Selected quad for the lemma: england_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	call_v	church_n	people_n	2,632	5	4.8203	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A97164	A publike conference betwixt the six Presbyterian ministers, and some Independent commanders: held at Oxford, on Thursday Novemb. 12. 1646.	Waring, Robert, 1614-1658.	1646 (1646)	Wing W868; Thomason E363_4; ESTC R201228	6,431	17

Here a double weakenesse on the other part still to insist and urge their owne Paper as if they were not they who have brought in Extempore Effusions throughout the whole service of God and allow unpremeditated Preaching and praying such as the Lay might imitate and now here challenge but here allow onely set and premeditated Disputes I was again asham'd to see tearms impos'd to their adversaries advantage and not so pertinent to their doubt which while the Scruple-Masters urge their owne Propositions is still hinted to be Whether it were lawfull for them who were no Ministers to lay out Scripture in publike and to undoe Chapters Whether it were lawfull for the Guifted Christians or whether it were more lawfull for the esteemed Ministers The Chaire-man riseth up undertakes the Cause but Mediums comming not readily againe the Papers call'd in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Why we come hither to have our Doubts resolv'd 't is strange you should tell better then our selves what our doubts are The Question was hinted on this occasion viz. your biting and unbrotherly railing against this way of God in building up one another The Chair-man riseth up againe and finding it reducible to one of his Propositions offers againe at the Question and reads his 5. Proposition with the Proofes they admitted no reading Divines nor indirect proofes Sol. Prove this First the Negative That 't is not lawfull for the Guifted Christians Secondly the Affirmacive That the esteemed Ministers of the Church of England are lawfully called by Iesus Christ to Preach The Negative first endeavoured by the Chaire-man with a most indirect and confus'd proofe as he mannag'd it from the names and Titles of Pastor Steward Embassadour c. and that confirm'd by Eph. 4.11 Christ gave some Apostles Evangelists Prophets Teachers therefore not all This was urg'd somewhat more volubly by Timocles but with no stricter inference To this the onely proofe for the Negative was answered severally Th●● the Text was not exclusive There were othe●s mentioned in other places of Scripture given likewise as Helps and Governments said the Deputy-Governour That the Inference could not extend to the Negative Christ gave some Pastors therefore none other might feed the Flock That their Preaching did not inferre that there were not some Ministers beside them that they did not preach with the Titles Officially but Edifyingly They did not Preach but Teach and that Christ gave some Apostles Prophets Pastors c. ex abundanti to perfect the Saints that the syllogisme might be return'd on them Christ gave some Apostles Evangelists Prophets c. but they were not that some Evangelists or Prophets therefore they were not to Preach Now ex abundanti they urge on the contrary that it is not onely not unlawfull as yet it appear'd by all they could say against it but our duty to improve our Guifts to exhort admonish edify one another by all the Texts sounding that way First from the Context alleadg'd against them Eph. 4.16 That the Members mutually grow up and make ncrease of the body unto the edifying of it selfe in love That the manifestation of the spirit is given to every one to profit withall that they are to administer the Grace they have receiv'd as good Stewards that 1. Cor. 14. every one was to prophecy that is to speake to edification exhortation consolation that there were many preach'd Act. 8. that were no Evangelists Apostles Prophets c. and particularly Apollo Act. 18.28 taught in the Synagogues that Jesus was the Messias and yet no call'd Minister of the Gospell it being not probable that he should be chosen by the Apostles to the Ministry who yet knew nothing but the Baptisme of John and was to be instructed by Priscilla and Aquilla his Wife You already guesse the Answer 't was extraordinary They prove it ordinary since that is ordinary which was common to all in the Church as to prophesie 1 Cor. 14. Belonged to every one This being all then alleadg'd against the unlawfulnesse and overborne with a greater number of Texts that seem'd not onely to prove but injoyn it as a duty They Recollect all the Ob's and Sol's and submit the Result to the judgement of the Spirituall For the Affirmative now they urge them to prove their owne Calling lawfull and according to the appointment of Christ and to justifie their owne Ministers of the Church of England since they could not so easily disprove as they did reprove the Lay Divines Timocles stands up They which are qualified which are approved which are called according to the mind of Christ and set apart to the Gospel are Ministers lawfully called according to the mind of Christ But some Ministers of the Church of England are qualifi'd c. They urg'd against All and we expected hee should not at first have quitted our Church But his proofe he stretch'd but to some What need all this Provo but one they are call'd by Christ we require no more No he claims the priviledge of Logick to take his owne choice and Order a new Priviledge as any the Subject now assumes First Qualifi'd according to the mind of Christ here the 1. Tim. 3. Tit. 1. are read for one Proposition but some are thus qualifi'd All All 't is enough if some This deny'd None yes some thus Qualifi'd Reynolds Harris Wilkinson Upriseth Yerbery Not qualifi'd to the Text because strikers because they destroy the Communion of Saints and because they inflict Temporall punishments for Spirituall Weakenesses They destroy the Communion of Saints because they set up Parish Churches Since Christ bid his Apostles goe and Teach no standing Ministers of Christs ord●ining To this provok'd with zeale R. Argues in stead of Answering They who have justifying faith and charity according to the Gospell destroy not the Communion of Saints But some Ministers of the Church of England meaning himselfe and those mith him The Seeker grants not that neither For they who have not the Spirit equall to the Apostles even before they had the Guifts of the Spirit who then could not beare the saying of Christ and therefore far from Faith They that have not at all the guifts of the Spirit there hee reads them Prophecying Tongues Miracles asks which they challenge could not pretend to Faith or Charity according to the Gospell 'T is againe answer'd Guifts extraordinary and Gifts of the Spirit either donum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This caus'd an out-cry they came to be edifi'd and yet they found the Guift of Tongues they denyed To the Question againe Not strikers Because Inflicters of Temporall punishment for Spirituall Weakenesses because the Assembly approves of the Act of Parliament Here they call him back to the question 't is safer th●n Answering Not qualifi'd Because covetous because th●y take Tythes they that take others goods and returne nothing of value for it are Covetous Make the syllogisme out They that take others goods c. Where 's your Minor

Timocles They that take others Goods You make the Minor What 's this to the lawfull Calling to the Question prove your Calling Timocles The next is they that are approv'd pray ye let it be they that are call d. No in order They are approv'd that are qualifi'd to the mind of Christ This wee heard before prove your Calling Calling Why thus They that are approv'd according to the mind of Christ are called according to the mind of Christ but some Ministers of our Church ●●ey are ap●●●ved vvho are ●●●lified as be●●●● c. Col. Idem per Idem Sir pardon me I know not your name Your Argument is this We say you are not lawfull Ministers in the Church of England call●d by the mind of Christ you reply We are and we are and therefore we are Is not this a Circle I confesse it is but you put me to it How then doe you prove your Calling lawfull W. Why is there not a Presbytery now to ordaine Ministers Timocles your Calling is lawfull that is by the appointment of the Magistrate But who call'd that Presbytery who call'd you so fearefull were they here to defend their owne Calling lest they should seem to defend their owne Church or name Bishops that to wave the Answer R. stands up and informes them what was a lawfull Calling To a lawfull calling is requir'd in the persons call d the qualifications mentioned Piety and Parts in the calling the Inward and Outward Call the Outward calling double in a setled Church to be by the Ministers the Presbytery in an unsetled Church as in times of Reformation the extraordinary or more properly the universall way is by the whole Church for to speake my sense and judgment the ultimate and last Authority is resolv'd into the body of the whole Church Col. What doe you meane by Church All the faithfull all the Christian People What by the Church of England All the Christian People of this Nation or Kingdome call it what you will Col. this then if I mistake not is the substance of your Speech that the persons call'd are to be qualifi'd with sanctity and knowledge We contend for none but who are qualifi d and guifted that the power of Calling those persons resides in the whole Church None could plead better the Independents part They require no more but the power of making their Officers Thus have they at last dealt ingenuously and being not able to maintaine by their new fundamentals they yeelded up the Question Either R. is very subtill and by this state of the Question seekes to compound with the Independents or else very simple and hath unawares betray'd himselfe with the Presbyterians It is either Reynolds the Fox or Reynolds the Goose They need no Opponents in this Question every one differing and opposing the other W. stating the power of calling Ministers in the Presbyterie winnes the Title of Presbyterian from them all Timocles concluding the same power that makes Church-Wardens and Constables to appoint and call Ministers comes of an Erastian R. To be receiv'd into the Congregation of the Independents 'T was now almost 9. of the clock some complain'd of their heads some of their Age another of the Crowd But a more zealous Brother cries out Paul teach'd till midnight and it was the time for their new lights to be held out Mr. Harris is desir d to close all and what he could not by dispute to determine and end the difference by prayer and their Requests are now his best Call see the power of Naturall Logick that hath prov'd Those that have no Calling to be lawfull Preachers and those that have a Calling to be no Preachers at all Postscript THe six Presbyterian Divines have beene much worsted by the Independent Commanders in a late publike Disputation who asserted That they had no Commission from God to be Ministers in the presence of two or three hundred Schollars and others which much blanked those Worthies who were sent thither to reforme that University and to resolve all Quaeries Doubts and Scruples of Conscience Whereupon the Presbyterians not meeting as was expected upon the Thursday following Nov. 19. they were conceived utterly to wave any more Conscience-resolving Disputes and were hereby concluded from their silence and tergiversation to be no better then Theeves and Robbers so that now these Commander wanting an enemy from these foyled Presbyterians have adventured to challenge that late most famous Vniversity to prove their Calling from Christ FINIS