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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A02522	A common apologie of the Church of England against the vniust challenges of the ouer-iust sect, commonly called Brownists. Wherein the grounds and defences, of the separation are largely discussed: occasioned, by a late pamphlet published vnder the name, of an answer to a censorious epistle, which the reader shall finde in the margent. By I.H.	Hall, Joseph, 1574-1656.; Robinson, John, 1575?-1625. Answer to a censorious epistle.	1610 (1610)	STC 12649; ESTC S103653	113,921	160

but the men Shall we say this is too much malice or too little wit and conscience Euen in the Lord Protectors daies that holy man reports that after the Scriptures restored and Masses abolished greater thinges followed these softer beginnings in the reformation of the Churches Learned and godly Diuines were called for from forraine parts a separation was made though not so much willing as wilfull of open and manifest aduersaries from Professors whether true or dissembled Commissioners were appointed to visite euery seuerall Diocesse Euery Bench of them had seuerall godly and learned Preachers to instruct the people in the truth and to disswade them from Idolatry and Superstition The Popes Supremacy not thrust but taught downe All wil-worshippe whatsoeuer oppugned by publique Sermons Images destroyed Pilgrimages forbidden the Sacraments inioyned to be reuerently and holily ministred Ecclesiastical persons reformed in life in doctrine Processions laide downe Presence and attendance vpon Gods word commanded the holy expending of Sabboth dayes appointed due preparation to Gods table called for set times of teaching inioyened to Bishoppes and other Ministers all shr●nes and Monuments of Idolatry required to be vtterly taken from publique and priuate houses All this before his Parliament By that all bloody lawes against Gods trueth were repealed zealous Preachers encouraged so as saith that worthy Historian God was much glorified and the people in many places greatly edified What neede I goe further then this first yeare Heare this and be ashamed and assure your selues that no man can euer read those holy Monuments of the Church but must needes spit at your separation After that sweete and hopefull Prince what his renowmed sister Queene Elizabeth did the present times doe speake and the future shall speake when all these Murmurers shall sleepe in the dust The publique disputations zealous Preachings restaurations of banished religion and men extirpations of Idolatry Christian lawes wise and holy proceedings and renewed couenants with God are still fresh in the memories of some and in the eares of all so as all the world wil iustly say you haue lost shame with truth in denying it Yea to fetch the matter yet further If the Reader shall looke backe to the daies of their Puissant Father King Henry the eight he cannot but acknowledge especially during the time of Queene Anne and before those sixe bloody Articles a true face of a Church though ouer-spreade with some morphue of corruptions and some commendable forwardnesse of Reformation for both the Popes Supremacy was abrogated the true doctrine of Iustification commonly taught confidence in Saints vntaught the vanity of Pardons declared worshippe of Images and Pilgrimages forbidden learned and godly Ministers required their absences and mis-demeaners inhibited the Scriptures translated publickly and priuately inioyned to be read and receiued the word of God commaunded to be sincerely and carefully preached and to all this holy Master Foxe addeth for my conclusion such a vigilant care was then in the King and his Councell how by all wayes and meanes to redresse Religion to reforme errours to correct corrupt customes to helpe ignorance and to reduce the mis-leadings of Christs Flocke drowned in blinde Popery superstitious customes and Idolatry to some better forme of Reformation whereunto he prouided not onely these Articles Precepts Iniunctions aboue specified to inform the rude people but also procured the Bishops to helpe forward the same cause of decayed doctrine with their diligent preaching and teaching of the people Goe now say that suddenly in one day by Queen Elizabeths trumpet or by the sound of a Bell in the name of Antichrist all were called to the Church Goe say with your Patriarch that wee erect Religions by Proclamations and Parliaments Vpon these premises I dare conclude and doubt not to maintaine against all Separatists in the world that England to goe no higher had in the daies of King Henry the eight a true visible Church of God and so by consequent their succeeding seede was by true Baptisme iustly admitted into the bosome therof and therefore that euen of them without any further profession Gods Church was truly constituted If you shall say that the following Idolatrie of some of them in Queene Maries daies excluded them Consider how hard it will be to prooue that Gods couenant with any people is presently disanulled by the sinnes of the most whether of ignorance or weakenesse and if they had herein renounced GOD yet that GOD also mutually renounced them To shut vppe your Constitution then There is no remedy Eyther you must goe forward to Anabaptisme or come backe to vs All your Rabbines ca●not aunswere that charge of your rebaptized brother If wee bee a true Church you must returne If wee bee not as a false Church is no Church of GOD you must rebaptise If our Baptisme be good then is our constitution good Thus your owne Principles teach The outward parte of the true visible Church is a Vowe Promise Oathe or Couenant betwixt GOD and the Saints Now I aske Is this made by vs in Baptisme or noe If it be then we haue by your Confession for so much as is outwardly required a true visible Church so your separation is vniust If it be not then you must rebaptise for the first Baptisme is a nullity and if ours be not you were neuer thereby as yet entred into any visible Church SECTION XII The Aunswerers title AS for the title of Ring-leader wherewith I stiled this pamphleter if I haue giuen him too much honour in his Sect I am sory Perhappes I should haue put him pardon an homely but in this sense not vnusall word in the taile of this Traine Perhaps I should haue endorsed my Letter to Master Smith and his shadow So I perceiue he was Whatsoeuer whither he lead or follow God meetes with him If hee lead Behold I will come against them that prophesie false dreames saith the Lorde and doe tell them and cause my people to erre by their lies If he come behinde Thou shalt not follow a multitude in euill saith God If either or both or neither If he will goe alone Woe vnto the foolish Prophets saith the Lord which follow their owne spirits and haue seene nothing Howsoeuer your euill shall bee reproued by the light of Gods word Your coni●●ction I cannot promise your reproofe I dare If therupon you shall finde grace to see and heale your errours we should with all brotherly humblenesse attend on foote vpon your returne on Horse-backe but if the sway of your mis-resolued conscience bee heady and vnresistable and your retyring hopelesse these not solide reasons these pretty pamphlets these formall flourishes shall one day be fearefull and materiall euidences against you before that awefull Iudge which hath already sayd That iudgements are prepared for the scorners and stripes for the backe of fooles SECTION XIII The Apostacie of the Church of England I professed

worse then the Infidell And the olde vulgar can giue no worse tearme to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where he findes it yea to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rebels themselues What doth this brand to a Church not Christian onely though you denie it but famous Of whom is truely verefied after all your splene that which the spirit writes to the Angel of Ephesus Laborasti non Defecisti Say if you can what Article of the Christian and Apostolike faith haue we renounced What heresie maintaine wee Wherein haue wee runne from the tents of Christ What hold we that may not stand with life in Christ and saluation VVe challenge all men and Diuels in this point for our innocence Distinguish for starke shame of so foule a word or which is better eate it whole and let not this blemish be left vpon your soule and name in the Records of God and the world that you once said of a Church too good for yours Drencht in apostacy If we crie Peace whiles you crie Apostasie surely we flatter whiles you rayle betwixt these two dangerous extremes wee know an wholsome meane so to approue that we foster not security so to censure that we neither reuile nor separate and in one word to doe that which your Pastor could exhort the separators from your Separation for euen this Schisme hath Schismes If we should mislike yet to rest in our differences of iudgement and notwithstanding peaceably to continue with the Church Had you taken this course you should neither haue needed to expect our pitie nor to complaine of our cruelty Surely whether our loue be cruell or not your hatred is whereof take heede least you heare from old Iacob Cursed be their wrath for it was fierce and their rage for it was cruell How can you expect compassion when you breath fire and write gall Neuer mention the fury of others indignation till the venemous and desperate writings of Barrow and Greenwood bee evther worne out with time or by the Thunder-bolts of your not rare censures be strucke downe to hell whence their maliciousnesse came I forbeare to recapitulate how much rather had I helpe to burie then to reuiue such vn-christian exprobrations SECTION XIIII The Separatists acknowledgements of the graces of the Church of England INgratitude and vnnaturalnesse to your Mother is obiected In that you flie from her yea now wo is me that you spit in her face and mark her for an harlot VVould God the accusation were as farre from being iust as from being triuiall Yet perhappes you intend it not in the lightnesse of this charge but the commonnesse you haue caused me to smart for my charity yet I forbeare it not VVhat is your defence That you haue done her no wrong to your knowledge Modestly spoken but doubtfully we know your wrong but we know not your knowledge it is well if your wrong be not wilful an ignorant wrong is both in more hope of amends and of mercie But is not this caution added rather for that you thinke no hard measure can possibly be a wrong to so vile a Church I aske and would be denied No you doe freely and with all thankefulnesse acknowledge euery good thing she hath VVhatsoeuer you doe to vs I will not any more in fauour of you wilfully wrong my selfe you haue bidden men now to take you as a complete Separatist and speake this for your selfe and yours Let the Reader now iudge whether the wrong of your Sect be wilful and acknowledgment of our good free and thankfull Your first false-named Martyr shall giue the first witnes of the titles of our Church VVho saith he that were not drunke and intoxicate with the VVhores cuppe could affirme this confuse Babell these cages of vncleane Birds these prisons of foule and hatefull spirits to be the Spouse of Christ And else-where he calles the people of our Church Goates and Swine Is this any wrong to your knowledge The same Author They haue not saith he in their Churches any one thing in their practise and proceedings not one pin naile or hooke according to the true patterne Doe you not now freely and thankefully acknowledge our Churches good things VVhat is more ordinary with him and his brother in euill I. Greenewood then to call our worthie Ministers Baals Priests Cainites the marked seruants of Antichrist sellers of the VVhores wares worshippers of the Beast Is this yet any wrong to your knowledge Pastor Iohnson sticks not to say that the Ministerie and worshippe of the Church of England were taken out of the VVhores cuppe and plainely stiles our Church as which of you doe not daughter of the great Babilon that mother of whoredomes and abhominations of the earth yet more That Hierarchy Worshippe Constitution and Gouernement which they professe and practise being directly Antichristian doe vtterly destroy true Christianity so as their people and Churches cannot in that estate be iudged true Christians Do you not now freely and thankfully acknowledge our good things What can any Diuell of hell say worse against vs then this That we are no Christians Or what good can there be in vs if no true Christianity If wee denied euery Article of the Christian Creed if we were Mahumetans as your good Pastor stickes not to compare vs if the most damned Heretiques vnder heauen what could he say but no Christians Your teacher and Pastour which is a wonder agree For your Doctor Ainsworth makes this one head of his poysonous Counterpoyson that Christ is not the head Mediatour Prophet Priest King of the Church of England You their Disciple are not yet promoted to this height of immodestie yet what are your good things Euen to you we are Apostates Traytors Rebels Babylonish This is well for a learner Hereafter if you will heare me keepe our good things to your selfe and report our euill Yea that your vncharitablenesse may bee aboue all examples monstrous You doe not onely denie vs any interest in the Church of Christ but exclude vs what you may from all hope and possibilitie of attaining the honour of Christendome For when a godly Minister protested to Master Barrow the trueth of his ministerie vpon the approbation also of his people hee receiued this answere from him Though you had such allowance it could nothing auaile but rather ouerthrow your Ministerie they being as yet vngathered to Christ and therefore neither may not in this estate chuse them a Minister nor any exercise a Ministerie vnto them without hainous sacriledge O desperate iudgement we neither are Christians nor can be No Christianitie without faith no faith without the Ministerie of the word no word to vs without sacriledge What are we that the very offer of bringing vs to God should be criminall These are your acknowledgements of our good Who haue learned of your Pastour to kisse and kill all at once to

and liuely stones 1. Kin. 5. 17. 18 6. 7. 1. pet 2. 5. and of the Cedars Firs and Thyne trees of Lebanon 2. Chr. 2. 8. framed and set together in that comely order which a greater then Salomon hath prescri●ed vnto which God hath promised his presence But whilst we take it to be as it is a confused heape of dead and defiled and polluted stones and of all rubbish of Bryers and brambles of the wildernesse for the most part fitter for burning then building we take our selues rather bound to shew our obedience in departing from it then our valour in purging it and to follow the prophets councel in flying out of Babylon as the hee goats before the flock Ie● 50. 8 Sep. And what I pray you is the valour which the best hearted and most zealous Reformers amongst you haue manifested in driuing out the Mony-changers doth it not appeare in this that they suffer themselues to be driuen out with the two stringed Whippe of Ceremonies and subscription by the Mony-changers the Chancellers and Officials which sell. sinnes like Doues and by the chiefe priests the Bishoppes which set them on worke so farre are the most zealous amongst you from driuing out the Mony-changers as they themselues are driuen out by them because they will not change with them to the vtmost farthing Bar. Refor without Tar. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVee charge him not to serue any more So Can. 15. Can. 25. Cum compertū fuerit deponatur Can. 10. De Clericatus honore periclitabitur Can. 2. E clero deponatur sit alienus a Canone Can. 17. et Can. 18. A ministerio cessare debuerit Concil Sardic c. 4. Cōcil Carth. 4. c. 48. 56. 57. Leo. Ep. 1. Sect. 5. Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9. S●cr l. 2. c. 21. Bar ag Gyff p. 27. 88. Sep. For the Wafers in Geneua and disorders in Corinth they were corruptions which may and doe or the like vnto them creep into the purest Churches in the world for the reformation wherof Christ hath giuen his power vnto his Church that such euils as are brought in by humane frailty may by diuine authority bee purged out This power and presence of Christ you want holding all by homage or rather by vilenage vnder the Prelates vnto whose sinfull yoake you stoup in more then Babylonish bondage bearing and approuing by personall communion infinite abhominations Troubl Excom at Amsterd An tu solus Ecclesia es Et qui te offenderit a Christo excluditur Hieron Eriphan Cypr. Solus in caelum ascend Pupianus Et ad Acesium Nouatianum Constant. Erigito tibi scalam Acesi ad caelum solus ascendito Socr. l. 1. C. 7. Bar. Gyff ref So some of their owne haue termed their excommunication Confess by M. Iohns Inqu p. 65 Col. 1. 18. Sep. And in these two last respects principally your Babylonish confusion of all sorts of people in the body of your Church without separation and your Babylonish bondage vnder your spirituall Lords the Prelates we account you Babylon and flie from you Amari Parens Episcopus debet non timeri Hier. ad Theophilum Sep. M. H hauing formerly expostulated with vs our supposed impietie in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon in England proceeds in the next place to lay downe our madnesse in chusing a substantiall Babylon in Amsterdam and if it be so found by due trial as he suggesteth it is hard to say whether our impiety or madnes be the greater Sep. Belike M. H. thinkes we gather churches here by towne-rowes as they doe in England and that all within the parish procession are of the same Church Wherefore else tels hee vs of Iewes Arrians and Anabaptists with whom we haue nothing common but the streetes and market-place It i● the condition of the Church to liue in the world and to haue ciuill society with the men of this world 1. Cor. 5. 10. Ioh. 17. 13. But what is this to that spirituall communion of the saints in the fellowshippe of the Gospell wherin they are separated and sanctified from the world vnto the Lord Ioh 17. 16. 1. Cor. 1. 2. Cor. 6. 17. 18. Separation from the world how required Ioh. 17. 16. 1. Cor. 1. 2. 1. Cor. 3. 3. Sep. We indeed haue much wickednes in the Citie where we liue you in the Church ●ut in earnest doe you imagine we account the Kingdome of England Babylon or the citie of Amsterdam Syon It is the Church of England or state Ecclesiasticall which we account Babylon and from which we withdraw in spirituall communion ●ut for the common-wealth and Kingdome as we honor it aboue all the states in the world so wold we thankfully embrace the meanest corner in it at the extreamest conditions of any people in the Kingdome Cassand de Offic boni viri Bellar. de Laicis Euseb. in vita Const. Fr. Iohns Articles ag the Fr● and Dutch Churches Bar. ag Gyss Counrtepoys Sep. The hellish impieties in the citie of Amsterdam doe no more preiudice our heauenly communion in the Church of Christ then the frogs lyce flyes moraine and other plagues ouerspreading Egypt did the Israelites when Goshen the portion of their inheritance was free Exod 8. 19. nor then the deluge wherewith the whole world was couered did Noah when he and his family were safe in the Arke Gen. 7. nor then sathans throne did the Church of Pergamus being established in the same citie with it Re● 2. 12 13. Sep. It is 〈◊〉 will of God and of Christ that his Church should abide in the world and conuerse with it in the affaires therof which are common to both But it is the Apostasie of Antichrist to haue communion with the vvorld in the holy things of God which are the peculiars of the Church and cannot without great sacriledge be so prostituted and prophaned Duobus mod● non te ma●ulat malus vid●licet si non consentis si redarg●is d. 23. q. 4. a malis Sep. The ayre of the Gospell which you draw in is nothing so free and cleare as you make shevv it is only because you are vsed to it that makes you so iudge 1. Canons Sep. The thicke smoake of your Canons especially of such as are planted against the Kingdome of Christ the visible Church and the administration of it do both obscure and poyson the ayre which you all draw in and wherein you breath 2. Sinne vncensured Sep. The plaguy-spirituall-leprosie of sinne rising vp in the foreheads of so many thousands in the Church vnshut vp vncouered infects all both persons and things amongst you Leu. 13. 45. 46. 47. 2. cor 6 17. Certe nullius crimen maculat nescientem Aug. Ep. 48. 1. Reg. 19. 18. 3. Heirarchy Sep. The blasting Hierarchie suffers no good thing to grow or prosper but withers all both budde and branch 4. Seruice-booke Sep. The daily sacrifice of the seruice-booke which in stead of spirituall prayer sweete as incense you offer vp morning and

be iudge So doe we value your detestation as you his It were well for you if you eschued these enormities lesse and hell more Your sinfull subiection to these vnchristian humours will proue more fearefull then to our Antichristian enormities SECTION XXII The Church of England is the Spouse of Christ. SHE may be your Mother you say and not the Lords Wife It is a good Mother that hath Children and no husband Why did you not call her plaine whore Your old Embleme is As is the Mother so is the Daughter These are the modest circumlocutions of a good sonne who cares not to proue himselfe a bastard that his mother may bee mark't for an Harlot Be you a true Lo-ammi but England shall neuer I hope proue an Apostate Israel We haue no Calues in our Dan and Bethel none of Iero●oams Idolatry VVee haue still called God Ishi and neuer burnt incense to Baalim It is your sinagogue that hath fallen away from vs as Israel from Iuda But these children were bidden to plead Gods command shields them from the note of vngracious Abraham must sacrifice his sonne and this sonne must condemne his Mother shew vs either our equall desert or your equall warrant VVhere hath God proclamed our Church not his By whose hand hath he published her diuorce You haue shamed her wombe not she her bed not God her demeanure Your tongues are your owne who can forbid you VVe know you will plead and excuse and censure and defend till all the world be weary we may pray with Hierome to this sense that of the Psalmist Increpa Domine bestias calami yet wee see your pens tongues and presses busie and violent I will not apply to you that which Augustine of his Donatists Though truth compell you to be dumbe yet iniquitie will not suffer you to be silent But if you write whole Marts and worlds of volumes you shall neuer be able either to iustifie your innocence or excuse your fault In the meane time the noyse of your contentions is so great that your truth cannot bee heard Learned Iunius and our learnedst Diuines and neighbour Churches haue oft heard your clamors neuer your truth So little haue you of this and so much of the other that we are ready to wish as he of old either our selues deafe or you dumb SECTION XXIII How the Church of England hath separated from Babylon THe spirit of your Proto-Martyr would hardly haue digested this Title of Babylon Mother of Gods people a murdering Step-mother rather She cannot be a Mother of Chil●ren to God and no Church of God Notwithstanding Gods people would he say may be in her not of her So Babylon bore them not but Sion in Babylon But I feare not your excesse of charity You fly to your Doctors challenge and aske what we say against you for vs which Rome wil not say for her selfe against vs Will you iustifie this plea of Rome or not If you will why doe you reuile her If you will not why doe you obiect it Heare then what we say both to you and them our enemies both and yet the enemies of our enemies First we disclaime and defie your Pedigree and theirs The Church of Rome was neuer our Mothers Mother Our Christian faith came not from the seuen-hilles Neither was deriued either from Augustine the Monke or Pope Gregory Britanny had a worthy Church before either of them look't into the world It is true that the ancient Roman Church was Sister to ours here was neare kindred no dependance And not more consanguinitie then while she continued faithfull Christian loue Now she is gone a whoring her chast Sister iustly spitteth at her yet euen still if you distinguish as your learned Antagonist hath taught you betwixt the Church and Papacy Shee acknowledges her Sisterhood though she refraines her cōuersation as she hath many slauish and factious abettors of her knowne and grosse errors to whom we deny this title affirming them the body whereof Antichrist is the head the great whore and mother of abhominations so againe how many thousands hath shee which retayning the foundation according to their knowledge as our learned Whitakers had wont to say of Bernard follow Absolom with a simple heart all which to reiect from Gods Church were no better thē presumptuous cruelty It were well for you before God the world if you could as easiely wash your hands of vn-naturall impiety and trecherousnesse as we of bastardy vniust sequestration There can be no bastardy where was neuer any motherhood wee were nephews to that Church neuer sons vnlesse as Rome was the Mother citie of the world so by humane institution we suffered our selues to bee ranged vnder her Patriarchall authority as being the most famous Church of the West a matter of courtesie and pretended Order no necessity no spirituall obligation As for our sequestration your mouth and theirs may be stopt with this answer As all corrupted Churches so some things the Church of Rome still holds aright a true God in three persons true Scriptures though with addition a true Christ though mangled with foule and erroneous consequences true Baptisme though shamefully deformed with rotten traditions many other vndenyable truths of God some other things and too many her wicked Apostasie hath deuised and maintained abhominably amisse the body of her Antichristianisme grosse errours and by iust sequel heresies their Popes supremacy infallibility illimitation transubstantiation idolatrous and superstitious worshippe and a thousand other of this branne In regard of all these latter we professe to the world a iust and auncient separation from this false faith and deuotion of the Romish Church which neither you will say nor they shall euer proue faulty yea rather they haue in all these separated from vs who stil irrefragably professe to hold with the auncient from whom they are departed In regard of the other we are stil with them holding and embracing with them what they holde with Christ neither will you I thinke euer prooue that in these we should differ As for our communion they haue separated vs by their proude and foolish excommunications if they had not wee would iustly haue begunne from their Tyranny and Antichristianisme from their miserable Idolatrie but as for the bodie of their poore seduced Christians which remaine amongst them vpon the true foundation as doubtlesse there are thousands of them which laugh at their Pardons Miracles Superstitions and their trust in merites reposing only vpon Christ we adhere to them in loue and pitty and haue testified our affection by our blood ready vpon any iust call to doe it more neither would feare to ioyne with them in any true seruice of our common God But the full discourse of this point that honourable and learned plesses hath so forstalled that whatsoeuer 〈◊〉 say would seeme but borrowed Vnto his rich Treatise I referre my Reader for full satisfaction