Christum And a little after to Bellarmine objecting the dangers which may follow in popular elections hee answereth The danger is not so great ubi conjunctus est Clerus actionem dirigit Presbyterium praesertim consilio auctoritate vicinorum Episcoporum Ecclesiarum accedente And after that Et boni vicini quoque accedant ex ordine Not. 27. fratres alti ex communi officio charitatis si quando opus est prout Ambrosium fecisse Nediolanensi Ecclesiae narrat Theodor. hist lib. 4. cap. 7. In the Primitive times one Church might elect and chuse a Pastor for another and the Governours of one Church were chosen by the confent and suffrage of others Ignatius writeth thus to the Philadelphians It behoveth you as the Church of God to chuse a Bishop Of what Church would Ignatius have the Philadelphians to chuse a Bishop Not of their owne The Church of Christ was guided by the common conâ—enâ— and mutuall agreement of both parts as well East as West as a peares in the case of Athanasiu◠〈…〉 Arian Haec quidem Aegyptii ad omnes ad episcopum Romanâ—â— Iâ—l um scripsâ—â—e 〈◊〉 apol 2. Sozom l. 3. c. 7.10 11. Ignat. ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theod. l. 2. ca. 4. Basil Ep. 48. 〈◊〉 Athan. â—1 occiden◠〈…〉 69. 〈◊〉 Gallis 70. Gall. et Jtal. epâ—se 74. occident ep se See 〈◊〉 〈…〉 Or to fend some sufficient legate to heale the breach that was made and quench the flame that was kindled in his Church at Antioch 〈…〉 Govern ca. 7. pa. 76. 〈…〉 13. Cyyrian meant this of such mutuall aâ—d and concord as might profit the Church and well beseem the servants of Christ but allows not that men should run to 〈◊〉 for helpe against the judgement and acts of their Pastors Cypr. 〈◊〉 Epist 3. 4. for in the beginning of his Epistle he greatly commendeth the Bishop which they had already But he exhorteth them to elect a Pastor of the Church at Antioch as the words before going doe make it evident All Bishops saith Cyprian sunt mutuae comcordiae glutine copulatae that if any one hold haeresie the rest should helpe and therefore he moved Stephanus the Pope to write to the Bishops in France that they should depose the Bishop of Arles and to the people that they should chuse another in his roome Theod. l. 5. c. 23. Cypr. l. 4. epist. 8. See Iun. Eccles l 3. c. 1 Amb epist 82. See what Socrates reporteth of the election of Chrysost Socr. hist l. 6. ca. 2. Theod. hist l. 4. c. 6 See Theod. bust l. 5. c. 8. Sozom. l. 7. c. 8. Socr. l. 6. c. 2. Iun. eccles l. 3. c. 1. Erat sanetum talis politia in Ecclesia sicut membrorum in uno corpore ubi omnia uni compatiuntur prespuiunt medentur Illitici catal test lib. 2. p. 109. Theodoret testifieth In the ordination of a Bishop All the Bishops of a Province ought to be called together Cornelius Bishop of Rome was confirmed of the Bishops of Africk Gregorius Presbyter in the life of Nazianzene affirmeth of the Bishops of Macedonia and Egypt that they contradicted the election of Nazianzene because he was made Bishop before they came Ambrose writeth That his election was confirmed of all the Bishops of the East and West and Theodoret That Valentinian the Emperor confirmed it also Election therefore was not ever made by the particular congregation where the Pastor or Teacher was to administer but other Churches and specially the Guides by common consent were called to assist the Church in that weighty businesse And this the Non-conformists judge not only lawfull but meet expedient necessary in some cases And therefore in many particulars they except against the proposition as none of theirs and against your confident assertion that you were sure the propositions were both theirs when as it is neither found in them nor in any writer ancient or moderne nor in the holy Scriptures And when you peruse the testimonies alledged Rhemists annot in Ioh. 10. §. 1. be judge your selfe whether you did not grossely mistake or abuse your Reader when you cite the Rhemists as if they pleaded for the Parochial election of a Pastour as onely lawfull As for the Assumption It is true the Ministers of the Church of England are not ordained by the particular Congregations where they administer nor is it necessarie to a true and entire calling that it should be so That they be not approved of the particular society is false in many of them for they are chosen by their consent to be their Ministers though not absolutely to the Ministerie it selfe And in case they be not so called it is a maime and defect Parker de polit Eccl l. 1. c. 14. Deducere quidem conantur illi ex majoribus nostris minores quasdam sed absurdas inconsequentes Neque enim si necessaria disciplina sit in verbo Dei tradita idcirco separatio sicubi corrumpatur sacienda sâ—atim est nulla connexionis vi hoc porisina sequitur which should be reformed whether it be through the ignorance of the people or the Lawes of the Kingdome or the pride and covetousnesse of them that thrust themselves into that calling or neglect of Patrons or what else soever But this maime doth not make a nullitie of their calling nor the Word and Sacraments dispensed by them to be ineffectuall For in every Church where the doctrine of salvation is soundly and intirely preached and professed the calling of the Ministerie is for substance true and lawfull The Nonconformists therefore in reproving the abuses of the Ministerie and yet holding communion with the Church of England in the ordinances of worship See Calvin Instit l. 4. c. 1. §. 12 13 14 15 c. doe walke according to their own Principles the doctrine and practice of the Churches of God in all ages and direction of the holy Scritures The Non-conformists reprove the tumults of the people in election without the direction of the Presbyters Whitak de pont Rom. contr 4. qu. 1. c. 2 p. 16. Iâ—a v. admissa est populi multitudo ut vitaretur omnis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ne ecclesia esset 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ut Act. 19.32 Bilson perpet Gov. Epist to the Read Right Apostolick Bishops were such as were left or sent by the Apostles to be Pastors of the Church and Governors of the Presbyteries in every city that beleeved so long as they ruled well and in their stead as their successors to receive charge of ordaining others for the worke of the Ministerie and guiding the Keyes with the advice and consent of such as laboured with them in the Word and Doctrine Id. ca. 4. Without proofe the Church must not beleeve nor regard thy speech and proofe thou hast none One and the same person cannot be both Accusant and Deponent and in
therefore only because if the choosers and ordainers had done their duties they should have made a better choice For being sent by men that have authoritie though abusing the same wee cannot say they have no true or lawfull Ministery for then were all ministration of the Sacraments and other sacred things void performed by scandalous ungodly Ministers and such as by sinister meanes get into these holy places The fourth are of such as are neither sent of God nor of men nor by men but runne of themselves and have no calling at all who are neither Ministers of Christ for themselves nor others Thus farre Hierome 3 Such are Antichristian Ministers as teach false doctrine be set apart to an office meerely of men contrary to the Word of God and live in communion and societie with men professing reall idolatrie as members of that societie though somewhat of God be joyned in this their profession Whereunto may be referred such as being tried are found to be false Prophets censured and cast out of the Church by them that have authority Of which sort are those Hereticks which are condemned of their own conscience and after once or twice admonition are to be shunned 4 Such are Antichristian as be meerely from men dispense onely the things of Antichrist and have nothing of God at all If by Antichristian Teachers be meant false Prophets Thom. Becon his humble supplicat unto God c. written in Queen Martes daies Vol. 2. Purge our temples of all Popish abominations of ceremonies of Images of Altars of Copes of Vestments of Pixes of Crosses of Censers of Holy Water buckets of holy Bread Baskets of Chismatories c. above all Idolatrous Priests and ungodly ignorant Curates Chaloner The Orig. and progr of Haeresie This change of their use by occasion of Altars and other ceremomes which crept in as also by reason of the figurative speeches of the Ancients c. produced in the end a doubt of the change of the substance c. The Pope first Breve in this third and fourth acceptation I grant the faithfull must hold no communion with them because God hath forbidden it and these are false Prophets who have no calling teach their owne dreames minister not the things of God but of men and either never were members of the true Church professing the intire faith or upon their discoverie are cast forth as unsavorie salt And this the passages of Scripture quoted to prove the controversall part as you say doe confirme Whereunto answere hath been given already And the authours of all sorts alledged doe consent for it is most manifest they speake of false Prophets who have no calling teach false doctrine were never members of the Church or springing up and continuing in the Church for a time are censured and cast out that they might not molest tare and devoure the Flock But in this sense the Ministers of the Church of England be not Antichristian that which is spoken against false Prophets cannot be applyed unto them And here consider how plentifull you are in proving that which was never questioned as that the Scripture is perfect to make the man of God wise unto salvation that false Prophets must not be heard or beleeved that the Faithfull must come out of Babylon c. But that the Ministerie of the Church of England is Antichristian and the Teachers false Prophets as the Scripture useth the word in the Texts alledged this we must take upon your bare word or most grievous misapplication of the holy Text. Paul the Fift you say in a certaine Bull sent to the Catholikes in England chargeth them by all meanes not to goe to the Parish Churches or heare their Sermons least they incurre the wrath of God If this testimony will stand in any steed the Pope himselfe doth not esteeme our Parish assemblies Antichristian for then his Catholikes should not incurre the wrath of God by going unto them And what you can gaine by this witnesse I know not unlesse it be to shew that how contrary soever you seeme to be unto the Pope or Antichrist yet in this you consent and agree with him to condemne Christian communiâ—â—â—â—â— in our Assemblies in the holy exercises of Religion CAN. 〈◊〉 p 6 〈…〉 to it 〈…〉 bring 〈…〉 himselves undâ—â— greater curse by using their to agues and pens to raise up againe one part of the Kingdome of the Beast which the Lord before had consumed with the breath of his mouth Nay the sentence of the Pope is milde in comparison of that brand which you set upon communicating the ordinances of God in our assemblies viz. That it tendeth to the putting down of our true King Christ Jesus and to raise up Antichrist againe that bloody Tyrant which bold ignorant censure must needs worke the soule of every sober minded Christian to suspect that in defence of this cause you consulted with furie more than with truth and hoped to winne more with swelling words of vanity than weight of reason But my purpose is to try your strength and for unadvised censures vaine scoffes and mis-application of common received Truths I will leave you to the examination of your owne conscience SECT IV. CAN. Stay against Sect. 3. pag. 16 17. Sect. 2. pag. 14 Sect. 4. pag. 62. Sect. 7. pag. 89. TO worship God in any other way or manner than he hath in his Word prescribed is unlawfull But to heare Antichristian Ministers in false Churches is to worship God in a way and manner which he hath not prescribed The Major No man dares denie I assure my selfe For it is manifest and certaine by the whole course of the Scripture Deut. 12.8 Levit. 10.20 Psal 119.133 Mic. 7.18 Hos 9.15 Ioh. 4.23 Matth. 15.3.4 Col. 2.8 2 Joh. 16.17 Moreover all sorts and sects of writers acknowledge this for a Truth Zanch. explic in Coloss 2.23 tom 4. pag. 319. Luther com in Galat. cap. 6. pag. 871. Brent in Amos. cap. 4. Touching the second part J may spare all proofs and send them to their own consciences That this hearing is a worship the same is manifest and cleere to any that have an eye of reason Howson serm in Psal 118. p. 7. and any light of Religion shining in them None to my knowledge saving a Popish Parasite or two ever held otherwise That this worship is done in a way and manner which the Lord never appointed it is as cleere as the Sun at noon day and cannot with any modest face be denyed c. ANSWER THis is an old garment new turned and the same answer which was made to the former might suffice to this wherein the thing to be proved Bâ—ls Christ. subj part 4 p. 345. God hath not charged us to be curious in searching his Essence but to be carefull in observing his Will He neither takes nor requires any thing at our hands beside his Worship That it we yeeld him according to his Will we
one being knowne the nature of the other may be knowne whether it be or be not whether it may bee or may not bee Wee know likewise that not only good is opposed to evill but evill to evill as covetousnesse to prodigality and this the Philosopher himselfe confesseth So that these propositions must be rightly limited or they are both false Par. in Rom. 10.15 Legitima Vo atio ecclesiae est quae in quavis Ecclesia publica authoritate or dinis causa ad aedisicationeÌ„ instituta Neque umformis est omnium ubique quead circumst intias exterâ—â—s sed libertati Ecclesiae relacta These Philosophicall Rules are impertinently alledged by you for the externall order or government and intire profession of faith are not opposite they may be separated in part and they may and ought to be joyned together The faith and doctrine strictly taken may be intire when the externall order is pure and holy and the order may be maimed and defective when the doctrine is found in points fundamentall And the doctrine may bee very corrupt and rotten when the externall order is observed according to the rule and therefore a Church may be true in doctrin and profession of faith strictly taken when for matters of order it labours under great defects though in respect of outward order and government it cannot be the true Church when it destroyeth the foundation of the faith For if the faith bee taught intirely Rivet in Hosea 4.6 Etsi ad ordinatienem externam nihil ijs deesset se pro sacerdotibus gererent tameÌ„ illos reijeit Dominus Sic Pontificiorum sacerdotes adhuc retinenâ— aliquam ministerij formam externam c. CAN. Stay Sect. 11 page 115. and the Sacraments rightly administred it cannot be but the ministerie in that Church must bee true for substance what other defects soever it labour under But if the foundation of faith be overthrowne or the ministery whereunto men be set apart be strange and meerely devised there can be no true calling or ministery but false and impure If this distinction of a true Church and Ministery for substance of Doctrine in points fundamentall and externall calling and government be denyed absolutely I shall desire you to unty a Knot or two which your selfe have knit The Scribes and Pharisees were blind guids corrupt Teachers false Prophets in respect of their doctrine covetous ambitious and otherwise prophane in respect of their conversation upon what grounds then were they to bee heard because they were called and ordained of God CAN. Stay Sect. 3 page 60. Ier. 2.11 13. 3.8 9 10 11. Ezek. 16.47 48 49 Mat. 11.21 22 2 Chro. 11.13 14. 1 Reg. 12. Hosea 4.6 9. 5.1 â— Reg. 19.10 18 2 Reg. 17.28 Par. in Rom. 11.2 3 4 Dub. 3. Samaria etiam erat de Iudaeorum sâ—nagoga l. cet corruptissimâ— Apostatica Siquidem Jfraelitae ctiam crant de popu o praecogniâ—o alioqui Elias Elizaeus al iâ— prâ—phetae ibi non docuissent that they should preach the Law o God in the Synagogues to the people and exhort them to the observation thereof Is not here the distinction of true and false Teachers in diverse respects Rebellious Indah justified her sister Samaria in some respects and in some other continued the true Church of God From the time that the tenne Tribes departed from the Lord his Temple Paiests Altar c. it was unlawfull to hold communion with them because they committed Iâ—olatry and willfully left the place which the Lord appropriated for his service and sacrifice but still they retained something of a Church and were not to be esteemed altogether as heathens as the very places quoted doe tâ—stifie That the Israelites when they worshipped at Dan and Betheâ— when they committed reall Idolatry with the Calves played the Harlot upon every high hill and under every green Tree forsooke wilfully the place which God had appointed for sacrifice and offered sacrifices in places forbidden rejected the Lords Priests and made of the basest of the people-Priests for that service which the Lord abhorred that they were not more corrupt in Doctrine and worship than the Church of England by the confession of Non conformists is an assertion beyond all credit I may fitly put you in mind what Origen saith of Celsus his workes CAN. Stay Sect. 5 page 39. which you apply to your adversary There is no danger least any faithfull man should bee subverted by your sayings for you talke but reason not yea in your talke you keep no compasse but all men may feele how grossely you mistake Master Ainsworths Arrow against Idolatry I have not seene nor know not how to come by it But if you will bring forth his or your owne darts in this kinde they shall bee tryed and examined by the Word of God You are not afraid not ashamed to write that the Non-conformists affirme the worship of our English Assemblies to be as false and idolatrous as the worship of the Israelites at Dan and Bethel But for proofe you bring the bare testimony of one alone and him no English Non-conformist And if his testimony had been truly alledged can you with truth and honesty charge that upon all which you know is disclaimed by many spoken only by one and he no member of the English societies But that one shamefully abused likewise for when he saith the Idolatry of these times doth equall if not exceed that of Ieroboam he intends the Idolatry of the Romish Synagogues but accuseth not the English Congregations as if they stood guilty of that sin or the like degree For he acknowledgeth the Church of England to be a glorious reformed Church though in some things not throughly reformed as she ought Course of confor page 142. Wherefore saith he for conforming to a glorious Church but in that wherein shee was never raformed And what wonder if all the reformed Churches crept not forth of the Romish deluge equally accomplished Course of confor page 183 What greater wonder than that any should be found free of the smell of that Wine of Fornication whereof they all for so many yeeres were drunke Your pen runneth over almost every where with pernitious I dolatry Aug. Ep. 48. Quis non impudentissine nitatur alie uid in allegoria positum prose interpretari nisi haheat manifesta testimonia quâ—â— lumne 〈…〉 obscura blasphemy and such like out-cries and for colour of what you say pretend the names of men who indeed and truth from their hearts detest your rashnesse and inconsideratnes Whereas if you would be perswaded to talke lesse and reason more and give milder words and bring stronger arguments and deale sincerely in the testimonies which you use you should ease your reader and spare your Conscience SECTION 5. Can. Stay Sect. 5. Pag 37.38 THe Word preached by false Ministers is not that word unto which God hath promised a blessing of encrease Or it is not
in l. 9. cp 9. Aug. epi. 118 119 See Caranz sum Concil fol. 43. Iustin Martyr Tortullian Clomens Romanus Eactantius and others vvere of opinion that no particular judgement passed upon the Saints untill the laft day Sixt. Sen. Biblioth l. 6. an 345. The Pastors of this age spake more unwarily of justification and grace than was meet prayer for the dead was ordinarie the foundation of prayer unto Saints was laid and defended by the teachers themselves with overgreat zeale in the superstitious vigils and frequenting the Sepulchers of Martyrs The former prophanation of the Sacraments by superstitious rites much increased some whereof are abolished by the papists themselves Libertie is taken from the Ministers the Bishops contend among themselves with ambition hatred affecting high titles and precedencie more than the good of Gods Church the pleasure of peace and securitie tooke away all care of godlinesse Now they seeke the reliques of Saints goe on pilgrimage to Ierusalem consecrate Temples to Martyrs esteeme it more religion to build certaine places and to pray in them than in others and to live by prescriptions and will-worship of Monkes c. than to walke according to the rule of Gods Word Now they give themselves to corrupt religion with idle and impure rites Images that were not mentioned in the first and second ages of the Church in the fourth fifth and sixt age were brought into the Church in some parts painted upon the walles retained for Historicall and Rhetoricall use to informe the understanding and stirre up devotion and of some began to be worshiped which Gregory himselfe disliked Monkes kept the communion at home and wanting a priest communicate themselves No publike assemblies could be found in which the ordinances of God did flourish intirely Augustine complained of the multitude of rites and ceremonies which were in his time wherewith the Church was grievously burdened but in the ages following was much more intolerable Of the particular slips and errours of the ancients it is needlesse to say more Here I would demand was this Church all this while thus corrupted the true church of Christ or a fals was the true worship of God performed in these assemblies the true worship or was it pernicious Idolatry If a true Church then a societie T. C. repl 1. pag. 73 wherein corruption of Doctrine and of the Sacraments hurtfull Ceremonies dominion and pomp of the clergie new orders and functions of the Ministerie is to be found may be the true Church of God And what then can you object against the Church of England to prove it a false Church If a false Church Fulk ansvver to the Rhem. in Eph 4.13 all the true Bishops of the primitive Church for six hundred yeares and more after Christ in all necessary points of doctrine agree vvith us and therefore vvere ancestors of our Church In the later times also for every age vvee can name divers pastours and teachers even in the most darke times c. Calfeh against Mar. preface to the reader Greg. epist. l. 7 indict 2 c. 109. Concil Nicen. a but that Councel vvas not generally received Sigth in an 755. Reger Howden continuat Beda anno 792. Feild of the chuteh l. 3 cap. 8. See Calfehil against Mart. art 3. p. 58 69 c. Bilson Christian subject part 4 page 316 317. This vvas about the yeare of our Lord 1160. See Vsser de suceess Eccles History of the Waldenses Daltha Lydia hist Chaloner credo Eccles part 2 sect 2. then either the faithfull were bound to avoide all societie and fellowship with it in the ordinances which a sober minded man will not affirme or all communicating with a false Church in the ordinances of God is not pernicious idolatry The faithfull which lay hid in this corrupted state of the Church and did partake in the ordinances of worship were never held and reputed Idolaters In the ages following the mystery of iniquitie did grow amaine for the worship of Images first began and after was concluded the Pope obtained to bee called head of the universall Church Saints were invocated as Mediators the Communion was mangled and delivered in one kind the merit and dignitie of workes advanced to the prejudice of Gods grace the doctrine of reall presence and orall eating of Christs flesh in the Sacramant by good and bad and the adoration of the Eucharist was taught and received These grosse corruptions prevailed for a time in the Church before they were concluded upon in Synods or Councels opposed by some condemned by others and manfully withstood especially the worshipping of Images During which time the faithfull who condemned these abominations did lie hid in the Church keeping themselves undefiled from these errours but separated not themselves from the ordinances of grace nor gathered themselves into a distinct body After these abominations were concluded the first that separated themselves were the Waldenses Albigenses or poore men of Lyons who withdrew themselves from the societie of the Romane Synagogue and worshiped God in distinct companies according to his will These are reported to be men of sound life and god linesse by the testimonie of very enemies themselves notwithstanding they were most shamefully traduced and grievously persecuted for Christs sake But after this separation made by them If sheepe in a pasture vvhere venemous hearbs are mixed with vvholsome can by the instinct of nature make choise of that vvhich is proper for them and abstaine from the contrary vvhat marvaile is it if the flocke of Christ vvho know the voice of the true Shepheard from the voice of strangers should by the guidance of Gods assisting spirit doe the same Chaloncredo Cameron dc Eccles ca. de schism See Field of the church l. 3 〈◊〉 6 8. Carleton descript ca. 1 p. 8. divers other godly men did patiently endure the tyranny of Antichrist and groaned under that heavie yoake bewailing the misery and reproving the sinnes of the time sought to reclaime others and labour to keepe their owne selves free but did not actually separate from the societie And this as the learned judge was done if not by Gods commandement at least by gracious indulgence Vntill the time of the Trent Councell saith one the Church although oppugned with errours and deceits of divers kinds oppressed with tyranny did not patiently endure the tyranny of the Pope and the impudency of the Fraterculi And though oftentimes before they had thought of separation yet they could never effect it untill that was fulfilled which the Scripture had foretold It is here to be further noted that neither the Waldenses who first separated nor the reformed Churches which in after times cast off the yoke of Antichrist and abolished his Idolatry did make such a pure and perfect reformation in all things as was to be desired And therefore if they be measured by your meat-wand they must all lye under the censure of false and idolatrous Churches who worship God with a false
of God 2. Their qualification for this office their care in execution and other accessories which may be added of man If for substance of office their calling be of God wee are bound to hold communion with them though in the qualification execution and other adhering circumstances some things bee amisse which it is not in our power to redresse This our Saviour Christ hath expressely taught and made knowne unto uâ— both by his Doctrine and example as hath beene shewed already Hereunto this one thing may be added that many Pastors and teachers in the Church of England be called qualified and doe carry themselves in their charges and places according to the direction of IESVS CHRIST the chiefe shepheard of his sheepe and other for substance of Ministery are Pastors and Teachers CAN Stay Sect. 6. pag 79. If to heare Antichristian Ministers bee to serve God in and by an Ordinance If in preaching the truths of the Gospel in a false Church no Idolatry bee done then may a man vvorship God in a vvay of his ovvne devising blamelesse Id. §. 5. page 77. way or institution devised by Idolaters and with Idolaters then it is unlawfull But the first is true Therefore the second The proposition is undeniable by the Treatisers owne confession you should have said the assumption for if the Treatisers words prove ought they must be applyed thereunto As for the proposition they speake not to it at all But forwardnesse here and in many other places hath made you forget your tearmes of Art He that heares the Ministers of the Bishops sending and of the Parishes sent to he heares in the sense of the Scripturs false Prophets Id page 81. Such as hearken to Antichrists Ministers do therein approve of Antichrists unlavvfull povver over the false Church and the Divels donation or his putting of that povver into his eldest sonâ— hâ—nd Id. §. 6. p. 84. But it is not lawfull to heare false Prophets The Major is proved clearly in defencâ— of our twelfth objection The Minor is certaine by these reasons 1. The hearing of false Prophets is forbidden in the word of God c. ANSWER You busie your selfe to weave the Spiders web which is good for little long in weaving but soone swept downe Our Ministers be not Antichristian Ministers nor false Prophets in the Scriptures sense because they preach the whole counsell of God in all points necessary to salvation and rightly dispense the seales of the Covenant by authoritie derived from Jesus Christ the Lord and King oâ— his Church the great Shepheard of his Sheep At least they are set apart to this office which was never deemed Antichristian in the Church of Christ But if we take these words Antichristian Ministers and false Prophets in your sense for you use them in a peculiar dialect then it is not only lawfull but necessary to heare such as you call Antichristian Ministers For it is commanded in the word and acceptable service unto God the meanes to build up the Church It is to hold communion with God to reverence his name to lay hold upon Christ and lodge him in our bosome It sheweth that a man is one of Christs sheep because hee heareth his voice and a member of his sheepfold the servant of the most high God it manifesteth love and zeale to God and is ordinarily blessed to the soul and conscience of the dutifull hearer And in that which you alledge to the contrary you misalledge Scripture speak evill of the truth revile the heritage of the Lord and grievously wound your owne conscience The religion professed and worship performed in our assemblies is true not only in respect of the object but of nature use and end and whatsoever circumstances are necessarilie required to lawfull worship And the false Prophets mentioned in Scripture are of one sort yours of an other even the true Ministers of Jesus Christ But let us turne over to the twelvth objection to heare the cleare proofe of that which here you affirme for thither you send us CAN Stay §. 12. p. 116 117. The Treatiser as you call him propounding this objection of yours that the Scriptures of the old and new Testament warne Gods people of false prophets which the Ministers of that Church are having an unlawfull calling maketh answer 1 By denying that the Scriptures warn men simply not to hear false Prophets i.e. any false prophet whatsoever And then propounds a distinction of fals Prophets that some fals Prophets were in the Church of God and these might be heard as they had place in the Church till they were orderly repressed or at least discovered others were not in the Church but simply without and these were not to be heard This is the plaine and direct answer of the Treatiser as every man may perceive that is not grosly ignorant or wilfully blind But see how you jest and dally with it unconscionably when you had nothing to answer 1. You say he peremptorily denyeth the whole objection and so consequently affirmes that all false Prophets may be heard But what new Logicke is this whereby we may learne to draw such consequences In former times it hath beene thought reasonable to deny an universall negative or affirmative proposition when they hold not true in all Individuals No false prophet is to be heard This proposition may justly be benyed if any false Prophet may be heard though all might not 2 You adde presently and with the same breath He unsaith what hee said before But this is a palpable and grosse calumny For he said not that all false Prophets might be heard by all nor denyeth what hee granted at the first that some may be heard but plainly implyeth a distinction of false Prophets which I can hardly thinke you did not perceive though you be pleased so to pervert his words If there appeare any deep and inextricable riddle in the words you may fitly apply to your selfe what in this very place you report of Marcus Antonius's souldiers who unawares fell upon an hearb that greatly distempered their heads You tell us Id pag. 116. The Treatiser since he lighted upon his Gourd he is not like himselfe in his other writings and I can easily believe it for in his other writings for separation he is insolent censorious scornfull and slighty In this mild Christian and for the most part more substantiall As you deale with your Treatiser to scorne what you cannot answer so you doe with others in this very argument and that much more absurdlie Master Br. in maintenance of the Ministerie of the Church of England The unreasonab of separation p. 2 3 4 7. as it is established by Law distinguisheth betweene the substance of the Ministerie and the execution thereof the essentiall parts of the Ministery and some accidentall circumstances adhering unto them by man For substance saith he the present Ministerie of our Church assemblies is the very Ministerie which Christ hath set in
or standing of honour in the house of GOD have they cause to aske pardon of this also if they shall thinke their ministerie may be effectuall to the faithfull A Minister lawfully called say you according to Christs institution is incontinently upon his outward lawfull calling a true Minister let his practices afterward be good or bad Put case then the Church should accuse such a Minister utterly neglecting his charge or inclining to say Masse and Mattens or loose and scandalous in behaviour as unworthie his place and office have they just cause to crave pardon of him because they acknowledged him to be a Minister but unworthily Many abuses not to be tolerated may cleave to the Ministery when the ministerie it selfe is not to be cast off as altogether ineffectuall SECTION 9. CAN Necess of Separ pag. 27.28 The Learned generally affirme Rhem. annoâ— in Iâ— 10. anno 1. and in 1. Cor. 10. Sect. 22. that it is unlawfull to communicate in a false ministery Par. Com. in Matth. 7.15 All those without doubt are to bee taken for deceivers who take upon them the office of teaching without a true calling and a little after he saith That so much being discouered 〈◊〉 Christian must 〈◊〉 hid â—are against them Dow. in a Reg. 5. v. 19. and Psal 15. p. 56. Admon 1. to the Parliament p. 27. T. C. reply 1. pag. 83.155 CAN. Stay p. 5.62 63 71 113 118 119 c. and flye from them as from Wolves Musculâ—â— in Matth. 7.15 saith the like Cope in Prov. 10.20 speaketh as much and giveth this reason for it because they destroy both bodies and soules of aâ— many as eâ—t her beâ—eeve or reverence them Zanch in Phil. 3.2 Ralloc com in 1 Thes 5.11 page 228. Riv. in Psal 16. page 52.53 Oecolamp in Isa â—â—2 fol. 20. Cal. in Psal 16. Fen. in Song 1.6.7 Cornel. a Lapid Com. in Iohn Ep. 2. page 505. saith False Ministers are favoured and approved in their unlawfull way when they are boundâ— Par. in Hosea 13.2 Sedul in 2 Reg. 5. Mâ—â—ty loc comâ—p 119 Virels Grounds in lib. 2. p. 103. Zanch in â—rac 3. p. 534. ANSWER Blaming your Treatiser that he comes so naked into the field CAN Stay Sect. 12. p. 119. you say I never saw in my life an error held by a man of Learning that hath lesse brought to countenance it than this For whereas others doe commonly quote Scriptures albeit mis-applyed and alledge for themselves the judgements of other men Hieron in Psalm 5. Omnâ— qui maâ—è intillig it Scripturas in via Dei corruit He goeth not this way to worke And better it is to goe plainely and simply to worke in the defence of his cause than to wrest Scripture mis-alledge Authors and abuse a show of Learning to seduce and beguile the simple But you have made choyse of the more common though the most sinfull course You pretend Scriptures but handle them amisse Quote Authors but chop and change their words force them to speake what they never meant and when all is done they will bee found to make nothing for but direct against you Ambr. Intus in animo perdant modo victores abscedant CAN. Necess of Separ p. 227. Tertul. de Virgi veland If Christ wâ—re ever afore all the truth is as ancieâ—â— and everlsting You make use of Logicall Maximes and Theologicall Principles but your mistakes are grosse and palpable in the application of them Some men you say in matters of controversie care not though they lose the peace of Conscience so they may gaine their supposed victory And if you have not offered violence to your Conscience in those writings you have not advisedly considered what you have done To make this manifest in some particulars not formerly mentioned It is an infallible Maâ—ime you say as Doctor Vsher and others observe out of Tertulliâ—n Whatsoever is first that is truest and what comes after is adulterate CAN. Stay sect 2. p. 14. Vsher de Christ Eceles success stat c. 1. p. 19 Field of the Ch. lib. 2. c. 5. page 49. CAN. Stay sect 2. p. 11. For with reverence to the phrase From the beginning it was not so Basil ep 79. Non est aequum ut quae apud ipsos obtinuit consuetudo pro lege canone habeatur rectae doct inae Henry Answ first ans p. 31. I grant your Church is ancient but I deny it to be most ancient seeing then the most ancient by your own grant is most true c. CAN. Stay sect 4. p. 27. T. C. repl 1. p. 79. D. T. W. The Doctors of the Synod 5.6 Warres are judged by their causes and not by their consequences Bilson Christian subject part 3. page 201. The first in any kind or sort of things is truest and best so Field This is spoken of the prime first originall being of each thing which is a sure proofe of goodnesse and perfection For all defects found in things are swarvings declinings and departures from their originall and first estate For truth is before false-hood and good before evill and habite before privation But you miserably apply that Rule to the first judgment of the separated Church in London concerning the hearing of the Word preached in our English Assemblies as if it must bee truest because it was first and their after judgement adulterate because it followed You distinguish not betwixt the effect and the event which I will not say was done ignorantly or unadvisedly To reason from the effect of things you say is unsound and unconcludable by the Scriptures This is as if a man would say the Midwives which lyed to Pharoah did much good to the Israelites c. And then you goe forward to produce testimonies that things are to be esteemed by their causes and not by the event and that things are not true because usefull But your Pistoler argueth from the effect not from the event from the proper effect not the effect by accident as you might easily perceive but that you tooke liberty to deride what you could not answer Thus he argueth The Doctrine taught in the Church of England is the sound and true doctrine of salvation profitable to beget faith and to build men forward unto life eternall not by accident but of it selfe and is ordinarily blessed of God to that end and purpose Therefore it is not unlawfull to heare the word preached in their assemblies What you talke of Caines murder Iudas his Treachery the good that comes by Schismes and Heresies is only to please your selfe with by-matters for the argument is drawne from the proper effect in respect of meanes instituted appointed and blessed of God This Canon is true if truly applyed and rightly limited CAN. Stay sect 4. p. 20. and sect 10. p. 111. parium par ratio est contrariorum eadem est ratio But as you apply it no good Logician would acknowledge it For though the
word which doth ordinarily beget men unto God ought to bee heard yet wee cannot conclude on the contrary the word which doth not ordinarily beget is not to bee heard For the word is but a morall cause or instrument of faith and repentance whereby the Spirit worketh not necessarily but at pleasure If therefore the Spirit worke by the word as his instrument it is of God and wee are bound to heare it But if God worke not by it effectually to saving conversion it is of him notwithstanding So this affirmative is true sinne deserâ—eth death but this negative will not follow on the contrary good works deserve life For of justice death is due to the sinner as his wages but eternall life is the gift of grace The Papists argue thus Disgrace done to an Image tendeth to dishonour God and therefore by the Rule of Contraries Honour done to an Image tendeth to the honour of GOD. Their inference and yours turne both upon the same hinges And I might truly say unto you in your owne words Ibid. Have you not here shewed your selfe an acute disputer for to pull downe Bethel you build Babell to condemne the true hearing of Gods Word you commend Idolatry Consider therfore your owne reasons and be not so rash and hastie to disgrace your brethren Your obscure translating of Philosophicall Canons CAN. Stay Sect. 2. pag 54. CAN. Stay Sect. 9. pag. 100. I will passe over as Relata sunt simul natura which you English thus Relations in nature are alike and apply it as strangely Qualis causa tale causatum you translate thus As is the cause so that which is caused of the doing of the thing Idem qua idem semper facit idem which you render As is the same so alwayes followes the same effect whereby you turne principles or Canons at least into riddles and it is hard to say whether your interpretation bee more obscure or misapplication unreasonable to speake in your language as vaine as ever man made For that which is spoken of causes univocall necessary and proper at least that you referre to morall instruments as if the word preached by wicked instruments might not bee effectuall or a man could not heare an ungodly Minister preach the Gospell but he must partake in his sin CAN. Stay Sect. pag. Sect. 3.16.17 Id. Sect. 4. pag. 28. sect 5. p. 40. sect 1. p. 49. sect 4. p. 62.63 67 72 73 74 75. You are large in proving what is not questioned as that God must bee served as he hath appointed That it sufficeth not to intend a good end but the meanes must bee lawfull That men must not bow their knees to an Idol under pretence that they reserve their hearts unto God That wee must bee earnest and zealous against Idolatry That the matter of worship must be grounded on the word Consciences shall never find any sure port to run unto but only God Calf p. 22. and that it must be done in a right and lawfull manner order form or way That the law of God is the rule of conscience That custom must not prescribe against truth That we must not doe evill that good may come thereof with other the like which you know well your Opposites do believe and maintaine But that God is not worshipped in our assemblies as he hath appointed That to heare the word preached in our congregations is pernicious Idolatry that the means therein be unlawfull that the ministerie is Idolatrous or the worship vaine that you prove not either by Scripture or any learned approved Author whatsoever you bring in both your bookes to this purpose besides your own peremptorie actions may be shut up in few words The Authors which you quote are oftimes abused you mangle their words and make them seeme to speak what they never meant or intended CAN Stay sect 3. p. 57. The truths they teach you say speaking of the Ministers of the English Church are from God but the office which gives them power and charge to speake them is from Antichrist and a speciall character or marke as the learned write of the beast Simon on Rev. pag. 120. Acts Mon. edit 5. pag. 588. On Rev. ca. 14.9 Though Priests Deacons for preaching Gods word ministring the sacramets with provision for the poor bee grounded on Gods law yet have these sects no manner of ground thereof L. Cobh Act. and Mon. p. 514 5â—5 Thus said Iohn Chaydon a Martyr of Christ The Bishops licence to preach the Word of God is the true character of the beast that is of Antichrist The like M. Bale and others But no word sounding that way is to be found in M. Simons Since their law of Confirmation was made saith hee the Bishop with the Chrisme doth signe the partie in the forehead with the character of the crosse And since they made their new office or sacerdotall thus they make their cate chumine The child or partie is brought to the Church doores where the Priest maketh a crosse with his thumb on the forehead of the childe and at the font the priest maketh a crosse in the right hand of the child c. Thus this Author but to your purpose not one word M. Bale was so farre from condemning the office of Bishops simply as Antichristian that hee himselfe was Bishop of Osyris in Ireland And how likely it is then that he should absolutely condemne a Bishops licence to preach the Gospell of Jesus Christ in the Churches of Christ as the mark and Character of the beast let any man judge What he might condemn in some respect and consideration in popish bishops as they stand sworne slaves to that Antichrist of Rome that cannot be drawn to the testimonie of Bishops CAN Neces of separ p. 25â— who have cast off the authoritie and renounced the doctrine of Antichrist And the same may bee answered to the testimonie of John Châ—ydon You many times repeate that upon the Nonconformists grounds to returne unto the service in the Church of England is to joyne with Idolaters in Idolatry This no doubt is a vehement accusation if it can be proved if it be rashly surmised then it is as pestilent a slander But ground out of the Nonconformists for such conclusions you have shewed none nor once take notice of that which is alledged to the contrarie which you could not but see if you could have found any exception against it They doe not deny but there is a visible Church of God in England and therefore your saying of them that they doe almost in plaine and flat tearmes say that we have not so much as any outward face and shew of the true Church argueth that you have almost no love in you which upon one word once uttered contrary to the tenour of their booke T.C. repl 1. p. 8. Vnreasonab of separation p. 81. and course of their whole life surmise this of them Thus a chiefe Nonconformist
negligence unjust usurpation or the like The right of government in Christs name belongeth unto them because it flowes from the ordinance and constitution of Christ as a proper adjunct which cannot be separated from the subject But the action it selfe of government may be n A disput part 3. c. 8. p. 189. When we teach that the Pastour or Pastours of every particular Church or congregation with the Elders of the same being met together have power to bind and loose we understand this onely of such places wherein a competent number of understanding and qualified men may be had to make up an Eldership hindred divers wayes when the being of the Church is not destroyed The Pastours and Teachers may be ignorant of their priviledges and so give away that which of right belongeth unto them or they may be negligent in the execution of their office and not heedfully attend to the Ministery committed unto them The greater part may prevaile against the better or some few may usurpe into their owne hands the power which belongeth unto the Societie which being once gained cannot easily be regained or redeemed in which cases the lawfull action of government is hindred when yet the Church remaineth the true Church of Christ Thus it hath been with the o Ambros in 1 Cor. cap. 5. The Apostle decreed that by the consent and in the presence of all men hee should be cast out of the Church c. Church of God in all ages ever since there was a Church upon the face of the earth And from this fountaine have sprung the errors abuses and corruptions which have prevailed in the Church of God For if p Hieron ad Heâ—iodor in Id. ad Reparium advers Vigilantium disorders get head of necessitie the action of government is some way hindred or neglected Now to your Assumption First Every particular q August contr eâ— Parm. lib. 3. c. 2. Societie of beleevers in the Church of England or singular Pastour of this or that Congregation hath not the power of government neither doth it of right or by divine gift belong unto the communitie of the faithfull or one singular Pastour Secondly The power of Government as it consisteth in discerning betwixt the precious and the vile admonishing the inordinate and excommunicating the obstinate is considered either in respect of the substance parts and duties thereof or in respect of the ordering and administration by such persons and in such a course This distinction must be granted or else all the Churches which administer discipline amisse in any circumstance at any time must be charged to have no discipline at all and they that commit the administration of discipline to persons in mens opinion not designed by Christ not to have the discipline of Christ for substance For example they that commit the execution of discipline to the Presbytery or Classis have not the discipline of Christ in the judgement of the Separation because Christ as they say hath committed it to the communitie or body of the Societie And they that commit the power of government to the r Chrysost in Math. Hom. 83. No small vengeance hangeth over your heads if you suffer any hainous offender to be partaker of this Table people or communitie joyntly with the Elders in the judgement of reformed Churches have not the discipline of Christ because he hath committed it to the Presbytery And every act of government may be excepted against as a nullity because in some circumstance or other the order prescribed by Christ is not fully observed This then considered the Church of England is not without the s If any Prince would be baptized or approach to the Lords Table with manifest shew of unbeliefe or irrepentance the Minister is bouÌ„d freely to speak and rather to lay downe his life at the Princes feet then to let the King of Kings be provoked the mysteries defiled his own soule and the Princes endangered for lacke of often and earnest admonition discipline of Christ for substance whether the word be taken largely or strictly whether we respect right or execution but the outward forme and ordering of the discipline is not in all things according to the Word of God Iâ— by divine right the power of government belongeth either to the societie of Church-governours or the communitie of the faithfull it belongeth also to the Pastours Teachers Elders Assemblies among us As for the execution of discipline largely taken all men know the Word is truely preached and the Sacraments are duely and rightly t Bilson Christian subj part 2. p. 302. If you meane they may not minister the Sacraments unto Princes without faith repentance which God requireth of men that shall be baptized or have accesse to his Table we grant they must rather hazzard their lives than baptize Princes which beleeve not or distribute the Lords mysteries to them that repent not Bilson Christ subj part 3 p. 2. part 3. p. 248. If the Prince will not submit himselfe to the rules and precepts of Christ but wilfully maintaine heresie open impurity the Bishops are without flattery to reprove and admonish the Prince of the danger that is imminent from God and if he persist they must cease to communicate with him in divine prayer and mysteries Bils Ch. sub part 3. pag. 63 64. 74. administred and in what societie soever God is truely worshipped of necessitie the discipline of Christ is in some sort observed If we speake of discipline more strictly all men know the Church of England by doctrine professeth by Law hath established and daily practiseth for substance the execution of the very discipline of Christ The ordering and administration of the censures as it is in the Church of England is faultie and corrupt and how the godly have laboured according to their places the redresse of that evill is not unknowne to the world in part But the want of due execution of discipline or disordered administration thereof doth not argue the Church to want discipline but the due ordering of discipline nor to be no Church but to be defective and much out of order In the Church of the Jewes in the old u Jer. 20.1.2 3. 29.26 27 Mat. 10.17 Iude v. 4.7.8.10 Testament there was many times great neglect of discipline and abuse thereof In the Churches of the New Testament as in Corinth Galatia the Churches to which James and Jude wrote and Rome the execution of discipline could not take place or was much neglected Diotrephes usurped over the Church and corrupted the discipline when the Church continued the true Church of Christ and the faithfull abode in that societie This instance Dr Ames truely alledged to shew that the reprovers of abuses doe not lay the foundation of schisme or separation from the Church which x Can. Neces of Separat pag. 163. you doe well to spurne at because you know not how to remove it For
this the Norâ—â—â—formists doe both teach and practice and therefore they have humbly sued for reformation but never either practised or approved your separation That which you cite out of the Harmony of confessions as if the reformed Churches did allow or teach what you practice I will set downe and leave it to every man to judge of your fidelitie The Church k Gallic confest art 26. None but Princes can give freedome and protectioÌ„ to these spirituall functions and actions Bilson Christian part 2. pag. 309. Gallican saith thus Credimus igitur nemiâ—â—â— licerâ— sese catibus subducerâ— in seipso aequiescere sed patius 〈◊〉 sâ—â—â—il tuendam conservandam esse Ecclesiae unitatem sese communi institutioni jugo Christi subijciendo ubjcunque Deus verâ—â—n illam disaiplinam Ecclesiastioâ—n constistuerit etiamsi Magistratuum edicta reclament à quo oxdiâ—â— quicubque seipsos seiâ—â—gunt ordinationi Dei resistant Psal 5. 42. Ephes 4.11 Act. 4.19 5.29 Heb. 10.25 And the l Belgic confessart 28. Without the helpe of Princes though the faith and Canons of Christs Church may bee privately professed and observed of such as be willing yet can they not be generally planted or setled in any kingdome nor urged by publique Lawes externall punishments on such as refuse but by their coÌ„sents that beare the sword Bils ibid. pag. 327. Id. part 3. pag. 296. If you will have the assistance of the Magistrates sword to settle the truth and prohibites errour and by wholesome punishments to prevent the disorder of all degrees that authoritie lieth onely in the Prince Belgick thus Credimus qued cum sacer hic caetus congregatio sit corum qui servari debent salus nulla sit extra eam neminem cujuscunque dignitatis aut nominiâ— is fuerit sese ab ea-subducere aut segregari debere ut sua tantuâ— consuâ—tudine contentus solus ac separatim vivat Sed conâ—â—a â—â—â—es as singulos teneri huic caetui se adjungere Ecclesiae unitatem sollicitè conservare seque illius tum doctrinae tum disciplinae subjicere collum denique Christi jugo sponte submittere tanquanâ— communia ejusdem corporis membra adificationi fratrum inservire prout Deus unicuique sua dona fuerit largitus Porro ut haee melius observentur omnium fidelium partes sunt sese juxta Dei verbum ab eis omnibus disjungere qui sunt extra ecclesiam constituti huicque fidelium caetui ac congregationi sese adjungere ubicunque illam Deus constituerit et si id contraria principum vel Magistratuum edicta prohibeant indicta etiam in eos capitis mortis corporcae poenâ qui id fecerint Quicunque igitur à vera illa Ecclesia recedunt aut sese illi aggregare recusant apertè Dei mandato repugnant Thus the Conclusion CHAP. IV. SECT I. ALL true visible Churches gathered and planted according to Gods Word Can. Neces of Separat pag. 173. consisted in their constitution of Saints onely But the Churches of England after Popery were not so constituted For the greatest number of them were prophane people even mockers and contemners of Religion as Atheists Idolaters Sorcerers Blasphemers and all sorts of miscreants and wicked livers Therefore the Churches of England are not true visible Churches There is never a part of this argument they can deny unlesse they will let fall their owne principles For the Assumption I make no question but it will passe without exception and none of them will have the face to oppose it considering how generally the thing hath beene affirmed and still is upon all occasions both in word and writing Now that the proposition may appeare as true also I will prove the same first by Scriptures secondly by reason thirdly by the testimonies of the learned ANSVVER IF both parts of this Argument be Nonconformists principles why doe you labour to prove the proposition true more than the assumption If it had been a confessed principle why doe you not fight against them with their own weapons as you pretend to doe throughout your Booke He is very dull that doth not smell somewhat herein But if it so please you The proposition is the Nonconformists and it is not For if this be the meaning thereof That all true Churches should consist of visible Saints not onely in their first gathering planting and constitution but also in their after continuance and propagations the Nonconformists doe acknowledge it for when sinne and wickednesse springeth or groweth in the Church the ordinance of God is violated But if this be the meaning That the societie which consisteth not of Saints onely is not the true Church of Jesus Christ that the Nonconformists utterly deny Also it is one thing to say The m Hieron Prefar lib. 2. in Epist ad Galat. Rursus facilitatis superbiae arguunturs Id. ad princ Marcelle Epitaph Difficile est in maledicâ civitate non aliquaÌ„ sinistri rumoris fabulam contrabere Id. in Praefat. in lib. Dydimini Sp. Sa. Cum Babylone versarer purpuratae meritricis essem colonâ— c. Church is not planted and gathered in all things according to Gods Word another to say it is no Church at all which is not planted and gathered in all things agreeable to the Word of God If then the meaning of the proposition be this That all true Churches planted and gathered according to Gods Word consisted of Saints onely because the ordinance of God is violated and his house polluted 〈◊〉 notorious offenders are received or tolerated the Noâ—conformists will acknowledge it But if you understand it thus That it is no true Church at all which consisteth not of Saints onely because it is not gathered planted constituted reformed in all things agreeable to the Word of God they never received it If you could not discerne this in their writings you were very blinde and partiall If you did discerne it and yet would passe it over that you might with some colour traduce them as going contrary to their owne principles or beguile others with an aequivocation where was your sincerity The Nonconformists will not deny but some things in the gathering and planting or rather the refining and government of the Church of England was and is done amisse not agreeable to the Word of God which they heartily desire and labour might be reformed but for things done amisse they dare not condemne the Church deny the grace of God separate from her communion or approve them that doe it It may be questioned also whether you dare not put a tricke upon your Reader in the phrase gathered and planted as if a church in continuance might consist of such as are not Saintâ— but if it be not gathered of such onely at the first it is no Church If this be your close intendment the proposition is farre from truth the minde of the Nonconformists and the matter in hand for in the reformation a new
with the triumphant church And not by all sorts as in outward societie and profession are linked together who yet are not excluded from the societie in respect of profession nor denied to be members of the Church in their kinde or in a sort such as are called onely by externall vocation are members in their kinde of that company called or externally selected but not true members of the Church militant nor militant members of the Church catholique whereof Christ is the head And thus the church is a company of faithfull people sincere upright walking with God which is mixed with hypocrites and wicked livers not as living members of Jesus Christ but as members in a sort of the visible societie as members in the church by outward profession but not of the true militant church SECT V. BEfore I end this point Neces of Separat p. 179 180 181. Babel no Bethel pag. 108. Chall ca. 1. pag 33 34. I will here lay downe some few Syllogismes intirely made up between the Inconformists and Conformists all concluding the forenamed position That Church which hath not a lawfull Ministery is not a true visible Church But the Church of England hath not a true lawfull Ministery Ergo The Church of England is not a true visible Church The proposition is affirmed of the Conformists Sutcl Chal. pa. 40. and answ to the except pag. 65. as Burton Sutcliffe The Assumption is granted by the Nonconformists as we have in the first chapter largely shewed The true visible Church of Christ is a societie of beleeving and faithfull people and a communion of Saints so say the Conformists But the Church of England is not a societie of beleeving and faithfull people a communion of Saints thus write the Nonconformists see page 169. Ergo the Church of England is not the true visible Church The true Church is the Kings daughter described in Psalme 45. But the Church of England is not the Kings daughter so described Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ Burton answer to Hicholia pag. 100. The proposition is laid downe by the Conformists whereby they prove Rome a false Church The Assumption is the Nonconformists For if they say the truth their members have not those qualities belonging to the Kings daughter neither the Priest nor people See pag. 15.16 39.137 â—â— 69.170 The true Church of Christ is the flocke of Christ 〈◊〉 the Church of England is not the true flock of Christ therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ. The proposition say the Conformists is undeniable BurtoÌ„ in the same Booke pag. 99. Song 1.6 7 Act 20.28 Joh 10.16 Theâ—e Assumption is proved by the Nonconformists Principles compared with Joh. 10.3 4.27 Christs flocke heare his voice and live it and follow it But the Church of England submitting to aâ— unlawfull Minisstery worship and discipline heare not Christs voice nor know nor acknowledge nor follow it but the voyce of Antichrist The Church of God doth keepe the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration or corruption thus the Conformists Sutcl Chal. cap. 1. pag. 6. arg 9. But the Church of England keepes not the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration and corruption say the Nonconformists Sec pag 108 Ergo shee is not the Church of God No societie can be tearmed Gods Church which retaineth not Gods true worship this the Conformists But the Church of England doth not retaire Gods true worship say the Nonconformists See pag. 78 to the 213. Ergo The same Booke pag. 13. arg 19. shee cannot be tearmed Gods church The true Church consisteth not of fierce Lyons Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beasts But of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble gentle c. So say the Conformists But the English Church doth consist of Lyons Id. pag. 27. arg 〈◊〉 Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beast's and not of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble and gentle c. Thus the Nonconformists see pag. 31. c. 145.169 Therefore it is not the true Church Here the Reader seeth cleerely how the Conformists Majors and the Nonconformists Minors make up intire Syllogismes of Separation And how they will be able to loose these knots I know not except by revoking utterly their own grounds which if either of them doe yet I doubt not but we shall be well enough able to maintaine them against men ANSVVER YOu please your selfe with the same Song which here we have over againe and againe tuned with the same art But that which you talke of the Conformists Majors and the Inconformists Minors your slanders set aside is idle and toyish For in that matter there is no difference betwixt the Conformists and the Inconsormists The Conformists Majors as they are truely meant the Inconformists doe assent unto And the abuse of ignorance idlenesse prophanenesse both of Ministers people whereof the Nonconformists complaine the Conformists doe acknowledge and bewaile And your selfe a little after in a matter of the same nature affirme that herein you say no more than what in effect is fully acknowledged Can. Neces of Separat pag. 193. by the Nonconformists Conformists the Church of England the learned generally and all the reformed Churches upon earth and for proofe you quote the same Authors you here all edge And why then doe you trifle thus with the Conformists Major and Inconformists Minor Did the sound of those words please you so well But let the Majors and Minors be whose they will no intire or perfect Syllogismes of Separatisme can be made up of them but such as ignorance in not understanding or an evill conscience in perverting or falsifying their sayings doth conclude They may well stand to their grounds and unloose those knots and if they understand their owne principles they cannot but untie them But how you can free your selfe from the guilt of an evill conscience unlesse you recant what you have written repent of your Separation and acknowledg the wrong you have done to the Nonconformists by misreporting perverting and falsifying their principles as you call them I leave to your serious consideration and the reexamination of what you have done For the right understanding of the Conformists propositions Iâ— speake in your phrase against the Church of Rome we must note That the Romanists hold the Church of Rome to be the catholique Church of Christ here on earth under the Pope the Head in which sense their propositions are to be understood For the true catholique militant Church is a faithfull people a communion of Saints the flocke of Christ that heareth his voyce keepeth the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles without addition or alteration and worshippeth God truly according to his will And there is truly and properly no member of the militant Church catholique which doth not
this sincerely in truth and measure But they never thought nor taught that every member in a sort of the visible Churches were holy and sincere the true sheepe of Christ faithfull and effectually called much lesse that it was no Church of Christ wherein abuses were to be found or ungodly prophane men were tolerated The q Bils The difference between christium subject par 1. pag. 92. These se the Church militant triumphāt be not two but one Church Jerusalem which is above is the mother of us all Gal. 4. Yee be now saith Paul no more strangers and forreiners but Citizens with the Saints and of the houshold of God Eph. 2. For you be come to the Citie of the living God and Heb. 12. where you see the Saints in heaven be not removed from the Church of God but be received to their fellowship Id. part 2. p. 230. The Church in heaven is it another Church from this on earth or the same Certainly Christ hath but one body which it his Church and of that body seeing the Saints sc in heaven be the greater and worthier part they must be counted the same church with us Church militant and triumphant are not two Kingdomes but two degrees of one Kingdome The Church visible and invisible are not two Churches but distinct considerations of the same Church If then we speake of true sound living chiefe principle members of the militant Church such as partake in all the royalties and priviledges of members every member of the Church militant is a true branch in the Vine knit firmely unto Christ quickned by the Spirit and shall be an inheriter of eternall glory But if we speake of members in a sort of visible societies so hypocrites may be members and ungodly men as they are tolerated in the societie when the better part cannot reforme or amend them But to the Arguments in order First The Church may be true though the Ministery be deficient in the order of calling qualification of persons and execution of their office But that Church is false whose Ministery is altogether false for substance of their office that is the doctrine which they teach Sacraments which they administer and functions whereunto they are set apart Thus the Conformists and Inconformists both Now if we speake of the Ministery of the Church of England indefinitly both Conformists and Inconformists will confesse some things to be faulty both in the entrance and execution of their callings as that some are ignorant proud covetous carelesse corrupt not watching over the flocke But absolutely that their Ministery is false in respect of the substance of their office that was never said by either of them as you doe or might well know The knot to be unloosed now remaineth in your conscience in that either you aequivocate in your Major or against knowledge charge the Nonconformists in your Minor with that which they never said Secondly The true Church of Christ that is the true and lively members of the militant church and militant members of the catholique church is a company of r The true Church is an universall cōgregation or fellowship of Gods faithfull and elect people built upon the foundations of the Prophets and Apostles Christ Iesus himselfe being the head corner stone And it hath alwayes three notes or markes whereby it is knowne pure and sound doctrine the Sacraments ministred according to Christs holy institution and the right use of Ecclesiasticall discipline Hom. 2. booke hom for Whites 2. part The Church consisteth not of men but of faithfull men and they be the Church not in respect of flesh and bloud which came from earth but of truth and grace which came from Heaven Bilson Christ Subject part 2. pag. 231. faithfull people a communion of Saints the true flock of Christ which heare know acknowledge beleeve and obey the voyce of Christ the kings daughter which is all glorious within knit to Christ and married unto him But in this societie there are mixed not onely secret hypocrites but fierce Lyons Tigres Wolves Beares wicked Teachers and ungodly livers Thus the Conformists and Inconformists And in this sense the Church of England is a societie of faithfull and beleeving people the flocke of Christ the Kings daughter quickned by the Spirit enriched with grace decked with Gods ordinances walking in sincere constant conscionable obedience though in outward societie and profession mixed with many ignorant vaine prophane persons who have received the presse-money of Christ but indeed fight under the Devils banner as doe all hypocrites and ungodly wretches that is in the Church of England there be some truely of the Church which heare the voyce of Christ mixed with those which in words professe Christ but in their deeds deny him Thus the Conformists and Nonconformists The knot here lyeth onely in an aequivocation or grosse abuse of the word Church which sometimes notes the whole visible societie linked in an externall profession and sometimes the true and living members of Jesus Christ against which the gates of hell shall not prevaile Thirdly The s Deo dat Ital. Ioh. 10.1 The sheepe are the true faithfull endued with spirituall light and discretion sheepe of Christ doe heare his voyce but what sheepe not all that be sheepe in profession but all that be sheepe indeed and truth effectually called and gathered into Christ◠sheep-fold They heare that is acknowledge beleeve and obey Christs voyce sincerely but not perfectly fully and compleatly for the faithfull may erre of frailtie and infirmitie both in faith and manners sometimes they are mislead through ignorance drawne aside by passions foiled by temptations Christs sheepe doe obey his voyce but t Bils Christ. subject part 2. pa. 233. The Church is not simply a number of men for Infidels heretickes and hypocrites are not the Church but men regenerate by the Word Sacraments truely serving God according to the Gospell of his Sonne and sealed by the Spirit of grace against the day of Redemption all that are linked with them in outward societie doe not sincerely obey not yet in conversation fashion themselves to the direction and commandement of Jesus Christ And thus the Church of England that is the true and faithfull people in those societies doe heare and obey the voyce of Christ in truth others mixed with them doe heare and professe but not obey If the Church doe erre it is of ignorance nor of wilfulnesse or stubbornnesse In matters of lesse importance not fundamentall or bordering thereupon It is the errour of some onely add not of the whole Church which errours u Gratian. decret par 2. ca. 24. qu. 1. cap. 9. A rectae in Gloss Novitatibus Ipsa congregatio fidelium hic dicitur Ecclesia 〈◊〉 Ecclesia non potest nonesse cannot make that shee is not the flocke of Christ The knot here to be unloosed is your sinne in charging that upon the Nonconformists the contrary whereto they have ever
maintained Fourthly In the true Church of Christ the true doctrine of Jesus Christ the Prophets and Apostles in matters fundamentall is kept but so as the living members may erre both in doctrine and manners and others in societie with them may erre grossely impenitently finally And thus the Church of England doth keepe the doctrine of w Chaloner Credo Sanct. 2 part subject The church in respect of its outward part as it enters the Creed is not onely an outward profession of a doctrine or discipline but a profession of the same under the notion of truth And that the Church in this sense is invisible Gregory de Valent. confes in his third Tom. upō Thomas disp 1 qu. 1. pag. 7. sect 16. and Bellarm in his third Book de Eccles ca. 15. Bilson Christ subject par 3. pag. 305. The visible Church consisting of good and bad elect reprobate hath no such promise but shee may erre only the chosen of christ which are the true members of his body properly called his Church they shall not erre unto perdition c. Christ the Prophets and Apostles intirely without addition or alteration though in the government and administration there be many things amisse though in the societie there be many who be not qualified as sheepe humble and meeke but fierce and cruell Fifthly No societie is the Church of Christ which retaineth not the true worship of God but in the true Church of God his pure worship may be stained with rites and ceremonies which might well be spared and are justly disliked Thus both Conformists and Nonconformists and all other sorts and sects of men And thus in the Church of England the true worship of God is for substance rightly maintained though the Nonconformists dislike and the Conformists groane under some ceremonies not abandoned The onely knot here to be unloosed againe is your slander against the Nonconformists in that you charge them to say that the Church of England doth not retaine the true worship of God And now I shall desire you calmely to consider how according to your principles you can untie a knot or two if they should be knit for you in this wise First He is no true Pastor of Jesus Christ who grossely perverteth the Scripture falsifieth Authors deceiveth with aequivocations condemneth the true worship of God as pernicious idolatrie and the x Jewell upon the first to the Thes chap. 1. v. 1. The Church of God is in God the Father and in the Lord Iesus Christ it is the company of the faithfull whom God hath gathered together in Christ by his Word and by the holy Ghost to honour him as he himselfe hath appointed This Church heareth the voyce of the Shepheard It will not follow a stranger but flyeth from him Of this Church Hieron in Mic. lib. 1. cap. 1. saith Ecclesia Christi in toto orbe Ecclesias possidens c. societies of Saints as idolatrous and Antichristian Assemblies and laboureth to draw Christians from the communion of Saints which ought to be kept and maintained Examine your writings in the feare of God and adde the proposition wanting Secondly He is no true Minister who derives his authoritie from them that are not able to give it But he that derives his authoritie from the people derives it from them that have no authoritie to give it You know the conclusion and where it will light Thirdly The true Church of God is the true flock of Christ the Kings Daughter quickened by the Spirit married unto Christ gentle meeke humble retaining the true worship of God without addition or alteration and keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace But the societie of Separatists is not the true flocke of Christ quickned by the Spirit humble meeke gentle keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace These properties doe not agree to all and every one in that societie in truth according as in the former propositions you say they belong to the true Church of God If you shall be able to maintaine the former propositions against men as you vaunt I doe not beleeve you shall be able to unloose these few knots CHAP. V. SECT I. IT may be some will expect that I should write something of their Lecturers Can. Neces of Separat pag. 49 50. and the rather because they in the judgement of many are thought to be the best Ministers Of their life and doctrine I say nothing But as for their Ministery surely it is new and strange For the Originall of their name manner of entrance and Administration is unknowne wholly to the Scriptures and I thinke never before heard of till in these latter broken and confused times Therefore it is no marvell when the Question hath beene propounded to some of them as it was by the Pharisees to John Who art thou That they have not been able for their life to answer to answer the point Neither could agree among themselves what kinde of Ministery it is that they have taken up And being hard pressed for resolution they have ingenuously confessed that unlesse they be Evangelists they could not see how their Ministery doth accord with any Ministery mentioned in the New Testament This I write upon my owne certain knowledge the persons I thinke are yet living whose names for some reason I forbeare to expresse Howbeit I can and will doe it if I see there be a just and necessary occasion I doe not thinke it strange that they should thus speake for indeed I know not what they can say better in defence of their standing Pastours I am sure they will not say they are For First They doe not take any particular charge of a flocke upon them Secondly They performe not the office thereof for they agree with the people onely to preach and not to administer either the seales or censures to them Thirdly Their comming unto the people is in a strange sort for they make a covenant each with other for some certaine yeares and when that time is out both parties are free and so may leave one the other and doe many times but a true Pastour may not doe so For if he should he were worse than an hireling which leaves not the sheepe till he see the Wolfe comming But many of these when they see a richer Lectureship comming towards them Fourthly He that is a Parson or Vicar is taken generally for the Minister of the place And truely howsoever their calling be false and Anttchristian as the Nonconformists say yet in many respects they doe better resemble a true Minister than any Lecturer whatsoever Therefore not without just cause Neces of Discipl pag. 74. doe the Reformists utterly condemne this extraordinary office of Preachers And affirme that they are neither Pastours nor Teachers which the Scripture alloweth of ANSVVER THis point concerning Lecturers I have purposely deferred unto this place because it is distinct from the former in your apprehension
AN ANSWER TO TWO TREATISES Of Mr. IOHN CAN THE Leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam The former called A Necessitie of Separation from the Church of ENGLAND proved by the Nonconformists Principles The other A Stay against Straying Wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the Ministers of the Church of England Very seasonable for the present times By the late learned laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ JOHN BALL He that is first in his owne cause seemeth just but his neighbour commeth and searcheth him Prov. 18.17 Prove all things hold fast that which is good 1 Thes 5.21 LONDON Printed by R. B. and are to be sold by John Burroughes at his Shop at the signe of the Golden Dragon neere the Inner Temple gate in Fleetstreet 1642. TO The Christian READER Sound Knowledge and love of the Truth together with inward peace and Spirituall joy through Communion with Christ in the Ordinances of the Gospell Christian READER THis ensuing discourse was prepared for the Presse by the Reverend Author and committed to one of us that it might be made publike of which we will say nothing but shall freely venture it to stand or fall by the award of an impartiall judgement Neither shall wee present thee with the Authors deserved praises seeing his rare pietie and great learning were sufficiently knowne to very many of various rankes who were well acquainted with him and his workes already Printed have given a competent proofe hereof unto all others who have 〈◊〉 them without prejudice and partialitie Only by occasion of publishing this piece wee â—â—we leave to cleare him from such aspersions as by 〈◊〉 have causlesly beene cast upon him and by others too much and too easily believed against him a thing incident to men most eminent and innocent as instances in all Ages will evince not only to the blemishing of his just estimation but also as we conceive to the prejudice of the truth it selfe and in favour of many spreading errours and exorbitances Those aspersions which wee shall endeavour to take off are two which though they openly contradict each other yet they unhappily agree to defame our worthy friend whose credit wee judge our selves many wayes bound to vindicate and preserve The one intimating some degree of declining from his former inconformitie in deserting the Nonconformists cause and grounds being too much inclined to favour the times in our Ceremonies and Service book The other expressing his advancing beyond the wonted limets of a Nonconformist towards the cause and course of separation Two things are pretended to confirme the former 1. A passage in the Preface of his Book called A friendly tryall of the grounds tending to separation c. pag. 3. his words are these Many are the objections which are made against set formes of Prayer and particularly against our booke of Common Prayer All which I have endeavoured to answer severally not because they are of so great weight but because I desired fully to satisfie every doubt c. Secondly that in the whole frame of the same booke he speakes more covertly and coldly against the corruptions of our Church than became a man who continued stedfast in the wayes of Nonconformity For Answer whereunto we affirme in the Generall That upon our knowledge he lived and dyed a strict forbearer and firme opposer of all such corruptions as the Nonconformists heretofore so usually called had commonly by their publike writings disallowed Nor have wee knowne any man in that kinde more precise uniforme and constant to his opinion in discourse prayers and practices yet alwayes carried on with Christian moderation and meekenesse which graces are of singular use in controversies of this nature yea some of us can witnesse his purpose if God had lent him longer life by a set Treatise to have shewed himselfe a plaintiffe for the Nonconformists against the corruptions in our Church as in this hee appeares their defendant against the Calumnies of Master Can. These testimonies may satisfie the sober minded that he continued cordial to their cause whereunto more might be added but wee desire not to revive the remembrance of these differences among deare brethren Because wee pray and hope that through Gods mercy by meanes of our Gracious Sovereigne and of the present Parliament they will in such sort be buried that they shall arise no more to our disturbance and discomfort More particularly to the passage objected out of the forecited Preface we Answer That the words themselvs doe not necessarily imply any such sense but they may admit yea they will carry a better construction if the Reader will be candid and well advised For he saith not that he hath answered the objections as suggesting little or nothing blameworthy in our Liturgie but because they are not of so great weight as to inforce the unlawfulnesse of those set formes or warrant a separation from our Churches and publike worship in regard thereof All which both the title of the Booke and the tenour of the whole discourse therein together with this Treatise exhibited will sufficiently cleare unto the indifferent and attentive Reader And that this was his meaning some of us can testifie from his owne mouth which also he would have manifested to the world if God had lengthened his life either in an Epistle annexed to this worke now brought into the open light or some other way as might have been judged most convenient But you will say Object The other ground of this imputation is more pregnant for why did he not speake out against the corruptions of the times as others did Nay why did he seek to cleaâ— the book of Common Prayer of some things charged upon it Two things we conceive may fully take off the strength of this objection Answ 1. Because it was impertinent here to aggravate or multiply corruptions objected but rather to shew that as in some things the booke by them was overcharged so notwithstanding all that could be alledged against it yet separation from our worship could not be lawfull much lesse necessarie 2 The state of those times wherein this piece was penned would not brooke more plainnesse in that and such like points this we could if it were expedient aboundantly evidence by declaring with what difficultie it passed the Presse what exceptions were taken at some harmelesse expressions and what amendments were exacted in some phrases which seemed somewhat openly to hint the Authors heart-workings towards that Reformation which in these times is much desired and endeavoured The second imputation remaines to be removed viz. that though our Reverend Author had both reasoned and written against the opinions and practice of separation in the time of his health yet on his death bed he did retract and with griefe repent what in that kinde he had done This is commonly reported confidently believed and gladly embraced not only here at home but also in forreigne parts even in
CAN stay Epist to the Reader CAN Neces of separation Epist to the Reader wisheth tendernesse of conscience to his Reader ever and anon objecteth to his â—pposites what abominations and vile corruptions they labour to justifie which formerly they condemned beareth in hand that the Scriptures speak expresly for him and the learned of all sorts ancient and moderne who would not expect faire cariage and honest dealing whereas let the whole frame of his writings be looked into with a single heart and unpartiall eye and it will be found wery corrupt loose deceitfull for the matter and stuffed with scorne reproach slander insolency and falsifications for the manner Herein whether I speake the words of truth and sobernesse let the Reader search and then give sentence But for mine owne part I desire to answer in the feare of God and not to strive with him in the like measure of sinning A good cause needs no such tricks of wit but as it is of God so it is able to maintaine and defend it self and the more sincerely it is propounded the more it will prevaile In controversies if men will keepe a good conscience their zeale must be tempered with wisedome truth and meeknesse of spirit they must speake as in Gods presence give the right sense of Scripture and make fit application of it seeke the truth in love and that victorie alone which truth will carrie According to the measure of grace received from God I shall desire to walke within these bounds and with this resolution I come to compare cause with cause and reason with reason Let the Scriptures be the only judge betweene us upon which all a Aug. Epist 48. Audi quid dicit Dominus non quid dicit Donatus c. Et de Pastor ca. 4. Ego vocem Pastoris requirâ— lege de Psalmo c. Hieron in Mat. 23. Quod ex Scriptura non habet authoritatem c. Basil de vera fide Nos omnem a Dominica doctrina alienam vocem sententiam fugiamus Chr. in 2 Cor. hom 13. Obsecro oro omnes vos ut relinquatis quid huic vel illi videatur de his scripturis haec omnia inquirite Ambr. tom 3. lib. 5. epist 31. Caeli mysterium doceat me Deus ipse non homo qui seipsum ignoravit Petrus de Aliaco praec Gerson Nullum principis edictum aut ecclesiae decretum est justum nisi sit Divinae legi consonum Novum Testamentum est malleus qui universas haereses interimit est velut lucerna lumen exhibens recurrendum est ad folas Scripturas ut aeteâ—nam salutem adipiscamur conclusions in Divinitie if sound are grounded whereby all distinctions if true are warranted After the voice of God in Scripture the determinations and practices of our Guides who are no b Mat. 11.8 Luc. 7.14 1 Reg. 14.15 sc calamus arundincus non aromaticus sâ—â— mensorius CAN stay answ sect 1. p. 47. Howsoever we must live by our owne faith notwithstanding wee are not lightly to esteeme of the determinations and practices of our Guides specially when we know they are no reedes but men stable and unchangeable in the truth Bilson Christian subject part 2. pag. 351. Many Bishops have taught lyes and and seduced Princes in the Church of God and therfore not their dignitie but their doctrine is it that princes must regard for neither prince nor people stand bound to the persons of men but unto the truth of God and unto their teachers so long as they swerve not from the truth Id. Absolute judge of truth neither prince nor priest may challenge to be for God is truth and of God I trust no man may bee judge The sonne of God saith of himselfe I am truth c. Angust de nuptiis ad Valentin l. 2. cap. 33. Optat. lib. 5. ad Parmenian And page 351. Only God is to limit and appoint by his word what shalt stand for truth and what for errour c. And as Bishops ought to discerne which is the truth before they teach so must the people discerne who teacheth right before they believe Idem page 355. As the pastors have authoritie from Christ to preach the truth and woe be to them that resist the preachers of truth so have all hearers both libertie to discerne and a charge to beware of seducers given them by the same Lord and woe be to them that doe it not reeds but men stable in the truth shall be produced for they are not lightly to be esteemed though their consent cannot bee the ground of Divine faith and assurance The Lord in mercie give us to know the things which concerne our peace comfort and salvation and make us wise to walke in all pleasing before him CHAP. I. THe Question betwixt us is Whether by the Scriptures and principles of the Nonconformists The state of the Question Separation from the Church of England be necessary or lawfull Those that hold it lawfull to be present at the preaching of the Word but not to partake in the prayers of the Congregations nor to be present at the Sacraments there administred I leave to their owne defence The necessity or lawfullnesse of Separation is that which I deny Neither is it here questioned CAN. Necessit of Separ Epist to the Reader Whether the principles of the Nonconformists be true and justifiable but whether the necessity or lawfulnesse of separation can truly and justly be inferred and concluded from them This Position therefore I lay downe as directly contrary to the other That separation from the prayers Sacraments and preaching of the Word of God in the congregations and assemblies of the Church of England is unlawful by the Scriptures that whatsoever complaints whether just or unjust the Nonconformists judicious learned and holy have made of the corruptions in our Church government Ministerie Worship Prayers Administration of the Sacrament and people received or permitted as externall members they doe not inferre either in their judgements or in truth a necessitie or lawfulnesse of Separation from our Churches as no true Churches of Christ our Ministerie as false and Antichristian our Worship as Idolatry And therefore I shall shall hope such as have separated unadvisedly if men of tender hearts they will repent of their rashnesse seeing the grounds where upon they build are rotten the building ruinous and the practice directly tending to the scandall of Religion and discomfort of their soules And now I proceed in the feare of God by the beames of Truth to try and examine what is objected to shew the necessitie of Separation from the Nonconformists principles SEC I. TO Communicate in a false Ministerie CAN. Neces of Separat ca. 1. S. 3 pag. 26 27. The Church acts of Antichristian Ministers are Idolatious Id. Stay sect 1. pag. 5. s 4. p. 28. Id. Stay Answ s 5 pag. 66. Mat. 24.5.24 Hos 4 17. See Jun. on the the place See
Stay against straying s 13. p. 124. 125. Iere. 23.6 Prov. 5.3 Mat. 7.15 Ioh 104 5. Phil. 3 2. See Stay against Sect. 12. pag. 116 117 118 119. s â—â— p. 112 113 Ioh 4.23 Rom. 12.12 Numb 16. Isal 50.18 1 Tim. 5.22 〈◊〉 against Stray sect 6 pag. 81.82 sect 13. pag. 89. Matth. 28.19 20. Luk. 10.16 〈◊〉 Theâ—â— 2.2 3 4. Revel 13 14 9 12. 18.4 is certainly a breach of the Second Commandement For what doe they but indeed set up an Idoll yea and bow downe unto it who serve God in and by a devised and usurped Ministery In Song 1.7 8. The faithfull entreat Christ to be shewed where he by his Ministery with his Spirit Word Seales Censures c. feedeth his Flock that there they might place themselves for Instruction and Government and not turn aside to the flocks of his companions that is the congregations of false Christs and false Prophets which came in his Name saying I am Christ and deceive many Againe Ephraim is joyned to Idolls What were they among others they were Priests which Jeroboam ordained for the high Places What follows let him alone that is have no communion with him either in his false Ministery or other Idolatry Often doe the Prophets Christ and his Apostles forbid men to heare those which thrust themselves into ministeriall offices not being sent of God and from the Church To communicate in a false ministerie is to doe a vaine worship and therefore unacceptable altogether unto the Lord. In this men doe abet the party in his sin and so make it their owne by imputation and inwrap themselves in the same guilt with the offender God hath promised no blessing to his Word but in his own Ordinance though I confesse he may yea and doth grant oft times that through his infinite Godnesse which no man can challenge by an ordinary promise To doe otherwise is to rebell grievously against the Lord and to uphold what in us lyeth that which the Lord will consume therefore as no good Subject should assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civill justice to the Kings Subjects no although he administer the same never so legally justly impartially except the same person had a commission from the King so to doe so neither ought the Subjects of Christs Kingdome A dumb Mâ—â—sterâ—e being unlawfull and false is to be separated from their Ministers for the greatest part are dumb Ministers Câ—â— Necess of Separ pag. 42. to partake with any person whatsoever in the dispensation of any Spirituall ordinance though in it selfe never so holy without sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and Soveraigne King of his Church Christ Jesus Such as have spirituall communion in a false Ministery doe embrace the bosome of a stranger and so commit spirituall whoredome against the Lord. Christ setteth it downe as a propertie of his sheep to be observed that they follow not strangers but flie from them for that they know not their voice ANSWER THis Reason is grounded upon the complaint which Nonconformists make of some great abuses in the Ministery but in them it is not to be understood of all Ministers Where are the words or what be they that condemne all the Ministers for some that say all Ministers are unlawfully admitted for some or that there is none good because some are bad If there be no words that carry with them any such sense then you do wrong to your brethren The Lord blesse and encrease an hundred fold the godly wise learned grave Ministers of this Church T. C. repl 1. pag. 25. And so others in their complaints are to be understood Nolo autem 〈◊〉 quis existimet per ea quae ecclesiasticorum permissa sunt me omnes prorsus ecclesiasticos nullo excepto comprehâ—ndere velle Nic. Clem. Specul Eccles nor to inferre a nullitie of the Ministery It is nor to be understood of all Ministers for amongst them there be many learned wise godly and painfull as the truth is and they acknowledge duly called and approved whose Ministerie God hath sealed and blessed It doth not inferre a nullitie of the Ministerie of others for even the idle unlearned scandalous being in the roome of Ministers are Ministers to others though not to themselves and their Ministery so long as they Minister the things of God is effectuall to the people of God If then your meaning be that the whole Ministery of the Church of England is false impure unlawfull according to the principles and complaints of the Nonconformists it is notorious If that the Ministerie of the Church of England in generall is a nullitie by reason of some maims and defects found therein which they desire might be redressed in that also you doe them apparant wrong In the Proposition as it is set down that we may understand the sense thereof two things are to be considered 1. What is meant by a false Ministerie 2. What it is to communicate in a false Ministerie In plaine and distinct dealing a false Ministery is not to be confounded with a maymed defective or impure Ministery for as the Gospel may be preached truly when it is taught impurely so may the Ministery be true for substance when it is impure in some respects But seeing in your language every unlearned scandalous negligent Minister is a false Minister and the Ministerie which he executeth is a false Ministery therefore to omit further contestation about the word It must be noted That a false Ministery is twofold 1. Absolute viz. such as is no wayes appointed of God in respect of the substance of the office whereunto he is set apart as if a Minister be called to preach pernicious and damnable doctrine or to offer Sacrifice propitiatory for quick and dead and this Ministery is a meere nullitie 2 Comparative or in some respect as that which is maymed in the qualities or care of the party chosen or designed as if a man unlearned scandalous idle be chosen if he feed not the flock or teach without power and authoritie And this Ministery is defective but of force and efficacy to the people of God for substance it is of God for the good of his flock and what is done in the administration is done by the authoritie of God but the persons themselves if in no measure qualified are not allowed and approved of God The second phrase To communicate in the false Ministery may import two things First to communicate in the sinnes of the Ministery Iniqua lex est quae se exammari non patuur Tert. in Aâ—ol Non tam vi cogere homines ad obsequium quam ratione persuadere debenteae leges quae scribuntur a pio nomotheta Dan polit Christ lib. 5. cap. 3. Course of confor pag. 149. Gratian. Decr. 1. dist 12. cap. 1. Bilson Christ Subject par 2. p. 353. 354. Quomodo vero discedimus ab impiâ—s hominibus Morum dissimilitudine Si
to be planted there if hee allow maintenance for them and place such as be worthy they shall be ordained upon his Nomination And the Toletan Councel decreed That as long as the founders of Churches doe live they shall be suffered to have the chiefe and continuall care of the said Churches and shall offer fit Rectors to the Bishop to be ordained And if the Bishop neglecting the founders shall presume to place any others let him know that his admission shall be voide and to his shame but if such as they chuse be prohibited by the Canons as unworthy then let the Bishop take to promote some whom he thinketh more worthy In these particulars the coÌ„sent of the people is too much abridged as in some other particulars they tooke too much upon them or they gave their right away when yet the calling of the Minister or the office whereunto he was called in those cases was not a nullitie Jn many things saith the Councell of Paris which was the complaint of the Nicene Councell long before the old custom is neglected and the decrees of the Canons are broken But the Ministerie of the Word and Sacraments was not made voide thereby The godly learned consonant to the Scriptures have evermore distinguished betwixt an error in admission into an office and a flat nullitie of the office it selfe The Ministers election into his office Neque tamen ubique ea in parte felix fuit Ecclesia alicubi enim haeretici locum docendi adepti sunt alicubi etiam omissa accurata diligentia invocatione electione minus idonei rerum habenis sunt potiti ut Irenaeus ad Victorem scribens testatur Illiric catalog test lib. 2. tit Eccles Gubern Hatina in vita Damâ—f 2. Adeo enim inoleveraâ— hic mos ut jam cuique ambitioso liceret Petri sedem inv dere Id. in vita Benedict 4. Vbi cum ipsis opibus lascivire caepit Ecclesia Dei versis ejus cultoribus a severitate ad lisciviam c. T C. repl 1. pag. 23. Ibid. Leo. Epist. 40. Concil Niâ—â—â— 2. August oper brev collat cap 5. â—i 2 conâ—r epâ—set Parmen ca. 13. Georg. Pâ—nce Anâ—t sol 66. ought to be according to the Rules of the Word before he enter into the Ministerie he should be blamelesse apt to teach sound in Faith and much more is he to approve himself to be such a one in the execution considering that falls in the execution are much more dangerous to the Church than before But defects in the election doe not make the calling it selfe utterly unlawfull If one blame-worthy be elected or tolerated after he is not to be reputed as one that ministers altogether without a calling Therefore the Non-conformists never taught that the Minister is not to be heard or that wee must not hold communion with him in the Ordinances of Worship who is not elected and ordained by the societie where he is to administer though they maintain the consent of the people to be essentiall to the full compleat call of a Minister to that place and people Thus they doe professe in answere to this and such like accusations Where saith T.C. doe they reason thus The Word of God is not preached because the Mnisters are not rightly proved and elected c. Is it all one to say it is not purely preached it is not truly preached c. They nver said that there is no Ministerie in England nor yet doe ever conclude that there is no Word nor Sacraments nor Discipline nor Church Herein they affirme or teach nothing but what the godly learned in all ages have acknowledged Anatolius consecrated of Dioscorus was approved of Leo and Tharasius The Orthodox Fathers professed so the Donatists would returne to the Catholike true and Apostolicall Faith or Doctrine they would not disallow their Bishops that they might understand saith Augustine that Catholikes did not detest Christian consecration but humane errour We use this moderation saith George Prince Anhalt That they who are called forth to Parochiall offices if they promise that they for the time to come will preach the Word purely and administer the Sacraments according to Christs institution we receive them Horumque contenti vocatione See Grat. Decret 2 part ca. 2. Qu. 7. ca. 8.18 19 20. ca. 1. qu. 1. ca. 52. Socrat. hist. l. 1. ca. 9. Art Smal. par 3. art 10. Stay §. 11. p. 133. Par. in Heb. 5.4 Stay §. 4. p. 30. Par. in Rom. 10.14 15. Legitima autem vocatio ecclesiae est quae in quâvis ecclesiâ publica authoritate ordinis causâ ad aedificationem instituta Dan. in 1. Tim 5. pag. 363.364 pag. 343. Stay §. 4. pag. 30. §. 11. pag. 113. For. Iren. l. 2. cap. 11 prop. 13. tit de Haeretic Certe ad agnoscimus de omnibus clericis haereticis quoad jus liciti exercitii quoad alios uâ—ab corum communione abstincant cis non obediant sed non est accipiendum de onmibus haereticis quoad valorem exercitii in Sacramentorum administratione licet iniustae eorum censurae etiaÌ„ ipso iure nullae sint muneris demandati commissione ordinationem manus impositionem non iteremus So Art Smal. Si. Episcopi suo officio recte fungerentur cur am ecclesiae Evangelii gererent c. Pareus is praysed by your self as an interpreter one of a thousand and oft cited by you in this matter as one that condemneth the hearing of them that are unlawfully sent But according to Pareus He is lawfully sent who is called according to the order which is instituted by publique authoritie in every Church for order sake and to edification Danaeus sharply taxeth the manner of calling Ministers which be conceived to be in use in England and is againe and againe alledged by you in this question but he doth admonish withall that we must distinguish betweene a calling maimed and none at all Ex his autem omnibus saith hee apparet quam nulla sit vel non legitima eorum verbi Dei Ministrorum vel ecclesiae Pastorum vocatio qui solius regis vel reginae vel patroni vel episcopi vel Archiepiscopi authoritate diplomate bullis jussu judicio fit vel eligitur Id quod dolendum est adhuc fieri in iis ecclesiis quae tamen purum Dei verbum habent sequuntur veluti in media Anglia Nam Anglos homines alio qui sapientissimos acutissimos pientissimos in istis tamen papisticae idololatriae tyrannidis reliquiis agnoscendis tollendis scientes prudentesque caecutire mirum est Itaque praeclare sentiunt qui omnem illam chartulariam episcopaticam curionum pastorum Ecclesiae creandorum rationem item ex solo episcopi consensu diplomate ministrorum verbi caelestis vocationem approbationem inaugurationem damnant tollendamque ex reformata ad Dei verbum Ecclesiâ censent quòd ordo Dei verbo praescriptus
in ordinatione hujusmodi personarum sit praetermissus ac violatus sicut perspicue apparet Denique Senatui Ecclesiastico populo Christiano jus omne suum atque suffragium misere sit hac ratione in hoc genere vocationum ecclesiasticarum ademptum in unum quendam Episcopum magnâ tyrannide atque abusu translatum Dominus Deus talibus corruptionibus quae adhuc in Ecclesiis ipsius supersunt defenduntur mederi magna sua misericordia dignetur velit quae tandem certè magnam ecclesiae Dei ruinam secum trahent ipsum sacrosanctum verbi ministerium reddent efficientque vel mercenarium vel omnino contemptibile abjectum Quod Dominus avertat Vna modo Quaestio superest in hoc argumento Nimirum quid de corum administratione sit sentiendum qui non sunt legitime vocati atque utrum iis sana conscientia adhaerere debeamus In quâ certe distinguendum est Aut enim est omnine illegitima vocatio ejus qui ecclesiam aliquam administrat vel non est omnino illegitima sed tantum ex parte Illegitima omnino est ea in qua omnia Dei verbo praescripta sunt praetermissa vel violata ut si quis seipsum intruserit privatâ authoritate Non omnino sed tantum ex parte illegitima est ea in quâ tantum quaedam ex illis non observata fuerunt sed praetermissa T.C. to his Sister An. Stubs This is the stone that you often or rather alwayes stumble at That if there be any thing wanting in the Church which the Lord hath required that in stead you should thereof conclude that the Church is with us imperfect you conclude it is no Church at all Whereas in the constitution of a mans body some parts are required to the being of a man as the Head heart c. and some to comelinesse as hands c. So it is in the body of a Church some things are required to the being of a Church and other things to the beauty and perfection of it If it be not of the being of a Church alwayes to have a Ministerie much lesse is it of the being of the Church alwayes to have the free choice thereof Ergo cujus omnino illegitima vocatio est is certè pro privato habendus est ac hujusmodi vocatio pro nulla Itaque neque sacramenta conferrè potest neque reliqua negotia ecclesiae gerere quae gessit pro nullis habentur nisi fortasse esset extraordinaria ejus vocatio id est quae signis testimoniisque certis a Deo confirmata esset Solaenim propagati Evangelii fructus qui inde multus emergit consideratio non confirmat hujusmodi omnino illegitimam vocationem utique neque faetus enatus illegitimam copulam quae intercessit inter adulteros Vitium autem illud tolli potest si postea ordine legitime vocetur is qui primum illegitime in Ministerio versabatur Qui autem ex partetantum illegitime est electus vocatus veluti si per Simoniam quis munus adeptus est non legitimo populi vel Senatus ecclesiastici consensu consensu tamen gradum obtinet non est habenda pro omnino nulla hujusmodi vocatio sed vitium illud est corrigendum Itaque isti Sacramenta conferre possunt quia utcunque non omnino veram satis legitimam vocationeÌ„ habeant habent tamen aliquam Sic Scribae Pharisaei in cathedra Mosis sedebant Sic Caiaphas in Pontificatu summo crat quem pretio redemerat Itaque exemplo Apostolorum Christi ipsius qui eos monuit reprehendit non autem secessionem a corpore Ecclesiae fecit ab iis nos segregare in alium caetum non debemus nec a toto Ecclesiae corpore Jd enim esset Donatistarum haeresin revocare sed pacem Ecclesiae quantum in nobis est colere nos oportet etsi illud vitium quod in eorum personis electione inhaeret damnare oportet quantum possumus tum emendare tum etiam emendatum velle Hac ratione fit ut etiam a sacrificulis Papisticis collatus Baptismus non sit in Ecclesia Dei repetendus pro nullo habendus Etsi enim in Ecclesiae Dei illegitimam vocationem Papistici Sacrificuli habent tamen ex consensu populi habent aliquam Est autem aliud ut ait August August contr Parmenian l. c. 13. aliquid prorsus non habere aliud auteÌ„ aliquid perniciosè habere aliud auteÌ„ aliquid salubriter habere Quod tertium solum nobis eligendum est Sed tamen uti Magistratus vitio creatus Magistratus tamen est propter populi consensum Lib. 5. de lâ—ng Latin quemadmodum docet Varro ita isti Sacrifici etsi vitio creati sunt Episcopi Presbyteri ut 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 potius quam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sint meritò appellandi tamen quadantenus Presbyteri sunt Episcopi praesertim apud eum populum qui in eo consensit Thus farre Danaeus whose testimonie I have rehearsed at large that every man may see with what fidelitie you quote Authors 1 Admonit p. 1. CAN. Neces of sep c. 4. §. 2. p. 173. as making for you You cite out of the admonition that the Non-conformists complaine That they have not scarce the face of a Church But this accusation long since hath been answered that in saying the face of the Church doth not so much appeare for so the whole processe of their book doth declare that they meane when they say That we are scarce come to the outward face of the same T. C. repl 1. p. 175. Albeit I have shewed how uâ—true it is that the admonition affirmeth that there is no Church in England yet I cannot passe by the secret Philosophy whereby Mr. Doctor would prove that the Authors of the admonition affirme it T.C. repl 1. p. 23. T.C. repl 1 p. 51. 2. repl par 1. p. 369. Hos 4.6 CAN. Neces of Sep. p. 9. 31. T.C. repl 2. par 1. p. 273. they grant that wee have the true Church of God but that for want of those ordinances which it should have and through certaine the deformed rags of Poperie which it should not have the Church doth not appeare in her native colours and so beautifull as it is meet she should be prepared to so glorious an Husband as the Son of God Master Cartwright severely reprehendeth the abuses of the Ignorant Ministers which in respect of the place which they occupie are Idols because they stand for that and make shew of that which they are not and therupon he addeth admit you them as often as you will the Lord pronounceth that they shall be no Ministers to him which have no knowledge This you cite many times But in two things Master Cartwright explaineth himselfe first That through ignorance of that which they doe some
inficiari quin prius in Christum creded runt quam fecerunt a nobis divortium unde haec fides Annon ex praedicatione in nostra Ecclesia Numquid ergo praedicare quis potest nisi mittatur Rom. 10.13 c. Quid ergo verbum propter labem aliquam externae vocationis tam perverse respuunt cujus vim divinam in cordibus sentiunt Etiamsi fructus ipse non magis culpâ liberat depravationes nostras quam vera proles adulterium Nec igitur nobis in iis acquiescendum est nec iis a nobis propter aliquos naevos deficiendum Quamobrem redite ad unitatem Ecclesiae quae vos genuit aluit Si fugiatis hunc Christum qui cum electis in nostris caetibus caenat ac eos vicissim excipit profectò nusquam invenietis Interim cogitemus etiam nos quantum nobis ipsis malum accersimus qui mordicùs retinendo superstitiones nostras fratres in tantum periculum coniicimus Certe si quid momenti habet quod olim confirmavit ipsa veritas praestaret hujusmodi hominibus suspensa mola asinaria in collis demergi in profundo maris Matth. 18.6 Vtrisque sanitatem mentis precor Here wee see the Non-conformists agreeable to the Scripture sound reason the consent of all Antiquitie and their own Principles doe plainely distinguish betwixt a maime or defect in the calling of a Minister and no calling at all that it is great ignorance or to speak most favourably inconsideratenesse to charge them as if they went against their own Principles in holding Communion with the Churches of England in the ordinances of Gods worship And if haste had not blinded Robinson against Bern. reasons discuss p. 285. this you might have observed out of the Separatists themselves There is saith one speaking of Baptisme in this point a further consideration to be had unto which both the Scriptures and our owne experience doe lead us namely that as the Lord hath his people in Babylon his I meane both in respect of election and of personall sanctification so hath he for their sakes there preserved notwithstanding all the Apostasie and confusion which is found in it sundry his holy truths and ordinances amongst which Baptisme is one But if his ordinances be preserved or any one of them true for substance of necessity some truth of Ministerie whereby those ordinances be administred must bee preserved also It is an injurie to the people as the Non-conformists hold Whitak de pont Rom. contr 4. qu. 1. cap. 1. Si velimus Christum ipsum respicere fuit semper ecclesiae regimen monarchicum si ecclesiae Praebyteros qui in doctrina disciplina suas partes agebant Arâ—stocraticum si totum corpus ecclesiae quatenus in electione episcoporum presbyterorum suffragia serâ—bat ita tamen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 semper Praesbyteris servaretur Democraticum Dan. in 1 Tim. 5. pag. 352. that a Minister should be thrust upon them against their wills or whom they never saw nor heard of But if the people be few simple apt to be deceived unable to judge of the fitnesse of a Minister they stand in need of direction not onely from their owne Elders but from other Churches The practice of the Apostles will confirme this for sometimes men were propounded unto the Church to be chosen and sometimes the choice was wholly left unto them And was not this for our direction that more libertie may be given where the danger is lesse and more caution and restraint used where the danger is apparant that if they be left unto themselves either an ill or an unfit choice shall be made In reason it is evident for the childs consent is required in marriage and the more able he is to chuse for himselfe the more liberty may Parents grant him in his choice but if he be not able or lesse able the more watchfull must they be over him and so in this matter The Presbyters are to goe before the people in the examination Heb. 18.7 Tert. in â—pol c. 39. approbation and designement of a man fit for the Ministerie for they are guides to whom the chiefe care and direction of things Ecclesiasticall doth belong As for the people it is not their office and for the most part they are unable to judge of those things To the people therefore it pertaineth onely to give their consent to him that is chosen or to shew their reasons why they cannot approve of him who is propounded but no testimonie of Scripture no example no reason teacheth Kuclin Catech. Hollant de legit â—ocat Minist Th. 10. Plebâ—damus pâ—testatem propanendi si quas habetâ—e usaâ—ionâ—s caâ—sas that the whole businesse should be committed to the desires and requests of the whole and sole multitude The consent of the people is not required to the common election whereby a good godly learned fit Man was chosen to the Ministerie but to the singular election of a Minister whereby he is chosen to be set over this or that congregation Or if that expression be lyable to some exception Ion. animadâ— in Bell coâ—â— 5. l. 1. ca. 3. not 3. ca. 7 â—ot 7. Ibid. not 24.26 The consent of the people is not required in this Whether such a man be fit for the Ministerie and meet to be set apart for the worke of the Lord but whether he be fit or meet to be their Minister by whom they may be edified and builded up in Faith and holinesse Of the former they have no calling or right to judge but in the latter they have great interest Brotherly societie requireth that we mutually admonish exhort reprove and comfort each other as occasion is offered and when need requireth it is the duty of neighbour-Churches to lend helpe to their brethren in the choice and election of their Minister Iun Eccles l. 3. ca. 〈◊〉 For if Churches have not fit men amongst them for the Ministerie nor able men to make choice for themselves they are to be holpen in love without prejudice to their libertie and not to be discarded and cast off as unworthy the name of a Church When the Scripture willeth that one should admonish another it is not only a coÌ„mandement to every singular man towards his fellow Heb. 3.13 Rom. 15.14 Rom. 12.12 Carâ—w repl 2. par 1. p. 23 1. but also to one whol company towards another society St. Paul when he teacheth that all the faithful are meÌ„bers of one mysticall body of Christ who ought to have a mutual care one of another laid the foundation of this policie Bellar asketh Quo jure unus populus episcopum alterius populi eligere potest Junius answereth Bellar. de Clâ—r l. 1. c. 7. Iun. Ibid. cap 7. not 13. eccld 3. c. 1. Not 24. Certè charitatis jure communionis sanctorum nam populus infidelis ipse non potest eligere utpote nondum vocatus sed postea vocandus ad
the mouth of one witnesse though his testimony were received yet may no man be condemned See Beza annot Maier in Matth. 18.7 both their owne and Neighbouring Churches so did the Ancients The Ordination of Bishops by themselves alone or their Chaplaines and that of many at a clap so did the Ancients The thrusting of Ministers upon the people without their knowledge or consent so did the Ancients The ordination of Ministers without cure or charge so did the Ancients The ignorance idlenesse pride luxurie pompe covetousnesse contention and schisme of such as thrust themselves rashly ambitiously profanely into offices by favour monie flatterie or other corruption so did the Ancients They reprove these and such like abuses and humbly seek and sue for reformation but tolerate what they cannot amend and hold communion with the Churches of God in the Ordinances of Religion and so did the Ancients And if the Ancients did neither lay the grounds of Separation nor walke contrary to their owne Principles in holding communion it is great ignorance at least to charge the Nonconformists as if they walked not according to their owne rules when they doe not separate Nay if the Non-conformists should not disallow both your positions and practice of Separation they should not walke agreeable to their owne Principles or the truth of Scripture For you hold the power of the keyes originaliter and executivè is given to the community of the faithfull many or few yea though but two or three joyned together in a Church way This the Nonconformists approve not You hold it is necessary and essentiall to the calling of a Minister that he be approved chosen and ordained only by that congregation where he is to administer This the Nonconformists altogether dislike You hold all Ministers that be not chosen and ordained after your forme propounded to be unlawfull Idol Antichristian Ministers This the Nonconformists judge to be Antichristian The consequence of your Positions is this That since the Church of the New Testament was established upon the earth there was scarce a true lawfull Ministerie to be found where with the faithfull might lawfully hold communion in the worship of God This the Non-conformists doe detest and abhorre Of other your positions in the Sections following SEC III. CAN. Stay against Stray Sect. 1. pag. 4 5. WHatsoever God hath bestowed upon his Church as her priviledge the same is to be found in his Word But it is not mentioned there that Beleivers as their priviledge ought to heare Antichristian Teachers The proposition is unquestionably certaine by these Scriptures Psal 19.7 2 Tim. 3.15.16 Isai 8.20 Ioh. 15.17 Act. 20.27 Besides Contra Gentes this is the unanimous consent of learned writers The Scriptures saith Athanasius doe helpe us with the knowledge of every truth c. The first part which is only controversall is evident and cleere Anno. in 1 Cor. 10. §. 21. in 1 Reg. cap 5. v. 19. by these Scriptures Levit. 17.3.4 Deut. 12.5 Prov. 5.8 Hos 4.15 Matth. 7.15 2 Cor. 7.15 16 17. Rev. 18.4 Song 1.6 7. To this all sorts of Writers assent Zanch. on Phil. 3.2 The Authors of the Admonition pag. 27 c. Yea the Papists themselves Rhemists and Doway Translators ANSWER THe sinewes of this Argument are cut already in the first Section if ever it had any and therefore a few words may now suffice In this reason you take for granted that which is most false little lesse than blasphemie to wit that all Ministers in the Church of England be Antichristian For they are in respect of the substance of their office the Ministers of Jesus Christ set apart to preach the Gospel dispense the Sacraments and administer the Discipline of the Lord Christ and many of them the approved servants of Christ furnished with gifts from above sent forth by authoritie to preach the Gospel of God and dispense his Sacraments which they faithfully execute according to commission received from their Lord and Master the King of the Church who worketh by them and blesseth their labours if ever ordinary Ministers had cause to speake of and rejoyce in the blessing of God to the praise of his name But to let that passe Antichristian Teachers if I must speak in your owne language be of divers sorts 1. Such as be not called in every point according to your platforme or at least whose calling is in any respect maymed or defective though they be godly learned painfull every way fit set apart by authority and approved by the Church If Antichristian Teachers be taken in this sense true Beleevers living in societies with them are bound to heare the Word and partake in the Sacraments because they be the ordinances of the Lord Jesus who is present knocking at the doore of the heart and will come in and sup with them that open unto him So long as wee teach the same doctrine which the Apostles did we have the same povver and authority to Preach which they had Bâ—s Chrill 〈◊〉 part 3. p. â— Look what reasons soever can be alledged to prove that Christians ought to joyne together in holy communion the same will strongly convince that ordinarily or occasionally we must hold societie with such Ministers in the ordinances of piety and godlinesse And if this Ministerie be Antichristian divers if not most worthy Martyrs of Jesus Christ that have withstood Antichrist unto blood have stood under some ordinances in their first originall Antichristian or of men in some respects which did not overthrow though it might be some blemish unto their Ministerie 2. Such as be not rightly called by men because not rightly furnished with gifts or faithfully executing their place or teaching erroneous doctrines and traditions of men but yet set apart to an office which is of God and in communion of men professing the true Faith are called Antichristian Ministers And if it be taken in this sense the faithfull are bound in conscience to heare such if they live in their societies because they be the Ministers of Christ in a sort though they be not approved of him and doe his worke for the good of them that be heires of salvation But in so doing they doe not communicate with the Ministers of Antichrists apostasie but with the Lord Christ in his holy ordinance by such meanes as he hath appointed Hieron l. 1. Com in Eph. ad Galat. cap. 1. Hierome noteth that there are foure sorts who are employed in the businesses and affaires of Almighty God The first such as are sent neither of men nor by men but by Jesus Christ The second such as are sent of God but by man The third are such as are sent of man and not of God who are they that are ordained by favour of Men not rightly judging of the quality of them who are to serve in this calling Who yet are not simply denyed to be sent of God as if they had not commission from him but
to say out of the Nonconformists against our Ministery in respect of their orders and degrees SECTION 6. CAN. Necess of Separation Pag. 37. IF the calling and office of their bishops be as the Nonconformists say it is of the earth false divellish Antichristian c. than it followes that the calling and office of the whole Ministery must necessarily be of the same nature qualities and condition to wit of the earth false divellish and Antichristian c. which is wholly derived from it which receives J say and takes it life and being of it only and no where else For if their Bishops have not a right power in themselves then can they not transferre it to another As the law saith Nemo potest plus juris transferre in ahum Regul juris 79. quam sibi competere dignoscatur No man can give more to another than he hath himselfe If Corah Dathan and Abitam when they usurped the priesthood and government of the Church should by that false power which they assumed have ordained some of the people unto the Priests office no doubt all the Israelites which feared God would have judged their place and standing unlawfull because they which made them had no commission from God so to doe The case of their Ministery is just so ANSWER IF some things of men bee mixed with that which is of God as the holy Sacraments with humane rites and humane pompe and glory with the Ministery that is from above a prudent Christian must separate one from another and not cast away what is of God as a nullitie fruitlesse unprofitable defiled because somewhat humane is annexed to them Accidentall defects or superfluities in or about the Ministery doe not destroy the nature and substance of the Ministery In the office and calling of Bishops two things are to be considered 1 The substance of their office and Ministery whereunto they are separated to wit to preach the Gospell dispense the Sacraments and administer the discipline of Jesus Christ Hieron in epist ad Tit. ca. 1. ad Evag. epist 2. Bilson chr part 2. pag. 318 319. Calv. tract deneces reform eccles Calvin instit l. 4 c. 4. sect 1.2 4 15. Zanch. in 4. praeteptum toâ— 732 733. Forb Irenic l. 2 prop 7 8 9 10. and this is of God 2 The superioritie they take or challenge over their brethren which makes not a difference or nullitie in the substance of their ministery and this is of men All Ministers of the Gospell are stewards of Jesus Christ set apart to doe his worke wherein if any one shall challenge more than of right appertaineth unto him or doe ought out of pride partialitie sinister affection tyrannie or sedition or receiveth such authoritie to himselfe alone as belongeth not to his place and office or is common to many in that he is blameworthy but thereupon his Ministery or ministeriall acts done by him are not made voide and of none effect Thus the Church of England The institution of a Christian man c. of the Sacram. of Orders Ievvel apol def par 2. c. 3. div 1 5 c. 9. div 1. in 1 Tim. 3. in 1 Tim. hom 11 Qu. ex utroque Testamento ca. 100. at least the prime maintainers of Religion against the Papists have taught That there is little or no difference betwixt a Bishop and a Presbyter to which purpose Iewell cites many passages out of the Ancient Fathers as of Ambrose there is one Ordination of a Bishop and a Presbyter Chrys betwixt a Bishop and a Presbyter there is almost no difference Aug. what is a Bishop but the first or chiefe Presbyter And both Conformists and Non-conforâ—â—ists agree in this that ministers rightly qualified with gifts and preaching the doctrine of salvation purely bee the Ministers of Iesus Christ whether ordayned by Bishops or the Eldership Forb Iren. l. 2. c. 11 prop. Carleton de Eccl. c. 11. p 283.284 D. Field of the Church lib. 3. c. 39 T. C. repl 1. p. 82. There being great resemblance between the Popedome and Archbishop I meane having regard to the bare functions without respecting the Doctrine good or bad which they uphold there is yet great difference betweene the persons which execute them P. Lombard l. 4. sen dist 24. Capreol in 4. sent dist 2. qu. 1. Episcopatus non est alius distinctus ordo a sacerdotio Bonavent in 4 sent dist 24. art 2. qu. 3. Th. Aqui. 3. suppl qu. 40. art 5. They that hold Bishops by Divine right greater than Presbyters and that the power of Ordination belongeth unto them doe yet acknowledge Ordination given by the Eldership to be true by the judgement of the Catholike Church And they that maintaine the equalitie of Bishops and Presbyters by the Word of God deny not those Ministers to be of God who teach sound doctrine and feed the flocke of God committed to their charge though they received Ordination from Bishops The learned among the Papists themselves freely confesse that that wherein a Bishop excelleth a Presbyter is not a distinct and higher order or power of order but a kind of dignity or office and employment only Episcopacy is not another order distinct from the Priest-hood saith Capreolus No Prelate hath more concerning Sacramentall power or of order than simple Priests So Armachanus As concerning Sacerdotall order Armach l. 11. Dom. a Soto l. 10. de just jure q. 1. art 2. de 4. dist 24 q. 2 art 3 Darand in 4 sent dist 24 qu 5. Staple relect contr 2 qu. 3 art 3. Bellar. de Cler. l. 1. c 11 s 14. cusan concord l. 2. c. 13. and things that pertaine to order they are equall Thus Bellarmine himselfe Although a Bishop and Presbyter are distinguished yet as concerning Sacrifice they exercise the same ministery and therefore they make one order and not two Cusanus goeth further All Bishops and haply also Presbyters are of equall power in respect of jurisdiction although not of execution which executive exercise is shut up and restrayned by certaine positive Lawes And Iohannes de Parisijs de potost Regal Papal ca. 10. Some say a Presbyter hath the same power in his Parish that a Bishop hath in his Diocesse From which their confession it will evidently follow that Ministers ordained by Presbyters to whom the care and government of the Church belongeth are true Ministers In Alexandria and all Aegypt the Presbyters gave Ordination vvhen a Bishop vvas not present as Augustine Ambrose both confesse Ambr ad Eph. c 4 August Quest Nov vet 4 101 Concil Nicen can 4 Concil Arelatens 2. c. 5. Con Affris can 16 Bellar. de Eccl. l 4 c. 8 s Ex quo Gratian Decr dist 23 c. 8 Theodoret hist lib. 5 c. 23. Socrates hist. lib 4 c. 35 Gr. Johan Major in 4 sent dist 25 qu. 3 inter oper Gerson Paris 1606 p. 681 Greg 1 lib. 12 ep 31. indict 7. Bedal 1 c 27. Gratian. 1 par
disliked by godly and learned men so the generall given for direction in such cases be observed 3 We hold it unlawfull outwardly and but in appearance to joyne with Idolaters in their Idolatry Many words in this matter might well bee spared But wee desire to see your commandement why for every particular act that in a large sense is Idolatrous adjoyned to the true worship of God Calfeb against Mar. art 10. p. 185 186. we should forbeare our presence at the worship it selfe or be said to communicate in the sinne there committed For then no man might present himselfe with good conscience at any publike worship of GOD wherein any thing is done amisse for matter or manner which is in effect to say hee cannot bee present at any at all 4 To communicate in the ordinances of God with the Ministers of the Church of England is not to like approve or reverence the institutions of men in the exercises of religion nor to communicate with the Teacher in his sin nor in ought else that is amisse For the worship is of God both for matter and manner And put case the Minister bee disorderly chosen enter not as he ought be Symoniacall covetous froward corrupt idle scandalous doe the people partake in his sin in that they make use of his Ministery No Scripture teacheth any such thing no reason doth confirm it noe approved authors ever said it That which you alledge for proofe falleth utterly short It appertaineth to the vertue of truth Dav. determ 7. p. 40. that as a man sheweth himselfe by externall signes so he is indeed to be esteemed And such as frequent or repair unto unlawfull assemblies for the publike worship of God by their being there are to be reputed of the same religion or else dissemblers as it were to have no care of religion knowing God Dovvay annot in 4. King 5.19 p. 778. but not glorifying him as God But herein you have misrelated the Doway translators for their words are But in a Christian countrey where all beare the name of Christians especially where men are at controversie about the true Christian Religion all that frequent or repaire unto the same assemblies for publike service of God are to be reputed of the same religion or else dissemblers Bodily presence at false worship by which they shew a liking unto it is unlawfull To eate of meates sacrificed unto Idols in the Idoll Temple Your condemning the worship of God performed in our assemblies as pernicious idolatry vvherein is it a lesser sinne han the Popes prohibition of publike prayer and restraint of the Word and Sacraments throughout the Realm you can neither shevv us warrant for it an the Scriptures nor example of it in the Church of God You that so teach and censure stand guiltie of great impietie and they that hearken unto your persvvasions are partakers of your iniquity in some sort of the vvrong imaginations of Christians Aug. in Tract â—o 19. saith Quae omnia idola cordis sunt T. Caepl 1. art 3. pag. 4. is to communicate with Idolaters These things are evident and freely granted But the Assemblie met to call upon God in the mediation of Jesus Christ alone to heare the doctrine of salvation soundly and purely preached to receive the Sacrament rightly administred is not a false idolatrous assemblie they that repaire unto it be not Idolatrous â—â—false worshippers If you esteem of them as they shew themselves by out ward signes you must esteem them to be of the true religion and the true worshippers of God according to his will The ministerie in that assembly to be true sound and faithfull and of God of substance In this lieth the point of the controversie which you are contented to passe by in silence without any proofe at all But if any humane frailtie or infirmitie cleave to the ministerie or congregation in respect of doctrine manners lawes government or order which concernes not the life and soul but only the safety of the Church or wellfare of Religion In these a Christian doth not partake by his presence at the ordinances as the Scripture reason and the approved practice of the Saints in all ages of the Church do plentifully witnesse This is the judgement and practice of the Nonconformists and therefore they professe they praise God for this reformation so farre forth as it is agreeable to the Word of God they are glad the Word of God is preached that the Sacraments are administred that which is wanting they desire to be added that which is overmuch cut off But that a Christian must separate from the Word and Sacrament by reason of some superfluities or defects is no responsive conclusion that can be gathered soundly from their writings CAN Stay Sect. 5. pag. 66. In preaching of the truths of the Gospell by a false Minister an Idolatrous act is performed For Divine worship is not to be determined by a particular thing howbeit in it selfe good but as the essentiall parts belonging thereto whether they are persons or things are kept and observed The Church of Rome in Baptisme useth water and in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper gives bread and wine otherwhile too doth this cleare their administrations of Idolatry I think all men doe thinke that Vzziah committed an Idolatrous act 2 Chron. 26.16 when he invaded the Priests office But what made it so tooke he unlawfull incense no. Vsed he strange fire no. Offered hee prohibited Sacrifice or upon a wrong Altar No Where then lay the fault the Scripture telleth us Verse 18. it pertained not to him to burne incense unto the Lord but to the sons of Aaron To apply this if his act were Idolatrous because he wanted a calling howbeit observed many truths of the law By the same reason the Church acts of Artichristian Ministers are Idolatrous yea and as for the truths which they preach this cleares their acts no more from Idolatry than Vzziahs true Incense and the Altar quitted him from transgression ANSWER Your great words are of small force CAN. Stag. §. 3. p. 56. for should I speake my conscience it is your phrase They are words without weight of reason For still you presuppose the Ministerie of the Church of England to bee false and idolatrous which is to beg not to conclude the question But that being presupposed let us see how you goe forward In preaching the truth of the Gospell by a false Minister an Idolatrous act is performed you say But doth the Scripture say so Do you read it in the Law or in the Prophets in the Apostles or in the Evangelists The Scribes and Pharisees were false Ministers but it was not an Idolatrous worke in them to expound the Law of Moses or dispence other Church ordinances at that time commanded The popish Priests and Bishops are false Prophets but the simple administration of Baptisme by them is not an idolatrous act The Minister that is prophane and
his Church howsoever it may in some particular parts of the execution happily bee defective in some places The ordinarie ministerie of our Church is the ordinarie and perpetuall Ministerie given by Christ to his Church Id pag. 10. and such as the Princes of the earth are bound by Gods law to protect and maintaine And if there be any corruption in and about the same which they ought to abolish it is accidental or personall Page 8. and not essentiall to destroy the true nature of the ministerie of God And though it should be granted that our people stand under some kinde of observances and offices which in their own nature and first originall are in some kind Antichristian yet such a manner of standing cannot be said to overthrow though it somewhat staine the Ministery of Christ Thus is the substance of the answer throughout the booke CAN Neces of Separ p. 216 217. But how doe you confute or take away this distinction or weaken the force of this answer That you doe not once assay by Scripture or sound reason but you cry out of shifts and trifling and contradictions beggerly I sayâ—s or ifs base maintenance of the vilest abominations and justification of corruptions generally condemned by the same carnall and corrupt reasons which the Prelates use to doe That it serves to strengthen the hands of the wicked Id. pag. 220. grieve the hearts of the righteous and to discover his owne vile halting and double dealing The dumb dogs caterpillars and idle bellies never had a better proctor than this man to pleade for their unlawfull standing For he saith The Magistrate is bound to protect their Ministerie But how can wee believe him seeing the Nonconformists teach otherwise The rest of your answer is of the same marke which for shame I will not stand to confute You say any one may see by his worke Page 22â— that he meant not to tye his conscience short but would make a little bold with it or the present and so he might fetch over a sure blow upon us He cared not though with every stroke hee made wounds through the sides of his brethren But if you be able bring forth one sentence wherein the indifferent may see that hee hath made bold with his conscience or made the least wound in the side of any brother wherein he hath contradicted himselfe or the nonconformists justified any abomination pleaded for any corruption or spoken one word in defence of dumbe dogs caterpillars or idle bellies And if you cannot do this let the indifferent judge whether you have not offered violence to your conscience and made bold to wound your soule that you might defame the Ministerie of the Gospell and slander the gifts of God in his servants This practice is Antichristian borrowed from the vilest bondslaves of that man of sinne if not from Satan himselfe But I will not defend the Treatisers opinion nor trouble my selfe further to examine your answer to Master Br. That which I am to enquire into is How you prove all the Ministers of the Church of England in respect of their office and standing to be false Prophets or Antichristian If ought can be found to this purpose bare words excepted CAN Stay sect 12 pag. 119 120. If an unlawfull outward calling make an unlawfull Minister then it makes a false Prophet For according to the Scriptures it is all one thing only expressed in divers terms c. We know no meane betweene true Prophets and false for whosoever is not a true Prophet is a false Prophet Id. p. 121. and whosoever is a false Prophet cannot be a true Prophet of God He that is of God is a true Prophet he that is of the Devill is a false Prophet neither doth the deliverie and utterance of some truths make him a true Prophet for then the Devill should be a true Prophet who sometimes speakes the truth albeit to a sinister end Balaam was a very witch a wizard a false Prophet a true sorcerer famous or rather infamous for his Divellish magick which he practised among the wicked idolatrous nation So Attersol and many others so too as Junius Simpson Ferus Canutus and before them Origen Greg. Nazianzene Basil ANSWER As for Balaam whether he were a Witch Wizard or Magician it is not materiall to the point in hand If the Treatiser did put that instance amisse it will not follow that you have truly proved the Ministers of the Church of England to be false Prophets or soundly confuted what hee answered for himselfe And if the Treatisers friends be of your disposition you may soone heare from them that you have answered nothing for you have brought the sayings and opinions of men but reason out of the Scripture you have alledged none to prove him simply a Witch and a false Prophet And if the opinions and sayings of men will serve the turne there bee some that have thought Balaam to be a Prophet of God Tertul. cont Marc. lib. 4. Numb 22.19 2â— 7 Iosh 13.22 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Trem. Iun Divinum id est qui divinat and that for reasons not to be disregarded Tertullian amongst others thought Balaam to be a true Prophet and such a Prophet as should be numbred among the servants of God because he professeth that he would aske counsell of God and that he would speake nothing but what God should say unto him And he doth not only say so but indeed he propoundeth those things which he had received of God and which consent with truth and pietie In Scripture he is called a Diviner which word is sometimes used in a good sense to note one that doth prophesie true things or wisely and truly divine things to come Prov. 16.10 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In. Sagac Pisc Divinatio i.e. quasi divinaâ—io hoc est sogatitas qualis est divinantium Mercer in Prov. 16.10 Isaia 3.3 Iun. Sagacem Pisc Heb. Divinatorem sed hic accipitur in bonam parâ—em Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Conjectorem Hieron ariolum Dovvay Southsayer Moller 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est quâ—d hoc loco in bonampartem accipitur Car. in Prov. 16.10 quidem frequentissimè in Scriptura usu patur in malam partem pro his qui artibus Diaboâ—iâ—is abdita rimantur sed aliquando etiam ut Isa 13. Ezek. 13.6 usurpatur in bonam partem pro his qui aliquid aâ—cani proponunt quod legitimè vel revelatione divinâ vel solerti mvestigatione assequuti sunt Divination or a wise sentence is in the lips of Kings The Judge and the Prophet the Diviner and the old Man The Prophets divine for silver Mic. 3.11 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Num. 27.7 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Vulg. precium divinationis 2 Per. 2.15 Numb 23.27 See Rainold censur praelect 201 B. Hieron alibi nullam illustriorem de adventâ—â— Domini extare prophetiam dicit sci
quam Bileami Qui inter quaestiones Christianorum hanc fuisse docet cur Balaam tam manifesta de Christo praedixisset Quem ipse ad Iob 32. de cognitione Abrahan ifuâ—sse docet D. Heins exâ—rcit sacr in Mat. 2. which is spoken of the Prophets in Judah Neverthelesse seeing he is called a Diviner as they are said to take divinations in their hands scil the wages of iniquitie and as there is no divination against Israel that is magicall incantations cannot availe against Jsrael whom God doth protect with his presence I doe rather subscribe to them who conceive that he was a Witch or Wizard than the prophet of God Neither doth the deliverie and utterance of some truth make a true prophet for the Heathen Witches and Wizards nay the Divel himselfe hath spoken some truth that he might the better deceive But as the possession of all supernaturall truth necessarie to salvation is proper to the Church so to preach the whole counsell of God unto his people is the speciall badge of a true Prophet and the fruit whereby hee is knowne Marke this well for to use your owne phrase it sheweth all your answer to be coecum insomnium a vain dream and nothing else It is the note of a false Prophet to run when God doth not send him But can it be shewed that ever Minister did teach the whole counsell of God unto his flocke â—er 14.14 23.21 27.15 Vnreasonabl of separation p. 6. Though it be no new thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in divers things bring the truth with them yet this is a new thing and never heard of before That the Ministers of Antichrist should teach the whole truth of Iesus Christ for the substance therof That they should oppose directly and zealously against the maine and fundamentall doctrines of Antichrist c. 〈◊〉 42.19 who was not sent of God The places cited make it evident that they whom God did not send they taught false things in his name as they run when he sent them not so they prophesied when he spake not unto them In some cases it is true the Church for a time may bee without Ministers as when the pastor is taken away by death or the Church dispersed by persecution or the people negligent to procure teachers and the like But ordinarily the Church is not destitute of true Ministers nor is there a true ministerie to be found but in the Church And therefore seeing the societie professing the true faith intirely and holding the communion of Saints is the true Church the Ministers teaching sound doctrine in those societies and maintaining the unitie of the Spirit must of necessitie be true Ministers But every unlawfull Minister say you is a false Prophet for these two are all one This is spoken ambiguously and must be distinguished before any direct judgement can bee passed upon it What then doe you understand by unlawfull Minister Is he an unlawfull Minister who is not approved of God designed by Christ qualified as he ought chosen orderly but out of favour partialitie faction or schisme Or is he an unlawfull Minister who teacheth corruptly seeketh not that which was lost bindeth not up that which was broken puts not the weake into his bosome grieveth the godly strengtheneth the hands of the wicked and walketh prophanely Is he an unlawfull Minister who being a secret heretike CAN Necess of Separation page 237. If one bee ordained a Pastor according to Christs institution hee hath certainly lawfull ministerie howsoever things shall afterward fall out yeâ— though hee should sing Masse and Mattens as hee speaketh But hee asketh if any that is in his wits will say so yes and prove it also and if hee himselfe had not wanted some wit in this point he would not thus have confounded one thing so absurâ—ly with another for as a person may bee a servant or subject truly and fully and yet doe afterwards the actions of thieves rebels traitors so a man may take a true Ministerie by ordination and yet in his life and doctrine doe wickedly and â—â—serve justly to be deposed is chosen and ordained by the communitie where hee is to administer without due tryall and examination or being rashly and unadvisedly elected doth after neglect his dutie altogether teach perverse things administer coruptly sing Masse and Mattens If none of these be unlawfull Ministers in your esteeme it will be no losse to us if we grant the proposition for we may boldly affirme if you search our Ministerie with a candle and lanthorn it will bee found true and of God If you take a false prophet and unlawfull Minister in that strict sense as to exclude all the former there is not one Minister a member of our Church that can be a false Prophet If you take all these for unlawfull ministers then all unlawfull Ministers are not false prophets in your account Or else it is lawfull to hold communion with some false prophets which you peremptorily would seeme to deny The want of an outward calling you say makes a man an unlawfull minister and so you might say Ier. 2.8 Ter. de praescript advers Haeret. c. 36. Vnde autem extranâ—i inimici Apostoâ—iâ— haeretici nisiâ—ex diversitate doctrinae quam unusquisque de suo arbitrio adversus Apostolos aut protulit aut recepit doth the want of right qualification and conscionable discharge of his duty for God hath threatned both the one and the other that they shall be no priests unto him both the one and the other are idols in phrase of Scripture But he can not be a minister in a societie of Christians professing the true and intire faith and enjoying the blessing of the Sacraments who is utterly destitute of an outward calling In some Churches the calling is more compleat and exact than in others and at some times things have beene more orderly handled than at others but in all Churches there is an outward calling and effectuall to the truth of the ministerie Long since it was objected against the Nonconformists that they say the Gospell is not truly preached in England because there is no lawfull calling to the ministerie whereunto they have returned this answer We do not say that there is no lawfull or no ordinarie calling in England for we doe not deny but that he may be lawfully called which is not ordinarily as Luther Melancthon Zuinglius and there bee places in England where the Ministers are called by their parishes in such sort as the examples of Scripture doe shew to have been done before the Eldership and government of the Church was established T.C. repl 1. answ to the exhor p. 3. I know not any that saith the Gospell is not truly preached in England and by those that are not of the same judgement that the admonition to the Parliament is of CAN. Necess of Separ pag. 55. The Ministery of England as it is established by law doth
certainly depend upon the Bishops calling wholly and no manâ— else and if any in the Land stand otherwise hee cannot properly be said to be a Minister of that Church but rather is a schismatike from it Id. p. 57. according to the formall constitution of it c. The most free Parish hath but only a liberty to admit of a Minister before made by the Bishops so that the people give him not any part much lesse the substance of his calling Id. p. 61. but a bare permission only to exercise by vertue of that calling But none may heare or have spirituall communion with such a Ministerie Id. p. 213. whose calling doth essentially depend upon the Bishops calling If the ministerie of the Prelates belong not to any ordinarie assemblies then is the same Antichristian and so consequently is that which is derived from it And so much from their own principles wee have formerly proved Id. p. 213. The Ministerie begotten by the Prelatesis illegitimate and false I say those which take their offices and callings from them are bastardly Ministers The Ordination of Priests and Deacons by the Prelates is unlawfull and Antichristian and the Ministery is false so long as they doe retain that false calling which they tooke first of the Bishops Id. p. 45. they of the Pope and he from the Divell Whosoever he be that dealeth with the holy things of God and worketh upon the consciences of men See CAN Stay §. 6. p. 78.79 by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling him the people of God ought not to receive or joyne themselves unto But all the Parsons Vicars Parish Priests stipendaries c. that stand over the Church Assemblies in England deale with the holy things of God and worke upon mens consciences by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling ANSWER Vpon this one prop lyeth all the weight of your building wheâ—em you strangely triumph as if you had stopped the mouth of the Non-conformists for ever that either they must goe backe from what they have writen against the abuses of the ministery or confesse they have said and unsaid as occasions have changed now maintaining that as right which even now they condemned as false and Antichristian And this you presse over and over with great confidence and insolencie But this stay I have plucked out of your hands already and shewed that this exception hath no weight or soundnesse either from truth or Non-conformists principles In answer to this renewed blast of words I will briefly repeate what hath been proved more at large Bilson Christian subject part 2. page 296. Bishops have their Authority to preach and administer the Sacraments not from the Prince but from Christ Himselfe Goe teach all Nations c. onely the Prince giveth him publiked libertie without let oâ— disturbance to doe that which Christ commandeth Id. p. 309. The charge which the Preachers and Bishops of England have over their flocks proceedeth neither from Prince nor Pope ner dependeth on the will or word of any earthly creature Chaloner Credo second par◠§. 2. He which conferres Baptisme and Orders as the principall Donor is Christ the Bishop or Pastor confers them only as his instrument August contr Crescon l. 4. c 6. per ministros dâ—spares Dei miâ—us aequâ—â— est quitâ—n â—â—illorum sed ejus est CAN. Stay §. 3. p. 60. August in Psalme 10. Christ sent him that betrayed him Bilson Christ subject part 2. p. 860. The ghostly worke is Gods the bodily service is the Priests wherein Iudas the thiefe Simon the Sorcerer c. may challenge as James c. First the Ministers of the Gospell derive not their authority or office from the Bishop Patron Presbyterie or people but immediately from Iesus Christ whose servants they are whose words they preach whose Sacraments they administer whose flocke they feed by whom they are protected and to whom they must give account If he be an Antichristian Minister who derives his authoritie from the Classis or Bishop he is Antichristian likewise who derives it from the communitie of the faithfull for neither the one nor the other can justly challenge that authoritie to themselves The Bishop Colledge Ecclesiasticall or Church cannot make a Minister formally or vertually but only as Stewards they put him in office whom Christ the King of Saints and head of the Church hath designed Wherein if Pastors or people shall walke disorderly challenging more than of right belongeth unto them or giving up their right through sloth negligence ignorance or security or not attending unto the direction of the great Shepheard of the flocke shall chuse a man unfit or not well qualified or shall proceed rashly tumultuously upon misguided affection in that weightie businesse though they incurre just blame and reprehension yet that makes not a nullitie of the Ministery or of the Ordinances dispensed upon that Election and Ordination Your selfe telleth us and that from the example of the Scribes and Pharisees That men being lawfully called to the Ministery are to be heard howsoever in some qualifications defective And if disorderly proceeding in election or want of just and fit qualification in the person elected do not make the election voyd how shall the meere want of consent in the people cause a nullity in the ministration If the carelesse or wilfull neglect of administration and execution of his office cause not a nullitie of the choyce Vnreasonablenesse of Separ p. 56. They may acknowledge a further calling than that of the Prelates yet not therein renounce the calling received from them for the Prelates being learned Divines and having approved their gifts and by words and Letter te stimoniall giving liberty to execute the Ministery of the Gospell they doe not therby thrust them into a Ministery but leave them c An Examin of D. â— Cen. p. 33. why shall the lacke of the peoples suffrage which they voluntarily have given away or otherwise lost make the ordinances dispensed by him that is chosen to be of none effect 2. The consent of the people is not required to make a man simply a Minister neither doth Episcopall Ordination make a man the Minister of this or that people Therefore it doth not hinder but a man may bee made Minister by the Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church and a Minister of this or that people by the free choice approbation and consent of the faithfull So in the fourth age of the Church somtimes the people would chuse a Minister whom they thought meete and afterward bring him to the Bishop to be admitted by him as appeareth in the worke of Chrysostome de Sacer of the chusing of Basil when Iohn Chrysostome himselfe gave him the slip Sometimes the Bishop would espie a meete man himselfe and require the consent of the people to chuse â—s it appeareth by Augustine in the election of Eradius to be his successor 3. The
Papists themselves who stand so much upon the necessitie of succession and ordination by three Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church Bellar. de Eccl. l. 3. c. 10. S. Ad Secundum are yet forced to acknowledge That to know that Pastors are true there is required neither faith not lawfull Election but this onely that they be acknowledged such of the Church and that they hold the place of Christ de facto though not de jure And seeing you pretend to build upon the Non-conformists principles you may take notice of their profession which is this Baptisme administred by Popish Priests is good and sufficient and they are to bee accounted for Ministers though they bee not good and lawfull Ministers but usurpers and intruders The like may be said of such as without ordinary calling An Examin of D. W. Cen. art 11 page 14. counterfeite themselves to be Ministers and so deceive the Church In these the secret consent of the Church receiving them for Ministers untill their wicked usurpation bee espied may be sufficient to authorize their ministery toward others CAN. Necess of Separ Page 234. If I were not unwilling to give occasion unto the Bishops to insult over these men I could hence manifest much bad dealing in them but I will forbeare for the present and do referre the Reader to their owne principles which is Jd. page 239. CAN. Necess of Separ p. 221. Are the Princes of the earth bound by Gods Lawes to maintaine the ordinary ministery of your Assemblies then have you from time to time shamfully mocked and abused them in craving so earnestly for their ayde to have and place thereof CAN. Stay Sect. 1. page 50. that all Ecclesiasticall officers ought necessarily to bee made by the free choyce of the Congregation wherein they are to administer And if they can prove all this I doe not see but the Controversie may easily be taken up betweene them and the Bishops only then they have just cause to begge pardon of them for their pleas against their Prelacy and the maine heavy accusations which they have put up both to Princes and Parliaments against them ANSWER Here you play the Rhetorician and make shew what you could doe but that you will for the present take some compassion upon the Non-conformists Whereunto I will returne no other answer than what you have made to my hand As for your minsing figure of extenuation I could hence manifest I like it not For you do here none otherwise than if a Thiefe when hee hath stript a man out of all that hee hath would faine yet bee counted mercifull in that he doth not murder him or binde him as some others have done Let any indifferent man read your writings and he will say you have not spared your opposites but shot at them Arrowes of bitter words and made them as odious and vile as man can do But blessed is hee that is not offended at the truth for such things Looke upon your selfe in that which you say against your opposites You referre your selfe to their Principles and they make nothing for you as it hath beene alreadly shewed and you might see your selfe if you did not shut your eyes The reason which here you bring is but your owne saying said over many times and indeed bewrayeth more cunning CAN. Stay §. 2. page 55. than reason truth or Consciene and to speake in your phrase sophistry than sincerity For in plaine termes this is your forme of arguing If the Episcopall ordination be not a meere nullitie Vnreasonabl of Separ page 54. I know none having received Ordination from the Prelates that need deny that they preach partly by vertue of the Ministery which they have taken from them T. C. repl 1. Ep. By exercising unlawfull authority and by taking unto them partly such things as belong by no meanes unto the Church and partly which are common unto them with the whole Church or else with others the Ministers and Governours of the same if the ministerie of the idle carelesse prophane yea of the learned godly and painefull be not a meere Idol then have the Non-conformists just cause to begge pardon of the Prelates which hangeth together as a rope of sand The ministery of the Priests Scribes and Pharisees was true in time of the Old Testament and in the dayes of our Saviour Christ had the Prophets then and our Saviour just cause to beg pardon because they accused them of ignorance pride tyrannie contempt of the truth oppressions hypocrisie as blind guides and ravening Wolves who spoyled and made havocke of the flockes The Non-conformists never deemed the ministery of the Church of England for the substance and essentiall parts therof to be false and Idolatrous nor craved the aide of the Prince and Parliament to have it quite or in part abolished you have just cause to begge pardon that slander them in this manner But they complaine of abuses in the ministery and these they desire might be reformed That the ministery might be more pure and incorrupt They complaine of the usurpation of some who challenge that as peculiar to themselves which belongeth to their brethren in common who admit the basest of the people into the office of the ministerie doe that by their sole pleasure which should be done by common Counsell King Canutus made a Lavv by the Counsell of his sages at Winchester That Bishops be Preachers and Teachers of Gods Law and carefull followers of good works Leg. 26. And that every Christian learne so much that he can the true faith and the true understanding therof namely the Lords Prayer and the Creed or else not to have Christian buriall neither to bee admitted whiles he liveth to the Lords Table c. Amb. de dignit sacerdot ca. 3. Quantò prae caeteris gradus Episcopalis altior est tanto si per negligentiâ—m dilabadur ruina gravior est Magna sublimitas magnam debet habere cautelam CAN. Stay S. 12. p. 120 Honor grandis grandiori debet soliciâ—udine circumvallors and disregard the consent and approbation of the Church both in Ordinations and excommunications and if the ministery of the Church of England be true for substance might they not without blame desire and crave the reformation of this abuse they complaine of the pompous Non-residents who feede themselves and regard not the flocke strive after preferment and heape up livings but labour not in the word and doctrine nor look after the welfare of mens soules they accuse these as the poyson and bane of the Church or unfaithfull shepheards who leave the flock to be dispersed and scattered and yet they will not say their ministery is false or Idolatrous or a meere nullitie doe they then shamefullly mocke or abuse the Prince or Parliament in petitioning that this grosse corruption might be reformed They accuse the ignorant carelesse prophane Ministers of neglect of their office and unworthy any place
long agoe Another in the booke which you pretend to answer and in these very pages He most shamefully and lewdly as a man void of all common honestie and grace maketh the Ministers of Lincoln to affirme that the Prelates are reviled to be great Antichrists and their Ministerie and constitution to be great troublers of the Church at this day and that it cannot but be very sinfull and hurtfull to retaine or communicate with them CAN Stay §. 3. p. 59.69 Raiâ—old de ideloâ—l 2. c. 1. §. 2. Bilson Christ subj part 3. pag. 269. The Divell himselfe can shew no greater malice than to pervert that which is well spoken and to force a lewd senes of his owne or another mans words The Divell himselfe would have beene ashamed in this open manner to have told such a lie and therefore he is to be trusted no further than he is seen This you passe over in silence and if the substance of the accusation bee applyed unto your selfe I know not what apologie you can make Christ saith Rainolds as you quote him the Pastor of his Church doth tell us that he feeds not in Antichristian assemblies in the denne of theeves neither is it his will that his flock should there rest at noone But in the pleasant pasture by the still waters that is in the shadowes of the true Christian Churches detesting Idolatry But D. Rainolds words are not in caetibus papisticis speluncis idolâ—latrarum c. but in untbraculis orthodoxorumcatuum Whether this change of Antichristian Assemblies for popish Assemblies and true Christian Churches for Orthodox Assemblies CAN Stay § 3. p 22. D. 〈◊〉 by words and Letters testimoniall 2â—4 wâ— made in simplicitie be judge your selfe You might easily conjecture your credulous reader might conceit our assemblies to be Antichristian and not true Churches but popish Assemblies and not Orthodox he could not imagine them to be You alledge D. Amos saying It cannot be a true Church that wants order For by this the parts and members thereof are knit together But this is not to bee found in the place mentioned But D. Aines moving the question whether it be lawfull to stick to that Church from whom power of removing scandals and purging out the ungodly is taken away He answereth That power â—jure quoad actum primum cannot be separated from the true Church because immediately and necessarily it floweth from the essence it selfe for it is contained in that covenant whereby the faithfull are gathered into a Church The use of this power cannot be taken away without the great sin of them that take it away and the hainous injurie of them from whom it is taken Neither ought the Church to rest in this that she seeth her selfe unjustly oppressed of others For it belongeth to the office of the Church to defend that libertie where with she is endowed of Christ But yet if the faithfull contending for their libertie cannot obtaine their right in that part nor without grievous inconveniences come to a more free Church and can keepe themselves from the approbation of evill and doe also studie as much as in them lieth to supply that want they sinne not if they joyne themselves to such a Church or continue in it Thus D. Ames cleane contrary to that which you make him affirme Master Baines as you alledge him writes CAN Stay sect 2. p. 55. Bain diocesan That no people can worship God in repairing to any Church or ministery without warrant of the Word Let the Reader note it say you And if it be wisely noted it makes nothing against partaking in our assemblies in the ordinances of Grace because that is warranted approved commanded of God in his holy Word But Master Baines words are No people can worship God in repairing to this place and ministerie without warrant of his Word And he speakes of a Diocesan worship and ministerie peculiarly appropriated to that place as it was at Hierusalem which is nothing to your purpose You pretend that you have taken your principles out of the Nonconformists ever the chiefest of them which for learning CAN Neces of separ To the Read zeale judgement holinesse of life c. have ever held that cause But some things brought in their names is neither the opinion of all nor of the most nor of the best learned nor of many but either the private opinion of some one or the conceit of such indeed as were separated from the communion of the Church of England and not from the abuses only which were in the Church You cite Master Penry saying CAN stay sect 3. p. 57. M. Penry of the Ministerie of the Church of Engl. p. 37.38 CAN Neces of separ p. 16 28.43 Exhortation to the government of Wales 42 46 26 CAN Neces of separation Epist to the Reader CAN Neces of separ p. 252. It is most certaine Satan rules in the consciences of men not only by false doctrine but also by his false power and ordinances his kingdome of darknesse not only consisteth in the lies false doctrin and worship which he hath coined but also in the false and Antichristian ordinances which he hath invented for the ruling of his idolatrous denne And therefore the children and Saints of God ought to avoid both the one and the other But whatsoever his meaning bee in that or other passages cited Master Penry was not a Nonconformist but a Separatist by your owne confession and therefore his sayings are not to bee received for the Nonconformists principles Master Br. saith It is lawfull to communicate in that worship where the ceremonies are used but wee cannot believe him say you for his brethren both affirme and prove the contrary And here now is a fit place to write down the words wherof mention was made in p. 99. partly because the author is a principle Nonconformist and partly to discover the rashnesse and folly of this inconsiderate man which durst without any reason more than boldnesse still justifie the very thing which his brethren by many sound arguments have manifested to be evill and unlawfull and then you goe on to rehearse the words of the author of a dispute upon communicating at confused communions pag. 68.69 Who that Author is I know not the booke I have not seen but by the words which you relate it appeares hee was no English Nonconformist neither doth he speake of communicating in our English societies And if he did he speakes but his private opinion and not what is the judgement of Nonconformists It may be questioned whether Master Br. booke was not penned and published before hee could either see or thinke of the other But whatsoever is to be thought in that particular M. Br. knew it to bee the common practice and uniforme judgment of all Nonconformists in England both heretofore and at that present when he wrote that it is lawfull A dispute against Engl. part 1. ca. 9. sect 3.
false worship is neither absurd nor childish howsoever you are pleased to spurne and kick at it Peruse your owne manner of arguing implyed here CAN Neces of separat p. 190 191. and then speak of your answer to the other be not rash and partiall As for the particular point in hand the authors alledged by you speake nothing to your purpose For men may run when they bee not sent two wayes First when they are outwardly called but not inwardly qualified as with knowledge truth holinesse or care to doe the duties of their place and these are lawfull and unlawfull Ministers both lawfull as Ministers of Gods providence for the punishment of some and the good of others unlawfull as not approved of God in their place and standing Secondly when they have no manner of calling neither set apart by men in authoritie nor received by the Church nor qualified as they ought and these are every way unlawfull Againe false Prophets are of two sorts I Such as spring up in the Church teaching corrupt or perverse things but either not discovered or not convicted or not cast out These the faithfull must not believe though they may not forsake or cast off the Societies where such are tolerated 2. Such as teach damnable doctrines are not set apart to offices false and idolatrous and either never were in the societie of the true Church or bee lawfully convicted and justly cast out and with these the faithfull must hold no communion This is that which the learned teach as it hath beene shewed but it makes nothing at all to your purpose For you can never prove from Scripture reason or Nonconformists principles either that the ministerie of the Church of England is absolutely false or that any Ministers in the Church be false in the second acceptation of the word It is needlesse to proceed further in the examination of particular Authors CAN Stay sect 12. p. 118 because you your selfe doe affirme as much The godly say you are admonished to examine doctrines delivered to them in a right way and order And if they find any by teaching to be a false Prophet Id. sect 11. p. 115. they are to depose him and afterwards not to heare him againe Againe it is a question whether the godly in the Jewish Church having by hearing discovered the Scribes and Pharisees to be strangers that is false Prophets might afterward heare them againe Robins Iustif of separa p. 434. The Treatiser was once of minde that they might not and gave some reasons for it But howsoever the case is not easily to be determined considering the state of that Church and time yet this is cleare to all men of sound judgement that in the Churches now under the Gospell false Prophets may not be suffered But after due and orderly conviction being found so and obstinate they are to bee rejected and so no outward hearing of them any more Whence briefly let these things be noted First that the effects may be right and lawfull when the instruments are wrong and unlawfull in themselves and that a man may lawfully communicate in the effects of such actions whose instruments are unlawfull For the Scribes and Pharisees were unlawfull instruments by your own confession T.C. to his sister Anne Stubs You have indeed enough that bitterly speake against us but having no reproofes in their mouths nor arguments to confute their thunderbolts of judgement and condemnation are like headlesse arrowes not taken out of the Lords quiver but from their owne sides c. but the effects of their ministerie in which the faithfull might and did lawfully communicate A false Prophet not discovered not convicted orderly before he can be deemed obstinate and cast forth is an unlawfull instrument but you will not say the effects of his Ministerie are unlawfull and not to be communicated in I might here adde that is unskillfull to confound instruments and working causes or linke them together as if there were the same reason of both seeing all instruments are not working causes Secondly the Ministers of the Church of England have not duely and orderly beene convinced of corruption in doctrine especially in points fundamentall or that their place and standing is unlawfull much lesse can they be esteemed obstinate They were never cast out by the faithfull and true members of the Church but approved maintained and reverenced by them All reformed Churches all the faithfull in the reformed Churches doe acknowledge them the servants of Jesus Christ approve their standing reverence their gifts hold communion with them professe the same doctrine which they maintaine and praise God for his blessing upon their labours And now consider with what uprightnesse and integritie you have alleadged these Authors against the hearing of the word in our English Assemblies as if all the Ministers of the Church were false Prophets convicted obstinate and outed the Church You tell us peremptorily CAN. Necess of Separ p. 188. If the reformed Churches do justifie the English therein they condemne greatly their own practice for in their constitution ministerie worship and Government they are as opposite as light and darknes one to the other Bilson Christ subject part 4 p. 542. We would have you regard if not your consciences before God yet your credits before men Can you find nothing to object that the Sun doth not shine at Noone-day Is it not apparant to all the Christian world that the reformed Churches doe give unto us the right hand of fellowship and esteem as us the true Churches of Iesus Christ In manner of government they differ from us and they have abolished some rites and Ceremonies which we retaine as matters indifferent not as matters of holines necessity or worship this is the profession of our Church but in doctrine worship and ministery for the substance thereof there is a sweete agreement And the differences that are betwixt them and us in other matters Calv. instit l. 4. c. 18 Sect. 32. Confess Helv. c. 27 Angl. Conf. art 34 Aug. Conf. art 7. Bohem. Conf. art 15. Calv Ep. col 170. â—p col 478. they have so learned to tolerate as neither to condemne their owne practice nor to dis-church us and the like Christian moderation they receive from us backe againe The Churches of Christ have not learned to cure every scratch of a pin with a knife or launce This art of curing they leave to you who was never admitted into the society of discreete Physitians among them or us Thirdly consider how uncertaine their wayes are who walke in darknesse Sometimes the Scribes and Pharisees were to be heard because they were lawfully called Sometimes they might not be heard sometime it is a case not easily determined and sometimes in the Churches now under the New Testament false Prophets are not to be suffered as if the passages of Scripture forbidding to heare false Prophets must be restrained to the times of the Golpell Such
staggerings and grosse delusions in others CAN. Necess of Separ p. 39. 48. c. Bilson Christ Subject part â— page 406. would have occasioned out-cries to raise the Countrey As for that which you alledge against ignorant idle profane Ministers it is not to the purpose for that respects not the office it selfe but the men in the office who may enter unlawfully and continue in the execution of their office The Church of Corinth had then as al other Churches now have or should have both praying preaching annexed and adjoyned to the ministration of the Lords Supper Both these yet are and ever were the meanes which God ordained to prepare us to be fit guests for that Table Bishop Iewel his Sermon on Iosh 6.1 2 3. This care must shew it selfe in removing blinde watch-men which have no knowledge who are but dumbe dogges that cannot bark c. Nonresidence and absence from their cure is a fault that would be amended CAN. Necess of Separ page 44. 45. Admonit 1. page 15. 16. Sold. Barw in the shep-heards of the Lords flocke Though they be never so able to instruct and therefore vvorthy to have roomes in the Church yet if they have not a desire to doe good c. CAN. Necess of Separ page 216. Another fault no lesse hurtfull to the Church of God is the suffering of pluralities when one taketh the profit of two or more Benefices c. when the Ministery it selfe for substance and that which is done by Ministers unlawfully executing their place is not to be condemned as a nullitie It is one thing to justifie an ignorant or idle ministerie another to make use of that which hee doth to our edification according to the Ordinance of God They are not approved of God in their ministration but what they doe administer is effectuall and God approveth that his people when they cannot remove them should make use of their Ministerie This the Non-conformists hold agreeable to their owne principles as hath been shewed at large Parsons Vicars Stipendaries Parish Priests Chapleines are but various Titles given to the same kinde of Ministerie in divers persons which is Evangelicall instituted of Christ and to be exercised and maintained in the Church untill the comming of Christ to judgment You affirm with great confidence that the Non-conformists condemn both their names and offices as wholly from that Roman Antichrist These be your words If you will know say the Non-conformists whence all these came wee can easily answer you that they came from the Pope as out of the Trojan horses belly to the destruction of Gods kingdome It is certaine that their name and office is wholly from that Roman Antichrist never instituted either by Christ or his Apostles For the Church of God never knew them neither doth any reformed Church in the world know them These are cloudes without raine trees without fruit painted Sepulchers full of dead bones fatted in all abundance of iniquity such as seeke not the Lord Iesus but their owne bellies Againe touching their Parsons Vicars Stipendaries Chapleines c. we have proved from their writings that these names and offices came wholly from the Divell and Antichrist and therefore his pleading for Baal is altogether here unusefull as to say All is one kinde of Ministerie and in this respect they are Parsons and in that respect Vicars c. For as much may a Papist say of their Parsons Vicars c. We strive not with you for names and words but about the substance of the Office and Ministery Non enim in nominibus sed in rebus sita est nostra religio ut rectè monet Gregorius Theologus in Orat. quam habuit coram 150. Episcopis in Concil secundo Constantino anno 382. Nihil apud me distat in verbo quod non distat in sensu Ambr. com in Luc. lib. 2. Every godly and learned Minister Pastor of the Church hath more interest right in respect of his office c. for as much as he hath an ordinary calling of God and function appointed in Scriptures which he exerciseth T. C. rep 1. pag. 21. It is observed by the Learned that this hath been not the least of Satans sleights in conveying Popery from step to step and point to point to keep the speech change the sense of the Learned and Ancient Fathers As the Papists deale with the Fathers so doe you with the Nonconformists and as true too If therefore he would have justified those men he should first have manifested that his Brethren have notoriously sâ—andred their ministery and so have quite taken away their reasons better by shewing better c. But we have learned to try before we trust To contend about the bare names and Titles of Parson is vain and frivolous but if we speake of their office and ministery as it is exercised by the godly learned and painefull Ministers in the Church of England for the substance thereof it is instituted of Christ acknowledged by all true Churches in the world ever since the first plantation of the Christian Church knowne by all reformed Churches at this day blessed of God abundantly and so maintained by the Non-conformists Against the Name it may bee some have taken exception and against the pride idlenesse covetousnesse c. of some much hath bin written but that the office it selfe of Parson or Vicar as they preach the Gospell of Iesus Christ or administer the Sacraments according to the Institution and watch over the flock of Christ committed to their charge that this office I say for substance should bee condemned as Anticâ—ristian by the Non-conformists is notoriously false and the contrary is apparently known unto your selfe For many of them have publikely maintained the truth of their ministery in writing others have publikely professed they acknowledge the Church and ministery to bee true and of God and diverse have exercised the functions of Vicars and Parsons in our Assemblies And whether it be probable that so many seeking for reformation would publikely condemne that office as altogether Antichristian which they exercised in the Church let your Conscience judge In that which you alledge out of the admonition to this purpose you grossely play the juggler For it speakes not of the office of Parsons and Vicars at all much lesse of them all Their words let them bee compared with that which you write in their name are these wee should be too long to tell your honours of Cathed Churches the Dens aforesaid of all lovtering lâ—bbeâ—s where M. Deane M Vice-Deane M. Canons or Prebendaries the greater Mr. Pettie Canons or Canons the lesser Mr. Chancellour of the Church M. Treasurer otherwise called Iudas the Pursebearer the chiefe Chaunter Singing men speciall favourers of Religion Squealing Choristers Organ-Players Gospellers Pistelers Pensioners Readers Vergerers c. live in great idlenesse and have their abiding If you would know whence all these came we can easily answer you that they
came from the Pope as out of the Trojan horses belly to the destruction of Gods kingdome The Church of God never knew them neither doth any reformed Church in the world know them And birds of the same feather are covetous Patrons of Benefices Parsons Vicars Readers Parish Priests Stipendaries and riding Chapleins that under the authoritie of their Masters spoile their flock of the foode of their soules such seeke not the Lord Iesus but their owne bellies clouds they are without raine trees without fruit painted Sepulchers full of dead bones fatted in all aboundance of iniquitie and leane Locusts in all feeling knowledge and sincerity Hier. in Syâ—â— Ruffin Perversi homines ad assentiâ—nem dogmatum suorum sub virorum Sanctorum nomine interseruerunt ea quae illi nunquam scripserunt Virg. An. l. 2. Accipe nunc Danaum insidias crimine ab uno disce omnes CAN. Necess of repar p. 48. 49. 〈◊〉 Can any Legerdemaine be more palpable than to apply these words to the office of Parsons and Vicars and their Ministerie who painefully diligently and profitably spend and have spent their time and strength in the service of the Lord Iesus Christ and of his Church If you will so grossely mistake or pervert their writings how shall wee beleeve you upon your word when you report that this or that you have heard or seene That a man from those principles may infer a lawfull separation from all spirituall communion in the ministerie of our English Churches you think every one if he understand what a principle is will freely grant And for my part I thinke every man that understands what the Non-conformists principles are or what a true conclusion rightly deduced from sound or true principles is will freely grant that your separation from the ministery of the Church of England in the Ordinances of worship is rash groundlesse and sinfull contrary to right reason the Non conformists principles and the holy Scriptures And so I commend the worth or weaknesse of what I have written to your consideration intreating if you can to bring gentle words and weight of matter as best beseemeth a good cause CHAP. II. THat God must be worshipped according to his owne will and commandement Bilson Christ. subject part 3. p. 302. It is onely Gods office to appoint how he will be served Tertul. de praescrip advers haeret Nobis nihil licet de nostro arbitrio indulgere sed nec eligere quod aliquis de arbitrio suo induxerit Apostolos Domini habemus Authores qui nec ipsi quidquaÌ„ de suo arbitrio quod inducerunt elegerunt sed acceptum à Christo c. Can. stay sec 3 p. 16 Can. Neces of Separat p. 72 73 74 75 76 77. and that nothing must goe under the name of worship which he hath not commanded or instituted in his Word is a truth confessed and maintained by the Church of England Conformists and Non-conformists So that it is altogether needlesse to spend many words and quote many Authors to prove that which is commonly received if it be not a wrong to mention that as a principle of the Non-conformists which is the doctrine of the Church with one consent professed of all the members of the societie Else where you write but your speech is over-lavish as most commonly it is that all sorts and sects of Writers acknowledg this for a truth that to worship God in any other way or manner than he hath in his Word prescribed is unlawfull And therefore this paines here taken might well have been spared but the plenty herein may serve to hide your poverty in that which is to be proved Your Reason to prove the necessitie of separation from the Non-conformists Principles is thus laid downe The Lord in Scripture hath laid it as a straight charge upon all the faithfull to separate themselves from Idolaters Sect. 1 Can. Neces of Separat cap. 2. sec 3. pag. 83 84. and to be as unlike to them as may be specially in their religious observations and ceremonies The second Commandement proves this effectually for there is absolutely forbidden all participation in any feigned service whether it be to the true God or any other When Jeroboam had set up a false worship we reade Hosea 4.14 15. Amos 5.5 that the good Prophets of that time and after called the godly Israelites away from it and bid them in plaine termes not to joyne therewith but on the contrary to keepe Gods Commandentents and statutes appointed for his service without adding any thing to them or taking any thing from them And this they must doe although the King had confirmed his new Religion by Act of Parliament or Councell and therefore no doubt would persecute most grâ—evously all the refusers thereof c. Thus you goe on in foure leaves or thereabouts to confirme your proposition Answer Ibid. pag. 84. to 92. and yet it may be questioned whether you doe confirme or explaine every particular conteined therein For if it be demanded what it is to be as unlike to Idolaters as much as may be and how that is proved to be necessary either by the commandement of God or practice of the godly without some fit or due limitation which is not added I suppose you will be to seeke much lesse can it be concluded out of this discourse But let us heare your Assumption But the worship of the English-Church-Service-Booke hath no warrant by Gods word Can. Neces p. 85. bid pag. 91. but it is a devised false and idolatrous worship If we take a strict view of that ministery worship and government which they left at Dan and Bethel it will appeare evidently that the same was not more false idolatrous and unlawfull Id. pag. 85. than the present ministery worship and government of the English Assemblyes is by the Non-conformists affirmed to be And because none may thinke that I speake more than can be proved I will therefore here lay downe an apologie or pretext which an idolatrous Israelite might frame in the defence of the Kings Religion Freshsute lib. 2. pag. 80. taken out of their owne writings And if Dr Ames phrase be tolerable I will pawne my head that there is never a Nonconformist this day in the world let him keep to their grounds that is able to give more pretty reasons Course of conform pag. 161. and colourable shewes to justifie the Religion of the Church of England That all worship Answer which hath not warrant from Gods word is unlawfull Socrates was wont to say Every God was to be honoured as he himselfe had given in commandement August de Conf. Evang lib. 1. cap. 18. Wherefore as Michah and Ieroboam grievously offended so whosoever brings into Gods service any thing of his own device he sinneth deadly But Images Crosses and Crucifixes are mens devices whereby they flatter themselves in pleasing God therfore they ought to be abhorred Calfe
against Martiall Preface to the reader Bellarm. lib. 3. de justifi c. 8. Non potest aliquid certuÌ„ esse certitudine fidei nisi aut immediate contineatur in verbo Dei aut ex verbo Dei per evidentem consequentiaÌ„ deducatur Park de pol. Eccl. l. 1. c. 1.4 Separabant se sacerdotes et Levitae qui Deum timebant 2 Chro. 11.14 Atqui haec separaâ—â—o ab Israelitis idolatris erar quâ— legemcult umque Dei per idola Ieroboam fundamentaliter sustulerunt Aug. de unit eccl c. 16. Let the Donatists if they can shew their Church not in rumors and speeches of the men of Africa nor in the couÌ„cels of their Bishops nor in the discourses of any writer whatsoever nor in the signes and miracles that may be forged but in the prescript of the Law in the predictions of the Prophets in the verses of the Psalmes in the voyces of the Shepheard himselfe c. that all devised false and idolatrous worship is to be abhorred is confessed and professed by Conformists and Nonconformists It is a constant received position That nothing ought to be tolerated in the Church as necessary unto salvation or as an article of faith except it be expresly contained in the word of God or manifestly to be gathered therefrom and that all ceremonies are to be rejected wherein there is placed opinion of merit worship or necessitie to salvation But that the worship tendred to God in the English Congregations is devised false idolatrous that the Nonconformists never said nor thought and whosoever shall rashly affirme it he shall never be able to make proofe thereof by the word of God If any rite prescribed in the book of Common-prayer be worship in the use thereof the word being taken in a large signification that is not so in the intention and profession of the Church nor apprehended to be so in them that conforme unto it neither doth it defile the worship of God to them that joyne in the ordinances of grace notwithstanding the corruption which in their judgement is annexed to it and practised by some For notwithstanding such corruption or abuse the worship it selfe is that which God hath prescribed approved blessed to them that seeke his face aright and serve him unfeignedly whereat he requireth our presence and wherein he hath promised to sup with us and we with him That the Non-conformists should affirme the worship of God or ministery in the English Assemblies to be as false idolatrous and unlawfull as was the worship of Jeroboam at Dan and Bethel is a most lewd and impudent slander which the sworne shavelingâ— of Antichrist whose profession is to lye and slander for the catholique cause would blush to vent You know it is contrary to their judgement practice prosession and protestations many times renewed Whether the phrase be tolerable or no if you will be prodigall to pawne your head in this case take heed lest you loose it not in Gods cause but in your owne And if you shall be desperate herein your forwardnesse will move no wise man for Religion is to be learned from the truth of God and not from the high adventures of inconsiderate men The Non-conformists can prove the Religion and worship of the Church of England to be of God not by petty reasons and colourable shewes which they leave to them that maintaine a bad cause but by pregnant evidence from the word of truth not by similitudes allegories and forced interpretations of Scripture as you dispute against it but by plaine texts of Scripture and sound reason deduced therefrom against which the gates of hell shall never prevaile The Author of that Booke Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 349. This is the doubt betwixt us whether we should coÌ„tent our selves with such meanes as he hath devised for us and coÌ„mended unto us thereby daily to renew the memory of our Redemption or else inveÌ„t others of our own heads fit perhaps to provoke us to a naturall and humane affection but not fit to instruct ourfaith c. He knowing that images though they did intertaine the eyes with some delight yet might they snare the souls of many simple silly persons and preferring the least seed of sound faith beholding adoring him in spirit truth before all the dumbe shewes and Imagerie that maÌ„s wit could furnish to win the eye Can. Neces of Separat c. 2. p. 78 79. 254. according to a prescript form culled out of the blasphemous Mass-book 238. That which was takeÌ„ out of the vile Masse-booke c. Sold. â—aâ—w T. C. repl 1. pag. 130. Abridg. p. 89. Adm. 1. p. 9. 2. Adm. p. 41. Fall of Babyl â—9 Altar Damasc pag. 612 613. Syons plea. 29. Perth Assemb 64. Syons plea. 30. pag. 40. 〈…〉 intituled The course of Conformitie sheweth that the Israelites might in generall pretend for Jeroboams calves the same excuses that were made in defence of some corruptions thrust upon the Church of Scotland but the corruptions he doth not make to be like nor the pretences to be of equall validitie nor the state of the Church where such corruptions are tollerated to be the same with the state of the Israelites who worshipped the Calves Abuses that agree in the generall nature of abuse may be coloured with the same pretences when they be not of the same weight qualitie or degree the one may be small the other hainous The same distinction may be brought to countenance the vilest heresie and a petty errour if I may so speake Heresie and Idolatry are both talkative and who doubts but corrupt wits can say much in defence of both shall we thence conclude that errour or heresie are both one every abuse is grosse idolatry The Author you quote was not so unadvised His drift was onely to shew the vanitie of such excuses and not to match the things pleaded for with Jeroboams Idolatry as hath been shewed before But let us see whether you can alledge any colourable shew or petty reason to prove our worship to be false and idolatrous The whole forme of the Church-service is borrowed from the Papists peiced and patched together without reason or order of edification yea not onely is the forme of it taken from the Church of Antichrist but surely the matter also For none can deny but it was culled and picked out of that popish dunghill the portius and vile Masse-booke full of all abhominations From three Romish Channels I say was it raked together namely the Breviarie out of which the common prayers are taken out of the Rituall or booke of Rites the administration of the Sacraments Buriall Matrimony Visitation of the sick are taken and out of the Masse-booke are the Consecration of the Lords Supper Collects Gospels and Epistles And for this cause it is that the Papists like so well of the English Masse for so King James used to call it and makes them say Surely the Romish is the true and
right Religion Else the Heretiques in England would never have received so much of it For some have avouched it to my face saith the Author of the Curtaine of Church-power that the service there is nothing to the Masse in the English others that it wants nothing but the Popes consecration These things thus retrived it was also thought that popish Kings and Princes would be the lesse offended what marvaile seeing the Jesuites themselves are so well pleased with the ceremonies and service that I heard one of them God is my witnesse herein make it his hope that the maintenance of them against the Puritans would make England the sooner returne to Rome in the rest Quâ—vadis sec 4. Mine eyes and eares saith Bishop Hall can witnesse with what approofe and applause divers of the catholique royall as they are termed entertained the new translated Liturgies of our Church Which is the lesse wonder seeing Pope Pius the fourth sending Vicentio Parpatia Cambd. An. 1560. Abbot of Saint Saviours to Queene Elizabeth offered to confirme the English Liturgie by his Authoritie if shee would yeeld to him in some other things Indeed it pleased them so well Fresh suit l. 1 203. that for the first eleven yeares of Queene Elizabeth Papists came to the English Church and service as the Lord Cooke sheweth L. Cooke de jure Regis Eccles f. 34. Syons plea. 49.91 Others of them affirme the same namely their Church-service pleaseth marveilous well the Romish Beast and his ungodly followers Witnesse the Pacification of the Devonshire-Papists in the time of King Edward the sixth when as they understood it was no other but the very Masse-booke put into English Witnesse also the assertion of Dr Carrier a dangerous seducing Papist The common-prayer-booke saith he and the Catechisme conteined in it hold no point of doctrine expresly contrary to Antiquitie that is Consider pag. 45. sect 8 9. as he explaineth himselfe the Romish-service onely hath not enough in it And for the doctrine of predestination Sacraments grace free-will and sin c. The new Catechismes and Sermons of the Puritan-preachers run wholly against the common-prayer and Catechisme therein conteined c. Motiv Preface to the Answ And thereupon he comforteth himselfe upon the hope of the supply of the rest To this effect speaketh Bristow and Harding If these things be right why not the rest It shall not be amisse to marke one occurrence in Queene Elizabeths time who being interdicted by the Popes Bull Secretary Walsingham tryed a tricke of State-policy to reverse the same He caused two of the Popes Intelligencers at the Popes appointment to be brought as it were in secret into England to whom he appointed a guide being a State Intelligencer who should shew them in Canterbury and London service solemnly sung and said with all their pomp and procession Which order the popish Intelligencers seeing and so much admiring they wondred that their Master would be so unadvised as to interdict a Prince or State whose service and ceremonies so symbolized with his owne So returning it the Pope they shewed him his oversight affirming that they saw no service ceremonies or Church-order's in England but they might have very well beene performed in Rome whereupon the Bull was presently called in That which you alledge against the English-Service-booke in particular Answer you intend against all set-formes of prayer or stinted Liturgies whatsoever For the use of them is a false devised idolatrous antichristian worship in your account Thus you know your Brethren of the Separation have disallowed all set and stinted formes Johnson Ainsworth Robinson Greenewood c. as humane inventions forbidden in the second Commandement Images Will-worship Idol-prayers False-worship Lip-labour c. And you your selfe insist upon this principle of the Nonconformists as the cause of Separation from the Church of England that all formes of worship not prescribed of God are will-worship which if it maketh against one holdeth against all prescribed Liturgies Can. Neces of Separat pag. 114. Id. pag. 115. Againe you confesse that every Church is not to be forsaken or left which hath something in it by participation idolatrous And therefore our Service is not devised worship because it is taken out of the Masse-booke as you alledge but simply because it is devised whencesoever it had its originall if it be devised worship First therefore we must consider the matter in generall Oylsâ—hil speaking of Images brought into the Church saith Wee might justly condemn the whole faithlesse fond invention For it was but a will-worship a naughtie service having no ground of the Word of God and onely spring of errour Calf Preface to the Reader testifieth Bilson Christ subject part 2. p. 297. That Princes may prescribe what faith they list what service of God they please what forme of administration of the Sacraments they thinke best is no part of our thought or point of our doctrine yet that Princes may by their lawes prescribe the right faith to bee preached the right service of God in spirit and truth to be used c. T. C. repl 1. pag. 8. Park of the Crosse par 1. ca. 4. sect 7. pag. 177. A. W. ans to late popish Artic. p. 73. and then try what is alledged against our booke of Common-prayer These words Formes of worship may be taken two wayes First to note the substantiall parts or meanes of worship and in this sense it is most true That all formes of worship not prescribed of God are unlawfull and false worship because devised by men Secondly To note a bare order methode or phrase wherein divine Service is performed And in this sense the Nonconformists never said That all formes of worship not prescribed are false or devised worship For they know that no forme is determined and prescribed of God precisely in all parts of his worship and where none is set apart by his Majestie it is a breach of his Commandement and devised worship to place an opinion of worship in the simple order or phrase of speech used in prayer or administration of holy things The Nonconformists condemne not a Liturgie or stinted forme of prayer but desire that all things therein might be ordered as doth tend most to edification Whatsoever exceptions they have taken against our Booke of Common-prayer they never disliked the use of it so far as they judged it sound and good They doe not condemne it wholly but finde fault with it as in some points disagreeing with the word of God What hath beene their seeking from time to time a razing of the Communion Booke No but a purging and filing of it after the patterne of that care which former examples set us The Booke of Common-prayer they condemne not as a wicked and ungodly Booke much lesse the Service as false devised and idolatrous but they have and doe use the booke and professe their readinesse so to doe onely they desire to
the word and elements Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 356. To the Papists objecting that as Magistrates Parents have part of Gods externall honour because they present his person in judging and blessing so many Images have part of his externall though not of his internall honour Answer is truly returned It is not in your hands to make allowance of Gods honour to whom you list and againe God himselfe hath made a plaine prohibition in this case that Images shall have no part of his externall honour The words are as cleare as day light Thou shalt no bow downe to them Tho Beacon Catech in his workes in fol. printed at London Ann. 1562. f. 484. Fox in Osor lib. 3. pag. 27. The Booke of Common-prayer before the Communion Cypr. Ep. 63. ad Caecisiâ—m Justin Martyr in Apol. 2 Iren. lib. 4. cap. 34 lib. 5. cap. 4. Gratian. Decret part 3. de Conseâ—r dist 2. cap. 10.12 18.36 Durand rational divin offic lib. 4. cap. 5â— how comes it to have those things which are so directly contrary to the Masse that both cannot possibly stand together In our booke of Common-prayer we pray to God onely in the mediation of Jesus Christ and in a knowne language We professe that Christ by one oblation of himselfe once for all hath made a full perfect and sufficient satisfaction for the sinnes of the whole world that he hath commanded a perpetuall remembrance of his death and passion in that his ordinance of the Supper and that the Sacrament is to be administred in both kinds the Minister and the people communicating together were these things taken out of the Masse-booke The Church of Rome joyneth the two first Commandements in one or taketh away the second thereby to cloake their Idolatry in the worshipping of Images But the common-prayer-booke of the Church of England divideth them into two therein following two of the Fathers at most excepted all Antiquitie and fetteth downe the words of the second Commandement at large The Church of Rome teacheth that in the Sacrament of the Eucharist the body and bloud of Christ is received and eaten carnally that as much is received in one kinde as in both and that in the Masse Christ is offered 〈…〉 a propitiatory unblouddy Sacrifice for the sinnes of 〈◊〉 and dead But the common-prayer-booke of the Church of England in the forme of administring that Sacrament teacheth expresly That spiritually by faith wee feed on him in our hearts eating and drinking in remembrance that Christ dyed and shed his bloud for us In the Masse the Priest receiveth alone the people standing by gazing on but the Minister and people are appointed with us to communicate together according to the institution of Christ and practice of the primitive Church We make the communion of the Eucharist properly a Sacrament They a Sacrament and a Sacrifice propitiatory They celebrate at an Altar wee at a Table according to the example of our Saviour Christ his Apostles and the primitive Church in the purest times Wee pray for the living They for the living and dead And if these be not points directly and expresly contrary to the Romane service Rome is much departed from her selfe Carriers pretence in that particular is a meere jugling trick that he might insinuate a change of Religion might be made among us without any great alteration which is as likely as the light should be turned into darknesse and not espied If many points of Popery be not condemned expresly in the Catechisme or Service-booke which are for the instruction of the simple in the grounds of Religion and the administration of the holy things of God and not to shew what is condemned in Religion yet so many points are there taught directly coÌ„trary to the foundation of Popery that it is not possible Popery should stand if they take place And whereas Antichristianisme standeth in ungodly superstructions and additions to the truth and worship of God both matter and object if the Catechisme and Service-booke have not enough in them in his sense of necessitie they contradict the whole bulke of Popery which confisteth in abhominable superfluities or impious inventions of their owne It is mone proper to say the Masse was added to our common-prayer than that our common-prayer was taken out of the Masse-booke For most things in our common-prayer were to be found in the Liturgies of the Church long before the Masse whereof wee speake was heard of in the world And the Masse was patched up by degrees and added to the Liturgie of the Church now one peice then another so that the ancient truths and holy Liturgies were at last stained with the Idoll of the Masse Bishop Jewel Ser. on Josh 6.1 2 3. The things that may bee reserved viz. in the destruction of Hiericho must not bee dust or chasse or hay or stubble But gold silver iron and brasse I meane they may not be things meet to furnish maintaine superstition but such things as be strong and may serve either directly to serve God or els for comelinesse and good order which was sacrilegiously thrust into them But the prayers and truths of God taught in that Booke pertained to the Church as her prerogative the Masse and the abhominations thereof belonged into the man of sinne And if a true man may challenge his goods which the theese hath drawne into his denne the Church of God may lawfully make claime unto those holy things which Antichrist hath unjustly usurped That answer which is returned to the accusation makes against them that sue for discipline viz. That a great part of their discipline is borrowed from the Anabaptists will serve as a buckler in this case And it is this which I doubt not you will approve Whatsoever is proper either to the heresie of Papists and Anabaptists Donatists or Puritanes that wee utterly condemne to the pit of hell But if amongst the filth of their heresies there may be found any good thing as it were a graine of good corne in a great deale of Darnell that we willingly receive not as theirs but as the Jewes did the holy Arke from the Philistins T. C. repl 2. par 1. Epistle to the Chh of England whereof they were unjust owners For herein that is true that is said The sheepe must not lay downe her fell because shee seeth the Wolfe sometimes cloathed with it August lib. 2. Serm. de Monte yea it may come to passe that the Synagogue of Satan may have some one thing at one time with more convenience than the true and catholique Church of Christ Bishop Jewel Ser. in Iosh 6.1.2.3 In religion no part is to be called little A haire is but little yet it hath a shadow If our Booke please the Papists it is but in some things wherein in reverence to Antiquitie we come too nigh them in some rites and ceremonies but with the substance of the ministration it selfe they cannot be pleased unlesse they be
doe nothing but reade as that which makes men neglect the preaching of the Word therefore a prescript Liturgie is disliked To appoint or use a prayer conceived or stinted as the Papists doe their Mattens and Evensong for a set service to God howsoever it be uttered ignorantly for custome with lips onely alone or with others in publique or private as if the rehearsall of such words though neither understood nonheard were an acceptable service from l Bils Christ subject part 4. p. 416. Your maine foundation is a dreame of your owne that the Church of Corinth had a prescribed nuÌ„ber of prayers pronounced by some one Chapsaine that said his lessoÌ„ within book and might not goe one line besides his Missale for any good This you imagine was their Church-Service all other prayers Psalmes blessings thankesgivings though they were used openly in the Congregation and the whole people bound to say Amen you will not have to be called Church-service which he must not depart one word for any good is a superstition justly to be condemned Thus to repeate the words of a prayer though never so good and holy is not to pray But this makes nothing against the lawfull holy religions use of a stinted forme of prayer publique or private which is that we plead for And this is all that can be gathered from the Author of the Admonition There needs no great skill to discerne the inconsequence of this manner of arguing which here you use To use a stinted forme as the Papists doe for a set-service is naught though the words be good therefore a stinted or prescribed forme is altogether unlawfull And put case some private or singular person hath spoken roughly in heate and passion of the Booke of Common-prayer or seemed to disallow the stinted use of a publike found of prayer or Liturgie his speech or position delivered as his private conceite and perhaps not rightly apprehended must not be interpreted the principle of the Nonconformists contrary to the tenour of their writing profession and practice much lesse must his words be racked contrary to his meaning as if he condemned all stinted Liturgies as falso deâ—ised and idolatrous worship or did leane unto favour or uphold the practice of separation from the assemblies because such Liturgies are in use among them Howsoever by the grounds of the Nonconformists laid downe in the second section Sect. 3 Can. Neces of Separat pag. 92 93 94 c. to 98. separation must necessarily follow from all communion with them in the worship of their Church-service-booke yet to have the point more fully proved I will here shew that every particular thereof is affirmed of themselves to be idolatrous false Antichristian Touching the Booke we may consider two things First The distinct services thereof Secondly The Ceremonies used in and about the same Wee will speake first of their Ceremonies that is of the Crosse Surplice and Kneeling in the act of receiving the Lords Supper Against these many Treatises have beene purposely written I will here onely observe some of their speeches referring the Reader to their Bookes if he desire more satisfaction c. Voluntary separation from the ordinances of Religion in our assemblies Answer is neither commanded by God nor taught by the Prophets or Apostles It is not approved by the practice of the Saints nor grounded upon the principles of the Nonconformists as hath beene shewed That there be m A disputation against the English-popish c. Epistle to the Reformed Churches In England Ireland every noysom weed which Gods hand never had planted was not pulled up c. Sprint repl to the answ pag. 269. acknowledgeth the reformatioÌ„ of England to have been defective abuses and corruptions in the Booke the Nonconformists doe not deny and therefore in all humilitie they have sought to have them reformed but that they affirme the whole service thereof to be idolatrous false Antichristian that is your impudent slander That many Treatises have been written against the Ceremonies imposed upon the Ministers and people is very true But in the relation which you make out of them these few things must be observed First what is spoken of one Ceremony you apply to all when there is not the same reason of all in the judgement of them that wrote Secondly what they write of the Ceremonies as they are used amongst the Papists that you report as if they understood it of the use of the Ceremonies as they are imposed and injoyned amongst us Thirdly The private opinion of one you alledge as if it was the common principle of the Nonconformists though you doe or might know that generally they are of another mind Fourthly Amongst your chiefest Nonconformists you alledge such as be not English-Nonconformists nor speake of English-Conformitie but that which was lately brought in among themselves whose case doth much differ from ours in their judgement But the further examination of these things is needlesse let us heare how from these principles of the Nonconformists you can conclude the necessitie of Separation From all which Can. Neces of Sepâ—rat pag. 98. this argument may be framed That worship in which a man cannot possibly communicate without sinne he is bound necessarily to separate from But that worship in which these Idolls are made and used viz. the Crosse Surplice and Kneeling a man cannot possibly communicate without sinne Therefore from that worship wherein these Idols are made and used a man is bound necessarily to separate The proposition is certaine and by Doctor Ames in his cases of Conscience acknowledged Although saith n Lib. 4. cap. 24. he we may joyne to that Church in which many defects are to be tolerated yet not to that in which we cannot but necessarily partake in sinne The Assumption is assented unto by as o Parker Crosse lib. 1. pag. 20. 21. judicious and zealous Nonconformists as ever held that cause and they have brought good proofes for it First because men must flie from Idols and Idolothites But when they come to worship God after the order of the Congregation where these things are practised they doe not flie from them but draw neere unto them Secondly Their bare presence argues their approbation and yeelding in shew to Ceremonies Thirdly p Mr. Bates p. 258. Though the personall sinnes of the Minister doe not hurt the people yet his ministeriall and publique sinnes doe hurt which he performes for the people to God and so their joyning with him is unlawfull Fourthly What example can be brought where the holy men of God have communicated with such things The Author of the dispute upon communicating at thier confused Communions affirmes confidently that the sitter is accessary to the sinne of the keeler and he gives many reasons for it whereof wee shall have a fit occasion hereafter to speake Can any man beleeve Answer that the Nonconformists say both parts of your reason are true viz. That a man
is bound to separate from that societie wherewith he is not permitted to hold communion in the worship of God without sinne and that a man cannot hold communion with the Church of England in the worship of God without sinne The first of these propositions is most true taught in Scripture which forbiddeth q Rom. 3.7 8. to doe evill that good may come thereof or r Iob 13.9 tell a lie for the glory of God and acknowledged by the learned of all sorts and professions whatsoever If the Church shall deny communion to any member because he will not approve the least sinne or acknowledge the least knowne errour for truth in that case the Church is schismaticall which doth cast out such a member and not the member which doth suffer himselfe injuriously to be cast out For God needs not my lie and by divine precept I am obliged not to allow against conscience what the Lord condemneth You need not therefore take such paines as you doe to prove the corruptions in our Booke of publique service to be so many in number or hainous in quality as you would make the world beleeve much lesse to straine your conscience in misreporting as you have done For if you can shew that by communicating in the ordinances of worship in that or any other societie or Church under Heaven we necessarily partake in sinne of what sort soever great or small either approving what is unlawfull or subscribing to an errour knowne so to be it will easily be granted that it is unlawfull to joyne in that communitie Be the s The good Kings of Judah were favoured and blessed of God for walking in the waies of David their Father and purging the Land from all sacrifices and ceremonies not prescribed by Moses Law Bils Christ subject part 1. p. 32. But if the Princes were remisse the people were not commanded to separate from the ordinances of worship corruptions few or many great or small if by communicating in the ordinances of grace in that societie I must necessarily partake in sinne small or great one or many my communicating is unwarrantable And let the abuses be many and great yet if I may be present at the true worship of God without sinne consent unto or approbation of such abuses or corruptions in voluntary separation I sinne against God his Church and mine owne soule withdrawing my selfe from the ordinances of grace the comfortable presence of Christ and the societie of his Saints without allowance or approbation from God to whom I owe my selfe wholly Your long Catalogue of corruptions to be found in our Liturgie is to small purpose unlesse you could prove some of them to be fundamentall hereticall and really idolatrous which you can never doe or that by communicating in the ordinances of grace we doe t Be the abuses never so palpable if the person be not authorized of God to reforme them or separate it is not Just or lawfull for private persons to attempt them For when Malefactors deserve to die it is not for private men to put them to death without the Magistrate Bilson Christ subject part 3. pa. 97. David committed adultery Salomon erected idolatry both offences being death by Gods law might the people therefore have David and Salomon to death approve such corruptions and then be they one or many great or small wee must not communicate in the ordinances with them Which if any man shall lightly beleeve he may know from whom but not whither to flie For there will be found no societie in the whole world whereunto a Christian might lawfully joyne himselfe and yours much lesse than many others You tell us very confidently that as zealous and judicious Nonconformists as ever held that cause affirme that a man cannot without sinne communicate in that worship where the Ceremonies are used But whether should a man admire more your impudency or vaine confidence herein Must not he mistrust you in every thing that shall consider how notoriously you lavish in this particular Is it not contrary to their profession protestation and practice Doe they not usually frequent the Congregations have they not written in maintenance and defence thereof who have cryed downe by conference preaching writing the neglect of Gods ordinances or the practice of separation more than they And yet you blush not to write that our Assumption is assented unto by as judicious and zealous Nonconformists as ever held that cause and they have brought good reasons for it First You quote Mr u Parker lib. 1. pag. 20 21. Parker That men must flie from Idols and Idolothites but men when they come to worship God in societies where the Ceremonies are used they doe not flie from Idols but draw neere unto them But if a man should have sought out a place of purpose to manifest your fraudulent and unconscionable alledging of mens words and sayings he could scarce have found a second more pregnant The whole passage in Mr Parker to which you send us I will set downe at large because it serves to cleere the matter in many particulars and all men may take the better notice of your fidelitie There is an Idoll more strictly taken saith he and an Idoll of larger sence which will include the Crosse For the better understanding whereof wee must borrow a distinction from the w Tho. Aqui. com in Epist ad Coloss c. 1. sect 4. Schoolmen by which a thing may be guilty of Idolatry Essentialiter participative and causaliter which our doctrine at * Hom. of Idolat par 1. pag. 4 5. home doth backe that is confirmed by act of Parliament affirming that to be an Idoll in Gods service which hath beene or is like to be worshipped What is worshipped by our selves that is an Idoll essentially what hath been worshipped or is now worshipped abroad by others that is an Idoll by participation what is likely to be worshipped that is an x August vet Testam qu. lib. 7. qu. 41. Idoll causing Idolatry in time to come In which sense Gideons Ephod may be termed an Idoll quedam modo and that it may be even before it was adored And hereby are many objections answered Our y Rainold de Idol lib. 2. â—ap 2. sect 2. Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 321. Call you the Image of Christ an Idoll not unlesse it be worshipped but if it be then it is an Idoll and incense burnt unto it is Idolatrie Writers deny an Image in the Church say some to be an Idoll in case it be not worshipped True an Idoll essentially but as many of them as desire to have Images thrust out of the Church of which sort there be a great number they hold them guilty of Idolatry by participation and by occasioning or els why will they thrust them out A second objection is wont to be made If the signe of the Crosse be an Idol with us then must men separate from our Church and from
5. ca. 21. weighed and not numbred and that the errours of all these sorts are in specie much more dangerous and pernicious though not so many If you can prove any one errour in specie hereticall to be taught in those Bookes according to the true meaning and intent of the Bookes then I will consent unto you that he which administers in all things according unto them is not a true Minister of Jesus Christ But if that cannot be done and I presume you will hardly be drawne to attempt it in all your raging termes and reproachfull taunts cast upon our worship Church and Ministery you doe but foame out your owne shame The true Ministers of Christ may erre in many things else it will hardly be found that there is any true Minister and therefore to prove a Minister to be a false Prophet it sufficeth not to say he s Cypr. li. 2. Ep. 3. If any of our predecessors either ignotantly or simply did not observe keepe that which the Lord by his example and authoritie willed his simplicitie may be pardoned by the goodnesse of God Aug. Ep. 48. This blemish in his most beautifull breast hee covered with the teares of charitie August de Baptis l. 4. cap. 5. Ignosci potest simpliciter erranti erreth in many things but wee must shew the errours for qualitie to be such as cannot be in a true or lawfull Prophet of the Lord And here I would aske you this one Question Whether there was any true Ministery in the Christian Churches within the space of the fourth fift or fixt ages after Christ If not what is then become of the promises of God made to the Churches of the New Testament If yes whether was not their course of administration polluted with as many or more dangerous errours than can truely be named in all the Bookes forementioned And so expecting your resolution of this one demand I proceed to your third ground of Separation drawne as you say from the Nonconformists Principles CHAP. III. SECT I. IF the publique Assemblies of England have not the power of the censures Can. Neces of Separat p. 149 150. and excommunication but stand under a government which came wholly and every part from the Devill and Antichrist then is their condition naught then are they false and Antichristian Churches The reason is because this power is of absolute necessitie for the Churches of Christ an essentiall propertie thereof and serve not onely for their well-being but the being it selfe for without this there can be no coupling of the parts and members together And so much t De consc lib. 4. cap. 24. pag. 214. Dr Ames testifieth Now the Assemblies of England were not gathered by any such power but in their first constitution wanted the same and had this false power which is exercised at this day as the Nonconformists doe acknowledge Our arguments which we have used in this point have been to this effect Every true visible Church hath a power immediately under Christ to execute Church-government But the publique Congregations of England have not any such power under Christ to execute Church-government Therefore they are not true visible Churches What they will say to this I know not but hitherto they have been silent or answered to no purpose in the world For it is usually their manner to tell us how the Churches in Corinth Pergamus Thyatira c. neglected to execute discipline as though there were no difference betwixt omitting to administer the ordinance and the want wholly of it yea and to have an Antichristian and devilish in the roome of it ANSVVER YOu undertooke to prove the necessitie of Separation from the Nonconformists Principles But here you reject their Principles with disdaine and build your responsive conclusions as you call them upon your own foundation which you know doth not accord with their Principles The Nonconformists hold discipline necessary to the well-being of a Church the safety of Religion the preservation of Gods ordinances from contempt They compare it to the u Bilson perpet ch gov ca. 1. Since the Church of Christ is the house of God the Citie of the living GOD and the kingdome of his welbeloved Sonne Shall we thinke that God is carefull for others carelesse for his own or that confusion ought to be lesse doubted and feared in heavenly than in earthly things wall of a Citie hedge of a Vineyard fence of a Garden and bounds of an Orchard but never said it to be of absolute w Jewel Serm. on Iosh 6.1 2 3. Discipline is so needfull that neither without it shall ye be able thoroughly to discomfort those that seeke to build up Jericho c. necessitie that there could be no Citie Vineyard Garden or Orchard without it But this in your judgement is broken-stuffe not worthy any answer For where doe they read say x Can. Neces of Separat pag. 151. you in Scripture that this power which Christ hath given to his Church is compared to a wall or hedge c. But rather it may be likened to the power of the body which receiveth food and thereby excrements are purged and avoided the want whereof were in nature prodigious neither could the body possibly subsist and live In the same page you take up Dr Laiton roundly after your manner for saying that the y Cypr. lib. 1. ep 10. Concil Carthag 3. ca. 35. Gratian. decr p. 3. dist 2. cap. 95 96. Bils Christ subject part 2. pa. 335. I do not mislike that malefactors of all kinds not only drūkards railers perjurers adulterers usurers and such like but also theeves robbers ravishers murderers plagiaries incendiaries traytors and all other hainous offenders when their lives be spared by Princes should be driven to earnest and open repentance before they be received into the Church or admitted to the divine mysteries yea rather I thinke it very needfull in a Christian Common-wealth that God be pleased and the Church preserved from all communion with these monstrous impieties c. want of an integrall part of the whole is no sufficient ground of Separation He speakes you say as a man most ignorant of the nature of Church-power for were he able truly to define it he should see that it is of such necessitie as a people cannot constitute themselves in the right order of the Gospell without it as we have before expressed Expressed it may be but not proved by Scripture or reason drawne from Scripture How palpably you abuse Dr Ames testimony is shewed before and it makes as plainly against your reason as a thing can be spoken But that is broken-stuffe which pleaseth you not and he is ignorant that applauds not your dictates To be taunted and reviled is answer sufficient to be given to us simple poore ignorants who know not truely to define what Church-power is But whether this stuffe be broken or the Nonconformists ignorant what Church-power is or
no this is evident your inferences in this point are not correspondent to their Principles nor can be deduced from them as in the beginning you promised And then upon what bottome doth this reason stand or by what prop is it underset but your own bare affirmation which is much too weake to beare so great a weight Whosoever meanes z Can. Neces of Separat pag. 210. you say to settle well the conscience especially in a maine point of faith and Religion ought necessarily to bring good proofes from Scripture for the things whereof he speaketh For otherwise men must give no trust unto his words or if they doe it must be unadvisedly And what thinke you then if men upon your bare word give credit unto this argument is it not unadvised You bid a Bilson difference part 1. pag. 20. What we say without proofe reject you without answer If that rule may stand we need no further confutation of the rest of your Apologie for there besides taunts termes I see nothing prove the contrary if any man be able But that is not to ground the conscience upon Gods truth If your assertion be not taught in holy Scripture it is an unwritten tradition an humane invention a dreame of your owne in your conceit false worship and flat Idolatry though your opposites be able to say nothing against it but this that it is not taught of God What the Nonconformists will say to this argument you know not but hitherto they have said nothing or as good as nothing It is well you say not both Propositions are theirs as you doe in the former with as little truth as if you had said it here But if you had perused their writings against Separation as you have observed what sharp words they let fall against the corruptions in our Church and Liturgie you might have knowne that they say somewhat and somewhat to the purpose not worthy your answer but what can never be truly answered First Discipline they say is taken two wayes First Largely for the whole order pertaining to the gathering and governing of a Church the ordering of divine worship and manner of men And in this sense b Bilson perpet Ch. govern cap. 1. pag. 3. Order and Discipline the very nurse and mother of all peace and quietnesse as well in divine as in humane Societies assemblies though it be not the life or spirit that quickneth the Church yet doth it fasten and knit the members thereof as joynts and sinewes do the parts of our bodies Id. ca. 9. The Gospell must be preached the Sacramēts must be frequented for which purpose some must be taken to the publique service and ministery of the Church c. Neither onely the lack of the Word and Sacraments but the prophanation and abuse of either how greatly doth it endanger the state and welfare of the whole Church of Christ yea the casting of holy things to dogs and of pearles before swine how dreadfull a judgement doth it procure as well to the consenters as presumers A little Leaven sowreth the whole masse So that power to send Labourers into Gods harvest and to separate prophane persons for defiling the mysteries and assemblies of the faithfull must be retained and used in the Church of Christ unlesse we will turne the house of God into a den of theeves c. Act. 2.41 42.44 45 46 47. 11.20 21.26 13.43.48 14.1.21 22 23. Discipline is neither the matter nor forme of the Church but an inseparable propertie and so there can be no Church without some Discripline Secondly It is taken strictly for the administration of the censures in which sense it is not absolutely necessary to the being but to the well-being and safetie of the Church Secondly They answer that by divine right the power of the keyes is given to every compleat Apostolicall Church but the execution of this power may be wanting either through their negligence or because they are hindred as in Sardis Thyatira Ephesus c. And this is to the purpose for the Question is of the power to execute the Discipline of Christ and not of the simple right to execute it And in your opinion the execution of Discipline is absolutely necessary to the being of the Church without which it can neither be gathered nor subsist Take your owne comparison unlesse the body doe both receive food and purge out excrements it is not possible it should subsist and live If therefore Sardis Pergamus Thyatira c. continued the true Churches of Christ when the greater sort would not and the better could not purge out excrements or all were grossely negligent it followeth that the execution of discipline or power to execute discipline is not absolutely necessary to the being of the Church Thirdly The Church of England wanteth not the discipline of Christ for substance either in respect of right or execution though it be not administred as it ought These are the Answers which they give and they are too heavie to be spurned away with scorne when ever you shall try their weight Thus I might dismisse your first band as being put to flight already But I will spend a little time to examine both propositions And for the first it is to be noted that the word Church to let passe other significations is taken First For the communitie of the faithfull few or many two three or more men or women without guides or officers for beleevers dispersed and scattered by persecution spoyled of their guides or such as being newly called never had guides set over them are yet the true Church of Christ Secondly The societie of the faithfull joyning together in the ordinances of worship under a lawfull Pastour is a true Church though defective in many officers and ordinances required to the perfection of the Church Thirdly A c Bilson ibid. ca. 1. The internall regiment that God hath by his Spirit and truth in the hearts of the faithfull is the true kingdom of christ cannot be varied is not questioned in the Church of England But there is a necessitie also of externall goverment which respecteth the appointing of meete men and repelling of unmeete to be trusted with the heavenly treasures of the Word and Sacraments As also the good using and right dividing of so precious Iewells committed to their charge competent number of faithfull people joyned in societie under lawfull Pastours Teachers and Elders to watch over rule feed and guide them in the waies of God are a true and compleat constituted Church of Jesus Christ The word Discipline also is used two wayes as hath been said First In a larger sense as comprehending all order and behaviour concerning a Church in outward duties and so among the rest the daily planting and building by the calling and offering of the Word by the Ministers and the hearing receiving and obeying by the people As military discipline is put for the whole art or manner of
what if you doe not reade that Diotrephes was an unlawfull and Antichristian Minister you reade that he usurped over the faithfull hindred the due execution of Church-censures abused excommunication prated against the Brethren and practised a false government And if the want of discipline or neglect of due execution prove a Church to be no Church the faithfull in that societie were bound to separate If the Church had not the power of government at this time if we may beleeve you or receive your position they were no church if they had power in their hands and suffered it to be abused their sinne was the greater And if you take a view of your dealings in this or other particulars vilifying what you are not able to confute and wresting mens words contrary to their plaine meaning if your paper blush not I can hardly thinke but your conscience will smite SECT II. IF the Church of England hath not Christs keyes Can. Neces of Separat pag. 154. shee is not his saith Mr D. But the Church of England hath not Christs keyes saith Mr Brightman and y Syons plea. 111. others Therefore shee is not his house and consequently to be separated from ANSVVER YOur former reasons out of Mr D. I passe over because they have been answered already and are here thrust in to no purpose but onely to cover the insufficiency of your reply His answer was the want of discipline though an integrall part is no sufficient ground of separation This z Can. Neces of Separat p. 152 153. you offer not to disprove by any substantiall reason but with railing and reproach to disgrace wherein whether you more wound your own conscience or hurt your adversary be judge your selfe a Can. Neces of Separat pag. 212. 1 Pet. 3.9 Rom. 13.21 You say truely It is a Christian part not to render rebuke for rebuke and a thousand times better were it to sustaine even a legion of reproaches than for a man by turning though but one to give cause of suspition that evill hath got some part of conquest over him But if you looke into your own writings you shall finde them stuffed with insolent boasting scornfull taunts and reproaches unbeseeming your place person and a good cause I dare say all the Nonconformists that ever wrote in the cause of discipline never went in practise so much against their Principles as you in this one particular goe against your profession in the foresaid passage and a good conscience The matter in hand betwixt you and Mr D. is the absolute necessitie of Church-discipline to the being of a Church To what end then doe you bring That the Book of common-prayer used in the Assemblies of England is an infectious Liturgie Romish-stuffe a devised service raked out of three Romish Channells That the Ministery of the Church of England is unlawfull and Antichristian That the Ministery worship and government of of England are corruptions Doth this make ought to confirme your position or weaken the answer which was truely given But some thing must be said whether to or besides the purpose it matters not Another stratageme b Can. Neces of Separat pag. 153. you put in practice in the same place not very commendable You would seeme to confute the D. out of himselfe What say you if it appeare that Mr D. arguments doe lead rather to separation and that he speaketh one thing and practiseth another would not this be a strange sight especially to himselfe Now whether this be so we will here try by some reasons in his owne moode and figure But though the moode and figure be his the reasons be your owne and not his and the conclusions unjustly drawne from the Premises as the D. answered and we have shewed before Perhaps in warre stratagems may be of use but in the cause of God such cunning devices are dangerous symptoms This I note to entreat your serious reexamination of what you have done and now I come to the argument here propounded whereunto I make answer as you relate it for I have not the D. Booke to search out what he hath written The power of the keyes is twofold Concioualis Judicialis as it is usually called The first consists in the preaching of the Gospell wherein the kingdome of heaven is opened to the penitent sinnes remitted life promised and heaven shut to the obstinate which is the sword and the scepter of Christ whereby he saveth his people 2 Cor. 1.21 2 Cor. 10.4 Isa 11.4 Rom. 1.16 and conquereth his enemies beateth downe every strong hold pâ—ireeth to the division of foule and spirit and of the joynts and marrow and judgeth the very cogitations and thoughts of the heart These effects Christ executeth by his Word even when it is not assisted by the c To excommunicate is to remove the wicked irrepentant from participation of the Lords Supper least by sacrilegious presuming to violate that Table the ungodly should condemne themselves and defile others Bilson perpet gov cap. 9. discipline spoken of Now if it be rightly understood the Church of God cannot be without this key For the Church is gathered by the Word and is a company or societie which hath received the Word in profession at least and doth possesse it and amongst whom it dwelleth The Judiciall power of the d Excommunication is a meere spirituall punishment reacheth no further by Gods word than to take from offenders the remission of their sinnes by wanting the Word and Sacraments untill they repent Bilson Christian. part 3. pag. 52. keyes is the power of government which consisteth principally in the right ordering and dispensation of Church censures and so of the manners and necessities of all men which agreeth not to any one member nor to the communitie of the faithfull nor to any one singular governour but to the Ecclesiasticall Senate yet with due respect had to the communitie of the faithfull In the first sense the Church of England hath the power of the keyes e Cyp. lib. 1. epist 3. I hardly perswade the people yea I am forced to wrest it from them before they will suffer such to be admitted Bilson perpet gov c. 9. Great reason had those godly Fathers to see the whole Church satisfied before they released the sentence of excommunication c. and so doing they shewed not what right the multitude had to sit Iudges with the Bishop but what â—â—e themselves had to remove from the people all occasions of stumbling Id. pag. 113. If you take Excommunication for removing the unruly from the civill societie of the faithfull untill they conforme themselves unto a more Christian course of life I am not altogether averse that the whole Church should concurre in that action c. See August contr Par Ep. 1 l. 2. ca. 1. Can. Stay Sect. 12. pag. 123. not so much as is to be desired but in an eminent sort and that with Gods
and in this you doe not pretend the Nonconformists principles as you did in the former The exceptions also which you take against them are not in respect of gifts learning or diligence nor that they are brought into the Church by Antichrist but chiefly in respect of the office and Ministery it selfe That which you object concerning the name that it is new as you doe before against Parsons Vicars and Curates that they are Popish is too slight to be insisted upon For these and divers other names or titles given to the Preachers of the Word doe not note different Ministeries for substance and kinde but different accidents whereby the Ministers are distinguished and sometimes the employment whereabout they are principally exercised But the Ministery which is exercised under those names is for substance one and the same which Christ hath appointed and set his Church If any man hath not been able to answer this Question when it hath been propounded what kinde of Ministery the Lecturers have taken up it was from his weaknesse not from the difficultie of the matter And this is no marvaile seeing many Questions seeme Riddles to you which very easily untie themselves or be knit in conceit onely As to the Papists many Questions touching the certaintie of our Religion the calling of our Ministers the continuance of the faith seeming indissoluble which a true hearted Christian can quickly dissolve But you write upon certaine knowledge that some have ingenuously confessed that unlesse they be Evangelists they could not see how their Ministery doth accord with any Ministery mentioned in the New Testament I am not so diffident as to distrust every word that is spoken nor must I be so simple as to beleeve every thing In the quoting of mens words in writing and giving the sense of them I finde you trip so often ignorantly or upon set purpose and so many times to quote that as making for you which is as direct against you as can be spoken that without breach of charitie I may suspect some such thing in this particular either that you mistooke their meaning or misrelate their words or set downe your owne consequence for their position or the like Instances of your mistaking enough hath beene formerly mentioned in this very place there be two of no small note nor hard to be disproved First you say The Nonconformists condemne the calling of Parsons and Vicars their office you meane as false and Antichristian But their practice and profession both doth evidence the contrary to the whole world as hath beene shewed And if you will mistake their writings so palpably and againe and againe affirme them from their writings what is not there to be found but is direct contrary to their judgement writing and practice how can we beleeve that you truely report their words Secondly you say The Reformists doe utterly condemne this extraordinary office of Preachers Lecturers you understand by extraordinary Preachers but extraordinary they are not either in respect of their calling or the worke wherein they are imployed And the Nonconformists are so farre from condemning that office that it is well knowne many if not the greatest part of them had none other calling or office in the Church And I presume every reasonable man will conceive it an unlikely thing that so many godly and learned men suffering many and great troubles against other abuses should choose to live in such a calling against the light of their conscience Can. Neces of â—parat pag. 〈◊〉 210. 2â—3 If Dr. And 〈◊〉 not boasted of 〈◊〉 mans booke c. Id. pag. 224 This is the booke which Mr. Paget upbraids us with Arr. against Separat pag. 38. And you know some have maintained whose judgement therein and workes are approved by others of the same ranke That the Ministery of godly Preachers and so of Lecturers in the Church of England in all substantiall and essentiall parts is that very Ministery which Christ hath instituted and ordained in the New Testament and which he hath blessed for the gathering and building forward of his Church in faith and holinesse It is not then the common judgement of the Reformists nor the private opinion of any particular man of that minde that I have seene or heard of that the office or calling of a Lecturer is utterly to be condemned Who the Author is or what the worke which you quote entituled The Necessitie of Discipline I know not nor what he saith Perhaps you alledge him as you have done others wrongfully It may be he speakes of some circumstances not of the substance of the calling If he goe any further it is his private conceit and must not be imputed to the Reformists as you stile them We neede not here dispute of the difference betwixt the Pastour and the Teacher nor to enquire whether of these they are to be esteemed untill the difference betwixt them be exactly defined and substantially proved If for substance of Ministery they doe the worke of the Lord Jesus and by his approbation this sufficeth First then here it is to be noted that the Officers of the Church are not so distinguished by heir speciall limits and bounds but the superiour may doe the office of the rest if necessitie require As if the societie be small meet Officers cannot be had or be wanting for a time or taken away by death The Pastour may supply the roome of the Teacher Elder or Deacon that is he may teach watch over the manners of the people and take speciall care of the poore as the Apostles did for a time Secondly If the Pastour be aged weake sickly unable to beare the burden of his charge alone he may take unto him with consent of the societie and colledge Ecclesiasticall Assisters or Helpers Videl in Ignat ad Mariam exercit 3. Vt tam praesentes in urbe sublevarentur quam ut absentibus ipsis Ecclesiae pastoribus destituta non esset delegerunt scil Apostoli sibi coadjutores Quod nominatim ex Epiphanio heres Sozom. hist lib. 2. cap. 19. Euseb lib. 6. ca. 10. Gr. 27. apparet Tales fuerunt hi tres Clemens Linus Cletus Aut ut noster Author ait Anacletus So Maximus helped Macarius untill his death and Augustine Valerius And if the Pastour be carelesse or negligent it is lawfull for the people to provide for themselves by the best meanes that they can or God is pleased to afford unto them that they might be taught and instructed in the wayes of holinesse Thirdly Pastours are to feede the flocke committed unto their care yet so as many Pastours may be set over one flock which they must feede in common And to this purpose some write A dispute par 3. cap. 8. pag. 170. that the Apostolique and Primitive times knew neither Parishionall nor Diocesan Churches but Christians lived then in Cities onely not in Villages because of the persecution Act. 20.27 28. Phil. 1.1 1 Thes 5.12 Act.