How is it possible that both these parts should be true can new-New-England Churches count the same men at the same time to be true Christians and yet prophane and wicked See what a story this must needes be that is thus full of contradictions to it selfe and in no small and triviall things but in the greatest points of our Church Discipline He saith againe Art 4. 5. That we say that the Sacraments and some other Church Ordinances are to be administred and doe belong only to the members of the same Church and not to the members of any other Churches Hee speakes flatly contrary to this cap. 10. Art 1. in these words Answ We grant that severall Churches have a communion amongst themselves in some Church-ordinances as Sacraments how can both be true They hold and they hold not They do they do not speaking still of the Churches of New England generally without the least restraint or distinction yea as if hee had studied to make his contradiction full he expresly and in both parts of it mentioneth the Sacraments that wee deny communion in speciall in Sacraments and we grant a communion in speciall in the Sacraments and againe this communion saith he is neither betwixt Ministers nor members and this communion is both betwixt Ministers and members And both of them within a leafe one of the other in his booke W. R. himselfe must of necessity grant one of these three things either 1 a manifest contradiction by himselfe in a maine point in his story Or 2. that his Authors or intelligences have written or spoken contrary concerning our way And so a man would thinke hee hath little ground in conscience to build his Narration upon their testimony Or thirdly that hath abused them at his pleasure and warped their words to what sense he list all which are very ill in a Narrator Furthermore I here confidently avouch and shall make it good that those printed writers by him cited are all consistent to themselves in this point of administration of Sacraments to members of other Churches and not one of them crossing another or himself Therefore I must againe but with griefe of heart to lay such load on a brother lay this dealing upon him in the sight of all that have beene misled by his Narration Nay I will say more If I can not prove plainly that these Authors cited doe not only not justifie him but write point-blanck against him I will beare the blame vid. Ans 9. Pos 62. We doe not say they appropriate the seales only to members of our own Church excluding all other Churches of Christ and Cot. Cat. p. 7. The supper saith he is dispenced to the faithfull of the same body or recommended to them by a like body and Ans to 9. Pos 78. in these words The members of other Churches doe mutually communicate at each others Churches even as often as Gods providence leades them and they desire it Lastly if all this be not enough to open his abusing us the truth I will go further to shew you that he still cites the very same Author to prove both parts of this contradiction and this is no new thing but frequent with him For in cap. 9. Art 1. he cites Ans to 9. Pos 62. to prove we hold communion with other Churches and their members and also cap. 10. 1. he cites the same Author and page for one Churches communion with another in the Sacrament But herein Art 5. when hee would prove the contrary i. e. that we hold no communion with other Church members in the Sacrament he brings the selfe same Author and page for that end i. e. Ans to 9. Pos pag. 62 c. And thus he doth not with that mentioned one Author only but serves the rest in like manner as Ans to 32. q. Apol. R.M. to E.B. must all come in to avouch both parts of his contradiction the one in chap. 10. 1. for communion the other in Art 4. 5. of this 9. chap. against Communion And this he doth not this once onely but in other places in this booke as we have shewed and shall againe and yet these Authors give him no occasion thereto but speake all the selfe same thing plainely and constantly without any variation He saith Art 7. We hold that a man that is sui juris may not lawfully stand a member of such a Church in which he cannot enioy all Gods ordinances or where any corruption is suffered but if he be ioyned to it he must separate from it Answer The Narratour knowes in his owne conscience that this is not spoken by his cited Author of our Churches in new-New-England but of the Parish Churches in old-Old-England nor of all the Churches in old-Old-England but of such onely where a man either cannot enjoy some ordinances of God or else live there without sinfull conformity for this was written by his Author in the time of the Bishops reigne 2. He alters the Authors words and meaning and that grossely for hee saith we hold a man must not continue in such a Church where any corruption is suffered unreformed But his Author saith in such parish assemblies where a man shall and must himselfe conforme to those corruptions there his standing is unlawfull Ans to 32. q. 32. So hee leaves out the very nerves and strength of the place which is the ground of our both with drawing i. e. a necessity of sinning You find him againe strongly pleading for imposed formes of Prayer Leiturgies Art 8. with it's Marg. This is the fourth time he hath harped on this string 1. he was for Overtures 2. for a kinde of N. E. Primer in admissions of members 3. for booke prayers 4. now and that more fully then before for imposed prayers and set Leiturgies whither he will goe next I know not If God had not pittifully left him to himselfe in this Narration I am confident he would not have come thus farre as to have used such arguments as these that if we in New-England allow set formes of Psalmes and of blessings of the people and formes of Church-covenants and of Catechising c. Why not as well set formes of prayers imposed But to this having answered before I leave him to the Father of truth to shew him his error Answer to CHAP. X. ARt 1. he saith and that truely Wee grant that severall Churches have a communion amongst themselves whereby they doe and may partake with each other in the Sacraments Of the contradiction betweene this and and chap. 9. Art 4 5. Answ it is spoken to already Only here note 1 the fulnes of affirmation in this Art for our communion with other Churches in the Sacrament we have saith he a communion amongst our selves 2 in the Sacraments in speciall 3 with severall Churches 4 we do and may partake 5 each with other 6 mutually 7 and this both betwixt Ministers and people 8 we not only practise this but grant
it from any Reverend brother to blot his paper so unwarrantably 2. Though your ground of this report be weake yet it seemes your credence is strong for you make inferences from these premises against us And as your ground is bad so your end in relating of it is as bad i. e. to cast a blot upon our Churches as if their practises did crosse their principles 3. What will you say now W. R. if your informations prove false as indeede they doe for neither did their owne Churches nor all the Churches send Mr. P. and Mr. W. but the whole state of new-New-England or Generall Court with one consent upon some speciall imployments which cannot yet be all finished Now I have told you the truth let me give you a few Animadversions 1 Bestow to beleeve ought against your brethren hereafter 2 Slower to report it to others 3 But never print it without manifest grounds and a good call 4 If you have done otherwise be swift to recall it To Marg. of Art 4. wherein he disputes against us about our non-communion or withdrawing our selves from other Churches in case of obstinacy by two arguments 1. Because non-communion is in substance the very same with Synodicall excommunications Object 1 and by it he saith a man is cast out of the Church and given up to Satan as well as by excommunication If it be so W. R. 1 Why have you said so oft in opposition to our way that our Churches have no power over one another Ans when as our Churches have a power to withdraw by non-communion and that withdrawing say you is as much as your Synodicall excommunication 2 Why do you so sleight our Churches counsells admonitions to other churches as not being authoritative Whereas if they be not obeyed it seemes they can passe as sore a censure as all your Synodicall Authority For you can doe no more by it then excommunicate and so farre you say we can proceede 3. Why then doe you call us abusively Independants for by your saying it stands us in hand to depend as much upon other Churches for counsell and admonition as you on a Presbyterie or Synod or they will give us up to Satan as well as a Synod 4. Why then doe not you accord with us in this point of Non-communion seeing in it your selves and we can comfortably close rather then strive with your brethren for Synodicall excommunication to which their judgements cannot yeeld seeing that is the same in effect with this This being attended to will end a great part of the difference Obj. But whiles we oppose Synodicall excommunication we establish it saith he by standing for non-communion it being the same in effect with the other ibid. Though W. R. thinkes they are both one I cannot For that is positive Ans this only negative That a sentence passed This not so That a cutting off from Churchdom at least for present a giving up to Satan c. This only a cessatioÌ„ of conferring Church priviledges c. By the one the Churches withdraw and call in that only which once they gave which is the right hand of fellowship by the other the Synod or Classis take away that which they never gave or had power to bestow which is the excommunicates membership in their own Church So that when we stand for the one as having no rule to carry us further we doe not establish the other This is his first argument against us about non-communion The second that it is more cruell and more dangerous then Synodall excommunication Ans Me thinks this seemes strange seeing it is a lighter and lesser punishment then the other by Non-communion A man is only let go into the world where Satans walkes are by Synods excom hee is given up and cast to Satan to terrifie and vexe him But his arguments for the cruelty and danger of Non-communion are these foure Reasons 1. Because by this whole Churches saith he may come to be cast out Ans So they may as well by a Synod excommunication for if a Synod hath power to cast out one member of other Churches then by the same reason 2. 6. 10. and so a whole Church as well and Churches too for where will you stop 2. By this saith he the Church deserted is left to it selfe in their error Ans Looke what meanes publique or private a Synod may use for any man or Churches regaining the very same meanes to the highest extent may the other Churches use likewise 3 This causeth endles rents Ans Shew in any point wherein or why more then the other 4 This saith he hinders not the infection of others but that by cutting off the rotten members the rest are kept sound Answ Doe not this crosse what he said before that by non-communion a man is cast out and delivered up to Satan yet here hee denies it Ob. Popular Governement is one cause of Schismes in new-New-England and quotes Mr. Parkers letter Answ Blessed be God that under that Governement of ours which you call or rather miscall Popular the very neck of Schisms and vile opinions brought to us from hence was broken When here amongst you where there is not such a Governement they walke bolt upright amongst you and crowe aloud You shall doe better to lay aside this objection till a Presbyterian Government have healed these sore breaches in these Churches here Answer to CHAP. XV. ARticle 1. saith We hold the Magistrate cannot lawfully compell men to enter into a Covenant with God Answ It appeares by his Margent he meanes a Nationall Covenant But you must take his owne words as for proofe he brings none and I beleeve hee cannot but Barr. and Rob. which never came there and the Apologie which as he saith lies by him As long as I lived there I never heard or knew the Churches held so But he must have leave to say any thing Marg. saith that many of us hold the Magistrate hath nothing to doe in matters of Religion Let him know and all others that all the Churches with us doe abhorre that vile opinion Some I beleeve Answ of Road-Island some others banished from us doe hold so but those are gone out from us and are not of us as it is said 1 John 2.19 If he had considered this distinction of the blessed Apostle hee durst not have said many of us hold so This must goe amongst other aspersions to be revoked of and recalled Art 2. That we hold that Christians may and ought to set up new Churchâ—s and practise in them all Gods ordinances and that 1 without the consent of a Christian State 2 yea against their commands 3 their peremptorie cammands ☜ 4 and against the established lawes of that State 5 yea and in the midst of and against the mindes of such Churches as we freely acknowledge the true Churches of God He reserved a strange Article for the last If I had not read it Ans I
AN ANSWER TO W. R. HIS NARRATION of the Opinions and Practises of the Churches lately erected in new-Nevv-England Vindicating those Godly and Orthodoxall Churches from more then an hundred imputations fathered on them and their Church way by the said W. R. in his Booke Wherein is plainely proved 1. That the grounds of his Narration are sandie and insufficient 2. That the maner of his handling it unloving and irregular 3. That the matter of it ful of grosse mistakes divers contradictions 4. That the quotations extremely wrested and out of measure abused 5. That his Marginall notes impertinent and injurious By THOMAS WELDE Pastour of the Church of Roxborough in NEVV-ENGLAND Jude 10. They speake evill of things they know not Prov. 18.17 He that is first in his owne case seemeth just but his neighbour commeth after and searcheth him This is Licensed and Entered according to Order LONDON Printed by Tho Paine for H. Overton and are to be sold at his shop entring into Popes-Head Alley out of Lumbard-Streete 1644. THE EPISTLE TO THE REDAER THere was a law in Israell Deut. 22.18 19 that if any man did bring an ill name upon a Virgin of Israell the matter was to come before the Elders and hee was to bee chastised and amerced an hundred shekells of silver There is one W. R. if thou knowest the man that hath brought many ill reports not upon one Virgin but all the Virgin-Churches of New-England When thou seest him do so much as bring him forth to Answer this law Tell him wee purpose to try an Action with him and have satisfaction from him And if hee saith hee hath not raised these reports himselfe but had them from others Then tell him again from us that cannot satisfie for we have learned from divine and humane lawes that if any bee taken reporting of slaunders as wee shall abundantly shew hee hath do◠his Narrative he may be charged as the raiser of ◠〈◊〉 hee can cleare himselfe by bringing such Authors into light as will owne them Dut. 17.6 2 Cor. 13.1 1 Tim. 5.19 But if he will not or cannot wee must lay them at his owne doore It s for all the severall reports in his booke brought against us and our wayes we expect the rule of Moses and the Apo-stle Paul that in the mouth of two or three witnesses and not under every matter should be established to produce Barrow Browne Robinson c. for Authors for they were dead before New-England Churches were borne or H. W. T. P. and I know not what private letters lying by him in his study for wee know not their voyce nor let him say it was told me as he often doth for wee protest against such testimony nor I was informedso c. for sama est mendax and prejudice hardly speakes well of any Tell him wee will goe to aged Paul hee was a good Divine to bee our Vmpire to determine what witnesse we must have in a case of accusation and to his verdict wee will stand which is set downe plainely 1 Tim. 5.19 Three things more let me say to the reader and I have done 1. Wonder not this Answer staid so long for it had certainly taken his narrative by the heele but that some speciall providence whose distracted lines intercepted the truth is I thought it should neede no other Answer then it selfe untill I perceived some ill effects of it 2 But why doe I undertake this worke Answer 1. I am one of the nearest kinsmen to those Churches of any other man in these parts and therefore I take my selfe bound to the name of my Brethren in a righteous way and not let it die through my neglect 2. Few or none are here have had more experience of new-New-England Church courses then my selfe through many yeares continuance with them and to whom I am returning when God makes way and am therefore able to speake on certainty and with conscience where W. R. departs from the truth in his relations 3. I have beene pressed by word of mouth and sundry letters to doe it therefore if I should hold my peace when I am called to speake and see so many innocent Churches suffer I should not lift up my face to God nor my Brethren there God knowes my spirit how exceeding loath I was to controvert with a Brother though but a defendant and to uncover his nakednesse but when God calls I am bound with Moses when he saw the Ebrew did wrong to his Brother to say why smitest thou thy fellow Exod. 2.13 3. Touching the answer it selfe some things I would say 1 I thinke it not meete to answer all I could nor to every particular especially in his Marginall extravagances that would be too tedious For our principall passages being answered unto the rest will fall of themselves 2. Nor to answer any thing in his booke so oft as hee repeates it for divers things are fetched over by him some three some foure severall times what his reasons are himselfe can best give account 3. Neither is it possible for me to answer the sayings of his private letters lying by him such a ground of Church stories as I never heard of because I know neither who they are nor what their owne words are or if I did were it materiall 4. Thou seest I have a three fold worke to answer 1. his Articles 2 his quotations 3 his Margent All which I have indeavored faithfully as in Gods presence to doe what oversight or infirmity hath passed my penne therein I crave thy pardon for we are weake men and God knowes too apt to forget our selves in greater things then these 5. What I here write is onely from my selfe if any weakenesse appeare impute it not I pray thee to the case in hand or our Churches iudgements there but to my owne frailty rather 6. Nor is it my scope to discusse the points of Discipline that worke is in abler hands but I looke upon his booke as an historicall narration and accordingly I frame my answer 7. Though he brings not the words of any of his Authors cited which had been fairer and might have kept him in closer bonds yet I have done it for him especially in the last sixe or eight Chapters that you may iudge whether hee hath dealt fairely with them or no. 8. When I recite W. R. his words in his narration you will see I have dealt candidly with him either mentioning his very words or so many of them as containe their full strength whereto my answer tends 9. When at any time in my answer I say such an Article or such a clause is untrue or is false I am not willing to impute the falsity thereof to the Authors knowledge I would iudge otherwise of him then so but to the thing it selfe asserted which may be done through his misinformation or mistake I will say no more but commit thy spirit to the wise guidance of the Father of lights who
in Christ Jesus leade thee by the hand into all truth and peace Thine T. W. The Reader may take a short view of some Particulars in W. R. his Narration As they are made to appeare in his Booke by the Page and Line as followeth Vnfound passages Vntrue Relations Falsified quotations Page Line Page Line Page Line 4 25 1 15 17 6 5 20 2 21 18 20 6 7. 24. 37 5 20 19 14. 24 7 5. 15 6 23 20 24 8 28 20 3. 32. vlt. 24 35 9 whole page 25 2 last 25 18. 23 18 26 39 10 25 23. 31. 40 24 39 37 whole pag. Â 26 5 29 17. 28 38 whole pag. Â 32 3 last 36 28 51 whole pag. Â 57 16 40 15 56 9 58 1. 2. 27 52 1. 9. 26 57 5. 10. vlt. 59 22 53 2. 11. 22 59 6. 33 60 23 c. 54 3. 10 60 11 61 38 58 33 62 11. 25. ad fin 62 11. 25. ad fin 61 21. 26 66 4 last 63 1. 9 64 1 9. 25 67 6. 12. 22 64 14 65 13 ad finem 68 4. 7. 12 67 25. 18 There are some things in W. R. his Narration that carry a face of contradiction I propound them to his review in his owne words sense and pages Thus they stand That Sacraments are to be Administred to the Members of the same Church only Narration p. 35. Art 5. vide p. 38. Art 4. The Churches do and may mutualiy partake each with other in the Sacraments p. 37. Art 31. p. 10. Art 7 That They conceive some to bee true Christians whether they be in Church estate or no. p. 33. Art 1. Whosoever becomes not a setled member of a Church they account him wicked prophane and a gracelesse person p. 29. Art 1. p. 12. Art 12. new- He saith concerning the judgements practises of the Churches generally in new-New-England That They may and doe constitute new Churches without the consent of the Christian State p. 20. last line p 49. Art 2. latter end of the Marg. Before they doe enter into Church estate notice is first given thereof to the Magistrate or the Christian State p. 21. Art 4. And by a law of the State none can enter without such knowledge given to the Magistrate p. 21. Art 2. That They may and doe set up new Churches in the midst of and against the mind of the Churches p. 49. Art 2. and latter end of Margent Notice is given thereof to the neighbouring Churches that such as please may be present p. 21. Art 4. That The Church-Covenant is that whereby all the Members of the Society are united to Christ p. 12. Art 1. Many are within the Church-covenant that are not within the Covenant of Grace and so not united to Christ p. 14. Art 3. That The Churches of new-New-England are of one and the same way in Discipline without any materiall difference p. 1. Art 1. They are not of the same way but sometimes of 2. contrary waies sometimes of 3. severall waies at once and that in very materiall points p. 10. Art 8. p. 16. Art 8. p. 13. Art 3. and 4. p. 27. Art 11. Objection 1 But we in New-England goe different waies so the contradictions come from our selves not from him Answ No for We are all of the same way and differ not in any materiall point as himselfe plainely saith chap. 1. Art 1. 2 His Narration speakes what the Churches in new-New-England doe generally as Title p. 1. Now it is impossible that they can generally goe two wayes at once Objection 2 But our writers say so and hee speakes according to them Answ Then let him make this appeare and that will bee hard to doe for his quoted Authors speake the selfe same thing An Answer to VV. R. his Narration of the Opinions and Practises of the Churches lately erected in new-New-England An Answer to the PREFACE IT would grieve a tender heart to heare this man call God and his Conscience to witnesse how highly he honours and loves those that are in Church waies and by and by to assault with horrible untruths and bitter invectives the Churches of new-New-England whom God hath beene pleased to honour in the hearts of thousands of his pretious Saints which one would thinke hardly credible that any that goeth under the notion of honesty much lesse of godlinesse should venture to doe He blames the Brethren of the Independent way as he stiles them that were and are in London for breaking a solemne agreement to produce a narrative of their Doctrine and practise and yet did not yea would not performâ— it 1. Some of us professe solemnely we never so much as heard of any promise therefore were farre enough from breaking it Answ why then doth W. R. lay it upon the Independent Brethren in London without exception 2. What was done by any of them herein was freely from themselves as I am informed by them that by some manifestation of their Judgements and practises they might cleare themselves from misapprehensions and mistakes so that if they did it not themselves were like to suffer most 3. This they made performance of in their late Apologie so farre as might satisfie in a rationall way but if hee expected more where lies the fault 4. If they did not this so soone as hee would have had them let him know the extreame distractions of these times and the publique service of some of these brethren who were imployed by the State for a good space together might justly hinder greater things then this Now see what little cause the Narratour had to cast such a blot on the names of his Honored Brethren as he calles them Hee saith Many wâ—re drawne aside their Churches and Ministry slighted neglected deserted yea contumeliously and scornefully reproached as Antichristian Babylonish false and Null c. Answ 1. Such contemptuous speeches reproachfull carriages cast upon our Brethren of the Churches here neither are or ever were allowed by us yea our owne examples practisings writings doe and we hope ever shall beare witnesse against such loose and lavish spirits and practises And can any man then justly impute them unto us Psal 11.3 May we not say with the Psalmist If the foundations be cast downe what hath the innocent done 2. They are not alone in these reproches our selves also are fellow-sufferers with them herein from divers Sectaries now in London whose usuall tones dialects these words he mentions are not the voyce of Independents That some of our way contrary to our promise and Pactions have impetously both in Pulpit and Presse laboured to promote the popular governement to make all men disrelish and abominate the Presbyterian way Answ 1 A sad complaint if true But to shew how farre from this spirit and practise we have beene consider first how loath wee were to appeare in the case who though we had bookes of this subject ready for the presse yet by joynt consent suppressed them
haply to the great detriment of our cause for that wee were unwilling to blow a fire 2. When we did appeare in Pulpit or Presse whether it was without instigation or no and how sparing wee have beene ever since untill some late forced replyes and how inoffensive in our carriages and preachings we leave to all godly to judge 3. Instance but in the Holland Brethrens Apologie was it Impetuously done was it A MOCK NARRATIVE A MEERE GVLL as this man most abusively styles it was it not rather full of Peaceablenesse modesty and candor and seasonably needefull as that Reverend man affirmed in Print 4. Doth not W. R. know that about this time of promises and Pactions or a while after our Brethren of the Presbyterian way did write a Letter into Scotland with many of their hands to it telling the Ministers there they did approve of their Governement and would joyne in the furtherance of it Now for him to binde our hands and seale up our mouthes and then underhand at the same time to fore-determine the matter and bee ingaged in that way before any solemne dispute and yet to accuse us for breaking Pactions seemes neither rationall nor faire Other things I shall speake to the Preface afterwards in answer to the booke Onely this he will make the Reader beleeve to forestall him that there are some seeming contradictions in our Tenets apparent repugnances to the letter of Scripture or light of common sense But what reall contradictions are in his Narrative and manifest repugnances in his Animadversions to Scripture rules light of reason and common sense too by the helpe of God I shall make to appeare but with a sad heart I must tell him that such things should be written by a Brother whom we have so much esteemed and reverenced but seeing now it is done rather then so many pretious Saints and Churches should suffer wrongfully I am forced to uncover If others be rightly informed and himselfe convinced I have my ends To the Narration in generall AS he saith hee had laid by the thoughts of it a good while through many discouragements So I conceive if he had cast them by for ever made the place of conception their grave he had dealt better for the truth and himselfe But he is very angry for want of Narratives One he must have and one he will have be it right or wrong and if neither New-England nor Holland Brethren bee worth a Narrative let him come he will frame one himselfe And this shall be no MOCK NARRATIVE NO MEERE GVLL as the Holland Brethren produced but a more solid thing Now what it is will appeare if we weigh three things That the grounds on which hee builds it are sandie and insufficient The manner of his proceeding unloving and irregular The matter of it 1. Full of grosse mistakes contrarieties to the truth and contradictions to it selfe 2. His quotations abused extremely and wrested 3. His Marginall notes very scandalous and offensive And according to this method we will proceede and undertake to make all these particulars good in our answer First for his grounds You would thinke that the grounds on which all his worke is founded and all New-England Churches taxed had neede bee sound even adequate or else hee will not prove himselfe a wise builder But they are these three 1. Our owne printed Bookes 2. Private letters 3. Other good intelligences as himselfe saith in his Title For the printed bookes which he quotes they are the writings of some godly and learned men there But that these be rightly conceived know 1. These bookes five in number are not written from all the Elders two of them but from one only Another from some few none of them from all 2. Not written to the Churches here as a Platforme of our practise but sent as an answer to some one or more Brethren in England that desired satisfaction to some quaetees of their owne whereof W. R. himselfe was one 3. Nor intended by them for the presse much lesse to be made a standard to prove our Churches opinions and waies by but published by some well-minded here without their knowledge yea against the mindes of some of them Yet if he had kept close to these in his narration he had saved his credit and my paines but you shall see he hath so abused and wrested them I dare say in wel-neere an hundred places that his assertions are not their sayings and words but his owne and they will leave him to quit himselfe as well as he can For as Scripture it selfe the rule of all things abused is no Scripture so the writings of men perverted are no more theirs This we shall make plentifully appeare Sundry private letters lying by him as hee saith sent from New-England but names only two letters of their names are another ground of his story And whatsoever any one of these writs though never so privately and unknown to any other man in any of all the Churches must needs be the opinion of all the Churches in new-New-England But to shew the invalidity yea and impossibility of this to be a good ground Consider 1. These are incompetent proofes and liable to great and just exceptions For 1. Some there are contrary to us in their opinions Antinomians Familists Antichurchians c. and even some of his cited letters as neer as we can gather are from some of these 2. Others that write letters from thence are weake in judgement not understanding what the Churches hold or not able to expresse aright what they themselves understand are all these fit to be the Churches interpreters Doth not W. R. himselfe in his preface say Scribimus omnes indocti doctique 3. Others may be novices not well verst in our way nor ripe to give the Churches verdict 4. Some others haply are but in part of our judgement and not come off fully to the Churches practises there 5. Others are prejudiced against the place and persons and prejudice himselfe knowes can hardly speake well And we know diverse such have wrote letters which t is like are fallen into his hands Therefore these cannot be built upon for competent witnesses And whereas he saith in his Postcript pag. 50. Object That these letters come from Members of Churches and many from Ministers of the Word It is answered That Members of Churches and Ministers too Ans may be liable to some or other and some of them possibly to many of the said exceptions Neither is it in our power nor in any Church in the world to cure all their Members or Ministers either of their distempers for if it were you would not suffer your own Churches in many of their Members and Ministers to be so infected with sundry grosse errors as they are 2. A testimonie against whole Churches had need be sure that men may trust unto it But how can we be assured 1. Whether such letters as he cites were ever written from New-England
or no for I have good ground to question ☜ because he thrusts in T. G. to I. G. amongst his New-England letters and yet these men never came there though himself faith in postscript pag. 51. ult l. That his letters come from Members of our Churches in new-New-England And as he adds some so he may adde more for ought I know 2. If such letters were sent how can we be assured that such expressions as he reports are in those letters 2. Or such a scope as he puts upon them to be collected from those expressions All these must be cleared before we can ground any thing upon them But W. R. tells us so Ans So he tells us other stories in this booke that are as far from truth as Old-England is from New which wee have no faith to credit 2. If he hath so extreamly mistaken the printed letters which he knowes we can come at to peruse how can we or any else be assured that he hath not more abused his private letters which no eye but his owne may see 3. Suppose none of the mentioned exceptions can be had but that the writers of the letters be as honest sound able men as can be imagined and suppose we could be assured of the particulars recited yet all this will not serve because they are but single men and write as private persons their own thoughts not as be trusted by any commission from the Churches to write their common Judgements Therefore no ground to esteeme their letters of such authenticall force unlesse he can prove they were allowed by the Churches or were men Apostolicall that could not erre in writing 4 If this be a good ground to prove Churches judgements by private letters marke what absurdities will ensue 1. That we must believe that the Churches of new-New-England denie a power of votes ordinarily to the people because Mr. Parker a Pastour there wrote so And so of necessity we must believe a falshood 2. That if W. R. and two or three more should write into New-England of their allowance of the lawfulnesse of an imposed Common Prayer booke then we may write and print it for so doth W. R. that the Churches and Ministers in old-Old-England doe generally allow such impositions 3. Then any few envious or malicious persons in a Church may bring a scandall unavoydable upon any Church in the world if what they say and hold should be accounted the Churches judgement where they live 4. Then the Churches of England are all Antinomian and Familisticall because on our knowledge such letters have been written from some in these Churches as professedly mainetaine such opinions how absurd these conclusions would be let any ind fferent man judge 5. Yea to sinke this unreasonable dealing of his ITS IMPOSSIBLE that this should be a sound discovery of the Churches judgement and practise there ☞ because many of these letters cited speake contrary one to another as himselfe well knowes and his Narration fully expresseth yet all the Churches in new-New-England saith W. R. himselfe in his 1. pag. are of one and the same way in Church Government and what may be said of any one may be believed of all Therefore it 's impossible that his letters which speake contraries can be a sufficient ground of testimonie for our Church way which is but only one And for him to produce them as a proofe of what they cannot possible make good appeares not only A SEEMING CONTRADICTION but against light of COMMON SENSE which he falsly imputes to us but we truly to him 6. Lastly we appeale for a conclusion of this Argument from W. R. in a distemper to the same man in his right minde to tell us now ingenuously if this be a good Argument by one mans writing to prove the Churches iudgement No saith W. R. pag. 3. line 4. of this very booke it is not for such a booke saith he called our way of the Churches proves not that they hold a platforme of Discipline in new-New-England and why Because it was compiled by one particular man and not consented to by the rest What can be more full But he leanes not upon the testimony of any one letter Object but produceth divers letters for the proofe of every particular If he did so it were insufficient as is proved Answ but he often produceth one single private letter alone without any other evidence at all as I can make appeare in above fifty severall places throughout the booke But he will tell us that he produceth not these private letters and manuscripts by themselves alone to prove our judgements Object and practises in New England but as ioyned with the printed bookâ—s or papers to make the storie compleat But it is not so neither Ans ☞ for in abundance of places he produceth none of the printed bookes at all for proofe but only â—hese private letters as his only ground As Cap. 1. Art 2. Cap. â—â— Art 2. medio and Art 4. And Art 5. And Art 11. Cap. 4. Art 9. And pag. 17. pag. 18. pag. 19. Cap. 5. Art 2. And Art 3. And Art 4. And Art 5. And Art 6. And Art 7. And Art 8. And Art 9. And Art 10. And Art 11. Cap. 6. Art 10. Cap. 7. Art 4. Art 5. Art 6. Art 7. Cap. 9. 9. And above twenty more mentioned in the Margent and the postscript Therefore it 's evident he grounds a very great part of his Narration upon these private writings which are altogether insufficient as we have proved upon demonstrated reasons But he was not there himselfe an eye-witnesse to behold things Object he produced the best grounds he had for his Narrative What calling had he more then others Ans to make any Narratives of things done 3000. Miles off which he knew no better he should rather have let it alone then abuse the truth the Churchâ—s and all dabble himselfe upon such slight grounds as these are But see his third ground he hath OTHER GOOD INTELLIGENCES that is by word of mouth 1. Who can witnesse he hath such Intelligence Answer 2. That this is GOOD Intelligence 3. Where are those good Intelligencers let them come face to face and be tryed but if they be peeping behind the doore we owne them not for good Intelligencers Thus we have seene the unsoundnesse of this foundation whereon he builds his story and the Axlettee on which all the burden lies being thus broken the NARRATIVE must needs fall without any further opposition But as his grounds are weake so the manner of his procedings is 1. Unloving 2. Irregular 1. UNLOVING Witnesse 1. All those calumnies he strives with all his might though to no purpose to cast upon his so much HONOVRED BRETHREN from the beginning of his Preface to the end of his Postscript 2. His crosse-grained animadversions where are so many quibs gibs scoffes and far-fetched collections to make New-England men and their wayes odious to the world together with his darke
and doubtfull expressions often dropt out which may easily be taken by the Reader in the worst sense As though â—e reserved his evasions if he should be put to it 3. His style full of bitternesse that a man may know who the writeris though he put downe but two letters of his name 4. That he will against all â—â—mmon sense needs make us as much differing from the Churches â— England as the most rigid Brownists yea in some respects more and this hee strongly contends for though we professedly in our writings preachings practises manifest the contrary and testifie as oft as occasion serves the great dislike of their rigid Separation 5. As he hath cast us out of his own heart so he labours to bring all men out of conceit with us the Churches here the Parliament the Assembly the whole Kingdome 3. Kingdomes yea all other Churches and Nations As if we and all our Church-courses were a compound of absurdity and folly But in this as in the rest we commit our case to God that judgeth righteously who can cleare us as the light Psal 37. ☞ As his dealing is unloving so irregular for it's directly against the Apostles rule 1. Tim. 5.19 AGAINST AN ELDER RECEIVE NOT AN ACCVSATION BVT BEFORE TVVO OR THREE VVITNESSES Where it 's plain that Timothy himselfe must not receive so much as one accusation against any one Elder of a Church but before two or three witnesses that are able to make it good so tender is God of the names of his Ministers But W. R. so far forgets himselfe and this blessed rule that he receives 1. Not one but MANY accusations as his booke shewes 2. Not against some one Elder but in a manner ALL THE ELDERS YEA AND MEMBERS TOO AND ALL THE CHVRCHES IN N. E. 3. And all this not upon report of TVVO OR THREE VVITNESSES but some one single testimonie 4. Yea not so much as one single witnesse produced BEFORE us as the text requires but onely hee himselfe saith hee hath such and such a letter by him tells him so So that upon the point there is not one legall witnesse but all the testimonie is involved upon himselfe only a most incompetent man and unfit to be an Informer an accuser and a witnesse too much lesse in the roome of two or three witnesses 5. And which is yet more the doth not only receive these accusations but reports them to others yea divulge and print them to the whole world 6. And all this too with as great infamy dammage and wrong before the Churches and Kingdome as may be imagined and at such a time also as never was in our age when as the Parliament and assembly both sit at once consulting about Church-Discipline 7. And he staies not in the bare reporting these accusations but So reports them as one labouring to draw all others into the like errour of beleeving them 8. And which is worse then all the rest he brings such reports against us as 1. It 's nothing to him whether they be true or false 2. Yea which he certainely knowes are false The former of these I prove from his owne words in his Postscript ☜ pag. 50. I undertake not saith he to report things in New-England as really there they are WHETHER THEIR REPORTS BE TRVE OR FALSE IS NOTHING TO ME. The latter appeares in that in sundry places of his booke he relates things that are ex diametro contrary each to other both which he well knowes cannot possibly be true and yet lets both stand still on record against us and then infers bitter invectives in his animadversions from such contrary reports You will stand amazed at this dealing I suppose which I conceive I am bound to discover that the world may see how we are abused by him and cleare us in their apprehensions Thus for his grounds and manner of dealing I come now to the maner of his Narration Answer to the Title A Narration of some Church-courses generally held in opinion and practised by the Churches lately erected in new-New-England Answer LEt the Reader mind well the latitude of W. R. his undertaking in his booke It is to make a Narration not of some particular mens practises here and there in New-England but of the opinions and practises of whole Churches there and not of some one or two Churches for that is too narrow still for his scope but of THE CHVRCHES in new-New-England indefinitely And that you may know for certain he means to tell you what all the Churches there doe hold and practise and not sometimes but in their constant course he saith plainly they are the Church courses GENERALLY held by the Churches in new-New-England which he will declare So that though he speakes but of some Church courses yet those he doth mention must be such as are generally held and practised by the Churches there The performance of which in its latitude let him know we expect and if he comes short of this unlesse he revoke his title he will doe us wrong Answer to CHAP. I. THe summe of Art 1. and its Margent is That the Churches of new-New-England being the same in Discipline with Plymouth and Plymouth having their Principles from Mr. Robinson it is to be inquired whether we be not all of the way of the Separatists Answer 1. As in our judgements we much differ from them so in several particulars of moment we practise what the Separatists properly so called will not doe as hearing preaching praying in the Assemblies in England and also in private commmunion with them c. 2. Though we should practise some of the same things they doe in Discipline doth that make the way evill simply because they doe it First he must prove that the Separatists practise nothing right at all or else that we must not because they doe it 3. Himselfe hath fully answered for us Preface pag. 3. who saith to this effect Though in Discipline men generally act like others he meanes the Separatist yet if in their opinion of these practises and in the groundâ— of them they not only differ but stiffly â—ppsoâ— them the just repute of such persons is to be preserved We need looke no further to cleare us from censure then to W. R. himselfe For it 's well know ne we differ from them in our opinions and grounds of our practise and how we hate opposed rigid Separatists in that very point let our own writings witnesse Discourse of Covenant 36. 37. 38. 52. Here note once for all he saith that the churches in new-New-England are of one and the same way in Discipline without any materiall difference And this he would have remembred all along his booke I hope he will not start from this afterwards I pray him to mind it He saith Art 2. We have no Platformes agreed upon amongst us 1. We hold it not unlawfull to have a Platforme of Church Government i. e. a confession of the Discipline of Christ Ans
collected out of Scripture and set down in writing 2. Yet we see no Grounds to impose such a Platforme upon Churches but leave them to their libertie therein because we know not that Christ ever enjoyned it and therefore we desire W. R. not to stumble at our Churches much lesse take upon him so masterly to controll us because we have it not To the Marginalls of Art 2. He wonders how we so soone fell into such an exact forme of Discipline Objection 1 without a Platforme We answer him yea he tells us himselfe Answ we had it from that patterne of wholsome words written in the Scriptures Gods good spirit opening our eyes to see it And some others also laying aside prejudice and humbly setting themselves to waite on God for light may come to see an exacter forme of Discipline then it may be hither to they have done But why doe no other Churches in the world saith he besides your Objection 2 selves see this way but all oppose it Blessed be God it is not so many thousands doe see and follow it Answ so far are they from opposing it And even England is comming neerer it by many steps of late then before He that hath brought them from Episcopacy Imposed Formes and Popish Ceremonies c. can carry them on further 2. Most of such as doe not walke in but oppose our way are they that either have not heard our grounds or else have not impartially weighed them and hence have received a prejudice against our practise 3. To reveale light being a free act of the father of light he may choose what truths he will manifest and when and to whom and in what measure he will dispence them as Christ saith Mat. 25.11 Father I thanke thee thou hast revealed these things so it is Father because thy good will is so Objection 3 But we tie our selves to a president why not rather to a platforme Answ 1. Let him consider well if this be not a reproach injuriously cast upon us whose indeavour is and hath beene as in the sight of God not to follow mens or Churches president further then wee see them following Christ for though at first a president may be looked at as a directorie into the right way yet the practise may be grounded on the truth it selfe discerned and not upon the president according to Iohn 4.42 They were first led to Christ by the woman yet after beleeved on him for his owne sake and the truth they discerned to be in him Ob. All our Churches saith he in new-New-England their members doe clearely see the shining light of Discipline by a cleare evidence of the way revealed to them and yet doâ— tiâ— themselves to a president Ans Is not here a contradiction for if we all have full cleare shining light ☞ then wee neede no spectacles of a president or if wee tie our selves to a president it 's because wee conceive wee have not full and cleare light of our owne Objection 4 But we have had divisions amongst us Ans 1. Those divisions were not caused by our Church Discipline but by certaine vile opinions brought to us from England which I feare is your own case this day and yet no blame you will say 2. Through rich mercy they are long since subdued by the light and power of his truth O that you could say the same of all the loose opinions here if the will of God were so for which wee sigh daily to heaven on your behalfe and dare not reproach you with it 3. When these divisions did FALL it was whiles our discipline STOOD which shewes that our Discipline bred them not but destroyed them rather Objection 5 To the Margent on Article 3. If an imposed platforme by imperious power be unlawfull in others why doe wee so rigorrously presse others to our president Answ To impose a thing and that by an imperious power which may possibly be erroneous in it self or without evidence to others consciences on whom it is pressed cannot bee lawfull but for us to make the perfect word our patterne then carefully informe others therein and after iâ—formation leade them by it is certainly much differing from the other and farre from a slavish invitation by our selves or rigâ—â—â— pressing of a president upon others both which here he imputes very unjustly to us As God hath kept us hitherto from such imperious rigour so I hope by his grace he will ever doe But wee forbeare giving of our priviledges to such as conform not to our Objection 6 way 1. If it were our way and not Christs Ans it were our great sinne and in part the same with the Prelates of late but to forbeare giving priviledges to such as submit not to the rules of participation is no rigouâ— but such a thing as Christ himselfe would doe if in our places 2. It is no more then all other societies in the world doe who first require conformity before they permit to any the injoyment of their liberties 3. Doe wee any more herein then the Reverend Assembly themselves at this day who would not willingly admit unto Church-imployments and priviledges any of a contrary judgement in point of Discipline And yet I hope you will not say that either these or those exercise rigour But wee will not own such as sister Churches that differ from us though Objection 7 but in some things in Church Discipline Doe not the Churches of England differ from us not onely in some things but in many as W. R. Ans ☜ himselfe saith and yet wee owne them as sister Churches witnesse his owne quoted Authors Discourse of Covenant p. 36. at large Mr. Cottons printed letter All which affirme in effect and some in words that we blesse the wombes that bare us and the paps that gave us suck We intreate W. R. in the spirit of meekenesse to cleare himself from a slaunder in such a generall accusation of his brethren Yet we more rigidly impose our patterne then any Churches ever did Objection 8 How great an aspersion this is I leave others to judge Answ and the Lord himselfe to convince him of Why hath there ever beene so much as any attempt amongst us to suspend excommunicate ☜ deprive banish imprison any for dissenting from us in matters of discipline as of late in England for non-conformity Or to raise a bloody war for Bishops a Service booke as against our Brethren in Scotland or to slander falsifie Authors render many godly Churches odious to the world as W. R. himselfe hath done in this booke meerely for difference from him in point of Church Government We have indeed Civilly Ecclesiastically censured divers there amongst us but it was for obstinacy in weighty points in Religion sedition in the state scandalous practises as also manifest contempt of the Churches of Christ there but not any for inconformity in Church Discipline Answer to CHAP. II. HE saith Art 1. 2. That
and not all integralls into the definition for suppose the Officers of a Church be taken away by death 〈◊〉 it yet I hope he will not say that in the vacancy the Church ceaseth to be Officers are not simply for the being but the well being of a Church See how he adulterates his quotation in two or three Articles of this Chapter 1. He saith his Author assumes Answ to q. p. 10. we hold there is no visible Church but a particular But his Author saith no visible Church properly so called but a particular so W. R. leaves out the middle words just as in Mat. 4.6 whereby the sense is exceedingly altered sith a Church improperly so called is yet a church 2. He saith we currently hold this but his Author speaks modestly in these words we know not any c. Ans to 32. q. pag. 9. Ans to 9. Pos 66. 3. He saith we hold there is no universall visible Church in any sense but his Author saith only we know no such visible Catholike Church wherein the seales are to be dispensed Ans to 9. Pos 66. A man with halfe an eye may discerne this is not square dealing Answer to CHAP. III. THis Chapter is spent in laying downe what qualifications the Churches of new-New-England require in persons of age that are admitted Members He tells us to name but the heads in briefe That they must be reall Saints sincere Beleevers men of meeke and humble spiritâ— and sincere ends and that the Church in admitting of them doth make exact triall 1. by letters of recommendation 2. or testimony of Members 3. experience of their conversation 4. by examination of their knowledge and the worke of grace first in private then in publique 5. that they be such which he saith is much desired as can cleave together in opinion and affection 6. that they cohabite as neere as may be for the better mutuall watchfulnesse 7. that they be such as know what belong to Church Covenant approve it and seeke â—â— I pray W. R. speake now as a Christian and as a man of God â— there any thing in all this you have said that you can blame in our practise 1. for desiring to have all our members if it might be of such a spirituall stampe and character as this and 2. for endeavouring by tryall what lies in us to find out such as say that they are Jewes and are not but doe lye 3. and having discovered such for keeping them from polluting the holy seales and other Ordinances of God to his dishonour and their own ruine 4. or if we as far as our light and line reaches for wee have no spirit of infallability Find them sound in the faith for receiving encouraging comforting them what hurt is in all this I tell you W. R. if your selfe and some others did take more exact pains in the tryall of your people and fitting them for the enjoyment of Church-Priviledges it would never repent you Now although these particulars recited doe justifie us and our proceedings yet marke his dealing first in his Articles then in the Margent of his chapter He tells the world Art 2. That we require in persons to be admitted not only to be common buâ— choyce Christians â—ns It by châ—yâ— he meâ—nâ—s eminent Christians it 's very false for we accept Christians of the lowest forme and never reject any for want of parts or eminency of grace iâ— we can discerne in them an heart smitten with sense of sin and need of Christ joyned with a blamelesse conversation though very weake in knowledge and faith c. we dare not refuse but embosome them in the Lord. And hâ—mselfe when he will speake the naked truth confesseth as much Art 8 tells us what great indulgence we use in the admitting members Let the Reader take notice that upon perusall of his Authors quoted he shâ—ll not find any one sentence or word tending to justifie his saying herâ—in Hee would make men beleeve in Article the second that wee hold if any be admitted that is not a reall Saint he is false matter of the visible Church â—nswer This he boldly affirmes but not one word of proofe nor truth We hold no such thing for a visible Saint may be true matter of a visible Church when admitted a member upon his profession of godlines and taking the Covenant as Achan Iudas Ananias Saphira were all true matter of the visible though not of the invisible Church else they had never beene admitted into the Churches And that our Churches in New-Eng hold so vid. 1. 2. Ans to 32 9. 50. Discourse of the Covenant pag 5. Hence now what will become of all his long Margent to Article 12. where hee keepes a great stirre in confuting us by foure tedious arguments of an error we never held but it 's one of his owne framing So all his labour therein is lost and some dishonour gained he said in his preface he would bring proofe for every materiall thing not proved before yet he breakes his word because he had a minde to have it true that it might reflect upon us He reports That every one that is admitted is brought before the whole Church though never so many to make their Declarations in publike wonders in his margent that we should be so harsh in our dealing as not to betrust the Elders and some private men with their examinations Art 6. He is againe besides the truth Answer for in the Churches where we have lived many yeares we have seene such a tender respect had to the weaker sex who are usually more fearefull bashfull that we commit their triall to the Elders some few others in private who upon their testimony are admitted into the Church without any more adoe And so shew more indulgence to them then W. R. doth to us As for that question in his margent Why may not the Officers be trusted with their examinations c. Ans So they are frequently according to your wish In the same Article he saith That in the publique their Declarations must be to the conviction and satisfaction of all before they can be admitted It 's not so for though some few be unsatisfied Answer they use to submit to the rest and sit downe in their votes unlesse their reasons be such as may convince the Church For his Quotations cited to prove both these last mentioned good Reader doe us the favour but to search Answer to 32 quest pag. 23. 24. and Answ to 9 quest 62. 70. and you shall finde them to justifie him so farre as not to afford him any one word or so much as a shew and countenance All I say to W. R. is this How can this stand with simplicity and truth He would make men beleeve Art 8. that SOMETIMES we goe contrary to our former rigour by using great indulgence in our admitting members as if we were not consistent to our selves and principles through
inconstancy and upon this taxes us in the Margent for so doing Do but marke his dealing in this his proofe of our unconstancy for the self same author page he quoted to prove the rigour of our admissions Answer he cites to prove our indulgence Answ to 32. quest p. 8. he brings this for the one and the other as if the same pen had written contradictions in the same page yet no show of any such thing will appeare if you peruse the place I leave the Reader to judge That such members in one Church in N. E. as are received to the Sacrament in another Church must fiâ—st bring letters of recommendation from their owne Churches Art 7. Though we hold it a convenient thing especially for such as live farre off and altogether unknown to any of the Church Answer where he desires participation of the supper to bring a testimoniall with him yet it is a constant and usuall thing especially if any of the Church knowes them to accept Members of other Churches upon their desire without any letters testimoniall and the Author quoted does him the favour rather to seeme to speake contrary to him then for him for saith the Answer to 32. p. 29. 30. We doe require letters testimoniall from the congregations in old-Old-England for such as come from thence before wee admit them to the Sacramâ—nts whereas such as come from one Church to another in new-New-England we receive because these Churches in N. E. are better knowne to us theâ— the other See him this testimony favours him The last and worst report of all the rest is in Art 12. where hee repâ—â— That if any amongst us doe not seeke and desire Church fellowship in our way 〈◊〉 account them DESPISERS OF IT YEA WICKED AND GRACELESSE PERSONS ☞ â—nsw To which I answer with detestation GOD FORBID Wee speaketâ— as knowing God heares all our words We hope we are farre from such a spirit for we know well that many gratious and pretious Saints there amongst us may and sometimes doe for a good time abstaine from seeking and desiring Church fellowship for other grounds then DESPITE VVICKEDNES AND GRACELESNES Sometimes because they are not setled in a place sometimes because they desire more experience of the Ministers people where they should joyne some for want of cleare light and full conviction of the Church-wayes we walke in and some others out of many feares about their owne spirituall estate before God judging themselves through temptation out of a state of grace and dare noâ— venture upon the Seales c. whom we yet esteemâ— pretious Soules and have laboured by all arguments wee were able to encourage to come into Church fellowship ☞ See what cause therefore he hath in his marginalls to this Article to upbraid us for harshnes uncharitablenesse and forgetting the royall law of love in this point c. whereas he forgets the law of love and trust also in such reports as these are ☞ And for these quotations cited of Answ to 32. q. p. 21. and Answ to 9. pos p 69. wee boldly say and doe here challenge him with it that there is not one word therein to beare him out and therefore I doe here lay this report upon himselfe as the raiser of it let him defend it or humbly take the blame Besides these blurs he puts upon us in the text he attempts no lesse in his large marginall comments on this chap. by many objections raised against us besides those we have taken away already â—bject As that we keepe our Church doores so close shut and why may not faire overtures and shewes of Grace in such as offer themselves be sufficient for admission and what neede such narrow searching and sounding of mens hearts to the bottom and that Christ never made such rules and the Apostles and their Churches never practised the likâ— and that reall and internall holinesse is not required to make a member but only federall and externall c. Answ Doe but see how Church members were wont to be qualified Matt. 3.6 Act. 8 37 38. Acts 19.18.9 Rom. 17. and 15.34 Eph. 1.1 1 Cor. 9.13 2 Cor. 8.5 Where is plainely expressed what frame such were of They confessed their sinnes They professed their Faith They beleeved in the Lord Iesus with all their heart They confessed shewed their worke They openly burnt as many câ—â—iuring bookes as â—â—â—e moâ—th no lesse then fifty thousand peeces of silver They were man beloved of God Called to bee Saints Full of goodnesse filled with knowledge The faith of some of them spoken of through the world Faithfull in Christ Jesus Professed their subjection to Christ gave up themselves first to the Lord and there to the Church by the will of God Now let W. R. speake is here only federall and externall holinesse were here onely faire Overtures and some shewes of grace but if we goe further their his principles carry him Then wee keepe our Church doores too close Then hee cryes out it s against charity against christian wisedome against Justice and all and then why will not Overtures and shewes serve our turnest I tell you these Overtures c shewes W. R. have done mischiefe enough already a man would thinke to Christ his Kingdome and to these poore English Churches it s even hightime sure to presse on further now then Overtures first you were for stinted Liturgies and now pleade for Overtures whither next But to Margent on Article 4. What needâ— we be so nice in our admissions Objection 2 whereas men in Scripture have beene admitted into Church Communion upon one testimony onely as Paul Acts 9.27 upon Barnabas testimony alone and Phoebe Rom. 16.1 upon Paulâ— bare testimony 1. For Paule admission If you would consider Answ 1. The incomparable eminencie of Grace and singular excellency of spirit that was apparent in Paul 2 The high esteeme and credit that Barnabas who gave testimony of him had in the Churches hearts as Acts 11.24 Acts 4.36 Acts 13.2 and 13 7. and 15.25 And thirdly The fulnesse of his testimony which he gave in for Paul Acts 9.27 you will easily answer your selfe that there were more grounds for his admission then ever were required of any member into a New-England Church Secondly For the admission of Phoebe by Pauls testimony only Rom. 16.1 It s answered Pauls bare estimony was more then twenty mens words in the Churches hearts 2 But here is a great mistake for Phoebe was not by Pauls testimony admitted into Church fellowship for she was already a member of the Church of Ceâ—chrea yea and a servant of it too viz. either a widow of that Church or sent from that Church to Rome upon some speciall businesse but shee was only recommended by Paul to the Church of Rome during the time of her abode amongst them not for any admission into the Church at Rome but for assistance in some busines Rom. 16.2 What neede is there of
Verball declarations of the worke of Grace for if they be Object 3 subtile Hypocrites they will deceive you with golden words as Marg. Art 5. 1. It may and doth satisfie our owne consciences Answ if we do use all meanes we can to finde out by the rules of the word whether grace be in them or no it they yet deceive us it s their sin not ours 2. God who often takes the wise in their owne craft 1 Cor. 1.19 laies open such hypocrites while they seeke to deceive others as frequent experience hath shewen us in the very act of their triall 3. Those that are sound doe manifest the sweet smell of their graces by such declarations Therefore it is not bootlesse Object It seemes a thing impossible to such good soules as know not the time manner of their conversion or have forgotten it to give account thereof satisfyingly to a multitude seeing also their manner of inquirie is strict and the matter inquired into the spirituall soule points Answ 1. We wonder we confesse to see a Christian a Minister of God thus to speake If it seemes so impossible for some Christians to give an account of the worke of Grace in them Pet. 3.15 what meant Peter to direct all beleevers to bee alwaies ready to give an answer to every man of the hope that is in them If they must give this answer to all even to persecutors themselves as the Text intends of the grounds of their hope is it impossible that these good soules should render account to their godly brethren who in a loving way demande it and for their owne good too 2. What if they know not the time order manner of their conversion yet if they can give any evidence of Christ now in them by the workings of his Spirit for present though they know not how Christ came at first into them its sufficient Object If an account of their grace must be given were it not better to have a set and standing rule written and recorded without variation in all the Churches ibid. â—nswer Would he have us make a new-New-England Primer a set forme this were a way indeede to bring all to a formall course and to teach every one though no grace or experience at all of Christ in his heart to learne by rote this forme and then all were well W. R. was as we heard even now first for common praiers and then for Overtures and shewes and now you have him for standing formes You shall see him goe further anon are not your fingers singed enough yet with such formalities It s time to cease Obiect Through your strict examinations multitudes of our English in N. E. that were reputed godly are kept out of Church-Order and themselves and little ones little better then heathens Marg. on Art 6. â—â—sw Many for want of examination of themselves and tryall by others that went in common view for sound ones possibly and that not without good cause upon due triall may be found too light when weighed in Gods ballance and its better for such to be discovered here then hereafter to their eternall ruine 2. Many doe keepe out of Church-Order upon sundry other grounds above said and out of choyce and not through strait examination 3 But that the non-admitted are esteemed by us or doe live like Heathens is an untrue and unsavory imputation Where we see any breathings of Christ in any we esteeme them as Christians we love them dearely and carry our selves accordingly to them and theirs though not yet in Church fellowship with us God himselfe is our record against such calumnies where wee see no grace as yet wrought we labour in all meeknesse to bring them to Christ and in meane time take Christian care of them and their little ones as those that may bee heires of the same grace with our selves doe men all this to heathens But why are men of differing opinions and men of harsh and rugged dispositions Object 7 though otherwise Godly kept out from your Churches Marg to Art 9. 1. If mens opinions be such as destroy faith or the power of holinesse Answer as many in new-New-England lately were though now layed prostrate by the light and power of the word or such as doe directly crosse and eradicave the fundamentalls of our Church Governement and the persons that hold these til opinions are factious and turbulent It 's no wonder though we be slow in admitting such as wee know will destroy either the power of godlinesse or our Churches peace but if they dâ—ffer onely in some inferiour points as you speake and be of sober spirits it 's known we admit such and live in peace together with them 2. Wee never knew men of sowre and cynicall dispositions naturally meerely for that if otherwise they appeare godly and labour against such distempers to be kept out of Church-fellowship amongst us But if any man deny the Church Covenant or doubt of it your Church doores Object 8 are shut for ever against him p. 11. end We pray you goods W. R. speake not against common sense Answ How can wee possibly admit him into our Church Covenant that denies the Church-Covenant can wee make him doe that he denies to doe Since Gods people must be a willing people Psal 110.3 Or if he doubts of the lawfulnesse of it is it lawfull for him to enter into it doubtingly or for us to offer it seeing whatsoever is not of faith is sinne Rom. 14. last But to say our Church doores are for ever shut against him is a speech as untrue as harsh for as we waite on God to afford and on him to receive light so we are as glad when he is informed therein are ready to open our Church doores wide to receive him Some other things more slight I passe by in his Marginalls on this Chap. for brevity the substance of all which may bee referred to some or other of these heads Answer to CHAP. IIII. HE saith Art 1. 2. 6. 7. That we account a publike vocall and expresse Covenant to be the onely absolute necessary constituting forme of a true Church without which no true Church nor true members but all 〈…〉 concubineâ— â—sw He utterly mistakes the subject of the question for those Authors hee quotes declare not what it is that makes a TRVE Church but a â—Vâ—â— congregationall Church as it is refined according to the platforme of the Gospel And to such a Church say they is required an explicite Covenant And that they doe intend only such a Church is plaine 1. Because there are in the description of that Church they meane such particulars as himselfe layes it downe Art 6. as can belong only to a pure Church as 1 That they walke in all the holy ordinances of God 2 According to the will of God 3 In one Congregation All which wee know every Church though true doth not ergo 2. If wee hold that to every true Church
this explicite Covenant is necessary for the constituting of it then we should denie the Churches of En for in them is not such an explicite solemne publique Church Covenant to bee true Churches but that is farre from us as Discourse of Covenant p. 36. 37. 38. ergo 3. The expresse words of Answer to 32. quest 38. 39. from which he quotes this 1 Article if consulted with will tell you that a pure Church is the Church intended Therefore it 's cleare when we make such a Covenant as W. R. expresseth necessary it is to a Church as it 's compleated in all her integrals according to the perfection required in the Gospel and not to the essence of every Church This one thing being cleared what will now become of all his Marginal collections exclamations insultations on the 1. 3. 8. Art Hee cryes out of our unheard of rigidnesse as if we would touch the freehold of the Churches of England and all the Churches in the world But all his invectives are as arrowes shot into the aire for we hold no such thing as he exclaimes at We hold saith he That without this solemne expresse Covenant no true Church or Church members but all are harlots and concubines Art 1. the quotes Discourse of Covenant page 14. 18 19 20 21 24. to prove it Answ From what wee last said this falls to the ground as false I say further Blessed be our God wee never were acquainted with such Dialect in out Churches there we hope such sore censures are and shall be farre from us And for the quotations hee makes for these words I marvaile his paper blushed not when he wrote it because himselfe did not for let any man reade over the pages as wee have done and see if one can bee found so much as savoring of such a thing He reports Article 1. that we hold that members are united to Christ by the Church Covenant ☞ 1. A Paradox we never knew before or ever heard of in new-New-England for wee professe freely wee know no meane or instrument of union to Christ but faith in the Covenant of grace 2. This is a device of his owne braine for which we boldly againe challenge him as being a thing not possibly to be proved in any of our quoted writings in print let him if he be able prove himselfe honest by making it good or confesse his fault as becomes a Christian we professe our hearts are justly grieved at this dealing and the Spirit of Christ in heaven also is we feare made sad hereby 3. In this also he contradicts his owne relation Art 3. where he plainly saith that many that be within the Church Covenant are not in the Covenant of Grace and so not in Christ and yet here he saith that by the Church Covenant a man is united to Christ So the Church Covenant doth unite us to Christ and it doth not unite to Christ how can both these be true This is too frequent with him to lay things that are contradictory to our charge and not a word of proofe from the Authors as any ground of it This I lay on him as a further charge He reports Art 2. That we hold that joyning our selves in all holy fellowship cannot knit a man as a member of a Church And quotes Dis of Cov. pag. 21. for his proofe 1. The Authour hath not one word to beare him out 2. We wonder what the man meanes to affirmes this Answ for joyning ones selfe in holy fellowship he knowes is our usuall and frequent description of the Church Covenant when wee speake most punctually to it ☞ and doe commonly for that end cite Jer. 50.5 Act. 9.26 3. That very Authour and page he cites to prove we hold that joyning our selves in holy fellowship cannot knit a man as a member in Covenant speakes directly the contrary in these words When joyning saith the Authour is used for a mans taking on him voluntarily a new relation as in this case hee doth there it alwaies implies a Covenant In Art 3. and 4. he would make as though we our selves speak contrary to our selves in the one place he saith we hold our Church Covenant to be distinct from the Covenant of Grace in the other place That it is not distinct but as a part from the whole But we must digest grosser things then this in his narrations consult with his Author and you shall see nothing to countenance him yea he quotes the same Authors for both In Art 7. He tells us We hold our Church Covenant must be vâ—call but proves it not by any one testimony wee can reade and its contrary wee are sure to our constant practise that admits members into the Church by a Covenant agreed to by their silence only and as it is contrary to our practise so to our writing in the discourse of the Covenant which expressly saith that silent consent is sufficient and there proves it by Gen. 17.7 and Deut. 29.10 Whereas hee had reported before of our rigorous exacting of our Covenant and how it must be vocall and expresse or it would not serve our turne nay no Churches at all without this explicit Covenant c. Now in Art 8. he puls downe all he hath built and tells us that we hold that a bare consent and agreement to be members will serve And that mens implicit intentions to doe such a thing may suffice â—sw 1. Hee grosly falsifies his Authour brought to prove this minsing of the Covenant Discourse of Covenant p. 21. 22. where is not one word that way and which much aggravates he still quotes the very same Author and p. for our minsing of the Covenant that he did in Art 1. for our rigorous exacting of it 2. He slandereth us to make the world beleeve we run contrary waies sometimes by over rigorous exacting the Covenant sometimes againe that after all our rigour we bring it so low almost to nothing whereas in all our writings I professe it solemnly there is no shew at all of any such differing practise 3. Hence also the ground being rotten his Marginall construction falls on his owne head ☞ 4. Hee doth not only abuse his Authour and us but himselfe also who said in Cap. 1. Art 2. That New-England Churches walke in the same way without any materiall difference and yet this is the third time he hath taxed us for grosly differing from our selves How can these things be See how many grosse faulterings in one poore article what are in all his book He sets downe two of the formes of the Church Covenants which any savory and gratious spirit viewing over and surveighing the godly simplicity of them cannot one would thinke but approve and relish yet see this mans spirit so prejudiced against us and all things wee doe that he cannot choose but without reason finde fault with divers innocent passages therein As 1 That wee promise willingly and meekely to submit to Christian Discipline
without murmuring 2. That we willingly will doe nothing to the offence of the Church but bee willing to take advice for our selves and ours as occasion shall be presented 3. That we will not be forward in the congregation to shew our owne parts and gifts in speaking or scrupling nor discover the failings of our brethren ☞ Now what spirit but W. R. would startle scoffe and quarrell as hee doth in his marginalls pag. 17. 18. 19. at such plaine-hearted and found expressions as these being all clearely grounded on Scripture He is angry with us also that we mention not in our Covenants more particular sinnes and duties then we doe and yet is offended that wee mention any at all how shall we please him ☞ He tells us againe that the former of these Covenants is us fit for wedding as the constitution of a visible Church And then flies from new-New-England to some particular Persons here who being Ministers of Churches there saith he yet accept of settled imployments even charge of soules here and how can they watch over their Church I know but two Ministers of the Churches there Answ that are in England at this time and how far both those are from setled imployment much more from taking livings as these words charge of soules imply God their owne consciences and the people to whom they at present preach can testifie little to the comfort and credit of any that thus slaunder them I advise him to reflect upon his words and see if there be not somthing in them to be repented of and recalled But how can such so far distant watch over their Church and é contrà Object That hand of Providence that upon weighty causes and with their Answ peoples consent first led them hither and upon like necessary grounds beyond expectation still detains them here takes them off at present from performing that duty of watchfulnesse over their people ☜ as in like manner it doth to other Persons that are absent from their Families and Churches by long sea-voyages warres c. And yet note that W. R. is the more blamable in these carpings at the Covenants mentioned because he is convinced in his conscience as his own words are Pag. 17. 1. That all things in those two formes of the Covenant in a faire construction are very good 2. That if any other interpretation be made of any thing therein it is no better then an harsh constuction It is not without a speciall finger of God that himselfe should first commend the matter of the Covenants to be very good and blame any other construction that should be made of it as harsh And yet should imediately in his very next words fall upon such harsh constructions in sundry particulars as he hath done He reports in Art 11. as strange and grosse an untruth to call it by the fairest terme and that without any ground at all i. e. That we hold that this our Church Covenant as it is distinguished from the covenant of Grace is that Covenant which is sealed by the Sacraments and for the sealing and ratifying of which the Sacraments were principally ordained of God I stand amazed at this report wherein these 4. things lie plaine Ans which he must prove we hold 1. That our Church-Covenant is that covenant which is sealed by both Sacraments 2. That this Church Covenant thus distinguished from the covenant of Grace is sealed by the Sacraments 3. That the sealing of this Church Covenant was the end of Gods ordaining the Sacraments 4. The principall end W. R. Now prove all these else you will prove your selfe unfaithfull All his proofe we can see is Ans to 9. Pos p. 63. 66. I 'le relate the very words that he may have nothing to alleadge Baptisme saith the Author serves to seale to our Justification as circumcision did yet not that alone but also the whole covenant i. e. of Grace with all the priviledges as Adoption Act. 2.38 and sanctification Gal. 3.26.27 Tit. 3.5 fellowship with Christ Tit. 3.5 The salvation of our Soules Mat. 20.23 and the resurrection of our Bodies 1 Pet. 3.21 and not only the covenant of Grace which is common to all beleevers but Church covenant also which is peculiar to confederates according to 1 Cor. 2.15.29 Now here is not said that the Church Covenant is the thing sealed much lesse the principall end of this ordaining the Sacraments least of all that the Church Covenant as distinguished from the covenant of Grace is the principall end of the Sacraments but all that is said is this that though Justification and the whole Covenant of Grace be the principall things sealed in their circumcision and our Baptism yet all the priviledges of the covenant of Grace and the Church covenant also are not without their share and benefit in the Sacrament How far this expression comes short of his assertion let others judge Now see his marginal note upon this Art Here is saith this commenter a peece or two of such Divinitie as I never read but Vno absurdo dato mille sequuntur I could resort Here is such an absurd foysting in of untruths as I never hardly read in Heathen or Christâ—an writers and having taken libertie in a few things at first now they come in by troopes As he hath had very ill successe hitherto all the chapter through let us see if he will speed any better at the last close He saith Art 12. Infants that were admitted Members by the covenant of their Parents are not yet permitted to receive the Lords Supper when they are come to yeeres untill 1. They have run through all the foresaid course of publike private examination 2. Profession of their faith 3. Declaration of the manner of their confession 4. Personall vocall and expresse entering into the same covenant as others of yeers have done before them and as if they never had beene made Members before And for this practise he cites only Ans to 32. q. p. 20. 21. How he deales herein see that place If there be not more in his promises then are in his proofe All that the Author saith is this That there ought to be a renewing of their covenant or a new profession of their interest in the covenant and walking according to it and professeth modestly too these are but their present thoughts not settled determinatively for want of occasion to bring it into practise yet he brings him in as speaking conclusively and with a lumber of additions deviations alterations of his own putting in for where is now his running through all the foresaid courses of private and publike examination he mentions where is his declaraition of the manner of their conversion Where is his personall vocall and expresse entering intr the same covenant as if they had never beene received Members before Whose words are all these Nay the Author expresly tells us that children are entered into Church covenant already and doe but renew
forming of the Covenant be the worke of some one or two at first for how can it otherwise be yet it is never imposed on any but all that are to enter into Covenant have full liberty to consider and consult about the matter or forme of it or give reasons for addition or alteration of any thing in it So that the forme of it as well as the matter is by his owne act or consent at least and after all if hee hath not light and ground he is in no case forced to it If this be so he should not have called it an imposing of the covenant upon the members 2. The other is mistaken likewise For any Church hath and taketh liberty as they shall see just cause if there be a defect or error in the matter or forme of their Covenant made at first to alter it and renew it before the Lord and bind not themselves to continue in any oversight because they once fell into it and some Churches have so done But wâ— may here see what a taske W. R. hath undertaken to make Narratives of Church-courses in such places where himselfe never came but rests upon uncertaine and various relations This is one reason why he so often stumbles in the darke and rusheth upon so many foule mistakes in every Chapter I hope it will instruct him for future times Semel insanivimus omnes Answer to CHAP. V. HE is at a sett in Art 1. and 2. and their Marginalls and falls a wondering at the contradiction in them For in Art 1. hee saith That men may in New England constitute a Church without consent from the Magistrate or neighbour Churches yet in Art 2. that there is a generall Court-law that no Church shall bee set up in new-New-England without the consent of the Magistrate and neighbour Churches Hereat he stands amazed and sets his Reader to doe so too â—ns I will doe him the favour to helpe him out of this straight and salve his credit by telling him There is no contradiction at all in his Articles doe but distinguish of times and you untie the knot For there was a time in New-England for some few yeares space before such a law was made and then Churches did use to gather without any notice given to Magistrates or other Churches But after the opinions grew on and experience discovered the danger there was a law made that none must constitute any Church but first give notice thereof to Magistrates and Churches and since that this course is duly observed So both your Art W. R. you see are true and your report honest and right Yet withall let me give you a few Animadversions by way of brotherly counsell and I pray take them well 1. See what it is to wrong so many godly Saints and faithfull Churches upon private various informations and your own mistakes and so breake that 9. Commandement of our ever blessed God 2. Whiles you live undertake no more Narratives of Church-courses in places you are no better acquainted withall lest at unawarrs unhappily you speake evill of things you know not 3. When a matter lies before you that admits a double construction be sure you ever take it in the better and not in the worser sense In those two reports you see one good sense which indeed is the truth and that I have given you Another bad and that your selfe have taken for when you stood amazed in your Marginalls at the contrarietie of the reports in the conclusion who must be beaten but either your Informer or else New-England Churches for practising such foule yea more foule contradictions as you are pleased to speake and yet note you see neither he nor they but your selfe only is in all the blame For the proofe of both these 1. 2. Articles whom doth he produce for the 1. Article but the Ans to 32. q. p. 43. where there is not one word nor jot to prove that the Churches in new-New-England are erected without the Magistrates cogniscence Then for the proofe of both the Articles where this contradiction lies he produceth R. M. to W. R. and makes him the father of that monstrous birth of a foule contradiction now this R. M. is a godly Reverent Teacher of a Church there who would not write such a seeming contradiction without clearing of it some way or other Ever have we found him sober and wary in all his expressions 2. This R. M. is his old loving friend also who I know doth dearly respect him now I beseech you W. R. in the bowells of Christ to consider if this be an act of love towards your deare friend without his consent to discover his letters to the world which were written to your selfe in private for those that know you both cannot but know who this R. M. to W. R. is 2. to make him the Author of contradictions 3. so to fall upon him in your Margent whom you know so loving a friend and so godly a man as one that reports to you such things for truth as they neither hold nor practise in N. E. Which is little better then to give him the lye I leave my thoughts with you desiring you to take notice of it In Art 3. 4. to the end of the chapter he reports and that truly excepting some few mistakes the manner of the first constitution of a Church in new-New-England As That such Persons as are to enter into Church fellowship doe beforehand often meete privately to be inwardly acquainted with each other spirits by conference prayer mutuall examination of each other till they have approved themselves to each others conscience as in the sight of God and before they joyne they give notice to the Magistrate and neighbour-Churches that such as please may be present at the place and time of their meeting to give them advice direction c. the day appointed is kept with fasting prayer and preaching c. towards the end of the day each of those persons now to be Churched makes publike profession of his faith and the worke of grace in his soule c. when the Messengers of the Magistrates and Churches have heard and considered if they be unsatisfied or any stander by they make their objections c. and if still unsatisfied they forbid them to enter into Church fellowship and so remain without the pale of the Church as they did before but if they be satiâ—fied the said Persons enter into covenant then the said Messengers give them the right hand of fellowship and returning back make report to their Churches that sent them Now what can W. R. Answer or any man object against the substance of things done in this relation some mistakes only excepted in the laying of it downe One would thinke the godlinesse of the Person joyning the plainnesse and sincerity of their dealing from the beginning to the end their care and indeavour to doe all as becomes Saints and to begin this holy weighty
businesse as in the sight presence of God with fasting prayer at least should stop mens mouths from speaking ill of them and their wayes Yet W. R. failes in his dealing with them in divers points which I desire to advertise him of in the spirit of meeknesse In that offensive phrase saying those Persons come now to be Churches he well knowes the meaning of that word It doth not become gravitie and holinesse to give such deriding words nor ludere cum sanctis God heares all our words and sees the scope of our hearts therein But if he meant innocently in it I should be sorrie that I once named it He speakes twise both in Art 6. and 8. of the Messengers of the Magistrates sâ—nt to the gathering of the Churches â—nsw But there is no such thing done the Magistrates come themselves in person if they can or if not they send no Deputies or Messengers the Churches indeed send Messengers commonly their Elders to lend them a word of counsell if they need being more experienced in those ways then coÌ„monly new beginners are to joyne their prayers with theirs to give them the right hand of fellowship But the Magistrates send no Deputies He reports in Art 8. That if the Messengers or any standers by be unsatisfied they make their objections as they thinke fit untill they be satisfied Then in his Marginalls upon it It 's an hard thing saith he to satisfie all commers in what they please If any objection be against his life it must be presently and openly declared before the country This is little wisedom lesse charity â—ns Here are many unwise and uncharitable passages laid unjustly to our charge and all those without any proofe at all but onely H. W. I. W. who knowes where to consult with them As 1. That any stander by yea all commers may question or object 2. and that even what they please 3. if any failings be in their lives they are presently and openly declared before all the country Which things are nothing so For 1. None may speake a word but soberly and orderly And 2. not without leave desired and granted 3. nor how much hee will nor what hee please but things very weighty and necessary And 4. not of any failings to their disparagement For if they be unsatisfied with any of them in point of discipline or matters of fact they are first to deale with them in private seeing they know before both the Persons that are then to joyne and the time and occasion of that daies meeting And I am confident never a Godly sober man will write other wise It 's little wiâ—dome or charity I am sure for him to affirme things so contrary to the truth That if the M ssengers be unsatisfied with any of those that are about to enter into Church fellowship they are forbidden to enter into Church estate â—nswer This is as wide as the rest For the Messengers never arrogated to themselves such power to this day nay they professedly expresse against it constantly in such meetings as to forbid their entrance into Church estate The most they doe at any time in this case is to desire leave to be faithfull in interposing their counsell and that only when they see very great cause And withall leave them to their Christian liberty Now having answered to the Articles we will speake something to those of the Marginalls on this 5. chapter which are not touched already He tells us Mar. to Art 2. that there are too many here who runne the same Church-courses with us that hold that the Magistrate hath nothing to doe with the first table But 1. he knowes or may know at least that this opinion is utterly against our Judgement practise and established Iawes in New-England Answ therefore it no way concerns us 2. Nor doth it any whit reflect upon our cause which he is too ready upon this or any occasion to disgrace for none are more dependant upon Magistracy then those they call Independants from whose principles they never sucked that dangerous opinion therefore he did not well to give such by-blowes to innocent persons and waies 3. If this should be a blot to our cause that some of our Church-way hold ill opinions let him make it appeare that none of his way are grosly tainted with Popish and Arminian leavin or else blot out this Margent He saith Margent to Art 2. It seemes to him we have little lesse then a compound Presbyterie set up amongst us and Church-Canons in act though not in rule and gives his instances for this 1. As it is saith he an agreement amongst the Churches and Ministers that no Church shall be set up there without the knowledge of other Churches There is a compound Presbyterie 2. That no man shall preach or vent any new or uncouth tenants untill first he hath communicated them with his fellow Ministers A very good Canon 3. That such as are to enter into Church estate do use to meete together before hand to acquaint themselves in private with each other spiritual estate a Canon 1. Doe Canons bind people to obedience Answer so farre only as they please to agree unto them and no further these Canons are an agreement 2 Doe Presbyteries consist of whole Churches for he saith as it is an agreement of Churches as well as Ministers its little lesse then a compound Presbyterie If Ministers and people both doe rule who shall be ruled over by this Presbyterie 3. He answers the thing and contradicts himselfe both at once for he saith Art 2. this giving notice to Magistrates and Churches of a Church to be erected is by a law of the generall court and cannot be as he saith in Margent and agreement of Churches therefore no Ecclesiasticall Canon Suppose many Godly Ministers in London should agree amongst themselves that every one should preach downe the superstition of that they call Christmas and promise each other that till they should give in their reasons to the contrary they would not preach for or against discipline would W. R. call this agreement a Presbyterie or a Canon Let him see then how extreamely wide he is in the other If Churches saith he send Deputies or Messengers to represent themselves and to act in their room why not in a Synod as well Marg. to Art 6. â—nsw If Churches send their messengers or chosen men to conferre and consult onely in a Synod in their names without any Authority of concluding and determining of matters or much lesse binding their Churches to what they determine of which is our case in new-New-England as we have said I know nothing against such a practise But if Synods doe more and goe further his allegation is to no purpose If so much time saith he be spent in joyning seven or eight persons together into one Church how much time would be requisite to ioyne 3000 together but the Apostles went a shorter way Marg. to
Art 10. â—sw Consider first 1 The Gifts Graces and abilitie of discerning that were in the Apostles above any Minister now living who as they were able to preach with lesse time of studie so to dispatch and turne over weighty businesse with more speede and dexterity then we are 2 The extraordinary wonderfull and visible stroke of God upon the spirits and hearts of men that heard Peter at that time the meeting the language their understanding of it Gods assistance of Peter and blessing on the word all extraordinary Such a day such a Sermon such effects as never were before nor like to be to the end of the world so the power of God was remarkable in their conversion so also in their expression and demonstration of it So that there needed little triall when God spake himselfe from Heaven Answer to CHAP. VI. HE reports to recite such things onely as most neede Answer and let the rest passe Art 1. 2. That we hold that Christ hath invested with all power any that are in Church-fellowship that though they be all illiterate yet they may make examine all their Officers unmake depose them when they see cause so to doe and preach expound and apply the word with all Authority yea and doe it without any refâ—rence at all to their Officers as Officers when they have them â—nsw If I did delight in retorting I could say of these words as hee of Holland Ministers Apologie They are a meere Gull for almost so many words so many mistakes The Narratour should have done well first to have proved all the Churches and Ministers in new-New-England men out of their wits and voide of common sense and then hee might more easily have made the world beleeve they hold and practise such a congeries of absurdities and impossibilities For else many of them there being well known to bee learned godly and sober men no wise men will beleeve him that they can hold that 1. Illiterate men can examine Pastors fitnesse 2. Depose them at pleasure 3. Preach expound and apply the word with all authority 4. And that without any reference to their Officers at all 5. And which is mâ—st strange that Christ himselfe hath invested these illiterate ones with all power to doe all these things For 1. It is a received practise amongst us that when any combine into a Church there is one at least of them indued with able parts of humane and divine learning that either hath been a Minister in our native countrey or is fit to be one amongst them who usually and frequently preacheth to them after they are united So that al of them are not men illiterate ☜ and W. R. himselfe knowes this to be true for the Answer to the 32. quest 42. which is very page hee here quotes directly saith this in so many words 2. That those illiterate men do examine their Ministers abilities and that we hold they ought is another great mistake for so wee should put men upon a worke beyond their reach which were idle whereas the truth is that if the sufficiâ—ncy of such men as they intend to call into office bee not well knowne to them they use to call in the helpe and assistance of Elders in other Churches to surveigh their abilities and to informe them therein that thereby as well as by their owne experience of them and discerning of their gifts they may be able to give in their suffrage for election when the time comes 3. For their unmaking and deposing them againe when they see cause Wee hold and professe it a thing most injurious to Jesus Christ himselfe in heaven to his Ministers on earth and such a thing as not only Christ will summon Churches at the great day to answer unto but our Churches there will also expect satisfaction from them for it if they should thus depose Ministers as he saith when they see cause unlesse Christ himselfe shall see good cause to allow their fact to be done according to the rules of his owne word Wee are so farre from holding this that wee protest against such practises And to shew how wary wee are in this point no Church dares trust her owne judgement but our manner is as his quoted Authour speakes Answer to 34. q. of p. 41. Our practise is in removall of Ministers to have counsell and assistance from sister Churches 4. Whereas he saith also That we hold that men illiterate should preach with all authority which is a worke and a taske for the ablest Ministers to performe is as farre from us as any of the other For though wee deny not but in some case some able judicious experienced Christians may humbly soberly when necessity requires as in the want of Ministers being invited thereunto dispence now and then a word of exhortation to their brethren This is farre enough from Preaching in an ordinary way with all Authority which are words of his owne put in without any ground 5. But for him to adde that we hold they may thus preach when they have Officers and that without any reference at all to them is extreamly contrary to our practise and furthest from the truth For this would directly crosse Christ his institution of calling Officers in his Church and make meere cyphers of them whose Office it is not onely to preach but to rule and governe the Assembly to open the doore of speech to any in the congregation and to shut it up by silence so that none may so much as speak without his allowance ☞ And this expression of his is contrary to his owne Narration in Art 8. where he saith That some of the Acts we ascribe to our Ministers in Office are to declare unto their people the minde of God and to moderate in Church-meetings yet here he speakes cleane contrary to himselfe and the truth also ☞ 6. For him to adde That wee hold that Christ hath invested these illiterate men with all power to doe all these things so farre beyond their power and all ordinary possibility contrary to all rule and to his owne institution is to put upon us one of the grossest absurdities that ever was heard of even to make Christ crosse himselfe and to be a patron of confusion in his owne house by investing them with all power to oppose his owne rules of Order Now let us see what grounds our Nartatour hath to lay all these charges against us You will thinke sure his proofes are strong or hee would never have ventured to blemish so many thousands of Gods faithfull I servants in such sore accusations as these True hee quotes many and that I might see his bottom I have surveied all the printed Authors in every page quoted ☞ and I solemnly professe it that none of these particulars rehearsed as hee hath laid them downe much lesse in them all will any of them beare him out and I desire the Reader to try whether
whereas the truth is we neither hold so nor practise so but bring as few matters as possible into the Assembly rather labouring to take all things up in private and then make as short work in publique when they must needs come there as may be Now what will become of that long Marginall wherein so ungroundly he makes invectives against us and our popular government as he is pleased injuriously to terme it for making store of worke in our congregations in hearing debating examining all matters till all be satisfied which will take up saith he not an hower or two in a weeke nor in every day of the weeke nor scarce all the whole weeke time will suffice to finish businesse in that kind that may fall out and tire Ministers and People and breake the Sabbath by keeping Courts thereon c. And so goes on at random to speake evill of things he knowes not whereas many of our Churches are oft for many dayes together and weekes and moneths also free from such heapes of matters as he dreames of and oftentimes from any at all But this is his dealing first he makes an Article of his own for words matter manner with divers universalls in it expresly contrary to the truth and without one word of authority for it and then drawes his own collections from it with course language and bitter invectives In Art 11. he deales exceeding ill at least in 6. particulars in this one Article 1. He represents us to the world as a people unsetâ—ed and strangely divided amongst our selves in the way of voting Some saith he affirme that the major part carries matters others that unlesse all doe agree nothing proceeds some that things are not carryed by voyces at all but by truth and according to God 1. Let the Reader note well Answer that our Narrator undertakes to relate the Opinions and practises generally held by the Churches in new-New-England as in the title pag. 1. And that the Churches in new-New-England walke in one way And yet here he brings 3 relations crossing each other of our practises in a very materiall point of Discipline How can the Churches practise one way and yet goe 3. contrary wayes at once and how can he truly relate such things as are generally held by all the Churches and yet tells us how they hold and practise 3. severall things at the same time For I confesse if he had undertaken to declare the practises of some particular men only and not of Churches or of some Churches not of the Churches of new-New-England in generall Or if all those Churches were not of one and the same way but he professeth they are and that without any materiall difference then his taske were easier to show how they walke in 3. severall waies at once But now I leave him to untie the knot and save his credit 2. Here he pretends to bring Authors to prove that the Churches in new-New-England ☞ who walke in one and the same way doe walke in 3. severall waies Doe his Authors speake true how then doe we walke in one and the same way without any materiall difference as he said when he would make his advantage by it doe they speake false why then doth he bring such for the ground of his Narrative that so abuse him and us or else doth he mistake their words or falsifie them that is worst of all In either of which we must needs innocently suffer Here you see his speech verified in his Postscript pag. 50. That whether the reports he brings be true or false it 's nothing to him 3. Now we will scan his Authors quoted to see whether the blame lies on them or himselfe the first pretended proofe is Ans to 32. q. pag. 60. 61. 62. That the whole body must agree else nothing can be done Whereas this Author saith no such thing but the contrary rather that is That if the whole body accord not at first but the minor part disagreeth there are other means partly within themâ—â—lves and partly by calling in helpâ— from other Churches to bring matters to an issue This plainly sheweth that some things may be done when all agree not The 2. proofe is for this That some things are not carryed by voâ—â—es at all but by truth and right according to God And cites Ans to 32. q 58 60. who saith to this effâ—ct that the word is the only rule whereby all Churâ—h votes are carryed and that matters are not to be carryed only that is farre enough from not a all by multitudâ—s of voices For though the word of truth we all grant be the only rule of Church proceedings yet the means of all transactions in our Church must be the lively voices of the Saints c. Thus his proofs failing who must be the father of this untruth cast upon new-New-England you may well judge ☞ 4. Note yet further whereas he quotes Ans to 32. q. 61. to prove that unlesse all agree nothing can be done Yet from the same Author and selfe-same page in the end of this same 11. Art he concludes that though some diâ—agree yâ—t matters may bâ— ended and the rest proceed That as he often speakes contrary to himselfâ— so he can make his Author doe the same if he list and can as ships use to doe at sea saile contrary waies with the same winde 5. And yet which is worse then the other he would seeme to hide and cloake this deaâ—ing of his and lay the fault upon our variablenesse and say sometimes they grant c. as if we were like the wind sâ—metimes one way and somâ—timâ—s another yet all is from the same Author in the same page at the same time And often you will find this word sometime to be brought in throughout the booke in the same sense as here to make the world beleeve that our judgements and practises are variable and to defend him selfe from a blow in case he be questioned 6. If a lesser number saith he dissent from the greater neither can give satisfaction to them or will receive it from them and è contra but still persist in dissenting then the major part after due forbearance and calling in the counsell of neighbouring Churches admonish and censure them This he saith in the Margent is harsh dealing and uncharitable and foolish yea destructive and spares no words that might lay loade upon us Yea but it may be his grounds for proofe are sound and so he may be the more bold to blame us but he cites onely Answer to 32. q. 58. 61. whose words are If it appeares that such â—s dissent from the maior part be factiously or partially carried and after the rest have laboured to convince them by the rule yet still they continuâ— obstinate they are admonished c. Now speak W. R. is this faire dealing first to pretend proofes ☜ leave out the most materiall words and secondly blame us for harshnesse when there is no
termes contradictory and how the Churches of new-New-England for they are still the subject of this discourse can binde all their members to bee setled and yet allow some to bee transient I know not Hee must grant either a contradiction in his owne words or prove one in our practise 2. He affirmes we say That whosoever is not a member of such a Church as is before described i. e. A new-New-England Church is for the time without the visible Church of Christ and quotes Ans to 32 q. pag. 11. That Author is abused for hee saith not Answer that non-members of such a Church as you described i. e. of a N. E. Church are without the visible Church â—ns to 32. q. 38. but that if men be not members of some particular Church or other they may in some respect be said to bee without the power and priviledges of the visible Church as the Answ to 9. pos p. 62. to which this Author points makes it evident Now W. R. I hope knowes we hold there are other particular congregations both in England and else where besides our owne that are true Churches of Christ of any of which if they be members it is sufficient to make them within the visible Church of Christ Yet see how against our expressed judgements plaine words and the minde of his Authors hee would make us odious by laying such a grosse tenent to our charge 3. That whosoever doe not become setled members of our Churches are accounted despisers c. yea wicked and prophane â—nswer Hee againe rowles the same unhappy stone he did once before cap. 3. art 12. but you will say sure his proofes are strong which make him bold to assert this now the second time Therefore I intreate the Reader but to review his proofs which I will relate verbatim Ans to 9. Pos 62. is one of them he brings which saith thus We maintaine communion with all godly persons though they be not in Church fellowship with us and Idem p. 69. To be without Church fellowship is the case of some beleevers and Ans to 32. q. 11. is another of his quoted Authors whose words are these Some Christians that are not without Christ yet are not within any particular Church ☞ These are the Authors and pages he brings to prove the cleane contrary i. e. that we account all non-members wicked and prophane men and yet they directly say Some such are godly persons beleevers Christ c. Yea he hath an expression as he layes it downe exceeding grosse which is this That whosoever doth not become a setled member if possibly he can sinneth And marke what followeth whether he can or no he is accounted prophane and wicked He would make us up for the most absurd men that ever lived that whether mâ—n can possibly for so his word is inioy Church fellowship or no he is counted a prophane man But the blemish will and must needs fall upon himselfe To Marg. of 1. Art hee propounds 5 questions concerning transient members 1. Q. If it be very inconvenient and discommodious to ioyne at present may they not delay a while He answereth we say no but the place to which he points Ans to 32. 〈◊〉 quest p. 38. saith not so but thus A man is alwaies bound to join himselfe to some Church or other if possibly he can Now doth not W. R. know there is a pâ—ssibility of convenience which the Answer must needs meane for it 's a constant and allowed course in new-New-England for more to forbeare joyning to any Church for a time after they come thither meerly to avoyd discommodious inconveniencies which over hasty joyning sometimes puts men upon 2. Quest Why doe we not give the same liberty to all to be transient Mâ—mbers as we doe to some Ans Because all are not so free to abide with this or that Church where they joyne at present as others are by reason of some strong desires and pre-ingagements of joyning with some other congregation which at present they cannot remove unto or else the other as yet not entred into Church-fellowship and so unfit to receive them at present 3. Quest How doth this agree with the tenour of the Covenant that limits no timâ— Ans There may be and is such a clause put into the Covenant of a transient member viz. during their abode with that congregation Quest 4. How doth this agree with the sense of the Covenant that binds them to aske counsell of the Church in case of removeall Ans I know not what informations he hath received I should know our practise as well as W. R. after my 10. yeers experience having beene present at very many Church-gatherings but I never heard or heard of such a clause put into any Covenant and yet three times in his booke he mentionâ— this Let him learne hereafter 1. to be slow in beleeving informations 2 slower to print them to the world 3. ready to retract them if nor done already He saith Art 5 That if the examiners conceive a man not fit to enter into Church fellowâ—â—â—p thâ—â— he is there staid without any further proceedings He should hâ—ve added only for the present else he leaves the Reader to conceive that such a person is staid from Church fellowship for ever which himsâ—â—â—e knowes to be untrue as appeares by his own words in the 7. Art w â—re he saith that such a Person is staid only for a time whiles all things are cl ared To his Margent Art 7. That if the party be a Woman or weake who is to be admitted then their examination are taken more privately Answer Is not this contradictory to what he said Chap. 3 Art 6. ☜ That the declaration of their knowledge and grace must be made in publique before all the Church though never so many Now to presse all to make their declaration before the whole Assembly yet to accept of some weaker ones doing of it more privatly which indeed is the truth are a contradiction Here he makes two objections Objection 1 How shall the Church know the fitnesse of such i. e. as are examined in private Answ By the testimony of such godly men whom they betrust with their triall who though they have not absolute power to determine yet making such report to the Church as they accept the Church proceede to admit them â—bject Why is this favour shewen to some not to others is not this to be partiall contrary to 1 Tim. 5.21 Answ Partiality is to respect the Person not the cause here the cause is respected not the Person or the Person for the cause Some being more weake and fearfull we rather tender as Jacob would not overdrive the feabler sort of Ewes and lambes lest they should miscarry Art 9. He reports That infants of parents that are no members are accounted to be without the visible Church and in the same estate with the Children of Turkes and Heathens c.
and writes in the Margent cold comfort to Christstian Parents and cold charity to their Infants â—nsw 1. It were cold comfort indeed if that he said were true but blessed be God it is not so For though such infants be not as yet Members of this or that particular Church there yet he knowes we account them and their Parents Members of the visible Churches of England witnessâ— our writings in print discourse of Covenant pag. 36. c. Therefore he much forgets himselfe to say we account them to be without the visible Church 2. To say we esteeme them as Children of Turkes and Heathens is a most uncharitable and groundlesse censure unworthy of his penne or our practise to which we answered before The Lord forgive him such hard speeches For his quotations Ans to 33. q. 20. 21. and Ans to 9. Pos 61. 62 if they will afford him the least word or show for either of these particulars I l'e take the blame for ever let any please to peruse them But he forgets the law in Israel of amercing and striping the man that brings an ill report upon a Virgin of Israel I must mind him of it Answer to CHAP. VIII This chapter is spent especially the Margent in invectives against the strictnesse of our Church Covenant that restrains men that they cannot have elbow roome and be at loose end when they please I will gather the strength of all he speakes in this chapter into some objections and very briefly answer them Object A member saith he cannot remove from a Church without our consents sought and obtained Art 1. â—ns It crosseth the nature of all Covenants in the world for to dissolve the Covenant without the consent of the other And shall this engagement so solemne so sacred so deliberate be loosed at pleasure by a mans removal wheÌ„ whither he pleaseth it may be also not without apparant sin without acquainting the Church withal getting approbation froÌ„ theÌ„ The Church may be partiall in their own cause may not some of other Churches Object 2 be consulted withall rather then this pag. 32. Marg. Shall a man infringe this Covenant Answ deprive the Church of her proper right and lay her under blame of partiality upon a meere supposall that the Church may be partiall Let this Church be first consulted withall rather then any other and good reason too for the Covenant is made with her and if it appeare she is indeed partiall then let the counsell of other Churches and Ministers be called in which was never yet denied any Member and I hope never will be But what need a man consult with the whole Church what if his reasons be secret Object 3 c. The Covenant being made with the whole Answ reason speakes the whole ought to untie the knot But if there be some case extraordinary where the grounds of removall may not safely be divulged to all as I confesse it 's possible so to happen let the partie but intimate so much to the Church and desire that some two ot three faithfull men be intrusted and what hinders If the Church covenant binds so fast then as the Disciples said of marriage Object 4 it is not good to touch this covenant pag. 32. 1. A gracious sp irit counts it no bondage but freedome Answ to be constantly under the sweet yoake of Christ in Gospell duties and such and no other are the particulars of our Covenant ah Ex. 21.5.6 let none be weary of this but all be as the servant in the Law that might have gone out free yet loving his Master well chose rather to abide with him for ever 2. Yet it any man be desirous and stedfastly bent to depart the Church never holds him against his will though she sees little or no weight in his reasons and I hope it is not the case of marriage so easily to be dissolved But if the Church be not satisfied with his reasons he goes away tacitely accused Object 5 slandered yea virtually cast out and curst Sure I am this is accusing slanderous and curst language Ans Deut 22. â— 19. not fit for a sober grave man by that law in Israel W. R. would goe neere to be amercied and striped for this defamation What would he have them doe when they cannot be satisfied with the grounds of his departure must they needs act against light and conscience and say they are satisfied when they are not especially when they see a brother haply running into evill or danger by such a removall All they can doe is through indulgence to suspend their vote and leave him to his own liberty And yet they will neither accuse or slander him much lesse curse him or cast him out These are words fit for nothing but retraction and repentance If men be once â—â—tred into covenant he is so riveted into it that he can hardly Object 6 ever get out of it but must continue in it though perhaps against his conscience Ibid. Answ To my best remembrance I never heard of or knew any godly Church-member that repented of this Church-way desired upon that ground to make a retreate 2. If any should be convinced in his conscience as you say that there is sin in it and should after all meanes of information used solemnely profes and make it appeare ingenuously that he dareth not in conscience proceed on in those waies I know no Church that will detaine him Object 7 How shall this man thus dismissed without the Churches approbation and Letters of recommendation be received into any other Church â—nswer How many lines doth he spend to no purpose about untying this knot and when he cannot unloose it ☞ for that he knows not our practises there he falls out extreamely with us and our way as harsh and rigid I have read of Harpia a lame woman in Seneca who still complained of the roughnesse of the way that made her limpe but faw not her owne lamenesse to bee the cause I will not stand to make application but unloose his knot by telling him Though a Church cannot see cause enough to commend such a person as we speake of to another Church for his Departure from them as being not cleare in it themselves yet hee being a godly man and of a good conversation in the generall they may and doe use to commend him for his godlinesse c. and in prudence conceale any supposed error or infirmity in his departure from them And upon such a testimony he is received and so neede not bee left as an Heathen Answer to CHAP. IX THe first thing meets us is a contradiction for here he saith in plaine termes ☞ That wee in New-England conceive men may be true Christians whether they be in Church estate or no. But chap. 7. Art 1. he affirmed absolutely that whosoever is not a setled member of a particular Church is accounted by us prophane and wicked Answer
it may be so And yet when he comes to speake of the other part of the contradiction i. e. that we have no communion in the Sacraments as if he studied to crosse himself he is as full in his deniall of it vid. cap. 9. Art 4 5. 2. Note how thicke his sayings and unsayings fall in Cap. 9. Art 1. ☜ He affirmes we hold Communion with other Churches and Church members and then presently in 4 5. Art of the very same chap. he expresly denies that we hold any such communion Then againe in the very next chap. the 10. Art 1. he saith as full as can be that we hold communion mutually with other Churches and by in chap. 12. 8. as fully and expressely denies againe that we hold any such thing The man being an able and judicious man in other things it is more remarkable he should be thus extreamely left to confound himselfe while he sought to confound our poore innocent Churches Let any carefully observe in all these things mentioned whether I have not dealt candidly with him or no. Art 2. He reports 1 That one Church may give power to another over any of her members for excommunication 2 That the Minister of one Church may convey power to the Ministers of another for the administration of the Sacraments Answer Neither of both which doe wee hold or practise The onely Author cited that we can come at is Cot. Cat. p. 7. whose words are these The Supper is dispenced by the Minister to the faithfull of the same Church or to such as are cōmended to them by a like body See if here be one tittle to bear him out Yet from these assertions which he saith we hold he flings rebukes upon us in his comments upon his owne Text. p. 37. whereas indeede wee might reprove his 1 misreporting 2 abusing his Author 3 reproving us without cause Without letters of recommendation from one Church and Minister to another it is unlawfull saith he Art 3. in any case to administer any Church ordinance to any Church member but their owne upon any pretence whatsoever 1. Here is neither truth nor proofe to be seene Answ 2. Letters of recommendation for publique participation are not sent from one Minister to another but from a Church to a Church 3. We hold it not unlawfull but doe often practise to receive other members to communion with us without letters especially if they bee knowne to any of our Church else such letters are desireable but hee saith We doe it not in any case upon any pretence whatsoever which is utterly false and without proofe He tells us That wee are so strait-laced that if a company of godly people should sit neere us where our power reacheth differing from us only in some points of Church-Government they should not onely not be owned as a sister Church but should be in danger of severe punishment by our Magistrate Ans 1 If you weigh well this accusation of us in all the particulars it is very harsh and sore and here is no proofe but H. W. who this should be I professe I cannot tell unlesse some malignant or back-friend amongst us there or whether such a thing were ever written in these words and sense I know not and if it be certainly so written and from a godly man yet it is but one single witnesse and I am forbidden and so are all others 1 Tim. 5.19 to receive an accusation against one Elder much more against all the Elders and Churches in new-New-England without two or three witnesses therefore we dare not beleeve it 2. To this very point in hand the Ans to 32. 9. p. 82 83. speakes fully and fairely which W. R. well knowing for it was written to himselfe amongst others deales not candidly to conceale that Answer of a printed booke from known Authors of credit in New-England because it is faire and loving for what other ground could hee have and bring in the Answer of H.W. a man we know not which is harsh and distastfull how can the concealing of that and relating of this seeme ingenuous or friendly to us or the truth Answer to CHAP. XI HE makes report of a groundlesse course as he calles it in the Church at Cambridge in new-New-England where saith he the people use to meet together privately each one to hold forth the work of grace in his or her soule from the first conversion to that day so that their Pastour might know their growth in grace And saith also that as some report the end of this meeting was to cast out by excommunication non-proficients Ans With what face can any godly man call such meetings of the Saints for such an holy end as to try their growth in grace a groundlesse meeting and so cast dirt upon it for he makes proofe of no other end besides that 2. Did these godly people ever cast any out of the Church there meerely for non-proficiency 3. He hath still forgotten that rule in 1 Tim. 3.19 that requires two or three witnesses to bee brought forth c. who yet proceeds upon I know not what relations to beleeve and report yea and print to the view of the world what in his opinion may detract from a Reverend Elder and a godly Church also No marvell he calls his Book a poore pamphlet truly it is so indeed if all things we have discovered in it be well weighed and it will appeare yet poorer before we have done to any candid reader It is our humble suit to heaven that God will discover to himselfe the weakenes and error of his dealings herein for the humbling of his spirit Answer to CHAP. XII A Short Answer might serve to this long Chapter for most of it as also of the two next is but a repetition of things spoken once or twice some of them thrice before and answered to already He said in the beginning of his preface he wanted not work◠but it seemes now towards the end of his booke he is more at leasure and so hee thinkes his reader is also else why he should so double treble the very same things totidem verbis I know not unlesse happily to make a deeper impression of his owne mistakes in his reader In Art 1. he tells us that after a Church is gathered it is often some yeares before she addresseth her selfe to the calling of Officers Whereas it is our usuall and constant course as hath beene said not to gather any Church untill they have one amongst themselves Ans fit for a Minister whom with all speede they call into Office and account themselves a lame and imperfect body till that be effected In his Marg. on that Art he saith hee is told to his comfort that many that were counted good Ministers in Old-England are there layed aside because they aime at men of speciall parts 1. We desire proofe for this aspersion unjustly cast on us Answ or else we shall still father it upon himselfe as
wall let him take heed least by a divine hand they rebound back For the three instances in the Magent I looke upon them as so many slaunders for which by rule hee is to give us an account for whereas by Pauls rule 1 Tim. 5.19 he is to produce two or three witnesses for one accusation yet he makes three severall accusations and that of three Churches without any one witnesse therefore till the true father appeares we must still lay the brat at his doore Answer to CHAP. XIII TO 1 Art Of private men prophecying c. It is answered before for this is his fifth time of repeating it even to loathing It is high time to have done with it now But the oftner he hath said his lesson the worse he hath learned it for there is scarce one right word in this Art either consonant to the truth or his Authors quoted for it as I shall make it appeare by comparing his article with the Authors words ☞ â—t Cat. p. 6. â—lles them â—ophets his 1 Author is Ans to 32. q. p. 77. 78. first W. R. saith this prophecying is done by meere private men His Authour tells us men haply indued with a gift of Prophecy 2 Hee saith they preach for confutation as if they must bee polemicall men able to wade through controversies But not one word of that in the Author 3 He saith they expound and apply the word with all authority but no word sounding that way in the Author these words with all authority being properly applyed by Paul to the offâ—câ—rs not to the Prophets Tit. 2.15 4 He saith this Prophecying is ordinary the Author saith they are not called to Prophecying ordinarily if by ordinary he meanes frequently and usually but sparingly and seldome frequently when the Officers arâ— sicke or absent c. His other Author cited is Mr. Cot. Cat. p. 6. and as in the other quotations he added diverse particulars of his own which the Author never mentioned So in this as corruptly he leaves out many materiall things which would have given light to the point in hand To instance such saith Mr Cot. as prophecy must 1 be allowed for Prophets 2 not prophecy till the Elders have done 3 not unlesse the time permit 4 and then also they must be first called thereunto by the Elders But W. R. hath not one word of all these that so much serve to cleare our practise Grant a Narratour but this liberty to adde alter and abstract as hee please and when he please and then what kind of Narration doe you thinke will he make had I time to anotomize all his Articles as I have done this and compare his proofes I should make him appeare more fully but I give onely a touch for brevity 2. He would heere cast a blur by saying there is a booke printed called a Sermon preached at Plymouth by a comber of wooll But I intreat the Reader to put him to his proofes for he produceth no other grounds but I am certified so he might scandalize all the Churches in the world 3. He comes in with some of them tells us that Prophecying is seldome used that so he might cast a blot on us as if we were at variance amongst our selves which course he often takes and that some of us are for frequent others for seldome Prophecying and yet do but marke the man it is not Authors and Authors he quotes to prove this as one would thinke hee should but only one and the same Author which he quoted before and which is more this Author not one haires breadth varying in his speech He saith in this Marg. 1 that some of our people have their farmes so farre from the Assembly that they cannot possibly come every Sabbath day hardly any to the word 2 that the people of late growe more violent in claiming their pretended liberty of prophecying 3 deserting and contemning their owne Ministers and Churches because they are not suffered to injoy it I should know new-New-England as well as I. P. or M. B. or any of his informers Answer but I solemnely here professe and with a safe conscience avouch it that I know no truth in any of all these particulars asserted but rather the contrary unlesse haply in those of the Island or such as adheare to theÌ„ who he knowes well â—re not of us whose waies and spirits are as grievous to our Churches as to himselfe why should he impute their practises to us more then the opinions of the Antinomians and Familists here in London to the godly Ministers and people of the city I will lay this as all other calumnious aspersions ungroundedly cast upon our Churches upon his back as the raiser of them untill he produceth two or three witnesses before us that will avouch them according to Pauls rule 1 Tim 5.19 To Art 2. After their Preaching saith he they take upon them to blesse the people III. as the Ministers doe I desire his grounds and proofes for here hee brings none Answer nor in any other place that I can finde but the contrary hee well knowes i. e. that Answer to 32. q. 38. whom he hath often quoted expresly saith that blessing the people in the name of the Lord is an act proper to our Officers which no member may presume to doe To Art 3. We have saith he a course before our dismission i. e. of the Assembly to give leave to any publikely to propound their doubts make their objections and to argue pro and con and in his Marg. makes a grievous and bitter outcry against us for so doing and adds also that it is an abrupt course at first dash openly to implead the Minister of error before all the people and that it is scandalous and reproachfull it argues not so much civility piety charity nor prudence c. Answer â—de 9. 1. If a better then himself durst not reproach one worse then our selves though he had ground enough to have done it I hope then W. R. dare not without any ground at alâ— bring these sore accusations against so many Churches But what his proofes are you shall see Mr. Cot. Cat. p. 6. whose words are these It may bee lawfull for any except women to aske questions at the month of the Prophets 1 Mr. Cot. speakes onely of asking questions of the Prophets i. e. such members as prophecy he adds of the Ministers also 2. Mr. Cot. seemes to speake of the matter then delivered only for he mentions no other He adds matters formerly delivered also 3 Mr. Cot. excepts women He saith leave is given to any without exception 4 Mr. Cot. speakes soberly it may be lawfull hee speakes peremptorily wee have a course c. 5 Mr. Cot. allowes only to aske questions but he adds a bedroule of his owne to make us odious they may saith he obiect argue pro and con about any matter c. yea they doe abruptly at the first dash openly implead the Minister
of error delivered before all the people So as it is a scandall to the people a reproach to the Minister c. all this is his own addition Then for the other cited Author Answer to 32 q. 78 he deales more grosely with him then the former who is in a manner point-blanck against him yet hee boldly gives him up for an Author his words are these we never knew any Minister that did call upon the people thus to doe i. e. to propound questions and such calling upon them is farre from us some thinke the people have a liberty to aske a question upon very urgent and weighty cause none iudge the ordinary practise of it necessary but if not meekely and wisely carried inconvenient if not utterly unlawfull and therefore such asking of questions is seldome used in any in most Churches neere True it is in the times of the opinions some were bold in this kinde but these men are long since gone the Synod and Sermons have reproved this disorder so that a man may now live from one end of the yeere to another in these congregations and not heare any man opening his mouth in such kind of questions These the Authors words ☞ Now good reader do us the favour to give righteous judgement whether these words cited by him make for him or against him where is 1 giving leave 2 a course of giving leave 3 to any 4 to obiect and urge pro and con and 6 which is horribly grosse to implead the Minister of error at the first dash and that openly before all the people c. Whereas his own cited Authors tells him the contrary 1 That it is done not often but seldome 2 Not many questions but a question 3 Not upon sleight but weighty and very urgent grounds 4 Not rashly and boldly but wisely and meekely 5 And this not perâ—mptorily concluded of by all but some only thinke they have a liberty 6 And not that it is now so much done but was for a time by the bold opinionist who are now chased away long agoe See what a vast gulfe betwixt the Author and W. R. Now for him to reade over distinctly all these expressions in this booke for that answer was written to himselfe from godly men in New-England yet to produce it as a proofe for his Art and the Marg. which in common sence is contrary to it I stand amazed at it and wonder with what face he could print it or having done it how he can let his book be kept from the fire thus long Yet further note our Narratour undertakes to relate only such Church-courses as are generally by the Churche in new-New-England practised as pag. 1. title How then can he with honesty bring in this asking of questions amongst such kind of generall Church courses of ours whereas his Author plainely saith this asking of questions is not Generally practised nor by all the Churches but sildome in any Church and in most Churches never at all and that one may live as he saith from one end of the yeere to another in our congregations and not here any man open his mouth in such kind of questions What will not W. R. boldly attempt against his brethren of the independent way and their Churches that cites these very words I have related to prove such Church courses in new-New-England as are generally practised amongst us Answer to CHAP. XIIII TO Marg. on the Title Some saith he grow shie of the word independent some utterly renounce it yet most owne it Answer If the word bee rightly taken as in Answer to 32. q. 46. it 's expounded for one Church that is not under the power of another or in subjection to a Presbyterie but as having received power from Christ to governe her selfe according to his lawes Then all accord to it But if the word Independent bee abusively taken as it is often with the vulgar for such a Society as are neither subject to Magistracy nor regard the counsel of other Churches but are a conceipted and selfe-sufficient people that stand onely on their owne leggs Then wee have cause to be shie of a word that may render us odious without cause To Marg. of 1 Art That wee have store of imperative Churches who may command yea compell both members and Ministers to act Ans Another slaunder without ground or proofe or truth which I leave here upon record God our consciences and our Brethren bearing us witnesse how tender our Churches are but to perswade men to act without light much more to command or compell both which very words though the thing required were lawfull are odious in the Churches of Christ most fitly becomming the Synagogues of Antichrist Hath hee a lycense to speake any thing To Art 2. We hold our Church power absolute and imperiall Answ All we use to speake of our Church-power is that it is ministeriall which is farre from absolute and imperiall words fitter for Emperours of this world then the Churches of the Saints I charge it on his conscience as in the sight of God either to make this appeare or else vindicate us as becomes an honest Christian to doe And for his two printed Authors cited for we cannot come at his private letters if there be any one word or shew of ground from them to maintaine his speech Let me beare the shame of it for I here avouch the contrary under my hand To Art 3. and Marg. That we deny all representation of Churches absent and all authoritative deputation of Messengers to act for them â—nsw 1. The Reader may well see it is his own saying not ours for he brings no proofe but from Barrow and Johnson who cannot well give in their testimony for our Church waies in new-New-England because they never came there yea were in their graves both or one long before ever wee had a beeing in New-England 2. There is no truth in it for we hold a Church may delegate some men and send them forth in their names and stead with authority to act for them in this or that particular businesse of trust as Act. 15.2 And yet he hath boldly now twise or thrise affirmed the same thing of us and brings no proofe at all for it and it is answered before cap. 2. Art 3. Marg. Yet some tells us saith he that Mr. P. and Mr. W. were sent hither by the Churches to negotiate for them c. Answ 1. Some tell us Sir you are a man of judgement and gravity able to instruct others You know you may not blemish your brethren and slâ—nder Churches upon such poore and weake grounds as it is reported I am informed some tell us And yet how oft in your booke have you used this course of dealing towards your bretbren and their Churches Some tell us indeede is warrant enough for people that have no other businesse to make three farthing bookes of and thereby fill the world with tales but oh farre be
cause here you see is 1 faction 2 partiality 3 both those appearing 4 obstinacy 5 continuing in obstinacy after meanes used according to rule all these before the censure of admonition passed but you in your relation leave out all these words of your Authors and put in such of your owne as will not so much enforce a censure as these and then taxe us at your pleasure and make bitter invectives against us in your Margent If I should have retorted and said This dealing of yours is harsh uncharitable foolish destructive c. it would have troubled you yet you are but a single person those whom you reproach are whole Churches many Churches of Saints but wee have learned what the Apostle saith 1 Pet. 2.23 and to forbeare This Article being thus laid prostrate there is nothing at all in his Marginal extraction worth answer He blames us Art 12. That we deny unto the Church all power to make any particular rules or lawes in things indifferent conducing to the better Governement of her selfe and more orderly and edifying performance of Gods worship accordâ—ng to the generall rules of Scripture c. 1. He hath falsified his printed Authors alledged for this Art Ans Answ to 32. q. 66. Col. Cap. 7. where is not a syllable of things indifferent for whereas they indeede denie Churches power to make lawes about Church Governement c. their words meaning are expressed it is only in such matters where the Scripture hath made lawes already and therefore they say The Churches have no power to make lawes but to observe those lawes which Christ hath given and commanded and doe alleadge Mat. 28.20 Deut. 33.3 Iohn 20.27 None I hope can thinke this a thing indifferent for us to add lawes to Christ his owne lawes and this is all they say 2. If you meane by making of lawes inferring of plaine and necessary conclusions from their proper grounds in Scripture wee grant a power in a Church so to doe yet so as they shall not be binding unlesse the evidence of the consequence be made appeare as Rom. 14.5.22.23 But iâ— by making of lawes you meane a drawing of conclusions from râ—mote Principles such as the Bishops were wont to doe All things must bee decently done and in order therefore a Surplice a Crosse in Baptisme a bowing at the Altar c. we deny it as an inlet of all humane inventions Many of the Marginalls of this 6 Chap. are already answered some few remaine as Who would not long to be churched seeing they are indued with such a vast power this is a sweet morsell no marvell peoples teeth so water after it c. p. 23. I can tell you who longs not for Churching it is W. R. himselfe who with heart â—sw hand and pen thus opposeth it but why doe not his teeth also water after it It is I suppose because the people have a voyce in Church matters and Ministers cannot carrie all 2 Why doe you thinke W. R. that peoples teeth should so much water after this way seeing they are under many watchfull eyes a strict Covenant disgraces in the world sharpe censures and overharsh too if all you say be true therefore why should they so much desire these waies thinke you they being so crosse to corruption that would have elbowroom unlesse they did see and feele our beauty and warmth of Christ in them This is the true and reall cause The word saith h and the Sacraments should be both setled on the Ministry Goe preach and baptize c. Why doe wee separate them pag. 23. To Preâ—ch by Office which is the preaching that Christ there gives in commission to his Disciples being called to be Apostles is proper only to Ministers â—swer who are to waite upon teaching Rom. 12.7 and this preaching and the administration of the Sacraments are ever joyned together in the same person But there is a preaching in a large sense i. e sometimes to apply a word of instruction exhortation consolation if necessity shall require according to their talent being invited thereunto and this may be common to other godly and able Christians though not called into Office as Art 8. 1. 4. where the whole Church except the Apostles were scattered by persecution and they that were so scattered without distinction of Ministers or people went to and fro preaching therefore others besides Ministers in some case may preach the word if you take preach in a larger sense 3. For the two instances hee brings p. 24. of Peoples unabilitie of iudging electing voting c. from Holland and Boston c. 1. The best people on earth may have their houre of temptation and personall failings doe not hinder the goodnesse or truth of the rule â—nsw 2. What Church in the world hath not possibly first or last given or else may give strange instances of humane frailty but still you count their way good 3. Even those Churches you mention were able at other times both before and since to act as becomes prudent and godly men though possibly at that time they might shew themselves to be but men 4. These persons recovered out of their error and lay not in it you should have mentioned this as well as that If the Officers through scruple of conscience perhaps refuse to act according to their i. e. the peoples minde they will they hold they may call fourth any other member to do and enable him with power to doe all that their Officers should have done except Sacraments A most unjust and slanderous report and without any word of proofe Answ so now we must father it upon him and doe here require him to prove it for almost every word is an aggravation but I study brevity and mentioned this before Art 9. They complaine in print that their Ministers are slighted amongst them yea trampled upon by some And mentions for this Cot. on 2 vial p. 24. of whose words judge and you shall not finde one word to warrant him All his invectives against us on the 11. Article Marg. for extorting a consent from such as dissent from us is exceeding slaunderous and not a word true nor any tittle of proofe for none are ever admonished for dissenting but for faction and obstinacy as his Authors speake as was said before Let me heare tell the Reader there are sundry unsound and uncouth passages in this chap. as indeede through the whole booke which for brevity I am forced to passe by and indeede not worth my time I intreate thee to take all his sayings with a graine of salt knowing from what spirit they proceede Answer to CHAP. VII IN this 1. Art there are three things that will be found too light 1. He affirmes we say all men are bound to be setled members of a particular Church Yet in his Margent he affirmes Answ we allow some to bee admitted transient members for a time only Now to be setled and yet transient are