and by all the Seers saying turne from your evill wayes c. neverthelesse they would not obey but hardened thâ—ir necks c. 2 Kiâ— 17 13 14 The next place Isa 55.11 sheweth the nature of Gods word which is effectâ—â—ll to make better or worse as he will that sendeth it not alwayes tâ— conuert for Pharaoh was hardned by it not onelie by the officers fâ—r â—â—is honoâ—r is to all the Saincts to haue the high acts of God in their mâ—â—thes and a two edged sword in their hands to execute vengeance in the heathens and corrections among the people c. Psal 149 6 7.9 The fruites whereby false prophets are knowne from true Mat. 7 â—0 are not the effects of their doctrine by converting men onely for so many true prophets heretofore should haue been iudged false but the doctrine it selfe and the works of life and conuersation are the prophets fruites which also may both be good in them that haue no office at all The next place Luk. 1.76 speaketh in partâ—cular of Iohns extraordinary office and work wherein God imployed him and proueth your purpose no more then the other Iohn 1â— 1 2. speaketh of lawfull enterers into the sheepfold by the door and of theeues that clime vp an other way What this will say for your ministers I know not vnlesse to proue them theeues for their entrance into the ministerie by the dâ—ore that is by Christs ordinance iâ— his church they cannot shew no lawfull office or calling haue they to witnâ—sse for them Yea they are ashamed of their office calling and entrance by the Bishops and secretly doe disclaym that to their people pretend their gifts graces and effects for proof of their ministerie 〈◊〉 many of vs that haue dealt with them doe know But what say I secrâ—â—ly nay openly and in print they haue yeelded that thâ—y enter not in by Christ but by a popish and vnlawfull vocatiâ—n The like seemeth â—o be closelie implied in these your arguments where you neither name what office your preachers haue nor how lawfullie they come by it as the reader may obserue The words of the Apostle 1 Cor. 9.1 2 4.15 shew two things 1 â— lawfull office of Apostleship 2 and Gods blessing vpon his labors in that office neither of Which can be shewed by your ministers neither proueth it yoâ—r proposition more then the other places For I hold with you that Gods lawfull ministers are the principall and most excellent ordinarie outward meanes for to work repentance faith c. but not the onely as you would haue it The Assumption namelie that such effects doe follow your preachers doctrine is denied You refer vs for the proof thereof to that which you wrote before and I also refer the reader to that which is before answered And here I wil add a further demonstration that true repentance can not follow your preachers doctrine in as much as they teach not true repentance neyther can teach it because their mouthes are mouzled by your church that they may not speake For thus it hath enacted Whosoeuer shall hereafter affiâ—me that the forme of Gods worship in the Church of England established by law and conteyned in the book of Common prayer c. is a corrupt superstitious or vnlawfull worship of God or conteyneth any thing in it that is repugnant to the scriptures let him be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored but by the Bishop of the place or Archbishop after his repentance and publick revocation of such his wicked errors Whosoeuer shall hereafter affirm that the rites and ceremonies of the church of England by law established are wicked Antichristian or superstitious or such as being commanded by lawfull authority men who are zealously and godly affected may not with any good conscience approue them vse them or as occasion requireth subscribe vnto them let him be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored vntill he repent and publickly revoke such his wicked errors Whosoeuer shall hereafter affâ—rm that the gouerment of the Church of Eng. vnder his Maiestie by Archbishops Bishops Deanes Archdeacons and the rest that doe bear office in the same is Antichristian or repugnant to the word of God let him be excommunicated ipso facto and so continew vntil he repent and publickly reuoke such his wicked errors Whosoeuer shall hereafter affirm or teach that the forme and manner of making and consecrating Bishops Priests and Deacons conteyneth any thing in it that is repugnant to the word of God let him be excommunicated ipso facto not to be restored vntil he repent and publicly revoke such his wicked errors These and the like constitutions hath your representatiue church of England made for maintenance of their worship ministerie ecclesiasticall gouernment rites ceremonies c against which your forward preachers heretofore so earnestly inveighed as being corrupt vnlawfull and antichristian but now behold their mouthes are shut they may not preach repentance for the many abominations that are among you if they doe they are excommunicated ipso facto and then are they neither officers nor members of your church Wherfore your ministers are eyther fain to hold their peace and be such as the Prophet complaineth of that rise not vp in the breaches nor make vp the hedge for the howse of Israel to stand in the battel in the day of the Lord or els they preach for defence of your own inuented worship pompous clergie and laudable ceremonies and are such as the prophet blameth for hauing seen a vayne vision and spoken a lying divination saying the Lord sayth it albeit he hath not spoken What reward then can they exspect for their preaching but as the Lord there threatneth that his hand shal be vpon them they shall not be in th' assembly of his people nor written in the writing of the howse of Israel Wherefore if there be any weight or soundnes in this your argument it may be returned vpon you thus The preachers after whose publick doctrine doe ordinarilie follow impenitency and continuance in an evill â—nd idolatrous estate of life in the hearers ar not the true ministers of God But after the doctrine of the preachers of your best assemblies doe ordinarily follow and appear impenitency idolatry and other fruites of the flesh in the hearers as is proued by the answer to this and to the assumption of your 4 argument for the churches Therfore the preachers of your best assemblies are not the true Ministers of God The 2 Argument SVch Ministers as haue promise of salvation in their present standing ar true Ministers of Christ. But so haue the ministers of our best assemblies Ergo. c. Proof of the assumption Because the promise of saluation is giuen to such Ministers as 1 are faithfull and wise stewards giuing the household meat in due season Mat 24 45.46 2. build gold siluer or stubble on the foundation 1 Cor 3 12 15. 3.
himself and the Conformists of farr greater esteem in this church then the Reformists Whether this be not a playne schisme and Mr Bern a factious person thus to carry hâ—mselfe in a church let himselfe say as also whether he be not fâ—r this ipso â—acto excommâ—nicated by force of theâ—r own Canon which sayth Whosoeuer shall hereafter separate themselues from the Communion of Saincts as it is approued by the Apostles rules in the Church of England and combine themselues together in a new brotherhood accounting the Christiâ—ns who are conformable to the doctrine gouernments rites and ceremonies of the church of England to be profane and vnmeet for them to ioyne with in Christian profession let them be excommunicated ipso facto and not restored but by the Archbishop after their repentance and publick reuocation of such their wicked errors Into like danger doth he come by Canon 11 and 12. The il meanes by which our cause is mainteyned he makeâ—h to be strange expositiâ—n of scripture c. First Mr Bern. here walketh still in the Papists steps who obiect the like vnto the Protestants Let an indifferent reader say they peruse the learnedst book of these reformers and he shall see in them false allegations of Fathers corruptions of scriptures fathers and councels c. Secâ—â—dly I answer our expositions may seeme strange to such as are themselues strangers from God but the Godly wise can discerne to whom if they haue read our books I leane the iudging of this probability Now thâ—s old calumniatioÌ„ which SataÌ„ layd vpoÌ„ the Sainct how truly Mr Bâ—rn hath layd vpon vs let his proofs shew which are in these two particulars First that one of us sayth All the truth is not taught in the Church of Eâ—gland and to proue this Act. 20 21. is cited Which one of vs thus citeth Act. 20 and where Mr Bern. nameth not Good cause we haue to suspect his faithfulnes for in his book he chargeth vs with some errors which we hold not as after shall appear And he that would so iniury the whole what may we think he wâ—ll doe for a part I suppose therefore the party cited that scripture to proue the whole truth ought to be taught which because it may be questioned whether it be needfull at all times therefore the Apostles example is brought As for the Priests of England 〈◊〉 they preach not the whole truth is proued by their dayly practise who balk many truthes touching the church ministery worship governmenâ— c. as all that obserue their doctrines know very well It is proued â—lso by the lawes and canons of their church which excommunicate â—ll such as shall by the truth reproue the falsehoods and abominations that are among them as before in this treatise is shewed And Mr Bern. is very silly if he exspect any scriptures to proue what is now taught in his church Furthermore if it be granted him that Act. 20. were by some one of vs alleged for the purpose he pretendâ—th yet it is no more lâ—kelihood that our cause is evill then that his brethrens cause and plea against vs is evill for they without all doubt doe allege scriptures for to proue things done in Engl which it is not posible by the scripturs for to shew See before in this book pag. 43. c 44. But what speak I of others Mr Bern himsefe is fayn to vse such colours els would the glory of his church soon fade for in the 48 page of his book he allegeth God for witnes that they are his people 1 by giuing them his word Psa 147.19 20. 2 by his effectuall working thereby Ier 22 22 therefore there is the voyce of the sonne of God Ioh. 5.25 c. If these be found and sufficient proofs that England hath Gods word because Israel had it and so in the rest then why may not men allege like Scriptures and proofs against them saying They are stayned with their own works and goe a whoring with their own inuentions Psal. 106 39. from the Prophets of Ierusalem is hyprocrisie gone forth into all the Land Ier. 23.15 I haue not sent these Prophets sayth the Lord yet they ran c. Ier. 23.21 and the like So then Mr Bern. must eyther bring better reasons for himselfe or els he may blush to blame others for that wherein himself is more faulty then they if they be faulty at all The other particular which he specifieth is that places setting forth the inuisible church c. we bring to set forth the visible church by as namely 1. Pet. 2.9 10. But Mr Bern. shewes his reader no reason at all why that Scripture must be vnderstood of the inuisible church as he Sayth and it is an easie matter for him to find faults without reasoÌ„ in any maÌ„s writing That place of Peter as the wise reader may perceiue Speaketh of and to the visible or Sensible church for th' Apostle wrote to the visible christians the strangers that then dwelt in Pontus Galatia c. and this which he speaketh to them in Chap· 2 9.10 is as Moses of old spake to the visible church of Israel Exod. 19 6. Againe he mentioneth the end of their calling to this dignity vidz to shew forth the vertues of him that had called them out of darknes into his maruelous light which whether it appertaynes not to the visible church I leaue it for euery true member thereof to iudge And such as these are the exceptions that D. Allison to whome he referreth us tooke heretofore which because they are vnworthy a Dr. of Diuinity we haue though best to passe by as vnworthy of reply till further occasion The 4. likelihood is that we haue not the approbation of any reformed churches Churches for our cause This is much like his first probability before answered and seemeth to be a mayn propp to vphold the church of England which loue to make flesh their arme The reader may see this poynt thrise vrged before in this book and thrise answered I referr him also to our Letters vnto Mr Iunius whome Mr Bern. mentioneth finally to the Apologie of the church of England where themselues say vnto the like obiections of the Papists thâ— truth of the Gospel of Iesus Christ dependeth not upon councels add also nor vpon Churches nor as S. Paul sayth vpon the iudgements of mortall creatures The 5. is the condemnation of this way by the Diuines of England both liuing and dead c. But this is no other likelihood then it is like Mr Bern. if he had then liued would haue alleged against Christ himselfe when the learned Priests Rabbines and Diuines of Israel condemned his way and doctrine Ioh. 7.48.49 19 7. c. If these learned English Diâ—ines haue confuted vs let Mr Bern. or any shew the scriptures and reasons by which they haue done it if they were our aduersaries without reason as some of them he
answer I may err iudgment so may others even whole churches therefore let euery man look how he iudgeth and how he deâ—endeth on other men and let evey mans â—udgment be tried by the scriptures For this cause we say vnto you seing we haue fought for the judgement of other churches but can get no answer procure you some reasons from them in defence of your church ministerie worship and ecclesiasticall gouerâ—ment and if by Gods word they can justâ—fy those things and evince that we haue done evil to depart from you we will returne vnto you Otherwise if they reioyce neuâ—r so mâ—ch for your estate we are verâ—ly perswaded that both they and you haue more causâ— to mourne for the many abominations that are amâ—ng 〈◊〉 To conclude consider in an example the weight of your argument for by the like reâ—son the envious ministers in Pauls time mought thus haâ—e justâ—fied themselues That mâ—nisterie and ministration for which the Apostles of Christ reioyce is true to be obeyed and continued in But our ministery and minâ—stration is such as for it the Apostle Paul reioyceth yea and will râ—ioyce Philip â— 16.18 If you Answer the Apostle reioyced for the preaching of Christ not forthe envious affection of the preachers who might be damned themselues notwithstanding their true doctrine it is true And so minde I for the reformed churches They reioyce for the many truthes you profesâ—e against Popery as we also doe the like yet may you neverthelesse perish for your false constitution idolatrous worship popish hierarchie and other transgressions that are among you Amend your liues therefore and turne your feet into the wayes of peace for if you rely vpon man anâ— make â—lesh yoâ—r arme and will not heâ—r the word of the Lord that condemneth your iniquities you shâ—ll perish in your sinns other châ—rches shall not be able to excuse of sâ—ue you ARGVMENTS That the PREACHERS of the best assemblies of the church of ENGLAND are true ministers of Christ. I THâ— prâ—achers after whose publick powerfull doctrine of the word do ordinarily follow repeÌ„â—ance conuersion to God sauing fayth in Christ loue to the brethrâ—n and oâ—heâ— fruits of the spiâ—it Gal. 5 6 22. in the hearers are true ministers of God and of the visible châ—rcâ— But â—fter â—he dâ—ctrine of Gods word taught by the preachers of our best asseâ—bliâ—s doe ordâ—narily appear the fruites of the spirit in the hearers Thâ—refore thâ— preachers of our best assemblies are true ministers of Christ. The â—roposition is proued because onely the word that God doth send in the 〈◊〉 oâ— his ministers is ordinarily effectuâ—ll for these things Ier. 23 22 Esa. 55 11. Mat 7 20 Luk 1 76 Ioh. 10.1 2. 1 Cor 9 1. â— 4 15. Thâ— assumption is proued by the answer to the assumption of the 4 argumeâ—◠〈◊〉 thâ— churcheâ— Answer OVR separation is from your Church consisting of many assemblieâ— all compact into ore bodâ—e and from all your Ministerie both prelacie and priesthood We cannot tel which assemblies or ministers be best for they that seem best may proue worst because they most deceiue the simple the wolf that comes in a sheeps coat is no whit better than he that commeth in his natiue hiew but he may doe more harm in that he is disguised Reason would perswade vs that the Bishops are the preachers of your best assemblies for they haue greatest dignity fatherhood and authority in your church they preach in the highest and most honorable assemblies of the land they are most carefull to obserue their oath of due obedience to keep the canonâ— orders lawes and ceremonies of your church and set themselues against such as secretly vndermine the state of the church and ministerie of England yet openlie stand members and professed friends of the same They and their assemblies are best ordered after the constitution and lawes of your church So that to speak as I think I know not which assemblies be best where the Leven hath sow red the whole lump though I can guesse which you doe mean but plain dealing about your ministers and asâ—emblies would haue beseemed you best Tel vs therefore when you next write what ministers you mean whether the Bishops Deanes Doctors c. that are in the cathedrall churches or the Doctors and Diuines that are in your vniuersities or thâ— Parsons Vicars Lecturers that are in your Parishes Again what Ministers they be whither Apostles or Prophets or Evangelists or Pastors or Teachers for all these are ministers Eph. 4. and meet it is to know your meaning for though Apostles and Pastors be both ministers ordeined of Christ yet if one will say everie Pastor is an Apostle he is but a liar So you see it is needfull that we ransack these your ambiguous and generall termes Now for your argument first I answer to the proposition that though these fruites you mention doe many times follow the doctrine of Christs ministers yet not theirs onely nor alwaies Not onelie because other men that are not in office of Ministerie may by excercise of their gifts work such fruites as appeareth 1 Cor. 14.1.31.3.24 25. c. I appeal also to your selues whether you thinke not that your best ministers though silenced or degraded from all ministeriall office may not when they teach work repentance fath and other fruites of the spirit Neither doe these fruites alwayes follow the doctrine of true ministers for Noah preached 120· yeares yet followed there not faith and repentance in the old world Christ himselfe preached to Chorazin and Bethsaida yet left the woe vpon them and complaineth in Esaias that he had laboured in vayn among the Iewes and of Israel it is said All the day long haue I stretched out my hand a disobedient and gâ—ynsaying people To reason therefore from the effects this man wrought faith by his teaching therefore he is a true minâ—ster or this man wrought not faith by his teaching therefore no true minister is vnsound and vnconcludable by the scriptures The â—roofs of your proposition being examined wil be found to light for your purpose if you mean that the officers doctrine onely or alwayes is effectuall for these thinâ—s to weet repentance faith c often I know it is and alwayes it hath effect eyther to life or death in the hearers Your scriptures are Ier 23 22. which sheweth what true prophets should labour to doe namely to turne sinners from their evill way c whereas the false prophets did otherwise Eze 13 22 but proueth not that the prophets onely did this for the Priests and Levites did it also Mal 2 6 yea priuate men may often turne their neighbours from evill Leu 4 27.8 19.17 Prou. 31.26 Mal. 3 16 Mat. 18.15 Iam. 5.19 20. neyther proveth it that the prophets alwayes did this for Esaias crieth Lord who hath beleeued our report Isa. 53.1 and it is written that the Lord testified to Israel by all the Prophets
guilty of the body and blood of Chrâ—st as were the wretcheâ— that crucified hâ—m Also Baptisme which should be an ingraffing into Christ his death buriall and resurrection and a sâ—gne of washing away mens sinns in his blood is giuen to the seed of the vngodly blasphemers and enemies of Christ vnto whom by no right it doth apperteyn Which sacrilegious prophanation of the holy misteries sheweth a manifest contempt of Christ represented in them who as he communicateth not himselfe with such wicked persons so neyther the signes and seales of himselfe and the redemption that he wrought for his elect For by his suffring he consecrated them onely that are sanctified that by faith doe eat his flesh and drinke his â—lood the wicked which haue no portion in his death and oblation when they participate in these seales of grace doe but eat and drink iudgment to themselues the ministers which so prostitute Christ vnto the teeth of his enemies and tread vnder foot the sonne of God if they repent not shall not escape his hand whâ—ch sayd Vengeance is myne I will repay the people which by an imaginary separation are or seem to be sundred from those profane and yet communicate together in such things doe even by that action shew that they are one body with them for so it is written we that are many are one bread and one body because we all are partakers of one bread 1 Cor 10 17. This bringing of Satans seed into the church unto the alter of God may further be minded as a high degree of violating the second commandement whereby all images idols and simillitudes whatsoeuer of the Diuils or mens inuention or forming are seuerely forbidden to bee brought into Gods howse or vsed in his worship Now such images or Idols are these wicked persons For as children are the images of their parents and all faâ—thfull people called the children of God are Gods liuely images in Christ whose image and simillitude they carry himselfe being truely and properly the sole image of the invisible God his Father and they all being borne a new of him are changed into the same image from glory to glory as by the spirit of the Lord being renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created them so Satans children as wicked worldlings be called in scripture are his liuely images hauing lost the first image of God wherein they were created and into the image of the Serpent are changed dayly by his spirit that ruleth in them and him they represent in his malycious nature and actions As it is sinne and so esteemed to haue images and representations of beasts of fowles of fishes c. brought into the church and worship of God so would and wel might it be esteemed more horrible if in any Christian congregation there should be brought in pictures of the Diuill or other like helish representations Yet men will not see the horror of this sinne that the liuing images and pictures of the Serpent even wicked and profane people his seed and children should be brought into the Church and worship of God to haue part and interest in Christ and his couenant whether he will or not to be offred vnto God layd vpon his alter for spiriritual sacrifices though they be much more abominable then vnclean beasts were vnder the law as the substance or figured thing is more then the figure and shadow But doubtlesse God who abhorreth all idols and religious images of humane devise and Christ who would not offer the bloody sacrifices of idolaters abhorreth this confusion of Satans images within his church neyther will the high-priest after the order of Melchisedek offer such to his Father or be priest vnto them Otherwise he should not be so faithfull in the house of God as wâ—s Aaron nor the sacrifice of the Gospel be so holy as the shadowes of the law which were vnblemished Finally all that haue Christ for their Prâ—est are by him to bring their sacrifices for their sinns vnto God that so attoÌ„emeÌ„t may be made through his intercession For every high Prâ—est is ordeyned for men in things perteyning to God that he may offer gifts and sacrifices for sinnes and every man is appoynted of God to present his sacrifice by the Priest who is to make attonement for him concerning his sinne that it may be forgiuen him But the church of England in asmuch as it persisteth in sinne and will not repent of the many transgressions dayly committed in their publick worship and aâ—ministration of holy things refuseth reconciliation by him who is the high Prâ—est of good things to come and able perfectly to saue them that come vnto God by him This their impenitency appeareth not onely by their perseverance in evill doinâ— notwithstanding all the aâ—monitions and reproofs that haue sounded in theyr eares these many yeares but aboue al by their vngodly Canons constitutions made by the whole representatiue chuch of Engl and submitted vnto by the rest of the people Whereby they publish vnto all the world how they are hardned in their evils that excommunicate pâ—nish and persecute all that sâ—eak against or refuse to communicate with their people prelacie priesthood worship ceremonies c. wherein are so many sinns and idolatries For asmuch then as the publick seruice and sacrifice of this church is idolatrous the holy mysteries of Christ profaned the people vnsanctified and their sinns vnrepented of there is no word or promise in scripture that Christ is the Priest or sacrificer of such worship or worshippers Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of God EVery true church of God hath Christ for the King thereof For of him the Father sayth I haue set my King vpon Zion my holy mountayn and he must râ—ign till he hath put all his enemies vnder his feet and shall sit vpoÌ„ the throne of Dauid vpon his kingdome to order it and to establish it with judgement and with justice from henceforth even for ever Isa. 9.7 But the church of England hath not Christ for the King thereof first because it hath not these officers which he hath appoynted to gouerne his church vnder him namely Pastors Teachers and Elders but in stead of them it hath the hierarchie or Prelacye of Antichrist Archbishops Lord Bishops Chaneâ—llors Archdeacons Commissaries c. who reign or tyrannize ouer the sowles of men by their vnlawfull jurisdiction ruling ouer many Churches making them constitutions and canons prescribing them words both for prayer and doctrine summoning censuring censuring excommunicating absoluing both priests and people making and deposing ministers giuing the holy Ghost excercising also civill offices in the common wealth and carying the titles both of Christ and of the Gods the Magistrates into whose places they intrude‘ hauing no warrant for their spirituall Lordships in the
scriptures they allege haue been before examined and the ministers of Engl. being put into the other ballance are found all too leight But if it were true that they had the meanâ— yet their argument is false if they conclude of the effect Israel had farr better meanes then England I am sure for the Prophets and Apostles and Christ himselfe preached among them Yet loe he complayneth that he had laboured in vayne for Ierusalem killed the Prophets and stoned those that were sent vnto them and the Lord by his Apostles stretched forth his hand to a disobedient and gainsaying people And shall we thinke that the Prâ—ests of Engl. haue such power and grace tied to their lips that because they haue â—reached therefore the whole nation is a true church Or dotâ— there such vertue proceed from these ministers as can make the multituâ—e of swaggering professors atheists blasphemers and all sorts of profane which swarme in the land to be turned Christians worthy to be washed and fed with the body and blood of Christ. and yet continue atheists and profane as before what wondrous effect shall we next hear of but that their preaching hath conuerted the Diuils also But let us hear what testimony M. Gifford hath left behâ—nde him of the graâ— learned prâ—achers of the church of Engl among whom himselfe was one and of the people in their parishes The Diull sayth he is content those preachers should ride vpon his back because he is sure they will not spurg all him they be very gentle riders Doe ye not thinke that if they should set forth Gods word as they ought and spread the light that all wicked of which their parish is full would storme and fret against them the Diuill himselfe would fiâ—k about if they should spur him but a little But they can tell a smooth tale in the pulpit garnished with some merry story for to make the people merry or els some old rotten allegory or some far fetched matter out of some great writers that their people may be at their wits end and admit them A man would thinke to see the people come out of the church blowing that they were fed as ful as tikes when they goe home with emty bellies This I dare warrant if it be not so let me loose both mine eares that gâ—e through the parishes of these graâ—e and learned Diuines and except such as run to fetch their victuals otherwhere ye shall not finde fiâ—e among fiue skore which are able to vnderstand the necessary grounds and principles of religion and yet the People will say they be excellent deep men But I loue not those welles which are so deep that a man can draw no water out of them Loe here the means which the parishes of England doe enioy and worthy effects that follow If Mr Barrow or any of vs should I haue written this it would haue been counted sâ—â—ffing râ—yling blasphemy but now that Mr Gifford so worthy a patron of the church hath thus recorded I hope the witnes wil be thought irrefragable And now let these godly ministers examine Mat 28. Eph. 4 and see if there they can finde these meanes which they enioy iustified But they proceed and tel vs in their second reason that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith For the ConfessioÌ„ of their church tegither togither with the Apologie thereof and those articles of religion agreed vpon in the Conuocation howse anno 1562 doe proue this euidently But herein they would deceiue the simple euidently for first profession of the true sayth when men in practise doe deny it maketh them not a true church but they are as the Apostle sayth abominable Then for profession it selfe if it be by constreynt for fear of punishment by mâ—n that otherweise are profanâ— lewd and dissolute and enemies to the gospell this is no true profession such as will make men a true church for they ought to receiue and professe the truth willingly and gladly Psal 110.3 Act. 2 41. Now we know that with them men were and are forced to the profession they make and if it were at their own choise many thowsands would professe otherwise Their own acts and Monuments besides manifest experience doe witnes this For Mr Fox reporteth that when K. Edward had established this church and religion many people in Cornwal Deuenshire and other places not onely misliked it but openly rebelled for their old idolatrie The Preists though some allowed yet others dissembled and many carelessly conâ—emned all and still excercised their old monâ—ed Popery The Iustices c were not onely slack in furthering of religion but hindred so much as lay in them the Kings proceedings c. So that ciuill force not Christian zelo made men Protestants in that Kings dayes wherefore at his death hauing gotten Q. Mary they soâ— vp agayn their Romish superstition and persecuted the other vnto the death Til Q. Elisah came and inforced them the second tyme to put away theâ—r Latin Masse and images and receiue that English seruice and ceremonies whâ—ch since haue preuayled to this day Whâ—ch how willingly the people yeâ—lded vnto Mr Nichols testimony to omit all others before alleged sheweth And How wel this religion is liked of now after so many yeres let the multitude of church papists in England shew together with the whole rowâ— of rebels in Ireland all which are of the communion of the church of Engl hauing the same Bishops Priests service â— the English and Irish that dwel in the country being ioyned togither in one body and brotherhood Then adde to these papists the profane time-seruers such as M. Gifford deseribeth thus I know there be many which care not for the Pope but yet beleeue much of his doctrine they be those which we call Atheists of no religion but look whatsoeuer any prince doth set forth that they will profess and add vnto them those other firarmes in the church of England that Mr Chaderton complayneth of eronius and hereticall sectaries witches charmers sorcerers murtherers theeues adulterers liars c and all these togither being compelled by law into one church and brotherhood can any man doubt now of that which these ministers say that their whole church maketh profession of the true faith The Confession Apologie and Conuocation-howse articles are strange proofs of the peoples profession If a few men in their Studies or Consistories write books or articles of religion and send them a broad must all people that see or hear them wil they nil they needs be counted professors of that religion yea such also as neuer heard of them in their liues nor caÌ„not tel what they meaÌ„e Surly these ministers ar eyther very ignorant or carelesse what they say when they call this an euident proof The churches in France and Belgia haue published Confessions and Articles also better then those in England yet
life which serue to heal the nations with if he offer to touch the Egyptian vlcers that appeare in your worship church-government ministerie ceremonies c. he is presently thrust out of dores and if he dare but affirme these or any of these to be disceases and botches in your body sinns against God or repugnant to his word he is excommunicated ipso facto by the decrees of the whole representatiue church of England And are you willing now to be healed Nay if any among you not medling with the publike estate of your church but feeling or fearing his own particular sowl sicknes doe resort to a physician whose receipts are not after the common sort for aduise about his health or of friendship and acquaintance to see him he is subiect to the censure and thunderbolt of your church Witnesse the late practise in Norwich where certayn citizens were excommunicated for resorting vnto and praying with Mr Robinson a man worthily reverenced of all the city for the graces of God in him as your selfe also I suppose will acknowledge and to whome the cure and charge of their sowles was ere while committed Would any vnmercifull man haue dealt so with his bondslaue in a case of bodily sicknes But hereby all may see what small hope there is of Curing the Kanker of your church THe second question is Are they themselues healed then where were they healed where were they called where were they regenerate and begotten to Christ was it not in the womb of this our church and by means of the immortall seed of Gods word that is dayly sown in our church a holy church a church of God where in ordinarily men are called and brought to God The winde bloweth where it will and we heare the sound thereof but know not whence it cometh and whether it goeth so is every one that is bâ—rne of the spirit To your demaund then I answer we werâ— câ—llâ—â— being in Bâ—â—ylon your Church I meane which restreyneth the 〈◊〉 by vnriâ—hteousnes there was our regeneration begun Where we faâ— in darknes and in the shadow of death the light of God appeared and 〈◊〉 vs lâ—fe If you yet inquire how this was I refer you to 〈…〉 brouâ—ht light out of darknes and daylie bringeth forth the 〈…〉 treasâ—re and his wayes are past finding out for as I knâ—w 〈◊〉 tâ—e way of the winde nor how the bones doe grow in the womb of her that is with childe so know I not the work of God that worketh all If you demaâ—nd of the means it was doubtlesse the word and spirit of the Lord without which there is no calling no regeneration Now where you ask how then we can deny that to be a true church wherâ—in 〈◊〉 men are called and brough to God I answer first you take vp more thâ—n we lay down when you say â—rdinarily for the ordinary and common fruit of the word among you is through your own corrupt handling and hearing of it euell and not good the many walke the broad way and Gods calling is like to that which the Prophet sayth one of a city and two of a tribe in resâ—ect of the worldly multitudes Secondly all the Saincts are not begotten vnto Christ in the wombe of a true particular church for when the Apostle preached among Pagans conuerted many I would know in the womb of what church they were begotten they were first conuerted vnto Christ before euer they were in any other church then that Ierusalem which is aboue the mother of all the elect Let vs come to later times your selues when you began to be a church of protestants in what particular womb were your people begotten I suppose if in any it was in the womb of your mother church of Rome where they had both receiued Baptisme the seal of regeneration and been catechised in Christian religion and then look how your selues can deny that to be a true church or be free of vnthankfulnes towards her that bare you But you prosecute your cause against vs and would driue vs eyther to say there is indeed a true ministery of the word among you but it is not powrfull to any but our selues or els that we were not called in your church but since we left you To the first I answer there is no necessity that we must grant a true ministery for first we hold that the true word may be put in Balaamites mouthes and a false ministery may through Gods wondrous grace beget faith in his elect if you say otherweise you will shake the foundation of your English church layd by Austâ—â— the monk Pope Gregories Apostle and damn all your late fathers vnder the Roman Clergie Secondly we â—ie not the grace of God in the true church to the ministers lips knowing that men by other meanes are often conuerted to the Lord. And if your ministers in England hold that men cannot be begotten to Christ among them but by their preaching you may take vp your Letanie which causlesse you vse for vs and say from this horible and bellish pride good Lord deliuer them As they cannot restreyn the winde from blowing so much lesse the spirit of God from breathing out of other places then ministers mouthes To the second also I answer that it is one thing to be called in your church as you speake and another thing to be called by your church or ministery as I thinke you mean It is written Reu. 18.4 Goe out of her my people you see here Gods people were in Babylon and are called ovt of the same not by Babel it selfe or any minister of it buy by a voyce from heauen So we might be called in your church though not by the same And thus we haue not bard our selues from pleading against you as you would bear men in hand neyther yet shew you of whom or wher you had that which you say we all stoutly answer and stifly stand to it namely that we leau your church meerly only out of conscience c. We haue a better ground if you would receiue it euen the Law of the Lord that so commandeth both vs and our consciences Conscience is the blinde Papists common plea but we know that mans conscience is as much defiled as any other part or power of his sowl or body and therefore it may be no rule of our actions but the law of God onely which is pure perfect and vndefiled Yet you wil needs proceed and say then we had conscience before we left you I answer yea or els we would not haue left you Thinke you that your predecessors had no conscience when they left the Popish church Then where say you of us and minde whether the Papists will not say as much of you where came they to that conscience and care of their saluation but in our church You are answered before we had it in your church as Gods