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england_n ceremony_n church_n rite_n 3,560 5 9.9325 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A45152 A plea for the non-conformists tending to justifie them against the clamorous charge of schisme. By a Dr. of Divinity. With two sheets on the same subject by another Hand and Judgement. Humfrey, John, 1621-1719. 1674 (1674) Wing H3703A; ESTC R217013 46,853 129

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of_o their_o mind_n and_o leave_v term_n of_o revile_v to_o the_o woman_n at_o billingsgate_n we_o will_v fair_o state_n the_o case_n and_o argue_v it_o as_o cool_o §_o 17._o the_o question_n be_v this_o whether_o the_o nonconforming_a minister_n and_o people_n meet_v ordinary_o together_o for_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n in_o assembly_n and_o place_n local_o distinct_a and_o separate_a from_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o parochial_a congregation_n because_o the_o say_a minister_n may_v not_o preach_v there_o nor_o the_o say_a people_n enjoy_v there_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n without_o the_o do_n of_o some_o thing_n which_o their_o conscience_n upon_o argument_n which_o they_o judge_v high_o probable_a do_v judge_v sinful_a be_v what_o the_o scripture_n call_v schism_n or_o be_v in_o any_o right_a reason_n a_o sinful_a separation_n these_o person_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n not_o condemn_v all_o parochial_a society_n as_o no_o true_a church_n nor_o in_o other_o thing_n behave_v themselves_o uncharitable_o towards_o they_o we_o must_v profess_v ourselves_o to_o believe_v the_o negative_a of_o this_o question_n in_o which_o be_v two_o fold_a together_o we_o affirm_v then_o 1._o this_o practice_n be_v not_o what_o the_o scripture_n call_v schism_n 2._o nor_o what_o right_a reason_n conclude_v from_o any_o scriptural_a principle_n can_v call_v a_o sinful_a separation_n we_o do_v grant_v there_o may_v be_v a_o sinful_a separation_n of_o christian_n from_o a_o church_n which_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o call_v schism_n that_o make_v we_o distinguish_v these_o two_o thing_n nor_o shall_v we_o discourse_v the_o former_a 1._o because_o it_o be_v a_o plain_a dispute_n about_o a_o term._n 2._o because_o the_o eminent_o learned_a dr._n owen_n have_v make_v it_o good_a that_o a_o separation_n from_o a_o church_n though_o it_o may_v be_v sinful_a yet_o be_v not_o that_o which_o the_o scripture_n call_v schism_n and_o we_o observe_v that_o his_o very_a learned_a adversary_n upon_o the_o point_n grant_v he_o this_o and_o plead_v for_o no_o more_o than_o a_o analogical_a application_n of_o the_o term_n schism_n to_o express_v the_o sin_n of_o unnecessary_a separation_n from_o a_o church_n which_o we_o will_v not_o contend_v about_o §_o 18._o we_o say_v therefore_o let_v it_o be_v so_o or_o so_o it_o be_v of_o no_o great_a consequence_n all_o grant_v there_o may_v be_v a_o sinful_a separation_n from_o a_o church_n and_o if_o the_o separation_n be_v not_o sinful_a we_o be_v sure_o they_o nickname_n it_o that_o call_v it_o schism_n if_o it_o be_v sinful_a whether_o it_o shall_v be_v call_v schism_n or_o by_o some_o other_o name_n we_o think_v signify_v very_o little_a to_o the_o conscience_n of_o any_o intelligent_a christian_n §_o 19_o mr._n hales_n still_o keep_v the_o dialect_n of_o the_o school_n call_v this_o sinful_a separation_n schism_n and_o give_v we_o this_o description_n of_o it_o schism_n be_v a_o unnecessary_a separation_n from_o 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because_o in_o the_o close_a of_o the_o same_o page_n though_o he_o do_v not_o at_o all_o mend_v the_o matter_n as_o to_o the_o poor_a nonconformist_a who_o he_o be_v wont_v to_o own_o as_o brethren_n yet_o he_o amend_v his_o english_a tell_v we_o if_o you_o consider_v the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o a_o particular_a organise_v church_n it_o be_v a_o schism_n from_o but_o as_o part_v of_o the_o universal_a visible_a church_n only_o as_o the_o n._n con._n use_v to_o term_v it_o be_v a_o schism_n in_o it_o and_o not_o only_o so_o but_o p._n 57_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n from_o particular_a parochial_a congregation_n for_o mr._n candry_n he_o say_v have_v observe_v there_o be_v and_o be_v another_o church-state_n in_o our_o particular_a congregation_n §_o 22._o here_o now_o be_v a_o double_a term_n from_o which_o this_o motion_n be_v pretend_v to_o be_v 1._o the_o church_n of_o england_n 2._o the_o parochial_a church_n in_o england_n to_o let_v our_o author_n know_v what_o we_o hold_v 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to_o worship_n god_n at_o westminster_n in_o the_o same_o act_n of_o worship_n be_v a_o schism_n from_o that_o part_n of_o this_o church_n which_o meet_v for_o that_o end_n in_o london_n §_o 42._o nor_o be_v he_o help_v at_o all_o by_o say_v our_o church_n be_v not_o of_o the_o same_o constitution_n 55._o doctrine_n of_o schism_n 55._o which_o he_o say_v be_v mr._n cawdry_n answer_v to_o dr._n owen_n let_v mr._n cawdry_n or_o who_o will_v say_v so_o dolus_fw-la versatur_fw-la in_o generatibus_fw-la what_o be_v the_o difference_n do_v christ_n constitute_v they_o we_o trust_v he_o have_v constitute_v we_o that_o be_v by_o the_o rule_v give_v in_o his_o word_n be_v they_o constitute_v by_o parliament_n that_o will_v be_v hard_a to_o prove_v as_o to_o the_o first_o constitution_n parish_n in_o england_n be_v first_o make_v by_o a_o popish_a archbishop_n the_o parliament_n afterward_o or_o custom_n rather_o may_v confirm_v they_o do_v it_o then_o make_v a_o schismatic_a to_o depart_v to_o a_o church_n not_o establish_v by_o humane_a law_n or_o custom_n how_o else_o be_v we_o of_o another_o constitution_n be_v not_o the_o same_o doctrine_n preach_v the_o same_o sacrament_n administer_v the_o same_o act_n of_o worship_n perform_v where_o be_v the_o difference_n in_o the_o modes_n rite_n and_o ceremony_n only_o and_o these_o all_o of_o humane_a institution_n this_o be_v that_o which_o the_o church_n of_o god_n never_o before_o call_v schism_n &_o which_o the_o apostle_n never_o think_v of_o do_v not_o we_o agree_v in_o the_o same_o government_n that_o concern_v we_o not_o yet_o while_o we_o be_v clear_v ourselves_o only_o from_o a_o church_n which_o the_o author_n must_v show_v we_o capable_a of_o any_o such_o government_n as_o christ_n have_v appoint_v intrinsical_a to_o his_o church_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n as_o to_o the_o national_a church_n of_o england_n we_o deny_v that_o we_o be_v guilty_a of_o any_o schism_n either_o in_o it_o or_o from_o it_o so_o that_o the_o whole_a charge_n must_v rest_v upon_o particular_a church_n and_o our_o pretend_v separation_n from_o they_o §_o 43._o this_o be_v that_o other_o church-state_n mention_v by_o mr._n caudry_n and_o quote_v by_o our_o author_n ch_n 9_o p._n 57_o these_o he_o call_v parochial_a congregation_n we_o be_v he_o say_v guilty_a of_o schism_n from_o they_o we_o all_o agree_v that_o these_o be_v capable_a of_o the_o name_n of_o church_n 1._o as_o they_o be_v lesser_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o so_o capable_a of_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a thus_o we_o be_v indeed_o unite_v to_o they_o as_o we_o be_v unite_v to_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o unite_v still_o to_o they_o as_o unto_o that_o own_v the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n his_o word_n and_o ordinance_n and_o profess_v a_o subjection_n to_o they_o but_o this_o be_v not_o the_o other_o state_n he_o speak_v of_o by_o which_o he_o can_v mean_v nothing_o but_o a_o govern_v state_n 2._o second_o therefore_o these_o parochial_a society_n may_v be_v consider_v as_o perfect_o or_o more_o imperfect_o organise_v furnish_v with_o all_o church-officer_n requisite_a and_o walk_v in_o gospel_n order_n or_o not_o so_o furnish_v or_o so_o walk_v the_o author_n tell_v his_o reader_n in_o a_o latter_a book_n call_v advice_n to_o the_o conformist_n and_o nonconformist_n that_o the_o sum_n of_o what_o the_o author_n of_o the_o short_a reflection_n offer_v lie_v in_o two_o thing_n the_o latter_a of_o which_o he_o deliver_v thus_o our_o parochial_a church_n be_v no_o true_a church_n 72._o advice_n to_o conformist_n etc._n etc._n p._n 72._o or_o at_o lest_o they_o be_v so_o faulty_a as_o they_o may_v be_v lawful_o separate_v from_o we_o have_v read_v over_o the_o book_n and_o good_a reader_n at_o thy_o leisure_n do_v but_o read_v over_o that_o pamplet_n the_o second_o chap_v particular_o the_o 13_o 14_o 15._o page_n and_o see_v whether_o this_o author_n have_v or_o no_o deal_v ingenious_o with_o he_o p._n 14._o he_o speak_v of_o these_o society_n as_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o say_v 14._o short_a reflection_n p._n 14._o in_o this_o notion_n we_o can_v deny_v that_o every_o parish_n yea_o family_n of_o christian_n be_v a_o true_a church_n but_o he_o indeed_o conclude_v that_o out_o of_o such_o particular_a church_n it_o must_v be_v lawful_a to_o gather_v a_o church_n for_o all_o particular_a church_n in_o the_o world_n be_v gather_v out_o of_o the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n even_o heathen_n when_o convert_v must_v be_v of_o the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n before_o they_o can_v form_v a_o particular_a church_n in_o this_o state_n and_o no_o other_o must_v all_o parochial_a society_n be_v that_o have_v no_o minister_n unless_o we_o will_v have_v organical_a govern_v church_n without_o any_o governor_n which_o we_o think_v be_v a_o contradiction_n p._n 15._o he_o take_v notice_n of_o another_o notion_n of_o they_o as_o ministerial_a by_o which_o he_o say_v he_o under_v and_n a_o competent_a number_n of_o christian_n who_o have_v either_o first_o choose_v or_o after_o submit_v to_o a._n b._n as_o their_o pastor_n he_o may_v indeed_o have_v spare_v this_o notion_n i_o do_v not_o remember_v i_o have_v meet_v with_o it_o in_o any_o author_n but_o mr._n rutherford_n and_o the_o truth_n be_v if_o it_o be_v a_o single_a minister_n i_o do_v not_o understand_v how_o he_o preach_v otherwise_o to_o they_o than_o as_o he_o be_v so_o far_o a_o officer_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o they_o a_o part_n of_o that_o vast_a body_n he_o consider_v these_o people_n either_o as_o live_v in_o the_o use_n of_o all_o gospel-ordinance_n or_o as_o at_o present_a live_n without_o some_o ordinance_n or_o have_v they_o so_o undue_o administer_v as_o may_v offer_v just_a cause_n of_o doubt_n to_o some_o christian_n whether_o they_o may_v lawful_o communicate_v with_o they_o or_o no_o he_o add_v we_o do_v believe_v that_o from_o such_o a_o church_n as_o be_v furnish_v with_o a_o due_o send_v able_a painful_a minister_n regular_o administer_a the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n so_o as_o people_n may_v communicate_v with_o they_o without_o sin_n and_o press_v forward_o to_o that_o perfection_n in_o order_n which_o in_o all_o thing_n they_o have_v not_o attain_v christian_n as_o before_o unite_v to_o they_o may_v not_o separate_v without_o sin_n he_o do_v not_o indeed_o say_v but_o i_o dare_v say_v for_o he_o he_o believe_v there_o be_v many_o such_o parochial_a society_n in_o england_n and_o he_o hint_n it_o when_o he_o say_v this_o be_v that_o indeed_o which_o some_o presbyterian_o reflect_v upon_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o congregational_a persuasion_n and_o these_o be_v those_o parochial_a church_n which_o they_o contend_v for_o as_o true_a church_n be_v this_o to_o say_v parochial_a society_n be_v no_o true_a church_n reader_n judge_v in_o his_o 15._o page_n he_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v yet_o a_o more_o perfect_a notion_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o perfect_o organical_a and_o furnish_v with_o all_o its_o affair_n and_o walk_v in_o all_o point_n of_o gospel_n order_n he_o add_v such_o particular_a church_n be_v in_o many_o parochial_a society_n in_o england_n and_o there_o be_v no_o doubt_n but_o such_o parochial_a church_n be_v true_a church_n from_o which_o causeless_a and_o unnecessary_a separation_n be_v sinful_a indeed_o he_o say_v how_o far_o other_o parochial_a church_n be_v true_a church_n avow_v so_o by_o presbyterian_o he_o be_v yet_o to_o learn_v and_o his_o answer_n be_v for_o any_o thing_n i_o see_v in_o his_o remark_n yet_o to_o teach_v he_o and_o i_o believe_v will_v so_o continue_v for_o his_o guess_n at_o what_o the_o author_n mean_v by_o perfection_n of_o order_n he_o i_o be_o sure_a will_v tell_v he_o he_o mean_v no_o more_o than_o a_o capacity_n to_o administer_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n proper_a to_o a_o particular_a church_n the_o word_n sacrament_n and_o censure_n of_o jundical_a admonition_n suspension_n and_o excommunication_n which_o they_o can_v do_v till_o they_o have_v officer_n i_o believe_v it_o must_v be_v a_o case_n of_o extraordinary_a necessity_n must_v justify_v a_o single_a minister_n in_o suspending_a or_o excommunicate_v but_o that_o those_o that_o help_v he_o must_v needs_o be_v person_n not_o ordain_v to_o the_o ministry_n i_o do_v not_o think_v he_o believe_v but_o that_o there_o may_v be_v more_o minister_n if_o the_o parochial_a society_n have_v more_o than_o one_o or_o other_o choose_v by_o that_o church_n and_o if_o any_o will_v contend_v that_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n must_v join_v with_o he_o in_o those_o act_n though_o he_o reserve_v his_o private_a judgement_n in_o the_o case_n yet_o he_o will_v not_o contend_v especial_o as_o to_o excommunication_n because_o he_o understand_v not_o to_o what_o purpose_n