Take heed of both Extremes OR Plain and useful Cautions AGAINST POPERY AND PRESBYTERY By way of DIALOGUE In Two Parts By LVKE DE BEAVLIEV LONDON Printed for Henry Brome at the Gun in St. Paul's Church-Yard 1675. TO THE Christian Courteous and Impartial READER I Would fain oblige thee in the beginning of my Book because possibly the rest will not please thee so well Therefore instead of a Preface or a short Advertisement wherewith usually the Reader is put off I give thee an Epistle Dedicatory This I hope will prove acceptable in that it is a new device and also because thou mayst have very cheap the Honour of having had a Book Dedicated to thee But yet besides I assure thee that this Book of itself is worth thy reading for it will make thee see in their natural shape and colours many things which before appeared only under a disguise and if thou art a Lover of Truth as all pretend to be thou canst not but rejoice to see it come out from under the Cloud where before it lay hid And withal thou mayst use it as an Antidote against the Infection of some sugared Poisons which many venture to drink of not knowing their deadly Qualities Therefore I require thee that thou wouldest not fling away the Book as soon as thou findest some things in it against thy former persuasions or thy present liking for oftentimes wholesom Physic is the most unpleasant and if thou readest through and then repentest of thy labour I give it here under my hand that I also will repent of mine but if the Book doth work upon thee the good effect I intended all the Requital I expect is this that as thou art unknown to the Author so thou wouldest not enquire after him because he is unwilling to be known any otherwise than by being Thy Real Friend and Affectionate Well-wisher L. B. P. THE PREFACE MAny Learned Books have been written against the Errors of the Church of Rome by several worthy Champions of the Church of England but usually they read them most that have least need of them while in the mean time they that have but little of knowledge are left unarmed against the Crafts and Subtilties of the Propagators of the Roman Faith I know there is an in-bred Aversion to Popery in the major part of our People but Popery is now a word of a very dubious signification and means rather what every one dislikes than what is so indeed and it is to be seen in the second part of this Book that they that exclaim'd most against what they pleased to call Popery ran themselves into the worst of Popish Errors However 't is not a brutish Hatred or a blind Zeal against unknown Errors can secure us from them A man may easily embrace his mortal Enemy if he knows him not or if he meets him under a disguise Jesuites are Travesty among us and so is their Doctrine they put a strange garb as well upon their Opinions as upon their Persons and I am confident they win more Proselytes by mis-representing the Popish Religion than by proving it to be true Therefore that they might no longer be imposed upon that have not the leisure or the capacity of knowing what the Papists do really believe contrary to that sound and orthodox Doctrine which is profest in the Church of England I have here set down their real Opinions taken out of their most approved Doctors and the Council of Trent itself having transcrib'd their very words without any the least alteration and then Englisht them as faithfully as their sense did require And afterwards I have added some of those places of Scripture which I thought most express against those Errors which our Church hath rejected as being contrary to Gods Word and the Faith of the Primitive Church Now if any man likes those Doctrines of the Church of Rome as they are really in themselves and as they stand in opposition to the Word of God let him embrace them if it so please him but let none flatter himself or be made to believe by others that the Popish Tenets I have mentioned are not so bad as I represent them for I have used the very Words and Expressions of their own Authors which certainly could not be made either better or worse by being transcrib'd by me Perhaps I shall be censur'd for having writ my Book Dialogue-wise and not well manag'd the Intrigue but if they that find fault with this like the matter let them not mind the form if not I had as lieve they should dislike both as but one onely My design was not to make a Dramatic Piece but to make my Actors speak truth This way of writing is easie to the meanest capacities and I am minded to imitate at least in the method that excellent Dialogue called the F.D. However if I can profit those that shall read me I little care whether I please them or not And now if it may be lawful for a Controvertist to moralize a little give me leave to tell thee Dear Reader that what I have written is not to engage thee into Disputes and Religious Quarrels I had rather thou shouldest read The whole Duty of Man and the excellent Discourse which that pious Author hath written against Disputes in his Decay of Christian Piety than this Book of mine By discovering the foul stains of those Religions that make shew of a fair and specious outside my design is not to teach thee how to rail at them or wrangle with their followers But to make thee love and obey that holy Religion which is taught in the Church of England and which promiseth rewards to her followers not for hating those that are of different Persuasions but for obeying the Precepts of Christ If thou art an ill liver no matter what Religion thou art of thy recompence shall be according to thy Works if not thy Creed and a Good Life will do thy soul more good than much Knowledge and Activity in what concerns the Differences among Christians in points of Religion And if thou dost ask me why therefore I should meddle with them and not be wholly employed in the performance of good Works I answer somewhat like as Aphraates did Valens when he came into Antioch to oppose himself to the then prevailing Error of Arius and the Emperor askt him why he had left his Religious Retirement to come into the City Niceph. l. 11. c. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. When the flock of Christ is in danger of being seduced it behoves me also to do my utmost endeavour for its Preservation And when my heavenly Fathers house is set on fire I will by all means endeavour to quench it and fling water upon it though it were but one drop Imprimatur Tho. Tomkyns Ex Aed Lambethanis Decemb. 13. 1675. Popery Manifested AND THE Papist Incognito made known By way of DIALOGUE between a Papist Priest a Protestant Gentleman and a
make more Saints Oh it will be a comfortable work to gather and order Saints of our own making Nay though some of the Saints were froward and perchance unruly yet because they helpt to do the work of the Lord they were not to be blotted out of the Calendar for he saith a little before Saints must not be persecuted though they be peevish nay desperate I must not out of a sullen humour deny a peevish Saint the right-hand of fellowship But enough of this you shall find scattered up and down this Book Now as for your keeping of days for the old Saints I confess you are not for that neither do you keep any for Christ that would be you know what But you know also that when the designs of the new Saints were blest with success there was by Authority a day kept in remembrance of it with much solemnity So it seems the destroying of the Kings Forces was a mercy great enough to make a Holy-day of it but it would be Idolatry to do the same in remembrance of those precious mercies the Church receives from what Christ did and suffered for her and his holy Apostles after him As for praying to the ancient and despised Saints it would be to no purpose your new ones having got their place and belike their power too we have seen already that your prayers are effectual beyond what their intercessions could be which is the reason I suppose that when any amongst you is going a Journey or hath some other design in hand or feels the want of any temporal or spiritual thing he desires the prayers of the Saints in your Conventicles So there appears to me no other difference in the case but that our Saints are dead and Canonized by the Pope whereas yours for the most part are alive and of your own making Now I hope I have satisfied you and made it appear that you come much nearer to Popery than the Church of England which by your own confession hath nothing common with us that 's bad but a few Ceremonies and this of order which don't much concern Religion and which according to your Chronology were in the Christian Church long before Popery whereas you own both in belief and practice many of the Popish Doctrines which are counted the worst of our errours only you disguise them a little and put them in a Presbyterian Garb. Pr. Worthy Sir you might have spar'd your great pains for all you have said will not perswade any one man that we have any good will for the Papists 't is too well known that there is an irreconcileable antipathy betwixt them and us No we detest those opinions and practices of yours which you would perswade the world we approve and imitate and we agree with you in nothing that other Protestants disagree in Pa. Yes we do we both hate the Church of England I am sure we are agreed in that except you have gone beyond us as I remember Mr. Love said when there was an overture for peace pag. 42. At Uxbridge Is it likely to have peace with such men as these We can as soon make fire and water to agree I had almost said reconcile Heaven and Earth But there is enough said already to prove that As for your disclaiming friendship with us it only perswades me that you are of those generous Friends who oblige people behind their backs without desiring that any notice should be taken of it for to use Mr. Loves words pag. 22. When â—ou had put down the Pests and Plague-sores of the Kingdom Episcopacy and Common-Prayer Books you thereby advanced our interest greatly and did us a notable piece of service for then you left no visible Church no known Rules of Doctrines no set form of Government and Discipline so that whilst your tedious Rabbies were hammering in their brains the new form of a future Church according to their several fancies or according to the Pattern in the Mount the people were fain to betake themselves some to the Communion of our Church as not a few did and other some to Madness and Enthusiasm as did a great many more And besides the scandal which you brought upon the first Reformation by your fine doings was so great that thanks be to you it hath perswaded a great many that there is no safety but in the Church of Rome where there is a constant union and order So we find a Book printed in 1652. call'd A Beacon set on fire or an Information of the Stationers to the Parliament concerning the great advancement the Papists made and the many Books they printed as also the many blasphemous Books which others put out And in the seasonable Exhortation of the London Ministers 1660. they tell us pag. 10. That all manner of blasphemous and horrid Opinions were openly written and published that there was in many Atheism and contempt of Religion in others Scepticism and Irresolution in many and that some were grown to that heigth of wickedness as to worship the Devil himself And there they complain also That some by their back-sliding and apostacy fell from the truth to Popery as being the only Religion wherein unity and order was retained All which how naturally they issued from your late doings and how much the Pope and Devil were beholding to you for I leave to your own conscienciousness to consider And one thing more that makes me believe that you have more kindness for us than you own by words is that you destroy'd the King and the Church of England by the same means that were appointed by Campanella a cunning Politician and a great Enemy to Protestants pag. 160. The English Bishops it should have been Puritans are to be exasperated and put into fears and jealousies by telling them that the King of Scotland King James turned Protestant out of hope but that he will quickly return to the former Religion when he is establisht in the English Throne The same advice is also lately given by the Marquiss de C. in his Politique de France in that Chapter that treats of England That counsel was followed by you and prov'd successful the outcry whereby you rais'd the people against our late martyr'd Sovereign was Popery Rome Babylon therefore after all this judge you whether we must not be very ungrateful if we did not ingenuously acknowledge that we are highly beholding to you Pr. All that signifies nothing for we differ from the Church of England only in some few Ceremonies being agreed as to the Essentials both of Doctrine and Discipline We honour the first Reformators of this Church and we are perfectly agreed with the reformed Churches beyond Sea which we love and reverence and desire to imitate and when you have said all you can this will be truth still and I am sure will be believ'd so to be by all rational men Pa. I know that one of your Brethren an ancient Sophister in his last scribbling against Doctor
Gods Word against many of your Doctrines and by what many learned men have written out of the best Records of Antiquity if you durst read them that those things in debate betwixt us are at the best but doubtful therefore 't will be more sure to relie chiefly on what is believ'd of both parties our common Symbol or Christian Creed You use to say that yours is the safest Church because we believe as well as you that men may be sav'd in it And now I use the same reason and say that 't is better to believe as we do because you also acknowledge what we believe to be sound and Orthodox That the Scripture is the Word of God and therefore infallible That God is the only Object of our Religious Adoration That Jesus Christ is in Heaven and there to be worshipped That his Blood doth cleanse us from all sin That he intercedes for us and That he will render to every man according to his works the Scripture is plain in all this and you believe it as well as we therefore 't is much more certain and to be relied on than the Popes Infallibility the worshipping Images with the worship of Douleia as you speak the belief of Transubstantiation the Doctrine of Purgatory the relying on the Merits Satisfactions and Intercessions of the Saints and the Pardons and Indulgences of the Church-treasure Bell. de Justif l. 5. c. 7. Propter incertitudinem propriae justitiae periculum inanis Gloriae tutissimum est fiduciam totam in sola dei misericordia benignitate reponere Because of the uncertainty of our own righteousness and the danger of self-conceitedness it is safest of all to put our whole trust in the mercy of God The like might be said of all other points in question But why could not the learned Cardinal say so before and spare himself the great labours he took about Purgatory Indulgences and the Merits and Satisfactions of our selves and others by saying plainly Tutissimum est 't is safest of all to relie upon Gods mercy Certainly in a thing of that moment we should go the surest way to work But pray learn that Lesson of that great Champion of your Church and mind what I have said Now I 'll tell you if you stay a while longer I expect Master V. a Presbyterian Minister one that will tell you stoutly of the Beast and the Whore of Babylon and many other things that will please you as well I should be very glad to hear you discourse together and perhaps 't will not be altogether unpleasant to you P. Ho Master V. I know him of old I would go many a mile to see him and to talk with him I have of late lookt over many of their Presbyterian Books as they printed in the time of the late War I 'll warrant you I 'll make brave sport with him if you please but to stand Spectator or Auditor for a while if you can be patient enough to hear us I dare promise you we 'll find discourse enough to entertain your attention G. I will The Preface THe Doctrines and Constitutions of the Church of England which are rejected and opposed by the Presbyterians have been so fully asserted against their Objections and Innovations by the labours of several learned men that it had been actum agere to thrust my Sickle into other mens Harvest to say any thing in defence of them I have therefore made it my only business to discover their profest Religion as it hath been solemnly taught by the Deeds and Writings of their greatest Divines because I observe that they also draw people after them chiefly by concealing or misrepresenting of it I will not tell thee before hand that they own the worst of Popish Errours thou shalt judge of it when thou hast made an end of reading this Book But for fear thou shouldst think that thou knowest well enough already what their Doctrines are I will assure thee that they disguise them and cunningly hide their real and worst Opinions under fair and specious pretences I know I shall be told that I rake into the dust of old stories and open the grave of Oblivion c. and be called a Lyar and a Calumniator and what else they please Veritas odium parit But I say that those Authors I have cited have never recanted their Errours nor the Divines of that party ever censured or disowned them or their Writings but they still persist to impose upon the people and draw them away from the Church by the same arts and pretences as they did at first And I protest that though I might I have not mentioned the failings of any one man whom I knew to have repented of them by returning to his duty neither have I falsified any of my Quotations in the least nor made such severe reflections upon them as one might but said just as much as I thought would suffice to make them hang together and let the Reader see the cheat And as for their ill speaking of me I regard it not for let it be never so bad I am sure they have said worse of better men than either I am or pretend to be If it be objected That I have brought in a silly Presbyterian who speaks but two or three words at a time and says nothing in his own defence I desire it may be considered that the Papist having the Conclusion to prove was therefore to be longest in his Discourses and that Replies and a full debate of the points in question had been useless and inconsistent with my intended brevity But the truth is I knew not what my Veterator could have answered to those proofs that were brought against him I desire the Reader to observe whether they do admit of any pleas or evasions And now before I suffer thee to hear the Discourse of my Colloquutors let me require these two things of thee First That whatsoever Religion thou art resolved to profess thou wouldst take heed that by deluding arts and goodly pretences thou beest not made to follow those Doctrines and practices which are hereafter mentioned and the which if thou art a Christian and a Protestant thou canst not but condemn as being erroneous and criminal in the highest degree And secondly That thou would not draw poison out of my Antidote be uncharitable to those that are because I have made thee see their errours such foul Doctrines as thou shalt find in this Book are never good but at second hand and they are mentioned by me with designs of charity that thou mightst avoid them not to make thee hate or despise the Authors or Abettors of them Remember that other mens faults shall not excuse thine Wherefore let him that thinketh he stands take heed lest he fall 1 Cor. 10.12 In stead of insulting over them that are misguided or fallen do thou pray heartily with the Church That God would bring into the way of truth all such as have erred
Durell speaks as if there was hardly any difference betwixt you and the Church of England Bonasius Vapul 1672. p. 80. It may be worth saith he the consideration of those who are in Authority whether they may not enjoy Ecclesiastical Preferments who differ from their Brethren only in some few points of Discipline for as to the Essentials of Discipline I am not so quick-sighted as to find that we disagree c. But if it be so the more wicked you who have made crimes and enormities of a few indifferent points of Discipline What was it the tenderness of your Consciences that made a few Ceremonies to be Popery and Antichristianism so that upon their account you must call upon the people in Sion to war against Babylon Either you are the greatest Cheats in the World or else you differ from your Church at least in those points wherein as I have shewn you come so near to us chuse you which you please As for your loving and honouring the reformed Churches beyond Sea and the first Reformators of this I find no such thing in your Books but rather that you lov'd and honour'd your selves far beyond them all Mr. Dury in his Sermon to the Parliament upon these words Depart ye c. Isai 52.11 p. 5. is pretty plain in it I chose these words saith he because the destruction of Babylon and the deliverance of the Church out of it is the great work which God intends to accomplish by the Gospel in these latter times and because of the relation wherein we do stand to it for I conceive that God is not only working out our deliverance to bring us out of Babylon at this time c. Where could you have been worse than in Babylon before the good men in King Edward the sixth's time had done any thing towards a Reformation So you may hear him say at the 25 pag. None of all the Magistrates or Ministers of other Nations have ever given such an answer to this Call to come out of Babylon as you and we of the Ministry and this people have done for we have undertaken the Cause in the full extent thereof therefore we are in this employment nearer unto God than any others and he is more interest in us and in Scotland than in any other Nation whatsoever Two Witnesses more I hope will make the thing credible Mr. Boden in his Sermon Revel 18.6 Reward her as p. 9. c. saith 'T is no wonder that our forefathers did little or nothing against the Beast and the Babylonians for their eyes were blinded they could not see to work much less to fight but that we having clear visions and full discoveries made of the Beast and her abominations should sit still and be careless and suffer her for ever to play her beastly pranks is a most deadly shame and stain unto us And Mr. Tho. Goodwin in his foresaid Sermon Others had had the honour in the first Age of reforming p. 52. and we had been like blear-eyed Leah yet since we have been abundantly the more fruitful of Saints faithful and chosen And indeed the truth is you went so far beyond all other Reformers that you might well despise them as having done their work very imperfectly to what you did Pr. I took you to be but a Priest but I doubt you are a Jesuite too for you can turn other mens words to what sense you please I believe those good men meant no such thing as the interpretation you give to their words But whether they did or no 't is nothing to us we pin our faith upon no mans sleeve if they have said or done any thing amiss we utterly disclaim it We own the Kings Supreme Authority and we own the Doctrine of the Church of England and to prove the contrary by particular mens words as you have endeavoured to do is altogether lost labour because their Opinions is not the Rule we follow So that all your Quotations evince nothing of what you intended and you well deserve to be laugh'd at for having taken such a huge deal of bootless pains in repeating other mens words Pa. Very well 't is but making up your mouth and wiping of it and looking very demure and then you have done nothing and so you think you can abuse the world everlastingly But stay Sir dear-bought experience hath taught us that your goodly words are little to be trusted and you have approved your selves such incomparable Jugglers that we will see what you tell us before we believe it In the highest of your Rebellion you were for the King forsooth much more now he reigns Th. Palmer was Minister of the Army raised for King and Parliament as he stiles himself in the Title of his Sermon 1644. Mr. Peech at the Siege of Basing was fighting for the King pag. 24. We honour the King we fight for him we resolve though it cost us our lives we will have his love and his presence again And John Arrowsmith before the House of Commons calls him his Dear Sovereign 〈…〉 They saith he that brought our King into this Civil War are a Generation of scornful men that laugh at our Builders as Sanballat and his Complices did at Nehemiah What is this thing as ye do will ye rebel against the King a Generation which can neither find in their hearts to afford a good word of advice to our Dread and Dear Sovereign c. But 't is more than probable that by a worse than Jesuitical Equivocation you meant only a notional King the workmanship of your deceitful Brains for so we find a cunning distinction between the King and the Kings Person Tho. Case in his Sermon to the Court-Martial on 2 Chron. 29.6 7. And Jehoshaphat said unto the Judges Take heed what ye do c Tell them That though they had not a Jehoshaphat to give them that charge in his personal capacity yet they had him in his political capacity So Robert Austin D. D. printed a Book intending to prove 1644. That by the Oath of Allegiance the Parliament was bound to take up Arms though against the Kings personal command for the just defence of the Kings Person Crown and Dignity So you might be sure by such means ever to be for him and have him of your side whatever you did for so Mr. Burroughs prov'd by the same art pag. 27. That his most Loyal Party was not fighting against the King but for the King for the preservation of true Regal Power in the King and his Posterity and to rescue him from the hands of evil men who were his greatest Enemies And he said pag. 57. That the Saints and most Religious had ventured their Lives Fortunes Children and all for the safety of the King One would have taken him then for a great Royalist but that there was an unlucky Equivocation in the case The Scripture saith he pag. 28. bids us to be subject
and are deceived Popery Manifested AND THE Papist Incognito made known By way of DIALOGVE between a Papist Priest a Protestant Gentleman and a Presbyterian Divine The Second Part. Pr. YOur Servant Sir I come to see how you do and to spend an hour with you according to my promise G. Sir you are very welcome I am glad to see you and I was very impatient of your coming as much to enjoy your good company my self as to procure it to this old acquaintance of mine who long'd for it as much as I did Pr. Ha I doubt you have too many such acquaintances I know the man and am sorry to see you should keep company with him an Enemy to Christ and Christian Religion Take heed Sir Antichrist is of a very seducing Spirit Pa. Oh how now Master you fall foul upon me already that 's a very coarse Complement to salute me with the odious name of Antichrist But I hope you are not in earnest for my part I am glad to see you and desire to shake hands with you if it will not defile the holiness of yours Pr. Avoid Satan I would not have so much as your shadow to touch me and I am sorry to polute mine eyes with the sight of such a foul object as you are no there ought to be no communication betwixt light and darkness Pa. That 's true too but I 'll warrant you you and I are much of a dye and I am not of so dark a colour as you think I dare say for all your great aversion to me your Religion and mine differ but a little or at least nothing so much as that of the Church of England which you think comes very near to ours I can make it appear that we of Rome are agreed in many things with the English Presbyterians wherein we greatly differ from other Protestants come my good Friend let you and I dispute the case a little you shall find that I 'll give you great satisfaction in it Pr. These be impertinent brags and paradoxes I need no satisfaction in the case I am sure enough of the contrary There are no men under the Sun that hate and abhor Popery so much as we do therefore you may spare your labour and keep your breath for a better use G. Pray Sir don't shrink or else you 'll give him occasion to insult and me to be doubtful Sure after having been these twenty years set about the extirpation of Popery you are not afraid of being now prov'd a Papist Come make him repent of his bold challenge and make it appear that your practice and opinions are as averse to Rome as your words and clamors have been P. Yet still I stand upon my first ground you come very near to the Church of Rome in many things wherein you differ from the Church of England even in those things that are counted the worst of our errours Pr. I shall quickly confute your false and daring Assertion And first your Church doth greatly derogate from the Word of God and makes it inferiour to her Traditions and the Determinations of her Popes and Councils Can you charge us with any such thing Pa. Yes that I can You do greatly undervalue the same Divine Word to set up your Sermons the higher you perswade your people that that is the only Preaching and the true and only Word of God which you deliver out of your Pulpits so that your own Discourses are more attended and more regarded than the Bible it self And so prevalent is this opinion that those of your sort that go to the Parish Churches defer to go in while the Psalms the Chapters and the Epistle and Gospel are reading as if these were not worth the hearing But what is of the mans own making they will listen to attentively and perhaps write it down and repeat it with a great deal of Devotion Gods Word is but a Woodden Dagger with you it doth not reach the heart but the worst Sermon in your Conventicles pierceth the very soul and makes the people sigh and groan and take on most pitifully the powerfulness of Preaching indangers the very heart-strings And so current 't is amongst you that your Preaching is the Word of God that 't is call'd by the name of The Gospel and to hear it is made a Mark of Election So Mr. Jeremiah Burroughs told the Parliament Serm. Print 1. 645. p. 2. When I consider this place Westminster the extraordinary hand of God in bringing the Gospel to be preacht to you here in power those thoughts presently arise there is hope that there are many souls here belonging to Gods Election surely many will come in and imbrace the Gospel here And by the transcribing those sacred Oracles men were to judge of the condition their souls were in Thomas Palmer in a Sermon of his tells the people 1644. p. 28. That to hear Sermons and not write them is like taking water in a Sieve You keep a Shop-Book saith he O be perswaded to keep a Soul-Book that you may know how your Spiritual Estate stands belike those that had much written had very rich souls what increase or decrease of Grace you make this recording of revealed Truths and Soul-experiences from God would be of admirable use in time of trouble This is the difference in the case we undervalue Scripture that we may heed the more the Decrees of our Pope and you that you may the better attend to the dictates of every one of your Sermonizers Pr. I know all you can alledge will come short of what you would prove therefore I don't intend to trouble my self with answering your impertinencies it would but make our Discourse too tedious let this Gentleman be judge betwixt you and I who are in tâ—e right Pa. That will be very well I 'll follow your example and endeavour to shorten our Dialogue by pleading guilty tâ— every Article Charge our Religion with what you will I 'll deny nothing but shew you your â—wn face in that Mirrour you shall reach to me Come proceed Pr. In your publick Worship you use an unknown Tongue which the people doth not understand and thereby you keep them in ignorance that they may not be able to discern the errours of your Religion I am sure you can tax us with no such thing for we make all things plain to our hearers and they are an understanding and a knowing people who have more light in spiritual matters than any people whatsoever Pa. You do but fancy so they are as ignorant as any of us and they understand as little what you say though you speak English yet you speak an unknown Language to the people for you have so spiritualiz'd Religion that you have made riddles and mysteries of the plainest of its Doctrines it all consists in new-coin'd phrases and spiritual notions and fancies and secrets Pray hear what Mr. Francis Cheynell preacht before the Parliament Serm. 1646. p. 2.
bonds of Allegiance make Subjects to rebel against their Sovereign and be as active for the Kirk as ever the Pope was for the Church so that in this you wanted nothing of being right Catholicks but that you did not fight to advance the holy See but the holy Classis Pr. 'T is well you can make an end at last I could find in my heart to let you talk alone you are so infinitely tedious especially in your Citations Pa. Sir I know that such grave and serious men as you are are gifted with a great deal of patience but yet let me tell you that I could be a great deal more tedious you have made the subject in hand so copious that one must write Volumes that would treat it in its full Latitude But what have you to say next Pr. I say being we are discoursing of War that you Papists are cruel and merciless to those that differ from you in Religion as appears by your Massacres and Inquisitions abroad and your Persecutions and Plots here at home and you make people believe that in their bloudy cruelties against Protestants they do God great service I am sure we are quite of another temper for we preach meekness and forbearance of one another and are for Liberty of Conscience Pa. Nay I know you shall never lack commendation for want of speaking well of your selves your words then are all honey honey-sweet but the mischief is that your actions are in the other extream as bitter as gall 'T is true you are now for forbearance and Liberty of Conscience but when you had the Power in your hands no men ever more strict and severe You tied your selves by a solemn Oath Faithfully to endeavour the discovery of all Malignants and evil Instruments that should hinder the Reformation of Religion that they might be brought to publick tryal and receive condign punishment in the fourth Article of your Solemn League and Covenant for the Reformation and defence of Religion as you call'd it and so whereas there are but few Inquisitors in the Church of Rome you had thousands of them among you every man that had taken the Covenant was bound to be one bound to accuse his own Brother if he were not of your party And so 't is said of Mr. Case that he performed this part of his Oath very conscientiously as indeed it was his Doctrine in his Sermons on the Covenant Case p. 56 If any one persist to hinder Reformation be it the man of thine own house the husband of thine youth the wife of thy bosom c. thou must with all faithfulness endeavour the discovery thine eye must not pity nor spare Deut. 13.6 7 and 8. But I wonder you would speak of cruelty my last Quotations of your Authors being so full of it It seems you would have me make it out that there is a perfect resemblance betwixt your Church and ours in our Zeal for God and Religion Well you shall be satisfied You know the first thing we do to Hereticks is to Excommunicate them so Mr. Cheynel would have those of the Church of England serv'd in the Epistle Dedicatory of his forementioned Sermon he desires the Parliament That if bloudy Delinquents come to compound their Composition may not authorize them to communicate at the Lords Table And he tells them at the 44 pag. There are some sly Malignants who are too wise to be scandalous they do not roar like a Lion but fret like a Moth you will be importun'd that those men may be spar'd because they are not scandalous in their lives have you not read of one Qui sobrius accessit ad perdendam rempublicam Must men be spar'd because they do not fiercely assault Church and State It seems their honesty would signifie nothing to excuse them from your persecution as long as they were not of your party Mr. Coleman had found a way of punishing the Bishops in case they should escape with their lives which I don't remember to have ever been used amongst us T. Coleman 1644. p. 16. Look to all degrees saith he to the Parliament and spare none and amongst the rest the Prelates whose offences in case they should not be found capital that device of sending them to New-England transcends all the inventions I ever met with as good have cast them with Daniel into the Lions Den. Nay it was so much a duty to God to shew no mercy to any of the Kings Party that he had told them before pag. 15. That their ill success in the West was because of their carelesness in keeping and dealing with Delinquents and proves it by this Scripture 1 King 20.42 Thus saith the Lord Because thou hast let go out of thy hand a man whom I appointed to utter destruction therefore thy life shall go for his life and thy people for his people So Mr. Case in a Sermon to the Court-Martial at the 13 pag. There is no dealing with God now T. Case 1644. God is angry he seems to ask this once more Will you stick will you execute Judgment or will you not Tell me for if you will not I will I will have the Enemies bloud and yours too if you will not execute Vengeance upon Delinquents At the 16 pag. he tells them That God would have Judges to shew no mercy when the Quarrel is against Religion and the Government of Jesus Christ Those men that would rise up in cursed practices to bring in Idolatry and false Worship to depose Christ from his Throne and set up Antichrist in his place c. such a Generation hath Christ doomed to execution Luk. 19.27 Those mine Enemies that would not have me to reign over them bring hither and slay them before me And at 18 pag. What severity will God expect from you in these cases who are call'd this day to judge for God between the sons of Belial bloudy Rebels and an whole Christian hurch and State now resisting unto Bloud for Reformation Let me say to you as God to Moses concerning the Midianites Vex these Midianites and smite them for they vex you with their wiles Numb 25.17 and 18. Behold how the Godly sanctified their cruelty with pieces of Scriptures and thereby prest it as a most indispensable duty Mr. Joseph Boden also in his forecited Sermon pag. 16. and 18. exhorts the Committee to do the utmost as they could against the Malignants God arms them saith he with strength against his people because heretofore and now also they have and do find too much favour at our hands I am confident the next time the Devil gets into the Pulpit he 'll preach as good Divinity upon this subject as this man and many of his Brethren did It was so essential a part of your Godliness and such an acceptable piece of service to Christ to shew no mercy to the Malignants that it was the praise of a dead Saint S. Midhope p. 22. Colonel Gould That he
of your being Gods Church and people and I shall say more to it anon I only add now that as it is observ'd that where Religion hath been loosest there Fortune hath been most worshipped so when you had broken all natural and religious bonds you made use of the prosperous events of your enterprizes to justifie the lawfulness of them Pr. Well I see you 'll make hard shift but you 'll have something to say But can you find that we attribute to the Sacraments the vertue of working by their own efficacy the grace they signifie which you call opus operatum don 't we rather teach that nothing but Gods Grace can work any good in us and that outward means are useless without it Pa. Yes I do suppose the Sacraments are of no great account amongst you whatever is not of your own appointment is of little use or profitableness though ordained by the first Rulers of the Christian Church or by Christ himself But I could tell you of two or three things of your own devising of as great force and efficacy as any of our Sacraments that is your Covenant your powerful Preaching and your extemporary Prayers of the first I have spoken enough already how you made it a most precious and soul-saving Ordinance and equalled it at least to the Covenants God hath been pleased to make with Mankind wherefore it was to be taken standing uncovered and one hand bare and lifted up which is more of honour and reverence than you afford to the blessed Sacrament of the Body and Bloud of Christ which you receive fitting upon your tails or to any other part of Divine Worship If any one will see more of it let him read Thomas Mokett's Sermons on that subject printed 1642. That your Preaching is likewise very powerful I have evinc'd before in that you call it the Gospel the Word of God and make it in a manner equal to Scripture as proceeding from the same Spirit as Mr. Marshal told the Parliament at a Thanksgiving-Sermon for some good success of yours S. Marshal 1643. p. 3. I should send you home presently and command all of you not to weep to day but to eat the fat and drink the sweet but that I have first some banquetting stuff for your souls such as God hath brought to my hand sure they might make a very soul-refreshing meal on what God himself had prepared Mr. Palmer also pag. 27. How few come prepared to the Ordinances your preaching and Praying Who is it that considers the weightiness of the business he is about that he is now about a soul-saving or a soul-destroying work And accordingly in your Catechising your Converts if they be aged the grand question is When and at what time they were converted for your Preaching works Conversion even as Strong-drink works Madness When you have taught malicious or ignorant people to rail at the Church and to hate it and those that side with it then the powerful Ordinance of Preaching hath done the feat and the man is converted even as the weak-brain fellow that hath lost his reason by too much drinking As for your Praying being it is by the Spirit no wonder if it works strangely Mr. Vavasor Powel a holy man The History of his Life 1671. p. 16. and well worth to be credited though somewhat more Fanatick than you for having a most authentick Testimony and Approbation of fourteen of the chiefest Divines in the Assembly did by his Prayers cure one Mrs. p 18. Watkins of the Parish of Laningg in the County of Brecknock who for two years together had kept her bed and one Elizabeth Morris of New Radnorth who was troubled with the Falling-sickness and Convulsion-Fits and did once in a wet Harvest stop a most fierce rain p. 19. in seeking the Lord and begging for fair weather This will not seem strange if we consider what one of you said That God had kindled the fervent fire of Supplication in your hearts Jehovah-Jireh p. 31. Oh how did the Lord-before and ever since this Parliament began stir up and inflame the fire of supplicating faith or faithful supplication and fervent zeal in private humiliation to seek the Lord in the face of Christ for mercy and reconcilement to our poor Land And then how could that fire that came from the Lord do less than consume and devour every thing that stood in its way As Dr. Owen said to the House of Commons Joh. Owen 1659. p. 14. The Adversaries openly confest That there was nothing left for them to overcome or to overcome them but the Prayers of the Fanatick Crew And as Mr. Coleman said to the same Auditory We prayed at Nazeby 1645. p. â—â— 17 they plotted see what end the Lord hath made come and behold the works of the Lord. And at Langport and Bridgewater they could not stand for God was against them We prayed we fought Th. Good 1â—â—â— p. â—â— we conquered certainly the power of Prayers is destructive And Mr. Goodwin God hath given to those his Saints the Rebels a Commission to set up and pull down by their Prayers and Intercessions Whence by the way might be gathered that you have some kindness for us being you pull'd none down but the Church of England But possibly the efficacy of your Prayers did not so much as the reach of your Piques and Muskets However you see here is opus operatum with a vengeance all the difference is that our Sacraments are of Christs Institution and work Grace only whereas your powerful Ordinances are of your own devising and besides Grace can work destruction Pr. And can you find this one thing more about the Sacraments that we take the Cup away from the people as is the order of your Church positively against an express Command of Christ who said Drink ye all of this Sure you won't say we are guilty of dispensing with such an express Injunction of Christ as you do in this case Pa. No you never took the blessed Cup from the people but you went very near to take away from them the sacred Bread and all You know how seldom and in how few places that holy Sacrament was administred in your reforming times and you know how little regarded still by many of your party since you could preach and pray by the Spirit And yet we are in good hopes that you 'll comply with us in this too for that in another case you can dispense with as absolute a command of Christ that is concerning the Lords Prayer of which he commanded When you pray say Our Father c. Luk. 11.2 But your wisdom hath found it out that 't was enough to say the sense of that Prayer without repeating the very words and then if you should use it the people might be brought to believe that a set Form of Prayers is lawful according to so great an example which might be a great prejudice to your
much happiness with many secret and glorious things after all their trouble so saith the same Author ibid. pag. 6. We shall see at last that the mercy God intended for us was worth all the troubles and bloud c. God hath many Promises to his Church to accomplish many Prophecies to fulfil many glorious things to declare many Mercies for his Saints to bestow and these stirs among us will make way for all And so Mr. Joh. Bond 1644. Bond tells the Parliament That the present work of Salvation and Reformation they had in hand was carried on in a mystery was a shadowed master-piece altogether made up of stratagems paradoxes and wonders and so the comfort is it shall be a great Salvation a Salvation from Babylon But this will suffice at present to shew that the people was deluded more ways than one and to give a warning to the following Generation that so they never be drawn into Rebellion by the same arts and pretences as their Fathers were It would be endless to rehearse all the equivocations jugglings and deceits as were used to seduce the people next time we meet perchance you shall hear more of them What I have said now is enough to prove that your words signifie nothing but what you please that your dissimulations are deep and specious and that you never want arts and evasions to plead innocency and salve your credit after the foulest doings and miscarriages Now you differ but a very little from the Church of England and you are for Obedience to the King whatever some of you may have said or done heretofore Very good That 's as much as to say That do you what you will you are resolved ever to be in the right and never to acknowledge your selves faulty in the least for fear of losing the repute of Infallibility But let it be considered 1. That I have proved what I charged upon you not by the words of the obscure and ordinary but of the most famous men of your Party who must needs have known the Tenets and Doctrines of your Sect and who were then and are still now cryed up and followed by your Disciples and Admirers 2. That those words of theirs I have cited were not taken out of Libels or prophane Books nor were spoken heedlesly in the heat of dispute but are to be found in their Sermons and were delivered out of their Pulpits in the powerfulness of Preaching as being the Word of God 3. That those Sermons were not preached in Country-Towns or to ordinary Congregations where any stuff preached after the tone and manner in use among you had been as good as the best but almost all of them before the Parliament where none but great men were admitted to preach and where to be sure they preached none but their best Sermons and moreover that those Sermons were printed with the names of the Authors and with License and Approbation 4. That 't is more likely they would then deliver their true Opinions and speak out what was in their hearts when they had the power in their hands and were free to speak what they pleased than now they are under fear and restraint and are fain to conceal or dissemble what they would then openly preach and proclaim 5. That they not only preached Sermons but they and their Disciples lived Sermons also your practice and Doctrine agreed excellently well what was preach'd was acted there was none of their good Instructions lost you approved what they said by doing accordingly and you generally own'd by a practical belief those Doctrines I have set down as yours out of your most approved Authors Lastly It is manifest by my Quotations that your Ministers rendred the last King odious to his people and preacht him out of his Throne and Kingdom but 't is no where to be seen that they ever preach'd this King into the favour of his people again or used their powerful eloquence to have him restor'd to his Right And since his return though you have given over printing yet most of you have kept up the Faction and in stead of crying peccavi have still endeavour'd to weaken the Church and draw Disciples after you and your Synods have never disclaimed those men who by their Preaching had kindled up the late Rebellion and the Preachers have never recanted their former Opinions but either justified or disguised them nay many of them own still the Obligation of that infamous Oath call'd the Covenant whereby they acted and warranted all their wickedness Therefore though the people may be excused having been deluded and imposed upon yet you the Ministers and Heads of the Faction can never with all the wit you have plead any thing that can justifie you from owning the worst of Popish Errours Now let our Judge speak if he pleaseth G. I confess I am somewhat amazed at what I have heard I never thought so much could be said for proving a Conformity betwixt Papists and Presbyterians in so many points but yet I will decide nothing nor make any reflections upon what you have said I 'll rather transcribe and print your discourse and leave the Reader to think and to judge as his own discretion shall advise him Only seeing that you are most chiefly agreed in denying the King that Supreme Authority which God hath given him and pretending a certain Power and Jurisdiction over him in ordine ad spiritualia for the good of souls or to phrase it aright for to advance Gods Cause and to set up Christ I shall set down some Texts of Scripture which plainly evince the contrary and then desire all Christians to yield a chearful and loyal Obedience until they have been told from Heaven that the Pope or Classis are impowered from God to act contrary to his Word in this particular First For the Authority of the Supreme Magistrate over all that live in his Dominions read Rom. 13.1 and 2. Let every soul be subject to the higher powers for there is no power but of God the powers that be are ordained of God whosoever therefore resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation v. 5. Wherefore ye must be subject not only for wrath but also for conscience sake Here you see that neither Pope nor Puritan is excepted but every soul is to be subject this was written when the Higher Powers were Heathen bloudy Persecutors of Christianity who endeavoured to destroy the Gospel and yet for all that they must not be rebelled against and their Authority must not be resisted Whosoever resisteth the power resisteth the Ordinance of God and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation and therefore we must be subject to them not only for fear of their anger but also for fear of Gods not only for wrath but also for conscience sake In Tit. 3.1 Put them in mind saith the Apostle to be subject to principalities and powers to obey