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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A31590 The converted Presbyterian, or, The Church of England justified in a serious discourse between George, a devout English Protestant, and Andrew, a zealous Scotch Presbyterian, touching some practices in the Church of England. Chamberlayne, Edward, 1616-1703. 1668 (1668) Wing C1838; ESTC R11512 7,878 13

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The Converted PRESBYTERIAN OR The CHURCH OF ENGLAND JUSTIFIED IN A SERIOVS DISCOVRSE BETWEEN GEORGE a Devout English Protestant And ANDREW a Zealous Scotch Presbyterian TOUCHING Some Practices in the Church of ENGLAND London Printed for R. Needham 1668. A Serious Discourse between GEORGE a Devout English PROTESTANT and ANDREW a Zealous Scotch PRESBYTERIAN Touching some Practices in the Church of England Andrew Oming lately out of Scotland to see England I am not well satisfyed of the reason of some Rites and Ceremonies used in the Church of England especially to see Men when they enter into the Church make a low reverence towards the Altar George Sir I do not much wonder that you are not well informed concerning that Ceremony but I wonder rather that one of your Perswasion should desire as you seem to be informed in any thing that likes not his humour Andrew Sir I am not so rigid but that in all things touching my Duty towards God I desire to be informed and from my errors to be converted and when I am converted to do as Christ bad Peter to do that is to strengthen my Brethren George To inform you rightly then in this point First it must be supposed that some place ought necessarily to be set apart for the publick Worship of God and for Holy Duties which is such a truth and so consonant to reason and the Practice of all Gods People in the Old and New Testament that none but crazy brains will gainsay Andrew This I shall not deny though some of my weak Brethren do George Secondly it will then follow that all Christians who desire to walk in the ways of God and in the steps of the Godly are oblieged to come unto such places set apart for God and Holy Duties there to offer up Prayers and Praises to God and solemnly and duly to Worship and Adore him for to this very end are the Houses of God set apart from all common uses that Gods People may there assemble themselves to Worship him together and may by their joint Prayers Besiege Gods Throne as with an Army and take Heaven by force Andrew To this I shall easily agree and I think none but the weakest of all my Brethren will deny the same George Thirdly it must be granted that such Religious Publick Worship to be by all duly performed in Gods House ought not to be performed lamely and by halves as by the Soul only without the Body or the Body only without the Soul but it must be perfect and intire as far as Mortals can attain to it must be a Service made up of both Soul and Body the whole Man must be ingaged diligently therein First the Soul is oblieged that this Worship be internal hearty and unfeigned then the Body is ingaged that it be a visible Worship exemplary to others but very humble and lowly expressing the inward reverence of the Soul and augmenting and perfecting the same Andrew No man I believe will gainsay such a friendly and necessary compliance of the Soul and Body in performing Holy Duties if they once consider that God the Creatour of all things did frame our Souls and Bodies for the Service of His Majesty and for the Honour and Glory of his Name and if they expect or hope that God shall at the last Day glorify their Bodies as well as their Souls And for my part I shall not cavil at the manner of expressing our reverence to God by uncovering our heads at the entrance into the Church and by bowing the Body for I know well that bowing is consonant to the Practice of all Gods Saints both under the Law and under the Gospel even down to our times But that which troubles me and which me-thinks smells of Idolatry or at least Judaism or Popery is the bowing and making reverence toward the Altar George Indeed Andrew I was once almost of your mind until I had seriously considered first that such Adoration being a bodily act must of necessity be done towards some part of the Church either towards the upper end or towards the lower end towards the sides or roof or pavement of the Church Secondly that if every man should be at liberty to bow which way his fancy or accident guided him this would be a manifest violation of that Apostolical Precept Let all things be done decently and in order 1 Cor. 14. 40. and that it would be most unbecoming a Christian Assembly over which the God of Order and Unity doth preside and on which an orderly Army of Angels continually do wait Thirdly that all the Holy Fathers of the Primitive Church to whom God gave in a more plentiful manner the Spirit of Wisdom and Piety did with all the People committed to their charge exhibit this bodily Worship of God towards one and the same place and that was towards the East and towards the Altar which was alwaies placed in the East End of all Churches Andrew But why towards the Altar rather than towards any other thing or place of the Church George First it is enough to any man that loves not to be contentious that all our Ancestors thought fit so to do though we should not now know their reasons for the same Secondly we know they had amongst other reasons this one That the Altar whereon Christs Body and Blood is solemnly Consecrated and at which we eat the Bread of Life and drink the Cup of eternal Salvation and the Sacrifices of Prayer and Praises were wont to be offered was to be esteemed the best the principal and most Holy part of all the Church Goods which is asserted by all the ancient Fathers and for this reason the Altar was used to be guarded with Rails and to be placed in the highest part of the Church whereas the Baptisterium or Font was wont to be placed at first without the Church in the Church-yard and afterwards within the Church but towards the lower end and near the Entrance Andrew But this Worshiping towards the Altar seems in some sort a Worshiping the Altar and so will be a kind of Idolatry George I remember that the Primitive Christians were accused for Worshiping the Sun because they were wont to Worship God with their faces towards the East and those amongst you that in their Prayers lift their Eyes towards Heaven or the Roof of the Church may with as much reason be said to Worship the Sky or the Roof of the Church and those that entring into the Church bare-headed may be accused for Worshiping the Walls and those that in time of Publick Prayer stand Praying in their Seats with their hats before their Faces may be said to Worship their Hats although the only true God is Worship'd all the while and nothing else Andrew But when this bowing toward the Altar is not commanded us nor once mentioned in all your Church Service or in the Rubrick why should we do it and make our selves guilty of Will-Worship George It is true