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A85400 Innocency and truth triumphing together; or, The latter part of an answer to the back-part of a discourse, lately published by William Prynne Esquire, called, A full reply, &c. Beginning at the foot of p. 17. of the said discourse, with this title or superscription, Certain brief animadversions on Mr. John Goodwins Theomachia. Wherein the argumentative part of the said animadversions is examined; together with some few animadversions upon some former passages in the said reply. Licensed and printed according to order. Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665. 1645 (1645) Wing G1176; Thomason E24_8; ESTC R22666 90,413 109

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i_o hope_v ever_o shall_v such_o a_o debtor_n unto_o error_n as_o to_o sacrifice_v my_o time_n pain_n occasion_n credit_n conscience_n upon_o the_o service_n of_o it_o but_o unto_o mr._n prynne_n i_o shall_v willing_o acknowledge_v myself_o a_o debtor_n if_o he_o will_v either_o acquit_v i_o of_o my_o crime_n by_o silence_n or_o deliver_v i_o from_o my_o error_n by_o his_o pen._n finis_fw-la finis_fw-la 1_o cor._n 15._o 10._o 10._o 1_o cor._n 15._o 8._o 8._o gal._n 14._o 16._o amos_n 7._o 10._o mat._n 2._o 1_o 2_o 3._o 3._o rom._n 11._o 25._o 25._o auri_fw-la sacra_fw-la fames_fw-la 2_o cor._n 12._o 5._o 1_o cor._n 3._o 15._o 15._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d phil._n 4._o 13._o 13._o heb._n 10._o 37_o 37_o rev._n 22._o 12_o sect._n 1_o sect._n 2._o sect._n 3_o sect._n 4._o sect._n 5._o sect._n 6._o sect._n 7._o sect._n 8._o sect._n 9_o sect._n 10._o sect._n 11._o sect._n 12._o sect._n 13._o 13._o 1_o cor._n 15._o 14._o sect._n 14._o sect._n 15._o sect._n 16._o sect._n 17._o sect._n 18._o sect._n 19_o sect._n 20._o sect._n 21_o sect._n 22._o sect._n 23._o 23._o exod._n 23._o 25._o deut._n 6._o 12_o 13._o deut._n 10._o 12._o &_o 11._o 13._o &_o 13._o 14._o &_o 30._o 16._o joih_n 22._o 5._o &_o 24._o 14._o 23._o 23._o exod._n 19_o 8._o &_o 24_o 3._o deut._n 5._o 27._o &_o 26._o 17._o josh_n 24._o 16_o 21_o 22_o 24._o 24._o exod._n 20._o 23._o &_o 23._o 24_o 32_o 33_o deut._n 5._o 7_o 8_o 9_o &_o 6._o 14._o &_o 7._o 5._o 16._o &_o 8._o 19_o &_o 12._o 30._o &_o 13._o 2_o 3._o &_o 29._o 17_o 18._o sect._n 24._o sect._n 25._o sect._n 26._o 26._o mat._n 19_o 6._o dan._n 3._o sect._n 27._o 1_o tim._n 5._o 8._o sect._n 28._o sect._n 29._o sect._n 30._o 30._o gal._n 2._o 11._o 11._o where_o he_o charge_v i_o to_o have_v presumptuous_o undermine_v the_o undoubted_a privilege_n of_o parliament_n with_o i_o know_v not_o how_o many_o more_o anti-parliamentary_a passage_n diametral_o contrary_a to_o my_o national_a vow_n and_o covevant_n etc._n etc._n sect._n 31._o sect._n 32._o sect._n 33._o jam._n 2._o 2._o page_n 18._o 18._o page_n 24._o 24._o page_n 9_o sect._n 34._o sect._n 35._o sect._n 36._o sect._n 37._o sect._n 38._o 38._o rev._n 1._o 6._o sect._n 39_o sect._n 40._o sect._n 41._o sect._n 42._o 42._o mr_n jacob_n affirm_v that_o for_o the_o space_n of_o 200._o or_o 300._o year_n after_o christ_n every_o visible_a church_n have_v power_n to_o exercise_v ecclesiastical_a government_n and_o all_o other_o god_n spiritual_a ordinance_n the_o mean_n of_o salvation_n in_o and_o for_o itself_o immediate_o from_o christ_n zions_n prerogative_n p._n 28_o 29._o 29._o mar._n 9_o 39_o 39_o mr._n prynne_n full_a reply_v p_o 74._o 74._o m._n edward_n antapol_n p._n 261._o 261._o twiss_n de_fw-fr scientia_fw-la med_n med_n ego_fw-la inquit_fw-la fons●ca_n in_o academia_n con●mbricensi_fw-la hoc_fw-la primus_fw-la observavi_fw-la imo_fw-la potius_fw-la ego_fw-la clamat_fw-la molina_n apud_fw-la eborenses_fw-la meos_fw-la his_o non_fw-la cedit_fw-la leonardus_n lessius_fw-la lovaniensis_fw-la &_o svo_fw-la cer●bello_fw-la de_fw-la codem_fw-la partu_fw-la ambitiosè_fw-la gratulatur_fw-la prid._n lect._n 2._o the_o scient_a med_a med_a see_v zion_n prerogdtive_a almost_o throughout_o throughout_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n arrogate_v not_o to_o himself_o any_o directive_n power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n a._n s._n in_o his_o observe_v &_o annot._n p._n 5._o and_o again_o p._n 7._o to_o grant_v they_o such_o a_o power_n viz._n of_o judge_a question_n in_o debate_n between_o the_o two_o party_n in_o the_o assembly_n speak_v of_o the_o parliament_n be_v nothing_o else_o but_o to_o join_v yourselves_o with_o the_o arminian_n etc._n etc._n etc._n act._n 9_o 15._o sect._n 44._o 44._o many_o godly_a and_o learned_a minister_n even_o such_o as_o be_v their_o good_a friend_n &_o tender_a enough_o of_o they_o &c_n &c_n p._n 3._o their_o friend_n &_o familiar_n p._n 4._o that_o all_o the_o godly_a minister_n of_o city_n and_o country_n shall_v carry_v themselves_o towards_o you_o with_o the_o love_n respect_n fairness_n brotherly_a kindness_n etc._n etc._n et_fw-la max_fw-la the_o minister_n court_v they_o by_o all_o way_n of_o respect_n &_o oft_o high_a entertainment_n of_o they_o inloving_a speech_n friendly_a countenance_n familiar_a conver_n sing_v etc._n etc._n p._n 226_o 226_o i_o love_v their_o person_n &_o value_v they_o as_o brethren_n yea_o some_o of_o they_o above_o brethren_n and_o beside_o that_o love_n i_o bear_v to_o they_o as_o saint_n i_o have_v a_o personal_a love_n and_o a_o particular_a love_n of_o friendship_n to_o some_o of_o they_o etc._n etc._n epist_n p._n 7._o sect._n 45._o sect._n 46._o 46._o gravis_fw-la enim_fw-la est_fw-la &_o periculosus_fw-la error_n in_fw-la plurimis_fw-la &_o multorum_fw-la lapsus_fw-la etiamsi_fw-la se_fw-la intelligat_fw-la exurgend_n pudore_fw-la authoritatem_fw-la sibi_fw-la praesumit_fw-la ex_fw-la numero_fw-la habens_fw-la hoc_fw-la impudentiae_fw-la ut_fw-la quod_fw-la errat_fw-la intelligentiam_fw-la esse_fw-la veritatis_fw-la asserat_fw-la dùm_fw-la minus_fw-la error_n be_v esse_fw-la existimatur_fw-la in_o multu_fw-la hil._n l._n 6._o 6._o cum_fw-la turpis_fw-la est_fw-la medicina_fw-la sanari_fw-la pudeat_fw-la sect._n 47._o 47._o postr●mò_fw-la non_fw-la satis_fw-la can_v die_v fac●unt_v ●un_v invid_v ose_v commemorant_fw-la quantas_fw-la turbas_fw-la tumultus_fw-la contentiones_fw-la secum_fw-la traxer●t_fw-la nostrae_fw-la doctrinae_fw-la praedicatio_fw-la et_fw-la quos_fw-la nunc_fw-la in_o multis_fw-la fructꝰ_n crat_fw-mi nam_fw-la horum_fw-la malorum_fw-la culpa_fw-la indignè_fw-la in_o ipsa_fw-la derivatur_fw-la quae_fw-la in_o satanae_n militian_n torquer●_n debuerat_fw-la et_fw-la mox_fw-la haec_fw-la certissima_fw-la et_fw-la inprim●●_n fidelis_fw-la no_o tanquâ_fw-la dis●●nt_fw-la tursverbun_fw-la à_fw-la vi_fw-la nun_n à_fw-fr medacibꝰ_n dactrinis_n quae_fw-la sefacile_fw-la produnt_fw-la dum_fw-la aequis_fw-la on●nium_fw-la auribꝰ_n recipiuntur_fw-la &_o à_fw-la mundo_fw-la plaudente_fw-la aud●untur_fw-la aud●untur_fw-la lutherus_n velu●●_n molum_fw-la eridis_n misit_fw-la in_o mundum_fw-la cujus_fw-la nuliam_fw-la omninò_fw-la partè_fw-la non_fw-la turba●an_n video_fw-la erasm_n l._n 14._o ep_n 7._o 7._o pios_fw-la hoc_fw-la nomen_fw-la &_o titulum_fw-la in_o mundo_fw-la oportet_fw-la gerere_fw-la quòd_fw-la seditiosiac_a schismatici_fw-la ac_fw-la infinitorun_v malorum_fw-la authores_fw-la sunt_fw-la luth._o in_o gal._n 5._o 5._o hab._n 2._o 21._o with_o heb._n 12._o 26_o 27._o 27._o mat._n ●6_n 6_o 5_o sect._n 48._o 48._o act._n 14._o 11._o 11._o the_o new_a england_n catechism_n call_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n compose_v by_o mr._n cotton_n and_o thrice_o print_v a_o guide_n unto_o zion_n another_o small_a treatise_n butful_a of_o learning_n read_v and_o strength_n call_v zion_n prerogative_n royal_a the_o answer_n of_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o several_a church_n of_o new_a england_n to_o 32_o question_n send_v etc._n etc._n another_o answer_n of_o the_o same_o elder_n to_o 9_o other_o question_n about_o church_n government_n mr._n thompson_n and_o mr._n mathors_n answer_n to_o mr._n charles_n herles_a independency_n mr._n tho._n wield_v answer_v to_o mr._n w._n rathbone_n beside_o many_o other_o treatise_n publish_v upon_o this_o subject_n sect._n 49._o sect._n 50._o 50._o rome_n 14._o 2_o 3_o 4._o sect._n 51._o 51._o 1_o tim_n 6._o 13._o 17_o 18_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 11._o etc._n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v not_o safe_a for_o any_o to_o receive_v matter_n of_o religion_n without_o terious_a examination_n who_o ever_o be_v the_o church_n the_o authority_n of_o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a possible_o the_o church_n may_v one_o and_o therefore_o we_o must_v flee_v to_o the_o throne_n of_o jesus_n christ_n the_o head_n of_o the_o church_n for_o satisfaction_n who_o shall_v we_o rather_o believe_v concern_v god_n than_o god_n himself_o if_o there_o be_v a_o council_n of_o the_o most_o learned_a doctor_n that_o ever_o the_o world_n have_v yea_o if_o a_o assembly_n of_o angel_n yet_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n concern_v the_o good_a way_n the_o last_o resolution_n must_v be_v into_o thus_o say_v the_o lord_n mr._n th._n h●ll_o a_o high-resolved_n presbyterian_a in_o a_o sermon_n stale_v the_o good_a old_a way_n god_n way_n etc._n etc._n preach_v before_o the_o l._n maior_n etc._n etc._n apr._n 24._o 1●44_n pa._n 16_o 17._o sect._n 52._o sect._n 53._o sect._n 54._o sect._n 55._o sect._n 56._o 56._o act._n 19_o 11._o 11._o due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n part_n 2._o pag._n 404._o 404._o mat._n 15._o 5._o 5._o luk._n 7._o 32._o sect._n 57_o sect._n 58._o 2_o king_n 6._o 20._o 20._o 1_o king_n 17._o 6._o sect._n 59_o 59_o eaque_fw-la majestas_fw-la 〈…〉_z quae_fw-la in_o constanendâ_fw-la &_o personalem_fw-la quae_fw-la in_fw-la administrandâ_fw-la seu_fw-la gubernandâ_fw-la republicâ_fw-la consistit_fw-la dividi_fw-la videtur_fw-la et_fw-fr meat_n majestas_fw-la realis_fw-la seu_fw-la imper●_n republicae_fw-la est_fw-la coaeva_fw-la quamdiu_fw-la corpus_fw-la ejus_fw-la durat_fw-la per_fw-la manet_fw-la &_o etiam_fw-la sub_fw-la inter_fw-la regnis_fw-la &_o alterationibus_fw-la persistit_fw-la quam_fw-la ideò_fw-la fundamentum_fw-la republicae_fw-la possu●●_n be_v personalis_fw-la conci●●_n cum_fw-la personâ_fw-la &_o ad_fw-la rempublicam_fw-la redit_fw-la huius_fw-la majestatis_fw-la 〈…〉_z etiam_fw-la post_v 〈◊〉_d legem_fw-la populum_fw-la romanum_fw-la aliquam_fw-la retinuesse_fw-mi dicitur_fw-la majestatem_fw-la §_o 4._o 〈…〉_z c._n l._n 7._o §_o 〈…〉_z maj_o statem_fw-la nostram_fw-la f._n the_o captiv_n &_o postium_fw-la l._n 1._o 〈…〉_z majestatem_fw-la publica_fw-la ad_fw-la l._n julian_n majest_n lex_fw-la namque_fw-la regius_fw-la de_fw-la personalis_fw-la 〈…〉_z be_v translatione_fw-la intell_n g●debet_fw-la ego_fw-la in_o tract_n de_fw-fr monarchia_fw-la cap._n 4._o num_fw-la 4._o ac_fw-la 〈…〉_z per_fw-la eam_fw-la populus_fw-la potestatem_fw-la administrationis_fw-la non_fw-la constitutionis_fw-la et_fw-la constat_fw-la ex_fw-la l._n 2_o §_o 1._o 〈…〉_z administrationem_fw-la re_fw-mi publicae_fw-la non_fw-la aliqu●d_fw-la ultrà_fw-la imperatori_fw-la datum_fw-la esse_fw-la christoph_n 〈…〉_z dess●●_n politico_n 〈◊〉_d de_fw-fr majestate_fw-la etc._n etc._n sect._n 1._o p._n 5._o sect._n 60._o 60._o act._n 20._o 28._o 1_o pet._n 5._o 2._o sect._n 61._o mat._n 2._o 6._o 6._o mat._n 20._o 15._o 15._o mark_n 1._o 24._o luke_n 4._o 34._o 34._o procliviores_fw-la sumus_fw-la quaerere_fw-la potiùs_fw-la quid_fw-la contra_fw-la ea_fw-la respondeamus_fw-la quae_fw-la nostro_fw-la objiciuntur_fw-la errori_fw-la quam_fw-la intendere_fw-la ea_fw-la quae_fw-la sunt_fw-la salubria_fw-la ut_fw-la careamus_fw-la errore_fw-la sect._n 64._o
in_o seven_o year_n and_o when_o he_o say_v that_o our_o saviour_n both_o instruct_v and_o refute_v his_o opposite_n and_o auditor_n by_o demand_v question_n only_o i_o conceive_v it_o be_v a_o mistake_n as_o for_o those_o scripture_n which_o he_o cite_v to_o prove_v this_o some_o of_o they_o be_v more_o than_o half_a chapter_n most_o of_o they_o very_o large_a portion_n of_o chapter_n he_o that_o shall_v please_v to_o peruse_v they_o shall_v find_v more_o in_o they_o then_o demand_v question_n only_o no_o question_n demand_v by_o our_o saviour_n be_v further_o instructive_a then_o as_o it_o give_v occasion_n to_o a_o answer_n it_o be_v the_o marrow_n of_o the_o answer_n not_o the_o bone_n of_o the_o question_n that_o nourish_v with_o instruction_n and_o luke_n 2._o 47._o the_o first_o scripture_n allege_v by_o he_o in_o this_o cause_n it_o be_v say_v that_o all_o that_o hear_v he_o be_v astonish_v at_o his_o understanding_n and_o answer_n not_o at_o his_o question_n notwithstanding_o we_o acknowledge_v aristotle_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o be_v very_o useful_a and_o serviceable_a for_o the_o advancement_n of_o knowledge_n only_o herein_o we_o must_v crave_v pardon_n if_o we_o judge_v it_o no_o sign_n of_o any_o depth_n or_o thoroughness_n in_o a_o argument_n or_o subject_n to_o be_v imperious_a and_o sore_a in_o ask_v question_n about_o it_o and_o but_o weak_a and_o superficial_a in_o give_v answer_n again_o 3_o whereas_o he_o suppose_v p._n 4._o that_o independent_a minister_n and_o congregation_n lay_v claim_v to_o a_o sovereign_a temporal_a all_o jurisdiction_n for_o the_o prescribe_v and_o set_v up_o of_o a_o church-government_n certain_o it_o be_v a_o mistake_n whatsoever_o it_o be_v more_o they_o claim_v to_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o much_o less_o any_o temporal_a jurisdiction_n lest_o of_o all_o any_o sovereign_a jurisdiction_n to_o prescribe_v unto_o any_o much_o less_o to_o command_v or_o enjoin_v under_o penalty_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o sovereign_a temporal_a jurisdiction_n any_o church-government_n whatsoever_o they_o only_o submit_v to_o that_o good_a and_o holy_a and_o perfect_a will_n of_o god_n for_o the_o regulation_n of_o themselves_o in_o point_n of_o order_n among_o themselves_o as_o far_o as_o he_o have_v please_v to_o enlighten_v they_o with_o the_o knowledge_n thereof_o without_o take_v any_o offence_n at_o other_o for_o be_v contrary-minded_n to_o they_o and_o without_o the_o least_o semblance_n or_o show_v of_o claim_v any_o authoritative_a or_o temporal_a power_n to_o impose_v or_o force_v what_o they_o practise_v themselves_o upon_o other_o again_o whereas_o because_o some_o of_o the_o independent_o as_o he_o charge_v they_o p._n 5._o whether_o true_o or_o no_o i_o can_v neither_o affirm_v nor_o deny_v refuse_v to_o hear_v the_o scripture_n read_v in_o our_o church_n he_o think_v to_o evict_v this_o practice_n of_o they_o by_o prove_v and_o that_o by_o no_o less_o than_o thirteen_o text_n of_o 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only_a point_n in_o question_n i_o presume_v he_o mean_v about_o church-government_n only_o to_o be_v whether_o the_o independent_a model_n alone_o be_v that_o exact_a unalterable_a form_n of_o church-government_n which_o christ_n have_v punctual_o &_o particular_o set_v down_o for_o all_o christian_a nation_n church_n to_o follow_v and_o yet_o both_o in_o the_o same_o page_n afterward_o and_o in_o several_a passage_n beside_o in_o this_o discourse_n deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o form_n of_o government_n so_o punctual_o and_o particuar_o set_v down_o by_o christ_n doubtless_o it_o can_v but_o be_v a_o mistake_n if_o it_o amount_v not_o to_o a_o error_n for_o they_o that_o hold_v the_o independent_a model_n as_o he_o call_v it_o to_o be_v the_o only_a form_n of_o church-government_n which_o christ_n have_v so_o punctual_o and_o particular_o set_v down_o must_v needs_o hold_v withal_o that_o christ_n have_v set_v down_o a_o form_n of_o church-government_n upon_o such_o term_n i_o mean_v which_o be_v and_o must_v be_v unalterable_a now_o mr._n prynne_n with_o many_o other_o of_o his_o judgement_n in_o this_o controversy_n deny_v this_o latter_a opinion_n as_o well_o as_o the_o former_a evident_a it_o be_v that_o the_o former_a can_v be_v the_o only_a point_n in_o question_n but_o the_o truth_n be_v that_o beside_o both_o the_o one_o point_n &_o the_o other_o there_o be_v many_o other_o in_o question_n though_o possible_o not_o of_o that_o difficulty_n or_o importance_n yea_o himself_o in_o the_o follow_a page_n propound_v another_o question_n differ_v from_o this_o to_o which_o notwithstanding_o he_o appropriate_v the_o same_o honour_n and_o affirm_v it_o to_o be_v the_o sole_a question_n too_o again_o 5._o p._n 6._o whereas_o he_o determine_v moderate_v or_o regulate_v episcopacy_n to_o be_v the_o same_o with_o presbytery_n i_o conceive_v this_o determination_n will_v hardly_o be_v vote_v orthodox_n in_o the_o assembly_n itself_o nor_o in_o the_o general_a assembly_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n for_o my_o part_n though_o i_o can_v approve_v of_o it_o as_o matter_n of_o truth_n yet_o for_o matter_n of_o inconvenience_n otherwise_o i_o have_v nothing_o to_o charge_v it_o with_o again_o whereas_o in_o the_o same_o page_n in_o case_n the_o parliament_n by_o the_o synod_n advice_n shall_v unanimous_o establish_v a_o moderate_v episcopacy_n as_o most_o consonant_a to_o the_o scripture_n he_o profess_v for_o himself_o that_o he_o shall_v ready_o submit_v unto_o it_o and_o withal_o demand_v of_o the_o antiquerist_a why_o not_o he_o and_o all_o other_o as_o if_o either_o the_o consonancy_n of_o a_o practice_n to_o the_o scripture_n or_o the_o example_n of_o one_o man_n submit_v unto_o it_o as_o consonant_a thereunto_o be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o all_o man_n whatsoever_o to_o submit_v likewise_o unto_o it_o without_o any_o more_o ado_n this_o savour_v strong_o of_o that_o error_n which_o comport_v so_o well_o with_o the_o practice_n of_o some_o viz._n that_o if_o man_n in_o authority_n shall_v conclude_v and_o enjoin_v any_o thing_n as_o consonant_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n all_o man_n be_v bind_v ready_o to_o submit_v unto_o it_o without_o ask_v any_o question_n for_o conscience_n sake_n yea_o or_o whether_o they_o see_v either_o consonancy_n or_o dissonancy_n in_o it_o thereunto_o again_o 6._o whereas_o he_o own_v this_o say_n p._n 6._o as_o the_o natural_a issue_n lawful_o beget_v of_o the_o body_n or_o soul_n the_o one_o of_o his_o own_o position_n that_o politician_n and_o statesman_n be_v fit_a to_o be_v consult_v with_o to_o suit_v a_o church-government_n best_o to_o the_o civil_a state_n certain_o it_o be_v no_o assertion_n to_o be_v rejoice_v in_o for_o as_o the_o apostle_n make_v their_o enemy_n themselves_o judge_n in_o this_o point_n between_o they_o whether_o it_o be_v meet_v to_o obey_v god_n or_o they_o so_o shall_v i_o willing_o abide_v the_o arbitration_n of_o any_o of_o all_o those_o that_o make_v but_o the_o least_o conscience_n of_o fear_v god_n and_o his_o king_n christ_n whether_o the_o government_n of_o christ_n church_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v condescend_v and_o be_v compel_v by_o politician_n and_o statesman_n to_o do_v obeisance_n to_o civil_a state_n in_o accommodate_v they_o or_o whether_o the_o government_n of_o these_o shall_v not_o rather_o veil_n and_o do_v homage_n unto_o that_o and_o deny_v themselves_o in_o their_o most_o endear_a principle_n and_o maxim_n of_o state_n to_o give_v all_o accommodation_n and_o honour_n unto_o it_o the_o truth_n be_v that_o the_o government_n of_o christ_n kingdom_n in_o a_o civil_a state_n will_v never_o do_v any_o great_a thing_n for_o it_o except_o it_o first_o receive_v accommodation_n from_o it_o the_o truth_n know_v no_o compliance_n but_o only_o with_o those_o that_o submit_v to_o it_o whereas_o pag._n 7._o 6._o he_o place_v the_o whole_a representative_a as_o well_o church_n as_o state_n of_o england_n in_o
the_o parliament_n though_o i_o dare_v not_o gainsay_v it_o fear_v lest_o mr._n pryn_n claim_v as_o it_o shall_v seem_v a_o privilege_n to_o make_v the_o privilege_n of_o parliament_n what_o he_o please_v shall_v make_v it_o a_o presumptuous_a and_o wilful_a undermine_v of_o the_o undoubted_a privilege_n of_o parliament_n by_o the_o very_a root_n yet_o i_o must_v ingenuous_o profess_v that_o it_o be_v a_o notion_n which_o i_o know_v not_o how_o to_o procure_v quarter_n for_o in_o my_o brain_n as_o yet_o what_o i_o may_v do_v hereafter_o when_o the_o gentleman_n shall_v bestow_v more_o cost_n and_o pain_n upon_o it_o to_o reconcile_v the_o disproportion_n which_o for_o the_o present_a it_o carry_v to_o my_o understanding_n i_o will_v not_o predetermine_v but_o none_o of_o all_o the_o author_n or_o book_n that_o ever_o yet_o i_o be_v debtor_n unto_o for_o any_o grain_n or_o scruple_n of_o that_o knowledge_n wherewith_o god_n have_v please_v to_o recompense_v my_o labour_n in_o study_v ever_o license_v i_o to_o call_v any_o assembly_n the_o representative_a church_n of_o any_o state_n or_o kingdom_n wherein_o there_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o any_o one_o church-officer_n to_o be_v find_v whereas_o he_o affirm_v it_o in_o the_o same_o page_n a_o truth_n so_o clear_a 8._o that_o no_o rational_a man_n good_a christian_n or_o subject_n can_v deny_v it_o that_o the_o whole_a representative_a church_n and_o state_n of_o england_n in_o parliament_n have_v sufficient_a authority_n by_o god_n law_n to_o over-rule_v and_o bind_v all_o or_o any_o particular_a member_n or_o congregation_n of_o it_o as_o well_o as_o the_o major_a part_n of_o a_o independent_a congregation_n power_n to_o over-vote_n and_o rule_v the_o lesser_a part_n and_o to_o order_n yea_o bind_v any_o of_o their_o particular_a member_n though_o for_o the_o danger_n aforesaid_a it_o be_v not_o perhaps_o so_o safe_a for_o i_o simple_o to_o call_v the_o latter_a assertion_n touch_v the_o comparison_n between_o the_o two_o power_n either_o a_o error_n or_o a_o mistake_n yet_o that_o this_o assertion_n shall_v be_v a_o truth_n so_o royal_o qualify_v that_o no_o reasonable_a man_n or_o good_a christian_a can_v deny_v it_o seem_v not_o so_o reasonable_a the_o reason_n be_v because_o in_o a_o independent_a congregation_n all_o the_o member_n by_o free_a and_o voluntary_a consent_n have_v submit_v themselves_o to_o the_o regulation_n and_o order_n of_o the_o whole_a body_n or_o which_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o major_a part_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o this_o body_n have_v receive_v a_o lawful_a power_n in_o a_o lawful_a way_n for_o the_o reiglement_n of_o her_o respective_a member_n may_v lawful_o exercise_v it_o according_a to_o the_o tenor_n and_o true_a intent_n of_o the_o delegation_n of_o it_o whereas_o there_o be_v many_o thousand_o in_o the_o church_n and_o state_n of_o england_n who_o by_o mr._n prynne_v own_o acknowledgement_n p._n 24._o line_n 3._o 4._o have_v not_o give_v any_o such_o consent_n for_o their_o regulation_n in_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a and_o which_o concern_v religion_n unto_o the_o parliament_n yea_o and_o there_o be_v many_o thousand_o more_o beside_o those_o which_o he_o there_o describe_v and_o intend_v who_o will_v not_o own_o any_o such_o resignation_n therefore_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o one_o case_n and_o the_o other_o be_v very_o broad_a and_o no_o less_o considerable_a so_o that_o a_o reasonable_a man_n may_v without_o any_o dispraise_n to_o his_o reason_n and_o a_o good_a christian_a without_o any_o prejudice_n to_o the_o goodness_n of_o his_o christianity_n demur_v a_o while_n before_o judgement_n upon_o the_o case_n beside_o there_o be_v no_o question_n or_o ground_n of_o doubt_v but_o that_o a_o good_a christian_a may_v lawful_o and_o with_o a_o good_a conscience_n submit_v himself_o unto_o a_o godly_a able_a and_o faithful_a pastor_n together_o with_o his_o people_n who_o he_o have_v good_a ground_n to_o judge_v godly_a and_o faithful_a also_o as_o well_o for_o their_o edification_n in_o their_o most_o holy_a faith_n as_o for_o the_o inspection_n &_o regulation_n of_o themselves_o in_o matter_n of_o life_n and_o conversation_n but_o whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o submit_v to_o any_o man_n or_o any_o rank_n or_o association_n of_o man_n especial_o of_o man_n of_o who_o sufficiency_n and_o faith_n fullness_n in_o the_o thing_n of_o god_n and_o jesus_n christ_n we_o have_v either_o but_o a_o very_a slender_a or_o no_o testimony_n at_o all_o yea_o who_o person_n be_v altogether_o unknown_a to_o we_o in_o matter_n which_o concern_v the_o worship_n and_o service_n of_o god_n can_v but_o be_v a_o question_n and_o that_o of_o great_a moment_n to_o all_o consider_v and_o conscientious_a man_n who_o be_v not_o already_o satisfy_v in_o the_o negative_a part_n of_o it_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o only_o permit_v but_o give_v it_o in_o charge_n to_o christian_n in_o church-fellowship_n to_o submit_v themselves_o one_o to_o another_o in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n eph._n 5._o 21._o i_o to_o be_v yield_v and_o tractable_a easy_a to_o be_v entreat_v one_o by_o another_o and_o submit_v yourselves_o every_o man_n unto_o another_o 1_o pet._n 5._o 5._o if_o one_o man_n ought_v to_o submit_v to_o another_o man_n in_o this_o kind_n much_o more_o ought_v one_o to_o submit_v unto_o many_o and_o most_o of_o all_o to_o the_o whole_a society_n of_o saint_n whereof_o he_o be_v a_o member_n but_o as_o touch_v submission_n unto_o any_o man_n or_o man_n whatsoever_o in_o matter_n which_o concern_v the_o worship_n and_o service_n of_o god_n the_o scripture_n be_v so_o far_o from_o impose_v this_o upon_o any_o man_n that_o it_o impose_v the_o contrary_a and_o that_o with_o great_a emphasis_n and_o weight_n call_v no_o man_n your_o father_n upon_o earth_n be_v our_o saviour_n own_o charge_n matth._n 23._o 9_o for_o one_o be_v your_o father_n which_o be_v in_o heaven_n and_o in_o the_o precede_a verse_n be_v you_o not_o call_v rabbi_n for_o one_o be_v your_o master_n or_o doctor_n even_o christ_n and_o you_o all_o be_v brethren_n and_o the_o apostle_n 1_o cor._n 7._o 23._o you_o be_v buy_v with_o a_o price_n be_v you_o not_o the_o servant_n of_o man_n he_o speak_v of_o a_o servility_n or_o subjection_n in_o judgement_n and_o conscience_n to_o the_o decision_n or_o determination_n of_o man_n in_o matter_n of_o conscience_n and_o religion_n and_o whosoever_o do_v submit_v or_o subject_v himself_o in_o thing_n of_o this_o nature_n unto_o any_o man_n or_o man_n whosoever_o that_o be_v resign_v up_o his_o judgement_n and_o conscience_n to_o be_v order_v oblige_a and_o tie_v by_o the_o mere_a authority_n or_o magistery_n of_o man_n in_o such_o thing_n call_v man_n father_n on_o earth_n make_v himself_o a_o servant_n unto_o man_n and_o consequent_o make_v himself_o a_o transgressor_n both_o of_o our_o saviour_n injunction_n and_o charge_n in_o this_o behalf_n and_o of_o his_o apostle_n also_o three_o he_o that_o submit_v himself_o to_o a_o pastor_n and_o congregation_n of_o saint_n for_o such_o regulation_n as_o have_v be_v mention_v be_v presume_v to_o know_v and_o understand_v beforehand_o of_o what_o spirit_n both_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o be_v how_o matter_n appertain_v to_o the_o worship_n and_o service_n of_o god_n be_v carry_v manage_v and_o order_v among_o they_o so_o that_o he_o may_v with_o the_o full_a concurrence_n and_o consent_n of_o his_o judgement_n and_o conscience_n submit_v himself_o unto_o they_o as_o touch_v communion_n with_o they_o in_o their_o practice_n in_o this_o kind_n but_o what_o any_o synod_n assembly_n or_o court_n of_o man_n will_v determine_v or_o enjoin_v in_o such_o thing_n can_v be_v know_v beforehand_o by_o any_o man_n and_o consequent_o no_o man_n can_v with_o a_o good_a conscience_n submit_v himself_o unto_o they_o as_o touch_v any_o of_o their_o determination_n or_o decision_n until_o he_o first_o understand_v what_o they_o be_v and_o whether_o according_a to_o the_o light_n and_o judicature_n of_o his_o conscience_n agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n four_o in_o case_n a_o pastor_n and_o congregation_n shall_v afterward_o so_o far_o alter_v and_o vary_v from_o that_o posture_n either_o in_o doctrine_n or_o practice_n wherein_o they_o stand_v when_o a_o man_n first_o join_v and_o submit_v himself_o unto_o they_o that_o he_o can_v with_o the_o peace_n of_o his_o conscience_n walk_v any_o long_o with_o they_o he_o may_v with_o leave_v obtain_v or_o otherwise_o if_o by_o request_n it_o can_v be_v obtain_v withdraw_v himself_o without_o any_o inconvenience_n from_o their_o communion_n and_o incorporate_v himself_o elsewhere_o as_o he_o judge_v best_o this_o may_v be_v do_v with_o far_o less_o trouble_n and_o inconvenience_n then_o ordinary_o a_o man_n upon_o a_o dislike_n of_o his_o parochial_a pastor_n can_v remove_v out_o of_o one_o parish_n
sin_n which_o render_v they_o just_o obnoxious_a either_o unto_o excommunication_n by_o the_o church_n or_o unto_o death_n by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n before_o either_o of_o these_o censure_n or_o sentence_n pass_v upon_o they_o therefore_o if_o they_o actual_o cease_v not_o to_o be_v member_n when_o excommunicate_v they_o cease_v not_o at_o all_o to_o be_v member_n or_o at_o least_o no_o otherwise_o than_o they_o cease_v to_o be_v before_o such_o excommunication_n and_o if_o either_o what_o do_v we_o with_o this_o learned_a impertinency_n actual_o but_o 2._o if_o wicked_a member_n when_o excommunicate_v do_v not_o actual_o cease_v to_o be_v member_n i_o marvel_v our_o saviour_n shall_v allow_v they_o no_o better_o quarter_n among_o their_o fellow_n then_o to_o be_v look_v upon_o as_o heathen_n and_o publican_n mat._n 18._o 17._o it_o seem_v heathen_n and_o publican_n may_v be_v actual_a member_n of_o mr_n prynnes_n presbyterian_a church_n yea_o though_o they_o be_v by_o the_o high_a hand_n the_o church_n can_v lift_v up_o cast_v out_o of_o it_o ne_fw-fr verè_fw-la ne_fw-la i_o ad_fw-la tale_n compellite_fw-la coetus_fw-la and_o 3._o and_o last_o what_o mysterious_a notion_n he_o shall_v intend_v to_o let_v in_o or_o what_o dangerous_a conceit_n he_o shall_v intend_v to_o shut_v out_o by_o that_o emphatical_a insertion_n after_o they_o be_v baptize_v be_v out_o of_o the_o hemisphere_n of_o my_o apprehension_n all_o that_o i_o can_v work_v out_o of_o it_o be_v this_o that_o there_o be_v or_o may_v be_v a_o twofold_a excommunication_n of_o the_o member_n in_o a_o christian_a church_n one_o before_o they_o be_v baptize_v and_o another_o after_o and_o that_o by_o the_o power_n of_o the_o former_a excommunication_n they_o actual_o cease_v to_o be_v member_n of_o their_o respective_a church_n not_o so_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o latter_a which_o it_o seem_v be_v either_o more_o indulgent_a or_o less_o vigorous_a and_o active_a if_o this_o be_v mr_n prynnes_n doctrine_n it_o be_v most_o proper_o and_o peculiar_o he_o libera_n per_fw-la primos_fw-la posuit_fw-la vestigia_fw-la princeps_fw-la if_o it_o be_v not_o he_o sensum_fw-la &_o sententiam_fw-la vestram_fw-la o_o verba_fw-la after_o they_o be_v baptize_v whereas_o immediate_o after_o 21_o he_o argue_v thus_o that_o since_o none_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n colosse_n smyrna_n and_o though_o they_o have_v some_o corruption_n and_o evil_a member_n therefore_o for_o we_o to_o separate_v from_o and_o un-church_n such_o national_n or_o parochial_a church_n which_o have_v such_o member_n in_o they_o be_v to_o un-church_n all_o church_n in_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n etc._n etc._n he_o commit_v as_o many_o error_n in_o argue_v as_o a_o man_n shall_v light_o meet_v with_o within_o such_o a_o compass_n of_o word_n for_o 1._o he_o must_v be_v behold_v either_o to_o a_o abundant_a weakness_n or_o charity_n the_o one_o in_o his_o reader_n to_o obtain_v the_o grant_n of_o that_o which_o be_v the_o base_a or_o rise_v of_o this_o whole_a argumentation_n viz._n that_o none_o separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o ephesus_n colosse_n etc._n etc._n negative_a proof_n from_o the_o scripture_n in_o this_o case_n be_v not_o conclude_v but_o suppose_v charity_n shall_v cover_v the_o nakedness_n or_o weakness_n of_o this_o supposition_n and_o pass_v it_o as_o a_o truth_n yet_o 2._o that_o such_o a_o supposition_n shall_v argue_v that_o to_o separate_v from_o national_n or_o parochial_a church_n which_o have_v evil_a member_n in_o they_o be_v to_o un-church_n all_o church_n in_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n have_v neither_o head_n nor_o foot_n neither_o body_n nor_o soul_n of_o reason_n in_o it_o for_o 1._o they_o who_o separate_v from_o a_o national_n church_n suppose_v no_o place_n or_o ground_n for_o such_o a_o church_n under_o the_o new_a testament_n have_v no_o ground_n or_o colour_v but_o to_o judge_v that_o such_o a_o church_n be_v lawful_a and_o true_o so_o call_v under_o the_o old_a as_o they_o who_o now_o separate_v themselves_o from_o circumcision_n and_o other_o judaical_a observation_n as_o superstitious_a and_o high_o displease_v unto_o god_n do_v in_o no_o reasonable_a construction_n hereby_o deny_v but_o that_o sometime_o they_o be_v or_o may_v have_v be_v a_o legitimate_a and_o acceptable_a worship_n unto_o he_o 2._o nor_o be_v there_o any_o sinew_n or_o strength_n of_o reason_n at_o all_o in_o this_o position_n they_o who_o separate_v from_o a_o national_n or_o parochial_a church_n which_o have_v wicked_a member_n in_o they_o do_v therefore_o separate_v because_o of_o these_o member_n more_o than_o there_o be_v in_o this_o they_o who_o avoid_v the_o company_n of_o man_n with_o head_n do_v therefore_o avoid_v they_o because_o they_o have_v head_n there_o may_v be_v reason_n more_o than_o enough_o of_o separate_a either_o from_o a_o national_n or_o from_o a_o parochial_a church_n beside_o the_o wickedness_n of_o some_o of_o the_o member_n of_o they_o yea_o i_o do_v not_o conceive_v that_o ever_o any_o man_n separate_v from_o either_o of_o these_o church_n national_n or_o parochial_a simple_o or_o sole_o upon_o this_o ground_n nor_o do_v i_o judge_v it_o a_o sufficient_a cause_n of_o separation_n from_o either_o mr_n prynne_n himself_o have_v separate_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o episcopal_a and_o have_v give_v the_o strength_n of_o his_o assistance_n to_o cast_v it_o into_o another_o frame_n or_o mould_n of_o government_n whereby_o it_o will_v specifical_o differ_v from_o itself_o and_o yet_o it_o be_v a_o plain_a case_n that_o he_o have_v not_o make_v this_o separation_n from_o it_o because_o of_o the_o wickedness_n of_o some_o of_o the_o member_n that_o be_v in_o it_o whilst_o episcopal_a because_o it_o be_v like_a to_o have_v many_o of_o this_o character_n in_o case_n it_o shall_v be_v torken_v to_o presbyterall_n therefore_o a_o man_n may_v separate_v either_o from_o a_o national_n or_o parochial_a church_n which_o have_v wicked_a member_n in_o it_o without_o unchurch_v yea_o or_o disparage_v any_o church_n at_o all_o either_o in_o the_o old_a or_o new_a testament_n whereas_o p._n 22._o 12._o he_o collect_v thus_o if_o independent_o deny_v that_o there_o be_v diverse_a particular_a congregation_n at_o jerusalem_n than_o they_o must_v prove_v that_o all_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n at_o jerusalem_n be_v pastor_n but_o of_o one_o and_o the_o selfsame_a individual_a congregation_n it_o be_v at_o least_o a_o mistake_n though_o pardonable_a in_o a_o lawyer_n yet_o not_o in_o a_o logician_n for_o 1._o suppose_v there_o be_v diverse_a particular_a congregation_n at_o jerusalem_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v therefore_o all_o the_o elder_n belong_v to_o these_o several_a congregation_n be_v pastor_n of_o they_o except_o we_o stretch_v the_o signification_n of_o the_o word_n pastor_n beyond_o the_o staple_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o presbyterian_o i_o confess_v usual_o do_v to_o help_v themselves_o at_o a_o dead_a lift_n and_o extend_v it_o unto_o all_o manner_n of_o governor_n and_o officer_n in_o the_o church_n and_o consequent_o a_o plurality_n of_o congregation_n at_o jerusalem_n may_v be_v deny_v though_o no_o proof_n or_o supposition_n be_v make_v that_o all_o the_o apostle_n and_o elder_n at_o jerusalem_n be_v pastor_n to_o one_o individual_a congregation_n 2._o a_o plurality_n of_o congregation_n suppose_v it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o all_o or_o any_o of_o the_o apostle_n be_v pastor_n unto_o any_o of_o they_o pastor_n and_o apostle_n be_v vvn_n eph._n 4._o 11._o he_o therefore_o give_v some_o apostle_n some_o prophet_n some_o evangelist_n some_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n the_o apostle_n have_v a_o commission_n to_o preach_v unto_o any_o particular_a church_n or_o church_n without_o be_v make_v pastor_n unto_o they_o yea_o himself_o afterward_o in_o this_o very_a page_n confess_v that_o the_o apostle_n be_v not_o immediate_a minister_n or_o pastor_n to_o particular_a church_n therefore_o mr_n prynne_v collection_n however_o falter_v 3._o and_o last_o the_o presence_n or_o continuance_n of_o so_o many_o of_o the_o apostle_n at_o jerusalem_n for_o a_o time_n for_o that_o all_o the_o apostle_n shall_v be_v present_a at_o the_o meeting_n act._n 15._o be_v only_a mr._n prynne_v gospel_n no_o way_n imply_v that_o their_o stay_n there_o be_v so_o much_o either_o for_o the_o government_n or_o edification_n of_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o jerusalem_n whether_o consist_v of_o one_o or_o more_o congregation_n as_o for_o the_o general_a accommodation_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o of_o the_o affair_n of_o all_o particular_a church_n elsewhere_o this_o city_n be_v their_o head-quarter_n or_o rendezvouz_n from_o whence_o upon_o occasion_n they_o may_v and_o do_v the_o more_o commodious_o issue_v forth_o by_o party_n into_o other_o part_n upon_o their_o spiritual_a design_n as_o god_n call_v they_o or_o give_v opportunity_n so_o that_o there_o be_v no_o