in the Catholic Doctrin of the Church of England pag. 103. which is but an exposition of the 39. Articles Our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstands it Authority is given to the Church and to each person of sound judgment in it to judge in Controversies of faith and this is not the privat judgment of our Church but also of our Brethren of forreign Countries Ismael J confess not only these but many other Drs abet your discourse and the General Vogue of our Reformation is for Scripture as each one vnderstands it but alas you see well that wee can never settle any Religion or Church by such a Rule of faith Isaac You can never settle any but rhis That every man may without leâ— or hinderance believe what he please and why should not this be a good Religion if Scripture as each one vnderstands it be not our Rule of faith if we must be constrained to believe Scripture not as wee vnderstand it but as it is vnderstood by this or that Congregation whâ— difference betwixt vs and Papists They must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Councilâ— have ever so much light from God be ever so wise and witty you muâ— depose your own judgment aâ— submit to that of the Pope Counciâ— and Popish Church to this pass â— are come also wee must believe tâ— kings supremacie Episcopacy Fâ—gurative presence tho perhaps we dâ— not judge by Scripture it be trâ— Doctrin wee are constrained by Penal laws and Acts of Parliament tâ— believe them as Papists by the Inquisition and why because thâ— Church of England vnderstands bâ— Scripture its true and if you replâ— you do not interpret Scripture sâ— you 'l not be heard you must submiâ— and believe against your judgment and what 's this but plain Popish Tyrany ouer mens consciences Did Luther and Calvin forsake the Pope and Councils for to submit their judgments to any other No but to follow Scripture as each one of them vnderstood it and tho Luther was a man raysed by God and replenisht with his spirit to repair the ruins of the Church yet Calvin did no more submit to him than Luther did to the Pope nor did Zuinglius submit to Calvin but followed his own sense of Scripture nor did Oecolampadius submit to Zuinglius but every one searched the Scripture believed and taught what they thought to be true and thus we became a Reformation of Popery if therefore we will continue a Reformation and walk by the spirit of our first blessed Reformers wee must not be constrained to believe any mans sense of Scripture we must believe whateuer we think to be true and have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each one vnderstands it Ismael And what then what do you inferr from this discourse Isaac This consequence that wheras no true Child of the Reformation be he of what Congregation you will can justly deny our Rule of faith to be Scripture as any Person of sound judgment interprets it it follows vnauoidably that the Doctrin of the Reformation is Whatever any Person of sound judgment interprets to be the true sense of Scripture and whatever Luther Calvin Beza or any other of sound judgment in the Reformation since its first ryse vntill this day taught to be the true sense of Scripture is to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation tho to others of this or that Congregation it may seem to be wicked and scandalous Doctrin And now let me answer to an objection you made against this Principle in our entrance to this discourse you objected that many Papish Drs and Casuists delivered scandalous and base Doctrins which the Papists will not admit to be the Doctrin of their Church tho deliverd by Papish Drs and thence you pretended that the particular sentiments of privat Drs of the Reformation are not to be called the Doctrin of our Church But be pleased to observe the difference betwixt Popery and our Reformation the Rule of faith in Popery is Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Council or their Church they will admit no other consequently no Doctrin is to be called Popery but what is judged by the Pope and his Church or Council to be the sense of Scripture and if any Dr or Universitie holds any sense contrary to theirs it is to be called the Doctrin of that particular person and not the Doctrin of the Popish Church because their Rule of faith is not Scripture as interpreted by any Person of sound judgment but as interpreted by their Pope and Council But wheras our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment interprets it whatever Doctrin or sense is said by any man to be of Scripture is justly to be called the Doctrin of the Reformation for example Melancton a man of sound judgment great learning and of an vpright conscience taught Bigamy to be the Doctrin of scripture Beza taught the Lords supper might be administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine Calvin taught that Christ despaired on the Cross and suffered the pains of hell after his death why then let all the Bishops and Universities of England condemn this Doctrin let all the Synods of France and Germany decry it the Doctrin will be still of the Reformation because its Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment Ismael The heate of your discourse has tyred you and my memorie iâ— sufficiently loaden with what yoâ— have said let me digest it in my privat retirement and wee will meeâ— again Isaac Content carrie with yoâ— these three points which I have proved convincingly first our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by this or that but by anâ— man of sound judgment secondly iâ— follows hence that the Doctrin of thâ— Reformation must be and ought to be called whatever any man of sound judgment saies is the sense of scripture thirdly it follows wee may change Religions as often as wee please III. DIALOGUE ISMAEL I remember well the summary of your last discourse given me in three points and I find the second to be absurd and repugnant to reason you 'l neuer perswade it tho you have pleaded for it with great energy what if a silly Woman Cobler or other tradesman reade Scripture and giue their sense of it that forsooth must be called the Doctrin of the Reformation and it shall be lawfull for them to believe it against the Doctrin of the whole Church Isaac Do not limit Gods infinit goodness by measuring his mercies towards his Creatures with your narrow apprehensions take notice he saies he has chosen the weake and contemptible of the world for to confound the strong ones I confess vnto you Father that you have hid thesâ— things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them to the little ones And therefore he choosed poore simple
PAX VOBIS OR GHOSPELL AND LIBERTIE AGAINST ANCIENT AND MODERN PAPISTS BY E.G. PREACHER OF THE WORD DEDICATED TO THE RIGHT HON BLE THE LORD HALYFAX Stand fast in the Libertie wherewith Christ hath made vs free and be not entangl'd again with the yoke of bondage Popery Gal. c. 5. v. 1. Anno 1679. THE PREFACE TO THE CHILDREN OF THE REFORMATION BE not concern'd to know whose hand it is which holds the link but follow the light it gives reach your hand to receive this Treatise which marks the shore where the Ark of our Reformation shatter'd by a deluge of troubles may rest which is a Holy liberty to all and each Person to believe or not believe act or not act as he pleases with a safe conscience acording the Principles of our Reformation We generally lament the convulsions which shake our Church and State through the diversity of opinions professed by our several Congregations som remedies have bin applied to bring vs to Peace and conformity but all have proved ineffectual som of our Drs judge nothing can cure our disease but a General Council or supream Authority to whose sentence we should all submit but this besides that it is Popish to grant any human Power for to oblige our consciences against our jugdments in matters of Religion is but an imaginary remedy for a real Evil for it 's not in the Reformation as in Popery in this there is a supream Authority for to convene the Pastors of diverse Kingdoms to a general Council in our Reformation there is none Popery believes its Councils and Popes infallible and therefore they cannot but acquiesce because an infallible sentence leaves no doubt of the Truth but in the Reformation all Councils and human Authority are fallible and consequently their Decisions may be doubted of and we are never certain of the Truth Others judge the remedy of our disease can be no other but Pills of persecution penal laws Acts of Parliament Ordinances of Synods forcing men to conformity but this has proved not only destructive to the peace of the Church but has shockt the very foundation of our Reformation for if we must believe under severe penalties what the State and Ecclesiastical Authority will have vs believe then scripture must be no more our Rule of faith but the state and Church which tells me what I must believe and we must be deprived of the right and power of interpreting Scripture and believing it in the sense we think it to be the true and yet our whole Reformation is cemented and was first raised vpon this Holy Libertie That every one should reade Scripture interpret it and believe whatever he thought was the true sense of it without any compulsion or constraint for to believe either Church State Universitie or Dr. if wee did not judge by Scripture his Doctrin was true If Prudence had as great a share in our Conduct as Passion wee should regulat our future by the effects of our past actions and if wee will cast an eye back to the transactions of later years we will find this compulsion of Mens Consciences has produced but confusion in our Church and fatal disturbances in our State contrarywise never did our Reformation enjoy more peace shin'd with more lustre and held its course with more happiness than when none was molested for his Profession but euery one had libertie to believe and teach what Doctrin and sense each one thought to be the most conformable to Scripture Confider the infancy of the Reformation when God raised Luther to repair the ruins of the Church how of a suddain it spred it self in Germany France Holland Poland Scotland and England and by what means was it not by takeing away all constraint of mens Consciences vsed then only in the Popish Church our blessed Reformers takeing to themselves and giving to others a Holy libertie for to teach and believe what ever they judged to be the Doctrin and true Sense of Scripture tho it should be against the received opinion of the Councils Church Universities and Drs. look into the Reign of Edward the VI. then did our Reformation florish in England and was miraculously propagated by the Liberty of Martin Bucer Cranmer Ochinus Peter Martyr and others in teaching Calvinism Lutheranism Zuinglianism by Scripture as every one vnderstood it Descend to the reing of Queen Marie then the light of the Ghospel was eclypsed because the flock was again popishly compelled to believe not what they judged by Scripture to be true but what the Pope and Church judged was such Com down a step lower to Queen Elizabeths time then the flock recouering that holy liberty for to believe what each one thought was the Doctrin of Scripture the Reformation gained ground our several Congregations lived peaceably for tho Protestancy was establisht the Religion of the Land others were not oppressed nor their liberty constrained by compulsions step down a degree lower to king James his time the Reformation held its course as prosperoussy as in Queen Elizabeths time because mens consciences were not oppressed all Reformed Brethren had full libertie to believe as they pleased tho Protestancy was the Religion of the King look down a step lower to king Charles the first 's reign his Matie carried with a godly zeale of restraining the diversity of opinions begot by the liberty enjoyed in his Predecessors times would by new Laws and Ordinances force the flock to an Uniformity of Doctrin but our zealous Brethren the Presbyterians impatient of any constraint in affairs of Religion and pleading for the Evangelical Libetty of our Reformation for to believe nothing nor vse any Rites or Ceremonies but as each one judged by Scripture to be convenient they covenanted against his Majestie and Bishops and the storm grew to that height that both Church and state were drown'd almost in the blood of our Reformed Brethren lastly looke vpon our Realm as it is at present the symptom◠of disatisfactions which you may read and hear in the Coffie houses in public and privat conversations the sparkle◠of jealousies which appear in our land the Cabals against our gouernment the animositie of deuided parties the murmur and complaints of all what 's all this but the smoke of that hidden fire of zeale wherwith Protestants would force Presbytherians by penal Laws to profess their Tenets Presbyterians exclaim against Protestancy as against Popery Quakers judge both to be limbs o◠Satan Anabaptists look on all three as Children of Perdition and no Congregation would give libertie for to profess any Tenets but its owne in so much that if you consider all well each of our Cōgregations are as severe Tyrants ouer our judgments and consciences as Popery was and our Reformation comes to be in effect but an exchange of one Italian Pope for many English ones for as in Popery we must submit our judgments to the Pope and Church of Rome or be esteemed putrid rotten members and be shut
meete in any of them the works of Lurher Calvin Beza or any of our own authors if you do not meet som Comedies or Romances if you reade our Modern Writers you shall find their bookes to be stuft with arguments stolen from Stapleton Peron Bellarmin and other Popish Drs. wheras they ought to take their Doctrin from Luther Calvin and our other first Reformers Apostles raised by Gods heavenly Spirit Oracles by whose mouths and pens he delivered the pure and Orthodox Doctrin of the Ghospel heavenly Fontains from which wee ought to drink the Doctrin of the Reformation therefore J have made a particular study for the comfort of my Reader not to profane this Treatise with any quotation of any Popish Writer none but our own Drs. Secondly my Reader will be pleased with this Treatise because J do not oblige him to believe the contents of it if he mislikes any Doctrin couched in this booke let him not believe it if he likes it let him believe it what J pretend is to maintain his libertie for to believe or not believe what he please and that none can say black in his eye for believing whatever he judges to be the sense of Scripture let all others think of it what they will for our Rule of faith as J will prove being Scripture as each Person vnderstands it who can be so bold as to check you for teaching and believing what you vnderstand scripture to say som Doctrins there are in this booke delivered by Luther Calvin Zuinglius Beza and others which our Church of England and som others do call blasphemies and scandalous Tenets and their irreverence and arrogance is run so farr as to condemn those blessed men for teaching such Tenets and say that they swerved from the truth and had their fraileties in so much that many of vs are ashamed to own those great men to have been our Reformers and leaders this is an impiety altogither insupportable it cannot be suffered with patience that such Apostolical men who were vndeniably our first Masters of the Reformation should be so vilified and abused therefore J do prove that ther 's no Doctrin delivered by them but is to be esteemed and called the Doctrin of the Reformation and can be according the Principles of the Reformed Church believed and taught by any Reformed Child for what is our Rule of faith in the Reformation but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vndestands it consequently what is the Doctrin of the Reformation but what any Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture whatever Doctrin therefore Luther Calvin or others judged to be of Scripture how can you deny it to be the Doctrin of the Reformation or blame them for teaching and believing it if you do not like it the most you can in justice do is not to believe it but you cannot justly say it s not the Doctrin of the Reformation because it 's Scripture as vnderstood by Persons of good judgment nor can you in justice blame them or any other for believing it if they like it for must not wee believe what wee judge in our conscience to be the Doctrin of Scripture Lastly my Reader will be pleased with the sincerity and plain dealing of this Treatise as much as wee are all offended by the dissimulation and double dealing of our Modern Writers whose aim and scope in the bookes they give out Seems to be nothing else but to say soâ—what whereby they may be thought tâ— be no Papists and nothing is less founâ— in their Writings than the pure and orthodox Doctrin of the Reformationâ— and what is to be bemoan'd that youâ— hardly see in the houses or hands of thâ— flock the works of Luther Calvin oâ— our other first Reformers they are hiâ— from vs to keep vs in ignorance of thâ— true Reformed Doctrin and wee see buâ— Bramhal Tillinson Taylor Stillingfleet Thorndik and such others whose Doctrin is neither Popery nor of the Reformation but a new compound of both they do so mangle the questions controverted with their scholastical subtilities and distinctions as if they werâ— ashamed to own openly our Tenets and did endeauor to get the opinion oâ— moderat sober men with the Papists by drawing as neer as their Interest caâ— permit them to their Doctrin Ask them if we be obliged to believe the Doctrin and sense of scripture delivered by a general Council our first Reformers resolved roundly that we are not nay Luther saies expresly we are bound to gainsay and work against the Decrees of any Council but our Modern Doctors answer with a pretty Distincction Ther 's a civil obligation quoth one but no obligation in conscience Ther 's an obligation in conscience saies an other provided you do not believe they are infallible you may believe they are infallible objectively or terminatively saies an other but not subjectively they are infallible in fundamental points saies an other but not in inferior Truths An other will come yet and say they are absoluty infallible in all Articles and thus by little and little the Papists gain ground against vs and the lustre of our Reformation is clouded by the cowardliness or insincerity or hiprocisy of our Modern teachers 1. Kings 18. How long halt ye between two opinions if the Lord be God follow him but if Baal then follow him Luther Calvin Beza and our other first Reformers were raised by God to teach vs the purity of the Ghospel let vs not be ashamed to follow their Doctrin to speake preach and believe as they did Therefore J do propose their Doctrin in this Treatise in its native coulours that if you like it you may believe it and if any be so bold as to Say you believe fals or scaâ—dalous Doctrin you must answer iâ— the Doctrin of the Reformation bâ—cause its Scripture as vnderstood bâ— Persons of judgment and the greate Oracles wee had and if you do noâ— like it you may deny it but bewaâ— never to blame or check any other foâ— believing it this is the Holy libertie oâ— the Ghospel and of our Primitive Râ—formation FIRST DIALOGUE ISMAEL I have read your Preface and Principles me thinks you drive to establish a new Religion for that vnlimited libertie which you assert for to belieue or not belieue whatever we please with a safe Conscience is not allowed by any of our Reformed CongregatioÌ„s and it were to be wisht you should rather stick to som one of the Congregations now establisht than to erect a new one for we have but too many already Isaac The Lord forbid I should think or speake otherwise then as becometh a true child of the Reformation If you will oblige me to belieue Scripture as interpreted by the Lutheran Church the like I say of any other Congregation and deny the Tenets of all others what difference betwixt me and a Papist in the electiâ— of my Religion for the Papist's Râ—ligion must be no other but Scriptâ— as
interpreted by the Pope and CoÌ„ciâ— my Religion must be Scripture as intâ—preted by the Lutheran Church aâ— no other my judgment and Conscieâ— therefore is as much constrained as tâ— of the Papist and our separation frâ— Popery will com to be but an exchanâ— of one slavery for another in thâ— our judgments and Consciences wâ— slaves to the Pope and Councils â— this we are slaves to the Lutheâ— Church We became a Reformatâ— by shaking of the yoke of Popâ— from our judgments and leaving thâ— free for to belieue Scripture as wâ— the assistance of Gods spirit each oâ— best vnderstands it and if we â— continue a Reformation we must â— submit again our judgments to aâ— other but retain that blessed liberâ— we recouered for to belieue the Teâ— of any Congregation I confess this â—bertie is not allowed by any one pâ—ticular Congregation as you obserâ— but you must also grant me that â— allowed taken by the whole bodâ— of the Reformation for in this whoâ— body as it comprehends Protestants Lutherans Presbyterians c. one CoÌ„gregation believes what the other denies and in any of them a man may live with a safe Conscience which you will not denie therefore any man has full libertie for to believe or deny with a safe Conscience the Tenets of any Congregation hence it follows and to my grief I speake it that no particular Congregation be it of England France or Germanie has the true spirit of the Reformation in doting so much vpon their particular Tenets as to thinke they cannot be as well denied as believed and in looking vpon them with so passionat eys as to censure check and force others to believe them you shall see by this discourse that the true spirit of the Reformation is not in any one particular Congregation separatly taken from the rest for each particular Congregation constrains as much as it can all people to believe its own Tenets Protestancy would have vs all to be Protestants and would root Lutherans out of the world as well as Popery Lutherans would if they could draw all to their own Nett Presbytery esteems itself to be the best of all would crush Protestancy if it could This then iâ— the spirit of each particular Congregation a Limiting confining spirit to som particular Tenets with an exclusion of all others but looke on the whole Body of our Reformation aâ— it includes all Reformed Congregations distinct from Popery there iâ— a holy extension of spirit and libertie for to be either Lutherans Presbyteriants Protestans and any thing but Popery and whatever any Congregation may say of an other but all vnanimously agree that the spirit of the Lord is in the whole body of the Reformation since therefore that in this whole Body there is a latitude libertie for to profess divers and oppositâ— Tenets and that each Tenet is believed by one and denied by others we must grant that this holy libertie for to believe or deny any Tenets we please is the true spirit of our holy reformation It 's not therefore to be wisht as you do that I should stick to any one particular Congregation or Tenets for such a restriction is meer Popery and your bemoaning the multiplicity of our Congregations is profane and Popish No it s a blessing of the Lord vpon our Reformation for which we shall never sufficiently thank him that we see it divided into so many Godly branches In the house of my father said Christ there are many mansions Joan. 14.2 Ismael By your discourse you seem to allow that we may with a safe conscience change Religions as often as we please and be to day a Protestant to morrow à Lutheran next day a Presbyterian and so run ouer all Isaac I know you will be startl'd at my answer for J am not ignorant that all men apprehend it to be absurd to change run ouer so many religions but truth must be declared though it may seem a scandal to the Iews and a folly to the Gentils It s therefore the Doctrin of the Reformation that we may with a safe conscience be to day Protestanrs to morrow Lutherans in France Hugonots in Hungarie Antitrinitarians in Poland Socinians ad in London of any Religion but Popery Ismael For shame you fouly imposâ— vpon the Reformation ther 's not anâ— Congregation that teachs such à scandalous and absurd Doctrin Isaac By your favor I loue thâ— Reformation as the apple of my eye and will never yield to any in my zealâ— for its honor and doctrin J am so faâ— from imposing upon it that I will evidence your error in denying this to bâ— its Doctrin and it will appear thaâ— whoever will deny it to be very lawful to change Religions as time and occasion requires must renounce the besâ— and fundamental Principles of our Reformation must impiously condemâ— the practise of our first Reformers Ismael How will you make it ouâ— that this Doctrin is grounded vpoâ— the fundamental Principles of our Reformation wheras there is not onâ— Congregation of ours but abhorrs it Isaac Sr. You may well perceive by the tenor of my discours that J am piously and charitably iealous with each particular Congregation thaâ— my drift is to shew that each of them none excepted swerves from and transgresses against the true spirit and solid Principles of the Reformation as wiâ—l further appear in this discours It s vâ—contestedly true that the Rule of faith of the Reformation is Scripture as the humble of heart assisted with the spirit of the Lord vnderstands it for Lutherans will never admit their Rule of faith to be Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England but as interpreted by themselves nor will England admit Scripture to be their Rule of faith as it is interpreted by the Presbyterians but as interpreted by the Church of England so that the Doctrin of each Congregation is but Scripture as interpreted by them and wheras all these Congregations joyntly compose the whole Body of the Reformation and each Congregation is truly a member of the Reformation the Doctrin of the Reformation coms to be Scripture as each Congregation and person of sound judgment in the Reformation saies the Church of England in her 39. Artic. interprets it This being an vncoÌ„trouled truth what man of euer so sound a judgment but may read to day Scripture as interpreted by the Lutheran Church and judge in his conscience that interpretation and Doctrin to be true consequently he may with a safe conscience profess that Religion soon after he may meet Calvins bookes charm'd with the admirable strength of his reasons and glosses vpon Scripture he may judge in his conscience he is to be preferr'd beforre Luther and so may lawfully forsake Lutheranism for Calvinism then again he hits vpon Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England whose Doctrin ravish's him with that decencie of Ceremonies that majesty of her lyturgie that harmonie of her Hieraâ—chie
any of our synods Did any teach that we may with a safe conscience change our Religion as you say Isaac Yes I can the Synod of Charenton in France held about the yeare 1634. expresly saies that for your salvation it s all alike whether you be a Calvinist Lutheran or of any other Congregation of the Reformed because says this Venerable synod they all agree in fundamental points and the Lutherans haue nothing of superstition or Idolatrie in their manner of divin worship Change then as often as you list be a Lutheran be a Presbyterian be an Anabaptist by the mouth of this synod you are assured you 'l never miss to hit right And I pray can any synod of our times haue more authoritie in point of Doctrin than Luther our first Reformer a man extraordinarily raised by God says the synod of Charenton and replenisht with his spirit for to repaire the ruins of his Church He teachs the elevation of the sacrament is Idolatrie yet he did practise iâ— and commanded it should be practised iâ— the Church of Wittemberg to spâ—te thâ— Deuil Carolstadius Giuing you tâ— vnderstand that for just reasons yoâ— may teach now one Religion noâ— an other Zuinglius also whose virtuâ— and Learning is knowen to the work says that God inspired him to preacâ— what Doctrin was suitable to the times which as it often changes you maâ— often change your Doctrin and consider you if it be not therefore thaâ— Christ our lord saies his yoke is sweâ—â— his burden light that is Religioâ— because we can withdraw our Neâ—â— from it as time and just reason requires Ismael Could you giue me any sâ—nod of the Church of England whicâ— deliuers this Doctrin you would gâ— neere hand to convince me for thâ— som particular Doctors should hauâ— taught or practis'd it does not provâ— it to be the Doctrin of the Reformation Isaac And what greater authoritiâ— has a synod of England for to provâ— a Doctrin to be of the Reformation than a synod of France which I have produced Or than Luther and Zuinglius our first Reformers inspired by God to teach vs the puritie of the Ghospel Was it not from Luther and Zuinglius that England receiued the Doctrin of the Reformation and if England be so bold as to say they erred in this what assurance can we haue but that they erred in the rest But since nothing will please you but a synod of England you shall haue not one but many Can there be any synod in England of so great authoritie as our wise and prudent Parliaments Read our Chronicles and you 'l find that in few years time they changed and established different Religions by publick acts of Parliament In Henry the 8. Reigne they voted for Popery and made Acts and Statuts against the Reformation In Edward the 6. time they banisht Popery and voted for Zuinglianism In Queen Mary's they pull'd down this and sett vp Popery again In Queen Elizabeths they decryed this and set vp not Zuinglianism but Protestancy in the midst of her reign they polisht this and added som new perfections to it In King James and succeeding kings times Protestancy is of a different stamp from that of Queen Elizabeths Heare Doue in his Exhort to the English Recusants an 1603. pag. 31. Henry the 8 had his Lyturgie which was very good Edward the 6. condemned it and brought in an other composed by Peter Martir and Bucer in Elizabeths time that was condemned and an otheâ— approued and in the middle of her reign her Lyturgy was also misliked and â— new one introduced we are so wantâ—â— that nothing will coÌ„tent vs but novelties Ismael Doue does not commenâ— this Doctrin for he calls that frequent exchange of Religion Wantonness and loue of noueltie Isaac It s no great matter what he says of it my drift is but to convince you that this is the Doctrin practise of the best Members of our Reformation euen of England and if you be convinc't its the Doctrin of the Reformation you cannot deny but that it is good Doctrin if Doue calls it wantonness S. Paul Ephes 4.22 Coloss 3.9 Rom. 6.6 commends it and exhorts vs to put of the old man with its deeds that 's Popery with its ceremonies and put on the new man that 's the Reformation where ther 's neither Greek nor Iew Circumcision nor Incircumcision Barbarian or Scythian bound or free but Christ is all and in all that 's to say where ther 's no distinction of Protestants or Presbyterians Socinians or Arians it s all one which Religion you profesâ— Ismael But is there no Tenet of Religion which we are all indispensably obliged to hold Isaac Yes there is and no more but one we are bound to have faith in Iesus Christ son of God and Saviour of the world This is the substance of Christian Religion be an Arian be a Presbyterian be a Socinian or what you please be also plung'd to your ears in wickedness of life and manners so you have faith in Jesus Christ son of God and Redeemer of the world and live in charitie you will be a member of the true Church and be saved Do not imagin this is any new Doctrin invented by me search the vulgar sort of our Reformed Brethren you shall get thousands of this opinion in our Realm search the Books of our Learned Drs you shall find it in them also Dr Morton in his much applauded booke dedicated to Queen Elizabeth for which he deserved a Bishoprick says The Arian Curch is to be esteemed a true Church because they hold the true substance of Christian ReligioÌ„ which is faith in Iesus Christ son of God and Redeemer of the world and again in the same place sect 4. whose Title is Heretics are members of the Church he says whosoeuer believes in Iesus Christ tho by wickedness of life or Heresy in Doctrin they should err in Doctrin they are still true Members of the Church Therefore our learnd Fox Doctor Fieldâ— and Illiricus say the Greek Church notwithstanding their error in denying the Procession of the H. Ghost from the son are holy members of the true Church because they have faith in Jesus Christ Ismael Sure you will not say this Doctrin is of the Reformation or can be safely believed Isaac I do admire how you can doubt of it and that it may be believed for what is the Doctrin of the Reformation but as we have said in our Principles Scripture as interpreted by any man of sound judgement in the Church and were not Doctor Morton Fox Field and Illiricus men of sound judgement eminent Learning and Godlines if-therefore this be Scripture as interpreted by them how can you deny it to be the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael And what Jesus Christ are we obliged to believe in for Jesus Christ as believed by the Arians Socinians Luther and Calvin is far different from Jesus Christ as
fishermen to be his Apostles â— know it 's the practise of Papists and from them your Church of England borrows it to despise the Ministeriâ— of Women tradesmen and illiteraâ— people in preaching teaching and interpreting Scripture but S. Paul tell vs The word of God is not bound that's to say is not entayl'd on thâ— learned rich or great ones the Wind bloweth where it listeth oâ— Bishops and Ministers would make â— Monopoly of the Word of God and have themselves to be the only Retailers of it for to have som plausible title for to enjoy great Rents and sheare the flock but wee have seen as well among the Quakers aâ— in other Congregations filly Women and Tradesmen replenisht with Gods Spirit preach and expound the great Misteries of our Religion with as much of good success and edification of the Auditory as any Penny-booke Man in England Ismael It seems you approue the Ministerie of Women and silly Tradesmen for preaching and teaching the flock and if so you 'l ouerthrow our Hierarchy of Bishops and Ministers Isaac It matters not much for you to know what I approve or condemn but to know what the Doctrin of the Reformation is It 's this that none can teach preach administer Sacraments or exercise Ecclesiastical functions if he be not in holy Orders Bishop Minister or Deacon for the Church of England teachs it and you may believe it if you please You may also deny it and say any Woman or tradesman has as much power for to preach and administer the Sacraments as the richest Bishop in England this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation as well as the former because Quakers Presbyterians Brownists Anabaptists c. believe and teach it and they are men of as sound judgments and as good Reformeds as Protestants nay the most learned of our Reformers teach and commend the power of Women for to exercise Spiritual functions and administer the Sacraments Saumaise Peter Martyr and Zuinglius expresly defend the Priesthood as well of Women as of Men and Luther proves it efficaciously The first office of a Priest saies he is to preach this is common to all euen women the second is to baptize which is also common to women the third is to consecrat the bread and wine and this also is common to all as well as to men and in the absence of a Priest a womaâ— may absolve from sins as well as the Pope because the words of Christ whateuâ—â— yee shall vntye on earth shall be vntyed in heauen were said to all Christians And when so eminent men haâ— not said it reason and Scripture convinces it Reason because that our Rule of faith being Scripture aâ— each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it many women vndoubtedly are of sound judgment and why should not their interpretation of Scripture pass for the Doctrin of the Reformation as well as that of our Bishops and Ministers Scripture because wee reade the Samaritan Woman was the first who preached the Messias to the Cittie of Samaâ—ia and Christ commanded Mary Magdalen to go to preach his Resurrection to his Disciples and wee know by our Cronicles that our glorious Queen Elizabeth of blessed memory did not only gouern the state but was a great Apostoless in Church affaires Ismael To what purpose then have wee Bishops and Ministers who enjoy so vast reuenews if any man or woman can preach and administer the Sacraments as well as they Isaac You may believe Bishops and Ministers are very needfull for the service of the Church for they being commonly learned witty men and having Wyves they come to instruct their wyves so well that the good women com in a short time to be as learned as their husbands and as nimble and quick in the Ecclesiastical Ministeries as they if they were permitted to exercise them as som Authors of credit relate vnto vs that a Gentleman of Constance writ to his friend in a Village about threâ— leagues distant from that Cittie whose inhabitants were for the mosâ— part of our Lutheran Reformation the good Pastor exhorted his flocâ— to prepare for Easter Communion and that none should presume tâ— come to the holy Table but shoulâ— first confess and receive absolutioâ— of his sins Easter holy dayes beinâ— come such a multitude flockt to confession that the Pastor could not satisfie the devotion of so great a croâ— he called his wife to help him fâ— to hear Confessions and give absolutions in wich Ministerie the gooâ— Lady did labour with great satisfaction of the Penitents but neithâ— the Pastor nor his virtuous Consoâ— being able to dispatch so great a multitude he called his Maide Servant who did work in the holy Minister with as much expedition as her Master But for all this the Church oâ— Scotland France and all England Protestants excepted will tell yoâ— that Bishops and Ministers are noâ— needfull nay that they are very prejudicious to the Reformation and State To the Reformation because this Hierarchy with the Bishops Court surplices Corner Caps and other trumperies puts the flock in mind of Popery wherof its a perfect resemblance and whylst the Papists see our change from them comes to be almost no more but to substitute new Priests and Bishops in their own place for to manage more conscienciously the Rents and reuenews which they profanely abused and that those Rents and revenews are still in the hands of an Ecclesiastical Hierarchie they live in hopes of recovering them som day when our Bishops and Ministers will come to be as bad â—tewards of them as they were and â—hat the flock will be weary of them â—nd call back the Ancient Possessors â—ts therefore perhaps the Emissaries â—f the Pope do incessantly blow in â—ur eares how ill our Ecclesiastical â—evenews are bestowed for to mainâ—ain wyves and Children Pomp and â—anitie of Bishops and Ministers no â—ess than in Popery To the State they seem to be prejudicious wheraâ— any but a Bishop or Minister would think it would be more advantagiouâ— to the Common-wealth that the king should have those Revenews for to maintain his fleet and armie and easâ— thereby the subjects of subsidies anâ— taxes than that a handfull of Bishop and Ministers should have them specially when others can preach anâ— teach as well as they for nothing bâ— the pleasure of being heaâ—d Ismael But do not you see it woulâ— be a Sacriledge that the king shoulâ— deprive the Clergy of their Churcâ— Revenews Isaac And do not you know thâ— almost all our Congregations do holâ— our Clergy to be no true Clergy bâ— as meer laymen as you or I the admit no Clergy or Episcopal Carâ—cter But Elders chosen by the Coâ—gregation and if they be no trâ— Clergy they have no right to thâ— Church Revenews and it s no sacrâ—ledge to deprive them of them Thâ— Popish Clergy in Henry the VII time had visibly a greater right â— them than ours now have sâ— neither the
of Illiricus Latimer and Lossius Also Lurher most impiously affirms that not only the human nature of Christ dyed for vs but also his Divin nature see Luther's words quoted at large by Zuinglius and Hospinian If you say such scandalous blasphemies may be safely believed you will render youâ— Christianitie suspected and if yoâ— say that they are the Doctrin of thâ— Reformation or that they may be believed according the Principles â— the Reformation you will make thâ— Reformation and its Principles tâ— be hated by any good Christian Isaac If I walk by the Rule oâ— faith of the Reformation I 'l prove my self a true Reformed Child and if I prove my self to be a Reformed Child my Christianity cannot be justly suspected What Tenet have you related of all those which you call blasphemies and scandals but has been judged by those Eminent Drs. of our Reformation to be express Scripture or conformable to Scripture and since our Rule of faith is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it and since the Doctrin of our Reformation is but whatever any such Person of sound judgment judges to be expressed in or proved by Scripture its evident that all those Tenets are vndeniably the Doctrin of the Reformation I say then and will say without any offence to my Christianity or blemish to our Reformed Church that those Tenets are the Doctrin of the Reformation and may be as safely believed by any Child of it as Figurative Presence supremacy or Two Sacraments and let not any Bigot pretend to freghten me from this Doctrin by calling it blasphemy and impiety No its Scripture as interpreted by our renowned Reformed Doctors therefore it s no blasphemy let any man convince me that our Rule of faith must not be Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and he will convince that this cannot be justly called the Doctrin of the Reformation but whylst that Principle and Rule of faith stands vnshaken nothing that is taught by any Person of sound judgment to be the Doctrin of Scripture but is to be called our Doctrin and may be safely believed You say that whoeuer has any loue for Christianity will hate the Reformation and its Principles if they give libertie for to believe such blasphemies but can any mother be more indulgent to her Child than the Reformation is to vs such as think those Tenets to be blasphemies the Reformation gives them leave not to believe them and if any judges by Scripture that they are not blasphemies but pure Doctrin as Luther Calvin and others did they have liberty for to believe them He who denyes them cannot in charity check them who believe them nor can they who believe them check those who deny them wheras each follow our Rule of faith and believe what they judge by Scripture to be true And if you or your Church of England cry out Blasphemy Blasphemy against all that you judge to be fals why do not you cry blasphemie against Presbyterians Lutherans and other Congregations from whom you dissent and what difference betwixt you and the Church of Rome the folly of this is to call Heresy and blasphemy all that is not her own Doctrin and all that your Church of England mystikes must be fanaticism blasphemy and impiety must our Rule of faith be Scripture as the Church of England vnderstands it and not otherwise Presbyterians and Lutherans will neuer allow it if therefore our Rule of faith be Scripture as each Person vnderstands it any Person of sound judgment in the Reformation may without scrupule believe what he vnderstands to be the Doctrine of Scripture IV. DIALOGUE ISMAEL You still insist vpon that Principle that our Rule of faith is Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and from that Principle will follow many absurd consequences destructive of piety and Religion Isaac That Principle is not invented by me it s of our holy Reformation if J did discourse with a Papist J would prove the Principle to be true and Gods express Word but since J discourse with a Reformed Child J suppose and not spend my time in proving it this Principle then being an vnquestionable truth in our Reformation no Reformed Child must be so irreverent and bold as to say that any Doctrin which cleerly and vnauoidably follows out of it is blasphemous or impious for that would be to condemn our Principle by which we walk Ex vero non sequitur nisi verum from a true Principle nothing can follow but true Doctrin can you deny but this was the Rule of faith and Principle of our first blessed Reformers and of the Church of England mentioned in her 39. Articles if therefore they judged and if any other judges by that Rule and Principle that those Tenets which you call impious and blasphemous be true Doctrin they cannot be blamed for believing them Ismael I confess our first Reformers did speake so but J say such Errors and impious Doctrins cannot without irreverence be called the Doctrin of the Reformation and cannot without impiety be belieued because our Reformation at present condemns and detests those blasphemies for we must grant that our Reformation in its beginning was not in its full perfection of Doctrin God began it by Luther Caluin Zuinglius and others those great men ha their fraylties they did ouerlash in som things and what they said amiss Gods heavenly spirit inspired to the Church from time to time to correct it and has at length brought our Church to that purity of Doctrin and fullness of perfection which now it enjoyes Nothing is to be called now the Doctrin of the Reformation but what is now believed by our Congregations and none of them believes those execrable Tenets you related Isaac you wrong the Reformation very much in saying it had not its full perfection in the beginning it s rather to be thought that that polishing and refining of it in ensuing years with new perfections and correcting the first draught of it by our first Reformers has been a corruption of it with som mixture oâ— Popish errors and superstitions for all religious Congregations and Pretenders to piety are at the first beginning in the height of their perfection and in progress of years they decline and decay from their primitive Spirit into errors and corruption of manners Religious Congregations are not like Arts and Sciences wihich by tyme and experience receive new perfefections but like chimnies which grow dayly blacker by continual smoke and fire witness the Jewish Church and law in its beginning florishing and holy but corrupted in progress of time by Traditions of men and superstitions of Pharisees witness also the law of the Ghospell in those happy tymes of the Apostles holy and pure but corrupted after som years by errors of Popery Jf wee be to seek for the pure and Orthodox Doctrin of the primitive Church ought not we to be said by the
Apostles men raised extraordinaryly by God and replenisht with his Spirit to teach vs the Ghospell and if wee be to seek for the pure and Orthodox Doctrin of the Reformation ought not wee to be said rather by Luther Calvin Melancton Zuinglius Beza and our other first Reformers than by a few Ministers and Bishops of England who tho they be wise and pious men yet they are not of that stamp as the others And if our present Congregations presume to correct them and say they ouerlasht in their Doctrin will not the Papists say if they have been such scandalous Masters and fals teachers why did you receive their Reformation and as they erred so grosly in such prime articles of Christianity why do not you feare and suspect they have also erred in the rest secondly the Papists will say if as they reformed vs you reform them then you must expect and permit that others may reform you and forsake your Doctrin as you forsake theirs Ismael I wish you could make out that the Reformation was in its full perfection in its beginning had you read som Writers of ours perhaps you would judge otherwise Musculus a learned Lutheran writes thus Thus it is with vs at present that if any be desirous to see a great rabble of knaues turbulent Spirits deceitfull persons Coseners and debauch men let him go to a Ciâ—ty where the Ghospel is purely preached and he shall find them by multitudes for its more manifest than the day light that never were there more vnbridled and vnruly people among the turks and other infidels than the Professors of the Reformed Ghospel Luther himself saies as much The world grows dayly worse and men are now more covetous revengefull and lycentious than they were in Popery Mr. Stubs sayes no less After my travells round about all England I found the people in most parts proud malicious ambitious and careless of good works Mr Richard Geferie in his Sermon at St. Pauls Cross printed in 1604. I may freely speake what I have plainly seen that in Flanders â—ever was there more drunkness in Italy more wantonnesâ— in lury more hypocrisy in Turkie more impiety in Tartary more iniquity than is practis'd generally in England and particularly in London Certainly our Reformation at present deserues a better caracter never did the Alehouses and Taverns complain more heauily of want of trading which is a proof of our Sobriety the Churches which we see a building in London is a good testimony of piety and we are so farr from any smack of hypocrisy that you shall not see in all London the least appearance of Virtue so hiddenly its kept from mortal Eyes but what you may meet in our honests Quakers Isaac I confess our Congregations as now they are are very good both in Doctrin and manners but I say also that the Doctrin and manners of our Reformation at its first beginning was as pure as holy and as true as now it is or ever it will be Nay supposing and granted their manners and Doctrin were so corrupt as those Drs. mention I say that amidst all those vices their life was as holy innocent blamless and pure as yours is now and that you may be convinc't of this truth know that Calvin expressy teachs Wee belieue the sins of the faithfull he means of the Reformation are but venial sins not but that they deserve death but because there is no damnation for the Children of Grace in as much as their sins are not imputed to them And again he saies Wee can assure ourselves wee can no more be damn'd for any sins than Iesus-Christ himself Luther is of the same opinion As nothing but faith doth justifiy vs so nothing but incredulity is a sin Again No sin is so great that it can condemn a man such as are damn'd are damn'd only for their incredulitie Whitaker No sin can hurt a man who has faith The same is taught by Wotten Fulk Tindal and Beza It s therefore the Doctrin of Scripture as interpreted by these Persons of great and sound judgment that incests murthers intemperance or whateuer else you call a sin incredulitie excepted either is no sin at all or but venial sins which do no harm nor cannot damn the children of the Reformation if therefore our Brethren lived in the beginning of the Reformation as those authors relate they liued according Scripture as interpreted to them by men of sound judgment and this being our Rule of faith and manners they did not ill but very well in following it Ismael They were men of the Reformation its true who taught these errors and dissolution of life and good manners in so much they swerued from the spirit holyness and purity of the Reformation and must not be believed nor commended looke vpon the Reformation as now it is and you will not find any such scandalous Doctrin or corruption of manners Isaac They were not only men of the Reformation but the greatest Oracles of it which you will not match with any of our present congregations and it s not pardonable in any Reformed Child to say such Oracles extrordinarily raised by God to teach the purity of the Ghospel should have taught either Errors in Doctrin or dissolution of manners they taught what in their conscience they vnderstood by Scripture to be true if you will not be so irreverent as to say that they were knaves Who spoke and taught against their conscience and knoâ—ledge Therefore they taught the Doctrin of the Reformation purely and truly the consequence is euidentâ— for what is the Doctrin of the Reformation but what wise learned men of sound judgment think and vnderstand by Scripture to be true why is figuratiue Presence the Doctrin of the Reformation tho denied by Lutherans who are Reformed also but because wise learned men judge by Scripture as they vnderstand it it s the true Doctrin or can you give me any other Rule of faith by which wee may know what Doctrin is of the Reformation and what not but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it or what Rule can you give for to know what is good or euil to be don but Scripture as vnderstood bâ— such Persons if therefore Luther Calvin and the other Drs. J quoted judge by Scripture that Doctrin and manner of life to be true and good why may not wee say its the Doctrin of the Reformation if you or the Church of England or Scotland judge that Doctrin to be false and that manner of life to be a dissolution and corruption of manners why you are men of sound judgment you vnderstand Scripture so that will be the Doctrin also of the Reformation you may believe it but you must not deny that Luther and Calvins Doctrin also is of the Reformation because they were men of as sound a judgmen as you You transgress haynously against modestie in saying those sacred Organs of God
swerued from the spirit and holyness of the Reformation which hauing no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it it 's Spirit and holyness consist in framing our life and Doctrin to that Rule as our blessed Reformers and Reformation in its beginning did believing those Tenets which you call Errors and blasphemy and liuing that life which you call Dissolution and corruption of Manners because they judge by Scripture as they vnderstood it that Doctrin and manner of life was true innocent and good and if you like it as they did you may believe and liue as they did and be a good Child of the Reformation consider I pray all the works and Doctrin of Luther the like I say of our other first Reformers the three parts of his Doctrin is against Popery and They say all are Heresies and blasphemies the rest is contrary to the Church of England and she saies this is also Errors and blasphamie so you conspire with the Papists to destroy the credit of our first and best Reformer and betwixt you both you vnplume him of all his Feathers and leaue him not a bit of good Doctrin But I will stand to the Spirit and Principles of the Reformation and Congregations as now they are since that you do so much boast of its purity and great Perfections and I will prove that Doctrin and manner of life may be believed and followed lawfully standing to its Principles for if the Spirit of the Reformation be at present among vs wee must not be forced as in Popery to believe against our proper judgments what others believe by Scripture to be ttue and holy but what each one thinks in his own conscience to be such because even now at present our Rule of faith is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it and this is the same Rule which Luther and the Reformation in its beginning had this holy libertie is the best iewel the greatest perfection and most glorious prerogative the Reformation has if therefore now at present any man judges by scripture that he can marry ten wyves at a time that he can kill his owne son as Abraham intended that he may commit incest with his own Daughter as Lot did that there is no sin but incredulity as Luther believed nor any Mysterie of the Trinitie of Persons in one nature as Calvin believed with what justice can the Church of England say a man does not believe and live as becometh a Reformed Child or that his Doctrin and life is scandalous wheras he lives and believes as he vnderstands by Scripture he may or ought to do which is the Rule of faith of the Reformation even of the Church of England the Church of England saies the Lutheran Doctrin of the real Presence is not the Doctrin of Scripture that the Presbyterian Doctrin against Episcopacy is not the Doctrin of Scripture that the Anabaptist Doctrin against infants Baptism is not of Scripture and yet you permit them all to live in peace you confess they are true Children of the Reformation tho dissenters from you why because they follow Scripture as they vnderstand it and this is our Rule of faith and why will not you say the belief and life of that other man is also of the Reformation tho absurd it may seem to you since he believes and lives as he judges by Scripture he may it follows therefore plainly that this is the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael I confess our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it but you cannot doubt but that its needfull to moderat and curb this libertie or it may run too farr for if every man be lycenc't to believe and teach every thing he fancies to be according Scripture as there is no Doctrin so execrable but som ignorant Reader may hit vpon a text which ill vnderstood may seem to favor it so there will be none but may be believed and called the Doctrin of the Reformation for example Beza teaches and saies its also the Doctrin of Calvin Saumaize and Geneve that the Lords supper may belawfully administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine in Eges flesh fish c. Where there is no bread and wine saies he wee may duly celebrat if insteed of them we vse what wee vsually eate and drink And again in the same place If there be no water at hand and that baptism ' cannot be with edification differed I would baptize in any other liquor Isaac and why should not it be lawfull to any Reformed to believe this wheras its Scripture as interpreted by a man of so sound a judgment but I do not in any wise like that opinion of yours and of the Church of England that its convenient to limit and curb mens judgments least they may run too farr this is the Policy of Rome They will not permit an arbitrary interpretation of Scripture alleadging forsooth for inconveniencie the multitude of absurd Doctrins which the word would swarm with if such a libertie were granted No No far be it from any true Reformed Child to mislike or blame that all people should interpret Scripture and believe what they judge by it to be true and if what the judge to be true should seem to you fals and scandalous do not you believe it but let them believe it and they will be of the Reformation because they follow our Rule of faith Ismael Luther Melancton Musculus Ochinus Beza and others teach the lawfullness of Bigamy or multiplicity of Wives and prove it with the example of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and Ochinus expounding the text of S. Paul It behoueth a Bishop to be a man of one Wife The prohibition saies he is not to be vnderstood so that a Bishop should have but one wife at a time for certainly he may have many but S. Paul's meaning is that he ought not to have too many wyves at a time that 's to say ten or twentie Isaac And will you deny this to be the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras its Scripture as interpreted by men of so eminent and sound a judgment Ismael The synod of Geneve and the Ecclesiastical Disciplin of France printed at Saumure has decreed that a wife whose husband is a long time absent may have him called by the public Cryer and if within a competent time he does not appear without any further enquiry the Minister may lycence her to marry an other or marry her himself Isaac J say all honest Women may practise this Doctrin without scruple or shame wheras its Scripture as interpreted by that thrice holy synod but let seamen beware how they undertake long voyages for feare their Wyves may take other husbands in their absence Ismael Luther teachs its lawfull to a wife if her husband does not please her to call her
Man servant or her neighbour which Doctrin they say is come to the eares of our London Sisters and he gives the like libertie to the husbands if their Wyves be pettish and humorsom If the husband saies he cannot correct the humorsomness of his wife he may imagin she is dead and may marry an other because it s not in the powâ—r of a Man to live without a Woman nor in hers to live without a man Isaac This is Scripture as interpreted by Luther and consequently must not be denied to be the Doctrin of the Reformation nor can any of our Reformation be justly punisht or blam'd for practising it if he judges by Scripture it be true as Luther did for this is our Rule of faith But Luther never gave this libertie but vpon condition that the husband or wife should first make their complaint before a Magistrat for to have a redress of their injurie and discontent but this condition seems too combersom to the modestie of our sisters they do noâ— submit to it but do themselves justice without any address to the Magistrat I know also that not only Luther but Bucer Melancton Ochinus Musculus and Calvinâ— do teaâ—h that a Man who finds his wife in Adulterie may cast her of by Divorce and marry an other and our french synods have ordered thiâ— Doctrin to be put in their Ecclesiastical Disciplin so that its the Doctrin of Scripture as interpreted by these Persons of sound judgment and consequently of the Reformation you may therefore believe and practise it our Sisters particularly our Ministers wyves were much alarm'd at this Doctrin and say its à damnable Heresy believe as you please Ismael Does not Luther say itâ— impossible a yong man of 20 years can liue without a woman or a yong maide of 18 years without a manâ— whereby all Parents may believe their Daughters of that age are defiled if not preferr'd in due time sure you will not say this is the Doctrin of the Reformation Isaac And who doubts but thaâ— its the Reformed Doctrin Scripture as interpreted by so sound a judgment the contrary Doctrin is also of the Reformation and you may believe it because our glorious Queen Elizabeth dyed a Virgin and it s credibly reported som few fellows of Oxford and Cambridge liue continently Ismael But what do you think of a Child Christen'd in Popery by a Monk or a Fryar ought he to be Christen'd again in our Reformation and what if a Popish Priest or Fryar did becom of our Reformed Church can he lawfully marry wheras he made a vow of Chastity Isaac As to the first Quere it s the Doctrin of the Reformation declared by many french Synods and recorded in their Ecclesiastical Disciplin that he must be Christen'd again because the first baptism was Null it s also the Doctrin of the Reformation declared by the Church of England and many Synods of France that the first Baptism is sufficient and valid believe which you please It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that Infants baptism is not at all needfull nay nor Lawfull say the Anabaptists so saies Calvin Zuinglius Beza and many others it s likewise the Doctrin of our 39. Articles and our holy Synod of London that Infants baptism is lawfull and needfull Believe which you like best both are of the Reformation As to the second Quere it s the Doctrin of the Reformation that Priests and Fryars are obliged to the vow of Chastity which they made in Popery and cannot marry this is the Doctrin of many of our Brethren and particularly of Hooker Marloratus Budellus and Couel who say the Papish vows of Pouertie Obedience and Chastitie are commendable and ought to be kept You may also believe this is wicked Doctrin and that they may take wyues notwithstanding their vow of Chastitie as well as Benefices notwithstanding their vow of Pouertie believe which you please both Doctrins are of the Reformation but the best is to say they can marry for if marriage and benefices were denied them no Priest or Fryar would euer embrace our Reformed Doctrin We know our great Zuinglius himself would not at all preach the Ghospell vnto the Suitzers vntill that he presented a petition for himself and his companions all Priests and Fryars extant yet in his 1. Tom. pag. 110. and obtained the contents of it which was to have Wyves Nor can wee doubt this to be the best Doctrin wheras Luther Beza and almost all our other Reformers were Priests and Fryars and the first step they gaue in the Reformation was to Marry the Papists and som weake Brethren were much scandalized at Luthers marriage and Erasmus his rallerie vpon it was much solemnised Luther yesterday a Monk to day a husband and next day à Father because that honest Cate Boren his virtuous Bride was hapily delivred of a louey Boy eight daies after he married her but the Servant of God did not regret the action which proues that he judged by scripture it was very lawfull V. DIALOGUE ISMAEL You know I have been born and bred in our holy Reformation and a Church of England man you tell me I may believe this or that and whateuer I please I would gladly settle once for ever and resolve what J may and ought to believe and not to be euery day carried away with euery wind of Doctrin let me to that purpose propose vnto you and hear your resolution of som doubts What do you think have not wee a Church on earth establisht by Christ wherin wee are to live and serve him and believe her Doctrin Isaac J will giue you no other instruction nor answer but the pure Doctrin of the Reformation which when you have heard you may determin as you like best what religion to embrace but know this that after you have determin'd with yourself to believe this or that you may with a very safe conscience alter that resolution next day after and believe the quite contrary to what you resolved to believe if vpon better consideration you thinke the contrary to be true this is the libertie of the holy Reformation as J proued in my first Dialogue As to your present doubt J answer it s the Doctrine of the Reformation that it was Jesus Christ the son of God who establisht the Church you may believe it therefore It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that it was not Jesus Christ the son of God who establisht the Church that this is the Doctrin of our Reformation its apparent for its Scripture as interpreted by Ochinus a man of sound judgment whom all Italy could not match saies Calvin in whose presence England was happy and vnhappy in his absence saies B Bale Ochinus speakes thus Considering how the Church was establisht by Christ and washt with his blood and considering again how it was vtterâ—y ouerthrowen by Papacy I concluded that he who
establisht it could not be Christ the son of God because he wanted prouidence and vpon this reflexion he renounced Christ and became a Jew And no man can say but that he acted and behaued himself like a true Child of the Reformation in so doing for he followed scripture as he vnderstood it and as he was a true Reformed Child in forsaking Popery because he vnderstood by Scripture that the Reformation was better so since he vnderstood by reading Scripture more that Judaism was better than the Reformation he acted like a good Reformed in chosing that which he vnderstood by Scripture to be the best this is the Reformations Rule of faith do you if you please as he did and you 'l be as good a Reformed as he And if you choose to believe that there is a Church establisht on earth by Christ you must beware never to believe or perswade yourself that wee are bound to believe her Docctrin or live in her if you do not judge by scripture that she teachs the Doctrin of Christ This is the most essential point of Popery An obligation of submitting our judgments to the Church and believing her Doctrin without any more examin and in this the Church of England is much like the Popish Church which by acts of Parliaments and other severities would oblige all men to believe her Doctrin Rites and Ceremonies No God has given vs scripture for our Rule of faith as wee forsook the Popish Church because wee discouered by Scripture her many Errors in Doctrin so wee are not bound to believe the Doctrin of any other Church but as wee find by scripture her Doctrin is true Do and speake as Luther to 1. Edit Jen. in Resolut I will be free and will not submit to the authority of Councils Popes Church or vniversity to the contrary I will confidently teach whatever I judge to be true whether it be Catholic Doctrin or hereticall condemned or approued Ismael Must I not believe that the Doctrin of Jesus Christ delivered to his Apostles and the Church is true Doctrin Isaac The Reformation teaches it is and you may safely believe it You may as safely believe it is not in the Principles of the Reformation because it teaches that Christ err'd in Doctrin and manners Vere Pharisaei eâ—ant viri valde boni saies Luther Christus minime debuit eos taxare and Calvin saies it s a folly to think he was not ignoranâ— in many things lastly David Georgius a Man of God and of a holy life saies Osiander writes If the Doctrin of Christ and his Apostles had been true and perfect the Church which they planted had continued but now it is manifest that Antichrist has subverted it as it 's manifest in Papacy therefore it was false and impeâ—fect See these words quoted in the historie of David George printed by the Divins of Basile at Antwerp an 1568. both Doctrins are Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment a Child of the Reformation may believe which he will Ismael Is it not the Doctrin of the Reformation that the Apostles were infallible in their Doctrin much more must wee believe that Jesus Christ was so Isaac Yes it is you may believe it and it s also the Doctrin of the Reformation that they were not infallible neither in their written or vnwritten Doctrin so many of our most renowned Drs speake and whatever any men of sound judgment judge to be true by scripture is the Doctrin of the Reformation Zuinglius one of the greatest Oracles of our Church saies It 's a great ignorance to believe any infallible authority in the Ghospels or Epistles of the Apostles Beza not inferiour to Zuinglius blotted out of S. John the historie of the Woman Adulteress judging it a fable Clebitius affirms that Luk's relation of Christ's passion is not true because it does not agree with that of Mathew and Mark and more credit is to be given to two than to one Calvin saies Peter consented to and added to the schism of the Church to the ouerthrow of Christian liberty and Christ's Grace Whitaker sais It 's evident that after the Descent of the Holy G. the whole Church even the Apostles erred and Peter erred in Doctrin and Manners Luther saies Peter liued and taught extra Verbum Dei and Brentius his disciple saies that Peter and Barnabas togither with the Church of Ierusalem erred after receiving the H. Ghost If our Rule of faith be Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it vndoubtedly this must be the Doctrin of the Reformation and may be believed by any Reformed since its Scripture interpreted by such renowned men Ismael This is most wicked Doctrin I 'l never believe it Isaac Jf you think by Scripture its wicked do not follow your Rule of faith Scripture as you vnderstand it but if an other vnderstands by scripture as those authors did that the Doctrin is good give him leave to believe it hee 'l but follow his Rule of faith Scripture as he vnderstands it Ismael I would gladly know which are the true Canonical bookes of scripture Isaac The Reformation teachs and you may believe with the Church of England that S. Paul's Epistle to the Hebrews those of James and Jude the 2. of S. Peter the 2. and 3 of S. John are true Cononical Scripture the Reformation also teachs they are not Canonical because Lutherans deny them believe which you like best But if you l ' live in peace and out of all strife with Protestants Lutherans and others who dispute if this or that be Canonical Scripture your rediest and speediest way will be to say ther 's no true Canonical Scripture Scripture is no more to be regarded than other pious bookes if you say this is not the Doctrin of the Reformation reade Hossius de expresso Verbo Dei lib. de Haer. where he relates this to be the Doctrin of the Swiâ—feldians as good Reformeds as the best of vs they say that wee are not to regard any instruction from man or book but Gods immediat inspiration which speakes secretly to our hearts for which they alleadge those comfortable words of the prophet I will hear what my Lord my God speakes in me for say they the book which we call Scripture is a creature and we must not seeke for light and instruction from any creature but from God the Father of Lights This is Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment any Child of the Reformation may believe it Ismael I thought to settle my mind in my choyce of som Religion and you go the way to beate me from all for if you renvers the authority of Scripture what warrant shall wee haue for any Religion God forbid the Reformation should deny the true Canon or the infallible truth of Scripture and let all the world say the contrary I will constantly revere and believe it's Gods infallible
word Isaac How can you say I beate you from all Religion when I directly perswade you to follow the Rule of faith of our Reformation Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it let this be your Religion if you will be a true Reformed Whateuer you judge in your conscience to be true let the Church of England or France or any other say and believe what they will you are to believe but what you judge by scripture to be true and this is the Religion of the Reformation Ismael J would gladly know if it be lawfull to chop or change the text Isaac It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that you cannot because God has forbid to add to or take away from his word and therefore wee condemn the Papists for their Traditions obtruded vpon the flock as the Word of God It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation and the practise of our best Reformers when the text does not speake cleerly enough that for to refute Popery and establish our own Doctrin wee may add or diminish a word or two which is not to change the Word of God but to make it speake more expresly as when Luther had a mind to preach Iustification by faith alone finding the Text said but Man is justified by faith he added the word Alone and made the Text very cleer against Popery which formerly was somwhat obscure Zuinglius being to teach the Figurative presence of Christ in the Sacrament found the Text this is my Body to be too pat against his Doctrin and insteed of Is put in this signifieth The Church of England being to preach the kings Spiritual Supremacy could not convince the obstinat Papist by the Original text which saide 1. Pet. 2 submit yourselvts vnto every human creature for the Lord's sake whether it it be the king as excelling or to c. But in king Edwards time they altered one word and made the text thus submit yourselves to every Ordinance of man whether it be to the king as being the cheef head and the following impressions of the Bible the yeare 1557. and 79. saie To the king as supreame And so the true Ductrin is cleerly convinced out of Scripture as also the Lawfullness of Priests marriageâ— for the text before the Reformation said 1. Cor. 9 have not wee power to leade about a Woman sister and now our Bibles say have not wee power to leade about a Wife being our sister hence its evident according the Doctrine and practise of our Reformation that when you have a mind to establish a Doctrin which you judge to be true you may change the text and make it speake to your sense and meaning provided you judge your sense to be true Ismael What do you think of Iustifying faith does faith alone justify vs Isaac It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that without charity it cannot because S. Paul saies 1. Cor. 13. if I have faith so as to move mountains and have no charity I am nothing It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that its impious and wicked to say faith alone without charity does not justify this is Scripture as interpreted by Luther a man of sound judgment Who say quoth Luther that faith alone tho perfect it be cannot justify without charitie say impiously and wickedly because faith alone without any good works doth justify Believe which Doctrin you please both are of the Reformation Ismael Luther was insolent in checking the Doctrin of S. Paul Isaac Probably he did not reflect that it was the Doctrin of the Apostle and if you will have it to be a check of S. Paul Luther will answer for himself Be it saies he that the Church Augustiâ— or other Drs also Peter and Paul nay and an Angel from heaven should teach otherwise than as I teach yet my Doctrin is such that it setteth forth Gods glory I know I teach no human but Divin Doctrin It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that faith alone without any good works and notwithstanding all sins you are guiltie of doth justify you this is Scripture as interpreted by Luther who saies nothing can damn you but incredulity as nothing but faith can save you of Whitaker Wotten fulk and Beza whose words I related in our precedent Dialogue which J believe you remember and J need not repeat Jts also the Doctrin of the Reformation that good workes are meritorious of grace and glorie Hocker and Harmonia confess say its the Doctrin of scripture and what any Person of sound judgment judges to be the Doctrin of scripture he may believe it for this is our Rule of faith it s like wise the Doctrin generally of all our Church that good Works are not at all meritorious Tindal called by Fox a Man of God and a constant Martyr judges this to be so true that in his treatise de Mammona iniquitatis he saies Christ himself did not by all his good Works merit the glory and tho the scripture saies expresly he did Calvin affirms that its a foolish curiosity to examin and a rash proposition to say Christ did merit Jt's the Doctrin of the Reformation that tho good works be not meritorious nor have not the least influence in our justification or salvation yet they are absolutly needfull for both in as much as that true faith cannot be without good Works because they are the marks and signs of a living faith by which alone wee are saved this is the judgment of the Church of England expressed in the 11. and 12. Article of the 39. and of Melancton in locis Commun de Bonis operibus and you may believe it You may also believe and its the Doctrin of the Reformation that good Works are so farr from being needfull that they are prejudicious and hurtfull to our salvation and the best way to be saved is to do no good Work at all this is scripture as interpreted by Jlliricus Flaccius Amsdorfius quoted in Act. Colloq Aldeburg pag. 205. and 299. and Luther was so deeply perswaded of this truth that tho Christ said If â—hou wilt enter into the kingdom of heaven keep the Commandments Luther saies it s an obstacle to our Salvation to keep them Where it is said quoth he that faith in Christ doth indeed justify vs but that it is necessary also to keep the Commandements there Christ is denied and faith abolisht because that which is proper to faith alone is attributed to the Commandements And again saies he if faith be-acompanied with good Works it s â—o true faith that it may justifie it must be alone without any good Works This is Scripture as interpreted by such Eminent and sound men and consequently the Doctrin of the Reformation and who doubts but that any Doctrin of the Reformation may be believed Hence forward when you hear the preacher exhort you to good Works you may believe him if you please and have a
mind to spend your monies because he preaches the Doctrin of the Reformation or you may laugh at him and believe not a word he saies because he preachs against the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael These are dangerous and scandalous Tenets destructive of piety and Christianity and let Luther and those Authors you quoted say what they please the Reformation nor no honest man will ever believe such abominable Doctrin Isaac J do not say that the Children of the Reformation are obliged to believe them they may believe as you do that all are wicked Tenets but if Luther and the others cited judge in their conscience these Tenets to be the Doctrin of scripture and if Peter John or James like their interpretation I say they may according the Principles of our Reformation believe them and be as truly Reformed Children as you for our Rule of faith is Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and in believing those Tenets because they judge them to be the Doctrin of scripture they stick fast to and follow our Rule of faith why is Figurative Presence and the kings supremacie the Doctrin of the Reformation tho denied by Papists Lutherans and Presbyterians but because the Protestants judge its the Doctrin of scripture if therefore those great Authors I quoted and any other with them judge those Tenets to be the Doctrin of Scripture they can be justly called the Doctrin of the Reformation must Protestants be forced against their judgments to deny Real Presence and supremacy because Lutherans say its wicked Doctrin and why must Luther Jlliticus Flaccius and others be forced to deny those Tenets tho Protestants or Papists judge them to be damnable I let each one believe what he thinks to be the Doctrin of Scripture and he will still be a true Reformed Child Ismael Does not our Reformation teach that it 's possible to all men assisted with Gods Grace to keep the Commandments Isaac This is the Doctrin of the Church of England and consequently of the Reformation It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation delivered out of Scripture as interpreted by Luther Calvin Willet and several others that its impossible to any man assisted with what Grace soever to keep the Commandments None has euer yet saies our great Calvin and God has decreed none shall ever keep the Commandments Again The law and Commandments were giuen vs to no other end but that we should be damn'd by them in as much as that it is impossible for vs to do what they command The same Doctrin is taught by Luther in several places of his Works by Willet and by our Brethren the Gomarists of Holland and many of our french Synods Believe which you please both Doctrins are of the Reformation Jt's also the Doctrin of Luther and Calvin that God does not cast men into hell because their sins deserve it nor save men because they merit it but meerly because he will have it so He crowns those who have not deserved it saies Luther and he punishes those who have not deserved it t is Gods wrath and seuerity to damn the one 't is his Grace and mercy to saue the other Calvin also Men are damn'd for no other cause but because God will have it so he is the cause and author of their damnation their damnation is decreed by God when they are in their Mother's womb because he will have it so this is also the belief of our Gomarists in Holland of many french Churchs and of several learned Calvinists tho the Church of England denies this Doctrin none will dare say it s not the Doctrin of the Reformation because its Scripture as interpreted by such Eminent men of our Church Ismael J will neuer believe such execrable Doctrins nor will J euer be of any Congregation which believes them Isaac J do not advise you to believe them but to giue others leaue to believe them if they think them to be the Doctrin of Scripture as Luther Calvin Willet Gomarists and others do you must not if you be a true Reformed Child hinder any man from believing nor be displeased with him for believing what he judges in his conscience to be the Doctrin of Scripture for this is our Rule of faith Will not you be of the Congregation and Religion of those who follow Scripture as their Rule of faith and Believe what they judge in their conscience to be the Doctrin of Scripture Ismael Yes J will and am of such a Congregation for this is the Rule of faith of the Reformation Isaac Why then you must be of the same Congregation with the Gomarists Luther Calvin and the others who believe those which you call execrable Doctrins because they follow Scripture as they vnderstand and believe those Doctrins because they judge them to be of Scripture you both follow the same Rule one goes one way and the other an other and both are of the Reformation The Church of England vnderstands by Scripture that God is not the Author nor cause of sin that he does not force vs to sin who doubts but that this is there fore the Doctrin of the Reformation But Calvin Brentius Beza and several others vndestand by Scripture that God is the cause and author which forces our Will to sin that man and the deuil are but Gods instruments to commit it that murthers incests blasphemies c are the works of God that he makes vs commit them and who doubts but this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation being Scripture as interpreted by such eminent and sound judgments God saies Calvin directs moues inclins and forces the Will of man to sin in so much that the power and efficacy of working is wholy in him man nay and satan when he impells vs Being only Gods instruments which he vses for to make vs sin Zuinglius Willet Beza teach the same VI. DIALOGUE ISMAEL J am weary of hearing such horrid blasphemies my heart trembles to heare you say that such abominable Tenets may be believed according our Rule of faith and Principles of our Reformation I beseech you let me hear no more of such stuff J conceive very well that mens judgments and consciences are not to be constrain'd to believe or deny this or that Tenet because the Pope or his infaillable forsooth Church wil have it so Isaac and must they be constrain'd to deny or believe because the fallible Church of England or France will have it so Ismael No J do not say they must have patience and heare me speake a whyle J say that Scripture must be our Rule of faith and not any Pope or Church or Congregation and that wee are no to be forced by any to believe but what wee vnderstand to be true by Scripture and that if wee judge by Scripture any Doctrin to be fals and contrary to Gods Word wee must not be forced to believe it but wee must not abuse this
liberty that wee should have libertie for to believe or deny supremacy figurative Presence Communion in one or both kinds and such other inferior Truths controverted among Christians and that each Congregation may in such Articles believe as it vnderstands by Scripture to be true may pass and it s practis'd in our Reformed Churchs But that wee should run so farr as to have libertie by our Rule of faith to believe or deny the Fundamental and chief Articles of Christianity as the Trinity Incarnation Divinity of Christ c. that libertie ought not to be giuen our Reformation very wisely and piously permits the Lutherans to believe one thing the Presbyterians an other the Protestants an other and so of the rest and all are true Reformed Children because each of them believes as they judge by Scripture to be true but the Reformation has neuer giuen not neuer will giue liberty to interpret Scripture against the fundamental articles of Christanity wee must be moderat and keep our rambling fancies within compass and if any should judge and interpret Scripture in favor of any scandalous and abominable Tenets against Christianity and good Manners he must be checkt and not commended this moderation the Church of England vses and will never permit the contrary Isaac J percevie a greate deale of Popish blood to run in your veins and that if you and your Church of England were in pâ—ower at the beginning of our Reformation wee should neuer have had a Luther Calvin Beza or such other noble and renowned Reformers by what J gather from your discourse J do not see the breth of an inchs difference betwixt the Church of Rome and you and your Church of England for the Church of Rome will not stick to grant that Gods Word alone is her Rule of faith but so that none must believe any sense of it but as she believes it nor interpret any text but receive her interpretation of it The Church of England has Scripture for her Rule of faith and gives vs libertie for to interpret vnderstand and believe som texts of it as each one thinks best and so permits Presbyterians to deny Episcopacy Lutherans to deny Figurative Presence c. and confesses they are all her Brethren of the Reformation but she will give no libertie at all for to interpret other Texts but all must vnderstand them as she does or all must be heretiks and damn'd men No that text My father and I are one must be interpreted to signifie the Unitie in Nature of the Father and son as the Church of England believes none must interpret it otherwise so that the difference betwixt the Popish Church and that of England is the first giues vs no liberty at all the second giues us som libertie the first robs vs of all the second but of the one half the Rule of faith in Popery is Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Councils the Rule of faith in England as to som Articles is Scripture as interpreted by the Church of Enggland and as to other Articles Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and thus Protestants are but half Papists and half Reformed and both these ingredients will never make a good compound Let any vnbyass'd and impartial man judge if the Church of England proceeds justly in this for if our Rule of faith be Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it as she mentions in her 39. Articles and as the whole Reformation believes if wee are not to be constraind to believe any Church Council or mans sense of Scripture if wee do not judge by the Word of God its true by what authority Rule or reason can the Church of England give me libertie to vnderstand and believe som texts as J please and deny me libertie for to vnderstand and believe others as J judge by Scripture they ought to be vnderstood J pray observe well this discourse heer are Luther Calvin Beza Zuinglius and our other first Reformers they interpret som texts against the Doctrin of Rome and others against the Doctrin of the Church of England they are praised for the first and esteemed Apostolical Reformers because without any regard of what the Church of Rome said they freely taught and believed what they judged by Scripture to be true why must not they be praised and esteemed true Reformers also for not regarding what the Church of England or any other saies but teach the impossibility of Gods Commandments the sufficiency of faith alone and all those other Tenets which you so much mislike since they judge by Scripture that to be the true Doctrin are they bound to submit their judgments to the Church of England more than to that of Rome Ismael But in those Tenets they do not only contradict the Church of England but all Christian Churchs and Congregations for all will say those are wicked and scandalous Doctrin Isaac And if they judge by Scripture that those Tenets are not such but sound and good Doctrin may not they believe them tho all the world and ten worlds did gainsay them is not Scripture our Rule of faith and are wee to regard what any Church or all Churchs say further than wee find by Scripture that they say well But being these Tenets which you call horrid blasphemies displease you I 'll change my discourse and because I see you are Popishly inclined J will shew you how by the Principles of our Reformation you can be as good a Papist as the Pope one principle excepted wherin you must dissent from the Church of Rome if you intend to remain a true Reformed Child Ismael You promise too much and more than J desire to know J don't desire to have any Communication with the Pope I know by the Writings of our Authors what kind of beast he is Isaac By your favor you may believe the Popes are worthy honest and godly men many Drs. of our Reformation and our Travellers to the Court of Rome give this testimonie of them you may also believe that Popes and Cardinals are knaves and Atheists who looke on Scripture as a Romance and deny the Incarnation of Christ for Calvin saies so and would never have said it if it had not been true but beware not to speake so in Rome or they 'l lodge you where honest Taylor the Quaker was nor in Spain or they 'l stop your mouth with an Inquisition faggot Ismael J care not what the Pope or Cardinals are but J would gladly know what religion and Congregation you are of for wheras you are my immediat instructor it behoues me to know what religion you have Isaac As to my Religion I doubt not but that my Readers will be devided in their judgments of me if a Papist reades me hee 'l sweare I am an Atheist but J hope he will not pretend to be infallible as his Pope if a Protestant hee l say I am a Papist and that my drift is to cast
Tenets the Doctrin of the Reformation or consistent with its Principles Isaac The kings supremacy is vndoubtedly the Doctrin of the Reformation because it s judged by the Church of England to be of Scripture yet not only the Quakers Presbyterians Anabaptists and other Congregations judge it s not of Scripture but as erroneus a Tenet as that of the Popes supremacy Calvin 6. Amos saies They were vnaduised people and blasphemers who raised king Henry the VIII so far as to call him the head of the Church but also that no Civil Magistrat can be the head of any particular Church is the Doctrin of the Centuriators cent sept pag. 11. of Cartwright Viretus Kemnitius and many others who doubts then but that in the Principles and Doctrin of the Reformation you may deny the Kings Supremacy tho the Church of England believes it The Popes Supremacy is the Doctrin of Popery who doubts it but it s also the Doctrin of the Reformation for many of our Eminent Drs. haue judged it to be the Doctrin of Scripture as Whitgift who cites Calvin and Musculus for this opinion but its needfull wee relate som of their express words I do not deny saies Luther but that the Bishop of Rome is has been and ought to be the first of all I believe he is aboue all other Bishops it s not lawfull to deny his supremacy Melancton saies no less that the B. of Rome is aboue all the Church that it is his Office to govern to judge in controversies to watch ouer the Priests to keep all Nations in conformity and vnity of Doctrin Somaisius The Pope of Rome has been without controversie the first Metropolitan in Italie and not only in Italie nor only in the West but in all the world the other Metropolitans have bin chief in their respective districts but the pope of Rome has bin Metropolitan and Primat not only of som particular Dioces but of all Grotius has expresly the same Doctrin and proves this supremacy belongs to the Pope de Iure Divino J pray consider if these Drs. be not men of sound judgment and of eminent learning and credit in our Reformation and if our Doctrin be Scripture as such men vnderstand it consider I say with what justice can this Doctrin be called Popery more than Reformed Doctrin As for Transubstantiation it contains two difficulties first if the Body of Christ be really in the Sacrament and this Real presence the Lutherans defend to be the Doctrin of Scripture as well as the Papists why then should it be called Popish more than Reformed Doctrin the second is if the substance of bread be in the Sacrament togither with Christs Body Lutherans say it is Papists say it is not but that there is a Transubstantiation or change of the whole substance of bread into the Body of Christ but hear what Luther saies of this that wee call Popish Doctrin I give all Persons libertie to believe in this point what they please without hazard of their salvation either that the bread is in the Sacrament of the Altar or that it is not Would Luther have given this liberty if Transubstantiation had not been the Doctrin of the Reformation as well as any other Calvin also and Beza affirm that Luther's Doctrin of the coexistence of Christ's Body and the bread is more absurd than the Popish Doctrin of the existence of the Body alone if therefore wee be true Reformed and safely believe the Doctrin of Luther which is the most absurd much more will we be of the Reformation by believing that of the Papists which is less Communion in One kind is the Doctrin of the Reformation no less than Communion in both for besides that Luther saies They sin not against Christ who vse one kind onely seeing Christ has not commanded to vse both and again tho it were an excellent thing to vse both kinds in the Sacrament and Christ has commanded nothing in this as necessary yet it were better to follow peace and Vnity than to contest about the kinds but also Melancton who in the opinion of Luther surpasses all the Fathers of the Church expresly teachs the same Doctrin and the Church of England Statut 1. Edward VI. commands That the Sacrament be commonly administer'd in both kinds if necessitie does not require otherwise mark he saies but Commonly and that for som necessity it may be receved in one lastly th◠sufficiency of one kind in the Sacrament is plainly set down by our Reformed Church of France in her Ecclesiastical Disciplin printed at Saumur chap. 12. art 7. The Minister must give the bread in the supper to them who cannot drink the Cup provided it be not for contempt And the reason is because there are many who cannot endure the tast of Wine wherefore it often happens among them that som persons do take the bread alone and truly if som of our Ministers in England do not give better wine than they are acustomed who very irreverently serve that holy Table with naughtie trash it s much to be feared that our flock will also petition to be dispens'd with in the Cup because there are som of so delicat Palats that they cannot endure the tast of bad Wine Now you may admire the injustice of the Papists in condemning our Reformed Doctrin and Doctors as Hereticks wheras those Tenets are believed by many of vs as well as by them and the groundless severity of our Congregations in exclaiming against that Doctrin it being the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras so many eminent men of our own judge it to be of Scripture Ismael Wheras I see people persecuted by the Church of England for these Tenets I can hardly be perswaded they are the Doctrin of the Reformation at our next meeting wee will pursue this discourse the Bell rings for morning Prayers A Dieu VII DIALOGUE ISAAC You come from Church as I guess by the Common Prayer booke I see in your hands I pray let me see the Kalender of it if it be à la mode nouvelle which was made by the Church of England since his Majesties restauration Ismael Why have you met any thing in it which shocks you Isaac Shock me No Doctrin or practice of any Congregation or man of sound judgment of our Church can shock me you know I pleade for libertie to believe and practise as each one judges by scripture to be true and good But I observe in your Kalender you have a day consecrated to S. Ann in the month of of July I would gladly know what Ann is this which the Church of England honors so much Ismael It 's Ann the Mother of the Virgin Mary Isaac Is 't possible J thought it was Ann Bolen the mother of our Virgen Elizabeth J am sure the Church of England is more obliged to her than to the other but as you have put heer the
Mother of the Virgin Mary why did not you put in also Elizabeth mother of the great Baptist and the Angel Gabriel as well as Michael Ismael J know not indeed Isaac Nor do J know if it be not because that Elizabeth and Gabriel made the Popish Ave Maria as Scripture relates but can you tell as the Church of England put in your Kalender S. George S. Andrew and S. David Patrons of England Scotland and Wales why did not she put in S. Patrick Patron of Ireland Ismael J can't tell what may be the reason think you Isaac J know not if it be not that he forfeited his place for his Purgatorie for tho the others were as deep in Popery as he if wee believe the Papists but the Parliament pass'd an Act of Indemnity for England Scotland and Wales after the kings return to his kingdoms and thereby the sin of Popery was forgiven to their Patrons and no act of Indemnitie was past for Jreland whereby Patrik is still guiltie if it be not that the Seaven Champions of Christendom tell us S. Patrick was S. George his footman and it was not thought good manners to put him in the same rank with his Master Ismael For shame if not for piety forbeare J cannot endure to sully sacred things with profane Ralleries the Kalender is a holy institution of the Church and ought to be reverenc'd Isaac And so is Episcopacy surplices Bells Organs and Corner Capps yet J hope you will give Presbyterians Anabaptists Quakers c. leave to laugh at them and be still as good Children of the Reformation as you if you esteem them to be sacred and holy reverence and honor them J commend you for it if others judge otherwise let them follow their humor each one as he fancies saies the fellow kissing â—his Cow this is the holy Libertie of the Reformation Scripture as each one vnderstands it Ismael Let vs return to our last discourse how is it possible that those Tenets of Popery should be the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras wee see the Church of England so severely persecut the Professors of them Isaac Do you think a Doctrin is not of the Reformation because it s denied by the Church of England or because she persecutes the Professors of it do not they persecute all non Conformists as well as Popery persecution is no proof of a Doctrin to be bad it 's but the effect of a blind zeale armed with power for to know certainly if a Doctrin be of the Reformation you must trye it by our test or Rule of faith which is the Written Word of God and whateuer any man of sound judgment of a sincere and humble heart judges to be contained in Scripture or an indubitable consequence out of it that man may believe that Doctrin let all others judge of it as they list and by so believing will be a true Child of the Reformation wherefore since that the Church of France that of England in Edward the VI. time Luther Melancton Grotius and the other authors J quoted do judge Transubstantiation Popes Supremacy and Communion in one kind to be the Doctrine of Sctipture wee must call it the Doctrin of the Reformation and if you judge as they did you may believe that Doctrin and be still of the Reformation as well as they Ismael Can you shew me any other Tenet of Popery which you can call the Doctrin of the Reformation Isaac Alas you can hardly shew me any Tenet of Popery but what is its Doctrin what Doctrin more Popish than that of Confession and Absolution from sins yet it s as truly the Doctrin of the Reformation as Figurative Presence for not only Lobechius Altamerus Sarcerius and Melancton say it s a Sacrament but the Church of England in our Common Prayer booke declares that Priests have not only the power of declaring their sins to be forgiuen to the Penitents but also the power of forgiuing them and sets down the form of Absolution which the Minister is to vse Our Lord Iesus Christ who left power to the Church to absolve all sinners which truly repent of his mercie forgive thee and thine offences and I by his authoritie committed vnto me do Absolve thee from all they sins the ministers of the Diocess of Lincoln in their Survey of the book of Common Prayers checkt this Doctrin as Popery and petitioned to have it blotted out but could not prevaile whereby we are given to vnderstand it s the Doctrin of the Reformation It 's Popery wee say to call Extream Vnction Confirmation and Holy Order of Priesthood Sacraments and who can justly denie all this to be the Doctrin of the Reformation for Calvin saies I confess the Disciples of Christ did vse Extream Vnction as a Sacrement I am not saies he of the opinion of those who judge it was only a Medecin for corporal diseases Calvin also and with him our Common Prayer book and all our Divins say a Sacrament is nothing els but a Visible sign of the invisible Grace wee receive by it and they say with Couel Hooker and others that this definition fits exactly Confirmation wherfore the Ministers of the Diocess of Lincolne checkt the Common Prayer book for giving the Difinition of a Sacrament to Confirmation Melancton Bilson Hooker and Calvin expresly teach that the Order of Priesthood is a SacrameÌ„t And when men of so emineÌ„t judgment of our Reformation teach this to be the Doctrin of Scripture who doubts but that it is of the Reformation Ismael By this you destroy the Doctrin of the Reformation of two Sacraments only Isaac Destroy it God forbid Because the Church of England saies there are but two Sacraments I say its the Doctrin of the Reformation there are but two and because so many eminent men judge by Scripture there are more J say its the Doctrin of the Reformation there are more that 's to say six Baptism Confirmation Eucharist Pennance Extrem Unction and Holy Order and every likely our Bishops and Ministers for their Wyves sake will not stick to grant that Matrimony also is a Sacrament Ismael But can you say that Prayers to Saints and Jmages Prayers for the dead and Purgatorie are not meer Popery and in no wise the Doctrin of the Reformation Isaac Without doubt those Tenets are Popery but all the world knows the Lutherans vse Jmages in their Churchs and pray before them and the â—oly synod of Charenton has declared as wee said in our first Dialogue that the Lutherans have nothing of Superstition or Idolatry in their manner of Divin Worship this is also the Doctrin of Jacobus Andreas Brachmanus Kemnitius Luther and Brentius quoted by Beza and why should not a Doctrin judged by such eminent men to be of Scripture be called the Doctrin of the Reformation Prayers for the dead and Purgatorie is Popery confessedly but alas it is
taught expresly by Urbanus Regius Bucer Zuinglius Melancton Luther the Common Prayer book in king Edwards time printed 1549. and many others of our learned Drs and what can you call more properly the Doctrin of the Reformation than what such men teach to be the Doctrin of scripture And tho our Brethren Quakers Anabaptists Presbyterians and Protestants judge Prayers to Angels and Saints to be nothing else but Popery yet our Common Prayer booke has the same Collect or Prayer to Angels in S. Michael's day that the Popish Mass Book has and desires that the Angels may succour and defend vs on earth and prayers to and intercession of Saints is taught by Luther Bilneus and Latimer quoted by Fox and consequently its the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael If all these Popish Articles may be safely believed by the Reformation and be the Doctrin of our Reformed Church as well as of Popery what difference then betwixt vs and Popery or why are we called a Reformation of Popery or why did wee separat from them Isaac J have told you already that our difference from Popery is not because wee must deny what they believe for wee believe as well as they the Unity and Trinity of God the Jncarnation of his son c. but in this that the Papists believe because the Pope and Church saies this is true revealed Doctrin but wee believe not because any Church Pope or Doctor saies so but because wee ourselves judge by scripture it is so for if a Papist did say I do not believe this is a revealed Truth because the Pope and Church saies it is but because I find by scripture it is he would be no Papist believe then whatever Doctrin you will either Popery Iudaism Protestancy Arianism or what else you please provided you judge by scripture it is true and that you believe it not because this or that Church Congregation or Drs believe it but because yourself judges it to be true you 'l be a true Child of the Reformation And this is the reason why wee are called a Reformation and why wee separated from them because they would haue vs take for our Rule of faith Scripture as interpreted by them and believe not what wee judge to be the Doctrin of Scripture but what they judge and this is also the Reason why Ptesbyterians are jealous with the Church of England why Anabaptists forsake Presbyterians why these are forsaken by Quakers because each one would haue the world judge as they do and persecute and trouble one another which is quite against the Spirit of the Reformation for wher as our Rule of faith is no Church Congregation or man but Scripture as each one vnderstands it it follows that by our Principles every one must be permitted to believe whatever he pleases and by so doing he will be a true Child of the Reformation Ismael The Church of England nor any of our Congregations will neuer believe any of those Popish Tenets Isaac The time may come that they may believe them all and be still as good Reformeds as now they are for if the Pope and his Church should to morrow deny and excommunicat those Tenets which now they so stedfastly believe and I hope they will som day then it would be a pious and virtuous action in all Reformed Children to believe them all as much as now they deny them and let vs pretend what other reason wee please but it s very certain that the strongest reason wee can haue to deny those Articles is because the Pope and his Church believes them and consequently if the Popish Church would but deny them wee might and ought to believe them you will think this a Paradox but listen to our Apostolical and Divin Luther If a general Council saies he did permit Priests to marry it would be a singular mark of piety and sign of Godlyness in that case to take Concubins rather than to marry in conformity to the Decree of the Council I would in that case command Priests not to marry vnder pain of damnation And again saies he if the Council should decree Communion in both kinds in contempt of the Council I would take one only kind or none See these words of Luther quoted by our learned Hospinian and Jewel and see it s not only my Doctrin but of great Luther that in case the Pope and Council deny all the Tenets they now believe wee may and it will be a pious godly action to believe them and make as many Acts of Parliament for them as now wee have against them But what 's the matter me thinks you become pale som thing troubles you speake what i st Ismael It 's the horror J conceive against your discourse my countenance cannot be in a calm when my mind is in such a storm and confusion pursue no more you said enough that J should curse the day J haue euer seen you or heard that which you call Holy Liberty which is but a prostitution of Consciences a profanation of all that is sacred and an open gap to all impiety in Doctrin and manners but J hope the Lord has giuen me that profound respect and attache to our holy Reformation that I shall not be beatten from it by all your engines able to inspire a contempt and hatred of it to any weake Brother for who would liue a moment in it if such impious Tenets such sandalous and blasphemous Doctrins were of it or were vnauoidable sequeles out of its principles No No the Principles of the Reformed Church are sound and Orthodox and no Doctrin can follow from them but what 's pure and true Isaac Let me tell you J have as tender a loue for the Reformation as you and J will maintain the holy Libertie J assert cannot justly be called a prostitution of Consciences for you dare not deny but this is an Orthodox and sound Principle that our Rule of faith is Scripture as â—ach Person of sound judgement vnderstands it that it is lawfull for each person of sound judgment to reade it to giue his judgement of the true sense of it and to believe and hold that sense of it which he thinks in his Conscience to be true is there any prostitution of Consciences in this Doctrin or is it not the Doctrin of our Reformation Ismael All this in true the prostitution of consciences leyes not there but in the scandalous and blasphemous Tenets which you pretend that follow out of that Rule of faith Isaac But you wrong the Reformation in calling such Tenets blasphemies and scandals for since our Rule of faith is Scripture as each Person of soud judgment vnderstands it if this Rule of faith be good and sound if it be religious and holy any Doctrin that is conformable to this Rule must be good sound religious and holy this being our Rule of faith and manners it s cleerer than day light
that all and each Tenet which J rehearsed in all my former discourses are consormable to our Rule of faith for our Rule is Scripture as each man of sound judgment vnderstands it our Doctrin therefore must be what any Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be the Doctrin of Scripture This is an evident sequele out of that Principle and wheras there is not one Tenet of all those which J rehearsed whether they concern Doctrin or Manners but was judged by the Doctors which J cited for it to be the Doctrin of Scripture it follows vnauoiably that there is not one Tenet of them but is the Doctrin of the Reformation therefore you must be forced to either of these two either to say that our Rule of faith by which such Doctrins are warranted is naught wicked and scandalous and leads to a prostitution of consciences and Manners or that all those Tenets are good sound pious and no prostitution or corruption of our consciences for pick and choose out the Doctrin which you think to be the most wicked and scandalous of all those J rehearsed you cannot deny but that it was taught by the author J quoted for it and judged by him to be the Doctrin of Scripture and if no Doctor hitherto had believed it you or J or som other person of sound judgment may judge it to be the Doctrin of Scripture either of both then you must be constrained to grant or that the Doctrin of the Reformation is not what each Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be the Doctrin and sense of Scripture which is as much as to say that our Rule of faith must not be Scripture as wee vnderstand it but that wee must believe against our own judgment and conscience what others say is the Doctrin and sence of Scripture or you must grant that all and each of those Tenets J rehearsed is the Doctrin of the Reformation tho you or this or that man may judge them to be blasphemies and scandals Ismael J confess our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each Person vnderstands it for all our Reformed Churchs with the Church of England inher 39. Articles do giue vs this Rule of faith I confess consequently out of this Principle that wee must not believe what Doctrin or sense of Scripture others judge to be true and orthodox if wee do not ourselues judge it to be such for wee must not be forced to believe against our judgments lastly I confess wee may safely believe whatsoeuer Doctrin wee seriously judge to be Doctrin of Scripture but prouided that such a Tenet or Doctrin be not plainly against Scripture and be not plain and downright impiety and blasphemie Isaac And in case you or the Church of England Rome France or Germany judges a Doctrin to be blasphemous and against Scripture and Luther or Calvin or J or an other judges it is good Doctrin and conformable to Scripture to which judgment must J stand must J believe yours against my Conscience and knowledge or must not J believe my own is it not the Principle and practice of our Reformation that J must believe what J judge in my conscience to be Scripture and not what others judge if they judge the contrarie when Luther began the Reformation did not almost all Christians and the whole Church believe Purgatorie and Prayers to saints to be the Doctrin of Scripture and did not he very commendably deny it against them all because he judged by Scripture it was not will a Presbyterian believe Episcopacy because the Church of England saies its the Doctrin of Scripture no but deny it because himsef judges it is not Ismael It s true each one may lawfully believe what himself judges to be the Doctrin of Scripture prouided he be a godly wel intentioned man humble and meeke in Spirit provided secondly that what he vnderstands to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture be not absurd and impious in the judgment of all the rest of the faithfull for let a man be euer se learned and godly if he gives an interpretation of Scripture which is denied by all the Church he must not be followed Isaac Your first Prouiso is very good and J hope you will meet no Doctor of all those J quoted for those Tenets which you call blasphemies who was not a learned godly humble and well intentioned man who will be so bold as to deny it of Luther Calvin Beza Zuinglius c. Your second Proviso is not just and in it you ouerthrow the whole Reformation and our Rule of faith for this being as you granted Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vndestands it whateuer interpretation or sense any man of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture he may safely and piously believe it tho all the rest of the world should judge it to be impious and blasphemous otherwise our Rule of faith must not be Scripture as wee vnderstand it but as it is vnderstood by others and wheras no Tenet of all those J rehearsed but was judged to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture by som of those eminent Drs. I quoted it follows they might have safely believed them and if you or J judge as they did wee may also believe as they did and be still of the Reformation Ismael It 's wicked and pernicious to say any particular Person may believe his own privat sense and interpretation of Scripture if it be judged by all others to be naught and therefore the Church of England prudently and wisely puts a stop and bridle to the extravagant and rambling imaginations of particular Persons they must conform themselves and believe but what the Church judges may be safely believed Isaac Pray Sr. since when is it cōmendable to constrain mens judgments to believe not what each one thinks best but what the Church thinks may be safely believed was this commendable in the beginning of our Reformation when our blessed Reformers began to teach their privat judgments against the Church then establisht if it was then the Church of Rome is to be commended for persecuting and excommunicating our first Reformers and if this was not nor is not commendable in the Church of Rome why is it commendable in the Church of England this is a peece of Popery wherof the Church of England is guiltie and for which all our Congregations are iealous of her be it knowen to you our other Congregations Lutherans Calvinists Anabaptists c. are as truly and godly Children of the Reformation as the Church of England and they will not submit to that Popish tyranny nor suffer any curb to their judgments but will have our Rule of faith to be but Scripture and each one to vnderstand and believe it as he thinks best in the Lord. Ismael J confess other Congregations will admit no such curb nor bridle to their judgments but follow Scripture as they vnderstand it but the Church of England has a
out of heauens gates and suffer Inquisitions persecutions excommunications and what not so among vs you must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England or you are condemned by them you must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Presbyterians or you are accursed by them you must believe as Anabaptists do or you are damn'd by them and not one Congregation among vs but would root all the others out of the world if it could and wee do not feare that danger wherof S. Paul Gal. 5.15 warns vs If wee bite and devour one an other let 's take heed wee be not consumed one of an other giving vs likewise a holsom advice in the same place how to prevent this euil Stand fast in the libertie wherewith Christ has made vs free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage The world did groan vnder this heauy yoke in Popery wherin our Rule of faith was Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Church Scripture was kept from the hand of the flock no man permitted to give or believe any interpretation or sense of it but what the Pope Church and Fathers did approve our reason our judgments our consciences were slaves vnder this yoke vntill that God raised our glorious and blessed Reformers Luther Calvin Zuinglius Beza and others who tooke a holy Libertie and gave vâ— all libertie for to reade and interpreâ— Scripture to believe no Doctrin buâ— what wee judged to be true by Scripture to believe any sense of it which wee judged to be true tho contrary to all thâ— world they tooke for their Rule of faitâ— Scripture and nothing else but Scripturâ— as each one of them vnderstood it thiâ— same Rule of faith they left to vs and â— holy freedom and libertie of our judgments and consciences that any man oâ— sound judgment may hold and believâ— whatever sense of it he thinks to bâ— true This therefore is the scope and end oâ— my following Treatise that wheras ouâ— Rule of faith as J will prove by thâ— vnanimous coÌ„sent of our whole Reformed Church is Scripture or Gods Wriâ—ten Word as interpreted by each persoâ— of sound judgment that wheras bâ— the Principles of our Reformation nâ— man is to be constrained to believe anâ— Doctrin against his judgment and conscience otherwise why were not we left in Popery it is impious tyranâ—cal and quite against the spirit of the Reformation to force vs by Acts of Parliaments Decrees of Synods invectives and persecutions of indiscreet Brethren to embrace this or that Religion that every one ought to be permitted to believe what he please if you think Bigamy to be the Doctrin of Scripture if you think by Scripture there is one Nature and four Persons in God if you think Transubstantiation to be true if you judge by Gods Word ther 's neither Purgatory nor Hell finally whatever you think to be the true sense of scripture you are bound as a true Reformed Child to believe it that it is quite against the spirit of the Reformation to censure oppose or blame the Doctrin or Tenets of any Congregation or of any Doctor of the Reformed Church because that any Doctrin professed by any Christian Congregation whatever the Popish excepted or that ever was delivered by any man of good judgment of the Reformation since the beginning of it vntill this day is as truly and really the Doctrin of the Reformation as the Figurative Presence or kings supremacy is Consequently Protestants are deservedly to be checkt for persecutinâ— Quakers Quakers for murmuring againâ— Presbyterians these for their invectivâ— against Anabaptists and Socinians Aâ— are very good and you may lawfully according the Principles of our Reformâ—tion believe them or deny them This Evangelical libertie of believinâ— any thing which we judge to be the senâ— of scripture tho all the rest of the worlâ— should judge it to be a blasphemie the most distinctive sign of the Refoâ—mation from Popery for Papists are thâ— Children of Agar the slave they livâ— in bondage and constraint to believe at Doctrin which the Pope and Church prâ—poses to them and if a learned man â— vniversity should judge it to be contraâ— to Scripture he must submit his judgment to that of the Pope or be coâ—demn'd as an Heretic in our Reformâ—tion wee are the Children of Sara tâ— Free our Rule of faith is Scripture â— each Person of sound judgment in thâ— Church vnderstands it if wee do nâ— like the Doctrin of the Pope Church â— Council wee may gainsay them all anâ— hold our own sense of Scripture â— enjoy the Prerogative of Rational creâ—tures we are lead by our own reason which God has given vs for our conduct and are not like Beasts constrained to follow that of others Wee follow the Rule given vs by S. Paul Rom. 14. He who eates let him not despise him who does not eate and he who does not eate let him not despise him who does eate for God hath received him that 's to say he who believes let him not check him who does not believe as he does and he who does not believe let him not blame him who does believe but let each one believe or not believe as he thinks best in the Lord This holy libertie and freedom is the Spirit of God for where the Spirit of God is there is libertie 2. Cor. 3. saies the great Apostle The Lord inspire to our Parliament that now sitâ— vpon a perfect and new settlement of Gouvernment and Religion to follow the footsteps of our first renowned Reformers to enact that there may be no other Rule of faith but that which we received from our Reformers and which is laid down for vs in the 39 Articles of the Church of England that is Scripture as each one best vnderstands it without regarding the judgment sense or interpretation of any but the pure Word of God as we vnderstand it and to enact Penal Laws against any so bold and vncharitable as to censure or blame the Tenets of any Congregation be it Lutheranism Presbyterie Arianism Judaism or Paganism or any Doctrin whatever that any man of sound judgment thinks in his conscience to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture Three things make me hope that this Treatise will be wellcom to the well inclined and pious Reader of our Reformed Church first that there is not one author quoted in this booke but our own Doctors learned and godly Children of the Reformation and this J observe that my Reader may know ther 's not a Jot of any Doctrin heer but what is of the Reformation and also advertise our Writers and Schoole men how much they discredit our Reformed Church by makeing so much vse of Popish Drs and Bookes in their Writings as if wee had not great and learned men of our own if wee looke into our Bishops and Ministers libraries wee shall meet but books either of confessedly Papists or strongly suspected of Popery and you shall hardly
he is convinc't its better that Calvinism embraces it Then again he reads the works of Arius and convinc't by the energie of his argumentâ— and texts of Scripture produced by him may alter his judgment and become an Arian Wherin can you say does this man transgress against the Doctrin or principles of the Reformation Does he forsake the Reformation because he forsakes Lutheranism for Calvinism No sure for Calvinism is as much of the Reformation as the other Is not Protestancy as much the Doctrin of the Reformation as Presbyterie tho he changes therefore one for the other he still holds the Doctrin of the Reformation Is not the Doctrin of the Reformation Scripture not as Protestants onely or Presbyterians onely interpret it but as any Congregation or man of sound judgment holds it It is therefore evident that according the Doctrin and principles of the Reformation he may with a safe conscience change Religions and be to day of one to morrow of an other vntill he runs all ouer Point me out any Congregation the obstinat Papists excepted who will dare say I cannot live with a safe conscience in any other Congregation but in it self all other Congregations will laugh at it Why then may not I lawfully forsake any Congregation and pass to an other And be in England a Protestant in Germany a Lutheran in Hungarie an Antitrinitarian or Socinian Ismael It 's against the grain of mans reason to believe that we can with a safe conscience change Religions as you say If you be a Protestant and you judge it to be the true Religion you are bound to stick to it neveâ— to change it Isaac If I did discourse with a Papist I would not wonder he should say it against the gâ—ain of mans reason tâ— believe it lawfull but I admire thaâ— a Child of the Reformation be he oâ— what Congregation he will should bâ— so ignorant of his principles as to saâ— a man cannot change Religions wheâ— he please nor do I vndertake to provâ— against the Papist that this is lawfull but I vndertake to prove it lawfull against any Reformed Child or forâ— him to deny the principles of the Râ—formation Is it against reason thâ— a man may read to day Scripture â— the Lutherans interpretation vpon iâ— like it very well that he shoulâ— in this case embrace that Religion Is it against the graine of mans reasoâ— that this same man should next yearâ— afterwards hit vpon Calvins workâ— vpon Scripture and after better consideration think his Doctrin to surpass that of Luther could not he then being obliged to choose the best forsake Lutheranism and stick to Calvinism And is it against mans reason that he in following years may meet other bookes of Arians Socinians c. do the like Have not we many examples of his in our best most renowned Reformers Did not Ochinus that great light says B. Bale in whose presence England was happie reading Scripture judge the Reformation to be better then Popery of a Capuchin fryar became à Reformed after som years reading Scripture he judged Judaism to be better than the Reformation became a Jew Did not Martin Bacer one of our first Reformers of England composers of our lyturgie reading Scripture judge Lutheranism to be better than Popery of a DominicaÌ„ fryar became a Lutheran soon after reading Scripture he judged Zuinglianism to be better than Lutheranism became a Zuinglian not long after he became a Lutheran again as he confesses forsooke Lutheranism the second time and returned again to Zuinglianism as Sklusser says Did not Cranmer one of our firâ—t Reformers also of England composers of the 39. Articles a wise and Religious man profess Popery iâ— Henry the VIII time and compose â— book in defence of Real presence theâ— in Edward the VI. time vpon betteâ— consideration be professed Zuinglianism and writ a book against Real prâ—sence then again in Queen Mary'â— raign being sentenc'd to death he declared for Popery but seeing his recantation could not preserve his life he renounced Popery and dyed a Zuinglian I would tyre your patience iâ— reading myne in relating the number of our prime and most renowneâ— as well first Reformers as Learneâ— Doctors who without any scruple chaÌ„â—ed severall times their Religions noâ— in te Principles of our Reformatioâ— ought they to be blamed for when our Rule of faith is Scripture as witâ— the assistance of Gods spirit we vnderstand it who doubts but we may tâ— day judge sincerely Luther's sense of iâ— to be true to morrow we may reaâ— with more attention judge Ariâ—â— his sense to be true next day that oâ— Calvin so of the rest And do noâ— think but that we have in England many Abettors of this Doctrin alas how many Bishops Deans and rich ParsoÌ„s do we know haue we known who were Zealous Presbyterians and declared enemies of Protestancie in our Gratious Soueraign's exile and no sooner was he restored had Bishopricks and Ecclesiastical dignities to be giuen but they became stiff Protestants Observe the difference Betwixt the Papists and vs if of a Papist you becom of any other Congregation the Popish Church excommunicats you thou art Lookt vpon as an Heretic Apostat a strayd sheep they will not admit you to their communion or lyturgy nay could they well auoid you they would neuer admit you to their Companie and why Because they are fondly perswaded their own is the only true Religion and all others to be synagogues of Satan and if any of vs will become a Papist he must first abiure his former Profession but if of a Protestant you should become a Presbyterian a Lutheran Quaker or of any other of our Societies you are neuer Looked vpon to be a jot the worse for it we are not a Whit scandalized at such changeâ— which we daily see and it is an â— speakable blessing with what accoâ— vnity and charitie you may sâ— at our lyturgie communion the Prâ—testant Presbyterian Anabaptisâ— Socinian and Hugonot all praysiâ— the Lord in one Congregation in oâ— Churches none bid out of the Churcâ— none excommunicated no previoâ— abjuration required of their formâ— Tenets ther 's nothing more fâ—quent among vs then to go to tâ— Protestant Lyturgy in the morninâ— in the euening to the Presbyteriâ— especially if our interest or conâ—nieÌ„cie requires it Can there be a mâ— convincing proofe that we esteâ— it all alike what Religion Tenâ— we profess let a Lutheran go â— France alas hee 'l neuer stick toâ— to the Hugonots meeting and seruice let a Protestant go to Germany heâ— go as cheerfully to the Lutheraâ— Church as in England to the Prâ—testant let a Hugonot or Presbyteriaâ— go to Hungary or Poland he is weâ—com to the Antitrinitarians Socâ—nians and when any of them returâ— home hee 'l be as before Ismael But can you prove this Doctrin by the testimony of
commonly believed by the Protestans and Popish Church we believe in Jesus Christ the son of God of one and the same substance and nature with the Father they believe in a Jesus Christ son of God but of a distinct and different nature and substance from the Father Isaac Pish that 's but a nicetie believe what you please and what you vndestand by Scripture to be true and have charitie Ismael I confess you have puzzled but yet not wholy convinced me were I but perswaded that what you have discoursed is truly the Doctrin of the reformation J would cheerfully embrace it and J will be better informed by your self but not tyre your patience we will meet again and pursue our Discours vpon this subject II. DIALOGUE ISMAEL Reflecting in my solitude vpon your last discours J find it bottom'd vpon a fals principle for you suppose that what euer Doctrin is of Luther Calvin or any of our Learned Drs Synods Parliaments or Congregations is the Doctrin of the Reformation and may without any more proof or scruple be believed by any Reformed Child who but sees this is ridiculous to fasten the Doctrin and absurd opinions of each particular Dr or Congregation vpon the whole body this is the vncharitable and vnreasonable art of the Papists who keep a great coyl with som exorbitaÌ„t opinions of Luther and Calvin and would perswade their Proselyts they are the Tenets of the Reformation wheras the Reformation disclaims those opinions as much as the Pope does and they do not poore people observe how many absurd and scandalous Doctrins we meet in their Casuists and Divins which when we reproach them with they answer it s not the Doctrin of their Church but of som particular Drs as if we might not with as much justice as they answer the same Isaac Your reflection is good and my discours will fall to ground if I do not prove that principle which will be no hard task Let vs imagin we are heere a full synod of Protestants Presbyterians Hugonots Lutherans Antitrinitarians Anabaptists Quakers and of all and each of our Congregations our Reformation is not any of these Congregations with an exclusion of the rest but all of them ioyntly for whatsoeuer Congregation would say it self alone is the Reformation and no other would be hiss'd at by the rest and iustly because that our Reformation imports two points essentialâ—y first a Profession of Christianitie according the Rule of the Word of God and a detestation or abjuration of Popish Errors and none of these Congregations but does both Ismael I know som of these Pharisee like despise others and Looke upon them not as Refâ—rmed but as putrid members but the Lord forbid I should be so deuoid of charitie I see no just challenge any can have to the Title of Reformation which all haue not Isaac Let vs ask this synod by what Rule of faith does the Reformation walk what must a man believe for to be a true Reformed Protestants will say that Scripture and Apostolical Tradition but Protestants say of Papists and Presbyterians and Anabaptists say of Protestants that many human inventions are obtruded upon vs as Apostolical Traditions that we have no way to discern the one from the other and conâ—â—quently Tradition as being an vnknown thing vnto vs cannot be our Rule others will say that Scripture and the indubitable consequences out of it is our Rule all will grant this but then enters the Controversie if the consequences of Lutherans be such and if the consequences of Presbyterians be indubitable out of Scripture and each Congregation will say that their peculiar Tenets are indubitable consequences out of Scripture and the rest must allow it to be true or deny such a Congregation to be of the Reformation Others will say that Scripture and the four first General Councils with the Apostles and Athanasius's Creeds are our Rule of faith but most of the assembly will no more admit the four first than the subsequent Councils nor Athanasius his Creed more than that of Trent nor will the Quakers Socinians and others value the Apostles Creed But there is none of all the Assembly who will not admit Scripture that 's the pure written word of God to be a sacred and full Rule of faith because it s replenisht with Divin light and all Heavenly instruction necessarie for our saluation and such as ad as a part of our Rule of faith the Apostles or Athanasius his Creeds or the four first General Councils they will confess that all they containe is expressed in Gods written word and are but a plainer or more distinct expression or declaration of the Contents of Scripture Ismael Truly I must grant you this that I have been often present at severall discourses of Protestants with Papists and never yet could I heare a Protestant make Councils Tradition or any thing els the Test of their discours but onely scripture not but that I could heare them say and pretend in their discourses that Apostolical Tradition and the four first Councils were for them against Popery but still their main strength and vltimat refuge was Scripture for when ever they harp vpon that string of Tradition and Councils the Papists are visibly too hard for them and then they run to Scripture than which there is no plus vltra I have been also often at severall discourses betwixt Protestans Presbyterians and our brethren of other Congregations and have observed that the Protestant for to defend his lyturgie Rites and Ceremonies of the Church of England and her Episcopacy against the others could never defend himself by scripture alone and placed his main strength against them in Tradition Primitive Councils and ancient Fathers all which the others rejected and reproached the Protestant with Popery for making vse of that weapon that if thy would stick to those Principles as their Rule of faith they must admit many Tenets of Popery which they disavow that nothing but scripture is a sufficient warrant and Rule of faith And I find by all I could ever well vnderstand that its the General apprehension and belief of all the Reformation that Scripture abundantly contains all we are obliged to believe and is our sole and adequat Rule of faith and that our recours to Tradition Councils Fathers c. are but shifts of some of our Drs. who being Non plust in their particular engagements and Sophistries patch the incoherencie of their discours with these raggs of Popery Isaac I commend your ingenuity but not that heate which transports you to check our Drs for their glosses and particular Doctrins vpon Scripture which as the Manna relisht of all sorts of Victuals which the Eaterâ— fancied admits several senses according the different spirits and measure of light that God gives to the Reader and it is vndoubtedly the the Spirit of the Reformation to follow what sense of it he likes best and not to check others for following this or that as
they please Lutherans Protestants Presbyterians c. have all for their Rule of faith Scripture which each of them interprets in a different sense Luther for the Real Protestants for the Figurative Presence Protestants for Episcopacy Presbyterians against it and so of others and tho each esteems his own sense to be the best yet none is so bold as to say the others may not be saved in their own sense of it or deny them to be true Children of the Reformation nay that Venerable Synod of Charenton as I quoted aboue has declared that the Lutherans tho opposit to them in their chief Tenets are their beloved Brethren and have nothing Idolatrous or superstitious in their manner of Divin worship the fundamental reason of all this is that our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it Ismael I grant all your discourse as to this particular for its certain Lutherans will not admit Scripture as interpreted by Protestants but as interpreted by themselves and so of each other Congregation Isaac If you admit our Rule is Scripture as each vnderstands it then you must grant that our Doctrin of the Reformation is whateuer Doctrin each Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture and from this it appears plainly that my Principle wherat you bogl'd is true That whateuer Doctrin is professed by any of our Congregations Synods Parliaments Drs. or particular Dr. of our Reformation is to be truly reputed and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation which Principle being true my discourse of yesterday is vndeniable that you may change religions as often as you please and remain still a true Reformed Child Ismael But you haue said that not only the Doctrin of each Congregation and Synod is the Doctrin of the Reformation but also whateuer any one particular Doctor teachs and this seems to be very absurd Isaac It 's not so absurd as it is true I 'l prove by the Principles of our Reformed Church by the testimonies of our most Learned and Best Drs. and Reformers and by reason and experience that the Doctrin of any particular Doctor among vs has as much right to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation as Protestancy Presbytery or Lutheranism for what is Lutheranism but the judgment of Luther a particular Dr against the whole Church of Rome what is Calvinism but what Calvin a particular Dr judged to be the sense of Scripture against that same Church what is Quakery but honest Naylor's godly and pious sentiments vpon Scripture It s vndeniably the Principle of our Reformed Church that our Rule of faith is Scripture as interpreted not only by Synods or Congregations but by any Person of sound judgment in the Church No Congregation or Synod is to vs a Rule of faith because all are fallible but Gods Written Word as each one vnderstands it and if wee do not like the sense of it delivered by any Council Synod or Congregation wee may safely deny it therefore our great Calvin saies and proues with great energy of Scripture and reason that we are not obliged to the Decisions and Doctrin of any Council Synod or Congregation if after hauing examined Scripture we do not find their interpretation and sense of it is conformable to the Word of God Let Synods and Congregations say what they will if any particular Doctor thinks his own privat sense of it to be better he may stick to it against them all and be a good true Child of the Reformation as Arminius in Holland did withstand the Synods of Dordreet and Delpht as Luther and Calvin did against Rome I will be free saies our vnparalleld Proto-Apostle Luther I wil◠not submit my self to the authority of Councils Church Drs Vniuersities or Fathers but will teach and preach whateuer I think to be true Did ever any Apostle speake with more courage and the blessed man acted with no less he knew full well the whole Stream of antiquity Drs Fathers and Councils were against him as he confesses himself and dit not care a rus◠for them all Lay aside saies he ◠arms of Orthodox antiquity of School◠of Diuinity authority of Fathers Councils Popes and consent of ages we receiue nothing but Scripture but s◠that we must haue the authority of interpreting it Nor was it only Luther and Calvin spoke thus but all our first blessed Reformers and why because our Rule of faith is Scripture not a interpreted by the Church of England France will not admit it nor as interpreted by the Quakers the Anabaptists and Independents will not heare it nor as interpreted by Luther Calvin rejects it nor as interpreted by Calvin Thorndic and Bramhal will not yield to it nor will Stillingfleet stand to their interpretation nor others to that of Stillingfleet Finally our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by any but as each Congregation Synod particular Dr or man of sound judgment interprets it and consequently what ever Doctrin any man of sound judgment judges to be of Scripture is to be esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation and you may safely believe it if you like it and remain still as truely a Reformed Child as the proudest Protestant of England Ismael Can you prove that our Rule of faith is Scripture as any particular Dr or person of sound judgment vnderstands it Isaac Behold how convincingly first wee have heard Luther quoted but now say We receive nothing but Scripture but so as that we must have the authority for t◠interpret it hear him again Th◠Governors and Pastors haver powe t◠teach but the sheep must give thei◠judgment whether they propose the voy◠of Christ or of strangers And again Christ has taken from the Bishops Councils and Pastors the right of judging of Doctrin and given it to all Christians i◠General and the Rule is Scripture ◠each one will think fit to interpret i◠And consequently to this wee hav◠heard him say aboue I will be fi◠and will not submit to Drs Councils ◠Pastors but will teach whatever think to be true Barlow The Apostles have given to each particular t◠Right and power of interpreting a◠judging by his inward spirit what i◠True its needless that either man ◠Angel Pope or Council should instru◠you the spirit working in the heart an◠Scripture are to each particular person mo◠assured interpreters Bilson Bishop o◠Wincester saies the same The peopl◠must be discerners and judges of wha◠is taught Our Religion has no othe◠Rule of faith saies our French Reformation by the mouth of Dumoulin Drelincourt and the holy Synod of Charenton but the Written Word of God as interpreted by vs. Lastly saies the Church of England in the 6th Art of their 39. We have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstāds it and what is proved by it and again
king himself nor any other did doubt of their Right and now most of our Congregations do absolutly deny any Right in our Clergy to those Rents because they are no Clergy yet none will be so bold as to accuse Henry the VIII of sacriledge for hauing taken the Church Liuings from them for to put them to better vse And why should wee dare say our king would commit any for depriving our Clergy of those Rents believe he can lawfully do it or believe he can not you 'l be still a good Child of the Reformation Believe what you please Ismael This is a ticklish point let 's leaue it to the consideration of our wise and prudent Parliament and be pleased to answer to my doubt how can wee live in peace and tranquillitie in Religion if our Rule of faith be Scripture as each one vnderstands it I remember a discourse started in the house of Lords not many yeares agon by his Grace the Duke of Buckingam he desired to know what was it to be a Protestant wherin did Protestancy properly consist the Bishops who were present looked one vpon an other and whether they feared the difficultie of the question or that for modesty's sake each expected to hear an other speake firstâ— they stood sylent for a whyle at last the yce was broken by one others followed but hardly any two agreed and all that the Duke could gather out of their several answers was that our Rule of faith was Scripture as each one vndestood it and Protestancy nothing but Scripture as interpreted by the Parliament and Church of England whervpon he concluded Wee are these hundred yeares very busy for to settle Religion and for ought I perceive wee are as vnsettled now as at the beginning And truly he had great reason for Religion and faith is nothing else but that sense of Scripture which each Person of sound judgment vnderstands and as it 's impossible wee should all jump and agree in one sense and meaning of the text so its impossible wee shall euer be settled and agree in Religion Isaac The reason of our vnsettlement hitherto and at present is the violent efforts what by persecutions Acts of Parliaments and other oppressions what by Invectives intrigues and cabals of the Church of England to draw all to be Protestants of the Presbyterians to make vs deny Episcopacy and of each other Congregation to force vs to their respective Tenets and whylst this constraint and severity is vsed against mens consciences it s in vain to expect peace or settlement in our Reformed Church but let vs follow our Rule of faith let cach one believe as in his conscience he best vnderstands Scripture let vs all believe what wee please and be permitted so to do and wee shall without doubt enjoy perfect peace and Tranquillity believe you Figurative Presence if you will let the Lutheran believe his Real Presence if he likes it and let me believe no Presence at all if I judge ther 's none why will not you permit me to follow that Rule of faith which the whole Reformation euen the Church of England gives me in her 39. Articles Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it To say wee can neuer have settlement in Religion whylst this arbitrary interpretation of Scripture is permitted is to speake like a Papist this the Pope and Papists said to our first blessed Reformers and the Popish Church saies this day to vs that wee ought to submit our judgments to the Church and Councils that wee ought not to believe what sense wee think to be true but what the Pope and Councils propose vnto vs and if Luther and our other Reformers did not do ill in follwing their own sense and interpretation of Scripture against all the world why do you blame me or any other for following their example Ismael When you speake of our Reformation and Congregations I heare you reckon the Arians Socinians and Antitrinitarians among them sure you do not belieue they or such like ancient condemned hereticks were of the Reformation for wee Protestants do believe the Mystery of the Trinity against them and will never own them to be our Brethren Isaac And do not you believe Episcopacy against the Presbyterians som Canonical Books against the Lutherans Supremacy against the Quakers and Infants Baptism against the Anabaptists and yet you own them as your Brethren and godly Congregations of the Reformation or if you will deny them they will also scorn you and say they are more of the Reformation than you are and why will not you own the Arians c. as your Brethren tho you believe the Trinitie against them you say they are old condemn'd Heretiks and does this language becom a Child of the Reformed Church by whom were they condemn'd was it not by the Popish Church which also condemns vs and saies wee are as much Hereticks as they and as wee ought not to be so called and judge the Pope and Councils sentence against vs to be bold vncharitable and injust so wee must say of the Arians Pelagians and others condemn'd by them You saie Protestants will never own them to be their Brethren God forbid the Protestant Church should be so vncharitable to their fellow Christians and so injust to themselves B. Morton as I cited in my first Dialogue as learned a man aâ— the Church of England bred saies the Arian Church is a true Church and will say no less of the others but what need wee the testimonie of any for what reason so convincingly proves They who walk by one and the same Rule of faith are of one and the same Religion therefore Lutherans Protestants Presbyterians and Independents do esteem themselves to be of the same faith and Religion because they all have the same Rule which is Scripture â— each Congregation vnderstands it also notwithstanding the difference and varietie of Congregations in Popery they hold all but one faith as they say because they have alâ— but one Rule of their beliefe whicâ— is their infallible Pope and Church but it 's evident that those which yoâ— call Ancient condemned Hereticks have one and the same Rule of faith with our Reformation for ours is Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it without any obligation of holding the sense of it delivered by Pope Church Councils or any other therefore our first blessed Reformers did not care what sense of it the Church or Pope did hold when they began to preach the purity of the Ghospel but each of them interpreted it as he thought fit in the Lord and so purged the Church of many Errors This is the very self same Rule of faith which Arians Pelagians Nestorians and others peremptorily condemned by Rome as Hereticks did follow and walk by each of them read and interpreted Scripture preached and believed what sense of it they tought to be true tho they knew it was against the Doctrin of the Church looking on
reverent regard for the sense and interpretation of it given by the Primitive ages Fathers and Councils and that wee prefer before the privat interpretations of particular Persons Isaac And just so saied the Popish Church to Luther and our first blessed Reformers and if that had been well dâ—n wee should have had neither Protestancy nor any other Reformation but you confess at least that the Rule of faith in all other Congregations is but Scripture as each Person vnderstands it and each person may consequently believe his own sense of it and deny the sense of any other if he does not like it then you must confess that in all other Congregations except the Church of England any Reformed Child may believe any sense and Doctrin which any Person of sound judgment judges to be Scripture if himself likes it tho all the rest of the world may think it naught and wheras you cannot deny but that all and each Dr. quoted by me for those Tenets which you call blasphemies were sound and able judgments you must confess that it is a necessarie sequele out of their Rule of faith that in all other Congregations they may piously and safely believe all those Tenets and be still true Children of the Reformation Ismael J confess if they speake coherently and stand to their Principles they may believe them safely but as J hate those blasphemous Tenets I abhorr and detest also that Principle and Rule of faith of other Congregations from which such Tenets are vnavoidable sequeles Isaac Good Ismael you forget what you have hitherto all along avowed and you are quite astray from the Doctrin of the Reformation you have often granted me that our Rule of faith is Scripture not as this or that Congregation Doctor or Church but as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and now you tell me you hate and detest that Rule because that out of it there follow strange and blasphemous Tenets you say the sense and interpretation of the primitive ages Church and Fathers must be prefered before the interpretation of any privat Person or Congregation and what think you of our whole Reformation and particularly of our 39. Articles of the Church of England which allow no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it what say you of Luther Calvin Beza and the rest of our first Reformers who preferred their own privat sense and interpretation of Scripture before that of the whole Church what say you to the Presbyterians who preferr their own sense and interpretation of the Bible before that of the Church of England what say you of all the Congregations of the Reformed Church each one of which holds its sense and Doctrin of Scripture different from all the rest I grant there ought to be a respect for the judgment and interpretation of the Text given by the Primitive Church and Fathers but if a Doctor or man of sound judgment replenisht with Gods Spirit reades Scripture with an humble heart and pure intention and judges by it that Bygamy is lawfull that there is no Mystery of three Persons in one Divin Nature that Christ despaired on the Cross c. tho these Doctrins be quite against the judgment of Fathers Church and Councils he may believe them and be still a true Reformed Child because he follows our Rule of faith and if he must deny these Articles because others decry them then he must go against his own judgement and conscience for to conform himself to them and his Rule of faith must not be scripture as each man of sound judgment vnderstands it but as the primitive Ages Church and Councils vnderstand it and this is Popery Ismael Prethy friend Jsaac let 's give ouer all that your discourse drives at by what J can perceive is either to beate me from the Reformation by shewing me the absurdity of its Rule of faith or oblige me to believe scandalous and blasphemous Tenets as necessary sequeles out of that Rule I am à Child of the Reformation and never will be otherwise Isaac The Lord who is the Searcher of hearts knows you misconster my intentions how can you say I inteÌ„d to beate you from the Reformation do not J insist and persuade you to stick fast to its Rule of faith and acknowledge no other but Scripture as you vnderstand it how can you say J oblige you to believe fals and scandalous Tenets to the contrary J advise you not to believe them if you judge by scripture they are fals and scandalous what my discourse drives at is that you should not censure blame or call any Doctrin blasphemous scandalous fals or heretical Popery excepted for tho you judge by Scripture it is not true an other will judge it to be the true sense and Doctrin of the Text and if he does he may with a safe conscience believe it and ought not to be blamed by you or any other for believing it if you do not like that Doctrin do not believe it but let the other believe as he judges by Scripture he may and let every tub stand on its own bottom Ismael Once more I besech you give ouer J will not discourse any more with you Isaac Nay Deare Ismael I see you are troubled and I will not leaue you in that perplexitie be pleased to listen to three points I will propose vnto you and you 'l not miss to find satisfaction in either of them Ismael Let 's heare them Isaac Will you believe Scripture as it is interpreted and in that sense which the Church Councils and Fathers propound vnto you Ismael J will not be obliged to that for I may judge by Scripture that sense and interpretation of it to be fals and erroneous and I will not be obliged to believe any thing against my judgment and conscience that is Popery Isaac That 's well in so much you follow the footsteps of Luther Calvin and our other fist Reformers who would not believe what the Church believed in their tyme nor regarded not what the Papists alleadged out of the Councils and Fathers against them because they held themselves obliged to believe Scripture as they vnderstood it and not as it was vndestood by others Will you then believe Scripture in that sense and interpretation which yourself judges to be true tho the Church Councils and all other Congregations judge it to be fals and erroneous and give the like libertie to all others Ismael That 's dangerous for it would follow that any man might believe without check or blame the greatest blasphemies imaginable if he judges them to be the sense of the Text. Isaac Why then since that the first does not please you for feare of constraining your judgment Papist-like and the second displeases you for the scope it gives for to believe any thing or nothing your best way will be to lay Scripture asyde wheras Christ has forgot or neglected to appoint vs som
assured means for to know what sense of it he would have vs believe Ismael And what Religion shall J profess if J lay Scripture asyde Isaac The same which now you have by Scripture that 's to say whatever you judge to be the true Worship of God be sure to profess a reverence for Scripture and seem to believe its the Word of God least you may scandalize weake Brethren pretend allwaies that your sentiments are grounded vpon the Text but betwixt you and God believe whatever you think to be true worship God as you-judge he is to be worshipt and that 's the way to liue in peace do you think but that those Noble Spirits which they call the Wits of England have a good Religion in publick they speake reverently of the Bible but we know what they have and do declare in their privat discourses that it s but a Romance or meer fiction Do you think but that there was a Religion in England before it saw Gregori's Emissaries Austin and his Monks what need therefore of a Bible for to have Religion Were not the Swinfeldians a religious Congregation and of the Reformation to yet they cared not for Scripture but grounded their belief vpon Gods inspiration and inward speech to the heart Ismael If I were not well acquainted with you and had not very convincing proofes and signal testimonies of your pietie solid Religiosity and Christianity I would judge you by this last peece of your discourse to be an impious Atheist or Pagan and J wonder that so good a Christian as I know you to be should speake so irrevently of the Bible and so much in commendation of Paganism as you do There was indeed a Religion in England before they knew what Scripture was but that Religion was Paganism which Austin and his Companions happily banisht from our Land Isaac Happily do you call an exchange of Paganism for Popery introduced by Austin a Happiness is it not generally believed in our Reformation and most strongly proved of late by that incomparable Wit and Pen-man Doctor Stillingfleet that Popery has as much of Idolatry as Paganism our land therefore had in Paganism as good a Religion as it received by Austin in Popery does not this our noble Champion and most of the Scribes of the Church of England teach that Popery is a saving Religion that we may be saued in the Church of Rome if Popery not withstanding it be Idolatrie as they say be a saving Religion how can they deny but that Paganism is also a saving Religion what need had our Forefathers therefore to abandon Paganism why was it not left in the land Ismael Whatever may be said of Popery it cannot be denied but that Christianity is better than Paganism the expulsion therefore of Paganism by Austin was a Happiness because by it Christianity was introduced and establisht in our Kingdom Isaac Alas Ismael if England had bin as well informed of the merit of Paganism when first Christianity was preached it had never exchanged the one for the other Ismael What not Paganism which adored a Multitude of Gods for Christianity which adores but one Not Paganism which adored Iupiter Saturn Venus c. who were Deuils and Evil Spirits or wicked Men who caused themselves to be adored for Christianity which adores the onely true immortal and eternal Deytie Isaac You speake with the vulgar sort and believe as you have bin instructed by your Ancestors I confess the Apostles and Ancient Doctors of Christianity do teach that the Gods of the Gentils were Deuils or Euil Spirits I confess also all the Christian World since the first preaching of the Ghospell was so perswaded grounded vpon Scripture which in several places saies the Gods of the Gentils were Deuds grounded vpon the Doctrin of the Apostles and their Successors the Fathers of the Church and the World being perswaded by the Apostles by the Doctors Fathers and Preachers of Christianity that the Gods which the Pagans adored were but Deuils which by sorceries and marvelous works deceiued mankind and made themselves to be adored as Gods all men were ashamed to adore but Deuils forsooke Paganism and embraced Christianity And all was but a meer Policy of Popery to cast so much dirt and calumnie vpon Paganism and make its Gods but Deuils for to introduce and establish Christianity Dr. Stillingfleet in his Charge of Idolatry against the Chuâ—ch of Rome Pag. 40. and 41. saies plainly that the Pagans are charged with more than they were guilty of page 7. saies that Iupiter adored by the Pagans was so farr from being an Arch-Devil in the opinion of S. Paul that he was the tru God blessed for ever more that the Pagans adored but one suprem and Omnipotent God which they called Jupiter and which they did believe to be neither a Devil nor a Man but a true and the first and chiefest of the Gods and that the rest of the Gods which they adored they looked vpon them as vpon Inferior Deyties and gave them no other adoration but such as the Papists give to their Saints If therefore the Pagans adored the tru God under the name of Jupiter and the other Gods but as inferior Deyties as the Papists do their Saints was it not injustly don by the Ancient Fathers and Teachers of Christianity to have imposed vpon the World and made vs believe the Pagans adored but Devils and Evil Spirits have not the Pagans Ryght and justice on their syde for to pleade before our wyse and religious Parliament that Paganism may be restored or at least tolerated and Iupiter with the rest of the Gods may be adored as formerly they were first because Paganism is no more Jdolatry than Popery as Dr Stillinfleet Mr Burnet and other Reformed Writers prove convincingly secondly because that Paganism having bin banisht out of our Land vpon the fals information of our first Teachers that it was an Adoration of Devils or Evil Spirits and wicked debaucht Men who by counterfeited wonders and cheate gained the Peoples adoration since that Dr Stillingfleet Mr. Burnet and other Reformed Writers will make it out that the Pagans adored no Devils but One tru Omnipotent suprem God blessed evermore which they called Iupiter and the rest of the Gods as inferior Deities as Papists do their Saints and will prove that the Pagans were charged by the first DDrs of Christianity and by all our Ancestors with more than they were guilty of why should not Paganism be restored again to the Land and heard to speake for itsselfe and Dr Stillingfleet and his zealous companions be lycenc't to pleade for them and for holy Iupiter so fouly misrepresented by Antiquity as to be believed an Arch-Devil whom Dr. Stillingfleet will prove to have bin a tru God blessed for ever more Ismael The more J discourse with you the more J am perplexed in mind J bid you a Dieu and do confess J carry with me from your discourse a dislike of what