Would God this point were throughly known and well weighed on all partes The neglect or ignorance whereof hath both bred and nursed your separation and driuen the weake and inconsiderate into strange extremities This say we for our selues in no more charity then truth But for you how dare you make this shamelesse Comparison Can your heart suffer your tong to say that there is no more diffrence betwixt Rome and vs then there is betwixt vs and you How many hundred errours how many damnable heresies haue we euinced with you in that so compounded Church shew vs but one mis-opinion in our Church that you can proue within the ken of the foundation Let not zeale make you impudent Your Doctor could say ingenuously sure that in the doctrines which she professeth she is farr better and purer then that Whore mother of Rome and your last Martyr yet better If you mean saith he by a Church as the most doe that publique profession whereby men do professe saluation to be had by the death and righteousnesse of Iesus Christ I am free from denying any Church of Christ to be in this land for I know the Doctrine touching the holy Trinity the natures and Offices of the Lord Iesus free iustification by him both the Sacraments c. published by her Maiesties authority and commanded by her lawes to be the Lords blessed and vndoubted truthes without the knowledge and profession whereof no saluation is to be had Thus he with some honesty though little sense If therfore your will do not stand in your light you may well see why we should thus forsake their Communion and yet not you ours Yet though their corruptions be incomparably more wee haue not dared to separate so farre from them as you haue done from vs for lesse Still wee holde them euen a visible Church but vnsound sicke dying sicke not of a consumption onely but of a leprosie or plague so is the Papacy to the Church diseases not more deadly then infectious If they be not rather in Sardies taking of whom the spirit of God saieth Thou hast a name that thou liuest but thou art dead and yet in the next words bidds them awake and strengthen the things which are ready to die And though our iudgement and practise haue forsaken their erroneous doctrines and seruice yet our charity if you take that former distinction hath not vtterly forsaken and condemned their persons This is not our coolenesse but equality your reprobation of vs for them hath not more zeale then headstrong vncharitablenesse SECTION XXIIII The Separation made by our holy Martyrs BVt how could you without blushing once name Cranmer Latimer and those other holy-Martyres which haue beene so oft obiected to the conuiction of your schisme Those Saints so forsooke the Romish Church as wee haue done died witnesses of Gods truth in that Church from which you are separated Liued Preached gouerned shed their blood in the communion of the Church of England which you disclaime and condemne as no Church of God as merely Antichristian Either of necessity they were no Martyrs yea no Christians or else your separations and censures of vs are wicked Chuse whether you will They were in the same case with vs wee are in the same case with them no difference but in time eyther their blood will be vpon your heads or your owne This Church had then the same constitution the same confusion the same worshippe the same Ministery the same gouernement which you brand with Antichristianisme swayed by the holy hands of these men of God condemne them or allow vs. For their separation They found many main errours of doctrine in the Church of Rome in the Papacy nothing but errours worth dying for shew vs one such in ours and wee will not onely approue your separation but imitate it SECTION XXV What separation England hath made THE Church of England dooth not now wash her hands of Babilonish abhominations but rather shewes they are cleane Would God they were no more foule with your slander then her owne Antichristianisme Here will bee found not pretences but proofes of our forsaking Babylon of your forsaking vs not so much as wel-coloured pretences You beginne to be ingenuous while you confesse a reformation in the Church of England not of some corruptions but many and those many not sleight but maine The gifts of aduersaries are thankelesse As Ierom said of his Ruffinus so may we of you that you wrong vs with praises This is no more praise then your next page giues to Antichrist himselfe Leaue out Many and though your commendations be more vncertaine we shall accept it so your indefinite proposition shall sound to vs as generall That we haue reformed the maine corruptions of the Romish Church None therefore remaine vpon vs but sleight and superficiall blemishes so you haue forsaken a Church of a foule skinne but of a sound heart for want of beauty not of truth But you say many not All that if you can picke a quarrell with one you might reiect all yet shewe vs that one maine and substantiall error which we haue not reformed and you doe not more embrace those truths with vs which we haue receiued then we will condemne that falshood which you haue reiected and imbrace the truth of that Separation which you haue practised The degrees whereby that strumpet of Babylon got on Horse-back you haue learned of vs who haue both learned and taught that as Christ came not abruptly into the world but with many presages and prefigurations The day was long dawning ere this Sunne arose so his aduersary that Antichrist breaks not suddenly vpon the Church but comes with much preparation and long expectance and as his rise so his fall must be graduall and leisurely Why say you then that the whole Church euery where must at once vtterly fall off from that Church where that man of sinne sitteth His fall depends on the fall of others or rather their rising from vnder him If neither of these must be sudden why is your hast But this must not be yet ought as there must be heresies yet there ought not It is one thing what God hath secretly decreede another what must be desired of vs If we could pull that Harlot from her seate and put her to Iezebels death it were happy Haue we not endeuoured it VVhat speake you of the hyest Towers and strongest pillers or tottering remainders of Babylon we shew you all her roofes bare her walles raced her vaults diged vp her monuments defaced her altars sacrificed to desolation Shortly al her buildings demolished not a stone vpon a stone saue in rude heapes to tell that here once was Babylon Your strife goes about to build againe that her tower of confusion God deuides your languages It wil be wel if yet you build not more then we haue reserued SECTION XXVI The maine grounds of separation YOV will now
Scriptures Surely you euen ioyne Scriptures as you separate your selues This is right as your Pastor to proue all members of the visible Church elect and pretious stones cytes 1. K. 7. 9. where is speech only of Salomons house in the Forest of Lebanon his Porch for his Throne his Hall his Pallace for Pharachs daughter and when hee comes to describe the office of his imaginary doctor thwacks fourteene Scriptures into the margent whereof not any one hath any iust colour of inference to his purpose and in his discourse of the power of the Church that hee might seeme to honour his margent with shew of textes hath repeated sixe places twise ouer in the space of sixe lines For these of yovrs you might obiect the first to the Cainites not to vs Cain was cast out worthily Doe wee either denie or vtterly forbeare this censure Take heed you follow him not in your voluntary exile to the land of Nod. The second you might obiect to those mungrell Christians that match with Turkes and Pagans There are sonnes of God that is members of the visible Church and daughters of men which are without the bounds meere Infidels it is sinne for those sonnes to yoake themselues with those daughters What is this to vs Noah was righteous the multitude disobedient Who denies it yet Noah separated not from that corrupted Church till the flood separated him from the earth but continued an auncient Preacher of righteousnesse euen to that peruerse and rebellious generation But it sufficeth you that Caine and the Giants were separated from the rest We yeelde it what will follow hence saue onely that notorious malefactors must be cast out and professed Heathen not let into the Chruch VVe hold and wish no lesse your places euince no more These before the law In Leuit. 20. 24. 26. God chose out Israel from other people This was Gods act not theirs a sequestring of his Israelites from the Gentiles not of Israel from it selfe yours is your owne and from men in all maine points of your owne profession But therefore Israel must be holy If any man denie holinesse to be required of euery Christian let him feele your Maranatha In Nehem. 9. 2. The Israelites separated themselues from the strangers which were Infidels whether in their marriage or deuotion Neither Gods seruice nor an Israelites bedde was for Heathens This was not the constituting of a new Church but reforming of the olde If therefore you can parallell vs with Pagans and your selues will bee Iewes this place fittes you Lastly what if there be an hatred betwixt the world Christs true Disciples Ioh. 17. 14. 16 what if Peter charged his auditors to saue themselues from the errours and practise of that froward generation whose handes were yet freshly imbrued with the blood of Christ Act. 2. 40. What if the same which Peter taught Paul practised in separating his followers from hearing some obstinate and blasphemous Iewes Act. 19. 9 VVhat if the Church of Corinth were Saints by calling 1. Cor. 1. 2 and therfore must be separated from the yoake of Infidels 2. Cor. 6. 17 Are these your patternes Are these fit matches for your brethren baptized in the same water and name professing euery point of the same true faith vsing for substance the same worshippe with you Hee that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darkenesse 1. Ioh. 2. 9. SECTION VI. What separation is to be made by Churches in their planting or restauration BVT all these examples perhappes are not so much to warrant what you haue done as to condemne the Church of England for what shee hath not done for such a separation she neither hath made nor doth make but standes actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdome without separation Loe here the maine ground of this Schisme which your Proto-Martyr Barrow hammers vpon in euery page an ill constitution Thus he comments vpon your wordes For where such prophane confuse multitudes without any exception separation or choice were all of them from publique idolatrie at one instant receiued or rather compel'd to be members of the Church in some parish or other where they inhabited without any due calling to the faith by the preaching of the Gospell going before or orderly ioyning together in the faith there being no voluntarie or particular confession of their owne faith and dueties made or required of any and lastly no holy walking in the faith amongst them who can say that these Churches consisting of this people were euer rightly gathered or built according to the rule of Christs Testament In his words and yours I finde both a mis-collection and a wronge charge For the former the want of noting one poore distinction breedes all this confusion of doctrine and separation of men for there is one case of a new Church to be called from Heathenisme to Christianity another of a former Church to be reformed from errours to more sincere Christianity In the first of these is required indeede a solemne initiation by Baptisme and before that a voluntarie and particular confession of faith and therefore a cleare separation and exception of the Christian from the Infidell In the latter neither is new Baptisme lawfull though some of you belike of olde were in hand with a rebaptization which not then speeding succeedeth now to your shame nor a new voluntary and particular confession of Faith besides that in Baptisme though very commendable will euer be prooued simply necessary to the being of a Church so long as the erring parties doe actually renounce their doctrines and in open profession imbrace the truth and as generally in the publique confession so particularly vpon good occasion giue iust testimonies of their repentance This is our case we did not make a new Church but mended an old your Clifton is driuen to this hold by necessity of argument Otherwise he sees there is no auoiding of Anabaptisme Mended saith your Doctor and yet admitted the miscelline rabble of the prophane Say now that such separation were not made Let some few be holy and the more part prophane Shall the lewdnesse of some disanul Gods couenant with others This is your mercy Gods is more who still held Israel for his when but fewe held his pure seruice Let that diuine Psalmist teach you how full the Tents of Israel were of mutinous rebels in the desert yet the piller by day night forsooke them not and Moses was so farre from reiecting them that he would not indure God should reiect them to his owne aduantage Looke into the blacke censures and bitter complaints of all the Prophets wonder that they separated not Looke into the increased masse of corruptions in that declined Church whereof the blessed eyes of our Sauiour were witnesses and maruell at his silent and sociable incuriousnesse yea his charge of not separating yee knowe not of
be free both in your profession and gift You giue vs to haue renounced many false Doctrins in Popery and to haue imbraced so many truths We take it vntill more You professe where you sticke what you mislike In those foure famous heades which you haue learned by heart from all your predecessors An hatefull Prelacy A deuised Ministery a confused and prophane communion and lastly the intermixture of grieuous errors What if this truth were taught vnder an hatefull Prelacy Suppose it were so Must I not imbrace the truth because I hate the Prelacy What if Israel liue vnder the hatefull Egyptians What if Ieremy liue vnder hatefull Pashur What if the Iewes liue vnder an hateful Priesthood What if the disciples liue vnder hatefull Scribes What are others persons to my profession If I may be freely allowed to be a true professed Christian what care I vnder whose hands But why is our Prelacy hatefull Actiuely to you or passiuely from you In that it hates you Would God you were not more your owne enemies Or rather because you hate it Your hatred is neither any newes nor paine Who or what of ours is not hatefull to you Our Churches Belles Clothes Sacraments Preachings Prayers Singings Catechismes Courts Meetings Burialles Mariages It is maruell that our aire infects not and that our heauen and earth as Optatus said of the Donatists escape your hatred Not the forwardest of our Preachers as you tearme theÌ„ haue found any other entertainment no enemy could be more spightfull I speake it to your shame Rome it selfe in diuers controuersary discourses hath bewrayed lesse gall then Amsterdam The better they are to others you professe they are the worse yea would to God that of Paule were not verified of you hatefull and hating one another But we haue learned that of wise Christians not the measure of hatred should be respected but the desert Dauid is hatred for no cause Michaiah for a good cause Your causes shall be examined in their places onwards it were happy if you hated your owne sinnes more and peace lesse our prelacy would trouble you lesse and you the Church SECTION XXVII The truth and warrant of the Ministery of England FOr our deuised office of Ministery you haue giuen it a true title It was deuised indeed by our Sauiour when he said go teach all Nations and Baptise and performed in continuance when hee gaue some to be Pastors and Teachers and not only the office of Ministery in generall but ours whom hee hath made both able to teach and desirous seperated vs for this cause to the worke vpon due tryall admitted vs ordayned vs by imposition of handes of the Eldershippe and prayer directed vs in the right diuision of the word committed a charge to vs followed our Ministery with power and blessed our labours with gratious successe euen in the hearts of those whose tongues are thus busie to denie the truth of our vocation Behold here the deuised Office of â—our Ministery What can you deuise against this Your Pastor who as his brother writes hopes to worke wonders by his Logicall skill hath killed vs with seuen Arguments which hee professeth the quintessence of his owne and Penryes extractions whereto your Doctor referres vs as absolute I would it were not tedious or worth a Readers labour to see them scanned I protest before God and the world I neuer read more grosse stuffe so boldly and peremptorily faced out so full of Tautologies and beggings of the Question neuer to bee yeelded Let mee yet mention the maine heads of them and for the rest be sory that I may not be endlesse To proue therefore that no communion may be had with the Ministery of the Church of England he vses these seuen Demonstrations First Because it is not that Ministery which Christ gaue and set in his Church Secondly Because it is the ministerie of Antichrists Apostasie Thirdly Because none can communicate with the ministery of England but he worshippes the beasts Image and yeeldeth spirituall subiection to Antichrist Fourthly Because this ministery deriueth not their power and functions from Christ Fiftly Because they minister the holy things of God by vertue of a false spirituall calling Sixthly Because iâ— is a strange ministery not appointed by God in his word Seuenthly Because it is not from heauen but from men Now I beseech thee Christian Reader iudge whether that which this man was wont so oft to obiect to his brother a crack't braine appeare not plainely in this goodly equipage of reasons for what is al this but one and the same thing tumbled seuen times ouer which yet with seuen thousand times babling shall neuer be the more probable That our ministery was not giuen and set in the Church by Christ but Antichristian what is it else to be from men to bee strange to be a false spirituall calling not to bee deriued from Christ to worship the Image of the beast So this great Challenger that hath abridged his nine Arguments to seuen might aswell haue abridged his seuen to one and a halfe Here would haue beene as much substance but lesse glory As for his maine defence First wee may not either haue or expect now in the Church that ministery which Christ set Where are our Apostles prophets Euangelists If we must alwayes looke for the very same administration of the Church which our Sauiour left why doe wee not challenge these extraordinary functions Doe we not rather thinke since it pleased him to beginne with those Offices which should not continue that herein he purposely intended to teach vs that if wee haue the same heauenly busines done we should not be curious in the circumstances of the persons But for those ordinary callings of Pastors and Doctors intended to perpetuity with what forehead can hee denie them to bee in our Church How many haue we that conscionably teach and feede or rather feede by teaching Call them what you please Superintendents that is Bishoppes Prelates Priests Lecturers Parsons Vicars c. If they preach Christ truly vpon true inward abilities vpon a sufficient if not perfect outward vocation such a one let all Histories witnesse for the substance as hath bin euer in the Church since the Apostles times they are Pastors and Doctors allowed by Christ We stand not vpon circumstances and appendances of the fashions of ordination manner of choyce attire titles maintenance but if for substance these be not true Pastors and Doctors Christ had neuer any in his Church since the Apostles left the earth All the difficulty is in our outward calling Let the Reader graunt our graue and learned Bishoppes to be but Christians and this will easily be euinced lawfull euen by their rules For if with them euery plebeian artificer hath power to elect and ordaine by vertue of his Christian profession the act of the worthiest standing for all how
and them Thus we flatter thus wee deceiue if yet they will needs run to perdition Perditio tua ex te Israel Our Clergie is so Romish as our Baptisme If therefore Romish because they came thence wee haue disproued it If therefore Romish because they haue beene vsed there we graunt and iustifie it That auncient confession of their faith which was famous thorough the world we receiue with them If they hold one God one Baptisme one heauen one Christ shall we renounce it Why should wee not cast off our Christendome and humanitie because the Romanes had both How much Rome can either challenge or hope to gaine in our Clergie and Ministration is well witnessed by the blood of those Martyrs eminent in the Prelacie which in the fresh memories of many was shed for God against that Harlot and by the excellent labours of others both Bishops and Doctors whose learned pens haue pulled downe more of the wals of Rome then all the corner-creeping Brownists in the world shall euer be able to doe while Amsterdam standeth It is you that furnish these aduersaries with aduantages through your wilfull diuisions Take Scilurus his arrowes single out of the sheafe the least finger breakes them while the whole bundle feares no stresse wee know well where the blame is our deseruings can be no protection to you you went from vs not we from you Plead not our constraint you should not haue beene compelled to forsake vs while Christ is with vs But who compels you not to call vs brethren to denie vs Christians your zeale is so farre from iustifying the wicked that it condemnes the righteous SECTION LVIII The Brownists scornefull opinion of our people How scornefully doe you turne ouer our poore rude multitude as if they were beasts not men or if men not rude but sauage This contempt needed not These sonnes of the earth may goe before you to heauen Indeed as it was of old said that all Egyptians were Physitions so may it now of you All Brownists are diuines no Separatist cannot prophesie No sooner can they looke at the skirts of this hill but they are rapt from the ordinary pitch of men Either this change is perhaps by some strange illumination or else your learned paucitie got their skill amongst our rude and prophane multitude we haue still many in our rude multitude whom wee dare compare with your teachers neither is there any so lewd and prophane that cannot pretend a scandall from your separation Euen these soules must be regarded though not by you Such were some of you but ye are washed c. The wise hearted amongst vs doe more then suspect find out our weakenesses and bewaile them yet doe they not more discouer our imperfections then acknowledge our truth If they bee truely wise wee cannot suspect them they cannot forsake vs Their charitie will couer more then their wisdomes can discouer SECTION LIX The conclusion from the fearefull answere of Separation MY last threat of the easier aunsweres of whoredomes adulteries then Separation you think to skoffe out of countenance I feare your conscience will not alwayes allow this mirth Our Consistories haue spared you ynough let those which haue tryed say whether your corrupt Eldership be more safe iudges If ours imprison iustly yours excommunicate vniustly To be in Custodie is lesse grieuous then out of the Church at least if your censures were worth any thing but contempt As Hierom said of the like It is well that malice hath not so great power as will you shall one day I feare finde the Consistorie of heauen more rigorous if you wash not this wrong with your teares That tribunall shall find your confidence presumption your zeale furie you are bold surely more then wise To proclame we haue no need of such criers doubtlesse your head hath made Proclamations long now your hand begins What proclaime yee Separation from the Communion Gouernment Ministery and worship of the Church of England what needed it Your act might haue saued your voice what should our eyes and eares be troubled with one bad obiect But why separate you from these Because they rise vp rebelliously against the Scepter of Christ The Scepter of Christ is his word he holdes it out we touch and kisse it What one sentence of it doe we wilfully oppose away with these foolish impieties you thrust a Reed into your Sauiors hand say Haile King of the Iewes and will needes perswade vs none but this is his rodde of Iron Lastly vpon what warrant Of his will and Testament you may wrong vs But how dare you fasten your lies vpon your Redeemer and Iudge What clause of his hath bid you separate We haue the true Copies As we hope or desire to be saued we can find no sentence that soundeth toward the fauour of this your act Must God be accused of your wilfulnesse Before that God and his blessed Angels and Saints we feare not to protest that we are vndoubtedly perswaded that whosoeuer wilfully forsakes the Communion Gouernement Ministerie or worshippe of the Church of England are enemies to the Scepter of Christ and rebels against his Church and annointed neither doubt we to say that the Mastershippe of the Hospitall at Norwich or a lease from that Citie sued for with repulse might haue procured that this separation from the Communion Gouernement and worshippe of the Church of England should not haue beene made by Iohn Robinson FINIS A Table of all the Sections contained in this Booke THE entrance into the worke fol. 1. The answerers Preamble fol. 3. The parties written to and their crime fol. 6. The kindes of separation and which is iust fol. 8. The antiquitie and examples of separation fol. 12. What separation is to be made by Churches in their planting or restauration fol. 16. What separation the Church of England hath made fo 19 Constitution of a Church fol. 21 Order 2. Part of Constitution how farre requisite and whether hindred by Constraint fol. 23. Constraint requisite fol. 24 Constitution of the Church of England fol. 26. The Answerers title fol. 31. The Apostasie of the Church of England fol. 33. The Separatists acknowledgements of the graces of the Church of England fol. 39. The vnnaturalnes of some principall separatists fol. 42. What the Separatists thinke themselues beholden to the Church of England for fol. 44. The Motherhood of the Church of England how farre it obligeth vs. fol. 45. The want of pretended Ordinances of God whether sinfull to vs and whether they are to bee set vp without Princes fol. 48. The bonds of Gods word vniustly pleaded by the Separatists fol. 51. The necessity of their pretended Ordinances fol. 52. The enormities of the Church in common fol. 55. The Church of England is the Spouse of Christ. fol. 56. How the Church of England hath separated from Babylon fol. 57. The Separation made
euening smels so strong of the Popes Portuise as it makes many hundreds amongst your selues stop their noses at it and yet you boast of the free and clear ayre of the Gospell wherin you breath Patres nostri non solum ante Cyprianum vel Agrippinum sed postea saluberrimam consuetudinem tenuerunt vt quicquid diuinum atque legitimum in aliqua haeresi vel schismate integrum reperirent approbarent potius quam negarent August Sep. That all Christendome should so magnifie your happinesse as you say is much and yet your selues and the best amongst you complain so much both in word and writing of your miserable condition vnder the imperious and superstitious impositions of the Prelates yea and suffer so much also vnder them as at this day you do for seeking the same Church-gouernment and Ministery which is in vse in all other Churches saue your owne Socrat. l. 1. c. 4. Constant. Alex. Ario. Ac tamet si vos inter vos vicâ—ssim de re quâ—piam minimi momenti dissentâ—tis siquidem neque omnes de omnibus rebus idem sentimus nihilomâ—nus tanâ— fiâ—ri pâ—terit vt eximia concordia sincerè inter vos integrâ—que sâ—ruâ—tur vna inter omnes communio consociatio custodiatur Sep. The truth is you are best liked where you are worst knowen Your next neighbours of Scotland know your Bishops Gouernment so well as they rather chuse to vndergoe all the miserie of bonds and banishment then to partake with you in your happinesse this way so highly doe they magnifie and applaud the same Which choice I doubt not other Churches also would make if the same necessitie were laid vpon them Sep. And for your graces we despise them not nor any good thing amongst you no more then you doe such graces and good things as are to be found in the Church of Rome from which you separate notwithstanding We haue by Gods mercie the pure and right vse of the good gifts and graces of God in Christs Ordinance which you want Neither the Lords people nor the holy vessels could make Babylon Syon though both the one and the other were captiued for a time Lastly it is thus written and we thus aduised M. Smiths retort vpon M. Cliston p. 50 Sep. Where the truth is a gayner the Lord which is truth cannot be a looser Neither is the thankes of ancient fauours lost amongst them which still presse on towards new mercies Vnthankfull are they vnto the blessed maiestie of God and vnfaithfull also which Inter licet vestrum non licet nostrum nutant ac remigant animae Christianorum Optat contr Parm. Sep. knowing the will of their Master do it not but go on pâ—esumptuously in disobedience to many the holy ordinances of the Lord and of his Christ which they know and in word also acknowledge he hath giuen to his Church to be obserued and not for idle speculation and disputation without obedience It is not by our sequestration but by your confusion that Rome and Hell gaines Sep. Your odious commixture of all sorts of people in the body of your Church in whose lappe the vilest miscreants are dandled sucking her brests as her naturall children and are be-blest by her as hauing right thereunto with all her holy things as prayer sacraments and other ceremonies is that which aduantageth hell in the finall obduration and perdition of the wicked whom by these meanes you flatter and deceiue Non enim propter malos boni desâ—rendi sed propter bonos mali tolerandi sunt c. Sicut tolerauâ—runt Prophetae c. Aug. Ep. 48. Bar. ag Gyff Sep. The Romish Prelacie and Priesthood amongst you with the appurtenances for their maintenance and ministrations are Romes aduantage Which therefore she challengeth as her owne and by which shee also still holdes possession amongst you vnder the hope of regayning her full inheritance at one time or other Sep. And if the Papists take aduantange at our condemnation of you and separation from you it concerns you well to see where the blame is and there to lay it least through light and inconsiderate iudgement you iustifie the wicked and condemne the righteous Sep. And for the suspition of the rude multitude you need not much feare it They will suspect nothing that comes vnder the Kings broad seale they are ignorant of this fault Though it were the masse that came with authoritie of the magistrate they for the most part would be without suspition of it so ignorant and prophane are they in the most places 1 Sam. 10. 10. It is the wise hearted amongst you that suspect your dealings who will also suspect you yet more as your vnfound dealing shall be further discouered Troub excom at Amster G. Iohns professes he found better dealing in the Bâ—shops Consistories and might haue found better in the Inquisition Hieron Cypr. de simplic praelat Ad pacis praemium venâ—re non polerunt qui pacem domini discordiae furore ruperunt Ibid. Inexpiabilis gâ—auis culpa discordiae nec passione purgatur Sep Lastly the terrâ—ble threat you vtter against vs that euen whoredomes and murders shall abide an easier answere then separation would certainly fall heauy vpon vs if this answere were to bee made in your Consistory Courts or before any of your Ecclesiasticall iudges but because we know that not Antichrist but Christ shal be our iudge we are hold vpon the warrant of his word and testament which being sealed with his blood may not bee altered to proclaim to all the world separation froÌ„ whatsoeuer riseth vp rebelliously against the scepter of his kingdome as we are vndoubtedly perswaded the Communion gouernment ministery and worship of the Church of England doe Iohn Robinson
A COMMON APOLOGIE OF THE CHVRCH OF ENGLAND Against the vniust Challenges of the ouer-iust Sect commonly called Brownists Wherein the grounds and Defences of the Separation are largely discussed OCCASIONED BY A Late Pamphlet published vnder the name Of an Answer to a Censorious Epistle Which the Reader shall finde in the Margent By I. H. LONDON Printed for Samuel Macham and are to be sold at his Shop in Pauls Church-yard at the Signe of the Bull-head 1610. TO OVR GRATIOVS AND BLESsed Mother the Church of ENGLAND THE MEANEST OF HER Children Dedicates this her Apology and wisheth all Peace and Happines NO lesse then a yeare and a halfe is past Reuerend Deare and holy Mother since I wrote a louing monitory letter to two of thine vnworthy Sons which I heard were fled from thee in person in affection and somewhat in opinion Supposing them yet thine in the maine substance though in some circumstances their owne Since which one of them hath wash't of thy Font-water as vnclean and hath written desperately both against thee and his owne fellowes From the other I receiued not two moneths since a stomakful Pamphlet besides the priuate iniuries to the monitor casting vpon thine honourable name blasphemos imputations of Apostasie Antichristianisme Whoordome Rebellion Mine owne wronges I could haue contemned in silence but For Sions sake I cannot hold my peace If I remember not thee O Ierusalem let my tongue cleaue to the roofe of my mouth It were a shame and sinne for me that myzeale should be lesse hote for thine innocency then theirs to thy false disgrace How haue I hastened therefore to let the world see thy sincere truth and their peruerse slanders Vnto thy sacred name then whereto I haue in all piety deuoted my selfe I humbly present this my speedy and dutifull labour whereby I hope thy weak Sonnes may be confirmed the strong encouraged the rebellious shamed And if any shall still obstinately accurse thee I referre their reuenge vnto thy Glorious Head who hath espoused thee to himselfe in trueth and righteousnesse Let him whose thou art right thee In the meane time we thy true sonnes shall not onely defend but magnifie thee Thou maiest be blacke but thou art comely the Daughters haue seene thee and counted thee blessed euen the Queene and the Concubines and they haue praised thee thou art thy Welbelouedst and his desire is towards thee So let it be and so let thine be towards him for euer and mine towards you both who am the least of all thy little ones IOS HALL A COMMON Apologie against the Brownists SECTION I. The entrance into the worke IF Truth and peace Zacharyes two companions had met in our loue this Controuersie had neuer beene the seuering of these two hath caused this separation for while some vnquiet mindes haue sought Trueth without Peace they haue at once lost Truth Peace Loue vs and themselues God knowes how vnwillingly I put my hand to this vnkind quarrell Nothng so much abates the courage of a Christian as to call his brother aduersary We must doe it woe to the men by whom this offence commeth Yet by how much the insultation of a brotherly enemy is more intollerable and the griefe of our blessed mother greater for the wrong of her owne So much more cause I see to breake this silence If they will haue the last words they may not haue all For our carriage to them They say when Fire the God of the Chaldees had deuoured all the other wooden Deities that Canopis set vpon him a Caldron full of water whose bottome was deuised with holes stop't with waxe which no sooner felt the flame but gaue way to the quenching of that furious Idoll If the fire of inordinate zeale conceite contention haue consumed all other parts in the separation and cast forth more then Nebuchadnezers furnace from their Amsterdam hither it were well if the waters of our moderation and reason could vanquish yea abate it This litle Hin of mine shall be spent that way wee may trie and wish but not hope it The spirits of these men are too-well knowne to admit any expectation of yeeldance since yet both for preuention and necessary defence this taske must be vndertaken I craue nothing of my Reader but patience and iustice of God victory to the truth as for fauour I wish no more then an enemy would giue against himselfe With this confidence I enter into these lifts and turne my penne to an Aduersary GOD knowes whether more proud or weake SECTION II. The Answerers Preamble IT is a hard thing euen for those which would seem sober minded men in cases of controuersie to vse soberly the frownes and disaduantages of causes and times whereby whiles men are deiâ—cted and troden downe they vse to behold their opposites mounted on high too repiningly and not without desperate enuie so are oftentimes moued to shoote vp at them as from below the bitter arrowes of spightfull and splenish discourses thinking any hatefull opposition sufficiently charitable to oppugne those aduersaries which haue them as they feele at so great an aduantage vpon this impotent malitiousnesse it commeth to passe that this aunswerer vndertaketh thus seuerely and peremptorily to censure that charitable censure of ignorance which as shall appeare in the sequell he either simply or willingly vnderstood not and to brand a deare Church of Christ with Apostacy Rebellion Antichristianisme What can bee more easie then to returne accusations Your Preamble with a graue bitternes charges me with 1. Presumption vpon aduantages 2. Weake and weightlesse discourse 3. Ignorance of the cause censured It had beene madnesse in me to write if I had not presumed vpon aduantages but of the cause of the truth not of the times Though blessed bee God the times fauour the truth and vs if you scorn them and their fauours complaine not to be an vnderling Thinke that the times are wiser then to bestow their fauours vpon willfull aduersaries but in spight of times you are not more vnder vs in estate then in conceipt aboue vs so wee say the Sunne is vnder a cloud we know it is aboue it Would God ouerlinesse and contempt were not yours euen to them which are mounted highest vpon best desert and now you that haue not learned sobrietie in iust disaduantages taxe vs not to vse soberly the aduantages of time there was no gall in my penne no insultation I wrote to you as brethren and wish't you companions there was more danger of flattery in my stile then bitternesse wherein vsed I not my aduantages soberly Not in that I said too much but not enough Not in that I was too sharpe but not weighty enough My opposition was not too vehement but too sleight and slender So strong Champions blame their aduersary for striking too easily you might haue forborne this fault it was my fauour that I did not my worst you are worthy of
more weight that complaine of ease The discourse that I rol'd downe vpon you was weake and weightlesse you shall well finde this was my lenitie not my impotence The fault hereof is partly in your expectation not in my letter I meant but a short Epistle you look't belike for a volume or nothing I meant onely a generall monition you look't for a solide prosecution of particulars It is not for you to giue taskes to others pennes By what Lawe must wee write nothing but large Scholasticall Discourses Such Tomes as yours May we not touch your sore vnlesse wee will launce and search it I was not enough your enemie forgiue me this errour and you shall smart more But not onely my omissions were of ignorance but my censures though seuere and solemne An easie imputation from so great a Controuler I pardon you and take this as the common lot of enemies I neuer yet could see any Scribler so vnlearned as that he durst not charge his opposite with ignorance If Dr. Whitaker M. Perkins M. Gyfford and that Oracle of our present times Dr. Andrewes went away content with this liuerie from yours how can I repine If I haue censured what cause I knew not let me bee censured for more then ignorance impudencie but if you know not what I censured let all my trust lie on this issue take both ignorance boldnesse and malice to your selfe Is your cause so mysticall that you can feare any mans ignorance What Cobler or Spinster hath not heard of the maine holds of Brownisme Am I only a stranger in Hierusalem If I know not all your opinions pardon me Your owne haue not receiued this illumination I speake boldly not your selfe Euery day brings new conceites and not one day teaches but corrects another you must be more constant to your selues ere you can vpbraide ignorance or auoide it But whether I knew your prime fancies appeares sufficiently by a particular discourse which aboue a yeare since was in the hands of some of your Clients and I wonder if not in yours Shortly am I ignorant If I were obstinate too you might hope with the next gale for me your more equall aduersarie at Amsterdam As I am my want of care and skil shal I hope loose nothing of the trueth by you nor suffer any of your foule aspersions vpon the face of Gods Church and ours But whiles we striue who shall be our Iudge The Christian Readers who are those Presume not yee more zealous and forward Countrey men that you are admitted to this Bench so farre are wee meere English from being allowed Iudges of them that they haue already iudged vs to be no Christians We are Goates and Swine no Sheepe of God since then none but your Parlour in the West and Amsterdam must bee our Iudges who I beseech you shall be our aduersaries God be iudge betwixt you and vs and correct this your vnchristian vncharitablenesse SECTION III The parties written to and their Crime I Wrote not to you alone what is become of your partner yea your guide Woe is me he hath renounced our Christendome with our Church and hath wash't of his former water with new and now condemnes you all for not separating further no lesse then we condemne you for separating so far As if you could not be enough out of Babylon vnlesse you be out of your selues Alas miserable countrimen whither runne you Religion hath but his height beyond which is errour and madnesse Hee telles you true your station is vnsafe either you must forward to him or backe to vs. I obiected separation to you yet not so extreame as your answere bewrayes a late separation not the first my charity hoped you lesse ill then you will needes deserue you graunt it odious because it casts imputation of euil vpon the forsaken Of euill Yea of the worst an estate incurable and desperate He is an ill Phisitian that will leaue his patient vpon euery distemper his departure argues the disease helpelesse were wee but faulty as your Landlord Churches your owne Rules would not abide your flight Hence the Church of England iustly matches Separatists with the vilest persons GOD himselfe doth so who are more vile then Patrons of evill yet no greater woe is to them that speake good of euill then those that speake euill of good So wise Generalls punish mutinous persons worse then Robbers or Adulterers So Corah and his companie a Storie cunningly turned vpon vs by your Martyr for their opposition to Moses were more fearefully plagued then the Idolatrous Israelites These sinnes are more directly against common societie the other more personall and if both haue like iniquitie yet the former haue both more offence and more danger And if not so yet who cannot rather brooke a lewdâ— seruant then an vnduetifull sonne though pretending faire colours for his disobedience At least you thinke the Church of England thinkes her selfe Gods Church as wel as your Saints of Amsterdam You that so accurse Apostacie in others could yee expect shee should brooke it in you But your reasons are iust and well grounded euery way of a man is right in his owne eyes Said wee not well that thou art a Samaritane and hast a Diuell say the Iewes What Schisme euer did not thinke well of it selfe For vs wee call heauen and earth to record your cause hath no more iustice then your selues haue charitie SECTION IIII. The kinds of separation and which is iust YEt there is a commendable and happie separation from the world from the Prince and men of the world and whatsoeuer is contrarie to God who doubts it There were no heauen for vs without this no Church which hath her name giuen by her father and husband of calling out from other Out of the Egypt of the world dooth God call his sonnes But this separation is into the visible Church from the world not as yours out of the Church because of some particular mixtures with the world or if you had rather take it of profession out of the world of Pagans and Infidels into the visible Church not out of the world of true though â—aultie Christians into a purer Church That I may here at once for all giue light to this point of separation we finde in Scripture a separation either to good or from euill To good so the Leuites were separated from among the children of Israel to beare the Arke and to minister so the first borne first fruites and Cities of refuge So Paul was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 separated which some would haue allude to his Pharisaisme but hath plaine reference to Gods owne words Act. 13. 2. separate me Barnabas and Saul Though this is rather a destination to some worthy purpose then a properly called separation From euill whither sinne or sinners From sinne so euery soule must eschew euill
what spirite you are Nowe you flye to constitution as if notorious euils were more to tollerable in the continuance then in the collection of assembles Sar di had but a few names that had not defiled their garments God praises these biddes them not separate from the rest Thyatirâ— suffers a false Prophetesse the rest that haue not this learning yet are bidden but to hold their owne not to separate from the Angell which hath not separated Iezebel from the Church SECTION VII What separation the Church of England hath made YOur charge is no lesse iniurious that the Church of England hath made no separation Concerning which you haue learned of your Martyr and Ouerseers so to speake as if before her late disclamation of Popery in Queene Elizabeths time she had not beene Her Monuments could haue taught you better and haue ledde you to her auncient Pedigree not much below the Apostolike daies and in many discents haue shew'd you not a few worthy witnesses and Patrons of Truth all which with their holy and constant of-spring it might haue pleased you to haue separated from this imputation of not separating Will you know therefore how the Church of England hath separated In her first conuersion she separated her selfe from Pagans in her continuance she separated her selfe from grosse heretiques and sealed her separation with blood in her reformation she separated her selfe from wilfull Papists by her publique profession of Truth and proclaimed hatred of errour and she daily doth separate the notoriously euil by suspensions by excommunications though not so many as yours Besides the particular separations of many from the acknowledged corruptions in iudgement profession practise All these will be auowed in spight of all contradiction with what forehead then can you say the whole Church of England hath not at all separated After all your shifts and idle tales of constitution you haue separated from this Church against the Lord not with the Lord from it If there be Christ with vs if the spirit of God in vs if Assemblies if calling by the word whatsoeuer is or is not else in the Constitution there is whatsoeuer is required to the essence of a Church no corruption eyther in gathering or continuance can destroy the truth of being but the grace of being well If Christ haue taken away his word and spirit you haue iustly subduced els you haue gone from him in vs. And when you haue al done the Separatists Idol visible Constitution will proue but an appendance of an externall forme no part of the essence of a true Church and therefore your separation no lesse vain then the ground then the Authours Lastly if our bounty should which it cannot grant that our collection was at first deepely faulty cannot the Raâ—ihabition as the Lawyers speake bee drawne backe In contracts your owne similitude a following consent iustifies an act done before consent and why not in the contract betwixt GOD and his visible Church Loe he hath confirm'd it by his gratious benedictions and as much as may bee in silence giuen vs abundant proofes of his acceptation That after-act which makes your baptisme lawfull why can it not make our Church SECTION VIII Constitution of a Church BBut for as much as Constitution is the very state of Brownisme Let vs I beseech you inquire a little into the Complexion of your Constitution Whether Physicke or Lawe or Architecture haue lent you it sure I am it is in this vse Apocryphall Neuer man vsed it thus scrupulously till your times Though what neede you the helpe of Fathers or Schooles new words must expresse new Paradoxes It is no treason to coyne tearmes What then is Constitution Your Doctor can best tell vs As the Constitution of a Common-wealth or of a City is a gathering or vniting of people together into a ciuill policy So saith he the Constitution of the Common-wealth of Israel and of the City of God the new Ierusalem is a gathering and vniting of people into a Diuine Politie The forme of which Polity is Order which Order is requisite in all actions and Administrations of the Church as the Apostle sheweth and specially in the Constitution thereof So that next vnto faith in God it is to be esteemed most necessary for all holy societies Hence Paul reioyced in the Colossians order and faith To this Constitution therefore belong a people as the matter secondly a calling or gathering together as the form wherof the Church consisteth The Constitution of the Church of England is false in both VVhy so Haâ—â— we not a people Are not those people called together To preuent this you say our Constitution is false not none VVhy false Because those people haue neither faith nor order For faith first VVho are you that dare thus boldy breake into the Closets of God the hearts of men and condemne them to want that which cannot be seene by any but Diuine eies how dare you intrude thus into the throne of your Maker Consider and conferre seriously VVhat faith is it that is thus necessarily required to each member in this Constitution Your owne Doctor shall define it Faith required to the receiuing in of members is the knowledge of the doctrine of saluation by Christ 1. Cor. 12. 9. Gal. 3. 2. Now I beseech you in the feare of God lay by a while all vnchristian preiudice and peremptory verdicts of those soules which cost Christ as much blood as your owne and tell mee ingenuously whether you dare say that not onely your Christian brethren with whom you lately conuersed but euen your forefathers which liued vnder Queene Elizabeths first confused reformation knew not the doctrine of saluation by Christ if you say they did not your 〈◊〉 iudgement shal be punished fearefully by him whose office you vsurpe As you looke to answere before him that would not breake the bruised Reede nor quench the smoaking Flaxe presume not thus aboue men and Angels If they did then had they sufficient clayme both to true Constitution and Church But this faith must be testified by obedience so it was If you thinke not so yours is not testified by loue Both were weake both were true Weakenes in any grace or worke takes not away truth Their sinnes of ignorance could no more 〈◊〉 Gods couenant with them them multiplicity of wiues with the Patriarches SECTION IX Secondly Order VVHat wanted they then Nothing but Order and not all Order but yours Order a thing requisite and excellent but let the world indge whether essentiall Consider now I beseech you in the bowels of Christ Iesus whither this be a matter for which heauen and earth should be mixed whether for want of your Order all the world must be put out of all Order and the Church out of life and being Nothing say we can be more disorderly then the confusion of your Democracy or popular state if not Anarchyâ—
Where all in a sort ordaine and excommunicate We condemne you not for no true members of the Church what can be more order 〈◊〉 by your owne confusions then the 〈◊〉 Church at Amsterdam which yet you graunt but faulty If there be disproportion and dislocation of some parts is it no true humane bodie will you rise from the feast vnlesse the dishes be set on in your owne fashion Is it no City if there be mud-walles halfe-broken low Cottages vnequally built no state house But your order hath more essence then you can expresse and is the same which Politicians in their trade call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an incorporating into one common ciuill body by a voluntary vnion and that vnder a lawfull gouernment Our Church wants both wherein there is both constraint and false office Take your owne resemblance and your owne asking Say that some tyrant as Basilius of Russia shall forceably compell a certaine number of subiects into Mosco and shall hold them in by an awfull Garison forcing them to new lawes and Magistrates perhappes hard and bloody They yeeld and making the best of all liue together in a cheerefull communion with due commerce louing conuersation submissiue execution of the inioyned lawes In such case Whether is Mosco a true City or not Since your Doctor cytes Aristotle let it not irke him to learne of that Philosopher who can teach him that when Clisthenes had driuen out the Tyrants from Athens and set vp a new Gouernement and receiued many strangers and bondmen into the Tribes it was doubted not which of them were citizens but whither they were made Citizens vniustly If you should finde a company of true Christians in vtmost India would you stand vpon tearmes and inquire how they became so VVhiles they haue what is necessary for that heauenly profession what need your curiosity trouble it selfe with the meanes SECTION X. Constraint requisite YOu see then what an idle plea constraint is in the Constitution of a City the ground of all your exception But it is otherwise in Gods Citie the Church why then doth his Doctor shippe parallell these two And why may not euen constraint it selfe haue place in the lawfull constitution or reformation of a Church Did not Manisses after his comming home to God charge and commaund 〈◊〉 to serue the Lord God of Israel Did not worthy Iosiah when he had made a couenant before the Lord cause all that were found in Ierusalem and Beniamin to stand to it and compelled all that were found in Israel to serue the Lord their God What haue Queene Elizabeth or King Iames done more or what other Did not Asa vpon Obeds prophesie gather both Iudae and Beniamin and al the strangers from Ephraim Manasses and Simeon and enact with them that whosoeuer would not seeke the Lord God should be slaine What meanes this perueâ—snesse You that teach we may not stay Princes leasure to reforme will you not allow Princes to vrge others to reforme What crime is this that men were not suffered to be open Idolaters that they were forced to yeeld submission to Gods ordinances Euen your owne teach that Magistrates may compell infidelles to heare the doctrine of the Church and Papists you say elsewhere though too roughly are infidells But you say not to be members of the Church Gods people are of the willing sort True Neither did they compell them to this They were before entred into the visible Church by true Baptisme though miserably corrupted They were not now initiated but purged Your 〈◊〉 Doctor 〈◊〉 vs from Bernard that faith is to be 〈…〉 to bee compelled yet let him 〈◊〉 that the guests must bee compelled to come in though not to eat when they are come Compelled not by perswasions for these were the first inuitationâ— therfore by further meanes Though this conceit hath no place with vs where men were vrged not to receiue a new faith but to performe the old to abandon that wicked Idolatry which had defiled them and to entertaine but that truth which the very power of their Baptisme challenge that their hand But this was the old song of the Donatists Far bee it from our conscience to compell any man to the faith If God did not draw vs and by asweat violence bend our wils to his when should we follow him Either you haue not read or not cared for the practise of the auncient Church and Augustines resolution concerning the sharpe penalties imposed vpon the Donatists would God none of your kindred in his time with his excellent defences of these proceedings SECTION XI Constitution of the Church of England BVt tell vs then what should haue beene done The Gospell should haue beene euery where preached All conuerâ—s should haue been singled out and haue giâ—en a voluntary and particular confession of their faith and repentance I answere you The Gospell was long and worthily preached in the dayes of King Edward enough to yeeld both Martyres to the stake and professors to the succeeding times Were their holy Sermons their learned writings and their pretious blood which was no lesse vocall of no force Afterwards in the beginning of famous Queene Elizabeths reparation what confluence was there of zealous Confessors returning now from their late exile How painefully and Diuinely did they labour in this Vineyard of God How did they with their many holy Partners which had shrowded themselues during that storme of persecution in a dangerous secrecy spread themselues ouer this land and each-where drew flockes of hearers to them and with them Is all this nothing to their ingrateful posterity If you murmure that there was no more take heede least you forget there were so many for vs wee doe seriously blesse God for these and triumph in them All this premised now comes a Christian Edict from the State that euery man shall yeelde obedience to this truth wherein they had beene thus instructed It was performed by the most whose submission what was it but an actuall profession of their faith and repentance And since such was their face who dares iudge of their hearts More then this if euer can bee shewed absolutely necessary in such a state of the Church to the very Constitution and repaired Beeing thereof I do here vow neuer to take the Church of England for my mother We know and grieue to see how scornfully your whole Sect and amongst the rest your resolute Dr. turnes ouer these gratious entrances and proceedings of these two royall and blessed Reformers and whom should he finde to raise his scoffes vpon but that Saint-like Historian Master Foxe Now saies Master Foxe a new face of things began to appeare as it were in a Stage new Players comming in the olde thrust out Now saieth your Doctors Comment new Bishoppes came in as Players vpon the olde Stage of the Popish Church as if the Church were no whit altered
but the men Shall we say this is too much malice or too little wit and conscience Euen in the Lord Protectors daies that holy man reports that after the Scriptures restored and Masses abolished greater thinges followed these softer beginnings in the reformation of the Churches Learned and godly Diuines were called for from forraine parts a separation was made though not so much willing as wilfull of open and manifest aduersaries from Professors whether true or dissembled Commissioners were appointed to visite euery seuerall Diocesse Euery Bench of them had seuerall godly and learned Preachers to instruct the people in the truth and to disswade them from Idolatry and Superstition The Popes Supremacy not thrust but taught downe All wil-worshippe whatsoeuer oppugned by publique Sermons Images destroyed Pilgrimages forbidden the Sacraments inioyned to be reuerently and holily ministred Ecclesiastical persons reformed in life in doctrine Processions laide downe Presence and attendance vpon Gods word commanded the holy expending of Sabboth dayes appointed due preparation to Gods table called for set times of teaching inioyened to Bishoppes and other Ministers all shrâ—nes and Monuments of Idolatry required to be vtterly taken from publique and priuate houses All this before his Parliament By that all bloody lawes against Gods trueth were repealed zealous Preachers encouraged so as saith that worthy Historian God was much glorified and the people in many places greatly edified What neede I goe further then this first yeare Heare this and be ashamed and assure your selues that no man can euer read those holy Monuments of the Church but must needes spit at your separation After that sweete and hopefull Prince what his renowmed sister Queene Elizabeth did the present times doe speake and the future shall speake when all these Murmurers shall sleepe in the dust The publique disputations zealous Preachings restaurations of banished religion and men extirpations of Idolatry Christian lawes wise and holy proceedings and renewed couenants with God are still fresh in the memories of some and in the eares of all so as all the world wil iustly say you haue lost shame with truth in denying it Yea to fetch the matter yet further If the Reader shall looke backe to the daies of their Puissant Father King Henry the eight he cannot but acknowledge especially during the time of Queene Anne and before those sixe bloody Articles a true face of a Church though ouer-spreade with some morphue of corruptions and some commendable forwardnesse of Reformation for both the Popes Supremacy was abrogated the true doctrine of Iustification commonly taught confidence in Saints vntaught the vanity of Pardons declared worshippe of Images and Pilgrimages forbidden learned and godly Ministers required their absences and mis-demeaners inhibited the Scriptures translated publickly and priuately inioyned to be read and receiued the word of God commaunded to be sincerely and carefully preached and to all this holy Master Foxe addeth for my conclusion such a vigilant care was then in the King and his Councell how by all wayes and meanes to redresse Religion to reforme errours to correct corrupt customes to helpe ignorance and to reduce the mis-leadings of Christs Flocke drowned in blinde Popery superstitious customes and Idolatry to some better forme of Reformation whereunto he prouided not onely these Articles Precepts Iniunctions aboue specified to inform the rude people but also procured the Bishops to helpe forward the same cause of decayed doctrine with their diligent preaching and teaching of the people Goe now say that suddenly in one day by Queen Elizabeths trumpet or by the sound of a Bell in the name of Antichrist all were called to the Church Goe say with your Patriarch that wee erect Religions by Proclamations and Parliaments Vpon these premises I dare conclude and doubt not to maintaine against all Separatists in the world that England to goe no higher had in the daies of King Henry the eight a true visible Church of God and so by consequent their succeeding seede was by true Baptisme iustly admitted into the bosome therof and therefore that euen of them without any further profession Gods Church was truly constituted If you shall say that the following Idolatrie of some of them in Queene Maries daies excluded them Consider how hard it will be to prooue that Gods couenant with any people is presently disanulled by the sinnes of the most whether of ignorance or weakenesse and if they had herein renounced GOD yet that GOD also mutually renounced them To shut vppe your Constitution then There is no remedy Eyther you must goe forward to Anabaptisme or come backe to vs All your Rabbines caâ—not aunswere that charge of your rebaptized brother If wee bee a true Church you must returne If wee bee not as a false Church is no Church of GOD you must rebaptise If our Baptisme be good then is our constitution good Thus your owne Principles teach The outward parte of the true visible Church is a Vowe Promise Oathe or Couenant betwixt GOD and the Saints Now I aske Is this made by vs in Baptisme or noe If it be then we haue by your Confession for so much as is outwardly required a true visible Church so your separation is vniust If it be not then you must rebaptise for the first Baptisme is a nullity and if ours be not you were neuer thereby as yet entred into any visible Church SECTION XII The Aunswerers title AS for the title of Ring-leader wherewith I stiled this pamphleter if I haue giuen him too much honour in his Sect I am sory Perhappes I should haue put him pardon an homely but in this sense not vnusall word in the taile of this Traine Perhaps I should haue endorsed my Letter to Master Smith and his shadow So I perceiue he was Whatsoeuer whither he lead or follow God meetes with him If hee lead Behold I will come against them that prophesie false dreames saith the Lorde and doe tell them and cause my people to erre by their lies If he come behinde Thou shalt not follow a multitude in euill saith God If either or both or neither If he will goe alone Woe vnto the foolish Prophets saith the Lord which follow their owne spirits and haue seene nothing Howsoeuer your euill shall bee reproued by the light of Gods word Your coniâ—â—ction I cannot promise your reproofe I dare If therupon you shall finde grace to see and heale your errours we should with all brotherly humblenesse attend on foote vpon your returne on Horse-backe but if the sway of your mis-resolued conscience bee heady and vnresistable and your retyring hopelesse these not solide reasons these pretty pamphlets these formall flourishes shall one day be fearefull and materiall euidences against you before that awefull Iudge which hath already sayd That iudgements are prepared for the scorners and stripes for the backe of fooles SECTION XIII The Apostacie of the Church of England I professed
worse then the Infidell And the olde vulgar can giue no worse tearme to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where he findes it yea to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rebels themselues What doth this brand to a Church not Christian onely though you denie it but famous Of whom is truely verefied after all your splene that which the spirit writes to the Angel of Ephesus Laborasti non Defecisti Say if you can what Article of the Christian and Apostolike faith haue we renounced What heresie maintaine wee Wherein haue wee runne from the tents of Christ What hold we that may not stand with life in Christ and saluation VVe challenge all men and Diuels in this point for our innocence Distinguish for starke shame of so foule a word or which is better eate it whole and let not this blemish be left vpon your soule and name in the Records of God and the world that you once said of a Church too good for yours Drencht in apostacy If we crie Peace whiles you crie Apostasie surely we flatter whiles you rayle betwixt these two dangerous extremes wee know an wholsome meane so to approue that we foster not security so to censure that we neither reuile nor separate and in one word to doe that which your Pastor could exhort the separators from your Separation for euen this Schisme hath Schismes If we should mislike yet to rest in our differences of iudgement and notwithstanding peaceably to continue with the Church Had you taken this course you should neither haue needed to expect our pitie nor to complaine of our cruelty Surely whether our loue be cruell or not your hatred is whereof take heede least you heare from old Iacob Cursed be their wrath for it was fierce and their rage for it was cruell How can you expect compassion when you breath fire and write gall Neuer mention the fury of others indignation till the venemous and desperate writings of Barrow and Greenwood bee evther worne out with time or by the Thunder-bolts of your not rare censures be strucke downe to hell whence their maliciousnesse came I forbeare to recapitulate how much rather had I helpe to burie then to reuiue such vn-christian exprobrations SECTION XIIII The Separatists acknowledgements of the graces of the Church of England INgratitude and vnnaturalnesse to your Mother is obiected In that you flie from her yea now wo is me that you spit in her face and mark her for an harlot VVould God the accusation were as farre from being iust as from being triuiall Yet perhappes you intend it not in the lightnesse of this charge but the commonnesse you haue caused me to smart for my charity yet I forbeare it not VVhat is your defence That you haue done her no wrong to your knowledge Modestly spoken but doubtfully we know your wrong but we know not your knowledge it is well if your wrong be not wilful an ignorant wrong is both in more hope of amends and of mercie But is not this caution added rather for that you thinke no hard measure can possibly be a wrong to so vile a Church I aske and would be denied No you doe freely and with all thankefulnesse acknowledge euery good thing she hath VVhatsoeuer you doe to vs I will not any more in fauour of you wilfully wrong my selfe you haue bidden men now to take you as a complete Separatist and speake this for your selfe and yours Let the Reader now iudge whether the wrong of your Sect be wilful and acknowledgment of our good free and thankfull Your first false-named Martyr shall giue the first witnes of the titles of our Church VVho saith he that were not drunke and intoxicate with the VVhores cuppe could affirme this confuse Babell these cages of vncleane Birds these prisons of foule and hatefull spirits to be the Spouse of Christ And else-where he calles the people of our Church Goates and Swine Is this any wrong to your knowledge The same Author They haue not saith he in their Churches any one thing in their practise and proceedings not one pin naile or hooke according to the true patterne Doe you not now freely and thankefully acknowledge our Churches good things VVhat is more ordinary with him and his brother in euill I. Greenewood then to call our worthie Ministers Baals Priests Cainites the marked seruants of Antichrist sellers of the VVhores wares worshippers of the Beast Is this yet any wrong to your knowledge Pastor Iohnson sticks not to say that the Ministerie and worshippe of the Church of England were taken out of the VVhores cuppe and plainely stiles our Church as which of you doe not daughter of the great Babilon that mother of whoredomes and abhominations of the earth yet more That Hierarchy Worshippe Constitution and Gouernement which they professe and practise being directly Antichristian doe vtterly destroy true Christianity so as their people and Churches cannot in that estate be iudged true Christians Do you not now freely and thankfully acknowledge our good things What can any Diuell of hell say worse against vs then this That we are no Christians Or what good can there be in vs if no true Christianity If wee denied euery Article of the Christian Creed if we were Mahumetans as your good Pastor stickes not to compare vs if the most damned Heretiques vnder heauen what could he say but no Christians Your teacher and Pastour which is a wonder agree For your Doctor Ainsworth makes this one head of his poysonous Counterpoyson that Christ is not the head Mediatour Prophet Priest King of the Church of England You their Disciple are not yet promoted to this height of immodestie yet what are your good things Euen to you we are Apostates Traytors Rebels Babylonish This is well for a learner Hereafter if you will heare me keepe our good things to your selfe and report our euill Yea that your vncharitablenesse may bee aboue all examples monstrous You doe not onely denie vs any interest in the Church of Christ but exclude vs what you may from all hope and possibilitie of attaining the honour of Christendome For when a godly Minister protested to Master Barrow the trueth of his ministerie vpon the approbation also of his people hee receiued this answere from him Though you had such allowance it could nothing auaile but rather ouerthrow your Ministerie they being as yet vngathered to Christ and therefore neither may not in this estate chuse them a Minister nor any exercise a Ministerie vnto them without hainous sacriledge O desperate iudgement we neither are Christians nor can be No Christianitie without faith no faith without the Ministerie of the word no word to vs without sacriledge What are we that the very offer of bringing vs to God should be criminall These are your acknowledgements of our good Who haue learned of your Pastour to kisse and kill all at once to
blesse and curse with one breath your mercies are cruell SECTION XV. The vnnaturalnesse of some principall Separatists BVT who can wonder at your vnnaturalnesse to the Church that heares what measure you mete to your owne Errour is commonly ioyned with cruelty The outragious demeanures of the Circumcelliones in Augustines time and more then barbarous tyranny of the Arrians before him are wel knowen by all Histories and not enough by any God forbid that I should compare you to these Heare rather of Nouatus the father of a not-vnlike Sect of whom Cyprian reports that he would neither bestow bread on his father aliue nor buriall on him deade but suffred him both to starue and stinke in the street and for his wife least he should be mercifull to any hee spurned her with his heele and slew his owne childe in her bodie What need I seeke so far I grieue to thinke and report that your owne Pastor hath paralleled this cruelty His owne brother which is no lesse sauadge though one of your Sect is the publick accuser and condemner of him in this crime to all the world who after a pittifull relation of his eight yeares quarrels with him and foure years excommunication in his Epistle before a large volume to this purpose writes thus After all these hath not our kind carefull and old Father come a long iourney to make Peace Hath he not laboured with you the Elders and the Church to bring you to peace Hath hee not vsed the helpe and counsell of the Reformed Churches herein Yet will you not be reclaimed but adding that sinne aboue all haue also â—â—â—strously excommunicated your father the peace-seeker c. and straight How oft desired he you as if he had beene the sonne and you the father euen with teares that you would repent In a word how came he and I to your doore shewing you that it might bee vpon his departing you should see his face no more c. Yet you forced him by your ill dealing still to leaue vpon you his curse and all the curses writen in Gods booke against vnthankfull and disobedient children Thus farre a brother concerning a brother against father and brother Other strangely-vnkind vsages of both I had rather leaue to the discouery of Master White and this miserable plaintiue who haue written enough to make an enemy ashamed But whereupon was all this fearefull broile in a pure Church For nothing but a little lace and whale-bone in his wiues sleeue The Troian warre could not be slaundered with so weighty a beginning As for your Elder Daniel Studly whom your Pastor so much extolleth if Master Whites Apostasie may be your shift against his relation let him speake who should haue beene a fellow-elder with him banished for your trueth though erected by your censure Marke saith G. Iohns of this Studly how the Lord hath iudged him with vnnaturalnesse to his owne children suffering them to lie at other mens feete and hang on other mens hands whiles he his wife and her daughter fared daintily and went prankingly in apparell euen in this place of banishment It is no ioy to me to blazen these or your othersins would God they were fewer and lesse in vs all Onely it was fit the world should know as how vndutiful you are to your common parent so that Father Brother Children beare part with your mother in these your cruelties SECTION XVI what the Separatists thinke themselues beholden to the Church of England for IF then such bee the good things of our Church What good can you acknowledge to haue receiued from her Nothing giues what it hath not A Baptisme perhaps Alas but no true Sacrament you say yea the seale of gracelesnesse and mischiefe As little are you beholden to the Church for that as the Church to you for your good acceptation Why are you not rebaptized You that cannot abide a false Church why doe you content your selues with a false Sacrament especially since our Church being not yet gathered to Christ is no Church and therefore her baptisme a nullity What else doe you owe to the liberality of this Step-dame You are close your Pastor is lauish for you both who thus speakes of himselfe and you and vs I confesse that whiles I was Minister in your Church of England I stood in an Antichristian estate yet doubt I not but euen then being of the Elect of God I was partaker through faith of the mercy of God in Christ to saluation but as for you Master Iacob and his fellow-Christians whiles you thus remaine you cannot in that estate approue your selues to haue the promise of saluation Behold here the Church of England gaue you but an Antichristian estate if God giue secret mercy what is that to her Gods superabundant grace dooth neither abate ought of her Antichristianisme nor moue you to follow him in couering and passing by the manifold enormities in our Church wherewith those good things are inseparably commingled Your owne mouth shall condemne you Doth God passe ouer our enormites and doe you stick yea separate Doth his grace couer them and do you display them Haue you learned to be more iust then your Maker Or if you be not aboue his iustice Why are you against his mercie God hath not disclaimed vs by your owne confession you haue preuented him If Princes leisures may not be stayed in reforming yet shall not Gods in reiecting Your ignorance inwrapped you in our errours his infinite wisedome sees them and yet his infinite mercie forbeares them so might you at once haue seene disliked stayed If you did not herein goe contrary to the courses of our common God how happy should both sides haue beene yea how should there be no sides How should wee be more inseparably commingled then our good and euill But should you haue continued still in sinne that grace might haue abounded God forbid you might haue continued here without sinne saue your owne and then grace would no lesse haue abounded to you then now your sinne abounds in not continuing What neede you to surfet of another mans Trencher Others sinnes neede no more to infect you then your graces can sanctifie them As for your further light suspect it not of God suspect it to be meere darkenesse and if the light in you be darknesse how great is that darkenesse What so true and glorious a light of God and neuer seene til now No worlds times Churches Patriarches Prophets Apostles Martyrs Fathers Doctors Christians euer saw this truth looke foorth besides you vntill you Externall light was Gods first creature and shall this spirituall light whereby all Churches should be discerned come thus late Mistrust therefore your eyes and your light and feare Isayes woe and the Iewes miserable disappointment we wait for light but loe it is darkenesse for brightnesse but we walke in obscuritie SECTION XVII
The Motherhood of the Church of England how farre it obligeth vs. THE Church of England is your mother to her small comfort she hath borne you and repented Alas you haue giuen her cause to powre out Iobs curses vpon your birth-day by your not onely forsaking but cursing her Stand not vpon her faults which you shall neuer proue capitall Note only the best Parent might haue brought forth are bellious sonne to be stoned What then Doe we preferre duetie to piety and so plead for our holy mother Church that we neglect our heauenly Father yea offend him See what you say It must needes be an holy mother that cannot be pleased without the displeasure of God A good wife that opposes such an husband a good sonne that vpbraides this vniustly Therfore is she a Church your mother holy because she bred you to God cleaues to him obeyes his commaundements and commaunds them And so farre is shee from this desperate contradiction that she voweth not to hold you for her sonne vnlesse you honour God as a father It is a wilful slaunder that you could not but heynously transgresse vnder her I dare take it vpon my soule that all your transgression which you should necessarily haue incurred by her obedience is nothing so heynous as your vnchariblenesse in your censures and disobedience Conscience is a common plea euen to those you hate we inquire not how strong it is but how well informed not whether it suggest this but whereuppon To goe against the conscience is sinne to follow a mis-informed conscience is sinne also If you do not the first we know you are faulty in the second He that is greater then the conscience will not take this for an excuse But wherein should haue beene this transgression so vnauoidable heynous against conscience First in the want of many Ordinances to which we are most strictly bound both by Gods word and our owne necessities SECTION XVIII The want of pretended Ordinances of God whether sinfull to vs and whether they are to be set vp without Princes CAn you thinke this hangs well together You should here want many of Gods ordinances why should you want them Because you are not suffered to inioy them who hinders it Superior powers Did euer man willfully and heynously offend for wanting of that which he could not haue What hath conscience to doe with that which is out of our power Is necessity with you become a sinne and that haynous Dauid is driuen to lurke in the wildernesse and forced to want the vse of many diuine Ordinances It was his sorrow not his transgression He complaines of this but doth he accuse himselfe of sinne Not to desire them had beene sinne no sin to be debat'd them Well might this be Sauls sin but not his Haue you not sinnes enow of your owne that you must needes borrow of others But I see your ground You are bound to haue these Ordinances and therefore without Princes yea against them so it is your transgression to want them in spight of Magistrates Gaudentius the Donatist taught you this of old And this is one of the Hebrew songs which Master Bâ—rrow sings to vs in Babylon that we care not to make Christ attend vpon Princes and to be subiect to their lawes and gouernment and his Predecessor the roote of your sect tels vs in this sense the kingdome of heauen must suffer violence and that it comes not with obseruation that men may say Loe the Parliament or loe the Bishops decrees and in the same treatise The Lords kingdome must wait on your policy forsooth and his Church must be framed to your ciuill state c. Iust as that Donatist of old in Augustine Quid vobis c. What haue you to doe with worldly Emperours and as that other in Optatus Quid Imperatori cum Ecclesia What hath the Emperour to doe with the Church Yea your Martyr feares not to teach vs that Gods seruants being as yet priuate men may and must together build his Church though all the Princes of the world should prohibit the same vpon paine of death Belike then you should sin haynously if you should not be rebels The question is not whether we shold aske leaue of Princes to be Christians but whether of Christian Princes wee should aske leaue to establish circumstances of gouernment God must be serued thogh we suffer our blood is wel bestowed vpon our maker but in patience not in violence Priuate profession is one thing Publique reformation iniunction is another Euery man must doe that in the maine none may doe this but they of whom God saies I haue said ye are Gods and of them There is difference betwixt Christian and Heathen Princes If at least al Princes were not to you Heathen If these should haue beene altogether stayed for Religion had come late If the other should not be stayed for Religion would soone be ouer layd with confusion Lastly the body of Religion is one thing the skyrts of outward gouernment another that may not depend on men to be imbraced or with loyalty prosecuted these vpon those generall rules Christ both may and doe and must If you cut off but one lappe of these with Dauid you shall be touched To denie this power to Gods Deputies on earth what is it but ye take too much vpon you Moâ—es and Aaron all the Congregation is holy wherefore lift ye your selues aboue the Congregation of the Lord See if herein you come not too neere the walles of that Rome which ye so abhorre and accurse in ascribing such power to the Church none to Princes Let your Doctor tell you whether the best Israelites in the times of Abijah Asa Iehosaphat Ezekiah Iosiah tooke vpon them to reforme without or before or against their Princes Yea did Nehemiah himselfe without Artahshaht though an heathen King set vpon the walles of Gods City Or what did Zerubbabel and Ieshua without Cyrus In whose time Haggai and Zechariah prophesied indeede but built not And when contrary Letters came from aboue they laid by both Trowels and Swords They would bee Iewes still they would not be rebels for God Had those Letters inioyned Swines flesh or Idolatry or forbidden the vse of the law those which now yeelded had suffered and at once testified their obedience to authority and piety to him that sittes in the assembly of these earthen Gods I vrge no more Perhaps you are more wise or lesse mutinous you might easily therefore purge your conscience from this sinne of wanting what you might not perforce enioy Say that your Church should imploy you backe to this our Babylon for the calling out of more Proselites you are intercepted imprisoned Shall it bee sinne in you not to heare the Prophesies at Amsterdam The Clinke is a lawfull excuse If your feete be bound your conscience is not bound In these
be iudge So doe we value your detestation as you his It were well for you if you eschued these enormities lesse and hell more Your sinfull subiection to these vnchristian humours will proue more fearefull then to our Antichristian enormities SECTION XXII The Church of England is the Spouse of Christ. SHE may be your Mother you say and not the Lords Wife It is a good Mother that hath Children and no husband Why did you not call her plaine whore Your old Embleme is As is the Mother so is the Daughter These are the modest circumlocutions of a good sonne who cares not to proue himselfe a bastard that his mother may bee mark't for an Harlot Be you a true Lo-ammi but England shall neuer I hope proue an Apostate Israel We haue no Calues in our Dan and Bethel none of Ieroâ—oams Idolatry VVee haue still called God Ishi and neuer burnt incense to Baalim It is your sinagogue that hath fallen away from vs as Israel from Iuda But these children were bidden to plead Gods command shields them from the note of vngracious Abraham must sacrifice his sonne and this sonne must condemne his Mother shew vs either our equall desert or your equall warrant VVhere hath God proclamed our Church not his By whose hand hath he published her diuorce You haue shamed her wombe not she her bed not God her demeanure Your tongues are your owne who can forbid you VVe know you will plead and excuse and censure and defend till all the world be weary we may pray with Hierome to this sense that of the Psalmist Increpa Domine bestias calami yet wee see your pens tongues and presses busie and violent I will not apply to you that which Augustine of his Donatists Though truth compell you to be dumbe yet iniquitie will not suffer you to be silent But if you write whole Marts and worlds of volumes you shall neuer be able either to iustifie your innocence or excuse your fault In the meane time the noyse of your contentions is so great that your truth cannot bee heard Learned Iunius and our learnedst Diuines and neighbour Churches haue oft heard your clamors neuer your truth So little haue you of this and so much of the other that we are ready to wish as he of old either our selues deafe or you dumb SECTION XXIII How the Church of England hath separated from Babylon THe spirit of your Proto-Martyr would hardly haue digested this Title of Babylon Mother of Gods people a murdering Step-mother rather She cannot be a Mother of Chilâ—ren to God and no Church of God Notwithstanding Gods people would he say may be in her not of her So Babylon bore them not but Sion in Babylon But I feare not your excesse of charity You fly to your Doctors challenge and aske what we say against you for vs which Rome wil not say for her selfe against vs Will you iustifie this plea of Rome or not If you will why doe you reuile her If you will not why doe you obiect it Heare then what we say both to you and them our enemies both and yet the enemies of our enemies First we disclaime and defie your Pedigree and theirs The Church of Rome was neuer our Mothers Mother Our Christian faith came not from the seuen-hilles Neither was deriued either from Augustine the Monke or Pope Gregory Britanny had a worthy Church before either of them look't into the world It is true that the ancient Roman Church was Sister to ours here was neare kindred no dependance And not more consanguinitie then while she continued faithfull Christian loue Now she is gone a whoring her chast Sister iustly spitteth at her yet euen still if you distinguish as your learned Antagonist hath taught you betwixt the Church and Papacy Shee acknowledges her Sisterhood though she refraines her coÌ„uersation as she hath many slauish and factious abettors of her knowne and grosse errors to whom we deny this title affirming them the body whereof Antichrist is the head the great whore and mother of abhominations so againe how many thousands hath shee which retayning the foundation according to their knowledge as our learned Whitakers had wont to say of Bernard follow Absolom with a simple heart all which to reiect from Gods Church were no better theÌ„ presumptuous cruelty It were well for you before God the world if you could as easiely wash your hands of vn-naturall impiety and trecherousnesse as we of bastardy vniust sequestration There can be no bastardy where was neuer any motherhood wee were nephews to that Church neuer sons vnlesse as Rome was the Mother citie of the world so by humane institution we suffered our selues to bee ranged vnder her Patriarchall authority as being the most famous Church of the West a matter of courtesie and pretended Order no necessity no spirituall obligation As for our sequestration your mouth and theirs may be stopt with this answer As all corrupted Churches so some things the Church of Rome still holds aright a true God in three persons true Scriptures though with addition a true Christ though mangled with foule and erroneous consequences true Baptisme though shamefully deformed with rotten traditions many other vndenyable truths of God some other things and too many her wicked Apostasie hath deuised and maintained abhominably amisse the body of her Antichristianisme grosse errours and by iust sequel heresies their Popes supremacy infallibility illimitation transubstantiation idolatrous and superstitious worshippe and a thousand other of this branne In regard of all these latter we professe to the world a iust and auncient separation from this false faith and deuotion of the Romish Church which neither you will say nor they shall euer proue faulty yea rather they haue in all these separated from vs who stil irrefragably professe to hold with the auncient from whom they are departed In regard of the other we are stil with them holding and embracing with them what they holde with Christ neither will you I thinke euer prooue that in these we should differ As for our communion they haue separated vs by their proude and foolish excommunications if they had not wee would iustly haue begunne from their Tyranny and Antichristianisme from their miserable Idolatrie but as for the bodie of their poore seduced Christians which remaine amongst them vpon the true foundation as doubtlesse there are thousands of them which laugh at their Pardons Miracles Superstitions and their trust in merites reposing only vpon Christ we adhere to them in loue and pitty and haue testified our affection by our blood ready vpon any iust call to doe it more neither would feare to ioyne with them in any true seruice of our common God But the full discourse of this point that honourable and learned plesses hath so forstalled that whatsoeuer 〈◊〉 say would seeme but borrowed Vnto his rich Treatise I referre my Reader for full satisfaction
can they deny this right to persons qualified besides common graces with wisedome learning experience authority Eyther their Bishoppricke makes them no Christians a position which of all the world besides this Secte would be hissed at or else their handes imposed are thus farr by their rules of Separatists effectual Now your best course is like to an Hare that runnes backe from whence she was started to flye to your first hold No Church therefore no Ministery So now not the Church hath deuised the Ministery but the Ministery hath deuised the Church I follow you not in that idle Circle Thence you haue beene hunted already But now since I haue giuen account of ours I pray you tell me seriously Who deuised your Office of Ministery I dare say not Christ not his Apostles not their Successors What Church euer in the world can be produced vnlesse in case of extremity for one turn whose conspiring multitude made themselues ministers at pleasure what rule of Christ prescribes it What Reformed Church euer did or doth practise it VVhat example warrants it where haue the inferiors laid hands vpon their Superiors VVhat Congregation of Christendome in all records affoorded you the necessary patterne of an vnteaching Pastor or an vnfeeding Teacher It is an old policy of the faulty to complaine first Certainely there was neuer Popish Legend a more errand deuise of man then some parts of this ministery of yours so much gloried in for sincere correspondence to the first institution SECTION XXVIII Confused Communion of the prophane YOVR scornefull exception at the confused communion of the prophane multitude sauors strong of a Pharisee who thought it sinne to conuerse cum terrae filijs the base vulgar and whose very Phylacteries did say Touch me not for I am cleaner then thou This multitude is prophane you say and this communion confused If some be prophane yet not all for then could be no confusion in the mixture If some be not prophane why do you not loue them as much as you hate the other If all maine truthes be taught amongst some godly some prophane why will you more shunn those prophane then cleaue to those truths and those godly If you haue duely admonished him and detested and bewailed his sinne what is another mans prophanenesse to you If prophanenesse be not punished or confusion be tolerated it is their sinne whome it concerneth to redresse them If the Officers sinne must we runne from the Church It is a famous and pregnant protestation of God by Ezechiell The righteousnesse of the righteous shall be vpon him and the wickednesse of the wicked shall be vpon himself And if the fathers sower Grapes cannot hurt the childrens teeth how much lesse shall the neighbours But whither will you runne from this communion of the prophane The same fault you find with the Dutch and French yea in your owne How well you haue auoided it in your separation let Master White George Iohnson Master Smith be sufficient witnesses whose plentifull reports of your knowne vncleannesses smothered mischiefes malitious proceedings corrupt packings communicating with knowne offenders bolstering of sinns and willing conniuences as they are shamefull to relate so might well haue stopt your mouth from excepting at our confused Communion of the prophane SECTION XXIX Our Errours intermingled with Truth HOw many and grieuous errors are mingled with our Truths shall appeare sufficiently in the sequell If any want let it be the fault of the accuser it is enough for the Church of Amsterdam to haue no errors But ours are grieuous Name them that our shame may be equall to your griefe So many they are and so grieuous that your Martyr when he was vrged to instance could find none but our opinion concerning Christs descent into hell and except hee had ouer-reached not that Call you our Doctrines some generall truthes Looke into our Confessions Apologies Articles and compare them with any with all other Churches and if you finde a more particular found Christian absolute profession of all fundamētall truths in any Church since Christ ascēded into heauen renounce vs as you do we wil seperate vnto you But these truths are not soundly practised Let your Pastor teach you that if errours of practise should be stood vpon there could bee no true Church vpon earth Pull out your owne beame first we willingly yeeld this to be one of your truths that no truth can sanctifie errour That one heresie makes an Hereticke but learne withall that euery error doth not pollute all truthes That there is hay and stubble which may burne yet both the foundation stand and the builder be saued Such is ours at the worst why doe you condemne where God will saue No Scripture is more worne with your tongus and pennes then that of the leauen 1. Cor. 5. 6. If you would compare Christs leauen with Pauls you should satisfie your selfe Christ sayes the kingdome of heauen is as leauen Paule saies grosse sin is leauen Both leauens the whole lumpe neither may be taken precisely but in resemblance not of equalitie as he said well but of qualitie For notwithstanding the leauen of the kingdome some part you grant is vnsanctified So notwithstanding the leauen of sinne some which haue striuen against it to their vtmost are not sowred The leauening in both places must extend onely to whom it is intended the subiects of regeneration in the one the partners of sinne in the other So our Sauiour saith Yee are the salt of the earth Yet too much of the earth is vnseasoned The trueth of the effect must bee regarded in these speeches not the quantity It was enough for Saint Paule to shew them by this similitude that grosse sins where they are tollerated haue a power to infect others whether it be as Hierome interprets it by ill example or by procurement of iudgements and thereupon the incestuous must be cast out All this tends to the excōmunicating of the euill not to the seperating of the good Did euer Paule say if the incestuous be not cast out seperate from the Church Show vs this and wee are yours Else it is a shame for you that you are not ours If Antichrist holde many truths and we but many we must needes bee proud of your prayses We holde all his truths and haue showed you how we hate all his forgeries no lesse then you hate vs Yet the mistery of iniquity is still spun in the Church of England but with a siner threed So fine that the very eyes of your malice cannot see it yet none of our least motes haue escaped you Thankes bee to our good God wee haue the great mistery of godlinesse so fairely and happily spunne amongst vs as all but you blesse God with vs and for vs As soone shall you finde charity and peace in your English Church as heresie in our Church of England SECTION XXX Whether
sought not rather strife then satisfaction his Maiesties speech in the Confer at Hampton Court might haue staied the course of your quarrelous pen No reasonable minde but would rest in that gratious and Royall determination Lastly Why looke you not to your owne Elders at home euen your handfull hath not auoided this crime of Non-residency What wonder is it if our world of men haue not escaped SECTION XXXIIII Our loyaltie to Princes cleared theirs questioned YOV that confesse our wisedome and honesty must now pleade for your owne your hope is not more of vs then our feare of you To depose Kings and dispose Kingdomes is a proud worke you want power but what is your will For excommunication it is cleare enough While you fully holde that euery priuate man hath as much power in this censure as the Pastor and that Princes must bee equally subiect with them to these their censures Let any man now deuise if the Brownists could haue a King how that King could stand one day vnexcommunicated Or if this censure meddle onely with his soule not with his Scepter How more then credible is it that some of your assemblies in Queene Elizabeths daies concluded that shee was not euen in our sense supreame head of the Church neither had authority to make lawes Ecclesiasticall in the Church It is well if you wil disclaime it But you know your receiued position That no one Church is superior to other No authority therefore can reuerse this Decree your will may doe it yea what better then rebellion appeares in your next clause While you accuse our loyaltie to an earthly King as treasonable to the King of the Church Christ Iesus If our loyaltie bee a sinne where is yours If we be traytors in our obedience what doe you make of him that commands it VVhether you would haue vs each man to play the Rex and erect a new gouernement or whether you accuse vs as rebels to Christ in obeying the old God blesse King Iames from such subiects But whose is that so vnsauorie weede No Bishoppe no King Know you whom you accuse let me shew you your aduersary it is King Iames himselfe in his Hampton Conference is there not now suspition in the word surely you had cause to feare that the King would proue no good subiect Belike not to Christ VVhat doe you else in the next but proclaime his opposition to the King of KINGS or ours in not opposing his As if we might say with the Israelites O Lord our God other Lords besides thee haue ruled vs If we would admit each of your Elders to bee so many Kings in the Church wee should stoope vnder Christs ordinances Shewe vs your Commission and let it appeare whether we be enemies or you vsurpers Alas you both refuse the rule of his true Deputy and set vp false Let this fearefull doome of Christ light where it is most due Euen so let thine enemies perish O Lord. SECTION XXXV Errours of Free-will c. fained vpon the Church of England GOe on to slaunder Euen that which you say you will not speake you doe speake with much spight and no truth VVhat hath our Church to doe with errours of vniuersall grace or freewill Errors which her Articles doe flatly oppose what shamelesnesse is this Is shee guilty euen of that which shee condemnes if some few priuate iudgements shall conceiue or bring forth an error shal the whole Church doe penance would God that wicked and heretical Anabaptisme did not more growe vpon you then those errours vpon vs you had more neede to defend then accuse But see Christian Reader how this man dragges in crimes vpon vs as Cacus did his Oxen VVe doe forsooth part stakes with God in our conuersion wherein in a deuised Ministery the meanes of conuersion we ll fetch 't about There may be a Ministery without a conuersion and êconuerso There may be a conuersion without a Ministery VVhere now are the stakes parted yet thus we partstakes with the Apostle that wee are Gods fellow-labourers in this great worke Hee hath separated vs to it ioyned vs with him in it it is he as we haue proued that hath deuised our Ministery yea your selfe shall proue it it is his peculiar to appoint the outward Ministerie that giues the inward grace But hath not God giuen inward grace by our outward Ministery Your hearts shall be our witnesses What will follow therfore but that our Ministerie is his peculiar appointment SECTION XXXVI Kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper OVR Kneeling you deriue like a good Herald from the errour of Transubstantiation but to set downe the descent of this pedigree will trouble you wee doe vtterly denie it and challenge your proofe How new a fiction Transubstantiation is appeares out of Berengaries recantation to Pope Nicholas The errour was then so young it had not learned to speake shew vs the same noueltie in our kneeling Till of late men held not the bread to be God of old they haue held it sacred This is the gesture of reuerence in our prayer at the receite as Master Burgesse well interpreted it not of Idolatrous adoration of the bread This was most-what in the eleuation the abolishing wherof cleares vs of this imputation you know we hate this conceit why doe you thus force wrongs vpon the innocent Neither are we alone in this vse The Church of Bohemie allowes and practises it and why is this errour lesse palpable in the wafers of Geneua If the King should offer vs his hand to kisse we take it vpon our kneees how much more when the King of heauen giues vs his sonne in these pledges But if there were not something more then iust reuerence why do we solemnely kneel at the Communion not at Baptisme Can you find no difference In this besides that there is both a more liuely and feeling signification of the thing represented we are the parties but in the other witnesses This therefore I dare boldly say that if your partner M. Smith should euer which God forbid perswade you to rebaptise your fittest gesture or any others at full age would be to receiue that Sacramentall water kneeling How glad you are to take all scraps that fall from any of ours for your aduantage would to God this obseruation of your malitious gatherings would make all our reuerend bretheren wâ—ary of their censures Surely no idolatry can be worse then that Popish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Bread and the Crucifixe striue for the hier place if we should therefore be so tyed to kneele before the bread as they are tyed to kneele before the Crucifixe their sentence were iust They adore the Crucifixe not wee the bread they pray to the Crucifixe not we to the bread they direct their deuotions at the best by the Crucifixe to their Sauiour wee doe not so by the
worshipped if you were not Yet would you not seeme a superfluous creature speake in your selfe Might not God be intirely worshipped with pure and holy worship though there were no other bookes in the world but the Scripture If yea as who can denie it that knowes what the worshippe of God meaneth VVhat then doe the Fathers and Doctors and learned Interpreters To the fire with all those curious artes and volumes as your Predecessors called them Yea let me put you in minde that God was purely and perfectly worshipped by the Apostolicke Church before euer 〈…〉 Testament was written See therefore the idlenesse of your proofes God may be serued without a prescription of prayer but if all Reformed Churches in Christendome erre not better with it The word of God is perfect and admits no addition Cursed were we if we should add ought to it Cursed were that which should be added But cursed be they that take ought from it and dare say ye shall not pray thus OVR FATHER c. Doe we offer to make our prayers Canonicall do we obtrude them as parts of Gods word VVhy cauill you thus VVhy doth the same prayer written adde to the worde which spoken addeth not Because conceiued prayer is commanded not the other But first not your particular prayer Secondly without mention either of conception or memorie God commaunds vs to pray in spirit and with the heart These circumstances onely as they are deduced from his Generals so are ours But whence soeuer it please you to fetch our Booke of publique Prayer from Rome or Hell or to what Image soeuer you please to resemble it Let moderate spirits heare what the pretious Iewell of England saith of it VVee haue come as neere as we could to the Church of the Apostles c. neither onely haue we framed our doctrine but also our Sacraments and the forme of publique prayers according to their Rites and Institutions Let no Iewe now obiect Swines-flesh to vs Hee is no iudicious man that I may omit the mention of Cranmer Bucâ—r Ridley Taylor c. some of whose handes were in it all whose voices were for it with whome one Iewell will not ouer-weigh tenne thousand Separatists SECTION XXXVIII Marriage not made a Sacrament by the Church of England HOw did confirmation escape this number how did Ordination it was your ouer-sight I feare not your charity some things seeme and are not such is this your number of our Sacraments you wil needes haue vs take in marriage into this ranke why so wee doe not you confesse call it a Sacrament as the vulgar mis-interpreting Pauls Mysterium Ep. 5. why should we not if we so esteemed it wherefore serue names but to denotate the nature of things If we were not ashamed of the opinion wee could not be ashamed of the worde No more say you did Christ and his Apostles call Baptisme and the Supper Sacraments but we doe and you with vs See now whether this clause doe not confute your last where hath Christ euer said There are two Sacraments Yet you dare say so what is this but in your sense an addition to the word yea we say flatly there are but two yet we doe you say in truth create it a Sacrament how oft and how resolutely hath our Church maintained against Rome that none but Christ immediatly can create Sacraments If they had this aduantage against vs how could wee stand How wrongfull is this force to fasten an opinion vpon our Church which shee hath condemned But wherein stands this our creation It is true the partyes to bee married and their marriage represent Christ and his Church and their spirituall vnion Beware least you strike God through our sides what hath Gods spirit said either lesse or other then this Ephe. 5. 25. 26. 27. 32. Doth he not make Christ the husband the Church his spouse Doth he not from that sweet coniunction and the effects of it argue the deere respects that should bee in marriage Or what doth the Apostle allude elesewhere vnto when he saies as Moses of Eue we are flesh of Christs flesh and bone of his bone And how famous amongst the ancient is that resemblance of Eue taken out of Adams side sleeping to the Church taken out of Christs side sleeping on the Crosse Since marriage therefore so clearely represents this mistery and this vse is holy and sacred what error is it to say that mariage is consecrated to this mistery But what is the Element the Ring These things agree not you had before made the two parties to be the matter of this Sacrament What is the matter of the Sacrament but the Element If they be the matter they are the Element and so not the Ring both cannot be if you will make the two parties to bee but the receiuers how doth all the mistery lie in their representation Or if the Ring bee the Element then all the mistery must be in the Ring not in the parties Labour to bee more perfect ere you make any more newe Sacraments but this Ring is laide vpon the seruice-booke why not For readinesse not for holinesse Nay but it is hallowed you say by the booke If it be a Sacramentall Element it rather hallowes the booke then the booke it you are not mindful enough for this trade But what exorcismes are vsed in this hallowing Or who euer held it any other then a ciuill pledge of fidelitie Then follow the wordes of consecration I pray you what difference is there betwixt hallowing and consecration The Ring was hallowed before by the booke now it must be consecrated How idlely by what wordes In the name of the Father c. These words you know are spoken after the Ring is put on was it euer heard of that a Sacramentall Element was consecrated after it was applyed see how ill your slaunders are digested by you The place is the Church the time the Lords day the minister is the actor and is it not thus in all other reformed Churches aswell as ours Behod we are not alone al Churches in the world if this wil do it are guilty of three Sacraments Tell me would you not haue marriage solemnized publiquely You cannot mislike though your founder seemes to require nothing here but notice giuen to witnesses and then to bed Well if publique you account it withall a graue and weighty businesse therefore such as must be sanctified by publike prayer What place is fitter for publicke prayer then the Church Who is fitter to offer vp the publike prayer then the Minister who should rather ioyne the parties in marriage then the publique deputie of that God who solemnly ioyned the first couple who rather then he which in the name of God may best blesse them The prayers which accompany this solemnity are parts of Gods worshippe not the contract it selfe This is a mixt action therefore compounded of Ecclesiasticall and ciuill imposed on the Minister not vpon
necessity but expedience neither essentiall to him but accidentally annexed for greater conuenience These two friuolous grounds haue made your cauill eyther very simple or very wilfull SECTION XXXIX Commutation of Penance in our Church SEe if this man be not hard driuen for accusations when hee is faine to repeate ouer the very same crime which hee largely vrged before All the world will know that you want variety when you send in these twise-sodde Coleworts Somewhat yet we finde new Commutation of Penance Our Courts would tell you that here is nothing dispensed with but some ceremonie of shame in the confession which in the greater sort is exchanged for a common benefit of the poore into a pecuniary mulct yet say they not so as to abridge the Church of her satisfaction by the confession of the offender and if you graunt the ceremony deuised by them why doe you finde fault that it is altered or commuted by them As for absolution you haue a spight at it because you sought it and were repulsed If the censures be but their owne so you hold why blame you the menaging of them in what manne◠seemes best to the authors This power is no more a limme of the Prelacy then our Prelacy is that beast in the Reuelation and our Prelacy holdes it selfe no more Saint Iohns beast then it holds you Saint Pauls beast Phil. 3. 2 SECTION XL. Oath ex officio I Aske of auricular Confession you send mee to our High Commission Court these two are much alike But here is also very absolute necessity of confession True but as in a case of iustice not of strife to cleare a truth not to obtaine absolution to a bench of Iudges not to a Priests eare Here are too many ghostly Fathers for an auricular Confession But you wil mistake it is enough against vs that men are constrained in these Courts to confesse against themselues why name you these Courts onely Euen in others also oathes are vrged not onely ex officio merclnario but nobili The honourablest Court of Starre-Chamber giues an oath in a Criminall case to the Defendant So doth the Chancerie Court of Requests Shortly to omit forraine examples how many instāces haue you of this like proceeding in the cōmon laws of this land But withal you might learn that no Enquiry Ex officio may be thus made but vpō good grounds as fame scandal vehement presumption c. going before and giuing iust cause of suspition Secondly that this proceeding is not allowed in any case of crime whereby the life or limmes of the examined partie may be endangered nor yet where there is a iust suspition of future periury vpon such inforcement Thus is the suspected wife vrged to cleare her honesty by oath Thus the Master of the house must cleare his truth Exod. 22. 8. Thus Achan and Ionathan are vrged to bee their owne accusers though not by Oath But if perhappes any sinister course be taken by any corrupt Iusticer in their proceedings must this be imputed to the Church Look you to your petty-Courts at home which some of your owne haue compared in these courses not only to the Commission-Court of England but to the Inquisition of Spaine See there your Pastor defending himselfe to be both an accuser and Iudge in the same cause See their proceedings Ex Officio without Commission and if your prisons cannot witnes it your excommunications may SECTION XLI Holy-daies how obserued in the Church of England WE haue not lost but cast away the Idolatrous shrines of Saints their daies wee retaine theirs not for worshippe of them which our Church condemneth but partly for commemoration of their high deserts and excellent examples partly for distinction indeede therefore Gods daies not theirs their praises redound to him shew vs where we implore them where wee consecrate daies to their seruice The maine end of Holy-daies is for the seruice of God and some as Socrates sets downe of olde quo se a laborum contentione relaxent for relaxation from labor if such daies may be appointed by the Church as were the Holy-daies of Purim of the dedication of the wall of Ierusalem the dedication of the Temple whose names should they rather beare though but for mere distinction then the blessed Apostles of Christ But this is a color only for you equally condemne those daies of Christs birth Ascension Circumcision Resurrection Annunciation which the Church hath beyond all memory celebrated what then is our fault We keepe these holy as the Lords daie in the same manner though not in the same degree Indeede we come to the Church and worshippe the God of the Martyrs and Saints is this yet our offence No but wee abstayne from our most lawfull labor in them True yet not in conscience of the day but in obedience to the Church If the Church shall indict a solemne fast do not you hold it contemptuous to spend that day in lawful labour notwithstanding that liberty of the sixe daies which God hath giuen Why shall that be lawfull in a case of deiection which may not in praise and exultation If you had not loued to cauil you would rather haue accepted the Apologie or excuse of our fister Churches in this behalfe then aggrauated these vncharitable pleas of your owne yet euen in this your owne Synagogue at Amsterdame if we may beleeue your owne is not altogether guiltlesse your handes are still and your shoppes shut vpon festiuall daies But we accuse you not would God this were your worst The Masters of our Courts would tell you that they would not care so much for this dispossession as that it should be done by such coniurers as your selfe SECTION XLII Our approbation of an vnlearned Ministery disproued YOur want of quarrels makes you still runne ouer the same complaints which if you redouble a thousand times will not become iust may become tedious God knowes how farre we are from approuing an vnleared Ministery The protestations of our gratious King our Bishoppes our greatest Patrons of conformity in their publique writings might make you ashamed of this bold assertion we do not allow that it should be we bewaile that it will be our number of Parishes compared with our number of Diuines will soone shew that either many Parishes must haue none or some Diuines must haue manie Congregations or too many Congregations must haue scarce Diuine-incumbents Our Dread Soueraigne hath promised a medicine for this disease But withall tels you that Ierusalem was not built all on a day The violence you speake of is commonly in case of wilful contempt not of honest and peaceable desire of further instruction or in supposall of some tolerable ability in the ministery forsaken wee doe heartily pray for labourers into this haruest we doe wish that all Israell could prophesie we publish the Scriptures we
Preach Catechize Write and Lorde thou knowest how manie of vs would doe more if we knew what more could be done for the information of thy people and remedy of this ignorance which this aduersary reproues vs to approue We doubt not but the seruice said in our Parish-Churches is as good a seruice to God as the extemporarie deuotions in your Parlors But it is an vnknowne deuotion you say Through whose fault The Readers or the Hearers or the matter Distinct reading you cannot denie to the most Parishes the matter is easie Praiers and English Scriptures if the hearers be regardlesse or in some things dull of conceite lay the fault from the seruice to the men All yours are free from ignorance free from wandering conceits we annoy you not some knowledge is no better then some ignorance and carelesnesse is no worse then mis-regard SECTION XLIII Penanâ—es inioyned in the Church of England COmming now to the Vaults of Popery I aske for their Penances and Purgatorie those Popish penances which presumptuous Confessors inioyned as satisfactorie and meritorious vpon their bold absolutions You send me to Sheet-penances and Purse-penances the one ceremonious corrections of shame inioyned and adioyned to publique confessions of vncleannes for the abasing of the offender and hate of the sinne such like as the auncient Church thought good to vse for this purpose Hence they were appointed as Tertullian speaketh in sackcloth and ashes to craue the prayers of the Church to besmeare their body with filthynesse to throwe themselues downe before Gods minister and Altar not to mention other more harde and perhaps no lesse ancient Rites and hence were those fiue stations of the Penitent whereby hee was at last receiued into the body of his wonted Communion The other a pecuniarie mulct imposed vpon some not all you foulely slaunder vs lesse hainous offences as a penaltie not as a penance I hope you denie not Sodomy Murther Robberie and which you would not theft it selfe is more deepely auenged But did euer any of ours vrge either sheet or purse as the remedy of Purgatory or inioyne them to auoide those infernall paines vnlesse we doe so our penances are not Popish and our answerer is idle SECTION XLIIII The practises of the Church of England concerning the Funerals of the dead YOur next accusation is more ingeniously malicious our Doctrine you graunt contrarie to Purgatorie but you will fetch it out of our practise that we may build that which we destroy Let vs therefore purge our selues from your Purgatorie Wee absolue men dying Excommunicate A rare practise and which yet I haue not liued to see but if Law-makers contemne rare occurrents surely accusers do not Once is too much of an euill Marke then Doe we absolue his Soule after the departure No what hath the body to doe with Purgatorie Yet for the body doe we by any absolution seeke to quit it from sinne Nothing lesse reason it selfe giues vs that it is vncapable either of sinne or pardon To lye vnburied or to be buried vnseemely is so much a punishment that the Heathens obiected it though vpon the hauocke and furie of Warre to the Christians as an argument of Gods neglect All that authoritie can do to the dead Rebell is to put his carkasse to shame and denie him the honour of seemely sepulture Thus doth the Church to those which will die in wilfull contempt Those Grecian Virgines that feared not death were yet restrained with the feare of shame after death it was a reall not imaginarie curse of Iezabel The dogges shall eate Iezabel Now the absolution as you call it by an vnproper but malicious name is nothing else but a libertie giuen by the Church vpon repentance signified of the fault of the late offender of all those externall rites of decent Funerall Death it selfe is capable of inequalitie and vnseemelinesse Suppose a iust Excommunication What reason is it that he which in his life and death would be as a Pagan should be as a Christian in his buriall What is any or all this to Purgatorie The next intimation of our Purgatorie is our Christian buriall in the place in the maner The place Holy ground the Church Church-yard c. The manner Ringing Singing Praying ouer the Corps Thus therefore you argue we burie the body in the Church or Church-yard c. therefore we hold a Purgatorie of the Soule a proofe not lesse strange then the opinion We doe neither scorne the carkasses of our friends as the old Troglodites nor with the olde Egyptians respect them more then when they were informed with a liuing soule But we keepe a meane course betwixt both vsing them as the remainders of dead men yet as dead Christians and as those which we hope one day to see glorious Wee haue learned to call no place holy in it selfe since the Temple but some more holy in their vse then others The old 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the Christians wherein their bodies slept in peace were not lesse esteemed of them then they are scorned of you Galienus thought he did them a great fauour and so they tooke it when he gaue them the liberty not only of their Churches but of their former burying-places In the same booke Eusebius commends Astyrius a noble Senatour for his care and cost of Marinus his buriall Of all these Rites of Funerall and choice of place we professe to hold with Augustine that they are onely the comforts of the liuing not helpes of the dead yet as Origen also teacheth vs we haue learned to honour a reasonable much more a Christian soule and to commit the instrument or case of it honourably to the graue All this might haue taught our answerer that wee make account of an heauen of a resurrection not of a Purgatory But we ring hallowed belles for the soule Do not those belles hange in hallowed Steeples too and do we not ring them with hallowed ropes What fancie is this If Papists were so fond of olde their folly and their belles for the most part are both out of date we call them soule-bels for that they signifie the departure of the soule not for that they helpe the passage of the soule This is mere boyes-play But wee pray over or for the dead Doe wee not sing to him also Pardon me I must needs tell you here is much spight and little wit To pray for the consummation of the glorie of all Gods elect What is it but Thy Kingdome come How vainely doe you seeke a knot in a rush while you cauil at so holy a petition Goe and learne how much better it is to call them our Brothers which are not in an harmelesse ouerweening and ouer-hoping of charity then to call them no brothers which are in a proud and censorious vncharitablenesse you cannot be content to tel an vntruth but you
must face it out Let any Reader iudge how farre our practise in this hath dissented from our doctrine would to God in nothing more Yes saith this good friend in the most other things our wordes professe our deeds denie at once you make vs hypocrites and your selues Pharises Let all the world know that the English Church at Amsterdam professeth nothing which it practiseth not we may not be so holy or so happy Generality is a notable shelter of vntruth Manie moe you say Popish deuises yet name none No you cannot Aduanced aboue al that is called God surely this is a paradoxe of slaunders you meant at once to shame vs with falshoode and to appose vs with Riddles we say to the highest whom haue wee in heauen but thee and for earth your selfe haue granted we giue too much to Princes which are earthen Gods and may come vnder Pauls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Eyther name our Deity or craue mercy for your wrong certainely though you haue not remorse yet you shall haue shame SECTION XLV The Churches still retained in England THe Maiesty of the Romish Petty-gods I truely told you was long agone with Mythra and Serapis exposed to the laughter of the vulgar you straine the comparison too farre yet we follow you Their Priests were expelled for as your Doctor yeeldeth other Actors came vpon the same Stage others in religion else it had beene no change Their Ministery and Monuments exposed to vtter scorne Their Masses their oblations their adorations their inuocations their anoylings their exorcizings their shrift their absolutions their Images roode loftes and whatsoeuer else of this kind But the Temples of those olde Heathens were demolished and raced Here is the quarrell ours stand still in their proude Maiesty Can you see no difference betwixt our Churches and their Temples The very name it selfe if at least you haue vnderstood it Kirke or Church which is nothing but an abbreuiation of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Lords house might haue taught you that ours were dedicated to God and theirs to the Diuel in their false gods Augustine answeres you as directly as if he were in my roome The Gentiles saith he to their Gods erected Temples we not Temples vnto our Martyrs as vnto Gods but memorials as vnto dead men whose spirits with God are still liuing These then if they were abused by Popish Idolatrie is there no way but downe with them downe with them to the ground Well fare the Donatists yet your olde friends they but washed the walles that were polluted by the Orthodoxe By the same token that Optatus askes them why they did not wash the bookes which ours touched and the heauens which they look't vpon What are the very stones sinfull what can be done with them The very earth where they should lie on heapes would be vncleane But not their pollution angers you more then their proud Maiesty What house can be too good for the maker of all Things As God is not affected with state so is he not delighted in basenesse If the pompe of the Temple were ceremoniall yet it leaues this morality behinde it that Gods house should be decent and what if goodly If we did put holines in the stones as you doe vncleanenesse it might be sinne to be costly Let mee tell you there may bee as much pride in a clay wall as in a carued Proude Maiestie is better then proud basenesse The stone or clay will offend in neither we may in both If you loue Cottages the auncient Christians with vs loued to haue Gods house stately as appeares by the example of that worthie Bishoppe of Alexandria and that gratious Constantine in whose daies these sacred piles began to lift vp their heads vnto this enuyed height Take you your owne choice giue vs ours let vs neither repine nor scorne at each other SECTION XLVI The Founders and Furnitures of our Churches ALl this while I feared you had beene in Popish Idolatrie now I finde you in Heathenish These our Churches are still possessed by their Flamins and Arch-Flamins I had thought none of our Temples had beene so auncient Certainely I finde but one poore tuinous building reported to haue worne out this long tyranny of time For the most you might haue read their age and their Founders in open Records But these were deriued from those surely the Churches as much as the men It is true the Flamins and what euer other heathen Priests were put down Christian Bishoppes were set vp Are these therfore deriued from those Christianity came in the roome of Iudaisme was it therefore deriued from it Before you tolde vs that our Prelacy came from that Antichrist of Rome now from the Flamins of the Heathen Both no lesse then either If you cannot bee true yet learne to be constant But what meane you to charge our Churches with carued and painted Images It is wel you write to those that know them Why did you not say wee bow our knees to them and offer incense perhaps you haue espied some old dustie statue in an obscure corner couer'd ouer with Cob-webs with halfe a face and that miserably blemished or perhappes halfe a Crucifixe inuerted in a Church-window and these you surely noted for English Idols no lesse dangerous glasse you might haue seene at Geneua a Church that hates Idolatrie as much as you doe vs What more Massing copes and Surplices some copes if you will more Surplices no Massing Search your Bookes againe you shall finde Albes in the Masse no Surplices As for Organ-musicke you should not haue fetch 't it from Rome but from Ierusalem In the Reformed Church at Middleburgh you might haue found this skirt of the Harlot which yet you grant at least crept out of Babylon Iudge now Christian reader of the weight of these grand exceptions and see whether ten thousand such were able to make vs no Church and argue vs not only in Babilon but to be Babilon it selfe Thus Babilonish we are to you and thus Sion-like to God euerie true Church is Gods Sion euerie Church that holdes the foundation is true according to that golden rule Ephes. 2. 21. Euery building that is coupled together in this corner stone groweth vnto an holy Temple in the Lord No aduersarie either man or Diuell can confound vs either in our euidences or their owne Challenges wee may be faulty but we are true And if the darknes you finde in vs be light how great is our light SECTION XLVII On what ground separation or Ceremonies was obiected HE that leaues the whole Church in a grosse and wilfull error is an hereticke he that leaues a particular Church for appendances is a schismaticke such are you both in the action and cause The act is yeelded the cause hath beene in part scanned shall be more This I vainely pretended to be our consorting in ceremonies
like some Anti Lot to call for fire and Brimstone from heauen vpon your Zoar. SECTION XLIX The state of the Temple and of our Church in resemblance HOw you would haue behaued your selfe in the Temple to the mony-changers you will aunswer when we proue our Church to be Gods Temple built of that matter and in that form which God hath prescribed and here you send vs to 1. K. 5. 17. 2. Chr. 2. 8. Ignorantly as if Salomons Temple had stood till Christs time when neither the first nor second though called Beth Gnolam out lasted more then foure hundred yeares Or as if the Market had beene vnder the very roofe of that Temple whether Herods were built of the same matter with Salomons and in full corespondence to it I dispute not it was certainely dedicated to Gods seruice and that which you would hardly digest in a solemne anniuersary holy-day though not erected vpon the word of any Prophet But to let passe Allegories we must proue our selues the true Church of God Thus we doe it VVe are true Christians for we were baptized into the name of Christ we truely professe our continuance in the same faith into which we were baptized we ioyne together in the publique seruices of God we maintain euery point of the most ancient Creeds wee ouerthrowe not the foundation by any consequence therefore what euer is wanting to vs what euer is superfluous in spight of all the gates of Hell we are the true Church of God Let me aske you Were not the people of the Iewes in the Prophets and in Christs time a confused heape of dead and defiled and for I will vse your Tautologies polluted stones and of all rubbish of Bryers and brambles of the VVildernesse for the most part fitter for burning then building Can we be worse then they If wickednesse can defile a Church they shal iustifie vs did either those Prophets or our Sauiour rather shewe their obedience to God in departing from it then their valour in purging it you haue well imitated these heauenly patternes But what Can your charity finde nothing but rubbish Not one square stone not one liuing You will bee iudging till God iudge you if you take not heede of these courses you will so runn with the Hee goates that you wil stand with the Goates on the left hand That God whose place you haue vsurped giue you more wisedome and loue SECTION L. Whether Ministers should endure themselues silenced THe valour of our most zealous Reformers hath truely shewed it selfe in yeeldance As in Duels so here he is the most valiant that can so master himselfe as not to fight you according to the common opinion of Swaggerers blame the peaceable of cowardise and accuse them of suffering Behold a newe crime That they suffer themselues to be driuen out VVhat should they haue done Should they haue taken armes and crie the sword of God and Gedion You that wil not allow a Prince to compell subiects VVill you allow subiects to compell Princes God forbidde This were high Treason against Gods annointed what then Should they approue the Ceremonies by subscription by practise This you exclaime vppon as high Treason against the highest VVhat yet more Should they haue preached with their mouthes stop't This is it which you haue learned of your founder and through not many handes receiued and required with no lesse violence Clamour and tumult is that you desire still let our sinne be peaceable obedience yours fury and opposition Your headstrong conceit is that it is a sinne to be silenced Men must preach euen when they may not all times before you would haue wondred at this Paradoxe For how euer the Apostles which had not their calling from men would not be silenced by men yet wee finde that all their successours held that those hands which were layd vpon their heads might be laid vpon their mouthes looke into all Histories Those Constitutions which though not Apostolike yet were auncient in the seuenth Canon punish a Bishop or Presbiter that vpon pretence of Religion separates from his wife with deposition and if any Presbiter shall shift his charge without licence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and lastly inflicts the same penalty vpon fornication adulterie periury The great Nicene Councels take the same order with some misliked Bishops and Presbiters in diuers Canons Gaudentius in the Councell of Sardi takes it for graunted that a Bishop may by Bishops be deposed so the second Councell of Carthage Can. 13. so the fourth Councell of Carthage more then once imposes degradation so Leo the first threats to put some offending persons from the office of their Ministrie so that I may not be endlesse blessed Cyprian aduises Rogatianus a good olde Bishop which was abused by a malapert Deacon by the authority of his Chaire to right himselfe and either to depose or suspend the offender Leontius in Socrates is depriued of his Priesthood yea what Councell or Father giues not both rules and instances of this practise See how farre the auncient Church was from these tumultuous fancies No no M. R. we well finde it is doing that vndoes the Church not suffering If your fellowes could haue suffered more and done lesse the Church had bin happy As for our Church officers you may raile vpon them with a lawlesse safety there is a great ditch betwixt you and them else you might pay deare for this sinne of slandering them with their cheape peny-worths How idly doe you insult ouer those whom your Mony-changers haue driuen out of their Pulpits When you confesse after all your valour that they haue driuen you both out of Church and Country who can pitty a miserable insulter SECTION LI. Power of reforming abuses giuen to the Church and the issue of the neglect of it YOu that can graunt there will be corruptions in all other Churches will endure none in ours If England should haue either vnleauened Wafers or drunken Loue-feasts though no other blemishes she could not but be Babilon Wee enuie not your fauours These or whatsoeuer like enormities Christ hath giuen power vnto his Church to reforme but what if the Church neglect to vse it What if those euils which are brought in by humane frailty will not by diuine authority be purged out Now the errour by your doctrine is growne fundamentall so Christ is lost and the foundation raced if wee shall then assume against our friends to conuince our enemies The Church of Geneua hath been seriously dealt with in this corruption and disswaded by vehement importunity yet still persisteth How can you free them and charge vs see how we loue to be miserable with cōpany This power to purge out all corruptions Christ hath not giuen vs if he hath giuē it you you must first begin to purge out your selues you haue done it but still there remaine some would God wee had as much execution as power Our Church should be
as cleane as yours is schismaticall if you should measure faculties by their exercise Naturall rest should be the greatest enemie to vertue and the solitarie Christian should be miserable This power of ours is not dead but sleepeth When it awaketh vnto more frequent vse which we earnestly pray for looke you for the first handsell of it None can be more worthy as it is we offend not more in defect then you in excesse Of whom that your Lazarello of Amsterdam G. I. could say that you haue excommunications as ready as a Prelate hath a prison Christ is in many that feele him not but wee want not the power onely but the presence of Christ How so He was with vs while you were here Did he depart with you will the separatists engrosse our Sauiour to themselues and as Cyprian said of Pupianus goe to heauen alone yea confine the God of heauen to Amsterdam What insolence in this we haue him in his Word wee haue him in his Sacraments we haue him in our hearts we haue him in our profession yet this enemie dare say we want him Wherein I suppose in our censures VVe haue Peters keyes as his true successours both in office and doctrine our fault is that we vse them not as you would VVhat Church doth so your first Martyr doth as zealously inueigh against the practise of Geneua and all other reformed Congregations in this point as against vs both for the wooden dagger as he termes it of suspension and for their Consistoriall excommunications VVoe were to all the world if Christ should limit his presence onely to your fashions Heere you found him and heere you left him VVould to God wee did no more grieue him with our sinnes then you please him in your presumptuous censures in the rest you raile against our Prelates and vs Can any man think that Christ hath left peaceable spirits to goe dwell with railers Indeed yours is free-hold so you wold haue it free from subiection free from obedience This is loosenesse more then liberty You haue broken the bonds and cast the cordes from you but you miscall our Tenure VVe hate villenage no lesse then you hate peace and hold in capite of him that is the head of his body the Church vnder whose easie yoake wee doe willingly stoope in a sweet Christian freedome abhorring and reprouing and therefore notwithstanding our personall communion auoiding all abhominations In these two respects therefore of our confusion and bondage wee haue well seene in this discourse how iustly your Sion accounts vs Babylon since it is apparent for the one that here is neither confusion nor Babylonish nor without separation For the other no bondage no seruility Our Prelats being our Fathers not our Masters and if Lords for their external dignity yet not Lords of our Faith and if both these your respects were so yet so long as we doe inviolably hold the foundation both directly and by necessary sequell any railer may terme vs but no Seperatist shall proue vs Babylon you may flye whether you list would God yet further vnlesse you had more loue SECTION LII The view of the sinnes and disorders of others whereupon obiected and how farre it should affect vs. I Neede no better Analyser then your selfe saue that you doe not onely resolue my parts but adde more whereas euery motion hath a double terme from whence and whither both these could not but fall into our discourse hauing therefore formerly expostulated with you for your since you will so terme it impiety in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon of your owne making in England I thought it not vnfit to compare your choice with your refusall England with Amsterdam which it pleaseth you to intitle a substantiall Babylon impiety and madnes are titles of your owne choice let your guiltinesse be your owne accuser The truth is my charity and your vncharitablenes haue caused vs to mistake each other my charity thus Hearing both at Middleburgh and here that certaine companies from the parts of Nottingham and Lincolne whose Harbinger had beene newly in Zeland before me meant to retyre themselues to Amsterdam for their full libertie not for the full approbation of your Church not fauouring your maine opinions but emulating your freedome in too much hate of our ceremonies and too much accordance to some grounds of your hatred I hoped you had beene one of their guides both because Lincoln-shire was your Country and Master Smith your Oracle and Generall Not daring therefore to charge you with perfect Brownisme what could I thinke might bee a greater motiue to this your supposed change then the view of our so oft proclaimed wickednesse and the hope of lesse cause of offence in those forraine parts this I vrged fearing to goe deeper then I might bee sure to warrant Now comes my charitable answerer and imputes this easines of my challenge to my ignorance and therefore will needes perswade his Christian reader that I knew nothing of the first separation because I obiected so little to the second It were strange if I should thinke you gather Churches there by Town-rowes as we in England who know that some one prison might hold all your refined flocke you gathered here by Hedge-rowes but there it is easier to tell how you diuide then how you gather let your Church be an intire body inioying her owne spirituall communion yet if it be not a corrasiue to your heart to conuerse in the same streetes and to be ranged in the same Towne-rowes with Iewes Arians Anabaptists c. you are no whit of kinne to him that vexed his righteous soule with the vncleanenesses of foule Sodom That good man had nothing but ciuill society with those impure neighbours he differed from them in Religion in practise yet could hee not so carelesly turne off this torment His house was Gods Church wherein they had the spirituall communion of the Saints yet whiles the Citie was so vncleane his heart was vnquiet We may you graunt haue ciuill society with ill men spirituall communion onely with Saints Those must be accounted the world these onely the Church your owne allegations shall condemne you They are not of the world saith Christ as I am not of the world Both Christ and they were partes of the Iewish Church The Iewish Church was not so sanctified but the most were extreamely vncleane therefore wee may bee partes of a visible vnsanctified Church and yet be separate from the world Saint Paul writes to his Corinthians sanctified in Christ Saints by calling True but not long after he can say ye are yet carnall In his second Epistle Come out saith he from among them But from whom From Infidels by profession not corrupted Christians SECTION LIII The nearenesse of the State and Church and the great errours found by the Separatists in the French and Dutch Churches THE Church and State if they be two
yet they are twins and that so as eithers euill proues mutuall The sinnes of the Citie not reformed blemish the Church where the Church hath power and in a sort comprehends the State she cannot wash her hands of tollerated disorders in the CoÌ„mon-wealth hence is my comparison of the Church if you could haue seene it not the Kingdome of England with that of Amsterdam I doubt not but you could be content to sing the old song of vs Bona terra mala gens Our land you could like well if you might be Lordes alone Thankes be to God it likes not you and iustly thinkes the meanest corner too good for so mutinous a generation when it is weary of peace it will recall you you that neither in prison nor on the Seas nor in the Coasts of Virginea nor in your way nor in Netherland could liue in peace What shall we hope of your ease at home Where ye are all you thankful Tenants cannot in a powerful Christian state moue God to distinguish betwixt the knowen sinnes of the Citie and the Church How oft hath our gratious Soueraigne and how importunately beene solicited for a tolleration of Religions It is pittie that the Papists hyred not your aduocation who in this pointe are those true Cassanders which reuerend Caluin long since confuted Their wishes herein are yours To our shame and their excuse his Christian heart held that tolleration vnchristian and intollerable which you either neglect or magnifie Good Constantine wink 't at it in his beginning but as Dauid at the house of Zeruiah Succeeding times found these Canaanites to be prickes and thornes and therefore both by mulctes and banishments sought eyther their yeeldance or voydance If your Magistrates hauing once given their names to the Church indevour not to purge this Augean stable how can you preferre their Communion to ours But howsoeuer now least we should thinke your Land-lords haue too iust cause to pack you away for wranglers you turne ouer all the blame from the Church to the City yet your Pastor and Church haue so found the Citie in the Church and branded it with so blacke markes as that all your smooth extenuations cannot make it a lesse Babylon then the Church of England Beholde now by your owne Confessions either Amsterdam shall be or England shall not be Babylon These eleuen crimes you haue found and proclaimed in those Dutch and French Churches First That the assembles are so contriued that the whole Church comes not together in one So that the Ministers cannot together with the flock sanctifie the Lords day The presence of the members of the Church cannot be knowne and finally no publique action whether excommunication or any other can rightly be performed Could you say worse of vs Where neither Sabboth can be rightly sanctified nor presence or absence knowne nor any holy action rightly performed what can there be but mere confusion Secondly That they baptise the seede of them who are no members of any visible Church of whom moreouer they haue not care as of members neither admit their parents to the Lordes Supper Mere Babylonisme and sinne in constitution yea the same that makes vs no Church for what separation can there be in such admittance what other but a sinfull commixture How is the Church of Amsterdam now gathered from the world Thirdly That in the publique worshippe of God they haue deuised and vsed another forme of prayer besides that which Christ our Lord hath prescribed Mat. 6. reading out of a booke certain prayers inuented and imposed by man Beholde here our fellow Idolaters and as followes a daily Sacrifice of a set Seruice-booke which in stead of the sweete incense of spirituall prayers is offered to God very Swines-flesh a new Porâ—uise and an equal participation with vs of the curse of addition to the word Fourthly That rule and commandement of Christ Matth. 18. 15. they neither obserue nor suffer rightly to be obserued among them How oft haue you said that there can bee no sound Church without this course because no separation Beholde the maine blemish of England in the face of Amsterdam Fiftly That they worship God in the Idoll Temples of Antichrist so the Wine is mar'd with the vessell their seruice abhomination with ours neyther doe these Antichristian stones want all glorious ornaments of the Romish harlot yet more Sixtly That their Ministers haue their set maintenance after another manner then Christ hath ordained 1. Chr. 14. and that also such as by which any Ministery at all whether Popish or other might bee maintained Either tithes or as ill Beholde one of the maine Arguments wherby our Ministery is condemned as false and Antichristian falling heauie vppon our neighbours Seuenthly That their Elders change yearely and do not continue in their office according to the doctrine of the Apostles and practise of the Primitiue Church What can our Church haue worse then false Gouernours Both annuall and perpetual they cannot be VVhat is if not this a wrong in Constitution Eightly that they celebrate mariage in the Church as if it were a part of the Ecclesiasticall administration a foule shame and sinne and what better then our third Sacrament Ninthly That they vse a new censure of suspension which Christ hath not appointed no lesse then English presumption Tenthly That they obserue daies and times consecrating certaine daies in the yeare to the Natiuity Resurrection Ascension of Christ Beholde their Calender as truely possessed Two Commaundements solemnely broken at once and we not Idolaters alone Eleuenth which is last and worst that they receiue vnrepentant excommunicates to bee members of their Church which by this meanes becomes one one body with such as be deliuered vnto Sathan therefore none of Christs bodie England can be but a miscelline rabble of prophane men The Dutch and French Churches are belike no better who can be worse then an vnrepentant excommunicate Goe now and say It is the Apostasie of Antichrist to haue communion with the world in the holy things of God which are the peculiars of the Church and cannot without great Sacriledge be so prostituted and prophaned Goe say that the plaguy-spirituall-leprosie of sinne rising vp in the foreheads of many in that Church vnshut vp vncouered yea wilfully let loose infects all both persons and things amongst them Goe now and flie out of this Babylon also as the Hee-goates before the flocke or returne to ours But howeuer these errours bee grosse perhappes they are tractable Not the sinne vndoes the Church but obstinacy here is no euasion For behold you do no more accuse those Churches of corruption then of wilfulnesse for diuers times haue you dealt with them about these fearefull enormities yea you haue often deâ—ired that knowledge thereof might be by themselues giuen to the whole body of their Church or that at least they would take order that it might be done by you They haue refused both What
remaines but they be our fellow-Heathens and Publicanes And not they alone but all reformed Churches besides in Christendome which doe ioyntly partake in all these except one or two personall abhominations will you neuer leaue til you haue wrangled your selues out of the world But now I feare I haue drawne you to say that the hellish impieties both in the Citie and Church of Amsterdam are but frogges lyce flies moraine and other Egiptian plagues not preiudicing your Goshen Say so if you dare I feare they would soone make the Ocean your redde Sea and Virginia your Wildernesse The Church is Noahs Arke which gaue safetie to her Guests whereof ye are part but remember that it had vncleane beasts also and some sauage If the waues drowne you not yet me thinkes you should complaine of noysome society Sathans throne could not preiudice the Church of Pergamus but did not the Balaamites the Nicolaitanes Yet their heauenly communion stood and the Angell is sent away with but threates SECTION LIIII Conuersation with the world AS it were madnesse to denie that the Church should conuerse with the world in the affaires thereof So to denie her Communion in Gods holy things with any of those of the world which professe Christianity as yet vncensured is a point of Anabaptisticall Apostasie such of the world are still of the Church As my censure cannot eiect them so their sinne after my priuate endeuor of redresse cannot defile me I speake of priuate Communicants If an vnbidden Guest come with a ragged garment and vnwashen hands shall I forbeare Gods heauenly dainties The Master of the feast can say Friend how cam'st thou in hither not Friendes why came you hither with such a Guest God biddes me come he hath imposed this necessity neuer allowed this excuse My teeth shall not bee set on edge with the sower grapes of others If the Church cast not out the knowne vnworthy the sinne is hers If a man will come vnworthy the sinne is his But if I come not because he comes the sinne is mine I shall not answer for that others sinne I shall answere for mine owne neglect An other mans fault cannot dispence with my duetie SECTION LV. The impure mixtures of the Church of England AS there is no element which is not through many mixtures departed from the first simplicitie So no Church euer breathed in so pure an Ayre as that it might not iustly complaine of some thicke and vnwholsome euaporations of errour and sinne If you challenge an immunity you are herein the true broode of the auncient Puritanes But if too many sinnes in practise haue thickened the Ayre of our Church yet not one heresie that smoake of the bottomlesse pit hath neuer corrupted it and therefore iustly may I auerre that here you might drawe in the cleare Ayre of the Gospell No wherevpon earth more freely And if this be but the opinion of custome you whom absence hath helped with a more nice and dainty sent speake your worst Shew vs our heresies and shame vs you haue done it and behold foure maine infections of our English ayre The first the smoake of our Canons Wittily I feare the great Ordinances of the Church haue troubled you more with the blow then the smoake For you tell vs of their Plantation against the Kingdome of Christ What Kingdome The Visible Church Which is that Not the Reformedst peece of ours whole best are but Goats and Swine Not the close Nicodemians of your owne Sect amongst vs which would be loath to be visible Not forrainers to them they extend not None therefore in all the world but the English Parlour-full at Amsterdam Can there be any truer Donatisme Crie you still out of their poysoning the Ayre We hold it the best clensed by the batteries of your idle fancies by ridding you from our Ayre and by making this your Church inuisible to vs smart you thus till we complaine The second is the plague or Leprosie of sinne vnshut vp and vncouered Wee knowe that sinne is as ill as the Diuill can make it a most loathsome thing in the eies of God and his Angels and Saints and we grant to our griefe that among so many millions of men there may be found some thousands of Lepers Good lawes and censures meete with some others escape It is not so much our fault as our griefe But that this Leprosie infects all persons and things is shamefully ouer-reach't Plague and Leprosie haue their limits beyond which is no contagion If a man come not neare them if hee take the winde in an open ayre they infect not such is sinne It can infect none but the guiltie Those which acte or assent to or bear with it or detest it not are in this pollution But those which can mourne for it and cannot redresse it are free from infection How many foule Lepers spiritually did our Sauiour see in the publique Ayre of the Iewish Church wherewith yet he ioyned and his not fearing infection so much as gracing the remnants of their ruinous Church Were those seuen thousand Israelites whose knees bowed not to Baal infected with the Idolatrie of their neighbours yet continued they still partes of the same Church But this yet exceedes Not onely all persons but all thinges What Our Gospell Our heauen earth Sea Our Bookes Coyne Commodities Beholde you see the same heauen with vs you haue no Bibles but ours our Ayre in his circular motion comes to bee yours the water that washeth our Iland perhappes washeth your handes Our vncleane Siluer I feare maintaines you Our Commodities in parte inrich your Land-lords and yet all things amongst vs infected you are content to take some euil from your neighbors The third is our blasting Hierarchie which suffers no good thing that is no Brownist no singular fancy for what good things haue we but yours to grow or prosper amongst vs but withers all both budde and branch would to God the root also The last is the daily sacrifice of a seruice-booke an incense how euer vnsauorie to you yet such as all Churches in Christendome hold sweete and offer vp as fitte for the nostrils of the Almightie we are not alone thus tainted al Christian Churches that are or haue bin present the same Censers vnto God But ours smels strong of the Popes Portuise See whether this be any better then triuiall cauilling If either an ill man or a Diuill shall speake that which is good may not a good man vse it If a good Angell or man shall speake that which is euill is it euer the better for the Deliuerer If Sathan himselfe shall say of Christ Thou art the sonne of the liuing God shall I feare to repeate it Not the Authour but the matter in these things is worthie of regard As Ierome speakes of the poysoned workes of Origen and other dangerous
Treatisours Good things may be receiued from ill handes If the matter of any prayer be Popish fault it for what it containes not for whence it came what say you against vs in this more then Master Smith your stout Anabaptist saith of our baptizing of Infants Both of them equally condemned for Antichristian Still therefore wee boast of the free and cleare ayre of the Gospell if it be annoyed with some practicall euils we may be foule the Gospel is it selfe and our profession holy neither can we complaine of all euils while we want you SECTION LVI The iudgement of our owne and our neighbours of our Church THat which followeth is but wordes a short answere is too much That all Christendome magnifies the worthinesse of our Church in so cleare euidences of their own voyces you cannot denie and now when you see such testimonies abroad lest you should say nothing you fetch cauils from home Those men which you say complaine so much of their miserable condition vnder the Prelates impositions haue notwithstanding with the same pens and tongues not onely iustified our Church but extold it you haue found no sharper aduersaries in this verie accusation for which you malitiously cyte them How freely how sully haue they euinced the truth yea the happinesse of the Church of England against your false challenges and yet your forehead dare challenge them for Authors So hath their moderation opposed some appendances that they haue both acknowledged and defended the substance with equall vehemence to your opposition neither doe they suffer as you traduce them for seeking another Church-gouernement looke into the Millenaries petition the common voyce of that part I am deceiued if ought of their complaints sound that way much lesse of their sufferings deformitie in practise is obiected to them not indeuour of innouation That quarrell hath beene long silent your motion cannot reuiue it would God you could as much follow those men in moderate and charitable carriage as you haue out-run them in complaint It pleaseth you to deuise vs like pictures vpon course Canuasse which shew fairest at farthest attributing forraine approbation which you cannot denie to distance more then to desert How is it then that besides strange witnesses we which looke vpon this face without preiudice commend it God knowes without flatterie we can at once acknowledge her infirmities and blesse God for her graces Our neighbours yea our selues of Scotland know our Church so well that they doe with one consent praise her for one of Gods best daughters neither doe the most rigorous amongst them more dislike our Episcopall Gouernement then embrace our Church what fraud is this to flie from the Church in common to one circumstance wee can honour that noble Church in Scotland may we not dislike their alienations of Church-liuings If one thing offend doe all displease Yet euen this Gouernment which you would haue them resist to bonds and banishment who knowes not begins to find both fauour and place what choice other Churches would make as you doubt not so you care not If you regarded their sentence How durst your reuile her as a false harlot whom they honour as a deere sister If you were more theirs then we you might vpbraide vs Now you tell vs what perhaps they would doe we tell you what they doe and will doe Euen with one voyce blesse God for England as the most famous and flourishing Church in Christendome your handfull onely makes faces and enuies this true glorie Who yet you say despise not our graces no more then we those of Rome See how you despise vs while you say you are free from despight How malicious is this Comparison as if we were to you as Rome to vs and yet you despise vs more Wee graunt Rome a true Baptisme true Visibilitie of a Church though monstrously corrupted you giue not vs so much Thankes be to God wee care lesse for your censure then you doe for our Church We haue by Gods mercy the true and right vse of the word and Sacraments and all other essentiall giftes and graces of God if there might bee some further helpes in execution to make these more effectual we resist not But those your other imaginary ordinances as wee haue not so wee want not Neither the Chaldeans nor any Idolatrous enemies could make Sion Babylon nor the holy vessels prophane so as they should cease to be fitte for Gods vse but they were brought backe at the returne of the captiuitie to Ierusalem Such were our worshippe ministery Sacraments and those manifold subiects of your cauils which whiles you disgrace for their former abuse you call our good euill and willingly despise our graces SECTION LVII The issue of Separation ALL the sequell of my answerer is meerely sententious it is fitter for vs to learne then replie Where the truth gaines say you God looseth not I tell you againe where God looseth the truth gaineth not and where the Church looseth God which indowed her cannot but loose Alas what can the truth either get or saue by such vnkinde quarrels Surely suspicion on some handes on others reiection for as Optatus of his Donatists Betwixt our Licet and your Non licet many poore soules wauer and doubt neither will settle because wee agree not Thankes are not lost where new fauours are called for but where olde are denied while your Posie is Such as the mother such is the daughter where are our olde our any mercies They are vnthankfull which know what God hath done and confesse it not They are vnfaithfull to God and his Deputie which knowing themselues made to obey presume to ouer-rule and vpon their priuate authoritie obtrude to the Church those ordinances to bee obserued which neuer had being but in their owne idle speculation Your Sequestration and our confusion are both of them beneficial where they should not and as you pretend our confusion for the cause of your Separation So is your Separation the true cause of too much trouble and confusion in the Church Your odious tale of commixture hath cloyed and surfeited your reader already and receiued aunswere to satietie This one dish so oft brought foorth argues your pouertie The visible Church is Gods drag-net and field and floore and Arke here will be euer at her best sedge tares chaffe vncleane Creatures yet is this no pretence for her neglect The notoriously euill she casts from her brest and knee denying them the vse of her prayers and which your leaders mislike of her Sacrament If diuers through corruption of vnfaithfull officers escape censure yet let not the transgressions of some redound to the condemnation of the whole Church In Gods iudgement it shall not wee care little if in yours Wee tell wicked men they may goe to hell-with the water of Baptisme in their faces with the Church in their mouthes we denounce Gods iudgements vnpartially against their sinnes
by our holy Martyrs fol. 62. What separation England hath made fol. 63. The maine grounds of Separation fol. 65. The truth and warrant of the Ministery of England fol. 66. Confused Communion of the prophane fol. 70. Our Errours intermingled with Truth fol. 71. Whether our Prelacie be Antichristian fol. 74. The iudgement and practise of other Reformed Churches fol. 77. Our Synodes determination of things indifferent fol. 78. Sinnes sold in our Courts fol. 81. Our loyaltie to Princes cleared theirs questioned fol. 84. Errours of Free will c. fained vpon the Church of England fol. 86. Kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper fol. 87. Whether our Ordinarie and Seruice-Booke be made Idols by vs. fol. 89. Marriage not made a Sacrament by the Church of England fol. 95. Commutation of Penance in our Church fol. 98. Oath ex Officio fol. 99. Holy-daies how obserued in the Church of England 100. Our approbation of an vnlearned Ministery disproued fol. 102. Penances inioyned in the Church of England fol. 103. The practises of the Church of England concerning the Funerals of the dead fol. 104. The Churches still retained in England fol. 108. The Founders and Furnitures of our Churches fol. 110. On what ground Separation or Ceremonies was obiected fol. 112. Estimation of Ceremonies and subiection to the Prelates fol. 114. The state of the Temple and of our Church in resemblance fol. 117. Whether Ministers should endure themselues silenced fol. 119. Power of reforming abuses giuen to the Church and the issue of the neglect of it fol. 121. The view of the sinnes and disorders of others wherupon obiected and how farre it should affect vs. fol. 124. The nearenesse of the State and Church and the great errours found by the Separatists in the French and Dutch Churches fol. 127. Conuersation with the world fol. 132. The impure mixtures of the Church of England fo 133. The iudgement of our owne and our neighbours of our Church fol. 137. The issue of Separation fol. 140 The Brownists scornefull opinion of our people fol. 143. The Conclusion from the fearefull aunswere of Separation fol. 144. Errata Read welbeloueds for welbelouedst Epist pa. vlt. Conâ—iction for coniunction pag. 32. line 19. Vncharitablenesse for vnchariblenesse pag. 47. line 18. Optat. lib. 3. for Opt. lib. 30. marg pag. 49. Rules of Christ for rules Christ. pag. 50. line 1. Places onwards for places onwards pag. 66. line 18. Our Ministerie for your Ministerie pag. 67. line 8. That houses for what houses pag. 80. line 16. waryof for weary of pag. 88. line 16. shrifte for strife pa. 99. l. 12 Enuie for annoy pag. 103. line 13. Ingenuously for ingeniously pag. 104. line 19 which are in for which are in pag. 107. line 13. Besides many quotations in the margent are misplaced the matter will leade the Reader to the right place The words of the aduersarie are onely those which haue this Note of Sep. set before them Meam iniuriam patieÌ„tertuli impietatem contra SpoÌ„sam Christi ferre non potui Hier ad Vigilant Zach. 8. 19. Matth. 18. 7. Otho Frising ex Philon. Vr. Chaldaeorum Ruffiin Ecclâ—s hist. l. 2. c. 26. Dan. 3. Vid. Treatis of certainâ— godly Minist ag Barr. 1. Retorted Sâ—p It is a hard thing euen for sober minded men in cases of controuersie to vse soberly the aduantages of the times vpon which whilst men are mounted on high they vse to behold such as they oppose too ouerlie and not without contempt and so are oft times emboldened to roule vpon them as from aloft very weake and weightlesse discourses thinking any sleight and slender opposition sufficient to oppresse those vnderlings whom they haue as they suppose at so great an aduantage Vpon this very presumption it commeth to passe that this Author vndertaketh thus solemnly and seuerely to censure a cause whereof as appeareth in the sequell of the discourse hee is vtterly ignorant which had he beene but halfe so carefull to haue vnderstood as hee hath beene forward to censure hee would either haue beene I doubt not more equall towards it or more weightie against it * 2. Confuted * Hier. Marco presbyt De cauernis cellularum damnamus orbem in sacco cinere volutati de Episcopis sententiam ferimus Quid facit sub tunica paenitentis regius animus Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9. Haec sunt initia haereticorum vt sibi placean vt praepositum superbo tumore contemnant Harison once theirs in Psal. 122. of Brown Antichristian pride and bitternes Bredw pref M Brinsly his pref to the 2. part of the VVatch. Optat. Mil. de Donat. Collegae non eritis siâ—o litis fratres estis c. Disclaimed by themselues Answer against Broughton page 21. Separat schism M. Giff. an ignorant Priest Barr. p. 64. Confer of D. And. M. Huchius with Barrow M. Spr. 3. 〈◊〉 siderat Iren. l. 1. Per singulos dies nouum aliquod adsectant c. * Bar. Confer with Hutchins fo 1. Browne estatâ— of true Christians Defence of true Christians against the Doct. of Oxford Iohnson against Iacob passim Barr. against Gyfford Sepa As this Epistle is come to mine hands so I wish the answere of it may come to the hands of him that occasioned it Intreating the Christian Reader in the name of the Lord vnpartially to behold without either preiudice of cause or respect of person what is written on both sides and so from the Court of a sound conscience to giue iust iudgement To M. Smith and M. Rob. Ring-leaders of the late separation at Amsterd Charact. of the Beast written by M. Smith Pref. Be it knowne therefore to all the separation that we account them in respect of their constitution to be as very an Harlot as either her Mother the Church of England or her Grandmother Rome is c. Iterato Baptizatus scienter it erato Dominum crucifigit De consecr dist 4. Qui vis c. * The crime of separation how great Sep. The crime here obiected is separation a thing very odious in the eyes of all them from whom it is made as euermore casting vpon them the imputation of euill whereof all men are impatient And hence it commeth to passâ— that the Church of England can better brooke the vilest persons continuing communion with it then any whomsoeuer separating from it though vpon neuer so iust and well grounded reasons Vid. Iohnson Preface to his Inquirie Esay 5. 20. M. Penry in his Disc. of this subiect Num. 16 31. â—xod 32. 30. Prou. 21. 2. Sepa And yet separation from the world and so from the men of the world and so from the Prince of the world that raigneth in them and so from whatsoeuer is contrarie to God is the first steppe to our communion with God and Angels and good men as the first steppe to a Ladder is to leaue the earth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Num. 18. 14 Num. 16. 9. Deut. 10. 1. Exod. 13. 12. Leuit. 15. 21. Deut.
4. 41. Rom. 1. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Thess. vlt. ad fin Iere. 15. 19. Vide Tremel Iun. Num. 16. Mat. 15. ad fin 2. Chro. 19 2. 1. Cor. 6. ad fin Nulla cum malis Conuivia vel colloquia misceantur simusque ab ijs tam separati quam sunt illi ab Ecclesia Dei profugi Cypr. l. 1. Epist. ad Cornel. 2. Char act of Beast praef Iohns Inquir Ioh. 6. 68. H. Cl. Epistle before Treatis of sinne ag Holy Gh. Neque propter paleam relinquim are am Domini neque propter pisces malos rumpimus retia Domini August Ep. 48. Answ. Counterpoyson p. 2. Counter p. p. 7 8. c Sep. The separation we haue made in respect of our knowledge and obedience is indeed late and new yet is it in the nature and causes thereof as auncient as the Gospell which was first founded in the enmity which God himselfe put betwixt the seede of the woman and the seede of the serpent Gen. 3 15 â—useb hâ—st Eccl Hen Steph. Apâ—l Herod Foâ— Aâ—t monum H. N. his booke Gal. 1. 6. Eph. 6. 17. Colos. 1 5. 1. Tin 1. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sep. Which enmity hath not onely beene successiuely continued but also visibly manifested by the actuall separation of all true Churches from the world in their collection and constitution before the law vnder the law and vnder the Gospell Gen. 4 13 14 16 6. 1 2 7 1 7. with 1 Pet 3 20 21 12. 2 Iâ—â— 20 24 26 Neh 9 2 Ioh 17 14 16 Act. 2 40 19 9 1 Cor 6 17 Iren. de Valentin l. 1. Ianumerabilâ— multitudinâ—m scripturarum quas ipsi sinâ—erunt afferunt ad stuporem insensatorum Vid. Preface to Master Iacobs and Iohnsons Confer Barr. pass Descript of true visib Ch Nihil autem â—irum fi ex ipsius instrumento aâ—tentur argumenta cum oporteat haereses esse quae esse non possent si non perperam scripturae intelligi possent Tertull. de resur Ibid So Barrow tearmes Mast. Gyff Reâ—ut p. 102. Si Christianus Iudaicae praeuaricanti carnaliter coniungatur a commumone Ecclesiaesegregetur Dist. 28. q. 1 Caue cap. si quis Iudaicae c. 1. Pet. 3. 19. 2. Pet. 2. 5. Sep. Which separation the Church of England neither hath made nor doth make but stands actually one with althat part of the world within the kingdom without separation for which cause amongst others we haue chosen by the grace of God rather to separate our selues to the Lord from it then with it from him in the visible constitution of it In his Preface to the Reader and in his causes of separ defended p. 4 Eiusdem p. 10 Resutat of M. Gyff p 22. 2. Transgress p 51 52. 55. 66 70. 85. 86. c. Inconstancâ— of Brown p. â—o Inquiry into M. White confessed by Fr. Iohnson p. 63. Passag 'twixt Clifton and Smith And concerning the constitution of the Churches c. But the constituting of Churches now after the defection of Antichrist may more properly be called a repairing then a constituting c. p. 60. psal 106. Matth. 23. Reuel 34. Reuel â— 24. Bar. p. 22. 55. Fr. Iohns ag M. H. Act. Mon. passim Troubl and excom pa. 191 M. Spr. p. 1. Fr. Iun. lib. de Eccles. Ratihabitio retrohaâ—â— c. Subsequens consensus Iacob in Leam fecit cos coniuges d. 29. q 1. S. sed obijcitur Barr. ag Gyff H. Answ. Counter p. p. 17â— Colos. 2. 5. Tertull. de Prescript Tu vt homo extrimsecus vitumquemque nosti putas quod vides vides autem quonsque oculos habes sed oculi Domini sunt alti Homo in faciem Deus in praecordiae contemplatur Principles inferences concerning the visible Ch. An. 1607 p 13 Part of Constitution how farr requisite and whether hindred by Constraint D. 〈…〉 Brownists Brow◠〈◊〉 of true Christians Inquir into M. White Answ. ibid. Arist. Pol. 3 c 1. Arist. Pol 3 c. 1 Edesius Frumentius pueri a Meropio Tyrio-Philosophâ— in Indian deportati postea ibi Christianam religionem plantarunt Ruffin l. 1. â— 9. Faemina iâ—ter Iberos 2. Chron. 33. 16 2. Chr. 34. 32. 33 2. Chron. â—5 13 Barr. ag Ciff Brow Reform without tarry Greene wood Confer with Cooper Brow refor without tar Confer with D. And M. Hutch Confer with D. An. Refor without tar Ber. Fides Suadenda non cogenda Counterpois Dixit Paterfamilias seruis Quoscunque inueneritis cogite intrare c. Aug. â—p 48. Pless de Eccles. c. 10 Augustin Quod si cogiper legem aliquem vel ad bona licuisset vos ipsi miseri 〈◊〉 nobis ad fidem purissimam cogi debuistis sed absit a nostra conscientia vt ad 〈…〉 August Epist. 48. 〈◊〉 68. Qui freneticum ligat qui 〈…〉 Quod 〈◊〉 umus sanctum est Bar. and Greenew pasâ—im H. answ Counterp Act Monum Edit 5. p. 1180. Counterp 226. P. Martyr P. Fagius Bucer c. Sixe Arti. 1547 Pag. 1182. Col. 2. 60. Act. Monum Pag. 999. 1000. Act Monum Edit 5. p. 1002. Bar. ag Gyff Conference with Sperin M. Egerton Greenw Bar. Arg. to M. Car. twr M. Trauers M. Chark Browne Reform without tarrying M. Smith ag R. Clifton Principl Iâ—fer pag. 11. Separ To the Title of Ring-leader wherewith it pleaseth this Pistler to stile me I answere that if the thing I haue done be good it is good and commendable to haue beene forward in it if it be euill let it be reproued by the light of Gods word and that God to whom I haue done that I haue done will I doubt not giue me both to see and to heale mine errour by speedy repentance if I haue fledde away on foote I shall returne on Horse-backe But as I durst neuer sâ—t foote into this way but vpon a most sound and vnresist able conuiction of conscience by the word Ier. 23. 32. Ezech. 13. 2. of God as I was perswaded so must my retyring be wrought by more solide reasons from the same word then are to be found in a thousand such pretty pamphlets and formall flourishes as this is Pro. 9. 21. Separ Your pitying of vs and sorrowing for vs especially for the wrong done by vs were in you commendable affections if by vs iustly occasioâ—ed but if your Church bee deepelye drencht in Apostacie and you crie Peace Peace when suddaine and certaine desolation is at hand it is you that do wrong though you make the complaint and so being cruell towards your selues your owne whome you flatter you cannot be truely pitifull towards others whom you bewaile A Treatise of the Ministery of England against M. H pag. 125. H. Amsworth in his fore-speech to his Count. Inqu into VVh Tertul. l. de Orat Tert. l. de praescript So de Virginib Veland That no continâ—ance of time can prejudice
Tâ—uth Sime reprehendas errantem patere me quae so errare cum talibus Aug. Hiâ—r Fr. Iohnsonin his Anâ—w to T. VVh p. 26. Aunsw ag Broughton p. 17 These Dutch Ch. offend not only in practicall disorders but in their Constitution Gouerament wâ—â—sh p c. Troubl and Excom at Amsterd p. 10. Brown charged with it by Barr. Letter to M. Egert â— Iohnson ibid. p. 194. Fr. Iohnson Inq. Act. 15. 38. Departing â— not going with them Barr. Pres. to the Separation dâ—fend In his obseruations p. 251. VVe doe not there condemne the parish Assemblies as separated from Christ but trâ—ue them not as yet gathered to Christ. So Conser â—â—th Sperin p. 9. Fr. Iohnson Inquir pag. 36. H. Bar. Obseruat 242. No faults disanull the being of a Church vntill contempt of Gods word be added thereunto after due conuiction The faults errors of a Church may be seuerely reproued and conuinced according to the quality thereof and yet the Church not be condemned N. B. Iob. â—4 19. Vulg. edit Câ—pr Epi ad Cornel. Non est maius pechcaatum quam Apostat are a Deo Aug. in Ps. 18. Prou. 6. 12. Iob 34. 18. Ezec 2. 3. Apocal. 2. 3 Thou hast laboured and not giuen in Tertâ—l de Pat Si hominibus Plaâ—â—tâ—r Dominus offenditur sivero illud entimur laboramus vt 〈◊〉 dco piacere 〈◊〉 maledicta debemus humana contemnere confessed by M. Iohâ—s loc seq Inq. of Th. VVhite p. 65. Gen 49. 7. Sep. But I will not discourage you in this affection least we find few in the same fault the most in stead of pitty and compassion affoording vs nothing but fury and indignation Cypr. de sâ—â—â—plic prael Quid facit in corde Christiano luporum seritas canum rabies August Confess l. 9. c. 9. Qualâ—a solet eructare turgens indigesta discordia Seâ— The first action laid against vs is of vnnaturalnes and ingratitude towards our mother the Church of England for our causelesse separation from her to which vniust accusation and triuiall querimony our most iust defence hath beene and is that to our knowledge we haue done her no wrong we do freely and with all thankfulnesse acknowledge euery good thing she hath and which our selues haue there receiued H. Barr. Praef. to the separ defended Causes of separ def p. 12. Confer with D. Andr. Praef. to separ def Gyff refuted touch Donat. Obseruat of M. H. Bar. p. 239. Fr. Iohns Reas. 9 ag M. Iac. p. 74. Iohns ag M. Iac. Except 3. Nota Bene. Ibid. Counterpoys pag. 127. 131. Barr. Confer With M. Sperm as Bar hims hath written it pag. 9 Fr. Iob. 7. Reas. aga Iac p. 64. G. Iohns Praef. to the Pastor Russin l. 2. Eccl. hist. c 3. Aug. Epist. Possid in vita Aug. Euseb hist. eccl Damnis grauissimis caedibus afficiebant armati diuersis telis Socrates l. 2. c. 22. 30. Cypr. l. 2. Ep. 8. Nouati pater in vico fame mortuns nec postea ab illo sepultus Sic Optat. l. 1. Purpurus Donatista occidit sororis filios c. G. Iohns Discourse of troubles and Excommunications at Amsterdam printed 1603 Ibid. p. 5. Discouery of Brownisme Vid. G. Iohns booke Inq. into Th. VVh Discou Same Epist. p. 15 They say Fiâ—â—a â—ponsae Mihi accusatio etiam vera contra fratrem displâ—cet Hieron aduersus Ruffin Bar. exam before the Archb. and L. Anderson Browne state of Christians d. 39 Qui non habet quod det quomodo det vox Donat. Opta l. 1 Barrow supra Fr. â—â—hns ag M. Iâ—cob p. 41. 〈◊〉 2. Sep. The superabundant grace of God couering and passing by the manifolde enormitiâ—s in that Church wherewith these good things are inseparably commingled and wherein we also through ignorance and infirmity were inwrapp ed. Sep. But what theÌ„ should we still haue continued in sinne that grace might haue abounded If God haue caused a further truth like a light in a darke place to shine in our hearts should wee still haue mingled that light with darkenesse contrary to the Lords owne practise Ge. 1. 4. and expresse precept 2. Cor. 6. 14. Gen. 1. 2. Es. 5. 20. VVoe to them that put darknesse for light Es. 59. 9. Deu. 21. 22 23. Sep. But the Church of England say you is our Mother and so ought not to be auoided But say I we must not so cleaue to holy mother Church as we neglect our heauenly father and his commandements which we know in that estate we could not but transgresse and that heynously and against our consciences not onely in the want of many Christian Ordinances to which we are most straightly bound both by Gods word and our owne necessities Mater Ecclesia mater est etiam matris nostrae Aug. Ep. 38. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nemo per exteriorem violentiam corrumpitur si interior innocentia custodiatur c. â— q. 3. Custodi c. Ad docendum populum Israeliticum omnipotens deus prophetis praeconium dedi non regibus imperauit Aug. l. 2. contr Gau. c. 11. Barr. causes of scpera def p. 6. Brow Reform without tarrying Aug. contr Petilia n. l. 2. Optatus Mileuit lib. 3â— Barr. 2. Exaâ—â—iâ— nation before the L. Archb. and L. Chiefe-Iustice compar with his reply to M. Gyff Art 5. â— Sam. 24. 6. Num. 16. 3. Counter poys p. 230. 2. Chr. 13. 2. Chr. 14. 15 2. Chr. 29. 2. Chr. 30. 2. Chr. 34. Ezr. 2. 3. 2. Ezr. 4. 23. 24 a August Ep. 58 Pastores autem doctores quâ—s maxime vt discernerem voluisti eosdem puto esse sicut tibi visum est vt non alios Pastores alios Doctores intelligeremus sed ideo cum praedixisset Pastores subiunxisse Doctores vt intelligerent Pastores ad officium suum pertinere doctrinam Barr. ag Gyff inueighs for this cause against the Consistory of Geneâ—a Fr Iohns complaints of the Dutch and Fr. Churches Discription of a visible Church cannot make a Distinct. in the Definition of their Offices State of Christians 119. Descript. of vis Ch. H. Clap. Epist before his treatise of sinne ag the holy Ghost Brownists fourth Position Trouble and â—xcom at Amsterdam Fr. Iohns in a Letter to M. Smith Nulla necessitas maior est charitate Hâ—eron Apol. ad Ruff. Fr. Iun. de Eccl. Sed accidunt persaepe tempora quibus aut noua Ecclesia generatur aut altera pars interumpitur scilicet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 et tamen Ecclesia esse non dâ—sinit formà nimirum essentiali adhuc permanente Act 7. beg Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9. Meminisse diaconi debent quoniam Apostolos id est Episcopos praepositos Dominus elegit Diaconos autem post ascensum Domini in caelos Apostoli sibi constituerunt Episcopatus su Ecclesiae ministros Rom. 1. 8. 1. Cor. 1. 5. 1. Thess. 1. 7. Gal 4. 15. Phil. 1. 2. Sep. But also in our most sinfull subiection to many Antichristian
enormities which we are bound to eschue as hell Fr. Iohns ag M. Iacob Bar. Gyff refuted i. Transgress p. 28. Sep. She is our Mother o may she be and yet not the Lords wife euery mother of children is not a wife Ammi and Ruhaeâ—ah were bidden to plead with their mother Apostate Israel plead that she was not the Lords wife nor he her husband Ho. 2. 1. 2. Cypr. de simpliâ— Praelator Adulterari non potest sponsa Christi incorrupta est Pudica 1. Kin. 12. 29. Hos. 2. 16. 2. 13. Sep. And though you forbid vs a thousand times yet must we plead not to exccuse our fault but to iustify our innocency And that not only nor so much in respect of our selues as of the truth which without sacriledge we maynot suffer to be condeÌ„ned vnheard And if you yet heare her not rather blame yourselues as deafe then vs as dumb Hierom. ad Eustoch Epitaph Paulae ex Psal 67. August contr Epist. Parmen li. 1. Epistol Iuni. ad Separ Giff. refut 2. transg Sep. Is not babylon the mother of Gods people whom he therefore commandeth to depart out of her least being partakers of her sinnes they also partake of her plagues Reuel 18. 2. Answ. forâ— speach to Counter poys Sep. And to conclude what say you more against vs for your mother the Church of England then the Papists do for their mother and your mothers mother the Church of Rome against you whom they condemn as vn-naturall bastards and impious Patricides in your separations from her A Simone Zelota Niceph. Alij a Ios. Arimath cuius hic sepulchrum cernitur Angli Pascha Graeco more celebrarunt Iacob Armin. Disp Cant. 8. 8. Fr. Iun. lib sing de Eccle. Phil. Morn du Plesses Lib. de Eccles. cap. 10. Counterp p. 171. 1. Pâ—nry Exam. before M. Fanshaw Iust. Yong. Fr. Iun. l. de Eccles M. Hooker Eccles. pol. Du Plesses l. de Eccl Iacob Armin. disput D. Reynolds Thes. D. Feild of the Ch. Reuel 3. 2. Sep. And were not Luther Zuingliâ— Cranmer Latimer and the rest begot to the Lord in the wombe of the Romish Church did they not receiue the knowledge of his truth when they stood actuall members of it whoÌ„ notwithstanding afterwards they forsooke and that iustly for her fornications Sep. But here in the name of the Church of England you wash your hands of all Babylonish abominations which you pretend you haue forsaken and her for and with them And in this regard you speake thus The Reformation you haue made of the many and maine corruptions of the Romish Ch. we do ingenuously acknowledge and deâ— withall imbrace with you all the truths which to our knowledge you haue receiued in stead of them But Rome was not built all in a day 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hierom. Apol. aduers. Ruffi 1. l. 1. â—tissa est mihi â—audatio tua id est accusatio mea Bonum ex integra natura malum ex singulari defectu Sep. The mistery of iniquity did aduance it selfe by degrees and as the rise was so must the fall be That man of sinne and lawlesse man must languish and die away of a consumption 2. Thes. 2 8. And what though manie of the highest Towers of Babel and of the strongest Pillers also be demolished pulled down yet may the building stand still though tottering to and fro as it doth and only vnderpropped and vpheld with the shoulder and arme of flesh without which in a very moment it would fall flat vpon and lie leuell with the earth Bar. Gr. ag Giff. Confer Eam passim Peâ—â—y in his exa Sep. You haue renounced many false Doctrines in Popery and in theire placâ—s embraced the truth Exod. 1. 2. 3. c. Ier. 20. 1. Ier. 5. vlt. But what if this truth bee taught vnder the same hatefull Prelacy in the same deuised office of Ministery and confused communion of the prophane multitude and that mingled with many greeuous errors Iohns Pres. to his 7. Reas. Iohns 7. Reas. p. 66. Tit. 3. 4. Psal. 69. 4. Mat 28. 19. Eph. 4. 11. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 3. 1. Act. 13. 1. Tim. 3. 9. 1. Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Discourse of the Trouble excem at Amst. Certaine Arg. ag the Com. with the Minist of England Counterpoys Vbires convenit quis non verba contemnat August de Ordin 2. Brow state of Christians Perplexae sunt istae duae initates in hoc seculo inuicemque permixtae donec vltimo iudicto dirimantur Aug. de Ciuit. d. l. 1. 33. Eze. 18. 20. Orig. Vnusquisque propter proprium peccatum morietur in proprid iusticiâ viuet c. Fr. Iohns Artic. ag the Dutch Fr. Answ. ag Brough ton Discouer of Brown Troubles and excom at Amst. Charact. pres Cypr. Ep. 2. Iidem in publico accusatores in occulto rei in semetipsos censores pariter nocentes Damnant foris quod intus operantur â—arr Conser with M. Hutchins c. D. â—ndr Sep. Shall some generall truthâ—s yea though few of them in the particulars may bee foundly practised sweeten and sanctifie the other errours doth not one heresie make an hereticke and doth not a little leauen whether in Doctrine or manners leâ—uen the whol lumpe 1. Cor. 5. 6. Gal. 5 9. Hag. 2 13. If Antichrist held not many truthes wherewith should he countenance so many forgeries or how could his work be a mistery of iniquitie which in Rome is more grosse and palpable but in England spun with a finer threed and so more hardly discouered But to wade no further in vniuersalities wee will take a little time to examine such particulars as you your selfe haue picked out for your most aduantage to see whether you bee so cleare of Babels Towers in your owne euidence as you beare the world in hand Inquir into M. white p. 35. Mat. 13. 33. M. Bredwell Hierom. In hoc Ignoratis quia malo exemplo possunt plurimi interire Sed per vnius delictum in omne populum Indaeorum iram dei legimus adue nisse 1. Tim. 3. 16. Sep. Where say you are those proud towers of their Vniuersall Hierarchie One in Lambeth another in Fulham and wheresoeuer a pontificall Prelate is or his Chauncellor Commissary or other subordinate there is a Tower of Babel vnruinated To this end I desire to know of you whether the office of Arch-bishoppes Bishoppes and the rest of that ranke were not parts of that accursed Hierarchie in queene Maries dayes and members of that man of sinne If they were then as shoulders and armes vnder that head the Pope and ouer the inferiour members and haue now the same Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction deriued and continued vpon them wherof they were possessed in the time of Popery as it is plaine they haue by the first Parliament of queene Elizabeth Why are they not still members of that body though the head the Pope be cut off
7. Arg. 1. Answ. Counterpoys Character of the beast ag R. Clifton Arch-deacon Beatissimus Papa passiâ—n in Epist Ignat. ad Trallian Euseb. l. 3. Ex Euseb. Hier. Catalog script Epiph. â—nio c. Cal. Instit l. 4. Hieron Euagrio Heming Potest Eccles. clas 3. c. 10. Hinc Ecclesia purior secuta tempora Apostolorum fecit alios Patriarchas quorum erat curare vt Episcupi cuiusque dâ—ocescos rite eligerentur vt suum munus Episcopi singuli probe administrarent c. Arist. Pol. 7. Potentia diuitiarum pauper tatis humilitas vel humiliorem vel inferiorem Episcopum non facit Hieron Euagr. Sep. And so do all the Reformed Churches in the world of whose testimony you boast so loud renounce the Prelacy of England as part of that Pseudo-Clergie and Antichristian Hierarchie deriued from Rome Answ. Counterpoys 3 Consid. Ps. 10. 7. Bez. de ministr Euang. c. 18. Cited also by D. Down p. 29. Heming Iudicat caeteros ministros suis Episcopis obtem perare debere Potest Eccles. c. 10. Article 21 Sep. Infallibility of iudgement It seemes the sacred so called Synode assumeth little lesse vnto her selfe in her determinations otherwise how durst she decree so absolutely as she doth touching things reputed indifferent viz. that all men in all places must submit vnto them without exception or limitation Except she could infallibly determine that these her ceremonies thus absolutely imposed should edifie all men at all times how durst she thus impose them To exact obedience in and vnto them whether they offend or offend not whether they edifie or destroy were intollerable presumption Obligatio fine coercione nalla Reg. Iur. Non iura dicenda sunt c. de Ciuitat l. 19. Answ. to the Admon p. 279. cited also by D. Sparkes p. 14. Aug. Ep. 86. In his enim rebus de quibus nihâ—â— certi statuit scriptura diuina mos populi Dei vel instituta maiorum pro lege tenenda sunt Liâ—ius Decad. 4. l. 4. Nulla lex satis commoda omnibus est id modo quaeritur si maiori parti in summa prodest Cum consedissent sancti religiosi Episcopi Bin. Tom. 1. p. 239. Sancta Synod Carthagi 4. sub Anastasio 553. Sancta Pacifica Synod Antiocben 1. p. 420. Sancta dei Apostolica Synodus 413. Peruenit ad sanctam synodum can Nic. 18. 309. Sancta synod Laâ—dicena 288. Sep. Dispensations with the lawes of God and sins of men To let passe your Ecclesiasticall consistories wherein sins and absolutions from them are as venall and saleable as at Rome Is it not a law of the Eternall God that the Ministers of the Gospell the Bishops or Elders should be apt and able to teach 1. Tim 3 2. Tit. 1. 9. and is it not their greeuous sin to be vnapt hereunto Esa 56. 10 11. And. yet who know-not that the Patrons amongst you present that the Bishops institute the Archdeacons induct the Churces receiâ—e and the Lawes both Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall allow and iustify Ministers vnapt and vâ—able to teach G. Ioh. Trou and Exco at Amste Insufficiency 〈◊〉 resideâ—cy of Ministers Insufficiency non residency of Ministers Sep. Is it not a law of the eternall God that the Elders should feede the flocke ouer which they are set labouring amongst them in the word and doctrine Act. 20. 28. 1. Pet 5. 1. 2. and is it not sinne to omit this duety Can. 34. M. Hooker 5. b. Eccles. Pol. Pag. 26. 3. D. Down of the office and dignity of the Miâ—ist Dispensations for pluralities Sep. Plead not for Baall Your dispensations for Non-residency pluralities of Benefices as for two three or more yea tot quot as many as a man will hauâ—e or can get are so many dispensations with the lawes of God and sinnes of men These things are too impious to be defended and too manifest to be denyed Counterpoys p. 179. Dist. 34. Can. lector Papa potest contra Apostolum dispensare Caus. 25. q. 1. Can. sunt quidam Dispensatin Euangelio c. De concess praebend Tit. 8. Can. Proposuit Secundum plenituâ— inem potestatis de iure possumus supra ius dispensare Glossa paulo insr. Papa contra Apostolum dispensat c. Sum. confer p. 52. M. VVhites discou Bar. ag Gyff Inconst. of Brow p. 113 Ibid. Inquir into Th. VVhite Sep. Disposition of Kingdomes and Deposition of Princes You are wiser and I hope honester then thus to attempt thogh that receiued maxime amongst you No ceremony no Bishoppe no Bishoppe no King sauors too strongly of that weed but what though you be loyall to earthly Kings and their crownes and Kingdomes yet if you be Traytors and rebels against the King of his Church Iesus Christ and the scepter of his Kingdome not suffering him y his lawes and officers to reigne ouer you but in stead of them do stoupe to Antichrist in his offices and ordinances shall your loyaltie towards men excuse your treasons against the Lord though you now crie neuer so lowd we haue no King but Caesar Ioh. 19. 15. yet is there an other King one Iesus which shall returne and passe a heauy doome vpon the rebellious Luc. 19. 27. These enemies which would not haue me reigne ouer them bring them and slay them before me P. 36. Es. 36. 13. Sep. Parting stakes with God in conâ—ersion Not to speake of the errour of vniuersall grace and consequently of freewil that groweth on apace amongst you what doe you else but put in for a part with God in conuersion though not through freedome of will yet in a deuised Ministery the meanes of conuersion it being the Lords peculiar as well to appoint the outward Ministery of conuersion as to giue the inward grace 1. Cor. 3. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 De Consecr d. 2. Ego Bereng Apol. Sep. Where say you are those rotten heapes of Transubstantiating of bread And where say I learned you your deuout kneeling to or before the bread but from that error of TransubstantiatioÌ„ Yea what lesse can it insinuate then eyther that or some other the like Idolatrous conceipt If there were not something more in the bread and wine then in the water at Baptisme or in the word read or preached Why should such solemne kneeling be so seuerely pressed at that time rather then vpon the other occasions And well and truely haue your own men affirmed that it were farre lesse sinne and appeareance of an Idolatry that is nothing so grosse to tye men in their prayers to kneele before a Crucifixe then before the bread and wine and the reason followeth for that papists commit an Idolatry farre more grosse and odious in worshipping the bread then in worshipping any other of their Images or Idols whatsoeuer Apol of the Min. of Lincoln Dioc. part 1. pag. 66. Sep. Adoring of Images To let passe your deuout kneeling vnto your Ordinary when you take the Oath of Canonicall obedience or
the charges your ringing of hallowed bels for the soule your singing the Corpes to the graue from the Church style your praying ouer or for the dead especially in these words That God wold hasten his kingdome that we with this our brother though his life were neuer so wretched and death desperate and all other departed in the true faith of thy holy name may haue our perfect consummation both in body and soule Sleeping-places Caemiteria Euseb. l. 7. c. 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Splendid ssimae sepulturae tradidit Eus. l. 7. c. 15 Curatio funeris conditio sepulturae pompa exequiarum magis sunt viuorum solatia quam subsidia mortuorum Aug. de Ciuit l. 1. c. 12. Si enim paterna vestis annulus anto char est posteris nullo modo ipsa spernenda sunt corpora Aug de Ciuit. l. 1. c. 13. Orig. contr Cels. l. 8. Rationolem animam honorare didicimus c. Sep. Your generall doctrines and your particular practises agree in this as in the most other things like Harpe and Harrow In word you professe many truthes which in deede you denie These and many mo popish deuises by others at large discouered to the world both for pompe and profite are not onely not rased and buried in the dust but are aduanced amongst you aboue all that is called God Sep. You are farre from doing to the Romish Idols as was done to the Aegyptian Idols Mythra and Serapis whole prieâ—â—s were expelled their Ministery and Monuments exposed to vtter scorn and desolation their Temples demolished and raced to the very foundation Socrat. Hist. Eccles. l. 5. c. 16. 7. Bed hâ—st Eccl. l. 1. Cit. Gregor Ep. Aug suoc 30. Edilbeâ—toregi c. 32. Contra sibi c. Sed Hâ—râ—ticoruÌ„ templa vastata a Constantino Euseb. l. 3. c. 63. Aug. de ciuit l. 8 c. 27. Hocker 5. b. c. 13 Id Aug. contr Maxâ—min Arian Nonne sitemplum c. Optat. Mileuitâ—n lib. 6. I. auistis proculdubiâ— pallas Iudicate quid de codicâ— bus secistis Aut vtrâ—mque lauate aut c. Sâ— quod tangit aspectus lauandum est vt parietes c. Videmus rectum videmus coeluÌ„ c. haec a vobis lauari non possunt Athanas. Apol. Euseb. de vita Const. Otho Friâ—ing l. â— c. 3. Sep. But your temples especially your Cathedrall and mother Churches stand still in their proude Maiestie possessed by Arch Bishops and Lordbishops like the Flamins and Archssamins amongst the Gentiles from whom they were deriued Lumb lib. 4. dâ—st 24. Isid. l. 7. Eâ—imol cap 12 and furnished with all manner of pompous and superstitious monuments as â—arued and paynted Images massing Copes and surplices chaunting and Organ-musicke and many other glorious ornaments of the Romish Harlot by which her Maiesty is commended to and admired by the vulgar so farr are you in these respects for being gon or flâ—d yea or crept either out of Babylon Theuphilus Epâ—sâ— cum â—aeteras sâ—â—tuas deorum confiâ—ngeret vâ—am integram seruari iâ—â—sst eamque in loco publico eâ—exit vt Gentiles tempore progrediente non inficiarentur se â—umsmâ—di Dâ—us colâ—sse 〈◊〉 Grammatâ— us hac dere valded scruciatus Dixit grauem plagam religioni Grâ—corum inctâ—â—â—m quod illa vna statcia noâ— euerteretur Socrat. l. 5. c. 16. Sep. Now if you be thus Babylonish where you repute your selues most Syonlike and thus confounded in your owne euidence what defence could you make in the things wherof an aduersary would challenge you If your light be darkenesse how great is your darknes Sep. But for that not the separation but the cause makes the schismaticke and least you should seeme to speak euill of the thing you know not and to condemne a cause vnheard you lay downe in the next place the supposed cause of our separation against which you deale as insufficiently And that you pretend to bee none other then your consorting with the Papist in certaine Ceremonies touching which and our separation in regard of them thus you write M. H. If you haue taken but the least knowledge of the grounds of our iudgement and practise how dare you thus abuse both vs and the reader as if the onely or chiefe grouÌ„d of our separatioÌ„ were your popish ceremonies but if you go only by guesse hauing neuer so much as read ouer one treatise published in our defeÌ„ce yet stick not to passe this your censorious doom both vpon vs it I leaue it to the reader to iudge whether you haue beene more lauish of your censure or credit Most vniust is the censure of a cause vnknowne though in it selfe neuer so blame-worthy which neuerthelesse may be prais-worthy for ought he knowes that censures it Inq into M. VVhite * VVhich vpon the Lords prayer hath confuted some positions of that sect Bar. Grecuâ— passim Penâ— Exam. Sep. And touching the ceremonies here spoken of howsoeuer we haue formerly refused them submitting as all others did and dâ—e to the Prelates spirituall Iurisdiction herein through ignorance strayning at Gnats and swallowing Camels yet are we verily perswaded of them and so were before we separated that they are but as leaues of that tree and as badges of that man of sinne whereof the Pope is head and the prelates shoulders And so we for our parts see no reason why any of the Bishops sworne seruants as all the Ministers in the Church of England are Canonically should make nice to weare their Lords liueryes Which ceremonies notwithstanding wee know wel enough howsoeuer you for aduantage extenuate and debase them vnto vs to be aduanced and preferred in your Church before the preaching of the Gospell 1. Cor. 4. 1. Hierom. in Ps. 44. Heming Class 3 Potest Eccles. c. 10. Vtcuique suus clerus sua plebs in his quae Domini sunt piè obsequerentur Ignat. Epi. ad Tarsens Sep. It is much that they being not so much as Reede nor any part of the building as you pretend should ouerturne the best builders amongst you as they doe Sep. The proportion betwixt Zoar them holdes well Zoar was a neighbour vnto Sodome both in place and sinne and obnoxious to the same destruction with it and it was â—ots errour to desire to haue it spared Gen. 19. 15 18 19 20 and so he neuer found rest nor peace in it but forsooke it for feare of the same iust iudgement which had ouertaken the rest of the Cities vers 30. The application of this to your ceremonies I leaue to your selfe and them to that destruction to which they are deuoted by the Lord. Fidem Domino habere debuerat quise cam seruaturum propter cumdixerat Mercer in Genes Sep. How we wold haue behaued our selues in the Temple where the mony-changers were and they that solde Doues we shal answere you when you proue your Church to be the Temple of God compiled and built of spiritually-hewen
and liuely stones 1. Kin. 5. 17. 18 6. 7. 1. pet 2. 5. and of the Cedars Firs and Thyne trees of Lebanon 2. Chr. 2. 8. framed and set together in that comely order which a greater then Salomon hath prescriâ—ed vnto which God hath promised his presence But whilst we take it to be as it is a confused heape of dead and defiled and polluted stones and of all rubbish of Bryers and brambles of the wildernesse for the most part fitter for burning then building we take our selues rather bound to shew our obedience in departing from it then our valour in purging it and to follow the prophets councel in flying out of Babylon as the hee goats before the flock Ieâ— 50. 8 Sep. And what I pray you is the valour which the best hearted and most zealous Reformers amongst you haue manifested in driuing out the Mony-changers doth it not appeare in this that they suffer themselues to be driuen out with the two stringed Whippe of Ceremonies and subscription by the Mony-changers the Chancellers and Officials which sell. sinnes like Doues and by the chiefe priests the Bishoppes which set them on worke so farre are the most zealous amongst you from driuing out the Mony-changers as they themselues are driuen out by them because they will not change with them to the vtmost farthing Bar. Refor without Tar. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVee charge him not to serue any more So Can. 15. Can. 25. Cum compertuÌ„ fuerit deponatur Can. 10. De Clericatus honore periclitabitur Can. 2. E clero deponatur sit alienus a Canone Can. 17. et Can. 18. A ministerio cessare debuerit Concil Sardic c. 4. CoÌ„cil Carth. 4. c. 48. 56. 57. Leo. Ep. 1. Sect. 5. Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9. Sâ—cr l. 2. c. 21. Bar ag Gyff p. 27. 88. Sep. For the Wafers in Geneua and disorders in Corinth they were corruptions which may and doe or the like vnto them creep into the purest Churches in the world for the reformation wherof Christ hath giuen his power vnto his Church that such euils as are brought in by humane frailty may by diuine authority bee purged out This power and presence of Christ you want holding all by homage or rather by vilenage vnder the Prelates vnto whose sinfull yoake you stoup in more then Babylonish bondage bearing and approuing by personall communion infinite abhominations Troubl Excom at Amsterd An tu solus Ecclesia es Et qui te offenderit a Christo excluditur Hieron Eriphan Cypr. Solus in caelum ascend Pupianus Et ad Acesium Nouatianum Constant. Erigito tibi scalam Acesi ad caelum solus ascendito Socr. l. 1. C. 7. Bar. Gyff ref So some of their owne haue termed their excommunication Confess by M. Iohns Inqu p. 65 Col. 1. 18. Sep. And in these two last respects principally your Babylonish confusion of all sorts of people in the body of your Church without separation and your Babylonish bondage vnder your spirituall Lords the Prelates we account you Babylon and flie from you Amari Parens Episcopus debet non timeri Hier. ad Theophilum Sep. M. H hauing formerly expostulated with vs our supposed impietie in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon in England proceeds in the next place to lay downe our madnesse in chusing a substantiall Babylon in Amsterdam and if it be so found by due trial as he suggesteth it is hard to say whether our impiety or madnes be the greater Sep. Belike M. H. thinkes we gather churches here by towne-rowes as they doe in England and that all within the parish procession are of the same Church Wherefore else tels hee vs of Iewes Arrians and Anabaptists with whom we haue nothing common but the streetes and market-place It iâ— the condition of the Church to liue in the world and to haue ciuill society with the men of this world 1. Cor. 5. 10. Ioh. 17. 13. But what is this to that spirituall communion of the saints in the fellowshippe of the Gospell wherin they are separated and sanctified from the world vnto the Lord Ioh 17. 16. 1. Cor. 1. 2. Cor. 6. 17. 18. Separation from the world how required Ioh. 17. 16. 1. Cor. 1. 2. 1. Cor. 3. 3. Sep. We indeed haue much wickednes in the Citie where we liue you in the Church â—ut in earnest doe you imagine we account the Kingdome of England Babylon or the citie of Amsterdam Syon It is the Church of England or state Ecclesiasticall which we account Babylon and from which we withdraw in spirituall communion â—ut for the common-wealth and Kingdome as we honor it aboue all the states in the world so wold we thankfully embrace the meanest corner in it at the extreamest conditions of any people in the Kingdome Cassand de Offic boni viri Bellar. de Laicis Euseb. in vita Const. Fr. Iohns Articles ag the Frâ— and Dutch Churches Bar. ag Gyss Counrtepoys Sep. The hellish impieties in the citie of Amsterdam doe no more preiudice our heauenly communion in the Church of Christ then the frogs lyce flyes moraine and other plagues ouerspreading Egypt did the Israelites when Goshen the portion of their inheritance was free Exod 8. 19. nor then the deluge wherewith the whole world was couered did Noah when he and his family were safe in the Arke Gen. 7. nor then sathans throne did the Church of Pergamus being established in the same citie with it Reâ— 2. 12 13. Sep. It is 〈◊〉 will of God and of Christ that his Church should abide in the world and conuerse with it in the affaires therof which are common to both But it is the Apostasie of Antichrist to haue communion with the vvorld in the holy things of God which are the peculiars of the Church and cannot without great sacriledge be so prostituted and prophaned Duobus modâ— non te maâ—ulat malus vidâ—licet si non consentis si redargâ—is d. 23. q. 4. a malis Sep. The ayre of the Gospell which you draw in is nothing so free and cleare as you make shevv it is only because you are vsed to it that makes you so iudge 1. Canons Sep. The thicke smoake of your Canons especially of such as are planted against the Kingdome of Christ the visible Church and the administration of it do both obscure and poyson the ayre which you all draw in and wherein you breath 2. Sinne vncensured Sep. The plaguy-spirituall-leprosie of sinne rising vp in the foreheads of so many thousands in the Church vnshut vp vncouered infects all both persons and things amongst you Leu. 13. 45. 46. 47. 2. cor 6 17. Certe nullius crimen maculat nescientem Aug. Ep. 48. 1. Reg. 19. 18. 3. Heirarchy Sep. The blasting Hierarchie suffers no good thing to grow or prosper but withers all both budde and branch 4. Seruice-booke Sep. The daily sacrifice of the seruice-booke which in stead of spirituall prayer sweete as incense you offer vp morning and