turne This comparison in the antecedent is somewhat odious to vpbraide to the Bishoppes that they are not all of the best in these thinges as though there were some other in the Synode better heerein than they Belike they meane those diuerse godlye and learned Preachers that they sayde before before offered to speakâ or else some other of themselues that they woulde haue to bee also of the Synode For although it were a pretie pollicie to commit vs together among our selues with an emulation agaynste our bishops as not so learned c. as they would haue vs of the Conuocation house thinke our selues to bée yet they lightly giue not this to âây of vs to be counted eyther learned or studious or sounde in iudgement or of greate zeale or of best example But they oftentimes commende themselues for all these thinges to bée godlie wise graue and zealous men they are those that Preache moste diligentlye praye most feruentlye and minister the Sacramentes moste reuerently they are the faithfull Ministers that seeke the Churches reformation and still looke vp to the top of euery leafe and there hangeth vp this Iuie Garland to tolle on the reader A Learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment As for our Bishops tush for them it is well knowne they are not all of the best learned nor all of the longest studie nor all of the greatest zeale nor all of the best example I praye you bretheren of what sauoureth this Surely it sauoureth not all of the best learning neyther in my iudgement if not rather of that learning whereof Sainct Paule sayth scientia inflat Well howe vnsounde soeuer they shall accounte my simple Iudgement woulde God their learning sauoured a little more of lowlie humility and of Christian charitie than it doth to thinke better of other their brethren in these qualities namely of their betters than of them selues And yet if one shall examine these qualities particularly what cause haue they to vpbrayde their Learning to the Bishops Iwisse they may easilie enter comparison with many of these our Bretheren And if they shoulde all bée measured by this Learned discourse might not these wordes returne to their Maisters that neyther they are all of the best learning except they haue better learning that they keepe yet in store for an after reckoning And as for long studie in the moste of them there néede no long studie for an aunswere All the worlde may see that in the yeares of the studentes do not their selues in their preface confesse If any shal obiect that the graue authority of Archbishops Bishops shall receaue a checke whilste they are brought to deale with those whom they iudge few yong vnlearned not comparable to themselues but now they dare compare both in long studie in learning too with the B. and giue the check too as yong as they be yea in their opinion to giue theÌ check-mate and that with a pawne But what sayd they there to this obiection did they not say let vs graunt the greate difference which they make of yeares and learning yet the speeche of Elihu giueth them sufficient aunswere that this vnderstanding is not tyed to such outwarde respectes but to the reuelation of Gods spirite Here as it were
any more than the very Papistes and the Pope graunteth and whether euen this also doe not touch these learned discoursers Of the authoritie and dealing of the auncient Princes besore Christes comming and of the Christian Princes since his comming Of our Bretherens reuerence to the auncient Christian Princes in the Romaine Empyre and in the Kingdoms of France Spayne and of this our Britanie Of the Emperours authoritie dealings in Ecclesiasticall matters in the greatest Councels and of their Ecclesiasticall sanctions Of the French Kings authoritie and dealing in the same Of the authoritie and dealings of the Kings in Spayne Of the authoritie and dealing of the Kings in England and of tâe Ecclesiasticall lawes of the auncient Saxon Kings Of the Princes dealing herein by the aduice of their learned Clergie and whether their aduice inferre their sole superiour authoritie Of the Princes seruice of God their father and seruing the coÌmoditie of the Church their mother Of the testimonies of Esa 49.23 Psalm 2.11 1. Tim. 2.2 and of the Papistes and our Bretherens applying the same How farre the endes and benefites of a Prince doe stretch and how the Prince is both a childe and yet withall a foster father or Nurse vnto the Church All which being declared for the authoritie of the Prince our Bretheren make their Epilogus of all this learned discourse First concerning their owne perswasion for this prescribed forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernment to bee agreeable to Gods word and coÌsenting to the example of the Primitiue Church And of their auouching that they be able so to proue it and of their promise that when occasion shall serue they will proue it so to bee Of their solemne protestation why in the meane tyme they set foorth this learned discourse and what they seeke herein And of the true way to reformation And of their mouing them that be in authoritie to put this prescribed forme in practise And of their offering vp their bookes hereof vnto the Parliament And how this doing is cleane contrary to the chiefest positions in this learned discourse And of renewing agayne these controuersies by disputation And of the euent of this forme if it should be embraced And of their desire that either this forme prescribed or if not this yet the like may be receiued and how vncerteyne this desire of theirs is and how we may or may not see and iudge what is the vttermost of their desires herein Of their sclaunders of the present state and that wee are the aduersaries of Gods trueth and how wee be hinderers of their proceeding to reformation And of this learned discourse to be their publike testimoniall to the present age and that the posteritie may know that the trueth in this tyme was not vnknowne nor vntestified concerning the right regiment of the Church and whether this can be knowne hereby yea or no. Of their disordered speeches agaynst our regiment of the Church and whether it be receiued of the most parte of Poperie and how this redoundeth on our Bretheren How they accuse theirs and our godly fathers of neglecting in this poynt for deliuering our Ecclesiasticall regiment to their children without contradiction and how preiudiciall they complayne that this is vnto them Last of all of their conclusion by prayer to God for the pacification of these matters AND now that we haue set forth the whole Ecclesiasticall Ministerie according to the word of God with all the dueties and authorities that perteyneth vnto it the place requireth that wee should also intreate of the authoritie of the ciuill Magistrate in matters Ecclesiasticall THankes bee giuen to God that now at length our Bretheren here confesse for I hope they say it not for a vaunt that they haue set foorth the whole Ecclesiasticall Ministerie with all the dueties and authorities that perteyne vnto it So that if now either they themselues or any other among them adde any thing or alter any thing of the dueties or of the authoritie of the Ecclesiastical Ministerie then is either this or that conuinced not to bee the whole Ecclesiasticall ministerie nor all the dueties and authorities that perteyne vnto it as here they say this is But we haue seene in perusing this their learned discourse in how many things and those of moment materially perteyning to the Ecclesiasticall ministerie and to the dueties and authorities of the same how they haue often altered and varied one from another and runne into playne contradictions besides a number of other and other manner of poyntes that I could gather and set downe and GOD willing shall at large if our Bretheren shall call for them onely now I note a fewe of those that this learned discourse hath led me vnto And therefore either their other discourses or this their learned discourse is not altogether as here they say according to the word of God And now sith that they haue discoursed and set foorth the whole and all that they could or would for their Ecclesiasticall ministerie and all the dueties and authorities perteyning vnto it I beseech thee which art the Protestant reader hereof in the feare of God bearing thy selfe euen indifferently as to those that on either parte though dissenting in these matters the one from the other yet in the substance of Religion and vnitie of faith are both of vs thy deare and true Bretheren in Christ because wee on either hand may fauour too much our owne parties and be caried away in the heate of our disputes that thou wilt vouchsafe so neere as God shall giue thee grace and an vnderstanding heart to bee a true Iudge and an vpright vmpeere betweene all them God knowes who and how many that call them selues all the faithfull ministers that seeke for the discipline and reformation of the Church of England on the one partie and euen poore myne owne selfe God wotte in this action on the other partie and betweene their learned discourse as they intitle it of Ecclesiasticall gouernment and my vnlearned as I confesse and course aunswere thereunto setting aside for the whyle all fauour and partialitie which disturbe a cleere iudgement euen as GOD shall helpe thee and be thy true Iudge and so I commit and commend it to Gods good speeding and to thy indifferent reading weighing and iudging of it And here now when our Bretheren haue thus to the full discoursed on the whole Ecclesiasticall ministerie and all the dueties and authorities that perteyne vnto it at length they begin to finde some leisure to bethink themselues of the Christian Prince and to giue him yet some remaynder at least in the last lapping vp of all this learned discourse So that if the Christian Princes haue not the blessing before hande so plentifully powred foorth as vppon Iacob to haue the dewe of heauen and fatnesse of the earth and to bee Lordes ouer their Bretheren and honoured of their mothers children yet as one borne out of tyme as
they say by three hundred yeeres and comming later they shall not yet bee cleane forgotten but shall haue at least a portion of Esaus blessing so farre foorth that they shall haue also a dwelling place in the fatnesse of the earth and somewhat also of the dewe from heauen aboue Yet they shall haue their liuing by the sworde but they must serue their Brothers till they get the maystrie and breake their Brothers yoake from their neckes And if they hold not themselues content with this blessing let them goe further and fare worse they get no more heere For their Bretheren haue come before them and gotten away the blessinges from them All the whole gouernment of Ecclesiasticall matters is giuen and parted into fower partes and is made a fayre tetrarchie of Doctor the Pastor the Gouernour and the Deacon these fower haue forestalled in their seuerall shares and Iurisdiction the gouernement and ordering of all Ecclesiasticall matters But yet since there is a fifte parte of something left and reserued for the Christian Prince let vs see what that portion is and how our Bretheren will also ordeyne and dispose thereof And now saye they that wee haue set foorth the whole Ecclesiasticall ministerie c. The place requireth that wee should also intreate of the authoritie of the Ciuill Magistrate in matters Ecclesiasticall The place required this long before But let vs now take it while it is offered least no place at all be left to the Christian Princes Of the title of the Princes supremacie if it be truely vnderstood we moue no controuersie but that it doth properly apperteyne to the ciuill Magistrate to bee the highest gouernour of all persons within his dominion so that the soueraigne Empyre of GOD bee kept whole If the authoritie of the Christian princes supremacie be good the title expressing the same authoritie is good also And so vise versa if the title be good the authoritie of the princes supremacie is likewise good But what meane they by this caution that they say of the title of the Princes supremacie if it be rightly vnderstood For if they denie the vnderstanding of it as her Maiestie her predecessors and the Parliament and the whole Realmes and Churches both of England and of Ireland do vnderstand it then do they flatly deny that supremacie which her Maiestie claimeth and hath and that both her Predecessors her Maiesties most renowmed Father claimed recouered and had and which also her Maiesties most godly Brother claymed and had and that the Parliament and the whole Realmes Churches of England and Ireland doe owe acknowledge and yéeld vnto her Maiestie as they did before to her foresaide most noble predecessors And how then do they mooue no controuersie of it Which to call in question considering withall besides the manifest right in the law of God the daunger of the penall lawes of this Realme prouided by statute were very dangerous for theÌ to do besides the euill offence and example to the Papists that would gladly lie in the wind for such aduantage that some of the Protestants themselues should now beginne to moue controuersies first of the title and then of the authoritie of the christian Princes supremacie in Eccl. matters and then of the vnderstanding of it as though it had bin all this while not rightly vnderstood or but ambiguously which is so cleare both in the matter it self by the statutes thereon by diuerse that haue written set forth the same plainly against the wrangling Papists and by open declaratioÌs in arraignments of those that haue worthily suffred for their obstinate deniall of the same that almost no controuersie is made more cleare plaine than is the vnderstanding therof And do our Br. come in now at length after all their putting backe the speaking of it with granting to it with this exception If it be rightly vnderstood Then I perceaue they moue controuersie also of it for the right vnderstanding thereof Well what then For we would not haue them yéeld to it otherwise If it be rightly vnderstood say they we moue no controuersie of it but that it doth properly appertaine to the ciuill Magistrate to be the highest gouernor of all persons within his dominion so that the soueraigne Empire of God be kept whole This is a verie good vnderstanding of yâ caueat so that the soueraigne Empire of God be kept whole God forbid that should be violated inuaded or any iot thereof diminished by the Prince Neither doth her Ma. or did her most worthy father or brother take vpon them or we acknowledg any other supreme gouernment And therefore for our Brethr. her Ma. loyall subiectes to cast forth such exceptions vnnecessarily and where no cause is thereby although to moue no controuersie yet to ingender suspition that her Maiesty her Father and her Brother claymed the title of supremacy otherwise than that the soueraigne Empire of God might be kept whole this being one of the chiefest causes of their and her claime euen that the soueraigne Empire of God might be kept whole or that we do otherwise yéeld to any supremacy of the Prince this is neither here in them or in any other dutifully done but iniurious both to her Maiesty and to all her obedient subâects that do yéeld it But since they will néedes héere make this exception protesting that they moue no question of the title of the Princes supremacy if it be rightly vnderstood and that this right vnderstanding is onely this so that the soueraigne Empire of God be kept whole go to then and let vs also haue this rightly vnderstood withall so that none of all these four Tetrarcks Doctor Pastor Gouernor nor Deacon for whome they contend be vnderstood to be God nor their Empire for Gods Empire If they say this can not well be graunted bycause though they be not God personally nor so their Empire Gods Empire yet they be God representatiuely as Gods Ministers and deputies ouer his houshold and so their Empire or authoritie is Gods Empire bycause it is Gods ordinance and therefore Gods Empire is still by them kept whole doth not all this fitte the Prince also are not Princes in that representatiue sense called Gods as Dauid sayth Psalme 82. God standeth in the assembly of Gods and iudgeth among Gods and I sayd ye are Gods and so God himselfe sayd to Moses concerning Aaron He shall be as thy mouth and thou shalt be to him as God Exod. 4. ver 16. and Rom. 13. It is sayd of the Prince he is Gods minister and his power is the ordinance of God But our Brethren haue yet another restraint for they will graunt all this in manner aforesaid howbeit they go no further héere than for the persons for which they will moue no controuersie but that it doth properly apperteyne to the ciuill Magistrate to be the highest Gouernor of all persons within his
both the best and best learned of them haue consulted vppon and consented vnto haue agreed vpon and decreed also the same lawes that yet it shall not be lawfull to her Maiestie bycause of the dissent of a few other whome she knoweth not to be her Pastors to make any lawes at all of Ecclesiasticall matters or to looke to the reformation of religion why might not the Papists vse this reason as well as our Brethren to debarre her Maiesties right and authoritie héerein yea did not they vse the selfe-same reason pleading that they were the Pastors of the Realme and so her Maiesties Pastors also and that she could not looke to the reformation of Religion nor make lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall contrarie to their knowledge and consenting for at her Maiesties first entrie into her raigne as she carefully looked before all other things to the reformation of Religion and to make godly lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters so the Popish Pastors which then were most in number and greatest in power and were in dutie her Pastors also if they had perfourmed their dutie dutifully which they did not neyther can we denie but that they or many of them were learned also if they had had grace aunswerable to learning and had submitted their learning to truth and not deteyned others in blindnesse of ignorance to mainteine their errors was it not lawfull therefore vnto her Maiestie to looke to the reformation of religion and to make lawes of matters Ecclesiasticall bycause it was contrarie to their acknowledging and to their consenting yes she perfourmed all this mawger their withstanding and she did well yea most excellent well in her so doing not yet as the Papists cried out and still crie that she did contrarie to the knowledge of her learned Pastors for they accounted none to be learned Pastors nor at all to be Pastors but themselues But her Maiestie did these things with the consent of those that were both Pastors and her Pastors too and her learned Pastors and euen by learning it was tried and by the better learning of her better learned Pastors vicit veritas the truth had the victorie and Poperie was confounded And so her Maiestie made her lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters and reformation of Religion with the consent of her learned Pastors and established them with the approbation and authoritie of all the states of the Realme and Church of England and hath God be praysed happily continued till now of late as though we had not inough to do with the continuall maligning sclaunders and practises of the Popish Pastors and their adherents we fall out vnhappily among our selues and as her Maiesties godly and learned Pastors ioyned then with her Maiestie against the Popish Pastors in displacing them with all their errors and superstitious Ecclesiasticall lawes and reformed religion and made these lawes Ecclesiasticall that are now as yet in force so a new kinde of Pastors begin a new stur and are weary of these Ecclesiasticall lawes and of this reformation and of all these Pastors calling themselues the faithfull Ministers that seeke the reformation of the Church of England and would trie these matters againe by learning and so among other theyr bookes writings thereon haue now at length set forth to all the realme this learned discourse of Ecclesiasticall gouernment and her Maiestie must now reuoke all the reformation and Ecclesiasticall lawes that she hath then and since made with her learned Pastors that then were and begin afresh both to turne out all those Pastors for no right ordeyned Pastors and to make new lawes of Ecclesiasticall matters and a new reformation with their consents that say they be now her learned Pastors and on these conditions they wil admit her title of supremacy and her authority to do these things or else not If her Maiesty now shall heare of this what may she thinke thereon how may she comfort her selfe and warrant her actions in all things that she hath done already for if they were well done they may well continue if they may not well continue but must be vndone it is an argument they were not well done But her Maiesty though this be no small grief vnto her to haue all her doings thus ript vp againe by her owne subiects and professors of the same Gospell that she professeth and though it be no small triumph to the aduersaries of the Gospell and argument for them to descant vpon against her Maiestie and against both our Brethren and vs and all true Protestants yet let not her most excellent Maiesty be disinayed hereat though indéede it be a great corsie but when her Maiesty looketh on the grounds of the matter and not on the vnthankfulnes and mutabilitie of men and lifteth vp her eyes to heauen from whence commeth her saluation how mightely God hath blessed and defended her and prospered these things vnder her hands her Maiesty shall receyue a greater comfort and confirmation against all the treasonable practises of those her deadly aduersaries of the one partie and all the dangerous innouations of these her ouer-zealous subiects on the other party and represse them both in iustice and mercie with safe continuance and good successe God willing of all her Maiesties reformation and lawes that she hath made of Ecclesiasticall matters hetherto with the knowledge and consent of those that then were or yet are her learned Pastors And except these our new Pastors that would be haue any better learning not yet reuealed than is conteyned in this their learned discourse the learned Pastors that are now in place and in Pastorall authoritie will by Gods grace maynteyne and defende by truth and sound learning their authorities and the Ecclesiasticall lawes that her Maiesty hath made with their knowledge consents welynough I warrant them And let our Brethren to begin withall looke to this point better For sith they graunt it is her Maiesties authoritie to make Lawes of Eccl. matters so that she take from the Pastor none of these 3. offices Preaching Ministring the Sacraments nor the Eccl. Gouernment from them the Queenes Maiestie hauing made her Lawes without doing any of these thrée thinges nor hauing taken from the Pastor the thirde any more then the two first Let them looke to it both how they disobey the Lawes she hath made and how they cast foorth such suspitious sclaunders on her Maiestie as though in making her Lawes she did take the Pastors Ecclesiasticall gouernment from him By this it appeareth howe farre it is lawfull for Princes to intermeddle with causes Ecclesiasticall namely that it is the cheefest point of their duty to haue speciall regard that God may be glorified in their dominion and therefore they ought to make ciuill Lawes to binde the people vnto the Confession of the true fayth and the right administring and receiuing of the sacraments and to all Ecclesiasticall orders that they being instructed by the worde of God through the
and aduise of them that be learned in those matters Neither any good reason nor any ordinaunce of God plaine or not playne in the Scriptures willeth any person taking such aduise leaste of all willeth the Prince on that aduise giuen or taken to thinke that because hee shoulde do nothing without their aduise that he can do nothing without their authority Neither is there any reason or ordinaunce of God in the Scriptures that any which are but aduisers to the prince shoulde fall from aduising him so to incroche vpon him And if I were worthy to aduise princes I would aduise them to take good aduisement howe they aduised themselues by such aduisers and as I am thus aduised mee thinketh it reason And if all princes by heathen wise mens iudgements are so rulers that they are seruantes of the Lawes and of the common wealth why shoulde it bee accounted for any dishonour vnto princes to bee obedient to the Lawes of God their Father and to serue to the commoditie of the Church their Mother It is a greater honour to bee the Sonne of God and the Childe of the Church than to bee a Monarke of all the earth All princes I graunt are such seruauntes of the common wealth not onely by Heathen wise mens iudgementes hut also by all Christian wise mens iudgements too that neuerthelesse their supreme authority in gouerning of the common wealth is not one whit diminished by that seruice And as for their seruice to the Lawes which Lawes either they haue made them selues or were made Lawes before they were made rulers serueth I graunt also to the maintenaunce of those Lawes and to the punishment of the impugners of them howbeit this hindreth not but that princes haue another ruling and not seruing seruice or as wee may well terme it a seruing rule and gouernment besides the conseruing of the Lawes euen to make Lawes as our Brethren haue before confessed And as Saint Augustine excellently well doth say in his 48. epistle ad Vincentium And in his 50. Epistle ad Bonifacium as we haue séene at large before And in his fift Booke De ciuit Dei cap. 24. Hee reckoneth this seruice among the princes cheefest vertues hee sayth that they make their power which they haue to bee a seruaunt vnto the Maiestie of God moste largely to spreade abroad his seruice And of this seruice as Eusebius reporteth in the seconde Booke of Constantines life doth Constantine glory saying I reclaymed mankinde beeing instructed by my seruice or ministery to the religion of the holye Lawe and I caused that the moste blessed fayth shoulde more and more growe vnder a better ruler For I woulde not be vnthankfull especially to neglect my principall seruice which is the thankes that I owe euen of duetie Sith therefore the princes seruice is so high and principall a seruice stretching to the making of Eccl. Lawes and to all these matters which seruice as Saint Augustine sayth Epistola 50. None can doe but princes This seruice is no debarre but rather an aduauncement and prerogatiue of the princes supreme authority in these matters Wee doe not therefore accounte it anie dishonour vnto princes to bee obedient to the Lawes of GOD the Father and serue to the commoditie of the Church their Mother It is rather the greatest honour that in this Worlde and in their royall estate they canne attaine vnto Neyther can any of their subiects Clergie or other compare with them in the supreme degree of that authoritie that onelye Christian princes haue heerein But rather our Brethren woulde abase this authoritie with telling princes they must account no dishonour to obeye the lawes of GOD their Father and serue to the commoditie of the Churche their Mother what lawes of God the Father haue they as yet alleaged either for this matter or for any of their tetrarches that inferre anye of these new Lawes which they all without and besides the authoritie of a prince woulde presse both vpon the prince and vs Or what one thing that beeing better considered serueth to the commoditie of the Churche their and our Mother but rather to the greate disquieting of her in the calme harbour God bee thanked heere in Englande and to the discrediting of her name to all other Churches and peoples rounde about vs and to the great hazarde of her estate amongst vs And is this the way to serue her commoditie If not rather to serue their owne turnes and humors both to the great dishonour of God our father and to the no little damage of the Church our mother besides the dishonour and disobedience of our so gratious Prince with the trouble and endaungering of all the whole Realme But let our Brethren take good héede that they abuse not Princes thus vnder these high titles of God their Father and of the Churche their mother for euen with these termes did the Papistes deceaue Princes and all the world When they sought their owne honour or profite then they alwayes pretended the honouring of God their father and seruing the commoditie of the Church their mother in whose names as Gods and the Churches deputies they tooke on them selues to be honored and their owne commoditie serued both of all Princes and of all people as much if not much more than eyther their father or their mother It is a greater honor say they to be the sonne of God and the child of the Church than to be a Monarke of all the earth And so it is indeede who denieth it and this is also as one of the papists blearing the eyes of princes But any man woman or child neuer so pore or priuate may by the grace of God be so well ynough though he haue no publike auth at all But can not a man be a Monarch though not of al the earth but in his owne dominions be also the Sonne of God and child of the Church and yet with all in his owne Dominions be the supreme gouernor ouer all persons in all matters and causes eccl so wel as temporall Of this honourable subiection to God and his Church Esay prophesieth Chapter 49.23 Kings shall be thy nourssing Fathers and Queenes shall bee thy Nourses They shall worship thee with their faces towards the earth and licke the dust of thy feete and thou shalt knowe that I am the Lorde The Prophet meaneth that Kinges and Queenes shall be so carefull for the preseruation of the Churche that they shall thinke no seruice too base for them so they maye profite the Churche of Christe withall Vnto this honorable subiection the holie ghost exhorteth Princes in the second Psalme after that they haue tried that they preuayle nothing in striuing against the kingdome of Christe Bee nowe therefore wise O yee Kinges bee learned that iudge the earth serue the Lorde with feare and reioyce to him with trembling declaring that it is a ioyfull
perswaded and more mislike them when they view and consider better of the matters of the groundes of the prooues and of the drifts thereof But if they meane this through perswasion to be of them onely that doe openly professe their discontentment and are recusants and accusants of thâ gouernment established in Ecclesiasticall matters and that speake or write agaynst it and haue set out other bookes or that haue complâtted themselues together in deuising and setting foorth this fourme of reformation which they call a learned discourse and a declaration of all the faithfull Ministers c. which who they are and what number they be of God knowes I know not yet this I know and it is apparant that diuers of them are so farre from being throughly perswaded in the forme here set foorth that almost none of their writings bookes in many poynts and some of those very materiall are agreeable either one with another or with this forme as by conference of them will easily appeare And some of their diuers opinions and cleane contrary positions we haue here seene as occasion hath serued to obserue the same Yea we haue séene how their owne selues oppugne their owne selues with diuers and contrary assertions in this learned discourse And then by this title of their forme that it is the desires of all the faithfull Ministers that seeke for the discipline reformatioÌ of the Church of England all those different froÌ these seeke a wrong discipline reformatioÌ are vnfaithfull Ministers call their own faithfulnesse seeking in question too But I verely thinke God forgiue me if I thinke amisse where this learned discourse is set foâth in the name of all the faithfull Ministers that desire seeke for the reformatioÌ of the Church of England if they would declare their names who they bee and that they were asked their voyces by scrutinie or might deliuer the same as fréely as they their selues would wish our scrutators wheÌ they had nuÌbred al their voyces would returne vs a fayre Non placet If they would not rather many of them euen openly disclayme their coÌsent for their parts professe that this forme is none of their forme nor they desire nor seeke for many of these straunge and daungerous matters that in this learned discourse are prescribed Yea whosoeuer were the writers hereof in the names of all the faithfull Ministers me thinketh they began euen here somewhat to sâagger and dare not in playne wordes for a round conclusion say this forme is plat and playne set downe and prescribed or commaunded in the word of God and that they are throughly so perswaded No they haue yet more grace than so they pronounce their words more warylie saying it is agreeable to the word of God Howbeit they deale not well in this cunning coÌueyance of their words that vnder the quarter sayle of agreeable will so compasse the winde till they set vp full sayle and thrust it vpon vs not onely as agreeable but as flatly commaunded and prescribed For if it prescribe not but beâ onely agreeable as here they say then are not we of any such necessitie bound thereto but that wee may keepe this forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernment that is alreadie established well enough except our Bretheren can proue it to bee disagreeable Yea so disagreeable that it be repugnant to the word of God which as yet they haue not withall their heauing and shouing bene able to doe And yet if they could prooue it to bee disagreeable this inforceth no necessitie of their forme no though we should also admit that it were agreeable to the word of God which neither yet haue they bene able to doe withall their éeching and wringing of Gods word to prooue it But for all this they say they are able to prooue that their forme of reformation here set forth is consenting with the example of the Primitiue Church Indéede they sayd not so much before for the agreeablenes of this forme to the worde of God that they were able to proue it but onely that they were throughly perswaded it is agreeable But for all their perswasion we haue thankes be to God plainly seene it proued that it is much disagreable froÌ the word of God euen in euery of the persons of their Tetrarchie and in many other great and important poynts and not onely disagreeable but contrary But now when they come from the word of GOD to the Primitiue Church where they begin to take vppon them somewhat more boldly that they are able to proue what now are they able to proue any rule commaundement or prescription of this forme No. But say they we are able to proue it to be consenting with the example of the Primitiue Church What doe they passe cleane ouer all rule commaundement and prescription as a matter that they dare not so much as touch or looke after but leape at the first choppe into example Or doth euery example in the Primitiue Church make a prescription or is equiualent with a rule or commaundement or if it doe not how doth it binde vs especially vnderstanding the example of the Primitiue Church so as here they doe in a seperate sence from that that is conteyned in the Scripture for so I take it that they ment the scripture only wheÌ they spake before of the word of God and that now by yâ example of the Primitiue Church they meane the tyme immediatly succéeding that time that is expressed in the word of God And yet though they did coÌprehend in the name of the Primitiue Church the tyme also expressed in the word of God or any example in the word of God they should hardly vrge a rule or prescriptioÌ of some one exaÌple if they haue nothing els but only some such exaÌple for it Wel might an exaÌple be brought for an instance of the practise of some one poynt or matter set foorth in this forme but what would that serue for any exaÌple of all the poynts matters that they haue set forth in this forme Can they prooue a general practise of all these or of any one âoint vpon which they haue discoursed that the exaÌple thereof was vsed vniuersally and in continuall practise in the Primitiue Church Understand the Primitiue Church how they please they haue not yet shewed vs any such example No in very deede not any one example that is aunswerable to this their prescribed forme Yes say they wee are able to proue this forme to be consenting to the example of the Primitiue Church Consenting what meane they by that So they told vs before of being agreeable to the word of God and doe they now tell vs of consenting to the example of the Primitiue Church Why doe they now begin so sparingly to mince their termes and as it were by ounces thus warily to way their words in the ending of this their learned discourse
their promise bee perfourmed when they shal hereafter haue occasion in the meane tyme to consider better of this their learned discourse and of this though not comparing in learning but pleading for trueth my well meaning aunswer thereunto Our Bretheren hauing now made this repetition what they haue done or rather would haue done and giuen vs this promise what they are intending hereafter to doe herevpon they proceede to a solemne protestation of the causes that moued them to set forth this learned discourse Therefore wee protest before the liuing God and his holy Angelles and before the Lord Iesus Christ that shall come to iudge the quicke and the dead and before the Queenes maiestie our most gracious soueraigne and the whole assemblie of all estates of this Realme that as the whole world may playnlie see wee seeke hereby not our owne profite case nor aduauncement but only the glorie of God and the profite of his Church so by this present writing wee discharge our conscience according to our dutie which is to shewe vnto all men the true way of reformation and to mooue them that haue authoritie to put it in practise and to seeke by all lawfull and ordinarie meanes that it may take place that if it may please GOD to giue it good successe at this tyme to bee imbraced wee maye fulfill the rest of our course with ioye The maner of our Bretherens protestation I would haue liked a great deale better to haue had our Lord Iesus Christ being also himselfe the liuing God one and coequall with the father set before his holie Angels be they neuer so holie But now as they protest before the liuing God our heauenly father and before the Lord Iesus Christ his sonne our sauiour that shall come to iudge the quicke and the dead and before his holie Angels and before the Queenes Maiestie our most gracious Soueraigne and before the whole assemblie of all estates of this Realme meaning the high Court of Parliament so howsoeuer they may deceiue mortall creatures God is not mocked as the Apostle sayth And therefore our Bretheren haue to take great heede what they haue here protested in the name of God whereof sayth Dauid Psal. 111. Holie and fearefull is his name if they mynde not as seriously and religiously the matter as they haue thus solemnelie protested the name I speake this which I am hartilie sorie to speake seeing this great ouerzealousnes of our Bretheren that in their earnestnes if they meane earnest or els it is a great deale worse auowe these high speeches in the name of God of Angels and of men that they can neuer iustifie before either God or Angelles or before men For since they haue made this great and terrible protestation in the name of them all and which all All those faithfull ministers that haue and doe seeke for the discipline and reformation of the Church of England and that this is a briefe and playne declaration of the desires of all those that seeke for these things which they haue here set downe in this learned discourse whatsoeuer they seeke hereby this protestation is very daungerous All penned not this learned discourse and perhaps all haue not seene it yea peraduenture it is so little the desires of all that some may mislike many things or some thing in it Yea I my selfe haue shewed it vnto some that are euen of the most earnest of them who at the first view haue liked this booke and called it indeede a learned discourse and yet when I haue shewed them some of the principles therein they haue vpon better conference and aduisement so misliked them that they haue vtterly protested that whosoeuer were the compilers of it or consenters to it both they and many others thinke their names abused accounting them-selues to bee no lesse of the number of those faithfull ministers that haue and doe seeke for the discipline and reformation of the Church of England than any of these learned discoursers reckon themselues to be and yet they renounce the desire of these things But what neede wee alleadge hereto the priuate speeches of any of our Bretheren Vanescunt voces litera scripta manet See and conferre our Bretherens writings or looke but on those that by occasion haue here fallen out to be noted in the aunswer to this learned discourse in how many and that no small things diuers of our Bretheren oppose themselues to the desires that here these learned discoursers doe seeke for Yea I beléeue that if all and âuery of our Bretheren which would clayme interest in the title of this discourse but not in the matter of this discourse would freely lay downe all their seuerall desires and the thing that euery one of them doth indeed seeke for their desires and seekings would be so variable and repugnant in many vnportant matters that wee should neither knowe any certentie what they would agree vpon to desire nor bee able to determine what wee might graunt And how then in this confusion and contrarieties of their desiring and seeking can any one man or a number of them that agree vppon this forme here set foorth if indeede they had agreed and were not also in many things as wee haue seene cleane contrary to their owne selues euen in this learned discourse make this solemne protestation not onely for him or for them-selues but for a number of other yea for all other among them that seeke or seeke not this or that And therefore in my poore iudgement and as one that wisheth their good vnfeynedly this solemne and dreadfull protestation might better haue bene spared or protested in some other more warie maner As right now talking of agreeable and consenting they were warie enough how they tempered and set their wordes and so much more when here they protested on this wise stoode it them vpon to haue added at least so farre as they knowe or so farre as they are perswaded beleeue or hope and not so resolutely to affirme that which neither they nor any but God doth knowe who is the only searcher of each mans heart and onely knoweth whatsoeuer they pretend what indeede they seeke for and desire But yet our Bretheren thought perhaps that this solemne protestation would doe well here to mooue the readers hearts at the closing vp of all the matter and indeede it mooued myne and that not a little to see them after such long daliance all the while of this their learned discoursing thus solemnely in the end to appeale to God for witnesse And yet for some parte of the matter and for some parte of the men also I for my parte will beleeue them on their bare worde without this deepe protesting though all the whole world may not playnlie see it nor will beleeue it for all this protestation that they seeke hereby not their owne profite ease nor aduancement for if they should they
say wee are not able so much as to knowe them No nor yet their owne Consistorie gouernors able to knowe them but onely the teachers and preachers of the same to all others And what will they then allowe to vs If the Parliament heare this man speake thus may they not thinke that man speaketh reasons and that there was little reason in troubling them continually with those matters in the Parliament house whereof they may not according to the libertie of that most honorable assemblie speake their mynds in reuerent maner pro contra freely and no man debarred of his speech or iudgement or els the house would better aduise themselues how they permitted such fellowes to come among them or to bring in such billes or bookes among them of which they must be restrained of their libertie both of speech and iudgement Yea what if now another waxing bolder in the Parliament house would tell these faithfull ministers that the matters conteyned in this learned discourse being Ecclesiasticall matters were to be consulted vpon and determined by those that were the Bishops Pastors of the Realme and Church of England and that they had a Conuocation Synodall assemblie among themselues and that they must go to them and be tryed by theÌ and bee as well content to submit themselues to the determination of the Bishops and Pastors lawfully and orderly there assembled as they would to haue it tryed in the ParliameÌt if they were all such Eccl. persons as were the other And that if they would flee froÌ their owne coate Eccl. company to such as were but ciuill and politick persons saue that they were ChristiaÌs as other of the people were they should giue an ill example preiudice their matters and make themselues and their bookes to be more mistrusted as not daring to abide the censure of the chifest professors of those matters Tractent fabrilia fabri Ecclesiasticall matters to be tryed by Ecclesiasticall persons And that this is according to their owne âositions For who should be able to knowe at least wise who ought better to knowe what order comelinesse and edification requireth according to Gods worde than they that be teachers and preachers of the same vnto all others For it is absurd that they should be taught by such in these small things and much lesse in greater things as ought to learne the trueth of them in all matters And therfore go to theÌ and let theÌ determine those controuersies If our Bretheren shall heare this tale and their owne words thus duelie returned on themselues may they not then thinke they haue well helped themselues by putting vp these matters to the Parliament And if the Parliament should aunswer them thus should they not aunswer theÌ aright But if now they had rather reuoke some of their positions giue the ParliameÌt authority to deale herein than to haue them be determined by the Bishops what on the other side would they haue the Parliament do without the authoritie of the Prince Yea how chaunce they put not vp their bookes writings first to her Maiestie mooue her first for if they accounted her Maiestie indeed the supreme gouernor of all persons in al her dominions in all causes so wel Eccl. as temporall would they haue the Parliament decree those things without her Maiestie Or the Parliament wherof her Maiestie is the supreme gouernor to determine these things without any debating of them Or if they should be debated vpoÌ who should rather do it theÌ the Clergie And haue not al that haue bin assembled together alreadie both the Bishops the whole Conuocation consulted debated and determined alreadie on the matter And if they would haue her Maiestie the Parliament to deale further therein haue they not done that also Hath not her Maiestie ratefied and authorized al their articles that the Conuocation agreed vpon And hath not the whole Parliament also approued allowed so ratefied and confirmed al the Communion booke besides the acknowledgement of her Maiesties supremacie all the articles agréed and decréed vpon all or the most or chéefest of the lawes and orders Eccl. now standing in force and established amongst vs And would they haue them reuoke cancell all that they haue doone in these matters or what else would they haue the Parliament herein to doo If they offer to dispute of these matters either before the whole Parliament or before anie by the Parliament deputed to heare the disputation betwéene vs of these controuersies doo they hope to dispute better and with more deliberat iudgement of that they shall saie ex tempore than that they haue with aduisement written or can write thereon or that we can dispute woorse or not so well as they persuade themselues they can Or doo they thinke as Aeschines said Quid si ipsam belluam andissetis they shall better persuade and mooue the hearers of them more by their liuelie spéeches than by their learned writings and so win it that waies Verelie wée refuse no waie what it shall please our most gratious souereigne and hir most honorable counsell or the high court of Parliament to appoint if that would serue the turne for anie further triall of renewing neuer so often these matters by disputing and calling them in question againe and againe for God be praised in so good a cause we néed not feare the euent they that could so win the garland let them weare it But we maie easilie sée before the disputation shall begin that all this would not serue their turne in these controuersies which the word of God hath not expreslie decided but in generalitie referred to these thrée heads comlinesse order aedification Who shall iudge and determine of our disputation they haue before hand debarred the prince and all that are not teachers and preachers and both the parties in controuersie are teachers and preachers and they saie it were no reason that we being the parties in controuersie on the one side though we be teachers and preachers should be determiners iudges what is comlinesse order and edifieng in these things and maie not we saie the same to them againe that they being also parties in controuersie on the other side though they be teachers and preachers it is no reason that they should be determiners and iudges what is comlinesse order and aedifieng in these things and when shall then these matters be iudged and determined Except we would yéeld to them or they would yéeld to vs or both to some other as to hir maiesty and the ParliameÌt But if they shall so doo they should conuince themselues before hand that the forme is vntrue and false which they haue alredie before hand not onlie auowed to be true but so determined alredie and so before hand peremptorily prescribed both to vs and to the Parliament to the Quéens maiestie also that we must all yéeld of
we haue good cause both to hinder and repell For they are neither Godlie proceedings nor proceede as becommeth either learned preachers or faithful ministers or dutiful subiects neither proceed they in anie charitable and orderlie maner neither is this forme that here they prescribe a reformation as they call it or howsoeuer they persuade themselues any other than a redie path to confusion most deformed as we haue plainly séene euen where pag. 84. they pretend most to auoid horrible confusion as they terme it And that we doo not belie this their forme with infinit or with any sclanders let the reader marke or their selues reuise better their deuises about the persons office and authoritie of those presbyters preests or elders whome they terme gouernours but they might much better in my opinion haue the terme of secular preests for difference of the other pastorall preests or eccl preests that are the ministers of the word and sacraments And if they shall aduise themselues of the authoritie that they giue them except they will wilfullie sot theÌselues they shall soone find great confusions which vpon their admittance both in the office of the pastor in the office of the prince and of all officers and Magistrats for lawes making and for lawes breaking and for all vices wherein they would intermeddle and disturbe al the eccl and ciuill state and breed infinit contentions among the common people in euery parish congregation which all their deuises could not helpe except with putting them down that were no lesse danger if they were once vp and therefore to auoid all such deformations I thinke it better before hand to hinder such proceedings to reformation and to stop them that they come not in I haue my selfe heard and so haue diuers other the means that now theÌ the pastors of the French Belgike churches haue made of the confusioÌs and contentions that haue cheeflie risen by these seigniories yet may their state far better admit them especiallie now God comfort them standing as they doe than our state may God be praised for it Neither doth Gualter crie out so much vpon this deuise of these gouernours without good cause where otherwise there are godlie ciuill magistrates Besides this their equalitie in all places of all Pastors making of them to be all Bishops in euerie parish or seuerall congregation what a reformation that would make if their selues cannot see it that perhaps would haue no superior I referre to others better poÌdering And to ioine these new Bishops these new Gouernors together to make vp a consistorie of them both these secular preests of all conditions estates noblemeÌ gentlemeÌ merchants yeomen craftsmen confused together with these eccl preests that are the pastors and all these in all eccl discipline excoÌmunication other church matters to draw altogether in one ioint authoritie whether it might be such a yoking for some of them as God forbad of the oxe plowing with the asse and how fitlie this would draw and proceed to godly reformation we haue partly seene let others thinke further of it I feare the worst Besides the infinit troubles about the coÌtinuall or very often shire Synods for elections ordeining pastors besides euery churches varietie in matters of ceremonies besides the cold lectures of the doctors that might not exhort nor rebuke nor coÌfort nor applie their doctrine but the hotter scaÌblings about the new deuisions of the Bishops the Colleges the cathedral churches lands with all the sacrilege as they call it of Abbies as impropriatious c. al which their Deacons would looke to distribute but they shal be serued al at leisure Besides the diuisions new boundings out of al particular parishes congregatioÌs besides hir Maiestie to be put besides hir cheefest and most principall authoritie and all these things to be done she cannot doe thereto besides a number of their other proceedings for the which I referre me to this learned discourse to their other treatises which how wel they all agree together and when all is done either they would haue this or the like or we cannot tell what nor they tel vs what the like is that they referre vs vnto are not these godly proceedings to reformatioÌ are we now to be blamed as hinderaÌces to these godly procedings vnto reformatioÌ nay rather if they will indeed blame any let them blame theÌselues for they hinder theÌselues more than any other doe except that they hinder most of all which most of all they pretend to further the glorie of GOD the quiet and increase of the church by these proceedings or rather recedings and backslidings But to cleare themselues hereof they haue forsooth set foorth this learned discourse coÌcerning reformation which hitherto say they for lack of such a publike testimoniall was subiect to infinit sclanders This is a faire pretense for the setting foorth this their learned discourse But if their intendment had béene indéed no further but to haue cléered themselues from infinit sclaÌders they should haue stood either altogether or most on that defensatiue point wheras their chéefest part of this learned discourse hath béene spent in coursing and oppugning vs and that with casting forth far moe sclanders and accusations against vs than anie matters that they were charged withall But I thinke they haue sped accordinglie euen with the onelie returning home their owne words without anie our sclandrings of them It is an old saying Selfe doo selfe haue they could neuer haue found greater aduersaries to themselues than their selues are nor greater hinderance of their proceedings than this their owne publike testimoniall to be a testimoniall beyond all exception against them selues For whatsoeuer they haue béene burdened heretofore by others their selues haue now confirmed all those reports to be most true which before the comming foorth of this publike testimoniall might haue béene suspected to be sclanders or that these things had béene but the singular conceits of this fantasticall head or of that particular person But now that this learned discourse is set foorth and is such a publike testimoniall as containeth A breefe and plaine declaration concerning the desires of all those faithfull ministers that haue and do seeke for the discipline and reformation of the church of England Let this publike testimoniall be thorowlie weighed how it concordeth with the particular testimonials of al other that before had written on the like argument Yea how it agréeth with it selfe least our brethrens testimonials in this point should be found like the witnesse of those of whom it is said Marke 14 57 Manie bare false witnesse against him but their witnesse agreed not together I doo not compare our brethren to such a packe of false varlets nor to go about anie such wickeâ purpose but onelie for this point that their testimonials doo not agrée and so do bréed their owne discredit Besides manie apparant vntruths
contradictions inconueniences absurdities ambiguities and a number of vndutifull reproches of the pastors of the Bishops of the Magistrates of the Prince of the whole church state and realme wherewith this their publike testimoniall is not onelie interlaced but full fraught Which the present age séeing and considering might rather reiect it for an infamous libell vnorderly crept out and scattered abrode in the name of all the faithfull ministers and yet not one of all their names set vnto it rather than accept it for anie lawfull autentike and publike testimoniall And as our brethren saie they meant this for the age present so say they And that the posteritie maie know that the truth in this time was not generallie vnknowne nor vntestified concerning the right regiment of the church of God nor this disordered forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment which we haue receaued for the most part of poperie c. Loe howe our Brethren still holde out to the harde ende their boystrous reproches of our disordred forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernment and that wee haue receaued it for the most part of Poperie and it was within little that they sayde not for all of poperie as the most part doth often times goe for all But with them these spéeches goe not for sclaunders but for friendly admonitions and brotherly testimonials of their good opinion of our state and vs. Yea these and all the rest are vttered That the posteritie may knowe What should they knowe Howe to ruffle in the like Rhetoricall figures What should they knowe Howe these that went before them left behinde them such a reprochfull testimoniall of the present age Is not this a faire recorde and full worthy to be commended to the posteritie for a perpetuall memorie But they say they shall knowe hereby that the truth in this time was not generally vnknowen nor vntestified concerning the right regiment of the Church of God And how shal they knowe this By this Learned Discourse and publike testimoniall as they call it testified by a generall indiuiduum vagum Sir Nicholas Nemo and all his companie of faithfull Ministers May this in lawe be admitted for a lawefull recorde and publike testimoniall of the truth Veritas non quaerit angulos Well yet the posteritie may knowe that the truth in this time was not vnknowen nor vntestified concerning the right regiment of the Church of God Truth indéede the truthe God be praysed for it is not generally vnknowen especially in this time Yea thankes be to God it is knowen and testified more generally at this time than for generalitie it hath béen knowen as I suppose at any time not excepting in that respect the very time of the Apostles If our liues were generally also aunswerable to our generall knowledge and to our publike testification Neyther is in this time the right regiment of the Church of GOD generally vnknowen or vntestified but was generally knowen and testified well inough before the publike testimoniall of this Learned Discourse came foorth Neither doe we or can we take any certaine knowledge concerning the right regiment of the Churche hereby Yea it should seeme that their owne selues except in some generalitie and superficiall knowledge do not as yet know it nor can testifie what it is For if this be the right regiment of the Churche that in this publike testimoniall they prescribe vnto vs it hath not onely béene generally and altogether vnknowen and vntestified in anie time heretofore vntill this time that his Learned Discourse came foorth and before was neuer heard of I meane for this forme taking it altogether as it is heere discoursed except for some parcelles of it testified of late by others But for anie certaine knowledge it is not yet eyther generally made knowen and testified vnto the present age or to the posteritie by this publike testimoniall nor particularly vnto the testies themselues for all that they boldly affirme this to be the right regiment of the Church and yet when they haue neuer so truely testified and discoursed neuer so learnedly all that they can with all their heades layde together their verie desire in the ende and summe of all is but eyther to haue this or the like to bee receaued But if this be the right then eyther this or the wrong there is no like wil serue the turne And is their desire to haue either right or wrong they care not whether so they may be ridde of this regiment that nowe we haue If this regiment séeme too hoate vnto them will they leape with the Flounder out of the frying pan into the fire But God be praysed they néede not frie except they frie in their owne hoate and fretting choller at the regiment of the Church of Englande vnder GOD and her Maiestie it is generally a good Regiment and right inough according to the establishment of the lawes therof if our Brethren would coole their ouer-hoate passions and be thankefull to God and vnder him to her Maiestie for it As for this publike testimoniall of our Brethren if our regiment of the Church be not right the posteritie shal neuer know by theirs what is right or wrong or that the right regiment of the Church was made knowen or testified in this time either generally or particularly or that is most to be desired certainely by such a doubtfull testification of vncertaine desires that either this or the like or else we can not tell what might be receaued As for that they call our regiment of the Churche a disordred forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement it is but their owne disordred forme of not gouerning well their mindes and tongues Our forme both for the formal material lawes orders therof is far more formal material than this forme of their is Yea if it should come to this or the like what mishapen forme we might happen to haue wee can not yet fore-tell nor they can tell vs. As for that which we haue alreadie we knowe it and we knowe the verie worst thereof The best of theirs is yet vncertaine I graunt our forme is not so well ordered but that there may and do fall out disorders but those happen by the abuse thereof And so it may be in any forme of gouernment neuer so good by mens infirmities or corruptions wherewith the forme it selfe is not to be charged And yet I goe not about to defende our forme or to vaunt thereof for anie such absolute perfection that it could not be altered or amended what Lawe is there not that man can make but it may bee or rather is vnperfect As for the forme that they haue here set foorth be it spoken with our Brethrens pardoÌ if they please besides their disordered setting it forth the very forme it selfe is eyther much disordered or else other formes that other of our Brethren haue also set foorth or that other reformed Churches are gouerned by not onely in Germanie but in Héluetia
could haue so neglected For who were these godly fathers And how long haue they neglected this forme of our Brethren if at least they euer knewe or heard or dreamed of this or any such forme like to this Verily euen all the godly fathers that haue beene in any age from the time of Christes being here on the earth euen downe till our time are these our godly Fathers And this is no smal preiudice to these sonnes that woulde nowe thrust these thinges vpon vs and accuse all our godly Fathers in neglecting their duetie rather than they woulde leaue their contradiction against eyther vs their Brethren or against their prince and Magistrates or against their and our godly Fathers of any ages passed heeretofore that they might leaue behinde them as a perpetuall publike testimoniall to their and our children and to all posterity an example of their contradictions and contentions And thus with this good report of our godly Fathers and with this good publike testimoniall to the posterity of the age present and with this carefull example for our children to bee nourished vp in his contradiction and to deliuer it as their inheritaunce to their children and childrens children while the worlde continueth after them they breake off and ende all this Learned Discourse and with this charitable affection and quiet mind to vs and to our forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernment established they conclude yet a greate deale better with a finall wish and as it were a prayer to God Wherein so farre as the same tendeth to the glorie of God to the more manifest reuealing of his trueth heerein to the acknowledgement of our sinnes and imperfections to the humble and heartie begging of his mercie grace consolation and vnitie of his holy spirite not to the confirming of the forme that they haue here prescribed nor to the defacing of the forme of Eccl. gouernment alreadie in this his Church established we ioyntly say with them and craue of them also to repete their owne wordes and to say with vs and all of vs altogether with heart and voice The Lorde graunt for Christes sake that wee beeing all of vs so farre from anie perfection in this moâtall life but rather as the holie Apostle sayth 6. Hebr. being ledde forwardes towardes that according to the commaundement of our Master Iesus Christ we may be perfect as our heauenly father is perfect God may open all our eyes to see the same and not be blinded in our owne conceits and bend our harts earnestly to labour to attaine thereunto by all such godly and lawefull meanes as is aunswerable to our vocations And in the meane time so farre as wee haue attayned to be thankefull to God for the same and vnder him to all them whome hee hath made the instrumentes whereby wee haue attayned thereunto And not to bee weariâ thereof and seeke innouations but with all constant alacritie of going forwarde both in synceritie of true religion and in sanctification of our liues and in due obedience to our most gratious Soueraigne and vnder her Maiestie to all our Ecclesiast ouerseers and ciuill Magistrates and to all the godly lawes Eccl. or politicall of this our Church and Realme of Englande that we may proceede all by one rule that we may be all like affectioned to seeke the glorie of God and the peace of his Church and to builde vp the ruines of his temple and not to hinder the building by controlling or defacing the builders thereof by vnnecessarie contradictions and by deuising of newe platformes but that with one heart and with one voice we may prayse the father of our Lorde Iesus Christe in his holie temple which is the congregation of Saintes in the holy Ghoste and prayse the sonne also which is the same our Lorde and Sauiour Iesus Christ and together with the Father and the sonne praie the holy ghost the comforter to leade vs into all truth and to sanctifie both our soules and bodies with all holinesse and righteousnesse according to the rich and plentifull measure of his grace in this life transitorie and to glorifie vs in his life eternall All which and all those other thinges whatsoeuer his blessed will and heauenly wisedome seeth most requisite for his glory for our saluation and for the ceasing of these contradictions that wee may be all truly vnited vnto him and in him be reunited one to another he of his infinite mercie vouchsafe to graunt To whom thrée persons and one Almightie God the king euerlasting immortall inuisible and God wise onely be all honour and glorie all dominion and power all prayse and thankesgiuing both nowe for euer and for euermore And so vnto this our Brethrens prayer thus a little and I hope without offence augmented I beseech them and all our other Brethren and sisters in Iesus Christe let vs all take withall vppon vs the good Clerkes parte and ioyne in the closure by vnfeynedly pronouncing the Amen Amen good Lorde according to thy good will Amen So be it Faultes escaped Pagina 19 line 17 Read these 158 l. 14 to 163 l. 42 them â98 l. 11 ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã 227 l. 26 of 239 l. 11 sacrificer 244 l. 38 ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã 243 l. 2 vnlearned 256 l. 38 is 258 l. 12 imposed 268 l. 11 your 276 in margin antiquitie 277 l 41 praefectum 284 l. 13 likely â0 l. 31 represse ib. is it 293 l 36 ingendred 305 in marg dele of Ieromes 323 l. 41 returned to 332 in marg not Euangelistes 341 l. 5 it 346 l. 20 dele not 347 l. 16 not 348 l. 3 no long 364 l. 37 greater 368 l. 7 ordaine 378 l. 27 so foorth 389 l. 13 sith 405 l 37â ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã ãâã 40â in marg forbiddeth not ib. l. 39 dele from 419 l. 6 confused 427 l. 29 Theoctistus l. 31 dele Bishop l. 33 twentith 428 l. 36 yea 432 in marg praefatus est 433 l. 27 28 superintendents 441 l. 2 pontifex are yet he 444 l. 6 dele the. 451 marg Math. â3 454 l. 16 17 If there had beene no primacie there had beene no loue of it for Ignoti nullâ cupidopunc 457 l. 3 Collegues 467 l. 18 member 473 l. 11 as farre ib. l. 36 that he 505 l. 40 haled 526 l. 22 expell 534 l. 21 suffice 541 l. 36 seale 568 l. 15 as 569 l. 15 that 571 l. 16 or 575 l. 42 principles 610 l. 12 so 611 l. 27. concent 612 l. 24 the. 633 l. 34 wee 665 l. 25 no. 681 l. 32 representeth 694 l. 21 that 703 l. 13 shee 704 l. 10 is not 711 l. 30 Batilidis 721 l. 15 with 726 l. 8 no superiour 728 l. 40 of his 732 l. 2 virilis 740 l. 36 the. 742 l. 5 Alexandra 749 l. 41 powers 759 l. 19 he 784 l. 39 which is 797 l. 28 or 812 l. 32 eâconuerso 820 l. 29 with 826 l. 37 dele not 827 l. 6 confusion 829
times our diuine seruice Our Blast prayer âold abolish the L prayer all The learned disc pag. 69. 70. 1. Cor. 14.15 16. Bridges Our Brethr. reason of custome from the beginning The Pastors of pââying in the ãâã of the who ãâã The âougâ dâty of praying with ãâã The ãâ¦ã 70. Bridges The Pastors duty of preching His duty of ministring Sââr and praying The prayers may proceed thogh there be no Sacra ministred at that time The blessing of Mariages referred to prayer An auncient custome of the Church The learned disc Pag. 70. 71. 1. Cor. 11.17 1. Cor. 14 23.2â.25.16.31 Bridges The churchâs authoritie to disposematters of order comlines edificatioâ The Churches authority Our Brethr. doingâ with out author The allowance of a prescribed forme of ordinary publike prayer Our brethr duty of obedience to the Church of Eng. disposing a prescribed forme Disobedience Their offence against God The church of Eng hath not ouerrâached her lawfull authority in thosethingâ ContentioÌs Our brethr il demeanor towardes their mother the Churche of England The aduersaries honored their mother too much our Brethren too little ContentioÌs disturbers of the churches orders Caluin in 1. Cor. 11.16 The dangeâ of contention against orders the repressing of contentious men Vrging ceremonies ContentioÌs hinder edifying in publike Eccl. assemblies If our publ assemblies be not so effectuall the fault is personall in the parties asseÌbled not in the churches orders Caluine in 1. Cor. â 1. The learned disc pag. 71. 72. Bridges Precisenesse about ceremonies We vrge no ceremonies nothing profiting to edification Edification What and how ceâemonies be vrged âhe state Church not to be disturbed for theÌ How greatly our Brethrens contentioÌs hinder the churches edifying Comlines and order The excellencie of the sentence 1. Cor. 14.40 Comlinesse ioyned with order Order must be ordeined and not broken Our Brethr. fogetfulnes of their duty to their betters aedification not separate from comlinesse and order but included in them Comlines order are their selues an edifying Caluin in 1. Cor. 14.40 The policie of the church directed to comlinesse and order S. Paules purpose was not to driue the good gifts of god out of the Church though they were abused Caluin in 1. Cor. 14.27 The gifts of tongues abused Our Brethr. attemptes to driue out the offices and orders established and to bring in such as are long since wornâ out or rather meere supposed The learned disc Pag. 72. Bridges VVomens prophesying Our Brethr. doe often quarell at womensprophecying teaching preaching and âaptizing whereas their selues as much or more than we do infeâre it Womens publ speaking in the Church not vtterly forbidden Caluin in 1. Cor. 11.5 Caluines insufficientanswere for women pâophecâing Womens praying and prophecying with their heades couered No lâkelihood of S. Paules vtter improuing womens prophecying that had the gift therof Though one place in the scripture be referred to an other yet in no place is the spirit of god contrary to itselfe How these things were forbidden and howe permitted Caluines better aunswere Caluines meaning The interpretation of the geneua Testaments note and Bezaes exposition of womens praying and prophecying 1. Cor. 11.4 Beza in 1. Cor. 11.4 The womeÌs prophecying to be nothing but to heare thâ mens prophecying Aug. contr Maximum Lib. 13. âa 14. How euerie man and woman present may make publ praier One did not all these things in all their names The sacram not ministâed by all though common to all The difference betwene praying and prophecing But in prophecying âhe Minister representeth one and the people another therfore the hearers cannot be sayd to be the prophecâerâ Caluine Our late disorders in the exercise of prophecying The hearers be the iudges not the propheciers Whome S. Pauls words ment all might prophecy The gift of tongues abused Bezaes reasons of this interpretation Bezaes own reason ouerthrowes his interpretation VVomens prophesying Beza reasoneth a petitione principii Wherin the opposition of S. Paules sentence lieth Bâzaes reason returned on him self The inconueniency of this interpretation Beza nowe and then alters his own interpretation The worde Churches nor wel chaÌged not the word assemblies The drife of Beza vtterly to restrayne all Women from speaking in any assemblies Bezaes interpretatioÌ reiected The womaÌs clayme Deut. 27. Esayes wife Susanna Womens speech The womaÌ that praised Christ. Luke 11.17 The womaÌ with the bloudie fâx The woman of Canaan The woman of Samaria Caluine Womans publike speech Musculus Marlorat out of Bucer Philips four daughters VVomens speech How Caluine cutteth off these examples From womens publike preaching how our breth proceed against womeÌs publike gouernment Philips daughters VVhether the 4. virgines prophecying Act. 2â 9. did it opeÌâio or no. Câluine on Act. 2â 0 Euseb. on the 3. Eccle. hist. cap. 9. Womens publike speaking Womens publike teaching and edifying the Church God free aboue his ordinarie lawe Teaching gouerning How our brethreÌ slip from weomens publ speaking to weomens publike gouernmeÌt How power teaching concurre differ The power of the Teacher Teachers subiects Of what womens subiection S. Paul speaketh Caluines inconsiderate speech against womens gouernment Caluines il speech of womens gouernmeÌt Heere is other gouernment besidâ teaching whereof women may haue a right How affection carrieth wise godlie men awaie Caluines better speeches Caluines better acknowleging of weomeÌs gouernmeÌt in the Qu. most excellent Maiesty Caluine craueth the Q. Maiesties patronage for his commeÌtary on Esai Caluine confesseth both the Queens Maie right of inheritance to the Crowne Gods calling her to the cheefest care of the Church God the Q. champion and the Qu. the restorer of Gods worship Caluines praise of the Q. maiestie Esaies testimonie for the confirmation of the gouernment of Queenes Danaeus coÌcerning womens gouernment 1. Tim. 2.12 Daneus of womeÌs gouernment How farre Danaeus granteth womeÌ to teach Hemingius in 1. Tim. 2. Danaeus arguments against womens gouernment Danaeus ill argument Danaeus faultie argumeÌt both informe and matter The maior proposition Vsurping authoâitie ouer men Danaeus euil argument The minor proposition The forme of the argument misformed Danaeus ill argument The very words of the argument senselesse How many wayes a woman may haue lawful gouernmeÌt Danaeus euil argument The conclusion of Danaeus argu against womens speaking Necessity admitteth also womeÌs publike teaching extraordinarily VVomen regiment Danaeus in 1. Tim. 2.12 Bridges No place in scripture directly against it Wom. regimeÌt honest Womenâ gouern not vnhonest Our brethâ offence in calling the âonestie of womens regiment into questioÌ The dangerous inconueniences of these Questionistes Our dutiful obedience and thankfulnesse to God her Maiesty Questions of Womens regiment What supreme gouernment princes haue ineccl maters The princes roial speech quickning the Lawes that are made The Salike Law against womens regiments Caluines Danaeus inclination to the deuise the lawe Salike Diuerse womeÌ haue had the regiment of Fraunce Cenalis