by rightly representing them to the World They ought not to betray the Church wherein they live by a base and unworthy Silence Even the meanest Child of us ought to speak when you are about to kill our Mother Your long Nails wherewith you now scratch her Face must be shewn the people who see them not while they behold your hands lifted up to Heaven But besides these two there is a third sort between both who are dissatisfied only with a few things allow our Ministers to be good men and wish for Peace but yet for private respects hold fair correspondence with the Furies now named keep up the Separation hold Conventicles suffer the people without reproof to be fierce and violent against us connive at a great many of their false and absurd Opinions let them alone in their rude and insolent behaviour take not sufficient care to instruct them in the Truth to bring them to a modest and peaceable temper In short to qualifie them for Compliance with us Do not smile at the word for I can demonstrate it might soon be brought about if they pleased N. C. How I Pray Can you do more than all the men in the Kingdom C. Let them perswade their people but to be of their mind and the business is done N. C. Do you think they do not C. No I warrant you If they did the people would conform though they cannot For that which keeps this sort of Ministers from Conforming is not any thing to which the people are bound but something particularly required of them N. C. You have revealed a Secret to me C. It is easy for any body to find out that hath a mind to it There being nothing plainer than this that they would have read those prayers which I would have you hear if something else had not been in the way which you are not concerned in and that is renouncing the Covenant Let them then but perswade you to do all that they can do themselves and in order to that give you Reasons why it should be done and then I may hope to see you and I go to the same Church together And for them that do not stand upon the Covenant for there are some such they haâ—… the greater reason to exhort you to come nay to come themselves and bring you along with them But lest they should not do their duty give me leave to speak to you in those very words which they have writ to others and if you think they have now any weight in them as I believe you once thought they had we shall not be long separated N. C. What have they writ C. In a Book call'd A Vindication of the Presbyterial Government c. You will find a speech of your Ministers and Elders in the Province of London to those that had left their Communion and stood in divided Congregations from them Which if it had any force then in your opinion ought to prevail with you now to come and joyn your self again to us whom you have forsaken I will cite you some Passages of it in their own words And let me begin with those which you find pag. 130. in a distinct Character as the strength I suppose of what they had to say If we be a Church of Christ and Christ hold Communion with us why do you separate from us If we be the Body of Christ do not they that separate from the Body separate from the Head also We are loath to speak any thing that may offend you yet we intreat you to consider that if the Apostle call those Divisions of the Church of Corinth wherein Christians did 〈◊〉 separate into divers formed Congregations of several Communion in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper Schisms 1 Cor. 1.10 may not your Secession from us and professing you cannot joyn with us as Members and setting up Congregations of another Communion be more properly called Schism Thus they plead for Unity and Uniformity in those dayes 1649. And we say the very same now Be just I beseech you and either pronounce that they had no reason on their side when they wrote those words or that we have reason too who use the same to you Hear also what they say a little after and think one of us speaks it to you You gather Churches out of our Churches and you set up Churches in an opposite way to our Churches and all this you do voluntarily and unwarrantably not having any sufficient cause for it For you acknowledge us to be the true Churches of Jesus Christ and Churches with which Christ holds Communion This I dare say is the Judgment of every true Fresbyterian that the Church of England is a true Member of Christ's Body and that Christ holds Communion with her and hath not cut her off because of any Ceremonies she uses from him the Head of the Church If so consider I beseech you as they intreat their Brethren of the Separation How dare you refuse to hold Communion with those whom Christ Jesus holds Communion withall How can you with a safe Conscience thus separate your selves from those who are not separated from Christ Is it nothing to make a Schism in his Body Do you not rend your selves from him when you thus rend your selves from it Think seriously on it before you sleep that you may at least in purpose and resolution presently unite your self to us from whom you have departed N. C. But I am told that every Separation is not a Schism C. To this they answer in that Book and pray mind it The godly Learned say that every unjust and rash Separation from a true Church that is when there is no just or at least no sufficient cause of the Separation is a Schism And that there is a negative and a positive Schism The former is when men do peaceably and quietly draw from Communion with a Church not making a head against that Church from which they are departed The other is when persons so withdrawing do consociate and withdraw themselves into a distinct and opposite Body setting up a Church against a Church which let me tell you by the way is your Case my good Neighbour which Camero calls a Schism by way of eminency and farther tells us there are four Causes that make a separation from a Church lawful First when they that separate are grievously and intolerably persecuted Secondly when the Church they separate from is Heretical Thirdly when it is Idolatrous Fourthly when it is the Seat of Antichrist And where none of these four are found there the Separation is insufficient and Schism Now we are fully assured that none of these four Causes can be justly charged upon our Congregations therefore you must not be displeased with us but with your selves if we blame you as guilty of positive Schism What say you now my Neighbour Was this good Doctrine then or no If it was it is so still and I beseech you make good
that among other abominable Errors and damnable Heresies as they are called pag. 4. this is condemn'd for one pag. 22. That little can be done unless Liberty of Conscience be allowed for every man and sort of men to worship God in that way and perform the Ordinances of Christ in that manner as shall appear to them most agreeable to God's Word c. This among others they call a horrid and prodigious Opinion and tell us pag. 32. and 33. that it will lay the glory of the most high God in the dust if it take place and raze the Truth of Christ to the ground and overthrow all Christ's Ordinances and together therewith Magistrates and Ministers and all Religious and comely Order c. In short they say we shall be disown'd by all Reformed Churches who will cry out Is this England who covenanted to extirpate Popery Prelacy Superstition Schism c and after so long travel hath she nom bâ—ought forth an hidious Monster of Toleration N. C. I know all this as well as you can tell me and they are of the same mind still for this was writ onely against an Vniversal Toleration of all Sects which they abhorr C. I can tell you another story They would not so much as tolerate five poor men who professed to agree with them in all matters of Doctrine Judge then what their Opinions were about Liberty when they would not allow it to so few dissenting Brethren N. C. That was a great while ago and most of those streight-lac'd men are dead C. No such matter But if they were their Principles did not die with them but survived in their followers And yet now all on a sudden they are vanish'd Now they are for Liberty of Conscience By which if they mean onely a Liberty for themselves let them speak out that all their Brethren of the Separation may hear them And withal let them acquaint us by what Title they claim this Favour more than the rest of the Sects that are sprung from them who might take the liberty to separate from them as well as they take the Liberty to seperate from us And before they prove that it is due to them let them first answer their own Argument against the Independents which I can shew them in a Letter of the London Ministers to the Assembly of Divine which was this That to grant a Toleration to them and not to other Sectaries will be counted Injustices N. C. I perceive you are of a persecuting spirit C. You rather discover your self of a turbulent spirit which cannot forbear to trouble and confound even our discourse For that is not the business whether all Restraint of mens liberty be Persecution nor whether I am for it or no but to shew you that once your Ministers were of such a spirit as you call persecuting and now are not N. C. Then they are changed for the better C. You should have said Then they are chang'd which was the thing we were speaking of whether for the better or no that 's another question And let them if you please resolve it I believe they will not confess they were of a persecuting spirit when they were against the Liberty which they now claim N. C. What do you make them of no Principles at all C. Do not mistake me so They are constant to some Principles particularly this That all is well done that they do though quite contrary to what they did before N. C. You are bitter C. Do you like this Principle better which they will not forsake I warrant you That they are in God's way and therefore ought to be tolerated whereas all others are our of his way and therefore ought not to be tolerated N. C. You much offend me by these Reflections C. I 'll tell you another then that 's more moderate and will please you better That they must by all means keep you from coming to Church for fear you should see that you may be as well taught elsewhere as in their private Meetings N. C. I told you before there is no danger of that C. But you told me no Reason as I have shewn you that 's worth any thing N. C. We have one that will never suffer us to come to Church more as long as your Ministers are there C. What terrible Scare-crow should that that be N. C. To tell you the truth many of us do not think that they are Ministers C. Now you have revealed the Bottom of your heart Pardon me that sudden conclusion you may have more yet lurking behind which you have not told me I should rather have said Now you have revealed your Unskilfulness more than ever For what have any of yours to qualifie them for the Ministry which ours have not as well as they If you require the inward motions of the Spirit of God inclining a man to devote himself to this work which some of you think is enough this ours profess to have felt as you may see in the Form of ordering Priests If it be further necessary to be approved by Presbyters and to have their hands laid on them this is not wanting to ours as you may there also be satisfied N. C. But the Bishop layes on his hands also C. And can this unhallow them when they are so dedicated to God N. C. Yes so I am told C. Then you would sooner believe what one of your own Party says without any reason than what we say with all the reason in the world which is plainly partial affection N. C. Why so C. Is it not apparent that a Bishop is a Presbyter too though we think him more N. C. You acknowledge a distinction of persons in the Church which is Antichristian C. Nay then I have done with you You condemn all the ancient Church of Antichristianism and more than that the very Apostles themselves and the Evangelists who it is manifest had some Superiority over their brethren But observe whither you are run having once left your way You mix the very dregs of all other Sects with your own and believe any thing that makes against us even such things as the Minister you commonly hear would be asham'd to say First you onely disliked the Common Prayer then you did not love the man that read it next you would not come to hear him and now you will not allow him to be a Minister nay rather than suffer him to enjoy that name you will venture to deprive Apostolical men of their Office who exercised an Authority over their brethren N. C. Suppose they did yet they were not Lords C. No nor do we ordain any Lords when we make Bishops That 's an Honour which the King doth them to qualifie them to sit in Parliament and advise about the Affairs of the Realm in which they are as much concern'd as other men N. C. If their Lordships would preach more perhaps we might like them better C. I doubt not For those that do
use of it N. C. Some think it is a sufficient cause to separate in that there are such sinful mixtures tolerated among you and that your Congregations are miscellaneous Companies of all Gatherings and all sorts are admitted even to Sacramental Communion C. That 's the very Objection which your Ministers and Elders saw framed against them by the Separatists And what they answer to them we return to you First That this Charge is not true the Rule of the Church of England being as full and strict for Church-Members that shall come to Communion as that of the Assembly there cited pag. 133. which is this That they must be visible Sainst such as being of age do profess Faith in Christ and obedience to Christ according to the Rules of Faith aud Life taught by Christ and his appostles Secondly Suppose there were some sinful Mixtures say they at our Sacraments yet we conceive this is not a sufficient ground of a Negative much less of a Positive Separation The Learned Author forementioned tells us that Corruption in Manners crept into a Church is not a sufficient cause of Separation from it This he proves from Math. 23.2 3. and he adds also this Reason for it Because in what Church soever there is Purity of Doctrine there God hath his Church though overwhelm'd with Scandals And therefore whosoever separates from such an Assembly separates from the place where God hath his Church which is rash and unwarrantable The Church of Corinth had such a profane Mixture at their Sacrament as we believe few if any of our Congregations can be charged withal and yet the Apostle doth not perswade the Godly party to separate much less to gather a Church out of a Church N. C. What do you tell me of the Doctrine of a Forreign Divine C. They have made it theirs by approving what he says in their Book And besides they tell you there were many Godly and Learned Non-conformists of the last Age that were perswaded in their Conscience they could not hold Communion with the Church of England in receiving the Sacrament kneeling without Sin yet did they not separate from her Indeed in that particular act they withdrew but yet so as that they held Communion with her in the rest being far from a Negative much more from a Positive Separation from her Nay some of them mind the words even then when our Churches were full of sinful Mixtures with great Zeal and Learning defended them so far as to write against those that did separate from them who these Good and Learned men were they tell you in the Margin Mr. Cartwright Mr. Dod Mr. Hildersham Mr. Bradshaw Mr. Ball. N. C. Then we shall communicate with men in their sinâ— and we must not be led to that by the greatest Examples C. To prevent that they will advise you that if any Brother offend you you are not to separate from him for this is not the way to gain but to destroy his Soul but to tell him of it privately and in an orderly way to bring it to the Church And when you have done your Duty you have freed your Soul and may safely and comfortably communicate in that Church without Sin N. C. I perceive you are read in our Writers And trely you have now told me so much from them that I shall not have so hard an opinion of you as I had before And I hope this will preserve me from being guilty of the sin of Schism because the Nature of that consists in an open breach of Christian Love C. This will not serve your turn but you must come and joyn in Communion with us again For they tell you that as he who denies a Fundamental Article of the Faith is guilty of Heresie though he add not Obstinacy thereto to make him an Heretick So he that doth unwarrantably separate from the true Church is truly guilty of Schism though he add not Uncharitableness thereunto to denominate him a compleat Schismatick You may read the words if you will pag. 137. And afterward they tell you that to make a Rupture in the Body of Christ and to divide Church from Church and to set up Church against Church and to gather Churches out of true Churches and because we differ in some things therefore to hold Church-Communion in nothing this we think hath no warrant out of the word of God and will introduce all manner of confusion in Churches and Families and not onely disturb but in a little time destroy the power of Godliness Purity of Religion Peace of Christians and set open a wide Gap to bring in Atheism Popery Heresie and all manner of wickedness Thus they And how fast all this is a doing by your means who now will have no Communion with us in any thing because we differ in some things is apparent to all the world For the love of God and of the Church nay of your own Families consider of it in time and repent that so they may not be brought to utter Confusion but the Gap may be stopt which you have opened too wide already to Atheism Irreligion and all the rest of the Wickedness which comes powring in it self upon us Do not continue that Separation any longer which you have rashly begun lest you be found guilty of that very thing your selves which you condemned so much in others and profess is by all good men to be abhorred Read what I have now said over and over again and seriously lay it to heart lest your own Books be opened at the day of Judgement and Sentence be pronounced against you out of them Nay desire your Ministers to read it and to expound the reason to you why they should ssparate now more than Mr. Dod Mr. Hildersham Mr. Ball and such like did heretofore Intreat them to let you know how they excuse thewselves from the guilt not only of withdrawing themselves from our Communion which they call Negative Schism but also of making an head against us and drawing themselves into a distinct and opposite Body and setting up a Church against a Church which they call Positive and Schism by way of Eminency Ask them which of the four Causes of Separation they alledge to make their Departures from us necessary What we have done that should make it unlawful for them to communicate with us or rather How we have separated our selves from Jesus Christ and made him disown us If they be not able to give you very good satisfaction in this and in all the rest I hope you see what you are to do according to their own Advice and Counsel N. C. I suppose they will say that they are persecuted which will justifie their separation C. I cannot imagine what they should pretend unless it be this But bid them shew you what hath befalen them that should deserve that name And likewise shew that the Persecution is grievous nay intolerable for else they have told you it will not warrant
not know them perhaps you would admire them above most of your own N. C. Then I should conclude they had the Gift of Prayer but suppress it C. So they have but it is both in you and us onely a Natural gift or acquir'd by Exercise and Practise and Imitation N. C. Now you speak prophanely C. I speak the sense of the soberest of your own Party as I verily believe who would say the same if they durst but deal plainly with you And as simple as I am I dare undertake to justifie the truth of what I say against any of them if they have the face to contradict it N. C. I see you leave the Spirit of God nothing to do in our Prayers C. Would you would see how you forget your self Did I not tell you what the Spirit of Prayer was how that God bestows it upon us when he gives us a sense of himself and of our needs and stirs up in us holy desires and passionate longings after his Righteousness which we should express in such words as are becoming that Majesty with whom we have to do And this is the reason that we take care to chuse our words and not leave them to extemporary invention especially in the publick Service of God N. C. Do you think they will ever want Words whose hearts are full of Desires or can great Affections ever fail to furnish us with plenty of Language C. Yes that they may For all experience tells us that very great and high Affections are too big for Words and make a man at a stand for want of Expressions which no man sure will think a seemly thing in a publick Congregation And the passions of Admiration and Reverence of God restrain a mans forwardness of speaking to him and make him like a few words best which he is not then in a fit case to invent Aâ— for lesser Affections and superficial Heats I grant they seldom let a man want words if he have tolerable Parts and make him speak more readily than he would do at another time yet they are not able ever to furnish him with those that are fit proper and decent Which methinks should make you not quarrel with a sober form of words at least in our publick Devotions N. C. Would you could perswade me that a Form of words is lawful to be used it would go a great way to perswade me to come to your Church C. Strange that you should be so inapprehensive It is so lawful to use a Form of words that I have shewn you it is in a sort necessary that is we can have no security that the Service of God will always be performed well without one N.C. I confess I do not yet apprehend you C. Observe then I say the best of men though their hearts be full of good desires may from some cause or other want such words as are fit and proper to express their meaning In this case they must hack in an unseemly manner or make a stop or use such words as are too rude and slovenly or speak broken and imperfect language or at the best such as is too hard and obscure and unintelligible by the Vulgar None of which things are to be permitted in the publick Worship which ought to be performed with the greatest solemnity and gravity And therefore to prevent that Undecency and secure the Service of God from all that is unhandsome you must consent to a prescribed Form of words wherein men shall address their humble and hearty Desires to him For though some men at some times may pray well enough yet other men and the same men at other times may be very confused and full of Tautologies and it 's well if they endeavour not to supply these defects with rude Clamours brutish Noises and a deal of the Holy Scriptures wofully misapplied Beside how can you persuade any strangers to be of our Church or to hold any Communion with us if they do not know how we worship God And how should they know that unless you can produce something which by a general consent is own'd for his Service This no doubt is one reason why all Churches in the world have had their publick Forms of Prayer that they may let every body know how God is served by them and why the best men in Reformed Churches have wished those happy days might come of amity and friendship that they might by a Common Counsel and Consent form a certain Liturgy which might be as a Symbol and Bond of Concord among them all And truly I cannot advise how your Ministers can justifie themselves in separating now from all the Reformed Churches as well as ours with whom they covenanted to maintain an Uniformity not onely in Doctrine and Discipline but Worship also To me they seem to live in an open breach of one branch of that Covenant of which they are so tender For they do not endeavour in their place and calling to reform according to the example of those Churches N. C. What should they reform now they have no power C. Themselves and their Congregations which they take the boldness to gather who ought to serve God according to the Covenant after the example of the best Reformed Churches all of which have an Order and Form of Prayer and never imagin'd that those written Forms did bind up and stint the Spirit This is a peculiar phansie of your own who have no Form at all in any of your Conventicles or Meetings though it is in the power of your Ministers to have one as well as to hold such Meetings and though they be bound by their League and Covenant to do their endeavor to imitate those that have Nay I much question whether they use the Lord's Prayer They that do I believe have the least company such is the prejudice which they contrary to their Covenant have sowen in peoples minds against Forms of Prayer even that of the Lord's Which thing considered it makes me astonish'd at your impudence in pretending such niceness of Conscience and fear to break your Covenant when you break it every time you meet together without some Form of Divine Service N. C. They onely covenanted to reform this Church of England according to the example of the best Reformed Churches which they cannot do C. Onely do you say Is that a less thing then to reform a particular Congregation Methinks they should think themselves obliged to do what they can when they cannot do what they would and to do that in a part which they cannot do in the whole that is bring in some Form of Prayer into your Churches for so no doubt you esteem them N. C. I do not think they can if they would C. Why N.C. Because most of us think Forms unlawfull C. That 's their fault who either taught you to believe so heretofore or do not instruct you now to believe otherwise Though it were a very casie thing for them to do
Service N. C. What part should that be C. The Entrance or Beginning of his Prayer When he speaks very slow as if he was studying what to say and draws out his words with a low Voice and with a small degree of Vehemence and little or no Motion then I say I believe your Affections are low too and you feel not your heart much moved But when his Voice begins to rise especially if he lift it up on a sudden and it break out like a Clap of Thunder and when he speaks more fluently his Zeal begins to kindle and he lays about him and is full of life as you call it that is uses a great deal of Action then is the time if the truth were known that your Affections stir and begin to rise from the bottom of your Heart where they lay heavy and dull before Then you sigh and groan and perhaps weep and are put into many Passions which lay quiet enough till his Breath blew lowder Is not this the plain truth N. C. What then C. Then you are no more affected with the Prayers of your Minister as they are pious Petitions or Acknowledgments of God than you are with our Common-Prayer But only with the Voice the Vehemency the Action the pretty Fancies and fine Phrases which perhaps he lights upon when he is a little heated which were it my case 't would make me suspect the Love of God was not in me For why should he think he loves God who is not moved with Affection to him when he hears his Greatness Goodness Wisdom and Benefits to us soberly and gravely expressed but is in a great Commotion when he meets with a new Word that pleases him or a kind Phrase or melting Tone a sweet Voice or some such thing N. C. I hope it is something else that affects me C. If it be then pray tell me why should not the Common-Prayer affect you whose sense is good enough only it is not varied and dressed up in new words every day I beseech you try your Heart by examining the Book considering whether those very things be not requested of God there which you desire in your Prayers and if they be then demand of your self a Reason why they move you no more I doubt you will find it is because they are not new but old Expressions N. C. I will consider of it at leisure C. To help you a little take this along with you which will go near to convince you that if it be not the Voice and Tone it is the Novelty which affects you Suppose one of the Prayers of your own Ministers which you think is indicted by the Spirit was taken in short-hand writing and afterward used every day in the Service of God as often as our Prayers are Tell me seriously do you not think it would seem very flat at last fuller of nauceous Repetitions and faulty Expressions than you conceive to be in the Common-Prayer N. C. You put a hard Question to me C. I see you are inclined to be of my mind and therefore pray consider these two things First That since even a Prayer which you think so heavenly would not affect you alway if it were alway used it is to be feared you are moved only while Prayers are new and indeed because they are new not because they are good pious Petitions And Secondly that since it is convenient if not necessary to have a Form of Prayer in the Church and the Common-Prayer hath no other Imperfection but what those whom you so much admire would have were they constantly used as it is why should you not like it as well as any especially since it is established by publick Authority N. C. I will consider of it as I said before But I wish you had seen a Book as I perceive you have many of ours newly come out which supposes your Service-Book hath been abused to Superstition and Idolatry and therefore must be abolish'd C. He doth well to suppose it and not to undertake the proof of it What is the name of the Book N. C. Nehushtan C. I have had a short sight of it as it creeps up and down privately N. C. What do you think of it C. I will tell you first what I think of you N. C. Why what is the matter C. You seem to be in a most dangerous condition for you are infected as I told you already with the extravagant Fancies of a number of other Sects with whom you are blended And in all likelihood you will have such new Inventions or rather Frenzies every year as will at last destroy your selves as well as us Some of your Ministers for instance acknowledg that the Liturgy is lawful to be used and can read it themselves Others there are that think it lawful but not convenient for men of their Parts and Gifts whose Ministry which it seems is of great Necessity Benefit they conceive would be thereby rendred less useful Then there is a third sort who are gone farther and doubt of its Lawfulness So that they dare not be present at it though they are content others should who think it lawful And now here is a man thinks no body ought to hear it nor be suffered to use such a Form of Worship but though the Magistrate ought to tolerate you yet he ought not to tolerate us For he saith It is his Duty utterly to extirpate the Liturgy as well as the Ceremonies And every one of you in your places ought to do your parts towards the abolishing of it and not sit still in the midst of such Defilements and Snares but discover your hatred of them decline their use and in such ways as Prudence Justice and Order do allow Endeavour the rooting of them out Whether you will go next God only knows And God help the poor Children of the Church of England who when all so boldly challenge Liberty and Toleration must be the only Persons excluded from this Favour and according to this Gentleman be denied the use of the Common-Prayer when every body else may pray what he list N. C. You must be content if he have Evinced as he tells us he hath in his Title page That the Liturgy Ceremonies and other things used at this day in the Church of England ought neither to be imposed nor retained but utterly extirpated and laid aside And he pretends in his Epistle to have said more in this Argument than ever was said before C. He doth so and imagins he can weild an old rotten Engine that hath been long laid aside better than former Workmen who were but Bunglers in compare with this Artist For he doubts not to manage it so as to throw down the whole Fabrick of the English Church N. C. What Engine do you mean C. It is this Principle That it is the will and pleasure of God that such things as have been abused and polluted in Superstitions and Idolatrous Services should
a Separation and one thing more desire to learn of them which is whether those things that any of them have suffered be not the Effect and Punishment of their separation and not the Cause of it As for any Restraints the Law hath laid upon their Liberty they are nothing comparable to those that were laid on us when they were in Power and yet they will take it ill if they should be called Persecutors For if you look into an Ordinance of Parliament of 11. August 1645. for putting in execution the Directory you will find these words That if any person or persons whatsoever shall at any time or times hereafter use or cause the aforesaid Book of Common-Prayer to be used in any Church Chappel or publick place of Worship or in any private place or Family within the Kingdom of England or the Dominion of Wales or Port and â—own of Berwick every such person so offending â—herein shall for the first offence pay the sum â—f five pounds of lawful English money for the second offence ten pounds and for the third shall suffer one whole year Imprisonment without Bail or Mainprise Can you name me any Law now extant so severe and cruel as this was Do we abridge the poorest Tradesman so much of his liberty as then they would have abridg'd all the Nobles in the Land nay for any thing I see the KING himself at least his Family which were forbid the use of Common-Prayer under such great Penalties Are you not all allow'd to worship God just as you please your selves in your own Families Nay may not some of your Neighbours joyn with you if you and they be so minded For shame do not complain of Persecution when you are so kindly used who endeavoured in such a manner to oppress others And blush to think that you should separate upon this account which yet is all that you can have the face to pretend to excuse the Schism you have made The Common-Prayer you see was never imposed with such rigor as your Directory was And whereas you now take what liberty you list to preach and Write and print what you think good against the Common-Prayer it was then ordain'd that none should do so against the Directory or any thing contain'd therein which is a great deal more and in case any man was so bold he was to forfeit such a sum of money as should be thought fit to be imposed on him by those before whom he had his Trial provided it was not less than five pounds nor more than fifty Who should try him no body knew but he was sure to meet with little favour if the Directory-men met with him and were to handle him who would tolerate no Dissenters from them And their reason is given in the London Ministers Letter to the Assembly because they were bound by the Covenant to extirpate all Scism and to indeavour the Lord should be one and his Name one in the Three Kingdoms i. e. that all should subscribe to the Directory And there is another thing which to me seems something hard I am sure you ought to judg it so viz. an Ordinance of 2. June 1646. requiring that all people who were come to reside in the Parliament-Quarters should take the National League and Covenant and the Negative Oath notwithstanding any Articles that had been made by the Souldiery Why should you complain of the late Oxford Act as it is commonly called who could endure heretofore that men should be used so severely Compare that and this Ordinance together and tell me which of them is most moderate that which banished men out of many Counties or that which only prohibits their near habitation to a Town or two that which made void the promises which their own Officers had made or that which was against no ingagements at all I wish you would consider these things with a great many more of like nature for though your prejudices are strong I hope sometime they may serve to convince you And the mention of the Covenant just now brings a considerable thing to my mind which if it would not be tedious I would willingly propound and desire you to enquire about it N. C. I pray say on for your discourse begins to be pleasant to me C. I wish you would ask your Ministers why they themselves heretofore not onely approved of certain Ceremonies in the Worship of God but also were well pleased they should be enjoyn'd and yet now cry out upon our Ceremonies or at least would have them left at liberty N. C. What Ceremonies and Worship do you mean C. Was not the taking of the Solemn League and Covenant a piece of Religion N. C. Yes it was an Oath C. Read then an Ordinance of 2. Febr. 1643. ☜ and you will find it is ordain'd among other things that during the time that the Minister read the whole Covenant to the people the whole Congregation should be uncovered There is one Ceremony which now you will by no means indure should be imposed on you at the hearing of Sermons Then at the end of the Reading it they appoint that all shall take it standing There is another Ceremony And lastly that they should lift up their right hand bare That 's another if not two Ceremonies more For they enjoyn them to lift up the right Hand not the left and that it should be bare not covered with a Glove And this very Ordinance touching the Manner of the taking the Covenant they desired might be confirm'd by Act of Parliament as you may see in the Propositions sent to his Majesty at Newcastle July 11. 1646. Pray tell me if you can or else make enquiry why they did not leave men to their way and manner of doing this Religious Act seeing they would have no body tied to a Posture now in the Worship of God N. C. I will enquire For I know no reason of it C. If you please ask them another thing which is why they do not take their own Advice which they give about the Covenant For if they would the Covenant need not keep them from doing that which otherwise many of them profess they could do N. C. You must be at the pains to interpret your self for I know not what you intend C. The Parliament in the Ordinance now mentioned desire the Assembly of Divines to prepare an Exhortation for the better taking of the Covenant which should be read together with it Now in that Exhortation which was voted to be printed Febr. 9. 1643. the Assembly intreat the Episcopal Clergy who said they could not take the Covenant because it was against their former Oaths to consider this which is the thing I would have them consider now That if any Oath be found into which any Minister or others have entred not warranted by the Law of God and the Land in this Case they must teach themselves and others that such Oaths call for Repentance not Pertinacy
in them N. C. I know what you are going to infer But they will not yield that this Covenant was unwarrantable by the Laws of God and the Land and therefore they will not repent of it C. It was plainly against the Laws of the Land and those reasonable and good Laws from whence I conclude it was against the Laws of God which would have us obey humane Laws that do not contradict them and not combine together to destroy them N. C. They will never grant it was against the Laws of the Land and I think you cannot prove it C. Did they not Covenant to endeavour to preserve the Reformed Religion in the Church of Scotland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government N. C. Yes it s the first Barnch of the Covenant C. And did they not next of all Covenant to indeavour to reform Religion in these Kingdoms of England and Ireland in all Points according to the Examples of the best Reformed Churches N. C. Yes C. Then they were bound to reform us according to the Pattern of Scotland For that Church must needs be the best Reformed which needs no Reformation as it seems the Church of Scotland did not being to be preserved by them just as it was N. C. What of all this C. Then I will prove they bound themselves in an Oath against the Laws of the Land For our Laws make the King Supreme Governour over all persons and in all causes But the Presbyterial Government as it was in Scotland and was intended to be here though it allow the King to be Supreme Governour over all persons as they are his Subjects yet will not subject all Causes to his Government because Christ according to the Discipline is the only spiritual King and Governour over his Kirk As much as to say they are subject onely to Christ in some things N. C. This is onely a Collection which you make from several things compared together in which you may be deceived Sure they never intended to set up such a Government here C. That you may not be left therefore to my uncertain Reasonings as you will esteem them in this particular You may be satisfied about the Mind of the Assembly if you be at all acquainted with the History of the late Times By that I am informed they intended to bring the same Government among us that was in Scotland And Secondly they thought the Parliament was obliged to set it up by vertue of the Covenant When these two things are proved I believe you will be of my mind that they took an Oath against the Laws and therefore ought not to persist in it but repent of it N. C. I shall be glad to hear them proved C. You must know then that the Parliament declared for Presbyterial Government and passed most of the particulars brought them from the Assembly without any material alteration saving the point of Commissioners as they tell us in a Declaration of April 17. 1646. N. C. What 's the reason it was not set up C. Have patience and I will tell you These ugly Commissioners stood in the way which the Assembly would not admit of as the Parliament would not admit of their Arbitrary Government N. C. Why do you call it so C. The title of the Declaration tells you that the intention of it is among other things to secure the people against all Arbitrary Government viz. in the Church which they spoke of before But that you may be sure of it they let you know when they come to that part of it which concerns Church-Government that the Presbytery challeng'd an Arbitrary Power which they could not grant The reason was because they would have set up ten thousand Judicatories within the Kingdom which should have had a supreme Authority over us in many things And this was demanded in such a way as they proceed to tell us as is not consistent with the Fundamental Laws and Government of the same and by necessary consequence excluding the Power of the Parliament of England in the exercise of that Jurisdiction This was the very cause as they farther inform us why they had settled no Government since their sitting because they could not subject themselves and the People of the Land to so vast a power as the Presbytery challeng'd which they tell us a little after would have been for the Civil Magistrate to part with some of his Power out of his hands Now before we go any farther I pray tell me who was the supreme Civil Magistrate then but the KING And how will you excuse these men from going about to rob him of a part of his Power and wrest it out of his hands N. C. Sure they did not Covenant to do this C. We shall try that by and by But that you may better know how they meant to go to work and to over rule the Supreme Power in many Causes you must understand these things That it being resolved by both Houses that all persons guilty of notorious and scandalous Offences should be suspended from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper the Assembly likewise resolved that these two Powers lay in the Eldership or Presbytery and only in them First the Power of judging and decluring what are such notorious and scandalous offences for which persons guilty Power out of his hands which is contrary to the Law of God And therefore they ought not any longer to hold themselves bound by it but rather should repent as they advise others to do in that case To sum up the whole business An Oath that is not warranted by the Laws of God and the Land ought to be repented of Your Ministers took an Oath not warranted by the Laws of God and the Land but contrary to them Therefore they ought to repent of it The former Proposition is their own The latter is partly theirs and partly the Commons of England For your Ministers expounded the Covenant as it obliged them to set up the Presbytery in an absolute Power and the Commons declared the exercise of such a power to be against the Fundamental Laws of the Realm and the Authority of the Supreme Magistrate I might add but that you little regard that His MAJESTY in his Proclamation declared it an unwarrantable Oath October 9 1643. And therefore do you and they see whether the Conclusion do not unavoidably follow and make a good use of it I beseech you before it be too late N. C. As Paul said to Agrippa that he almost perswaded him to be a Christian so I must say to you that you almost perswade me to be a Conformist and come to Church C. I wish as S. Paul said then that you were not almost but altogether such as I am I mean that you would not only come thither but with such reverence and seriousness as becomes the Service of God But to come and sit or â—oll or look about or whisper and talk as many do methinks is as bad as staying