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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A00793 The answere vnto the nine points of controuersy, proposed by our late soueraygne (of famous memory) vnto M. Fisher of the Society of Iesus And the reioynder vnto the reply of D. Francis VVhite minister. With the picture of the sayd minister, or censure of his writings prefixed. Fisher, John, 1569-1641.; Floyd, John, 1572-1649. 1626 (1626) STC 10911; ESTC S102112 538,202 656

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especial_o unto_o 79._o unto_o basil._n epist_n ad_fw-la caesar._n patritium_fw-la pratum_fw-la spiritual_n c._n 79._o eremite_n to_o be_v carry_v in_o most_o pure_a linen_n corporal_n home_n to_o their_o house_n to_o be_v take_v in_o the_o morning_n before_o all_o other_o meat_n but_o there_o be_v no_o sign_n or_o token_n in_o antiquity_n that_o the_o faithful_a together_o with_o the_o consecrate_a bread_n do_v carry_v away_o with_o they_o consecrate_a wine_n yea_o diverse_a history_n show_v the_o only_a form_n of_o bread_n kind_n bread_n minister_n pag._n 504._o it_o be_v a_o ancient_a custom_n to_o send_v the_o communion_n to_o person_n absent_a in_o both_o kind_n as_o appear_v by_o exuperius_n in_o s._n hierome_n tom._n 1._o epist._n 4._o and_o s._n gregory_n nazianzen_n of_o his_o sister_n gorgonia_n answer_n exuperius_n no_o layman_n but_o bishop_n of_o tholosa_n have_v sell_v the_o silver_n ciboriums_n &_o chalice_n of_o his_o church_n to_o maintain_v the_o poor_a be_v force_v through_o poverty_n to_o keep_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n in_o a_o basket_n of_o osier_n &_o in_o a_o glasse-cup_n so_o carry_v they_o about_o when_o he_o do_v administer_v the_o same_o in_o the_o church_n to_o the_o people_n but_o that_o he_o carry_v the_o blood_n of_o our_o saviour_n in_o a_o glass_n out_o of_o the_o church_n about_o he_o s._n hierome_n do_v not_o say_v yea_o he_o signify_v that_o this_o use_n of_o osier-basket_n &_o glasse-cup_n be_v in_o the_o church_n say_v nihil_fw-la ditius_fw-la exuperio_fw-la nostro_fw-la qui_fw-la corpus_fw-la domini_fw-la canistro_fw-la vimineo_fw-la &_o sanguinen_n portat_fw-la in_o vitro_fw-la qui_fw-la avaritiam_fw-la eiecit_fw-la etemplo_fw-la nothing_o be_v more_o rich_a than_o exuperius_n who_o do_v carry_v the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n in_o a_o osier-basket_n and_o his_o blood_n in_o a_o glass_n who_o have_v cast_v covetousness_n out_o of_o the_o church_n nor_o be_v it_o probable_a that_o he_o carry_v the_o blood_n about_o he_o in_o a_o glass_n when_o he_o go_v any_o journey_n expose_v the_o same_o to_o manifest_a danger_n of_o be_v irreverent_o spill_v special_o glass_n be_v so_o brittle_a and_o easy_o break_v and_o the_o ancient_n exceed_v solicitous_a and_o anxious_a that_o the_o blood_n may_v not_o be_v shed_v nor_o any_o particle_n of_o the_o sacred_a bread_n fall_v to_o the_o ground_n s._n gregory_n nazianzen_n say_v of_o his_o sister_n gorgonia_n pray_v earnest_o for_o the_o recovery_n of_o her_o health_n that_o whatsoever_o of_o the_o antitype_n or_o image_n of_o the_o precious_a body_n and_o blood_n her_o hand_n have_v hide_v that_o she_o do_v bath_n &_o mingle_v with_o her_o tear_n which_o place_n vasquez_n who_o you_o so_o commend_v as_o learned_a and_o intelligent_a do_v show_v to_o be_v speak_v of_o holy_a image_n of_o christ_n passion_n and_o death_n not_o of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n for_o woman_n be_v never_o permit_v to_o touch_v the_o sacred_a chalice_n with_o their_o hand_n nor_o to_o keep_v consecrate_v cup_n in_o their_o house_n for_o the_o blood_n but_o only_o white_a linen_n corporal_n for_o the_o body_n it_o have_v be_v also_o against_o the_o reverence_n ancient_a christian_a devotion_n do_v bear_v to_o the_o precious_a blood_n of_o our_o saviour_n for_o she_o to_o have_v pour_v her_o tear_n into_o the_o sacred_a chalice_n mingle_v they_o with_o the_o precious_a blood_n so_o that_o there_o be_v no_o sign_n in_o antiquity_n that_o layman_n do_v keep_v in_o their_o private_a house_n or_o do_v carry_v about_o they_o the_o blood_n of_o our_o saviour_n in_o the_o form_n of_o wine_n therefore_o in_o their_o private_a house_n and_o out_o of_o the_o church_n they_o still_o receive_v in_o one_o kind_n be_v carry_v away_o and_o consequent_o that_o the_o church_n do_v not_o then_o esteem_v of_o communion_n under_o one_o kind_n as_o of_o a_o sacrilegious_a maym_v of_o the_o sacrament_n as_o protestant_n now_o do_v three_o it_o be_v a_o ancient_a custom_n in_o the_o grecian_a 52._o grecian_a council_n loadicen_n can_v 49._o &_o trullen_n can_v 52._o church_n to_o consecrate_v the_o holy_a eucharist_n on_o saturdaye_n and_o sunday_n &_o on_o the_o other_o day_n of_o the_o week_n to_o communicate_v ex_fw-la praesanctificatis_fw-la of_o the_o presanctify_v form_n that_o be_v consecrate_v on_o the_o saturday_n or_o sunday_n before_o now_o it_o be_v not_o probable_a that_o they_o do_v consecrate_v wine_n to_o endure_v five_o or_o six_o day_n long_o for_o fear_v special_o in_o such_o hot_a country_n the_o same_o shall_v grow_v sour_a wherefore_o for_o the_o most_o part_n they_o do_v communicate_v under_o one_o kind_n four_o the_o quadrag_n the_o leo._n serm_n 4._o the_o quadrag_n manichee_n live_v in_o rome_n and_o other_o place_n shroud_a themselves_o among_o catholic_n go_v to_o their_o church_n receive_v the_o sacrament_n public_o with_o they_o under_o the_o sole_a form_n of_o bread_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v not_o note_v nor_o thereby_o discern_v from_o 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do_v use_v to_o do_v hence_o even_o vasquez_n do_v acknowledge_v that_o this_o argument_n draw_v from_o the_o dissimulation_n of_o heretic_n namely_o of_o the_o macedonian_a woman_n relate_v by_o sozom._n l._n 8._o c._n 5._o be_v probabile_fw-la &_o valde_fw-la apparens_fw-la probable_a and_o very_a apparent_a to_o prove_v that_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n be_v arbitrary_a and_o a_o thing_n indifferent_a in_o the_o ancient_a church_n the_o last_o argument_n be_v practice_v of_o the_o apostle_n that_o be_v of_o the_o first_o christian_n under_o they_o of_o who_o we_o read_v in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n 2.42_o apostle_n act._n 2.42_o erant_fw-la perseverantes_fw-la in_o doctrina_fw-la apostolorum_fw-la &_o communicatione_n fractionis_fw-la panis_fw-la &_o orationibus_fw-la speak_v of_o sacred_a eucharistical_a bread_n the_o take_v whereof_o be_v join_v with_o prayer_n which_o unto_o the_o new_o baptize_v be_v
and_o in_o they_o that_o by_o nature_n loathe_a wine_n and_o as_o this_o be_v certain_a and_o grant_v on_o our_o part_n so_o it_o be_v no_o less_o certain_a that_o the_o primitive_a church_n do_v never_o practice_v the_o use_n of_o the_o cup_n as_o pertain_v to_o the_o essential_a integrity_n of_o the_o sacrament_n or_o as_o command_v by_o divine_a precept_n but_o think_v the_o receive_n under_o one_o and_o both_o kind_n a_o thing_n indifferent_a this_o may_v be_v prove_v by_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o time_n since_o christ_n ascend_v from_o our_o day_n upward_o whence_o i_o gather_v five_o argument_n first_o be_v the_o confession_n of_o our_o adversary_n among_o who_o a_o bohemian_n protestant_n 19_o protestant_n joan._n przibrau_n confess_v fid._n cath._n c._n 19_o do_v profess_v that_o have_v the_o fear_n of_o god_n before_o his_o eye_n he_o dare_v not_o censure_v the_o roman_a church_n of_o heresy_n in_o this_o point_n 112._o point_n hospin_n histor._n sacram_fw-la p._n 2._o fol._n 112._o hospinian_n write_v that_o some_o protestant_n confess_v that_o whole_a christ_n be_v real_o present_a exhibit_v and_o receive_v under_o every_o kind_n and_o therefore_o under_o the_o only_a form_n of_o bread_n and_o that_o they_o do_v not_o judge_v those_o to_o do_v evil_a that_o communicate_v under_o one_o kind_n 78._o kind_n melanct._n in_o 2._o edit_n comm._n impress_n argent_fw-fr a_o 1525._o fol._n 78._o melancthon_n as_o to_o eat_v or_o not_o to_o eat_v swine_n flesh_n be_v place_v in_o our_o power_n &_o a_o thing_n indifferent_a so_o say_v he_o i_o judge_v of_o the_o eucharist_n that_o they_o sin_v not_o who_o know_v &_o believe_v this_o liberty_n do_v use_v either_o part_n of_o the_o sign_n and_o luther_n eucharistia_n luther_n luther_n de_fw-fr captiu_fw-la babylon_n cap._n de_fw-fr eucharistia_n they_o sin_v not_o against_o christ_n who_o use_v one_o kind_n see_v christ_n do_v not_o command_v to_o use_v both_o but_o have_v leave_v it_o to_o the_o will_n of_o 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c._n 14._o he_o write_v that_o a_o certain_a man_n according_a to_o a_o revelation_n do_v present_o die_v the_o mass_n be_v end_v viatico_fw-la dominici_n corporis_fw-la &_o sanguinis_fw-la accepto_fw-la be_v idle_a for_o the_o sacrament_n in_o one_o kind_n contain_v in_o it_o christ_n body_n &_o blood_n both_o may_v be_v term_v viaticum_fw-la dominici_n corporis_fw-la &_o sanguinis_fw-la the_o food_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o lord_n of_o england_n ever_o since_o her_o first_o conversion_n under_o saint_n gregory_n be_v use_v communion_n under_o one_o kind_n for_o the_o laity_n which_o can_v never_o have_v enter_v into_o the_o church_n without_o be_v note_v &_o mark_v as_o a_o heresy_n have_v not_o the_o church_n ever_o hold_v communion_n under_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n as_o a_o thing_n of_o indifferency_n the_o four_o argument_n be_v draw_v from_o many_o sign_n and_o token_n that_o the_o primitive_a church_n do_v sometime_o use_v communion_n under_o one_o kind_n first_o the_o sick_a receive_v under_o the_o only_a form_n of_o bread_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o the_o history_n of_o serapion_n relate_v by_o fabium_fw-la by_o euseb._n l._n 6._o histor._n c._n 36._o ex_fw-la ep_n dionys._n alexandrin_n ad_fw-la fabium_fw-la eusebius_n and_o the_o grecian_n at_o this_o day_n genebrardus_n day_n genebrardus_n though_o they_o give_v the_o cup_n to_o the_o communicant_n in_o the_o church_n yet_o to_o the_o sick_a they_o send_v the_o sacrament_n under_o one_o kind_n yea_o saint_n ambrose_n as_o paulinus_n ambrosi●_n paulinus_n paulinus_n in_o vita_fw-la ambrosi●_n relate_v in_o his_o life_n at_o his_o death_n receive_v the_o sacrament_n under_o the_o sole_a form_n of_o bread_n and_o straight_o after_o the_o receive_n thereof_o give_v up_o his_o soul_n second_o it_o be_v a_o ancient_a custom_n in_o the_o church_n to_o give_v the_o sacrament_n unto_o layman_n 55._o layman_n tertullian_n ad_fw-la uxor_fw-la c._n 55._o
unto_o which_o themselves_o say_v specious_a answer_n be_v make_v yea_o upon_o the_o argument_n that_o have_v neither_o substance_n nor_o seemliness_n neither_o form_n nor_o speciosity_n in_o they_o and_o this_o will_v be_v more_o clear_o confirm_v by_o the_o ensue_a confutation_n of_o the_o minister_n reply_v which_o against_o the_o answer_n unto_o the_o nine_o point_n come_v forth_o at_o last_o after_o two_o year_n expectation_n he_o pretend_v that_o his_o book_n be_v long_o before_o finish_v &_o ready_a for_o the_o print_n in_o his_o preface_n he_o stay_v that_o he_o may_v cite_v word_n by_o word_n the_o sentence_n of_o the_o author_n quote_v in_o his_o margin_n that_o so_o his_o work_n may_v be_v more_o useful_a unto_o such_o as_o want_v the_o benefit_n of_o library_n which_o excuse_n to_o be_v false_a his_o margin_n proclaim_v in_o innumerable_a place_n i_o shall_v rather_o think_v consider_v the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o time_n if_o his_o book_n be_v so_o long_o before_o ready_a that_o another_o reason_n stay_v the_o print_n thereof_o you_o may_v remember_v that_o the_o catholic_n of_o england_n by_o the_o clemency_n of_o our_o late_a sovereign_n during_o those_o two_o year_n have_v more_o calm_a day_n and_o a_o season_n of_o some_o more_o freedom_n than_o many_o year_n before_o they_o enjoy_v whereby_o the_o mind_n of_o protestant_n become_v more_o free_a &_o unpartial_a more_o erect_v to_o understand_v the_o issue_n of_o the_o controversye_n between_o they_o and_o we_o and_o less_o unwilling_a to_o see_v the_o catholic_a truth_n which_o now_o they_o may_v with_o less_o trouble_n &_o danger_n embrace_v wherefore_o the_o minister_n book_n not_o dare_v to_o appear_v in_o these_o sunshine_n day_n of_o more_o sincere_a and_o unpassionate_a judgement_n be_v by_o he_o reserve_v to_o be_v publish_v when_o the_o sky_n shall_v be_v darken_v with_o the_o cloud_n of_o persecution_n and_o displeasure_n without_o which_o protection_n of_o darkness_n it_o will_v perchance_o never_o have_v come_v to_o sight_n even_o as_o deform_a bird_n the_o daytime_n lie_v hide_v in_o barn_n in_o night_n abroad_o they_o fly_v for_o when_o former_a amity_n and_o peace_n with_o catholic_a prince_n begin_v to_o be_v shake_v when_o the_o parliament_n be_v hot_a in_o petition_v for_o a_o persecution_n of_o catholic_n with_o uttermost_a rigour_n then_o present_o go_v the_o minister_n book_n to_o the_o press_n and_o not_o long_o after_o when_o the_o decree_n for_o persecution_n be_v enact_v come_v forth_o secure_a and_o joyful_a answer_v to_o the_o jesuit_n preface_n in_o fine_a chant_v as_o siren_n sing_v in_o tempest_n certain_a verse_n of_o ovid_n extend_v by_o his_o vote_n and_o suffrage_n the_o persecution_n decree_v for_o england_n to_o the_o roman_a church_n far_o &_o near_o qua_fw-la roma_fw-la patet_fw-la fera_fw-fr regnat_fw-la erynnis_n in_o facinus_fw-la iurasse_n pute_fw-la dent_fw-la ocius_n omnes_fw-la quas_fw-la meruere_fw-la pati_fw-la sic_fw-la stat_fw-la sententia_fw-la poenas_fw-la and_o who_o shall_v with_o indifferency_n review_v the_o book_n may_v find_v the_o same_o have_v good_a reason_n to_o fly_v the_o light_n be_v every_o where_o full_a of_o afflictive_a term_n and_o spiteful_a inuective_n which_o can_v give_v no_o content_n but_o only_o to_o mind_n dim_v with_o the_o extreme_a passion_n of_o dislike_n who_o take_v pleasure_n to_o read_v not_o what_o may_v convince_v and_o convert_v but_o what_o may_v grieve_v and_o gall_v the_o adversary_n wherein_o the_o jesuit_n have_v some_o cause_n to_o complain_v that_o his_o answer_n be_v so_o moderate_a and_o temperate_a without_o any_o sharp_a term_n against_o protestant_n still_o excuse_v their_o error_n &_o mistake_n by_o the_o forwardness_n of_o their_o zeal_n he_o have_v reason_n i_o say_v to_o grieve_v that_o his_o treatise_n write_v with_o such_o charity_n and_o modesty_n and_o this_o not_o upon_o his_o own_o pleasure_n but_o enforce_v by_o his_o majesty_n command_n can_v not_o find_v in_o england_n a_o proportionable_a reply_n tend_v towards_o a_o calm_a clear_n of_o the_o truth_n but_o be_v set_v upon_o by_o fierce_a reproach_n as_o if_o he_o have_v be_v urge_v to_o write_v for_o no_o other_o end_n but_o that_o a_o minister_n may_v have_v occasion_n to_o disgorge_v towards_o he_o and_o his_o religion_n the_o bitterness_n of_o his_o gall_n it_o be_v true_a that_o with_o these_o reproachful_a discourse_n the_o minister_n have_v mingle_v matter_n of_o substance_n that_o be_v all_o the_o principal_a shift_n devise_v by_o other_o and_o which_o he_o can_v devise_v himself_o to_o give_v a_o show_n to_o his_o religion_n or_o to_o obscure_v the_o light_n and_o evidence_n of_o the_o catholic_a which_o have_v he_o set_v down_o learned_o and_o calm_o without_o the_o admixtion_n of_o so_o much_o rageful_a impertinency_n his_o book_n have_v be_v of_o lesser_a bulk_n whereby_o also_o one_o good_a piece_n of_o this_o rejoinder_n may_v have_v be_v spare_v to_o wit_n the_o censure_n prefix_v before_o the_o same_o my_o purpose_n indeed_o be_v to_o have_v pass_v over_o his_o bitter_a inuective_n &_o large_a impertinency_n with_o contempt_n and_o only_o have_v touch_v what_o be_v real_o of_o substance_n but_o the_o request_n of_o friend_n win_v i_o to_o the_o contrary_n for_o they_o consider_v that_o many_o be_v carry_v away_o to_o their_o perdition_n not_o by_o the_o minister_n learning_n but_o by_o their_o opinion_n thereof_o think_v it_o necessary_a i_o shall_v prefix_v a_o discovery_n of_o his_o inside_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o this_o rejoinder_n as_o he_o have_v place_v a_o fair_a picture_n of_o his_o outside_n with_o diverse_a glorious_a emblem_n to_o his_o honour_n upon_o the_o front_n of_o his_o reply_n in_o which_o prefix_a censure_n in_o every_o passage_n thereof_o matter_n of_o substance_n be_v handle_v yet_o my_o principal_a drift_n be_v to_o make_v the_o same_o a_o picture_n wherein_o the_o minister_n ignorance_n in_o all_o sort_n of_o science_n &_o his_o falsify_v of_o all_o kind_n of_o author_n be_v set_v forth_o not_o with_o the_o black_a coal_n of_o bare_a verbal_a accusation_n ●ut_v with_o the_o lightsome_a and_o lively_a colour_n of_o evident_a proof_n which_o that_o they_o may_v be_v more_o indelible_a be_v oil_v with_o commiseration_n of_o his_o blindness_n and_o of_o his_o deceive_v credent_n that_o on_o he_o for_o their_o salvation_n rely_v in_o the_o rejoinder_n which_o be_v collateral_o join_v with_o the_o text_n of_o the_o answer_n unto_o the_o nine_o point_n the_o matter_n of_o substance_n in_o the_o minister_n reply_v that_o indeed_o may_v breed_v doubt_n to_o man_n not_o perfect_o learn_v be_v refute_v the_o difficulty_n be_v not_o dissemble_v nor_o shun_v the_o same_o be_v set_v down_o common_o in_o the_o minister_n word_n with_o the_o whole_a force_n &_o pith_n thereof_o sum_v together_o the_o refutation_n present_o follow_v not_o by_o the_o sole_a contradiction_n of_o word_n but_o by_o the_o opposition_n of_o reason_n these_o as_o they_o be_v ordinary_o still_o of_o number_n so_o i_o hope_v the_o reader_n will_v find_v they_o to_o be_v likewise_o of_o weight_n that_o ponder_v they_o and_o compare_v they_o with_o the_o minister_n in_o the_o balance_n of_o unpartial_a judgement_n he_o will_v easy_o see_v towards_o who_o the_o doctrine_n not_o only_o of_o christian_a tradition_n but_o also_o of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n incline_v if_o any_o wonder_n that_o this_o treatise_n come_v forth_o no_o soon_o the_o time_n be_v more_o than_o a_o year_n and_o a_o half_a since_o the_o minister_n reply_v be_v print_v let_v he_o consider_v that_o it_o be_v a_o good_a while_n after_o the_o print_n thereof_o before_o the_o same_o come_v to_o my_o hand_n in_o regard_n of_o my_o absence_n &_o great_a distance_n from_o london_n the_o book_n be_v huge_a and_o vast_a that_o to_o read_v the_o same_o attentive_o time_n and_o disoccupation_n be_v require_v the_o vastness_n thereof_o be_v likewise_o the_o cause_n the_o same_o can_v not_o be_v confute_v verbatim_o which_o have_v be_v easy_a without_o make_v a_o book_n as_o big_a as_o calepine_n with_o great_a and_o unnecessary_a charge_n which_o also_o be_v so_o big_a will_v never_o have_v find_v passage_n and_o utterance_n in_o time_n of_o difficulty_n hence_o the_o rejoiner_n be_v force_v not_o only_o to_o read_v his_o huge_a volume_n attentive_o but_o also_o to_o choose_v and_o sum_n together_o what_o the_o reply_n contain_v of_o substance_n sever_a the_o same_o from_o the_o dross_n of_o impertinent_a reproach_n which_o cost_v he_o both_o time_n and_o labour_n beside_o about_o the_o time_n this_o work_n shall_v have_v go_v to_o the_o print_n above_o a_o year_n ago_o they_o that_o shall_v have_v concur_v unto_o the_o print_n thereof_o be_v call_v to_o another_o place_n by_o their_o necessary_a occasion_n and_o stay_v away_o more_o than_o half_a a_o year_n in_o which_o case_n we_o have_v not_o