you or of your or our Reformation but of the coming of Christ and the vocation of the Gentiles for howsoever the Fathers in the old Testament received the Promises yet received they not the accomplishment or performance of them viz. Christ manifested in the flesh who is that better thing reserved unto us whereof the Apostle speaketh there otherwise we should have perished § 23 24 25 26 27. Containeth an Enumeration of our Brethrens grievances whereof they have mentioned many heretofore 1. The mistaking and misapprehension of their Opinions wherein they might seem to differ We have answered already 1. It is not a mistake nor misapprehension to take and apprehend an opinion as it is propounded by the Partie as we have done 2. We answer That if we mistake or misapprehend any opinion it is not that of all Independents 3. It is a great mistake in you to imagine that ye be all of one opinion For ye five who are the Authors of this Book cannot agree among your selves how muchlesse with others 4. And we are assured that ye cannot but mistake one another 5. Here also must be noted your Parenthesis wherein we might seem to differ Then your differences from us were not reall but apparent If so wherefore then will ye not really agree and joyn your selves in Union and Communion with us And truely so it is either they are not reall or they are really ridiculous Pag. 23. Your second grievance is that ye are grievously calumniated with reproaches of Schisme Schisme is a Pertinacious Separation from the true Church after sufficient conviction And as Heresie as Heresie is repugnant to Faith so is Schisme to Charitie the one quitteth the unitie of the Faith the other the union in Charitie And as Heresie is evermore accompanied with pertinacy after sufficient conviction So is Schisme also If therefore the Synod or any other Assembly or any of your Brethren should convict you sufficiently and afterwards ye should separate your selves or desire a separation from us I think that no man could deny you to be Schismaticks neither beleeve I in such a case that ye would or could honestly deny i◠your selves But so long as the Synod or some others does it not I dare say nothing As for my self I beleeve truly that ye be very Learned Pious and honest Men and howsoever ye may fail by infirmitie yet beleeve I not that ye erre out of malice and consequently that ye are no Schismaticks hitherto And I hope and am consident that God will not permit that so good and godly men fall away from his Church And this I say by morall probabilitie because of the good opinion I have conceived of you by good mens relations and some observation of your carriages in the small conversation I have had with some of you If therefore any men out of too much zeal or others out of malice have uttered any such aspersion it is in your power by entertaining of a Fraternall union with us to give them the ly as I hope in Gods mercy ye will do § 24. Pag. 24 25. But ye prove That ye are not or cannot be Schismaticks by three Reasons The first is If ye be Schismaticks or culpable of Schisme Either it must relate say you to a differing from the former Ecclesiasticall Government of this Church established and then who is not involved in it as well as we Or to that Constitution and Government that is yet to come and untill that be agreed on established and declared and actually exist there can be no guilt or imputation of Schisme from it But none of these are true as ye have confirmed it Ergo. Answ Howsoever I hold you not yet for Schismaticks yet can I not think that ye prove it well For that dis-junctive proposition may be denyed as not containing a full enumeration of all the Causes or Reasons of Schisme for a Church may be Schismaticall not onely for her Separation from this or that Church but much more for her Separation from all Churches as your Accusers may say of you viz. That ye have quitted the Communion of all other Churches as well Protestants as Papists and that in case ye could not or would not joyn in union with Churches ruled by Episcopall Government ye might have joyned your selves with other Reformed Churches with which the Church of England entertained Union and Communion so that the greater your Separation was the greater was your Schisme Yet can it not be said that it was a Schisme formally but materially for it had not the essentiall forme or that which we conceive as the essentiall forme of a Schisme viz. Conviction and Pertinacy without the which Schisme no more can be made up then Heresie For it is Forma quae dat esse rei the Forme that giveth being to a thing Onely it had the matter or materiall cause of a Schisme viz. The Separation from all Churches which cannot make up a Schisme formally no more then a mans body alone which is his matteriall cause can formally make up a Man 2. Men may yet be called Schismaticks Materialiter Dispositivè matterially and dispositively or as having the disposition to Schisme when they cannot actually resist an actuall Government but are resolved without any sufficient cause to resist or controle that Government that they judge will be established by them who according to Gods ordinary Providence have power to do it And so your Partie may yet say that ye be culpable and guiltie of Schisme materially and by way of disposition if they see you aym at any Toleration which is the next way to Separation So they may Answer unto the confirmations of both the parts of your dis-junctive Proposition in denying both your Assumptions for many there be who separated not themselves from all Protestant Churches and that are not minded to oppose the forme of Government that is to be established much lesse to be suiters for Toleration Your second Reason to free your selves from the calumny of Schisme is this in substance § 24. Pag. 24. If ye had been guided by the spirit of Schisme ye had made up a Partie when ye had the occasion But so did ye not when ye had the occasion Ergo. Ye prove the connexion of your first Proposition Because such are practises of those that are led by the spirit of Schisme Ye prove the Assumption 1. Because that howsoever ye had great provocations viz. 1. Misunderstandings of your opinions 2. Incitements to this State not to allow you the peaceable practises of your consciences which the Reformed Churches abroad allowed you 3. Calumnies in Print 4. Heightned with this prejudice that ye were ashamed of your opinions or able to say little for them 5. Books printed against your opinions yet ye did it not 2. Because that having the occasion of manifold advantages to make and increase a Partie ye have not in the least sort attempted it Ye prove that ye had manifold advantages
Wherefore will ye not joyn with us and communicate as Brethren with us But ye adde a little after the middle part of this Section That ye both did and would hold a Communion with all those Churches as with the Churches of Christ But what communion is this ye hold with these rather then with Papists Brownists Anabaptists in England and the Lutherans If ye say in Doctrine that Union is not externall since ye testifie it not by your externall Communion in the Sacraments with us for ye will not admit all those to your Communion that we admit to ours 2. Neither will those of New-England whom ye cry up and extoll so highly admit those of our Church to their Communion or to be Members of their Churches unlesse of late they have changed their opinion and ye and they temporize in conforming your opinions to the times and commensurate them to Politicall ayms for Toleration 3. Neither know we whether they will communicate with us at least their Writings and Letters from new-New-England which heretofore we have seen testifie no such thing so that in this ye dissent from them unlesse they within this yeer dissent from themselves 4. By the same reason ye may communicate with Schismaticks and men that are excommunicated amongst your selves for their ill life viz. drunkards blasphemous persons c. 5. By the same reason ye communicate with some Papists in profession that beleeve all that we beleeve in Doctrine 6. And with them all and all Hereticks in part because they agree in part in the Doctrine with us If it be replied That they with whom they communicate must also be of good life I duply then it is not a meer Communion in Doctrine but in some other thing beside viz. In good life And then 2. If they have both sound Doctrine and be of a good life or have Faith which causes good Doctrine and Charitie the cause of a good life Wherefore desire ye a Toleration to make a Sect apart or what desire ye more to make up one Church with them But howsoever ye pretend this reall Profession of Communion with us yet ye overthrow it by your restriction afterwards viz. To such as ye know to be Godly that came to visit you in your exile But ye will not admit all the Members of our Churches but such as ye onely judge not we to be Members of our Church Ye say in the same Section That ye Baptize your Children in our Parishionell Congregations Wherefore then will ye not as well communicate at the Lords Table with us all And if so Wherefore will ye not likewise admit us all to your Communion In the 8. § And as we alwayes c. In this Paragraph or Section ye shew the judgement of forraign Churches concerning you how ye both mutually gave and received the right â—â—â—ds of fellowship How they gave you Churches to Preach in some Priviledges a maintenance annually for your Ministers c. So here in England hitherto ye have had libertie to Preach in our Churches and may have if ye will and some of you have some Benefices But if ye go on ayming at a Toleration and consequentlie at some Separation as we have shewed I doubt if ye shall or should have any annuall allowance at all or Churches to Preach in as before you had Moreover we know not upon what grounds ye were tolerated in the Netherlands whether it was not in consideration of your precedent afflictions hoping that ye might submit your selves to Presbyteriall Government in your own Countrey if it were well establisht or in favour of some Merchants by publike or private authoritie Ecclesiasticall or Civill or other wayes Onely we say That many Sects are tolerated there Neither howbeit ye were tolerated in the Netherlands Polonia or Germany where many Religions are tolerated and permitted out of Civill respects Is it equitable ye should be tolerated here where there is one onely Religion professed and one Goverment as we shall see hereafter In the 9.10.11.12.13.14 ye give account of your Practices in publike Worship Church Officers matter of Government and Censures and your directive principles in all this Hence in the 15.16.17.18.19.20.21 ye infer your Conclusion of Independencie of every particular Congregation As for the parts of your publike worship we consent with you In your Church Officers ye acknowledge with us four viz. Pastours Teachers Ruling Elders and Deacons But ye lash us a little with your Parenthesis about our Ruling Elders With us not Lay but Ecclesiastique persons separated to that service Here ye seem to accuse the Reformed Churches in France the Netherlands Scotland c. as if they all esteemed them Lay and not Ecclesiasticall Persons If this be your minde it is a great mistake in you and we can produce their writings to the contrarie if not we know not to what end ye inserted this particular Parenthesis As ye therefore inserted yours so do we ours but not Preachers or Teachers of the Word And therefore we desire to know of you if Ruling Elders have power to teach as it is maintained by other Independents and if they Preach or Teach how they can be distinguished from Preachers and Teachers For all Charges receive their unitie and distinction from their Acts and Ends Wherefore if the Ruling Elder Preach or Teach which is the Act and End of the Preacher and Teacher he must have the same Office with Preachers and Teachers 2. The Apostle also distinguishes them 1 Cor. 12. Wherefore then confound ye them Ye adde in this 9. Section concerning Excommunication upon obstinacy and impenitency this Parenthesis as worthy of some particular observation which we blesse God we never used as if your Churches were so pure that not one man should deserve it We cannot say so much of our Churches Neither can your Brethren of new-New-England say so much of theirs We know that some have been Independenters as we our selves have heard from their own mouthes that now are become Anabaptists And whether such men merited it or not judge ye If they merited it ye have been very partiall and unjust in not using of it So that proceeds not from want of demerits in the persons to be punished but of justice in the Rulers to execute it Neither do we deny but a number of very holy persons may be gathered together who may so carrie themselves for some time as not to commit any great offence with pertinacie to deserve Excommunication if the choice be good But to say that it may last long so in Populous Congregations and in a great number of Churches ye may tell us this news when your Churches are multiplied and become as Populous and have endured as long as ours We could tell wonders also of our Churches in some parts in the beginning of the Reformation But the question is not who liveth holiest but whose Discipline is most conform unto Gods Word Your Directive Principles were three 1. Gods Word and
to the Lords Table I answer That the true Reformed Churches in Scotland France the Netherlands c. receive no man to the Lords Table whom they judge to be prophane or scandalous none but such as give an accompt of their Faith and testifie it by externall Confession and Profession in Doctrine and Sanctification If any Preacher or the Consistory of Ruling Elders do other wayes it is not by rule or their ordinary practise but through their negligence which when it is known is condemned by all We wish that none come to the Communion of Christs Body amongst us but such as have and feel some measure of Christ in themselves But who hath this measure of Christ It is hard for any mortall man to know it but he onely that hath it It is likewise hard to know what measure of Grace is requisite to make up a member of Christ or of his Church Some of the Casuists esteem that it sufficeth a Roman Catholike explicite as they call it expresly cleerly and plainlie to beleeve this onely Article I beleeve what the Church beleeveth Others esteem it not enough and therefore adde this Article I beleeve also That the Church cannot erre Others think this yet not enough for they wish Christians to beleeve this one more viz. I beleeve there is a God Some adde one more viz. That they must beleeve Gods Providence c. We beleeve that men are bound to beleeve all Divine Truths revealed in Scripture as necessary to Salvation and to beleeve them by a justifying Faith But what be these that be absolutely necessary to Salvation What are these Fundamentalia Essentialia and Superstructories How may they be distinguished one from another What is maximum quod sic and minimum quod non Or minimum quod sic maximum quod non Or your least of Christ whereupon a man may be admitted to be a Member of Christ we cannot define it We leave the Decision to more subtle Spirits and to our Brethren who use those termes and who upon this minimum quod sic or least bit of Christ do found the Reception of Christs Members into the Church We esteem their Disputes too subtle in the practise of Christianitie in judging others And wish with the Apostle rather every man to examine and try himself For this directive Principle we esteem surer then that of our Brethren We esteem that such a Confession of Faith and desire of Communion as ordinarily is professed by them who are admitted in Protestant Churches may suffice Here in the second Instance of set Forme of Prayers our Brethren note with a Parenthesis that they condemn not others who approve set Formes of Prayers prescribed and the Liturgis But whether these of new-New-England and others of their Profession will not condemn them in this we know not I wish that this were not added rather in a compliance with the present time then otherwise Item They tell us That the framing of Prayers and Sermons out of their own Gifts are the Fruits of Christs Ascension But why not also of his death and Resurrection Since he did merit this by his death In their third Instance about Government and Ecclesiasticall Discipline we care not what they say The practise of the Orthodox Churches is this They have divers Ecclesiasticall Senats or Courts wherein some are coordinate and others subordinated one to another The loweest is their Consistory or Session of the Pastours and the Ruling Elders in one Parish Church Then they have their Classes which some call Colloques others Presbyteries made of all the Preachers of all the Parish Churches belonging to such Colloques every one of them accompanied with one Elder of his Church 3. Their Provinciall Synods made up of all the Ministers of the Province accompanied every one of them with one or two ruling Elders 4. The Nationall Synod compounded of a certain number of Ministers and Ruling Elders according to the exigence of time place and other occasions and circumstances Delegate from all the Provinces or Provinciall Synods In the Consistory or Senate of the Parish Church they judge onely of things that be proper unto it and of lesse importance that have no great difficultie In the Colloque of that which is common to all the Churches of that Colloque and of businesse of greater importance that cannot be judged or well determined in a Parish Church In a Provinciall Synod of that which is common to all the Churches of the Province other things of great importance and all cases that cannot so soundly or so surely be determined in the former Assemblies In a Nationall of that which is common to all the Churches of the whole Kingdom and others that cannot be determined in the precedent Assemblies as of matters of Appeal c. Item From the first if any of the Parties finde themselves grieved by its judgement they may appeal to the second as from the second to the third and from the third to the fourth And all these Judgements and Proceedings are without money charges pecuniarie mulcts or fines And as their ayms are spirituall so be their punishments that they inflict upon their Delinquents Their punishments are censures Suspension from the Lords Table and their greater Excommunication which ordinarily are never inflicted upon whole Churches as our Brethren unjustly would challenge us but on particular Persons If they had read the Discipline of the Scots French Netherlands and other Reformed Churches they needed not here have troubled themselves and us with so many mistakes Or if they have read them they deal not fairly with us In some Churches particular or Parochiall Senates or Consistories have power to suspend from their Communion those that be Members thereof yea also to Excommunicate them from the which sentence neverthelesse they may appeal unto the Superiour Senate or Judicatorie and that for some particular reasons But this question God willing we shall hereafter more fully discusse Onely I note in passing that our Brethren First are here too sparing of Titles to some and too liberall to others They name Cartwright onely Cartwright but Baynes holy Baynes in the same line as if they would Canonize the one making him Saint Baynes which we condemn in the Pope and esteem the other prophane or of the vulgar and dregs of Divines which as it is said with reverence and respect of the one so it cannot be said without disparagement of the other As for the distinction of Ecclesiae in Primas Ortas it requireth a particular Question apart They say 1. Every Church hath a full and entire power compleat within it self till it should be challenged to erre grosly Pag. 14. § 15. Either by a compleat Power ye understand a Power absosolutely compleat or in its own kinde or sort If ye understand the first it must be Independent for if it depend upon a Superiour to rectifie it whereunto it must give an account of its judgement and submit it self in
further it and having no impediments that could hinder it Your helps were first Gods Word Secondly The Discipline of the Reformed Churches Thirdly That of the Non-Conformists Fourthly That of new-New-England Fifthly The example and president of the Shipwrack of the Brownists Sixthly The reason ye had to be true to your consciences The impediments or hinderances ye could have were first worldly temptations secondly aymes thirdly education fourthly engagement to other Churches from which all ye were free But this Enumeration is imperfect for the grace of God which is the principall help without which we can do nothing is here omitted But let us examine them all according to the order that ye have set them down We lookt upon the Word of Christ as impartially and unprejudicedly as men made of flesh and blood are like to do in any juncture of time that may fall out This is much As for us Brethren being but men made of flesh and blood we know that we know but in part that we do but in part the good we have power to do for we have power to do more good then we do that we may omit much evill that we do that of both we know very little in respect of that we know not For the heart of man is deceitfull and who can know it And as for others we know much lesse then of our selves not knowing their hearts temptations ayms intentions or their sins repentance backslidings their falls or uprising but least of all of men possible in junctures of time to come that God can create for what know ye or we Brethren what may be And therefore we dare not be so bold as to compare our selves with others in time present much lesse with those that be possible in junctures of time to come in esteeming our selves as good or better then they may be And therefore I esteem that your comparison proceedeth rather of flesh and blood then of the spirit of God We wish indeed we were the best of all men but we esteem not our selves the best Oh that we might be but in the number of good men We wish we could say as much as ye but again we dare not being conscious of our own infirmitie that we are but flesh and blood But ye seem to prove it by removing of hinderances as first Of Temptations of the place ye went unto your condition and company which left you as freely to be guided by Gods Word as the Needle toucht with the Loadstone is in the compasse But this is an imperfect Enumeration of Temptations It containeth onely some externall and yet not all as those that proceed from the Divell and omit internall Temptations whereof ye purge not your selves sufficiently But left that company you in such a condition Medied it self no more in a businesse of so great consequence in establishing a new Government to which it was to submit it self Did it so let it self be led by the nose Had it no more interest in the businesse It is too much Onely I adde it is one of the greatest Temptations that a man can fall into to esteem himself without Temptations and that such a man in such a case should not need to say Lead us not into Temptation And was this no Temptation that ye went out of your Countrey with some miscontentment in it that ye found your selves so consociated that ye might frame your Government to your present estate and condition as was requisite in such a company that shuning too much one extremitie because of your sufferings ye should presently run into the other Neither was this extravagant power a small temptation Nunquam satis fida potentia ubi uimia est We had say ye of all men the greatest reason to be true to our own consciences in what we should embrace This Brethren cannot be said without a high esteem of your selves and great undervaluing of others Have not other men as good reason as ye to be true unto their consciences since they are all bound under the pain of eternall condemnation to that duty What greater reason then this can ye have Have not these whom ye call Presbyterians who were condemned to death for that Discipline ready to be executed who afterward were exiled into forraign Countreys wherein they ended their lives who were men of no lesse learning abilities and holinesse of life then any of your profession had they not I say as great reason to be true to their consciences as ye can have Afterward in this Paragraph ye remove all ayms and ends that might make you byas We had say ye no new Common-Wealths to rear c. As much may all Schismaticks say Neither can every man have new Common-wealths to rear neither can these of New-England say so And as for you five your number was too small and howsoever ye had not Kingdoms in your eye yet had every one of you one in his heart to subdue Tunc omnia jura renebis cum poteris Rex esse tui Hoc regnum sibi quisque dat This is a Kingdom which every man by Gods grace may take and give to himself without any materiall Arms or Armies And howbeit ye have no State ends neverthelesse as ye have very many good men so have ye very many good States-men among you yea more then those that maintain Presbyterian Discipline in regard of your number But what Republikes had the Protestants in France or Scotland to rear or worldly Kingdoms to subdue more then ye Your mould of Church Government will be coexistent say ye with the peace of any form of civill Government on earth that may be true of yours but not of ours for it cannot comply with that of the Turks and we confesse ingenuously that for any thing we know yours will comply a great deal more with State and State ayms then ever S. Peter S. Paul or we could do howsoever ours submitteth it self willingly to all sort of just Government that is of God Neither requireth the Parliament any thing more of the Church of GOD. Howbeit ye had No preferment or worldly respects to shape your opinions for yet praised be God your Ministers have no want but as great abundance of worldly means as any of your Brethren that stand for Presbyteriall Government But what preferment or worldly respects could Calvin or Beza have had who for the puritie of Doctrine and of Discipline introduced this Presbyteriall Government whereby both themselves and all they that should thereafter professe the Gospel were deprived of all hopes of future preferment and worldly respects What preferment or worldly respects could they have that refused them when they were offered unto them and prefer'd death and perpetuall exile before good fat Bishopricks We know King James his round answer when some asked him wherefore he preferred not good men to Bishopricks in Scotland The Divell an honest man sayes he will accept them And what greater preferment have they who at this present
the Church of God to the true Doctrine and Discipline that which should be imputed to himself Or 2. Because that the Governours or Rulers of the Church put not the Discipline duly in execution Or 3. Because they that should be governed will not obey the trueth 3. Put the case the Antecedent were true and there were no such captious argumentation Yet from hence should it not follow that Independent but that Episcopall Government should be better then the Presbyterian because the power of godlinesse acknowledged by strangers to be greater here then with them was not in Holland or in New-England under Independency but in old England not under Independent which hath never here been received but dependent viz. Episcopall Government that could not endure Indepency but persecuted it So Brethren here according to your fashion you prove that which ye intend least to prove wherein ordinarily ye are very unfortunate And if this ye prove it is another Sophistication commonly called fallacia ignorationis elenchi and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when ye prove one question or conclusion for another Ye had said ye the light of old Non-conformists and their draughts of Discipline But ye condemned all as Soveraign Judges And that much more commended to us because say ye they were our own Here ye manifest a temptation which ye concealed before Ye had the fatall miscarriages and shipwrack of those of the Separation whom ye say we call Brownists But so call not ye them because ye symbolize more with them and had rather call us Calvinians with the Papist then them Brownists with us as they merit because of the Author of their Sect. Afterwards in the last part of this Paragraph ye come to the examples of New-England improved as ye say to a better Edition and greater refinement whom ye extoll very highly in comparing them with our father Abraham and yet ye stood say ye as unengaged Spectators So then your Religion in this point was in abstractione praecisionis abstracted and separated from all Religion without all Religion and to live as Spectators This your Religion in this point was very speculative and if it were in any other matter then that of Religion we might justly say Spectatum admissi risum teneatis amici We resolved not say ye to take up our Religion by or from any part Neither could ye being so abstract from all parties for ye dissented from all the World ye held all the World for parties and made your selves Judges of all the World till ye had made choice of your new Religion If this Method in making choice of Religion be good and honest then all those that are bred in your Religion should do so which as I beleeve ye will no wayes grant Upon this Section wherein ye so much extoll your New-England-men I must say something of those that stood for Presbyterian Government And not to insist upon this how some of them as the Histories relate had the gift of Prophesie What miracles or at least marvellous things were done by or about them in the time of their Imprisonment and afterwards in their Exile for that Cause How God extraordinarily poured forth his Judgements upon those that were instruments of their vexation and afterward extraordinarily delivered them upon their repentance How some of them in strange Countries extraordinarily got the Language of the Countrey in three moneths so as to be able to Preach How the people flockt about them in their houses How powerfully they preached twice a day which was thought insupportable to humane nature in respect of the violence of their action and that not for one day but all the dayes of their lives to the admiration of many thousands How the Papists themselves howsoever ordinarily in their speeches they condemned all Huguenots to hell yet excepted them because of the holinesse of their lives How they were never out of Prayers Meditation or Preaching as sundry eye witnesses here can testifie How all the Priests and Doctors even the learnedst of them that were sent to the place where they were to hinder the conversion of the Papists were converted themselves Onely I will say one word of some who not above four or five years ago undertook a Voyage for a new Plantation in America in as great a Wildernesse as any of your New-England-men and that with far lesse worldly means onely for Gods Service These men I say being about the number of one hundred and twenty in one Bottom and some thousands of miles on their way it pleased God that a Tempest so violent seized them as in it they lost their Rudder spent all their Masts save one and sprung three Leaks whereby the water came in in such aboundance that notwithstanding their extraordinary diligence at the Pumps as also their indefatigable pains in lading it out by Buckets hardly could they save the Ship from sinking under them And yet in this case ever hoping against hope the Tempest continuing it pleased him who commands the Windes and Tempests by the same Tempest to bring them back to the very Port they set out of and after wards made them Judges of those that had unjustly judged them and instruments with the rest of the Kingdom for the establishing of the Presbyteriall Government in greater purity there from whence it was almost cast out What these mens lives were the world can with no lesse admiration wonder at then at their wondrous deliverance And yet for all this will I not compare these men with any men in the World in any juncture of time that may fall out As I honour their gifts so do I other mens also but which of them all be the best men or most impartiall Judges he knoweth best who knows the hearts of all men Sect. 7. In this Section ye give out your judgement of other Churches and in the next viz. 8o. other Churches judgement of you I beleeve ye understand those of the Netherlands Ye acknowledge the Churches under Episcopall Government in England and under Presbyteriall in France Holland and Scotland for true Churches and their Ministery for a true Ministery But here I desire with many others to know what ye understand by true Churches and a true Ministery Whether a Metaphysicall Logicall or a Morall veritie If ye understand that they be true Churches Veritate Metaphysica Entis Transcendentali such as Dú Plessis and many of our Divines grant unto the Romish Church viz. That she is a true Church as a Pocky whore is a true Woman howsoever her flesh be so consumed with corruption that she cannot live but must die of it and that none can touch her without danger of being infected with her sicknesse for she is an Harlot and a Whore howsoever clothed with Scarlet We thank you for your favour Ye hold us in the same Categorie with Rome If ye hold us a true Church veritate logica and morally for a pure Church wherefore desire ye a Toleration
the Law of Nature fully known 2. Not to make your present judgement and practise a binding Law unto your selves for the future 3. In matters of greatest moment and controversie ye still thosed to practise safely and so as ye had reason to judge that all sorts or most of all the Churches did acknowledge warrantable although they make additaments thereunto We agree with you in these principles in generall § 11. p. 9. and neverthelesse we must touch a word in passing of that which we observe in every one of them and in every Paragraph And first in the 11. § about the midst thereof where ye say That in Gods Word ye found Principles enough not onely fundamentall and essentiall to the being of a Church but superstructory also to the welbeing of it and those to you clear and certain We know not what ye call Fundamentall and Essentiall unto a Church for the Essences of things are unknown unto us Yea the most part of the Philosophers themselves who dispute about Essences confesse that we know the Essence of nothing but that onely of man which they say is animal rationale and yet in this they dissent and many say that this is but an accidentall expression of his Being If ye cannot then declare us the Fundament and Essence of the Church ye are barbarous to us and speak in a Language as unknown to us as unto your selves Again we desire to know What ye understand here by the Being of a Church whether her internall or externall Being In Doctrine and Holinesse or in Discipline If the first it is not to the purpose for we have no Dispute here with you about the internall Being or Doctrine of the Church as ye confesse your selves but about her externall Being or Discipline And in this also we confesse our ignorance that we know not wherein consisteth its Essence or Being and that we cannot distinguish it well from its Accidents or Superstructories till ye teach us and therefore desire you to avoyd those obscure terms and to give it us in some cleerer Ye adde That they will serve to preserve your Churches in peace whereof ye were not content Sect. 6 saying That howsoever Presbyteriall Government obtained this end yet it differenced them not from carnall Christians In your third Directory Principle Sect. 13. Pag. 11. ye go very subtillie to work by Metaphysicall Abstractions as Philosophers in abstracting their Genericall degrees of Essences from the speciall and their Specificall from their Individuall For ye take some thing wherein we all consent but not all to the end there may be something wherein ye dissent from us all And so did the Arminians in their Confession of Faith wherein they abstracted a degree of consent amongst the most part of Christians yea with the Socinians who deny the Trinitie and the Incarnation of the Son of God and left that wherein they dissented as indifferent But this cannot hold For howsoever that wherein ye agree with us be safe yet is not that so safe wherein ye dissent from us all Neither is it safe for so few men to dissent From all the World unlesse they have very strong reasons for their dissent and principallie when the point wherein they dissent is not of great importance For the lesse it is the greater is the Schisme Besides this in this Directory Principle howsoever ye seem to defer and attribute very much to all Churches in following their common Practises yet ye give them nothing at all for ye submit their judgement to your own and whatsoever they hold commonly against you ye call it an Additament so that ye are not ready in any thing to assent with them unlesse they first assent unto you which is a very prudent and subtle Principle as well to direct them by you as you by them 3. This Principle also cannot hold 1. For in vertue thereof ye have as well Union and Communion with Socinians Arrians Anabaptists Papists Jesuites and other Hereticks as with us howbeit not so much for ye consent with them all in some common Principles as with us And so as for your dissent in particular Principles from them ye may separate and do separate your selves in effect from them so must ye do from us unlesse ye shew us some other reason of Externall Union and Separation then yet you do Before I quit this Paragraph or Section I must pray the Reader to note your subtle way of disputing how ye chuse some things wherein you and we agree calling the test Additaments to the end ye may not be bound to prove any thing But this subtiltie is sowed but with white thred so as it evidentlie appears to all men and will serve you for nothing 1. For either these Additaments are conform or repugnant to Gods Word or indifferent If conform wherefore reject ye them If repugnant ye are bound to prove it by the Word how they are condemned by it If indifferent ye have no reason to condemn them or for them to be such eager Suitors for a Toleration of a contrary practise 2. Item If that which we have more then these common Principles be an Additament what be those that ye hold instead of them For ye remain not within the Limits of bare Abstractions and Precisions but proceed farther to some particular Positive Principles in your practise for every Negation is founded in some Affirmation and sin is not a meer Negation of good but also includeth something Positivelie contrary to good either Physically or Morally Really or by reason § 14. p. 11. Ye bring some Instances of this Principle 1. About the qualification of the Members of the Church and promiscuous receiving of good and bad And say That ye chuse the better part viz. the good and not the bad which ye suppose to be the practise of all Protestant Churches So ye must judge all Infants born in the Church and admitted to Baptism amongst you to be good and to have some portion of Christ before they have the use of reason to know Christ and so to be regenerate when they are generated or to consort your selves with the Anabaptists here in England in excluding Children from Baptism till they have the use of reason and professe Faith for in Independencie and all other things they agree with you as they themselves avow But of this question about the Members of the Church we shall God willing hear more hereafter in a particular question Ten lines after ye say That the Rules which ye gave up your judgements unto to judge those ye received in amongst you by were of that Latitude as would take in any Member of Christ the meanest in whom there may be supposed to be the least of Christ Pag. 11 12. If this be understood of the receiving of men to the Church absolutely or of their first entry therein we have answered already and by the grace of God shall answer more hereafter If of the reception of them
1. Because ye found the spirits of the people of this Kingdom that professe or pretend to the power of godlinesse ready to take any impressions and to be cast in any mould that hath but the appearance of a stricter way 2. Because that the mists gathered about you begun to scatter 3. Because ye published not your opinions by Preaching although ye had the Pulpits free nor in Print although the Presses were more free then the Pulpits Answ Your Partie will deny the Assumption for if ye and the rest of your Partie made it not up how is it made up in this Kingdom As for the proof of your Provocations We have answered already to the first The third and fourth we allow it not if any man hath done so To the second we shall answer hereafter And as for the fifth good Sheepherds could not without an abominable prevarication but write against yours and all other mens Innovations when they saw so many Sects multiplied and Woolfs creeping in so fast into Christs Sheep-fold to devour the flock 2. If ye blame our faithfull Ministers for maintaining the Truth already received what shall we say of your folks who have first published Books against the Truth 3. What shall we say of those of your Colleagues who heretofore preached your Tenets with great offence here in publike And who still run busily up and down to make Proselytes To the second proof your Assumption 1. We have already answered that it is made but how we know not 2. What were those people that professe and pretend to any power of godlinesse so ready to take any impression and to make a Partie ye tell not We wish to know whether they be Brownists Anabaptists or of what other Sect 3. Your Covenant obligeth you to declare it unto the Parliament however ye reveal it not unto us 4. Certainly true Professors of godlinesse are not so susceptible of any impressions much lesse to become factious 5. And therefore ye adde well or pretend for such men pretend onely to godlinesse but have renounced in effect the power thereof Here we see howsoever ye pretend not to be States-men yet ye know as much of it as the Presbyterians Your second occasion was the dissipations of mists c. If so and onely so then what needed this Apologeticall Narration § 25. Pag. 25. To the third occasion whether ye had the Pulpits so free or feared to have them lesse free afterwards I dispute not ye know that well enough Onely this I know That some of your Brethren having given themselves libertie to speak somewhat freely in favour of your opinions were afterwards discountenanced and became more prudent and circumspect in venting of themselves If ye printed not your opinions it may be ye deal more prudently in teaching them in private then in publishing them in Print And here ye shew how your Charitie is grown cold for in the beginning when so many mists were gathered about you for fear of Schisme out of meet Charitie ye abstained from writing and now when they are scattered ye write Your third Grievance is the reproach of that proud and insolent title of Independency Answ Ye decline that proud Title but will no wayes quit the thing signified by the Title in that ye maintain the Independency of every one of your Churches from all Ecclesiasticall Authoritie or Authoritative Power of any Ecclesiasticall Assembly yea some of your Profession say That it belongs not to the Magistrate to punish any man for his Religion be it never so odious and wicked as we have heard from their own mouths So that there is another new Independency If it be replied here That I did prove before that ye acknowledge some Ecclesiasticall Authoritie whereunto your particular Churches are subject I answer It is but by necessary consequence that they must hold it and not interminis or expresly that they beleeve it for they deny interminis what they must grant by consequence It is drawn out of the evasions that they bring against our Reasons whereby whilest they seek to escape they are catcht Pag. 4. Your fourth Grievance whereof ye complain and bewall your selves is Brownisme together with all their Opinions wherewith ye are traduced Answ But ye disclaim not Brownisme and their Opinions absolutely but with a restriction and secundum quid viz. As they have stated and maintained them 2. By another limitation viz. That ye differ much from them not in re sed in modo rei It may be ye hold and maintain the same opinions but not the same way And yet ye sympathize very much with them in puining untoward names upon us but not upon them There also ye declare what ye confesse and beleeve viz. The trueth to lye in a middle way betwixt Brownisme and the Authoritative Presbyteriall Government Answ But this is nothing but your errour Veritie consisteth not in the middle of this or that which ye imagine but in a conformitie of our conceptions with their object and due measure which in this matter is onely Gods Word revealed in the holy Scriptures and according to this rule I take Presbyterian Government rather to be the middle betwixt Popish Tyranny and Independent Anarchy § 25. Pag. 25. Your fifth Grievance is Some incitements to this State not to allow us say ye the peaceable practises of our Consciences which the Reformed Churches abroad allowed us Answ If any man incited the State not to allow you a peaceable practise of your new Religion they did according to their conscience as your new-New-England men do with those of our Religion and as some say that some of you five would do with us Their Reasons might have been these 1. Because it cannot but open a door to all sorts of erroneous Opinions 2. It is dangerous for the State it may breed factions and divisions betwixt all persons of whatsoever relation betwixt the Magistrate and the Subject the Husband and the Wife the Father and the Son Brethren Sisters the Master and the Servant when the one is of one Religion or Ecclesiasticall Government and the other of another as ye have experimented The Son may refuse to receive any communion with the Father and the Brother with the Brother and so dissolve all naturall civill and domesticall bands of Societie 3. No State in Christendome where there is one onely Religion established will admit the publike exercise of any other or endure a Schisme in that which is already received Wherefore then should it be done here 4. If it be granted to our Brethren I cannot see how it can well be denyed to other Sects If it be said That other Sects differ more from us then they do it is all one Magis minus non mutant Speciem in matter of Toleration for then all must be tolerated howsoever some more some lesse And some of our Brethren grant all the Argument And if we distinguish so ye must declare and expound cleerly what Sects and
what Opinions are to be tolerated and what not which will be a question inextricable which no mortall man appearingly is able distinctly to determine And some may say The lesse the difference be the lesse need is there for a Toleration to be granted to such a Sect For the lesse it be the greater is the Schisme 5. God in the Old Testament granted no Toleration of divers Religions or Disciplines and the New Testament requireth no lesse union amongst Christians then the old amongst the Jews 6. Either our Brethren do assent to our Doctrine and are resolved likewise to assent to the Discipline which God willing shall be established by common consent or do not If they grant the first what need they any other Toleration then the rest If the second it would be first discussed wherein they are resolved to dissent and afterwards considered whether it be of so great importance that in consideration thereof they dare not in good Conscience entertain communion with us 7. They are not pressed to be Actors in any thing against their Consciences Ergo They need not to be suiters for a Toleration or if they be it may justly be refused 8. It is against the nature of the Communion of Saints to live in Sects apart without communicating at the Lords Table which very hardly will be avoided if Toleration be granted 9. Because the Scripture exhorts us evermore unto unitie which cannot be easily procured by a Toleration of Sects which cannot but daily beget new Schismes and Divisions 10. Because there was greater difference amongst the Members of the Church of Corinth in the rim of Saint Paul and yet they communicated together yea the Apostle exhorted them unto mutuall communion and forbearance of Sects and Divisions 11. Because the Opinion of our Brethren symbolizeth too much with that of the Donatists who separated themselves from other Churches under pretext that they were not so holy as their own Neither is it unlike to the Convents and Monasteries amongst the Papists for as they all professe one Doctrine with the Romish Church and yet every Order hath its own Discipline that of S. Francis one that of S. Dominick another and in every Order one Generall and in every Monastery one Abbot Prior or President So all your Churches beleeve one Doctrine together with us and every one of your Churches hath one Minister as their Convents a particular Abbot or Prior. Ye onely differ in this That ye have no Generall or any thing answerable thereunto to keep you in unitie and conformitie 12. It is the Civill Magistrates part to take away Heresies Superstitions and Corruptions in manners after the examples of the Kings of Juda Wherefore then is not his dutie likewise to take away all Schismes which are the high-way to Heresie and consequently to deny Toleration which is a way to both 13. We have but one God one Christ and one Lord one Spirit we are one Body we have one Faith and one Baptism whereby we enter into the Church Wherefore shall we not have one Communion whereby to be spiritually fed and one Discipline to be ruled by 14. If Churches have Disciplines or Governments different in their Species then the Churches must be different in their Species also for all Collective bodies or Consociations that are governed are differenced by their different Governments as we see in Civill Government in the Constitution and Distinction of States Kingdoms and Republikes Wherefore as many divers Governments as there be in Churches as many different Species of Churches must we admit of I speak here of the Church considered according to her visible forme but the consequent is false since there is but one Church Ergo. 15. Neither Christ nor his Apostles ever granted any Toleration to divers Sects and Governments in the Church wherefore then will ye be Suiters for that which they never granted 16. Yea your new-New-England men whose wayes and practises in Government ye say are improved to a better Edition and greater refinement whom ye compare with our Father Abraham Pag. 5. tolerated not their Brethren who did hazard their lives in that voyage but made them go again as our Father Abraham to seek out some new Habitations in strange Countreyes yea in strange Wildernesses for themselves and their seed after them yea they would not so much as some very godly and learned Divine relateth in his learned Book against Toleration as receive some men otherwise approved by themselves both for their life and Doctrine to live in any corner of New-England howsoever here they were in danger to be persecuted for Non-conformitie And that mee ly because they differed a little from them in point of Discipline How then can our Brethren of that profession be Suiters for a Toleration in Old England where they are no more persecuted when as those of their profession refused it to those of New-England in time of great persecution Is it not to be feared That if they had the upper hand over us here as there they should send us all to some Isle of Dogs as they have done others 17. Besides all this the Scripture forbiddeth all such Toleration Reve. 2 20 1 Cor 1.12 as that of Jezabel There must be no such speeches amongst us as I am of Paul I of Apollos I of Cephas nor that some are Calvinians as ye terme us some Independenters some Brownists some Anabaptists c. We must all be Christs we must all think and speak the same things Vers 10. Otherwise men are carnall 1 Cor. 3.3 1 Cor. 11.16 18 19 20. Heb 10.25 Gal. 5.12 Neither hath the Church of God a custome to be contentious Neither permitteth the Apostle Schismes We must not quit our mutuall meetings as others do and as must be done in a publike Toleration They that trouble the Church must be cut off 18. Such a Toleration cannot but expose our Churches unto the calumnies of Papists who evermore object unto Protestants the innumerable number of their Sects whereas they pretend to be nothing but one Church 19. Of such a Toleration follows all we formerly deduced out of Independency 20. If it be granted it cannot but be thought that it hath been granted or rather extorted by force of Reason and that all the Assembly were not able to answer our Brethrens whereas indeed their Opinion and Demands are against all Reason as sundry of themselves could not deny and had nothing to say save onely that it was Gods Ordinance which yet they never could shew out of Gods Word On the contrary if it be refused it will help to confirm the Churches and the people in the Truth 21. Neither can it but overthrow all sort of Ecclesiasticall Government for a man being censured in one Church may fly to another and being again suspended in that other from thence to another and so scorn all the Churches of God and their Censures And so this order by necessary consequence will breed all sort