difference_n but_o evermore_o by_o their_o externall_n cause_n or_o by_o their_o accident_n and_o sometime_o by_o their_o opposite_n and_o negation_n of_o some_o other_o thing_n the_o very_a apprentice_n in_o logic_n know_v thus_o much_o 4._o but_o if_o we_o know_v the_o essence_n of_o thing_n in_o themselves_o as_o this_o m.s._n pretend_v if_o he_o say_v any_o thing_n to_o purpose_n how_o be_v it_o that_o there_o be_v so_o great_a debate_n about_o they_o as_o 1._o about_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o man_n whether_o it_o be_v spiritual_a or_o corporal_a 2._o about_o the_o total_a essence_n of_o a_o man_n whether_o it_o be_v the_o soul_n alone_o his_o soul_n and_o body_n the_o soul_n and_o its_o materia_fw-la prima_fw-la the_o union_n of_o both_o the_o image_n of_o god_n religion_n or_o some_o other_o thing_n and_o to_o urge_v this_o more_o home_n upon_o your_o example_n of_o the_o light_n if_o we_o know_v the_o essence_n of_o thing_n distinct_o and_o in_o themselves_o as_o i_o say_v what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o so_o great_a a_o diversity_n yea_o of_o so_o great_a a_o contrariety_n of_o opinion_n about_o its_o essence_n or_o nature_n how_o be_v it_o that_o some_o philosopher_n hold_v it_o to_o be_v in_o some_o predicament_n other_o to_o be_v in_o none_o some_o to_o be_v a_o substance_n other_o a_o accident_n some_o to_o be_v a_o spiritual_a substance_n other_o to_o be_v a_o body_n other_o neither_o viz._n neither_o to_o be_v a_o corporeal_a nor_o a_o spiritual_a but_o a_o spiritalis_fw-la substantia_fw-la other_o the_o presence_n of_o a_o luminous_a body_n other_o a_o real_a colour_n other_o a_o apparent_a colour_n other_o a_o spiritual_a quality_n some_o a_o natural_a power_n other_o a_o sensible_a quality_n if_o we_o know_v it_o essential_o and_o distinct_o in_o itself_o and_o not_o mere_o accidental_o we_o can_v not_o so_o doubt_v of_o its_o essence_n wherein_o it_o consist_v but_o it_o seem_v that_o this_o man_n doctor_n holmes_n and_o some_o of_o that_o sect_n be_v as_o heretical_a in_o philosophy_n as_o schismatical_a in_o divinity_n and_o so_o they_o have_v conspire_v with_o as_o little_a success_n against_o natural_a as_o against_o divine_a truth_n m.s._n say_v that_o my_o meaning_n may_v be_v that_o if_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v for_o independency_n the_o practice_n of_o it_o shall_v become_v a_o schism_n from_o the_o presbyterian_a church_n a.s._n no_o such_o thing_n but_o i_o maintain_v that_o independency_n be_v already_o at_o least_o material_o yea_o formal_o ratione_fw-la formae_fw-la essentialis_fw-la &_o in_o foro_fw-la conscientiae_fw-la interno_fw-la a_o schism_n from_o all_o the_o true_a church_n in_o the_o world_n since_o they_o willing_o have_v separate_v themselves_o from_o they_o all_o in_o matter_n of_o sacramental_a communion_n as_o also_o in_o that_o of_o discipline_n and_o you_o shall_v have_v do_v well_o to_o have_v answer_v this_o which_o no_o doubt_n you_o meet_v with_o in_o my_o former_a book_n and_o not_o oblige_v i_o to_o repeat_v it_o here_o it_o will_v also_o be_v a_o schism_n ratione_fw-la formae_fw-la accidentalis_fw-la externae_fw-la &_o in_o fore_n externo_fw-la from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n if_o in_o god_n mercy_n any_o other_o discipline_n then_o independent_a be_v establish_v in_o it_o so_o be_v it_o also_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o presbyterian_a church_n which_o be_v already_o establish_v in_o france_n holland_n etc._n etc._n yea_o and_o here_o in_o england_n in_o the_o french_a dutch_a italian_a and_o spanish_a church_n so_o be_v it_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n the_o discipline_n whereof_o be_v approve_v by_o the_o king_n which_o you_o have_v all_o swear_v to_o maintain_v but_o say_v he_o we_o have_v no_o presbyterian_a church_n among_o we_o and_o so_o if_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v before_o such_o a_o government_n be_v establish_v it_o be_v apparent_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d out_o of_o the_o reach_n of_o such_o a_o imputation_n for_o ever_o a._n s._n 1._o it_o be_v false_a that_o we_o have_v no_o presbyterian_a church_n among_o we_o we_o have_v it_o in_o the_o french_a dutch_a and_o other_o church_n wherewith_o the_o church_n of_o england_n profess_v evermore_o a_o sacramental_a communion_n which_o the_o independent_o break_v 2._o whether_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o the_o parliament_n or_o not_o that_o hinder_v it_o not_o from_o be_v a_o schism_n for_o the_o toleration_n of_o the_o parliament_n be_v altogether_o extrinsecall_v to_o schism_n and_o there_o be_v schism_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n without_o any_o toleration_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n 3._o his_o supposition_n be_v impious_a and_o ridiculous_a for_o toleration_n according_a to_o m.s._n his_o judgement_n be_v evermore_o of_o some_o real_a or_o at_o least_o of_o some_o apparent_a evil_n now_o can_v the_o parliament_n or_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n in_o good_a conscience_n tolerate_v a_o ill_a government_n before_o that_o they_o establish_v any_o good_a one_o be_v not_o that_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o devil_n to_o serve_v he_o before_o that_o we_o serve_v god_n shall_v not_o the_o parliament_n begin_v with_o you_o as_o the_o most_o considerable_a party_n a._n s._n his_o 4._o reason_n if_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v to_o our_o brethren_n i_o can_v see_v how_o it_o can_v be_v well_o deny_v to_o other_o sect_n m.s._n answer_v that_o bernardus_n non_fw-la videt_fw-la omne_fw-la a.s._n but_o i_o pray_v you_o then_o father_n epistemon_n that_o see_v all_o thing_n make_v i_o by_o some_o reason_n or_o other_o to_o see_v how_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v to_o other_o sect_n for_o there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n for_o a_o toleration_n of_o they_o all_o m.s._n bring_v this_o reason_n he_o say_v he_o that_o keep_v a_o door_n with_o lock_n and_o key_n and_o bolt_n to_o it_o may_v let_v in_o one_o man_n that_o knock_v without_o let_v in_o all_o comer_n a.s._n but_o if_o the_o other_o knock_v also_o wherefore_o will_v he_o not_o open_v to_o he_o and_o let_v he_o in_o as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o if_o he_o open_v not_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n but_o will_v that_o keep_v he_o out_o so_o there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n but_o not_o the_o same_o will_n for_o both_o it_o be_v a_o mere_a prosopolepsiia_n or_o acceptation_n of_o person_n which_o be_v not_o well_o do_v if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o other_o sect_n differ_v more_o from_o we_o than_o the_o independent_o ans_fw-fr 1._o it_o be_v all_o one_o magis_fw-la &_o minus_fw-la non_fw-la mutant_fw-la speciem_fw-la in_o matter_n of_o toleration_n 1._o for_o then_o all_o must_v be_v tolerate_v howsoever_o some_o more_o some_o less_o 2._o and_o some_o of_o our_o brethren_n viz._n m._n s._n grant_v all_o the_o argument_n 3._o and_o if_o we_o distinguish_v so_o they_o must_v declare_v and_o expound_v clear_o what_o sect_n and_o what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v and_o what_o not_o which_o will_v be_v a_o question_n inextricable_a which_o no_o mortal_a man_n appear_o be_v able_a distinct_o to_o determine_v m._n s._n answer_v not_o to_o any_o of_o my_o reason_n only_o he_o be_v offend_v that_o i_o say_v it_o be_v a_o question_n inextricable_a etc._n etc._n he_o say_v then_o 1._o that_o i_o prevaricate_v with_o my_o own_o cause_n but_o wherein_o here_o altum_fw-la silentium_fw-la 2._o he_o say_v that_o i_o put_v the_o magistrate_n to_o a_o stand_n whether_o he_o shall_v tolerate_v presbyterian_a government_n or_o not_o but_o i_o have_v already_o answer_v 1._o that_o it_o be_v already_o approve_a here_o in_o england_n in_o the_o french_a dutch_a italian_a and_o spanish_a church_n 2._o that_o the_o english_a divine_n in_o the_o name_n of_o all_o this_o kingdom_n approve_v it_o in_o holland_n 3._o that_o the_o king_n majesty_n confirm_v it_o in_o scotland_n 4._o that_o we_o entertain_v sacramental_a communion_n with_o all_o the_o protestant_n reform_v church_n and_o that_o the_o independent_o alone_o do_v quit_v it_o 5._o that_o all_o the_o three_o kingdom_n and_o the_o independent_o with_o they_o by_o their_o covenant_n and_o oath_n be_v bind_v to_o maintain_v presbyterial_a government_n in_o scotland_n 6._o and_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o reform_v the_o church_n of_o england_n according_a to_o the_o example_n of_o the_o best_a reform_a protestant_a church_n and_o namely_o that_o of_o scotland_n which_o all_o have_v only_a presbyterian_a government_n 7._o and_o we_o have_v sufficient_o confirm_v it_o by_o sundry_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n and_o other_o argument_n ground_v on_o scripture_n 8._o neither_o be_v this_o his_o question_n to_o the_o purpose_n for_o quaestio_fw-la quaestionem_fw-la non_fw-la solvit_fw-la i_o ask_v he_o what_o sect_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v in_o a_o kingdom_n wherein_o the_o true_a doctrine_n and_o true_a discipline_n according_a to_o the_o public_a judgement_n both_o of_o the_o state_n and_o of_o the_o church_n be_v establish_v
yea_o if_o it_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n it_o shall_v seem_v good_a to_o all_o his_o minister_n 2._o and_o i_o pray_v you_o m.s._n when_o it_o seem_v good_a to_o a_o independent_a minister_n to_o declare_v the_o doctrine_n that_o deni_v christ_n divinity_n heretical_a whether_o think_v you_o seem_v it_o not_o good_a to_o god_n and_o to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n also_o and_o if_o it_o seem_v good_a to_o both_o why_o may_v not_o the_o minister_n say_v it_o seem_v good_a to_o god_n and_o to_o i_o also_o to_o declare_v this_o heretical_a 3._o and_o if_o that_o be_v bind_v or_o loose_v in_o heaven_n which_o the_o church_n bind_v or_o lose_v on_o earth_n wherefore_o when_o they_o bound_v or_o loose_a sinner_n may_v they_o not_o say_v it_o seem_v good_a to_o god_n and_o to_o i_o also_o to_o loose_v this_o sinner_n to_o the_o 10._o i_o answer_v it_o be_v altogether_o ridiculous_a for_o this_o one_o particular_a expression_n contain_v not_o all_o the_o expression_n that_o be_v use_v in_o ecclesiastical_a judgement_n the_o church_n use_v not_o evermore_o commination_n in_o her_o judgement_n but_o against_o such_o as_o be_v disobedient_a and_o that_o after_o sundry_a admonition_n neither_o be_v every_o judgement_n or_o law_n evermore_o express_o penal_a as_o you_o may_v have_v learn_v both_o out_o of_o your_o civil_a and_o canon_n law_n chap._n viii_o wherein_o the_o same_o doctrine_n be_v further_o confirm_v by_o reason_n this_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n may_v be_v likewise_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n there_o be_v synagogicall_a and_o synedriall_a judicatories_n among_o they_o there_o be_v a_o subordination_n and_o from_o the_o first_o they_o appeal_v to_o the_o second_o neither_o find_v we_o ever_o that_o god_n abrogate_a it_o since_o it_o be_v not_o ceremonial_a as_o i_o have_v show_v 2._o it_o may_v likewise_o be_v prove_v from_o the_o subordination_n of_o civil_a judicatories_n in_o all_o great_a civil_a state_n and_o there_o be_v a_o like_a reason_n for_o they_o both_o 3._o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o there_o be_v ecclesiastical_a assembly_n great_a in_o authority_n one_o then_o another_o as_o appeareth_z by_o all_o these_o former_a text_n either_o this_o inequality_n of_o greatness_n or_o power_n be_v by_o co-ordination_a or_o by_o subordination_n but_o it_o can_v be_v by_o co-ordination_a for_o one_o coordinate_a power_n have_v no_o power_n over_o the_o other_o as_o that_o of_o jerusalem_n have_v over_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n in_o give_v they_o a_o pastor_n act._n 1.2_o &_o 6._o chap._n and_o law_n and_o command_n act._n 15._o &_o 16._o ergo_fw-la it_o must_v be_v by_o subordination_n and_o then_o the_o power_n of_o the_o subordinate_a church_n be_v under_o that_o of_o the_o superior_a church_n whereunto_o it_o be_v subordinate_v as_o in_o civil_a judicatories_n subordinate_v one_o to_o another_o 4._o if_o there_o be_v no_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n in_o matter_n of_o power_n and_o authority_n or_o their_o authoritative_a power_n then_o any_o particular_a congregation_n by_o a_o irresistible_a power_n in_o despite_n of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o the_o world_n may_v establish_v among_o themselves_o all_o sort_n of_o most_o damnable_a heresy_n commit_v all_o sort_n of_o sin_n and_o uncleanness_n and_o so_o infect_v all_o the_o world_n with_o their_o wickedness_n and_o no_o church_n or_o christian_n qua_fw-la tale_n can_v hinder_v they_o or_o say_v to_o they_o even_o as_o the_o pope_n pretend_v they_o can_v say_v to_o he_o domine_fw-la quare_fw-la hoc_fw-la facis_fw-la 5._o but_o can_v our_o adversary_n rise_v up_o of_o the_o new_a show_v any_o such_o government_n as_o they_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o any_o time_n since_o christ_n incarnation_n yea_o from_o the_o creation_n of_o the_o world_n to_o this_o time_n wherein_o there_o be_v no_o subalternation_n but_o a_o mere_a independency_n among_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n we_o can_v wish_v they_o will_v show_v we_o the_o institution_n of_o it_o in_o scripture_n where_o any_o where_o christ_n command_v that_o all_o church_n shall_v be_v altogether_o independent_a and_o consequent_o incorrigible_a where_o at_o any_o time_n he_o grant_v they_o such_o a_o licentiousness_n of_o power_n to_o go_v irresistable_o to_o hell_n what_o a_o abominable_a licentiousness_n be_v this_o to_o plead_v on_o this_o manner_n for_o all_o sort_n of_o independency_n and_o of_o ecclesiastical_a impunity_n in_o do_v of_o all_o sort_n of_o wickedness_n and_o mischief_n 6._o the_o want_n of_o this_o subordination_n take_v away_o all_o sort_n of_o remedy_n against_o the_o offence_n of_o particular_a congregation_n 7._o it_o destroy_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o militant_a visible_a church_n both_o provincial_n nationall_n and_o universal_a which_o can_v appear_v but_o in_o a_o provincial_n nationall_n or_o universal_a synod_n or_o council_n 8._o and_o consequent_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n for_o she_o be_v not_o visible_a but_o in_o her_o symbol_n or_o confession_n of_o faith_n and_o canon_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o symbol_n of_o the_o apostle_n 9_o to_o take_v away_o such_o representative_a church_n as_o synod_n be_v to_o destroy_v the_o externall_n church-communion_n of_o saint_n or_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n among_o divers_a church_n which_o can_v so_o well_o appear_v as_o in_o synod_n where_o their_o real_a communion_n one_o with_o another_o be_v best_a represent_v for_o if_o particular_a church_n be_v destroy_v by_o persecution_n and_o a_o little_a remnant_n escape_v as_o sometime_o it_o fall_v out_o upon_o the_o turk_n invasion_n and_o the_o papist_n massacre_n as_o woeful_a experience_n have_v furnish_v we_o but_o too_o many_o example_n in_o germany_n france_n england_n and_o elsewhere_o what_o externall_n union_n or_o communion_n of_o saint_n can_v appear_v among_o you_o since_o in_o such_o a_o case_n you_o will_v neither_o receive_v man_n in_o age_n to_o the_o lord_n table_n nor_o the_o child_n of_o such_o martyr_n to_o baptism_n and_o so_o all_o the_o recompense_n they_o can_v have_v among_o you_o for_o all_o their_o suffering_n for_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n be_v that_o they_o be_v like_a to_o be_v utter_o exclude_v from_o all_o church-communion_n whatsoever_o 10._o so_o this_o be_v a_o very_a poor_a comfort_n for_o martyr_n who_o have_v suffer_v much_o in_o their_o own_o person_n lose_v their_o wife_n child_n and_o good_n for_o the_o good_a name_n of_o christ_n shall_v no_o more_o now_o be_v esteem_v christian_n after_o all_o their_o suffering_n whereas_o they_o be_v think_v to_o be_v of_o the_o very_o best_a before_o that_o time_n 11._o such_o a_o subordination_n of_o representative_a church_n in_o matter_n of_o government_n be_v a_o mean_n very_o necessary_a to_o conserve_v the_o church_n for_o by_o the_o authoritative_a power_n thereof_o church_n be_v keep_v in_o order_n unity_n and_o union_n and_o so_o preserve_v as_o we_o see_v in_o france_n holland_n scotland_n and_o elsewhere_o ever_o since_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o world_n whereas_o by_o the_o contrary_a independent_a way_n consist_v of_o dis-union_n they_o may_v easy_o be_v destroy_v as_o we_o see_v in_o the_o innumerable_a number_n of_o sect_n that_o in_o a_o short_a space_n of_o time_n have_v sprout_v out_o of_o the_o independent_a sect_n no_o less_o opposite_a one_o to_o another_o then_o to_o we_o 12._o if_o there_o be_v no_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n but_o every_o one_o be_v independent_a and_o every_o member_n of_o the_o church_n have_v a_o vote_n in_o all_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n and_o be_v make_v acquaint_v with_o all_o that_o pass_v as_o among_o the_o independent_o hardly_o can_v the_o counsel_n and_o the_o resolution_n that_o be_v take_v for_o mutual_a conservation_n be_v keep_v secret_a but_o they_o will_v every_o hour_n be_v betray_v and_o so_o the_o church_n give_v up_o to_o her_o enemy_n which_o appear_o can_v so_o easy_o fall_v out_o in_o the_o synodical_a way_n wherein_o 20._o 30._o or_o 40._o only_a and_o those_o of_o the_o best_a sort_n and_o the_o wise_a man_n be_v acquaint_v with_o the_o business_n for_o in_o all_o moral_a probability_n it_o be_v not_o credible_a but_o 20._o 30._o or_o 40._o may_n better_o keep_v a_o business_n secret_a then_o 20000._o or_o 30000_o whereof_o the_o church_n that_o they_o represent_v may_v be_v compound_v 13._o since_o christ_n ordain_v universal_a minister_n to_o rule_v over_o the_o whole_a militant_a church_n and_o all_o the_o particular_a congregation_n thereof_o wherefore_o shall_v there_o not_o be_v some_o unity_n of_o government_n among_o they_o and_o wherefore_o may_v they_o not_o all_o depend_v on_o one_o council_n as_o well_o as_o on_o one_o man_n certain_o there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n for_o both_o for_o as_o the_o apostle_n
but_o to_o live_v together_o as_o moses_n and_o aaron_n both_o look_v to_o one_o end_n but_o each_o one_o of_o they_o with_o their_o own_o eye_n the_o one_o with_o a_o political_a the_o other_o with_o a_o spiritual_a or_o ecclesiastical_a eye_n and_o this_o appear_v by_o those_o word_n of_o the_o ordinance_n during_o this_o present_a parliament_n or_o until_o further_a order_n be_v take_v now_o if_o this_o order_n be_v full_a what_o need_v the_o synod_n attend_v for_o a_o further_a order_n neither_o be_v there_o any_o man_n of_o judgement_n that_o can_v blame_v the_o parliament_n in_o all_o this_o yea_o howbeit_o it_o shall_v extraordinary_o do_v more_o in_o this_o extraordinary_o miserable_a estate_n of_o religion_n when_o now_o satan_n have_v so_o manifest_a and_o palpable_a a_o entrance_n into_o the_o church_n of_o god_n under_o so_o many_o ill-portending_a shape_n as_o of_o independent_o brownist_n anabaptist_n socinian_o etc._n etc._n they_o have_v need_n take_v upon_o they_o for_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o church_n more_o than_o in_o ordinary_a case_n they_o do_v 7._o only_o i_o add_v a_o word_n viz._n that_o these_o word_n as_o they_o please_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n be_v not_o in_o the_o ordinance_n but_o be_v a_o addition_n of_o m._n s._n in_o contempt_n of_o the_o synod_n as_o if_o the_o member_n thereof_o vote_v not_o according_a to_o scripture_n but_o as_o please_v themselves_o and_o 8._o that_o in_o case_n of_o difference_n in_o opinion_n it_o be_v not_o ordain_v that_o they_o represent_v their_o opinion_n and_o the_o reason_n thereof_o to_o either_o or_o both_o the_o house_n to_o the_o end_n that_o they_o may_v judge_v of_o the_o matter_n but_o that_o they_o may_v find_v out_o some_o further_a direction_n whereby_o the_o assembly_n may_v judge_v it_o 9_o yea_o there_o be_v another_o ordinance_n since_o the_o print_a ordinance_n whereby_o it_o be_v ordain_v that_o all_o thing_n agree_v upon_o and_o prepare_v for_o the_o parliament_n shall_v be_v open_o read_v and_o allow_v in_o the_o assembly_n and_o then_o offer_v as_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o assembly_n if_o the_o major_a part_n consent_n see_v how_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o major_a part_n of_o the_o assembly_n be_v here_o declare_v by_o the_o parliament_n to_o be_v acknowledge_v as_o the_o decision_n of_o the_o assembly_n which_o m._n s._n will_v not_o stand_v unto_o object_n 9_o in_o enjoin_v they_o in_o case_n of_o difference_n of_o opinion_n between_o they_o to_o present_v the_o same_o together_o with_o the_o reason_n thereof_o to_o both_o house_n they_o do_v every_o whit_n as_o much_o a.s._n answ_n 1._o i_o deny_v that_o they_o who_o enjoin_v in_o case_n of_o difference_n etc._n etc._n have_v a_o internal_a power_n in_o the_o church_n much_o less_o a_o internal_a directive_n power_n 2._o this_o injunction_n be_v not_o in_o reference_n to_o the_o intrinsical_a power_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v evermore_o within_o the_o church_n but_o to_o the_o extrinsecall_a power_n about_o the_o church_n i.e._n to_o that_o of_o the_o magistrate_n who_o power_n be_v without_o the_o church_n howsoever_o within_o the_o state_n and_o in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o the_o parliament_n by_o civil_a law_n intend_v to_o approve_v and_o confirm_v the_o ecclesiastical_a law_n 3._o item_n it_o be_v to_o see_v if_o by_o any_o mean_n and_o way_n of_o meekness_n it_o can_v persuade_v a_o few_o man_n of_o your_o sect_n to_o submit_v themselves_o unto_o the_o order_n and_o government_n that_o god_n have_v establish_v in_o his_o church_n as_o they_o have_v do_v you_o many_o other_o favour_n which_o you_o too_o much_o undervalue_v argue_v from_o this_o favour_n as_o from_o a_o law_n to_o that_o which_o be_v or_o shall_v be_v ordinary_a justice_n and_o yet_o they_o ordain_v that_o what_o be_v carry_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n in_o the_o assembly_n shall_v pass_v as_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o whole_a assembly_n object_n 10._o m.s._n in_o their_o nominate_n and_o call_v such_o and_o such_o minister_n and_o not_o other_o to_o be_v of_o the_o assembly_n they_o act_v the_o same_o power_n a.s._n answ_n that_o be_v also_o extrinsecall_v since_o it_o be_v not_o in_o but_o out_o of_o and_o before_o the_o assembly_n 2._o and_o extraordinary_a 3._o and_o yet_o very_o ordinate_a and_o ordinary_a for_o this_o extraordinary_a state_n of_o the_o church_n in_o this_o kingdom_n when_o such_o a_o swarm_n of_o sect_n be_v creep_v in_o some_o come_n from_o new_a england_n other_o from_o the_o netherlands_o and_o other_o from_o other_o place_n for_o if_o every_o one_o of_o they_o shall_v have_v have_v entry_n into_o the_o assembly_n what_o shall_v have_v become_v of_o we_o 4._o neither_o do_v this_o prove_v any_o directive_n power_n in_o the_o church_n in_o teach_v etc._n etc._n as_o i_o say_v that_o shall_v belong_v unto_o the_o magistrate_n m.s._n ob._n 11._o in_o frame_v the_o temper_n and_o constitution_n of_o the_o assembly_n allay_v it_o with_o such_o and_o such_o member_n of_o their_o own_o they_o steer_v the_o same_o course_n a.s._n answ_n 1._o this_o can_v conclude_v any_o directive_n ecclesiastical_a power_n that_o belong_v unto_o the_o parliament_n 2._o these_o member_n of_o their_o own_o who_o do_v sit_v in_o the_o assembly_n if_o they_o have_v any_o vote_n do_v not_o sit_v there_o in_o quality_n of_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n for_o then_o every_o member_n of_o the_o parliament_n may_v have_v sit_v there_o but_o in_o quality_n of_o extraordinary_a ecclesiastical_a person_n according_a to_o this_o extraordinary_a state_n and_o exigence_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o if_o they_o have_v no_o vote_n at_o all_o and_o yet_o sit_v they_o be_v not_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n but_o this_o be_v a_o special_a privilege_n grant_v unto_o the_o member_n of_o the_o house_n which_o in_o other_o place_n likewise_o be_v grant_v unto_o person_n of_o mean_a rank_n yea_o unto_o stranger_n as_o we_o may_v see_v in_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n in_o their_o general_n assembly_n 4._o or_o rather_o they_o sit_v there_o in_o name_n of_o the_o parliament_n to_o procure_v by_o their_o civil_a power_n the_o externall_n order_n that_o shall_v be_v in_o such_o assembly_n but_o this_o be_v no_o ecclesiastical_a or_o internal_a power_n in_o the_o church_n but_o externall_n about_o the_o church_n such_o as_o the_o french_a king_n commissioner_n who_o be_v sometime_o papist_n have_v in_o our_o protestant_a nationall_n synod_n in_o france_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o member_n of_o our_o synod_n there_o neither_o vote_n they_o neither_o pretend_v they_o to_o have_v any_o intrinsical_v power_n there_o for_o than_o they_o shall_v profess_v themselves_o thereby_o to_o be_v protestant_n only_o they_o have_v power_n to_o oppose_v thing_n that_o they_o believe_v to_o be_v prejudicial_a to_o the_o king_n or_o the_o state_n 5._o neither_o believe_v i_o that_o they_o vote_v in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n 6._o and_o if_o they_o vote_v in_o matter_n of_o government_n they_o do_v it_o in_o quality_n of_o rule_v elder_n either_o extraordinary_a or_o ordinary_a in_o virtue_n of_o some_o virtual_a election_n make_v by_o the_o synod_n or_o by_o the_o synod_n toleration_n or_o approbation_n for_o no_o man_n can_v rule_v the_o church_n intrinsical_o but_o he_o that_o be_v intrinsical_o a_o church-ruler_n or_o officer_n as_o i_o have_v prove_v it_o heretofore_o m.s._n object_n 12._o last_o in_o their_o message_n or_o direction_n send_v unto_o they_o from_o time_n to_o time_n how_o to_o proceed_v what_o particular_n to_o wave_n for_o the_o present_a what_o to_o fall_v upon_o and_o debate_n to_o hasten_v the_o issue_n of_o their_o consultation_n with_o the_o like_a what_o do_v they_o else_o but_o claim_v and_o exercise_v such_o a_o directive_n power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n a.s._n answ_n to_o proceed_v to_o wave_v particular_n to_o debate_v thing_n and_o consult_v of_o they_o in_o the_o assembly_n argue_v a_o intrinsical_a directive_n power_n proper_a unto_o the_o church_n but_o to_o send_v message_n prove_v it_o not_o at_o all_o to_o be_v in_o the_o parliament_n but_o in_o the_o church_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n by_o his_o civil_a power_n can_v command_v the_o church_n to_o use_v its_o ecclesiastical_a power_n 2._o for_o the_o magistrate_n may_v command_v the_o like_a thing_n to_o every_o guild_n or_o common-hall_n in_o the_o city_n touch_v their_o own_o profession_n neither_o can_v it_o thereupon_o be_v infer_v that_o he_o have_v a_o intrinsical_a directive_n power_n in_o such_o trade_n chap._n viii_o wherein_o be_v answer_v his_o 13_o 14_o 15_o 16_o 17_o 18_o 19_o 20._o argument_n m.s._n p._n 37._o §_o 1._o ob._n 13._o but_o if_o the_o parliament_n have_v no_o call_n from_o god_n to_o judge_v of_o matter_n between_o the_o apologist_n and_o their_o brethren_n the_o assembler_n i_o will_v willing_o know_v who_o have_v
a.s._n answ_n the_o parliament_n have_v power_n and_o a_o call_n to_o judge_n politicè_fw-la about_o the_o church_n and_o church_n matter_n what_o decision_n and_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n assembly_n they_o will_v approve_v or_o disapprove_v what_o religion_n doctrine_n and_o discipline_n they_o will_v admit_v or_o tolerate_v in_o the_o state_n but_o they_o have_v no_o call_n or_o directive_n authoritative_a power_n in_o the_o church_n to_o judge_v this_o or_o that_o to_o be_v the_o true_a doctrine_n or_o discipline_n this_o belong_v to_o church-officer_n yet_o they_o have_v a_o private_a judgement_n of_o discretion_n about_o such_o matter_n as_o other_o christian_n and_o a_o public_a political_a authoritative_a judgement_n and_o a_o coactive_a political_a power_n to_o compel_v the_o subject_n to_o admit_v in_o the_o state_n such_o or_o such_o a_o true_a doctrine_n or_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n howbeit_o not_o to_o believe_v it_o or_o to_o love_n or_o approve_v it_o in_o their_o judgement_n or_o will_n m._n s._n ob._n 14._o ask_v whether_o it_o be_v reasonable_a that_o the_o apologist_n matter_n yet_o remain_v undecided_a and_o unjudge_v between_o they_o and_o their_o brethren_n shall_v suffer_v as_o man_n convict_v only_o because_o their_o adversary_n and_o accuser_n the_o brethren_n you_o know_v of_o be_v more_o in_o number_n than_o they_o and_o will_v needs_o continue_v adversary_n to_o they_o a.s._n answ_n 1._o though_o you_o vaunt_v evermore_o of_o your_o suffering_n we_o have_v never_o see_v they_o 2._o these_o who_o you_o unjust_o call_v your_o adversary_n have_v suffer_v much_o more_o than_o you_o and_o yet_o publish_v it_o not_o unto_o the_o world_n 3._o it_o be_v absolute_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v 4._o and_o yet_o much_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v as_o man_n convict_v 5._o and_o yet_o false_a that_o you_o suffer_v because_o your_o adversary_n be_v more_o in_o number_n and_o 6._o false_a of_o all_o that_o only_o you_o suffer_v for_o that_o 7._o man_n that_o suffer_v be_v not_o honour_v as_o you_o be_v neither_o receive_v they_o so_o great_a favour_n present_n and_o benefice_n as_o you_o do_v 8._o it_o be_v a_o great_a sufferance_n to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n to_o be_v calumniate_v and_o upbraid_v by_o so_o contemptible_a a_o number_n of_o minister_n and_o to_o see_v so_o many_o libel_n print_v against_o she_o by_o those_o of_o your_o sect._n 9_o it_o be_v false_a that_o you_o be_v not_o condemn_v for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o all_o other_o protestant_a church_n in_o approve_v the_o presbyterian_a government_n as_o we_o say_v heretofore_o can_v not_o but_o disprove_v and_o condemn_v you_o all_o who_o condemn_v it_o 10._o neither_o do_v all_o this_o prove_v a_o directive_n ecclesiastical_a power_n belong_v to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n 11._o you_o have_v no_o adversary_n here_o but_o your_o false_a opinion_n 12._o neither_o be_v your_o brethren_n adversary_n to_o you_o but_o to_o your_o erronion_n opinion_n which_o be_v a_o thousand_o time_n more_o your_o adversary_n than_o they_o 13._o and_o both_o you_o and_o any_o of_o we_o must_v legal_o suffer_v according_a to_o our_o demerit_n when_o we_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v and_o condemn_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la as_o you_o be_v already_o in_o very_a many_o thing_n for_o this_o be_v the_o way_n of_o all_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n neither_o can_v independent_o change_v it_o 15._o ibid._n m.s._n reason_v thus_o if_o our_o saviour_n testimony_n concern_v himself_o in_o his_o own_o cause_n be_v not_o valid_a how_o much_o less_o the_o testimony_n of_o any_o other_o yea_o of_o a_o thousand_o in_o any_o matter_n that_o concern_v themselves_o and_o consequent_o that_o of_o our_o brethren_n in_o the_o synod_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a joh._n 5.31_o if_o i_o bear_v witness_n of_o myself_o my_o witness_n be_v not_o true_a i._n e._n it_o be_v not_o in_o a_o formal_a and_o legal_a interpretation_n true_a but_o you_o may_v reasonable_o wave_v it_o a.s._n ans_fw-fr 1._o either_o christ_n here_o speak_v of_o his_o own_o testimony_n speak_v of_o himself_o according_a to_o his_o divine_a to_o his_o humane_a or_o according_a to_o both_o his_o nature_n item_n 2._o either_o he_o speak_v of_o its_o validity_n in_o itself_o or_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o jew_n to_o who_o he_o do_v speak_v and_o who_o shall_v have_v admit_v of_o it_o item_n 3._o either_o of_o his_o public_a and_o judicial_a or_o of_o his_o private_a testimony_n 1._o if_o in_o the_o first_o proposition_n we_o take_v our_o saviour_n according_a to_o his_o divine_a nature_n or_o according_a to_o both_o viz._n as_o mediator_n the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o there_o christ_n speak_v not_o of_o himself_o according_a to_o his_o divine_a nature_n or_o to_o both_o or_o as_o mediator_n for_o under_o that_o notion_n he_o be_v judge_n of_o quick_a and_o dead_a and_o christ_n say_v joh._n 8.14_o that_o if_o he_o testify_v of_o himself_o his_o testimony_n be_v true_a 2._o or_o if_o he_o speak_v of_o himself_o under_o this_o notion_n than_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o his_o testimony_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o but_o as_o it_o be_v in_o respect_n of_o they_o who_o receive_v it_o not_o viz_o the_o jew_n and_o unbeliever_n who_o receive_v it_o not_o as_o the_o testimony_n of_o god_n or_o of_o the_o mediator_n however_o it_o be_v such_o for_o they_o know_v he_o not_o joh._n 8.15.19_o but_o they_o judge_v according_a to_o the_o flesh_n neither_o know_v they_o he_o nor_o his_o father_n and_o if_o they_o have_v know_v the_o king_n of_o glory_n they_o have_v never_o crucify_v he_o and_o then_o the_o proposition_n be_v false_a for_o it_o follow_v not_o that_o if_o christ_n testimony_n who_o be_v god_n be_v not_o acknowledge_v as_o valid_a by_o those_o who_o know_v it_o not_o ergo_fw-la the_o testimony_n of_o a_o presbytery_n or_o synod_n shall_v not_o be_v acknowledge_v by_o such_o as_o be_v subject_a thereunto_o and_o know_v it_o for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n two_o or_o three_o idle_a fellow_n shall_v not_o believe_v the_o testimony_n of_o your_o presbytery_n or_o assembly_n 3._o i_o retort_v then_o the_o argument_n if_o christ_n testimony_n be_v not_o legal_o valid_a in_o his_o own_o cause_n ergo_fw-la you_o in_o your_o presbytery_n and_o assembly_n be_v not_o legal_o true_a or_o valid_a in_o your_o own_o cause_n when_o you_o judge_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n and_o and_o discipline_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o also_o 4._o if_o christ_n be_v here_o take_v according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n then_o either_o he_o be_v take_v according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n as_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o without_o sin_n or_o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o pharise_n estimation_n if_o in_o the_o first_o way_n the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o there_o the_o pharise_n take_v christ_n for_o a_o sinful_a man_n and_o who_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o the_o testimony_n of_o a_o man_n in_o the_o state_n of_o integrity_n be_v valid_a 5._o if_o it_o be_v take_v in_o the_o second_o way_n i_o deny_v the_o first_o proposition_n for_o the_o testimony_n of_o judge_n in_o judge_v according_a to_o law_n in_o thing_n that_o concern_v not_o so_o much_o their_o person_n as_o the_o society_n that_o they_o represent_v in_o judgement_n as_o the_o assembly_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judge_n do_v be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o the_o testimony_n of_o any_o particular_a man_n 6._o and_o if_o this_o maxim_n of_o the_o independent_o hold_v the_o judgement_n of_o no_o civil_a magistrate_n yea_o not_o of_o the_o parliament_n itself_o shâ—ll_v hold_v if_o any_o of_o they_o or_o any_o delinquent_n take_v the_o parliament_n to_o party_n in_o any_o business_n the_o parliament_n will_v do_v well_o to_o take_v notice_n of_o such_o independent_a maxim_n 7._o but_o this_o be_v the_o arminian_o way_n at_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n to_o the_o end_n they_o may_v decline_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o synod_n and_o he_o be_v a_o arminian_n who_o propound_v this_o argument_n who_o of_o late_o be_v become_v a_o independent_a i_o â—eare_z they_o mean_v to_o unite_v the_o two_o sect_n in_o one_o 8._o christ_n be_v not_o here_o speak_v of_o himself_o how_o far_o forth_o his_o testimony_n and_o judgement_n may_v hold_v in_o a_o judicial_a way_n whereof_o we_o speak_v here_o but_o in_o a_o private_a way_n for_o this_o action_n be_v not_o judicial_a but_o a_o particular_a discourse_n 9_o neither_o be_v the_o business_n now_o in_o hand_n at_o the_o synod_n of_o particular_a but_o of_o public_a concernment_n viz._n the_o church_n wherein_o the_o church_n that_o be_v judge_n can_v be_v take_v to_o party_n however_o you_o call_v she_o a_o crowd_n wherein_o many_o particular_a person_n be_v concern_v m._n s._n ob._n 16._o p._n 37._o
§_o 2._o they_o who_o be_v party_n can_v be_v their_o party_n judge_v since_o they_o be_v all_o equal_n et_fw-fr par_fw-fr in_fw-la parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la and_o to_o be_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n in_o one_o cause_n can_v be_v grant_v to_o those_o that_o have_v no_o authoritative_a power_n one_o over_o another_o as_o a.s._n himself_o affirm_v but_o the_o assembly_n be_v those_o who_o be_v party_n to_o the_o independent_o and_o nothing_o else_o but_o their_o equal_n ergo_fw-la the_o assembly_n can_v be_v their_o judge_n a._n s._n ans_fw-fr a_o party_n can_v judge_v a_o party_n i_o distinguish_v for_o either_o this_o party_n be_v only_o pretend_v and_o so_o i_o deny_v the_o major_a or_o real_a and_o then_o this_o real_a party_n either_o compear_v in_o some_o personal_a or_o real_a action_n of_o his_o own_o alone_a or_o in_o some_o cause_n of_o public_a concernment_n if_o he_o compeare_v under_o the_o first_o notion_n the_o major_n be_v true_a but_o the_o minor_a be_v false_a for_o the_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n compeare_v not_o in_o the_o assembly_n for_o any_o personal_a or_o real_a action_n of_o their_o own_o alone_a or_o of_o particular_a concernment_n if_o he_o compear_v under_o the_o second_o notion_n the_o major_n be_v false_a unless_o you_o have_v sufficient_a cause_n to_o forsake_v he_o for_o judge_n 2._o item_n if_o it_o be_v a_o party_n that_o have_v no_o power_n over_o the_o party_n in_o such_o a_o cause_n the_o major_n be_v true_a but_o the_o minor_a be_v false_a for_o the_o assembly_n in_o matter_n of_o discipline_n have_v power_n over_o all_o the_o independent_o in_o england_n viz._n to_o condemn_v their_o tenet_n according_a to_o god_n word_n if_o it_o be_v a_o party_n that_o have_v power_n over_o the_o party_n in_o such_o a_o cause_n as_o a_o judge_n the_o major_n be_v false_a and_o so_o it_o be_v reason_v and_o this_o your_o tenet_n judge_v and_o condemn_v in_o the_o arminian_o as_o i_o hope_v it_o shall_v be_v in_o this_o arminian_n and_o the_o independent_o in_o this_o assembly_n 3._o it_o be_v false_a that_o party_n be_v equal_n when_o the_o one_o have_v power_n over_o another_o or_o when_o the_o one_o that_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v party_n judge_v not_o in_o a_o matter_n concern_v himself_o but_o the_o public_a 4._o for_o if_o that_o shall_v hold_v the_o party_n of_o the_o independent_a church_n may_v reject_v the_o judgement_n of_o whole_a church_n yea_o of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n pretend_v they_o to_o be_v party_n 5._o yea_o for_o the_o same_o reason_n they_o may_v reject_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o parliament_n 6._o this_o argument_n prove_v not_o the_o question_n viz._n that_o the_o parliament_n have_v a_o intrinsical_n directive_n power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n or_o a_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o judge_v in_o matter_n of_o religion_n 7._o it_o be_v a_o very_a proud_a and_o independent_a expression_n of_o you_o when_o you_o say_v that_o the_o synod_n and_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o christian_a world_n be_v but_o the_o apologist_n equal_v you_o will_v find_v they_o i_o hope_v in_o god_n their_o judge_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v put_v in_o authority_n by_o the_o parliament_n to_o represent_v the_o whole_a church_n of_o england_n which_o be_v more_o than_o such_o a_o inconsiderable_a number_n of_o independent_o m._n s._n ob._n 17._o p._n 37._o §_o 2._o if_o all_o church_n be_v equal_a as_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v or_o for_o any_o thing_n a.s._n allege_v to_o the_o contrary_a they_o be_v there_o can_v be_v neither_o superior_n nor_o inferior_n and_o consequent_o no_o obedience_n or_o disobedience_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a a._n s._n ans_fw-fr 1._o this_o prove_v not_o that_o the_o parliament_n have_v any_o intrinsical_a power_n in_o the_o church_n much_o less_o any_o directive_n intrinsical_v power_n 2._o only_o it_o pretend_v to_o prove_v a_o independent_a power_n in_o the_o church_n which_o take_v away_o their_o directive_n power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o the_o parliament_n for_o if_o their_o church_n depend_v not_o of_o any_o superior_a how_o can_v they_o depend_v upon_o the_o parliament_n or_o any_o other_o civil_a magistrate_n i_o deny_v the_o assumption_n viz._n that_o all_o church_n be_v equal_a but_o he_o prove_v it_o because_o they_o be_v such_o for_o aught_o he_o know_v or_o that_o a._n s._n allege_v to_o the_o contrary_n answ_n 1._o this_o be_v but_o to_o confess_v your_o ignorance_n 2._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o it_o may_v be_v otherwise_o howbeit_o he_o be_v ignorant_a of_o it_o 3._o neither_o be_v his_o knowledge_n the_o measure_n of_o divine_a or_o natural_a verity_n but_o to_o be_v measure_v by_o they_o 4._o howbeit_o a._n s._n shall_v say_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a yet_o the_o contrary_n may_v be_v for_o a._n s._n have_v not_o say_v all_o thing_n that_o may_v be_v say_v upon_o this_o or_o any_o other_o subject_n and_o there_o be_v thousand_o who_o can_v say_v more_o and_o better_a than_o he_o yea_o many_o have_v say_v more_o and_o better_a 5._o it_o be_v a_o untruth_n also_o that_o he_o have_v say_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a for_o he_o may_v have_v see_v something_o to_o the_o contrary_a in_o his_o observation_n and_o in_o his_o answer_n to_o a_o libel_n and_o if_o that_o be_v not_o enough_o he_o have_v more_o in_o this_o book_n 6._o when_o he_o say_v that_o a._n s._n argue_v so_o it_o be_v a_o untruth_n for_o neither_o have_v a._n s._n the_o assumption_n nor_o the_o conclusion_n in_o the_o 38._o page_n of_o his_o observation_n cite_v by_o he_o for_o he_o destroy_v the_o consequent_a to_o destroy_v the_o antecedent_n whereas_o m._n s._n pose_v the_o antecedent_n to_o infer_v the_o consequent_a m._n s._n ob._n 18._o if_o justice_n consist_v not_o in_o a_o arithmetical_a but_o geometrical_a proportion_n then_o be_v there_o no_o reason_n that_o peremptoriousnesse_n of_o vote_n how_o arithmetical_o soever_o privilege_v but_o weight_n and_o worth_n of_o argument_n shall_v carry_v it_o against_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o also_o a._n s._n answ_o this_o argument_n with_o its_o peremptorious_a censure_n of_o a_o pretend_a peremptoriousnesse_n of_o vote_n arithmetical_o privilege_v seem_v to_o censure_v the_o parliament_n which_o ordain_v that_o that_o shall_v be_v offer_v unto_o they_o as_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o assembly_n which_o the_o major_a part_n assent_v unto_o i_o e._n that_o that_o be_v judge_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n 2._o if_o by_o peremptoriousnesse_n of_o vote_n he_o mean_v plurality_n of_o vote_n i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n or_o connexion_n for_o when_o thing_n be_v full_o balance_v by_o reason_n in_o any_o assembly_n it_o be_v more_o probable_a that_o that_o be_v most_o true_a that_o be_v carry_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n and_o that_o geometrical_a proportion_n wherein_o consist_v distributive_a justice_n may_v be_v more_o easy_o find_v out_o by_o plurarity_n of_o vote_n then_o by_o few_o vote_n otherwise_o it_o be_v a_o folly_n to_o vote_n any_o thing_n for_o wherefore_o vote_v they_o any_o thing_n in_o any_o assembly_n but_o that_o it_o may_v be_v judge_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n 3._o and_o the_o apostle_n will_v that_o the_o spirit_n of_o prophet_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o prophet_n neither_o be_v it_o credible_a that_o the_o major_a part_n will_v submit_v unto_o the_o lesser_a part_n 4._o and_o we_o will_v willing_o know_v of_o you_o sir_n how_o thing_n be_v ordinary_o carry_v in_o your_o assembly_n whether_o thing_n be_v debate_v and_o every_o man_n reason_n hear_v the_o major_a part_n submit_v to_o the_o lesser_a or_o the_o lesser_a to_o the_o major_a or_o whether_o that_o be_v think_v truth_n that_o the_o major_a or_o minor_a part_n vote_v 5._o if_o by_o peremptoriousnesse_n of_o vote_n you_o mean_v a_o bold_a and_o imperious_a carry_v of_o thing_n by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n without_o reason_n i_o shall_v ready_o grant_v you_o such_o assembly_n be_v unlawful_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o such_o establish_a among_o we_o neither_o have_v the_o parliament_n establish_v any_o such_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n here_o neither_o do_v the_o assembly_n arrogate_v unto_o itself_o any_o such_o unjust_a power_n if_o this_o argument_n hold_v it_o shall_v beat_v down_o as_o well_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o parliament_n and_o all_o civil_a judicatories_n wherein_o thing_n be_v carry_v by_o plurality_n of_o vote_n as_o those_o of_o the_o assembly_n wherefore_o all_o the_o civil_a power_n in_o the_o world_n will_v do_v well_o to_o take_v notice_n of_o this_o peremptorious_a censure_n of_o they_o all_o for_o if_o it_o stand_v they_o must_v fall_v and_o do_v homage_n to_o the_o independent_a church_n beside_o this_o i_o know_v not_o what_o he_o mean_v by_o arithmetical_o
subjection_n unto_o their_o order_n for_o compulsion_n be_v a_o principio_fw-la externo_fw-la contra_fw-la inclinationem_fw-la agentis_fw-la it_o proceed_v from_o a_o externall_n principle_n against_o the_o natural_a inclination_n of_o the_o agent_n viz._n that_o be_v compel_v to_o produce_v the_o action_n and_o so_o be_v exercise_v only_o against_o the_o body_n over_o which_o the_o church_n take_v no_o authority_n but_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n alone_o 2._o neither_o say_v i_o to_o my_o knowledge_n any_o such_o thing_n 3._o neither_o cite_v you_o the_o place_n 4._o only_o i_o remember_v that_o in_o my_o observation_n and_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apology_n p._n 39_o §_o 4_o i_o say_v that_o the_o combine_a eldership_n have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n all_o man_n and_o church_n thereof_o be_v bind_v by_o law_n and_o covenant_n to_o submit_v themselves_o thereunto_o viz._n in_o a_o spiritual_a manner_n since_o the_o power_n be_v spiritual_a never_o a_o word_n here_o of_o compulsion_n or_o violence_n our_o church_n neither_o compel_v man_n body_n nor_o have_v they_o any_o prison_n or_o any_o pecuniary_a mulct_n but_o if_o any_o man_n will_v trouble_v the_o church_n and_o be_v disobedient_a it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o the_o christian_a civil_a magistrate_n to_o use_v his_o power_n to_o hinder_v such_o a_o disorder_n if_o we_o have_v not_o a_o christian_a and_o a_o orthodox_n magistrate_n in_o some_o place_n as_o in_o france_n and_o in_o some_o part_n of_o germany_n or_o if_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n will_v not_o do_v his_o duty_n he_o who_o will_v not_o submit_v unto_o our_o church-government_n be_v cast_v out_o and_o punish_v spiritual_o by_o simple_a censure_n suspension_n or_o excommunication_n according_a to_o the_o quality_n of_o his_o sin_n 5._o learn_v also_o i_o pray_v you_o m.s._n that_o it_o be_v not_o fallibility_n but_o actual_a fail_n or_o ignorance_n that_o may_v excuse_v he_o who_o be_v subject_a unto_o any_o government_n or_o authority_n from_o obedience_n nor_o yet_o all_o fail_v in_o judgement_n or_o error_n but_o only_o that_o which_o be_v antecedent_n to_o all_o the_o act_n of_o our_o will_n which_o moral_o we_o can_v shun_v and_o be_v invincible_a 6._o neither_o be_v it_o evermore_o expedient_a that_o subject_n know_v certain_o whether_o their_o governors_n judge_n or_o do_v right_a in_o what_o they_o do_v for_o subject_n in_o some_o case_n must_v obey_v in_o virtue_n of_o a_o probable_a knowledge_n or_o conjecture_v that_o their_o governor_n command_v just_o and_o especial_o when_o they_o be_v not_o compel_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o that_o which_o they_o believe_v to_o be_v unlawful_a for_o they_o to_o do_v for_o i_o put_v the_o case_n that_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n take_v a_o resolution_n to_o make_v war_n against_o any_o foreign_a prince_n and_o press_v some_o man_n to_o serve_v in_o such_o a_o war_n it_o be_v not_o for_o every_o press_a man_n to_o call_v the_o king_n and_o parliament_n to_o a_o account_n about_o the_o equity_n of_o the_o war_n neither_o be_v they_o bind_v to_o discover_v to_o every_o soldier_n all_o the_o secret_n and_o particularity_n of_o state_n thereupon_o m.s._n ob._n 28._o why_o be_v you_o not_o satisfy_v with_o that_o subjection_n to_o your_o presbyterial_a decision_n that_o plead_v no_o exemption_n but_o only_o in_o case_n of_o non-satisfaction_n about_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o truth_n of_o they_o a.s._n ans_fw-fr 1._o we_o be_v content_a with_o it_o 2._o and_o in_o case_n of_o non-satisfaction_n our_o church_n give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n 3._o but_o if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v satisfy_v when_o many_o thousand_o be_v satisfy_v we_o maintain_v that_o it_o be_v not_o equitable_a that_o when_o 20000._o or_o 30000._o be_v satisfy_v two_o or_o three_o under_o pretext_n of_o non-satisfaction_n or_o twenty_o or_o thirty_o pertinacious_a fellow_n shall_v have_v liberty_n to_o trouble_v all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o the_o world_n 4._o we_o say_v moreover_o that_o the_o church_n in_o dispute_v and_o confer_v with_o they_o and_o afterward_o in_o judge_v that_o she_o have_v give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n have_v give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n moral_o and_o that_o wise_a man_n shall_v judge_v it_o sufficient_a in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la and_o thereupon_o that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v condemn_v by_o the_o church_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la for_o there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n to_o proceed_v to_o sentence_n either_o in_o foro_fw-la civili_fw-la or_o ecclesiastico_fw-la 5._o if_o this_o will_v not_o satisfy_v they_o yet_o if_o they_o will_v be_v quiet_a and_o not_o trouble_v the_o church_n of_o god_n with_o their_o conventicle_n we_o can_v in_o christian_a charity_n tolerate_v they_o in_o their_o weakness_n yea_o in_o their_o malice_n if_o there_o be_v any_o till_o god_n impart_v unto_o they_o more_o grace_n but_o this_o serve_v nothing_o for_o independent_o who_o be_v come_v over_o the_o sea_n to_o beg_v a_o quarrel_n of_o we_o and_o to_o erect_v church_n in_o despite_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n against_o all_o law_n yea_o against_o their_o own_o tenet_n if_o they_o write_v as_o they_o believe_v for_o they_o pretend_v that_o church_n can_v be_v erect_v without_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n consent_v 6._o if_o all_o this_o content_v they_o not_o and_o their_o conscience_n will_v not_o permit_v they_o to_o do_v otherwise_o the_o port_n be_v free_a for_o they_o they_o may_v be_v go_v and_o live_v in_o all_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n in_o new_a england_n and_o trouble_v no_o more_o the_o country_n here_o than_o the_o country_n shall_v trouble_v they_o there_o 7._o or_o if_o this_o will_v not_o content_v they_o wherefore_o will_v they_o have_v more_o liberty_n here_o than_o they_o will_v grant_v we_o in_o new-england_n m.s._n ob._n 29._o if_o party_n may_v have_v cause_n to_o be_v offend_v with_o the_o church_n then_o have_v they_o power_n to_o judge_v of_o their_o action_n as_o well_o as_o they_o of_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o also_o a.s._n i_o distinguish_v the_o consequent_a of_o the_o proposition_n they_o may_v judge_v by_o a_o public_a judgement_n it_o be_v false_a for_o every_o particular_a or_o private_a man_n have_v not_o a_o public_a power_n to_o judge_v nor_o consequent_o a_o public_a judgement_n they_o may_v judge_v by_o a_o private_a power_n which_o proper_o be_v not_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d potestas_fw-la authoritas_fw-la or_o authoritative_a power_n or_o judgement_n but_o a_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n so_o it_o be_v true_a but_o such_o a_o judgement_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o exempt_v he_o from_o obedience_n i_o mean_v not_o a_o active_a but_o a_o passive_a or_o rather_o a_o permissive_a obedience_n for_o howsoever_o his_o erroneous_a judgement_n may_v excuse_v and_o dispense_v he_o from_o a_o act_n wherein_o he_o be_v actor_n against_o his_o conscience_n yet_o can_v it_o not_o excuse_v he_o from_o suffer_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n for_o if_o he_o will_v not_o do_v what_o they_o will_v according_a to_o god_n word_n they_o may_v do_v and_o he_o must_v suffer_v and_o permit_v they_o to_o do_v what_o he_o will_v not_o and_o what_o they_o will_v according_a to_o god_n word_n whereof_o he_o have_v no_o public_a power_n to_o judge_v he_o must_v no_o way_n oppose_v actiuè_fw-fr the_o public_a judgement_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n since_o he_o have_v no_o public_a power_n he_o must_v not_o set_v up_o a_o new_a church_n but_o deal_v with_o the_o church_n according_a to_o his_o vocation_n and_o if_o he_o can_v prevail_v in_o confer_v with_o the_o church_n he_o may_v appeal_v from_o a_o parish_n presbytery_n to_o a_o class_n if_o there_o he_o be_v likewise_o oppress_v he_o may_v appeal_v to_o a_o provincial_n synod_n if_o there_o again_o he_o be_v wrong_v by_o their_o judgement_n he_o may_v appeal_v unto_o a_o nationall_n synod_n if_o there_o he_o be_v oppress_v which_o probable_o will_v not_o ordinary_o fall_v out_o in_o all_o these_o judicatories_n rather_o than_o in_o first_o and_o last_o instance_n in_o a_o independent_a church_n compound_v peradventure_o of_o seven_o or_o eight_o idle_a fellow_n or_o pretend_v to_o be_v offend_v he_o must_v sit_v down_o patient_o and_o if_o he_o have_v any_o scruple_n of_o conscience_n he_o may_v consult_v foreign_a divine_n and_o if_o those_o satisfy_v he_o not_o in_o this_o singularity_n of_o his_o opinion_n i_o then_o propound_v my_o question_n whether_o it_o be_v more_o equitable_a that_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n submit_v to_o this_o particular_a man_n opinion_n or_o he_o to_o they_o object_n but_o what_o if_o they_o err_v all_o and_o he_o be_v right_a answ_n when_o god_n have_v not_o give_v you_o any_o ordinary_a remedy_n you_o must_v have_v patience_n there_o must_v be_v offence_n yea_o heresy_n but_o woe_n unto_o he_o that_o be_v the_o cause_n
deut._n 4_o 5_o 6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10.13_o 14_o 20.23.33_o 34.37_o deut._n 7.6_o 7_o 8_o 9_o 10._o deut._n 10.12.15.21_o deut._n 26.17_o 18_o 19_o deut._n 28.9_o 10._o deut._n 29.13_o 14_o 15._o and_o deut._n 32._o vers_fw-la 8_o 9_o etc._n etc._n when_o the_o most_o high_o divide_v to_o the_o nation_n their_o inheritance_n when_o he_o separate_v the_o son_n of_o adam_n jacob_n be_v the_o lot_n of_o his_o inheritance_n etc._n etc._n amos_n 3.2_o you_o only_o have_v i_o know_v of_o all_o the_o family_n of_o the_o earth_n deut._n 39.29_o happy_a be_v thou_o o_o israel_n who_o be_v like_a unto_o thou_o o_o people_n save_v by_o the_o lord_n the_o shield_n of_o thy_o help_n and_o who_o be_v the_o sword_n of_o thy_o encellency_n 2._o because_o independent_o define_v a_o congregationall_a church_n a_o number_n of_o man_n covenant_v together_o to_o participate_v of_o god_n ordinance_n viz._n the_o hear_n of_o the_o word_n the_o receive_n of_o the_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n in_o some_o one_o place_n every_o sabbath_n day_n but_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n can_v not_o meet_v in_o one_o place_n in_o such_o a_o fashion_n as_o every_o man_n will_v easy_o grant_v ergo_fw-la 3._o because_o the_o great_a sanedrim_n at_o jerusalem_n judge_v of_o all_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n throughout_o all_o the_o kingdom_n 4._o because_o the_o people_n of_o god_n beside_o their_o assembly_n in_o the_o temple_n which_o be_v a_o holy_a place_n common_a to_o all_o their_o nationall_n church_n have_v their_o particular_a convention_n in_o particular_a synagogue_n and_o however_o man_n may_v doubt_v of_o these_o synagogue_n whether_o they_o be_v exinstituto_fw-la divino_fw-la or_o not_o and_o of_o the_o time_n when_o first_o they_o begin_v yet_o can_v it_o not_o be_v deny_v but_o if_o they_o be_v not_o divinae_fw-la institutionis_fw-la they_o be_v at_o least_o divinae_fw-la approbationis_fw-la 1._o for_o they_o be_v not_o where_o condemn_v in_o scripture_n 2._o but_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n approve_v they_o in_o that_o they_o go_v ordinary_o to_o they_o dispute_v and_o expound_v scripture_n in_o they_o 3._o and_o submit_v themselves_o unto_o the_o order_n and_o discipline_n establish_v therein_o answ_n but_o the_o independent_o will_v say_v that_o the_o nationall_n church_n be_v abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a testament_n just_a 1._o then_o it_o be_v their_o part_n to_o point_v we_o to_o the_o place_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n where_o it_o be_v abrogate_a 2._o it_o can_v be_v abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o those_o ordinance_n only_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a that_o belong_v unto_o the_o ceremonial_a law_n but_o to_o have_v a_o church_n or_o a_o church_n government_n more_o than_o congregationall_a per_fw-la se_fw-la or_o consider_v in_o itself_o belong_v not_o to_o the_o ceremonial_a law_n ergo_fw-la the_o major_n be_v certain_a i_o prove_v the_o minor_n 1._o for_o it_o may_v have_v be_v even_o in_o the_o state_n of_o integrity_n without_o the_o ceremonial_a law_n 2._o and_o so_o indeed_o it_o be_v after_o the_o fall_n before_o ever_o moses_n his_o ceremonial_a law_n be_v make_v 3._o and_o that_o be_v not_o mere_o ceremonial_a whereof_o we_o may_v evident_o give_v natural_a reason_n or_o that_o which_o be_v evident_o ground_v in_o natural_a reason_n or_o at_o least_o in_o so_o far_o as_o evident_o ground_v in_o natural_a reason_n since_o it_o be_v mere_o positive_a but_o suppose_v that_o there_o be_v a_o church_n of_o god_n to_o have_v a_o church_n or_o a_o church_n government_n more_o than_o congregationall_a and_o independent_a be_v evident_o ground_v in_o natural_a reason_n or_o a_o thing_n where_o evident_o we_o may_v give_v natural_a reason_n etc._n etc._n as_o we_o shall_v see_v hereafter_o ergo_fw-la 3._o only_o those_o thing_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v abrogate_a by_o the_o new_a which_o be_v shadow_n of_o thing_n to_o come_v viz._n of_o christ_n real_a or_o mistycall_a but_o such_o a_o church_n i._n e._n more_o than_o a_o congregationall_a independent_a church_n be_v not_o a_o shadow_n of_o thing_n to_o come_v in_o christ_n etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la the_o major_n be_v certain_a for_o the_o thing_n command_v or_o approve_v in_o the_o old_a testament_n belong_v either_o to_o the_o moral_a or_o to_o the_o ceremonial_a or_o to_o the_o judicial_a law_n as_o for_o the_o thing_n of_o the_o first_o sort_n they_o be_v juris_fw-la naturalis_fw-la and_o consequent_o perpetual_a which_o be_v not_o abrogate_a and_o of_o themselves_o be_v not_o shadow_n of_o thing_n to_o come_v as_o for_o those_o of_o the_o judicial_a law_n of_o themselves_o they_o be_v not_o shadow_n but_o belong_v unto_o civil_a government_n which_o christ_n abrogate_a not_o since_o his_o kingdom_n be_v not_o of_o this_o world_n and_o if_o the_o jew_n have_v submit_v themselves_o to_o christ_n and_o have_v be_v free_v from_o external_a oppression_n it_o be_v probable_a that_o they_o shall_v have_v enjoy_v their_o own_o government_n according_a to_o the_o judicial_a law_n so_o far_o forth_o as_o judicial_a neither_o be_v it_o his_o aim_n to_o overthrow_v any_o worldly_a state_n policy_n or_o political_a law_n christ_n kingdom_n be_v and_o be_v compatible_a with_o all_o the_o kingdom_n and_o state_n of_o the_o world_n if_o they_o will_v not_o destroy_v it_o and_o he_o will_v let_v they_o reign_v over_o man_n body_n and_o purse_n if_o they_o can_v let_v he_o reign_v over_o their_o soul_n these_o that_o be_v command_v in_o the_o ceremonial_a law_n be_v indeed_o shadow_n but_o such_o be_v not_o a_o church_n more_o than_o congregationall_a to_o all_o these_o reason_n some_o have_v answer_v that_o they_o will_v have_v it_o prove_v by_o scripture_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n just_a 1._o but_o wherefore_o prove_v they_o their_o opinion_n by_o the_o old_a testament_n if_o they_o will_v not_o permit_v we_o the_o same_o liberty_n 2._o our_o former_a reason_n have_v sufficient_o prove_v that_o proof_n take_v from_o the_o old_a testament_n shall_v hold_v in_o all_o that_o which_o be_v not_o abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a 3._o if_o in_o this_o subject_a they_o reject_v the_o scripture_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o the_o jew_n in_o all_o thing_n that_o of_o the_o new_a there_o will_v be_v two_o error_n diametrical_o opposite_a the_o one_o to_o the_o other_o they_o and_o the_o jew_n but_o to_o give_v they_o more_o contentment_n we_o will_v prove_v it_o likewise_o by_o text_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o first_o from_o that_o of_o the_o act_n chapter_n 1_o 2_o 4_o and_o 5._o 2._o a_o church_n compound_v of_o 8120._o be_v more_o than_o a_o parishional_a or_o congregationall_a independent_a church_n but_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n act_v 1.15_o act_n 2.41_o act_n 4.4_o be_v a_o church_n compound_v of_o 8120._o yea_o of_o more_o as_o appeareth_z by_o act_n 5.14_o 26._o ergo_fw-la the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n be_v more_o sure_a then_o a_o parishional_a or_o congregationall_a independent_a church_n the_o major_a proposition_n be_v certain_a for_o the_o independent_o define_v their_o church_n which_o christ_n in_o his_o gospel_n have_v institute_v and_o to_o which_o he_o have_v commit_v the_o key_n of_o his_o kingdom_n the_o power_n of_o bind_v and_o lose_v the_o table_n and_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n the_o officer_n and_o censure_n of_o his_o church_n the_o administration_n of_o his_o public_a worship_n and_o ordinance_n caetus_fw-la a_o company_n of_o believer_n meet_v in_o one_o place_n every_o lord_n day_n for_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o holy_a ordinance_n of_o god_n to_o public_a edification_n the_o way_n of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n in_o new_a england_n the_o due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n chap._n 1._o prop._n 1._o from_o hence_o i_o argue_v thus_o the_o church_n whereunto_o can_v be_v apply_v this_o definition_n because_o of_o its_o multitude_n be_v more_o than_o a_o independent_a congregationall_a church_n but_o a_o church_n compound_v of_o 8120_o be_v a_o church_n whereunto_o can_v be_v apply_v this_o definition_n etc._n etc._n ergo._n the_o major_n be_v certain_a the_o minor_a i_o prove_v it_o for_o 8120._o can_v not_o meet_v together_o every_o lord_n day_n in_o one_o house_n etc._n etc._n for_o in_o those_o time_n christian_n have_v not_o yet_o any_o temple_n but_o gather_v together_o in_o particular_a house_n which_o can_v not_o receive_v they_o all_o 1._o because_o they_o be_v not_o ordinary_o spacious_a as_o great_a and_o rich_a man_n house_n for_o as_o the_o apostle_n say_v there_o be_v not_o many_o wise_a man_n after_o the_o flesh_n nor_o many_o mighty_a nor_o many_o noble_a call_v but_o the_o foolish_a weak_a base_a and_o despise_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n 1_o cor._n 1.26_o 27_o 28._o 2._o howbeit_o they_o have_v be_v spacious_a as_o rich_a man_n house_n yet_o can_v they_o not_o have_v receive_v such_o
reject_v it_o than_o the_o judgement_n at_o antioch_n which_o they_o do_v not_o but_o acquiesce_v therein_o for_o any_o thing_n we_o know_v to_o the_o contrary_n 6._o some_o may_v peradventure_o prove_v it_o in_o this_o manner_n that_o if_o it_o have_v not_o be_v a_o synod_n and_o a_o superior_a judicatory_a in_o respect_n of_o antioch_n those_o of_o antioch_n have_v not_o send_v the_o two_o party_n but_o have_v do_v better_a to_o have_v send_v some_o indifferent_a person_n for_o indifferent_a person_n be_v more_o proper_a to_o consult_v a_o business_n than_o the_o party_n 7._o if_o it_o have_v be_v judge_v at_o jerusalem_n by_o way_n of_o counsel_n only_o this_o counsel_n have_v likely_o be_v only_o give_v to_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n for_o counsel_n ordinary_o be_v only_o give_v to_o those_o who_o desire_n and_o crave_v it_o but_o so_o it_o be_v not_o here_o for_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n not_o only_o judge_v so_o concern_v the_o church_n of_o antioch_n alone_o but_o also_o of_o all_o other_o and_o the_o apostle_n and_o their_o disciple_n urge_v this_o judgement_n upon_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n where_o they_o pass_v some_o new-england_n preacher_n answer_v that_o this_o assembly_n at_o jerusalem_n clear_v up_o the_o truth_n dogmatical_o for_o the_o word_n translate_v decree_n be_v in_o the_o original_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d act._n 16.4_o but_o import_v not_o to_o censure_n item_n that_o they_o can_v see_v why_o the_o ultimate_a power_n of_o censure_n may_v not_o reside_v in_o the_o congregation_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o synod_n provincial_n nationall_n or_o ecumenical_a a.s._n answ_n this_o can_v hold_v 1._o for_o whoever_o have_v a_o dogmatic_a power_n they_o have_v also_o a_o power_n to_o censure_n for_o he_o who_o may_v judge_v that_o this_o must_v be_v believe_v and_o according_a to_o god_n word_n merit_v such_o a_o ecclesiastical_a or_o spiritual_a punishment_n wherefore_o may_v he_o not_o also_o sentence_v the_o delinquent_n who_o merit_n to_o be_v so_o censure_v 2._o because_o in_o give_v a_o dogmatic_a power_n to_o some_o and_o a_o corrective_a power_n unto_o other_o they_o divide_v the_o key_n and_o give_v one_o unto_o one_o assembly_n and_o another_o unto_o another_o and_o so_o make_v one_o assembly_n see_v with_o the_o other_o eye_n 3._o these_o power_n be_v not_o separate_v in_o the_o church_n or_o church-assembly_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n ergo_fw-la no_o more_o shall_v they_o be_v separate_v in_o the_o new_a since_o the_o union_n of_o these_o two_o power_n proceed_v not_o from_o any_o ceremonial_a law_n but_o either_o from_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n or_o the_o political_a ecclesiastical_a law_n in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o ground_v on_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n 4._o because_o such_o a_o way_n be_v as_o m.s._n speak_v to_o make_v the_o one_o judex_n and_o the_o other_o carnisex_n the_o one_o to_o be_v the_o judge_n and_o the_o other_o the_o executioner_n 5._o because_o in_o all_o state_n and_o civil_a government_n judge_n or_o senate_n who_o have_v the_o dogmatic_a power_n have_v also_o the_o corrective_a or_o coercive_a power_n and_o there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n for_o both_o 6._o the_o text_n contain_v no_o such_o thing_n neither_o can_v they_o show_v we_o in_o any_o part_n of_o scripture_n any_o ground_n for_o any_o such_o division_n of_o these_o two_o power_n neither_o can_v that_o silly_a grammatical_a observation_n of_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d serve_v they_o for_o the_o apostle_n serve_v not_o himself_o of_o this_o word_n in_o the_o whole_a latitude_n of_o all_o its_o grammatical_a signification_n that_o it_o may_v have_v according_a to_o its_o etymology_n and_o derivation_n but_o in_o a_o legal_a way_n as_o it_o be_v take_v in_o law_n for_o placitum_fw-la statutum_n institutum_fw-la decretum_fw-la edictum_fw-la as_o in_o the_o civil_a law_n wherein_o these_o word_n signify_v law_n or_o ordinance_n and_o calvin_n tell_v we_o in_o lexico_fw-la juridico_fw-la that_o dogma_fw-la est_fw-la lex_fw-la docens_fw-la scientiam_fw-la fidei_fw-la l._n 2._o f._n f._n ad_fw-la senatus-con_a vellejan_n decretum_fw-la &_o senatus-consultum_fw-la significat_fw-la pro_fw-la quo_fw-la modestinus_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d f._n f._n de_fw-fr excus_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d dixit_fw-la now_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v nothing_o else_o but_o decretum_fw-la scitum_fw-la plebiscitum_fw-la the_o cause_n wherefore_o the_o apostle_n take_v it_o in_o a_o court_n or_o law-signification_n be_v because_o that_o they_o be_v make_v ecclesiastical_a law_n and_o so_o take_v it_o ratione_fw-la subjectae_fw-la materiae_fw-la 7._o and_o this_o may_v be_v confirm_v because_o they_o be_v not_o only_o call_v dogmata_fw-la but_o it_o be_v add_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o text_n i._n e._n quae_fw-la decreta_fw-la fuerunt_fw-la ab_fw-la apostolis_n that_o be_v decree_v by_o the_o apostle_n 8._o and_o what_o else_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d but_o to_o dogmatise_v or_o to_o bring_v in_o a_o new_a opinion_n custom_n or_o ceremony_n col._n 2.20_o which_o here_o be_v not_o do_v by_o any_o private_a man_n but_o by_o authority_n of_o a_o council_n 9_o neither_o can_v the_o author_n of_o this_o evasion_n ever_o show_v we_o that_o dogma_fw-la in_o law_n be_v take_v for_o a_o power_n mere_o dogmatic_a separate_v from_o all_o coercive_a or_o corrective_a power_n and_o moreover_o if_o this_o will_v not_o satisfy_v they_o we_o have_v act._n 15._o v._n 24._o to_o who_o we_o command_v no_o such_o thing_n ergo_fw-la those_o of_o antioch_n suppose_v that_o that_o council_n at_o jerusalem_n have_v power_n to_o command_v and_o the_o council_n deni_v not_o that_o they_o have_v power_n to_o command_v but_o the_o act_n of_o the_o power_n viz._n that_o they_o have_v command_v any_o such_o thing_n v._n 28._o it_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o to_o we_o to_o lay_v upon_o you_o no_o great_a burden_n than_o these_o necessary_a thing_n ergo_fw-la they_o lay_v a_o burden_n but_o no_o great_a burden_n upon_o they_o 2._o it_o be_v lay_v upon_o they_o 3._o it_o be_v necessary_a necessitate_v praecepti_fw-la but_o they_o who_o have_v such_o a_o power_n have_v they_o not_o think_v we_o power_n also_o to_o censure_v 12._o beza_n tell_v we_o also_o that_o in_o his_o codex_fw-la in_o chap._n 15._o v._n 41._o this_o be_v add_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d as_o in_o some_o latin_a codex_fw-la praecipiens_fw-la custodire_fw-la praecepta_fw-la apostolorum_fw-la &_o seniorum_fw-la which_o argue_v that_o they_o have_v not_o only_o a_o directive_n but_o also_o a_o imperative_a power_n over_o the_o church_n in_o virtue_n of_o that_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n 13._o the_o dogmatic_a power_n be_v like_a unto_o the_o legislative_a power_n and_o whoever_o have_v a_o legislative_a power_n have_v also_o a_o corrective_a power_n 14._o this_o council_n have_v not_o only_o a_o dogmatic_a but_o also_o a_o legislative_a power_n about_o thing_n of_o themselves_o indifferent_a as_o appear_v here_o in_o make_v a_o law_n that_o the_o christian_n shall_v abstain_v from_o meat_n offer_v to_o idol_n and_o from_o blood_n and_o from_o thing_n strangle_v 4._o some_o it_o may_v be_v will_v find_v out_o this_o evasion_n and_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o council_n nor_o a_o ordinary_a decree_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judge_n but_o of_o arbiter_n rep._n but_o 1._o the_o text_n have_v no_o such_o thing_n 2._o arbiter_n be_v either_o give_v by_o the_o ordinary_a judge_n ordinary_o call_v judices_fw-la pedanei_fw-la or_o choose_v by_o the_o party_n themselves_o otherways_o call_v compromissarii_fw-la if_o you_o grant_v i_o the_o first_o then_o particular_a church_n be_v subject_a unto_o superior_a ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n that_o give_v they_o such_o arbiter_n which_o be_v all_o we_o look_v for_o if_o the_o second_o then_o if_o the_o word_n of_o god_n have_v grant_v a_o independent_a liberty_n unto_o the_o church_n she_o ought_v not_o to_o quit_v it_o in_o make_v herself_o subject_a and_o dependent_a for_o we_o can_v dispose_v of_o our_o own_o liberty_n grant_v to_o we_o by_o christ_n to_o make_v ourselves_o servant_n or_o subject_n to_o man_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n 3._o we_o can_v submit_v god_n cause_n to_o other_o then_o to_o who_o he_o have_v submit_v it_o himself_o how_o can_v they_o accept_v they_o for_o judge_n who_o have_v no_o vocation_n of_o god_n to_o judge_v they_o 5._o arbitrary_a judge_n that_o be_v give_v have_v a_o superior_a power_n over_o the_o church_n that_o they_o judge_v and_o so_o you_o acknowledge_v that_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n have_v power_n over_o that_o of_o antioch_n if_o that_o of_o jerusalem_n be_v a_o arbiter_n datus_fw-la aut_fw-la delegatus_fw-la 2._o these_o give_v arbiter_n be_v give_v by_o a_o judge_n or_o superior_a ergo_fw-la they_o presuppose_v some_o superior_a judge_n over_o the_o
state_n in_o such_o a_o case_n 2._o the_o minister_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n must_v proceed_v spiritual_o against_o all_o delinquent_n and_o impenitent_a person_n as_o the_o minister_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n do_v against_o they_o according_a to_o god_n word_n unless_o such_o a_o proceed_n by_o abrogate_a in_o the_o new_a testament_n 3._o they_o must_v do_v as_o m._n s._n have_v teach_v we_o as_o they_o do_v against_o particular_a person_n in_o commensurate_v the_o punishment_n to_o the_o sin_n i_o e._n they_o must_v proceed_v by_o particular_a admonition_n and_o censure_n against_o lesser_a sin_n in_o private_a or_o before_o the_o presbytery_n by_o suspension_n from_o the_o lord_n table_n against_o great_a sin_n by_o public_a suspension_n or_o lesser_a excommunication_n against_o great_a sin_n and_o by_o the_o great_a excommunication_n against_o the_o great_a sin_n 4._o m._n s._n confess_v that_o the_o apologist_n in_o their_o way_n do_v little_o less_o a._n s._n if_o so_o than_o they_o do_v a_o little_a worse_o than_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o so_o they_o quit_v a_o little_a m._n s._n his_o own_o rule_n whereby_o he_o will_v they_o to_o proceed_v as_o against_o particular_a person_n 5._o if_o all_o this_o suffice_v not_o it_o be_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n part_v to_o proceed_v against_o they_o as_o troubler_n of_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n and_o consequent_o of_o the_o christian_a state_n and_o not_o to_o permit_v they_o to_o erect_v a_o new_a sect_n as_o it_o be_v ordinary_o practise_v among_o the_o independent_o of_o new_a england_n 6._o they_o must_v be_v punish_v for_o their_o perjury_n and_o for_o the_o breach_n of_o their_o covenant_n but_o none_o of_o those_o punishment_n can_v be_v inflict_v but_o after_o sufficient_a conviction_n at_o least_o moral_o in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la and_o such_o punishment_n be_v the_o fit_a for_o they_o after_o such_o a_o conviction_n when_o they_o pertinacious_o resist_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n for_o such_o man_n fear_v more_o the_o gibbet_n than_o hell-fire_n what_o you_o say_v of_o your_o second_o chapter_n it_o be_v sufficient_o answer_v what_o you_o say_v of_o church_n that_o they_o have_v need_v to_o take_v heed_n how_o they_o choose_v man_n for_o their_o guardian_n etc._n etc._n if_o by_o those_o guardian_n you_o mean_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n it_o be_v not_o wise_o say_v of_o you_o if_o church-minister_n they_o must_v choose_v such_o as_o will_v delate_v pertinacious_a sinner_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n to_o your_o second_o question_n what_o if_o in_o the_o session_n etc._n etc._n answ_n 1._o what_o if_o it_o be_v so_o in_o your_o assembly_n or_o synod_n 2._o if_o it_o be_v any_o inferior_a ecclesiastical_a judicatory_a they_o must_v remit_v it_o to_o a_o superior_a ever_o till_o they_o come_v to_o some_o wherein_o the_o vote_n may_v preponderate_v and_o if_o in_o the_o supreme_a judicatory_a viz._n in_o a_o nationall_n assembly_n the_o vote_n preponderate_v not_o concern_v the_o excommunication_n of_o such_o a_o church_n which_o be_v very_o extraordinary_a she_o can_v be_v excommunicate_v and_o yet_o if_o her_o opinion_n or_o sin_n be_v condemn_v the_o combine_a eldership_n may_v inflict_v some_o lesser_a spiritual_a punishment_n and_o if_o such_o a_o church_n continue_v still_o pertinacious_a the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v proceed_v against_o she_o in_o a_o civil_a way_n as_o we_o have_v say_v neither_o be_v this_o a_o compliance_n with_o papist_n in_o quality_n of_o papist_n but_o in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o agree_v with_o scripture_n 1._o for_o so_o proceed_v the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n 2._o so_o proceed_v the_o church_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n in_o the_o time_n of_o good_a emperor_n as_o under_o constantine_n the_o great_a theodosius_n etc._n etc._n 3._o so_o proceed_v they_o at_o geneva_n 4._o so_o in_o the_o netherlands_o 5._o so_o the_o independent_o of_o new-england_n 6._o so_o shall_v m.s._n rather_o do_v then_o to_o tolerate_v open_a blasphemer_n of_o the_o bless_a name_n of_o god_n 7._o dare_v thou_o m._n s._n so_o open_o plead_v in_o favour_n of_o paganism_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o heresy_n and_o mischief_n and_o for_o all_o sort_n of_o impunity_n for_o they_o all_o 8._o the_o truth_n fall_v not_o to_o the_o dust_n in_o such_o a_o case_n but_o sin_n be_v punish_v but_o not_o in_o such_o a_o degree_n as_o it_o shall_v be_v to_o the_o second_o inconveniency_n that_o i_o object_n against_o the_o independent_o §_o 4._o viz._n that_o the_o independent_a church_n offend_v if_o they_o judge_v the_o offend_a church_n they_o shall_v be_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n m._n s._n repli_v p._n 80._o §_o 3._o when_o your_o combine_a eldership_n proceed_v against_o a_o particular_a church_n among_o you_o upon_o offence_n take_v be_v not_o this_o eldership_n as_o well_o party_n as_o judge_n a.s._n my_o argument_n impli_v the_o solution_n of_o this_o objection_n viz._n that_o the_o combine_a eldership_n can_v be_v party_n in_o such_o a_o cause_n because_o it_o have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n over_o the_o particular_a church_n howbeit_o spiritual_a and_o ministerial_a as_o the_o parliament_n over_o particular_a judicatories_n in_o the_o kingdom_n but_o party_n look_v one_o to_o another_o as_o par_fw-fr parem_fw-la and_o not_o as_o superior_a inferiorem_fw-la 2._o neither_o can_v any_o man_n or_o consociation_n take_v his_o ordinary_a judge_n to_o party_n unless_o he_o have_v some_o particular_a exception_n against_o he_o 3._o i_o propound_v you_o the_o same_o question_n concern_v the_o particular_a tribe_n and_o the_o synagogicall_a judicatories_n among_o the_o people_n of_o god_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n when_o the_o great_a sanedrim_n take_v offence_n at_o they_o or_o at_o their_o judgement_n whether_o the_o great_a sanedrim_n be_v not_o both_o judge_n and_o party_n or_o rather_o whether_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o offence_n take_v it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v consider_v as_o a_o party_n and_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o authoritative_a power_n as_o a_o judge_n 4._o i_o propound_v it_o of_o the_o state_n whether_o the_o parliament_n may_v not_o be_v consider_v as_o party_n be_v offend_v at_o any_o particular_a consociation_n and_o as_o judge_n in_o quality_n of_o the_o representative_a body_n of_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n or_o if_o it_o be_v evermore_o needful_a that_o some_o particular_a person_n or_o person_n compeare_v in_o quality_n of_o party_n against_o particular_a consociation_n or_o town_n 5._o in_o your_o particular_a congregation_n may_v not_o your_o church_n under_o divers_a notion_n be_v consider_v as_o judge_n and_o party_n or_o may_v every_o delinquent_n take_v your_o whole_a presbytery_n or_o congregation_n to_o party_n 6._o do_v not_o the_o arminian_o serve_v themselves_o of_o this_o independent_a argument_n against_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n to_o decline_v the_o synod_n power_n and_o be_v not_o both_o they_o and_o this_o their_o argument_n condemn_v by_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o synod_n as_o very_o absurd_a and_o unapt_a 7._o this_o argument_n conclude_v against_o all_o the_o superior_a power_n of_o this_o world_n again_o m.s._n 1._o tell_v we_o that_o this_o authoritative_a power_n of_o combine_a presbytery_n over_o congregation_n be_v not_o from_o above_o a._n s._n but_o we_o have_v prove_v it_o to_o be_v from_o above_o and_o from_o god_n as_o author_n of_o nature_n and_o of_o grace_n see_v the_o question_n concern_v the_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n 2._o core_n dathan_n and_o abiram_n object_v no_o less_o against_o moses_n and_o aaron_n yea_o as_o much_o may_v be_v object_v against_o god_n himself_o who_o be_v judge_n and_o party_n and_o jesus_n christ_n who_o be_v party_n and_o yet_o shall_v judge_v the_o quick_a and_o the_o dead_a for_o if_o criminal_n may_v so_o escape_v they_o will_v not_o fail_v to_o take_v their_o judge_n evermore_o for_o party_n m._n s._n to_o hold_v that_o all_o those_o that_o have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n over_o man_n may_v lawful_o in_o virtue_n of_o such_o a_o power_n be_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n be_v to_o exalt_v all_o manner_n of_o tyranny_n etc._n etc._n by_o law_n for_o so_o in_o church_n and_o state_n man_n invest_v with_o such_o a_o power_n may_v be_v their_o own_o carver_n and_o serve_v themselves_o of_o the_o estate_n liberty_n and_o life_n of_o those_o that_o be_v under_o they_o how_o and_o when_o and_o as_o oft_o as_o they_o listen_v add_v but_o the_o consequence_n be_v false_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o antecedent_n a.s._n i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o they_o have_v not_o a_o absolute_a but_o a_o limit_a power_n according_a to_o law_n and_o not_o to_o their_o own_o particular_a but_o public_a will_n or_o in_o quality_n of_o public_a person_n who_o will_n be_v declare_v in_o or_o restrain_v according_a to_o law_n neither_o command_v carolus_n the_o kingdom_n qua_fw-la carolus_n but_o
better_o their_o cause_n fave_v only_o that_o it_o be_v naught_o it_o be_v true_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o man_n of_o so_o great_a ability_n shall_v be_v able_a to_o say_v no_o more_o for_o themselves_o 8._o and_o since_o you_o m.s._n and_o they_o be_v so_o able_a will_v you_o or_o they_o i_o pray_v condescend_v to_o some_o private_a meeting_n with_o some_o of_o the_o presbyterian_o that_o it_o may_v be_v see_v who_o have_v the_o best_a cause_n and_o whether_o or_o no_o all_o your_o deep_a learning_n and_o great_a skill_n in_o sophistication_n wherein_o you_o so_o excel_v can_v set_v any_o probable_a show_n or_o face_n of_o reason_n upon_o your_o opinion_n which_o you_o hold_v to_o be_v no_o less_o than_o god_n reveal_v word_n m._n s._n answer_v 3._o better_o a_o door_n open_v to_o all_o sort_n of_o erroneous_a opinion_n yea_o and_o to_o many_o other_o inconvenience_n great_a than_o this_o then_o that_o the_o guilt_n of_o any_o persecution_n or_o of_o any_o evil_a entreat_n of_o the_o saint_n and_o people_n of_o god_n shall_v cleave_v unto_o the_o people_n or_o state_n a._n s._n this_o m._n s._n suppose_v 1._o that_o the_o independent_o be_v the_o saint_n 2._o and_o that_o in_o case_n they_o be_v not_o tolerate_v in_o establish_v public_o their_o church_n government_n and_o other_o tenet_n in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o parliament_n both_o in_o the_o church_n and_o state_n that_o it_o be_v no_o less_o than_o the_o guilt_n of_o persecution_n against_o the_o saint_n draw_v upon_o the_o state_n 3._o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o heresy_n of_o the_o world_n and_o worse_o shall_v creep_v into_o the_o church_n then_o that_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v but_o chastise_v in_o case_n they_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o either_o church_n or_o state_n i_o answer_v that_o all_o that_o m._n s._n here_o say_v be_v damnable_a untruth_n and_o that_o it_o be_v better_a that_o all_o the_o independent_o of_o this_o world_n be_v in_o america_n and_o that_o ten_o thousand_o time_n worse_o shall_v befall_v they_o then_o that_o the_o good_a name_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v dishonour_v by_o filthy_a heresy_n and_o if_o the_o independent_o have_v any_o fear_n of_o god_n before_o their_o eye_n and_o love_v not_o themselves_o better_a a_o great_a deal_n then_o god_n glory_n they_o will_v rather_o desire_v with_o moses_n to_o be_v scrape_v out_o of_o the_o book_n of_o life_n or_o with_o paul_n to_o be_v separate_v from_o christ_n then_o that_o christ_n church_n shall_v so_o suffer_v or_o god_n bless_a name_n be_v so_o dishonour_v a._n s._n 2._o reason_n it_o be_v dangerous_a for_o the_o state_n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n and_o division_n betwixt_o all_o person_n of_o whatsoever_o relation_n betwixt_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o subject_a the_o husband_n and_o the_o wife_n the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n brethren_n and_o sister_n the_o master_n and_o the_o servant_n when_o the_o one_o be_v of_o one_o religion_n or_o ecclesiastical_a government_n and_o the_o other_o of_o another_o as_o you_o yea_o to_o your_o no_o very_a great_a advantage_n have_v experiment_a it_o several_a time_n the_o son_n may_v refuse_v to_o receive_v any_o communion_n with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o brother_n with_o the_o brother_n to_o the_o utter_a dissolution_n of_o all_o natural_a civil_a and_o domestical_a bond_n of_o society_n and_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o may_v be_v because_o the_o one_o may_v excommunicate_v the_o other_o as_o daily_a experience_n testify_v m._n s._n the_o shadow_n of_o the_o mountain_n seem_v man_n unto_o you_o judg._n 9.36_o a._n s._n so_o say_v zebul_n the_o servant_n of_o abimelech_n the_o son_n of_o the_o concubine_n who_o by_o a_o conspiracy_n with_o the_o schichemite_n be_v make_v king_n and_o afterward_o murder_v his_o brethren_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v man_n viz._n wicked_a abimelech_n with_o his_o army_n and_o no_o shadow_n of_o mountain_n m._n s._n will_v have_v we_o live_v in_o security_n and_o will_v rather_o tolerate_v socinianism_n arminianism_n yea_o judaism_n and_o mahumetanism_n then_o that_o his_o own_o sect_n shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v of_o so_o large_a a_o conscience_n be_v he_o a.s._n it_o may_v breed_v faction_n etc._n etc._n m.s._n but_o a._n s._n his_o may_n may_v possible_o not_o come_v in_o a_o age_n no_o nor_o in_o many_o generation_n and_o will_v he_o have_v so_o many_o thousand_o of_o the_o dear_a people_n of_o god_n as_o do_v apologise_v to_o eat_v their_o bread_n in_o darkness_n and_o he_o say_v heretofore_o that_o may_v come_v but_o once_o a_o year_n a.s._n it_o be_v subtle_o argue_v m.s._n of_o you_o with_o your_o may_n but_o it_o be_v too_o much_o that_o such_o a_o may_v come_v once_o a_o year_n or_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o better_a be_v it_o ten_o thousand_o of_o you_o shall_v perish_v than_o god_n be_v so_o offend_v for_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n in_o divinity_n quodvis_fw-la malum_fw-la paenae_fw-la etiam_fw-la maximum_fw-la eligendum_fw-la potius_fw-la quà m_fw-la minimum_fw-la malum_fw-la culpae_fw-la nam_fw-la quaevis_fw-la culpa_fw-la pejor_fw-la quavis_fw-la poenâ_fw-la 2._o but_o i_o pray_v you_o learn_v of_o i_o that_o as_o impossibile_fw-it morale_fw-mi in_o moral_a matter_n such_o as_o this_o whereof_o we_o dispute_v be_v not_o that_o which_o never_o but_o which_o rare_o or_o hardly_o fall_v out_o so_o be_v possibile_fw-la morale_fw-la idem_fw-la quod_fw-la facilè_fw-la which_o easy_o and_o oftentimes_o fall_v out_o and_o not_o that_o fall_v out_o but_o once_o in_o a_o age_n and_o that_o it_o fall_v out_o so_o very_o oft_o we_o may_v prove_v it_o by_o the_o division_n in_o france_n the_o netherlands_o germany_n poland_n transilvania_n etc._n etc._n what_o i_o pray_v transport_v the_o crown_n of_o swede_n from_o the_o nephew_n to_o the_o uncle_n what_o move_v a_o king_n of_o spain_n to_o consent_v to_o his_o own_o son_n death_n what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o so_o great_a a_o war_n betwixt_o the_o turk_n and_o the_o persian_a and_o final_o what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o this_o our_o present_a war_n but_o the_o favour_v of_o popery_n the_o negotiation_n with_o rome_n our_o agent_n there_o father_n con_n and_o the_o pope_n nuncio_n here_o 2._o you_o be_v not_o so_o many_o thousand_o as_o you_o brag_v of_o save_v in_o london_n and_o a_o few_o mile_n about_o it_o your_o sect_n i_o think_v may_v easy_o be_v count_v by_o hundred_o and_o as_o for_o the_o remote_a part_n of_o the_o kingdom_n they_o be_v unknown_a creature_n to_o they_o 3._o if_o they_o be_v so_o dear_a to_o god_n they_o can_v never_o qua_fw-la tale_n suffer_v for_o so_o wicked_a a_o cause_n as_o for_o all_o licentiousness_n in_o religion_n 4._o they_o need_v not_o to_o suffer_v if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v turbulent_a but_o quiet_a and_o submit_v unto_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o such_o a_o ecclesiastical_a government_n as_o in_o god_n mercy_n shall_v be_v establish_v in_o the_o church_n what_o a_o sauciness_n be_v this_o that_o they_o will_v be_v content_a with_o nothing_o unless_o in_o despite_n of_o church_n and_o state_n they_o may_v do_v what_o they_o will_v 5._o as_o for_o his_o rhetorication_n in_o tell_v i_o that_o i_o be_o breed_v of_o rock_n and_o suck_v the_o milk_n of_o tiger_n all_o that_o shall_v not_o hinder_v i_o to_o maintain_v that_o the_o independent_o must_v be_v subject_a to_o order_n and_o authority_n both_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a as_o other_o man_n be_v or_o else_o suffer_v for_o their_o turbulent_a humour_n m._n s._n i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o whether_o he_o deem_v himself_o to_o be_v of_o another_o religion_n than_o the_o apologist_n if_o so_o candorem_fw-la tuum_fw-la a.s._n in_o that_o malignant_a expression_n etc._n etc._n a.s._n as_o for_o my_o religion_n you_o may_v know_v it_o m.s._n it_o be_v that_o which_o be_v declare_v in_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n england_n the_o netherlands_o france_n etc._n etc._n but_o as_o for_o you_o sed_fw-la vos_fw-la qui_fw-la tandem_fw-la quibus_fw-la aut_fw-la venistis_fw-la ab_fw-la eris_fw-la quouè_fw-la tenetis_fw-la iter_fw-la that_o i_o know_v not_o and_o consequent_o whether_o i_o be_v of_o your_o religion_n or_o not_o you_o will_v have_v no_o confession_n of_o faith_n or_o discipline_n but_o what_o you_o may_v change_v fidem_fw-la diariam_fw-la aut_fw-la ad_fw-la summum_fw-la menstruam_fw-la such_o as_o you_o may_v change_v with_o every_o moon_n but_o to_o come_v more_o near_o to_o the_o point_n i_o pray_v you_o set_v forth_o a_o confession_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o name_n of_o all_o the_o independent_a church_n and_o subscribe_v all_o of_o you_o that_o you_o will_v stand_v to_o it_o and_o then_o i_o will_v answer_v your_o question_n if_o you_o will_v not_o here_o i_o will_v give_v you_o the_o best_a satisfaction_n i_o can_v and_o it_o be_v this_o viz._n
that_o not_o long_o since_o i_o hear_v one_o of_o the_o ringleader_n of_o the_o independent_a sect_n deliver_v this_o doctrine_n in_o a_o sermon_n at_o the_o abbey_n of_o westminster_n viz._n that_o to_o a_o save_a knowledge_n of_o god_n it_o suffice_v not_o to_o know_v he_o in_o the_o book_n of_o nature_n or_o 2._o as_o reveal_v in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n but_o that_o we_o must_v also_o know_v he_o as_o abstract_n from_o his_o mercy_n and_o all_o his_o attribute_n now_o if_o this_o be_v a_o common_a tenet_n of_o your_o religion_n i_o must_v confess_v i_o be_o none_o of_o you_o my_o reason_n be_v 1._o because_o that_o if_o it_o be_v so_o rude_a people_n that_o know_v nothing_o of_o so_o refine_a abstraction_n must_v be_v damn_v 2._o because_o to_o be_v save_v it_o be_v most_o necessary_a to_o know_v god_n as_o concrete_a with_o his_o mercy_n or_o as_o merciful_a towards_o we_o in_o christ_n 3._o if_o i_o know_v god_n evermore_o under_o this_o refine_a abstraction_n from_o mercy_n i_o must_v be_v damn_v 4._o because_o if_o i_o know_v god_n abstract_v from_o his_o mercy_n i_o know_v he_o out_o of_o christ_n and_o out_o of_o the_o gospel_n for_o god_n in_o christ_n and_o in_o the_o gospel_n be_v not_o abstract_n but_o concrete_a with_o mercy_n 5._o because_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god_n as_o reveal_v in_o scripture_n be_v sufficient_a to_o salvation_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o needful_a to_o know_v he_o any_o otherways_o in_o this_o life_n 6._o because_o if_o i_o know_v god_n out_o of_o scripture_n and_o abstract_n from_o mercy_n it_o be_v a_o knowledge_n without_o faith_n for_o faith_n formal_a object_n be_v god_n in_o christ_n as_o reveal_v in_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v a_o knowledge_n of_o god_n in_o christ_n as_o reveal_v in_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o there_o must_v be_v some_o save_a knowledge_n of_o god_n without_o faith_n 7._o if_o a_o save_a knowledge_n of_o god_n be_v of_o god_n as_o abstract_n from_o all_o his_o attribute_n it_o must_v be_v a_o knowledge_n of_o god_n without_o any_o simplicity_n and_o so_o of_o god_n as_o abstract_n from_o a_o pure_a act._n 8._o as_o abstract_n from_o all_o his_o perfection_n i.e._n without_o all_o his_o perfection_n 9_o e._n of_o god_n as_o abstract_n from_o his_o goodness_n and_o so_o as_o without_o his_o goodness_n 10._o of_o god_n as_o without_o insinitie_n 11._o without_o omnipresence_n 12._o without_o immutability_n 13._o without_o eternity_n 14._o without_o life_n without_o knowledge_n science_n or_o wisdom_n 15._o without_o any_o will._n 16._o without_o any_o love_n towards_o mankind_n 17._o without_o hatred_n of_o sin_n or_o sinner_n 18._o without_o power_n or_o omnipotency_n 19_o without_o any_o decree_n of_o predestination_n or_o reprobation_n 20._o without_o any_o providence_n or_o care_n of_o his_o creature_n 21._o without_o creation_n and_o so_o not_o as_o creator_n for_o to_o know_v god_n as_o abstract_n from_o these_o attribute_n be_v to_o know_v god_n as_o without_o they_o now_o who_o dare_v say_v that_o to_o know_v god_n as_o abstract_n from_o all_o those_o attribute_n or_o without_o they_o be_v a_o save_a knowledge_n this_o be_v indeed_o a_o independent_a save_a knowledge_n independent_a on_o god_n word_n on_o christ_n on_o faith_n and_o all_o grace_n and_o consequent_o most_o graceless_a 23._o to_o know_v god_n as_o abstract_n from_o all_o his_o attribute_n be_v to_o know_v god_n as_o abstract_n from_o his_o essence_n and_o so_o to_o know_v god_n as_o without_o himself_o or_o his_o own_o essence_n or_o be_v for_o god_n attribute_n be_v not_o only_a eadem_fw-la cum_fw-la essentid_v ut_fw-la personae_fw-la sed_fw-la &_o de_fw-la essentia_fw-la de_fw-la quidditativo_fw-la ejus_fw-la conceptu_fw-la &_o praedicatae_fw-la ejus_fw-la essentialiae_fw-la and_o some_o of_o they_o quasi_fw-la de_fw-la specifico_fw-la ejus_fw-la conceptu_fw-la from_o which_o god_n can_v no_o way_n be_v abstract_v 24._o if_o god_n be_v consider_v as_o abstract_n from_o all_o his_o attribute_n it_o be_v no_o more_o a_o knowledge_n of_o god_n but_o some_o idol_n of_o the_o independent_o brain_n sicque_fw-la habes_fw-la meum_fw-la candorem_fw-la &_o vestrum_fw-la pariteratrorem_fw-la now_o let_v the_o reader_n judge_n which_o of_o our_o two_o expression_n be_v most_o malignant_a m._n s._n his_o three_o answer_n come_v to_o this_o grant_v they_o their_o desire_n i._n e._n a_o full_a liberty_n and_o they_o will_v bray_v no_o more_o than_o the_o wild_a ass_n do_v when_o he_o have_v grass_n a._n s._n 1._o all_o heretic_n say_v as_o much_o yea_o the_o devil_n will_v be_v glad_a to_o agree_v with_o god_n upon_o such_o term_n 2._o but_o god_n have_v forbid_v the_o church_n to_o tolerate_v you_o 3._o in_o new_a england_n they_o of_o your_o party_n will_v tolerate_v no_o sect_n 4._o and_o such_o a_o toleration_n here_o can_v but_o breed_v all_o sort_n of_o division_n whereas_o if_o there_o be_v one_o only_a discipline_n or_o church_n government_n establish_v we_o shall_v have_v no_o distraction_n at_o all_o 5._o but_o how_o can_v i_o pray_v unriddle_v it_o i_o a_o liberty_n grant_v to_o contest_v and_o quarrel_v one_o with_o another_o ever_o take_v away_o contestation_n and_o quarrel_n 6._o if_o the_o presbyterian_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o division_n because_o they_o tolerate_v not_o you_o as_o you_o say_v so_o be_v moses_n and_o aaron_n for_o not_o tolerate_v core_n dathan_n and_o abiron_n your_o simile_n of_o he_o who_o murder_v the_o duke_n of_o burgundy_n will_v hold_v if_o it_o be_v apply_v to_o your_o sect_n otherways_o it_o be_v altogether_o impertinent_a and_o beside_o the_o present_a purpose_n m._n s._n his_o four_o answer_n come_v to_o this_o that_o in_o case_n one_o government_n be_v establish_v it_o will_v breed_v as_o great_a or_o more_o faction_n and_o division_n then_o if_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v a._n s._n this_o argument_n conclude_v as_o well_o against_o moses_n in_o favour_n of_o core_n dathan_n and_o abiron_n as_o against_o we_o for_o if_o moses_n have_v grant_v such_o a_o toleration_n to_o they_o and_o their_o sect_n as_o the_o independent_o be_v now_o suitor_n for_o it_o will_v not_o have_v breed_v such_o division_n and_o if_o the_o non-toleration_n of_o it_o breed_v as_o great_a division_n as_o the_o toleration_n of_o it_o will_v have_v do_v what_o be_v the_o cause_n that_o this_o toleration_n of_o your_o sect_n breed_v so_o many_o injurious_a and_o calumnious_a expression_n against_o the_o presbyterian_o what_o will_v you_o not_o say_v and_o do_v have_v you_o once_o get_v a_o toleration_n to_o m._n s._n his_o five_o answer_n that_o sundry_a person_n of_o one_o family_n in_o the_o city_n hear_v divers_a minister_n without_o any_o division_n a.s._n i_o answer_v that_o those_o minister_n be_v not_o of_o divers_a sect_n or_o if_o they_o be_v without_o doubt_n it_o breed_v many_o division_n and_o alienates_v their_o mind_n one_o from_o another_o neither_o can_v any_o godly_a good_a man_n who_o be_v bind_v by_o duty_n to_o have_v a_o care_n of_o his_o family_n but_o be_v grieve_v when_o he_o see_v his_o child_n his_o wife_n and_o servant_n separate_v in_o affection_n from_o he_o and_o the_o church_n wherein_o he_o serve_v god_n and_o to_o eat_v at_o his_o table_n in_o his_o house_n when_o they_o will_v not_o eat_v at_o the_o lord_n table_n with_o he_o in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n what_o you_o say_v of_o a_o house_n of_o bondage_n if_o we_o be_v all_o under_o one_o government_n it_o be_v most_o false_a for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o people_n of_o god_n shall_v have_v be_v in_o a_o house_n of_o bondage_n when_o they_o come_v out_o of_o egypt_n and_o be_v bring_v into_o the_o land_n of_o canaan_n because_o that_o there_o they_o have_v but_o one_o government_n so_o with_o you_o it_o must_v be_v a_o house_n of_o bondage_n in_o every_o state_n that_o have_v but_o one_o sort_n of_o civil_a government_n i_o will_v not_o answer_v his_o vain_a vaunt_a in_o extol_v his_o own_o sect_n only_o i_o wonder_v that_o he_o be_v offend_v at_o we_o that_o we_o desire_v but_o one_o good_a government_n what_o ever_o it_o be_v be_v it_o ill_o to_o have_v but_o one_o good_a government_n wherefore_o do_v he_o plead_v for_o many_o ill_a government_n wherefore_o will_v not_o those_o of_o new_a england_n admit_v many_o if_o it_o be_v so_o good_a if_o it_o be_v want_v of_o mercy_n not_o to_o tolerate_v other_o how_o merciless_a be_v the_o mercy_n of_o new_a england_n that_o will_v not_o tolerate_v presbyterian_o no_o not_o in_o a_o corner_n of_o their_o country_n when_o their_o neck_n be_v put_v in_o the_o pillory_n their_o nose_n slit_v their_o ear_n cut_v and_o their_o person_n imprison_v what_o m._n s._n say_v of_o distraction_n of_o mind_n under_o episcopal_a government_n it_o be_v not_o for_o want_v of_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o
communion_n 2._o if_o you_o can_v show_v any_o material_a difference_n in_o doctrine_n and_o other_o thing_n yea_o you_o confess_v yourselves_o that_o it_o be_v not_o great_a you_o can_v separate_v yourselves_o from_o we_o in_o sacramental_a communion_n and_o discipline_n 3._o neither_o hitherto_o have_v you_o show_v any_o practice_n in_o sacramental_a communion_n wherein_o you_o differ_v from_o we_o for_o we_o have_v no_o idolatry_n among_o we_o and_o man_n open_o vicious_a be_v not_o admit_v to_o the_o lord_n table_n among_o we_o neither_o can_v any_o particular_a man_n abstain_v from_o sacramental_a communion_n in_o a_o church_n upon_o pretext_n that_o this_o or_o that_o man_n be_v vicious_a for_o it_o belong_v not_o to_o he_o but_o to_o the_o ruler_n of_o the_o church_n to_o judge_v of_o particular_a man_n life_n whether_o they_o be_v in_o a_o state_n to_o communicate_v or_o not_o no_o more_o appertain_v it_o to_o one_o particular_a church_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o member_n of_o another_o particular_a church_n wherefore_o that_o not_o be_v their_o act_n it_o can_v be_v impute_v to_o they_o and_o consequent_o they_o have_v no_o reason_n in_o such_o a_o case_n to_o be_v so_o scrupulous_a m._n s._n his_o second_o answer_n be_v howbeit_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o one_o communion_n and_o discipline_n yet_o will_v they_o be_v lead_v to_o it_o by_o light_n and_o not_o by_o fear_n a._n s._n 1._o there_o be_v light_n enough_o show_v you_o if_o you_o will_v open_a your_o eye_n to_o see_v it_o and_o we_o desire_v you_o not_o to_o join_v in_o this_o unity_n out_o of_o any_o fear_n of_o man_n but_o of_o god_n 2._o howbeit_o you_o can_v see_v the_o light_n yet_o no_o approbation_n consent_n or_o positive_a permission_n or_o toleration_n shall_v be_v grant_v you_o to_o live_v in_o darkness_n much_o less_o to_o erect_v school_n and_o synagogue_n of_o darkness_n 3._o the_o parliament_n and_o all_o good_a man_n i_o be_o confident_a will_v tolerate_v you_o in_o your_o darkness_n till_o jesus_n christ_n enlighten_v you_o if_o you_o can_v be_v content_a to_o live_v in_o quality_n of_o private_a man_n and_o not_o erect_v church_n and_o school_n to_o blind_v other_o neither_o can_v they_o grant_v you_o any_o thing_n more_o for_o howsoever_o they_o can_v compel_v your_o conscience_n yet_o must_v they_o hinder_v you_o to_o undo_v other_o man_n conscience_n in_o sow_v of_o your_o tare_n and_o wild_a oat_n m._n s._n 3._o answer_n that_o duty_n which_o lie_v upon_o all_o christian_n to_o have_v but_o one_o communion_n and_o discipline_n among_o they_o be_v no_o dispensation_n unto_o any_o party_n or_o number_n of_o they_o to_o smite_v their_o brethren_n with_o the_o fist_n of_o uncharitableness_n or_o to_o dismount_v they_o from_o their_o ministerial_a stand_n in_o the_o church_n because_o they_o will_v not_o or_o rather_o can_v knit_v and_o join_v in_o the_o same_o communion_n and_o discipline_n with_o they_o a._n s._n 1._o you_o be_v very_o ingrate_a unthankful_a unto_o the_o parliament_n and_o your_o brethren_n of_o the_o assembly_n you_o have_v experiment_v no_o uncharitableness_n from_o any_o of_o they_o hitherto_o they_o have_v deal_v with_o you_o in_o all_o meekness_n and_o brotherly_a affection_n 2._o none_o of_o you_o have_v be_v put_v out_o of_o your_o ministry_n for_o your_o opinion_n howbeit_o many_o of_o you_o have_v merit_v it_o for_o your_o insolency_n and_o malepertnesse_n in_o erect_v of_o new_a church_n and_o sect_n against_o your_o own_o tenet_n for_o you_o maintain_v that_o a_o church_n can_v be_v erect_v without_o the_o magistrate_n consent_v and_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o association_n of_o neighbour_n church_n which_o you_o have_v not_o have_v in_o your_o church_n here_o in_o old_a england_n 3._o but_o wherefore_o may_v not_o sectary_n be_v dismount_v who_o mount_v so_o high_a at_o their_o own_o hand_n 4._o if_o you_o will_v not_o join_v with_o the_o rest_n the_o church_n of_o this_o kingdom_n and_o submit_v to_o the_o 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who_o know_v if_o it_o shall_v please_v god_n in_o his_o mercy_n to_o end_v this_o war_n but_o it_o may_v make_v a_o sacrifice_n of_o all_o such_o as_o shall_v have_v hand_n in_o it_o all_o christian_n be_v bind_v in_o conscience_n to_o oppose_v such_o licentiousness_n and_o libertinism_n in_o religion_n m._n s._n his_o 4._o answer_n be_v that_o those_o of_o his_o sect_n be_v keep_v under_o hatch_n and_o oppress_a a._n s._n unto_o this_o we_o have_v answer_v and_o in_o this_o they_o do_v as_o child_n that_o weep_v before_o they_o be_v whip_v a._n s._n 14._o if_o visible_a church_n have_v discipline_n or_o government_n different_a in_o their_o species_n than_o the_o church_n must_v be_v different_a in_o their_o species_n also_o but_o the_o consequent_a be_v false_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o antecedent_n so_o church_n have_v not_o different_a discipline_n and_o government_n the_o connexion_n in_o my_o argument_n be_v prove_v because_o all_o collective_a body_n that_o be_v govern_v be_v difference_v in_o their_o species_n by_o their_o specifical_a government_n as_o we_o see_v in_o civil_a government_n in_o the_o constitution_n of_o state_n kingdom_n and_o republic_n the_o assumption_n be_v prove_v because_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v but_o one_o church_n in_o its_o species_n m.s._n jeer_n jest_n and_o flout_v this_o argument_n he_o make_v as_o though_o he_o help_v it_o but_o it_o be_v strong_a enough_o without_o his_o help_n the_o matter_n be_v sound_a enough_o and_o the_o syllogism_n in_o form_n m._n s._n his_o first_o answer_n be_v that_o from_o hence_o can_v be_v gather_v that_o the_o apologisme_n be_v not_o tolerable_a a._n s._n this_o be_v not_o the_o conclusion_n that_o i_o have_v to_o prove_v for_o i_o never_o read_v in_o scripture_n or_o else_o where_o of_o any_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n or_o government_n name_v apologisme_n away_o then_o with_o your_o new_a coin_a term_n of_o apologisme_n and_o quinque_fw-la ecclesian_n minister_n etc._n etc._n the_o conclusion_n that_o i_o have_v to_o prove_v be_v this_o presbyterian_o and_o your_o independent_a church_n have_v not_o according_a to_o god_n word_n or_o shall_v not_o have_v different_a discipline_n which_o any_o neophyt_n in_o logic_n can_v easy_o deduce_v by_o the_o power_n of_o syllogism_n for_o it_o be_v know_v in_o logic_n that_o a_o syllogism_n that_o can_v infer_v a_o universal_a conclusion_n may_v infer_v all_o the_o particular_n of_o that_o universal_a conclusion_n as_o when_o i_o conclude_v that_o all_o man_n have_v reasonable_a soul_n i_o conclude_v that_o peter_n paul_n and_o john_n have_v reasonable_a soul_n so_o then_o when_o i_o conclude_v here_o universal_o that_o no_o church_n have_v or_o shall_v have_v different_a discipline_n ergo_fw-la presbyterian_o independent_o and_o other_o church_n shall_v not_o have_v different_a discipline_n or_o government_n i_o conclude_v there_o must_v be_v but_o one_o church_n and_o one_o government_n what_o ever_o it_o be_v if_o the_o lord_n be_v god_n then_o follow_v he_o but_o if_o baal_n then_o follow_v he_o so_o if_o presbyterian_a discipline_n or_o government_n be_v god_n follow_v it_o if_o independent_o discipline_n be_v god_n follow_v it_o and_o no_o other_o let_v not_o the_o child_n be_v divide_v in_o two_o as_o the_o false_a mother_n that_o have_v steal_v the_o child_n will_v have_v have_v it_o but_o let_v it_o live_v as_o the_o true_a mother_n desire_v no_o more_o plurality_n i_o pray_v of_o discipline_n then_o of_o benefice_n let_v no_o man_n bargain_n about_o government_n let_v god_n ordinance_n hold_v what_o ever_o it_o be_v and_o wherever_o independent_a government_n be_v whether_o in_o aries_n taurus_n cancer_n or_o capricorn_n you_o may_v go_v there_o and_o enjoy_v it_o peaceable_o we_o only_o speak_v of_o the_o discipline_n of_o christ_n church_n in_o england_n what_o it_o shall_v be_v m._n s._n it_o follow_v not_o from_o hence_o
that_o therefore_o that_o government_n which_o be_v more_o general_o establish_v and_o practise_v in_o the_o world_n shall_v be_v that_o specifical_a government_n whereby_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v govern_v a._n s._n neither_o intend_v i_o to_o infer_v or_o conclude_v any_o such_o thing_n only_o i_o say_v that_o whatever_o the_o assembly_n conclude_v or_o the_o parliament_n establish_v in_o the_o state_n yet_o according_a to_o god_n word_n plurality_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n or_o government_n can_v no_o way_n be_v conclude_v or_o establish_v and_o consequent_o you_o go_v against_o god_n word_n in_o plead_v for_o it_o and_o therefore_o all_o be_v lose_v that_o you_o build_v thereupon_o i_o can_v better_o answer_v your_o compare_v of_o i_o with_o herod_n then_o to_o slight_v it_o with_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o overflowing_n of_o your_o call_n one_o good_a argument_n will_v help_v your_o cause_n more_o than_o a_o hundred_o injury_n be_v this_o the_o independent_a power_n of_o piety_n you_o talk_v so_o much_o of_o unto_o m._n s._n his_o 2._o answer_v i_o grant_v he_o that_o before_o he_o and_o his_o colleague_n be_v sufficient_o inform_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o any_o government_n that_o in_o god_n mercy_n shall_v be_v establish_v they_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o obey_v much_o less_o ought_v they_o to_o be_v scourge_v as_o he_o speak_v but_o when_o they_o be_v sufficient_o inform_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o it_o i_o mean_v sufficientiâ_fw-la morali_fw-la which_o be_v all_o that_o man_n can_v furnish_v they_o but_o not_o physicâ_fw-la which_o be_v only_o in_o god_n hand_n they_o must_v obey_v and_o no_o way_n plead_v with_o all_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n non-conviction_n and_o pretend_a conscience_n and_o toleration_n and_o want_v of_o authority_n in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n to_o punish_v they_o they_o must_v obey_v as_o well_o as_o the_o false_a prophet_n and_o schismatic_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n m.s._n 3._o answ_n the_o servant_n of_o christ_n shall_v not_o fall_v foul_a for_o uniformity_n in_o discipline_n and_o the_o great_a eat_v up_o the_o less_o god_n have_v provide_v other_o mean_n a._n s._n if_o divers_a discipline_n be_v establish_v by_o law_n the_o good_a minister_n must_v tolerate_v that_o which_o they_o can_v mend_v and_o serve_v themselves_o of_o all_o the_o mean_n they_o can_v according_a to_o god_n word_n to_o reduce_v their_o brethren_n to_o the_o right_a way_n but_o if_o they_o be_v not_o yet_o establish_v none_o but_o one_o shall_v be_v approve_v by_o the_o servant_n of_o god_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o imitation_n of_o moses_n or_o rather_o of_o god_n be_v bind_v in_o duty_n only_o to_o admit_v one_o and_o that_o the_o most_o conform_a to_o scripture_n unless_o he_o will_v bring_v in_o faction_n and_o schism_n both_o into_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n and_o that_o principal_o when_o any_o of_o they_o may_v be_v dangerous_a for_o both_o as_o independency_n which_o may_v prove_v more_o dangerous_a than_o seven_o heresy_n but_o in_o all_o this_o m.s._n answer_v not_o my_o argument_n formal_o but_o most_o ridiculous_o grant_v the_o premise_n and_o deni_v the_o conclusion_n a._n s._n 15._o neither_o christ_n nor_o his_o apostle_n ever_o grant_v any_o toleration_n to_o divers_a sect_n and_o government_n in_o the_o church_n wherefore_o then_o will_v you_o be_v suitor_n for_o that_o which_o they_o never_o grant_v m._n s._n here_o neither_o deni_v the_o antecedent_n nor_o the_o consequence_n of_o this_o my_o argument_n but_o sing_v his_o old_a song_n that_o neither_o christ_n nor_o his_o apostle_n do_v ever_o grant_v a_o power_n to_o a_o major_a part_n of_o profossour_n in_o a_o kingdom_n or_o nation_n to_o grind_v the_o face_n of_o their_o brethren_n either_o because_o they_o can_v not_o conform_v their_o judgement_n with_o they_o or_o because_o they_o keep_v a_o good_a conscience_n a._n s._n 1._o we_o grant_v you_o all_o that_o 2._o neither_o be_v your_o face_n grind_v 3._o much_o less_o grind_v for_o non-conformitie_n of_o your_o judgement_n with_o they_o or_o keep_v of_o a_o good_a conscience_n 4._o your_o conscience_n be_v very_o ill_a that_o will_v not_o be_v inform_v of_o the_o truth_n 5._o we_o have_v tell_v you_o that_o anabaptist_n separatist_n and_o other_o like_a unto_o you_o pretend_v the_o same_o thing_n 6._o you_o furnish_v we_o here_o a_o argument_n against_o new-england_n man_n in_o their_o proceed_n with_o godly_a minister_n here_o 7._o live_v quiet_o and_o trouble_v not_o the_o church_n nor_o the_o state_n and_o you_o may_v live_v here_o a_o peaceable_a life_n without_o any_o trouble_n to_o your_o conscience_n 8._o but_o it_o be_v a_o foolery_n in_o you_o to_o think_v that_o your_o face_n be_v grind_v because_o your_o brethren_n will_v not_o consent_v that_o you_o erect_v a_o sect_n &_o have_v pulpit_n allow_v you_o to_o beat_v down_o the_o truth_n they_o be_v bind_v in_o conscience_n to_o resist_v you_o as_o you_o take_v yourselves_o bind_v to_o resist_v they_o 9_o if_o you_o think_v your_o face_n grind_v here_o you_o may_v be_v go_v and_o live_v in_o contentment_n there_o from_o whence_o you_o come_v 10._o and_o yet_o howbeit_o your_o brethren_n of_o the_o ministeris_n take_v not_o upon_o themselves_o any_o thing_n but_o to_o resist_v you_o with_o the_o arm_n of_o the_o spirit_n yet_o must_v you_o think_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v no_o less_o power_n over_o you_o here_o than_o your_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v over_o sectary_n in_o new-england_n 11._o but_o it_o be_v better_o for_o you_o brethren_n to_o take_v a_o resolution_n to_o live_v with_o we_o in_o unity_n under_o such_o a_o discipline_n as_o may_v be_v conclude_v and_o settle_v in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n but_o can_v you_o live_v in_o this_o world_n unless_o you_o give_v a_o law_n to_o all_o the_o world_n what_o you_o say_v of_o presbyterian_o in_o assume_v of_o something_o imperious_a etc._n etc._n be_v but_o a_o calumny_n m.s._n 2._o answer_n my_o argument_n with_o a_o question_n whence_o we_o have_v a_o toleration_n of_o our_o presbyterian_a discipline_n a._n s._n 1._o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n in_o philosophy_n that_o questio_fw-la questionem_fw-la non_fw-la solvit_fw-la one_o question_n solve_v not_o another_o 2._o i_o answer_v that_o we_o have_v its_o institution_n from_o god_n in_o his_o word_n as_o we_o have_v already_o demonstrate_v it_o and_o he_o in_o institute_v of_o it_o have_v ordain_v that_o it_o be_v not_o only_o tolerate_v but_o also_o receive_v and_o preach_v through_o all_o the_o world_n as_o i_o have_v already_o prove_v 3._o in_o france_n it_o be_v bring_v in_o by_o christ_n minister_n establish_v by_o a_o protestant_a king_n and_o some_o other_o before_o he_o who_o have_v some_o taste_n of_o the_o gospel_n 4._o it_o have_v be_v there_o establish_v by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o the_o protestant_a army_n which_o god_n bless_v under_o a_o protestant_a king_n against_o the_o pope_n the_o papist_n and_o jesuit_n who_o will_v have_v pull_v the_o crown_n off_o his_o head_n to_o set_v it_o upon_o don_n philip_n that_o so_o fight_v for_o his_o crown_n he_o may_v also_o fight_v for_o that_o of_o christ_n jesus_n and_o establish_v it_o glorious_o in_o his_o kingdom_n and_o all_o this_o may_v be_v easy_o confirm_v by_o the_o french_a history_n and_o sundry_a edict_n in_o favour_n of_o protestant_n it_o be_v a_o untruth_n that_o ever_o it_o be_v tolerate_v by_o the_o romish_a church_n for_o they_o employ_v all_o their_o endeavour_n to_o oppress_v it_o yea_o against_o all_o law_n they_o be_v bind_v to_o their_o king_n who_o be_v also_o bind_v to_o they_o for_o fight_v for_o his_o cause_n in_o england_n it_o be_v establish_v as_o i_o have_v sundry_a time_n tell_v you_o in_o the_o french_a dutch_a italian_a and_o spanish_a church_n by_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n authority_n and_o how_o it_o have_v be_v establish_v in_o scotland_n it_o be_v better_a know_v than_o i_o can_v declare_v it_o viz._n by_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n m._n s._n his_o 3._o answer_v or_o objection_n against_o my_o reason_n come_v to_o this_o that_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n papist_n will_v not_o tolerate_v protestant_n who_o they_o hold_v for_o schismatic_n a.s._n 1_o this_o be_v only_o say_v but_o not_o prove_v 2._o they_o neither_o tolerate_v heretic_n nor_o schismatic_n when_o they_o can_v hinder_v they_o 3._o the_o papist_n hold_v not_o we_o simple_o for_o schismatic_n but_o also_o for_o heretic_n 4._o and_o consequent_o if_o your_o argument_n hold_v that_o we_o must_v tolerate_v whatsoever_o they_o tolerate_v since_o they_o tolerate_v we_o in_o quality_n of_o heretic_n in_o their_o judgement_n we_o must_v also_o tolerate_v heretic_n yea_o jew_n also_o and_o permit_v they_o synagogue_n as_o they_o do_v yea_o we_o must_v tolerate_v a_o hundred_o religion_n as_o
the_o state_n of_o poland_n do_v 5._o the_o question_n be_v not_o what_o papist_n will_v but_o what_o both_o we_o and_o they_o shall_v do_v or_o rather_o what_o god_n word_n command_v we_o to_o do_v we_o take_v not_o antichrist_n but_o christ_n and_o his_o word_n for_o a_o pattern_n of_o our_o duty_n m.s._n his_o 4._o answ_n whereas_o you_o say_v that_o they_o grant_v not_o a_o toleration_n to_o divers_a sect_n do_v you_o not_o imply_v that_o they_o do_v grant_v a_o toleration_n to_o some_o one_o sect_n at_o least_o and_o how_o know_v you_o whether_o the_o apologisme_n be_v not_o that_o sect_n a.s._n true_o m.s._n be_v very_o subtle_a who_o of_o a_o negative_a infer_v a_o affirmative_a even_o as_o if_o i_o shall_v conclude_v thus_o m._n s._n be_v not_o divers_a schismatic_n or_o heretic_n ergo_fw-la he_o be_v one_o heretic_n this_o man_n have_v not_o commit_v divers_a adultery_n ergo_fw-la he_o have_v commit_v one_o adultery_n have_v you_o never_o learn_v good_a m.s._n that_o old_a rhyme_n wherein_o there_o be_v more_o reason_n than_o poetry_n syllogisari_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la ex_fw-la particulari_fw-la neve_n negativis_fw-la rectè_fw-la concludere_fw-la si_fw-la vis_fw-la since_o it_o follow_v not_o i_o know_v not_o at_o all_o that_o christ_n or_o his_o apostle_n ever_o grant_v a_o toleration_n to_o the_o sect_n of_o apologisme_n as_o you_o style_v it_o 3._o and_o since_o you_o appeal_v to_o my_o conscience_n in_o this_o point_n you_o must_v submit_v to_o my_o judgement_n otherwise_o you_o profane_v the_o name_n of_o god_n m._n s._n 5._o answer_n be_v that_o toleration_n be_v rei_fw-la malae_fw-la and_o therefore_o the_o apologist_n shall_v not_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o toleration_n but_o shall_v be_v encourage_v a.s._n m.s._n be_v mind_v to_o be_v merry_a but_o i_o must_v be_v serious_a and_o therefore_o 1._o i_o deny_v your_o antecedent_n and_o i_o give_v you_o the_o reason_n heretofore_o 2._o apologisme_n i_o have_v tell_v you_o be_v res_fw-la pessima_fw-la and_o more_o dangerous_a by_o consequence_n than_o 10._o heresy_n as_o i_o have_v sufficient_o prove_v to_o all_o man_n who_o will_v sit_v down_o with_o reason_n then_o he_o add_v that_o if_o they_o sin_n in_o sue_v for_o a_o toleration_n ergo_fw-la to_o prevent_v that_o sin_n it_o shall_v be_v grant_v they_o a._n s._n by_o the_o same_o reason_n if_o a_o man_n sin_n in_o sue_v for_o a_o toleration_n of_o mahumetanisme_n or_o adultery_n to_o the_o end_n to_o prevent_v such_o sin_n they_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v this_o argument_n of_o m.s._n be_v as_o ridiculous_a as_o impious_a m._n s._n but_o sixthly_a and_o last_o what_o do_v you_o think_v of_o sinite_fw-la utrumque_fw-la crescere_fw-la let_v both_o grow_v together_o until_o the_o harvest_n math._n 13.30_o a.s._n since_o you_o be_v so_o desirous_a of_o my_o judgement_n i_o shall_v willing_o give_v it_o you_o 1._o i_o answer_v by_o your_o own_o maxim_n that_o symbolica_fw-la theologia_n non_fw-la est_fw-la argumentativa_fw-la symbolical_a or_o parabolicall_a theology_n furnish_v no_o good_a argument_n now_o this_o be_v a_o parable_n for_o the_o text_n say_v v._o 3._o and_o he_o speak_v many_o thing_n to_o they_o in_o parablesâ—_n 2._o i_o believe_v that_o by_o both_o viz._n the_o wheat_n and_o the_o tare_n our_o saviour_n mean_v not_o heretic_n but_o all_o the_o good_a or_o the_o faithful_a and_o the_o wicked_a so_o that_o if_o out_o of_o this_o you_o will_v conclude_v a_o toleration_n you_o must_v conclude_v a_o toleration_n for_o adulterer_n murderer_n parricide_n ravilliack_n and_o gunpowder_n traitor_n chatell_n regicides_a 3._o if_o by_o a_o toleration_n you_o mean_v a_o positive_a toleration_n or_o consent_n such_o as_o you_o desire_v then_o we_o must_v all_o positive_o tolerate_v or_o consent_n to_o have_v man_n of_o such_o ill_a quality_n and_o ill_a condition_n to_o live_v among_o we_o with_o all_o impunity_n yea_o and_o approbation_n 4._o i_o believe_v that_o christ_n speak_v 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fain_o know_v what_o i_o mean_v to_o do_v with_o this_o story_n a._n s._n since_o he_o pretend_v so_o great_a dulness_n i_o have_v put_v the_o argument_n in_o form_n for_o he_o and_o show_v he_o how_o i_o serve_v myself_o of_o it_o to_o confirm_v my_o minor_a by_o m._n s._n prove_v that_o this_o story_n can_v serve_v i_o for_o say_v he_o i._n e._n a._n s._n do_v not_o approve_v of_o those_o proceed_n viz._n of_o the_o independent_o of_o n._n e._n a._n s._n it_o be_v all_o one_o for_o i_o argue_v only_o ex_fw-la concessis_fw-la which_o make_v it_o a_o argument_n ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la and_o show_v how_o that_o in_o so_o do_v and_o by_o such_o sue_v for_o a_o toleration_n here_o you_o stand_v not_o to_o your_o own_o principle_n but_o change_v they_o with_o the_o climate_n whereof_o i_o say_v what_o a_o very_a grave_a precedent_n of_o the_o court_n of_o parliament_n of_o paris_n say_v to_o the_o jesuit_n upon_o the_o like_a case_n the_o lord_n keep_v i_o from_o man_n that_o have_v one_o faith_n on_o the_o one_o and_o another_o on_o the_o other_o side_n of_o the_o alps_n so_o i_o to_o you_o god_n keep_v i_o from_o man_n who_o maintain_v some_o principle_n in_o america_n or_o new_a england_n and_o the_o contrary_a in_o europe_n or_o in_o old_a england_n i_o pray_v you_o holy_a father_n drink_v together_o and_o agree_v before_o you_o come_v to_o put_v we_o here_o in_o combustion_n m._n s._n be_v the_o man_n so_o full_a of_o the_o spirit_n of_o reprehension_n against_o such_o practice_n and_o yet_o so_o full_a of_o the_o spirit_n of_o imitation_n i._o e._n if_o a._n s._n reprove_v such_o practice_n he_o shall_v not_o imitate_v they_o a._n s._n i_o have_v answer_v 1._o that_o my_o argument_n prove_v not_o what_o i_o shall_v do_v but_o what_o you_o shall_v not_o do_v it_o be_v argumentum_fw-la ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la 2._o i_o answer_v again_o that_o we_o persecute_v not_o independent_o as_o you_o say_v but_o hinder_v they_o to_o sow_v their_o tare_n they_o have_v never_o 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i_o grant_v you_o that_o if_o the_o cause_v you_o maintain_v be_v as_o just_a as_o it_o be_v unjust_a those_o of_o new_a england_n shall_v do_v well_o to_o refuse_v we_o a_o toleration_n 6._o and_o yet_o can_v they_o not_o so_o just_o refuse_v we_o our_o demand_n as_o we_o refuse_v you_o you_o for_o the_o presbyterian_o who_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o toleration_n in_o new_a england_n be_v only_a suitor_n for_o presbyterian_o and_o those_o very_o few_o in_o number_n whereas_o m._n s._n and_o his_o colleague_n plead_v for_o a_o toleration_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o independent_o yea_o of_o all_o the_o sect_n of_o the_o world_n for_o any_o thing_n we_o know_v in_o the_o same_o sect_n p._n 103._o he_o condemn_v such_o practice_n in_o his_o brethren_n of_o new_a england_n in_o say_v that_o in_o such_o proceed_n they_o justify_v not_o themselves_o in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n viz._n justitia_fw-la causae_fw-la 7._o neither_o do_v either_o god_n or_o our_o conscience_n judge_v we_o in_o such_o proceed_n i_o e._n condemn_v we_o for_o we_o judge_v according_a to_o god_n word_n that_o divers_a sect_n which_o you_o will_v have_v tolerate_v be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v but_o that_o they_o be_v all_o to_o be_v suppress_v 8._o whereas_o he_o say_v that_o i_o be_o more_o of_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o independent_o of_o new_a england_n than_o the_o apologist_n i_o be_o glad_a that_o he_o be_v ashamed_a of_o his_o father_n and_o i_o agree_v with_o they_o in_o this_o that_o heretic_n schismatic_n and_o idolater_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v by_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o the_o independent_o of_o old_a england_n deny_v most_o bold_o what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o independent_a apologist_n that_o they_o profess_v not_o persecution_n mere_o for_o little_a difference_n in_o point_n of_o discipline_n i_o answer_v 1._o they_o do_v well_o to_o profess_v it_o since_o their_o power_n as_o yet_o be_v very_o small_a but_o what_o they_o may_v profess_v if_o they_o can_v get_v any_o 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be_v they_o never_o so_o erroneous_a in_o their_o opinion_n and_o execrable_a in_o their_o life_n will_v not_o submit_v unto_o the_o whole_a christian_n world_n m._n s._n again_o he_o say_v p._n 104._o that_o out_o of_o fear_n they_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o toleration_n if_o they_o do_v not_o bestir_v themselves_o by_o some_o mean_n or_o other_o to_o prevent_v it_o a._n s._n this_o be_v not_o metus_fw-la iustùs_fw-la sed_fw-la injustus_fw-la qui_fw-la non_fw-la cadit_fw-la in_o virum_fw-la constantem_fw-la it_o be_v not_o a_o just_a but_o a_o unjust_a fear_n that_o become_v not_o man_n but_o child_n who_o fear_v their_o own_o shadow_n at_o noonday_n some_o man_n do_v fear_n fly_v and_o such_o be_v your_o fear_n for_o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n of_o our_o discipline_n that_o man_n shall_v not_o be_v compel_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n and_o this_o may_v suffice_v to_o put_v you_o out_o of_o fear_n which_o if_o it_o can_v do_v we_o can_v cure_v pisander_n fear_n what_o ill_a usage_n have_v you_o receive_v here_o of_o the_o parliament_n that_o shall_v make_v you_o so_o fearful_a what_o you_o mean_v by_o your_o mean_n to_o prevent_v it_o i_o know_v not_o unless_o they_o be_v those_o that_o some_o of_o the_o people_n offer_v who_o be_v so_o capable_a of_o new_a impression_n that_o the_o 5._o apologist_n mention_v in_o their_o apology_n or_o that_o other_o viz._n that_o the_o independent_a party_n do_v offer_v to_o entertain_v 4000_o man_n in_o these_o war_n provide_v they_o may_v have_v have_v liberty_n to_o have_v make_v choice_n of_o their_o commander_n what_o he_o say_v in_o the_o rest_n of_o this_o §_o in_o his_o 4._o answer_v be_v but_o a_o tale_n and_o be_v sundry_a time_n answer_v as_o for_o that_o
he_o say_v in_o the_o next_o §_o of_o my_o fear_n it_o be_v a_o just_a fear_n ground_v upon_o experience_n but_o m._n s._n repli_v 1._o that_o some_o independent_o hold_v that_o all_o sect_n and_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v as_o a._n s._n relate_v ergo_fw-la in_o that_o case_n his_o sect_n may_v be_v secure_v also_o a._n s._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o antecedent_n and_o that_o we_o fear_v also_o viz._n that_o you_o will_v tolerate_v all_o sect_n which_o we_o will_v not_o tolerate_v 2._o we_o can_v be_v secure_a among_o all_o sect_n for_o there_o be_v some_o that_o will_v not_o tolerate_v we_o 3._o you_o speak_v so_o but_o for_o the_o present_a but_o if_o you_o have_v power_n we_o know_v not_o what_o you_o will_v do_v it_o be_v better_a not_o to_o tolerate_v sect_n when_o we_o can_v hinder_v they_o then_o to_o bring_v they_o in_o among_o we_o to_o tolerate_v we_o and_o to_o give_v we_o so_o just_a a_o cause_n of_o fear_n 4._o i_o say_v only_o that_o there_o be_v some_o of_o you_o who_o will_v tolerate_v all_o sect_n who_o peradventure_o be_v the_o far_o lesser_a part_n and_o shall_v not_o prevail_v in_o their_o voice_n 5._o and_o we_o know_v not_o upon_o what_o term_n they_o will_v tolerate_v we_o if_o they_o be_v the_o strong_a 6._o neither_o can_v your_o pretend_a probity_n secure_v we_o we_o see_v the_o example_n and_o have_v the_o experience_n of_o your_o merciless_a pity_n in_o new_a england_n you_o be_v all_o ejusdem_fw-la farinae_fw-la and_o caelum_fw-la non_fw-la animum_fw-la mutat_fw-la qui_fw-la trans_fw-la mare_fw-la currit_fw-la and_o what_o i_o say_v of_o your_o piety_n it_o can_v serve_v you_o little_a 1._o for_o i_o speak_v but_o of_o a_o few_o of_o you_o viz._n of_o the_o 5._o apologist_n 2._o because_o it_o be_v but_o a_o judgement_n of_o charity_n wherein_o i_o may_v be_v deceive_v yea_o wherein_o i_o have_v be_v deceive_v 3._o good_a man_n sometime_o may_v for_o want_v of_o light_n be_v dogged_a enough_o to_o use_v your_o own_o term_n as_o you_o grant_v yourself_o of_o your_o new_a england_n independent_o unto_o his_o 3._o reply_v that_o a_o poor_a toleration_n be_v far_o from_o superiority_n it_o be_v true_a but_o from_o a_o toleration_n it_o be_v to_o be_v fear_v you_o go_v further_o and_o if_o you_o can_v get_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n draw_v into_o your_o faction_n as_o in_o new-england_n you_o may_v be_v as_o dogged_a in_o a_o short_a time_n as_o they_o be_v to_o the_o 4._o reply_v that_o he_o think_v not_o that_o i_o know_v any_o such_o island_n it_o be_v a_o wonder_n that_o he_o know_v it_o not_o as_o well_o as_o i_o but_o it_o be_v little_a to_o purpose_n no_o more_o be_v his_o answer_n for_o it_o be_v but_o a_o currish_a jeer_n and_o touch_v not_o the_o argument_n at_o all_o he_o put_v in_o 5._o a_o jeer_n for_o a_o reason_n god_n have_v mercy_n on_o the_o silly_a argumenter_fw-la a._n s._n my_o 17._o argument_n be_v that_o the_o scripture_n forbid_v all_o toleration_n of_o sect_n revel_v 2.20_o 1_o cor._n 1.12_o &_o 3.3_o &_o 11.16_o 18_o 19_o 20._o heb._n 10.25_o gal._n 5.12_o m._n s._n his_o 1._o answer_v the_o scripture_n do_v not_o forbid_v all_o nor_o any_o such_o toleration_n as_o the_o apologist_n desire_v and_o remit_v we_o to_o his_o answer_n unto_o my_o 15._o reason_n and_o i_o remit_v the_o reader_n to_o my_o reply_n to_o the_o text_n of_o the_o revelation_n 2.20_o he_o say_v that_o by_o the_o toleration_n of_o jezabel_n be_v not_o mean_v â—_o civil_a or_o state-toleration_n but_o a_o ecclesiastic_a or_o church_n toleration_n a._n s._n howbeit_o formal_o there_o only_o be_v mean_v a_o ecclesiastic_a toleration_n yet_o by_o consequence_n it_o reach_v to_o a_o state_n toleration_n 1._o for_o whatsoever_o the_o ecclesiastical_a senate_n or_o presbytery_n be_v bind_v not_o to_o tolerate_v but_o must_v suppress_v in_o the_o church_n that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n or_o senate_n be_v bind_v not_o to_o tolerate_v but_o must_v suppress_v in_o the_o state_n since_o he_o be_v a_o nurse_n of_o the_o church_n and_o a_o keeper_n of_o the_o two_o table_n 2._o and_o so_o do_v the_o judge_n and_o the_o king_n of_o god_n people_n 3._o and_o so_o do_v the_o christian_a independent_a magistrate_n in_o new-england_n 4._o neither_o be_v the_o christian_a magistrate_n less_o bind_v to_o put_v it_o out_o of_o the_o state_n than_o the_o presbytery_n to_o put_v it_o out_o of_o the_o church_n 5._o and_o i_o will_v willing_o know_v of_o the_o five_o apologist_n their_o judgement_n upon_o this_o point_n neither_o believe_v i_o that_o they_o dare_v say_v or_o at_o least_o do_v believe_v that_o he_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o suppress_v all_o sort_n of_o sect_n that_o creep_v in_o into_o the_o church_n when_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n profess_v the_o true_a religion_n and_o discipline_n 6_o however_o m._n s._n say_v that_o they_o desire_v only_o a_o toleration_n for_o themselves_o and_o their_o church_n in_o the_o state_n yet_o he_o plead_v for_o a_o toleration_n for_o all_o schismatic_n heretic_n and_o idolater_n that_o may_v spring_v up_o either_o in_o their_o own_o or_o any_o other_o church_n 7._o neither_o can_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n if_o he_o follow_v god_n word_n grant_v a_o toleration_n without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o church_n if_o he_o judge_v it_o be_v not_o corrupt_v 8._o and_o a_o magistrate_n shall_v be_v worse_o than_o mad_a that_o shall_v permit_v a_o sect_n to_o come_v into_o the_o kingdom_n to_o preach_v down_o the_o gospel_n which_o he_o believe_v 9_o neither_o can_v he_o be_v orthodox_n and_o tolerate_v a_o new_a sect_n unless_o he_o tolerate_v we_o to_o believe_v that_o he_o be_v either_o corrupt_v by_o money_n or_o some_o other_o way_n so_o to_o do_v m.s._n his_o 2._o answer_v p._n 105._o be_v that_o since_o only_o the_o church_n of_o thyatira_n be_v here_o charge_v with_o this_o toleration_n evident_a it_o be_v that_o the_o power_n of_o redress_v emerge_a enormity_n in_o a_o church_n in_o every_o kind_n be_v commit_v by_o christ_n to_o every_o particular_a church_n respective_o within_o itself_o and_o so_o that_o they_o must_v be_v cut_v off_o only_o by_o the_o particular_a church_n which_o be_v trouble_v by_o they_o if_o there_o be_v no_o remedy_n otherwise_o a.s._n 1_o at_o least_o then_o thus_o much_o i_o gain_v by_o this_o argument_n as_o you_o confess_v that_o a_o particular_a church_n must_v cut_v off_o such_o as_o trouble_v she_o and_o consequent_o be_v bind_v not_o to_o tolerate_v they_o 2._o for_o the_o same_o reason_n other_o church_n must_v not_o tolerate_v they_o since_o they_o be_v all_o sister-churche_n ergo_fw-la no_o church_n must_v tolerate_v they_o ergo_fw-la no_o member_n of_o the_o church_n must_v tolerate_v they_o if_o no_o member_n ergo_fw-la the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o quality_n of_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n must_v not_o tolerate_v they_o or_o he_o must_v tolerate_v they_o against_o his_o conscience_n and_o what_o he_o can_v tolerate_v in_o the_o church_n as_o a_o member_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n that_o can_v he_o not_o tolerate_v in_o quality_n of_o a_o christian_a magistrate_n in_o a_o christian_a state_n if_o he_o can_v hinder_v it_o and_o if_o he_o have_v power_n to_o punish_v such_o as_o trouble_v one_o particular_a church_n how_o much_o more_o have_v he_o power_n to_o punish_v such_o as_o trouble_v all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o kingdom_n as_o schismatic_n and_o heretic_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n then_o by_o consequence_n may_v cut_v they_o off_o from_o the_o state_n as_o for_o that_o question_n which_o m._n s._n move_v here_o about_o the_o independent_a power_n of_o particular_a congregation_n it_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n and_o we_o discuss_v it_o more_o at_o large_a in_o its_o own_o place_n a.s._n there_o must_v be_v no_o such_o speech_n among_o we_o as_o i_o be_o of_o paul_n i_o of_o apollo_n etc._n etc._n m.s._n we_o join_v heart_n and_o hand_n with_o you_o a._n s._n and_o i_o with_o you_o so_o they_o must_v not_o be_v tolerate_v when_o they_o can_v be_v hinder_v m._n s._n add_v here_o a_o but_o 1._o every_o man_n that_o say_v i_o be_o of_o paul_n or_o i_o be_o of_o apollo_n be_v not_o to_o be_v teach_v to_o speak_v better_o by_o fine_v imprison_a un-churching_a or_o the_o like_a but_o by_o soundness_n of_o conviction_n a._n s._n i_o answer_v as_o i_o have_v sundry_a time_n do_v sinner_n according_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o church_n be_v 1._o to_o be_v hear_v 2._o to_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v 3._o after_o sufficient_a conviction_n if_o they_o be_v pertinacious_a to_o be_v punish_v condign_o by_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n viz._n suspension_n from_o the_o lord_n table_n or_o excommunication_n and_o afterward_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v to_o do_v his_o duty_n