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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A45154	A reply to the defence of Dr. Stillingfleet being a counter plot for union between the Protestants, in opposition to the project of others for conjunction with the Church of Rome / by the authors of the Modest and peaceable inquiry, of the Reflections, (i.e.) the Country confor., of the Peaceable designe.	Humfrey, John, 1621-1719.; Lobb, Stephen, d. 1699.	1681 (1681)	Wing H3706; ESTC R8863	130,594	165

Realm to the fixing the desired Firm and lasting Union among all sorts of sound Protestants These Assemblies once established as so many Compleat Particular Churches whose Pastors have full Power for the Administring all Ordinances and the exercising Discipline over those who do freely and of choice submit thereunto may notwithstanding lesser Differences be considered as United unto one another in that they Profess the same Faith Preach the same Word and Administer the same Sacraments For the Proof hereof consult the Necessary Erudition where t is said That the Unity of the Holy Church of Christ is not divided by Distance of Place nor by Diversity of Traditions and Ceremonies diversesly observed in divers Churches for good Order of the same And though in Traditions Opinions and Policies there was some Diversity among them i.e. the Churches of Corinth of Ephese c. likewise as the Church of England Spain Italy Pole be not separate from the Unity but be one Church in God notwithstanding that among them there is great distance of Place Diversity of Traditions not in all things Unity of Opinions Alteration in Rites Ceremonies and Ordinances or Estimation of the same such Diversity in Opinions and other outward Manners and Customes of Policy doth not dissolve and break the Unity which is in One God One Faith One Doctrine of Christ and his Sacraments preserv'd and kept in these several Churches without any Superiority or Preheminence that one Church by Gods Law may or ought to Challenge over another Thus Particular Parochial or Congregational Churches may be United in One God One Faith One Doctrine of Christ and his Sacraments even where there is some difference between them in lesser matters What though in one Parish there is a Liturgy in another a Directory shall this hinder Union Don't even the Papists themselves acknowledge that the Church of England was very closely United even among themselves notwithstanding the several different Offices there were in use among us in the times of Popery One Office after the use of Sarum another after the use of York of Bangor c. and yet all United Moreover what more common than to observe many little differences in Civil Corporations even where they are all United in one head A consideration sufficient to evince the Union of Parochial Churches to be Possible notwithstanding some Remaining Differences in Customs c. In these Kingdoms there are a multitude of Particular Corporations and little Policies whose Customs and modes of Government within themselves are very Different The particular Laws by which they are govern'd as a Particular Body Corporate are of as many different kinds as there are Cities Towns or Parishes but yet All United in that they swear Alleigance to his Majesty and submit themselves to the General Laws of the Land The different Customs of different places do not in the least break the Union of the Nation And why may it not be so in the Church What Reason can there be given why the Union of many a Civil Society or Association may be notwithstanding the different Customes are among them but the Union of many Particular-Parochial-Churches cannot be unless they all agree in every little thing Methinks it is as Reasonable to plead for a destroying the Particular Customes and Charters of Burroughs Corporations and Cities as the only way to Union in the Civil Government as 't is to assert That nothing but an Uniformity among every Parochial or Congregational Church can Unite us in the Ecclesiastical What though there are some differences among Parochial Churches as to their Customes and modes of Worship so long as they agree in One Faith One Lord One Baptism So long as they all Profess the same Faith Preach the same Word Administer the same Sacraments and submit unto the same Civil Government So long as they all Swear Allegiance to to their Prince and Subscribe any Test to assure the World they are sound Protestants the which being so what hinders a firm and lasting Union Certainly This is enough to shew that their Union if no more is as much as that between One City and another One Corporation and another and that their differences are no greater if so great than those between one City and another The which being so An Altering the Present Laws about Conformity and an Establishing such New ones as shall be Judged necessary by our Governours for the defence and safety of a Parochial or Congregational Church-Discipline as well as for the Regulating his Majesties Officers Circa Sacra will Unite us and put an end to that Horrid sin of Schism that hath these many years abounded in the midst of us Let the Dissenters be permitted to Embrace the Laws and Customes of their Fore-fathers in the Apostles days about Church-Discipline and the Mode of Worship and they are Relieved the which may be done without any Injury to the Conscience of any sound Protestant of the Episcopal Perswasion I say 2. This cannot but satisfie any moderate Episcoparian who may if he please firmly abide by those Ceremonies he now doth He may still Read the same Prayers among such as are of his own Opinion He may wear the same Vestments and address himself to his Majesties Officer the Lord Bishop as unto his Ordinary for Councel and Advice And if his Ordinary or Diocesan be an Elder for that is left to the Supream Magistrate to appoint he may look on him though in truth as such he being only the Kings Officer Circa Sacra as a Bishop who is of an Order Superiour to that of a Presbyter and so exercise Disciplene as he Receives Encouragement from him If there be any entring on the Ministry who think a Diocesane Episcopacy to be Jure Divino and is called unto a Parish or Congregation of the same Judgment This Candidate may if the Kings Officer be an Elder and of the same mind with him apply himself unto him as unto his Diocesane and receive Orders from him and do all things as now unless our Governours Judge meet to make any Alteration as to the use of some Ceremonies Only let none be by Law compelled to do so Let those that are so weak as to think a Diocesane Episcopacy to be of Divine Right enjoy the Liberty of their Consciences the which being attended but with the vouchsafing the like Liberty unto others I know not why they may not be satisfied We are not for the Pulling down Lord Bishops nor for an Alienating Church Lands If it seem good to our Governours to continue them we only desire that the Nature of their Office be declared to be no other than what it was Antiently in this Kingdom which is That they are meerly the Kings Creatures That all they do must be in the Kings Name and by vertue of a Commission receiv'd from him That as such they are only the Kings Magistrates that act Circa Sacra That their work is only to see that the Bishops or Presbyters

relief if such as our Author could prevent They must do all you exact or else no peace to be expected they must comply with every iota or no Union Moreover when they have conformed to every impos'd iota they must also separate themselves from all the good Christians in the Land that are not of their persuasion in every thing or be still Schismatical yea though a man conforms if he be more of a C●ristia● temper than our hot and fiery Author that is if he be but compassi nate towards Dissenters shewing a tenderness to their Consciences 't is enough to make him the object of their rage Witness he Countrey Conformist who notwithstanding the greatness of his Learning and the excellency of his temper discovered in his Remarks is treated by the Dean's Substitute Pref. p. 6. as one who is for raising a Civil War for the pulling down Church and State to set up a Presbyterian Parity Thus they deal with such as are for Peace and yet would be thought to be for great Abatements for peace sake as men sincerely dispos'd to unite with us that is they are so if it may be without parting with one iota for Union The High-flown Conformists with whom only our present Controversie is are very much for Union even when 't is most obvious that the utmost they are for is the exposing the Dissenter Let the Dissenters do what they can these men will not be pleased There are several sizes among the Dissenters some can Conscientiously do more for Union than others can but they that do the most are not freer from the lash of their Tongues and Pens nor from the execution of their Laws than the other If they come not to Church then they are Disobedient Seditious Factions and what not If they do go to the Church they are Judasses Catalines Protean Religionists Hobbists c. These things consider'd Let any moderate man judge what 't is they 'll part with for Union what are those Iota's Not that I accuse all Conformists but a few even those only who are of the same stamp with our Author who seem to raze the foundations of the present Constitution For I am confident that there are many of the very Clergy who desire nothing so much as the Peace of the Church and the relieving tender Consciences And as for the Magistracy 't is evident that as few or none delight to execute the Laws against Dissenters even so 't is in the heart of our Sovereign the House of Lords and of the Commons of England that an Expedient be found out for the uniting Protestants and the easing those burdens that have so long lain on Dissenters so that through God's Grace we may see a happy Union among Protestants even when the Dean and his Substitute will not part with an Iota for it But you 'll say the Dr. makes Proposals for Union in the very Preface against which I write Answ 1. If the Doctor contradicts himself whose fault is that But 2. 'T is true the Dean made a Proposal of some Abatements in order unto Union but unto whom Let our skilful Interpreter the Dean's Substitute declare The Dean saith We do heartily and sincerely desire Union c. The meaning of which is saith our Dean's Interpreter that we are sincerely willing to make any Condescensions for Peace-sake which will not overthrow the Church of England nor insinuate a false and scandalous Accusation of the Unlawfulness of our Constitution and Rites of Worship which we cannot do with a safe Conscience because we believe the contrary c. And we are not so charitable to give ease to other mens Consciences to injure our own and thereby condemn the Reformation c. In answer unto this I must say what I did unto the Dean Enquiry p. 33. It must be observed That Dissenters not Conforming to Episcopacy and Ceremonies is a judging them Unlawful which is in the Opinion of our Churchmen a casting a Reproach and Dishonour on the Reformation of the Church of England c. To which I add That the Churches parting with any of those Rites of Worship which the Dissenters cannot conscienciously comply with may insinuate into the minds of some men the Notion of their Unlawfulness Whence if there must be no Abatements made but such as do not insinuate an Unlawfulness in the Episcopal Constitution nor in the Rites of Worship what manner of Abatements can there be made 'T is evident then that the Doctor 's Proposal made with such Restrictions and Limitations for Union is but a more plausible way of denying it But what is the great Reason why there must be no such compliance as may be attended with such Insinuations but this 'T is inconsistent with the Honour of the Reformation or rather of the Reformers For I remember that when the talk was about blasting the Honour of the first Reformation the meaning was the casting a reproach upon Cramner Ridley c. the first Reformers And why may we not understand it now in the same sense in this place And if so How is the Charge untrue or how comes it to be either Impudent or Malicious But here is the Talk of Conscience They cannot do it with safe Conscience this surprizeth me What! Is the Dean and his Defender fal● into such an hot fit of Fanaticisme as to talk of their not being able to make any Abatements in the fore-described sense with a safe Conscience How comes this about I am hereby inclin'd to think That they make the Scripture the Rule not only of their Doctrines but Worship and Discipline a Pres●yterian Principle And that 't is the Opinion of their Consciences that Episcopacy is of Divine Right and consequently Unalterable For they must not admit of any thing contrary to the Opinion of their Consciences still Fanaticisme a justifying the Dissenter who cannot Consciencously Conform Only there is an untoward Insinuation in 't on the Doctor 's part namely That the Episcopal Constitution is of Divine Right and that our Church-men are not overmuch owing to our Governours for its Establishment That if our Governours should go about to make any Alteration in the present Constitution they offend God For which our Governours won't give them any great thanks But sure a mans Conscience may permit another whom he cannot change to do that which it will not permit himself to do Thus having considered the Overt acts of the Enquirers pretended Immodesty let our Author make the most on 't and let the Reader judge Whether there was not somewhat more than the Reflection on the Enquirer that brought forth his first Chapter Whether his propensions to favour our Common Enemy the Papist were not stronger than his Aversions to the Enquirers Immodesty Here I would have put an end unto this Chapter had it not been requisite to take some notice of the like Treatment which he affords Mr. Baxter Mr. Humfrey the Country-Conformist and Doctor Owen Not that

and favourable a Disposition towards the PAPISTS They were grown strangely MODERATE towards these OLD ENEMIES of our Church and State New PROJECTS of RECONCILING of us were set on foot and Books were written to distinguish the Church of Rome from the Court of Rome One of those Books which was Printed the year before the Discovery of the Plot pretends That there ought to be a Difference made between Papists of LOYAL and DISLOYAL Principles This Book as it was written more ARTIFICIALLY than the rest and Published in so Critical and Dangerous a Juncture deserves and I doubt not in time will have a particular Consideration 'T is easie to believe how great Encouragement this must give to the ROMANISTS to see how very willing men were to meet them and how freely the Pen was drawn in their Favour By this time the Reader may easily see who 't is that is subservient to the Popish Design and without any further help clearly perceive what is the Tendency of our Author's Discourse There remaineth only one objection which calls for our observation the which can be no sooner remov'd but the Reader may be fully satisfied in this viz. That 't is not impossible for one who Assents and Consents to the Thirty nine Articles the Book of Common-prayer and of Homilies to drive on a French not to say a Popish Design The Objection that occurs to a common capacity is How can such that give in Assent and Consent to all that is said of the excellency of the present Establishment do any thing that tends to its subversion The Answer is easie You must distinguish between the sayings and the things assented and consented unto For you do not Assent unto the Sayings though about the excellency of the present Establishment but the Things for saith he p. 105. We do not give our Assent to every saying in the Common-prayer-book but to every thing which is contained in and prescrib'd by it that is what we are bound to use Whence observe That seeing a Papist can comply with all the Ceremonies in use even when he cannot Assent to all the Sayings in the Common-prayer-book he may give in his Assent and Consent and be as true a Son of the Church of England as our Author is SECT III. A Third Overt-act of the Enquirers pretended Immodesty examined The aversness of the Dean and his Substitute to a Protestant Union proved Their falling in with the Dissenters about conscience considered Some Remarks on the Author's modest treatment of others THE Enquirer charges the Dean and some of the Episcopal to be against any compliances with the Dissenter as if they set a greater value on the Honour and Reputation of men than on Union or the relieving tender consciences which is said to be a malicious and impudent charge Words very modest as they drop from our Author's pen To this I 'le reply if possibly modestly without passing any further censure on the heat with which the Deans Defender expresseth himself 'T is true I did charge the Dean and some others of the Episcopal as persons who would not condescend to part with the least Iota for Union for these Reasons 1. The Dissenters have used all just means but without success for the obtaining of it 2. Some of the Episcopal Clergy have for these last Twenty years made it their business to stir up Authority to a severe execution of such Laws as were made against Dissenters 3. They were not ashamed to expose His Majesty to the great contempt of His people when he began to shew pity and compassion to the oppressed Dissenters What Invectives came out after it What Satyrical Declamations against it 4. The Dr. himself judg'd a severe execution of Laws against Dissenters to be the most effectual means for the obtaining a firm and a lasting Union And therefore 1. Preached that Sermon which has been the shameful occasion of our late contests Thus they press for a Comformity as the only way to Union as if there can be no Union among Christians without such Uniformity 2. He so states the case between Relief and no Relief to Dissenters as to incline more for no Relief He hath but Three Arguments for Relief and Six against it Dr. Stil Preface p. 53 54. 3. He inveighs against a boundless Toleration as the Mother of all confusion and then tells us That the suspension of Penal Laws against Protestant Dissenters is to open the Flood-gates to such a boundless Toleration and yet they are for great Abatements In fine 't is remarkable That notwithstanding the many Protestations made of a propension toward a real union between Conformist and Nonconformist nothing is more notoriously evident than that those among the Dissenters who are mostly disposed to some compliances with the Episcopal are above all others hated and contemned by such as our Author There are some among Dissenters namely the Reverend Mr. Baxter and Mr. Humphrey whose Moderation in these things hath been ever since their ejection for their Nonconformity practically discover'd to the whole Kingdom They frequently attend on the Conformists Ministry not scrupling to be present at their prayers nor at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper Yea they shew with the greatest evidence desirable That their disposition toward the accommodating the matters in difference between Conformist and Nonconformist is such that nothing but apparent sin should hinder their conformity But yet none more expos'd to contempt by the Dean and his Substitute than these men 'T is Mr. Baxter who writes in a continued fit of anger 'T is he is the man to be pitied and no wonder for his Substitute gives great reason for it viz. Mr. B. is the Judas the most dangerous Enemy that lodges in the bosome of the Church a Cataline a Protean Religionist who transforms himself into all shapes and differs from the Hobbist only in this That the Hobbist is for being always of his Prince's Religion but he is always for being against it P. 234. This is the character which the Dean's Defender gives of that Reverend and Peaceable Divine Mr. Baxter and that principally because he is so much inclin'd to unite with the Conformist as if the Gentleman and such as are of his Gang were afraid of a Protestant Union But Sir is this the way to Union Is this the way to peace What to let out all your wrath and rage and fury against such as are most peaceable and ready to unite with you What thinking and unbiassed mind can be persuaded to conclude That those very men who after such an unclean and indecent manner revile the peace-maker are in love with peace Is it possible that he who considers so complying a person as Mr. Baxter is to be for that reason a Judas a Cataline a Protean Religionist should be pleased with his compliances This certainly doth but discover That if the Nonconformists could conscientiously conform to more than really they can it would not conduce to their

q. d. as what is not according to the word of God All this being most plain and obvious to an ordinary Capacity that is not biassed by Prejudice c. Let the world judge who is in the FAULT They who keep close to Scripture or they who recede therefrom They who will do any thing but Sin for Peace Or they who will exercise their Authority and impose unnecessary things with the greatest Violence imaginable I say with the greatest Violence imaginable for they are impos'd with such a severe Threatning anrex'd that whoever refuses a compliance is cut off from the Catholick Church and given over to the Devil Hence 't is that they imposing Indifferent things as necessary to Salvation do according to Dr. Stillingfleet's own Rule declare themselves to be the Schismatical Dividers I say according to Dr. Stillingfleet's own Rule compar'd with his Substitutes Notion In the Doctor 's Unreasonableness of Separation p. 213. he saith That there are three Cases wheren the Scripture allow of Separation The last of which is When men make things Indifferent Necessary to Salvation and divide the Church upon that account and this was the Case of the false Apostles who urged the Ceremonies of the Law as necessary to Salvation Now although St. Paul himself complied sometimes with the practice of them Yet when these false Apostles came to enforce the Observation of them as necessary to Salvation then he bids the Christians at Philippi to beware of them i. e. To fly their Communion and have nothing to do with chem From this Rule of Dr. Stillingfleet it must follow That if the Church of England make things Indifferent Necessary to Salvation our Separation from the Church is allowed by the Scriptures yea commanded and enjoyned We must beware of 'em i. e. to fly their Communnion and have nothing to do with them But that things Indifferent are made necessary by the Church of England according to his Doctrine doth appear irrefragably That which is Necessary to our Communion with the Catholick Church is according to his Doctrine necessary to Salvation But Indifferent things are Necessary to our Communion with the Church of England which is One with the Communion with the Catholick Church in that according to him they are made necessary to our Communion with the Church of England which is One with the Communion with the Catholique Church according to his constant Judgment Ergo. Or in other Terms Whatever is made necessary to our being Members of the Catholique Church is made necessary to Savation for to be Members of the Catholick Church and to be in a state of Salvation is the same and to be Members of the particular Church of England and Members of the Catholick Church is one and the same with our Author p. 248. As if it had been said To be Members of the Church of England is to be in a state of Salvation but not to be Members of the Church of England is to be out of a state of Salvation Whence what is made necessary to our being Members of the Church of England is made necessary to our Salvation that is The many indifferent Ceremonies impos'd as terms of our Communion with the Church of England are made necessary for Salvation according to our Author For which reason the Scripture allows our Separation yea the Scripture bids us beware of her that is to fly her Communion and have nothing to do with her Thus the Doctor in conjunction with his Substitute furnishes us with an unanswerable Argument to clear the Dissenter from the odious Sin of Schism which in short is this From such as make Indifferent things Necessary to Salvation we must Separate This is Dr. Stillingfleet's But the Church of England makes Indifferent things necessary to Salvation This is the Dr's Substitutes Notion Ergo We may yea we must Separate that is 'T is the Will of God we should Separate or 't is our Duty and therefore not our Sin to separate i. e. We are not the Schismaticks This is Argumentum ad Hominem and either this Author must quit his Doctrine or acquit us of Schisme But to treat our Author with the greater Civility we 'll suppose him to be so tenacious of his own Doctrine that he 'll rather discharge us of Schisme than abandon his beloved Notions for which reason seeing 't is on all sides acknowledged that there is a Faulty Division among us and consequently a Faulty Divider who is the Schismatick He must be either the Dissenter or the Conformist but not the Dissenter as we have already prov'd from our Author 's own Topicks Ergo the Conformist Here we might have put an end to this Discourse and would do so had not our Author 's fertil Brain furnish'd us with another Argument that doth as fully evince the Conformist to be the Schismatick as the former clear'd the Dissenter In the management of this Argument we 'll consider the Netion of Dr. Peter Gunning and Peirson as compared with our Author The I earned G. and P. in a Conference with the Papists assert That a Superiours unjust casting any out of the Church is Schismatical If the Governours of the Church do by sinful Impositions or unjust Excommunications cast any out of the Church they are Schismatical This our Author won't deny But according to his Notion The Church of England are guilty of such Impositions and do unjustly Excommunicate Dissenters 1. That the Impositions are sinful is evident in that Indifferent things as has been prov'd are made necessary to Salvation The making any indifferent thing Necessary to Salvation is sinful But the imposing indifferent things as terms of Catholique Communion is the making such things Necessary to Salvation Ergo Sinful Ergo The Imposer is Schismatical But 2. Whoever doth unjustly Excommunicate any are Schismatical This is Dr. Gunning's sense But the Church of England if they agree with our Author Excommunicates the Dissenter unjustly Ergo c. That the Church of England Excommunicates unjustly according to the Doctrine of our Author is demonstrable even in that the Church doth as he would have it by Excommunication cast thousands out of a state of Salvation for not complying with little uncommanded things Whence I argue thus To Excommunicate or cast us out of a state of Salvation merely because we cannot comply with what God never commanded us is to Excommunicate unjustly But so doth the Church of England if we may pass a censure on her as our Author provokes us to do for the Church according unto him doth Excommunicate that is shut Heaven-gates against such to whom our Lord Jesus Christ hath promised the opening them To illustrate this with the greater clearness I beseech the Reader to consider That Salvation is promised by Jesus Christ unto all such as do sincerely Believe truly Repent and lead an Holy Life in all Godliness and Honesty Though a man may be daily guilty of lesser Evils yet if he believe in Christ