repraesentet totam ecclesiam vniuersalem tamen in veritate ibi non est vera ecclesia vniuersalis sed repraesentatiue quia vniuersalis ecclesia coÌ„stituitur ex collectione omnium fidelium Vnde omnes fideles orbis constituunt istam ecclesiam vniuersalem cuius caput sponsus est ipse Christus Papa auteÌ„ est vicarius Christi non verè caput ecclesiae vt notat glossa in Clem. Ne Romani de elect quae notabiliter dicit quòd mortuo papâ ecclesia non est sine capite ista est illa ecclesia quae errare non potest Vnde possibile est quòd vera fides Christi remaneret in vno solo ita quod verum est dicere quod fides non deficit in ecclesia Sequitur Christus ante passionem orauerat pro Perro vt noÌ„ deficeret fides sua ergo non dicitur deficere nec etiam errare si remanet vera fides in vno solo For concerning matters of faith euen the iudgement of one that is a meere lay man ought to be preferred before the sentence of the pope if that lay person could bring better reasons out of the old and new testament then did the pope And it skilleth not if one say that a councel cannot erre because Christ praied for his church that it should not faile For I say that although a general councel represent the whole vniuersall church yet in trueth there is not truely the vniuersall Church but representatiuely For the vniuersall church consisteth of the collection of all the faithful Whereupon all the faithfull in the world make this church vniuersall wherof Christ himself is the head The pope is the vicar of Christ but not truely the head of the church as noteth the glosse vpon the Clementines which saith notably that when the pope is dead the Church wanteth not an head and this is that Church which cannot erre Whereupon it is possible that the true faith of Christ might remaine in one alone and so it may truely be said y t the faith faileth not in the church Christ before his passion praied for Peter that his faith should not faile therefore the church is not said to faile neither to erre so long as the true faith abideth in one onely Out of these wordes I note first that by the opinion of the great Papist Panormitan a meere lay mans iudgement euen in matters of faith ought to be accepted and receiued before the popes constitution if the lay man bring better reasons out of the scriptures then the pope doth Which saying doubtlesse is the foundation of the doctrine this day established in the church of England in all other reformed churches throughout the world Neither doe we craue more of the papistes then their owne doctors will affoord vs. I note secondly that a generall councell may erre because it is not the catholike or vniuersall church indeed I note thirdly that that church which cannot erre is not the visible companie of pastors and doctors but the inuisible societie of all the faithfull in the worlde Where by inuisible I meane not that any of the elect is inuisible in his corporal consistence but that the vniuersall congregation of the faithfull as vniuersall is inuisible that is to say that no one mortall man seeth or knoweth all true beleeuers in the church In which sense is truely verified the saying of Elias when hee cried out that he only was left alone For albeit it be true that there was a visible church in Iudea vnder the good kinges Asa and Iosaphat euen when Elias made his complaint that he was left alone and although also that Abdias had told Elias that hee had hid an C. prophets by L. in a caue so as Elias could not be ignoraunt of a visible church in the worlde yet is it most true with all this that the vniuersall church as vniuersall was inuisible to Elias and that there were many thousandes of true beleeuers euen then in Samaria whom â—lias neither saw nor knew And therefore did God answere him saying I haue reserued to my selfe seuen thousand men which haue not bowed the knee to Baall I note fourthly that howsoeuer the visible bishops and pastors erre yet doth not the vniuersal church erre so long as the faith remaineth in any one whosoeuer I note fiftly that as in the time of Elias there were seuen thousand faithfull persons whom he knew not euen so were there in those daies when Martin Luther began his reformation many thousandes among the papists that sincerely beleeued the gospel whom hee neither saw nor knew The 6 replie The scripture telleth vs that the church cannot erre For as the Apostle saith it is the house of the liuing God the pillar and ground of trueth Therefore either Gods apostle teacheth false doctrine or els doubtlesse the trueth must euer be in the church The answere I answere that the true church of God which is the mysticall body of Christ doth neuer erre wholly and generally in the fundamentall pointes of religion and such as are necessary for our saluation I say first the true church of God because the societie of the visible pastors are not euer the mysticall members of Christ. I say secondly wholly and generally because albeit the trueth may faile for a time in the pastors of the church yet shall it neuer perish in the elect and true members thereof For though particular churches may erre in particular pointes yet shall the whole church neuer erre in the articles of necessary doctrine Though the elect may erre in part and at sometime yet shal they neuer erre either all generally or any one finally For whom and in respect of whom the church is rightly called the pillar of trueth This my exposition is made good by the testimonie of S. Austen whose words be these SecundaÌ„ ergo Sabbathi non debemus intelligere nisi ecclesiaÌ„ Christi sed ecclesiaÌ„ Christi in sanctis ecclesiam Christi in his qui scripti sunt in coelo ecclesiaÌ„ Christi in â—is qui mundi huius tentationibus non cedunt Ipsi enim digni sunt nomine firmameÌ„ti ergo ecclesia Christi in his qui firmi sunt appellata est firmamentum quae est in quit ecclesia dei viui columna firmamentum veritatis Therefore we may not vnderstand the second of the sabboth to bee any other then the church of Christ yet the church of Christ in the saints the church of Christ in those which are not ouercome with the tentations of this wicked world for they are worthy the name of firmament therefore the church of Christ is called the firmament in those that are firme which is saith hee the church of the liuing God the piller and firmament of truth The like saying hath S. Augustine in many other places but especially where he writeth against the Donatists Saint Chrysostome expoundeth this place of the veritie it selfe
concerning your owne proceedings especially since sundry of them be your owne holy friers I say fourthlie that this storie of Pope Iohn is publikelie painted and this daie to bee seene in your owne Cathedrall churches of Syenna Which painting our newly hatched Iesuites sought earnestly to haue had defaced in the late repairing of that church but the bishop would not suffer them to preuaile I say fiftly that these seuen writers who were all papists and liued so long one after another would neuer haue published one and the selfe same thing to the world if any one of them could in his life time haue learned the contrary to be the trueth The 2. replie They say onely and barely vt ferunt as men say And other graue writers that liued before them all and neerer the time of pope Iohn make no mention thereof The answere I say first that to reason ab auctoritate negatiue is not holden good in schooles and your selues doe often condemne in others that kinde of disputation I say secondly that if these writers had not been perswaded of the trueth of the storie they would neuer haue published it to the worlde because it maketh so much against Romish Religion to which they were addicted whollie I say thirdly that the said authors write of this matter euen as they doe of other thinges Palmerius and Segebertus both haue these expresse wordes Fama est hunc IohanneÌ„ faeminam fuisse vni soli familiaritantum cognitam qui eam complexus est grauis facta peperit papa existens Quare eam inter pontifices non numerant quidam ideo nomini numeruÌ„ non facit The report is that this Iohn was a woman and knowne onely to one that was her familiar friend By whose familiaritie she became with childe and was deliuered euen while she was pope of Rome For which cause some doe not reckon her amongst the popes and so shee maketh not vp the number Marianus Polonus Bergomensis Platina and Carranza alreadie named teach the same doctrine writing vpon the same Iohn And note wel that M. Scotus affirmeth the storie constantly without al ands or ifs And so doth also M. Polonus who was the popes owne penitentiarie To these I may fitly adde that which your L. Abbot Bernard saith the beast saith he mentioned in the reuelation to whom was giuen a mouth speaking blasphemies and to make warres with the Saintes sitteth in Peters chaire His wordes are cited verbatim in the preface to my booke of Motiues The third replie S. Austen auoucheth plainly that the succession of the Bishops of Rome was one of the chiefest motiues that kept him in the catholicke church The answere I answere that succession is of two sorts materiall and formall Materiall is the succession of persons one after another in the same place Formall is the succession of persons one after another in the same doctrine in what place soeuer Now S. Austen in deede writing against the Manichies saith that succession of priestes from S. Peters seate kept him in the vnitie of the church And no maruell because the Bishops of Rome vntill the daies of S. Austen and long after were verie godly men and taught the same doctrine that S. Peter had done before them and so they ioyned succession formall with materiall which if the bishops of Rome would this day performe all godly christians would now ioyne with them as S Austen did in his time For as S. Irene saith wee ought to obey those priestes that with succession keepe the word of trueth The third obiection S. Paule saith plainly that there must be bishops and pastors in the church euen vntill the worlds end Whereupon it followeth that you protestantes haue no church at all For before Luther departed from vs all bishops and priestes for many yeares togither as your selues can neuer denie imbraced our Romish religion This obiection doth so gall you all as ye cannot tell in the world what answere to frame thereunto The answere Gentle wordes I pray you the matter is not so daungerous as ye thinke I therefore say first with saint Paul that pastors and doctors haue euer been in the church since Christs ascension are at this present and shall bee vnto the worldes end I say secondly that albeit the visible church cannot want materiall succession yet cannot that succession without formall yeelde anie sound argument of true faith and religion In regard hereof your owne doctor Nicolaus de Lyra after he hath told vs that many Popes haue swarued from the christian faith and become flat apostataes concludeth in these wordes Propter quod ecclesia consistit in illis personis in quibus est notitia vera confessio fidei veritatis by reason whereof the church consisteth in those persons in whome there is true knâ—wledge and confession of the faith and of veritie So then by the confession of your owne approoued doctor not they that sic in saint Peters chaire at Rome are the true and lawfull successors of Saint Peter but they that confesse and preach saint Peters doctrine I say thirdly that our reformed churches in England are this day able to shew succession both materiall and formal euen from the apostles themselues And therefore our succession is and ought to be reputed farre better then yours The first reply Howsoeuer you wrangle about your formall succession yet is it cleare to all that haue eyes that you haue no materiall succession at all vnlesse you tearme it materiall succession when lay persons possesse the roomes of lawful Bishops For I pray you good sir who ordered your Bishops and Priests in king Edwardes dayes Who sent your Ministers that this day preach and minister your sacraments Can you for shame deny that they were ordered by such as were runnagates from vs in Queene Maries time All the world knoweth yee cannot doe it And yet must you bee sent by ordinary vocation or else confesse that you most shamefully vsurpe that holie function For as saint Paul saith How shall they beleeue in him of whome they haue not heard And how shall they heare without a preacher And how shall they preach except they be sent The answere Our succession is both materiall and formall christian and apostolical as which is consonant to the holy scriptures and to the vsual practise of the primitiue church For first our bishops can proue their doctrine by the scriptures and by the testimonies of best approued writers as I haue alreadie proued in my Motiues and shall by Gods assistance proue more at large in this discourse Secondly our bishops haue mission and imposition of hands according to the practise apostolicall and of all approued antiquitie Thirdly our bishops are made in such forme and order as they haue euer beene accustomed a few popish superstitious and beggerlie ceremonies omitted which of late yeeres had crept into the church that is to say be free election of the Chapiter by
shall ye truely vnderstand that his grace is not consumed with the bit of the mouth Againe thus In principio cauendum est ne figuratam locutionem ad literam accipias Et ad hoc enim pertinet quod ait apostolus litera occidit spiritus autem viuificat Cum enim figuratè dictum sic accipitur tanquam propriè dictum sit carnaliter sapitur Sequitur ea demum est miserabilis animae seruitus signa pro rebus accipere supra creaturam corpoream oculum mentis ad hauriendum aeternum lumen leuare non posse Before all thinges thou must take heede least thou vnderstand that literally which is spoken by a figure For to this end is that which the apostle saith The letter killeth but the spirite quickeneth For our wisedome is then carnall when we vnderstand that properly which is spoken figuratiuely To conclude that is a miserable bondage of the soule to take signes for the things signified and not to lift vp the eye of our minde aboue the corporall creature so to behold eternall light Againe thus Possum etiam interpretari praeceptum illud in signo esse positum Non enim dominus dubitauit dicere hoc est corpus meum cum signum daret corporis sui I may also interprete this precept to be figuratiue For our Lord doubted not to say This is my body when he gaue the signe or figure of his body Againe thus Cum adhibuit ad conuiuium in quo corporis sanguinis sui figuram discipulis coÌ„mendauit tradidit When he admitted Iudas to the banquet in which hee commended and deliuered to his disciples the figure of his bodie and his bloud Againe thus Illi manducabant panem dominum ille panem domini contra dominum They ate the bread that was our Lord he ate not our Lord but the bread of our Lord against the Lord. Againe thus Quomodo in coelum manum mittam vt ibi sedentem tenâ—am fidem mitte tenuisti parentes tui tenuerunt carne tu tene corde quoniam Christus absâ—ns etiam praesens est nisi praesens esset à nobis teneri non posset sed quoniaÌ„ veruÌ„ est quod ait Ecce ego vobiscum sum vsque ad consummationem seculi abijt hic est redijt nos non deseruit Corpus enim suum intulit coelo maiestatem non abstulit mundo Howe shall I reache vp my hand to heauen that I may take holde on him sitting there Reache thither thy faith and thou hast hold on him Thy fathers held him in the flesh holde thou him in thine heart because Christ being absent is also present for if hee were not present hee coulde not be holden of vs but because it is true that hee saith Behold I am with you till the end of the world both he is gone and he is here he is returned and hath not forsaken vs. For hee carried his body vp into heauen yet hee tooke not his maiestie out of the worlde Againe in another place thus Secundum praesentiam maiestatis semper habemus Christum secundum praesentiaÌ„ carnis rectè dictum est discipulis me autem non semper habebitis Habuit enim illum ecclesia secundum praesentiam carnis paucis diebus modo fide tenet oculis non videt According to the presence of his maiestie wee haue Christ alway but according to the presence of the flesh it was rightly saide to his Disciples but ye shall not haue me alway For the Churche had him in the flesh a few daies but now she holdeth him by faith she doth not see him with her eyes Againe thus Sicut ergo secundum quendam modum sacramentum corporis Christâ— corpus Christi est sacramentum sanguinis Christi sanguis Christi est ita sacramentum fidei fides est As therefore in a certaine sorte the Sacrament of Christes bodie is Christes body the sacrament of Christes bloud is the bloud of Christ euen so the sacrament of faith is faith In these manifold testimonies Saint Austen prooueth aboundantly that the popishe carnall imagined presence in the Eucharist is blasphemous and most execrable For first he telleth vs that these words of Christ This is my bodie This is my bloud must needes be vnderstood figuratiuely That is to say that the bread and wine are but the sacraments or figures and signes of Christes body and bloud Secondly hee telleth vs that Christ is ascended and that therfore his bodie cannot be eaten with the bit of mouth as the papistes teach blasphemously Thirdly he saith that the soule is neuer in greater bondage then when shee grossely and carnally taketh the figures and signes for the thinges signified by the same Fourthly he telleth vs that since the signes of thinges be vsually termed by the names of the things signified our Lord doubted not to say This is my bodie when hee gaue but the signe of his bodie Fiftly hee saith that the bread which the other Disciples receiued was our Lord yet that which Iudas receiued was but the bread of the Lord. Which assertion is wonderfull if it bee well noted For if our Lord and maker bee present carnally in fleshe bloud and bone vnder the accidentes of bread and that so long as the same accidentes remayne vncorrupte as the Popishe detestable Faith auoucheth Then doubtlesse Iudas shoulde haue receiued his Redeemer Then perforce Iudas shoulde also haue receiued Panem Dominum Then Iudas coulde not by any possibilitie haue barely receiued panem Domini which yet S. Augustine affirmeth most constantly For first if it were true that after consecration the substance of bread were transubstantiated into Christes naturall bodie as it consisteth of flesh bloud and bone and againe if it were also true that the selfe same bodie remained vnder the forme of bread vntill it were corrupted then let all the papistes in England or els where in Europe tel me how Iudas could receiue panem Domini but not panem Dominum as S. Austen saith that is how Iudas coulde receiue the forme of bread with the fleshe bloud and bones of Christes organicall and naturall body hâ—dden vnder the same and for all that not receiue Christ himselfe and panem Dominum as the other apostles did Let them I I say tell me this and I promise to subscribe If they wil not this doe because they cannot for if they can doe it all the worlde must thinke they will doe it then if the feare of God be before their eies they will acknowledge the trueth that I now defend which God graunt they may doe Amen Sixtly he telleth vs that albeit wee cannot reache with our handes to Christes body which is nowe in heauen yet may we by faith take hold vpon the same Which is the flat doctrine that the church of England this day teacheth of the eucharist For we teach that the eucharist is Christes true body spiritually and sacramentally
these expresse words Mens namque fuit Apostolorum non de diebus sancire festiuitatum sed conuersationem rectam dei praedicare culturam mihi ergo videtur quod sicut multa alia per prouincias ad consuetudinem venerunt sic Paschae festiuitas tradita sit eó quod nullus Apostolorum aliquid huic sanxisset For the meaning of the Apostles was not to make lawes for keeping holidaies but to preach the word of God and holy conuersation I therefore thinke that as many other things grew to a custome in diuerse countries so did also the keeping of Easter because none of the apostles made any lawe for the same Out of whose wordes I do note first that the scope of Christs apostles was this to preach the word of God not to appoint holidays Secondly that the keeping of Easter which is our sabbaoth was after the custome of the countrey Thirdly that the apostles made no lawe for the same Yea the first man in the world that made any positiue lawe for the christian sabbaoth was Constantine surnamed the Great who within three hundred and thirtie yeres after Christ about the 20. yere of his reigne to take away all contention in the church made a flatte Edict for the keeping of Friday and Sunday throughout the yeere Of this none can stand in doubt that shall pervse that fine Oration which Eusebius made de Laudibus Constantini the three and thirtieth yeere of his happy raigne This controuersie by the Emperours appointment was handled in the councill of Nice and immediatly after his decree which thing is euident by the saide Eusebius in his third booke de vitae Constantini and in his fourth booke hee affirmeth plainely that all subiect to the Romane empire were commaunded to abstaine from all bodily labour vppon the sundayes and fridayes Cassiodorus doeth prooue the same out of Sozomenus in these expresse wordes Die verò qui Dominicus vocatur quem Hebraei primam vocant Graeci autem soli distribuunt qui ante septimum est sanctuit à iudicijs aliÃsque causis vniuersis habere vacationem in eo tantum orationibus occupari The Emperour Constantine decreed that all people should cease from al sutes and other ciuil causes and consecrate themselues wholy vnto prayer vppon the Lordes day which the Iewes doe call the first day of the weeke and the Greekes doe terme Sunday as also vpon the friday The learned diuines in Germanie affirme directly that the Sunday may be altered These are their words Nam qui iudicant ecclesiae authoritate pro sabbato institutam esse diei Dominici obseruationem tanquam necessariam longè errant for they that thinke the church appointed the sunday to be kept for the sabbaoth of necessitie are deceiued grossely My third proofe is this Philippus Melancton Erasmus Roterodamus Iohannes Caluinus Petrus Martir Bullingerus and Vrsinus do all with vniforme consent yeelde so manifest testimonie to mine assertion as none doubtlesse that reade them attentiuely can without blushing deny the same Petrus Martir hath these words Quòd vnus dies certus in hebdomada cultui diuino mancipetur stabile firmum est an vero hic vel alius constituatur temporarium est ac mutabile That one day in the weeke must be assigned for diuine seruice it is constant firme and perpetuall but whether this or that day ought to be appointed for that purpose it is a thing that respects the time and may be changed Caluin in his Institutions after he hath commended the alteration of the saboth in the primitiue church affirmeth flatly that the day may yet be changed these be his wordes Neque sic tamen septenarium numerum morâ—r vt eius seruituti ecclesiam astringam neque enim ecclesias damnauero quae alios conuentibus suis solemnes dies habeant modò à superstitione absint Quod erit si ad solam obseruationem disciplinae ordinis bene compositi referantur Neyther do I for all that make such accompt of the seuenth day that I will haue the church tyed to keepe the same for I will not condemne churches which appoint other solemne dayes for their meetings so they be voide of superstition Which shal bee done if they appoint such tdayes onely for discipline and for comely order sake Vrsinus hath these words Summa est alligati sumus sabbato moraliter ceremonialiter in genere sed non in specie Hoc est ad aliquod ministerii publicè exercendi tempus sed non ad septimum vel aliquem alium certum diem This is the effect we are tied to the saboth morally and ceremonially in generall but not in speciall that is to say we are bound sometime to exercise the publike ministerie but wee are neither tied to the seauenth nor to any other certaine day And againe hee saith that all ceremonies appointed by the church may be altred againe by the counsell of the church Againe in another place he hath these expresse words Ecclesia christiana primum vel aliumdiem tribuit ministerio salua sua libertate the church of Christ hath libertie to appoint either the first day or some other day for Gods seruice To what end shoulde I alleage moe authorities for nothing can be more plainely spoken And as the church hath authoritie to alter the sabboth day so hath it power also which Bâ—llinger hath well obserued to appoint for the seruice of God certaine other festiuall dayes as the feast of the birth of our Lord of his incarnation circumcision passion resurrecâ—ion ascension and such like All which is this day verie prudently and laudably practised in the church of England An obiection If this your doctrine were true as you beare the world in hand it is then would it follow necessarily that there shoulde be no difference betweene the ordinance of God and man the reason seemeth euident because they both should be of like authoritie The answere I answere that they are not of like authoritie and I yeeld a double disparitie thereof for first the sabboth day is de iure diuino in generall albeit the determination thereof to this or that day in speciall be de iure humano but the other holidayes are both in generall and in speciall de iure humano Secondly because other holydaies are as well generally as specially appointed by man and therefore may be wholly abolished by the power of man But the sabboth day is generally appointed by God although the limitation thereof be reserued to his church and therefore notwithstanding that the church can limit the obseruation to this or that day yet can no power vpon earth wholly abolishe the same The fourth booke conteineth the description of the third Monarchie that is of the Greekes from Alexander vntill the Machabees CHAP. I. Of the originall of the monarchie and the circumstances of the same ALexander king of the Macedonians for his martiall
credite For the verie inscription it selfe auoucheth roundly and boldly that that which followeth is but chaffe Out of which wordes I note first that the pope hath a long time seduced the worlde with fabulous vanities in printed bookes I note secondly that the foundations vpon which all poperie is built is nothing els but chaffe For to these foundations set downe in the 96. distinction of their owne decrees I doe not belie them reade the place who listeth and he shall finde it to be true the popish Canonists make this plaine inscription Palea Chaffe as if they should say Gentle reader be no longer seduced with such doctrine for that which followeth is but chaffe If any liuing can yeeld a fitter exposition I desire to know his skill I note thirdly that since the papists are enforced by the spirite of God to acknowledge the counterfeite groundes of the very principal articles in their religion published to the viewe of the worlde in their owne decrees and canon lawe euery discreete and wise reader may easily perceiue what credite ought to be giuen to their popish written vanities Decretall epistles Edictes Canons extrauagantes the like wherwith they haue these many yeres bewitched and dazeled the eyes of many men I answere thirdly that although they would haue vs to beleeue as an article of our Creede that Constantine was baptized at Rome by Siluester whereupon they ground many absurd consequentes yet doe most holy learned and ancient writers S. Hierome Eusebius Socrates Theodoritus Sozomenus Pomponius and Cassiodorus affirme the same to be a fable and that Constantine was christened at Nicomedia CHAP. VI. Of the warres betweene Constantine and Maxentius The most religious Emperour Constantinus preparing for warres against Maxentius who had thirsted the bloud of christians and fearing greatly the danger of the battell imminent did often lift vp his eies towardes heauen and humbly requested helpe at Gods hands Being at that time a great fauourer of christian religion and a zealous worshipper of the euerliuing God albeit hee had not as yet receiued the signe of Christes passion he saw in the firmament the euident signe of the crosse which so glistered with fierie brightnesse as he was astonied at the sight thereof While he was doubting with himselfe he beheld the angels of God standing by him and saying thus vnto him Constantine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 O Constantine in this signe get thou the victorie Constantine beeing ioyfull with this vsion and assuring himselfe of the victory against Maxentius made in his owne forehead the signe of the crosse which before he had seene in the firmament So write Eusebius Caesariensis Socrates Sozomenus Cassiodorus and many others of approoued antiquitie Whereupon the papistes would infer that it is lawfull to make images to set them vp in churches and to adore the same religiously For perspicuous confutation whereof with a manifest declaration of the state of the controuersie because it is maliciously defended by some vnsoundly impugned by others of others not throughly vnderstood I purpose to set downe these few conclusions The first conclusion The signe of the crosse appeared to the Emperour Constantine in the firmament at what time as hee was afraid to ioyne battell with Maxentius This conclusion is graunted and approoued by the vniforme consent of all learned writers Constantinus himselfe as Eusebius reporteth affirmed the same to Eusebius confirmed the veritie therof with an oth not only Eusebius but all the world for many hundreth yeares gaue credite thereunto Heereupon Constantinus and other christian kings generally vsed the signe of the crosse vpon the garments of their souldiers so often as they had warres with Infidels and such as were enemies to the name of Christ Iesus For then there was great cause so to doe as since iust occasion hath been giuen to take the same away which thing heereafter by Gods assistance more planly shall appeare The second conclusion Simplie and absolutely to make images for ciuill vse is not prohibited by the word of God This conclusion is to be prooued three speciall waies By the authoritie of holy writ by the testimonie of learned writers and by the generall practise of christian kinges Touching the first God himselfe indued Bezaleel with the spirite of wisedome vnderstanding and knowledge that he might worke curiously in gold siluer brasse in grauing stones and in caruing woode and in all maner of fine worke In the temple of Salomon were grauen Lillies Pomegranates Cherubins Lions and Palme trees God commaunded Moses to make two Cherubines aboue the mercie seate He also commanded to make a fierie or brasen Serpent and to set it vp for a signe Touching the second S. Basill is so farre from condemning the ciuill vse of images that he hath commended the making and the vtilitie thereof These are his expresse wordes Nam magnifica in bellis gesta oratores saepenumero pictores pulcherrime demonstrant Hi oratione illi tabulis describentes atque ornantes amboque plures ad fortitudinem imitandam inducentes Quae enim sermo historiae per inductionem praebet eadem pictura tacens per imitationem ostendit For not onely Oratours oftentimes but euen painters also doe finely pourtray worthy martiall exploites the one sort by their fine oratiōs the other by their fitly pourtraied tables both perswading many to the imitation of fortitude For whatsoeuer the historie doth performe by perswasion the same doth the silent picture declare by imitation In which wordes it is cleere that S. Basill approoueth the ciuill and historicall vse of images Eusebius Caesariensis maketh mention of the images of our Sauiour of Peter and Paul which were not only in his time but long before his daies The historicall vse whereof he neither reprooueth nor condemneth S. Ambrose Gregorius Magnus and many auncient fathers holde constantly the same opinion Touching the third Constantinus the first Christian Emperour surnamed the Great caused after his couersion his owne image to be engrauen in his coyne whose example therein all christian kinges at all times in all ages haue de facto approoued to be good For all kinges no one or other excepted haue their inscriptions and images vpon their gold and money neither were they at any time in any age reprooued by anie learned writer for the same Yea our Sauiour Christ himselfe seemeth to approoue the same when hee requiring to know whose inscription the money had charged to giue to Cesar that which was his owne In fine the reformed churches in Germanie this day allow thereof and the church of England approoueth the making of the signe of the crosse in the forehead of baptized infantes The third conclusion To worship and adore images religiously is superstitious and idolatricall This conclusion is prooued by the expresse commaundement of God For in Exodus it is written thus Thou shalt not make any grauē image thou shalt not bow downe to them nor
consecration of the archbishop and other his associates by the admission of the prince The second replie S. Epiphanius inueyeth bitterly against one Zachaeus who being but a â—ay man presumed impudently to handle the holie mysterieâ— And saint Ierome saieth of Hilarius the heretike that he could neither baptize nor administer the eucharist because he was but a deacon when hee went out of the church And therefore the man being dead the sect also died with him And what are you but deacons Nay what are you but meere lay men For you are neither consecrated after the old maner nor confirmed by the Pope but ye are accursed long sithence by his holie anathematismes The answere I say first that if meere lay men should presume in our churches to handle the holie mysteries they could not escape condigne punishment according to their demerites I say secondly that the want of your greasing and other your beggerly ceremonies can not make the consecration of our Bishops vnlawfull I say thirdly that our bishops are consecrated and confirmed according to the auncient maner of the primitiue church For three thinges onely are necessarie all which are this day God be thanked for it practised in the church of England to wit election of the whole congregation confirmation of the Prince and consecration with godly praiers and imposition of handes Of the imposition of handes mention is made to Timothie Of praiers with laying on of handes S. Luke speaketh in the Actes Of election by voyces of the people S. Peter maketh relation but of popish paltry ceremonies I finde no where any word at all That election ought to be by consent of the people S. Augustine shewed plainly in a most godly and prudent epistle wheÌ„ in the presence of Religianus and Martinianus bishops and of Saturninus Leporius Barnabas Fortunatianus Rusticus Lazarus and Eradius priestes he humbly requested of all the people that by their consentes Eradius might be chosen bishop after his death I wishe the reader to peruse the whole epistle as which is replenished with all spirituall sweetnes But S. Cyprian is so plaine and copious in this point of doctrine as who soeuer shal once reade him with iudgement can no longer stand in doubt thereof And that which I say of S. Cyprian in this behalfe must also be vnderstood of Caecilius Primus Polycarpus and other bishops of Africke assembled togither for this purpose For the Bishops and people of Spaine wrote letters by Felix and Sabinus to the African bishops requiring their aduise concerning the factes of Basilides and Martialis The bishops of Africa with S. Cyprian among other things answered to the churches of Spaine in these words Quando ipsa plebs maximè habeat potestatem vel eligendi dignos sacerdotes vel indignos recusandi quod ipsum videmus de diuina authoritate descendere vt sacerdos plebe praesente sub omnium oculis deligatur dignus atque idoneus publicâ— iudicio ac testimonio comprobâ—tur Because the people hath proper power to elect worthy priestes or to reiect the vnworthy which thing we see descendeth from Gods owne authoritie that when the people shal be present then the priest be chosen before all their eies and so be proâ—ued woorthie and fit by their publique iudgement and testimonie Out of these wordes I note first that the people may chuse or refuse him for their bishop whome they like or dislike I note secondly that the people haue this libertie de iure diuino granted from God himselfe and consequently that it cannot be altered by the power of man which is a speciall point wel worthy the obseruation I note thirdly that the people must giue publique testimonie to the election of their bishop I note fourthly that all this freedome is graunted to the people for the due triall of the life and conuersation of that person whome they must haue to be their bishop Yea this case is so cleere that the great Papist Iacobus Pamelius is enforced to graunt that this was the practise of the primitiue church and continued many hundred yeeres to witte vntill saint Gregory the first of that name who liued aboue fiue hundred and ninetie yeeres after the incarnation of our Lorde and Sauiour Iesus Christ and so long by Pamelius his graunt this was the practise of the primitiue church Yea this practise was of force indeede vntill our disholie father Pope Boniface the third inuaded saint Peters chaire from whome proceeded all idolatrie To this Pamelius obiecteth first that though the voyces of the people were required yet did they not subscribe to the election I answere that that skilleth not because the subscription was not anie purpose vnlesse it had the consent of the people But Pamelius replieth that the bishops were not enforced to admit whomsoeuer the people did require To the which I answere that neither were the people enforced to receiue whomsoeuer the Bishops would intrude vpon them This practise of the ancient Church will some men say is not this day obserued in our reformed Churches of England I answere that it is virtually obserued though not formally For after the election is made by the Deane and Chapiter libertie is granted to the whole congregation freely to declare their like or dislike and what exception they can giue against the partie which their freedome and liberty therein is made knowne by letters affixed in publike place Now that the Bishop ought to bee confirmed by the letters patents of the Prince and not of the Pope which is the third and last thing to be proued I will vnfold to the gentle reader by three important and irrefragable reasons grounded in the verie bowels of that selfe same practise which the papists will they nil they must perforce admit for good The practise whereof I speake is euident in the confirmation of these three Popes Pelagius the second Seuerinus and Benedictus the second For al these three and al other Bishops of Rome till the said Benedict inclusiue were euer elected and confirmed by the emperours commandement Which veritie is freely confessed in expresse tearmes by foure famous popish writers who therefore are and ought to be of more credite and force against the papists then any other authours whosoeuer the names of the Popish doctors are these Bapt. Platina Barâ—hol Carranza Anastasius Bibliothecarius and Onuphrius Panuinius Platina writeth thus touching the creation of Pelagius Nilenim tum in eligendo pontifice actum erat nisi eius electionem imperator approbasset For at that time which was after the incarnation of our redeemer 579 nothing was done effectually about the election of the Pope vnlesse the Emperour had confirmed the same Touching the creation of Seuerinus the same Platina writeth in this manner Vana tunc enim habebatur cleri ac populi electio nisi id imperatores auteorum exarchi confirmassent For the election of the cleargie
and the people was of no force at all in those dayes vnlesse the Emperours or their lieutenants had confirmed the same This was done 637. yeares after Christs incarnation Concerning the creation of Benedicte Platina hath these words Ad hunc Constantinus imperator sanctionem misit vt deinceps quem clerus populus exercitús que Romanus in pontificem delegisset eundem statim verum Christi vicarium esse omnes crederent nulla aut Constantinopolitani principis aut Italiae exarchi expectata auctoritate vt anteà fieri consueuerat id enim ratum erat in creando pontifice quod princeps confirmasset vel qui eius vices in Italia gerebat The emperour Constantine sent a decree to this Pope that whomsoeuer the clergy people and Romane souldiers should hencefoorth chuse for their bishop all people should by and by beleeue him to be the vicar of Christ scilicet if they would Bartholomeus Carranza a dominican Frier hath the verie same assertion ad verbum Anastasius and Onuphrius haue these expresse words pontifices qui deinde fuerant creati consecrati sunt sine Constantinopolitani imperatoris iussione The Popes that liued afterwards were made and consecrated without the Emperour of Constantinople his commaundement as if they had saide in the olde time and in the auncient Churche no Bishoppe of Rome coulde haue beene admitted at anie time vnlesse hee hadde brought letters patents from the Emperour though now the practise bee farre otherwise Out of which doctrine I gather these three euident and most necessarie corollaries First that the vulgar and common sort of people are grossely deceiued when they terme papistrie the olde religion and repute them for the Catholikes For wee indeede are the true and auncient Catholikes and the Papistes are nothing else but flatte Heretikes For this Benedict coulde not bee made Bishoppe of Rome without the Emperours Letters Patents This primacie of the Emperour ouer the Bishoppe of Rome was sixe hundred foure score and foure yeeres after the incarnation of Christ. For at that time was this Benedict made the Pope So then the Bishop of Rome for the space almost of seuen hundred yeres after the incarnation of Christ Iesus acknowledged the Emperour for his superiour and Lorde as wythout whose Letters Patentes hee coulde haue no Iurisdiction For as in ciuill causes many are debarred from their lawfull inheritance and that by the violent dealing of mightie men euen so we catholikes haue beene many yeares excluded from our own churches our ancient and lawfull possessions and that by the force violence and tyrannie of the bloudy Romish antichrists And as temporall men are in time restored vnto their auncient right by iust and godly magistrates euen so were we and are we by the goodnes of God and most christian princes king Henry the eight and king Edward the sixt of famous memory our most gratious soueraigne Elizabeth restored to the old christian catholike and apostolike religion and placed againe in our owne churches the spirituall birthright of vs and our ancestours I gather secondly that our Bishops in England are made and consecrated according to the ancient christian catholike and Romaine manner that is by the Letters patents of the Prince I gather thirdly that Christian Emperours vppon a certaine zeale not grounded vppon knowledge yeelding vppe their soueraigne rights to the Bishops of Rome opened the window to all antichristian tyrannie For in short time after the Romish Bishops became so arrogant and lordly that they tooke vpon them to depose the Emperours to translate their Empires and to dispose at their pleasures of their royall scepters and regalities The third replie The church of God cannot bee without Bishoppes and priests as you haue already granâ—ed and as I haue proued out of Saint Paul but so it is that when yee first reformed the church as you tearme it yee neither had any Byshoppes nor any priests of your owne neither coulde you find any but with vs and in our church when Martin Luther went out from vs. Our church therefore and none but ours is the true church of god This reason is so strong as it can neuer be truly answered The answere I saie first that this reason seemeth to carrie a maiestie with it and a verie plausible shewe of truth and therefore did it a long time fascinate and seduce my selfe yet I trust by Gods holy assistance so to solue it as no papist shall haue cause any longer to glorie therein I say secondly that if our bishops or our lay-brethren had gone at any time to the greeke and East churches they shoulde haue found as good a materiall succession at the least as that of yours at Rome but there was no neede to take so long and so painefull a iourney in hand I say thirdly that our bishops and priests of late yeares were indeede consecrated by such as were sometimes in your church But thereupon will it not follow I assure you that the true church of God was with you and not with vs for no more can be inferred vpon your reason but that there remained a certaine externall face of the visible church still with you that is to say a mingled materiall succession of place and persons without the formall Euangelicall succession of trueth and doctrine The fourth replie How can the pastors of the church be without the doctrine of the church for the church cannot bee without the pastors as I haue proued and you also admitted this is it that I desire to learne The answere The reason hereof is this because God promised to giue alwaies pastors to his visible church but he neuer promised this to put the truth alwaies in their mouthes For this cause saith Saint Paule that God hath giuen pastors and teachers to his church vntil the end but he neuer said that he gaue them his holy spirit alwaies to preach and teach the truth no no he neuer promised any such thing You brag of your succession you say you are the church representatiue that your pope cannot erre but whatsoeuer he defineth iudicially that must be as true as the holy gospel Euen so did the wicked Iewes boast when the Prophet of God reproued them come said they let vs imagine some deuice against Ieremy for the law shall not perish from the priest nor counsell from the wise nor the worde from the prophet Thus did the Iewes boast then and thus doe the papistes boast now But what saith God by his Prophet to these your arrogant and Pharisaical conceites doubtlesse cleane contrary to wit but the law shall perish from the priest and counsell from the elder as if hee had said notwithstanding your great bragges of your priuiledges yet shall ye be infatuated and spoiled of all counsel trueth and doctrine The fift replie The Apostle saith that God gaue pastors and teachers to his church for this end that they shuld not
in clericis secularibus de substantia ordinis nec de iure diuino quia alià s Graeci peccarent nec excusaret eos consuetudo Sequitur non solum credo potestateminesse ecclesiae hoc condendi sed credo pro bono salute esset animarum quod esset salubre statutum vt volentes possint contrahere quia experieÌ„tia docente contrarius prorsus effectus sequitur ex illa lege continentiae cum hodie non viuant spiritualiter nec sint mundi sed maculantur illicito coitu cum eorum grauiss peccato vbi cum propria vxore esset castitas Continencie in secular priests is not of the substance of their orders nor of the law diuine because otherwise the Greeks should sinne and their custome could not excuse them and I doe not onely beleeue that the church can make such a law but also that such a law were for the good and for the saluation of soules that such as would might marrie because experience teacheth that a contrarie effect followeth of that lawe of continencie since this day they liue not spiritually neither are cleane but are polluted in vnlawfull copulation with their sinne most greeuous though they might liue chastly with their owne wiues Out of which wordes of Panormitan who was their canonist their Abbot their archbishop their cardinall I note first that the prohibition of marriage in secular priestes is neither of the substance of the ministerie nor by the law of God but onely enforced by the law of man I note secondly that priestes marriage may be honourable and honest chastitie I note thirdly that the prohibition of priestes marriage is against their soules health as which causeth the priests to sin damnably Out of which notes I inferre this memorable corollary that the prohibition of priests marriage is against Gods law against the health of mens soules and against the good of the common weale and that by constant popish doctrin So then the pope is neuer able to purge himself of his shameful dealing CHAP. V. Of popish pardons and the originall thereof I Haue spoken so copiously of popish pardons in my booke of Motiues as much more shall not be needfull in this place There I prooued by the testimonie of Roffensis Syluester and other popish doctors that popish pardons are not grounded in or vpon the word of god as also that they crept into the church long after Christes ascension into heauen Bonifacius the eight of that name who began his popedome as a foxe continued in it as a wolf and ended it as a dog their owne writers Platina and Carranza so affirming was the first bishop of Rome that euer tooke vpon him to pardon sinne by publique bulles He appointed a Iubilee and graunted full remission of al sinnes to such as would come in pilgrimage to Rome Their owne Platina hath these expresse wordes Iubilaeum idem retulit anno millesimo trecentesimo quo plenam delictorum omnium remissionem his praestabat qui limina apostolorum visitassent ad exemplum veteris testamenti Pope Boniface brought againe the Iubilee after 1300. yeares and gaue full pardon of all sinnes to those that did visite S. Peters Church in Vaticano at Rome after the example of the olde lawe Out of these words I note first that the old iubilee was neuer heard of in Christs church til the time of Bonifacius our Iewish pope I proue it by the word retulit he brought again from the Iewes I note secondly that the church was free froÌ„ popish pardons the space of 1300 yeares so as popish pardons are not yet 300. yeares old albeit sillie people do so magnifie the same I note thirdly that this pope pardoned not only the paine but euen the sin it selfe yea all sinnes whatsoeuer Though our latter papists to hide their shame if it could be do violently interpret him of the pain I note fourthly that this good father Maliface brought again the Iewish ceremonial law I note fiftly that the remission of the olde law which they pretend apishly to imitate was not of sins but of debts lands bondage such like which the pope vseth not to pardon and yet forsooth he would be thought to bring the Iubilee againe Two hundreth yeares after this that is 1500. yeares after Christ pope Alexander the sixt appointed his Iubilee and like pardons not onely for comming to Rome but to all persons in all places wheresoeuer So writeth their own Polydore and Platina accordeth therunto for the rest see my Motiues in this point The first obiection The church of God vsed to giue pardons aboue a thousand and two hundred yeares sithence as appeareth by the great councell of Nice and by other ancient synods Yea S. Gregorie gaue pardon to al those that did visit the churches at Rome The answere I say first that Emperors kings absolute princes common weales independent may lawfully pardon malefactours the due circumstances of times places and persons wel considered and so may one neighbour pardon an other for trespasses done vnto him I say secondly that in the primitiue church such as were notorius offenders had giuen publike scandall to y e church were inioyned by the church to do publike penance for their publike faults before they could be admitted into the church again Which thing is this day obserued in all reformed churches abroad and in all particular churches God be thanked for it throughout the Realme of England I say thirdly that in the ancient churches many yeares of penance or publike exercises of humiliation were ordained for euerie publike grieuous offence Whereupon it followed that when many penitent persons gaue euident tokens of tru internal remorse for their former scandalous conuersation then the church thought good to giue to such persons some relaxatioÌ„ of their so inioyned publike penance which maner of pardoning is plainely acknowledged in the holy councel of Nice These are the expresse words De his qui praeter necessitatem praeuaricati sunt aut propter ablationem facultatum aut propter periculum aut aliquid huiusmodi quod factum est sub tyrannide Liciniâ— placuit sanctae synodo licet sint indigni misericordia tameÌ„ aliquid circa eâ—s humanitatis ostendi Concerning those that haue voluntarily transgressed or for feare to lose their worldely goods or for danger or anie such like occasion as chanced in time of Licinius his persecution to such although they be vnworthie of mercie yet is it the holy councels mind to graunt them some pardon or relaxation in that behalfe In the councel of Arles and in the councell of Ancyra the like pardon is granted to penitent offenders of which kind of pardons the ancient fathers Irenaeus Tertullianus Eusebius Sozomenus and others do often make relation Yea of this sort were the pardons that Saint Gregorie gaue but of late popish pardons that is of applying to whom they list when they list as well to the liuing
say secondly that Gods ministers bind and loose sins by preaching his sacred word of which kind of binding and loosing Christ speaketh in Saint Matthew and in Saint Iohn For when the people of God beleeue in their hearts his word sincerely preached and in their conuersation shew the liuely fruits thereof then doubtlesse are their sinnes loosed on earth and then is that loosing also ratified in heauen then are the wordes of the Apostle verified who saith that the gospel of Christ is the power of God vnto saluation to euery one that beleeueth it then are Christs ministers as the Apostle saith become in them the sauour of life vnto life On the contrarie side when the people will not heare and beleeue Gods worde sincerely preached but contemne it and the ministers thereof then doubtlesse are their sinnes bound on earth and then is that binding also approued in heauen Then are the apostles words verified who saith that vengeance is readie against all disobedience Then are Christes ministers as y e apostle saith made vnto them the sauour of death vnto death What can be a more ioyfull loosing what can be a more terrible binding See the aunswere to the third obiection following and there marke S. Hieromes words I say thirdly that our people cōfesse their sins generally before the minister in the face of the whole congregation according to the holy scriptures Yea in the reformed churches abroad the people vse to confesse to the ministers such speciall sins as most greeue clog their consciences and for which they need graue aduise and godly councell Which christian libertie is graunted also in our churches of England For such as list may confesse their sinnes to the minister priuately and haue both his godly aduise and absolution if he deeme them penitent for their sinnes The replie Your confessions are nothing els but a meere mockery for ye confesse your selues generally to be sinners but ye name no sins at all Againe as in Germany they confesse some sinnes so do they leaue vnconfessed what pleaseth them And this is the scornful libertie which ye grant to your churches of England The answere I say first that we confesse our sinnes this day as the Israelites of olde confessed their sinnes before Ezra and the Leuites As the humble publican confessed his sins when he said O God be mercifull to me a sinner As the prophet Dauid confessed his sins when he said I know mine iniquities and my sin is euer before me Against thee against thee only haue I sinned and done euill in thy sight that thou maist be iust when thou speakest and pure when thou iudgest As the prodigal son confessed his sins when he said Father I haue sinned against heauen before thee am no more worthy to be called thy son And as your selues confesse your sins in the beginning of euery masse I say secondly that your selues graunt that Venials need no confession at al. And yet as I haue already proued the least sin of al deserueth eternall death For thus doth your own famous Canonist write Quibus consequens est posse quem si velit confesso vno peccato veniali alterum tacere Vpon which it followeth that one may if he list confesse one veniall sinne and conceale another Maior and other Schoole-doctors are of the same opinion I say thirdly that by the scriptures vpon which ye woulde gladly ground your confession we are no lesse bound to confesse one sin then another For your triuolous distinction of mortall and veniall sinnes can be found in no text of holy scripture And consequently since the scripture it selfe by your graunt freeth vs from confessing Venials it followeth directly that wee are bound to confesse none at all I say fourthly that your confession is ridiculous indeede as which vrgeth the penitent to confesse those sinnes to sinful men which God of his mercy hath forgiuen already I prooue it because your best approoued writers hold that contrition onely reconcileth sinners to God and taketh away both the fault and the paine But after that we are reconciled to God by only cōtrition and haue both our sinnes and the satisfaction remitted I weene it is a vain and a ridiculous thing to afflict our selues for popish absolution This that I say is witnessed by Martinus Nauarrus by your learned frier Ioan. Lud. Viualdus and diuers others I say fiftly that your confessions are neuer able to bring peace to any troubled conscience but to driue them headlong into desperation For first none liuing is able to make a true confession of all his sinnes which thing is so cleere by the Scriptures that your Cardinall Caietane cannot denie it Secondly thousandes are so turmoiled therewith that dayly they come to confesse the sinnes which they had forgotten condemning themselues of their former negligence Thirdly none of you all can prescribe howe much time or what diligence is inough y t ones confession may be perfit The consideratiō wherof bringeth many thousand souls to perplexitie For you beare thē in hand y t they must confesse all mortal sins and all specificall differences of the same And yet will I gage my life that ye haue ten thousand priestes in Europe yea perhaps in Italie that cannot perceiue the aforesaid differēce and much lesse can the lay people performe it See more hereof in my booke of Motiues The 2. obiection S. Iohn the baptist induced the people to the confession of their sinnes which doubtlesse was not to confesse themselues in generall to be sinners but to vtter euery man his sinnes So is it said in the actes of the apostles that many of them which beleeued came confessing and declaring their deeds And therfore saith S. Hierome that priestes binde and loose Auditâ peccatorum varietate hauing heard the varietie of sinnes The answere I say first that S. Iohn the baptist cannot meane of your sacramentall confession because it was not instituted before his decollatiō But you make smal accompt to wrest the holy scripture if by any meanes it could so serue your turne For as your graund doctor Pighius resembled it to a nose of waxe euen so in good sooth ye seeme to vse it The trueth is this S. Iohn exhorting the people to repentance and to amendment of their former liues euil spent found so good successe in his preaching that Hierusalem and all Iurie and all the countrey about Iordan were desirous to be baptized and in signe of their true repentance they publickly acknowledged their sinnes But that they this did in generall termes and not in popish maner I prooue it by two reasons First because popish auricular confession was not yet inuented but after Christes resurrection as all papistes graunt Againe because one man could not possibly heare seuerally the generall confessions of so manie multitudes speciallie in so short a time I say secondly that with
pope yea which is more to be admired the necessity of auricular confession was not established by popish decree before the said Innocent was pope of Rome so writes their own historiographer Platina The fourth obiection Tertullian and Cyprian who liued aboue 1300. yeres ago do both make mention of secret confession made closely to the priests yea of such sins as the people neuer did saue only that they thoght of thē in their harts Which words can neuer be rackt to publike confession but must perforce be vnderstood of that auricular cōfession which is this day vsed in the church of Rome The answere I say first that Cyprian and Tertullian speake of publike confession which the fathers of the ancient church appointed to be done for publike crimes which practise in some measure is this day obserued in our church of England I say secondly that albeit in the ancient church some deuout people of great zeale confessed to the priests their secret faults desiring their counsel prayers and instruction in that behalfe yet were such confessions voluntary vntill Innocentius neither were they made by all the people neither did they recite all their sinnes but such onely as seemed good vnto them This answer is sufficiently prooued already yet for better satisfaction of the Reader I will confute papists by papists in expresse termes Beatus Rhenanus a popish diuine and a man of great learning though carried away with the errours of his time hath testified this veritie so sincerely and so copiously as more neede not be said herein First therefore he hath these words De publica confessione siue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 facit mentionē cuius etiam Leo papa meminit de poenitentia dist 1. qua maiores nostros apparet aliquandiu vsos fuisse priusquā ista secreta nasceretur qua hodie cōscientiā nostram sacerdoti detegimus vsque ad circumstantiarū omnium minutias quā tamen saluberrimam esse nemo potest inficiari Sane sunt etiam inter iuris pontificij interpretes qui institutam ab ecclesia tradant confessionē igitur quantum conijcere datur illa sumpsit originem ex veteri instrumento haec autē hinc nata videtur quod constitutis quibusdam poenitentiae legibus quib tempus modus singulis peccatis expiandis praestituebatur Canones poenitentiales vocant opus fuit sacerdotem in consilium adhiberi praesertim à laicis He maketh mention he speaketh of Tertullian of publike confession whereof Leo also maketh mention which it is cleare that our ancestors vsed som space of time before this secret cōfession was hatched with which we this day disclose our conscience to the priest til we haue told the least circumstance of al which neuertheles no man can denie to be very good Yea ther be euen amōg them that interpret the popes law who acknowledge confession to be ordained by the church Therefore as I can coniecture the publike confession began of the olde Testament this auricular came vp thus because so soone as certain lawes were made in which the time and the maner were appointed for the punishment of euery sinne which they tearme the penitentiall canons it was needefull to haue a priest for counsell especially to the lay people Out of these words I note first that Tertullian Cyprian Leo and all the ancient writers do alway vnderstand publike when they speake of confession although some of them as Leo were bishops of Rome themselues I note secondly that the ancient church knewe not this late Popish auricular confession as which was hatched but of late yeares I note thirdly that this Beatus Rhenanus is a great papist as who acknowledgeth this confession auricular to be good consequently that his answer is most forcible against y e papists I note fourthly that this auricular confession was ordained by the law of man and neither by Christ nor by his apostles I note fiftly that the confession wherof the ancient fathers speake was of some speciall sinnes but not of all I proue it because Rhenanus saith that it began of the old testament in which it is cleare that all sins were not particularly confessed Let this be wel marked I note sixtly that after the constitution of the penitential canons priests were ordained purposely to giue counsell and instruction to the simple Lay people which in processe of time is brought to a further matter Secondly Rhenanus hath these expresse words Vides igitur necessarium fuisse sacerdotis vti consilio quatenus institutis poenitentiae legibus fieret satis quae laicis non perinde cognitae erant Sequitur caeterum soli Deo confitendum esse diuus Chrysostomus author est Thou seest therefore that it was necessary to vse the counsel of a priest that so the penitentiall canons might be obserued which the lay people vnderstood not But for al that that we must confesse our selues only to God S. Chrysost. is our author Out of these words I note first that the ancient church appointed priests ouer the penitents onely for this end and purpose that they might giue them counsell how to make satisfaction according to the canons which them selues did not vnderstand I note secondly that we are bound to confesse all our sinnes onely to God alone Which Rhenanus though a Papist granteth constantly being thereto inforced by the authoritie of the scripture of S. Chrysostome S. Cyprian S. Basil S. Bede S. Ambrose S. Hierome Tertullian Hesychius Theodulphus Theodorus Bertramus Rabanus and Nectarius all which hee alleadgeth for his opinion Who can wish further proofe Thirdly Rhenanus writeth thus Non aliam ob causam complurium hîc testimonijs vsi sumus quam ne quis admiretur Tertullianum de clancularia illa admissorum confessione nihil locutum quae quātum conijcimus penitus id temporis ignorabatur For no other cause haue I vsed here the testimonies of so many writers but lest any should maruell that Tertullian spake nothing of that secret confession which as I thinke was altogether vnknowen at that time Lo Tertullian spake not one word of auricular confession as which was not heard of in his time So then the holy fathers are wholy against the papists euen by the iudgement of a famous papist Fourthly Rhenanus saith thus Thomas Aquinas Scotus homines nimium arguti confessionem hodie talem reddiderunt vt Ioannes ille Geilerius grauis ac sanctus theologus qui tot annis argentorati concionatus est apud amicos suos saepe testatus sit iuxta corū deuteroseis impossibile esse confiteri But Th. Aquinas Scotus men too much delighted with subtilties haue brought confession this day to such a passe that Ioannes Geilerius a graue and reuerend diuine and a preacher a long time at Argentoratum said many a time vnto his friends that it was impossible for a man to make his confession according to their