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B12207 The copy of a letter sent from an English gentleman, lately become a Catholike beyond the seas, to his Protestant friend in England in answere to some points, wherin his opinion was required, concerning the present busines of the Palatinate, & marriage with Spayne : and also declaring his reasons for the change of his religion. Crynes, N. 1622 (1622) STC 5742.7; ESTC S1070 15,353 106

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calumnies and slaunders and that they hold them not at all But it is a matter of state for English Ministers to make Catholikes and Catholike religion odious to the people matter of state I meane for themselues because their owne estate depends vpon their Protestant Religion that Religion being their trade they liue by But as touching the Masse and such points as they doe hould I haue had such proofes and reasons shewed me that I do not now maruell that the greatest and most potent part of Christendome still remayneth in that Religion and that diuers in France Germany and the Netherlandes aswell as in England do forsake Protestancy and other late and new risen opinions and returne vnto this ancient and vniuersall fayth of the Christian world Me thinkes I now heare you aske me where the Masse is found in Scripture But to this I may aske you all the Protestants in the world where they can shew me out of the Scripture after what manner the Apostles themselues did celebrate this Sacrament Christ instituted it at night and after supper in the same paued Parlour at the same table whereat he had supped occasioned thereunto by reason of the lytle tyme he had being from thence to goe into the garden of Gethsemani to make his prayers and preparation to his passiō That the Apostles celebrated also in paued Parlours at supping tables at night after they had supped and not in the morning and being fasting that they had no women present at it seeing Christ had none no not his own Mother notwithstāding her great worthynes In what manner they tooke the bread and blessed it what speeches action or ceremony heerin was vsed whether they vsed the same hymne that was sayd before Christ his rising vp frō the table what hymne that was or what other prayers hymns or by what speeches or ceremonies they shewed our Lords death where can they deliuer vs notice of all this Was there no forme or order set downe and vsed by the Apostles left by them vnto succeeding Christians to follow Or was it left so raw and vnordered that they knew not of any forme or manner of celebration thereof at all Who can imagine the Apostles to haue byn so carelesse and improuident S. Paul telleth vs the contrary when hauing spoken of Christ his institution of this Sacrament he promiseth to set the rest thereunto belonging in order at his comming vnto those to whome he wrote of the same When the Hussites began their pretended reformation of Religion according as they sayd to the tyme of the Apostles they tooke away no Altars out of Churches but left them standing and sayd Masse at them as yet they continue to do When Luther an hundreth yeares after this began his pretended Reformation which he also sayd was according the the tyme of the Apostles he tooke away no Altars neyther but celebrated at them as do those of his sect in Germany at this day calling the Sacrament thereon celebrated by no other name then the Sacrament of the Altar But the first that began to celebrate vpon House-tables were the Anabaptists who began some yeares after Luther And after these came the Caluinists or disciples of Caluin whose doctrine we in England for the most part do follow and these brake downe the Altars in Churches brought house-tables and set them in their places and theron celebrated their Communion affirming this be a reformation according to the tyme of the Apostles and primitiue Church of Christ Heere falleth now to be considered whether the first Christians that had the vse of Churches had in their Churches Altars or House-tables If they vsed first tables then the question is when by what order and vpon what occasion were these tables caryed out Altars builded in their steeds as also what question or dispute hapned about this alteration or what memory or notice is there left vnto the world of it in any Ecclesiastical Annals or other History When Altars were by Caluinists brokē down in Churches cōmunion-tables set in their places all the world tooke notice thereof and euen as much notice must there also haue byn taken if at the first House-tables had bin vsed in Churches that afterward they had byn taken out and Altars there erected Franciscus Aluares who liued six yeares in Aethiopia among the Abissines writeth that their Ecclesiasticall Annales doe testify that they had a Church built in their Countrey to the honour of Christ within ten yeares of his Ascension which Church there yet remayneth and beareth the name as alwayes it hath done of The Church of our Lady of mount Sion and the reason why it is so called is because the stone whereof the Altar was builded was brought thither from Mount Sion Such testimony of the auncient vse of Altars in Churches is not only found among these so auncient Christians but among all other ancient Christians of the world besydes those of the Church of Rome as among those of the Greeke Church those of Cangranor and Malabar in the east Indies that were conuerted by S. Thomas the Apostle and by all other ancient Christians of the world albeit they depend not vpon the Church of Rome And further can I tell you that I haue seene a discourse which as yet is not printed wherin is cleerly manifestly shewed by most great and good arguments that in all those Countreyes wherein the Apostles themselues preached and planted the Christian fayth they did leaue behind them the Masse which hath from their tyme remayned among those Christians and their successours vnto this day As touching the fayth and beliefe of the Reall presence of Christ in the sayd Sacrament it neuer appeared that euer any one mā in the Greeke Church did deny it and in this fayth and belieue all the other most ancient and remote Christians of the world are most confident seing they haue had it ab initio and that it is deryued from the very mouth of Christ That Christ sayd at his last supper taking bread and blessing it This is my body no man can deny That it is his body but only Anabaptistes and Caluinists two late risen Sects who doe deny it if they speake truly then is not Christ to be belieued if they say he meant not as he sayd they make him a double dealer but if he meant not as he sayd then are they to shew where it standeth written in Gods word that he meant it not and not meaning it where it is then written how he would haue his words vnderstood But who shall shew vs this Or where or when shall we find it That Christ was able when he tooke bread blessed it and sayd it was his body to make it so to be who can make doubt that doubteth him not to be Christ and consequently God and why is he not as well able to doe this as to doe with the same his owne naturall body sundry other miracles aboue the
primitiue Church of Christ This vpon their meere saying so I confidently belieued without euer making doubt thereof or further enquiry for any proofe But coming into Germany whither my iourney was as you know intended for the seruice of the Prince Palatine who we then called King of Bohemia and there beholding the Lutheran preachers to stand swaggering in their pulpits with their mouthes as full of Scripture as any of our Pulpit-mens in England might possibly be and there to see them so to contemne scorne deride our English preachers pretension of restoring Apostolicall religion as the most ridiculous iest in the world I stood not a little amazed at the matter Trauailing from Germany into Bohemia there did I heare the Hussite-preachers as I had heard the Lutherans before condemne our doctrine of England laugh and scof at our preachers pretension of primitiue truth as a iest only to make sport withall not conteyning nor carying therewith so much as any shew of truth which to my consideration proued no iest at all Lighting after this in the company of Anabaptists with which albeit England be little acquainted yet in these parts they will also be some body as wel as the rest seing they hold themselues to be as flush in Scripture as the proudest of their Competitors they protested by yea and by nay that our Protestant Religion of England was not consonant but contrary to the truth of the Ghospell of the Lord. What might I thinke of the great boast which our Pulpit-masters in England make of the light of their Ghospell who seeme where they are there alone to be the only men at it in the world whē heere in Germany I heard the Lutheran Preachers whose Patriarke Martin Luther we in England so much cōmend extoll the light of their owne Ghospell aboue the brightnes of the Sunne make our Ghospell of England more dimmer then a lanterne How might I maruell thinke you when I heard the Hussite-preachers so much to scorne our Gods Word of England as if it were but the Word of Robin-hood And what might I imagine when the Anabaptistes that speake nothing but Scripture durst challenge all our Rabins at no other weapon but at the only Word will alwayes be ready to continue the combat as long as they haue fingers to turne ouer leaues in the Bible But what labyrinth may you thinke me to haue lighted in why in my trauails I hapned into an Inne where I had about myne eares all these at once where I found my selfe enuyroned about with different Wordes of God different Lights of the Ghospel where when I went about to defend our Ghospell of England I had Bibles so fast drawne out vpon me that I knew not which way to turne me but was fayne to stand as an Owle among other birdes and with much impatience patiently heare our Gods Word of England made the veriest hotch-potch Olla-podrida of the world They became so pleasant and sportfull with me as to aske me whether God had banished his truest Religion into an I le and hembd it about with the sea to the end it shold dwell no where but there intending thereby that our Religion of England both in fayth and in forme was different from all other Religions that now are extant which when I would haue gaynsayed they strayghtwayes came vpon me with Temporall and Feminine Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction and with pageants of little Popes as though they had their instructions from Puritans and Brownists Lord how hartily did I wish that but some one of our great Pulpit-thunderers had byn heere that can talke so brauely in England before those that belieue in him to haue seene how these different kinds of Scripture-followes would haue Bible-bastonaded him and put him downe like a poore Snake for verily there did neuer squirrell skip more nimbly from one bowgh vnto another in a tree then do these fellowes from one text to another in the old and new Testament Of all which when I had well considered there was nothing wherat I more stood amazed then at my owne ignorance whylst I was in England because I did not apprehend any opposition to any purpose to be made against the Religion there allowed then that which was made agaynst it by those of the Church of Rome and because our Preachers could smoothly dissemble these other opposites and but little meddle with them crying Crucifige lowdest of all agaynst those of the Church of Rome But finding now a farre other matter to wit these seuerall sects so full of Scripture as none in England could be fuller and these so contemptibly to despise scorne hold most ridiculous our English protestant religion as a very mock-religion and in most serious asseueration of their soules to declare it to be the damnation of al their soules that follow it what might I now imagine Finding them also to haue asmuch sense and vnderstanding as great acquaintance as farre to haue trauayled in the Word and as ready in their language to speake defend their causes as any in Englād how Text-fast soeuer he be is able to do and in fine to protest with all zeale vehemency of spirit his resolution for the offering of his body to the torments and paynes of death and his soule to the sentence of saluation or damnation thereon what could I find any of our professing people in England to say more and what reason had I now to reiect these not to heare them speake as well as I had I heard our Pulpit-people in England vnlesse it should only haue byn for their not being Englishmen which were too poore a reason to be yielded vnto All this also considered what I pray you might I thinke whether I were now in a perplexity or no I leaue your selfe to iudge what reason did there now remayne to oblige me vnto our English Protestant Religion other then because it was the Religion of England and whether the following therof because it so was could be a sufficient warrant for the proofe of it to be true Religion and consequently for the saluation of my soule lying dying therin Whylst I stood in this amazement hearing the Hussites most resolute in mayntayning the Reall Presence of Christ in the Sacrament and the Lutherans also the former by transubstantiation the later by consubstantiation yet eyther affirming no signe but the very same body that was borne of the Blessed Virgin Mary to be there I was by this meanes brought to looke backe vnto the Christian world of former ages and to thinke with my selfe that if so be the ancient Church of Rome from which also these new congregations had deryued their Christianity was in processe of tyme become alienated from her first purity by hauing as these pretend nourished and entertayned many corruptions and that God would vouchsafe to benefit the world with a restauration or reformation of Religion according to her first purity that it was not then like
course of nature When he said that it was as easy for a camell to goe through the eye of a needle as for a rich man to enter into the Kingdome of heauen whereupon his disciples asked him who could then be saued he answered that with God all thinges were possible If then it be possible for a Camel or for a cable-rope to go through the eye of a needle it is possible for the body of Christ to be in the Sacrament and the more possible when he that is God himselfe hath sayd it When he had sayd that with God all thinges were possible the Apostles were silent and belieued it for they replyed not to the cōtrary or by asking how it might be So belieued they him also when taking the bread at his last supper and blessing it he said it was his body els had they also asked him as they did of the Camels going through the eye of the needle how it was possible Manifest also it is that all the ancient Christians of the world besides those of the Church of Rome haue euē from the originall of their Christianity belieued this If now Anabaptists and Caluinists that are but risen vp in our dayes must be belieued in the deniall thereof not only agaynst their precedent competitours in Reformation Husse and Luther but agaynst the Church of Rome the Church of Greece and all other ancient Christians resyding in the farre and remote partes of Asia and Africa who can belieue when he hath well reflected vpon these thinges and aboue all vpon the foundation of this fayth which standeth vpon the very wordes of Christ his owne mouth and from no where els is deriued that he can heerin be deceaued Seeing Christ in no iustice or equity can condemne any man of misbeliefe for belieuing that which himselfe telleth him so to be yea albeit it were not so which cannot be seeing himselfe is all truth and that vnto him being also God there is nothing impossible and seeing also that none of his Apostles did euer after declare vnto the world that he meant not as he sayd that notwithstanding he speake those wordes it was but the figure or signe of his body and not his very body indeed as Caluinists Anabaptists now more then fifteene hundred yeares after do teach vs. I am no Deuine as you know yet could I not heere conteyne within the compas of a Letter if I should enlarge my selfe with so much more as I could say concerning this matter and with proofes of Scriptures Fathers and the successiue vniuersall fayth and practise of Chtistians throughout the world euer since the tyme of Christ This haue I done to let you see whether I had reason or no comming to so much knowledge and vnderstanding of differences among so many late pretenders of reformation of Religion truly to vnderstand what the Catholike religion holdeth and professeth indeed to remayne still a protestant seeing if so I had done it must haue byn for fashions sake only and to runne in cry among the rest as some doe that will know no better and others that can discerne no better because they come not where may they or are idiots and want capacity to apprehend it Iudge now I pray you hauing well considered of the premisses whether there appeareth reason for my excuse or not and whether Protestants may haue reason to be so picquant and hatefull vnto Catholikes as they are and not quietly to let them liue among them enioy their Ciuill conuersation seeing Catholikes are no intruders vpon protestants or bringers in of any nouelties among them but the imbracers only of that fayth from which Protestants are falne and all the rest of their competitors in pretending discordant reformations and wherein vnto this day the maiesty of Christendome in fight of all the world yet remayneth I meane the greater and the better part therof Wheras Caluinisme for by that Name our Protestant Religion of England passeth throughout all Christendome among all Religions except themselues being but new begon is already splitted and deuided into foure partes within it selfe to wit Protestants Puritans Brownistes and Arminians declining to decay and chiefly supported by rebellion Be not offended with me I beseech you I only speake this in regard of truth because the truth is so as the whole world can heerin beare me witnes and not because I would in speaking thus go about to vexe you And to let you see my indifferency in speaking as vnpartially of the rest you shall please also to vnderstand That the Hussytes and the others want not their diuisiōs among them aswel as ours for there are the old and the new Hussytes the rigide and the soft or myld Lutherans And the Anabaptists being fullest of all the others of Scriptures are also fullest of all of diuisions for I haue counted among them fifteene seuerall sorts my selfe and how many more there are I know not But as sor the Hussytes and the Lutherans I haue exceedingly meruayled at the cogging of M. Fox our English Martyrologian and of our Preachers in England who for their Ghospells pouerty haue so much extold Iohn Husse for a blessed martyr and Martin Luther for a blessed confessour the one disliking the doctrine of the other and both being contrary vnto theirs and to dissemble and hyde from the knowledge of their audience what the Hussytes and the Lutherans do preach and write of them and how farre they are from fynding any Ghospell affinity between them but contemne scorne their society to the full and haue no other esteeme of them then of a company of cocks crowing on their owne dunghills In Conclusion I must say vnto you that if it please God the Match with Spayne do succeed I trust it will proue to the great good tranquillity of our countrey and will make England continually participant of the wealth of Spayne and the Countreys thereon depending which seeing the rebellious Hollanders cannot enioy they enuy that our Nation should If the Match with Spaine succeed not yet seeing Englishmen cannot liue pen'd in within the compasse of their countrey as those of China between the sea and a huge wall but must trauayle and traffique abroad in so many flourishing Countreyes and places of Christendome as are Catholike they must needes be hatefull and odious to those Nations if it be knowne vnto them that they doe hate and persecute Catholikes at home they being members with them of one same body to wit of one same Catholike fayth and Church which is sole and entiere and consisteth not in splitted partes and diuisions and hath lasted and continued in the world when the world was vnacquainted with Protestants and will remayne in it when Protestants may happen to returne agayne to inuisibility from whence they pretend with as much reason to be assured as either Hussytes Lutherans or Anabaptistes may do the like and may also fynd as good allowance to be belieued without being laughed at as any of these how late or sooner before they crept out of the like obscurity Heere will I make an end of this letter which I leaue vnto your good consideration and myselfe in all the dutyes of affection at your commaund From the place of my aboad this 25. of Iuly 1622. You know the Hand the louing Hart of the VVriter AFTER I had ended this letter there came vnto my handes a few verses from a friend of myne which because they somwhat concerne the purpose wherof I haue spoken I heere send you also Vpon the hopefull Match betweene Prince Charles his Highnes of Wales and the Princesse Mary Infant of Spayne ON fames report Hope hath fixt expectation That in good time the great match may succeed Wherof the world now stands in admiration And it estemeth as a heauenly deed For earths repose Because a peacefull King Is now so great an Actor in the thing And his great Highnes doth his worth discouer And makes his Princely honour higher fam'd By choosing such a Phenix for his louer As to whose selfe no equall can be nam'd Since none there is on earth of Adams race That for all worths may chalenge better place N. Crynes Vnto her Greatnes witnes giues the Sunne Tasked no houre to shine at any hand As he his course about the Globe doth runne But on some part of her late Fathers land An homage which he neuer did before To any Prince nor like to do no more And for her feature such it doth appeare That Rubens the Apelles of our dayes Vnable to approach this beauty neere Dares not attempt to paint his owne disprayse But of this worke of Nature wondring standes And lets his pensill fall from out his hands As for her Vertues I referre their prayse Vnto the Heauens who best know how to do it Knowing I cannot from the low earth rayse Their altitude so high as longs vnto it Nor yet how to begin or to intend A worke wherin I see not any end FINIS