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england_n catholic_n church_n communion_n 6,739 5 9.8919 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A33222 Several captious queries concerning the English Reformation first proposed by Dean Manby (an Irish convert) in Latin, and afterwards by T.W. in English, briefly and fully answered by Dr. Clagett. Clagett, William, 1646-1688. 1688 (1688) Wing C4399; ESTC R27257 28,726 51

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against_o he_o sect._n 9_o quer._n but_o more_o common_a answer_n be_v that_o every_o national_a church_n may_v reform_v itself_o be_v it_o so_o then_o it_o follow_v scotland_n may_v reform_v itself_o to_o calvinism_n saxony_n to_o lutheranism_n etc._n etc._n answ_n and_o so_o you_o leave_v we_o to_o gather_v the_o rest_n in_o this_o manner_n but_o scotland_n ought_v not_o to_o reform_v to_o calvinism_n saxony_n to_o lutheranism_n and_o therefore_o a_o national_a church_n may_v not_o reform_v itself_o which_o be_v as_o much_o as_o to_o say_v that_o because_o the_o national_a churches_n which_o reform_v themselves_o do_v not_o all_o of_o they_o agree_v in_o every_o point_n of_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n with_o one_o another_o therefore_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v reform_v the_o most_o manifest_a abuse_n notorious_a error_n in_o the_o take_n a_o way_n of_o which_o they_o all_o agree_v if_o you_o intend_v to_o insinuate_v that_o we_o confess_v some_o defect_n in_o this_o or_o that_o national_a church_n since_o they_o reform_v your_o argument_n be_v just_a such_o another_o as_o this_o because_o the_o national_a church_n in_o reform_v themselves_o do_v not_o do_v every_o good_a thing_n which_o they_o may_v therefore_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v do_v the_o good_a which_o they_o do_v you_o may_v sir_n observe_v if_o you_o please_v that_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o national_a church_n to_o reform_v itself_o do_v not_o imply_v it_o to_o be_v a_o indifferent_a thing_n how_o she_o proceed_v in_o do_v it_o nor_o do_v it_o follow_v that_o because_o it_o be_v possible_a for_o a_o national_a church_n to_o use_v authority_n in_o this_o matter_n better_a or_o worse_o therefore_o she_o have_v no_o authority_n at_o all_o in_o it_o if_o you_o be_v ignorant_a of_o these_o thing_n you_o do_v well_o to_o make_v query_n upon_o they_o but_o it_o shall_v have_v be_v do_v modest_o and_o without_o pretend_v to_o dispute_v of_o thing_n in_o which_o you_o be_v so_o very_o unskilful_a quer._n moreover_o it_o be_v false_a that_o the_o change_n of_o religion_n be_v make_v here_o in_o england_n by_o vote_n of_o the_o national_a church_n or_o clergy_n of_o england_n no_o no_o but_o by_o the_o giddiness_n of_o a_o few_o during_o the_o minority_n of_o edward_n vi._n be_v then_o a_o child_n of_o ten_o year_n old_a read_v the_o annal_n of_o those_o time_n even_a fox_n himself_o where_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o almost_o all_o the_o english_a bishop_n cranmer_z and_z two_o or_o three_o more_o except_v be_v utter_o against_o the_o pretend_a reformation_n sect._n 10_o answ_n if_o the_o reformation_n be_v not_o a_o pretend_a only_o but_o a_o real_a reformation_n and_o if_o all_o the_o english_a bishop_n almost_o be_v against_o it_o the_o more_o to_o blame_v they_o but_o the_o reformation_n be_v not_o the_o less_o necessary_a truth_n be_v to_o be_v follow_v with_o a_o few_o if_o they_o be_v but_o few_o that_o follow_v it_o but_o thou_o shall_v not_o follow_v a_o multitude_n to_o do_v evil_a it_o be_v better_a to_o be_v in_o the_o right_n with_o a_o young_a king_n though_o he_o be_v but_o a_o child_n than_o to_o be_v in_o the_o wrong_n with_o a_o old_a pope_n but_o for_o what_o you_o say_v that_o the_o change_n of_o religion_n in_o england_n be_v make_v by_o the_o giddiness_n of_o a_o few_o it_o be_v notorious_o false_a for_o they_o be_v but_o few_o in_o comparison_n that_o oppose_v it_o and_o it_o be_v so_o general_o receive_v that_o fire_n and_o faggot_n in_o the_o next_o reign_n be_v not_o able_a to_o destroy_v it_o sect._n 11_o quer._n yet_o let_v we_o suppose_v but_o not_o grant_v religion_n to_o have_v be_v reform_v here_o by_o the_o major_a part_n of_o the_o english_a clergy_n i_o understand_v not_o how_o it_o may_v be_v lawful_a for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v in_o actual_a communion_n with_o the_o catholic_n church_n to_o separate_v itself_o from_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o body_n answ_n she_o have_v not_o separate_v herself_o from_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o body_n though_o she_o have_v not_o now_o for_o some_o time_n be_v in_o actual_a conjunction_n with_o one_o part_n of_o it_o and_o that_o the_o most_o corrupt_a part_n of_o all_o the_o rest_n the_o true_a reason_n whereof_o be_v that_o you_o will_v have_v no_o communion_n with_o we_o but_o we_o must_v pay_v for_o it_o at_o the_o price_n of_o our_o soul_n if_o to_o reform_v ourselves_o be_v to_o separate_v from_o your_o church_n look_v you_o to_o that_o who_o have_v it_o seem_v make_v both_o these_o thing_n to_o be_v in_o effect_n the_o same_o thing_n by_o your_o hate_v to_o be_v reform_v we_o for_o our_o part_n be_v amaze_v that_o man_n who_o talk_v so_o much_o for_o unity_n of_o communion_n will_v not_o do_v that_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o unity_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v do_v though_o discord_n and_o separation_n will_v certain_o follow_v upon_o it_o sect._n 12_o quer._n if_o you_o say_v this_o be_v not_o do_v by_o fault_n of_o the_o english_a church_n but_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n obtrude_a on_o the_o world_n her_o error_n and_o corruption_n i_o answer_v in_o short_a that_o all_o heretic_n themselves_o be_v judge_n will_v escape_v condemnation_n and_o father_n let_v the_o reader_n take_v notice_n that_o all_o presbyterian_o be_v wont_a to_o urge_v this_o very_a instance_n in_o their_o own_o defence_n against_o the_o church_n england_n to_o wit_n that_o they_o have_v leave_v only_o the_o error_n and_o corruption_n of_o the_o english_a church_n answ_n if_o you_o say_v this_o be_v not_o do_v by_o fault_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o the_o supreme_a pastor_n and_o reject_v the_o catholic_n faith_n i_o answer_v in_o short_a that_o all_o usurper_n and_o deceiver_n themselves_o be_v judge_n will_v escape_v condemnation_n and_o far_o let_v the_o reader_n take_v notice_n that_o though_o this_o plea_n of_o forsake_v the_o error_n of_o a_o church_n lie_v in_o the_o middle_a to_o be_v take_v up_o by_o every_o one_o that_o separate_v from_o a_o church_n yet_o one_o may_v take_v it_o up_o with_o very_a good_a reason_n against_o one_o church_n while_o another_o lay_n hold_v on_o it_o without_o any_o just_a cause_n for_o so_o do_v against_o another_o church_n nor_o ought_v it_o to_o be_v esteem_v any_o prejudice_n against_o use_v such_o a_o plea_n when_o there_o be_v cause_n for_o it_o that_o other_o may_v use_v when_o there_o be_v none_o for_o otherwise_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o the_o innocent_a shall_v ever_o make_v a_o good_a plea_n for_o themselves_o since_o they_o that_o be_v guilty_a may_v if_o they_o can_v but_o speak_v take_v the_o same_o word_n into_o their_o mouth_n when_o the_o two_o apostle_n say_v to_o the_o council_n whether_o it_o be_v right_a in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n to_o hearken_v anto_n you_o more_o than_o unto_o god_n judge_v you_o they_o may_v have_v be_v tell_v that_o this_o be_v no_o more_o than_o what_o every_o deceiver_n may_v say_v and_o yet_o i_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o the_o plea_n in_o their_o mouth_n be_v a_o very_a just_a and_o sufficient_a plea._n sect._n 13_o quer._n whether_o the_o true_a service_n of_o god_n have_v be_v corrupt_v throughout_o the_o whole_a world_n before_o cranmer_n rise_v if_o not_o tell_v i_o in_o what_o province_n of_o the_o earth_n do_v exist_v whether_o among_o the_o waldenses_n but_o i_o be_o ignorant_a from_o whence_o peter_n waldo_n the_o merchant_n of_o lion_n receive_v his_o mission_n nor_o do_v i_o know_v whether_o his_o sacrament_n be_v approve_v by_o the_o church_n of_o england_n answ_n the_o whole_a world_n be_v a_o very_a wide_a place_n and_o the_o query_n be_v a_o very_a impertinent_a query_n for_o whether_o the_o true_a service_n of_o god_n bid_v be_v corrupt_v throughout_o the_o whole_a world_n before_o cramner_n rise_n or_o not_o one_o thing_n we_o be_v sure_a of_o that_o it_o be_v most_o vile_o corrupt_v here_o and_o therefore_o that_o there_o be_v cry_v need_n to_o have_v it_o reform_v but_o if_o you_o long_v to_o have_v a_o more_o positive_a answer_n to_o the_o question_n first_o go_v and_o learn_v that_o every_o corruption_n in_o the_o service_n of_o god_n do_v not_o destroy_v the_o truth_n though_o it_o lessen_v the_o purity_n of_o it_o and_o that_o every_o defect_n do_v not_o deserve_v to_o be_v call_v a_o corruption_n that_o as_o to_o this_o matter_n some_o church_n be_v better_a and_o other_o worse_o none_o i_o doubt_v perfect_a but_o that_o there_o be_v one_o worst_a of_o all_o so_o very_o bad_a that_o peter_n waldo_n need_v not_o anny_n mission_n to_o declare_v against_o the_o corruption_n of_o it_o learn_v these_o thing_n as_o you_o ought_v to_o do_v against_o the_o next_o time_n
imprimatur_fw-la libre_fw-la cvi_fw-la titulus_fw-la several_a captious_a query_n etc._n etc._n guil._n needham_n may_v 10._o 1688._o several_a captious_a query_n concern_v the_o english_a reformation_n first_o propose_v by_o dean_n manby_n a_o irish_a convert_n in_o latin_n and_o afterward_o by_o t.w._n in_o english_a brief_o and_o full_o answer_v by_o the_o late_a reverend_n and_o learned_a dr._n clagett_n preacher_n to_o the_o honourable_a society_n of_o grays-inn_n and_o chaplain_n in_o ordinary_a to_o his_o majesty_n london_n print_v by_o h._n clark_n for_o james_n adamson_n at_o the_o angel_n and_o crown_n in_o st._n paul_n churchyard_n mdclxxxviii_o a_o answer_n to_o t._n w_n query_n sect._n 1_o quer._n the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v either_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n or_o a_o member_n thereof_o if_o a_o member_n only_o name_v i_o that_o church_n or_o congregation_n under_o the_o sun_n who_o sacrament_n and_o liturgy_n she_o embrace_v unless_o she_o have_v cut_v herself_o off_o form_n the_o rest_n of_o the_o body_n answ_n if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v spread_v over_o the_o face_n of_o the_o whole_a earth_n except_v here_o in_o england_n and_o nothing_o will_v serve_v but_o we_o or_o they_o must_v be_v the_o catholic_n church_n reason_n will_v require_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n shall_v be_v so_o which_o be_v the_o better_a and_o not_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o will_v be_v but_o the_o big_a church_n but_o we_o pretend_v not_o to_o be_v the_o catholic_n church_n because_o we_o neither_o need_v nor_o aught_o to_o boast_v beyond_o truth_n the_o sacrament_n we_o embrace_v be_v receive_v by_o all_o christian_a church_n in_o the_o world_n and_o no_o church_n ought_v to_o receive_v any_o more_o we_o embrace_v the_o liturgy_n of_o the_o other_o reform_a church_n and_o use_v our_o own_o as_o they_o use_v their_o own_o and_o embrace_v we_o we_o embrace_v all_o that_o honest_a christian_o can_v embrace_v in_o the_o liturgy_n of_o the_o unreformed_a and_o we_o reject_v the_o rest_n we_o have_v not_o cut_v ourselves_o off_o from_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o body_n but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v do_v so_o because_o she_o be_v resolve_v to_o be_v all_o or_o nothing_o sect._n 2_o quer._n do_v she_o allow_v the_o sacrament_n of_o lutheran_n or_o calvinist_n answ_n she_o allow_v and_o administer_v the_o same_o sacrament_n that_o lutheran_n and_o calvinist_n do_v not_o because_o they_o be_v sacrament_n celebrate_v by_o they_o or_o by_o any_o other_o but_o because_o they_o be_v sacrament_n institute_v by_o christ._n sect._n 3_o quer._n from_o whence_o be_v cranmer_n that_o first_o patriarch_n or_o reformer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n send_v who_o give_v he_o authority_n to_o preach_v his_o reform_a gospel_n be_v it_o just_a or_o honest_a for_o he_o to_o rise_v up_o against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n by_o virtue_n of_o a_o commission_n from_o she_o receive_v and_o if_o so_o i_o pray_v inform_v i_o whether_o a_o bishop_n or_o minister_n fall_v from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n may_v not_o also_o take_v upon_o he_o to_o preach_v against_o the_o church_n of_o england_n by_o pretence_n of_o the_o order_n receive_v from_o her_o hand_n answ_n cranmer_z be_v immediate_o send_v by_o the_o bishop_n that_o ordain_v and_o consecrate_a he_o original_o by_o christ_n who_o leave_v that_o power_n in_o the_o church_n by_o which_o they_o do_v so_o so_o far_o therefore_o as_o he_o be_v the_o first_o reformer_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n he_o do_v what_o become_v his_o mission_n better_a than_o if_o he_o have_v go_v on_o to_o maintain_v false_a doctrine_n as_o the_o patriarch_n of_o rome_n do_v that_o he_o be_v the_o first_o reformer_n be_v not_o his_o fault_n but_o they_o who_o go_v before_o he_o in_o that_o great_a station_n and_o shall_v have_v do_v the_o same_o thing_n but_o do_v it_o not_o the_o gospel_n which_o he_o preach_v be_v not_o the_o gospel_n of_o man_n and_o therefore_o not_o his_o own_o but_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n nor_o be_v it_o proper_o a_o reform_a gospel_n which_o he_o preach_v since_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o all_o age_n one_o and_o the_o same_o but_o if_o because_o he_o reform_v the_o profession_n of_o the_o church_n in_o some_o thing_n which_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o gospel_n though_o they_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v so_o he_o must_v be_v say_v to_o have_v preach_v a_o reform_a gospel_n neither_o be_v he_o to_o blame_v for_o that_o who_o duty_n it_o be_v to_o cast_v error_n out_o of_o the_o church_n but_o they_o only_o be_v to_o blame_v who_o have_v be_v so_o careless_a and_o treacherous_a as_o to_o let_v they_o in_o he_o do_v rise_v up_o against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n when_o he_o arise_v against_o the_o corruption_n of_o that_o church_n which_o have_v obtain_v in_o england_n unless_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n can_v subsist_v without_o such_o notorious_a error_n as_o he_o rise_v up_o against_o he_o be_v not_o her_o enemy_n unless_o he_o become_v so_o by_o tell_v she_o the_o truth_n nor_o be_v it_o true_a that_o he_o receive_v his_o commission_n from_o rome_n though_o he_o receive_v it_o by_o the_o hand_n of_o bishop_n that_o be_v in_o servitude_n to_o that_o see_v for_o his_o commission_n have_v be_v every_o whit_n as_o good_a if_o they_o have_v not_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o roman_a bishop_n as_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v be_v but_o since_o his_o obligation_n to_o christ_n from_o who_o he_o receive_v his_o commission_n by_o their_o hand_n be_v infinite_o great_a than_o to_o they_o it_o be_v just_a and_o honest_a in_o he_o to_o rise_v up_o against_o those_o unchristian_a doctrine_n and_o practice_n which_o they_o maintain_v and_o no_o less_o justifiable_a than_o to_o have_v rise_v up_o against_o the_o arian_n heresy_n if_o he_o have_v receive_v his_o order_n from_o arian_n bishop_n and_o if_o ever_o the_o church_n of_o england_n shall_v fall_v into_o the_o like_a corruption_n again_o which_o god_n forbid_v those_o bishop_n and_o minister_n that_o have_v receive_v order_n from_o her_o hand_n and_o who_o in_o discharge_n thereof_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o preach_v not_o against_o the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o against_o the_o wicked_a doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n those_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n i_o say_v will_v do_v not_o only_o what_o they_o may_v but_o what_o they_o ought_v to_o do_v and_o for_o the_o do_v of_o which_o they_o shall_v be_v reward_v at_o the_o last_o day_n by_o the_o great_a bishop_n and_o shepherd_n of_o soul_n by_o who_o authority_n and_o command_n they_o so_o do_v sect._n 4_o quer._n whether_o want_n of_o mission_n be_v not_o a_o error_n in_o the_o foundation_n of_o any_o church_n it_o be_v theft_n and_o robbery_n as_o our_o saviour_n have_v teach_v we_o not_o to_o enter_v by_o the_o door_n into_o the_o sheepfold_n answ_n that_o cranmer_n do_v or_o that_o our_o pastor_n now_o do_v want_n mission_n be_v falsehood_n insinuate_v by_o this_o query_n their_o mission_n have_v be_v more_o canonical_a than_o that_o of_o many_o of_o your_o pope_n have_v be_v but_o for_o once_o to_o answer_v direct_o to_o a_o impertinent_a question_n the_o want_n of_o such_o mission_n do_v not_o destroy_v the_o be_v or_o as_o you_o call_v it_o the_o foundation_n of_o a_o church_n nor_o be_v that_o the_o door_n of_o which_o our_o saviour_n speak_v in_o joh._n x._o since_o in_o the_o need_v of_o the_o church_n good_a shepherd_n may_v come_v into_o the_o fold_n without_o canonical_a mission_n and_o it_o have_v on_o the_o other_o side_n too_o often_o happen_v that_o thief_n and_o robber_n have_v come_v into_o the_o fold_n by_o it_o who_o come_v not_o but_o for_o to_o steal_v and_o to_o kill_v and_o to_o destroy_v sect._n 5_o quer._n whether_o cranmer_n enter_v by_o the_o parliament_n door_n or_o by_o the_o gate_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o this_o latter_a be_v the_o old_a song_n of_o heretic_n and_o sectary_n perpetual_o boast_v of_o scripture_n i_o demand_v therefore_o do_v not_o the_o bible_n admit_v of_o various_a interpretation_n whence_o of_o necessity_n some_o judge_n be_v to_o be_v assign_v to_o determine_v which_o be_v the_o true_a interpretation_n unless_o your_o inclination_n be_v to_o wrangle_v to_o all_o eternity_n answ_n to_o the_o first_o of_o these_o profound_a interrogation_n i_o answer_v thus_o that_o if_o cranmer_n enter_v by_o the_o parliament_n door_n it_o be_v a_o door_n at_o which_o you_o whoever_o you_o be_v will_v be_v glad_a to_o enter_v too_o provide_v you_o can_v get_v in_o without_o first_o pass_v the_o gate_n of_o the_o scripture_n which_o you_o shut_v up_o against_o man_n for_o you_o neither_o go_v in_o yourselves_o neither_o suffer_v you_o they_o that_o be_v enter_v to_o go_v in_o for_o your_o say_n