be_v insufficient_a for_o remove_v of_o offence_n unless_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n of_o which_o both_o of_o they_o be_v member_n shall_v intervene_v the_o doctor_n repli_v that_o beside_o exhortation_n protestation_n and_o non-communion_n they_o professo_fw-la themselves_z ever_o to_o submit_v and_o to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n inst_z this_o profession_n of_o submission_n be_v either_o voluntary_a depend_v of_o their_o own_o free_a will_n or_o by_o necessity_n of_o obligation_n whereunto_o they_o be_v subject_a by_o law_n if_o they_o choose_v the_o first_o it_o be_v no_o more_o than_o a_o number_n of_o waterman_n tinker_n and_o cobbler_n may_v do_v of_o them-selve_n by_o a_o particular_a convention_n 2._o it_o be_v not_o juris_fw-la divini_fw-la as_o they_o pretend_v their_o government_n to_o be_v but_o humani_fw-la depend_v of_o their_o own_o fancy_n and_o to_o profess_v themselves_o to_o be_v willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n it_o be_v not_o at_o all_o to_o the_o purpose_n but_o most_o absurd_a 1._o for_o that_o power_n of_o the_o clvill_n magistrate_n be_v not_o intrinsical_v but_o extrinsecall_v unto_o the_o church_n but_o we_o speak_v only_o of_o the_o power_n that_o be_v intrinsical_v and_o proper_a to_o the_o church_n and_o so_o must_v our_o brethren_n also_o if_o they_o will_v speak_v rational_o 2._o in_o so_o do_v they_o make_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n judge_n of_o ecclesiastical_a controversy_n in_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n and_o head_n of_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n which_o can_v hold_v when_o he_o be_v a_o infidel_n a_o antichristian_a etc._n etc._n whereof_o see_v more_o in_o the_o commissioner_n answer_v and_o in_o the_o observation_n and_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n 3._o in_o so_o do_v you_o make_v the_o churcle_n power_n subordinate_a to_o civil_a power_n which_o can_v be_v for_o subordination_n be_v betwixt_o thing_n of_o the_o same_o kind_n or_o sort_n but_o such_o be_v not_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a power_n which_o be_v opposite_a or_o rather_o contradistinguish_v or_o difference_v one_o from_o another_o as_o thing_n destinate_a to_o or_o different_a end_n the_o one_o spiritual_a and_o the_o othertemporall_a 2._o he_o complain_v that_o the_o commissioner_n call_v they_o these_o of_o the_o separation_n unless_o withal_o they_o express_v they_o mean_v the_o separation_n from_o the_o prolate_v way_n as_o scotland_n and_o england_n now_o do_v answ_n yea_o but_o they_o separate_v themselves_o also_o from_o the_o sacramental_a communion_n of_o all_o christian_a church_n yea_o of_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n of_o the_o world_n and_o if_o it_o be_v true_a what_o we_o have_v read_v in_o the_o letter_n from_o new-england_n from_o the_o communion_n of_o one_o church_n with_o another_o among_o themselves_o 3._o he_o say_v that_o such_o a_o case_n may_v fallout_v among_o we_o with_o swasme_n of_o anabaptist_n and_o antinomian_o answ_n that_o can_v be_v for_o they_o have_v no_o communion_n with_o we_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v excommunicate_v by_o we_o 2._o it_o may_v easy_o fall_v out_o among_o you_o for_o the_o anabaptist_n as_o we_o have_v already_o show_v be_v your_o own_o and_o not_o we_o 4._o he_o say_v that_o the_o commissioner_n suppose_v more_o in_o their_o second_o answer_n viz._n that_o two_o or_o more_o church_n may_v mutual_o prete_a and_o pronounce_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n one_o against_o another_o answ_n this_o doctor_n be_v either_o very_a dull_a in_o not_o conceive_v of_o this_o clear_a and_o solid_a answer_n of_o the_o commissioner_n or_o else_o very_o malicious_a in_o disguise_v of_o it_o for_o the_o commissioner_n argue_v here_o upon_o a_o case_n according_a to_o the_o independenters_n hypothesis_n which_o can_v but_o be_v ordinary_a among_o they_o according_a to_o their_o discipline_n and_o howbeit_o their_o church_n be_v very_o few_o and_o have_v be_v a_o very_a short_a time_n in_o rerum_fw-la natura_fw-la yet_o it_o have_v fall_v out_o among_o they_o in_o new_a england_n and_o they_o have_v have_v the_o like_a case_n in_o the_o netherlands_o according_a to_o their_o own_o relation_n but_o in_o our_o way_n and_o discipline_n it_o can_v fall_v out_o among_o we_o for_o if_o two_o parish_n church_n have_v any_o difference_n they_o submit_v themselves_o both_o to_o the_o colloque_n or_o to_o the_o provincial_n assembly_n if_o two_o provincial_n synod_n or_o assembly_n differ_v the_o nationall_n assembly_n judge_v betwixt_o they_o both_o so_o that_o this_o case_n can_v fall_v out_o among_o we_o and_o it_o be_v a_o practical_a principle_n that_o par_fw-fr in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la since_o neither_o of_o the_o equal_n be_v subject_a one_o to_o the_o other_o and_o such_o be_v all_o parish_n church_n among_o themselves_o class_n among_o themselves_o and_o provincial_n synod_n among_o themselves_o the_o doctor_n by_o a_o doctoral_a power_n jump_v over_o the_o 3._o and_o 4._o answer_v with_o this_o worthy_a and_o most_o laconicke_a reply_n viz._n this_o same_o reply_n sarve_v to_o year_n three_o and_o four_o answer_n which_o whether_o it_o be_v true_o say_v i_o remit_v it_o to_o the_o reader_n judgement_n the_o commissioner_n five_o answer_n be_v by_o what_o probability_n can_v it_o be_v make_v to_o appear_v to_o any_o rational_a man_n and_o indifferent_a mind_n that_o no_o authority_n shall_v be_v as_o valid_a as_o authority_n against_o the_o obstinate_a that_o via_fw-la admonitionis_fw-la and_o requisitionis_fw-la be_v equal_a with_o via_fw-la citationis_fw-la &_o publiea_fw-la authoritatis_fw-la there_o can_v be_v so_o much_o as_o trial_n and_o examination_n of_o the_o offence_n without_o authority_n unless_o the_o party_n be_v willing_a to_o appear_v that_o persuasion_n and_o jurisdiction_n that_o the_o deliver_v over_o to_o satan_n and_o thereby_o strike_v the_o conscience_n with_o the_o terror_n of_o god_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o jesus_n christ_n which_o have_v the_o promise_n of_o a_o special_a and_o strong_a ratification_n in_o heaun_n and_o any_o other_o ecclesiastical_a way_n whatsoever_o which_o must_v be_v inferior_a unto_o this_o and_o depend_v only_o upon_o persuasion_n on_o the_o one_o part_n and_o free_a will_n on_o the_o other_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v like_o efficacious_a no_o man_n will_v say_v but_o in_o civil_a matter_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o have_v ado_n with_o our_o neighbour_n who_o have_v no_o more_o authority_n over_o we_o than_o we_o have_v over_o he_o and_o another_o thing_n to_o have_v to_o do_v with_o civil_a power_n which_o have_v authority_n over_o both_o this_o solution_n i_o have_v write_v over_o in_o the_o commissioner_n own_o word_n because_o it_o be_v so_o significative_a so_o strong_a and_o evident_a that_o it_o dissolve_v all_o the_o frivolous_a reply_v of_o this_o good_a doctor_n the_o doctor_n hence_o suppose_v 1._o that_o there_o be_v no_o authority_n but_o scripture-authority_n by_o scripture-authority_n i_o believe_v he_o mean_v that_o institute_v by_o scripture_n otherways_o scripture_n authority_n be_v the_o excellency_n of_o scripture_n verity_n which_o bind_v we_o to_o believe_v it_o because_o of_o its_o author_n which_o be_v god_n 2._o he_o suppose_v that_o to_o be_v most_o valid_a that_o convince_v and_o conquer_v actus_fw-la elicitos_fw-la the_o mind_n rather_o than_o that_o which_o do_v only_a manacle_n and_o constrain_v â—â—â—us_fw-la imperatos_fw-la the_o outward_a carriage_n then_o make_v his_o quaere_fw-la thus_o be_v the_o way_n of_o admonition_n protestation_n and_o non-communion_n no_o authority_n reply_n but_o here_o the_o doctor_n be_v mighty_o mistake_v both_o in_o his_o authority_n and_o in_o his_o actus_fw-la eliciti_fw-la and_o imperati_fw-la 1._o for_o every_o thing_n that_o be_v say_v in_o scripture_n howbeit_o its_o verity_n be_v ground_v on_o divine_a authority_n yet_o give_v it_o not_o man_n a_o authority_n or_o authoritative_a power_n for_o what_o authoritative_a power_n be_v give_v to_o man_n or_o angel_n by_o those_o word_n in_o the_o beginning_n god_n make_v the_o heaven_n and_o the_o earth_n 2._o neither_o do_v every_o admonition_n in_o scripture_n make_v to_o man_n arm_v they_o with_o authority_n as_o that_o place_n of_o saint_n paul_n whereon_o the_o doctor_n build_v his_o authority_n give_v no_o offence_n for_o it_o command_v not_o a_o authority_n or_o authoritative_a power_n to_o be_v exercise_v but_o a_o act_n of_o obedience_n to_o be_v practise_v item_n no_o public_a power_n or_o authority_n but_o a_o private_a duty_n because_o it_o be_v common_a to_o all_o man_n which_o can_v be_v say_v of_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n likewise_o that_o other_o passage_n better_a a_o millstone_n be_v hang_v about_o one_o neck_n and_o he_o cast_v into_o the_o sea_n then_o to_o offend_v a_o weak_a brother_n item_n that_o we_o be_v better_a not_o to_o eat_v flesh_n then_o to_o offend_v etc._n etc._n all_o this_o be_v say_v by_o divine_a authority_n in_o respect_n
a_o answer_n to_o a_o libel_n entitle_v a_o cool_a conference_n between_o the_o clear_v reformation_n and_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n bring_v together_o by_o a_o well-willer_n to_o both_o wherein_o be_v clear_o refute_v what_o ever_o he_o bring_v against_o the_o reformation_n clear_v most_o humble_o submit_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o honourable_a house_n of_o parliament_n the_o most_o learned_a and_o reverend_a divine_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n by_o adam_n stevart_n amb._n lib._n 5._o de_fw-fr fide_fw-la si_fw-mi taceamus_fw-la consentire_fw-la videbimur_fw-la si_fw-la contendamus_fw-la verendum_fw-la ne_fw-la carnales_fw-la judicemur_fw-la imprint_v at_o london_n 1644._o to_o the_o reader_n courteous_a reader_n i_o pray_v thou_o excuse_v some_o of_o the_o most_o material_a fault_n fall_v out_o partly_o by_o my_o absence_n partly_o by_o a_o accident_n that_o befall_v the_o copy_n and_o to_o correct_v they_o as_o follow_v page_n 3._o line_n 8._o read_v neither_o shall_v he_o have_v fear_v a_o suppression_n of_o his_o book_n p._n 10._o l._n 11._o deal_n all_o that_o parenthesis_n ibid._n p._n l._n 20._o deal_n because_o p._n 11._o l._n 9_o read_v and_o those_o who_o interest_n p._n 16._o l._n 24._o for_o but_o so_o r._n and_o so_o p._n 19_o l._n 26._o r._n for_o it_o be_v 1._o it_o be_v p._n 22._o d._n man_n p._n 25._o l._n 3._o r._n answ_n 1._o ib._n p._n l._n 5._o for_o how_o r._n 2._o how_o ibid._n p._n l._n 8._o after_o the_o word_n communion_n add_v all_o that_o follow_v 3._o either_o this_o well-willer_n pretend_v to_o play_v the_o naturalist_n or_o the_o divine_a if_o the_o naturalist_n he_o know_v not_o well_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o northerly_a wind_n for_o ordinary_o it_o bring_v not_o black_a but_o fair_a weather_n and_o scatter_v the_o cloud_n as_o he_o may_v learn_v of_o all_o naturalist_n ab_fw-la aqualone_fw-it aurum_fw-la from_o the_o north_n come_v gold_n i.e._n golden_a or_o fair_a weather_n job_n 37.22_o the_o north_n wind_n drive_v away_o rain_n prov._n 25.23_o if_o he_o play_v the_o divine_a and_o allude_v to_o scripture_n i_o must_v say_v to_o he_o as_o christ_n say_v to_o the_o jew_n you_o err_v not_o understand_v the_o scripture_n for_o there_o it_o signify_v either_o the_o spirit_n of_o christ_n as_o in_o s_z song_z and_o then_o he_o must_v pray_v with_o the_o church_n a_o wake_v o_o northwind_n and_o come_v thou_o south_n blow_v upon_o my_o garden_n that_o the_o spice_n thereof_o may_v flow_v out_o cant._n 4.16_o or_o god_n people_n who_o be_v northern_a in_o respect_n of_o the_o philistine_n who_o be_v their_o enemy_n so_o we_o must_v be_v god_n people_n and_o the_o independenter_n who_o this_o well-willer_n oppose_v to_o the_o north_n their_o enemy_n or_o the_o babylonian_n who_o be_v septentrional_a or_o northward_o in_o respect_n of_o god_n people_n esay_n 41.25_o and_o so_o he_o esteem_v we_o to_o be_v god_n enemy_n if_o so_o how_o hold_v they_o we_o for_o one_o of_o the_o most_o pure_a church_n but_o what_o ever_o it_o signify_v it_o can_v never_o signify_v the_o church_n of_o scotland_n but_o in_o a_o very_a good_a sense_n pag._n 27._o d._n us_o p._n 28._o for_o heb._n panegr_n r._n as_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o scripture_n heb._n 12.23_o l._n ult_n for_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d r._n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d p._n 29._o l._n 8._o for_o vomit_n r._n you_o vomit_n p._n 29._o l._n 30._o d._n of_o myself_o p._n 43._o l._n 27._o for_o two_o read_v five_o p._n 35._o l._n 29._o after_o the_o word_n narration_n add_v all_o this_o that_o follow_v only_o i_o pray_v the_o reader_n to_o consider_v these_o man_n craft_n in_o go_v about_o to_o sow_v the_o seed_n of_o division_n betwixt_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n &_o the_o orthodox_n church_n in_o make_v the_o world_n to_o believe_v that_o they_o grant_v he_o more_o than_o the_o maxim_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o do_v for_o 1._o they_o tell_v not_o wherein_o 2._o whether_o this_o power_n be_v ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a as_o for_o the_o ecclesiastical_a they_o can_v give_v it_o 1._o it_o be_v only_o a_o ministerial_a power_n to_o serve_v &_o not_o magisterial_a to_o domineer_v with_o or_o to_o be_v give_v away_o by_o proxy_n to_o who_o they_o please_v 2._o if_o they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n any_o power_n what_o can_v it_o be_v be_v it_o to_o preach_v to_o teach_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o excommunicate_v or_o to_o attend_v upon_o the_o sick_a and_o poor_a people_n and_o as_o for_o the_o civil_a it_o be_v not_o they_o but_o his_o majesty_n and_o the_o magistrate_n as_o be_v the_o constant_a tenet_n of_o all_o the_o orthodox_n church_n who_o hold_v the_o civil_a power_n incompatible_a with_o that_o of_o a_o pastor_n or_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o if_o they_o grant_v the_o magistrate_n more_o power_n than_o our_o church_n how_o be_v it_o that_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o king_n patent_n in_o new-england_n for_o nothing_o else_o but_o in_o matter_n of_o state_n or_o civil_a government_n and_o god_n word_n only_o in_o church_n government_n 4._o he_o and_o they_o also_o hold_v the_o same_o rule_n in_o old-england_n and_o therefore_o i_o pray_v all_o man_n only_o to_o consider_v if_o this_o be_v not_o rather_o a_o gull_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n than_o a_o proof_n of_o what_o they_o say_v 5._o i_o wish_v he_o to_o answer_v whether_o new-england_n depend_v of_o old-england_n and_o whether_o they_o think_v the_o king_n and_o parliament_n have_v power_n to_o change_v religion_n and_o church_n government_n there_o 6._o whether_o they_o both_o have_v power_n to_o do_v the_o same_o here_o against_o god_n word_n 7._o whether_o the_o parliament_n have_v do_v well_o or_o not_o in_o call_v of_o this_o assembly_n of_o divine_n to_o judge_v of_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o for_o we_o the_o constant_a opinion_n of_o all_o our_o church_n be_v that_o all_o civil_a power_n belong_v only_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o none_o at_o all_o to_o the_o church_n 2._o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v a_o extrinsecall_n executive_a power_n about_o religion_n to_o maintain_v and_o reform_v it_o in_o case_n of_o corruption_n and_o that_o according_a to_o the_o precedent_n in_o scripture_n neither_o do_v ever_o any_o good_a christian_a prince_n assume_v any_o more_o to_o himself_o neither_o do_v it_o any_o way_n lessen_v his_o power_n that_o it_o be_v only_o extrinsecall_v for_o to_o be_v intrinsical_n or_o extrinsecall_v signify_v not_o any_o quantity_n of_o great_a or_o lesser_a power_n but_o only_o the_o manner_n thereof_o for_o a_o extrinsecall_a power_n and_o influence_n may_v be_v great_a than_o a_o intrinsical_v as_o appear_v in_o that_o of_o the_o efficient_a and_o material_a cause_n for_o the_o first_o be_v only_o active_a and_o yet_o extrinsecall_v but_o the_o second_o mere_o passive_a without_o any_o action_n or_o efficacy_n at_o all_o and_o yet_o intrinsical_v perlegi_fw-la tractatum_fw-la hunc_fw-la in_fw-la quo_fw-la nihil_fw-la reperio_fw-la quo_fw-la minus_fw-la cum_fw-la utilitate_fw-la publicâ_fw-la imprimatur_fw-la ja._n cranford_n before_o i_o begin_v the_o refutation_n of_o this_o pamphlet_n it_o shall_v not_o be_v amiss_o that_o i_o apologise_v for_o myself_o for_o refute_v a_o book_n already_o sufficient_o refute_v of_o itself_o and_o by_o that_o very_o same_o book_n whereof_o it_o intend_v the_o refutation_n i_o will_v therefore_o here_o declare_v unto_o the_o christian_a reader_n how_o i_o come_v to_o undertake_v it_o how_o unwilling_a i_o be_v to_o do_v it_o upon_o what_o reason_n i_o be_v move_v thereunto_o the_o truth_n therefore_o be_v thus_o that_o some_o day_n after_o the_o publication_n of_o this_o book_n i_o happen_v to_o fall_v in_o company_n with_o some_o man_n of_o quality_n that_o be_v read_v of_o it_o and_o after_o the_o perusal_n thereof_o it_o be_v the_o joint_a wish_n of_o they_o all_o that_o some_o answer_n be_v draw_v up_o unto_o it_o a_o few_o day_n after_o that_o i_o chance_v to_o reencounter_n with_o some_o of_o the_o same_o company_n and_o some_o other_o very_o well_o affect_v to_o reformation_n who_o after_o sundry_a discourse_n fall_v upon_o the_o same_o theme_n again_o some_o of_o they_o say_v that_o it_o will_v do_v well_o that_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n will_v answer_v it_o where_o some_o of_o they_o desire_v i_o to_o deliver_v my_o opinion_n i_o reply_v several_a time_n as_o occasion_n require_v in_o substance_n that_o which_o follow_v that_o it_o may_v seem_v strange_a to_o other_o if_o man_n of_o such_o gravity_n and_o learning_n and_o much_o more_o of_o so_o eminent_a place_n and_o employment_n represent_v the_o whole_a nationall_n church_n of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o scotland_n shall_v stoop_v to_o answer_v every_o idle_a
they_o come_v to_o maturity_n yet_o as_o if_o in_o revenge_n you_o ding_v the_o word_n of_o separation_n and_o brownist_n against_o the_o apologist_n as_o if_o you_o have_v forget_v or_o diâ—_n intend_v to_o misapply_v what_o you_o have_v say_v in_o the_o next_o line_n afore_o quote_v out_o of_o hierome_n answ_n te_fw-la frustra_fw-la augurium_fw-la vani_fw-la docuere_fw-la parent_n sir_n you_o be_v no_o good_a divine_a for_o it_o be_v not_o the_o apologist_n but_o the_o brownist_n who_o they_o call_v the_o separation_n as_o appear_v most_o express_o by_o their_o own_o word_n the_o separation_n may_v be_v well_o allow_v to_o be_v call_v brownist_n this_o therefore_o be_v but_o a_o mere_a calumny_n that_o you_o pin_n upon_o they_o to_o the_o end_n that_o thereupon_o you_o may_v bewail_v and_o lament_v your_o condition_n and_o great_a oppression_n before_o the_o people_n which_o take_v your_o word_n upon_o credit_n but_o the_o more_o to_o blame_v a_o great_a deal_n you_o be_v that_o so_o 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it_o be_v it_o not_o for_o reverence_n of_o you_o and_o your_o nation_n a_o home_n answer_n will_v be_v shape_v to_o such_o a_o misshape_a misprision_n but_o to_o love_n be_v to_o live_v answ_n 1._o your_o patience_n sir_n be_v very_o weak_a yea_o scarce_o in_o gradu_fw-la continentiae_fw-la since_o it_o can_v hardly_o so_o command_v your_o choler_n and_o desire_n of_o revenge_n against_o a_o pretend_a and_o so_o imaginary_a a_o offence_n 2._o so_o sure_o must_v be_v your_o other_o virtue_n and_o consequent_o your_o reverence_n for_o there_o be_v a_o necessary_a connexion_n betwixt_o they_o all_o at_o least_o in_o gradu_fw-la temperantiae_fw-la under_o the_o which_o they_o can_v absolute_o have_v the_o name_n of_o virtue_n 3._o reverence_n be_v a_o virtue_n whereby_o we_o give_v honour_n to_o virtuous_a person_n and_o fear_v to_o offend_v they_o because_o of_o their_o virtue_n merit_n or_o dignity_n if_o so_o i_o pray_v what_o reverence_n be_v it_o so_o to_o calumniate_v they_o as_o 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malorum_fw-la vos_fw-la estis_fw-la p._n 8._o §_o 1._o we_o be_v glad_a that_o as_o you_o disavow_v the_o rest_n so_o you_o do_v this_o that_o you_o intend_v not_o to_o touch_v the_o church_n of_o scotland_n in_o say_v that_o you_o have_v no_o commonwealth_n to_o rear_v only_o this_o we_o say_v that_o if_o you_o say_v true_a that_o then_o it_o be_v impertinent_o put_v in_o and_o as_o you_o say_v it_o may_v better_o be_v understand_v of_o those_o of_o new_a england_n who_o have_v the_o king_n patent_n for_o what_o they_o do_v in_o policy_n as_o god_n word_n for_o church_n government_n only_o here_o i_o observe_v that_o you_o acknowledge_v the_o king_n and_o his_o patent_n only_o in_o policy_n and_o god_n word_n only_o in_o church_n government_n now_o i_o pray_v than_o what_o more_o give_v you_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n than_o other_o reform_a church_n in_o the_o point_n of_o church_n government_n and_o as_o for_o policy_n no_o reform_a church_n ever_o meddle_v with_o it_o that_o i_o know_v of_o p._n 8._o §_o 3._o if_o you_o think_v it_o not_o a_o blessing_n of_o god_n or_o some_o good_a worthy_a of_o thanksgiving_n not_o to_o be_v engage_v by_o education_n or_o other_o way_n to_o any_o other_o of_o the_o reform_a church_n this_o discourse_n must_v be_v very_o impertinent_a in_o bring_v this_o for_o a_o reason_n that_o your_o discipline_n be_v good_a or_o better_o then_o that_o of_o all_o other_o reform_a church_n for_o afterward_o you_o bring_v yourselves_o in_o as_o spectator_n of_o all_o church_n and_o discipline_n be_v of_o none_o yourselves_o but_o in_o abstractione_n pracisionis_fw-la neither_o say_v the_o commissioner_n absolute_o that_o the_o apologist_n be_v leave_v to_o their_o own_o private_a thought_n to_o be_v move_v by_o but_o ex_fw-la hypothesi_fw-la that_o they_o be_v not_o engage_v to_o other_o church_n and_o true_o no_o reasonable_a man_n can_v think_v but_o they_o be_v so_o since_o they_o say_v that_o in_o look_v upon_o all_o government_n 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shall_v he_o not_o be_v excommunicate_v for_o it_o shall_v his_o ignorance_n excuse_v he_o be_v not_o his_o ignorance_n a_o sin_n and_o especial_o when_o it_o be_v concomitant_a or_o subsequent_a to_o some_o other_o sin_n or_o action_n of_o the_o will_n when_o he_o have_v procure_v it_o to_o himself_o or_o when_o he_o use_v not_o moral_a diligence_n enough_o to_o chase_v it_o away_o shall_v or_o can_v the_o ignorance_n of_o the_o law_n or_o of_o his_o duty_n which_o he_o be_v bind_v to_o know_v excuse_v he_o or_o free_v he_o from_o excommunication_n be_v not_o that_o socinianism_n arminianism_n judge_v you_o master_n doctor_n and_o answer_v not_o with_o complaint_n &_o lamentable_a interjection_n as_o if_o you_o will_v rather_o be_v pity_v then_o bind_v to_o prove_v any_o thing_n you_o say_v pay_v we_o not_o with_o generality_n and_o individuum_fw-la vagum_n but_o signatum_n answer_v i_o pray_v you_o to_o the_o point_n all_o the_o authority_n that_o this_o master_n doctor_n 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as_o it_o be_v its_o quantity_n that_o sin_n be_v say_v to_o be_v great_a than_o another_o according_a to_o its_o essence_n the_o species_n whereof_o degenerate_v most_o from_o the_o divine_a rule_n of_o god_n law_n such_o as_o be_v the_o sin_n that_o be_v great_a in_o regard_n of_o their_o object_n so_o it_o be_v a_o great_a sin_n to_o offend_v god_n then_o man_n because_o it_o include_v in_o itself_o a_o great_a objective_n deformity_n than_o the_o other_o but_o a_o sin_n be_v great_a than_o another_o according_a to_o its_o entity_n or_o quantity_n that_o have_v great_a extension_n intention_n or_o duration_n i._n e._n more_o part_n more_o degree_n and_o of_o a_o long_a continuance_n than_o another_o by_o extension_n or_o more_o part_n i_o understand_v either_o objective_n or_o formal_a part_n viz._n when_o a_o sin_n be_v commit_v against_o more_o person_n as_o the_o sin_n commit_v against_o twenty_o be_v great_a than_o that_o commit_v against_o two_o or_o have_v more_o material_a object_n as_o when_o one_o steal_v more_o money_n viz._n two_o pound_n it_o be_v a_o great_a fin_n then_o to_o steal_v two_o penny_n so_o it_o be_v a_o great_a sin_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o formal_a pert_n or_o act_n wherein_o formal_o sin_n consift_v if_o they_o be_v take_v in_o concreto_fw-la when_o a_o man_n return_v oftentimes_o to_o the_o same_o sin_n as_o he_o who_o steal_v ten_o time_n be_v a_o far_o great_a sinner_n than_o he_o that_o steal_v but_o only_o once_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o intention_n or_o degree_n of_o sin_n that_o sin_n be_v great_a than_o another_o wherein_o there_o be_v more_o degree_n as_o when_o it_o be_v commit_v more_o willing_o with_o greaterliberty_n with_o great_a violence_n with_o great_a knowledge_n item_n by_o he_o that_o have_v great_a help_n of_o grace_n or_o of_o nature_n to_o resist_v it_o and_o to_o produce_v the_o opposite_a effect_n of_o virtue_n final_o that_o sin_n be_v great_a than_o another_o in_o duration_n that_o continue_v long_a so_o a_o sin_n may_v be_v great_a than_o another_o quoad_fw-la essentiam_fw-la and_o less_o quoadentitatem_fw-la or_o essential_o great_a but_o entitative_o or_o in_o quantity_n less_o than_o another_o and_o on_o the_o contrary_n great_a than_o another_o quoad_fw-la entitatem_fw-la or_o in_o regard_n of_o its_o quantity_n but_o not_o great_a essential_o for_o example_n if_o a_o man_n sin_n against_o the_o precept_n of_o the_o first_o table_n in_o not_o love_v god_n with_o all_o his_o heart_n &_o be_v sorry_a therefore_o and_o against_o his_o father_n not_o only_o in_o not_o love_v he_o as_o himself_o but_o also_o in_o abuse_v he_o willing_o and_o offer_v he_o violence_n without_o any_o remorse_n of_o conscience_n the_o first_o sin_n be_v great_a essentialiter_fw-la but_o the_o last_o be_v great_a entitatiuè_n so_o some_o schoolman_n say_v that_o faith_n be_v more_o certain_a than_o any_o
they_o in_o the_o lord_n but_o not_o to_o rule_v ever_o themselves_o and_o other_o answ_n 1._o what_o be_v well-willer_n understand_v by_o congregation_n whether_o minister_n alone_o of_o rule_v elder_n alone_o or_o both_o together_o or_o man_n or_o all_o man_n woman_n and_o child_n and_o in_o a_o word_n all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n i_o know_v not_o neither_o do_v he_o express_v his_o mind_n upon_o this_o point_n only_o i_o must_v say_v that_o be_v once_o in_o company_n with_o some_o of_o their_o preacher_n i_o hear_v some_o woman_n maintain_v stout_o in_o presence_n of_o the_o minister_n without_o any_o contradiction_n make_v by_o he_o that_o woman_n also_o have_v power_n in_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n to_o judge_v of_o controversy_n of_o religion_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n 2._o i_o answer_v it_o be_v one_o thing_n 1._o to_o call_v a_o church_n officer_n to_o his_o charge_n or_o to_o give_v he_o his_o vocation_n or_o call_n 2._o another_o to_o send_v he_o into_o the_o charge_n or_o to_o give_v he_o his_o mission_n 3._o another_o to_o admit_v he_o into_o the_o charge_n and_o to_o elect_v he_o or_o choose_v he_o the_o first_o be_v a_o act_n of_o the_o church_n officer_n who_o examine_v his_o life_n and_o doctrine_n and_o afterward_o give_v he_o his_o ordination_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a ministry_n the_o second_o be_v a_o act_n of_o those_o who_o send_v he_o and_o sometime_o be_v do_v by_o the_o minister_n in_o a_o colloque_n or_o a_o synod_n which_o give_v he_o his_o ordination_n as_o when_o he_o be_v send_v to_o feed_v a_o particular_a flock_n sometime_o by_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o in_o some_o particular_a commission_n to_o a_o class_n or_o synod_n but_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o universal_a visible_a church_n as_o you_o see_v in_o the_o assembly_n at_o antiochia_n in_o send_v some_o minister_n to_o the_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n the_o three_o be_v a_o act_n sometime_o of_o particular_a church_n as_o in_o the_o admission_n and_o election_n of_o their_o own_o minister_n sometime_o of_o a_o colloque_n and_o synod_n as_o in_o the_o admission_n of_o the_o member_n thereof_o as_o in_o that_o synod_n at_o jerusalem_n and_o here_o to_o avoid_v all_o sophistication_n of_o our_o adversary_n note_v that_o i_o speak_v here_o only_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n according_a to_o its_o visible_a form_n and_o consequent_o of_o the_o visible_a and_o extern_a vocation_n mission_n admission_n and_o election_n of_o minister_n so_o i_o say_v every_o church_n choose_v i._n e._n elect_v its_o own_o minister_n but_o it_o call_v they_o not_o nor_o send_v they_o it_o give_v they_o not_o their_o general_a vocation_n nor_o mission_n into_o the_o ministry_n but_o that_o be_v a_o act_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o in_o actu_fw-la signato_fw-la belong_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o in_o actu_fw-la exercito_fw-la according_a to_o the_o exigence_n of_o time_n and_o place_n to_o particular_a minister_n not_o in_o quality_n of_o minister_n of_o particular_a congregation_n but_o of_o great_a consociation_n in_o a_o representative_a body_n of_o many_o particular_a church_n so_o a_o minister_n in_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o god_n by_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n to_o judge_v rule_n and_o feed_v many_o church_n positis_fw-la ponendio_fw-la &_o ut_fw-la poni_fw-la debent_fw-la so_o as_o nothing_o thereunto_o requisite_a be_v want_v but_o all_o order_a as_o it_o shall_v viz._n if_o it_o be_v by_o consent_n or_o election_n of_o his_o particular_a church_n and_o he_o be_v admit_v by_o the_o class_n or_o synod_n whereunto_o he_o be_v send_v etc._n etc._n as_o it_o be_v ordinary_o practise_v in_o our_o reform_a church_n master_n well-willer_n repli_v again_o that_o episcopacy_n be_v as_o intrinsical_v to_o particular_a church_n as_o the_o presbyteric_a since_o bishop_n be_v choose_v by_o the_o people_n at_o their_o instalment_n where_o customary_o people_n be_v allow_v to_o make_v any_o just_a exception_n answ_n i_o deny_v the_o assumption_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v as_o intrinsical_v and_o that_o for_o the_o reason_n bring_v by_o the_o commissioner_n as_o for_o that_o which_o he_o bring_v for_o confirmation_n thereof_o viz._n because_o they_o be_v choose_v by_o the_o people_n i_o answer_v 1._o it_o be_v not_o enough_o they_o have_v their_o election_n from_o the_o people_n but_o they_o must_v also_o have_v their_o vocation_n and_o mission_n from_o the_o church_n in_o the_o name_n and_o authority_n of_o christ_n which_o they_o have_v not_o according_a to_o this_o well-willer_n own_o tenet_n 2._o because_o the_o people_n can_v make_v no_o church_n officer_n and_o principal_o minister_n since_o they_o have_v not_o the_o ability_n to_o judge_v of_o their_o learning_n and_o gift_n 3._o in_o choose_v of_o a_o archbishop_n it_o be_v not_o moral_o possible_a that_o all_o the_o people_n can_v elect_v he_o and_o especial_o when_o he_o be_v a_o great_a archbishop_n or_o a_o primate_n over_o a_o whole_a kingdom_n for_o all_o the_o people_n can_v well_o meet_v together_o 4._o and_o howbeit_o they_o can_v meet_v yet_o can_v not_o their_o consent_n and_o voice_n easy_o be_v gather_v 5._o it_o be_v a_o ridiculous_a thing_n in_o choose_v of_o he_o to_o seek_v the_o consent_n and_o voice_n of_o every_o idle_a and_o ignorant_a fellow_n yea_o of_o woman_n that_o be_v of_o the_o people_n 6._o neither_o be_v it_o enough_o to_o choose_v a_o bishop_n to_o make_v any_o just_a exception_n for_o that_o be_v not_o to_o elect_v he_o but_o to_o hinder_v his_o election_n 7._o neither_o be_v this_o ordinary_o practise_v 8._o and_o master_n well-willer_n to_o the_o bishop_n here_o confess_v in_o the_o next_o line_n that_o it_o have_v have_v little_a success_n but_o master_n well-willer_n confirm_v it_o out_o of_o that_o ordinary_a passage_n of_o hieronymus_n to_o avoid_v schism_n one_o of_o the_o classical_a presbytery_n be_v choose_v to_o be_v as_o chair_n man_n answ_n 1._o such_o a_o bishop_n be_v not_o a_o english_a or_o papist_n bishop_n but_o a_o moderator_n of_o the_o action_n or_o a_o master_n of_o the_o chair_n which_o will_v not_o make_v up_o a_o bishop_n in_o so_o far_o as_o a_o bishop_n be_v distinguish_v from_o a_o ordinary_a minister_n for_o you_o yourselves_o pretend_v to_o have_v your_o synod_n which_o can_v be_v without_o some_o moderator_n precedent_n or_o master_n of_o the_o chair_n and_o yet_o you_o deny_v that_o you_o have_v any_o bishop_n or_o episcopal_a government_n 2._o neither_o be_v bishop_n annual_o 3._o to_o be_v short_a master_n well-willer_n bring_v we_o here_o no_o real_a but_o imaginary_a bishop_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o utopia_n viz._n that_o be_v only_a master_n of_o the_o chair_n annual_a etc._n etc._n 4._o item_n who_o chancellor_n archdeacon_n etc._n etc._n be_v parishioner_n 5._o their_o chancellor_n be_v not_o ordinary_o ecclesiastical_a but_o layman_n as_o you_o call_v they_o who_o nevertheless_o judge_n of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n which_o you_o ordinary_o blame_v 6._o neither_o have_v they_o vocation_n from_o god_n as_o you_o confess_v neither_o be_v they_o choose_v by_o all_o the_o church_n that_o they_o rule_v and_o feed_v if_o any_o food_n they_o give_v and_o feed_v not_o themselves_o with_o the_o fat_a of_o the_o people_n you_o be_v also_o too_o bold_a master_n well-willer_n to_o say_v that_o the_o people_n former_o have_v be_v as_o willing_a they_o shall_v reign_v as_o ever_o any_o people_n be_v in_o your_o kingdom_n to_o have_v the_o presbytery_n ever_o they_o answ_n we_o can_v show_v you_o hundred_o yea_o thousand_o who_o have_v cutle_v their_o government_n both_o in_o england_n and_o in_o ireland_n and_o what_o have_v be_v the_o good_a will_n of_o the_o scot_n towards_o they_o they_o can_v best_o tell_v themselves_o as_o have_v feel_v it_o these_o four_o or_o five_o year_n last_o pass_v but_o as_o for_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n you_o have_v never_o hear_v the_o people_n murmur_n much_o less_o rise_v up_o against_o it_o 2._o but_o if_o it_o be_v so_o that_o you_o have_v find_v they_o so_o sweet_a what_o need_v you_o run_v away_o and_o desert_n the_o church_n here_o they_o do_v compel_v minister_n and_o churchwarden_n to_o do_v many_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n and_o in_o case_n of_o refufall_n do_v ordinary_o undo_v they_o as_o we_o can_v produce_v many_o example_n both_o in_o england_n and_o ireland_n yea_o of_o the_o independenter_n themselves_o before_o that_o they_o speak_v this_o way_n in_o despite_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n the_o like_a of_o this_o can_v without_o singular_a impudence_n be_v say_v to_o have_v be_v any_o where_o practise_v by_o any_o scot_n presbytery_n we_o grant_v you_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o people_n consent_n only_o but_o if_o according_a to_o the_o word_n that_o make_v a_o government_n lawful_a but_o wherefore_o may_v not_o a_o congregationall_a representative_a church_n as_o well_o choose_v man_n for_o classical_a assembly_n as_o for_o synod_n what_o pattern_n have_v you_o for_o the_o one_o rather_o then_o for_o the_o other_o to_o all_o this_o according_a to_o your_o usual_a custom_n you_o say_v much_o but_o prove_v little_a or_o nothing_o of_o what_o be_v in_o dispute_n betwixt_o we_o many_o book_n you_o make_v but_o little_a to_o the_o purpose_n and_o now_o when_o you_o can_v do_v no_o better_o you_o can_v yourselves_o most_o desperate_o on_o the_o bishop_n side_n to_o maintain_v their_o cause_n when_o you_o be_v yet_o too_o weak_a to_o maintain_v your_o own_o this_o well-willer_n in_o the_o end_n of_o his_o book_n wish_n that_o the_o commissioner_n golden_a speech_n be_v write_v upon_o all_o their_o action_n viz._n that_o those_o that_o be_v most_o averse_a to_o presbytery_n if_o they_o allow_v no_o matertall_a difference_n in_o doctrine_n worship_n or_o practice_n may_v enjoy_v their_o peace_n and_o all_o comfort_n of_o their_o ministry_n and_o profession_n under_o it_o without_o controllment_n of_o that_o authoritative_a power_n which_o they_o so_o much_o apprehend_v and_o thereunto_o repli_v we_o have_v say_v he_o be_v of_o late_o make_v to_o fear_v the_o contrary_a by_o the_o report_n of_o some_o not_o of_o the_o mean_a rank_n rf_v your_o own_o nation_n answ_n no_o godly_a man_n that_o know_v what_o be_v presbyterian_a government_n can_v doubt_v of_o it_o for_o according_a to_o the_o rule_v thereof_o 1._o no_o man_n be_v compel_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o his_o own_o conscience_n 2._o if_o you_o will_v be_v under_o it_o and_o allow_v no_o material_a difference_n etc._n etc._n without_o doubt_v the_o synod_n and_o all_o orthodox_n church_n will_v cherish_v you_o and_o assure_v you_o of_o it_o but_o if_o you_o will_v ever_o live_v in_o panic_n fear_n and_o be_v so_o witty_a as_o evermore_o to_o find_v out_o new_a matter_n of_o jealousy_n to_o vex_v your_o own_o soul_n and_o make_v you_o to_o live_v in_o such_o a_o perpetual_a diffidence_n all_o the_o force_n of_o the_o king_n and_o his_o three_o kingdom_n be_v not_o able_a to_o hinder_v it_o you_o must_v trust_v in_o god_n and_o admit_v of_o such_o security_n from_o your_o brethren_n as_o moral_o you_o can_v have_v if_o this_o do_v not_o the_o business_n we_o know_v not_o what_o to_o advise_v you_o as_o for_o that_o anonymous_n countryman_n of_o we_o who_o he_o can_v be_v and_o if_o any_o such_o be_v and_o whether_o his_o discourse_n with_o you_o can_v give_v you_o matter_n of_o just_a fear_n we_o know_v not_o and_o therefore_o forbear_v to_o answer_v only_o i_o wish_v serious_o on_o your_o behalf_n you_o will_v do_v nothing_o against_o the_o glory_n of_o your_o god_n the_o weal_n of_o your_o country_n or_o to_o the_o breach_n of_o charity_n with_o your_o brethren_n who_o so_o much_o desire_n to_o live_v in_o peace_n with_o you_o all_o the_o peace_n of_o god_n be_v with_o you_o all_o amen_n finis_fw-la